Birthing New Beginnings & Communities w/ Jacquelyn Clemmons

Jacqueline Clemmons graces us with her wisdom on postpartum healing, doula work, and nurturing maternal health have profoundly moved many. Jacqueline shares her journey from supporting births organically at a young age to becoming a professional doula and founding the Okionu Birth Foundation. She discusses the significance of holistic support for both families and birth workers, emphasizing the importance of addressing mental health, community support, and physical needs post-birth. Jacqueline shares insights on the transformative power of community, the importance of holistic healing. Jacquelyn is also a speaker at the Holistically Healthy Family Summit speaking on how Postpartum is Forever. If you’re a mom, this episode is for you!

01:30 Meet Jacqueline Clemens: A Powerful Doula

02:34 Jacqueline's Journey: From Doula to Wellness Center Owner

09:41 The Birth of Okionu Birth Foundation

09:57 The Meaning Behind Okionu

18:30 The New Wellness Center in Ashland, Oregon

23:23 The Impor

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Transcript

Hello everybody and thank you so much for tuning in to another episode I think that this one is a really, really special one. It very well could be the first time I have ever brought back another guest. Not that others haven't been worthy, but I just really love every time,  excuse me, every time I get to have a conversation with Jacqueline Clemens.

She is beautiful. She is powerful. She is amazing and so strong and so inspiring. And I had her back in, around the summertime, I want to say, in 2023, and then she came in and talked inside of the Apothecary Mama Herbal Mentorship, and she taught this lesson on how postpartum is forever,  and if this woman does not move you in the way that she speaks, you You may not be human, because she is just so incredibly powerful.

That lesson,  it brought me chills, and it brought me peace, and it brought me this feeling of like, oh my gosh, this motherhood journey that I've been on. It's forever, it is postpartum, it is forever, and my daughter is 10 now, and it was just so beautiful, and one of the mamas that was on there live had a relatively new baby, and so it really moved her in so many ways as well, like So powerful to bring tears.

So  that is just a tiny little introduction of Jacqueline. She is also a doula  and just a powerhouse. She runs the Akeanu Birth Foundation, which I'll have her talk about. And she's just opened up a new wellness center in the Ashland, Oregon area.  So, enough of a Jaclyn intro. Jaclyn, hi! Thank you so much for coming back on the show.

I love, love, love getting to chat with you.  Thank you so much. It is an honor to be here. I do love our conversations. They're often a lot of fun and it was, it was really great.  Like, I love being in the trenches with, um, new mamas. And so, that apothecary mama session was so awesome to really be able to connect with the, The Mamas in your, your group.

And so thank you for having me and having me back. Like, I feel like this is, this is a big honor. I know, I can't believe it. I can't believe, like, I've never had anybody back on a second time. No, no particular reason. Like, my guests are fantastic, but I was just excited to get you back on too. Yeah,  Yeah, you are so welcome and you are so amazing at the things that you do and I wonder if you could just share a little bit about your journey for anybody who wasn't able to be at that class or tune into the last episode and just like, who are you and how did you get to be such a A beautiful, powerful human being. 

Ah, first, I cannot take credit for all of those things. Um, my life has been chock full of so many experiences and so many people.  Um, a lot of love, a lot of not so loving things. That have contributed to, um, the woman that I am in front of you. And so, um, when it comes to this doula work and connecting and community, um, that's something that happened very organically for me at 19 years old.

And so that doula baby will be 22 in June, this upcoming June. So 22 years ago, um, I found myself supporting a friend. Um, I didn't call myself a doula. I didn't know what doulas were. Um, I experienced  a lot of secondary trauma in that, in that birth experience, um, for that person. And of course, it doesn't supersede at all what they experienced in that, but it really igni it ignited a fire  in me.

One that said, um, I'm going to be there for the people that I love. I'm going to be there for the people in my community in the birthing space. And so I started attending births. Um.  All of them.  Feed, aromatherapy,  food, like whatever it took, I wanted to love on, um, advocate for and support the people, um, in my life that were having babies.

And so fast forward to 11  years ago, um, I had someone approach me and say, Hey, I think you would make a great doula. You should come to this training. And I was like,  I don't catch babies. Sorry. No, it's not my thing. And they're like, Oh no, that's a midwife. We don't catch babies. And the more I learned about it, the more I realized that it had been the work that I was already doing.

And I was like, huh, okay. So I wound up taking the core, the, I think it was like a two or three day weekend course in person and fell in love and actually started pursuing birth work as a career path.  Now, prior to that, it was. All love, all passion, no funds. And so, after that, I was like, oh my god, like, people do this?

Like, they live off of this? They're able to go on vacations with their children with this? Like, what?  And, um,  that was, Buddha Bump was my first birth based business.  And then,  I was doing Buddha Bump part time while I had a full time corporate day job.  Um, I had a backup doula that I partnered with. And then, um, my company moved me to Denver, Colorado. 

Then I moved to Denver and honestly, I want to give a shout out to, um, the friends that I met, the people that I met in Denver  on the East Coast in Maryland where I was from, I was attending primarily, um, hospital births.  And the home birth community was vibrant, but it was very much so underground. And so anyone that was supporting moms with, um, empowered birth, making their own decisions that were best for their family, they were being penalized  from the top to the bottom, from the midwives to the doulas to the families.

And so,  Coming from a background where that birthing community of home birthers was very underground, very highly, you know, penalized when I moved to Denver, and it was like, Oh, my God, you know, home birth here, birth center there, even the hospital, some of the hospitals were just very, um,  More open than anything that I had ever seen, and that changed the trajectory for me, um, how I was able to interact with birth, how I was able to interact with my clients, and it really was a very expanding experience for me as a birth worker, and so alongside all of this is, um, I'm a creative.

I was traveling and singing and,  um, goodness gracious,  jazz, the blues, all kinds of And just kind of enjoying my life in that way and, um, just on a really intense healing journey. I myself experienced postpartum depression with my second daughter, um, in 2009. That almost took me out. It was really, really rough.

And I had to create.  I had to write. I had to sing. I had to dance. I had to move  my way out of that. I had to do, you know, um, an elimination diet of sorts and really, you know,  shit down to bare bones to try to get myself back coming out of that situation. And so when I moved to Denver after that, I really had this plethora of perspective.

From different backgrounds, from a creative background, from a healing perspective, as well as from my experiences, um, in birth work and what I had witnessed. And so  everything that I'm doing now, whether it's the nonprofit or the for profit Akeone Birth Foundation or Akeone Limited, it's all with the understanding of like, what do we really need?

What does holistic support look like? What does that look like for birth workers? What does it look like for healthcare workers that come into contact with  families? What does it look like for families that are seeking advocacy and support for themselves? And so that's just  a little bit about, you know, my trajectory.

I think I shared with you before, um, my grandmother passed in 2020  and  I had all these things in me that were just sitting.  And. We was giving away all these ideas and encouraging everyone around me to do all the things and I wasn't doing those things for myself and I didn't feel like I was  living my life to the fullest or I wasn't creating impact at a level that I felt I had in my heart to do.

And so that was the beginning of, of.  Acquia New Birth Foundation being born ultimately in 2021 and really studying the families that I had supported and saying, Oh my gosh, they have the same two issues coming up.  Doesn't matter if I'm supporting a wealthy family or a low income family. They are all struggling with mental health after they have a baby.

They're all struggling with meal support after they have a baby.  This is a thing. We need to, to meet this need somehow. And so that's how, um, Acquia New Birth Foundation was born.  That is, it's such an incredible story and journey and I get to catch different pieces of it every time I hear you speak about it.

So that's such a joy and an honor. Um, I do have a question. What does Akeanu mean? How did you come up with that name? I didn't  come up with, right? Right? So, um, I had a dream.  And, um, in that dream,  I just saw this vision of, um, gosh, all kinds of support. I saw gardens, I saw meditation spaces, I saw herbs, I saw families, I saw all these things, and they were new families, and some people were pregnant, walking around, and, and I was like,  when I woke up, and then it was like, akionu, and I was like, what?

And  so,  I'm like, okay, and so then I had to research, because I've never heard of an akionu, what is that? And so, um.  As I was researching the etymology of the word, and in the root of the words, pulling from all the definitions that I found, um, the consistent meanings were wise, intuitive, and thoughtful.  And I was like,  that makes sense because all of these things that were happening in this dream, um, were pretty wise, intuitive, and thoughtful ways that our community should be operating in to support each other, um, all along these stages of family and life giving.

And so.  That's it. I wish I could take credit that it was some kind of like,  you know, awakened thought, like when I was awake and I just said, Oh, Akeanu, that's dope. This is what it means. But that's how it happened. I think that this is even more powerful. Like, it came to you in your dreams. Like, that is incredible.

I've had a few things come to me in my dreams, and those are the most powerful things that have ever led me in my life. So what a blessing. And  I think it's such a blessing to so many. So I want to hear. Maybe you could share with the listeners, like,  we've, we've talked a little bit about Akeanu, but, but what is it?

I know your story is incredible, and it's led you to this, but how is Akeanu making a difference? So many ways. 

Providing meal support and group sessions for families through the, the nonprofit. And so we have what we call our True Wisdom Postpartum Circles, um, they are going to be launching in our new space, which I'll get to a little later, um, starting in March. And so with our True Wisdom Postpartum Circles, those are an opportunity for new mamas to come.

And to go through a six week curriculum where we really delve into their birth story, we delve into some of the challenges that they may have, and we are going through relational support, all of these curate, there's a specific curriculum for each week, and we're giving a space for them to share, but it's also not just led from the curriculum standpoint, but it's also peer. 

Now it's ongoing and it's monthly, but we found that providing meals for the families that come is also something that brings joy and it really helps to facilitate this openness. So I'm going to take a step back a little bit. We talked about six weeks of meal support.  Everyone has a story, a memory, something that is centered around food.

If it's your grandma's cookies, or her pie that she cooked, or something specific, food means a lot to us. And so, in our programming, what we found is It's nice to give people a CSA box. It's nice to give people, you know, a couple of meals from Factor or some Grubhub certificates. Obviously, it's impactful for their personal needs, but there's something about coming together.

In sharing food in the moment of healing, in the moment of gathering, that we found to be very effective. And so during our truism postpartum circles, we are providing food to the families in that moment. So they're having a rich, warming, postpartum friendly meal. You know, one of my go to favorites is always gonna be my chickpea coconut curry.

That is going to be always on one of those meals.  I really love to have the berries and the fruits and the chocolate because I want to produce oxytocin.  I want everyone in this space to be just very free, vulnerable, loving, so that they're receptive to the information that they're receiving. And they're able to really let it settle in their heart. 

So moving forward, um, in this particular space, we are going to be opening a food and diaper pantry for parents that have children under one year old.  The idea there is  children do the most.  They waste a lot.  They also eat a lot and they cost  a lot. And when you think about what causes people stress, we stress about our family, our family's well being.

We stress about The basic needs, things that you would hope that  one wouldn't have to worry about, but when you look at Maslow's Hierarchy of Needs, food and shelter are some of the most basic things that we need. And so our idea here is that while we have the workshops and the classes and the childbirth education, that also having a quarterly and sometimes monthly event where people can just come in.

And get the diapers that they need, get the little squeezy packs of food that they need that might be a little bit more expensive for them. Get the support that they need in a loving environment, that again, that's something that has a positive impact on their mental health.  It's something that can ease, it'll be one less thing to stress about.

So that's another way we have shifted a little bit in our, in our mission, is to really um, provide people.  with that pantry support so that they can come in and take what they need. Take, you know, if your whole family is allergic to carrots and I give you a box full of carrots and say, but it's a vegetable, you should be really happy.

That's not helpful for you. And so I do think that there is, um, a necessity in honoring people that have needs, uh, low income folks, giving them a sense of honor when they are in these positions of need, and that they, they feel like they have an element of choice, and that they can advocate for themselves through choice, and what it is that they are securing for their family.

And so that's another, um, service and offering that Aki Onubre Foundation, um, has available in this space. It's, it's so incredible hearing all that you offer to these people, it's,  I say this every time I talk to you because it is so inspiring and so beautiful and loving and kind and generous and you can hear the healing in your voice, that just presence of it everywhere, and you're so right that those beginning years of parenthood While beautiful are also very, very challenging and stressful and it's the feeding and it's the  expenses that you think you've planned for.

But oh wait, oh wait, maybe you missed out on some of those. So to have that access to help, especially for the low income people, but you're right, high income people are dealing with the mental health factors as well. No matter who it is, it's a challenge. So,  that is incredibly beautiful. And I know that when we first talked, you didn't have this new space that you're currently in.

You're now in Ashland, Oregon, which is such a fun town. I'd love to say that we're in the same state, but we're on completely opposite ends of the state. Still a good five, six hour drive from one another. Um, but yeah, let's chat about the space and Akeanu, like where else do you reach? Where else is this organization  helping so many families? 

So we have a for profit, um, company by the same name, Akeonu Limited, and we have a maternal wellness hub here in downtown Ashland. And so in this space, this is where we're getting into the childbirth education, we're getting into the community events, um, we have a birth worker roundtable that's coming up, where it's really like a maternal wellness space for, for nurses, birth workers, midwives to come.

Thank you. And talk about the challenges that the local community is facing and how we can support each other in effecting change, whether that's through legislation, whether that's through support services, whether that's through programming, how can we support and make, um, some ripples of change locally.

Other things, um, we have an innovation hub where we are telling, uh, stories of families.  It is extremely therapeutic for people to actually be able to speak about what they've experienced for some people, right? But we've also found that when people are talking about, like, postpartum depression or the postpartum experience, people get this, like, glazed over look where they're like, Huh,  I didn't know it was  Like that or that bad.

And when you tell people stories or you allow them to tell their own stories, excuse me, and you give them a place to share, it allows people to really see and hear differently what that experience can look like for so many others. And so through the media aspect, and through the storytelling aspect, the idea is to bring attention to what it looks like in the subtle and the overt ways to gain attention to make.

A difference in legislation to make a difference in how we offer services based upon how people are sharing their being affected.  Some of the other things that we're offering, um, is an evidence based birth childbirth education program, which is four to six weeks if you want to do the accelerated version or if you want to do the full scale version, um, for parents to come in and go through a full childbirth education training that prepares them in advocacy, it prepares them with comfort measures, it prepares them for the physiology of what they're going to experience in childbirth. 

On the other side Um, what I really love as well is that we're offering professional upskill training for people that interact with the maternal health demographic to come in and to gain skills about how to interact better, how to teach advocacy to the people that they're interacting with, to learn comfort measures.

A lot of nurses are not doulas. And so if they have folks coming in that maybe don't have support, we want to empower those nurses, um, that work in L& D to support those people at a higher level as well.  The other thing, um, that is very important to me as a birth worker and as a mom is filling my own cup.

And so we also have, um, programming that is specifically geared towards nourishing the nurturer. And so having breathwork sessions, teaching parents as well as professionals, the tools to really reset their bodies in a  somatic release, so that as we're going through and supporting these families, sometimes we're experiencing secondary trauma,  tertiary trauma,  all kinds of trauma.

Sometimes it could be firsthand as well. And so how do we get rid of that?  How do we make sure that we're our best selves so that we can serve better? And so we have a bunch of programming as well for professionals and families to actually give them tools. Now those are going to be, um, hosted and done by  people that are professionals in that, in that zone. 

And so a lot of that is through community partners where we're having folks come in and teach the workshops, provide the tools to our community, um, and host their workshops and classes here in this space. And so ultimately, um, the space is huge. It's a 4, 000 square foot space, um, that's upstairs, um, of,  Goodness, I don't know.

Probably the Irish Pub. I think we're above them.  We're between the Irish Pub and Blue Togo, which has great, great food. Delicious.  But  we want people to come in and offer their workshops and classes that could make life better and put more tools in the hands of families and the people who serve them.

And so it's a bit two fold in that regard. I am very I'm keenly aware at how much I've burnt out over the last few years, um, specifically the more recent years and how much I've needed community. I've needed advocacy and I've needed to be poured  into just as much as  the parents that I've served. And so our goal is just to be that space where people know they can come here.

They're going to be fed, always.  They're going to walk away with some food.  Walk away with the tool that empowers them and nourishes them, whether it's a family or if it's a professional that serves families.  It's so beautiful. And as I hear you speak about it, like, The list of people, labor and delivery nurses I know and doulas and midwives, I'm like, I've got to tell them about it.

I've got to tell them about it. It's truly amazing. And I can't wait till I can make that  six or seven hour drive down there because I also need to be in that nurturing, loving space and just release and heal.  Yeah,  absolutely.  So yeah, it's, um.  It's a beautiful space and we, it wasn't even, it's kind of like that dream I told you about, right?

Because someone else asked me, like, oh, you've, you've been so hard at work and you've been,  opening a healing space has been a dream of mine from since I experienced postpartum depression in 2009.  When I came out of that deep depression, Um, and I have like an old notebook. I'll show you. I had the name for it.

I think it was called Lotus Palm Healing Center. And I had like, oh, we're going to have dance classes. We're going to have this. We're going to have that. And children will be welcome. And  like I had this whole thing because I was missing that in my life.  And so  this healing space coming to fruition is not even a new  dream. 

You know,  it's, I definitely know almost what, 15 years old at this point.  And so, although it's evolved and we are catering and looking at maternal wellness and maternal health as, as the, the focus, it's open to community members to host their. Um, just last night we had a book club in for, um,  a group of, of women to really just have a space curated just, um, to read the books and, and, and eat the chocolate and laugh and giggle and talk through life and, and that's what it's about.

It could be something like that, that just adds  to our community members. And so that's the thing that I think excites me most and that I'm for, like,  eternally grateful for is that it's. It's just  the manifestation of an old dream.  It's the  blot of a seed that was planted so many years ago. I can so relate to that on so many levels.

Like, um, I don't know if you know, but I used to run an herbal product line and the seed to that was planted. in the early  2000s. And it was because I wanted to create a natural first aid kit for outdoor adventure seekers. And I wanted it to be in all the backpacks and camping gear and in REI. And 18 years later, I got into REI.

And in that process, I also wanted a space in my community, similar to yours, but not so birth focused, but definitely healing.  And so I opened up an apothecary tea and smoothie shop where the food was incredibly nourishing and I knew that nobody would come in for herbs, they would just think I was selling marijuana or something and they didn't know what herbs were and  I could bring them in with smoothies and soups and things like that and then teach them about the herbs that could go into their bodies and That turned into a beautiful space where people would come in and teach classes like yoga, I taught tons of classes there, making your own nut milks, how to nourish yourself, we did painting parties, and like, it just became this beautiful healing space, and when people would walk in the door, they'd just Their shoulders would drop and they'd get this peaceful smile on their face and just say, Wow, I feel better just walking in here.

And I bet everybody does that in your space, Jacqueline.  It's, I'm grateful. We have just had a few people in this space. We're doing our soft launch, um, March 9th, actually. And so, we've just kind of been introducing people into the space slowly. One of the lessons I learned is like,  I'm just not in the phase of life  to do things grand  and big  and fast.

I'm over it. I'm done. I think that's a lesson I am starting to learn now. Thankfully, like, I need to learn that one because I am habitually a go, go, go, go, do it, more, more, more, big kind of  person and  now at 45, I'm like, why,  why am I stressing myself out so much? What am I in a rush for? What about that state of peace that I want?

You know? Um, so, I hear you and feel you on that phase of life and I commend you.  for recognizing and acting on that slowness and that peacefulness and knowing that it's going to build and evolve just as it needs to. It's beautiful. Yeah, and I, you know what, it's,  I spent so much time and I love when my mentees You know, they'll text me and they'll be like, Oh, remember you said this or this is what I'm experiencing now with my clients and they remind me of my words and I'm like, Ooh, child, I  said that, you know, and it's so many times  I've talked about the.

Blossoming of birth and, and easing into it and not pushing it. We tell moms all the time. When the baby is ready to come, you're not like,  baring down and ejecting the baby. No, it's a gentle blossoming and opening that takes place. And at this point,  this is my baby. And I am gently letting it blossom. And, and I'm opening slowly.

Um. With ease, but with intentionality so that  I'm not injured in the process and the baby is healthy and so those beautiful lessons that you see like, Oh my goodness, I spent all these years telling these people these things and even though this is another area of life, you know, it's business and it's a space.

I'm not physically pregnant in this moment. It still applies  and it's still sick.  And  that's always It's fun to have your birds come back and, and, you know, remind you of what needs to be done.  I love that. I love that so much. I love what you're doing with Ake Onu Birth Foundation so much that it's one of the beneficiaries of the Holistically Healthy Families Summit, which is coming up, like, when this episode comes out, the summit will be happening.

So if you're listening to this and you haven't registered for the summit, do it now. Jacqueline does have a presentation in there. It's postpartum is forever. And goodness, again, like,  The healing power and energy of Jaclyn's Presence, if you haven't heard it yet through this episode, definitely shines in that lesson as well.

So, um, I'm just so excited about it and I'm so honored that I have been able to connect with you. I can't even remember exactly how we connected, but I know I was on  What's that? Postpartum in the Raw. Yeah, I knew it was through your podcast, but I was like  Where did we connect on that? Was it like looking for podcast guests or?

I  think there's, um, like a Facebook group where they, where you, uh, find a guest, be a guest or something. And I was just like, Hey, and I think your assistant was like, I have. One that I think would be great. And then she tagged you and then the rest is history. The rest is beautiful history. Yeah, that is, that is amazing.

Um, do you want to share a little bit more about your presentation at the summit or anything along those lines?  Yeah, I mean, so,  My philosophy, um,  in life, in business, as a doula, as a mom, is it takes a mind, body, and spirit, um, connection. Like, it takes a mind, body, and spirit healing. It takes a mind, body, and spirit effort to be where we want to be.

And in my presentation, um, for this beautiful summit, it was really a joy. Right? To remind, right? Cause I don't want to act like everything I'm saying, no one ever knows. And they've never heard before, but a beautiful reminder that when we're talking about healing and we're talking about snapping back and we're talking about getting back out there, getting back to myself, that that is a fully. 

embodied experience. It's something that takes place in your mind. It's something that takes place in your body, in your spirit. And if you focus on one and not the other, or two and not the third, or one and not the other two, you are going to be inherently out of balance no matter how good you look. And so it was really a beautiful opportunity because it's the holistic family, right?

Holistic Healthy Family Summit, and we could be tempted to focus only on the physical in those spaces.  We could be tempted to ignore, um, the mind and the spirit aspects of disease,  right? And We could be tempted to think that  I'll get to that later. And so it was really a joy to, to create that presentation and to deliver it.

Um, just as a reminder, I have a, um, a book coming out later this year for doulas or anyone really. But, um, it is a doula's guide to improving maternal health for BIPOC women. And the book is written in the same, with the same perspective.  You cannot show up for other people in the way that you need to without taking care of your mind, your body, and your spirit. 

We can't give birth in a healthy way without taking care or being mindful and intentional of our mind, body, and spirit. We can't raise these children, my goodness, without focusing  and just like understanding like they are whole beings.  We have to nourish them fully and so it was really a joy to, to speak to the group and to the folks that are in the summit, um, if you're listening right now and you're just like, eh, I don't know,  it's free, honey, sign up, it's amazing, uh, Mel, you did a phenomenal job getting Aw, thank you. 

They're together. I'm over here like, Oh, I can't wait. So it's like, it's phenomenal. I am so impressed and so  honored and grateful to be among the list of speakers that you have. But yes, it's amazing. And to be offered for free.  I think it's phenomenal. I know that we all have goodies and the natural family toolkit for people to, to, you know, add on, but I think that it's an amazing offering.

I think that, um, yeah.  Identifying and speaking about the importance  of integrated healing and integrated approach in everything we do. It's something that it was a pleasure to bring that perspective  to the postpartum folks that'll be on the summit. So, thank you. Yeah. Oh, thank you. Thank you so much. And I agree.

The, the speaker lineup is incredible. And I felt the need to bring this together because of course. You see me on social media or you listen to the Herbalist's Path podcast. I talk about herbal medicine all of the time, which is incredible, right? But without proper nutrition, without nourishing our mental health and all of the other aspects, as you were saying, It's The herbs aren't going to work for you, so I just felt it was  time to bring it all together, and yeah, it's been a labor of love, that's for sure, um, I'm happy to bring it to so many people for free, right? 

I'm happy that there's the option for the Natural Family Toolkit, and the incredible, generous gifts that people like you have given inside of there are really wonderful, so.  And I'm so happy that a portion of the proceeds goes back to Ake Onu Birth Foundation because what an incredible mission and what an incredible thing you have built to help so many other people.

So thank you.  And thank you for.  Um, just an amazing, um, voice. I feel like pretty much since we connected, um, and spoke a bit, you've been just very encouraging and very supportive. And I'm just grateful. So thank you.  Thank you. Right back. Like, I feel like now is that part in that the session of the show where we could just be like, gushy, gushy.

Thank you. Thank you. Over and over. But if you guys can't hear but in my throat, I'm getting over an illness and  I've talked more now than I have all week. Of course it's great because I get to do it with Jacqueline, um,  but yeah,  I have so much love for you and so much care and respect and admiration and,  uh, I really appreciate you and all that you do, Jacqueline. 

Thank you. I appreciate you as well. Yeah, I do.  I hope everybody listens to your presentation at the summit and I hope you have an amazing day. I can't wait to hear about March 9th and your, it's as a soft launch kind of opening of the space. I can't wait to hear about it.  Yes, and I'll be,  it's um, just a lot of the local healthcare workers and birth workers will be gathering together and we will be, of course, breaking bread together and we will be, you know, at  2020, it did a number on people in terms of separating us and pulling us into all of these spaces and so although I'm new to  Oregon as a whole, um, wherever I am, I,  I want to plug in and I want to be a unifying factor and force in that community.

Um, and I just think that it's important, right? Like,  go somewhere, you might as well make it better.  Might as well bring some people together. And so I'm really looking forward to what this space can and will be for the existing birth worker community and maternal health community here. Um, the valley is It's amazing.

There's a lot of amazing folks out here. Um, and I'm like, gosh, do all of these amazing folks know each other? Or are they supporting one another? Or do we have a common, um, aim  that we could all get behind and, and just make a huge difference? And so I'm really excited about what that will look like for the folks here in  Oregon and beyond.

So, yeah, I can only imagine the, the love and healing energy that's going to happen with all of those,  Birth workers and healers coming in together and just even expanding more upon the energy and love that you've already put into it, that I know is already shining and emanating outside of those building walls, so  beautiful, beautiful, beautiful, beautiful.

Jacqueline, thank you so much for being here and being on my show again and chatting with me again. I can't wait to come down and see your new space.  I can't wait for you to come. I mean that, seriously.  You're gonna let me know. I certainly will. I certainly will.  Have a great day. You too. Bye.