In this fascinating and eye-opening discussion, Dr. Alan Chan introduces us to the world of drug compounding for animals. This has life-changing implications for humans, as well.
Learn more about Golden Gate Veterinary Compounding Pharmacy at ggvcp.pharmacy.
The Pharmacy Compounding Accreditation Board (PCAB) website has an easy-to-use finder for your closest accredited compounding pharmacy. Note that some of the pharmacies may not specialize in animal care. Confirm that they do before using their services for your pet or livestock.
Celebrate 5 years of Rosie Fund by supporting our campaign to sponsor 50 dogs. You can donate on our website or Facebook page. You can also contribute by making a purchase from the store on our website or buying a t-shirt at Bonfire.com.
Visit RosieFund.org for links to all of our social media, including our free YouTube channel. Please subscribe to our channel to help us secure the Rosie Fund URL.
Music for this episode is provided by alternative string duo, The Wires. Visit them at TheWires.info. Learn fiddle and cello-fiddle online — even if you've never played before — from Laurel Morgan Parks and Sascha Groshang at FiddleLife.com.
Recent guest Ashley Schanz is now online at schanzssketchbook.com in addition to her Facebook Page Schanz’s Sketchbook. You can commission Ashley to sketch a beautiful memento of your pet with the proceeds benefiting charities. This makes a great gift, especially if you know someone who has lost a pet. Please use the keyword “Rosie” when you contact Ashley if you want Rosie Fund to be the beneficiary charity.
The transcript for this episode is available on the Dog Words Buzzsprout page: Buzzsprout.com/840565.
Make a donation at RosieFund.org or through our Facebook page. You can contribute by making a purchase from the store on our website or buying a t-shirt at Bonfire.com. Also check out our page on BarkYours, the online mall with gifts for people who love their dogs.
Rosie Fund online:
RosieFund.org
Facebook.com/rosiefund
Instagram.com/rosiefund
YouTube.com/rosiefund
In this fascinating and eye-opening discussion, Dr. Alan Chan introduces us to the world of drug compounding for animals. This has life-changing implications for humans, as well.
Learn more about Golden Gate Veterinary Compounding Pharmacy at ggvcp.pharmacy.
The Pharmacy Compounding Accreditation Board (PCAB) website has an easy-to-use finder for your closest accredited compounding pharmacy. Note that some of the pharmacies may not specialize in animal care. Confirm that they do before using their services for your pet or livestock.
Celebrate 5 years of Rosie Fund by supporting our campaign to sponsor 50 dogs. You can donate on our website or Facebook page. You can also contribute by making a purchase from the store on our website or buying a t-shirt at Bonfire.com.
Visit RosieFund.org for links to all of our social media, including our free YouTube channel. Please subscribe to our channel to help us secure the Rosie Fund URL.
Music for this episode is provided by alternative string duo, The Wires. Visit them at TheWires.info. Learn fiddle and cello-fiddle online — even if you've never played before — from Laurel Morgan Parks and Sascha Groshang at FiddleLife.com.
Recent guest Ashley Schanz is now online at schanzssketchbook.com in addition to her Facebook Page Schanz’s Sketchbook. You can commission Ashley to sketch a beautiful memento of your pet with the proceeds benefiting charities. This makes a great gift, especially if you know someone who has lost a pet. Please use the keyword “Rosie” when you contact Ashley if you want Rosie Fund to be the beneficiary charity.
The transcript for this episode is available on the Dog Words Buzzsprout page: Buzzsprout.com/840565.
Make a donation at RosieFund.org or through our Facebook page. You can contribute by making a purchase from the store on our website or buying a t-shirt at Bonfire.com. Also check out our page on BarkYours, the online mall with gifts for people who love their dogs.
Rosie Fund online:
RosieFund.org
Facebook.com/rosiefund
Instagram.com/rosiefund
YouTube.com/rosiefund
DR. CHAN 0:03
In hindsight, if I knew about the veterinary compounding pharmacy and what it could do, we could definitely elongated her life and give her a better quality of life, as well.
PHIL 0:17
I'm Phil Hatterman, and this is Dog Words presented by Rosie Fund. today Dr. Alan Chan from Golden Gate Veterinary Compounding Pharmacy explains an alternative to traditional drug delivery. After listening, you’ll question why this is not more common for humans and animals alike.
If you're new to this podcast, in each episode, we explore the world of dog care and companionship. “We save each other” is the motto of Rosie Fund, which simply means the more we do for dogs, the more they do for us, and they already do a lot. If you love dogs, you'll love Dog Words. We welcome your comments, questions and suggestions. Go to the podcast page at RosieFund.org. To share your thoughts. We welcome suggestions for topics and guests. That's the only way we know which ones you like, then we'll try to deliver more of that. Please download, subscribe, and most importantly, share Dog Words. Please follow Rosie Fund on social media. Subscribe to the free Rosie Fund YouTube channel that offers great videos of Rosie, Peaches and shelter dogs, including some exclusive content.
Celebrate five years of Rosie Fund by supporting our campaign to sponsor 50 dogs. You can donate on our website or Facebook page. You can also contribute by making a purchase from the store on our website or buying a t-shirt Bonfire.com. Links are in the description.
This episode of Dog Words as well as our previous two episodes interviews with Leib Dodell from Bar K Dog Bar and Stephanie Robinson from Lucky 13 Rescue have transcripts available on our Buzzsprout page linked in the description. The automated transcription is fairly accurate but it is necessary to review each document before posting to make sure there aren't any substantive errors. So it will take some time to get all of our archived episodes transcripted. If there is an episode you would like moved to the top of the list. Let us know at RosieFund.org.
Next time on dog woods, Kansas City, Missouri's chief of Animal Services April Moore discusses the city's transition from focusing on animal control to animal welfare.
The mission of Rosie Fund is to provide humans with the resources and education they need to give senior and harder to adopt dogs a better life. We thank you for joining our mission.
Today's guest on Dog Words is Dr. Alan Chan, who is quality assurance manager and compounding pharmacist with Golden Gate Veterinary Compounding Pharmacy. Welcome to the show, Alan.
DR. CHAN 2:47
Thank you. Thank you for having me. Excited to be here.
PHIL 2:50
Our description of what you do may have lost some of our listeners, they might be a little confused with being a compounding pharmacist and working for a compounding pharmacy. So if you're listening to this and you don't know what compounding is, you're not alone. We're going to explain it. But first I have some other questions for our guest. Because this show is Dog Words I'd like to ask do you have dogs?
DR. CHAN 3:13
I had dogs growing up here in California. Most recently - they all passed due to old age. The most recent ones - I had I had three at a time - I had a Siberian Husky. I had a Papillon mix, that was a rescue. And we also have a Pomeranian - teacup Pomeranian that my wife bought. So we had three the most recent times. When I was growing up when I was a kid I had a German Shepherd mix. We also had a Queensland healer at the time. So one of my dogs, Kiki, who's my Husky passed away because of a heart tumor. At the time I didn't know about even - as a pharmacist - I didn't know there was veterinary compounding pharmacy. The veterinarian also didn't know about this. So she ended up prescribing the wrong medication. And also, basically, in short, my puppy ended up passing away on her ninth birthday. And in hindsight, if I knew about vetinary compounding pharmacy and what it could do, we could definitely elongated her life and give her a better quality of life, as well. So I am very passionate about this.
PHIL 4:20
Incidents like those that you just described are so tragic and heartbreaking. And anyone who's lost a pet, just to natural causes, old age, it's devastating. But when there's a situation where you feel like, "Oh, we could have done more if we'd have only known." Fact is you did the best you could with the information you have.
DR. CHAN 4:45
Right.
PHIL 4:45
But what you've turned that into is instead of just saying, "That's so unfortunate, I wish it hadn't happened." And then just going on with your life. You are helping so many other animals and there owner's avoid the tragedy that you had to face. So thank you for that, using that as fuel for helping others. And we've had so many guests on our show who do that. So thank you for being one of those. We've had many veterinarians and veterinary technicians even on the show who took varying paths to their professions, some knowing they always wanted to work with animals. Some just kind of finding their way to that. As a pharmacist, that I don't think is a career path that many young people are aware of that it can lead to working in the animal industry. What was your path to becoming a pharmacist and then ultimately working with drug compounding for animals?
DR. CHAN 5:49
Yeah, that's an excellent question. Because I think I think to your point that you're correct. Not too many student pharmacists even know that there's this option of veterinarian compounding practice. So for me, I've always been a dog lover and animal lover. At the same time, I'm kind of a nerd. When it comes to, you know, chemistry,
PHIL 6:09
I was gonna say with the science involved with becoming a pharmacist, being a nerd will serve you well.
DR. CHAN 6:15
So I mean, I chose compounding as my career because I really enjoyed able to physically make and customize patient-specific medication from scratch. Kind of like when you're in the kitchen, you're cooking, you're whipping things up. Compounding practice in pharmacy is traditionally it was what the foundation of pharmacy is supposed to be. Treating patients, as individuals with specific needs, instead of going to, you know, like a big box, pharmacy store and get a commercially available product and trying to get what you need that is not specific for you.
PHIL 6:49
If people can picture It's a Wonderful Life. That's what Mr. Gower did in Gower's drugstore. That he was mixing up specific chemicals. He wasn't just counting pills and putting them in a bottle.
DR. CHAN 7:02
Correct. Correct. That is a good analogy.
PHIL 7:04
He did it poorly as a plot point in the movie. But still, I think, as you indicate, traditionally, that's what pharmacists did.
DR. CHAN 7:14
Yeah, yeah, you're right. And you know, one of the most notable part of what I love doing about my job, is the opportunity to really partner with the experts in their respective fields, whom they are very focused on getting their patients back to healthy and we get to work together to figure out the root causes of the disease. And one of the ways to do that is to really get customized medications for your pets, for your patients. So I'm very happy. And it is an honor to be the partner to make positive things happen.
PHIL 7:47
The pharmacy that I take most people are familiar with, and I don't even have to name all the chains, they're aware of them. You do get your consult, briefly, when you pick up a prescription that's more than just like a prescription painkiller. And they go through like contraindications and ask if you have any questions and give you this huge piece of paper with six point font on it and say, "Do you understand all of this that goes on with your drug?" But as far as the consultation that you're talking about working with veterinarians, working with those doctors to come up with a treatment plan, I don't think most people are aware that that kind of interaction is a possibility for human drug treatment, let alone for animals. That it's more than just, again, counting out the pills that the doctor's nurse has phoned in to the pharmacy.
DR. CHAN 8:43
That is correct. That is correct. That is definitely correct.
PHIL 8:45
So really, what is the scope of compounding? Again, I don't think most of our listeners are even aware what this even means. So walk us through what, in general is compounding and then we'll drill down on how this applies to animals.
DR. CHAN 9:00
Yeah, absolutely. So the practice of compounding pharmacy in general also including human compounding, as well. In short, it's a custom-making medications tailor to the patient's specific needs. So going a little bit deeper in the veterinary world, our patients are very unique. So while patient comes in different species, like dogs, cats, we have lions, tigers, penguins, monkeys, giraffes and so forth, physiology at different sizes at different different sensitivity to different medication, different chemicals that are potentially in commercially available product if you walk into a human pharmacy. So some of these things, we can make it very specific for the patient to custom make it. So compounding pharmaciy is a lot more technical, compared to if you walk into a big box chain human pharmacy. So our interaction with our patients and veterinarians are typically a lot more involved than a even a typical retail chain pharmacy. Because each therapy is customized. So there is definitely a bit of educating and introducing ourselves to our patients, our owners and our zookeepers of what exactly is involved in this whole process. What is compounding pharmacy? Why is it important in veterinary medicine? So some sometimes even some veterinarians just don't know that we exist so that we can help them maximize that patient's therapeutic outcomes.
PHIL 10:27
Yeah, if your classmates when you were pre-pharm and pharmacy didn't even know about some of these options, how would a veterinarian know?
DR. CHAN 10:37
Yeah, they definitely have to do some research and soul searching to see what you want to get into as a student. When I was a student, I definitely had to do some soul searching to see what's available that would fit my personality. This is a special niche veterinary compounding.
PHIL 10:51
How significant is the difference between a compounding drug and the readily available commercial drug option?
DR. CHAN 10:59
Do you know that what causes about 75% of veterinary treatment fails?
PHIL 11:04
No.
DR. CHAN 11:05
Its number one cause is non-compliance. So you go to the doctor's office, or you take your pet that's sick to your veterinary office, you want him to get well. So because of all these differences, we are here to make - custom make these type of special medications for each specific patient, because there's just not enough commercial products out there to address our patients. And there's just not also financially, for them from a pharmaceutical industry standpoint, that they just don't have that much incentive to develop and research these type of medications for pets, and animals.
PHIL 11:46
And also, the experience that we've had, particularly with our dog Peaches, is, she will decide she doesn't like a particular pill. And you can only fool her once - I've talked about this before on the show. So you can put it in a pill pocket. And she'll eat it once. And then you can put it in a hot dog, she'll eat it once. In peanut butter and everything. Pizza pockets, and with chicken and rice, smear it with bacon grease. So there's about a dozen things you can do. But if she has to take more than 10 or 12 pills. She's recovering from a surgery. So there's maybe multiple pills those first few days, and then other pills that extend out for a couple weeks. You get three or four days in and she's not taking the pills anymore. With a human, I think people are more likely to go back to the doctor and say, "My spouse or my child isn't taking this, what do we do?" And they'll come up with something I would imagine with a lot of pet owners. It's like, "Oh, well, I guess we're done with the pills." But there was a reason those pills were prescribed. Does compound and give an option for delivering them in a way that would make the user more compliant with the veterinarian's instructions?
DR. CHAN 13:06
Oh, yes, absolutely. Would you brought up a point that it's probably one of most, the biggest challenge as an owner, as a zookeeper, on how to make my pet more compliant because of compliance difficulties. For example, you mentioned that, you know, if you're pet is going to be taking 10 pills, for example, compounding pharmacy, what we can do, we can customize even the strength and the specific dosing, meaning that we can even increase the strength so there'll be less volume or less pills you give to your pet. And we can change it in different dosage form. For example, if your pet likes to have a chew treat, that's bacon flavor we can certainly put it into that. We can - certain medication - we can put it in a micro tablet that's fast melting and dissolves right away. We can do that as well. We also have target specific medications. For example, for dogs, the number one cause of office visit is canine otitis, which is ear infection. We also have targeted medication for that that's administered directly. And we also have things like that for cats as well and other animals. So we can definitely adjust and customize the dosage form, their strength. We can even reformulate it, if needed, if your pet is allergic to certain type of ingredients. So yeah, there's all kinds of customization. And that is where we come in. And we consult with your veterinarian office or your veterinarians to see what approach is best for your pet. And also, we also talked to the owner to see - the first thing we check as well first, "How is your relationship with your dog?" Because if your dog doesn't trust you, then we have to try different ways. I mean, there's different - we tried to customize even the approach and not just a medication on how to make sure we are all on the same page of getting your pet back to healthy lives.
PHIL 14:58
If veterinarians don't know about this, and hopefully more veterinarians will be listening to this podcast, but certainly the pet owners who are listening, this may be opening their eyes that, "Drug compounding is something I need to take advantage of because of the experience I've either had or that I'm currently having with administering drugs to my dog." Do they just need to tell their vet or do they need to contact the pharmacy? Or even how do they find a pharmacy that does this and know that it's the right pharmacy for them?
DR. CHAN 15:31
Yeah, it's, I think it's a great question. Some vets do not know about compounding pharmacy. So it's great that if you as the listener, and also owners, ask your vet, to see if there are any compounding pharmacy in your area that specializes in veterinarian compounding. So that's one way to go. Of course, you can always go on the internet, go on Google and search the pharmacy that you want to use the compounding pharmacy you want to use. That's another way to do that. And of course, we also are reaching out to our veterinarian partners, and to make sure that they understand what benefits we bring to their practice and how to treat their patients more effectively.
PHIL 16:13
Google has made all of our lives easier, finding restaurants or - when we can go to restaurants - and all kinds of services and getting definitions and stuff. But as far as the vetting, that's not always that reliable online. So even if someone does Google compounding pharmacies, how do they know which is the right one for them?
DR. CHAN 16:37
That's a great question, Phil. It is very important to find the right vetinary compounding pharmacy instead of finding just any compounding pharmacy that also compounds, human pharmacy but they dabble in veterinary medicine from time to time. Because there are some potential issues with human medicine that be could be toxic or poisonous to animals. So we want to make sure that you choose a veterinary compounding pharmacy specifically that does veterinary medicine only. And and once you find a couple of candidates, you probably want to go into a couple things that you can get through. For example, are they PCAB accredited? So PCAB - short for Pharmacy Compounding Accreditation Board - it's basically a seal of accreditation that meets national quality standards for compounding here in the United States have to meet stringent safety, compliance and quality standards. So what this means is basically, this pharmacy who gets a PCAB accreditation, there's there's quite a few out there, the chemicals and medicine we're using coming from highly reliable suppliers. Pharmacists and technicians receive regular and specialized training. The facility must meet the design and other related standards to help ensure the area is clear and free of contamination. For example, we have a lab here, we have state of the art clean room with a negative pressure room, that and the state of the art equipments and make sure everything is clean, and it's proper. We have hood on everything that need it. Make sure the pharmacy - the facility - have to meet or exceed the USP 795 standards. I don't wanna get too much into technical, but this is all the regulations to keep you and your pet safe. So that's PCAB accreditation...
PHIL 18:24
It's a real accreditation. It's not just you've paid marketing dollars to be on their list. That they actually vet each pharmacy that is on the list. I say that because I belong to professional organizations, some of which are meaningful, and some are just cashing your check.
DR. CHAN 18:44
Correct. So this is they actually send auditors come here. And we have to continue to pass certain tests to be able to qualify to use this accreditation. So that's one of the most important when you're choosing a veterinary compounding pharmacy to have PCAB accredited. In addition to PCAB accredited, they want to make sure that there's a quality assurance policy and a program in place. These - you may not be able to find on Google, likely you won't be able to find Google, they may have a blurb about it on the About Us page, for example. But you want to make sure that when you call the pharmacy make sure that you ask them, "How's your quality or why should we use you?" It's fair questions because you're taking care of your pet. It's your family member. You don't want to just Yelp a place or Google a place that, "Hey, you know, we'll just try this plays out. You know, if it doesn't work." It's you don't want to do that with your own doctor, do ya?
PHIL 19:34
No, absolutely not. Yeah. Oddly enough, some people don't. They just don't want to make a fuss. And that's unfortunate if they are that either uncomfortable with having that conversation and being that committed to their own well-being. But with a pet, you have taken responsibility to do what's best for that animal. And if you think it's going to be an uncomfortable conversation, well suck it up. You have this responsibility, and, and the good pharmacist or veterinarian should welcome those questions.
DR. CHAN 20:18
Absolutely. These are good questions to ask your veterinarian to see if they know any compounding veterinary compounding pharmacy, the good ones to refer to and you can ask some of these questions. Another point I want to bring up when you research for your veterinary compounding pharmacy is how available the pharmacists in terms of not just for patient consultation, because like I mentioned, we are here to make sure that your pets get well even after we can dispense the medication. So if you have any question at any point in time, during the therapy, we want you to give us a call. We want to be part of that because we are part of the medical team. A lot of times it will be harder to reach the veterinarians than us. So we are here to help you. Also, how available are the pharmacists to have clinical consultations with the veterinarian, like recommending therapies and looking at CNS reports and things like that. That is one of the key things, how we can partner up the back end of things that we do as pharmacists that the public generally don't get to see. Another thing to look for when you vet, a veterinary compounding pharmacy is how fast is the medication turnaround time, because this is an important question. If there's an antibiotic that you need as urgent medication, you want to make sure that the compound get made quickly, and probably ships out within 24 to 48 hours. Otherwise, you'd probably have need to get a bridge therapy from the doctor's office to hold them through until you get the full supply. So that is a key question, too. How their customer service because that's also linked to the access to pharmacists. If you have to call a veterinary compounding pharmacy, for example, and you have to wait 20 minutes on hold to ask the questions, that's not going to make a pharmacist being very accessible. These are some of the most important things and also ask you a vetinary compounding pharmacy, "Do you have any big clients? Do you have any notable clients?" Like for example, for us, we have San Francisco Zoo as a client Humane Society, University of California Davis, the vet hospital UC San Francisco, as well. Academy of Science Monterey Bay Aquarium and so forth. So you want to make sure that they have notable clients because there's a trust level that's also involved with that with the quality because quality can be different in different compounding pharmacies. So that's why I'm listing all these things for to help you to guide you on how to find the proper vet compounding pharmacy.
PHIL 22:39
And I'm going to try and find one locally for us. Because when you need a treatment, typically time is of the essence. You don't have a week to get this figured out. My dog is in surgery right now. So when I get the prescriptions, I need to know if these are going to work for my dog. And not two or three days later when the dog's not taking the medication. And then, "Okay, well, we got to figure something out." It's like, well, then you've wasted valuable time. I think it would be good planning for our listeners to find that pharmacy now. And don't wait until you're sitting in the lobby at the veterinarian's office.
DR. CHAN 23:22
Correct. So, definitely ask about how long it takes to custom make that medication. What is the turnaround time. For example, ours, if it's a new prescription, we send it out the same day generally, if not, the next day, depending on what time we get the prescription in and confirmed. And you definitely want to ask about how their operations.
PHIL 23:41
Well, I'm going to take a shortcut. Because you said ask, "Who are your big clients?" I'm going to go right to the source because I know a few people who work at the Kansas City Zoo, and I'm going to ask them, "Who does your compounding?" And it might not be anyone I have access to but if it is, well, then my search is done.
DR. CHAN 24:00
And you can definitely ask the zoo hospital, it should have some references.
PHIL 24:04
That's a great idea. I really don't see any downside for the veterinarian. That we've had non traditional treatment options discussed on this show before such as chiropractic and acupuncture and one would hope all veterinarians would just want what is best for the animals. But there might be some who are a little defensive about, "Well, that's a treatment method that I'm not comfortable with or that's unproven or I haven't seen the studies." But with compounding, it offers benefits for the animal but it's - I don't see how it would be stepping on the veterinarians toes in any way. They should be 100% on board with this once they find out about it.
DR. CHAN 24:47
Yeah, so you're right there was generally no downside is because we partner with your vendor. And so essentially when the vendor and census a prescription or when they give us a call code for consultations, they are in fact, bring us on board as an extension of their care team. This means that we become - we as compounding pharmacists and pharmacy - become part of their team to be there to support them and their therapy. So our goal is not just to make a medication, dispense it, but also to follow through with the whole process, making sure that you have any questions answered. If a doctor have any questions, it is answered. We're there to support them all the way through.
PHIL 25:29
What are some treatment options that compounding provides that perhaps might not be obvious based on the limited knowledge that our listeners have so far, just on what you've shared with us?
DR. CHAN 25:41
Yeah, like I can give you an example. One of the top causes for canines going to the doctor's office is canine otitis, which is ear infection. So let's say for example, if your puppies refuses to take antibiotics orally, so we custom make a combo ear medication antibiotics for your puppy to specifically target the specific bacteria that is causing the infection in the specific ear, maybe even both years. So the antibiotics that - the ear antibiotics that we make, it's a biphasic gel. So this is very interesting. It's developed and designed to administer as a liquid directly into the long ear canals. And once the liquid reaches the site of the infection in their ear canal, it is designed to solidify in place and releases the active medication directly to the targeted site of the infection just over the next few days as it melts away. So this is a targeted approach that is effective, not only to decrease the risk of side effects, if you are taking it orally, you know, if you take it orally, you can have potential GI issues, vomiting, diarrhea, could be messy. It also directly treats the site of infection, meaning it's a lot more effective and much more faster in recovery time, and also decreased your costs and medication and doctor's office bill.
PHIL 27:03
And you don't want to overuse antibiotics. Of course, you know this, and I hope most of our listeners know this, because that can create strains of infections, bacteria, virus, etc, that are resistant to antibiotics. So having something that is specific and targeted is, to some extent going to mitigate that downside of using antibiotics.
DR. CHAN 27:27
Yeah, that is correct. So one of the things that we work really closely with a lot of the veterinarians - a lot of listeners may not be aware of is that because we partner with your vendors, we sometimes the veterinarians will send us their lab reports, for example, the cultural and sensitivity report, and then we will look at it to see hey, let's see which medication would be the most effective, which combination of medication would be most effective, and what concentration would be most effective to treat this, and then we'll consult with the veterinarians and then we'll make our recommendations. And then we'll go from there. For example, like and ofloxacin, it's a good drug that we use for a lot of the canine otitis that we use to target ear infections. So this is one of the medication that we can make in combination, usually two or three, sometimes even four medication into the formulation that we use as a target approach. So everything is specific, we not just have a menu and you choose from it, we talk to your doctor, make sure that this is the right approach and we are on the same page. And we explain this to donor. Educate. And so we everyone's on the same page, and then we'll approach this together as a team approach.
PHIL 28:39
I have a question that could be kind of loaded. So I'm not going to ask it as a question. I'm going to make a statement. And you can choose to clarify if I'm off base on this.
DR. CHAN 28:51
Sure
PHIL 28:51
Anytime there is either another treatment option that people hadn't considered or a additional treatment, even though people love their pets, cost is a consideration when you're making these decisions. An initial reaction might be, "Well, this is obviously more expensive because it's more complicated." But my assumption would be if Peaches is only taking five of the 32 pills she was supposed to take, I've still bought 32 pills. So if compounding means that she's actually getting the medication, that is a better investment. But also, if you get the treatment, that, for instance, with what you're describing with an ear infection that is very targeted and specific and treats that issue, then it's taken care of. Whereas if the dog's not taking the medication, you're going to have to have another vet visit. This issue isn't going away or it may cause other issues as the pet is compensating for their ear infection or their joint inflammation or whatever their issue might be. I don't really see costs being a factor that would discourage someone from compounding. It seems like there would be cost benefits to using drug compounding. Does that make sense?
DR. CHAN 29:38
Correct. Yes. That makes sense.
PHIL 30:06
I don't know, based on regulatory laws and stuff, if you can say that. But I host the show. So I can say whatever I want. And you can tell me to go pound sand that I'm way off base if necessary.
DR. CHAN 30:29
You know, that's a great question. Because that's - we get a lot of questions from our owners, "How can we minimize the cost?" Because it cause a lot of medications for veterinarian's medicine, it's not covered by insurance, like humans, for example. So you do have to pay out of pocket. So we understand. We do understand.
PHIL 30:48
I have a 14 year old dog. I'm well aware,
DR. CHAN 30:50
It can get a little pricey to some extent. But for us, we are cognizant of the cost of the medication. And it is our goal to make sure that our owners and our patients are getting the most cost effective therapy possible. That's also part of our consultation with our veterinarians to see how we can make sure that we can have a cost effective approach to get the therapeutic outcome that we need. So we are an advocate to all the owners to make sure that your pet will be well, with the most cost effective way that makes sense.
PHIL 31:33
Yes. And when you have the options for how it's delivered as far as whether it's a liquid, whether it's a food flavor additive, or the strength of the dosage, that flexibility, obviously, is going to lead to pricing flexibility.
DR. CHAN 31:52
Yeah, absolutely. So...
PHIL 31:53
Which you don't get with any other options. It's either exactly you buy this bottle of pills, or you don't.
DR. CHAN 32:00
Exactly. So we definitely have the flexibility. We can try different things, different ways that are more effective. We can combine certain medication into one which sometimes can be even more cost effective. Can sometimes cost less than if you were giving 32 pills to Peaches, and five. So sometimes if you get five might not cost as much as 32 in that respect. So yeah, it's definitely flexible from that standpoint.
PHIL 32:25
Does Golden Gate work outside of San Francisco? Or are you just local? I ask that because I could I could I just googled, I don't see a lot of options for me locally. While I was googling, I don't typically multitask. I usually give my undivided attention. But I wanted to be prepared with this question while I have you on the line.
DR. CHAN 32:50
So one of the things you want to do is when you've tried to find the right veterinary compounding pharmacy is there's not too many of us around, there are some. One of the things you want to find out is whether if they ship to your state, because it has to be licensed in your state to meet the state regulation of state laws to ship - to be able to send your medication. So for us, we generally operate most of the West Coast, we do have closest to you we have Colorado, and Wisconsin and also New Mexico, as well. Wyoming, Montana. That's the closest we get to Kansas.
PHIL 33:28
Well, we have listeners around the world. So our listeners who are from the Rockies west have access to Golden Gate, and the link to them will be in the description for this episode. But for others, just need to do a little research.
DR. CHAN 33:44
Yeah, we also ship to New York, Massachusetts, and Florida. And we are in the process of...
PHIL 33:49
Now you're just making me feel bad. You're just dancing all around Missouri.
DR. CHAN 33:57
But we're getting there. We are slowly approaching to your area.
PHIL 34:01
I appreciate those efforts on our behalf or the behalf of our pets. I know this has been eye opening for me. And I am pretty sure it's been eye opening for our listeners, not just as it pertains to their pets, but also for themselves. I think people might explore their compounding options for their own medication, as well as their pets. And that alone will, I think, get the word out there that there's this option. You don't just have to settle for the cookie cutter options that have been historically offered to patients, whether human or animal.
DR. CHAN 34:41
Yes, that is correct. It's definitely a much more customized approach that at the end of the day, just kind of get your pet well faster and more cost effective.
PHIL 34:53
If anyone has more questions, as Dr. Alan Chan indicated, you can google compounding to find the closest pharmacy near you. You can also contact Golden Gate Veterinary Compounding Pharmacy, just go to their website, which again is going to be linked in the description for this episode and they have a mailing list so you can learn more about compounding. And I'm sure if you're on that mailing list will be a notification every time there's a state added to your coverage. So if someone doesn't have a pharmacy near them, hopefully, Golden Gate will be coming perhaps to Missouri someday soon.
DR. CHAN 35:35
Very soon. We're working on it.
PHIL 35:37
Next staff meeting, say this is our top priority. I don't know how much weight your word has. But whatever pull you have put in a good word for the state of Missouri. Thank you so much for joining me today and any exciting updates that you have in the future circle back, let us know and we'll have you back on again.
DR. CHAN 35:55
Great, thank you so much, Phil, for having me on. Been a pleasure.
PHIL 36:06
I'm Phil Hatterman and you've been listening to Dog Words presented by Rosie Fund.
Thank you to Dr. Alan Chan from Golden Gate Veterinary Compounding Pharmacy for joining us today. This episode description has a link for their website, as well as a link to the Pharmacy Compounding Accreditation Board's online compounding pharmacy finder. Remember just because a pharmacy is accredited does not mean it specializes in veterinary pharmaceuticals. So use what you've learned from this episode to have a conversation with them to confirm that they can meet your needs.
Next time on dog words. Kansas City Missouri's chief of Animal Services April Moore discusses the city's transition from focusing on animal control to animal welfare.
A big thank you to alternative string duo The Wires featuring cellist Sascha Groshang and violinist Laurel Morgan Parks for playing the wonderful music you've heard on today's and previous episodes of dog words. Supporting The Wires supports our mission. Learn more about The Wires at TheWires.info and download their music on iTunes. Check out FiddleLife.com and learn to play the fiddle and cello fiddle online from Laurel and Sascha even if you've never played before.
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