Behind the Breakthrough

How Barry Habib Became the Mortgage Industry's Biggest Rockstar

February 11, 2020 Industry Syndicate Episode 1
Behind the Breakthrough
How Barry Habib Became the Mortgage Industry's Biggest Rockstar
Behind the Breakthrough
How Barry Habib Became the Mortgage Industry's Biggest Rockstar
Feb 11, 2020 Episode 1
Industry Syndicate

When you think of the most respected, most well known personality in the mortgage industry, Barry Habib is at the top of the list. Mortgage Loan Officers all over the country know Barry Habib as the Founder and CEO of MBS Highway, and the guy the trust most to keep them in the know about economic trends, interest rates, and how they both affect the average homebuyer or borrower.

But like anyone else, Barry Habib had to start somewhere. That somewhere, was the bottom.

In the very first episode of Behind the Breakthrough, host Megan Anderson gets Barry to tell his story of what it was like starting out as a mortgage loan originator in his mid-20's, with no real industry experience. You'll hear about Barry Habib's journey to become one of the most successful mortgage loan originators in the country, and the struggles he had to persevere to make that happen.

*Behind the Breakthrough is an Industry Syndicate Original podcast, the first and only podcast network for the real estate and mortgage industry.

Looking for the best podcasts for Real Estate Agents and Mortgage Loan Officers?

Download the new Industry Syndicate mobile app:

Follow the Industry Syndicate on social media:

ⓒ 2020 Industry Syndicate podcast network

Show Notes Transcript

When you think of the most respected, most well known personality in the mortgage industry, Barry Habib is at the top of the list. Mortgage Loan Officers all over the country know Barry Habib as the Founder and CEO of MBS Highway, and the guy the trust most to keep them in the know about economic trends, interest rates, and how they both affect the average homebuyer or borrower.

But like anyone else, Barry Habib had to start somewhere. That somewhere, was the bottom.

In the very first episode of Behind the Breakthrough, host Megan Anderson gets Barry to tell his story of what it was like starting out as a mortgage loan originator in his mid-20's, with no real industry experience. You'll hear about Barry Habib's journey to become one of the most successful mortgage loan originators in the country, and the struggles he had to persevere to make that happen.

*Behind the Breakthrough is an Industry Syndicate Original podcast, the first and only podcast network for the real estate and mortgage industry.

Looking for the best podcasts for Real Estate Agents and Mortgage Loan Officers?

Download the new Industry Syndicate mobile app:

Follow the Industry Syndicate on social media:

ⓒ 2020 Industry Syndicate podcast network

spk_1:   0:03
welcome to behind the breakthrough with your host, Megan Anderson, the podcast where we tell the stories of today's leaders before they were leaders. The struggles doubts, fears and insecurities they had to overcome in order to reach their current level of success. Let's go ahead. Let's break through. Behind the breakthrough is an industry syndicate original podcast industry syndicate is the first podcast network for the real estate in mortgage industry. Go get the completely free industry syndicate Podcast app right now from the APP store or Google play Hi, everyone. And welcome Thio the podcast. We have a very special guest here today, the one the only very happy, even bury. I don't even feel like feel like everyone knows you that you don't even need an introduction in this space. But go ahead and tell the listeners that are listening right now that may not know you a little bit about yourself.

spk_0:   1:16
Well, that's, uh that's interesting. So, uh, I don't know how deep you want to go there, but I'm CEO of NBS Highway and we help people in the mortgage industry and real estate in this. You understand the markets as well as ah professional speaker for about 27 years now. And in addition to that, I have, ah, have some stuff that's fun in the entertainment space, where there's a couple of shows like Rock of Ages, that I produced and had been a mortgage business for a long time to a lot of production, the mortgage business. So those are just some of the quick banks.

spk_1:   1:50
How old Rio when you first got into the mortgage space.

spk_0:   1:53
So it was 26 which, uh, back when I got into the mortgage space, was there still considered to be pretty young and I had to overcome some challenges and that not only was I not experienced from from it from a technical point of view, but I was also quite young, and many of the people I was dealing with, uh, didn't have the confidence to put that transaction that was gonna put food on their table in the hands of someone who is wet behind the years and also on also young in years as well.

spk_1:   2:33
And how would you say that you overcame that that problem?

spk_0:   2:38
Well, before I had done that, I was I was in the stereo business on electronics business and I started. They're very young in my, you know, right around 20 years old. And the way that I was able Thio achieve some modest levels of success was by gaining expertise. So I devoured everything I could and read everything I could so that when someone spoke to me, uh, what I Hatice obstacles, perhaps in lack of experience or youth, was quickly overcome Once we started chatting and they gained confidence in me because of my level of knowledge. And I did the same approach on the mortgage business. But it wasn't just the mortgage business because I felt a Ziff. If I were able to deliver what you wanted and understand how to put a mortgage transaction together, that's really just the price of admission. That doesn't really set me apart. So what I wanted to try and do is understand the financial markets and understand how this really large transaction, perhaps the largest transaction that you may be making in your life can can be used in ways to create wealth for you. And that's where the breakthrough start to come was when people started talking with me and quickly seeing that I was able to help them and teach them things that they didn't know and that my competition didn't know. It opened up a different world for me very quickly.

spk_1:   4:07
Well, and if I remember correctly, there was, and I don't remember exactly what it was that you were kind of talking or the transaction that you were doing at the time. But I remember was that CNBC that had you on to talk about this type of mortgage that you were putting together for people?

spk_0:   4:24
Yeah. So I was in being creative financially. I was, if not the first, among the first people that started doing no closing costs, mortgages and nobody ever heard of it. It was very, very unusual. Whereas I would use premium from the lender with higher rate to pay the borrowers closing costs. And it just started to make refinances very easy. Back in the day, they used to be an old rule of thumb. It said, Don't refinance unless your rates 2% different, 2% better. And, you know, I kind of just smashed that old rule and say, Hey, looking for a very small difference, depending on your loan amount, half a percent quarter percent of your loan amounts very high. It could be very worthwhile for you to refinance. And when I started talking about this, I wrote several articles and CNBC actually had me come on and start talking about this. And it was like, you know, nobody had ever heard about this. That's a while. Can you really get that isn't true. And even lenders, people would would watch my segments on this on CNBC go to their lenders and the letters that we can't do. That s o people actually writing to CNBC's embarrassed that you could do it. And then I'd have to almost explain to lenders how they could do this, so it was quite different. But that was a big thing and also is really fortunate. I was on a show money talk, and I was very blessed because there was a woman who called in, and, uh, it was stressful. Thio be on TV to begin with, But then Thio answer questions that come in live. It's kind of scary, but I was able to handle them, and there was this one woman who called then and I was able to restructure her debts and give her some advice on refinancing well, really changed her life. And she wrote this like, unbelievable letter to CNBC on how it literally changed your life. And then CNBC kept having me on and on and on and eventually gave my own show. So it's interesting how things work out. That was quite the breakthrough, But none of that would have happened if I didn't do the work in events, but didn't. I didn't have the the initiative to want to be better than everyone else, to want to be able to change people's lives for the better. So it's very important. I think that many of us, we want to do a good job and we do what's required. But then you have to get in touch with your creativity and give people an experience in working with you. If after all, if we just do what they've told us they wanted, that's good. But after all, we just didn't screw up is all that we did. I think what we need to do is show people things that they don't know that they mean and in order for us to do that, we have to do a lot of work in advance to prepare, and I think that's a big difference there.

spk_1:   7:12
Yeah, and one thing, too, that I feel like you embody that you've probably always embodied and correct me if I'm wrong, is just being not forever Lerner getting out there learning things that you don't know so that you can be in a position of being an adviser.

spk_0:   7:28
Well, that never ends. So depends on I mean, you know how much of ah of a reader I am and networker I am and trying Thio always seek out people that I can learn from and people who have different areas of expertise and a lot of times people with varying or different thoughts or opinions Because maybe I can learn something. Maybe it can. We certainly don't always have the answers. We're not always going to be right. But if we have an open mind, I'm not saying straight from your opinion, just based on what everybody else says. It's a flip flop, but welcome challenges to your thought process and be tested on those because things change over time. What could be 100% correct today in your thinking? Uh, my change over time and what could be correct today could be incorrect tomorrow on. There needs to be some changes there, so I think that there's a lot of skill sets that we have to learn. One is you can't be married to. Your ideas should be married to the best idea and a CZ. Things change. It's okay to change, but you shouldn't flip flop for Avery quickly should try and kind of make sure that you're tested in your in your area and make sure that you can. You can get reinforced in your area of thought by speaking to people who who either have various varying opinions from what you're thinking, or perhaps people that you can learn from. I mean, I see these people out all the time. You know, I'm constantly in these mastermind groups and going to dinners with some of the smartest minds in the financial world. I'm very flattered that they include me in this and feel that potentially I can add something as well. But it's very interesting to talk with people, especially those that are really bright, who have differences in your thought process. It just opens your mind as to a CZ two trying to trying to constantly get better.

spk_1:   9:25
Now, when you started off in the mortgage space, did you ever suffer from because you were so new and you went from I mean, selling stereos out of the trunk, your card to writing mortgages? Did you ever suffer from kind of impostor syndrome? Or would you say that the knowledge of you going out there and learning all these things kept that in check?

spk_0:   9:48
So there was a step in between the start to make some money from from the stereo business that I had and started to dabble in real estate. So I dabbled in it in different areas. I bought some properties and rented them. I bought some properties and improve them and did the work, even myself, uh, and and then sold those properties. And then there were properties that I felt were an opportunity on new construction. I took the contract and then I flipped the contract. In fact, the very first mortgage application I did was this really wonderful gentleman. Milt Knocked Bar. It was around this young kid. He was buying a home. I had the contract that flipped in the contract gave him a great deal. And then I asked him if he'd be willing Thio to be my first very first mortgage applicant, and I told him that I had no experience in it. But if you would be patient with me, I would make sure I did a good job for him. Get all the answers. He kindly agreed on the true story of this Meghan. And you know this that I, uh I wound up selling them the home and then doing the mortgage, and and yes, I did sell him the stereo for that home is well, so yeah, So when I did get into the mortgage business, of course there's some degree of imposter syndrome. But I I really tried to just level with people and explained that I didn't have all of the answers to everything because learning the mortgage business, it's pretty hard on, and there were answers that I needed to get. But I would explain to people that would, and I would always keep in close contact with them so I would never go into the black hole. I would never duck their calls. I was very accessible, but I initiated a lot of the correspondence so that they felt that I was on it. You know, like this. This kid's on it. So they felt very comforted in the fact that I was. They knew that if I didn't have the answer, I was working on it. And if I even if I had nothing to say, I had the ability. This was just in eight. But I think everybody needs to develop this toe, understand that nobody likes the vacuum of time. And even if I didn't have the answer, even if I had nothing to say, I did not allow an amount of time to go by. That would create anxiety for the customer. And I think this is a very important thing, whatever you're in, even in relationships, because we, we tend to, in the absence of time, kind of think negative thoughts. And maybe it's that we feel we're being neglected or we're not. We're not important enough. So even if there's nothing to say, it's very comforting to hear that voice on the phone or even if it's today in the email or a text where somebody says, Hey, look, I just want to let you know I haven't heard anything yet, but I'm on it. I'm working to get you an answer as quickly as possible. I just want you to know you're important to me. I haven't forgot, you know, And that just builds a great relationship together. You oftentimes take adverse situations and you turn them into positives. And so many times, we, uh we're in a position where we shy away from challenges and problems and issues. And look, it's only natural that we don't really want and welcome problems. But if you think about the problems that you have become opportunities to show your character t really shine. And in the absence of that problem, you find yourself just doing a good job and giving a good experience. But if you really want to make that impression, sorry about that. If you really want to make that impression and have a great experience for the client, then if a problem comes up that gets resolved and that you responded to and that you take care of, uh, you're you're able to really shot, it's happened to me in the stereo business, and that's like the first lesson I learned there's Elektronik equipment, breaks and views. This kid's selling it out of the trunk of his car, and we didn't have email or things like that. We couldn't hire a person because there's a small business. So I would give an answering service number. When people call this answering service number, they had no clue what they were. Get anger. If somebody would answer the phone or call back, certainly. But I did call them back and I did drive out. And I did replace the item or fix the item that something went wrong with, and people were so blown away by it that they felt this law of reciprocity obligation to either buy more or tell everybody to do that. They need to buy stuff for me, and it turned bad situations into a big positive, not didn't do it because I did it because it was the right thing to do, and that's just the way that we should be wired to do things. But as it turns out, problems often time we two enormous opportunity, and if we view it that way, it really changes our perspective on the other. The other breakthroughs came from you in many different ways of removing points of friction. So I think that's a big thing that we all need to think about. Thinking about points of friction is really important. Where are there areas that we come across? Friction points? Where can we streamline processes? Make them were more friendly, pleasurable, easier. Expect seditious, save time, save money. How can you remove a point of friction? And you know, I try and do that every day at NBS Highway. I mean, you know, it's It's a relentless search to see where there are areas that we could make things better. I never just look at something and accepted, and you see that we do that every single day with the products that we have. What your great nobody's even asking for this change. But I challenged myself to look at things that what? How can we make this better? It would be better if we could do this.

spk_1:   15:45
Yes, you have. You have such a always wanting to step it up mindset and your You've always been so creative. I mean, I've heard stories about, you know, going thio the toll booths to try and get mortgages to in turn, get all the toll booth guys and do their mortgage. You've always had this kind of creative insight. Now, do you think that that creativity kind of stemmed from your childhood or anything in particular?

spk_0:   16:13
My childhood was one that was really modest and really poor. So I didn't really have toys other than those that were discarded from others or create things and make up games. And, uh, you know, t a a book of matches and turn that into a game of kicking field goals and rolling up socks and throwing them into the lamp shade for basketball things that, um, that I was forced to be creative because it was so poor, I think kind of allowed me to tap into creativity. But we all have it, you know? You just have to tap into it. The amazing thing is, is you think it would be logical for people spend time thinking, but we don't. We're oftentimes playing defense. We don't set way, handle things as they come in, and that's fun. We have to do that. But are we setting time aside to to think, to be proactive, to make situations better, to be creative and these solutions are are very, very important. We have this ability, but we don't really kind of focus on and tap into it. And by doing so, the results are just amazing. You know, several things that you mentioned that you when I was early on in my mortgage career, people were not sending business by away very easily. So I had to be creative. And I thought that, you know, all I really need is a captive. What? I just need people to listen to me. And anybody was paying money to have to listen to me, right? So whether it was the person pizzeria or my hair cutter or my accountant or anybody I was giving money to, I had a chance two very least briefly explain what I d'oh and how I could potentially help them heal and narrow it down to 30 or 60 seconds. You can't give a whole district ation, but if they're they're taking my money for a service that providing me at least have to listen to that and all these businesses. They had lists of customers and I thought that these were gold mines for me, that if I can help them and do something special for their list of customers that they could become referral sources other than the more typical referral sources that people in the mortgage industry would have, such as past clients, or add no past clients and real estate agents who were hesitant to give someone who was less experienced and youthful of the important task of handling a transaction. That would mean their commission for the month or something like that. And in addition to that, there was another obstacle there that they had previous relationships. So to break those barriers was difficult. Now, while I work to do that and eventually became very successful at that and built huge database of real estate agents and referral sources in the interim, I had to earn income at Tau provide for my Children, had to pay my bills, and I wanted Thio have a high trajectory of success. So I went around and talked to people who normally wouldn't. I wouldn't have knocked on people's doors at night and see if they wanted to refinance and yes, while driving on the roads of New Jersey, which had many little baskets that you throw quarter and if you have exact change or you could go to a toll collector and you give him, say, a dollar and they give you the 75 cents, why had the quarter? But rather than put it in the basket, I didn't get a chance to talk to anybody. I would go to the toll collector hand on my card and asked if I could help them save money or create wealth for themselves. And that's the only time I had. And, you know, it seemed like it was pretty tedious to do that each and every time with zero results until Steve Horton called me and I did not just his mortgage, but 17 other toll collectors. And, uh, it was it was really amazing was very eye opening, But there's many, many opportunities that are out there. We just need Thio to see no removing points of friction. And I tried to do this with things like the no closing costs mortgage in the mortgage business. I had a business where medical imaging companies and the medical imaging companies that I own, I wanted to do things differently. So rather than what occurs, having forbid if you have to go for a scan, and I just went for an M R. I on my knee and I had to wait a couple of days to get results that would come in on this. And you have anxiety sometimes, especially. It's important what? So what I was able to do in my centers is I was able to have a radiologist right there. So by the time you got dressed, you able to either get really good news or a plan to address what the issue was. But you didn't have anxiety. When I had rock of Ages open on Broadway, it was prohibited for people to have an alcoholic beverage in the seat and watch people come into the theater, wait online. The show would be about to start. That just paid 18 bucks for a drink. They're nicely dressed, and now you can't bring you drink to the sea. And if you want to watch people have guzzled this strange why? Why did they have? Why can't we make this experience better? This is a point of friction, so I have to go to the theater owners and it took a lot, and I'm very persistent, too you know, they said, No, we don't do that. Well, that's not a good answer for me. Why? How can we make this better? How can we re assure you one of the things that we can do to help you? And I was the first show in the history of Broadway to allow drinking in your seats, and now they all do it? Yeah, these are things that we do in the When it came to seeing a point of friction in the mortgage industry, where people were getting rates that changed intraday and their customers were suffering, they were suffering. So why can't we change that? What can we create? A system that alerts thes mortgage professionals to this? And we do this every day at NBS nightly, there's you know, how many that we d'oh, no product that we have, Meghan, that you're very close to social studio. Everyone's creative video. They don't know how to do it. Well, let's help them. Let's turn their computer into a teleprompter and do it so it's this constant

spk_1:   22:01
believe in points of friction. I love that. I think that that's an important thing, that all of the listeners here should be asking themselves. Now I have a question. When you started originating at what point? Like how long after you started originating? Would you call yourself successful because you've brought in how many billions?

spk_0:   22:24
2.1 billion during my mortgage career? Just me, just one assistant with me and that was that was pretty, pretty good number. I mean, there were people today that may have exceeded that. There's several people have exceeded that, of course, but that's still a pretty good number for for a career of originating loans. And, you know, I averaged over $100 million a year. This is with what amounts for a lot less because real estate values were allowed lower.

spk_1:   22:48
Now did it start off that way? Like, did you start jumping out the gun? Or did it

spk_0:   22:52
tell it didn't start off Theo crazy? But just just to put it in perspective for you, the jumbo limit today 510,000 roughly well, when I was originating loans, it was 133,000 just to job 233,000. So that just gives you a perspective of where loan amounts were when I was riding along today Ah, $300,000 might seem small. When I was doing a lot of 300,000 that was a big jumbo loan that you were doing. Okay, so talk about $2.1 billion. Let's remember, on a relative basis, that would probably be four billion or $5 billion by today's standards of loan amounts that you would do. So yeah, I'm very proud of those numbers. And a couple of years. Mortgage Originator magazine in Broker magazine named me the top originator in the country, which is really big honor amongst my peers. So it didn't all start out where everybody said, Here, do my mortgage. It took a tremendous amount of knowledge and persistence and finding other avenues like we had discussed. We're going out knocking on people's doors and my count, maybe $33 million referrals in one year. My hair color was good for who? You know, I'm still dear friends with two transactions a month because everybody that sat in his chair, they start talking. What's a very common question? It's not a coincidence, that's everything. So tell me what's new? People say that So tell me, how you doing? What's new, right? How you doing? What's new? What people say they're each other every time. And if what's new happened to be on buying a home? Well, he would have my card. Oh, and that was good for two transactions a month. My dentist would give me trends. Everybody who I paid money to became a potential referral source for me. So this was a different way of looking at things. And then once I established customer relationships, I tried to go deep. Rondo's so what I tried to do. Meghan was making experience with that customer That was much deeper than just the transaction. I would try to find ways to use the mortgage to maximize wealth creation so that this mortgage would wind up helping them pay for their kids college. Because I would ask him those questions. I would say, Do you have enough money for your kid's college? So we don't nothing. We know we have to. Well, let's structure this mortgage us to how we're going to do that. How about your retirement would be good if you were able to pay your home off earlier, so you don't not only have no more payments to make, but I have equity in your home that you could draw upon Andy's

spk_1:   25:19
leaving those points of friction.

spk_0:   25:21
Yes, these things transcended beyond. If my rate were in eighth higher Ville, my fees were $400 more. It didn't matter if I just put your kids through college, could put your kid through college or it's $400 body. Who cares? At that point, they were almost embarrassed to negotiate because I would impact their life. And a big breakthrough came for me when I stopped looking at a mortgage one at a time, and I started viewing the transaction that I was doing today in conjunction with next mortgage, we need to take so people look at a mortgage and this outs of 30 more. It's very funny, but nobody keeps the mortgage for 30 years. What we have to think about is either the time you move or the opportunity to have a different mortgage, even if you're in the same home by refinancing. So how long do we think the life span of this would be and get the most cost saving way that fits that lifespan of that mortgage, Whether it be a different type of mortgage insurance or not paying closing costs, we're not paying point. We have to think about this two at a time. So there are things like life events. So are you thinking about getting married? Are you maybe gonna get divorced or you gonna have kids? We're gonna be an empty nester. Is your income going up to expect your income to go? There's so many changes in life. I mean, anybody would look at their life three years ago to wear this. Today it's different. Your life will be different three years from now. So trying to at least talk about these things again transcends the conversation, removes the points of friction and tries to at least contemplate How could you do the most important financial transaction that somebody's gonna do in their life and not find out what their life plans are not. Find out what they're thinking now and nobody does it. It's so silly, But people are afraid to go deep and have those transactions. But it's that very thing of going deep with people and asking him the things that people don't ask them. that bonds you to that allows them to have an experience. So

spk_1:   27:16
that business coming back, Yeah,

spk_0:   27:18
that's what happened to Megan, is that you We wind up being able to look at those life experiences. And then I use our expertise to show how economic changes may occur the way we think interest rates, Bingo and why? So why is that a better time to look at a more longer term situation today for your loan? Or maybe we think that there's a possibility that rates will decline. So if you think there's gonna be a recession over the next couple years, rates will decline precipitously. So you probably aren't gonna have alone today that you're going to have for a very long period time if there's going to recession. So it's again looking at those things to a top.

spk_1:   27:55
Yeah, and it's about being that forever learner, too, so that you're up to date so that you can have those conversations. Now I wanna get out of this talk and I want to move into what made you decide to stop originating.

spk_0:   28:10
So I had an idea for removing point Fraction had an idea to to take something in the mortgage industry. That was a persistent problem. People didn't understand the financial markets and people were getting burnt by interest rates changing, so atypical originator would speak with the customer. They would discuss an interest rate and then it would say, Okay, that's great. By the time the originator went back to their office to now, go ahead and lock that interest rate that was promised to the customer. The market, unbeknownst to them, was moving. And if it moved adversely. Aim, If you told your customary on just to pick a number 5% about time you got to your office. Five and an eighth or five and 1/4 that originated had one of three choices. Choice number one. I call the customer that I just left with a good feeling with you all love and kisses and we're all you know, happy and you're You're great. You're wonderful. You're this. You're that Oh, I know you wanted 5%. I know. I told you 5%. I know I promised your 5% but now it's five and an eighth. What does that do to the trust and to the relationship? It's awful. Choice number two Tell my company. Hey, I know it's five. Innate I told this person 5% what we have to eat it and give 5%. So it's gonna come out of my pocket or the company's pocket. And that sucks. Okay, because we don't work for free choice number three. And unfortunately, lot of originators do. This is like a deer in the headlights. They don't know what to do, so they do nothing and they freeze. They don't tell the customer they don't tell the company, and they pray. But the market comes back and gives them an opportunity to bail them out. But sometimes it didn't do that. So I said, Why do we have to put people through this torture? Why don't I just tell you that rates are about to change before they do so you can look like a hero and lock up your pipeline and protect him, And that company started off very slowly. I started out in 2001. This was a time with the mortgage industry really started to take off. I just got out of the mortgage business of originating loans, and I'm watching all my friends make all this free money here, and I'm like, What did I? D'oh? But I stayed with it. I held to my beliefs that we needed to do this and that company MMG became an enormous success and became quite ubiquitous within the mortgage industry. And then I felt that the market was changing in 2006. Hard investment banker and Consummated in a bidding war, a cell in 2007 literally six weeks before the financial crisis hit on the

spk_1:   30:40
bats. That's not so. You've been so successful at building companies and selling them and repeating that process throughout your career. I want to take on a little bit more personal angle here and ask you a question. You know, Did your definition of success change from maybe what it was when you were 26 to where it is now?

spk_0:   31:07
It always changes. Of course.

spk_1:   31:09
What's your definition of success?

spk_0:   31:11
So success was much more achievement oriented. Um, initially, because remember, I grew up really poor, so achievement does a couple of things and build your confidence and confidence is really critical. You need confidence. You know, we don't be cocky, but there's something very attractive and magnetic about someone who's confident, and that's important for everything. Some point relationships support for business, so confidence is key, and you gain confidence by trying to be your best self and always learning and always performing at a peak level. So confidence for me started to come with achieving levels of success that were measured by it work oriented things. And the thing about that is that you can have that achievement success well, but it's less wonderful. Uh, if you don't have fulfillment, it's part of it. What are you doing to make that special? Are you lifting others? Are you doing good in the world? And over time there's much more of an emphasis for me on the fulfillment portion? Uh, no. The financial part is great. The accolades air great, the doing things, you know, like having a show that has become a global brand. And being very responsible for that feels great. But it's much more important when you see how happy people walk out of the theater and how their spirits are lifted. And remember, we brought rock of ages out during the financial crisis, and people would come back over and over because they needed that show. When I speak to audiences in, people cry and people are inspired and people you feel that it's life changing when I would talk to customers and I would help them actually literally change their life for the better. That was much more important than it was much more important than the accolades. So So my definition of success changed over the years and has evolved as I've grown personally, too much more of uplifting others and receiving a lot more satisfaction from that.

spk_1:   33:27
Is there a time period? And I'm just curious If maybe there's a time period that sticks out where maybe you achieved something and it didn't feel a CZ good as you thought it would.

spk_0:   33:38
Well, people in commission sales can relate to starting at zero at the beginning of each month. Once again, you could have a wonderful month. You could have a wonderful year, but then you started zero on, and there's an empty feeling there on dhe. You know, even if you do get financial success or accomplish something, it's great. But the effects don't last as long as you'd like them, too. So you know you can kind of constantly trying to fill that void. But there's something really special and longer lasting with the inner satisfaction that you get from having someone else that you've mentor had become successful or having a customer who you've you've helped her or audiences that there is something so much more fulfilling their that's much longer lasting. I'm not saying that the financial successes and the achievements of high performance aren't important. What I'm saying is, is that you need both. You need. You need both. It can't just be about everybody else. It's nice, but you're gonna probably not. Feels good about that either. So, yes, you want to perform at a peak level. Yes, you won't achieve level success. Yes, you want to make lots of money. It's nothing wrong with that. Take it from somebody who's very, very poor growing up. I understand how how important it is, But it's also lifting others and making a difference in their life. Doing good in the world, feeling like what you're doing has meaning and purpose and that you're making things better. That's really important to me, and I think it's really important to everyone. If they tap into that,

spk_1:   35:25
yeah, I think that is a really valuable lesson. So after MMG, what was next?

spk_0:   35:34
So I sold them Injun and, uh, you know, I stayed there for a while. Um, but different philosophy philosophy is pretty simple. As you know, I spoke. My customers exploit My employees have never had any turnover. In any business that I've had. I've had many have literally been self employed since h 21. And so I've employed many, many, many, many people in every company has been the same. It's a very high well, you know, first, and it's happy. It's, you know, people get along and nobody leaves. Um, so it's it's I prided myself on that and our customers. It's the same thing. Spoil my customers. Customers always get more than what they had negotiated or bargain, and I give without being asked to give. And that's really key Is that if you nothing in this world, people do not feel very appreciated. So if you can show your appreciation without somebody asking, there is a very different environment that exists. It's much more. Boy, this person has buybacks. Person cares about me, and there are gonna be turbulent times. But you're able to ride through them a lot better if you have that trust. And if you have that feeling that you know this person cares about me and they have my back, and no matter what happens, push comes to shove. This person's gonna be there for me, and I've been able to establish those relationships. Now, when we sold the company, uh, it was their company. They bought it, but their attitude was extremely cutthroat. What can we get out of the employees? How what's the least we could pay them and get the most out of them was completely contrary with my belief system, and it was the same with the customers. It's How can we continue to up sell them? How can we continue get more dollars out of them? And how can we save money by giving them less? That was in complete conflict with everything about the way I'm wired. So I was not able to stay there and then for the 1st 2 years of a non compete. So for the first time, I am in a position where I could kind of done anything I wanted to dio. Yeah, I because I've been on TV so much. You did some acting. I got involved with rock of ages. I opened up medical imaging companies. I did some things that were really kind of fun. I continue to speak, and it was It was great. It was great. Thio kind of expand my arrives and since for actually looked into being a sports agent. You know, uh, the current?

spk_1:   37:58

spk_0:   37:59
the current general manager of the Mets, Brody Van wagon. And he was a an agent for CIA. And and you know that I know a lot of the athletes and whatnot. It kind of got introduced to a lot of a miss and became friends with musicians and athletes and people in film from my experiences there, plus from rock of ages, which was like the hot show on Broadway everybody wanted to go to. So I fostered those friendships. And Brody was really nice. He was one of top guys. C a A. Yeah, he brought me in, and he really taught me the whole business of being a sports agent, and it just it was it was interesting and intriguing, but I didn't want to pursue that. And, uh, and And now, of course, we're still good friends. So I was able to do a lot of interesting things during that time period. And then people said, You come back into what you did for mortgage market guide and I did.

spk_1:   38:49
On NBS Highway was born,

spk_0:   38:51
yes, highway was born. So you know, as you know, I always like to start new ventures. And when I started NBS highway, the name NBS, mortgage backed security. We were very focused on doing a lot of say things that did a mortgage market guy which was focusing on, you know, helping you understand rating Barb, the economy, being an expert there and and alerting you won re changing. This was like the real focus there. And we started off okay and we started to grow. But then we plateau it and we really weren't growing. And I was like, What? The pack in what? What's wrong with me? No matter how much success you achieve, confidence and confidence is very fleeting. And I'm like, Did I lose it? You know what? What's wrong with me? It did things past me. But these

spk_1:   39:34
are the things you question yourself,

spk_0:   39:35
right? And you've got all these whatever. Business of it's been successful ever since I was a kid. And now here I am. I go through a plateau, period, and I'm like, wondering, you know what the heck is wrong with me and it's just a

spk_1:   39:48
marketing. What'd you find out? What changed?

spk_0:   39:52
What changed was that I was looking at the two narrowly I needed to do was set myself apart again. And And dudes, everything I've been telling you relieved points of friction. Yeah, well, in experience give people what they don't even know they need. Now show them what they what they need. So what I saw was an opportunity to put in a really good format, showing people the opportunity in purchasing a home, the opportunity in real estate and doing it in a way nobody else had thought of doing before. And then all the copycats who had copied me what I did with them, mg and even my old company. Mm. Gee, there were plenty of competitors. They're so instead of fighting in a competitive way there, I just set myself apart and did something nobody else was doing. And I started to really flourish and take off And as you know, we continuously just we add, we add we hadn't We're starting anew certification and a new venture here, which is gonna be a great initiative in 2020 and doing something that again nobody else is doing nobody else seeing. And where we feel that that there is a need that people don't even know they need yet

spk_1:   41:04
not need us so feeling the need that they don't even know. That's kind of the theme I feel like of this episode. I, uh I wanted to dive in a little bit deeper when you started to talk about, you know, when the company was plateau going and your confidence kind of started to dip down. And it reminded me of all these times that, you know, I've shifted from the bodybuilding world into the mortgage space because of you. When I remember during that time period, I had a lack of confidence one because I was new in the space, but too, because I felt like I was losing a sense of my identity. And you've shifted throughout all these different aspects in the looking hindsight. Now they've all kind of built on top of each other. But I'm just curious, you know, aside from that one time where the company was kind of plot towing as you were shifting from selling stereos to being a loan originator to launching a different company, was there ever time periods where you kind of suffered from a loss of identity?

spk_0:   42:12
Every one of them, uh, you you're entering into uncharted waters. You're especially with some of the things I've done. I've done things that were creations, right? You know, the rich market guy that things at NBS Highway that we d'oh, the putting, a radiologist and all the things that this was very different. So this is where you have to believe in yourself. You have to have conviction and belief. But you also have to know when your conviction and belief perhaps was incorrect. You know, when I first started NBS Highway, my conviction and belief is I could do kind of same thing I was doing at mortgage market guide. And then when I saw that I was going to stay married to that idea, that idea was flawed. Now we do a great job with interest rates, but it's admitting to yourself when your foot on. That doesn't mean being a flake in giving up the second year. Resistance gotta plow through. But if you're continuously trying to do this and you can see the handwriting on the wall, if you can recognize your own flaws and recognize where you could be mistaken, that that's a pretty big step, because lots of us don't want to admit that. So it's being able to admit where maybe maybe what I thought was the right way maybe isn't the right way and being able to correctly shift. I'm not saying completely the part, but to adjust, to adapt and to work very, very hard to find your way. So, as we said, as he said to myself, You know, it's Dodd. Frank changed the laws, and and there's much more competition by Dodd Frank changing laws. What this meant was that where I would save the originator money on this rate lock and saving headache and aggravation, and they could pocket the difference based upon my advice. The laws of Dodd frank me that you couldn't pocket get to pass it on to the customers, so it's still great, but it was less valuable, less meaningful. Now with all the competitors and copycats that came in to try and capitalize on my idea. It became much more difficult. And that's where I had to say, I've got to adjust here So where can I go with this? And it took a lot of deep thought, and this is we talked about before time to think I would set times to think how many of us really do that. So Kevin CenterPoint with myself, just us and we're going to do here is I am going to think, what are the best ways to improve or adapt? And what I discovered was I thought about this and it just came to me that it would people buy a home. A real estate agent sells features of the home here. Here we go. Here's the kitchen. Oh, great. Wow. That's why the stove is there. I mean, this is so silly, but that's how our realtor sells a home and mortgage professionals what they sell his rate or products or qualifying for the loan. But no one was selling the financial opportunity in buying a home, and I thought about that. You know, when people look for a home It's a visual process. They shop with their eyes and then when they go to see the home, if they see it, they like it. They become emotionally attached with their heart, but they make the decision to buy financially with their wilder the pocketbook. And isn't it crazy? Isn't it interesting that no one is doing that? The most effective way to sell the way people by and nobody is doing that? And that's when we shifted gears and that's when I said We need to do is we need to amass data huge amounts of data and make it in a very friendly, beautiful, easy to use format that can be share a bowl, to show people the opportunity and by home. And that's what things just changed completely for M V. A salary.

spk_1:   45:57
Yeah, it's evolved so much, it's I feel very blessed to be able to be a part of it. Very blessed. Well, thank you for taking time today to be on the podcast with us and share your insights Very a lot of valuable information that you've given us today, and I just want to ask you one more question for our listeners. You know a lot of people listening right now, they're going through their own struggles. Is there any tips or words of wisdom that you want to leave with these individuals to help them break through?

spk_0:   46:32
You know, we're all go through struggles. It doesn't change, you're going to go through more struggles, and you're going to go through difficult times. And now it's been told to me many years ago that either here in the middle of a tough time or just getting out of a tough time where we're headed for a tough time. So we're gonna have to confront these challenges, and what you have to really do is just draw upon your past. Experience is a strength to get through them, and you have to really have a belief. You have to have a firm belief that the difficulty that you're going through, whether it's a relationship or a job change is going to, is going to bring about something better. Not because it brings about something better just on its own magically, but because you're going to overcome the challenge. And you're gonna make something better out of it that you're strong enough to make something better out of it now, many times in life. Is it happened to you where, you know, maybe you lost a position at at work and you felt heartbroken and awful and sick over it. But then what happened was that there was an opportunity that you seize that's much better. And then you look back and said, Oh, my gosh, I know it was miserable to go through that, but I am in such a better place here. This happened in relationships, too, right? Sometimes you know, we're heartbroken to lose a relationship. But when you discover something that comes around, that's better, and that puts you in a happier place. So when you go through struggle, I think what you really want to dio is you wanna have a firm belief that you can control your death scene to make it better, and that if you look back in your past, you'll see that you've been able to do that as well.

spk_1:   48:13
Wise, wise words Thank you for being on the podcast and for anyone listening. If you want to learn more about Barry, he is actually coming out with a book called Money in the Streets. We've talked a lot about finding and creating and seizing opportunities. And when is that gonna be coming out? Do you know yet?

spk_0:   48:33
So the manuscript is old done and money in the streets. We want to make a big release with a literary agent and a big publisher, and we're hoping to put that together sometime in the second half of 2020. And it is a book about finding opportunities. Your money in the streets is, uh, it's something that's not just about business. It's really about inspiring us and understanding what what drives us and seizing opportunity. So in order to seize an opportunity, first have to identify it. The money in the streets name comes from when I was when I was a child and my my parents, who were immigrants, would hear stories about the United States and America is such a rich country. There's money in the streets where you have to do is pick it up. And they would. I'm first generation born in the U. S. And as a young boy, I was very poor, and my parents would tell me how silly it wasthe, you know, to believe that there was actual money in the streets, and any any person who's immigrated to the U. S knows this story, and so you know, they would kind of laugh about it. But it's also sad until I started to understand how things work in the business world and relationships. And, you know, I started to see opportunities, whether it was stereos or mortgages. Nous sat down with my mom and ah and said, Mom, you know what? It's true. There really is money in the streets. There's opportunity everywhere. You just have to know howto how to first identify it. And then and then you could just pick the money up off the streets. So So that's what this book is about. It's about first identifying opportunities. How to do that. How did take your abilities and be able to focus on seeing opportunities and think through them and the ways to reverse engineer things and then how to follow through and then gain those opportunities whether they be relationship visor business wise.

spk_1:   50:26
Yeah, I've read the manuscript, you guys, and I'm tearing up right now. Just hearing very talk about it's such a wonderful book. If you guys want to stay up to date with Barry Habib or NBS Highway, you confined us the NBS highway dot com. Be sure to follow Berry on social media platforms. He's the most active on Facebook. You'll find him very B, and we'll keep you posted on the books as well. Thank you, very you.