Sacred Plant Medicine and Healing with Dr. Maya Shetreat MD

Diving into the world of herbalism and alternative healing, this episode with Dr. Maya Shetreat proved to be a game-changer. A pediatric neurologist, author, and holistic wellness advocate, her insights about plant medicines, neuroplasticity, and the profound connection between mind, body, and nature left me awe-inspired.

Exploring ancient wisdom, Dr. Maya highlighted the potential of plant medicines in our modern world. Notably, she emphasized that connecting with plants can be as transformative as consuming them, likening it to a dance with nature.

A standout moment was our exploration of "quantum dosing." Dr. Maya introduced me to "Quantum Drops ," master plant products created through a sacred process. These drops act as a tonic, offering the healing power of plants through vibrational connection. This revelation shifted my perspective on how plants impact us.

Throughout our conversation, Dr. Maya shared stories illustrating the transformative power of plant medicines. Her insights into

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Transcript

Mel Mutterspaugh  00:03

I am really excited about today's conversation with Dr. Maya. She is a pediatric neurologist. She is a fellow herbalist, she is the author of The Dirt Cure, as well as the Master Plant Experience. She's all about that connection to nature that so many of our children are deprived of today as are adults honestly, and bringing together sacred ceremony, plants and science and all of the amazing things that are here on this planet and this universe for us. So I'm really excited to see where this conversation leads Dr. Maya, and welcome, thanks for being here.

Dr. Maya  01:43

Thank you for having me.

Mel Mutterspaugh  01:44

Yeah, one of the first things I'm curious about to get things rolling is to hear a little bit about little Maya and maybe when you started getting into this plant world and understanding how important and sacred these things really are? I'd love to hear about that.

Dr. Maya  02:07

Yeah, I was an only child in the 1970s. So mostly nobody cared what I did during the day. For people who are younger, like this period, before cell phones, it was just like, when the street lights come on, you better come home. So I spent a lot of time by this little creek, which I now realized was run off in my neighborhood. But you know, I would just spend hours by this creek and with the rocks, and making little alters, I think, is what I was doing right, with little bits of nature and creating little things. And I would just sit and be there for hours. I wasn't only ever alone, like I had friends and did stuff too. But my early years of life were very nature based. And I spent a lot of time really communing with plants. Like I remember being a little kid, and we'd be driving through my suburban neighborhood outside of Washington, DC, and they would have clear cut certain lots, you know, and I remember feeling so sad, like I could hear the trees mourning and I would get very teared up and then my mother would ask me like, why are you so sad? Or why are you crying? And I would, and I would have to make up answers because I didn't know how to describe what I was hearing. I would say, I'm afraid my pet parakeet is going to die in a fire or I'd make up these weird answers. But really, I think a lot of it was this deep connection to the plants and of course, those things are not very appreciated in most communities.  I didn't stay interested in that way for a lot of my medical schooling and so on. But, um, but I do remember, actually, in college, my big awakening, you know, around herbs was I felt like I was coming down with something. There was a health food store down the street and I don't know why but I went there and said hi, I feel like I'm coming down with something. And they gave me a bottle of echinacea tincture, and I went home and I took this echinacea tincture, and I felt 100% better very quickly and I was like, whoa, this stuff works and I was like wow, and then I became like a believer in echinacea tincture. Then some years later, I had gone through all my training, I was coming out as an adult and pediatric neurologist and I decided to do this integrative medicine program at the University of Arizona. It was a distance program but Tirana Low Dog was the head of this program at the time, she was a director. And we didn't learn herbalism, we learned about herbs. But then I decided I wanted to train with her directly because she was actually very encouraging. She was someone who said, I think you're really gifted in this. And you know, I think it's something you can be really great at.

Mel Mutterspaugh  05:47

That's awesome. She's amazing. Obviously I love hearing that story. And that connection to the trees and the plants and the deep feeling for it. Because I fully resonate. When you talked about that, it made me think of my daughter. So I live in the woods in Oregon. And I'm really blessed for that. I'm on a beautiful mountain river and we have this little trail that we walk by and we would take this little mile loop hike every day outside of our house. And a year, maybe two now ago, a developer bought a piece of land and started chopping down the trees without all of the permits and I remember walking there with my daughter and like my heart literally aches and throbs for those things and, and there's my eight year old daughter like just gushing tears of sadness because of that connection and it's such a beautiful thing. I love that you have recognized that and really are flourishing with that and sharing that with so many because so many forget about it, or do laugh at it and say yeah, okay, crazy lady like, whatever. And we feel that we need to hide and suppress it. And that's such a shame because this earth is calling for us to help it right now, you know, and if more of us had that deep connection, maybe we could make even more impact. So that's beautiful. And then of course, I love hearing about the echinacea. And that like holy crap, this stuff really actually works. And it's so incredibly true. So beautiful. I want to also talk about you being a pediatric neurologist. That's pretty amazing. I would love to just open up the conversation on how nature connection can really impact our children and their health and well being in so many ways.

Dr. Maya  07:45

Yeah, absolutely. So yeah, I was trained in pediatrics, and then adult neurology and then pediatric neurology, so sort of a triple training. And one of the reasons I loved working with children, in particular children's brains, was because they're so plastic. Now, what I then discovered since that training is that adults brains are very plastic too, which is a very cool thing that is, I think, pretty newly understood, at least by the conventional medical paradigm. But in terms of the fundamentals, and this is some of the stuff I explored in The Dirt Cure. Why I called it The Dirt Cure was because people always think, oh, dirt, is it getting dirty? Is it nature? Is it germs? Is that right? And it's like, yes, yes, yes, yes. Right, it's being exposed to germs and microbes, important for children and adults, eating fresh food from healthy soil important for children and adults. And getting out into nature and what we know now about nature, right this, like, let's say, forest bathing, right, which is immersing yourself in the beauty of the forest on a regular basis, is really, we see all kinds of literature on this because it's an actual practice in in Asia and East Asia, where it's actually prescribed. So there's a lot of studies on it. And so we can not just know intuitively that it's beneficial. But actually look at the data that shows better executive function, better memory, more creativity, better focus, better sleep, subjective feelings of happiness, better immunity, so like, we actually have better natural killer cell function. Natural killer cells do not sound like a good thing, but they are part of our nonspecific immune system. So when you're exposed to any new microbe of any kind that might not be friendly to you, in some way, you want natural killer cells on board, it actually also boosts anti cancer proteins. So there's like such an array of benefits. And that's just right, the tip of the iceberg. I mean, there's so much more, right? We're sharing microbiomes, with the forest, which is this very rich microbiome, we're sharing chemistry. That's right. I mean, we know that the language of plants and I talk about this a lot and the master plant experience, that the language of plants one of their tools are there are chemicals, right, that they craft in the moment, depending on what's happening in response to the environment, which is us, right, and other creatures and weather and other kinds of stimuli that we may or may not even notice. And that is also part of our conversation and interaction with the plants is actually these compounds that they're emitting in response to us, right. And one of my teachers used to talk about how we fall in love, we have a love relationship with plants, where actually the same way you fall in love or feel like attracted to another person, you can feel that way with plants. And I certainly have found Oh, heck yeah. Where I'm like, oh, I love you, you know, this feeling, I mean, I could just turn around and look out this window, I can look at a big, beautiful echinacea plant that I actually planted, I want to say a year ago, and she's just absolutely luscious. Right now, all these beautiful pink echinacea. And just looking right, and that exchange, I feel those feelings, and then my body actually changes without even having the contact. But certainly when we do we smell the fragrance or we are in proximity, there are all these benefits. So for children, this is really important in particular, because they are in such a plastic phase of their lives, if we're going to talk about it from that perspective, where every little input is building a foundation of their nervous system of their physiology that's going to really be fundamental for how they develop and grow and live their lives, doesn't mean it can't change. But it's so powerful, especially in the first seven years of life where we're really building a lot of the programming, which, you know, this is something I explore in my most recent book, that a lot of our programming really happens in our first seven years of life. Absolutely. That actually infuses our unconscious, which is where we operate from the vast majority of the time. So what's happening in those first seven years, which isn't supposed to be perfect, it isn't supposed to be without sadness, it isn't supposed to be without difficult experiences, that's human, the human experience, right is that there's difficulties but having these touchstone experiences with nature, with the forest, with plants, with animals, all of that is very foundational and beneficial.

Mel Mutterspaugh  13:36

Absolutely. As you were speaking, I'm just sitting here nodding and nodding for those that can't see the video and I can relate to so much of that. And like that, that deep love for plants. I'm very much a nature lover. It's how I got into the world of herbalism. It was my passion for nature and desire to share it with so many people. I was a backpacking guide and wilderness therapist back in the day but what you were talking about with your feelings with echinacea brought me to a few plants that I have that love affair with, and it's even to that point where I can just think about them. And I can feel like Linden for instance, I can feel its loving arms wrapped around me and embrace me as if to say it's okay, whatever tough things you're going through right now. It's okay. And I see this same thing with my daughter and chamomile. She is somebody who deals with anxiety and every time she gets anxious, she'll get a tummy ache. And I'm like, well of course the gut brain connection is really working there. And we've gotten to a point like when she was young, she used to pick the chamomile flowers out of my tea and just eat them. She's still young, she's only 10 but since she was like one and a half and to this day when she has like a little stress or anxiety and it leads to that tummy ache I can say to her, Hey, do you want me to make some tea for you?

Mel Mutterspaugh  15:04

And I'll turn on the hot water and she never gets the tea. I mean, sometimes she does, but she'll definitely be like, Oh, I feel better she's making tea for me. And it's that connection that she has with that plant that is so incredibly powerful and beneficial. And, you know, hearing what you've got to say about the subconscious mind and it being formed, basically, from the ages of zero to seven, I love how you said, in there, like, it doesn't have to be perfect. They're going to go through tough times. That's part of life. That's how we live. That's how we learn. And when I started realizing that the subconscious mind is formed, I think as a mother, initially, I'll just be like, Oh, my God, I messed my kid up. Can I get a do over ?I did everything wrong. And that's part of their experience. So thank you for sharing that. That's, that's pretty amazing and exciting to chat about for sure. So

Mel Mutterspaugh  16:04

I want to talk a lot about The Dirt Cure, and what that is all about. I am a firm believer that kids need more dirt. And so do we as adults. And you know, you talked about the veggies and the microbes in the soil that are actually beneficial for our guts. And, yeah, I'd love to hear a little bit more about the dirt here. And then we'll get into your newest book, too.

Dr. Maya  16:27

Yeah. So the dirt The Dirt Cure is so funny, because, you know, when we were in the pandemic, there were people who asked me, well, would you rescind what you said about being exposed to germs? Because you know, what we're going through now. And I was like, why would I? No. More true now, right? When we're seeing something, our bodies are seeing something novel that we haven't encountered before. The real way to prepare for that is to have a really, really flexible and educated immune system. And the way that we have that is by being exposed to lots and lots and lots and lots of different microbes and actually incorporating them right, we now know that we, if we're lucky, have about three to five pounds of organisms, hopefully very diverse organisms, in our gut and on our skin, and so on. And the communities are different depending if it's in our nose and our mouth, in our esophagus, in our stomach, right? We used to think that there are certain parts of our body that were sterile, there's really no part of our body that's absolutely sterile. As far as we know, every part of our body has its own microbiome, even the placenta, right? That used to be this idea. It's sterile. No, it has a microbiome. So it's very interesting to discover that we're actually very, very dirty, in the best way possible, right? And that that actually protects us, right? The more diverse the organisms are in our body, the more their checks and balances. So one organism is not going to grow out of control, which we call infection, right? And cause a real problem. The other thing that's so interesting is that our mitochondria, I'm going to nerd out for a little extra moment here, mitochondria, energy makers of the cells like for, you know, we all learned at some point along the way, there was mitochondria that organelle. And they are like the engine of the cell. And they're also much, much, much more than that. But we now know, thanks to Lynn Margulis. And who came through with the Gaia theory, but also discovered that mitochondria are actually evolved over billions of years from microorganisms. So there are bacteria in our body that communicate with our mitochondria directly. And that is part of why the microbiome we now know controls things like our cognition, our memory, our immune systems, our hormones, our cravings, our sleep, all of that is is, let's say informed or controlled, depending on how you want to think about it by these three to five pounds of organisms. And part of how that happens is this direct line, this direct line of communication between bacteria and the guys in our cells who used to be bacteria, the mitochondria so it's really beautiful this system that it's like, we can almost look back into this lineage. And it's very spiritual to me actually, not just scientific, the way we all kind of come from the same, right? Like we couldn't have really become these big, complex organisms that we are humans. Without having partnered with bacteria, way back when we were, you know, wanting to be these eukaryotic beings.

Mel Mutterspaugh  20:31

Yeah, I love breaking down everything that you just did, it makes me excited. It really does. So thank you for sharing a lot or some of that and the importance and I know that you are really diving into the world of psychedelics and the healing properties amongst fungal psychedelics, and plant psychedelics and how those can have an impact on our brain. It's a really emerging field right now. Coming from it being, you know, a culture of drug use and abuse, and now recognizing like, there is actual therapy in all of this, and let's just open up that combo. And how this all works and how it's so beneficial for our brain. And, and that connection also to all the bacteria and the cells and how it all kind of, yes, it's a beautiful, sacred world.

Dr. Maya  21:39

Yeah, so I think right now, there's a big resurgence of psychedelic science, which is interesting and exciting. And I think part of why I wrote a book about it was because I feel like I want to bring a different perspective. I think we've gone through a psychedelic Renaissance before. In the 50s and 60s, we had very exciting science, and it was very promising. And it was also kind of a free for all in a way that was not really respectful of the power of these medicines, or we might even call the plant sacraments, right. And maybe we could even call the compound sacraments. I don't know. But my focus has been on master plants, in particular, because I think we have a history in our society. And by our I mean, the global north, or the modern society, whatever we want to call it, of tobacco of the coca plant of the poppy, the opium poppy, where we engage with something very powerful, that in most indigenous cultures would be thought of as a being, as a teacher, as a master, with the ability to transmit ancient wisdom, sacred wisdom, and we, we again, talking of the global north, we don't come with respect, we don't come with reverence, we don't come with a sense of reciprocity, we take, right? I mean, we take a drug, we take a psychedelic, we take a pharmaceutical, and that taking, even the word that we use I think has gotten us into a lot of trouble and my concern, and why I wrote my book, which is pretty far reaching in a lot of different areas around plant consciousness around the microbiome of our own trauma around how we might be needing to create something new. And maybe that's why these particular plants are emerging in this way at this time. You know, I think we're really being taught about how to be in the right relationship. Hopefully, we're learning that right where just to your point around these are drugs, right? People ask me that all the time, they ask me, Is this good or bad? Right? Are psychedelics good or bad? You know, and I say like even the indigenous teachers that I've learned with don't actually think that first of all, I don't even the word psychedelics is ridiculous to them, you know, but they they say, you know, Master plants are, are not good, and they're not like they're not bad. It's really about a relationship, right? They're powerful. What's our relationship with power? Like, how are you going to come? And that's going to decide in many ways, if you come with the right respect and reverence and an offering and not taking, then you will get the gifts right of these teachers of the sacraments and If you come in the wrong way, with the wrong intentions, or in an abusive way, or not respecting the spirits, not respecting the land, not respecting the wisdom holders, then you might get their malice, right. And we've seen what malice looks like. I mean, we could look at the opioid epidemic right now and see how that plays out, we could look at what cocaine did, right? When we purify ourselves, again, I use that term, but I say we as people, you know, have engaged in these ways that are not respectful and commodifying them and so on. So, and when people ask me about drugs, right, are these drugs? Or are these? These medicines, right? That the answer is always you know, it's really it has to do with our relationship. It's the same as if it's something like a germ or a microbe, right? People used to ask me that, like, what's the difference between a germ and a microbe, it's like, well, germ is just a pejorative term for a microbe, it's really all about us, right? How we receive it in our bodies, the host, and how we are interacting with that germ, whether it's going to act be a bad actor, or not a bad actor. Similarly, with Master plants, the question is, how are we showing up? And can we be in the right relationship, then it could be a teacher, a master, a sacrament, something transformative for the better, versus a drug, which really has to do with how we engage, right? It has to do with our relationship with the plant.

Mel Mutterspaugh  26:31

And the planet and all of the whole big picture of it all. I love that. So you keep speaking about Master plants. And I think some of my listeners will get what you're saying. But can you just break it down a little bit more on like, What do you mean, when you're talking about Master plants?

Dr. Maya  26:53

So master plants are really and when I say indigenous, I just want to be clear that indigenous does not represent one viewpoint, right? It's not monolithic, but actually describing, you know, many, many, many, many, many different perspectives. And what I'm referring to are the teachers that I've learned with and the wisdom I've been given to share. So I just want to be clear, I'm not a spokesperson in any way for indigenous people. However, the indigenous term master plants has to do with flora, fauna, fungi. So it's not, you know, what we would think of as technical. But flora, fauna, fungi that are neuro active, psychoactive, and potentially consciousness altering. Now, a lot of people think when they hear master plants, they assume oh, like psychedelic. So what I like to be clear about is, Master plants are not always psychedelic. So like, cacao is an example, to tobacco is an example. And there are many, many others that like Coca also, right? Not psychedelic, but altering, very powerful. And we know how powerful they are. Because coffee, right? What will humans do, to feel the feelings engaging with these plants? But any psychedelic plant will be considered a master. Right? So that's sort of the umbrella of what a master plant is, and the master plants are considered to be master teachers that are transmitting ancient wisdom. You know, we talk a lot about psychedelics as tools, right, I hear that a lot. Now, like this is a tool to help you with whatever, or compounds or chemicals. So again, going to the term psychedelic is really not the word that any indigenous people would use, in my experience, right? It's a word that's kind of made up in a sense, by Western culture, or Northern culture, but they'll talk about these as masters as sacraments. And they are beings, they're not things. They're not chemicals. They're not tools, in that sense, but they're beings and they're transmitting. The reason I wrote my book was to explore how when we get these gifts, what does the right relationship really look like? How do we, when we experience any gift from a master teacher, and I would include cacao, coffee, etc. I mean, what is our offering in return? How do we engage? How can we think about it as a gift? How can we think about what we are doing in our lives every day as an offering and so that's really a big part of the exploration beyond looking, of course at the science of psychedelics. And I want to mention, because you said, What does it do for our brains? So I can talk a little bit about what happens in our brains when we engage with psychedelics or psychedelic master plants, in particular. But I also want to say that I'm actually a very paradoxical neurologist in the sense that I don't think intelligence resides in our brains. I think intelligence resides in every cell in our body. And I go into this in quite a bit of depth in my book, but I think our cells are intelligent. And what I found in the research that I did about DMT, which is one of the common psychoactive neuro active psychedelic compounds that were actually drenched in, in the plant world, we actually make DMT endogenously. In our own nervous systems in mammals and humans, we can find DMT that we ourselves produce. DMT is actually interacting with our cells, not just our neurons, but our cells, every cell in the body as an indirect antioxidant. Likely, we are going to be working with these compounds, I'm going to say specifically, right, like DMT. However, pharmaceutical companies are tripping over themselves to create all these designer molecules that are like, you know, ayahuasca but without the vomiting, mushrooms without the trip, right. So that's happening, of course. But DMT in particular, actually engages with a receptor called the sigma one receptor that is very important for mitochondrial optimal function. It's very pivotal in terms of the structuring of proteins, it's called a chaperone protein. And what we know is that the parts of the cell that the DMT is activating through these receptors is actually related to Alzheimer's, Parkinson's, retinal degeneration, autism, cancer, I mean, on and on and on, you name it, traumatic brain injury. So what we're seeing actually clinically, in trials with mushrooms, with some with Ayahuasca, actually, and also with things like MDMA and ketamine, what we're seeing generally, is benefit for PTSD, for traumatic brain injury for major depression, for anxiety, for eating disorders, for addiction. And I can talk a little bit about why we think that's happening, right? I mean, one reason is just, there's plasticity that happens in the brain, during especially a mystical experience, but really any engagement it seems like and what I've discovered in working with people who are micro dosing, so I, I've guided people through those kinds of experiences, and we actually are seeing probably pain syndromes are going to be treated with micro dosing, asthma, autoimmunity, dementia, we're probably don't even need a mystical experience. But what we do know is parts of the brain that normally don't communicate, communicate, new connections are formed. And this is just one of those things I think is so beautiful in terms of the way everything mirrors everything. And a neuron of a person who's depressed is less connected to other neurons. So it's literally a lonely neuron. And with exposure to psychedelics, and probably many different possible psychedelics, we actually see more connections. So, the neuron will create new connections, new synapses. And that is part of actually like literally seeing neuron cells in the body becoming less lonely, right, more connected, and then we ourselves as people become less lonely and more connected. It's a very beautiful poetry, right that we see from cellular all the way to our macro level. And hopefully what that means too, to your point earlier is that, that sense of being connected which many people have in the mystical experience, which by the way, we don't need psychedelics to have a mystical experience. There's a lot of even formulaic ways we can do it like breathwork, and meditation, really deep meditation and a lot of other things that I talked about. But those mystical experiences also help us feel more connected to nature and feel that we're surrounded not by things but beings. And that is part of how we perhaps can be pivotal in our offerings around helping be in better relationship with the planet, right, and everything that's here and within her. 

Mel Mutterspaugh  35:34

Yeah, that's also beautiful to hear. It's really exciting and fascinating to hear. And to think like these kinds of discoveries, and just the awakening to these kinds of things that obviously have been here for 1000s and 1000s, and 1000s of years, but for our society, as it is today, to wake up to these kinds of things. It may be that pivotal thing that we need right now, like at last I spoke about earlier, like our planet is hurting. It needs our love, it needs our attention. But we have those powers that are up there that are like we don't give a damn because we just want to make money. What are you going to do? When all of that is gone? You know? So I love hearing about all of this. And you're just every question I asked you, you're dropping so much awesomeness. It quite honestly makes me very excited. And there's so much to talk about, that neuroplasticity and the connection of the neurons and like the lonely depressed neuron and then bringing it all together. And I can't help but think like, I talk a lot to moms on my podcast, you're a mom, you are also a pediatric neurologist. So I would love to hear your thoughts on our children experiencing these kinds of things. Like obviously, you know, I spoke about how my daughter has this connection. She's very fortunate in that way. And I was adamant to make it that way. But when we're bringing on plants that we know to be psychoactive and these master plants, what are your thoughts with our kids and their developing brains and all of that?

Dr. Maya  37:16

Well, I think it remains to be seen, how they might help support or not,...children, right, but we do know that many of us, I will say, many of us, I'm sure of your listeners engaged with psychedelics in some way, shape or form in teenage years.

Mel Mutterspaugh  37:43

Probably. Sure.

Dr. Maya  37:45

I don't think that is, you know, I don't think that's by accident. I think we crave these rites of passage. And there's a way in which we know, right, I mean, I think the way it happens isn't not always the best way. And I would love for there to be a container that is a more sacred container and something that actually is a safer container for something that is, that is a rite of passage. But I mean, you know, I think I've thought a lot about things like raves. I mean, there are all these ways raves didn't exist so much when I was a teenager. But I think we create, right, we created these opportunities for rites of passage where we did have these transformative additions, let's say. And usually, people do fine with it. But if we I think had a more of a container, and it wasn't just like this stigmatized, illegal drug kind of paradigm, I think it could be much more meaningful and much more beneficial and safer and more sacred. So, to that end, I think it's interesting. I think there are questions. I know that it's being explored right now in the scientific literature, like in research, you know, what happens in the developing brain? I think microdosing is going to be a really interesting thing, especially for teens. I think that we have so many kids that are on antidepressants now that I find it very worrisome. What I didn't talk about is that many psychedelics and certainly let's say like philosophy mushrooms, the magic mushrooms that are pretty widely available now. They actually stimulate very particular serotonin receptors. And so people think, oh, yeah, serotonin receptors. Well, we have serotonin and SSRIs. The pharmaceutical stimulates serotonin. And so what we just recently discovered in this year is that, in very beautiful research, honestly, is that we have these...so most receptors, let's say, on neurons or on any cells, or outside of the cell, they live on the cell membrane, and the the neurotransmitter comes or the drug or whatever it is, comes and activates the receptor. And then the receptor basically acts as the mediator to instigate certain actions inside the cell. And that's partly because neurotransmitters don't and a lot of drugs actually don't cross into the cell very well. So the receptor is sort of like a way to mediate that and take care of that issue. But it turns out that psychedelic molecules cross the cell membrane much more easily. And what that means is that they stimulate, it turns out intracellular serotonin receptors that aren't being stimulated by our own serotonin, or by even most like SSRIs, let's say, they stimulate these inner serotonin receptors that otherwise won't be stimulated. And probably that's part of what's happening in the psychedelic experience.

Mel Mutterspaugh  41:18

That is all so fascinating. It's mind blowing. Yes, I'm definitely from the era of children that used psychedelics recreationally. In the 90s, and whatnot, I was also born in the 70s. And it's really interesting to think about it from all of these perspectives that I haven't thought about as a mom, and as somebody this far down the journey. I do remember though, when I was young, and first getting into the world of psychedelics, I had this inner firm belief, and I'm not telling everybody out on my podcast to do this. But I had this belief and this feeling that everybody needed to do it, because it was like opening up their brains like a can opener to this vast world of possibility and just so much. So hearing you speak about this, it just obviously, it's going to trigger a lot of my childhood and my own memories and my own thoughts on it. And the thought about, you know, our teenagers, maybe eventually being able to have this safe, sacred space. So it's not an act of rebellion as it was for me, like I read about everything before I did anything because I was a straight A student. And I was super athletic. And I didn't want to be a druggie. But I also like, read about all these things. And I was like, Oh, these psychoactive things sounded really fun. And that's the way I went with it. And to think about them having a safe space, to have all of that healing and all of that connection. And as I thought about it as a teenager that can be an opener, opening up the mind, body and soul and spirit to so much experience like our kids need help. You know, our kids need help in this society, especially with the screens and the social media and the stress and the strain whack for shizzle ism that goes on in our society. Like, yeah, I don't know if those possibilities really excite me for so many people. Yeah. And if, obviously, there's so many stigmas and boundaries to get through and that and that's what you're doing. That's what you're talking about in your book. That's what you're awakening people to, which is awesome. Thank you, by the way. Wow. If there's somebody out there listening right now, and they're like, Hmm, maybe. But what about all this stigma? And what about this? And what about that? Like? How can they dive deeper and learn? Is this okay, Is this acceptable? Is it the right thing as a parent, for me as a parent, and potentially my young adults?

Dr. Maya  44:21

Yeah, so this is a very multi-layered question. I would start just by saying, I don't think that everyone needs to be taking psychedelics.

Mel Mutterspaugh  44:32

Yes, that's totally where I am. I also don't think that now, that's what I thought as a young child or young, young kid.

Dr. Maya  44:40

There are people who do think that and the psychedelic movement is so enthusiastic, that there is a way in which I think they're kind of putting the cart ahead of the horse or whatever that saying is, because we don't really know what is right for everybody. We don't know, you know, there's a whole attitude now, like, there's no bad trips, there's only challenging trips. And I'm like, no, there are actually bad trips, where people are seeing them much worse on the other side than when they went in and to try to say that's not the case, to me, is irresponsible, and is as harmful to not just people who we want to help and see benefit, but also harmful to the movement. Right? To me, it's like, if you can only say good things, then I'm going to be suspicious of anyone who says everything is good, nothing is bad. I just don't agree with that. So I want to be clear that I think this is not for everyone all the time. I think people when they feel called that is a real, that is a real calling, right. But it doesn't always mean go out and have a big journey or fly to Peru or right. I mean, it doesn't mean those things necessarily, like it means maybe start by educating yourself, read my book, read some other books that might be out there. And maybe just start learning about the plants, right, more like just start that relationship because to me, so I grow master plants. And so I grow in Ayahuasca vine, I grow San Pedro cacti, Groberg Mansi, I grow tobacco, I grow a lot of sacred plants, and I tend them. And that, for me, is a kind of medicine where I get a lot of transmissions from them. And I don't, I always tell people, I live in a very psychedelic reality all of the time. Like, I don't need a lot of the smallest nudge to really be in a magical place. Like I do walk around a lot like a four year old, very entranced by the world and the beings and the world and so on. And a lot of people I know, in my practice, over the years have been these little sensitive creatures and adults, right, that are that are very, very perceptive. And already are kind of in this, you know, I talk a lot in my book about sensory gating, which we know is a attribute that we all have, but we're conditioned to really narrow it and those of us who have wider sensory gating for any number of reasons, which is called neuro divergence in our society, but also it's seen in gifted people and in very sensitive people, empathic people and then of course, ADHD, sensory integration, disorder, autism, all the way up to you know, bipolar, schizophrenia, you know, where there's wider sensory gating, and maybe issues around interpretation of what is coming in. Right, I actually think we have an opportunity to really train people in how to interpret what is coming through that sensory gating the wider sensory gating, rather than just pathologizing. But that said, for me, that's why I think there's a lot of beauty in what I think of as quantum dosing. So we have macro dosing, which is the full on trip, right, where you're out of commission, and having, you know, big psychedelic visions and changes in sensorium and you can't operate in the regular world, probably, like you normally would. Micro dosing is sub psychedelic, where you're actually able to do your life, and you're getting a lot of the benefits and plasticity shifts and so on. But you're but you can parent, you can drive, you can go to work, you know, and you can still over time have an unfolding, that I've seen in my work be very, very transformative for people. But what I noticed when people would reach out to me about micro dosing long ago was, they actually, in many cases, would already start having changes, before they ever ingested anything, their lives would start to change in really significant ways. And what I realized was the relationship had already begun, the journey had already begun, to your point of your daughter, right, even thinking back to chamomile and how she heard chamomile. And she's like, Great, I'm better, right? Is that like, we don't always need to ingest in order to experience the medicine. And so one day as I was caring for my plants, I got this very strong message. That is why people think that they need to ingest us to experience our medicine, show them a different way. And I'm like this neurologist many years ago, and I'm like, Ah, like, you know, I mean, obviously, like, I mean, I've engaged with homeopathy. I know about flower essences. It wasn't like the most foreign idea but I was like, I don't. What do you think I'm going to do here right. And also like, why, why me? And what is it and what am I going to do? So over time? You know, what we did was created, and I say we I mean, me and my, my particular plants that I have a very long standing, you know, relationship with over years and years and years where we created in ceremony these vibrational master plant medicines, which we call quantum drops. And what I think of them as is not quite like flower essences only in the sense that they're what I would call ceremony in a bottle. So, you know, we do this at certain times of the month, of year with the plant, with music of the plants, with medicine, songs, and so on, and so on and so forth. Even when they're bottled, there's music, certain music playing, we have prisms, we have like a lot of different ways that the process from beginning to end is a ceremonial process. And I don't think that's the only way to get a quantum dose. I think growing plants is a way to quantum dose. I even put, you know, on the front of my book, and I hope it's okay. But like, you know, I put this on the front of the book, it's a quantum dose, right in the sense that your change, when you look at this kind of this is an Ayahuasca slice, you look at this sacred geometry and this beautiful image, it's transformative, there's a way in which it's very potent and powerful and it transforms you. So I think there are a lot of ways and this is really based for me on the concept of icaros. So anyone who has been in an Ayahuasca ceremony, and there are other forms of this in different kinds of ceremonies, but the maestro has dieted, as it's called with the plant with ayahuasca and maybe other plants too to become a master of the teachings, right, and the wisdom of that plant. And they're given songs. And the songs are not like songs they compose, but they're considered to be transmissions, vibrational transmissions from the plant that come through the voice of the maestro. And if anyone has been in an Ayahuasca ceremony and heard these icaros, you know that there are certain icaros that make you feel certain ways, and you don't have to under it's just a tune. It's not, it's not because of the words or the lyrics or anything, it's not like that, where you feel like I'm gonna vomit when I hear this or, or I'm gonna cry my eyes out, or I'm gonna, like, start calming down and coming back into my body, right? There are these ways in which you feel completely transformed by the music and the teachers that I've learned with feel that the icaros are equal medicine. Equal in power to ingesting the ayahuasca and in some cases, and some maestro's do not actually give ayahuasca to drink, or maybe they give just a sip, they say they feel that the icaros are actually the powerful medicine. So it varies, right. And this is really kind of led me to delve into quantum physics and quantum science, looking at how sound and light and vibration and emergent systems and a lot of things that I touch on or explore in my book, but you know, we'll be bringing a lot more kind of to the forefront around what I think is going to be the future of medicine is we don't have to always, we don't have to always consume, we actually can be in a healing relationship without ever having to, like destroy, let's say, in any way, the plant or the animal or you know what I mean? Like we don't have to always, we don't always have to go with the sledgehammer or, or the mechanical, compound oriented approach and I know a lot of people think this is, you know, whatever they think. They can be skeptical. I was my first skeptic, right, so I had to pass a lot of what I did through my own bullshit detector, if I can say, but I think the science is actually growing and it's incredible. It's really beautiful science.

Mel Mutterspaugh  54:10

Yeah, it's really exciting on so many levels, it's great. I'm loving hearing you talk about the like, the connection. That's really what it's all about is the connection all the way around and that we don't have to take, we don't have to take it. We can create relationships with these plants by sitting among them. If you don't have the opportunity to grow them. Maybe you can go outdoors and just be next to them and they speak to you. They really, really do. I've experienced it myself multiple times in life and it's mind blowing, and it definitely makes you like wait, what?

Mel Mutterspaugh  54:51

Hold on, are you really? Am I really receiving this? Or am I just crazy but it's real. And it's beautiful and It's really fun for me to hear you talk about it and be like, oh, somebody else gets it. And then you get it on such a deep, deep level and you can bring the science to it. And that I think is beautiful. And it's also interesting like our society, we have to have that science for it not to be just quackery in so many eyes. So interesting to see it all. Talk to me a little bit more about the quantum drops and your master plant, your vibrational master plant products, and what is that all about?

Dr. Maya  55:39

So it's really just a tonic, essentially, that's made with structured charged water with the plant. So in the presence of the plant with the songs of the plant, with an altar and crystals and other elements that are basically all contributing to ultimately this tonic, I would almost call it that it is made alcohol free. So it's safe for people who are sober, who are pregnant, who are children, right, people who are medically sensitive people who are on pharmaceuticals, people who might be just sensitive period, right, the people who like you're the bee's knees three miles away. But the idea behind this is not everybody needs to have fireworks and cannon balls, or at least even you know, for people who do and who are leading up to an experience, cultivating a intimacy with the plant is a very powerful way to come. Not just like, I kind of think of it as like jumping into bed with the person that you met, right? It's like, kind of courting, right, and developing and cultivating something before you ever get to the moment that you would ingest. And then also integrating afterwards. Being in that daily relationship, and just taking these drops as part of a ritual, is very potent. And what I will say too is that now we've had 1000s of people who have engaged with quantum drops. So what's been very fascinating for me is testimonials that people have shared, only because I didn't. I didn't know I mean, I did work with them with people with their consent before I ever put them out in any way, but what I discovered was that people had deeply transformative experiences. I mean, just one quick story because I know we're, we have to close in a minute but but we I had and this is just a little cute example. But it really I feel like it illustrates something interesting that I had a doctor who had gotten, so we have the grandmother, the grandfather and the children. The grandmother made with my Ayahuasca vine, the grandfather was San Pedro cactus and the children with the mushrooms. And it's not because I'm gendering them or anything like that. But just it's it's the way that we name them. And someone had gotten the children, this doctor and he was interviewing me for something and he said, You know, I have to tell you something. I've been dancing every morning. And I was like, Oh, that's nice. He said, No, you don't understand. Like, I'd wake up in the morning. And I would just turn on music. I didn't take a shower. I didn't get dressed. I didn't have my coffee. I was just dancing. And he said I couldn't figure out what was going on. And then I realized it all started when I started taking the children. And it was just so interesting, right like this sense of joyfulness, which is something we've seen a lot with the children. And, you know, I've had lots of fascinating stories from experienced meditators, what they've noticed, or people who have neurodivergent kids like the whole gamut. It's been really, really powerful. And I do think it's engaging with sensory gating, right and allowing this sort of widening and modulating. More importantly, it's not just about opening the sensory gating, but about learning how to engage in a way that feels empowering, I think, but also like being able to dip your toe into the world that is more enchanted than we normally see.

Mel Mutterspaugh  59:42

Yeah. I love that. I am so excited about this conversation. I'm sad that I have to slow down now. I could chat with you about this for years. But life has to keep going. So I want to number one, stay connected. And I want to make sure that my listeners can find your books and can find your vibrational master plant products and the quantum drops. How can they do all of that? 

Dr. Maya  1:00:15

The best way to find all of that is to go to my website, which is DrMaya.com. They can go to quantum drops.com If they want to just look at the quantum drops, but they can also get there through my website. They can find my book there, of course, you can find my book also on Amazon, which, you know, on the one hand is not my favorite place to send people but it is also where you can find books.  I'm on Instagram, I'm pretty active, especially in my stories, but always just coming to my website. There's also a lot of just free information and a lot of events, where I've done lots of interviews and things like that, that people can dive into also for free.

Mel Mutterspaugh  1:01:09

Awesome. Thank you so much. It's really been fun and eye opening, mind opening conversation. I'm really excited to grab your book and learn so much more from you. So thank you for taking the time to chat with me and let the listeners hear what you've got to say as well. 

Dr. Maya  1:01:30

It was my pleasure. Thank you for having me by.

Mel Mutterspaugh  1:01:39

Thank you so much for tuning in to another episode of the herbalist path. Being on this journey with you is absolutely incredible. If you dig this episode, please leave me a review on your favorite podcast player and share it with your friends so that together we can make herbalism hashtags spread like wild flowers. On another note, I must mention that while I know you're getting some good info here, it's important to remember that this podcast is purely for entertainment and educational purposes and is not intended to be a substitute for medical treatment. While the information in this podcast is absolutely relevant. Herbs were different for each person and each condition. That's why I recommend you work with a qualified practitioner, whether that be another herbalist and naturopath or your doctor. So thank you again. I am truly honored that you're tuning into these episodes and on the path with me to make sure that there's an herbalist in every home again, don't forget to share this episode with your friends so that we can make herbalism hashtag spread like wild flower