The 'Comic Sans' of Illustration? - Corporate Memphis (That Corporate Art Style)

In this episode we discuss the phenomenon known to some as 'Corporate Memphis' a style of illustration that has crept into corporate UX and UI designs from Facebook to Pornhub. We discover where it came from and theorise where it might be going.

 As well as the usual conversational detours and of course, the madness that is, UX Tombola.

How do you feel about this style? Do you agree you shouldn't say you 'hate' it? Let us know on Twitter @FasterHorsesUX

Music by James Medd

Patreon Producers for this episode:

Rob Singleton

Transcript

SPEAKER_03 0:06

Hello and welcome to Faster Horses. I'm Mark Sutcliffe at Marks underscore out of ten on Twitter if you want to find me there, and these are my co-hosts Nick Tomlinson at NT Illustrators on Twitter. Hello Nick.

SPEAKER_00 0:18

Hello.

SPEAKER_03 0:19

And Paul Wilshore at Paul Wilshaw on Twitter. Hello, Paul.

SPEAKER_00 0:23

Hello Mark.

SPEAKER_03 0:24

This is series three of Faster Horses. If you haven't heard of series one or two, check out those on whichever platform you prefer. You can now also get extended versions of these same episodes early by signing up to our Faster Horses Patreon, as well as one extra Patreon exclusive episode a month, along with other benefits detailed on the site. Don't forget to like and subscribe, it really does help the show, and also follow our official Twitter page at FasterHorses UX for regular updates, interesting and useful articles and random musings from the team. Now, without further ado, let's get on with the show. Are you about to say that you didn't record?

SPEAKER_00 1:05

Yeah, yeah. I thought it was recording, but it wasn't.

SPEAKER_03 1:15

Oh my fucking over for this shit.

SPEAKER_00 1:19

Oh, someone's up the front door.

SPEAKER_03 1:22

Picks-up phone. That's the most cognitively dissonant thing I think I've ever seen.

SPEAKER_00 1:28

Someone tried to sell me something. Not answering that. Is it rags?

SPEAKER_04 1:33

Is it microfiber cloths?

SPEAKER_03 1:35

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:35

Is it no, it's not.

SPEAKER_03 1:37

Mark Steelers moved in next door. Can I just also add that we didn't record, we forgot to hit recording, and now Nick decides he's gonna put his his pop shield on.

SPEAKER_04 1:49

I took the opportunity to put it on because when I was talking in the last version, which no one will ever hear, all you can hear was fucking.

SPEAKER_00 1:58

So I I blame James Med. That's the easiest thing. For not recording, yeah, definitely.

SPEAKER_04 2:05

Yeah, yep. And he's not here to defend himself, is he?

SPEAKER_00 2:08

So well no.

SPEAKER_03 2:10

That's exactly it. That's how we roll. Um love you! Um well, yeah, we mentioned how you did our theme shoe music, so go and check him out, people.

SPEAKER_04 2:22

Yeah, James Med. Um, composer, UX designer. There's not not very much that man can't do. He's quite handsome as well, which is good.

SPEAKER_03 2:32

It's the main reason I befriended him. What what a wee mark, Chop Liver.

SPEAKER_00 2:39

Super shallow.

SPEAKER_04 2:40

Don't be so don't be so jealous, Nick. I also think you're attractive. I have been called uh Chop Liver before, so nice. Yeah, nice.

SPEAKER_00 2:48

Was that Drew?

SPEAKER_04 2:49

Uh yeah. But you know, beggars can't be choosers, can they? Indeed. Indeed. Not me, not her. Yeah, I'm gonna say this is gonna be interesting when she listens back to it. Um right, okay. So we've gathered you here today then to talk about corporate Memphis. Cool. Right. Does someone want to explain what that is? Uh you do, Nick.

SPEAKER_03 3:14

I want to hear your description of corporate Memphis again.

SPEAKER_04 3:18

Yeah, alright, so um what Mark's alluding to there is not the fact that I've previously explained what uh corporate Memphis is on a previous podcast, which I have done, and you can go back and listen to that episode at your leisure, either on Spotify or any other streaming service, or even subscribe to our Patreon.

SPEAKER_03 3:36

Get the extended cut.

SPEAKER_04 3:38

Yeah, Patriot uh Patreon forward slash Fasterhorses UX. So what it is is it's a term often used disparagingly for an art style that has found its way into the public conscious through various corporations. You will have seen it if you've been on the internet since 2019, you will have seen it, and essentially it consists of sort of flat, nicely coloured, geometric illustrations, usually comprised of people with trendy haircuts and um clothes on, um, with long not always, but not trendy clothes on. Oh, right, I tell you, I just heard clothes on there. Clothes on bit of a fraud and slip on my part. A sidebar, it's it's so prolific across the internet that that style has actually found its way onto your uh porn hub, so yeah. That's incredible.

SPEAKER_00 4:34

Is that like the onboarding experience?

SPEAKER_03 4:37

I'm using my work laptop to record this, so I'm not gonna type in corporate Memphis Pornhub. But I recommend our users do so now, regardless of the laptop they're from.

SPEAKER_00 4:51

Especially if you're presenting on a boardroom screen. Yeah, exactly. Do it now.

SPEAKER_03 4:57

I once uh I once worked with a guy. Oh well, he was actually a substitute cheater I was at school. Um and this this story isn't as and as interesting as it is as it as it should be, so I regret even starting it. But he just happened to play he just happened to play solitaire and it came up on a lot of screens around this church we were performing in prawn. Um yeah, well this is it. I was thinking he's exactly the kind of character who would search for Pornhub Corporate Memphis whilst in a church because you know it's a small loop to make solitaire one day, corporate Memphis, Pornhub the next.

SPEAKER_04 5:40

I've just realized that does that mean that you missed me singing walking in Memphis? Yeah, yeah, yeah. We need that again.

SPEAKER_00 5:47

Son bitch.

SPEAKER_04 5:48

No, that no absolutely not. May maybe for UX Tombola. Oh, when it comes to the theme tune.

SPEAKER_00 5:56

Walking in Memphis Tombola esque. Yeah, mash up.

SPEAKER_04 6:00

Yeah, yeah, cool. Share meets UX Tombola. Right, so corporate Memphis. Yeah, so corporate Memphis. So it's it's a style you will have seen, it's like noodle and misproportioned people, um, nice uh colours. The colours tend to change depending on you know uh uh when they're getting made, but the users are sort of pastely and flat, nice colours, um, unless you know the corporate colours that have been kind of thrust upon the illustration, yeah, yeah. But um usually in usually enjoying themselves, like oppressively happy as is a term that has been thrown around to describe them. Usually involving yeah, on a beat, lots of bean bags, lots of teeth. Floating in the air, using tech, man buns, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 6:43

Um man bums, man buns. Oh, that hairstyle. The hairstyle, my god. I need to have a word with myself. And so you were speaking about the porn hub version then.

SPEAKER_04 6:53

Yeah, yeah. Maybe, maybe so.

SPEAKER_00 6:59

Innocent guts. Well, straight down.

SPEAKER_03 7:03

Evidently, I've got a preoccupation about man buns that is quite different to yours.

SPEAKER_04 7:08

You and the audience have signed up for just that exact kind of misunderstanding, Paul. So it's not a surprise. Yeah, yeah. Um, so yeah, so that's that that's what it is in a nutshell, and I think the more we talk about this, the more we'll kind of discover like why why that is, and I've got some like ruminations around why that is as well. Um yeah, that that's it. That's that's what it is. Um it it you've probably not heard that expression so much, it's not it's not one that that is the most common, really. It's got various names, some are a little bit um controversial.

SPEAKER_03 7:45

Yeah, it's kind of just known as that corporate style, isn't it?

SPEAKER_04 7:49

Yeah, I think that's what it's become known as. But yeah, so a lot a lot of people, as as I mentioned in the first draft of this uh conversation, it it's become a bit of a like a whipping boy for people who and it's become like almost the comic sands of illustration, and by that I mean that people who aren't necessarily familiar or like are fair with illustration and design are posting about it and and saying sort of derogative things, you know, like there's a lot of people online saying I hate this illustration style on Twitter and things like that. And I think it's a little bit unfair to say that because there's a there's a number of reasons. Number one is when it first came out, a lot of people liked it. Um it came out officially, it was tracked back to a um design studio called Book that created um a design system or some a design a brand package for for Facebook called um not Allegro.

SPEAKER_03 8:49

Umlegra, apparently. Allegra, I typed in Book Allegra uh to Google this just to valid validate it. And um I've now got a restaurant reservation.

SPEAKER_04 8:59

Is it is it not Allegria? Anyway, it's it's Spanish for joy basically, so it will be a little bit more um lyrical than me saying Allegra, but it'll be like Allegria or something like that. It'll be a roll of the art. But anyway, so that's that's where it originally came from in 2019. But it's a style that was very much being used by kind of folksy at-home side-of-the-desk sort of illustrators, um, and it's a style I saw emerging right back when I was working in like an art shop, which was you know, probably about 10 years ago at least now. Um that kind of you know, ladies with like your short cropped bobs sat on beanbags, flowers in the background, long noodly limbs in lovely, like earthy and pastel tones and stuff. And I just think it's a bit unfair that these people have been like cultivating that illustration style for ten years, and it just so happens that a design company have produced a nice set of illustrations for you know an evil corporation like Facebook, and it it was so good and it was it worked so well that every other corporation in the world have then looked at that illustration style and gone, oh let's do that, let's do that, yeah. And then that's pro pro proliferated then through every corporation, and people invariably notice patterns. And when I think when they when they actually look at it and say, I hate this illustration style, what they're actually saying is that they hate what it stands for now. Yeah, and I yeah, so I I like to make that that definition between hating the style, which is very good and has its merits, and like it it's unfair to dismiss the work of real people who still probably even illustrate like that now. They've spent a large proportion of their career cultivating this style that people are just writing off now. We've probably never tried to illustrate anything in the life.

SPEAKER_03 10:54

Well, if you go back to the source, I reckon um that will have far more character than a lot of what we see because um you know it's indicative of of the what was available. I mean, the resources. I mean, this was a design agency dedicated um towards exploring this style as part of uh I imagine a Facebook rebrand initiative or something like that. And I imagine thus there was a fuck ton of money behind it, and that meant that there was time to research, there was time to investigate, to conceptualise. And I reckon if you've got systems now, you've got corporations who see this style and go, that's what we want, they're probably going to the one-in-house designer and saying, You recreate that, now you've got 20 minutes, see you then.

SPEAKER_04 11:45

So so you've now you've just hit on a point that I wanted to make eventually, which is you've you've nailed it there and you've said it explicitly without I don't think even um realising that you've said it. It's illustration that's been created by designers. Ah, yeah, alright, I understand. As opposed to illustrators, yeah. So it it's it's by dis it's by design, huh? Um it's being created by people who aren't illustrators and don't necessarily have that understanding. Like having a good designer who's a good illustrator is actually quite a rare combination of like skills, especially if they're like equally good at both things. Uh nick Tomlinson.com. Um but yeah, so so what they're trying to do is they're trying to replicate, replicate as well, being like the active word, a style that they've seen that clients are asking for and expecting while not being illustrators, and they're also trying to componentize and um make it as quick as possible to recreate, to change, to um scale, and and to actually um and to even like animate with as well.

SPEAKER_03 13:00

Yeah, they're taking they're taking a design approach to to what is illustration ultimately. And uh and the end sorry, go on, Paul.

SPEAKER_00 13:09

No, I was gonna say it's it's really interesting because um like ten years ago illustration jobs were everywhere, weren't they? And you kind of needed to be uh a bespoke dedicated illustrator, but now you never see illustration jobs advertised.

SPEAKER_04 13:28

You don't see graphic design jobs advertised idly anymore either. It's all just UX designer. Yep.

SPEAKER_03 13:34

Yeah, yeah. And it's that it's part of that unicorn mentality, isn't it? Of getting someone who can do everything, uh which is different from the reality. Yeah, yeah. Well, that's why they're called unicorns, in fact, exactly. Thank you, Nick. Not just because we've all got protrusions out of our forehead, yeah, because they're very difficult to find or catch.

SPEAKER_04 13:56

So so yeah, I think the just to explain that point, maybe maybe over explain it, the term unicorn, it's not the fact that a unicorn is a mythical creature, it's the fact that in the stories of unicorns they're incredibly difficult to catch.

SPEAKER_00 14:10

Yeah, right.

SPEAKER_04 14:11

Even if they were in every in every instance where they are caught, they're they're they're not immediately killed. Usually, yeah. Have you ever seen The Last Unicorn, the animation called The Last Unicorn? No, no, no, no. It's it's from the eighties, it's a kid's cartoon, and it's fucking very old. It's from the eighties.

SPEAKER_00 14:29

I'm from the eighties. You're from the eighties, you're old.

SPEAKER_04 14:35

Oh dear me. I am I am officially from the eighties, but yeah, it's it's fantastic. So I check that out. The last unicorn, it's an an it's uh animation and it's absolutely terrifying, but it's four kids. It's got boobs in it. Has it? What you don't see that in corporate Memphis, do you? Well, unless you're on Pornhub, but unless you're on Pornhubs, all types of boobs on Pornhub, in there.

SPEAKER_03 14:57

Yeah. Um that's a sponsorship deal that we we probably shouldn't be going for.

SPEAKER_04 15:03

I don't know if we say that name out loud, do we get like stricken off Spotify in other streaming servers?

SPEAKER_01 15:09

Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 15:09

Maybe. I don't think so. I don't think that's the most effective filter compared to the other stuff we say. We talk about watermelon fucking for Christ's sake. I was trying to lay off that today, but um, just because we talk about it doesn't mean we now have to talk about it.

SPEAKER_00 15:28

Let's not let's carry on talking about I've got some ideas why corporate Memphis is more prevalent nowadays as well. So if you think if you think about the last few years, uh say like 2019 uh onwards, um, you know, think about kind of like the programs everybody's using now. So everybody's using like Figma or Sketch, nobody's using like Photoshop anymore, kind of those kind of tools that were predominantly illustratory designy tools using these tools that are built for flat 2D animation stuff, or you know, kind of that that uh corporate Memphis style. So it's really hard to get uh textures or um you know kind of brushy kind of strokes into those programs unless you kind of like do uh weird and wacky things in you know with photos and stuff like that.

SPEAKER_04 16:30

It it's interesting you mentioned that because I went back and I looked at the Allegria like design document, and when you look at that, it's got the nice um oh god, what's the actual term for it? Um you know, like the dissolve filter in in Illustrator, like the speckled like texture that you see on things now. Yeah, yeah. I was gonna say dithering, but um that's a pixel art specific term. Yeah, yeah, that's what kind of what it used to be called, but it's a little bit like the the style that I used on the artwork I did for uh my friend's podcast, uh Throwing Shade.

SPEAKER_00 17:03

Nice.

SPEAKER_04 17:04

Check that, check that out on Spotify. It was a shameless pug, wasn't it?

SPEAKER_00 17:08

It's like shameless pug. It was a shameless pug.

SPEAKER_03 17:14

I always I I tend to I tend always to say that. I swear never mind.

SPEAKER_04 17:18

Shameless pug. Um yeah, so it it's uh but what what I've noticed is like that's immediately dropped out of a lot of this stuff. Um and that was like a real like done really, really well on on the original stuff. It looks really nice. If you go check it out, it's it's really nice and it's a good like design document as well. It's an actual, it's not surprising that it became what it became because it was it was good. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 17:41

I think um as you said, it's it's not that the shade is being thrown at the I didn't mean to use that idiom then.

SPEAKER_00 17:50

No, you didn't mean to do another podcast.

SPEAKER_03 17:54

It isn't so much that people hate it because um because of the style itself. Um I I do think it's because it's come to represent that process of of manufacturing um something that should be bespoke. And it is it's the difference between getting something that's handmade um and artisanal and stuff like that, and then something that you try and treat like just another component or just another bit of um bit of design work which you know has to follow certain guidelines and certain rules. Illustration is an opportunity to be more creative, isn't it? And to be more delightful. And you know, you can inform it, for example, you can use accessibility to inform your decisions, but by and large you're creating a flat screen that isn't going to be interacted with, and as such, you effectively have a blank canvas. It's that art that you get uh I've got another theory as well.

SPEAKER_00 18:56

Sorry, Nick, why I've got another theory why it's prevalent as well. That since if you you know, even you know, uh three years ago, you know, uh 2018, 2019, into that, a lot more of our uh touch points with these services and uh corporations are metaphorical and and they don't really exist in the real world. It's not like physical products or and it's not like you know you can pick up like a chocolate bar, you know, you're talking about cloud stuff, you're talking about AI, you're talking about you know, servers, you're talking about uh you know computing power and chips and the insides of even gadgets and things like that, but because they get uh you know, kind of like that's the marketing pitch, isn't it? How fast the processor is, how thing is that is, and how can you uh disp display that without giving away

SPEAKER_04 20:00

the entire secrets of your tech and how you've done it and show kind of like the insides or like photos of chips and who wants to see photos of like uh and I'm not talking like chips from kind of like um McDonald's or from the chip shop yeah yeah um you know we're talking you know kind of like um processors and things like that CPUs and what yeah it's it's it's weird it's making it tangible isn't it and applying like physical design to to abstract concepts yeah and you've got to kind of like um give that kind of like a almost a personality and almost something tangible for people to be able to kind of almost understand and picture like uh the classic one going back years and years was uh shampoo commercials so shampoo commercials they did a lot of user research and they found out that shampoo commercials uh had were more impactful when they included science so when they talk about the hair follicles the the the nanoparticles making your hair thicker now with extra schmemulon yeah yeah exactly and they were made up words for these products uh you know kind of like you know it's it's a term for something else or an ingredient in their product but because it sounds yeah sounds more sciencey and more expensive yeah yeah yeah people were more kind of like you know uh they go and buy it and stuff like that so yeah yak ult's got into a lot of trouble for this we could do a yeah yeah we could do a UX files on Yakolt uh getting uh getting in lots of bother because they just made up bacteria that was supposed to be in but I think I think you make a really interesting point about um about trying to capture something abstract but I think it goes one step further and I think what we find these illustrations are now trying to do is they're trying to encapsulate an entire experience rather than just a product they're trying to to convey the idea of the the user experience they're trying to capture a mood they're trying to capture a a memory or or a sense you know it's like trying to draw how something smells um and and how something tastes and all of that at once um and so we end up with this quite whimsical style that's that's that's done to convey that they're trying to um visualize the experience of using their whatever like visualize the experience of using Facebook or whatever the the thing I find most like repugnant about the whole thing is that they're attempting to seem approachable aren't they and the thing that I hate about it and the thing that that really winds me up is it's the because it's coming from a corporation for example Facebook who are the ones that commissioned you know what became um the originator of this style is to me it feels like a used car salesman putting his arm around you and going trust me it's that kind of vibe that I get from it it's like I don't trust you at all and like this facade that you've put up in front of me is not fooling me for a second.

SPEAKER_03 23:27

It's Facebook is your friend yeah um we are that we are the people we are the person you want in you know we're not the product that you want we're the person you want in your room with you watching you all of the time isn't that right Alexa um that's why I've got headphones on yeah yeah and and as such you know we we're able to give it we're able to give so much of our lives to these corporations because we get convinced that we're here to serve you not to make money out of you as much money as to get your data yeah or in terms of Facebook not to yeah sell things to you and to you're actually the product which is a bit creepy. There's a um there's a good book called uh how to make friends and influence people and that and that's all about yeah yeah and that's all about marketing and uh you know kind of like and that's exactly what this corporate Memphis style is it's making friends isn't it and you if you think you've got like a a little digital friend uh you know guiding you through a complex process then that that's that's nice isn't it that's good if you don't feel as left and alone and as stupid because you can't figure it out because there's someone someone very specifically designed to look as if to say you're wrong it's okay it's not your fault you're wrong you're stupid but that's that's it you're a good person and it's a real shame that all these influences have made you make terrible decisions. So we'll guide you this yeah yeah we'll guide you through this and feel good buy this to feel good and it's just uh it's um it's that sinister that sinister overtones which which get get me um there was a point I was gonna say actually and I've I've just forgotten it. I've forgotten it and remembered it about three times over the point of this conversation. I had a point that oh go on I remembered um and that is that where you know they might be selling you these this abstract thing can be selling you something that that is abstract and intangible it might be trying to sell you the experience I think a lot of it trying to sell you through this imagery the intended consequences the the way you'll feel um and and what will happen the good things that will happen when if and when you use our software or buy our product and I get that with um you get you see it a lot with um fragrance commercials. Oh they're nonsense are they adverts for fragrances and you know of course the idea is you wear this and you'll all of a sudden be a very beautiful woman in Paris getting um getting your getting your wrists off yeah getting your rocks off by the photographer who's you know not creepy at all not creepy because consent is implied and it's all kind of problems.

SPEAKER_04 26:43

I don't know where this is game are well it's it could it could go very swiftly into into what I think is wrong with with trying to sell those products like that yeah and the modification of consent but that's a big old topic in it yeah C UX files so one one thing as well I wanted to like bring up and I know you've got uh an opinion about this mark so this is like a this is your time yeah this is your populace red red for a bowl yeah so so one of the things that they did and it's even in the documentation for the for this like design package that they put together but they made it so it was it was done to like tackle the the idea of uh inclusivity and stuff as well and what they did and what they actually specifically said in the document was that it they they got rid of like realistic skin tone human skin tones uh whatever that colour is and replaced it with like unrealistic skin tones that don't exist and they actually what they actually did was produce something that is so inclusive that it doesn't even contain real people they've excluded everyone and therefore it's inclusive and I know you mark have got have got thoughts on that I've got I think that is ultimately a false equivalent yeah I think it's a a very interesting way of completely avoiding the issue um by including no one you're not making any kind of statement you're remaining remaining dangerously neutral by trying not to associate yourself with any kind of um any kind of social conversation or or or there I say political conversation socio political I guess um because you're turning around and saying well we're dealing with alien people you know it's anything and it's almost as if to say anything you infer from this is not our fault.

SPEAKER_03 28:48

Yeah we've we've not said a thing and that's a very dangerous position to be in because the moment you say you're not saying anything is in itself a very large statement I think it's it's like the whole idea of evil triumphs when good people do nothing but not quite that extreme innit? Yeah you could yeah it's not quite that extreme it's just incredibly avoidant and it does and I can say as a minority I'm a gay man so um I fall into that bracket I can say that you do not represent me by not representing me if you avoid you know including um I don't know shall we say homosexual type narratives uh and telling the stories of homosexual people because you avoid telling the stories of heterosexual people that's not that's not helping me if anything you're just trying to drag other people everyone down to the same level instead of raising everyone up to the same level and I think if you if you avoid using skin tones for example you avoid you're not solving a problem you're uh you're absolutely avoiding it and you're specifically avoiding con conversations about race and about um black people and anyone who hasn't got a a a white skin tone a c a Caucasian skin tone and I think that is it's very very problematic it's a difficult conversation to have though in it which is why they default to this like non-representation.

SPEAKER_00 30:25

Yeah because the moment that well let's uh you know not to be controversial but social media makes a lot of money out of out of the people it would upset by by making a statement for inclusivity um it's it's being very specifically neutral um and I think that in itself is an intended stance um uh because it it doesn't exclude any potential customer base because again anything you infer if you decide that Facebook is being racist then that's your decision because they've not made a statement either way and that's a very easy position to defend uh rightfully or wrongfully um that's my that's my two cents on the matter anyway yeah is Paul still with us I am still with you yeah I've just got your camera's been frozen for it frozen frozen trying to sort it out for me tried unplugging it have you tried turning it off and back on again yeah I have yeah classic IT help classic classic IT help is no help at all in my experience yeah yeah did that help though Nick no no it didn't excellent I'll just be closing the support ticket now thanks for responding that's all technically we need definitely you raise really good points Mark and I think you know I think some it kind of it kind of borders on though kind of like what the principles of your company stand for um and some some of it when you try and force it in like there's this um something that grates me on channel four is um there's a sponsorship on there and it's uh two girlfriends um and they've lost the key and it's all very kind of like but they seem to show it on programs that are um you know kind of um it it's a sin and things like that because that's that's kind of like the company is cynically placed isn't it yeah and it's and that the right people are gonna see it yeah yeah and it's that woke washing kind of thing that I think there's there's a really fine line on being inclusive but if if actually your company doesn't stand for that or it just has one message that it keeps putting out every time you know pride's on or something else then well I was I was gonna raise that actually because we now call it in the gay community we now call it corporate pride because because I and I remember the games company Bethesda um had the pride flag on all of their western Twitters but as soon as you got to um territories that were where it was more of an issue where gay people didn't have the same rights um they didn't change their to their profiles on that those Twitters.

SPEAKER_03 33:33

So and that was just one example the communications for shall we say Middle Eastern territories were very different compared to what was happening in their American or English communications and I thought well as I say as and as you say it it's because we we're supporting you without supporting you we're supporting you where we already know you're supported. You don't need our support you know I I do better as a gay man in England than the majority of gay men in the Middle East do that's for damn sure but they're not willing to have the conversation there where it would actually mean something where it would count for something because they'd offend a few people and they'd they'd they'd risk losing customers.

SPEAKER_04 34:24

Yeah yeah it's saying saying something without saying anything at all absolutely absolutely well it's doing it's doing the absolute bare minimum in it which you you see as soon as the day after Pride Month ends and everyone switches the logos back to the branding colours.

SPEAKER_03 34:40

Absolutely absolutely and Pete in fact the corporations around this are so cynical now that they've picked up on the fact that we've picked up on this is what they're doing and we'll occasionally leave it a week longer or a month longer. I noticed that this year yeah yeah yeah and that's because you know the the these corporations aren't aren't doing anything to support gay rights they're just kind of waving a little fl flag and hoping that as a result we'll buy their products and it's just yeah it's the th the thin veil, the thin veneer has just peeled away and I don't think they're fooling anyone no if you don't put anything on the line you you can say whatever you want essentially or you can say nothing and get away with it can't you? Yeah there was uh someone on my LinkedIn made an interesting point and he his he his he was part of a big meeting in his co his company and they asked him because he was a gay man what should we be doing with our branding to see you know to to quote unquote support pride and he turned around and said well probably nothing because what has this company actually done to support pride to support gay people and the guy the guy kind of just looked at him aghast as if to say you want us to do say nothing? But how will people know that we support gay people?

SPEAKER_04 36:11

And it's like well do you do you really well yeah you don't it people don't need to know that you support gay people you just need to support gay people.

SPEAKER_03 36:19

Yeah yeah exactly everyone everyone wants people to know about the good work that they're doing anonymously yeah yeah absolutely absolutely and but the point in fact is most of these companies aren't doing anything anonymous or otherwise they're just being that for a time that was classed as doing something which you know and for a time it did yeah yeah you know for for that first couple of years or or when it started to gather momentum it was enabling dialogues it was it was it was getting the word out there there was huge articles being written about you know what people were doing for what corporations were doing for Pride Month uh I remember Skittles had a campaign where they they made all their Skittles white I think and that was because for that month uh the rainbow was ours and that's a really that's a really nice nice um campaign I don't feel offended by that campaign I feel the opposite I do feel empowered by that but the point is is that raised the bar so much and it it's no longer raising the bar we've had that conversation it's done its job so I've I've heard anecdotally you'd have to probably fact check me on this but the first time they did that they really lost a lot of money and like maybe some market share based around that the the good the thing that indicates that they probably actually care is the fact that they did it again.

SPEAKER_04 37:46

Yeah. Knowing that that'll probably happen again.

SPEAKER_03 37:49

Yeah it's it's putting it to be effective though you do have to put your money where your mouth is.

SPEAKER_04 37:55

Yeah well that's it if you if you if you do something that is the right thing to do knowing that you'll lose money it's probably quite a good indicator that you're actually doing it for the right reasons not just doing it because it's Deriger and everyone's doing it. You've got to keep up with the Joneses which I guess to bring us full circle is kind of why um this art style like proliferated because it was very much that kind of mentality the it's a reaction in it to to someone doing something quite revolutionary.

SPEAKER_03 38:29

Yeah yeah and I think in a sense if if the original style uh that the Allegra style that that book created if that was intentionally and I imagine it was intentionally neutral um and that would be I think that's absolutely fine but I don't think it's appropriate to market that as inclusive because neutrality isn't inclusive.

SPEAKER_04 38:57

So do would you say that not being exclusive or excluding is different to being inclusive?

SPEAKER_03 39:06

Uh yeah yeah I would actually that's very that's a very good summary. I think you know if you aren't making an active effort to include people then you aren't including them at all. You know and we don't feel I mean I don't feel included if you you know as I say if you're just excluding everyone else as well as me that doesn't make me all of a sudden feel included. Um so I think and and I would go as far to say that because of the nature of of Facebook and and it's trying to to include everyone which includes the bigots as well in its um in its customer base in its user base that it would probably have given the brief to be as neutral as opposed to being as inclusive and that just seems to be the spin they've tried to put on things.

SPEAKER_04 39:59

Yeah. I'd be interested I'd be interested to to go back through and and read the actual wording and see if it's if it actually specifies neutral rather than inclusive.

SPEAKER_00 40:11

I am still here, yes. Um I'm just listening intently. Yeah, well, uh yeah, I'm I'm gonna uh bring this back to kind of why corporate Memphis is everywhere. Um and interestingly, I think there's a lot of like uh culture to play at this. I mean, kind of like if you look at you know, kind of like the um TV shows where young designers are, you know, coming from like um Adventure Time, um what else is the kind of all those kind of like cartoon network kind of shows that have those the noodle arms and the rubber limbs and the legs which are the amazing world of gumball? Oh yeah, and it's all very bright colours, uh you know, with black outlines, and that's you know, kind of like is that part of you know this uh corporate Memphis because of kind of like you know, we've been grown up on these TV shows, and we've grown up on you know this style, and before then, you know, kind of like you know, looking looking in your background, uh Nick, you know, things were a bit more turtles-esque, a bit more um, you know, kind of that he-man style back then, but you know, the the I think the acceptance was kind of like back in the day was you know, let's get a photo shoot, let's get it, you know, hundred percent real, let's get um and then stock imagery came along, and I think stock image destroyed design it um in a really negative way because then you see all kind of like you know, the same people with the headsets on, the sexy woman, um, you know, she's gonna answer your phone call when you phone this uh corporation up, and you see the same people, and like I'm sure she doesn't work for three companies, uh, and it ruins your trust then of kind of like stock images, and and and and you know, I think when you're searching for stock images, I was doing this the other day, and it's soul destroying. You put in technology and you get all these bloody uh white male suit guys drawing on whiteboards, you get this whole thing.

SPEAKER_04 42:26

Your success with images like that, your success with image banks like that is how creative you are with your search terms, isn't it? Now, yeah, yeah, yeah, definitely. Yeah, yeah, definitely quite quite specific. I think there's a really interesting point in there about how you're saying that um for um image banks destroyed like design. It's pretty interesting that Unsplash has destroyed image banks now because everywhere you turn, because it's free and the photographs on there arguably are pretty good.

SPEAKER_03 42:54

You see them everywhere. Well, this is true. Um, but that's because it's doing a lot to I was gonna say to support, but I'm not sure how much it actually does to support freelance photographers.

SPEAKER_04 43:06

I think it's just it's that mentality of it to be good exposure for you, yeah, yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_03 43:11

And that's well, uh you know, I I have often thought, oh, I like that photo. Yep, yeah, but it uh so I go and find out who took it and then follow them on various socials. But that's my mentality. I do the same thing after I've read books and and I've after I've um listened to music. Um not that I think I've probably a minority when it comes to uh doing that with people on Unsplash, especially when it comes to corporations crediting stuff. They just uh you know I like what Adobe do, I must admit. Every release, I don't know how they do it, but their art is is created in the in the products you're you're in. Uh typically for Facebook and Illustrator, Facebook, Photoshop.

SPEAKER_04 43:56

I imagine those artists I feel like I would default to expecting that those artists get dicked over in terms of it. I imagine it's a competition as opposed to them getting air. Yeah, but I like the concept, I like that they're they're doing that, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 44:14

Yeah, it's it's a nice idea, and it could be taken a bit further to be more to be more, yeah, to to pay its artists well, to provide exposure, to support them. Uh but yeah, I completely agree with what you're saying there, Paul.

SPEAKER_00 44:27

And then also as well, you know, you bring uh uh brought up uh Unsplash and kind of like because that is free, uh there's a really good um thing for Figma called humans with three A's. Yes. Uh and that that is everywhere, and that is you can download this uh library of interchangeable bodies and heads and uh actions and plants and things like that that are used everywhere. And I think um I I read an article a few weeks ago, and the guy who created it um said, you know, they must have millions and millions of downloads of that uh library, and that is used everywhere, and you know, kind of like that is because that's free, is that because you know it's got no uh kind of licensing or any kind of limits on where you can use it? Um so yeah, so that that's a bit apart to blame as well.

SPEAKER_04 45:28

I'm so glad that you mentioned that because that was one of my notes to mention. So the the second that I saw that that was saturation point, and that was the moment where I was like, oh, this is done. This is done now. This style, as we need to start, you know, as because because actually, when when we found that it was because we were looking to to put in a style of our own into the product. I was like, we need to start looking at the next thing, this is done now, yeah. This is gonna be everywhere, and not only that, but that in particular, that humans thing, is just about the the bottom of the barrel in terms of that style. It's so it's so basic and so like it's so poorly executed, it's like entry-level illustration, sort of. I mean, not to cast shade on anyone, but it's like graduate style illustration, I think that is. And it's it's compared to the originator, which we now know is um that Allegria, it's it's crap.

SPEAKER_00 46:32

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 46:33

But the fact that they've componentised it now and turned it into a system and a free one at that for anyone who's got Figma was the last nail in the coffin, I think. Yeah, because it's everywhere now, absolutely everywhere.

SPEAKER_00 46:45

It is, and I think um I you see isometric design, that's creeping up as well, and that's becoming the next corporate Memphis, and everybody's doing isometric design, and and that oh god, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 46:59

I'd I'd I'd quite like to spend a pot the a portion of like the next 15 minutes really talking about where we think it's going.

SPEAKER_00 47:07

Yep.

SPEAKER_04 47:09

So tune into the Patreon extended version for that content. Hey Michael, you've got there, Nick. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 47:17

Now it's time for our recurring segment UX Tombola. Every episode we wheel out the UX Tomboler machine, which randomly selects a product, thing, or process for us to discuss the UX of, whether good, bad, or ugly.

SPEAKER_04 47:30

So we're having a Screamo one today, are we?

SPEAKER_03 47:33

Are you doing the yeah. Go on.

SPEAKER_04 47:36

Go on. I I only know one Scream or song. I don't even think it's Screamo. It's like a Lincoln Park song.

SPEAKER_03 47:43

Then no, it's not Screamo, and I think we're gonna get some very angry letters from the Scream or metal community.

unknown 47:52

Crawling!

SPEAKER_01 47:56

UX Tomballer thing.

SPEAKER_04 48:00

It's hard to be artistic when you sat with your fucking head in your hands, Mark. Judging there. It just don't work. UX Tomboler is not a very lyrical set of words, is it? No, too many, too many syllables. So right, someone stick your hand in the hole and give it a tug. Oh.

SPEAKER_03 48:18

Oh, the norm's getting excited. Oh dude. Right. Okay. Uh what have we got today?

SPEAKER_00 48:25

It is seamless.

SPEAKER_04 48:31

Nick button, you can tell me what it is. I can't fucking read. We've been doing this for like a year now, would you? Exams. Exams. Exams. What? This is um it's quite a good year to talk about that actually, because the they changed it up a little bit this year, didn't they? Yeah. And the teachers that have been teaching the children for the past five years were asked to grade the children, which seems like a fucking fantastic idea when you think about it, doesn't it?

SPEAKER_03 49:03

Yeah. Yeah. I think I think that's it. The misnomer with exams is that what you're doing is you're consolidating years and years and years of educational experience into like four questions. And it just becomes an absolute fucking potluck as to whether you were good at that module and good at that bit, and it's more a test of your memory than it is of your skill.

SPEAKER_00 49:33

Yeah. And and let's face it, nowadays, when would you ever be in the situation of like an exam where you have to be kind of like, oh, just wait a minute, uh, let me do some long multiplication on this and I'll get back to without a calculator. Yeah, I'll get back to you in 10 minutes. Uh or or when would you never, you know, look on Wikipedia and Google things?

SPEAKER_03 49:57

Uh well, even even your GP sits there with Google to remind him, yeah. And I'm not gonna say that I mean I'm not gonna turn around and say I could do that. I mean, I wouldn't want to flick through those pictures on Google, you know, when Doris is inquiring about a colonoscopy for the 16th time.

SPEAKER_04 50:16

And yeah, when they spin round in the chair and type in common cold into Google though, you know you're in trouble, don't you? What is what is a pimple?

SPEAKER_03 50:30

And then of course, WebMD tells you that you're gonna die or that you're already dead. Oh, like search anything, so I've got an ingrowing hair. Yep, you're a corpse. It's the only it's the only description. But um, I think well, so the UX of exams as it currently stands, is that you tend to be shuffled into a big hall, you do it all on paper unless you've got certain accessibility needs.

SPEAKER_04 51:08

I was just gonna say, is it all on paper still?

SPEAKER_03 51:11

Yeah, yeah. Um and you it requires invigilators, uh, and this is this is regardless of the type of exams you're doing, whether you're doing um exam exams as an adult. Uh I remember when I was older and I was doing my grade five music theory exam, and that was exactly the same. Um and so you've got these invigilators who are paid by the hour, um you know, I don't know if they're paid well, I doubt it, to stand in front of the room and pay attention to everyone, which feels like like almost a Zen Buddhist level of of of job to be alert and aware in every direction for a four-hour exam. Oh my god, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 51:59

That must be I think that's on par with my uh my job uh standing on a changing cloakroom in a uh well-known retail shop, uh, and it was like watching paint dry. Why six. Say that again.

SPEAKER_04 52:17

You got in place you got employed and paid to hang around a changing room.

SPEAKER_00 52:21

Yeah, yeah. Yeah, not in a good way, like you're thinking.

SPEAKER_01 52:30

I'm not sure we just admit that. That was a bit you were paid for. It was a bit why you were fired.

SPEAKER_03 52:37

You know what we do, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 52:39

Well, you hand out tokens, oh, you were taking four things into the uh change in room.

SPEAKER_03 52:44

That system's a complete fucking mystery as well.

SPEAKER_00 52:48

Arbitrary, and that's yeah, it's like a super bull room. Um what one thing I will ask though, um, because with uh exams, I'm gonna put into the barrel uh drive-in exams or drive-in tests.

SPEAKER_04 53:03

Technically qualifies.

SPEAKER_03 53:05

Yeah, isn't it no? Is it a form of exam?

SPEAKER_04 53:08

I mean, prostate exams technically qualify, so we could talk about those if you want.

SPEAKER_03 53:13

Yeah, we could. Yeah, that's you don't require an individual for that one, do you?

SPEAKER_04 53:18

I know, but I do like I do like someone else to be in the room.

SPEAKER_03 53:21

Yeah, you do like being watched. Yeah, yeah, essentially. Okay. Well, that's Greg's pasta. You, I need you, sir. It's like, oh, I thought you'd never ask. Um yeah, well, the other thing I'd say about any exam like more like a school exam, is uh you tend to be gifted, you know, you tend to be rewarded if you've got quick handwriting.

SPEAKER_04 53:50

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 53:51

You know, and and I feel like it's so much quicker to type on a laptop and so much easier that I wonder why in your English exam.

SPEAKER_04 54:03

Yeah, well you get marked on spelling though, don't you?

SPEAKER_00 54:05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 54:07

Do you get do you get marked on spelling in your English exam? Spelling and punctuation, yeah. Yeah. Um because I did uh I did a couple, I've got a few English GCSEs. Because I've got I've got a stupid amount of GCSEs. I've got like 16 or 17 GCSEs, um and I've got the certificates for them all somewhere. Um and that's just because our school said, oh well, you'll be able to do that exam. It's for the less bright ones. You might as well do it and get another GCSE. Um how many are you supposed to have? Most people have about 11, I think. Um I don't think I've got eleven, but that's I don't I don't think I've got eleven.

SPEAKER_04 54:49

Yeah, that's pretty much. I filled out a I filled out a form saying how many I've got, and I'm sure it said like six. But I don't like no, but I failed.

SPEAKER_03 54:59

I just I just laughed at you then. I didn't mean for that to come across like that.

SPEAKER_04 55:03

I haven't got six because I passed them all, so I have I haven't got six because I failed ten of them. It's like I mean I did all the ones I was entered for. Maybe that's the key. Maybe that's the key. Yeah, maybe string a fucking sentence together so English test and waste of paper.

SPEAKER_03 55:21

Don't bother. Yeah, well I've got I mean, I've got four science GCSEs.

SPEAKER_00 55:27

Four science?

SPEAKER_03 55:28

Yeah, because we did yeah, we did separate science and then they just threw us into the combined science one as well because they knew we'd be able to do it because we'd been doing the separate.

SPEAKER_00 55:39

I got robbed on sciences at school. I I did three subjects that counted for two GCSEs. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 55:47

So we did biology, chemistry, and physics, and it classed as one.

SPEAKER_00 55:52

Yeah. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 55:54

So that's combined science, yeah, that we did, uh, as well as our separate science one.

SPEAKER_04 55:59

Combined science, aka science. Science. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 56:04

Yeah. Um I I also have I have an art GCSE and a graphics GCSE and a graphics technology GCSE.

SPEAKER_04 56:14

Alright, yeah, they did that with my A levels. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 56:18

Well, my my high school was a uh and still is, it's like a technology college, or at least it fancy itself. So we had to do uh a technology subject. I did graphic design. Um it was a lot of bollocks, really. Um the but the most remarkable thing about that class was how big my teacher's head was.

SPEAKER_00 56:42

She had a fucking enormous head. This is because this is because the doctor wasn't Googling the right things. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Syndrome from fucking beam hospital. It's attended, it's attending and sitting through all those exams and vigilating them.

SPEAKER_04 57:06

Yeah, she's just running through osmosis.

SPEAKER_03 57:08

I do wonder if if you bought as an invigilator, you just sit there and do the exam yourself for shits and giggles. I could be driven to that point.

SPEAKER_00 57:18

It's like Yeah, but then you're not watching the kids, then cheating.

SPEAKER_03 57:22

Yeah, no, but I wouldn't do that anyway. I mean, come on. The invigilators sit there whispering to themselves about how twatted they got like the weekend.

SPEAKER_00 57:30

They're not watching for have you seen this meme for the meme lord? Yeah, that's it.

SPEAKER_04 57:37

He's gonna be a meme lord when he's older.

SPEAKER_03 57:39

Yeah, yeah. I know that one. That guy there, he's but he's dank him. His memes are dank.

SPEAKER_00 57:45

Yeah, a guy who writes everything in impact.

SPEAKER_04 57:53

Oh, very good, Paul. Very good. I just realized that we wanted to introduce a session where Mark Steele does uh an impromptu ad for the product, isn't it? Is it Mark Steeler? Is that the right name? It's Mark Steeler, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 58:07

Mark Steeler and John Wheeler. Is Mark Steeler there today? Have we come up with a I could ask him? I could ask him.

SPEAKER_04 58:14

We need to so we need to solutionise right now, and then Mark Steele needs to come and advertise it. Come and advertise it, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 58:20

Well, what's our solution then?

SPEAKER_04 58:22

So I reckon that you should have a device that each student gets that has the test on it. So the uh the actual device is part of the like the the test kit, and and whatever it is allows like a s a seamless, um, unfakeable way of entering the data into the test. And also, if you're allowed a c a calculator in the test, it's got the calculator on it and stuff as well.

SPEAKER_03 58:45

Well, you see, I think that all tests should allow people to bring their notes. Yeah, you know because they've made research that they've done the fucking research. Nowhere in real life, unless you'd lose your note bat bat well your notebook as a stroke you know if you lose that, then it's your own fault. But nowhere in real life, unless you do that, do you not have your notes either on your computer or or with it? Yeah, I know.

SPEAKER_04 59:26

I've I've just realized actually the real solution is probably closer to what they actually did this year, which is let the person who knows them and knows their aptitude give them a grade.

SPEAKER_00 59:34

I I think I think they should be graded over time and not on a instance. No, a single instant.

SPEAKER_03 59:42

Where if you have a bad day, and a lot of people do, there are you know, there are kids now who have to go to therapy because of how much stress is put on their GTSEs.

SPEAKER_04 59:52

Something just having a test will throw you off.

SPEAKER_03 59:55

Yeah, yeah. And something which uh I might add so so. For our younger viewers who have got a lot of worry about the GCSEs, it's only ever referred to once in your entire life, and that's if you go into college.

SPEAKER_04 1:00:08

It's just the next step. It's just the next step. And then that next step is important for the next step. It's just gatekeeping, essentially, isn't it? It's a load of bollocks. It is fucking bollocks. Because just because you're good at a test or bad at a test doesn't mean that you can't do a job or you're not bright. It certainly doesn't mean that you're not bright. That's that's absurd.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:29

Wasn't it uh Stephen Hawking said um those who boast about their IQ have are thick, well, you know, yeah, powerful that sounds that sounds like something one of the world's greatest men, Stephen Hawking. That sounds like something it actually went like this. He was oh lovely, lovely.

SPEAKER_04 1:00:56

Uh I was having this conversation, not this conversation, I've never had this conversation before. Yeah, well, that's the truth. I was having this conversation with Drew the other week, and I likened taking tests to like the UFC. The same two people can fight three times in the UFC, and you can have three different results. One can win one time, the other can win the other time, and it can be a draw on the third occasion. And that's just like taking a test. If you have an off day, if you're not well, if you're nervous, you could do really badly.

SPEAKER_03 1:01:23

And that's it, that's meant to assess you for the rest of your life. The rest of your life, it's nonsense, it's nonsense, it's bollocks.

SPEAKER_04 1:01:29

Uh so we need a product.

SPEAKER_03 1:01:31

Sorry. There was a point I wanted to make about IQ tests because as you say, I I think IQ is a load of bollocks because I think IQ shows you how good you are at doing IQ tests. Yes, yeah. It doesn't mean that you're clever, it means that you're good at doing one very specific kind of test. And that test read and do maths to do it as well, don't you? Yeah, apparently, yeah, yeah. But you know, it's is that the same kind of mathematics that's applicable to to like neuroscience or or or electrical engineers or combined sciences, yeah. Or an invigilator.

SPEAKER_04 1:02:17

Yeah, let's yeah, as an individual, let's see your fucking results.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:21

Yeah, exactly. Mr.

SPEAKER_03 1:02:23

IT. Yeah, that's why they're doing that job, though. And I guarantee, I guarantee the people who do boast about their IQ are all exclusively men. Oh yeah, yeah. I can that's just uh I'm just throwing that out there. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:36

I disagree with that. What's our product? What's our I think it's some sort of um in fact there there is uh there's there's a few kind of smart toys that do this. Um so kind of like I remember uh when Ted was a baby, he had this little uh uh Leaprog uh laptop thing, and when he did things right on it, it gave you a little report and a little stat and every time he interacted with it. So I think a lifelong kind of like data set like uh Google Analytics Google Analytics on your life.

SPEAKER_04 1:03:18

Yeah, I was gonna say like Ziggy from Quantum Leap. You'll have to you'll have to explain what that is. For those not born in the 80s, you need to watch more of the things that I've watched, Mark. Yes, yes, thank you. Yeah, and I yeah, my friend uh owns an analytics company and he had an analytics tool, and I was so close to getting him to call it zigger, it was it was on it was tangible, and then he went with something else instead. Probably better to be honest, but shame. Uh anyway, sorry, but uh who had the idea, Paul?

SPEAKER_00 1:03:54

Yeah, me, yeah, Google Analytics for Google Analytics for your life for education or your life, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:04:00

So you get that could go either way, couldn't it? That's very black mirror.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:04

Yeah, it is a bit black mirror, but actually it gives you good data over a period of time, doesn't it?

SPEAKER_03 1:04:11

So yeah, how do companies use it to make money against your um against your consent? I think just a book. Yeah, yeah. And they've already got it all anyway, so never mind. I saw an interesting quote once which was trying to be aloof, which is uh people say that you know the world's gonna be is like uh 1984, but in 1984 people didn't choose to have the screens worth losing. Yeah, they're thrust upon them. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:04:48

And the yeah, they uh they didn't they didn't choose to edit their own language either that was thrust upon them, weren't it? Yeah, and yeah, editing ours.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:58

And for another podcast, we should uh talk about the um metaverse. Um have you seen the uh uh VR horrific metaverse? Where so you kind of put a VR headset in and you're uh become a computer embodied person. Uh and it's Mark Zuckerberg's uh but he doesn't call it the metaverse, he calls it some uh called uh intra life internet life or something, ah some bullshit term anyway.

SPEAKER_03 1:05:26

Something that sounds like it can be sold.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:29

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:05:30

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:31

That's it that's a horrific thing. Anyway, Nikki were gonna say.

SPEAKER_04 1:05:35

I don't know if I was gonna say anything. Oh, we need no, we just need a product, don't we?

SPEAKER_03 1:05:39

Yeah, well we've got one. Yeah, yeah. What we're gonna call it.

SPEAKER_04 1:05:42

What is it? Google Analytics for your life.

SPEAKER_03 1:05:45

Yeah, how about how it yeah, what's it doing? It is it's like the edge of the for exams, isn't it?

SPEAKER_04 1:05:52

Because that's what the product was, that's what the tombler was. So it's a thing, it's a product that you sell to schools to allow children to be assessed over your instead of over years instead of over edulytics.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:08

Yeah, I want no, I just want to say I just want to say that to see uh Mark Steele. I'm doing the mental gymnastics in the head.

SPEAKER_04 1:06:20

What's something that assesses you over years? Uh uh Cambridge Analytica Facebook.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:32

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:06:33

What about book book? Oh no, that's book book. Book book. Book book's already a thing. IKEA did the uh the Ikea book book. No, edge case is in like education, education, education, edge case, edge case, education. Right. Education, education.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:53

I'll go, I'll go get let's go with it.

SPEAKER_03 1:06:56

I'll go get Mark.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:59

Mark, come on, Mark.

SPEAKER_04 1:07:02

I'm gonna mute myself for this because I'm gonna laugh like a fucking hyena. Oh no, no.

SPEAKER_03 1:07:06

Don't worry, you can uh you can um you can mute, we'll just quieten you down if you're laughing all over. Yeah, yeah. It's a bit sinister if you're the only one like in the room. Um we've got we've got another product for you. Sounds suspiciously like Max and Cliff, doesn't it? I know I'm not in character yet. Yeah. I just love love how Kazia is.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:34

I am a but anyone who can see the video, it just shouting into a cloth. It's a microfiber cloth.

SPEAKER_03 1:07:46

I got it from uh from Mark Steeler. Right, Mark, how are you doing? I'm alright, thank you, son. I'm alright. I use the market I I use the market these days. Oh, it's great. It's fairly fine. Um Right, we've got now Educase.

SPEAKER_02 1:08:02

Right, what the fuck is Educase then? Right, I'm a Mark Steeler with my latest product that will help you assess your child over a longer period of time instead of a moment fucking once. It's called Educase, and it will stalk your kids throughout their school life and assess them accordingly. They won't be judged for just one off day, they'll be judged for all of them.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:32

That's that's funny.

SPEAKER_00 1:08:35

That was amazing.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:37

Right, we're thanks Mark, you can get back in your cupboard now.

SPEAKER_02 1:08:49

Judging children since 2022.

SPEAKER_00 1:08:55

Next June.

SPEAKER_02 1:08:57

Well, it's still in RD, isn't it? Coming soon. Coming soon to a school near you, whether you want it or not. Find me telling them at the bottom of the playground. Alright, Mark, same we're down.

SPEAKER_00 1:09:13

Oh god. Hilarious. Love it. Is that us?

SPEAKER_03 1:09:23

And that wraps up another episode. Thanks for listening. Don't forget you can sign up to our Patreon at patreon.com forward slash fasterhorses for an exclusive extended version of this episode, as well as one bonus episode a month and other perks detailed on the site. Don't forget to subscribe on your preferred streaming service and follow us on Twitter. Catch you in a couple of weeks for another episode of Faster Horses.