Life On The Farm; Wisdom & Tips On Growing The Best Herbal Medicine with Elise Higley of Oshala Farm

Ever wonder what it really takes to grow potent, high-quality herbal medicine—from the ground up? In this inspiring conversation with Elise Higley of Oshala Farm, we explore the art, science, and soul of regenerative organic herb farming.

We’ll talk about:

• How regenerative organic farming nurtures both plants and people
• The behind-the-scenes process of growing, harvesting, drying, and testing herbs
• Why sourcing herbs from small farms matters for your health—and the planet
• What it really takes to start (and sustain) a medicinal herb farm
• The magic of Herb Camp and connecting directly with plants

You’ll walk away with a deeper appreciation for where your herbal medicine comes from—and why supporting local, ethical farms is so powerful.

06:00 – The beginnings of Oshala Farm
10:00 – What “regenerative organic” really means
18:00 – Why herb quality starts in the soil
26:00 – The drying process & testing for potency
33:00 – Lessons for aspiring herb farmers
45:00 – How Herb Camp connects people & plants

Check out the full episode and show notes right here!

🌿 Ready to reconnect with the plants—and the people growing them? Come join me for

Sometimes when I step outside, I just sit in awe of the amazing medicine around me, & starting thinking of the remedies I need to make.

If you've ever felt that too, then come hang with me at the Herbal Medicine Planning Party! It's an event where we'll plan the remedies you need for the next 1-2 years. 

It's free, it's fun, and you can join the party here.

Picture yourself frolicking through beautiful fields of Calendula, Bee Balm, and other amazing medicinal plants! Now, picture yourself doing that with me, and about 150 other herb loving, passionate, brilliant people! 

That's exactly what's going to happen at Herb Camp hosted by and on Oshala Farm in southern Oregon. This is an event not to be missed & you can get your tickets right here! 🌼

Chapters

• 0:00 Introduction to Elise Higley of Oshala Farm
• 6:56 Elise's Journey into Herbal Farming
• 15:08 Regenerative Organic Certification Explained
• 22:47 Growing Practices and Herb Quality
• 30:01 The Art of Drying Herbs Properly
• 39:24 Land Stewardship and Sustainable Farming
• 49:08 Advice for Aspiring Herb Farmers
• 58:28 Herb Camp: A Gathering for Plant Lovers
• 1:07:16 Closing Thoughts and Episode Wrap-up

Transcript

Speaker 1: 1:27

Welcome to the Herbalist Path, a podcast that's all about helping herbalism spread like wildflowers. I'm Mel, a clinical herbalist, environmental educator and a mama who's been walking this path for well over 20 years. I created this show to help you feel confident with herbal medicine. You're going to get a blend of how-to episodes, incredible guest experts sharing their wisdom and real talk about using herbs every day, all to help you care for your family naturally, take better care of our precious planet and maybe even become the trusted herbalist in your own community. You see, this work isn't just about the herbs. It's about healing ourselves, it's about caring for each other and it's about living in deeper connection with the earth. So, whether you're blending your first tea, making your first tincture or feeling called to be the go-to herbalist in your community, welcome, you belong here, you are right on time and you are on the Herbalist Path. Hello, hello and welcome back to another episode on the Herbalist Path.

Speaker 1: 2:47

I am so excited and honored to have today's guest, miss Elise Higley of Oshala Herb Farm, and if you haven't heard me talk about her farm and the amazing herbs that they produce on this farm yet, then clearly you haven't been listening to me much, because I talk about them all of the time.

Speaker 1: 3:10

They are second to none and I've had the great fortune of running into Elise often over the years, like when I had my product line. We would be a lot of at a lot of the same natural products events and herb festivals and events, and she has hosted many great herb festivals and events and even has one coming up later in June Herb Camp on her farm, which we'll talk about later in the episode. I'm just giddy and excited and so happy to have Elise on the show again. If you like this show and hearing from Elise, you should definitely check out our first episode, which I think was like in 2020 when I first started this podcast, maybe right before the pandemic, maybe right after, I don't know. Anyways, elise, thank you so much for coming on the show and welcome, thank you.

Speaker 2: 4:03

Of course it's always a pleasure the show and welcome. Thank you. Of course it's always a pleasure. Yeah, yeah, it's sad that it takes scheduling podcasts to get a chance to visit with you. So this is good.

Speaker 1: 4:13

Yeah, I mean, if that's what it takes, started that's what it takes.

Speaker 2: 4:15

I'm going to make it happen.

Speaker 1: 4:17

I love it. I am so excited for this because you are one of those people like you, have this grace and this presence about you that is just so loving and so nurturing and wise and beautiful, and when I think of Elise, I'm like wow, she's amazing, and it just holds all of these great bits of wisdom that I'm so curious about, and so it really makes me want to say a question. I ask so many of my guests, but I just want to hear about little herbal Elise, and like, what first got you on this path to now run one of the best herb farms in our country?

Speaker 2: 5:04

Wow, thanks for those sweet words and kind words and that's a lot to live up to.

Speaker 1: 5:08

but it's all, it's all the heart right there is loud and true.

Speaker 2: 5:15

Well, I mean, I think my very first experience, ironically, was with my caretaker. My mom was in graduate school and I was in preschool and, or probably, I guess I was nursery school. You know, like two years old, and a woman named Annalise Schimmelfenning was a Bavarian, german woman who had a daycare, and so I was in that school with her and I just actually celebrated her passing on May 4th, the same as Cascades, which I didn't realize until this year that it was actually the same day, which is so crazy because those are two people who really had such an impact on my herbal path to have them both pass on the same day. I was with Annalise and her passing and I guess just so much I just didn't even remember at that, at that moment, that that, uh, that it was, that was the same day of Cascades passing, until this year, for some crazy reason. So was it also 2013? No, no, it was just a couple of years ago that Annalise passed. So I was, yeah, so it's been. It's been a couple of years, but it's still. You know, as you know, hopefully, people were lighting candles and altars for Cascade this May 4th and, yeah, just thinking about them, which is also I think it was Herb Day as well. So, yeah, amazing, yeah, yeah, she.

Speaker 2: 6:32

You know her experience growing up in southern Germany was using a lot of herbs, and so when we were little, things would happen to us and she would put you know different herbs on us and talk about them Not really so much like talk about their properties, but just put them on you. You know, I remember having tons of nettle and getting stung, and it was all over the school. That when she later on created a bigger school and parents would be upset when their kids would have welts on them and then she'd pick them up and she would be sick. Oh, they're so lucky, it's good for them. Some parents were excited and some parents not. Good for them. Some parents were excited and some parents not. Oh, I love it. It was great, though, but that's where my love of nettle came up, and, yeah, I think she was so proud that we were growing acres and acres of nettle.

Speaker 2: 7:19

At one point she said you wouldn't have been doing this without me and I said no, that's probably totally true.

Speaker 1: 7:23

I love that so much. One like I was born in Germany, so to hear this German herbalist is really exciting, and my background is environmental and experiential ed. I always wanted to have that like hands on education space for young kids. So she sounds amazing. Yeah, an amazing woman for sure. Yeah, and I love that you bring up nettles because so often when I think of your farm and the incredible quality of things that you guys grow there, it always brings me back to when I was running Mountain Mel's and we were making all of these teas and we would buy nettles from you and the big like giant 10 pound bags and the fact that your dried nettles still stung me and the people helping me blend teas was just so amazing. It's such a great testament to like the incredible quality and love that you guys put in your herbs.

Speaker 2: 8:17

Yeah, I mean, I think that's part of you know, as an herbalist gone to farming, that's part of what you you know your whole goal is obviously to have, like most alive, vibrant herbs that you know you would want to use yourself and spreading all that goodness out to all the other herbal lovers. So I appreciate that. I remember talking to you and you were so excited to get to get the plants and they were still stinging and yeah, oh, yeah, I still.

Speaker 1: 8:44

Yeah, it really is the best. I always have like dreams of myself having an herb farm. I could never do it on the scale that you and Jeff do, because I understand how much work goes into it or at least I, I think I do. Um, but yeah, I always dream of like being able to frolic through fields of calendula and just be like okay, helpers, I need another acre of calendula next year and you get to do that.

Speaker 2: 9:10

Yeah, it's, it's definitely. There's all those beautiful things and also all those hard things. You know, calendula is not that tall normally, and so you're bending down a lot while you're, you know, picking each flower individually. There's all those things that come into it, and so it's definitely a labor of love, for sure.

Speaker 1: 9:27

Yeah, remind yourself to just do squats all day long, walking squats.

Speaker 2: 9:32

Imagine the size of your thighs. I was joking about that the other day when we had our weekly meeting on I guess that was all of Monday and just yesterday. At this point, and just talking about when we first started farming, we were like maybe we'll end up being like a bootcamp farm because people pay to get in shape but we can't get people to work on the farm. So we'll do like you know, you can do squats and you can do jump irrigation pipe. You can do calendula, like you know. Just move while you're squatting. Maybe we can get more people to work that way and they can pay us instead of us. So I love it, just like we never really pursued it, but it was kind of a idea we like to this calendula was harvested by hand, with walking lunges.

Speaker 1: 10:19

Not only does it improve the strength of the people on the farm, but it improves the strength of the medicine. I can eat it right now. So good, I love it. That is so fun. How long ago did you guys start farming?

Speaker 2: 10:34

Tell me about that, yeah, our first. Well, we first became stewards of the land that we call Oshala Farm in 2013. So I guess it's been a bit of time. This is our 12th, 12th growing season, 12th planting season. I guess it is Um cause we came in, you know, unfortunately not inheriting land, but purchasing land that was a high price in Southern Oregon and, um, we had to come in and make our mortgage payment and make it happen, and so we came in with a bang for sure. We had a few interns and we had our kids and like 60 chicken and a bunch of beehives and I think about 250,000 starts of plants and nettle was definitely in some of those trays that we transplanted that first year. And so, yeah, we've been here for a while and since then we've expanded a bit more and now we're on 290 acres. It's all certified organic organic and then we're also regenerative certified organic. So that's been a new, a new thing with that certification the last couple years.

Speaker 1: 13:33

Yeah, we had chatted about that a few a while back. Like last time, we actually connected not on a podcast and I'd love for you to share a bit more about what regenerative organic means. And yeah, I'll just start with that.

Speaker 2: 13:47

Yeah, so regenerative organic has probably a bigger focus than certified organic on soil health and then social welfare. So, um, you know a lot of places when you're buying things that are grown from out of the country they have, you know, fair for life, but in the U S they don't have really that aspect in organic farming. So this has that aspect of social welfare aspect and probably stricter um tests and things on your soil. Um, as far as soil health and the vitality that you're really organic asks that as well, but there's not as many they're making sure you're doing it and asking you questions, but the ROC they call it regenerative organic certified is asking you to actually show your soil test data. So that's like a little bit different, I think, and that is the main thing about it. That's really different and you know we were already doing all of these things anyways, so it wasn't that difficult.

Speaker 2: 14:48

But definitely the pay scale is is hard and, like every single certification, there's ways you can weasel out of it and the name only means as much as the integrity of the people, you know, which can be frustrating for people like me that are really about a lot of justice and fairness. You can be certain levels and not pay your people more than I think that what you're supposed to do is pay at least 10% of the living wage, 10% above the living wage, what MIT figures out for you each year and unfortunately they figure that out after you make your contracts as farmers. So you don't really know what your payroll is going to be. And also you can just tell your employees that you can't afford it, which I'm kind of like. Well, if you can tell your employees you can't afford it and you're still at the same level, that's a little bit weird to me.

Speaker 2: 15:36

But so there's always little things that are, you know, little hang ups that you're like it should be more fair this way or different. But all in all, I think having some kind of social welfare point to it and they really do come and talk with all the employees who don't have some of the same education and wherewithal of you know, especially farm workers who, you know, just feel like maybe there's not other jobs and opportunities for them, and they do. They get into agriculture for those reasons. We we tend to have a really like our farm crew has been with us for the core of our team has been from us I don't know 10 years most of them, and then a few people have come, come and go and I think this time we're just hiring for the first time um for different, different positions in a in a long time.

Speaker 2: 16:23

So, pretty good, solid crew, but that comes with dedication of like offering year round work, which a lot of farms don't do. Um, because there is not the same work in the winter and if you have to add that cost, it adds to the cost of the product. So we have to include that in the cost of what we sell. And that's hard when you're competing with the international world, when labor is sometimes what people are paying in an hour. Well, we pay in an hour sometimes what people are paying in a week. Yeah, it's really. And then you know times, all the people on your farm. It really is. It's a lot.

Speaker 2: 16:59

So, yeah, so that's. But we decided to go with the ROC just because we wanted people to know that we were doing all those things and we wanted to support the movement. I think it is important for people to be aware that you really can make a difference, paying attention to soil health, and it's important to people that are growing your herbs more than anything, because it's you know, like you were saying, the energetics of an herb that you get. You know you can feel that, and so you want to make sure that people are being, you know, treated with the utmost respect.

Speaker 1: 17:28

Yeah, absolutely, I love hearing that story. I think I don't think I really recognized how much of it went to social welfare as well. Like that is incredibly beautiful and I can imagine how absolutely stoked your workers are to work for you. Like I could just imagine having having Jeff and Elise as your bosses. Would just be a beautiful, beautiful thing.

Speaker 2: 17:51

And I'm sure I'm sure it depends on who you talk to in the day.

Speaker 1: 17:53

But you know, I mean that's life, right, I went for myself and I don't always like my boss either. Yeah, I mean that's, that's really just beautiful. And it's not something that I have really heard about outside of you. And I mean, I don't know how many times I can say how amazing the quality of your herbs are, but it shines through in so many different ways and I remember, like not that I wouldn't tell people, but when I ran Mountain Mel's and I would get my herbs for my teas from you guys that was like my secret sauce why people were always like, hey, your, your teas are so much better than anything I've ever had. And I'm like, yeah, it's because good medicine starts in the dirt. And, um, yeah, so thank you, thank you so much for all that cool work. And I love one thing that you stated. It was one simple statement that you became stewards of the land in 2013.

Speaker 2: 18:55

Not, we started farming here, you know, and just we own the land, we own on it, we owe on it, yeah, yeah, I mean, we don't owe anything or own anything, really do we? It's all temporary, so exactly.

Speaker 1: 19:06

Yeah, just a beautiful, beautiful little piece I wanted to bring back up again. Thanks, yeah, of course, and I can just, like I reflect back on. Maybe I thought that you guys were around longer than 2013, because I'm pretty sure that we were hanging out at little herb festivals and other events during that time and I remember you looking like you were working as hard as I was, if not harder. We were just so tired like, but yet on that big, big mission, and I just I can only imagine how much has gone into it and thinking about how I've seen you guys evolve over the years and showing up to all the greatest events there are for these kinds of things and really standing in that truth of love and respect for the land, love and respect for people, love and respect for this entire planet.

Speaker 1: 20:04

It's, it's beautiful, it just makes my heart happy to think about it. It really, really does. So, yeah, of course, I know we've talked a little bit about nettles and I also always think about your chamomile and how beautiful it is, but I wonder if you could just share some of the herbs that you guys do grow on your farm, because I know they're not all the herbs you can't like be mountain rose herbs, because you're not importing everything. You're making all this medicine from the land that grows in Oregon.

Speaker 2: 20:37

Yeah, it does. It does differentiate us, I think, being a farm who only sells what we grow. So we have that, you know, intimate relationship from the seed to, you know, transplanting it, tending it, harvesting it, drying it, processing and saving seed again for the following year or whatever it is. If it's a perennial, we're not going to plant it, maybe for a couple of years, so, but we are in a one-stop shop for sure, you know. And it's kind of nice too, though, because it gives people the opportunity to be like, oh, where's cinnamon on your website or where's so-and-so? And you're like, oh well, that doesn't grow in this region, and it kind of gets people to realize what grows in this region and what doesn't. I mean, we do try, you know. As you know, farming is challenging enough as it is, so we try not to do too many challenging things, but we do grow things that are not necessarily native to this area that we can grow, like ashwagandha, for instance, or Tulsi. We will grow it as an annual crop versus a perennial crop, like Tulsi could be in some, you know, in India it could be a perennial crop, where here it can't be. So we have saved our seed over decades and we also, you know, and Jeff always my husband and farming partner, will say like you know, we really learn so much from people like Mark Wheeler that used to own Pacific botanicals. You know, have been saving seeds for decades in our region and so we've definitely benefited from a lot of people's work that have done some of these things before us. But there is also not a lot of data for yield for a farm farming in particular and herb seeds. There's not a lot of regulation on germination so you could buy a bunch of seed and plant not a lot of regulation on germination so you could, you know, buy a bunch of seed and plant it out and hardly get any germination which can really affect your, your farm if you're trying to make a living selling herbs and trying to be a reliable source for people and then you don't have any. So, um, yeah, but we do grow. I think we have 93 different crops on our list this year.

Speaker 2: 22:34

I just am actually working on the regenerative certified renewal this last two weeks. It's like pulling hair, all this paperwork. It's kind of ironic. You know, we have to do all the organic paperwork, all the regenerative organic certification paperwork, and then if you're a farmer who sprays, you don't have to do anything and you have to pay for it. Ew, it's crazy. It's like, wow, you't have to do anything and you have to pay for it. No, crazy, it's like, wow, you really have to work hard to do the good work, I know, I know and pay for it. So, yeah, anyways, I know I think that all farmers that spray should just pay. So, yeah, better, because we have to deal with the consequences anyways yeah, they should have to pay for ruining the land.

Speaker 1: 23:14

Come on, you big jerks. I remember that was. I commend you so much because when I did run Mountain Mills I would source from people like you and had very high standards for what I put in there but I was never able to get certified organic because of the cost barrier. And you know I could see where your frustration would lie in others that don't do the work and do the things that that it takes to get that certification and taking it really seriously, and still are out there like peddling it as if they have done that work yeah, yeah, I mean, and the nice thing is too, there are, you know, hopefully we'll see how long it lasts.

Speaker 2: 23:57

But there are reimbursement programs for organic. You just have to fill out the paperwork and make sure you do it on a timely manner. So there are sometimes 50 to 80 reimbursement costs after you do it, obviously not for your time but for the fee, which is super helpful. So I think time is more of an excuse why people might not do it, but I wouldn't say cost of the actual certificate is should be a reason why people would say they wouldn't do it. Yeah, because the fee actually will get. You know, you'll get some reimbursement for that. Fundings there, that's cool. Yeah, I seem to miss the deadline every year.

Speaker 1: 24:31

That's what I would do. That's what I do Because I I was thought I was superwoman in those days and like I would do. That's what I would do, cause I, I was thought I was super woman in those days and like I could do all the things in that business. But no, it's really clear. Um, but I did want to talk about one thing, because you brought up Mark Wheeler, uh, pacific botanicals, and it took me back to when I was at herb camp last time and I got to take an herb walk with Jeff, I believe at that time I was still running Mountain Mel's and I've always had a dream, like I said, of my own little herb farm. And so I'm like, yeah, let me hear what Jeff has to say.

Speaker 1: 25:08

And he really talked a lot about how much he learned from Mark and from the people over at Pacific Botanicals. And it really, really struck me, because there were so many times when I would always go to your guys's website first and see what I could get and what I couldn't get. I'd then go to Pacific Botanicals and what I couldn't get there I'd then go to Mountain Rose and that was like my ordering process all of the time, but there were times when I would order lemon balm from you and I would order lemon balm from Pacific Botanicals, and it's back to the incredible. The difference, like you guys, are what? 20 miles from each other, if that or something, something along those lines?

Speaker 1: 25:58

not that much yeah yeah, and I would open up a bag of Pacific Botanicals lemon balm and do the organoleptic testing and smell everything and like it would have like a faded green to it and it would smell kind of lemony. And then I would open up a bag of lemon balm from you guys and I could see the shapes of the serrated edges of the lemon balm leaves and I could be like that is definitely a lemon balm leaf and the scent would just permeate my whole 2,500 square foot space and it was just like, oh, lemon balm is here here and it was this deep, dark green. It was like mind-blowingly different and I just found it so amazing to me listening to Jeff say how much he learned from them and what great mentors they were. Yet here you guys come along, you're like sweet, we took what they learned and let us go. How do you like these herbs now? Like such such a huge difference?

Speaker 2: 27:00

Yeah, we always joke that there's a lot of opportunity to ruin crops in the way of you know, because you know you seed everything. If you don't water correctly, then you transplant or maybe you're planting directly in the ground, which we try and do as much as we can, but our season does limit us to things like that. And then you know, you're cultivating and growing these herbs and you're making sure you're taking care of them and they don't get lost in the weeds, so there's enough growth, and then you harvest them and you have to get them, you know, and then you dry them and in the drying process is really a great chance to ruin stuff. So that is a lot. I mean, we have invested that's probably our biggest well, a lot of things. But we've invested millions of dollars into our dryers and you know we're still paying those things bills off. But we felt like that was the thing of having that background of being an herbalist and growing stuff on a smaller scale, growing herbs on a smaller scale for our own product line of teas. It was like we don't want to, we want we. I wanted to send out what I would just be like I want you to be blown away when you get this bag of herbs, Right, so it's like I want to know that it's as good as what you could have grown yourself, and maybe you just didn't have the time or the land or whatever it was, and so we've really kept with that.

Speaker 2: 28:15

And you know, many times, like you said, we're hand harvesting, we're hand garbling, we de-stem everything, like the like the aerial parts were de-stemming, instead of doing a cut sift, which is where it goes through a guillotine chopper of the whole aerial part that a plant was harvested. So you are getting all those major stems in there and In a cut sift. You wouldn't notice that because they're so small, like small cut, but that's, I think, what makes things differentiate. But again, so much loss. You know, like sometimes we have 80% when we're garbling out yarrow. You know all of that is lost in the process, which I, you know I do believe there's some good medicine in that stem as well, but it's just a different potency and different vibrancy. So, um, you know we're not for everyone. We try and try. I mean I just think we've discovered that over the years, right, like we're not going to be everybody's cup of tea, but yeah, everybody's cup of tea, Exactly, but, um, but we do.

Speaker 2: 29:15

Yeah, our biggest kind of love is just to get to connect with people who really like open up those bags like you know, like you do, and they're just so excited and that you do and want to have that connection of those plans and know what they are and be like, oh yes, I got stung by this metal.

Speaker 1: 29:32

Yeah, I know I get super excited about it. Oh my gosh, yay, my workers are like exactly why can you have gloves please? Where are they? Can you tell me what we're making?

Speaker 1: 29:44

whatever comes in metal, so I can wear long sleeves and all my armor, exactly, yes, yes, I can't why. I'm like, oh, sting me. Um, that's such a such a nerd, such a nerd. Yeah, that is amazing. Well, congratulations, you have succeeded in that dream and mission in all of the ways of getting people that are so excited by the quality that you create. And it brings me to another thing that you just said.

Speaker 1: 30:12

Actually, one of my students the other day she used to live in Oregon but recently bought some land in Michigan and she has been learning so much about herbalism lately and she just ordered a bunch of stuff from Mountain Rose and she posted about it and she was like, oh, people think I'm lazy because I've got yarrow and dandelion on my land and you know why don't you just go out and harvest it? And I was like, well, is your time worth anything? Because it takes a lot of freaking time and effort to go out and to grow your plants, to harvest your plants, to then make medicine out of these plants. And, and I think you know I I just wanted to justify to her that it's okay to purchase them. I also should have been like you should have gone to Oshala first.

Speaker 2: 31:02

Maybe they got it from us.

Speaker 1: 31:04

I know right Some of the things that she got. I don't.

Speaker 2: 31:13

I do really appreciate that. About Mountain Roses I don't know if you noticed on their website now they have this new sustainability dial so you can see what's grown in the US and what's not, because I don't think they ship outside of the US anymore. So if you're buying in the US, it's going to have a really low carbon footprint and I really appreciate that. They are definitely trying to get customers, because you know they have a gazillion more customers than we do, right, you know, and people do really appreciate being able to buy one place and get the shipping probably at a lower cost than a small company like we would. We would get, you know, they just do bigger volume. So it's great that they are now being even more transparent with that so you as a customer can go to their site and realize, oh, and it also probably says us grown as well, you know, so people can think about okay, well, and I think, like you're saying, if somebody I mean it's like everything in life.

Speaker 2: 32:11

You know, I was joking with somebody today when I was like, yeah, last year I had like the loser garden of my life, like I don't even think I didn't even have a tomato plant. It's the first time in my life, I think, even as a kid, where I didn't have tomatoes and I was like, but I also have so many amazing veg farmers around me Like I don't need to do everything. You know what I mean. And also when I acknowledge that I'm also bringing somebody else up, like I don't need to do it all, and so somebody who's focusing on doing these amazing herbal products, as long as they're focusing on sourcing really great medicine because, like you said, your product is only as good as the ingredients you use. Right, you may have an amazing blend, a great formula, but if your herbs don't have any vitality to them, they're not going to be as good as they would if you had amazing herbs in there. But you know you're also bringing other people up.

Speaker 2: 33:01

If people don't buy domestic herbs from Mountain Rose or don't support herbs like Oshala farms, like Oshala farm, then you know we'll, we all won't be in business anymore and then we won't have that resource to go and get herbs that we want. I mean, I think that's what happened for so many decades. That's why there are not very many farms in the US. Then when we started farming, you know, 12 years ago, oshala I mean Jeff's been farming vegetable farming for I don't know. I guess it's been like 20 years now.

Speaker 2: 33:30

I mean, yeah, I guess I don't know how old we are. It's been 10 years now. I, you know there were hardly other. It was like, you know, pacific botanicals and herb farm and trout Lake, and there were really a bunch of other farms growing. And then it was like now there's tons of little places popping up, which is great to see because that's the demand. You know. More people in the U S are saying hey, we want to know who and how these herbs are being grown. We want to, you know, grow them ourselves or we want to buy them from somebody in our region, and that's beautiful. I think that's great and it's going to make our herbal medicine work a whole lot better and then we're all going to be healthier. So Absolutely.

Speaker 2: 34:11

I love that and and agree with it in all the ways, obviously, but it brings Don't feel bad about not doing it all, I guess, is our main thing, right.

Speaker 1: 34:20

Yeah, exactly, and the fact that you are supporting so many other ways and people and the whole ecosystem of it all, it is so incredibly important. And as we talk, like today, people will be like, well, I can't order from those small farms because they're too expensive. Okay, great, but you get what you pay for. Also, there's that piece and you know just hearing you talk about all of the certifications and all of the paperwork and how delicate your process of harvesting hand by hand and doing all of those calendula lunges and all of that stuff goes into that and it's so freaking worth it. Like I'm pretty excited.

Speaker 1: 35:09

I'm at this year where I think last time we might have had a good talk. I was like I can't buy any herbs. I have such an abundance of medicine from when I closed my apothecary and my product line down that I was like somebody please take these herbs, I have too many herbs. But this year it's time. It's time to like re-up my whole bunches of stuff but not on the scale that I did, and more for my family and close community. So I'm excited for that piece and I just went on a little bit of a tangent.

Speaker 1: 35:41

I really wanted to emphasize the importance of supporting these small farmers. And another thing that I hear often from some of my students and other people out there is a desire to grow herbs and become a small herb farmer and again, it's my desire or dream. I don't know that that will ever happen for me. I just love the picture of it and I'd love, I'd love, to hear some Elise wisdom for those people that are like, yeah, I would love to grow herbs, because I do feel like we need more small herb farmers out there. That's where you're going to get the best quality you know as local as you can get to you Sweet, and then beyond there you find the other amazing, like bioregional herbalists, and then you know if you need to go beyond there, great, keep doing it, but supporting those small herb farmers. I'd love to hear some wisdom or some insight for those that aspire to step into similar shoes.

Speaker 2: 36:48

Sure, I mean, I think, um, before I say something I just want to circle back but also has to do kind of with your question is that producing growing food and herbal medicine is not cheap? No, if you're doing it the way, most of us listening to you right now want it to be grown right. I want to have diversity on the farm. Oh, I don't want them using plastic on the farm. I don't want them using artificial fertilizers. I want this. I want all the people to be treated well, like all the things that we're imagining. Like you're saying, I'm imagining myself on this beautiful herb farm, right, those are all the things that we're wanting that is not inexpensive to do, and so that, I think, is the biggest challenge for people starting farming is to really kind of get a grasp on what their expenses are and to value themselves. I mean, I know we did it, like so many other people. You're looking on other websites, going what's so and so, charging for this, what should I charge? But that's not really a reality. Now you know, we have enough years where suddenly we realize we're like wait, we're selling this herb at this cost because somebody else is selling it and actually, with Oshala farm and our costs. We're actually losing like 50 cents every time we sell this herb. At this, we're paying people to take it and losing money. So we had to really get a handle on what our expenses were. And we do always thrive, strive to be more efficient, like we. You know we tell people like our job is to try and be as efficient as we can while not sacrificing the quality, because we want herbs to be as affordable as we can. But we also can't be a sustainable farm without being financially sustainable. Right, like you know, we just have all these these interviews for this position that's open right now on the farm and it was like you know. People need to make more than a living wage, like they have expenses in their life, and it's like how do you juggle all that into? Also have people on the farm thrive and feel like they're getting paid what they need to at least, and then a little bit above you hope, because you want them to feel really, you know, respected and valued because they are right and, at the same time, keep the cost down. So I think that is probably you know.

Speaker 2: 39:04

One of the challenges is just the cost and figuring that out, because it's not easy when you have diversified crops it's not like we're just growing corn and soy where, or just even one crop you know, alfalfa or whatever it is you can easily figure out what your costs are.

Speaker 2: 39:18

But when you have diversity it does make it hard, because it's hard to track how much time you spend on each crop and what your yield is.

Speaker 2: 39:25

And then I think, knowing your customer, like, if you're going to sell dried herbs, you're likely going to have to put a pretty heavy investment into drying, because a lot of it seems like what's happening is a lot of smaller farms are trying to dry herbs, but they're, like you know, at our scale, selling on a website where we don't know who's going to be the end user, and even, I guess, if not. But we test every lot, so we make sure that the micros are good, the yeast, the mold, no salmonella, no E coli, so that's every lot that we're harvesting. We're spending at least $100 getting tested. Well, if I only harvested two pounds, that really wouldn't pencil out. So, on smaller farms, that is challenging because are they really going to spend the money to test everything? It doesn't make sense. You know what I mean. So I think that investing in good drying infrastructure is important because you don't want to be giving out you know herbs that people are trying to take for their health and it not being healthy.

Speaker 2: 40:27

So, like hanging herbs. You know our herbs are coming out of the dryer within 24 to 48 hours, like that's what we need to have them out at and dried for them to be able to pass the specifications that American Herbal Products Association is suggesting without sterilizing. There's many other big companies out there or like farms, they just sterilize everything now because they don't wanna deal with all the testing and they don't wanna deal with somebody coming back at them and saying this or that, and so that's something to look at. I think it's important for us as farmers to know you have to know your end goal. So if your customer is going to be somebody who needs specifications that are basically sterilization material, you need to know that ahead of time.

Speaker 2: 41:12

So we really are learning, and learn through the hard way to really talk with our customers that we grow on contract for and find out their needs and find out what who's going to pay for what in the end. Right, like how is that going to work? Cause you don't want to all of a sudden be like I'm growing for this great company, it's going to be amazing, and at the end they're like, oh, and it needs to pass all these specifications. You're like, wait what you know and they don't want it or something. So all of those knowing who you're growing for, I think is important.

Speaker 1: 41:42

Yeah, what amazing advice and wisdom there that I didn't really even think about. And I wanna like ask about the sterilization process, Like isn't that going to take away a lot of the beneficial microbes of a plant and the vitality?

Speaker 2: 41:55

You would think so yeah yeah, I don't know, we don't really do a lot of that, they. So I can say that sterilization has come leaps and bounds. There's a steam sterilization and there's heat sterilization and, um, you know, anything that comes imported is irradiated to come in right Because they have to deal with all the import stuff. So that's already happening. And then for the testing, for the sterilization, they have really changed a lot. So I think that there are companies that I know and trust, that are some of my customers, that have tested and they're saying you know, there's still the vitality there, there's still stuff there, so, but we strive to not, we strive to not have to do that. So that's why we invested so much in the dryers and why we try and get our herbs out within a day or two out of the dryer.

Speaker 1: 42:49

Yeah, I wanted to talk about your dryers a bit too. I've I've been really lucky and been able to tour a lot of different herb farms around Oregon, and I think about herb farm them and like the drying room that I got to go in, with all the racks on trays and whatnot, which I would imagine a more small scale farm would do. I'm sure they have bigger ones that maybe I didn't get to see, and I could think about Oregon's Wild Harvest. Before they moved to Redmond. I got to tour there because they're right down the road from me.

Speaker 1: 43:23

But then when I got to see your guys's drying rooms, holy moly, what a cool setup. So I'm going to try and like describe it from my experience and then you can like be like yeah, and it does this and this and this. So they've got this really cool barn that, I think I remember correctly, you built specifically for the drying purpose. And then in there are these drying rooms and the floors have this what looks to be stainless steel that's perforated so that air can flow through, and then the floors move up and down, but then you have it marked on the walls where, like this, is X amount of herb or something along those lines, but just an amazing drying process and I was kind of mind blown touring around and I maybe botched everything and describing it.

Speaker 2: 44:18

But that was really good. We don't have floors that go up and down, but that's a really great concept. I like that. That probably would have definitely been out of our budget, but yeah, I know Elevator floors, yeah, Just the stainless steel floors are expensive.

Speaker 2: 44:31

We do, yeah, and we do go to different levels for different herbs and all of that. And I think you know for drying it's mostly about airflow. So you're talking about your tour with some of these other companies and farms. Most of them are using those herbs and tincture so they're not having to worry about passing those. And well, now it's changed the rules and regulations, but it used to be that you test your product after it's done and if it passes the specifications it's good to go. Just recently, over the last decade, they've changed that to say all, all raw plant materials need to pass before they get into, for instance, alcohol. So, like, that was a big difference, right, If you have to test all your herbs before they go into alcohol, for to make a tincture, that's a totally different test, yeah, and so that's why people, so many people, have been turning towards sterilization, because they're just like man, I can't afford to not be able to sell this product, Um, and you know some of those companies you're talking about where you tincturing so it makes it a little bit easier to to dry on a smaller scale and still have it work out, um, on that way.

Speaker 2: 45:33

So for us it's really about airflow and getting the herbs dry. Like I said, between the between a couple, you know, in a couple of days there's definitely plants that are harder. Like we just were drying artichoke leaf, you know, it's got that big stem in the middle. Same like mullein, you know. You're just like, oh man, like how are we going to get this dried? So just a lot of powerful air without a lot of heat, and sometimes we don't have to put the heaters on and then in the fall, when you're drying roots, for sure you have to have the heat on.

Speaker 2: 46:00

You know, because it's and we have fluctuating temperatures. In Southern Oregon it can get really super cold at night, even though it's in the hundreds in the day. So you just want to keep that temperature the same so the herbs aren't getting moist again after they're drying in that drying process. So we do a moisture analyzer as we take samples out to make sure they are dry. So you always want to have your herbs stored at less than 12. So 12 is kind of what you're aiming for. And if you're 14, and you know everyone's done it as a herbalist, right, we stick all our herbs in a jar. We swore they were dry. And then there's this like something in there didn't work out and you're just like shoot, you have to throw it all out.

Speaker 1: 46:40

So my herbs are so fuzzy, exactly so sad. Yeah, I think about that. And like drying the calendula and like getting the calyx dry versus getting the petals and how quickly those petals dry, yeah, and then having to play that game like gosh, I can only imagine the work that goes into your guys's harvest time with the garbling and all of it. Like it's like do you have like 50 people for per harvest to sit there and go through everything? Like it's a lot? Yeah, I bet it is it's amazing yeah, such, such, yeah.

Speaker 1: 47:21

There's so much to think about, just so many things that I didn't think about in this conversation. So, thank you. I'm like oh man, I've always had that dream.

Speaker 2: 47:28

And then I'm like wait, it all depends on your scale, like you don't. You know we never imagined you. We joke that like the plants kind of found a couple of suckers, jeff and Ida. They're like they'll grow a lot of us. Let's pick them.

Speaker 2: 47:45

But you know, we didn't ever imagine growing at the scale that we're growing at and even though we are relatively a pretty small farm, you know like 125 acres in production, even though we're on 290 acres, what we have cultivated in the fields is, you know, 120 something. So it's like, and that's because we leave land fallow, which means it's resting. So we want to always let the land kind of regenerate itself. Just like, you know, a woman who's having a baby like you're not going to keep having baby after baby or you're not going to be too healthy, you know. And so the same with the land it's like we need to give her time to rest and recuperate and then she can kind of rebuild her nutrients herself by what you plant in there on the fields, while the field is fallow, not being grown for production, and then there's less nutrients that you need to bring back in to the soil to have a productive crop, maybe in a year or two. So that's kind of how we're farming.

Speaker 2: 48:44

We're leaving at least a third of our plantable fields in fallow each year and we're rotating different plant families and all of that.

Speaker 2: 48:48

So we're leaving at least a third of our plantable fields in fallow each year and we're rotating different plant families and all of that. So we're keeping it healthy. Just like as people you know, we don't eat, even though we know broccoli is amazing, it wouldn't be the only thing you ate every day. For every meal, right Like you have to stir it up. So that's the same thing as planting as a farmer you want to think about okay, well, these plants are going to be extracting the nutrients from the soil, but other other plants give back and other plants take different nutrients, and so you know you keep rotating that around and not having the same plant families in the same plant in the same place year after year. So that's what those are all things that are like in the magic you know magic of making you know amazing herbs and also not having to be dumping truckloads of nutrients coming from other places on your farm every year.

Speaker 1: 49:34

That is so cool to think of. So so, when the land is fallow, are you growing like red clover oats? What about comfrey? Are you growing comfrey there, or do you, like, run the risk of like it just taking over the world?

Speaker 2: 49:46

Yeah, when we grow com somewhere, it's pretty there for a while and crazy enough is, like you know, we harvest comfrey right. So we really are trying to get it all up when we're harvesting and it still grows there. So it's kind of like that's the comfrey place. We did have a huge contract for a couple times for comfrey and we just were like you know, we can't do this because that comfrey is going to be everywhere forever. We can't do that.

Speaker 1: 50:11

So yeah, so many things to think about through this process and so much paperwork and documentation. And, yeah, like you've got to think about what's the weather on top of that for the growing process and the drying process. Like how, how do you keep it all organized?

Speaker 2: 50:35

Yeah, well, I mean, there's a team of us, you know, and we just, yeah, we just juggle a lot, but we love it. So that's the part where it's like I think if you love what you do, it makes it not really work really. You know what I mean? It's like I do and that's what's beautiful about doing something that you're passionate about is that you know it doesn't feel like you're really working. It's like I mean there are times where I, when I'm filling out that paperwork, I do feel like I'm working and I definitely don't get paid enough to do it.

Speaker 1: 51:09

But it's also life, it's your lifestyle. That's like. One of the things I try to explain to people is they're getting into herbs, you know, and they're like you know, give me the herb that's going to fix my problem, or whatnot. I'm like, but this is a lifestyle. It's not just like here's your herb pill, that's not how we, how it works best. It becomes a lifestyle that you get completely immersed in. Whether you like it or not. These plants will call you like you said. They're like hey, these guys are going to grow lots of us.

Speaker 2: 51:35

Like yeah, and that reciprocity of like, well, what can I do for this herb? Right, just like you know, so many people remind us of like you just don't meet 70 for the first time and say, hey, what can you do for me, mel? Like tell me about yourself, like, right, let me listen, yeah, let me learn what you have to say, and then do we resonate? Right, and then it's like we have that relationship and then it works.

Speaker 1: 51:59

Otherwise it's just not going to be the same kind of process yeah, that's some deep plant wisdom and human wisdom right there, all the lessons that we can learn from the plants if we do take the time to listen. And in such a fast-paced society with all the social media and all the things, it's really easy to forget about that piece or to not let that piece in. But really that's so much of the magic in plant medicine.

Speaker 2: 52:31

Yeah, which brings us to let's talk about herb camp.

Speaker 2: 52:35

Yeah, that's my next thing yeah, so yeah, and that's pretty much you know why we so we are full production farm, we've got all this stuff going on, but at the same time, it's like people you know, like you were, were have been talking about. It's like so many people's dream to be on an herb farm, to work on a farm, to own an herb farm, to like just frolic in the herbs on an herb farm and so, um, and it is so beautiful and it is so amazing, as hard work as it is. And so part of our joy every year has been hosting this herb camp. Just because there's other plant lovers that come and you know we do. We do tours once a month, may through September. Generally it's for it's a lot of them are customers that already know us and work with us, but then there's also, you know, homeschool groups or just different people that come from the community that are, like you know, passed by our farm and want to know what it's all about.

Speaker 2: 53:33

So, but herb camp is for people who really are plant people, you know, and they are just so excited, and I was just writing this Facebook post last night and I was just saying that, you know, I feel like the plants are so excited at herb camp, like, you see them kind of like buzzing up, you know what I mean. They're just like and, yes, I've been loved all weekend because all these people are walking by them admiring. Oh yeah, look at this, you know, look at this plant, look at that. And so it's so fun to be able to open up the space, and as much work as it is to host 150 people on your farm when it's not an event center, that's not what you do for a living, right, it still brings us a lot of joy for the most part.

Speaker 2: 54:13

So, um, we do offer that once a year, and this this year it's June 27th through 29th and, um, we have, you know, I kind of always say you know, we're all teachers, right, we all have something to offer, but we do have teachers that have classes and workshops that they offer, you know, throughout the day there's five different workshops and you can kind of go in and out of them at different times, different times of the day. There's a morning workshop and afternoon and all the meals are covered and people camp on the farm. So you get to wake up and be in the fields and just kind of immerse yourself, kind of. What you were saying too is just like a chance. I like to joke and say just you can tell your family the cell phones don't work here. Just turn them off and we'll back you up.

Speaker 1: 55:02

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 55:03

Just turn off your phone and just if you could disconnect for the weekend and reconnect with all the plants and the people that are there.

Speaker 1: 55:12

It's a special time, so I know you've experienced it firsthand at herb camp, so maybe you can yeah, of course, I'm like, oh, and now I get to come in with with my perspective of it and it is so magical and right. When you were talking about the gathering of the people, I thought about how those plants might, so it's so cool that you get to see that happen. In the aftermath you know I'm there for the weekend I'm like, yes, this is amazing, and like the connections you get with other herbalists, I'm craving it in such a big way, like right now, my life is so primarily online. And I'm like big way, like right now, my life is so primarily online and I'm like I need to be with herb people and with the plants and have that joy and loving reciprocity and the lessons everywhere you go. And, yeah, you're camped. I'm not sure how you guys have it set up for this year, but you're camped along the fields and you get to walk up to this beautiful oak tree which is where some of the classes happen, and you're gathering with the most beautiful people, taking incredible classes and lessons and, if you're lucky, you get to make some blackberry mugwort concoction with Glen Nagel and get really, really creative with everything coming from the farm, like it's just a really, really beautiful experience and then, just like I'm a knowledge junkie, I want to soak it all in. And there's so many different flavors of knowledge to gather there. The food is incredible, the community is incredible, the laughter and the smiles that you're going to get from every step and face that you like, step you take and face that. You see it's beautiful, it's so beautiful and it's so much fun.

Speaker 1: 56:59

And if you've ever, whether you want to have your own farm or not, maybe you just want to be where the plants are grown and see what that looks like. And what does a field of beautiful orange, golden calendula look like? Or what's it feel like to see all of the bees buzzing around all of these plants and hear them sound like helicopters buzzing around your head, like it's. It's an experience like no other. And if you have the opportunity, the price for this event is incredible, especially when you think about how much goes into it and how much you're going to come away from with it. Like, yeah, I'm super excited about it, it's amazing. Make me want to go, mel. Yeah, I'm in. Lucky you, lucky you you get to go.

Speaker 2: 57:52

I know I'm excited, yeah, yeah, and and Glenn will be there this year again. So we usually have teachers. We don't have teachers teach year after year, that we rotate teachers in and out just so that we get a variety of people. And there's so many people that have so much to share, it's so hard to figure out who's coming, you know.

Speaker 1: 58:09

I bet it is Like you have such a community of incredible herbalists, yeah, yeah, and we do have a variety of.

Speaker 2: 58:16

You know, we try and have classes and workshops that are for people that are, you know, new and beginning, and then farming and botany classes, and we're super excited to have Matt Dabala from herb farm. He's our lead um, agricultural director, I guess is his title now, but farmer Um, and so there'll be, you know, definitely the growing classes. And then, um, the other thing to mention after herb camp this year that I don't know, I don't know if you're into it or not, but Erica Galantine, do you know Erica from Savantree? I do know Erica, yeah, cause you took her, did you took her distillation class at Brighton Bush.

Speaker 1: 58:48

I didn't do her class, but I definitely hung out with her. I was in another class at that point in time. Yeah, erica will be coming and teaching in our community herbalist program later this year too. Oh good.

Speaker 2: 58:58

Yeah, good, yeah.

Speaker 1: 59:00

So she is doing some distillation work and classes during herb camp, but then the next day she's doing an all day workshop on Monday on the farm, so people can stay over for an intensive class on Monday with her, which I'm really excited about. So, ooh, I didn't know that piece. I knew she was going to be there teaching and staying over and there's not an extra charge to stay the extra night.

Speaker 2: 59:23

Um, so people can spend the night an extra night on the farm and then charge to stay the extra night. So people can spend the night an extra night on the farm and then take her class the next day.

Speaker 1: 59:31

Wow, that's incredible. That is so cool, excited. Oh, the other piece, like not only are you camping on this awesome herb farm and you're in southern Oregon and it can get really hot, but they're really close to the river to like you can go jump in it and have some swim time in the middle of a hot day If you need. I did that with a few people last time and it was really fun.

Speaker 2: 59:52

Yeah, yeah. And then we have all kinds of. You know there's other business classes I'm not sure you would really enjoy. Do you know Angela Willard from harmonic herbs in Canada? Is she doing the skincare one?

Speaker 1: 1:00:09

No, she's actually talking about how to grow a company but keep your values and integrity, which is super important.

Speaker 2: 1:00:11

You know, it's like how do we grow as herbalists um our companies and really keep that foundation integrity and her company is an amazing company.

Speaker 1: 1:00:20

Harmonic arts that I've heard of harmonic arts. Now that you say, um, yeah, that's incredible, that sounds really amazing. What other, what other?

Speaker 2: 1:00:29

classes Catherine and Lauren from Wish Garden Herbs. Catherine's the founder, yay, and they're doing a class and she's amazing and I'm so excited to have her come on the farm. She's never I don't think she's been on our farm before, although we do a lot of work together with Wish Garden Herbs. So I'm super excited to have her there. And Lauren's been there a few times, so that is going to be amazing classes.

Speaker 2: 1:00:52

And then Drea Moore, who teaches with a land of verse school but also is an amazing herbalist who's living in Washington now. She kind of calls herself the sober herbalist. She's doing a bunch of classes, not a bunch, sober herbalist. She's doing a bunch of classes um, not a bunch, but everyone does two classes right. Um, on just how to you know, just this mocktail craze of what's happening, but really doing it with kind of in the medicinal lens of how to really make some potent, potent medicine within all of that um, and she's just great about connecting you with really like your vision and root of what you're doing and connecting you with plants. She does other things like that. So, and of course, glenn's gonna do his whips and foams and concoctions and all that yeah, and hope allen is who you're talking about.

Speaker 2: 1:01:40

Who's the holistic esthetician? And, um, one of uh, we did sponsors this year. One of our sponsors is evan healy, so we're gonna be using some of their products as well too. And just she, she just sends in her handout and it's incredible. It's like I was like geez, I don't even think we. I should like make this into a book for you instead of giving this out for free, like it's such great knowledge. So, yeah, yeah, so many of them that I want to go to. I know we've got Dr Jackie. I don't know if you know who she is. She's an amazing indigenous plant medicine person. She's coming as well. She's friends with Angela Willard, so I'm super excited to have that. She brought her. And just you know, people are just doing all these different amazing great classes. Of course, jeff's going to teach them farming, and then this year we have a vet track. So cody, who used normally does our wellness tent area, um, she's going to be teaching two classes on um animal plant medicine.

Speaker 2: 1:02:40

So, yeah, yeah, we're gonna. Oh my gosh, she's our farm dog. As a guinea pig I guess she's not really gonna pick, but a dog is a patient how to do exams and um, so it's going to be fun. And I mentioned matt and then um dr rachel, we have, like, I think, three or four mds that are teaching this year, which is fun. But, um, cooking with medicine, um, we're doing some digestive, you know.

Speaker 2: 1:03:01

So there's some formulation classes, there's hands-on medicine making and there's um shereel washington, who's also a teacher from Landiverse. She's going to be doing some African education and just like talking about the roots of herbalism within the Black community, and so that's really exciting and I'm really excited. I've taken her class before at the Women's Herbal Symposium in Northern California and she's a beautiful teacher, so I'm really excited to have her here for the first time. And then and I'm Breck from um sustainable herbs initiative is going to do a little presentation on Friday before our live music. So it's fun, it's, you know it'd be, it's it's a typical herb conference, but it's on the farm. So it's like you get fun workshops, fun people, good food, music, learn tons and have a great time.

Speaker 1: 1:03:52

Yeah, my giddiness is off the charts right now. If you guys could see me on the podcast, I'm kind of dancing in my chair. It sounds so much fun and so needed and for anybody that's like never been to an herb conference, that's like never been to an herb conference. They really are the best places ever.

Speaker 2: 1:04:12

It's kind of when you know you're in the right with the right people.

Speaker 1: 1:04:15

Right, you're like I love this group of people. That's exactly what happened to me at my first like official herb conference. I walked away and I was like I love these people, this is what I want to be when I grow up. And then like, then, like again, the plants chose me and we're like well, you're stuck now. Yeah, you're never gonna think about anything else for the rest of your life. I mean, you know a few things here and there, but, um, yeah, it's, it's pretty powerful and magical and these classes sound amazing. And the last time I saw Catherine from Wish Garden was at NUNM for traditional roots, so I'm really excited to run into her too. Like what a powerful force of human that woman is. Yes, yeah, so so exciting, so amazing. Well, thank you for hosting such an incredible event and doing the amazing work that you do, keeping that integrity the whole way through and dotting the i's and crossing the t's that you have to do to actually fda compliant yeah I mean that's such a huge thing.

Speaker 1: 1:05:23

I know, yes, I didn't get certified organic, but I did everything else by the book with my product line and so many. It would frustrate me when people didn't and are like here's this stuff and I'm like I've worked so hard to make sure that I am dotting those i's and crossing the t's and um. There's a lot. Again, two things right.

Speaker 2: 1:05:46

Yeah, there's a lot to be again about that level of integrity.

Speaker 1: 1:05:47

Yeah, there's a lot to be said about that level of integrity. So, thank you, thank you so much and, of course, we're excited to see you this summer.

Speaker 2: 1:05:56

Oh my gosh so good, so good.

Speaker 1: 1:05:59

I am so excited for it too, and of course we'll link to herb camp and to all of Oshala's good stuff. And if you are even like having this little tiny inkling of like, ooh, that sounds fun, do it, just do it Like it's such a good time. You will not regret it. So thank you so much. Thank you, elise, for taking time out of your busy farm woman day to chat with me, thank you.

Speaker 2: 1:06:25

Thank you for everyone listening and for all the support people give, and just for the love of plants. Yeah, I'm glad we're all in this together. Amen, yeah, take care. Yeah, you take care. Thanks, mel.

Speaker 1: 1:06:45

Thank you so much for joining me on this episode of the Herbalist Path. If you're loving this journey and learning all about the various aspects of herbal medicine, be sure to follow and review the show. It helps more people find their own path with herbal medicine, and if you have a friend or know a mama or another budding herbalist who could use this kind of support, please share this episode with them and that way we can keep making herbalism spread like wildflowers and a gentle reminder. Nothing shared on this podcast is intended to diagnose, treat or cure any disease. All the information is for educational purposes only and, yeah, we throw in some entertainment too. But what it is not is a substitute for personalized care from a qualified health practitioner. Always do your own research, listen to your body and, when needed, partner with a trusted professional who honors both your intuition and your health. Until next time, take care, stay curious and keep walking down the herbalist path.