Public Relations in the Age of Insularity

Trust used to flow upward. To experts, institutions, and authority. 

Then it shifted to “people like me.” 

Now even that circle is tightening. 

The 2026 Edelman Trust Barometer reveals a growing insularity: smaller tribes, hardened perspectives, and a widening mass-class divide driven by whether people believe the system works for them. 

Persuasion is shifting to trust brokerage, and what communicators, leaders, and businesses can do when trust itself has become the battleground.

Listen For

3:10 Skip the opening story and go right to the interview with Tim Weber

3:47 What does it mean that we’ve moved from echo chambers to “turtle shells”

7:21 Is polarization economic, cultural, technological—or all three?

12:35 How can companies blunt fear and become true trust brokers?

20:13 Will AI reinforce our biases and deepen our personal echo chambers?

Guest: Tim Weber, Managing Director & EMEA Head of Editorial, Edelman

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2026 Edelman Trust Barometer

Doug

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Farzana

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Transcript

Lady Emily (00:01):
If you're of a certain age, there was a Pink Floyd record from 1979 that people instantly recognised and bonded with The Wall. Today, our walls aren't concrete. They're personal, and they're built from fear feeds and tribe.

Doug Downs (00:25):
In 1979, Pink Floyd built a wall not out of stone, out of fear, out of humiliation, out of small wounds that stacked up over time. Brick by brick, another brick in the wall wasn't about school, it was about retreat, about what happens when the world feels hostile and you decide it's safer to seal yourself off, you shut the door, you pull the curtain, you stop listening. It feels strong, and it feels safe. It isn't. 10 years later, a real wall fell.

Ronald Reagan (01:01):
Mr. Gorbachev tore down this wall

Doug Downs (01:10):
In Berlin. Strangers climbed concrete. They danced on it. They chipped pieces away with hammers. They hugged people. They'd been taught to distrust. They shouted what was in their heart. Leave the kids alone. The wall had divided a city when it cracked, people didn't retreat. They moved toward each other. Concrete came down because people decided it should. But the walls we build today aren't made of concrete. They're built from feeds, from narratives that tell us the other side is dangerous. We don't live in echo chambers anymore. We live in shells hardened personal, comfortable. It feels strong. It feels safe. It isn't. The 2026 Edelman Trust Barometer shows we as individuals are collapsing into our personal tribal shells. And the circle we trust keeps shrinking to people who think just like us today on stories and strategies as famous a lyric as ever there was. All in all, you're just another brick in the wall. My name is Doug Downs,

Farzana Baduel (02:35):
And my name is Farzana Baduel. And our guest this week is Tim Weber joining us all the way from Brussels. Hi Tim.

Tim Weber (02:41):
Hello. Hi. Nice to speak to you.

Farzana Baduel (02:43):
So Tim, how are things in Brussels?

Tim Weber (02:46):
Very good, thank you very much. Thanks for having me.

Farzana Baduel (02:49):
Brilliant. Now Tim, you are the managing director and you are the Europe, Middle East Africa head of editorial at Edelman. And you lead regional content strategy and storytelling across a global clientele, previously a journalist and an editor at the BBC. And you are widely regarded as a content and technology expert in the PR space.

Doug Downs (03:10):
Thank you very much. I hope so. Well, we'll find out, won't we? Tim, the 2025 Edelman Trust Barometer shows that the most influential voice has long been someone just like me. And I can't tell you how many times I've used that in my internal and external conversations with clients and colleagues, but now that just like me thing, that circle is, it's shrinking. We're moving from what you call echo chambers to what I love how you describe as turtle shells. What does that actually mean and how is this different now from where we've been before?

Tim Weber (03:47):
So what I think we are seeing is a tightening of who we trust over the past three or four years. It started out with some really strong polarisation three years ago. It started then, or it continued last year with people feeling this deep sense of grievance. Somebody wasn't helping them, and it was the people around them. And now we've moved to what one could call insularity, this turtle shell. And what we see with that in the trust barometer is that while previously people were really strongly convinced that others were wrong, now they will only listen to people who are exactly like them. So we've moved from a kind of we in society to a me. It's only me. That's the only thing that matters. And that is really dangerous for society. Of course, if there is zero consensus here, if we don't even listen to the same facts, the same information.
(04:51):
We live in parallel worlds. And that is a communication problem for companies, not just about what they say and how they talk about their product, but how they're being perceived. And any misstep or any misunderstanding will then result in serious problems. But it also means something significant for a company, how you operate. To use the phrase employee engagement, we now are in a situation where a significant number of people will say, if I get a new line manager and he doesn't think the same as me, he hasn't got the same values as me, I don't want to work in that team. And when you think about companies who were very happy to talk about their purpose, speak about the values that they have, and suddenly that's gone. That's not relevant anymore. It's a problem for how I operate, how I appear, what does that mean? How can I still work as a company and be trusted? And what does it mean for society? And let's bear in mind. This is not just about business amongst all the institutions that the trust barometer tracks, NGOs, media, government, and business. Business is seen as being the most ethical, the most competent. And even there we see trust faltering, and most importantly we see it polarised, caught up in grievance and getting ever more insular.

Farzana Baduel (06:42):
Thank you, Tim. I wanted to just pull in a thread about polarisation. And you mentioned about echo chambers, which obviously they reinforce the polarisation that we're seeing in society. Do you see the polarisation across all different strands? So a mass class divide? Do you see people feeling that the system is just rigged against us and there's the sort of haves and the have nots establishment and those who have been left behind by the system that isn't really working for everybody. Do you think it's also an economic issue or cultural? Psychological? Is there a technological divide as well? I mean, what's your take on the polarisation?

Tim Weber (07:21):
So the data show us, and they show that to us since about, I think 10 years or so, that there is a clear divide, a trust divide between people who have a low income and people who are well off. Why? It's very simple. People are well off. The system works for them, they're happy people, relatively happy. They trust because yeah, of course I'm making money. Yeah, I'm rich. But here's the fundamental thing, the trust is general. This gap between those who are well off and those who are not is widening. And it is widening dramatically in industrialised societies like the United Kingdom, Germany, the United States, Canada and so on. So that is the first thing. The second thing is it's a cultural thing. If you only believe people who are like me, if you're unwilling to trust people who have different values, a different background, a different culture, a different lifestyle, then you have something on top of that.
(08:44):
And then in technology, we've seen that already some time ago, that people are increasingly worried about the impact of technology on their lives. Yes, the technology sector has for a very, very long time been the most trusted of all industries. Why? Because we use things like this phone here, awesome, it works for me, but as soon as it comes to technologies that people are not quite certain about, it used to be genetically what fight fooled, self driving cars, AI, people are getting really concerned. And actually right now we are at this point where people just fear that AI is going to take away their job. And low income people feel that, especially much low and middle income people.
(09:42):
You know what the most depressing statistic in the whole of the trust barometer is for me? That people are losing hope. There is hardly any country now that we track, and we track 28 countries around the world, large and small. There's hardly any country where people believe that the next generation will be better off than they themselves are. So if you think things only get worse after, well, certainly we've done the transformative now for 26 years, but we've gone through decades of, oh, things will get better, people will get richer, my children will be better educated. And that is now flipping and is of course flipping especially for younger people. Then we have a huge problem at our hand. And then the question is what can we as a society do about it and what can businesses do about it? Because if business is seen as the most competent and the most ethical institution, and if 61% globally still believe that I can trust one person, that's my CEO, and alongside my neighbour who has similar trust values, then there is a responsibility and obligation on business to act and become part of that solution.
(11:15):
Although just to add one more statistic, if you have an insular mindset, if you don't trust others, then only 43% of these people will trust the CEO of their company. So there are limits to what a CEO or company, a business can achieve. But chiefly, they have to try because otherwise society will just fall apart.

Doug Downs (11:40):
Okay, so from that, I want to ask you a question about fear, Tim. And the question, it's about how, it's not about why we fear. Our brain notices threat first, and I get why gets attention by default, the amygdala lights up the ancient part of the brain. I think that's just how the brain works. And you and I aren't going to fix that. So my question is what are the structural forces in media, politics, the tech ecosystem that play on human nature to amplify the bad news? I know why bad news and fear move faster and why they stick. I get that, but how can we help to blunt the effects of fear to enable that trust brokerage that the Edelman Trust Barometer report suggests outside of our turtle shells?

Tim Weber (12:35):
So I've been a journalist for more than 20 years and was this old flippant phrase, if it bleeds, it bleeds. So if there's something horrible happening, this will be the main story. The one thing I learned during my years being in communications is that fear stops people from taking in information. Think about climate change.
(13:05):
If you tell people how awful everything is going to be, they're just going to shut down. They shut off. They're not going to listen. If you give people hope, if you show them what is doable, what is achievable, you can break through this. And this is where this concept of trust brokerage, brokerage comes in. If a company goes out there and tries to browbeat people and tell 'em, this is how it is and this is how we can make the world a better place, people will not listen if they have a different point of view. But if you bring people together to work together, if you facilitate this coming together and try to help people with different points of view to develop a solution, to work together towards a solution, then you can create trust. Now, will everybody happily join such an experiment? No. But companies that just tell their people this is how it is, will not succeed.
(14:19):
But companies that provide maybe a platform, provide a solution, a path towards a solution that brings people together, that may overcome fear. But there is no silver bullet solution. I think this is not, oh, just if you just do this, it'll work. No, because it's really hard work. If you've ever been, I dunno, at a Sun's Thanksgiving dinner, or you've met that uncle or just a young colleague who is of a very different persuasion, and you say, how can they even think that? How can they believe that? Do they not know that? If that is your instant reaction, and I confess it's very often mine, then you have lost already because you will never be able to establish trust. So I think we all have a lot of learning to do as individuals and as companies. How can we make that trust happen? How can we broker that trust? What can I as a company, I as a brand do to work that? And there are some examples that are well known and a horde winning in, for example, the work we did with Heineken, where we bring two people together from very different backgrounds.

Doug Downs (15:45):
That was that ad series from a few years ago, right? Absolutely. And it brought you, okay, I remember this ad. What happened

Tim Weber (15:52):
There? Well, basically on a few subjects, we brought people together. You just could see there from such a different background and over drank, they were just talking about themselves and people were completely flipped in their understanding of what that other person was. It's the kind of person you would probably cross the road for if you see them or whether you are a heavily tattooed skinhead or heavily tattooed, very alternative lifestyle person, whatever it is.

Doug Downs (16:28):
So Tim, beer is the solution then, that beer is the silver bullet

Tim Weber (16:33):
I wouldn't say that. I think I don't drink. Alright. But no, what it is is the connection, that platform to talk. But how do you do that in a world of 8 billion people? How do you scale it?
(16:47):
And I think the place of work is an important one. All the platforms that companies can provide, what is it that a company does, say an activation around public events or in public spaces? What is it that companies can do with their airtime, with their content platforms to provide that understanding, to see that meeting of minds? We are at Edelman, we always say, you can't just tell people, trust me, action earns trust. So what is that action platform that a company can create to make that change? To make people understand that by working together, we can save the society? We can reestablish society. Over the past 26 years, and when I was a journalist and now at Edelman, I've been every year following the trust barometer. And every year I've been slightly more depressed about the state of the world. And now we are at this point where I say, God, this is really getting dire.

Farzana Baduel (18:03):
Tim, one question from my side, people always say the truth speaks for itself, but that's not always really the case. And the great persuaders aren't necessarily the truth tellers. And what I wanted to ask you is in this world where you've got the persuaders and the trust brokers, what's the difference?

Tim Weber (18:25):
Oh, and persuaders try to get people to think like themselves, but that's not a given anymore. You can't expect that people think like you do, you can just gather your tribe around you. Nice. But it's limited. And in a world that is so heavily polarised and that is fragmenting in lots of echo chambers or turtle shells, that won't get you very far. That's why bringing people together is so much more important. That's why trust brokerage is the way forward, I would say.

Doug Downs (19:14):
I love that question, banna, because it's the difference between marketing, which persuades and public relations, which builds trust. Absolutely. That's the core of

Tim Weber (19:23):
It. Yes, absolutely. And if you look at the, I mean, can I trust Gartner? I don't know. But if you've looked at the latest Gartner forecast, they expect that in today's world, public relations will gain dramatically importance, partly also because of how people get their information increasingly from generative engines, AI. And that is another really, really important thing to bear in mind here. How will AI change people's minds? Because AI tries to please you, which means it reinforces the echo chamber and the turtle shell because it tries to play into exactly what you want and what you're usually interested in.

Farzana Baduel (20:13):
Brilliant. Thank you, Tim.

Tim Weber (20:14):
Perfect. Thank you very much. I hope this was useful.

Farzana Baduel (20:19):
Here are the top three things that we learned from Tim Weber. Number one, facilitate. Do not browbeat. Bring people with different views together towards shared solutions rather than telling them what to think. Number two, action over words. You can't simply claim trustworthiness. Trust must be earned through concrete platforms and actions. Number three, fear closes minds. Hope opens them. Lead with what's achievable rather than what's alarming. So people stay open to new information.

Doug Downs (20:59):
And I still think I heard a number four in there that beer solves the world's problems. I think

Farzana Baduel (21:05):
That, oh, I don't know about that. I'd say it's white wine.

Doug Downs (21:09):
It could white wine. Yeah. If you'd like to send a message to our guest, Tim Weber, we've got his contact info in the show notes. Hey, maybe someday you'll have a beer or a white wine with him. Stories and Strategies, coproduction of Curzon Public Relations and Stories and Strategies Podcasts. Hey, you feel like this episode, leave us a rating, possibly a review. That's great. Social proof. Thank you to producers, Emily Paige and David Olajidi. Lastly, in a world of turtle shells, the only bridge left is personal referral. Please forward this episode to one friend. When you do that, you're not descending audio. You are lending credibility. Thanks for listening.