Royal Reports from IAPP 26 in DC

On this episode of Serious Privacy with Paul Breitbarth, Ralph O'Brien, and Dr. K Royal, we review high points of the IAPP Summit held in Washington DC. K attended in person and connected with individuals on their take-aways and the keynote speakers - you know, just some people like Prince Harry, Salman Rushdie, and Maya Shankar (plus others, like Serious Privacy guest Prof. Woodrow Hatzog). We also extend our congratulations to Leadership Award winner Alexandra Reeve Givens (president and CEO of the Center for Democracy and Technology) and the Vanguard winners:

• Asia: Charmian Aw
• EMEA: John Bowman (who announced his retirement)
• Latin America (including Mexico): Diego Fernández
• North America (U.S. and Canada): Shana Morgan (beloved guest)
• Oceania: Christopher Rogers 

 We also bring you a little bit of recent news.

If you have comments or questions, find us on LinkedIn and Instagram @seriousprivacy, and on BlueSky under @seriousprivacy.eu, @europaulb.seriousprivacy.eu, @heartofprivacy.bsky.app and @igrobrien.seriousprivacy.eu, and email podcast@seriousprivacy.eu. Rate and Review us!

From Season 6, our episodes are edited by Fey O'Brien. Our intro and exit music is Channel Intro 24 by Sascha Ende, licensed under CC BY 4.0. with the voiceover by Tim Foley.

Transcript

Tim 0:04

You're listening to the award-winning Serious Privacy Podcast sponsored by Trust Ark. Please welcome your hosts, Paul Breitbart, Ralph O'Brien, and Dr. Kay Royal.

Paul 0:17

So you may have wondered why we haven't done an IAPP Global Privacy Summit yet. That is because that is the episode you are about to listen to. But it is slightly different than usual because this year only Kay was able to attend the Global Privacy Summit in DC. Ralph and I were in Europe. I was in Europe for principled reasons. I'm actually not sure about Ralph. I think Ralph had just work, but we'll hear from him in a moment. But today, nevertheless, we will talk about the Global Privacy Summit. Kay will give her report. We'll talk a bit more about the Duke of Sussex, and we'll also talk about some of the other things that happened. And we'll catch you up, of course, as always, on The Weekend Privacy. My name is Pal Breitbart. My name is Ralph O. Bryan.

K 1:02

And I'm Kay Royal, and welcome to Sirius Privacy. Okay, one blurb I have to throw in there before I get to the unexpected question is at IAPP, Joe Jones interviewed Prince Harry on the stage, and he turned to the audience. He said, And by the way, let me translate. This is a Brit interviewing a Brit. When we say privacy, we mean privacy, but we're gonna say privacy. Just to translate for all of you. Okay, unexpected question. What is the least important thing that you cherish as very important to you? So I'll give you an example. So for me, it's my dad's truck keys. Not a very important item at all, but I carry them in my purse. It is very important to me that I have my dad's keys.

Ralph 1:53

I will go similar on that one, actually. I was recently cleaning out some of my grandmother's house, and I managed to find in a cupboard a wooden hobby horse. A wooden hobby horse laid to me when I was very young by my grandfather, painted by my mother, that I used to ride around on when I was four or five years old, which I had completely had forgotten that existed. Wow. And it was only whether, when cleaning out a cupboard, I found this hobby horse, and I must admit, I jumped up and down like a lunatic.

Paul 2:29

So your children didn't even get to play with it?

Ralph 2:31

My children didn't even, but perhaps who knows if they make if they make that choice, theirs might. So it it's now it's now actually hanging up on hooks in my house.

K 2:43

Oh, that's awesome.

Paul 2:44

Very nice.

K 2:45

Paul, what you got? It's a bobblehead, right? It's a bobblehead. I'm pretty sure it's a bobble.

Paul 2:51

No, it's not a bobblehead. I'm sorry, it's not a bobblehead.

K 2:54

It's in case y'all don't remember, I mailed Paul a bobblehead of me and him when he left Trust Art. So I was pretty sure that was going to be his answer. But it's also very important to me, so it would not qualify as a least important item.

Paul 3:08

Exactly. So it's just an important it's just an important item, right? It's in my office. It's right here next to my desk. No, it's actually a really small I it's not even a cuddly toy, but it's it's fabric filled with something. I don't even know how to describe it in English, but it's a really small bear that I think my parents got me. And I yeah. It came up in one of the boxes during the move, and I indeed well just finding that again was like, oh, here it is, made me really happy. So that's also now next to my desk, together with an embroidered dinosaur that the PI team at Trustar gave me when I left, and the small Lego figure that I got from one of the conferences I spoke at representing me. That would be Emma. That would be Emma representing me. So that must have been the first privacy space, actually, that I uh that I got that. So just a few little trinkets.

K 4:08

A few little trinkets that mean the world to you, right?

Paul 4:11

Mm-hmm.

K 4:12

I will show you something else that is not very important at all, but it's very important to me. Dr. Pepper Peeps.

Ralph 4:27

Dr. Pepper Peeps. Okay.

K 4:30

So when I mailed your book that I mailed to the UK, I also mailed peeps to Orciso, who's also in the London area, because of course y'all don't do peeps over there. So over the years that I brought candy, one year I brought peeps, and he said his daughter was on a sugar high from Hades. And so of course I nailed them more peeps. One of them was a pack of butterbeer peeps, and they're nasty. They're gross. But I had to nail them because they're Harry Potter butterbeer peeps. But the Dr. Pepper peeps are actually really good.

Ralph 5:07

I've never been heard of peeps, so I should actually first of all say thank you to Case for sending that book to me. I have absolutely no idea what I'm looking at.

K 5:14

Back to your regularly scheduled programming on the IAPP. So while I was there that Ralph and Paul was not there, I will say that I talked to a lot of people in the elevators, in in the hallways, going to and from sessions about what do you think about this year's IAPP? And essentially it was like it's not bad, but it's not great. Now the keynotes were great. Let me throw that premise out there. The keynotes were great with Salmon Rushdie and Prince Harry and everything. I'll play you a clip on Prince Harry that the IAPP published. Absolutely. That was fantastic. And we had upgraded security. We had to go through weapons things or whatever to go, which on day one, we were all betting, is he going to be here in person or is this going to be like, what's his name? And just call in. But no, he was there in person.

Paul 6:05

So all Sam Oldman, yeah.

K 6:06

Yeah, all the security made us think, ooh, he's probably going to be here in person. So we loved it. But the feeling on the sessions were there were a lot of regulators that weren't there. There were a lot of people from other countries that weren't there. And they hold it in DC because the government people can come if they hold it in DC without having to do any significant travel stuff. But they did have a few sessions with regulators, but it wasn't stacked and packed with the global regulators that we've come to love and adore for my APP. And I know I heard all the reasons why people weren't there, and I completely understand right. However, I did get to meet John Dello from the Philippines.

Paul 6:46

Very nice.

K 6:47

But I met him in the check-in to the hotel line. And so as soon as we introduced, we had to we were next in the line. So I didn't get to grab a picture with them or anything, but I finally got to meet John in person, and that was phenomenal. The feel like I said, the feeling was it's just a weird buy. It's not bad, but it's not great. It's is it worth it?

Paul 7:06

How did it compare to last year? Because I already had a bit of that feeling last year with fewer people attending, also some political tensions on the floor with people being very pro-Israel, people be very anti-Israel, people being pro-Trump, people being anti-Trump.

K 7:24

I will say there was not a leading th I think with what's right now, and not that we had this at the time, but the statement Trump made yesterday about wiping out an entire civilization and it just doesn't count as a war crime. There wasn't a lot of political tension at all.

SPEAKER_02 7:42

Okay.

K 7:43

It was almost as if everybody was in agreement that this conflict with Iran shouldn't be happening. And nobody was bad mouthing anyone, just it was a general feeling of this is ridiculous.

Ralph 7:58

It is interesting because conferences are not the cheapest thing, especially in IAP PP conference. If you're gonna go to a conference, especially like myself, you say you want to travel from the UK to Washington, that's a plane fair. Then there's hotel, then there's food, then there's the conference entry fee itself on occasion. None of which is cheap in DC. None of which is cheap. Right. Then and then you've got to ask yourselves, what's the value? What's the value? As a lot of people know, I Paul and Kay, they work for corporations, but myself, I'm essentially run my own business, and therefore costs are important.

Paul 8:36

Sorry, Ralph. Also, for me, costs are important because corporate my corporation does not pay conference fees. Okay, there you go.

Ralph 8:43

Yeah, there you go. So you've really got to ask yourself what the value you're getting out of this is. And actually, the last few conferences I've been to, the value has always been in the bar. The value has always been meeting someone a check-in, as Kay just said. The value has been holding court in the lobby. Holding court in the pub across the road. Yeah, the pub across the road. In fact, yeah. Yeah. Paul and I, the last IAP last couple of IAPP in Brussels. We've gone to the pub across the road and then literally held court there instead of going to the actual conference. Because as Kay said, when you're a little bit longer in the tooth, and by all means I'm not saying I know everything, but I have found there being not getting a huge amount out of the sessions. And the networking being the value. If you're new, totally get the value. If you're around the block a few times and you're reading these judgments and cases as they come out, yeah, you have to ask where the value is.

K 9:42

Exactly. You do. And frankly, my my company was not altogether thrilled with it anyway. We've put the kibosh on conferences, but I stayed with a friend who covered hotel. So her company would pay for it. So, you know, that those little things help, right? Those little things. And of course, flying from South Carolina is not near as expensive as flying from Arizona. And also helps with costs.

Ralph 10:09

And I've got a hello actually to UK from a gentleman called Andrew McDevitt. I'm not sure if Andrew McDevitt. Yeah. He actually passed you on the escalator. He you you were going up, he was going down, and he didn't actually get a chance to catch you in person.

K 10:22

Yes. And then you get back and you find out all your friends that are there that you didn't see. Like a good friend of mine from Arizona was there. And go figure.

Ralph 10:31

That is important though. We've all been to conferences like Privacy Space that we sometimes call privacy therapy, right? Because actually the value to these things, especially now we're all working remotely, right? So much more done remotely, so much less face-to-face. A lot of training that I do face-to-face is now over the internet. So I do really value that face-to-face time with other data protection professionals. So please don't think I'm undervaluing the that side of the conferences.

K 10:59

Oh no, that that side is critically important. And I think I've made this statement often enough that the people that I do cherish, like Andrew and others, that I do pass in the hallways, is you got to understand how much energy it takes for this severe introvert to actually survive a day at a conference and then try to schedule in things in the evening or an unscheduled coffee or something. Sorry. You got to catch me actually sitting down and be like, stay. I'm going to bring coffee. Just stay where you are. Just don't make it.

Paul 11:34

It's almost like you're a dog.

K 11:36

Exactly. Exactly. Okay. So let me give you some highlights for my APP that were really good. I was texting and sending quotes and screenshots to Paul and Ralph throughout all of the keynotes. So it's fabulous. Let's start off with Woodrow Hartzog, who was also speaking, uh professor that we all know and love here in the U.S. And the end of his statement, as he was going through his segment and showing that this is the protection of humanity. At the end of his, he went, We are the defenders of humanity. And he like yelled it, I probably am not giving him the right quote, but something along those lines. And he cheered and arms up, and of course, we all just cheered and everything like that. So here we go. Salmon Rushdie has a new book out called Knife, which is talking about his experience when he was attacked on stage. And Caitlin Fennessey interviewed him on stage. And when she asked him, how is his privacy impacted by him being attacked? What were his thoughts? He said, first of all, a knife being shoved into your body 30 times, that that's not an invasion of privacy. I don't know what is. Oh, yep, good point. Good point. And he says his first thought was, oh no, my suit.

Tim 12:49

Wow.

K 12:54

Now he also did give us a couple of wonderful quotes from his book. I won't read the whole thing. You know what? Yes, I will. There is a kind of deep happiness that prefers privacy that flourishes out of the public eye, that does not require the validation of being known about. A happiness that is for the happy people alone, that is just by itself enough. And then something strange has happened to the idea of privacy in our surreal time. Instead of being cherished, it appears to have become, for many people in the West, especially young people, a valueless quality. Actually undesirable. If a thing is not made public, it doesn't really exist. Right?

Ralph 13:39

This is something that I've seen. People do often say, and I'll tell a story and somebody will go, pictures or it didn't happen.

K 13:47

True be. Document it.

Ralph 13:50

I'm just telling you a story here about something. That phrase, pictures or it didn't happen, is document it.

K 13:56

You must capture it in time. But he said even year years ago, even before Musk bought Twitter, he deleted it. Because it became more of a room of people with whom you wouldn't want to be in a room with. Like, why am I engaging with people that if we were in or together in a room, I'd leave?

Paul 14:14

So we would say That's a very fair point. And that's indeed also one of the reasons why I left Twitter.

K 14:20

Yeah.

Ralph 14:21

It's really interesting because when you want a platform, when you want to talk to the world, you also have to remember that the internet, not only are you broadcast to the world, but you give the entire world access to you. And exposing yourself to everyone in the whole wide world ever, I'm sure my mother told me that wasn't a good idea.

K 14:39

Our parents probably never envisioned a world where this would be a thing for us to think about. It was more of wear clean underwear in case you have an accident and go to the hospital. Which Salmon did say that too, is my mama always told me to wear clean underwear.

Paul 14:54

Sorry, just it's funny that you say that it's giving people access to you. I also listened to other privacy podcasts, and over the weekend I listened to the latest episode of Daughter the Swedish podcast I was on in the past as well. They have a new episode out with Jamal Ahmed out of the UK talking about his approach to privacy and how we ended up in privacy. And one of the things he was pushing is that it's all about building your own brand and becoming known for what you're doing. And I was sitting there listening, I thought, nope, I don't agree with your approach. Um it's fair, everybody is entitled to their own approach, but working on these issues, sure, we also all build our brand over time.

SPEAKER_02 15:41

Right.

Paul 15:42

But it is not the core point of what we are doing. We are trying to help others with our experience, our knowledge, our understanding of what is happening around the world. This is not for the greater benefit and the greater good of Paul Kay and Ralph. At least not in my view.

K 16:01

Very true.

Paul 16:03

Yeah, so indeed, broadcasting on the internet, giving people access to you, sure, it's some it's something you need to do deliberately. It's not just something that happens inadvertently.

K 16:17

Yeah.

Ralph 16:18

Yeah, it is interesting because there's a lot of recording and surveillance equipment out there already, and you know, the amount of times we caught on cameras too, so it's interesting the people that will then choose to broadcast their life to become influencers. Indeed. And well, talking about people who choose to broadcast their lives and people who don't, I think that probably leads us back to Prince Harry, doesn't it?

Paul 16:39

Yeah, one one more thing. I last week I don't know what got into me, but I thought, oh, I haven't looked myself up on YouTube for a while. I Google myself every once in a while, but I didn't do YouTube for a while. And I found all these videos of webinars I've done and interviews and radio shows. Like, I wasn't even aware that there was video of this, let alone that it was publicly available.

K 17:01

Oh, that's awesome.

Paul 17:03

But somebody I met recently told me that they Googled me and just my first name and my profession and ended up on YouTube and found a video, I think a short clip I did for Trust Stark at some point in in in my old office. And so yeah, I guess that somewhere in the back of my head triggered me on why I wanted to look myself up on YouTube to see just what's out there.

K 17:26

But talking about posting things that you wish you hadn't, when we were in Jersey and that event happened to me, I posted it on LinkedIn and I wrote it like 30 million times, probably literally 30 times before I posted. But I wanted to do something that held me publicly accountable for doing it, and that was committing to going back to the conference the next that next day because I was just mortified and traumatized. And so by posting it and committing it, I'm like, yes, I will do it. I've said so. Once I was on the way to the conference, I deleted it because I'm like, okay, I've upheld my commitment now. I forced myself to go. I'm deleting it before someone at work saw it and said something. But if I didn't want people to see it, I wouldn't. But I wanted that. How am I going to make it to the conference to where I have to publicly commit to doing it because I know me, if I publicly commit to it, I will do it unless something stops me. So it was very difficult. That was a case of making a deliberate choice, but then also deleting it after the commitment happened, right? So after it happened. I get it. Sometimes people do post things that they either regret or they only intend to be temporary. And maybe sometimes it's not that point, right? Sometimes it's not. Okay, let's go to happier news. Before I played the clip from The Prince, they did give away some privacy awards. Um, I hate that they don't give them on stage, but apparently they do a little dinner with their board or something and give them the thing now. But they do have an IAPP Leadership Award now, which went to Alexandra Reed Givens, who's a British American lawyer, apparently, and she's the head of the Center for Democracy and Technology. So she got the Leadership Award.

Paul 19:10

And the daughter of Christopher Reeve, the original Superman.

K 19:14

Oh, there you go. And then for the Vanguard Awards, they now do them by regions. And so for Asia, it was Charmian, for Asia, it was Charmian all. For E M E A, it was John Bowman. For Latin, it was Diego Fernandez. For North America, which is not Mexico, just U.S. and Canada, it was Shana Morgan. We've had her on the podcast before. And for Oceania, how do you pronounce that Oceania? Oceani.

Paul 19:41

ANZ. Australia, New Zealand.

K 19:43

Oceanania. It was Christopher Rogers, who I don't know. Go figure. So congrats to all of them. They're compatriots of ours. Very much well deserved for those that we know, for those that we don't, I'm sure I trust the IAPP that they were very well deserved.

Ralph 19:59

And the great John Bowman is actually retiring. He announced today. He announced the other day that he's retiring. So best of luck to John and his future endeavors.

Paul 20:10

That's a lot of experience leaving the industry.

K 20:13

It will be a shame not seeing him at future events. So I don't know what he's going to do in the future. I'm sure he can't just not work. We've all met John. He can't just not work.

Paul 20:24

I guess that's applies to us as well.

K 20:27

Yeah, we can't. I'm trying to think, go through our Slack channel, see if there was anything else that I really posted about that stood up.

Paul 20:34

There is one thing I came across in one of the reports that the IAPP put out. There was a panel, as there always is, about cross-border data transfers, where the US government also made some announcements on the data privacy framework between the EU and the US and the UK and Switzerland. There is an uptick in registrations and self-certifications. So over 3,500 US companies have now signed on to the DPS, with 60% being SMEs, and 47% of organizations have fewer than 100 employees. That's interesting, but more interesting for me is that we actually also have the first redress cases. And that's not something where we had any publicity before. Obviously, there is now the US Data Protection Review Court that would look at those redress cases. Details are scarce, also because the cases are still being adjudicated. But the first case, in any case, has already been reviewed by the Privacy and Civil Liberties Officer of ODNI, so the Office of the Director of National Intelligence, and the other case has not been through the review process. That's still pending. And then they would end up before the review court as well. But it's interesting that people are actually using the system or maybe testing the system. We'll see about that. But it's it's it's good.

Ralph 22:00

I don't believe the review court has been fixed yet, has it? Wasn't because there was some problems with the representatives from the Democrats being launched because of the Trump administration. I I I hadn't understood that had been fixed as yet.

Paul 22:14

Wasn't that PCLOP? Yeah. Privacy and Civil Liberties Oversight Board, which is again separate from the review court. Apologies. Yeah. No, there are so many entities involved here, some of which are functional and some of which are not, that it's you are probably not the only one wondering.

Ralph 22:30

And the only other one that I picked up was in Brazil about the a resolution for AI and data protection in medicine in Brazil.

K 22:42

Yeah.

Ralph 22:43

A risk-based AI governance standard for Brazilian medicine linking the life cycle controls of systems with the principles of the LGPD applicable to sensitive health data. CFM resolution number two, 1454 of 2026. Haven't looked at the detail of that yet because I don't do an awful lot in Brazil, but it's interesting to see that convergence of AI, data protection, medicine in Brazil, which as we know has the LGPD is largely very similar to the GDPR. Yeah.

K 23:17

Nice. Very nice.

Paul 23:18

Okay, Kay. Done with the suspense.

K 23:21

I love it. Some of the other speakers that were really good was Maya Schenkar, who is a cognitive scientist, and she gave a lot of really good information. One or two I think I took a photo of. Let me pull this up. One of the things that she said was today's AI models are 300 times more efficient than state of the art from two years ago. So if you needed something to scare you, there is something that could scare you right there. And then a guy that drives public policy for Google was there. I can't think of his name. For the life of me, maybe it's Deion Woods Bell. I don't know. Anyway, don't get me wrong in that. He head of public policy for Google, he was there. It sounded like an extended sales pitch, but he was putting up slides saying privacy by innovation. Trust is key. Okay. And then last was Allison, not last, but Alison Stoner, who was a child actress who is now a big proponent of protecting children. I think I mentioned it in passing last week that children develop uh a digital identity before they even develop really a physical identity of who they were, who they are based on their cognitive awareness. She was fascinating, absolutely fascinating. And so let me pull up this IAPP recording. We might decide to cut it down a little bit, but let me see if y'all can hear this.

SPEAKER_02 24:47

As well as being passionate about these issues, I sense, I hear, and having spoken with you, there's hope. You have hope that we can do this. And when you lie awake at night, if you lie awake at night, thinking about these issues and how complex they are, how hard they are, on your speech, how straightforward they are, what gives you hope? Everybody in this room.

SPEAKER_04 25:14

Oh Judah, like I had no idea there were so many people working on this issue. And I am sure that most days I am assuming most days are hard days where perhaps you're always in kept awake at mind because of what you're saying, what you know is wrong, and that you're trying to fix it. But perhaps within the industry, the institution, the company that you're working in, that your voice isn't out, that your budget is smell, there's a whole list of other factors. But I would just like to say everybody in this room, thank you for everything that you're doing. And yes, when you're taking on powerful institutions, it is like turning an oil tackle. And you just have to stick with it. The longer you stick with it, the more you stick with it, and the more you come together to achieve that goal, the faster it will happen. And by this point, it's already taken far too long. But I don't feel like we're on the cusp of something transformational. And as I also mentioned at the beginning at the top of my speech, I actually think that the privacy issue is by no means can contain to just privacy. I think if we fix the privacy issue, there are global consequences that will help heal this ever-troubled world that we live in.

Paul 26:36

Now you can see why that resonated so strongly with everybody in the room, knowing that someone, unfortunately of such visibility, trusts us to Yeah, and just for those of you who haven't seen the video accompanying this, this is just somebody speaking freely. This is not prepared remarks, this is not read from paper. Um this is obviously something he really feels deep down. And you can I think everybody has an opinion about the British royal family and everything that's going on there, and maybe also about the Duke of Sussex himself and what he has or hasn't done. Or the Duchess. But when you when you hear somebody like this and when you grow up in the public eye, we mentioned it last week as well, just as a kid walking behind the coffin of your mum with a billion people around the world watching live on television what's happening while you are just grieving about your mother just dying in a car accident. Growing up in the public eye like that, that must have that must have consequences. It resonated with me.

K 27:46

You got us all.

Ralph 27:48

Yeah, it it did. Whatever you think about the royal family, they were born into their roles and therefore they haven't had a choice. Or perhaps Harry has taken his choice by leaving and heading to the US and leaving his royal responsibilities behind because of the public focus, the public eye. And I don't think anyone wants to be photographed wherever they go or on the beach with their family in their most private moments, let alone grieving in public, as Paul quite rightly says. I remember it very clearly. I was a lot younger man at the time, and I actually went and grabbed hold of my mum when because what I remember about it was just the flowers, and they didn't say Princess Diana or anything like that. They just said mum. And I actually went and grabbed hold of my mother at the time and had a real moment because that so that day really resonated with me. I can still remember it. And of course he was a young man back there, young younger than me, but I really felt that empathy at that point. And then to grow up and grow older, and then have all these court cases with the press intrusion, which means you know that you've got someone with real lived experience of what privacy can do.

K 28:59

Yeah. Or a lack thereof.

Ralph 29:01

Or lack thereof, yeah. The quote that I saw posted online from that same interview that I really liked was what hasn't failed isn't the technology, it's the alignment between power, incentives, and responsibility. Because power, especially at this scale, demands responsibility. And when responsibility is absent, harm becomes predictable and inevitable.

K 29:26

Yeah.

Paul 29:26

That could have been taken literally from the court cases against Meta in the US these past couple of weeks. Yeah, it's the same story. Trevor Burrus, Jr.

K 29:34

He talked about those. He talked about that because, of course, that had just happened the week before. And he talked about finally we may see some of these movers in the space be held accountable for what they're doing. He said, we all know they're going to appeal it. We all know that.

Paul 29:52

I'm not holding my breath, but I'm hopeful.

K 29:54

But it doesn't mean they're going to win. And it doesn't mean that all these lawsuits and all the other states and all the other countries, someone is going to succeed, right? Someone is going to hold them accountable at some point. Might not be during our lifetime, but that happens so quickly. How do we know what's coming in the next 10 years? And it may be completely obsolete.

Paul 30:14

Aaron Powell And so some of us may have been skeptical or even cynical about Prince Harry being invited as a keynote speaker at the IAPP, but having heard this, I think they actually had good reason to invite him. And he made a good point that fits our community.

K 30:29

Yeah. It was interesting that he didn't know that there was this many people working for privacy.

Paul 30:36

Some of his staff must have told him, right?

K 30:38

You're a privacy humanitarian, I guess would be the best way of putting it. And you don't know about the IAPP. But that part aside, now he knows.

SPEAKER_02 30:48

True enough.

K 30:49

Now he knows. And if he starts a nonprofit, maybe he'll hire me. You never know. I'm gonna be honest, I applied to be the privacy person for the Obama Foundation. I'll make that public. I threw my name in the hat, it went nowhere. Yeah, it was like right down through the bottom and out the door. But you have to apply for something like that.

Ralph 31:08

I agree.

K 31:09

Yeah.

Ralph 31:10

I think in the back of all of our minds, we want to make money, we want to keep the lights on, but our raisin d'etre should be to make a difference, to move the needle. Yeah.

K 31:20

And let's be honest, we're blessed, right? We're blessed that we can make our living doing something we love. A lot of people don't have that blessing. We do.

Ralph 31:28

This is very true.

Paul 31:30

Amen.

Ralph 31:30

Yeah, this is very true.

Paul 31:32

So on that note, we'll wrap up another episode. Thank you all for listening, and we'll be back with a guest next week. Goodbye.

Tim 31:42

Now that was serious privacy. Please subscribe on your favorite podcast app and leave us a review. You can find us on LinkedIn, Instagram, and Blue Sky as Serious Privacy. Feel free to drop us a question or a comment. We'd love to hear from you.