0232: Pinups for Pitbulls with Deirdre Darling

Pinups for Pitbulls founder Deirdre Darling tells how a tragic circumstance propelled her into her role as an animal advocate.

Pinups for Pitbulls online:
PinupsforPitbulls.org
Facebook
Twitter
Instagram
YouTube

Learn more about the 2023 calendar model call at PinupsforPitbulls.org/model.

Deirdre’s master’s thesis Public Policy: Community Safety Through Breed Bans? analyzes the effects of breed specific legislation (BSL) and the statistics relative to dog bites, dog shelters, and rescue groups. Spoiler alert: BSL does not work!

From the Dog Words archives:
0121: Breed Specific Legislation with Katie and Anthony Barnett
0127: Socio Economic Underpinnings of Breed Specific Legislation

Celebrate 5 years of Rosie Fund by supporting our campaign to sponsor 50 dogs. You can donate at RosieFund.org or through our Facebook page. You can contribute by making a purchase from the store on our website or buying a t-shirt at Bonfire.com. Also check out our page on BarkYours, the online mall with gifts for people who love their dogs.

Music for this episode is provided by alternative string duo, The Wires. Visit them at TheWires.info. Learn fiddle and cello-fiddle online — even if you've never played before — from Laurel Morgan Parks and Sascha Groshang at FiddleLife.com. Join The Wires as they explore new music on their show Sound Currents.

The transcript for this episode is available on the Dog Words Buzzsprout page: Buzzsprout.com/840565.

Make a donation at RosieFund.org or through our Facebook page. You can contribute by making a purchase from the store on our website or buying a t-shirt at Bonfire.com. Also check out our page on BarkYours, the online mall with gifts for people who love their dogs.

Rosie Fund online:
RosieFund.org
Facebook.com/rosiefund
Instagram.com/rosiefund
YouTube.com/rosiefund

Transcript

DEIRDRE  0:02 
People are like, "What is this all about?" So they're attracted to like, why is there a pinup girl? And then what does it have to do with dogs?

PHIL   0:09 
I'm Phil Hatterman and this is Dog Words presented by Rosie Fund.

Today Deirdre Darling, founder of Pinups for Pitbulls, shares a fun way to help dogs. You'll love her story and the work she's doing. You can help her and her team by picking out some cool stuff at the store linked in the description.

If you're new to Dog Words, in each episode we explore the world of dog care and companionship. "We save each other," is the motto of Rosie Fund, which simply means the more we do for dogs, the more they do for us. And they already do a lot.

If you love dogs, you'll love Dog Words. We welcome your comments, questions, and suggestions. Go to the podcast page at RosieFund.org to share your thoughts. Please download, follow, rate, and most importantly, share Dog Words.

Celebrate five years of Rosie Fund by supporting our campaign to sponsor 50 dogs. You can donate on our website or Facebook page. You can also contribute by making a purchase from the store on our website, buying a t-shirt at Bonfire.com, or buying our note cards and shirts on BarkYours.com. Links are in the description. Your donations and purchases help fund the Rosie Life Starter Kits that make sure these senior and harder-to-adopt dogs have some of the items they'll need in their forever home.

Please follow Rosie Fund on social media. Subscribe to the free Rosie Fund YouTube channel that offers great videos of Rosie, Peaches, and shelter dogs, including some exclusive content like the sweet KC Pet Project dog featured in our latest post.

Next time on Dog Words we talked to one of the few people we know who've known our dog Peaches longer than we have, Eric Gilbert, the KC dog guy. He shares his insight on dog training and we talk about his videos that he has of Peaches from before we even met her.

The mission of Rosie Fund is to provide humans with the resources and education they need to give senior and harder-to-adopt dogs a better life. Thank you for joining our mission.

Joining us from Asheville, North Carolina is Deirdre Darling of Pinups for Pitbulls. Welcome to Dog Words, Deirdre.

DEIRDRE  2:13 
Thank you so much for having me.

PHIL   2:15 
That's a very intriguing organization you have, Pinups for Pitbulls. Two things that people probably don't put together. It's nice alliteration.

DEIRDRE  2:24 
Thank you.

PHIL   2:26 
How did Pinups for Pitbulls get started?

DEIRDRE  2:29 
Oh, so this is quite an answer to give you. So Pinups for Pitbulls started in 2005 in my living room, largely because I had a dog named Carla Lou, who I was afraid would be affected by breed specific legislation. Even though at the time I lived in Pennsylvania where breed bans were outlawed. Denver was kind of reinstating their breed ban and really starting to round up dogs and taking family dogs away and euthanizing them. And so my fear of the Gestapo coming to my front door and saying, "Your dog looks like this. So your dog needs to be euthanized," was triggered and made me want to do more than just say somebody needs to do something about it. But I realized like I was in MySpace at the time so doing more like pinup modeling and kind of having fun with like, boudoir like different things and as a burlesque performer at the time. I was like I have all of these audiences where people are paying attention to me and it feels awkward and empty. And so I was like, "Why don't I pair that with my love for people type dogs and my love for rescue dogs and put those two things together and make like a calendar?" And I thought, I'll make like a Kinkos calendar to be fun. I'll raise the money for the rescue I volunteer for and that'll be that. And I really believed that that was all it was gonna be. And then I made the calendar. Came out in 2007. And it was a fundraiser for the rescue where I was volunteering And right after that the Michael Vick stuff started happening in the media. And all of a sudden, people were really paying attention to Pinups for Pitbulls when I was just like this well meaning little dog advocate who didn't really know my stuff, but just loved dogs. Well, all of a sudden I was being asked to do all these interviews and to talk on behalf of pitbull type dogs and talk about all of these educational aspects. And because of the attention from the calendar and the name, and the title was so exciting to them that they were like, "Ooh, this will make a good media story." So one thing led to another and we ended up putting out another calendar. And then little by little it started to become more and more professionally orchestrated. And we were getting national recognition, international recognition where people were interested in what we were doing, but also wanting to be in the calendar. So it was like, how do I then capitalize on that energy and educate people as advocates where they live who are in our calendar, so they can do that where they live, and then we can do some kind of multiply on that? So that was the short version of how it happened. But originally, Carla Lou came into my life because I tried to save a dog at a shelter I was volunteering at in Philly in the late '90s. And the shelter had a kill pitbull policy meaning if a dog look like a pitbull type dog to them, they would euthanize it automatically, regardless of behavior, regardless of temperament.

PHIL   5:15 
And this has come up a couple times in your story where you've talked about breed specific bans, which in and of themselves, I find immoral. So even if you're saying it's just this breed. It's just Rottweilers or it's just Border Collies, you name the breed. That's bad enough. What makes it even more insidious, is if it has the breed characteristics, if it looks like — so you talked about the Gestapo coming to your door, a neighbor can say, "That dog scares me. I think it's a pit bull."

DEIRDRE  5:50 
Yep.

PHIL   5:51 
And the, yeah, the animal control in that municipality, they're not even gonna do an evaluation. Their evaluation is based on someone gave us a phone call. Someone made a call. We're here. We're taking the dog so we don't have to come out again.

DEIRDRE  6:07 
Exactly. And as somebody who grew up Jewish by blood, learning about Anne Frank and learning about Germany and how that happened when Jews would be found in people's attics, were saying, "You look like this thing. You make us uncomfortable. You have to go." Right. So that's really like...

PHIL   6:22 
And it's so easy — and I know you didn't use the Gestapo reference lightly — but it is so analogous, because someone might say, "I don't have a pitbull. And I don't, I don't want a pitbull. They scare me. So I don't care what happens to them." And it's that often told story about I said nothing when they came for the Jews. I said nothing when they came for the homosexuals. I said nothing when they came — And then when they came for me, there was no one...

DEIRDRE  6:50 
...to defend me. I have goosebumps right now. Because that's like one of those things that's always in my head that exact like who's left to defend them. And they're innocent. They've done nothing wrong, except be born looking a certain way that makes us uncomfortable because of things we believe that aren't true. People are like, but they're this because I've understood them to be this. And it's like, actually, no, that's not true at all. And here's why, they're just dogs. They need the same things that other dogs need, which is food, shelter, water, consistency, kindness, love, basics, right? And so we're adding all of these things to them as if they're different. And they're not. Because people say like, "I love dogs, but I don't love pit bulls." And I'm like, "Pitbulls are dogs."

PHIL   7:30 
Our sweet, wonderful Peaches. I can't tell you how many times people have said, "Oh, that's a beautiful dog. Can I pet her?"

"Yes, you can pet her."

And she "Oh, she's so sweet. Oh, what kind of breed is she?"

"Well, she's a pit mix." And then you see them stiffen and back up.

DEIRDRE  7:45 
Yeah, like all of a sudden the dog's gonna hear it. Oh, I am a pit mix. That's right. Let me do something.

PHIL   7:50 
Why am I not attacking you? I'm glad you said something.

DEIRDRE  7:52 
Right? It's so asinine. And it is absolutely over and over again that happens. And you're just like, what do you think? Like, that's the key word that the dog needs to hear in order to...

PHIL   8:01 
That's their trigger word.

DEIRDRE  8:04 
You're gonna make out with you.

PHIL   8:06 
It's go time!

DEIRDRE  8:07 
Yeah, you're gonna get a tail whack and a kiss. That's what you're dealing with. But back to Carla. So the place where I was volunteering. This kind of ties in later into our story, too. But initially, I was volunteering there. This dog came in. This woman said, "I found this dog on the street. I don't know what to do. I just wanted to make sure she was safe." And it was like a fun pitbull. And she had little like, her teats were very long, like as if she had just had puppies. And the lady at the front desk said, "Hey, if you leave this dog here, we're gonna euthanize it." And we had other shelters in Philadelphia at the time. We had two options that are major shelters there that wouldn't have to euthanize the dog right away. And the lady said, "I don't have time to go anywhere else. And she left the dog there. So I went to the front desk, and I was literally like 19 years old and was just like, "I'll take the dog. Like the dog isn't even on record yet. Like can I just have her." And they were like, "No, it's our policy." Like, once this dog is here, she's gonna get euthanized. And this was like...

PHIL   8:24 
I love rules we impose on ourselves. There's, there's nothing that can be done. This is our policy. So yeah, so Moses came down from the mountain and this was number 11?

DEIRDRE  9:15 
Yeah, exactly. And it's like, Who are you? You know, it doesn't make any sense. So I was obviously very upset. Got on my bicycle. Rode home to my apartment. And this was like pre-internet being anything of sophistication. There was no Google. Like, I had to like find a rescue to call and say like, "How do I help this dog?" So I found one place. It was in Texas. And I emailed them like urgent message and was just like, "Please, I want to help this dog. She's going to be euthanized, etc." And amazingly, they actually wrote me back right away, contacted the shelter, offered the shelter to let them take the liability off of themselves, and let this rescue take ownership instead. And I would take the dog. Not knowing me. Not knowing the dog. Nothing. Like made all of these extra steps just to help this dog and to help me help this dog. And the shelter still said, "Sorry, that's our policy." And that was it. So the dog was euthanized. And it broke my heart and made me insane. And I was like, "This is not okay. Like, this is crazy." Because I'd always wanted a husky. I thought that I wanted like a wolf hybrid. I didn't know anything about dogs back then and was just like, I just want a dog that looks a certain way and didn't know any different. But I fell in love with this dog that was euthanized. So Chako is the name of the rescue group, they ended up saying like, "Hey, I know you really wanted to help this dog and we tried. But we have this dog that was left for dead in a basement. And she's like a year old or so. And if you're interested, you can apply for her." So I ended up having to pull a police report on myself. This is how insane it was to rescue a dog that was the pitbull type dog in 1997. So I had to pull a police report on myself in my hometown of Yardley, Pennsylvania, which is like a podunk little town. And they're like, "Why do you need a police report?" And I was like, "I'm adopting a pitbull." And they were just like, "Wha...!" You know, and it was like, so ridiculous sounding. I had to prove that I'd never fought a dog. And then I went through a month long process. Had to pay $375 to fly her and $75 to adopt her and I literally made like, maybe $1200 a month back then. So I was just like, I don't know, I'm just doing it. Like I didn't I really did not think at all and stop. I was just like, I'm just gonna figure this out as I go. And she was shipped to me in Newark, New Jersey. I got her in a crate. They brought her out on, like an actual forklift to me on a pallet. Which was just bananas to me, like...

PHIL   11:41 
I'm picturing Silence of the Lambs when they wheel Hannibal Lecter out.

DEIRDRE  11:46 
Exactly! Wow, this is like quite a process for like, giving me this dog on an airplane crate. Like it wasn't like a big crazy crate. So I was like nervous. Like as I guess I'm opening the kennel like this dog sat outside probably for an hour at the airport and all those hours flying and not knowing what's going on. And I opened the door. And of course, she jumped out and made out with me immediately. And the rest was history. So she was like the true inspiration for Pinups for Pitbulls. But it was like quite a story to get to that moment.

PHIL   12:15 
There's been a lot of talk lately about safety theater. Like what is necessary. What is actually efficacious. The pulling a police report on yourself so you can adopt a pitbull is a kind of safety theater. Because if I'm a drug lord, or I'm running a dog fighting ring, and I want to pitbull, or any kind of dog, I'm not going to pull a police report on myself. I'm going to buy this dog under the table. The actual criminals aren't gonna go "Oh, no! We've been foiled. How, how can we — what would be a workaround? How could we possibly get a dog for our dog fighting ring?"

DEIRDRE  12:52 
Right!

PHIL   12:53 
"We'll have to close this down and move on to working with a local charity or something."

DEIRDRE  12:58 
Yeah, exactly. Well, that's the same thing with breed bands. It's like you're looking at outline the type of dog to keep a certain kind of person out of your area. But really, that same person isn't gonna follow the law that you're creating. You're only affecting people who would follow the law. Like, it's like what? Like that is so illogical on so many levels. Again, that you're trying to keep a community safe. But that's like a band aid that's not actually dealing with anything. And it was founded in racist roots, too, with why breed bands even began in the first place, which is a whole other story.

PHIL   13:33 
Yeah, we had a discussion on that. I'll link to that episode in the description for this. Carla Lou inspired you to fight the system.

DEIRDRE  13:42 
Right.

PHIL   13:42 
Fight the power. To do something. And what I love about your story is you saw a need and you didn't follow the playbook. I'm going to start my 501(c)(3). And I'm gonna have the Carla Lou Rescue Group. Which those are great, those are necessary. But that wasn't your style.

DEIRDRE  14:04 
Right.

PHIL   14:04 
Like, what do I do? What do I know? I already have this audience. I already have this skill set. How can I apply something I'm already good at and that I enjoy that's going to be of benefit to society.

DEIRDRE  14:18 
Exactly. And I was also while I was volunteering in rescue, I was one of those people who I think was so energetic and so excited and who really wanted to do all the things and they were always just like, "Calm down. Calm down. Do what we're telling you and like just going to stop trying to do more than what we're asking."

PHIL   14:34 
Go clean a kennel.

DEIRDRE  14:35 
Exactly. And like, which is fine. I'm happy to get dirty if I have to get dirty. But for me, it was like I'm trying to like give more and do more like I have this energy and like nobody would let me use it. And so finally I had to be like, "Alright. Fine. I'll make my own thing." And like you're saying like, I knew it was advocacy for me. I knew it wasn't rescue. I knew we could help rescues by doing this educational piece and you need that in order to get people to want to adopt pitbull type dogs in the first place. So for me, it was like we were the missing piece. Not in ourselves entirely. But we were part of that equation of like, if we can fill this gap where education is needed and empower people to want to speak on behalf of these dogs to help get them adopted, isn't that what we're all trying to do by putting them into rescue and getting them into homes, you know what I mean? So taking that negativity away from people and giving them the real tools, and like, they're just dogs. They need the same kind of management.

It's, I think, a more appealing packaging of the message than — nothing against Sarah McLachlan. But...

I work with ASPCA, too, so.

PHIL   15:41 
But those PSAs just make me so sad, where she's singing and they're showing the sad, sad dogs. I guess that message needs to be out there. But I also like showing sort of the possibilities, the joy that you can have with the dog. Instead of rescuing from this, it's let's take them to...

DEIRDRE  16:03 
Yes!

PHIL   16:03 
...the promised land. We keep going to these old testament references. With Rosie Fund, when we feature a dog, we shoot video of them with me or with their foster parent or with a staff member that they like from KC Pet Project to show people, here's this dog interacting with somebody. Here it is. This is its play style. These are the things that it enjoys. And this is how it snuggles and here's this dog giving kisses. I think that's a lot more appealing than just making people sad.

DEIRDRE  16:34 
Yeah.

PHIL   16:34 
I think that's a more powerful motivation.

DEIRDRE  16:37 
I agree. And that was really the intent of this was like, get away from the sad and make people want to do something. Like to put a fire under them and get them excited about it. And we have people constantly emailing us wanting to be a part of it for that reason. They're like, "Ooh, this is like fun and energetic." And the people involved are nice. And they're not going to like be mean to me and tell me what to do. But they're gonna give me the tools that I can then go do — to me like that's what empowerment is. It's like, I don't need to be there to do it. I can tell you how to do it the same way that we do it. And then you can take that and take it where you live. And people are excited about that opportunity to actually be that voice in their community versus having to be like, "Oh, I have to be everywhere. I have to be the one to do it." Like I'm not an autocrat. I'm like, let's get everybody educated so that we can all finish this. I would love to put myself out of business.

PHIL   17:29 
That's come up a lot of times on this show that those of us who do this kind of thing. We would love to spend our time just playing with our dog.

DEIRDRE  17:36 
Yeah.

PHIL   17:36 
I would I would be fine shutting down Rosie Fund.

Yeah.

Because it's no longer needed. I'm sure KC Pet Project would love to just be the animal welfare branch of the Kansas City government and not have to be sheltering dogs.

Right.

That just be helping people keep their dogs and finding homes for the occasional stray. Which there would be less of if people weren't abandoning their pitbulls and other dogs. People come to you because they've heard about Pinups for Pitbulls and they want to be a part of it. You described kind of an overview of what that process is. Who is coming to you to do this? Who's the typical, "I want to be a Pinups for Pitbulls advocate."

DEIRDRE  18:22 
I would say there are people all over the country. Most of the time, they're people who have experienced some form of a breed ban or some form of prejudice because of having a pitbull type dog. Probably average between like, young 20s to early 40s, I would say. But we have men and women and they don't have to be women. They can be people, however they identify to be a part of our organization. But they just send in emails or a contact form and they're reached out to by our volunteer coordinator, Rachel, who gets them kind of started and we find out how much they really want to invest in their time. Like, do they want to be a street team member where they can like, get brochures and just put them out wherever they live? Or do they want to be somebody who tables and talks about the dogs? Or do they want to do things in the backend, like help us with social media or things like that? So we try to not be limiting in the way that people can volunteer since people have different needs and different styles.

Because, yeah, the obvious needs are you need someone to be a photographer and you need someone to be a model. And then there's all these other related tasks that are important. But just to back up to the model, I'm guessing you don't need to be a professional model.

You definitely don't need to be a professional model. And the calendar is actually a very, it seems like a big part of what we do, but it is actually like one of the biggest fundraisers we have but it is not really the focus of the organization. But we have a professional photographer that we use every year, Celeste Giuliano in Philadelphia. She and her husband, David Seidman, do the photography and the layout. So we do all the shoots in her studio.

PHIL   19:58 
Well when you do havea professional photographer, that does take a lot of burden off everyone else. Because if the photographer knows what they're doing...

DEIRDRE  20:06 
Right.

PHIL   20:06 
...they can make anything look good.

DEIRDRE  20:08 
Yes. And she's amazing. She does it for a living. So she's a pinup photographer for a living. So she has a hair and makeup artist. She has a whole studio. She has wardrobe. We have everything we could possibly need in her studio. And it's also nice, because it's consistent. I know what we're getting into every year. I know what we need to work with. What we need to do with the dogs. And the low pressure that we need to provide, obviously, for the dogs so that they're not stressed out in the process. Usually they're bored by the time we're actually shooting the pictures that they're like, just whenever it takes them 10 seconds, and it takes the model, sometimes 30 minutes to get the shot. So, it's like, it's fun.

PHIL   20:45 
We never do any productions on that level. But we do occasionally do something fun with Peaches where we dress her up. And you really do have to have everything ready to go. So that when the dog is on set, we can get this done. Because you only have a small window of when they are on board with what you're doing.

DEIRDRE  21:06 
Exactly.

PHIL   21:07 
And then they're not on board. It's done. When they're done, they are done done.

DEIRDRE  21:12 
Yeah. I'm somebody who comes from that positive training model of like, I'm not gonna push the dog past where their threshold is. So we have to get it early. Or we have to give them a break and try again later. Like, those are the only options. So we keep it really low stress and fun for them at least then usually, we're shooting the person first, getting that perfect. And then we'll bring the dog in and shoot the dog second so that the dog can kind of just do its thing without the model focusing on what their dog is doing. And then having like a big distraction. So I even have like an app on my phone for like squeaky toy sounds and things like that, like things that I've forgotten to bring that turned into like, "Oh, that's it's such a great way to like, I can just press this tennis ball, that sound doesn't work for you, I'll press this bone!" Like whatever it takes. But it's always fun. It's always like a super great environment to play inside of. And we have people who come from all over the country to be in it. And we have Canadians who've been in it as well. So it's really cool.

A great opportunity to get to work with professional hair and makeup. And be a part of that. That's a great experience.

Yeah. It's fun. We've had a lot of babies being born also from the calendar shoots where their like husbands or partners are like, "You look amazing!"

PHIL   22:23 
Yes. Let's do some more photoshoots!

DEIRDRE  22:27 
Exactly! I'm like, "Oh my gosh, you conceived right after your shoot. That's amazing."

PHIL   22:33 
It's kind of like the animated movies that have a eight year production schedule. And then in the credits they show the names of all the babies that were born.

DEIRDRE  22:43 
Exactly. I love it.

PHIL   22:46 
Where do you find your models? Or do the models find you?

DEIRDRE  22:49 
So the models are applicants who come through our website. So they can be any kind of person. They don't have to have any modeling background whatsoever. In fact, like we're all about the girl next door. That's really somebody we want to empower to be a voice for our beloved pitbull type dogs. And so they can go to our website and click on the model button. And that will help them find the application for the 2023 calendar model call. 2022 we had to do like a reprise of past images because of COVID. So we're looking for our 2023 models this year. So that next year, we can shoot that calendar and rock and roll.

PHIL   23:28 
I will put a link to that button in the description for this episode. Just to make it easier for those models to find you.

DEIRDRE  23:37 
Thank you.

PHIL   23:38 
People obviously can get involved at the levels you've just described. But I think probably the easiest way for someone to help Pinups for Pitbulls is to open their wallet. What can they buy?

DEIRDRE  23:52 
Oh my gosh. We have so many things on our website. And we have a donation button, as well. We have things like our calendar, hats, enamels, stickers, shirts for your dog, shirts that you can wear that match your dog. We have all kinds of really cute stuff like bandanas, dog bowls, mugs. You name it, we've got it on your website.

PHIL   24:12 
It's all very fun. The website will be linked in the description. There might be people out there who have a misconception of what is a pinup. That they might be confusing it with centerfold. That's not what this is. This is all fun stuff. And it's not even all pinup stuff. But the pinup stuff is fun. But some of it is just line drawings of a pitbull with a goofy grin. And sort of homages to classic pinups that people I think will recognize from a simpler era. It's just lots of fun stuff that promotes and supports dog rescue.

DEIRDRE  24:51 
Absolutely. And it keeps people centered on being able to talk about what we're doing. It's everybody be like, "Oh, I really like that sticker." Or "I like your shirt. What's that about?" And then it's an opportunity to educate again. So it's something that's always a conversation starter, which we love. Like even on my water bottle I have a sticker, which I know won't be on the podcast, but you can see of one of our pinups and her dog, so you can get all different ways. Like I even went to the bank this morning and they were like, "Pinups for Pitbulls? Oh, my gosh. I have a pitbull!" And the person next to them had a pitbull and we started talking dogs. And then it was like, I have two possible new volunteers in my neighborhood now. So it's cool. People are always excited to hear that you like pitbull type dogs, and that there are other people in their community who also like them, and then you can kind of build that up also and help have what my friend noted is my empathy army for Pinups for Pitbulls.

PHIL   25:41 
And again, you're doing something fun with it.

DEIRDRE  25:43 
Yes, exactly. Well, we trick people into paying attention. 'Cause when we're in our booth, for example, we have our banner of our pinup picture behind us, people are like, "What is this all about?" So they're attracted to like, "Why is there a pinup girl? And then what does it have to do with dogs?" So we are getting people who might even not like what we're doing to come over. And then we have the opportunity to learn about where they're coming from, and why they don't like a pit bull type dog, for example. And we get to have a good conversation and learn something to think differently about, as well. So it's great on both ends.

PHIL   26:13 
Even if that's not a teachable moment, right there, you've planted a seed. Even if they don't walk over just seeing your banner or seeing your table gets them thinking, "There might be more going on with pitbulls than I thought."

DEIRDRE  26:26 
It took me a while but I went back to grad school because I really wanted to be able to advocate on a level that was credible to legislators and credible to, you know, mayors or people in city council, whoever. I wanted to be able to talk about it in a way where they would listen because I have the same knowledge I had before grad school but I wrote my thesis on breed bans. And I purposely took that time to get that extra title so that when I write to these people asking them to pay attention, they actually listen. And they're more interested because they know I took my time to do the research. I realized that there were 17,000 media stories that I could access in different databases. But there were zero towns that existed that had BSL where it actually worked. And that's what I set out to do. And I wanted to know if I was a well-meaning I-just-love-dogs kind of advocate or can I actually figure this out and solve this. And when it came down to it, it was like, okay, don't chain your dogs. Don't Starve your dogs. Don't let them be loose. And manage your dogs around children and manage children around dogs. Basic. Easy. Like these are not rocket science issues that we can solve without having to say, "This dog looks this certain way we need it to go." It's like how about you put your dog on the leash, and the other person puts their dog on the leash. And then you don't have the same kind of risk immediately. You're already starting to deal with the issues. And that's, I think, where a lot of this comes from.

PHIL   27:56 
Your thesis is available online. And with your permission, may I link to that in the description, as well?

DEIRDRE  28:01 
Yes, I want it as far and wide as it can get.

PHIL   28:04 
Because it's very, yeah, it's easy for me to anecdotally say, "My pitbull's great."

DEIRDRE  28:10 
Yes.

PHIL   28:11 
But that doesn't carry the same weight as the research that you've done. And even if someone isn't citing the research when they're having a discussion, just having that foundation so that you can speak with confidence and not be thrown when someone challenges you with, "Well, pitbull legislation around the country has saved lives."

DEIRDRE  28:34 
Right.

PHIL   28:35 
Now you're saying that maybe you know what you're talking about. Maybe you have studies.

DEIRDRE  28:39 
Yeah.

PHIL   28:39 
But if you've read your thesis, then people can say, "Okay, well, that doesn't really line up with the scholarship that I've studied.

DEIRDRE  28:48 
Right.

PHIL   28:48 
And then reach an understanding instead of people just throwing out their made up studies and figures and assumptions and getting nowhere.

DEIRDRE  28:56 
Exactly. I've been saying for a while that pitbull issue is the original source of fake news media. Like, really being a problem. People drumming up nonsense, printing it, and then other people citing it. And it just going on and on forever. No, that's not science. That's media stories. That's nonsense. Like, that's 100% why I wanted to study it fully from that perspective of like science-based data. Let me prove myself wrong. If I'm wrong, then maybe I have to figure something else out to deal with this issue. And I was ready to do that. And that was obviously not the case. But I was ready.

PHIL   29:29 
People will cite that there's multiple articles, but as you indicated there, they're all citing each other.

DEIRDRE  29:36 
Exactly.

PHIL   29:36 
And you can trace it back to one misquoted article.

DEIRDRE  29:41 
Yeah. That's how the whole psi thing came about where somebody had said somewhere in the media story that pitbulls have a certain bite pressure that's so much more intense than any other kind of dog and it was like somebody said that in an article. And then somebody cited that article. And that has just been going on for like 30 years now. Just making it as if it was legit.

PHIL   30:01 
Well, everybody knows. Yeah. We've all heard about it. So it must be true.

DEIRDRE  30:06 
Exactly. It's crazy. It's sad. But that is, I mean, that's I'm like we are the victims of fake news first and foremost, like, it's just enough is enough.

PHIL   30:15 
So check out Deirdre's thesis. Again, that will be linked in the description. And, of course, PinupsforPitbulls.org will be in the description. A donation would be great, but what's even more fun is make a purchase. Because I think that goes further than just a donation. Because, just as Deirdre described, you go to the bank with your t-shirt, or you go to work and drink from your Pinups for Pitbulls mug, and it's gonna start a conversation. And that ultimately, I think, is even more beneficial than just making a donation.

100% I agree.

Well, thank you so much for joining us today, Deirdre, and for pursuing your passion in helping dogs and doing something fun to help dogs and something that a lot of other people can get on board with that has grown over the last 14-15 years. And, obviously it's going to continue to grow with help from interviews like this. So thank you again and get out there and help more dogs.

DEIRDRE  31:22 
Thank you!

PHIL   31:29 
I'm Phil Hatterman and you've been listening to Dog Words presented by Rosie Fund.

Thank you to Deirdre Darling from Pinups for Pitbulls. Their website, the model application, and Deirdre's master's thesis are all linked in the description. There are also links to the Dog Words episodes we referenced in today's interview. If you find an old episode you'd like, be sure to share it with your friends.

Next time on Dog Words, Eric Gilbert, the KC dog guy shares his insight on dog training and shares his videos of our dog, Peaches from before we even met her.

A big thank you to alternative string duo The Wires featuring cellist Sascha Groshang and violinist Laurel Morgan Parks for playing the wonderful music you've heard on today's and previous episodes of Dog Words. Supporting The Wires supports our mission. Now you can join Laurel and Sascha as they explore new music and delve into the inspiration behind each work as hosts of Sound Currents on 91.9 Classical KC. Click on the Sound Currents link in the description for more information. Learn more about The Wires at TheWires.info and download their music on iTunes. Check out FiddleLife.com and learn to play fiddle and cello-fiddle online from Laurel and Sasha, even if you've never played before.

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Thank you for listening and remember, we save each other.

DISCLAIMER: This document is a transcription obtained through a third party. There is no claim to accuracy on the content provided in this document and divergence from the audio file is to be expected. Some content may be omitted, particularly when there is crosstalk.

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