Do Herbs Really Work? Clinical Herbalist Brittany Williams' Honest Answer After 25+ Years

You can study herbs for years, read all the books, memorize the properties… but none of it replaces working with real people. None of it builds your intuition the way practice does, and it definitely doesn't come from AI.

If you've ever wondered whether herbs really work or doubted your abilities as an herbalist, this conversation with clinical herbalist Brittany Williams of Eudemonia Herbs is going to feel like a deep exhale. Brittany shares her 25-plus year journey and gets real about what it takes to grow as an herbalist, why nuance matters, and how experience shapes confidence in ways no algorithm ever could.

What's in this episode:

• Brittany's magical apothecary discovery at Smile Herb Shop
• The "friends, family, and fools" phase of building confidence
• Why herbs work (and when they don't): quality, dosage, and matching
• Meeting people where they are vs. gatekeeping herbalism
• How herbal education creates a ripple effect in communities
• Starting somewhere is better than starting nowhere

For full show notes and transcript: https://www.theherbalistspath.com/blog/brittany-williams-eudemonia-herbs-work

Ready to deepen your herbal skills with mentorship from Brittany & Mel? Learn more about the Community Herbalist Certification & Mentorship Program at https://www.theherbalistspath.com/community-herbalist-certification

3 Steps to Feeling Confident As An Herbalist, a free class coming up, where we'll cover the 3 most important things to know, so you can show up and do this work with confidence. 

And we'll talk about why we need more skilled herbalists now more than ever.

Get signed up here. 

We're excited to welcome Grace Yoon, clinical herbalist, entrepreneur, & author of The Korean Herbal Apothecary, to share a class with us. 

She'll be teaching Food Is Medicine: Fermentation, Gut Health, and the Herbalist's Kitchen, Get your tickets he

Transcript

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SPEAKER_02 3:21

Welcome to the Herbalist Path, a podcast that's all about helping herbalism spread like wildflowers. I'm Mel, a clinical herbalist, environmental educator, and a mama who's been walking this path for well over 20 years. I created this show to help you feel confident with herbal medicine. You're gonna get a blend of how-to episodes, incredible guest experts sharing their wisdom, and real talk about using herbs every day. All to help you care for your family naturally, take better care of our precious planet, and maybe even become the trusted herbalist in your own community. You see, this work isn't just about the herbs, it's about healing ourselves, it's about caring for each other, and it's about living in deeper connection with the earth. So whether you're blending your first tea, making your first tincture, or feeling called to be the go-to herbalist in your community, welcome. You belong here. You are right on time, and you are on the herbalist path. Hello, hello, and welcome back to our next episode on the herbalist path. I am absolutely delighted and thrilled and honored to share today's guest with you. Her name is Brittany Williams. She is from Eudaimonia Herbs. She's a fellow clinical herbalist. She runs her own herbal product line. She works with people one-on-one in her community, and she's a brilliant educator. You may have heard of her on another podcast episode with me, or if you've been inside of any of my programs, I've had the great pleasure of learning from Brittany and having her guide quite a few of our students. So I am beyond thrilled to have you here, Brittany. Welcome to the Herbalist Path. Thank you so much. I'm so happy to be here. Yeah, that was just like a quick intro to who you are. And obviously, there's so much more to share about who you are. And one thing I just love to hear about is just kind of the beginnings of your herbal journey. Like how did you even become an herbalist? What

Brittany’s Origin Story In Herbalism

SPEAKER_02 5:46

was it that started you in that path?

SPEAKER_00 5:49

The origin story.

SPEAKER_01 5:51

Yeah. That's what I need to call it.

SPEAKER_00 5:53

My origin story. Yeah, it all started um way back in the day. Um, I was attending the University of Maryland and College Park, and they used to have this lovely uh little food co-op in the basement of what's called Stamp Union. For anybody who might happen to go to the University of Maryland and College Park, it is no longer, the food co-op is no longer in the basement of the Stamp Union. They're still stamping still yet there. I know this because my son goes there. But, anyways, so I was down there and it was kind of like this um hippie ish type of place. You could get your little sandwiches with your um hummus and your um sprouts and all that stuff. And they were talking about some kind of herb or whatever there, the people who are making the sandwiches, and they're like, oh, you should go to this shop called Smiles Herb Shop, which that is still there off of Berwin Road, off of Route One. So I went there, and for all of you, I guess it's the millennials that are out there, it was like walking into the office of, I don't know, Professor McGonagall or something out of out of Harry Potter. There's like even the herb wall behind me is kind of fashioned out of it. It's like this older house. You walk in and there's creaky wood floors, and it's just the most beautiful apothecary I've ever seen. And I was just flabbergasted. I was like, what is this? Tell me all the things. Of course, I went back to this little book section that they had, and I just started buying books. And that was the beginning of me learning how to, I was honestly, I was scared to use herbs internally. So I started out with doing a lot of skincare stuff, and it just kind of progressed from there. I started making, I started this business, I started making herbal skincare products and whipped body butters and salt scrubs and all these other kind of really kind of cool things before it became a cool thing. Um, and then it progressed to what I call the friends, family, and fools, where I started working internally and using um herbs in a medicinal fashion internally. Although I do want to say one caveat externally, using herbs, it is also internal, right? Like when you use right, that connection was there, but wasn't quite as there when this was, you know, 25 years ago for me until I started to get more into it. So that was kind of the my entryway into herbs, is using them topically. And then I got pregnant and started using herbs internally and um practicing on my my guinea pigs of families and friends and and people who were foolish enough to be like, yeah, sure, I'll be your guinea pig. And it just really kind of progressed from there. Again, this is a couple decades ago, and then here I am now with the Eudaimonia herbs, where I'm an educational herbalist, a clinical herbalist. I have a few products out there, and I'm really just trying to spread the the word that you know herbal medicine is a real thing and it's incredibly supportive and useful. Period.

SPEAKER_02 8:45

Yeah, yeah, I love that. I had myself muted for a moment and uh was like trying to talk to you. It didn't work. So that's an awesome story. Like I love that visual, and I can totally feel the creaking wood floors, and I can like smell that apothecary and the way that it just had its whole vibe. Like I remember those spaces too back in the 90s, like how cool and mysterious they were.

SPEAKER_00 9:10

And what I love is it still exists, like they still they move things around a little bit, but it's still pretty much the same shop as it was almost 30 years ago when I walked in there. I always have to think of things in terms of the age of my kids. And so my oldest is 25, and it was before he was born. So oh my gosh. Um, so yeah, it's it it was a very magical place, magical in the sense of the emotions that it evoked in me. Not magical in the sense of, you know, all of the herbs that are backed by science.

SPEAKER_02 9:45

Right, right. Yeah, I I love that. And I can I can feel the magic piece, the nostalgia and things like that. So you said uh one thing in your story there, how you just started buying books. And you may know this still and you may not, but I'm curious, like if you can recall either the first herb book you picked up or the most impactful one from that 30-year journey of walking into that magical, mysterious place.

SPEAKER_00 10:14

What um my first book was the one that probably many people have, which is I think the Garden of Eden, right? You know, that that paperback, right? That I was just like, this is gonna tell me all the things. And one of the ones that was the most impactful at that time period, again, this is very early on, was I think it's like 20,000.

unknown 10:35

Oh my god.

SPEAKER_00 10:37

Uh it says something about tea. Um and I've got it's just a little paperback. 20,000, yep, that's the one. Yep, 20,000 secrets of tea. That is the exact one.

SPEAKER_01 10:50

How funny that like pull the very book out.

SPEAKER_00 10:54

That book. So, what is the copyright on that book?

SPEAKER_02 10:56

Uh, that's a great question. It's not one that I actually looked that deep into because I can tell it's not like creased or yeah, I guess mine is literally falling apart.

SPEAKER_00 11:05

This one says 1999. Yeah, so that's it was probably brand new when I went in there. So, yeah, uh, because that's a year before my son was born. So that one, I mean, like it's falling apart. Oh, and I will say one other one that I absolutely love, which is Earthly Bodies Heavenly Hair, I think. Um two seconds, right? Yeah, earthly bodies heavenly hair. This was the one that was crucial for I know it's up back upside down, but um me doing body care stuff. I mean, it had the most wonderful recipes, it had really great um basic recipes like this is how you make a lotion, this is how you make a cream, this is how you make an infused oil, this is how you do all those things. That was this was absolutely

Foundational Books And 90s Learning

SPEAKER_00 11:55

crucial by um Dina Falcone, right? And so she just had a really lovely way of bringing um herbs into my life in that way. And this was also 1998, so that's core time.

SPEAKER_02 12:09

Bless the 90s, I've got to say.

SPEAKER_00 12:41

We didn't really have the internet the way that it is now, you know. It was kind of a crazy thing to have a computer in your dorm room when you so you know, getting information was a little bit different, and so you just had to kind of, you know, do it the old-fashioned way of of you know going through the books and figuring out and having things like mentors were much was much more challenging, and um educating yourself was a little bit more, you had to work really hard in order to get that information. So I kind of miss those days. I do because um there was a when you did find somebody else, you were immediately best buddies, um, because because the communities were you know few and far between. I mean, I think I started with some like AOL communities and chat rooms and stuff like other herbalists that started dating me. Um and it was just a whole different different thing than it is now. But I feel like even though it was easier to there wasn't a lot of um BS that was that's that's out there now. I mean, it was out there, but not like it is now. Now it's really challenging, I think, to find the right information.

SPEAKER_02 14:00

Hot diggity dog. It is and this is like such a hot topic right now because I know there was just a a piece of information put out on out in the world that 82% of the herb books on Amazon right now are AI generated herb books. And I think that is absolutely insane. And in fact, I remember sometime within this past year of 2025 where I had been targeted with ads for this great herb program. And I'm like, huh, who's this? And I look into it, and this person is not even a human, does not even exist. And so I wrote that on the ad that I was being targeted. Like, hey, I looked into this, somebody who studied herbalism for well over 25 years, and I'm pretty connected into the herbal community, obviously willing to be connected on deeper levels and to more people, but I've never seen this person, and upon my research, this person does not exist. They blocked me.

SPEAKER_00 15:07

Of course they did, and you know, doing your not everybody's gonna do your due diligence like that. And um, it's just really kind of uh challenging to to to get the information that is not because there's so much um just error. And I don't even want to say misinformation, I don't technically like that word, but it is it's lies, like it's either misinformation or lies. There are actually those are actually two different things, in my opinion. Some people just just are lying about things, and I have seen um a lot with social media kind of sensationalizing um certain things. So you have people with social media. One of the things that I think is um fascinating in a lot of good ways, and fascinating and unfortunate in a lot of bad ways, is that people like, oh, you know, have multiple strings of streams of income. You can do drop shipping, you can do this, and you can have AI write a write an herbal book, you can create a whole thing, have AI create it in Canva and just put it out there, and and you have no idea what you're talking about. And that's really actually very dangerous. And um, I've heard people um taking um it could either be uh data, right? And and kind of misusing data in a way that supports their claim in a very um negative, not negative, and in a way that's um disingenuous. And there are people who are just out there spouting information that is completely not true, and a lot of times those people are not people at all. Yeah. So it's it's something to really be wary of.

SPEAKER_02 16:45

Yeah. So how would you recommend somebody

The AI Problem And Bad Herbal Info

SPEAKER_02 18:05

who's like, you know, currently inundated by the AI that is out there? You know, you do a Google search now, and your first thing that comes up is not somebody's credible website, but AI taking from all of these different websites, which we already know many of them lack quality information. So, like, how does somebody who doesn't understand that maybe this stuff might not be true, how do they navigate that?

SPEAKER_00 18:32

Yeah, I uh so if you have somebody who's just like, oh, I'd love to, you know, um uh uh naturally support my body and my blood pressure regulation. What herbs are great for that and you have no herbal knowledge, don't use it. Do not use AI because you it's it's it is it doesn't have enough background information about you. It doesn't have it, it's pulling from too many different places, it gets information that's wrong a lot of the times. I'm sure plenty of people have had those experiences where you know you're like, oh, tell me this, and then it gives you a little explanation, and then you're like, well, I thought this was, you know, this was that. And it's like, actually, you're right. Thanks for catching that, you know, Brittany. And it's like, well, which is it then? You know, what information are you, what information is correct? So if you're uh a beginning herbalist or just somebody who wants to get some basic information, I would say, do not use AI. And I would also say if you're gonna get a book that's gonna give you some information, that you have to research that author. And if you go and you Google that author and the only reference to that author is that book, then it's probably not a person. Yeah, it's probably not a real person.

SPEAKER_02 19:52

I'll end to that. And I'm just gonna do like a shameless plug right here because I do have a bookshop.org space for the herbalist path where I share a lot of different books. Many have been guests on this podcast, they are actual human authors. So um I definitely make sure that's a a good point of reference. And it's not supporting Jeff Bezos, it's supporting independent bookstores. And I think the woman that runs Bookshop is a black woman who's like, let's tell Bezos to go screw. So, anyways, I'll drop a link to that in in the show notes for anybody looking for quality books written by actual humans. That's a that's a big deal.

SPEAKER_00 22:29

So that's a really good point that you that you're bringing up. I don't think it's a shameless plug because I think when you have somebody who's been working with herbs for decades and can say, these are books that I can vouch for, then you're gonna get some information. You're gonna get information that can be vouched for, that you know has some credibility to it versus just Googling or or you know, scrolling through TikTok and you see, you know, a thousand and one herbs that will cure every ailment. You know, you don't know where that's coming from. And you don't, you know, you need to have some, you need to have some clarity with the situation and and some perspective. And I think when you get uh referrals or information from somebody who has this knowledge and has been working with herbs in the herbal world for quite a while, um, that that is much better than just kind of going at it blindly.

SPEAKER_02 23:21

Yeah. Amen. Okay, so I feel like AI is a rather heated topic. It definitely is for me, and I'm feeling that from you as well. And and it is the world that we live in today, but you are also a person with well over 30 years of experience in the herbal field. So I want to get back to Britney Williams and her knowledge and her insight. And one thing you were mentioning as you kind of opened up with how you got into herbs, is you said you started working with your friends, family, and fools. And it brought up to me something that I commonly hear from a lot of my students or people entering and starting to work with herbs, is like they have this whole fan friends, family, and fools, but they're they're skeptics, I think is the word that I hear a lot. And I'm wondering like, did you run into the skeptics in the beginning? And how did that work out for you with your friends, families, fools, and skeptics? That's that's such a loaded question.

SPEAKER_00 24:23

So for me, um, I come from a family on on two different sides. I come from a family of educators, and I think it's really funny. I'll just say this little tangent um really quickly. Um, I said that I never, when I was younger, much, much, much younger, you know, teens, I never want to be in education. I never want to be a teacher. It's all, you know, I never want to do that because I just saw my family doing that. And that what look what happened. I homeschooled my kids. I ran a small independent private school, and then I started teaching herbal education. So clearly that is, and I love teaching. So that I was never able to get away from. And then the other side um are all doctors. I've got OBGYNs, general practitioners, psychiatrists, like I have got the whole line of my family of educators and doctors. So um it's funny. Uh I found that I had much better success with my friends and fools than with my family. And what's fascinating is the doctors um in the family. I often would have very great conversations with them. Still to this day, I'm like, uh let's, you know, spitball this together. Let's go through our differential analysis of something. Let's go like I love so, and they're very open to um to discussion and learning. And I think nowadays, so one of my uh, you know, I have doctors that are like uncles, so they're an older generation, and then I have contemporary, and obviously the contemporary, actually, I would say both. My uncle um is still trying to get me to help with um making um

Handling Skeptics And Family Dynamics

SPEAKER_00 26:07

uh or giving suggestions verbal products for a lot of his his clients and or his patients, actually his patients. And um my other uh uh contemporary doctor is very open. Um, although I do think that she kind of um it's so funny if she listens. I'm so sorry if you're listening. I think she's just kind of like, oh. Boy, here comes Brittany again with all her herbal, herbal stuff. But then when I start hitting hitting her with the facts of like the clinical trials and the research, and then she's like, oh, okay, you know, that kind of makes sense. Um educated my mother, bless her heart. She just like, oh Brittany, make me some of that tea for this such and such. And then I go over there two years later and it's like not open. So that's my mom. Yeah. I'm like, oh god. Or of course, there's the the, you know, um, you know, I I you know what what can I take for for X, Y, and Z, you know? And then I start breaking out like the okay, well, mom, I know you're on this medication and this medication, so you shouldn't, you know, be doing this. And she's like, what? So uh one of the biggest challenges to kind of sum up, one of the biggest challenges, um because I have those those two perspectives that I'm coming from, is having people understand that herbal medicine is herbal medicine, and that there they have to be, and this is where the knowledge piece comes in, right? They have to, you know, be careful if you're on other medications. You have to um understand how that it is gonna affect your body. People think, oh, it's of the earth. It's it's not, you know, it's natural, it's not gonna do anything harmful to your body. Dude, there are hallucinogens that are that are natural that you know, there's things out there that you can eat that are gonna kill you. Like obviously it can affect, it can and does affect your body. And so that bigger picture is kind of challenging. Did that make any sense tonight?

SPEAKER_02 28:20

Totally, lots of it. And it's it's you sharing your story, which to me is really exciting and fascinating. And hopefully to the listeners as well, I think it will be. Um, but yeah, that whole like uh I like to just say natural is not synonymous with save because there is a lot of like, I don't know if it's a I I think it's actually hope. It's hope from people as they get into this, like, oh wait, there's an alternative from all the pills I've been given for years, from the, hey, I'm sick, go to the doctor, take your instant fix pill. There is a natural approach, and that is so exciting to think about, I think, for many people as their mind gets open to that, that it's like, great, natural safe, you know, and as you mentioned, yeah, of course, there's many natural things that are are not really safe.

SPEAKER_00 29:11

And I think it's also our current medical culture, right? Especially with Western medicine, about how um a pill for every ailment, you know, you have this ailment, let's take a pill for that. You have this, you know, and so that mentality of like, I I want to take this this herb and I wanted to fix my problem immediately. And that's not the approach that herbalism is really kind of takes. Um there can be that kind of response and that kind of result where you take something and immediately your problem is solved. But there also is the thing like, hey, this takes some time, or let's look at the bigger picture. Let's not just look at some symptoms like look, let's look at the root cause that will then alleviate the symptoms, right? Let's let's go start with the you know deep, what's really going on to with your body, and um let's move out from there versus let's just put a little band-aid on it.

SPEAKER_02 30:14

Yeah, and I think that's that's exactly it. Like we I like to say that we are trained in the Western medical system box where you do get that like, hey, here's my my instant fix pill, but this whole healing more chronic conditions on a deeper level is a journey. And oftentimes people, you know, they do want that quick instant fix, but that's where herbal medicine and a more holistic lifestyle differentiate. You've been trying to follow that convenience model that has brought you to more convenient pills and whatnot, not serving you to the end. That's where you've already been burned. So you have to shift that mindset as well. And I think what happens or or a question I want to ask back to you because it is a really valuable skill set and way of working with people to help them along to understand that no, I don't have an herb to give to you for your diabetes. I do not have an herb. And so it becomes almost like coaching, almost like guiding somebody through this journey and this path to be able to heal themselves, to get out of that Western medicine box and way of thinking. And I'm just curious, like how that looks for you, or how you would uh recommend other people that are like, wait, you know, I've seen the acute symptom management work with plantain or calendula on a rash, but how do I actually help people not come back to me? Sure. For the same rash.

SPEAKER_00 31:55

Yeah, yeah. I mean, so I think you mentioned a couple of things. It's absolutely coaching and um it's meeting the people where they are. So that is like the key thing and helping them, you know. So it's not just like here, these herbs can support these different body systems, these herbs can help alleviate some of these particular symptoms. Um, but it's also let's look at lifestyle, and this is kind of again getting out of that Western medicine

Coaching Clients Beyond Quick Fixes

SPEAKER_00 32:22

box, right? Let's look at some of your lifestyle choices that's putting you into this area. Let's look at how are you moving your body, what's your hydration like, what are you putting in your body? Food is always your first medicine. That is the first thing that you need to go to. Moving your body is the second one. If those two are not dealt with, then you know, then anything that I'm going to say or any pill that you're going to be given is not going to be as effective. Point full stop, in my opinion. Um, so it's meeting people where they are, helping them make these small lifestyle changes that can help support their wellness. And then it's also, um, I think sometimes it's working with, especially when I'm working clinically with people, sometimes it's like, hey, listen, we need to work, uh, we're you're going to, you might have an autoimmune condition, let's say you're going to be on medication for the rest of your life. Let's support your body in other ways that we can with herbs. We can support the condition that you might have, we can support the symptoms that might be um coming from this particular condition condition. It could be the side effects that are from the medications that you're on that we're also supporting. Like there are different ways that um herbs can be used to support wellness that's helping the person where they are and what they're capable of doing. And even just not just in that way, even the the format, right? The delivery system of of what you're doing. You know, a lot of times when I'm working with with clients, it's like, I know you are not, well, let's just even talk about myself, right? I am not gonna be the one, although I am always drinking some tea. I am not gonna be the one to drink four cups of tea of a specific tea a day for the next two weeks in order to, I'm just not gonna do it. You know, so I will drink four cups of tea in a day, but it's not gonna be the same one. I'm not gonna, you know, I just it's just not who I am. So how compliance is key. Yes, compliance is key. So, how can I help this person and be realistic, right? That's the biggest thing is being realistic about how I could support this person and their journey.

SPEAKER_02 34:34

Absolutely. And in that, it becomes a lot of for for me when I'm working with somebody, it just becomes a lot of question asking and kind of drawing out their story beyond what they may have come into the meeting with me, thinking they're going to share. You know, they might come in and be like, hey, I'm here because I am sick of my asthma and I want the herb that's going to fix my asthma. But like we start to really tap into like what else is going on with this person and how can we meet you where you are at in your life? Some of the issues people are gonna come to you for are very stressed, chronically stress-based, right? But you can't just be like, hey, quit your job tomorrow and everything will be fine, right? Because then we have another level of stress. Or, you know, when it comes to the diet piece, right? That is always going to be something we're gonna be talking about, but not everybody has the ability to prep their meals each week or to go out and buy only grass-fed beef or, you know, all of those pieces. So, like, how can you play detective and figure out where to help these people best? Like you said, meet them where they're at. And this level of skill is something that people sure as heck are never going to be able to get through AI learning.

SPEAKER_00 36:02

Yeah, absolutely not. Uh and that I think is one of the key components is that this is a very individual thing. And um even if you even if you have prompts, right, that you give AI about, you know, this is what I'm dealing with, dah, dah, dah, dah, dah, it still can't take the whole picture into consideration and the whole person, the whole body, the whole lifestyle. And so those are the things that we as herbalists are either doing with clients or teaching, um, teaching students how to do with themselves or with clients. Like that's that's what we're here for.

SPEAKER_02 36:43

I love that. Yes, it is teaching. It's teaching your clients too. And yes, teaching your students, which brings me back a little bit because earlier you were talking about how when you were a teen that you said you'd never want to be in education because your whole family's either in education or in allopathic medicine. And I love that you are who you are today. I grew up as a teen and I was like, I want to be a teacher when I grow up or a psychiatrist. I wanted to be one of those two things. And I have certainly dabbled in all of those aspects. I also wanted to be outside and connected with nature all the time and like to look at that journey and that path and be like, holy cow, like here I am. I'm still a teacher. Am I within the normal system? No. But do I have a gift and a love and a joy for teaching and for asking students questions that make them think really critically and go beyond like what they're gonna get for from AI or what they you know thought was the way to go because they saw it on social media and that meme. So yeah, it just kind of kind of brings me uh back to all of that. And I am so grateful that you are an educator with your experience, with your background, with your level of knowledge and skill. And again, as a person who loves teaching, I'm curious when when did you start to be like, hey, I I can I can teach. I am an herbal educator, and this is a skill and a gift. I know you said you were a homeschool mama. Oh, actually, I'm gonna ask you a different question, if that's okay. Um, I have also homeschooled off and on with my daughter and always thought I would just straight up be the homeschool mom the whole time. So kudos to you for homeschooling three all the way through and them all being really successful

Teaching, Homeschooling, And Family Apothecary

SPEAKER_02 38:43

now in their 20s. Superhero woman. Um, but I want to hear a little bit about how herbs played into your family and the homeschool world and all of that. Like, how are your kids with herbs these days? Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 38:57

No, you know what? That's thank you for asking that question. I think as a parent, it's probably one of the things I'm most proud of. So in terms of how herbs work in my kids' life. So I have a 19-year-old, so he's almost 20, he'll be 20 in two months, a 22-year-old and a 25-year-old. And um, all of them, um, we have uh attached to our refrigerator what are these metal shelves with these magnets, and it's our family apothecary. So on there, I have immune support, I have sleep tinctures and sleep teas, and I have separate individual herbs, and they all don't ask me what mom, you know, I can I need this or what they just go to the apothecary and they know what to get and how to use it and all of that other stuff. And I just think that is wonderful. Or when my youngest was like, Mom, I'm going back up to school. I need for my room, I need some sleep tincture, I need that immunity tincture, um, I want some like combing tea, and I need the brain tea, you know, the one that we make with the with the rosemary and the kinko. And I went in and, you know, I kind of like, okay, this is really great. Like he's using these words and he's doing the things, and I'm just really proud of them for, you know, kind of having that that MO. And it's just um super um uh rewarding as a parent to be able to have kids that that do that now and as adults, right? Um, and when they were younger, it was just uh part of their life, I guess, so much. So it was incorporated into their life, and that's kind of the way that I I educate, educating my kids was meeting them where they are and using their own interests to further their education, right? So you're interested in in XYZ, let's take that to the next level, and I can guarantee you in some way, shape, or form, I'm gonna work some herbs in there, you know, somehow. And that just, you know, that just kind of became part of their lifestyle. So that was just a really, really beautiful um thing for that. And I I just love, you know, like my daughter just just just this morning was like, mom, she just got another tattoo. She's like, Mom, um, will you make me the the tattoo balm that that you make? And I'm like, you can make it yourself. And she's like, okay, I get like it, you know, but she's doing it herself, you know, and I think that's just kind of awesome.

SPEAKER_02 41:23

I think that's awesome too. Yay! That's beautiful. I love it. I love it. I I want to meet your kids. I thought they're so cool.

SPEAKER_00 41:32

And I will say, so sidebar, like, so as I was educating, uh, so I said I also ran a small independent um private school.

SPEAKER_02 41:40

I don't think you did say that.

SPEAKER_00 41:42

Oh, yeah, yeah, excited to hear more. Yeah, it was so it was grades three through 12. And um, what was kind of awesome about that is I was that person. So I was the executive director. So not only was I designing curriculum and um helping the teachers design the curriculum for the different classes, I also taught a few classes. I was also kind of like the guy that we had the most we ever had of students was was a hundred. So we were a very small school. Um, and we had a lot of homeschoolers that would come to us. But anyways, I was that person where uh my room always my office always smelled like herbs and lavender and some kind of herbal the twig and berries, they used to say, which is not that is that was a different totally different term these days. A totally different term, but that was the joke. I mean, this was actually, you know, not that that long ago, but it was so funny. It's like, you know, Britney's office always smells like this. I always just just call me Britney. And um, and I would have these kids come into my office. The the teens were my just the joys of my heart. I just love them. And they would come into my office with some kind of drama or some kind of issue, and I'd sit them down, I'd close the door, put my little diffuser on, I'd make a cup of tea, and that would be it. They'd be like, Oh, I'm going to Britney's office for some tea, right? Like, and that was so awesome. I just really loved during that part. And they would sit down and we'd have a cup of tea and they would talk about their studies or talk about their parents or talk about whatever it was, and they just needed to have a cup of tea. It was just kind of awesome.

SPEAKER_02 43:07

I did not I love that so much, Britney. Like, as the kid that needed you when I was a teen, I actually um teens are kind of my favorite demographic to work with as well. I used to do wilderness therapy with at-risk high school kids, and like they are the best. I didn't know at that point that I was slowly becoming an herbalist. I would have certainly loaded them up with tea and things like that, but it is kind of how I did get into the world of herbalism, but that is just beautiful. So thank you for offering those kids. Yeah, I loved it. Thank you. It was a lot of fun. It was a lot of fun. It's so cool. You're a lot of fun. And speaking of your lots of fun and your vast amount of experience in the world of allopathic medicine, herbal medicine, education, curriculum development. I am so excited for what we're doing together and taking the community herbalist certification program up to the next level as a mentorship. And that's exactly what's coming for 2026 here on the herbalist path. I am bringing Brittany in as a co-educator, co-mentor, co-teacher, co-herbalist, co-whatever you want to call it. What was that? Sorry. Oh, all the things. Exactly. And yeah, I am so thrilled to have somebody that does have your level ups of knowledge and actual experience to guide our teachers or students to be there to answer their questions, to be there to challenge them, to think outside of the box. And yeah, that's like my short way of an announcement.

SPEAKER_00 44:58

Yay. I'm actually really excited about this component because um, you know, like I was kind of saying earlier, I I would have loved this kind of program when I was starting out. I would have loved to have been able to talk with a real person. You know, I worked with some mentors, but that was um that was much later on in my herbal journey. And so there were a lot of trial and error um that kind of went on. And um I would have loved to have been able to speak with somebody like, why, why, why did this tincture work this time and not the next time? And what's going on? What am I doing wrong with this formulation? Or, you know, can I use vodka for this? Or do I need to get something higher proof? Like, what's the difference? Like, these are some of the things I just had to figure out um on my own. And so to be able to, and and sometimes that's a wonderful way of learning is making those mistakes. Don't get me wrong. For sure. You know, that's great. But being able to talk through some of these things with people is just an invaluable component that you that is added to this program that I'm really excited to kind of dive into and help out with and talk with people and help them, you know, like you said, uh, you know, challenge them and help them work through those problems. There's nothing like kind of talking out a problem with somebody and uh and coming to the answer yourself, but with some support. And so I'm really excited about that component. I'm I'm

SPEAKER_02 46:33

Yeah, I feel like it's like that that light bulb moment, you know, when you guide a student, they're like, hey, they've got this question for you. And some people might be like, here's your answer. Yeah. Yeah. But my approach, I like to be like, how about I ask you questions back and make your brain go, oh, yeah. Which I feel like I I'm going to talk about AI again because I certainly use it and I'm I'm not anti-AI, though I do hate a lot about it. I definitely explored as a business owner, like, how can I make my life easier with this? But the more I did that throughout 2025, the more I started to feel like I was losing my ability to critically think. I was losing my ability to be creative. And I was like, wait, did I just not get like, am I no longer smart? Am I no longer intelligent? Because I now have this AI kind of thing. And um, I don't know what I'm tying this back around to, but I wonder if other people have have begun to feel that. And like you don't get, oh, that's what it comes back to is that automated intelligence not giving you the ability to think critically to question.

SPEAKER_00 47:52

Yeah, and to process information and and be able to. So here's, and I I do feel two kinds of ways about this, or many kind of ways, I guess I should say. Um, you know, I'm also not anti-AI. Um I am in certain situations, right? I kind of liken it to um a calculator, right? Um, in the sense of, especially since I fucking math. I really like calculators, but like I don't have to figure out this equation by myself. I can I can have assistance with it. But coming up with what is the equation, what is the question I'm asking? How do I create this equation? And now I can enter it into the calculator to help me formulate the answer. But there's some times where I could see, like, if I'm just saying, you know, um, I don't know, and it comes up with some funky answer, there's something wrong with an equation that I've developed. Let me go back and take a look at it. And I have enough, I do have enough math knowledge to be able to figure that part out. Like,

School Leadership, Tea, And Teen Support

SPEAKER_00 48:57

this shouldn't, this doesn't look like it's 60%. Let me do this again and figure out where I went wrong and da-da-da-da-da. But that calculator is still helping me do the base um uh calculations, right, of something. And that is a is a great tool to have. And I kind of think AI, we need to think of AI in that kind of way. Having that and having the foundation is key in order to be able to use it as a tool and not a crutch and not something that is is is is necessary. Like I can function without a calculator. Will it take me a little bit longer? Yes, but I can absolutely function without it. And so can you function without AI? Can you function? Can you write that email? Can you can you work with that client? Can you come up with, you know, if I can sit down and come up with this formulation for these Ts, can I do that without AI? Absolutely. And do I? Absolutely. Do I sometimes say, you know, what do you think about this? Da-da-da-da-da. Yeah. And then I get this information that I might not have thought about, but I still know what that information is. And I think that's really key to have that knowledge. And I think that there are so many different ways that we could get this type of education that we're looking for. Herbalist education, let's just be specific about what we're talking about. Um, and not using AI because it's just not there yet. Maybe I don't know where where the direction of this is going to go, but I don't think it's reliable. That's the thing. It's not a reliable source of information. Full stop. It just isn't.

SPEAKER_02 50:33

Amit. Yes, I full on agree with that. Yeah. Again, it's it's one of those things that we could really uh carry on about. And I am so excited to have you on board and to take the community herbalist certification and mentorship program to that next level to be there for our students, to challenge our students, as they're also getting this very in-depth curriculum on how herbs work with the body, why herbs work with the body, how to work with a client, how to draw out those stories in a way that is supportive of your people, how to formulate incredible, incredible remedies that are going to be effective, how to determine the best way to offer those remedies to your people that will ensure compliance, because that is that is key, right? If they're if the herbs are just sitting on the shelf collecting dust, they're not gonna work, right? So there's there's so many variables and pieces to the puzzle there. And I know that the students that decide to join us for this next cohort starting in uh January will be absolutely thrilled and supported.

SPEAKER_00 51:51

And like so, so I already mentioned, you know, I've written curriculum and many different subjects and things like that. And when I was able to kind of dive in and look behind the scenes of um how extensive the program is, I was like, oh wow, this is amazing. This is really comprehensive, it's really well thought out. I can't wait to to support people using this. I can't wait to, you know, hopefully add to it. I am really excited about that piece of it. And there was something else I was gonna say and I totally forgot. I'm really excited about that component.

SPEAKER_02 52:27

I'll remember it, it's coming back. That's awesome. That uh for those that if if you're not seeing this, I am Gidea's all get out for Britney to be saying this because I have poured my heart and soul into everything that I have done so far on the back of the community herbalist certification program and and now mentorship. Um, and it's a lot of work and a lot of heart and soul. And to have somebody as knowledgeable and as experienced in both herbalism and education come in on the back end and see that and say that to me is it's thank you. I want to cry. Like my students say the nicest things and it's so beautiful and I love it. And and I I did a previous podcast on imposter syndrome and things, and for some reason I'll hear those things and I'm like, that is so amazing. That is so my goal. That feels so good as an educator. And like 25 minutes later, it's gone from my my mind. And so just to hear that from you really means a lot, and I can't wait to continue to build it all out with you.

SPEAKER_00 53:35

Yeah, yeah, thank you. Um yeah, I'm really excited about it. It's nice to see a program that that um has so many different components. Again, it's not just the the um the uh I have words, really I do. It's not just the lessons that are there, it's the support that goes behind it, it's the um the hands-on aspect of it, it's the like there's so many aspects to this that um I think are are so fabulous that I'm really excited to kind of dive into and and and uh be a part of. So yeah, I'm excited about this.

SPEAKER_02 54:15

Awesome. I am too. Yeah. So for anybody listening, surprise, Brittany is now the co-co-person inside of the community herbalist certification and mentorship. I definitely saw myself in need of my support and wanting to give more support to my students, and I couldn't think of a more perfect person. I love that you have that level of education. I love that you're really fun. I love that you are naturally an educator as well. Like we both kind of come from an education background. And I think that makes a huge difference. Like when I was going to college, I was studying environmental and experiential education. So very hands-on and trying to teach to all the different learning styles. And I think just one more piece about this program without it being like this big, like, hey, join us now. I think one of the other great advantages that I see in comparison to when I was really fortunate to learn live in person with so many amazing herbalists and mentors. But I can't go back on the lectures that they gave me. Yeah. And, you know, there's been times that I'm like, wait a second, Paul Bergner taught me about this one thing way back when I don't get to just go back on those notes or on those lessons and be like, well, here's how I help somebody with fatty liver disease, you know. Or here's one of the, here's the things I need to think of if I'm working with somebody with fatty liver. It's not a one protocol and done.

SPEAKER_00 55:50

Exactly. I think that's one of the cool things about herbal education is there's so many different ways to approach something and and that can be so many, so supportive in so many different ways. Um, and you really get a chance to kind of be creative. I think you

Mentorship Announcement And Why It Matters

SPEAKER_00 56:07

said earlier about um, it might not have been this discussion, but being a detective and uh, you know, across the board, you're a detective in the sense of if you're working with clients, if you're doing general formulation, if you're, you know, you're you're asking questions, you're trying to get to the bottom of things, you're trying to figure out different perspectives. And then you get to have, you get to throw some fun in there and try and figure out, okay, so this formulation is going to really help, it's gonna work and it's gonna help support you in XYZ of a manner, but it tastes like crap. So now let me go back and now let me do something else that's going to, you know, so that you're actually gonna use it, so that you're actually, you know, these are the really fun things to teach. And I think either we already said this, or this was something that I was gonna say when we were talking about the students having that aha moment. I think that's one of the things that makes teaching so much fun is watching the successes of your students, watching the dots being connected when they start to see, oh, so the energetics of the person and the energetics of the herb combined to get like watching those connections being made, it's just like you know, it's the best. It's so exciting. It's so exciting to watch and be a part of and know. Um, and I'm gonna go off on one really short tandem that is not related to herbalism, but it's kind of related to that wonderful feeling. So, one of my students, when I was running the small private school, one of the classes that I taught, this is all based on my oldest son. So he's always been into film, he's a cinematographer now, he does a lot of um film work. So, as he was coming up, one of the things that I could do, because I ran the school, is I started teaching a class about film. Did I know anything about film? Not at all. But we all learned together. We got some amazing grants for some amazing equipment, and we put out a production every year of a film every year. The film was usually about 30 minutes long, it was amazing. So we had one of these students who um then went off to college and changed his major from like philosophy to film. And he low-key was like, Yeah, it was because of Britney's film class. And I was like, say that again, right? And it was just kind of like one of those moments, and like that that is like there is nothing better than that. And so seeing successes of students is just amazing. So that's the the fun thing about um teaching, and I think you have this feeling too that we bring this excitement and this joy to it, and it comes across when we teach people and like they can't help but get excited about it. We're excited, they're excited. Everybody's excited, everybody's excited.

SPEAKER_02 58:41

Like, yes, I I get so giddy about that piece. Like just last night I was teaching an herbal gift giving workshop, which is pretty 101 herbal class. And I used to teach live in my apothecary, and there were students of mine that are now running their own apothecaries. There were students of mine in there that have their own product line and they're still showing up. And I'm like, yay! And then this, you know what, it kind of ties for me. So a lot of people that are listening know I used to run a pretty darn successful herbal product line myself. And what I always loved was those testimonials from people that are like, oh my God, I'm now sleeping seven hours a night. I haven't done that for 15 years or what have you. And they're just getting these mind-blowing to them results from these remedies. And now I get to see that from my students. I get my students that get to come in and say, Oh my God, so-and-so wrote me back. They're so blown away by what I created for them. And like, that's that, like, to me, it's that next level of like giddiness. Yeah, absolutely. It's the making herbalism spread like wildflowers.

SPEAKER_00 59:52

And it's yeah, I was just about to say it's like the ripple effect is going down right, very much so. Yeah, that's it's an amazing, um, wonderful feeling. And it's a it's a wonderful thing to be able to do and to spread this information. Like it's an honor. It is an honor, it really is. So I'm excited to be a part. Thank you.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:11

I am super excited. Oh my gosh, yeah, I'm delighted. So just if you guys are listening and you're like, hot dog, I want people that fun and that educated and that passionate about sharing their wisdom with me, then hit us up. You know, you can reach out to Britney at Euda Pneumonia Herbs on Instagram and you can reach out to me on the herbalist path everywhere. But before we do that, I still have Britney here, and she still has all this insight and herbal knowledge and wisdom. And I would love to hear, Brittany, if you were to give like one piece of your 30 plush years of herbal wisdom to people listening right now. What would it be? Oh my god. So hard, isn't it?

SPEAKER_01 1:00:59

Here I go challenging you.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:01

I know. Um I don't know if this is a cheat of an answer, but herbs work. I mean, that's the one piece I would really say to people. Like people But do they always uh well it depends on what you're talking about and how you're using them, right? If you're so so I think my bottom they're not gonna I love that. Um yes, yes, they do always work. Not always in the way that you think they're going to work. Um, you might have to come to a very roundabout way, and it might not be the result that you're thinking is gonna be. So it's not gonna be out here, you know, stopping your heart attack and mid-heart attack, right? Like, let's get serious because some, you know, I'm not gonna, although I have heard some stories, but I'm not gonna, you know, sit there and be like, oh, you're having a heart attack? Hold on, let me go get my my cayenne tanks for you real quick. Um, that's not gonna be the thing that I'm gonna do. But uh there are there are ways to use herbs to really support symptoms, ailments, conditions, the overall bigger picture, right? Getting to the root of things. So don't doubt it. Don't doubt, like I think in the begin. Okay, okay, I'm gonna I'm gonna wrap this up, I promise. I think in the beginning of my of my journey, and sometimes even now, right? I will uh create something and it it would, I'm like, oh my god, I don't have this problem anymore, you don't have this problem anymore. And that was done by this little thing that I just made, right? And that I think is such a like um type of moment that a lot of students have, and so yes, this is a legit thing, and I want to help you learn it.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:05

I love that, and I'm gonna challenge you yet again. Go for it because or maybe not even challenge you. I'm just going to bring apart or bring out times when herbs may not work and that come off from the top of my head. I'm like, wait, but they don't always work. If they are poor quality herbs that you're trying to use, they are not going to work very well more often than not. If they are poorly matched with the person or the symptom or the situation, they may not work for what you think they're going to do. So, like nuances in your answer.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:40

So that is that is key. And that's part of the thing that you learn in this program, right? So if you learn in uh the right way and you use them the right way, yeah. But if you use them the wrong way or aren't thinking about some of those bigger picture things, absolutely not. If you're using the wrong amount, like you said, poor quality matters. Although this kind of goes back to our our conversation of meet them where they are. You know, I have folks that are like, well, you know, um I don't live near an apothecary and I can't order this thing online or whatever. And can I just go get a box of tea at the store, your twin's or whatever? And I'm like, well, if that's where you are, then that's where you are. If you're going and you're getting, you know, your box of generic chamomile tea, I'm gonna tell you how to utilize that in a little bit of in a way that's gonna be more supportive than just the one little tea bag of those subpar crumbs that are in there. I'll let you know. But I do believe starting somewhere is better than starting nowhere. I love that. Yeah, and so true. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:50

Yeah, that's a that's a whole loaded topic. That's a whole that's a whole classic. Yeah, that's a loaded topic.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:57

Um, as always, it's so much fun to get to chat with you, Brittany. And I mentioned it many times already in this episode, but I'm so excited to move everything we're doing on the herbalist path forward with your support for students and your help with brainstorming on the back end with me and just making really great things happen in the herb world of herbal medicine and making it spread like wildflowers. So let these people know where they can find you.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:29

Cool being. So yeah, eudaimonia herbs. So eudaimonia means to kind of flourish, especially in the in the way of well-being. So I will say that it is, it is a it is a word. I do have to teach people how to say it. So eudaimony herbs.com, it's e-u-d-e-m-o-n-i-a herbs, h-e-r-b s h-e-r-b s dot com. Um, I'm really, really active on Instagram, not as active on TikTok, but I do go in there every now and then. Um uh

Critical Thinking, Tools, And When AI Helps

SPEAKER_00 1:05:57

also, if you're in happen to be in the Baltimore, Maryland area, I teach lots of in-person workshops, everything from uh cocktail mocktail workshops to smokable herbs to herbs of seasonal herbs or you know, things like that. I'm there and I'm teaching them all around the area in the Baltimore City area, that kind of uh place all around Maryland. Um, so yeah, that's the best way that you can can uh get in touch with me. Um, I love uh engaging with folks. So send me a message. Let's talk, let's have open a conversation, like. What are the questions?

SPEAKER_02 1:06:38

Thanks for bringing up the social media. Brittany and I are now live on Tuesdays. On Instagram. So if you do want to come ask your questions, please hang out with us on the live. We're like experimenting with it. Of course, we come with topics to talk about, but like we are there also to help you. So we are doing Instagram at 1 p.m. Pacific Standard Time of 4 p.m. Eastern. And we're there to answer questions for you, to connect with you, and to share herbs. Alright, Bertie, thank you so much. Thank you so much for joining me on this episode of the Herbalist Path. If you're loving this journey and learning all about the various aspects of herbal medicine, be sure to follow and review the show. It helps more people find their own path with herbal medicine. And if you have a friend or know a mama or another budding herbalist who could use this kind of support, please share this episode with them. And that way we can keep making herbalism spread like wildflowers. And a gentle reminder nothing shared on this podcast is intended to diagnose, treat, or cure any disease. All the information is for educational purposes only. And yeah, we throw in some entertainment too. But what it is not, it's a substitute for personalized care from a qualified health practitioner. Always do your own research. Listen to your body. And when needed, partner with a trusted professional who honors both your intuition and your health. Until next time, take care, stay curious, and keep walking down the herbalist path.