Crisis Communication Gaps: What CEOs Aren't Saying

Every comms professional knows the playbook. A crisis hits, you move fast. Holding statement, talking points, media plan, stakeholder map. You do it well because you've trained for it. You bring the plan to the CEO expecting alignment and instead you get a polite nod and silence. Not pushback. Not disagreement. Just silence. 

And that silence is worse than any argument because it means the CEO has already stopped listening. Not because your plan was bad, but because it was solving a problem they weren't thinking about.

This is the gap that quietly erodes the comms function's credibility in organizations everywhere. Communicators are passionate people. That passion is their greatest asset, until it becomes a bias that pulls them toward issues that feel urgent but aren't connected to the core business. 

And when that happens enough times, the CEO doesn't fire you. They just stop inviting you into the room. 

Listen For

3:09 How Do CEOs vs. Comms Leaders Actually Respond to Global Crises?
4:26 When Should You Speak—and When Are You Giving an Issue Oxygen?
6:28 Do PR Professionals Need Financial and Data Literacy to Be Strategic?
11:44 Why Is Reporting Not Enough? And What Does Real Analysis Look Like?
15:13 Can AI Truly Make Your Communications Strategy More Effective?

Guest: Johna Burke, CEO and Global Managing Director, AMEC (International Association for the Measurement and Evaluation of Communication)

Email | Website | LinkedIn

Doug

Substack | Website | LinkedIn

Farzana

Substack | Website | LinkedIn

Are you a brand with a podcast that needs support? Book a meeting with Doug Downs to talk about it.

Apply to be a guest on the podcast

Connect with us

LinkedIn | X | Instagram | You Tube | Facebook | Threads | Bluesky | Pinterest

Stories and Strategies is the Official Podcast Sponsor of IABC World Conference in Toronto June 14-16, 2026

Click here to check it out https://wc.iabc.com 

Transcript

Emily Page (00:00):
When a crisis hits, everyone in the building reacts. The question is whether they're reacting to the same thing.

Doug Downs (00:12):
This is a fictitious story, but the lesson it provides is real. A factory fire breaks out at a manufacturing plant in Southeast Asia. Nobody's hurt, but the video is bad. Smoke and flames and workers standing in a parking lot looking shaken. The comms team does what comms teams do. They do it well. Within an hour, there's a holding statement. Within two hours, the CEO has talking points. By the end of the day, there's a full media plan, empathy, transparency, accountability. They've prepared statements for employees, for customers, for regulators. They're ready to go on camera. They're proud of the speed. The CEO reads the plan. She doesn't argue with it. She doesn't say it's wrong, but she sets it aside because she's looking for something else. The plant made a component that goes into four other products across three continents. Two of those products ship next week.

(01:09):
 One of them is for a client that represents 9% of annual revenue. The CEO is not thinking about the press conference. She's thinking about whether that client calls today or tomorrow. The comms team is solving for reputation. The CEO is solving for survival. They're in the same building, reading about the same fire, and they are in two completely different conversations. Neither one is wrong, but only one of them knows the other exists. Today on Stories and Strategies, why the most dangerous distance in any organization is the space between your comms plan and the business plan. My name is Doug Downs.

Farzana Baduel (02:06):
And my name is Farzana Baduel, and our guest this week is Jonah Burke joining us from lovely Arizona. Hi, Jonah.

Jonah Burke (02:14):
Hello, Doug. Hello, Farzana. Wonderful to be here with you.

Farzana Baduel (02:17):
Now, Jonah, you are the CEO and Global Managing Director of AMEC, the world's largest professional body for measurement and evaluation of communications, and also a member of both the PR News Measurement Hall of Fame and the ICCO Hall of Fame. Now, you've spent over 30 years proving that communications isn't just having a seat at the table. It's a seat that earns its place through evidence.

Doug Downs (02:48):
Amen. So Jonah, you sit on CEO chat groups and comms chat groups. When a major global event hits, you see both sides. It's a shame there's two sides, but you see both sides reacting in real time. What's the difference between how a CEO responds and how a comms leader typically responds?

Jonah Burke (03:09):
So you're right. It isn't sides, right? That is not the most polarizing effect that our society is facing, but there is a parity for sure. And so the CEO is talking about how does this affect the business, right? The supply chain, the results, the quality, those issues. And comms leans into what should we say? What's the message? What should we say? And so that by design creates this strange pattern of behavior where really strategic communicators are also thinking about the business and what to say. And they're able to thread that needle best around if they should say something, right? Because I think that's the other piece that is so important. And CEOs want to be relevant, right? They believe in comms, they want it to be there, but they also want to make sure that I think they're far more conservative generally on when to speak, which is ironic since so many PR people are trained, media training 101 is the power of the pause, right?

(04:26):
 What are you going to give oxygen to? And so it's really in some of those moments. And granted, I'm seeing that in raw communication style. So it isn't necessarily a polished performance, but it is interesting to see the immediacy and the gut reaction to things as opposed to, okay, let me pause before we give anything oxygen. What is the strategic approach to this as opposed to the immediacy of something? Because every issue that's important isn't necessarily important to your business. And so I think there is that divide for comms professionals who are incredibly passionate. I mean, across the board, incredibly passionate to temper that a little bit more with that strategic mindset of like, "Yes, this is important. This is important to me. This is important to my family." Does that mean it's equally important to the stakeholders of your organization based on what they're trying to do, how they're positioning themselves in the industry?

Farzana Baduel (05:41):
So doing a data and sort of financial literacy tends to be quite abundant and in spades in sort of CEOs. A lot of CEOs, former CFOs, it's often a route in, for instance, whereas comms people, they don't necessarily have that similar sort of background in financial literacy and data and so forth. And do you think that the two areas where PRs can really elevate in order to bring them into a strategic comms sort of role and then get more and have a better connection with C suite is actually the planning side and the measurement side. And those are the two areas that we perhaps traditionally comms people neglect a little bit. We sort of get into the doing part.

Jonah Burke (06:28):
In my humble opinion, absolutely. I wouldn't have the best job in the world if I said anything different though, right? Because I think there is this ... And so it's a couple of things converging all at once that make this especially a very interesting time. With data, there is no shortage of data. With AI, there is no shortage of access to information that can power the machine of strategy. And I think there is a slight divide with people decrying strategy, but not applying strategy. And that means being inclusive of multiple positions, of multiple outcomes, of multiple opportunities and options within data. And when you talk about the financial implications, that's very important. And I think that they think about them very different, right? Because reputation, which is managed by comms, is a financial asset of an organization. And so they are thinking about the financial part of it, but just in a different way.

(07:44):
 And I think there needs to be that broadening of execution of what that means in order to be really effective. And we use strategy and strategic, I think, a little more generically than the C suite generally does, because don't get me wrong, there are some CCOs who are straddling both of those areas and they're doing both incredibly well. And that is because they are aligned with their organization's business needs and the power that comms has to that. As opposed to seeing their work as activities, they see it as a lifeblood in that connective tissue for their organization. And they can only do that when they are truly strategic and they are using data and measurement to inform those decisions of what's important and then have the confidence to press forward with that.

Doug Downs (08:45):
So Jonah, to paraphrase, what I'm hearing is there are times we build our comms plans essentially based on what we know to be best practice. We might be members of CIPR or IEBC or the PRSA in the United States. And we learn from our brethren and we break bread with them, we drink coffee, we talk about when I did this, I did this and my leader doesn't understand. But what you're saying is there are going to be KPIs and strategies that support those KPIs that are specifically for the business. And it is actually the job of comms to help the business, not just best practice public relations.

Jonah Burke (09:29):
Correct, correct. If you aren't aligned with the business, then you

Doug Downs (09:34):
What are

Jonah Burke (09:34):
You doing

Doug Downs (09:34):
It for?

Jonah Burke (09:36):
Right. Well, and that's where sometimes we get into these weird chicken and egg conversations of what we're doing is very important. It's like, to who, why, for how long? And it isn't that it's not important, but it's that if you aren't in the right seat at the right time with the right information, then you are going to be marginalized. Then you are still scrambling for a seat at the table. And I think there's a bigger threat to comms. And that is not that there isn't a seat at the table, but when these plans and things are presented to a CEO that aren't thoughtful and mindful specifically of the business, that they don't create that connection to different audiences and stakeholders, if it becomes fluff, a good CEO will always take that on, right? Because they'll be like, "Okay, this is important. We also want this person's perspective." But what communicators in that position will find, if they have a blind spot to why this matters to the business, their invitations to meetings and to discussions and their credibility will wane.

(10:56):
 And so they'll just get phased out in a different way, right? They'll always be important from a tactical perspective, but at a strategic level, they have to be relevant on all of those cylinders of why it's important to the organization and know that and know that it is the organization that they are there to serve in that way, sometimes not greater society, but very specific stakeholders that greater societal issues have implications to, but there are a lot of people tackling those.

Farzana Baduel (11:35):
And Jonah, I wanted to bring it back to some basics. AMEC is about measurement and evaluation. What's the difference?

Jonah Burke (11:44):
It's kind of like probably a more modern way of thinking about it to make it easy for people to understand is there is reporting and analysis, right? Reporting is that report card. Here's what we did. We are great. Here are the reasons why our activities are stacked up in a big stack and we can say why we are so busy. Analysis is your ability to take that information and drive insights and now be able to say, "Okay, this happened. It's what we counted on. It's what we didn't count on in some cases, right? And here's how things have changed or here's how we are going to take this information and be able to change minds, bodies, spirits of our stakeholders that we are trying to do." And driving insights is one of the most unique things that comms are positioned to do because while there aren't a lot of data scientists that went into comms for a variety of reasons, comms people are excellent generally at interrogating data, right?

(12:58):
 Conducting that interview of the, why is this important? Why does this matter? How did we get here? And once they're able to put aside that fear of failure, right? Because everybody wants to be very successful, a lot of type As that don't want to identify anything that might be just shy of the bar. Once they identify that as a superpower and say, "Oh yeah, that failed, but I know why. I know how we're going to avoid that failure in the future. And here's what we have learned from our audience as a result of this perceived failure, that is steroids for any effective communication program."

Farzana Baduel (13:40):
I love

Doug Downs (13:41):
It. Okay. So be passionate about communications, learn as much about communications, be passionate. That's one circle. Be strategic to help your business. Where do those Venn diagrams ... Where's the nirvana place in the middle of those two Venn diagrams?

Jonah Burke (13:59):
Relevance.

Doug Downs (14:01):
And how do I know I'm relevant?

Jonah Burke (14:03):
Because you are a driver of decisions and credible information in your organization. People are coming to you not just for tacticals. "Oh, hey, I need this press release sent out." But they're coming to you to say, "Hey, we're seeing this trend. Do you have any data that correlates with this so that we can understand the why behind it?" Or, "You guys were really good at shortening the time that people spend on hold because we've been able to boost some of our website. We've been able to boost our appearance on our trustworthiness on social channels. So how do we do that for this issue?" That's how you know you're relevant and you can drive and fuel that with great data.

Farzana Baduel (14:47):
And Jonah, is AI making things easier for PRs to get in that middle of that Venn diagram of relevance, being passionate about what we do, but at the same time, making sure that what we do is aligned to the organization. Is AI going to help us get into that sweet spot of just being strategic in our communications?

Jonah Burke (15:13):
Yes and no. AI can help in a lot of different ways. As long as you aren't outsourcing your critical thinking to AI, you're using it to challenge some of those assumptions, it can be incredibly powerful. When people are outsourcing it and saying, "Okay," I get a little bit itchy when people say, "I can put together a plan now in five minutes." That sounds amazing. Does anybody care about that plan? Is it not so generic that it could be plugged into any organization? So I think that the long answer is it will make people better because it will allow you to create a persona of your audience modeling to be able to test it against those audiences and then present that as a tested plan. And so now some of the assumptions and the theses that you have can come steeped in credibility of data. But if it is just words on a paper, then no.

(16:19):
 Words on a paper, as long as we're outsourcing that, then that isn't strategic to begin with. And I always get a little concerned when everything is not a crisis, right? Everything is not the most urgent thing that you've ever done. And I think there is this effect of the adrenaline, right? It creates that OxyContin approach. So you're on it. You're like, "We're on it, we're going," and you feel it going, but everything is not a crisis. Everything is not a fire alarm fire. And I think the fire station takes all kinds of calls, right? Some are five alarm fires. Some are cats in a tree, and that's not to say that the cat in the tree isn't incredibly important to the pet parent, but it's not a five alarm fire. And if you're treating everything with equality in that model, that's not sustainable. And there's enough research out there on mental health and burnout, especially in the comms area that if we aren't more strategic with our own personal human resources to be able to define and map and track that, how can we be trusted to manage and navigate the organizational resources in a meaningful way?

Doug Downs (17:41):
Okay. I know from an episode we did with Ipsos that CCOs are managing their way into this role with CEOs. They're being treated exactly the way you described, very, very relevant. How would I as a CCO work with my staff to keep the passion, but to temper it? What are some strategies that I can use so that they stay excited about comms, but I need them to understand we're helping the business here. That is job one. I suppose ethics are job one, but help the business is right up there.

Jonah Burke (18:17):
Paycheck fueled responsibilities when you are in the office is making sure that you are aligned with the business, right?

Doug Downs (18:27):
It's all about the greenbacks. Yes, yes.

Jonah Burke (18:29):
Yeah. I mean, I think we're all very passionate, but I think we also have the reality of all of these other responsibilities. And so while all of those things that we're passionate about make us interesting, make us well rounded, give us that opportunity to be a contrarian in many rooms, confirmation bias is real too. And so I think every team must have a contrarian and a contrarian that isn't ostracized, a contrarian that isn't the weirdo in the corner that it's like, "Oh my gosh, make this person stop." But the contrarian that has real credibility within your team to say, "Hey guys, I know that this is what we're thinking, but here's something else to consider." And that consideration specifically as it relates to the business needs to be vetted through your internal funnel of why that's important, why that may or may not be happening because I can almost guarantee that every board of directors has at least one closeted contrarian if they admit it or not.

(19:42):
 So when you're reporting things to them, if they don't see some of these signals that they're seeing, that again creates a credibility gap with the information that you have. And so relevance is in not being afraid to step outside of that confirmation bias bubble and to put your head up because if you can't manage putting your head up outside of the confirmation bias, there's probably much bigger problems and it might be a five alarm fire after all.

Doug Downs (20:14):
Love it. Love it. Jonah, thanks so much for your time today. Great stuff.

Farzana Baduel (20:17):
Thank you, Jonah.

Jonah Burke (20:18):
Wonderful, wonderful spending time with you guys and really appreciate everything that you all do to support the industry with great data and information. So great appreciation from a global person for everything that you're doing. It really does matter, and we really appreciate you.

Farzana Baduel (20:34):
Thank you. So here are the top three things we got today from Jonah Burke. Number one, align comms with business goals. CEOs, they care about business impact, so your plans must connect to organizational objectives, not just PR best practices. Number two, analyze, don't just report. Reporting shows what you did, but analysis. Now that drives insights about why it matters and what to do next. Number three, not everything is a crisis. Treating every issue as a fire alarm, it just burns through credibility and resources. So be strategic. Be considered about what gets your energy and attention.

Doug Downs (21:23):
And I think I'm guilty of that sometimes in my career where I've pushed too hard on a best practice instead of stepping back and thinking, "Well, what's best for the organization at this point?"

Farzana Baduel (21:34):
Yeah, I think some of us PRs, I think we are all a bit panic stations over one sort of tweet. And I think it's important in this permacrisis world, Doug, that we need to really use judgment a lot more.

Doug Downs (21:49):
Agree? Yeah. Yeah. Hey, if you'd like to send a message to our guest, Jonah Burke, we've got her contact information in the show notes, Stories and Strategies, co production of Curzon Public Relations and Stories and Strategies Podcast. If you like this episode, it'd be great if you left a rating, possibly review. Thank you to producers, Emily Page and Solomon eBay. Lastly, do us a favor for this episode to one friend. Thanks for listening.