{"version":"1.0.0","segments":[{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3.63,"endTime":6.18,"body":"Welcome to the upper"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3.63,"endTime":6.18,"body":"hand podcast where Chuck and"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":6.18,"endTime":7.53,"body":"Chris talk Hand Surgery."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":7.89,"endTime":10.47,"body":"We are two hand surgeons at"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":7.89,"endTime":10.47,"body":"Washington University in St."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":10.47,"endTime":13.44,"body":"Louis here to talk about all"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":10.47,"endTime":13.44,"body":"things hand surgery related from"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":13.44,"endTime":14.64,"body":"technical to personal."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":15.33,"endTime":18.18,"body":"Please subscribe, wherever you"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":15.33,"endTime":18.18,"body":"get your podcasts."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":18.93,"endTime":21.63,"body":"And thank you in advance for"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":18.93,"endTime":21.63,"body":"leaving a review and leaving a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":21.63,"endTime":23.55,"body":"rating wherever you get your"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":21.63,"endTime":23.55,"body":"podcasts."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":23.64,"endTime":24.57,"body":"Oh, hey, Chris."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":25.17,"endTime":26.34,"body":"Hey, Chuck, how are you?"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":26.67,"endTime":28.65,"body":"I am fantastic. How are you?"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":29.31,"endTime":33.12,"body":"I'm great. I'm great. I'm very"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":29.31,"endTime":33.12,"body":"excited. We had a great chat"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":33.12,"endTime":36.18,"body":"last week with farsh, you know,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":33.12,"endTime":36.18,"body":"kind of leads us into our topic."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":36.18,"endTime":40.74,"body":"Today, we're going to do one of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":36.18,"endTime":40.74,"body":"our HBR leadership articles. But"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":40.74,"endTime":43.35,"body":"I did have an interesting case I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":40.74,"endTime":43.35,"body":"wanted to share with you just"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":43.35,"endTime":44.88,"body":"get your thoughts on a concept."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":45.69,"endTime":47.25,"body":"I love I love it. I love it."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":48.06,"endTime":52.62,"body":"What's been your success? Or"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":48.06,"endTime":52.62,"body":"what's been your approach and"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":52.62,"endTime":59.28,"body":"success to stabilizing the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":52.62,"endTime":59.28,"body":"unstable, etc. So extensor"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":59.28,"endTime":63.48,"body":"tendon, say at the level of zone"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":59.28,"endTime":63.48,"body":"five, so right over the MP joint"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":63.48,"endTime":67.08,"body":"sagittal band region, what's"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":63.48,"endTime":67.08,"body":"your go to for those patients?"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":68.37,"endTime":71.85,"body":"I think it's important that we I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":68.37,"endTime":71.85,"body":"think I know where you're going"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":71.85,"endTime":74.64,"body":"with this case, but narrow it"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":71.85,"endTime":74.64,"body":"and make sure we're very clear."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":74.64,"endTime":79.95,"body":"So you know, there are patients"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":74.64,"endTime":79.95,"body":"with multiple unstable extensor"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":79.95,"endTime":82.98,"body":"tendons. And so we're not really"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":79.95,"endTime":82.98,"body":"I don't think we're here to talk"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":82.98,"endTime":87.63,"body":"about those. I will say whatever"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":82.98,"endTime":87.63,"body":"I think about so and then in"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":87.63,"endTime":89.19,"body":"a non non rheumatoid count."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":89.0,"endTime":94.64,"body":"Yes, yes. So an acute,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":89.0,"endTime":94.64,"body":"traumatic, unstable extensor"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":94.64,"endTime":98.9,"body":"tendon. And I always feel the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":94.64,"endTime":98.9,"body":"need to say, when you see one of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":98.9,"endTime":102.59,"body":"these, it's really helpful"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":98.9,"endTime":102.59,"body":"conceptually, and they're not"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":102.59,"endTime":104.69,"body":"all that common, although I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":102.59,"endTime":104.69,"body":"think you and I see them"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":104.72,"endTime":107.72,"body":"intermittently. And it isn't the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":104.72,"endTime":107.72,"body":"differential for trigger finger."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":107.75,"endTime":111.35,"body":"And when you see an impressive"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":107.75,"endTime":111.35,"body":"one, and you can see why it's in"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":111.35,"endTime":115.04,"body":"the differential for trigger. So"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":111.35,"endTime":115.04,"body":"I liked the diagnosis. I like"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":115.04,"endTime":119.42,"body":"treating it. I don't want to go"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":115.04,"endTime":119.42,"body":"down on too much of a monologue."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":119.42,"endTime":123.14,"body":"But I guess first I would say,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":119.42,"endTime":123.14,"body":"if it's truly acute, those"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":123.14,"endTime":127.58,"body":"patients are given a trial of a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":123.14,"endTime":127.58,"body":"splint for six weeks with the MP"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":127.58,"endTime":130.52,"body":"joining extension, before I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":127.58,"endTime":130.52,"body":"think about surgery"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":132.25,"endTime":137.08,"body":"and with the MP join extension,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":132.25,"endTime":137.08,"body":"so is that purely just you're"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":137.08,"endTime":141.79,"body":"leaving the PIP free?Are you"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":137.08,"endTime":141.79,"body":"doing anything to stabilize it"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":141.79,"endTime":145.21,"body":"to the adjacent finger, and what"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":141.79,"endTime":145.21,"body":"kind of activity precautions"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":145.21,"endTime":145.81,"body":"that you give them?"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":146.56,"endTime":151.33,"body":"So for me, it's so funny the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":146.56,"endTime":151.33,"body":"things that we all remember, but"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":151.33,"endTime":154.24,"body":"I will never forget Peter stern"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":151.33,"endTime":154.24,"body":"and fellowship. And that's many"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":154.24,"endTime":158.23,"body":"years ago to talk about George"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":154.24,"endTime":158.23,"body":"Kettlecamp's article on this,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":158.23,"endTime":161.86,"body":"which is an old, old, old jbjs"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":158.23,"endTime":161.86,"body":"article. And it's, it's, you"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":161.86,"endTime":165.49,"body":"know, these injuries are almost"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":161.86,"endTime":165.49,"body":"always the radial sagittal band"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":165.52,"endTime":168.64,"body":"of the middle finger. And the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":165.52,"endTime":168.64,"body":"tenants of let's say its own"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":168.64,"endTime":172.66,"body":"early. And more recently, we've"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":168.64,"endTime":172.66,"body":"come to understand that there"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":172.66,"endTime":175.12,"body":"are kind of two different splits"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":172.66,"endTime":175.12,"body":"that work in my mind. There are"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":175.12,"endTime":179.86,"body":"hand based splints, they extend"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":175.12,"endTime":179.86,"body":"the MP joint, they can truly be"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":179.86,"endTime":183.61,"body":"a P one blocker, where you"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":179.86,"endTime":183.61,"body":"simply have to have the proximal"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":183.61,"endTime":187.36,"body":"phalanx extended of that middle"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":183.61,"endTime":187.36,"body":"finger and I leave the IP joints"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":187.36,"endTime":190.84,"body":"free. Or it can be one of the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":187.36,"endTime":190.84,"body":"splints that kind of works"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":190.84,"endTime":195.37,"body":"around the middle finger by"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":190.84,"endTime":195.37,"body":"basically keeping the middle"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":195.37,"endTime":199.75,"body":"finger up and keeping the index"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":195.37,"endTime":199.75,"body":"and ring finger slightly flexed."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":200.71,"endTime":203.29,"body":"But I let them do what they want"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":200.71,"endTime":203.29,"body":"to do, as long as that MP join"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":203.29,"endTime":204.1,"body":"stays extended."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":205.02,"endTime":207.75,"body":"That so for those of you that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":205.02,"endTime":207.75,"body":"were not watching on YouTube,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":207.75,"endTime":211.5,"body":"Chuck was demonstrating a yoke"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":207.75,"endTime":211.5,"body":"type splint in the second one."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":212.55,"endTime":217.38,"body":"Ya know, I think a lot of it"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":212.55,"endTime":217.38,"body":"depends on for me, the patient's"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":217.38,"endTime":219.69,"body":"preferences as well as the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":217.38,"endTime":219.69,"body":"therapists comfort level with,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":219.72,"endTime":222.06,"body":"you know, what the patient's"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":219.72,"endTime":222.06,"body":"actually going to wear and use?"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":223.29,"endTime":225.21,"body":"And how long do you have them"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":223.29,"endTime":225.21,"body":"wear that for an acute"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":225.21,"endTime":225.87,"body":"situation."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":226.26,"endTime":229.83,"body":"So it's a full six weeks trial"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":226.26,"endTime":229.83,"body":"for me which, you know, it's not"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":229.86,"endTime":232.53,"body":"it's not the hardest one to wear"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":229.86,"endTime":232.53,"body":"in the world. But it's"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":232.53,"endTime":236.73,"body":"definitely not the easiest, it's"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":232.53,"endTime":236.73,"body":"really inconvenient. I was"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":236.73,"endTime":240.3,"body":"exclusively using the yoke"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":236.73,"endTime":240.3,"body":"splints, I think the P1 blocking"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":240.3,"endTime":244.35,"body":"splint might be a little easier"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":240.3,"endTime":244.35,"body":"to wear. But as we've discussed"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":244.38,"endTime":248.19,"body":"many, many times, I trust our"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":244.38,"endTime":248.19,"body":"therapists implicitly and I give"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":248.19,"endTime":250.23,"body":"them the option of talking to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":248.19,"endTime":250.23,"body":"the patient and try to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":250.23,"endTime":252.3,"body":"understand what might work best"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":250.23,"endTime":252.3,"body":"for each patient."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":253.77,"endTime":256.92,"body":"And Macey actually made me one"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":253.77,"endTime":256.92,"body":"when we were at the beginning of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":256.92,"endTime":258.72,"body":"the academic year, and we were"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":256.92,"endTime":258.72,"body":"are probably going to do it"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":258.72,"endTime":263.01,"body":"again, pretty soon, is we did a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":258.72,"endTime":263.01,"body":"session where she kind of walked"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":263.01,"endTime":265.38,"body":"us through all the splints and"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":263.01,"endTime":265.38,"body":"how they make them and"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":265.38,"endTime":268.14,"body":"everything and the common ones."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":265.38,"endTime":268.14,"body":"And she put a yoke on me and it"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":268.14,"endTime":269.55,"body":"was not comfortable to tell you"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":268.14,"endTime":269.55,"body":"that."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":270.0,"endTime":272.82,"body":"Yeah, well and given my age,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":270.0,"endTime":272.82,"body":"Chris, you know that I've"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":272.82,"endTime":275.79,"body":"experienced a lot of the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":272.82,"endTime":275.79,"body":"conditions that I talked about."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":275.79,"endTime":279.63,"body":"But so I learned something about"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":275.79,"endTime":279.63,"body":"myself, which is that when I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":279.66,"endTime":283.26,"body":"like get out of the shower or"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":279.66,"endTime":283.26,"body":"wash my hands, I flick my"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":283.26,"endTime":287.22,"body":"fingers and I think I had a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":283.26,"endTime":287.22,"body":"partial sagittal band injury and"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":287.22,"endTime":291.96,"body":"I wore a splint I didn't that it"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":287.22,"endTime":291.96,"body":"was pain rather than true"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":291.96,"endTime":294.72,"body":"instability. So I think it was a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":291.96,"endTime":294.72,"body":"partial injury. The sagittal"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":294.72,"endTime":297.78,"body":"band , I did wear a splint. For"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":294.72,"endTime":297.78,"body":"a couple of weeks that pain went"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":297.78,"endTime":302.01,"body":"away and I stopped complaining"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":297.78,"endTime":302.01,"body":"loudly to everyone, and it was a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":302.01,"endTime":303.21,"body":"hard splint to wear."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":303.99,"endTime":308.1,"body":"So wait, you injured yourself?"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":303.99,"endTime":308.1,"body":"Washing your hands"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":311.13,"endTime":314.16,"body":"flicking the water off my hands"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":311.13,"endTime":314.16,"body":"after I had washed them."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":315.69,"endTime":319.53,"body":"Oh, I'm just gonna leave that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":315.69,"endTime":319.53,"body":"one alone. So say say the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":319.53,"endTime":323.4,"body":"patient comes to you a little"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":319.53,"endTime":323.4,"body":"bit delayed? And it isn't an"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":323.4,"endTime":326.58,"body":"acute injury anymore. And but"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":323.4,"endTime":326.58,"body":"they still have the tendons"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":326.58,"endTime":329.58,"body":"subluxation. How are you"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":326.58,"endTime":329.58,"body":"thinking about that patient say"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":329.58,"endTime":333.45,"body":"you do put them through the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":329.58,"endTime":333.45,"body":"trial of splinting. But it gets"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":333.45,"endTime":335.91,"body":"to the point where surgically"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":333.45,"endTime":335.91,"body":"you feel like something should"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":335.91,"endTime":338.67,"body":"be done? Are the patients"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":335.91,"endTime":338.67,"body":"insisting on something should be"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":338.67,"endTime":340.02,"body":"done? How do you approach that?"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":340.17,"endTime":343.2,"body":"Well, I think it's a completely"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":340.17,"endTime":343.2,"body":"reasonable thing to do. It's"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":343.2,"endTime":346.26,"body":"still requires that period of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":343.2,"endTime":346.26,"body":"immobilization, which is part of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":346.26,"endTime":349.5,"body":"the the difficulty of the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":346.26,"endTime":349.5,"body":"conversation with a quote, trial"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":349.5,"endTime":351.9,"body":"of non operative care, because"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":349.5,"endTime":351.9,"body":"if you mobilize them for six"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":351.9,"endTime":355.86,"body":"weeks, and they fail, and then"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":351.9,"endTime":355.86,"body":"you do the surgery, you mobilize"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":355.86,"endTime":359.31,"body":"them again, it's really painful."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":355.86,"endTime":359.31,"body":"So that's a long, it's a long"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":359.31,"endTime":362.64,"body":"process, right? And so it's I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":359.31,"endTime":362.64,"body":"don't want to, I'm certainly not"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":362.64,"endTime":365.25,"body":"advocating being super"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":362.64,"endTime":365.25,"body":"aggressive and going immediately"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":365.25,"endTime":368.34,"body":"to surgery because it's not"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":365.25,"endTime":368.34,"body":"necessary. And non awkward care"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":368.34,"endTime":371.25,"body":"works, especially in the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":368.34,"endTime":371.25,"body":"otherwise healthy patient with"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":371.25,"endTime":374.7,"body":"an isolated acute care. But the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":371.25,"endTime":374.7,"body":"patient with a chronic tear, I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":374.7,"endTime":377.58,"body":"think surgery is very"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":374.7,"endTime":377.58,"body":"reasonable. And it's really"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":377.58,"endTime":381.18,"body":"about, it was about a couple of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":377.58,"endTime":381.18,"body":"things. There's one trying to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":381.18,"endTime":386.07,"body":"rebalance, get a good repair of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":381.18,"endTime":386.07,"body":"the sagittal band when possible,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":386.34,"endTime":390.57,"body":"and take away any forces that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":386.34,"endTime":390.57,"body":"are fighting against you, which"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":390.57,"endTime":391.86,"body":"often are the juncture."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":393.24,"endTime":396.93,"body":"So how do you, you know, so are"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":393.24,"endTime":396.93,"body":"you releasing the ulnar sided"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":396.96,"endTime":401.88,"body":"junctura? And then what if you"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":396.96,"endTime":401.88,"body":"just have a not great looking"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":402.21,"endTime":405.81,"body":"radial sagittal band? What do"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":402.21,"endTime":405.81,"body":"you do? Are you are you"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":405.96,"endTime":408.87,"body":"placating that side? Are you"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":405.96,"endTime":408.87,"body":"doing anything to tighten that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":408.87,"endTime":412.47,"body":"up? Or are you going to more of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":408.87,"endTime":412.47,"body":"a reconstruction stabilization?"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":412.95,"endTime":417.03,"body":"Yeah, so I think if it's a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":412.95,"endTime":417.03,"body":"reasonable radial sagittal band,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":417.06,"endTime":421.17,"body":"you can obtain a very"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":417.06,"endTime":421.17,"body":"satisfactory repair. And perhaps"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":421.17,"endTime":424.56,"body":"with that great repair, you"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":421.17,"endTime":424.56,"body":"could move the patient early, I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":424.56,"endTime":427.95,"body":"haven't done that, because the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":424.56,"endTime":427.95,"body":"quality of the tissue is just"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":427.95,"endTime":431.91,"body":"never overwhelmingly good. But"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":427.95,"endTime":431.91,"body":"if you don't have that good"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":431.91,"endTime":436.5,"body":"tissue, it gets trickier. And"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":431.91,"endTime":436.5,"body":"often, if the tissues lousy, the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":436.5,"endTime":439.47,"body":"owner sagittal band may be"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":436.5,"endTime":439.47,"body":"contracted. So you may have to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":439.47,"endTime":443.4,"body":"release that to get the tenon"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":439.47,"endTime":443.4,"body":"back up. But that's when the the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":443.4,"endTime":446.94,"body":"adjacent soft tissues can be"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":443.4,"endTime":446.94,"body":"your best friend. And so if"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":446.94,"endTime":452.91,"body":"there are juncture that are"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":446.94,"endTime":452.91,"body":"really honestly on either side,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":453.12,"endTime":456.72,"body":"then you can figure out a way to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":453.12,"endTime":456.72,"body":"loop those juncture and help to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":456.72,"endTime":460.32,"body":"stabilize the tendon. And so the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":456.72,"endTime":460.32,"body":"best case scenario in my mind is"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":460.32,"endTime":464.07,"body":"if you have an owner side of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":460.32,"endTime":464.07,"body":"juncture that you can release as"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":464.07,"endTime":467.76,"body":"far away from the effective"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":464.07,"endTime":467.76,"body":"finger as possible. And then you"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":467.76,"endTime":472.71,"body":"take that juncture, wrap it over"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":467.76,"endTime":472.71,"body":"the top of the tendon to help"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":472.71,"endTime":475.53,"body":"stabilize the tendon. And then"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":472.71,"endTime":475.53,"body":"in those situations, where it's"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":475.53,"endTime":478.62,"body":"a reconstruction of whatever"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":475.53,"endTime":478.62,"body":"type, it's a little more"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":478.62,"endTime":481.32,"body":"important in my mind to truly"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":478.62,"endTime":481.32,"body":"mobilize them in extension for"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":481.32,"endTime":485.52,"body":"that full six weeks. How do you"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":481.32,"endTime":485.52,"body":"how do you think about it? How"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":485.52,"endTime":486.09,"body":"did you do it?"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":486.87,"endTime":489.15,"body":"You know, there are a couple of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":486.87,"endTime":489.15,"body":"cases in which I've actually"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":489.45,"endTime":492.21,"body":"just placated and imbricated"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":489.45,"endTime":492.21,"body":"that tissue over using an"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":492.21,"endTime":496.2,"body":"anchor, and inserting an anchor"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":492.21,"endTime":496.2,"body":"using that suture to placate and"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":496.2,"endTime":500.19,"body":"stabilize after only after"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":496.2,"endTime":500.19,"body":"releasing the ulnar side, and a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":500.19,"endTime":502.92,"body":"handful of cases that's been"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":500.19,"endTime":502.92,"body":"successful. For me, the thing"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":502.92,"endTime":505.89,"body":"I'm always thinking about is"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":502.92,"endTime":505.89,"body":"like you're saying rearranging"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":505.89,"endTime":509.52,"body":"local tissue, the junk Tura. And"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":505.89,"endTime":509.52,"body":"then the thing that I saw in"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":509.52,"endTime":512.4,"body":"training in residency was"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":509.52,"endTime":512.4,"body":"Michelle Carlson had a technique"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":512.4,"endTime":515.88,"body":"where she actually drilled a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":512.4,"endTime":515.88,"body":"tunnel into the metacarpal head"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":515.88,"endTime":520.14,"body":"and then looped around a tenant"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":515.88,"endTime":520.14,"body":"autographs to help stabilize the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":520.83,"endTime":524.04,"body":"help stabilize, etc. I have not"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":520.83,"endTime":524.04,"body":"had to do that in practice thus"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":524.04,"endTime":526.38,"body":"far. But that's always a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":524.04,"endTime":526.38,"body":"technique I have in the back of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":526.38,"endTime":530.43,"body":"my mind and in case I need"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":526.38,"endTime":530.43,"body":"something to you know, kind of a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":530.43,"endTime":532.95,"body":"last last resort kind of thing."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":533.31,"endTime":537.84,"body":"Yeah, let me be super clear. I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":533.31,"endTime":537.84,"body":"have never used an implant or a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":537.84,"endTime":542.25,"body":"drill hole I respect Michelle"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":537.84,"endTime":542.25,"body":"greatly. I have always done a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":542.25,"endTime":545.64,"body":"complete least soft tissue"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":542.25,"endTime":545.64,"body":"repair and never had any"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":545.64,"endTime":548.76,"body":"regrets. So I'm not sure that's"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":545.64,"endTime":548.76,"body":"necessary. I'm certainly not"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":548.79,"endTime":551.97,"body":"throwing stones but for me, it's"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":548.79,"endTime":551.97,"body":"not been necessary to provide an"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":551.97,"endTime":553.77,"body":"implant or tunnel or anything"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":551.97,"endTime":553.77,"body":"like that."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":555.33,"endTime":558.21,"body":"Well, you know, we'll, we'll see"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":555.33,"endTime":558.21,"body":"how things keep coming along."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":558.21,"endTime":561.84,"body":"But you know, I think that they"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":558.21,"endTime":561.84,"body":"my patients with this have been"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":561.84,"endTime":565.08,"body":"happy so far. I always just find"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":561.84,"endTime":565.08,"body":"it to be an interesting concept"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":565.08,"endTime":567.06,"body":"because it's one of the things"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":565.08,"endTime":567.06,"body":"where a couple of articles or"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":567.09,"endTime":569.34,"body":"you know, review article 10 of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":567.09,"endTime":569.34,"body":"things are mentioned, but we"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":569.34,"endTime":572.1,"body":"never truly get to talk about it"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":569.34,"endTime":572.1,"body":"too much. So yeah, it's a great"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":572.1,"endTime":574.2,"body":"topic. I think it's an"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":572.1,"endTime":574.2,"body":"interesting topic is uncommon"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":574.2,"endTime":579.54,"body":"and, and but an injury that can"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":574.2,"endTime":579.54,"body":"really make you look good"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":579.57,"endTime":582.24,"body":"because I think you can help the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":579.57,"endTime":582.24,"body":"patient obtain great results."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":583.14,"endTime":586.08,"body":"Absolutely. So I did want to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":583.14,"endTime":586.08,"body":"throw in we've got a great"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":586.08,"endTime":590.4,"body":"review on on iTunes. So for"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":586.08,"endTime":590.4,"body":"those of you that are listening,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":590.4,"endTime":593.07,"body":"if you haven't left us a five"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":590.4,"endTime":593.07,"body":"star review on iTunes, please do"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":593.07,"endTime":596.76,"body":"this is from A Gaston- it says"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":593.07,"endTime":596.76,"body":"thank you Dr. Goldfarb and Dr."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":596.76,"endTime":600.48,"body":"Dy. I love your podcasts. I'm"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":596.76,"endTime":600.48,"body":"the new CHT in Chicago. And I'm"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":600.48,"endTime":602.61,"body":"always trying to learn more"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":600.48,"endTime":602.61,"body":"about various treatment options"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":602.61,"endTime":604.68,"body":"for hand conditions, surgical"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":602.61,"endTime":604.68,"body":"techniques and how to best serve"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":604.68,"endTime":607.95,"body":"my patients. You both share so"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":604.68,"endTime":607.95,"body":"much insight in a way that keeps"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":607.95,"endTime":611.46,"body":"me entertained and informed."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":607.95,"endTime":611.46,"body":"This podcast is a fabulous"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":611.46,"endTime":615.09,"body":"resource. I appreciate your"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":611.46,"endTime":615.09,"body":"taking your time spent recording"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":615.09,"endTime":619.53,"body":"this information you two rock."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":615.09,"endTime":619.53,"body":"So thank you for that wonderful"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":619.53,"endTime":620.55,"body":"review A. Gaston."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":621.33,"endTime":626.22,"body":"Thank you very much grateful"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":621.33,"endTime":626.22,"body":"and, you know, gives us fuel as"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":626.22,"endTime":627.45,"body":"we've said a million times."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":628.14,"endTime":631.11,"body":"Absolutely. So we had a great"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":628.14,"endTime":631.11,"body":"episode last week with Farsh"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":631.11,"endTime":634.65,"body":"Gulak incredibly accomplished"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":631.11,"endTime":634.65,"body":"scientists all around fantastic"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":634.65,"endTime":635.19,"body":"person."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":636.12,"endTime":639.63,"body":"We ended and we did not sorry to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":636.12,"endTime":639.63,"body":"interrupt, we did not get into"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":639.63,"endTime":645.93,"body":"his science. If if arthritis at"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":639.63,"endTime":645.93,"body":"all interests you, you should"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":645.93,"endTime":650.28,"body":"look up what farsh is doing. It"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":645.93,"endTime":650.28,"body":"is absolutely fundamentally"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":650.28,"endTime":654.09,"body":"stunning. And, you know, you"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":650.28,"endTime":654.09,"body":"never know who's going to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":654.09,"endTime":659.67,"body":"ultimately get the job done, so"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":654.09,"endTime":659.67,"body":"to speak. But I if I had to put"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":659.67,"endTime":663.21,"body":"some money down, I might bet on"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":659.67,"endTime":663.21,"body":"Farshad, this clinical trial he"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":663.36,"endTime":666.54,"body":"briefly mentioned to us and we"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":663.36,"endTime":666.54,"body":"didn't have time to dive in into"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":666.54,"endTime":669.12,"body":"it in too much detail. Sounds"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":666.54,"endTime":669.12,"body":"amazing."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":669.96,"endTime":672.75,"body":"Yeah, and a lot of money's on"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":669.96,"endTime":672.75,"body":"that guy, I guarantee he's gonna"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":672.78,"endTime":676.23,"body":"He's gonna make a huge dent in"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":672.78,"endTime":676.23,"body":"it. You know that time he's"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":676.65,"endTime":680.52,"body":"hanging it up. And then one of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":676.65,"endTime":680.52,"body":"his many trainees and mentees"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":680.55,"endTime":684.84,"body":"will, you know, take the ball"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":680.55,"endTime":684.84,"body":"and run with it. So definitely"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":684.84,"endTime":687.6,"body":"look into his science, if you"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":684.84,"endTime":687.6,"body":"haven't, he's incredibly"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":687.6,"endTime":690.39,"body":"accomplished. So we talked a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":687.6,"endTime":690.39,"body":"little bit with him about"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":690.39,"endTime":694.08,"body":"uncertainty, which leads us into"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":690.39,"endTime":694.08,"body":"this week's discussion about a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":694.11,"endTime":698.07,"body":"Harvard Business Review article"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":694.11,"endTime":698.07,"body":"about uncertainty. And this, you"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":698.07,"endTime":700.83,"body":"know, those of us that still get"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":698.07,"endTime":700.83,"body":"the print journals, Chuck, I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":700.83,"endTime":704.16,"body":"know you had your beef with HBR"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":700.83,"endTime":704.16,"body":"recently, but I ran into this"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":704.16,"endTime":708.99,"body":"when I was reading my magazine,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":704.16,"endTime":708.99,"body":"and it's called How to overcome"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":708.99,"endTime":712.47,"body":"your fear of the unknown. The"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":708.99,"endTime":712.47,"body":"authors are Nathan Furr and"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":712.47,"endTime":715.38,"body":"Susannah Harmon Furr for and"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":712.47,"endTime":715.38,"body":"it's from the July August"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":715.38,"endTime":720.39,"body":"edition of HBR of this year."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":715.38,"endTime":720.39,"body":"And, you know, I think that, you"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":720.39,"endTime":723.36,"body":"know, I'll just read the first"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":720.39,"endTime":723.36,"body":"two paragraphs, because I think"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":723.36,"endTime":725.67,"body":"it's a good way to start the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":723.36,"endTime":725.67,"body":"discussion. And then maybe"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":725.67,"endTime":727.44,"body":"Chuck, you and I can talk a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":725.67,"endTime":727.44,"body":"little bit about some of the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":727.44,"endTime":730.38,"body":"principles that they discuss"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":727.44,"endTime":730.38,"body":"here. Sounds okay."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":730.98,"endTime":735.78,"body":"I would love to I guess I would,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":730.98,"endTime":735.78,"body":"maybe if it's okay. I learned a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":735.78,"endTime":739.44,"body":"little bit. I always like to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":735.78,"endTime":739.44,"body":"look up the authors. They are"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":739.44,"endTime":743.16,"body":"both extraordinarily well"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":739.44,"endTime":743.16,"body":"trained. And Nathan works at"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":743.19,"endTime":747.99,"body":"INSEAD, which is labeled as the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":743.19,"endTime":747.99,"body":"business school for the world."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":748.23,"endTime":751.14,"body":"It's one of the world's leading"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":748.23,"endTime":751.14,"body":"and largest graduate business"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":751.14,"endTime":756.48,"body":"schools, locations in France,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":751.14,"endTime":756.48,"body":"Singapore, Abu Dhabi, and San"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":756.48,"endTime":762.03,"body":"Francisco. And, you know, really"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":756.48,"endTime":762.03,"body":"interesting, he's a, I'm just"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":762.03,"endTime":765.03,"body":"focusing on Nathan for a second."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":762.03,"endTime":765.03,"body":"He's a professor of innovation."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":765.27,"endTime":768.6,"body":"And yeah, really, really"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":765.27,"endTime":768.6,"body":"intrigued. I love this business."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":768.6,"endTime":770.91,"body":"Well, as you and I have"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":768.6,"endTime":770.91,"body":"discussed and, and really take"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":770.91,"endTime":772.8,"body":"pleasure in talking about"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":770.91,"endTime":772.8,"body":"articles like this one."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":772.98,"endTime":773.46,"body":"Absolutely."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":773.46,"endTime":775.38,"body":"And I know a lot of our"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":773.46,"endTime":775.38,"body":"listeners appreciate when we"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":775.38,"endTime":777.84,"body":"take a little bit of time away"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":775.38,"endTime":777.84,"body":"from the hand surgery hand"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":777.84,"endTime":780.63,"body":"therapy world to, to do some"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":777.84,"endTime":780.63,"body":"stuff that's a little more"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":780.63,"endTime":785.1,"body":"general. So this talks about how"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":780.63,"endTime":785.1,"body":"humans are wired to fear the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":785.1,"endTime":788.43,"body":"unknown. That's why uncertainty"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":785.1,"endTime":788.43,"body":"can feel nerve wracking,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":788.43,"endTime":790.86,"body":"exhausting, and even"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":788.43,"endTime":790.86,"body":"debilitating, however, that gut"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":790.86,"endTime":794.25,"body":"reaction leads people to miss a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":790.86,"endTime":794.25,"body":"crucial fact, uncertainty and"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":794.25,"endTime":798.21,"body":"possibility are two sides of the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":794.25,"endTime":798.21,"body":"same coin. Consider the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":798.21,"endTime":800.46,"body":"achievements, you're most proud"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":798.21,"endTime":800.46,"body":"of the moments that transformed"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":800.46,"endTime":802.59,"body":"your life, the relationships"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":800.46,"endTime":802.59,"body":"that make your life worth"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":802.59,"endTime":805.5,"body":"living, we'll bet that they all"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":802.59,"endTime":805.5,"body":"happen after a period of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":805.5,"endTime":808.74,"body":"uncertainty. One that probably"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":805.5,"endTime":808.74,"body":"felt stressful, but that you"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":808.74,"endTime":812.1,"body":"nevertheless push through to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":808.74,"endTime":812.1,"body":"accomplish something great. So"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":812.1,"endTime":815.7,"body":"that's the intro. Chuck, can you"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":812.1,"endTime":815.7,"body":"think of any periods of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":815.7,"endTime":818.58,"body":"uncertainty that come to mind"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":815.7,"endTime":818.58,"body":"for you that, you know, ended up"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":818.58,"endTime":822.33,"body":"being, you know, substantial to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":818.58,"endTime":822.33,"body":"you?"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":824.88,"endTime":827.91,"body":"I can certainly think of some in"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":824.88,"endTime":827.91,"body":"the past and, you know, as I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":827.91,"endTime":834.33,"body":"kind of contemplate, I'm at that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":827.91,"endTime":834.33,"body":"middle age moment of crisis. For"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":834.33,"endTime":837.45,"body":"some, I don't feel like I'm in"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":834.33,"endTime":837.45,"body":"crisis, but it's super"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":837.45,"endTime":840.99,"body":"interesting time of life. And I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":837.45,"endTime":840.99,"body":"know some of the listeners may"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":840.99,"endTime":843.48,"body":"appreciate this, or be dealing"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":840.99,"endTime":843.48,"body":"with something like this, you"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":843.48,"endTime":846.3,"body":"kind of get to this point where"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":843.48,"endTime":846.3,"body":"your kids are out of the house"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":846.3,"endTime":851.31,"body":"or seem to be out of the house"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":846.3,"endTime":851.31,"body":"and ice cream, you know, just up"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":851.31,"endTime":855.45,"body":"front of ice cream towards"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":851.31,"endTime":855.45,"body":"success. And then you know, my"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":855.48,"endTime":859.44,"body":"my dynamic is changing because"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":855.48,"endTime":859.44,"body":"friends are talking about or"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":859.44,"endTime":864.15,"body":"potentially moving away. Do I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":859.44,"endTime":864.15,"body":"want to consider a job move, and"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":864.15,"endTime":868.11,"body":"you know, things like that are"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":864.15,"endTime":868.11,"body":"just top of mind. And in this"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":868.11,"endTime":871.2,"body":"situation, and in previous ones,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":868.11,"endTime":871.2,"body":"it's always the same kind of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":871.2,"endTime":875.13,"body":"thought. I understand where I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":871.2,"endTime":875.13,"body":"am, understand what I can"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":875.13,"endTime":878.91,"body":"accomplish here. And it just"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":875.13,"endTime":878.91,"body":"feels easy, and it feels safe."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":879.21,"endTime":883.98,"body":"But acknowledging that just as"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":879.21,"endTime":883.98,"body":"farsh did in that last episode,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":884.19,"endTime":887.4,"body":"when he discussed the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":884.19,"endTime":887.4,"body":"uncertainty he felt in moving to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":887.4,"endTime":891.06,"body":"St. Louis from a really safe"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":887.4,"endTime":891.06,"body":"established place at Duke is"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":891.06,"endTime":895.77,"body":"really important. I totally get"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":891.06,"endTime":895.77,"body":"it do stay safe and maybe not be"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":895.77,"endTime":898.92,"body":"jolted enough to do as much as"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":895.77,"endTime":898.92,"body":"you could or do you think about"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":898.92,"endTime":900.48,"body":"a really terrifying move."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":901.41,"endTime":905.52,"body":"Yeah, no, I think that at least"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":901.41,"endTime":905.52,"body":"acknowledging the fact that you"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":905.52,"endTime":909.63,"body":"feel safe, and that this feels"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":905.52,"endTime":909.63,"body":"easy, is an important thing."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":909.66,"endTime":913.56,"body":"And, you know, I think there are"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":909.66,"endTime":913.56,"body":"many, many listeners who have"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":913.56,"endTime":915.84,"body":"had to deal with this on a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":913.56,"endTime":915.84,"body":"personal level, whether it's,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":915.84,"endTime":918.84,"body":"you know, a lot of times it is"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":915.84,"endTime":918.84,"body":"professional in terms of whether"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":918.84,"endTime":922.65,"body":"you move positions or move your"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":918.84,"endTime":922.65,"body":"life somewhere else. But I think"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":922.65,"endTime":925.59,"body":"that the thought process, at"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":922.65,"endTime":925.59,"body":"least of considering what you"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":925.59,"endTime":928.41,"body":"have and what potentially you"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":925.59,"endTime":928.41,"body":"might want, and what can happen,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":929.01,"endTime":932.46,"body":"that process in and of itself is"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":929.01,"endTime":932.46,"body":"good to go through. So tell us"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":932.49,"endTime":933.96,"body":"give us an example from your"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":932.49,"endTime":933.96,"body":"life."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":934.98,"endTime":938.16,"body":"Moving to St. Louis, you know, I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":934.98,"endTime":938.16,"body":"think that that was, I think"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":938.16,"endTime":940.32,"body":"I've told this on the pod"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":938.16,"endTime":940.32,"body":"before, but you know, when I was"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":941.67,"endTime":945.72,"body":"so I matched for the fellowship"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":941.67,"endTime":945.72,"body":"here in St. Louis, when I was a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":945.72,"endTime":948.39,"body":"resident in New York City, and I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":945.72,"endTime":948.39,"body":"matched in was like May of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":948.45,"endTime":952.95,"body":"whatever year, and I matched."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":948.45,"endTime":952.95,"body":"And then I think it was August,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":952.98,"endTime":957.21,"body":"and our former partner and my"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":952.98,"endTime":957.21,"body":"former co resident Dan Osei"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":957.21,"endTime":961.53,"body":"called me in August. So"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":957.21,"endTime":961.53,"body":"literally, was it three months"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":961.53,"endTime":964.56,"body":"after I matched? And said, Hey,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":961.53,"endTime":964.56,"body":"would you be interested in"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":964.56,"endTime":968.37,"body":"coming and interviewing for a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":964.56,"endTime":968.37,"body":"job? And I'm, like, really,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":968.43,"endTime":971.97,"body":"like, just matched? Like, you"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":968.43,"endTime":971.97,"body":"know, that's, I know, Chuck,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":971.97,"endTime":974.22,"body":"you're probably wringing your"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":971.97,"endTime":974.22,"body":"hands saying, What the heck are"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":974.22,"endTime":978.09,"body":"we doing interviewing somebody"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":974.22,"endTime":978.09,"body":"who hasn't even spent any time"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":978.09,"endTime":982.83,"body":"here? And, you know, so I, of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":978.09,"endTime":982.83,"body":"course, said yes. Because that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":982.83,"endTime":985.5,"body":"would be super awkward. If I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":982.83,"endTime":985.5,"body":"turned down a job interview"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":985.5,"endTime":989.1,"body":"before coming out of fellowship,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":985.5,"endTime":989.1,"body":"I was, I was flattered, I was"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":989.1,"endTime":991.65,"body":"flattered. Because you know, at"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":989.1,"endTime":991.65,"body":"that point, it still is the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":991.65,"endTime":994.2,"body":"department, it was World beating"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":991.65,"endTime":994.2,"body":"in terms of, you know,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":994.38,"endTime":997.38,"body":"recognition for the stuff that I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":994.38,"endTime":997.38,"body":"valued. You know, you know,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":997.38,"endTime":1002.3,"body":"academic reputation and research"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":997.38,"endTime":1002.3,"body":"potential and teaching and you"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1002.3,"endTime":1005.78,"body":"know, all that. So I was talking"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1002.3,"endTime":1005.78,"body":"to my wife, we were in the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1005.78,"endTime":1009.41,"body":"kitchen in our apartment in New"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1005.78,"endTime":1009.41,"body":"York, and I said, Hey, I really"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1009.41,"endTime":1012.2,"body":"have to go take this interview."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1009.41,"endTime":1012.2,"body":"She said, Yeah, of course, you"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1012.2,"endTime":1014.93,"body":"have to do the interview. She"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1012.2,"endTime":1014.93,"body":"said, There's no way in hell,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1014.93,"endTime":1017.72,"body":"we're moving to St. Louis for"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1014.93,"endTime":1017.72,"body":"more than one year, literal"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1017.72,"endTime":1021.29,"body":"words out of her mouth. And I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1017.72,"endTime":1021.29,"body":"said, Okay, fine. So then I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1021.29,"endTime":1024.59,"body":"remember talking to Dr."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1021.29,"endTime":1024.59,"body":"Gelberman. Secretary at the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1024.59,"endTime":1027.29,"body":"time, because he was the chair"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1024.59,"endTime":1027.29,"body":"and Cheryl, I talked to Cheryl I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1027.29,"endTime":1030.32,"body":"said, I'd be happy to interview"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1027.29,"endTime":1030.32,"body":"I will tell you just reality,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1030.35,"endTime":1032.75,"body":"you know, my wife and I are"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1030.35,"endTime":1032.75,"body":"coming as a package deal. And"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1032.75,"endTime":1036.5,"body":"she's a physician. And she is,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1032.75,"endTime":1036.5,"body":"you know, looking at jobs, too."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1037.22,"endTime":1040.52,"body":"Is there a possibility. And so,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1037.22,"endTime":1040.52,"body":"Cheryl and Dr. Gelberman, I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1040.52,"endTime":1044.18,"body":"think work their magic and set"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1040.52,"endTime":1044.18,"body":"up a fantastic interview day for"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1044.18,"endTime":1048.59,"body":"both of us, we actually came for"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1044.18,"endTime":1048.59,"body":"a recruitment weekend. And when"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1048.59,"endTime":1052.31,"body":"Cheryl sent out the itinerary,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1048.59,"endTime":1052.31,"body":"the itinerary was very nice. It"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1052.31,"endTime":1055.37,"body":"was nicely put together as"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1052.31,"endTime":1055.37,"body":"professional, you know, all the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1055.37,"endTime":1060.2,"body":"stuff that you would expect out"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1055.37,"endTime":1060.2,"body":"of Cheryl and Dr. Gelberman. And"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1060.23,"endTime":1063.98,"body":"my wife looked at the itinerary."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1060.23,"endTime":1063.98,"body":"And she said, I might fall for"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1063.98,"endTime":1068.0,"body":"this. And the rest is history."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1063.98,"endTime":1068.0,"body":"But you know, that's, you know,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1068.03,"endTime":1071.03,"body":"we went on a couple of visits."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1068.03,"endTime":1071.03,"body":"And it was a big leap, because"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1071.03,"endTime":1074.69,"body":"neither of us have family in St."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1071.03,"endTime":1074.69,"body":"Louis. we'd both be starting in"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1074.69,"endTime":1076.73,"body":"our first jobs in our career,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1074.69,"endTime":1076.73,"body":"and certainly your first jobs"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1076.73,"endTime":1081.5,"body":"are not your last jobs. But, you"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1076.73,"endTime":1081.5,"body":"know, like, it was everything"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1081.5,"endTime":1083.6,"body":"that I academically was"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1081.5,"endTime":1083.6,"body":"everything I thought it was"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1083.6,"endTime":1086.72,"body":"going to be. But we just weren't"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1083.6,"endTime":1086.72,"body":"sure about raising a family and"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1086.72,"endTime":1089.57,"body":"St. Louis. You know, Tiffany's"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1086.72,"endTime":1089.57,"body":"from Houston, I grew up in"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1089.57,"endTime":1093.86,"body":"Florida, we loved living in New"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1089.57,"endTime":1093.86,"body":"York. I think geographically, we"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1093.86,"endTime":1096.44,"body":"weren't sure. Family wise, we"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1093.86,"endTime":1096.44,"body":"weren't sure. Culturally, we"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1096.44,"endTime":1099.44,"body":"weren't sure. Because, you know,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1096.44,"endTime":1099.44,"body":"this is it was important for us"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1099.44,"endTime":1101.78,"body":"to think about what it would be"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1099.44,"endTime":1101.78,"body":"like to raise, you know, Asian"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1101.78,"endTime":1104.93,"body":"American children in the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1101.78,"endTime":1104.93,"body":"Midwest. And, you know, it's"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1104.93,"endTime":1108.95,"body":"obviously a lot easier on the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1104.93,"endTime":1108.95,"body":"coasts. So that was an important"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1108.95,"endTime":1111.14,"body":"consideration for us. So in many"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1108.95,"endTime":1111.14,"body":"ways, there's a lot of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1111.14,"endTime":1115.04,"body":"uncertainty for us. But we"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1111.14,"endTime":1115.04,"body":"decided that we would give it"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1115.04,"endTime":1119.09,"body":"five years. And at the five year"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1115.04,"endTime":1119.09,"body":"mark, we've loved it. So and"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1119.09,"endTime":1121.13,"body":"then we're going to check in"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1119.09,"endTime":1121.13,"body":"again, if we actually talked"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1121.13,"endTime":1124.43,"body":"about it last night, when we"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1121.13,"endTime":1124.43,"body":"were pre ice cream we were"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1124.43,"endTime":1128.0,"body":"talking about, you know, how is"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1124.43,"endTime":1128.0,"body":"it so far? And I think there are"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1128.0,"endTime":1131.27,"body":"many reasons why the uncertainty"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1128.0,"endTime":1131.27,"body":"thing has paid off. But I mean,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1131.27,"endTime":1133.94,"body":"I think it is, you know,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1131.27,"endTime":1133.94,"body":"struggling and you know, dealing"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1133.94,"endTime":1135.83,"body":"with it initially and then kind"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1133.94,"endTime":1135.83,"body":"of pushing through."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1137.01,"endTime":1139.44,"body":"Yeah, essentially, it I don't"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1137.01,"endTime":1139.44,"body":"want to say anything"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1139.44,"endTime":1143.64,"body":"inappropriate. But I will say"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1139.44,"endTime":1143.64,"body":"that when Dr. Gelberman who had"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1143.67,"endTime":1147.15,"body":"and I've said this before on the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1143.67,"endTime":1147.15,"body":"podcast, has many talents, but"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1147.18,"endTime":1153.3,"body":"identification of future"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1147.18,"endTime":1153.3,"body":"impactful orthopedic surgeons"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1153.3,"endTime":1156.9,"body":"and scientists is certainly one"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1153.3,"endTime":1156.9,"body":"of his greatest talents. When he"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1156.9,"endTime":1160.71,"body":"said in August, before you"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1156.9,"endTime":1160.71,"body":"arrived, the following August,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1161.07,"endTime":1164.88,"body":"we're going to recruit Dr. Dy to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1161.07,"endTime":1164.88,"body":"join us, all of us have the same"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1164.88,"endTime":1168.63,"body":"response, why he's good on"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1164.88,"endTime":1168.63,"body":"paper, but we have a free job"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1168.63,"endTime":1171.36,"body":"interview. We give it three"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1168.63,"endTime":1171.36,"body":"months here next year, and we'll"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1171.36,"endTime":1173.82,"body":"figure out whether we really"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1171.36,"endTime":1173.82,"body":"like him. He's like, No, we need"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1173.82,"endTime":1179.04,"body":"to do it now. And we need to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1173.82,"endTime":1179.04,"body":"lock him up. And you know, who"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1179.04,"endTime":1180.18,"body":"argued with Dr. Gelberman?"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1181.89,"endTime":1186.96,"body":"I will say, you know, looking"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1181.89,"endTime":1186.96,"body":"back on the process, I was very"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1186.96,"endTime":1191.46,"body":"strategic of him, because he"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1186.96,"endTime":1191.46,"body":"knew my value. I didn't know my"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1191.46,"endTime":1196.8,"body":"value. He could lock me up. And"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1191.46,"endTime":1196.8,"body":"I would not be able to look for"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1196.8,"endTime":1199.17,"body":"jobs because nobody else would"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1196.8,"endTime":1199.17,"body":"be looking at somebody at that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1199.17,"endTime":1203.64,"body":"point. So I took a couple of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1199.17,"endTime":1203.64,"body":"phone calls at other places. But"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1203.64,"endTime":1206.19,"body":"again, it was like way too early"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1203.64,"endTime":1206.19,"body":"for them to know their"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1206.19,"endTime":1208.92,"body":"situation. And he had the luxury"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1206.19,"endTime":1208.92,"body":"of being the chair in the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1208.92,"endTime":1212.58,"body":"department where he could grow"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1208.92,"endTime":1212.58,"body":"and put just recruit people, and"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1212.58,"endTime":1215.55,"body":"not necessarily need the volume"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1212.58,"endTime":1215.55,"body":"to immediately make them busy."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1216.42,"endTime":1220.53,"body":"So I think he strategically was"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1216.42,"endTime":1220.53,"body":"a master. And I look at the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1220.53,"endTime":1223.14,"body":"situation, I know that the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1220.53,"endTime":1223.14,"body":"dynamic was definitely in his"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1223.14,"endTime":1224.97,"body":"favor. And I'm just fortunate it"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1223.14,"endTime":1224.97,"body":"worked out because he was right."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1224.97,"endTime":1228.72,"body":"It was It is It was It is a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1224.97,"endTime":1228.72,"body":"fantastic position. And I'm"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1228.78,"endTime":1231.87,"body":"totally thrilled that it worked"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1228.78,"endTime":1231.87,"body":"out. But yeah, so it was a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1231.87,"endTime":1235.74,"body":"little scary. I can imagine how"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1231.87,"endTime":1235.74,"body":"scary it was on your eyes. And I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1235.74,"endTime":1238.47,"body":"remember the fellowship being"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1235.74,"endTime":1238.47,"body":"colored by the fact that it was"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1238.47,"endTime":1240.75,"body":"a year long job interview, and I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1238.47,"endTime":1240.75,"body":"kept waiting to get called into"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1240.75,"endTime":1245.25,"body":"the office saying, so we've"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1240.75,"endTime":1245.25,"body":"reconsider."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1247.23,"endTime":1250.89,"body":"You know, Gelberman had done a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1247.23,"endTime":1250.89,"body":"number of things as chair, I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1250.89,"endTime":1252.87,"body":"think, you know, and I don't"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1250.89,"endTime":1252.87,"body":"want to give him too much"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1252.87,"endTime":1256.17,"body":"credit. But I think a couple of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1252.87,"endTime":1256.17,"body":"these things are legitimately"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1256.17,"endTime":1258.33,"body":"his two best of my"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1256.17,"endTime":1258.33,"body":"understanding. One is the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1258.33,"endTime":1261.6,"body":"changing face of what academic"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1258.33,"endTime":1261.6,"body":"orthopedics looks like, the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1261.6,"endTime":1266.34,"body":"compensation plan and the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1261.6,"endTime":1266.34,"body":"expectations and what he did way"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1266.34,"endTime":1271.44,"body":"back is now standard for every"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1266.34,"endTime":1271.44,"body":"orthopedic, you know, program, I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1271.44,"endTime":1276.75,"body":"think in the country. And then"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1271.44,"endTime":1276.75,"body":"this early hiring, also super"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1276.75,"endTime":1280.98,"body":"interesting and easier to do"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1276.75,"endTime":1280.98,"body":"with it huge groups like we have"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1281.22,"endTime":1284.79,"body":"harder to do for smaller groups."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1281.22,"endTime":1284.79,"body":"But wow, I think that was a an"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1284.79,"endTime":1287.55,"body":"innovative approach that Dr."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1284.79,"endTime":1287.55,"body":"Gelberman took that certainly"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1287.55,"endTime":1288.87,"body":"has paid dividends for us."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1289.2,"endTime":1292.77,"body":"Absolutely. And so one of the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1289.2,"endTime":1292.77,"body":"the first principle in this"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1292.77,"endTime":1296.73,"body":"article is actually about"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1292.77,"endTime":1296.73,"body":"reframing your situation. And"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1296.76,"endTime":1299.07,"body":"multiple there's talking about"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1296.76,"endTime":1299.07,"body":"here that most people are loss"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1299.07,"endTime":1301.74,"body":"averse. And multiple studies"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1299.07,"endTime":1301.74,"body":"demonstrate the way you frame"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1301.74,"endTime":1305.25,"body":"things affects how you make"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1301.74,"endTime":1305.25,"body":"decisions. And I'll tell I'll"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1305.25,"endTime":1307.86,"body":"lead with a personal example. I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1305.25,"endTime":1307.86,"body":"remember coming back from the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1307.86,"endTime":1311.61,"body":"job interview, and speaking to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1307.86,"endTime":1311.61,"body":"the then Chief of the hand"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1311.61,"endTime":1314.85,"body":"service Ed Athanasian, at HSS."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1311.61,"endTime":1314.85,"body":"And saying, you know, what do"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1314.85,"endTime":1319.56,"body":"you think I should do? And he"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1314.85,"endTime":1319.56,"body":"reframed it in a way that I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1319.56,"endTime":1322.56,"body":"thought was incredible. He was"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1319.56,"endTime":1322.56,"body":"like, Look, even if it doesn't"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1322.56,"endTime":1326.49,"body":"work out, just think of it as an"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1322.56,"endTime":1326.49,"body":"extension of your training. You"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1326.49,"endTime":1328.41,"body":"know, you're gonna go there,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1326.49,"endTime":1328.41,"body":"you're going to start as"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1328.41,"endTime":1330.45,"body":"faculty, you're going to learn"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1328.41,"endTime":1330.45,"body":"something, and if it doesn't"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1330.45,"endTime":1334.08,"body":"work out, you can move on. And I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1330.45,"endTime":1334.08,"body":"think that, you know, as a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1334.08,"endTime":1337.23,"body":"trainee, you're always thinking,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1334.08,"endTime":1337.23,"body":"you know, again, to put it back"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1337.23,"endTime":1339.57,"body":"to a basketball analogy, it's"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1337.23,"endTime":1339.57,"body":"like, you want to be the the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1339.6,"endTime":1342.45,"body":"person that plays for one team"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1339.6,"endTime":1342.45,"body":"their entire career, like, you"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1342.45,"endTime":1344.94,"body":"know, you want to be the Kobe"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1342.45,"endTime":1344.94,"body":"you don't like do you look at"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1344.94,"endTime":1348.42,"body":"somebody who moves teams and"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1344.94,"endTime":1348.42,"body":"moves jobs. And if there's"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1348.42,"endTime":1350.28,"body":"something wrong with that,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1348.42,"endTime":1350.28,"body":"there's clearly nothing wrong"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1350.28,"endTime":1354.0,"body":"with that. And you know, the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1350.28,"endTime":1354.0,"body":"statistics, at least orthopedic"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1354.0,"endTime":1356.13,"body":"surgeons, they're out there,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1354.0,"endTime":1356.13,"body":"most people are, you know, at"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1356.13,"endTime":1359.64,"body":"least 50% of people are moving"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1356.13,"endTime":1359.64,"body":"jobs after, you know, they move"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1359.64,"endTime":1362.82,"body":"on after their first job. So I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1359.64,"endTime":1362.82,"body":"think reframing that is"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1362.82,"endTime":1365.52,"body":"important, don't go into, you"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1362.82,"endTime":1365.52,"body":"know, at least for those that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1365.52,"endTime":1368.16,"body":"are surgeons coming out of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1365.52,"endTime":1368.16,"body":"practice, don't look, don't come"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1368.16,"endTime":1370.5,"body":"out looking at your first job,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1368.16,"endTime":1370.5,"body":"like it's your last job, for"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1370.5,"endTime":1370.92,"body":"sure."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1371.61,"endTime":1376.02,"body":"Right. And at this point, the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1371.61,"endTime":1376.02,"body":"author's continue along this"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1376.02,"endTime":1381.12,"body":"point about stop being risk"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1376.02,"endTime":1381.12,"body":"averse, or it's not stopping"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1381.12,"endTime":1384.72,"body":"risk averse, or loss of versus"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1381.12,"endTime":1384.72,"body":"just reframing, as you said, and"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1384.72,"endTime":1387.96,"body":"they go on to talk about the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1384.72,"endTime":1387.96,"body":"infinite game theory. And I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1387.96,"endTime":1390.33,"body":"believe you have read and I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1387.96,"endTime":1390.33,"body":"certainly have read and it was"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1390.33,"endTime":1394.35,"body":"impactful. Simon Sinek's book,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1390.33,"endTime":1394.35,"body":"on the infinite game, and the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1394.35,"endTime":1398.19,"body":"message is clear, right? Stop"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1394.35,"endTime":1398.19,"body":"thinking about what what good"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1398.19,"endTime":1402.84,"body":"can happen, what bad can happen."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1398.19,"endTime":1402.84,"body":"Think about the bigger picture"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1403.02,"endTime":1407.97,"body":"in goals. And rather than a list"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1403.02,"endTime":1407.97,"body":"of pros and cons, just think"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1407.97,"endTime":1412.5,"body":"about your targets. You know, he"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1407.97,"endTime":1412.5,"body":"says, you know, stop seeing the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1412.5,"endTime":1414.96,"body":"rules, the boundaries, the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1412.5,"endTime":1414.96,"body":"purpose of the game, you're"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1414.96,"endTime":1417.69,"body":"playing the job, you're after"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1414.96,"endTime":1417.69,"body":"the project you've been assigned"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1417.96,"endTime":1422.46,"body":"as fixed. If you do see it as"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1417.96,"endTime":1422.46,"body":"fixed, then you're stuck. It's a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1422.46,"endTime":1426.84,"body":"win, or it's a loss. But if you"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1422.46,"endTime":1426.84,"body":"think about uncertainty as being"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1426.87,"endTime":1430.89,"body":"part of the big picture, then it"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1426.87,"endTime":1430.89,"body":"works. It just works better. But"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1430.89,"endTime":1432.99,"body":"it's not always easy to do that."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1433.74,"endTime":1436.35,"body":"Yeah, I mean, especially, you"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1433.74,"endTime":1436.35,"body":"know, when you're thinking about"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1436.35,"endTime":1439.11,"body":"very tangible things, do I get"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1436.35,"endTime":1439.11,"body":"that I get that fellowship"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1439.11,"endTime":1441.3,"body":"interview? Did I get the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1439.11,"endTime":1441.3,"body":"fellowship? Did I get that job"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1441.3,"endTime":1444.15,"body":"interview? Did I get the job?"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1441.3,"endTime":1444.15,"body":"Did I get the grant to the paper"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1444.15,"endTime":1446.94,"body":"get published. And we talked"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1444.15,"endTime":1446.94,"body":"last week with farsh about, you"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1446.94,"endTime":1451.38,"body":"know, how losing and not"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1446.94,"endTime":1451.38,"body":"succeeding is actually part of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1451.41,"endTime":1455.58,"body":"the process. It's not, failure"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1451.41,"endTime":1455.58,"body":"is not bad. Failure is just part"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1455.58,"endTime":1458.82,"body":"of the process. And you know, he"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1455.58,"endTime":1458.82,"body":"hit it spot on about accepting"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1458.82,"endTime":1462.87,"body":"failure as part of, you know,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1458.82,"endTime":1462.87,"body":"what we have to deal with. And"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1462.87,"endTime":1465.57,"body":"it's very different than patient"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1462.87,"endTime":1465.57,"body":"care. You know, we're wired to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1465.57,"endTime":1468.03,"body":"think patient care, you always"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1465.57,"endTime":1468.03,"body":"win, you have to win. Like"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1468.03,"endTime":1470.16,"body":"you're supposed to help"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1468.03,"endTime":1470.16,"body":"somebody, you walk into a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1470.16,"endTime":1473.04,"body":"surgery, you have a very"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1470.16,"endTime":1473.04,"body":"tangible goal, somebody walks"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1473.04,"endTime":1474.87,"body":"into your office, you have a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1473.04,"endTime":1474.87,"body":"tangible goal, and you're"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1474.87,"endTime":1479.07,"body":"supposed to help them. And I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1474.87,"endTime":1479.07,"body":"think that part of the reason"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1479.07,"endTime":1481.98,"body":"why I like some of the complex"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1479.07,"endTime":1481.98,"body":"stuff that that I do, and I know"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1481.98,"endTime":1484.41,"body":"that you like some of the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1481.98,"endTime":1484.41,"body":"complex stuff you do is that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1484.71,"endTime":1487.53,"body":"there is a little bit of that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1484.71,"endTime":1487.53,"body":"uncertainty that gives that kind"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1487.53,"endTime":1490.2,"body":"of gets to keeps you engaged and"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1487.53,"endTime":1490.2,"body":"makes you want to keep pushing"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1490.2,"endTime":1493.5,"body":"towards a goal. But you have to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1490.2,"endTime":1493.5,"body":"accept that you know, not every"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1493.53,"endTime":1497.01,"body":"pan Plexus patient is going to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1493.53,"endTime":1497.01,"body":"get better and not every patient"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1497.01,"endTime":1500.01,"body":"who you're reconstructing"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1497.01,"endTime":1500.01,"body":"congenital deformity is going to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1500.01,"endTime":1503.97,"body":"Get the exact function that you"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1500.01,"endTime":1503.97,"body":"want. But I think it adds to the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1503.97,"endTime":1506.1,"body":"enjoyment at the end of the day"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1503.97,"endTime":1506.1,"body":"because you are still working"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1506.1,"endTime":1508.83,"body":"towards a goal. But you accept"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1506.1,"endTime":1508.83,"body":"the uncertainty."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1509.79,"endTime":1513.18,"body":"Yeah, I think that's well said"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1509.79,"endTime":1513.18,"body":"is super interesting. Because,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1514.35,"endTime":1519.63,"body":"you know, for the patient care"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1514.35,"endTime":1519.63,"body":"piece, we always are striving"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1519.63,"endTime":1523.83,"body":"for the win black and white. And"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1519.63,"endTime":1523.83,"body":"if it can be black and white,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1523.89,"endTime":1528.75,"body":"and we get the win, great. If we"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1523.89,"endTime":1528.75,"body":"don't get the win, the surgeon"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1528.81,"endTime":1532.98,"body":"may still benefit in the sense"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1528.81,"endTime":1532.98,"body":"that we may learn something that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1532.98,"endTime":1536.55,"body":"helps us with the other"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1532.98,"endTime":1536.55,"body":"patients. But none of us are"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1536.55,"endTime":1540.42,"body":"willing, well, I would hope not"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1536.55,"endTime":1540.42,"body":"are willing to sacrifice the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1540.42,"endTime":1545.4,"body":"care of any single patient in"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1540.42,"endTime":1545.4,"body":"that goal. And I hesitate on new"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1545.4,"endTime":1550.8,"body":"procedures, for example, for"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1545.4,"endTime":1550.8,"body":"that very reason. But in life,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1550.83,"endTime":1555.6,"body":"this, this framing is really"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1550.83,"endTime":1555.6,"body":"helpful. Absolutely, absolutely."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1555.93,"endTime":1557.07,"body":"100% agree with that."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1558.12,"endTime":1565.62,"body":"I got at the risk of I guess"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1558.12,"endTime":1565.62,"body":"mispronouncing the Patagonia"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1565.62,"endTime":1570.51,"body":"story is super interesting. And"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1565.62,"endTime":1570.51,"body":"they reference Shannara, I think"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1570.51,"endTime":1573.3,"body":"I pronounced his name, I don't"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1570.51,"endTime":1573.3,"body":"know. But the founder of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1573.3,"endTime":1577.68,"body":"Patagonia, is deemed in this"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1573.3,"endTime":1577.68,"body":"article as an infinite player,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1577.86,"endTime":1584.19,"body":"because he was sort of a misfit"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1577.86,"endTime":1584.19,"body":"as a child. And he really has"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1584.19,"endTime":1587.97,"body":"done things differently. To"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1584.19,"endTime":1587.97,"body":"build Patagonia to the brand it"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1587.97,"endTime":1593.22,"body":"is today. He's taken really big"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1587.97,"endTime":1593.22,"body":"risks and challenges. And what I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1593.22,"endTime":1597.33,"body":"love about his reference in this"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1593.22,"endTime":1597.33,"body":"article, it's about having a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1597.33,"endTime":1602.58,"body":"value based approach to the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1597.33,"endTime":1602.58,"body":"decisions that you make. Don't"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1602.58,"endTime":1607.26,"body":"make a decision in isolation, as"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1602.58,"endTime":1607.26,"body":"you know, to who you are or what"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1607.26,"endTime":1610.11,"body":"you and your family want to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1607.26,"endTime":1610.11,"body":"accomplish. It all has to be"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1610.11,"endTime":1612.51,"body":"wrapped up. And if you always"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1610.11,"endTime":1612.51,"body":"think about and we talked about"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1612.51,"endTime":1615.75,"body":"this a lot in department"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1612.51,"endTime":1615.75,"body":"leadership, let our decisions be"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1615.75,"endTime":1619.98,"body":"based on our values, and trust"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1615.75,"endTime":1619.98,"body":"that it'll work out. Yeah. And I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1619.98,"endTime":1624.03,"body":"think that that relates"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1619.98,"endTime":1624.03,"body":"perfectly to a concept that you"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1624.03,"endTime":1626.4,"body":"know, the other author, we"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1624.03,"endTime":1626.4,"body":"talked about Simon Sinek, in his"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1626.4,"endTime":1630.54,"body":"book, start with why"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1626.4,"endTime":1630.54,"body":"understanding your why is all"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1630.54,"endTime":1633.6,"body":"about understanding your values."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1630.54,"endTime":1633.6,"body":"And I think without taking the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1633.6,"endTime":1636.3,"body":"time to understand your values,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1633.6,"endTime":1636.3,"body":"you're going to be making no"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1636.33,"endTime":1638.73,"body":"decision, you're just going to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1636.33,"endTime":1638.73,"body":"be going from decision to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1638.73,"endTime":1642.09,"body":"decision as opposed to thinking"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1638.73,"endTime":1642.09,"body":"strategically. Since you brought"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1642.09,"endTime":1644.61,"body":"up the founder of Patagonia, I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1642.09,"endTime":1644.61,"body":"wanted to see your thoughts"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1644.61,"endTime":1648.54,"body":"about one of these quotes, since"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1644.61,"endTime":1648.54,"body":"you are, you know, a big leader"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1648.54,"endTime":1653.19,"body":"in our department. He talks"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1648.54,"endTime":1653.19,"body":"about how managers of a business"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1653.19,"endTime":1655.89,"body":"that wants to be around for the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1653.19,"endTime":1655.89,"body":"next 100 years had better love"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1655.89,"endTime":1660.0,"body":"change. When there is no crisis,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1655.89,"endTime":1660.0,"body":"the Wise Leader will invent one."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1660.15,"endTime":1661.32,"body":"So what do you think about that?"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1662.4,"endTime":1665.25,"body":"It you know, it's super"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1662.4,"endTime":1665.25,"body":"interesting. And that's my"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1665.25,"endTime":1668.4,"body":"expression, I guess, of the day"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1665.25,"endTime":1668.4,"body":"of the podcast, or whatever. So"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1668.4,"endTime":1674.13,"body":"I probably say too much. I don't"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1668.4,"endTime":1674.13,"body":"believe in that. And maybe that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1674.13,"endTime":1677.88,"body":"shows my naivety and it maybe"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1674.13,"endTime":1677.88,"body":"it's because we're not a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1677.91,"endTime":1681.24,"body":"publicly traded major company."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1677.91,"endTime":1681.24,"body":"But you know, leadership"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1681.45,"endTime":1684.81,"body":"flourishes in times of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1681.45,"endTime":1684.81,"body":"uncertainty and in times of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1684.81,"endTime":1689.4,"body":"challenge. And if they're, if"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1684.81,"endTime":1689.4,"body":"everything's just smooth, and"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1689.43,"endTime":1693.45,"body":"everything's smooth sailing,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1689.43,"endTime":1693.45,"body":"then you can start to question"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1693.45,"endTime":1696.06,"body":"whether you need this leader or"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1693.45,"endTime":1696.06,"body":"whether this leader is doing"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1696.06,"endTime":1699.72,"body":"everything he or she needs to be"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1696.06,"endTime":1699.72,"body":"doing for your organization,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1699.72,"endTime":1703.17,"body":"your HR department, whatever, I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1699.72,"endTime":1703.17,"body":"can promise you that there is"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1703.17,"endTime":1707.28,"body":"enough stuff going on that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1703.17,"endTime":1707.28,"body":"neither Regis nor I have to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1707.28,"endTime":1712.14,"body":"create anything. We have plenty"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1707.28,"endTime":1712.14,"body":"of opportunity. But it is"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1712.14,"endTime":1716.55,"body":"interesting. I mean, it is. Let"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1712.14,"endTime":1716.55,"body":"me give you a concrete example."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1716.88,"endTime":1723.72,"body":"The Dean asked us to bring the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1716.88,"endTime":1723.72,"body":"neuro rehabilitation division,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1724.02,"endTime":1726.57,"body":"which is made up of Physical"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1724.02,"endTime":1726.57,"body":"Medicine, rehabilitation"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1726.57,"endTime":1731.7,"body":"doctors, and neurologist into"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1726.57,"endTime":1731.7,"body":"our department. And so nine"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1731.7,"endTime":1734.04,"body":"months ago, they officially"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1731.7,"endTime":1734.04,"body":"became a member of our"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1734.04,"endTime":1738.0,"body":"department now that builds upon"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1734.04,"endTime":1738.0,"body":"the classic musculoskeletal"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1738.0,"endTime":1741.51,"body":"physical medicine rehabilitation"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1738.0,"endTime":1741.51,"body":"doctors that we've had in our"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1741.51,"endTime":1745.02,"body":"department forever. And so it's"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1741.51,"endTime":1745.02,"body":"really, but it's a very"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1745.05,"endTime":1750.87,"body":"different type of medicine. And"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1745.05,"endTime":1750.87,"body":"try to look at this as a as an"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1750.87,"endTime":1758.28,"body":"opportunity as a challenge for"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1750.87,"endTime":1758.28,"body":"sure a cultural challenge. A"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1758.28,"endTime":1762.96,"body":"challenge to me personally, to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1758.28,"endTime":1762.96,"body":"relate to people that are not"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1762.96,"endTime":1765.51,"body":"orthopedic surgeons, or are"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1762.96,"endTime":1765.51,"body":"schooled in the way that I've"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1765.51,"endTime":1769.83,"body":"been schooled. And it has been"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1765.51,"endTime":1769.83,"body":"just that it's been a challenge."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1770.64,"endTime":1775.23,"body":"But I've learned along the way."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1770.64,"endTime":1775.23,"body":"And so I think it's just it is a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1775.23,"endTime":1779.13,"body":"reframing of the question"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1775.23,"endTime":1779.13,"body":"reframing of the whole process"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1779.13,"endTime":1782.67,"body":"and understanding that this is"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1779.13,"endTime":1782.67,"body":"not going to be a simple win, or"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1782.67,"endTime":1785.22,"body":"a simple fail. This is going to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1782.67,"endTime":1785.22,"body":"be a process."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1786.72,"endTime":1790.23,"body":"So I want to ask you a personal"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1786.72,"endTime":1790.23,"body":"question. And this brings us to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1790.23,"endTime":1793.56,"body":"the second principle which is"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1790.23,"endTime":1793.56,"body":"priming yourself for new risks."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1793.59,"endTime":1795.72,"body":"So they talked about how some of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1793.59,"endTime":1795.72,"body":"the most innovative people in"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1795.72,"endTime":1798.81,"body":"the world and some of the best"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1795.72,"endTime":1798.81,"body":"leaders take risks in many"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1798.81,"endTime":1800.04,"body":"domains, but they also have"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1800.04,"endTime":1802.95,"body":"Some domains in which they do"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1800.04,"endTime":1802.95,"body":"not take risks. For example,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1802.95,"endTime":1807.06,"body":"Steve Jobs always wearing the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1802.95,"endTime":1807.06,"body":"black turtleneck. So they talk"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1807.06,"endTime":1810.33,"body":"about reducing uncertainty in"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1807.06,"endTime":1810.33,"body":"one or some parts of your life"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1810.33,"endTime":1813.09,"body":"it Prime's, you to tolerate it"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1810.33,"endTime":1813.09,"body":"more in other parts. So is there"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1813.09,"endTime":1816.99,"body":"anything in which you feel like"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1813.09,"endTime":1816.99,"body":"your uncertainty is low, and you"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1816.99,"endTime":1820.23,"body":"know exactly what you're"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1816.99,"endTime":1820.23,"body":"getting. So that you can be have"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1820.23,"endTime":1823.53,"body":"the bandwidth or the energy to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1820.23,"endTime":1823.53,"body":"be to tolerate uncertainty in"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1823.53,"endTime":1824.43,"body":"other parts of your life?"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1824.0,"endTime":1829.31,"body":"So it's a super complex"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1824.0,"endTime":1829.31,"body":"question, I will start by saying"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1829.31,"endTime":1834.83,"body":"I don't consider myself the most"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1829.31,"endTime":1834.83,"body":"innovative of people. I think we"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1834.83,"endTime":1838.97,"body":"all should, or eventually, we'll"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1834.83,"endTime":1838.97,"body":"know our strengths. I don't know"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1838.97,"endTime":1842.06,"body":"that everyone is honest with"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1838.97,"endTime":1842.06,"body":"themselves about what they do"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1842.06,"endTime":1844.55,"body":"well, what they could do better,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1842.06,"endTime":1844.55,"body":"and what may not just be a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1844.55,"endTime":1848.42,"body":"strength. And while I do think I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1844.55,"endTime":1848.42,"body":"can think creatively in certain"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1848.45,"endTime":1853.94,"body":"realms, and I'm doing that with"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1848.45,"endTime":1853.94,"body":"implant design now, currently, I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1853.94,"endTime":1857.09,"body":"don't think it comes easily to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1853.94,"endTime":1857.09,"body":"me like it comes more easily to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1857.09,"endTime":1860.72,"body":"others. But there is no doubt"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1857.09,"endTime":1860.72,"body":"and I think that this is going"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1860.72,"endTime":1864.5,"body":"to could be offensive, it's not"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1860.72,"endTime":1864.5,"body":"meant to be, I think, for us,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1864.5,"endTime":1868.31,"body":"given the amount of our time"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1864.5,"endTime":1868.31,"body":"that we spent in patient care,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1868.49,"endTime":1873.62,"body":"the more we can create a system"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1868.49,"endTime":1873.62,"body":"where patient care is"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1873.62,"endTime":1876.74,"body":"standardized. And of course, I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1873.62,"endTime":1876.74,"body":"you know, I do the exercise, and"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1876.74,"endTime":1879.26,"body":"I get up at the same time and"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1876.74,"endTime":1879.26,"body":"all those kinds of things. And I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1879.26,"endTime":1883.1,"body":"have great support at home, all"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1879.26,"endTime":1883.1,"body":"those kinds of things make life"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1883.1,"endTime":1886.4,"body":"more standard, and really"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1883.1,"endTime":1886.4,"body":"simplify one aspect of my life."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1886.61,"endTime":1892.01,"body":"But the more we can make put the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1886.61,"endTime":1892.01,"body":"patient care in a controllable"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1892.58,"endTime":1895.88,"body":"box, which is not always"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1892.58,"endTime":1895.88,"body":"possible, then the more we have"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1895.88,"endTime":1900.41,"body":"time and energy for the other"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1895.88,"endTime":1900.41,"body":"stuff, which may require more"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1900.41,"endTime":1903.83,"body":"creativity and more focus and"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1900.41,"endTime":1903.83,"body":"the like. And so, you know,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1903.83,"endTime":1906.05,"body":"patient care is always going to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1903.83,"endTime":1906.05,"body":"be the most important thing to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1906.05,"endTime":1910.04,"body":"me. But a lot of the time is"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1906.05,"endTime":1910.04,"body":"controllable and doable at a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1910.04,"endTime":1913.7,"body":"high level in a manageable way."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1910.04,"endTime":1913.7,"body":"Something is that fair?"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1913.88,"endTime":1916.64,"body":"Yeah, that's fair. I mean,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1913.88,"endTime":1916.64,"body":"that's, that's, you're certainly"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1916.64,"endTime":1920.15,"body":"entitled to your opinion. I'm"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1916.64,"endTime":1920.15,"body":"gonna disagree with you, just"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1920.15,"endTime":1923.78,"body":"because I think that the patient"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1920.15,"endTime":1923.78,"body":"care part is the uncertainty in"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1923.78,"endTime":1928.16,"body":"a lot of ways. You know, I, a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1923.78,"endTime":1928.16,"body":"lot of time, I don't micromanage"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1928.16,"endTime":1931.04,"body":"my schedule enough to know"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1928.16,"endTime":1931.04,"body":"whether I'm seeing 45 patients"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1931.07,"endTime":1935.12,"body":"on one day, or 57. And I need to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1931.07,"endTime":1935.12,"body":"be better about that. But I also"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1935.12,"endTime":1938.45,"body":"have embraced that my clinical"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1935.12,"endTime":1938.45,"body":"hours are going to be uncertain"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1938.48,"endTime":1942.44,"body":"in many ways. And my clinical"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1938.48,"endTime":1942.44,"body":"cares is not going to neatly"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1942.44,"endTime":1944.84,"body":"follow it. And yes, I could be"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1942.44,"endTime":1944.84,"body":"much better about trying to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1944.84,"endTime":1948.44,"body":"standardize that. But the way"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1944.84,"endTime":1948.44,"body":"that I try to minimize my"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1948.44,"endTime":1954.59,"body":"uncertainties is just the very"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1948.44,"endTime":1954.59,"body":"practical thing. I tried to one"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1954.59,"endTime":1956.84,"body":"of our partners loves to run"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1954.59,"endTime":1956.84,"body":"outside and loves to exercise"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1956.84,"endTime":1960.47,"body":"outside every morning and rain,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1956.84,"endTime":1960.47,"body":"sleet, shine, whatever David's"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1960.47,"endTime":1964.16,"body":"out there running, I do not want"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1960.47,"endTime":1964.16,"body":"that I want to know exactly what"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1964.16,"endTime":1966.29,"body":"time I can work out, I'm going"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1964.16,"endTime":1966.29,"body":"to work out in the exact same"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1966.32,"endTime":1968.72,"body":"conditions every morning by"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1966.32,"endTime":1968.72,"body":"workout in our gym in our"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1968.72,"endTime":1974.72,"body":"basement. And that's it. And I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1968.72,"endTime":1974.72,"body":"as you know, I like food. And I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1974.72,"endTime":1978.26,"body":"think about food a lot. And one"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1974.72,"endTime":1978.26,"body":"of the things that gives"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1978.26,"endTime":1981.5,"body":"structure to my week is on the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1978.26,"endTime":1981.5,"body":"weekend, Saturday, Sunday, going"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1981.5,"endTime":1985.04,"body":"into the week, I write a menu"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1981.5,"endTime":1985.04,"body":"for the week, and I shot for the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1985.04,"endTime":1989.84,"body":"week, and map out exactly based"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1985.04,"endTime":1989.84,"body":"on our schedule, what dinner is"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1989.84,"endTime":1993.05,"body":"going to be for the entire week."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1989.84,"endTime":1993.05,"body":"And that's my minimizing my"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1993.05,"endTime":1996.86,"body":"uncertainty in that realm. And"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1993.05,"endTime":1996.86,"body":"then also trying to, you know,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1996.86,"endTime":2000.64,"body":"when I can protect my time for"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1996.86,"endTime":2000.64,"body":"the academic stuff that I need"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2000.64,"endTime":2004.87,"body":"to do. And I think adding that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2000.64,"endTime":2004.87,"body":"structure, and minimizing the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2004.87,"endTime":2008.23,"body":"uncertainty and scheduling"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2004.87,"endTime":2008.23,"body":"academic time helps me deal with"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2008.23,"endTime":2010.0,"body":"uncertainty in every other part"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2008.23,"endTime":2010.0,"body":"of the week."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2011.32,"endTime":2013.57,"body":"I think that's all really well"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2011.32,"endTime":2013.57,"body":"said and I don't disagree with"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2013.57,"endTime":2016.12,"body":"any of it a bit. I think I said"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2013.57,"endTime":2016.12,"body":"it differently. But let me go"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2016.12,"endTime":2019.36,"body":"back. First of all, the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2016.12,"endTime":2019.36,"body":"structure that we can apply to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2019.36,"endTime":2022.72,"body":"our lives make sense. And that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2019.36,"endTime":2022.72,"body":"can be the grocery list, or that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2022.72,"endTime":2025.78,"body":"can be the to do list. It's"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2022.72,"endTime":2025.78,"body":"amazing. When I don't have a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2025.78,"endTime":2028.6,"body":"physical To Do List, when I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2025.78,"endTime":2028.6,"body":"start to feel stressed, I have a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2028.6,"endTime":2032.35,"body":"lot of different things going on"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2028.6,"endTime":2032.35,"body":"writing stuff down, physically"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2032.35,"endTime":2036.76,"body":"changes everything. And that's"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2032.35,"endTime":2036.76,"body":"personality driven. So I really"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2036.76,"endTime":2041.08,"body":"do like that. And let me go back"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2036.76,"endTime":2041.08,"body":"to the patient care when I have"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2041.08,"endTime":2045.46,"body":"a manageable patient care week."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2041.08,"endTime":2045.46,"body":"And again, my goal is not to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2045.46,"endTime":2049.21,"body":"minimize or decrease the number"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2045.46,"endTime":2049.21,"body":"of patients I care for, but it's"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2049.21,"endTime":2053.17,"body":"to best management to manage it."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2049.21,"endTime":2053.17,"body":"So it doesn't leak into other"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2053.17,"endTime":2057.37,"body":"parts of my life. Right when I'm"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2053.17,"endTime":2057.37,"body":"successful there. Everything"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2057.37,"endTime":2061.18,"body":"else falls into place when the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2057.37,"endTime":2061.18,"body":"patient care part overwhelms and"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2061.18,"endTime":2065.05,"body":"it has the last few weeks doing"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2061.18,"endTime":2065.05,"body":"cases on the wrong days and all"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2065.05,"endTime":2069.46,"body":"that kind of stuff. It's just"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2065.05,"endTime":2069.46,"body":"harder and so trying to you"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2069.46,"endTime":2073.93,"body":"know, keep that in its lane. Not"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2069.46,"endTime":2073.93,"body":"possible always. But when"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2073.93,"endTime":2078.4,"body":"possible. It is something that I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2073.93,"endTime":2078.4,"body":"feel really opens up the rest of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2078.4,"endTime":2082.45,"body":"my life whether it be at work or"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2078.4,"endTime":2082.45,"body":"at home to more success."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2082.54,"endTime":2085.63,"body":"Absolutely agree with that. I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2082.54,"endTime":2085.63,"body":"mean, crushing a crushing a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2085.63,"endTime":2087.61,"body":"clinic in a way where you get"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2085.63,"endTime":2087.61,"body":"everything done, everything's"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2087.61,"endTime":2090.97,"body":"happy, everybody's happy. You've"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2087.61,"endTime":2090.97,"body":"you've gotten your notes done"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2090.97,"endTime":2093.46,"body":"and you're walking out at the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2090.97,"endTime":2093.46,"body":"time you intend to walk out that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2093.46,"endTime":2096.19,"body":"feels so good and then not"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2093.46,"endTime":2096.19,"body":"having to do cases on off days"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2096.19,"endTime":2099.67,"body":"although that's the reality of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2096.19,"endTime":2099.67,"body":"you know, call etc. I agree with"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2099.67,"endTime":2102.04,"body":"the entire only on the on the to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2099.67,"endTime":2102.04,"body":"do list thing that had"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2102.04,"endTime":2104.53,"body":"structured when I'm starting to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2102.04,"endTime":2104.53,"body":"think I'm getting a little bit"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2104.53,"endTime":2107.89,"body":"overwhelmed. And that brings us"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2104.53,"endTime":2107.89,"body":"to our next stage about doing"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2107.89,"endTime":2108.34,"body":"something."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2108.94,"endTime":2112.93,"body":"Well, and I like this, it goes"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2108.94,"endTime":2112.93,"body":"again back to what Farsh said,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2112.96,"endTime":2115.54,"body":"when he had a, I don't know if"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2112.96,"endTime":2115.54,"body":"he didn't really say it this"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2115.54,"endTime":2119.89,"body":"way. But clearly he had a long"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2115.54,"endTime":2119.89,"body":"horizon of view of what the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2119.89,"endTime":2122.89,"body":"goals were that he wanted to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2119.89,"endTime":2122.89,"body":"accomplish. And so number three"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2122.89,"endTime":2126.01,"body":"is do something. Taking action"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2122.89,"endTime":2126.01,"body":"is one of the most important"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2126.01,"endTime":2129.73,"body":"parts of facing uncertainty,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2126.01,"endTime":2129.73,"body":"since you learn with each step"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2129.73,"endTime":2134.14,"body":"that you take. And so taking"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2129.73,"endTime":2134.14,"body":"that first step is absolutely"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2134.14,"endTime":2138.04,"body":"critical. And I think we all"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2134.14,"endTime":2138.04,"body":"know that once we take a step"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2138.37,"endTime":2141.19,"body":"may end up being in the wrong"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2138.37,"endTime":2141.19,"body":"direction. But when you take the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2141.19,"endTime":2143.77,"body":"step, I think you can exhale a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2141.19,"endTime":2143.77,"body":"bit."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2144.07,"endTime":2146.86,"body":"Yeah, absolutely. I mean, I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2144.07,"endTime":2146.86,"body":"think that you, you just need to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2146.86,"endTime":2149.83,"body":"get the ball rolling, get some"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2146.86,"endTime":2149.83,"body":"momentum and get something"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2149.83,"endTime":2153.16,"body":"moving towards that big goal."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2149.83,"endTime":2153.16,"body":"Once you get overwhelmed by the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2153.16,"endTime":2155.38,"body":"big goal, thinking that you have"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2153.16,"endTime":2155.38,"body":"to hit a homerun every time"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2155.38,"endTime":2158.74,"body":"you're a bat. That's the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2155.38,"endTime":2158.74,"body":"problem. You know, so whether"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2158.74,"endTime":2160.96,"body":"that's clinical care, or"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2158.74,"endTime":2160.96,"body":"research, I mean, you know, in"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2160.96,"endTime":2163.75,"body":"the research from when people"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2160.96,"endTime":2163.75,"body":"are reviewing grants, they like"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2163.75,"endTime":2166.96,"body":"to use the word incremental as a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2163.75,"endTime":2166.96,"body":"bad thing. And, you know, farsh"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2166.96,"endTime":2169.21,"body":"mentioned that, you know, he"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2166.96,"endTime":2169.21,"body":"specifically said incremental,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2169.21,"endTime":2172.9,"body":"but in a good way. Because you"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2169.21,"endTime":2172.9,"body":"need to take those small"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2172.9,"endTime":2175.48,"body":"incremental steps, the baby"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2172.9,"endTime":2175.48,"body":"steps before you can learn to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2175.48,"endTime":2178.72,"body":"run before you can actually put"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2175.48,"endTime":2178.72,"body":"enough together where you can"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2178.75,"endTime":2180.67,"body":"make a difference. But you've"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2178.75,"endTime":2180.67,"body":"got to start somewhere."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2181.75,"endTime":2184.3,"body":"Yeah, and then the same point,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2181.75,"endTime":2184.3,"body":"they had another interesting"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2184.99,"endTime":2190.69,"body":"look, take on values. And they"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2184.99,"endTime":2190.69,"body":"emphasized the role of values"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2190.69,"endTime":2194.56,"body":"rather than goals. And I think"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2190.69,"endTime":2194.56,"body":"it's both honestly, you gotta"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2194.56,"endTime":2199.33,"body":"have goals, because they can"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2194.56,"endTime":2199.33,"body":"guide you. But if you obsess"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2199.33,"endTime":2202.9,"body":"about the goals and the the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2199.33,"endTime":2202.9,"body":"meeting or not meeting other"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2202.9,"endTime":2205.96,"body":"goals, then you don't have you"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2202.9,"endTime":2205.96,"body":"have a finite game, right? And"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2205.96,"endTime":2209.92,"body":"then you can lose. And so yes,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2205.96,"endTime":2209.92,"body":"have some goals, but really be"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2209.92,"endTime":2213.76,"body":"about the value based process,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2209.92,"endTime":2213.76,"body":"rather than the meeting or not"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2213.76,"endTime":2215.59,"body":"meeting specific goals, right."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2215.59,"endTime":2218.08,"body":"And then the values all tie back"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2215.59,"endTime":2218.08,"body":"to that why, like, what's,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2218.11,"endTime":2220.93,"body":"what's the reason you're doing"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2218.11,"endTime":2220.93,"body":"all of this? And, you know,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2220.93,"endTime":2223.63,"body":"again, understanding your values"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2220.93,"endTime":2223.63,"body":"will that'll be your compass."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2223.9,"endTime":2225.94,"body":"Although I think I agree with"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2223.9,"endTime":2225.94,"body":"you, I think you need the goals"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2225.94,"endTime":2228.34,"body":"as you know, as guideposts."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2230.08,"endTime":2234.01,"body":"Yeah. And then the fourth point,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2230.08,"endTime":2234.01,"body":"which I think is, it's"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2234.01,"endTime":2238.12,"body":"interesting, how many of these"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2234.01,"endTime":2238.12,"body":"very business see articles have"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2238.33,"endTime":2242.83,"body":"points like this, and it's"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2238.33,"endTime":2242.83,"body":"sustained yourself. It's about"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2243.31,"endTime":2247.3,"body":"taking care of yourself. And as"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2243.31,"endTime":2247.3,"body":"we continue to talk about"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2247.3,"endTime":2252.31,"body":"finding ways that you can"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2247.3,"endTime":2252.31,"body":"address failure, you can"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2252.55,"endTime":2256.45,"body":"position yourself for success."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2252.55,"endTime":2256.45,"body":"And it's an individual"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2256.48,"endTime":2260.41,"body":"understanding of what makes you"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2256.48,"endTime":2260.41,"body":"tick, and how you can most"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2260.41,"endTime":2261.79,"body":"successfully move forward."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2263.17,"endTime":2265.93,"body":"Yeah, and I think that this"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2263.17,"endTime":2265.93,"body":"definitely speaks to the concept"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2265.93,"endTime":2268.63,"body":"of burnout for sure about"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2265.93,"endTime":2268.63,"body":"because if you don't have a good"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2268.63,"endTime":2271.39,"body":"way to be attentive to your,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2268.63,"endTime":2271.39,"body":"what he calls your emotional"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2271.39,"endTime":2274.27,"body":"hygiene, so attending to your"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2271.39,"endTime":2274.27,"body":"emotions, as much as you would"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2274.27,"endTime":2276.55,"body":"have physical wounds, so that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2274.27,"endTime":2276.55,"body":"they don't turn into paralyzing"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2276.55,"endTime":2280.48,"body":"self doubt, or unproductive"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2276.55,"endTime":2280.48,"body":"rumination and reality checks in"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2280.48,"endTime":2283.75,"body":"which you recognize that failure"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2280.48,"endTime":2283.75,"body":"is part of the process. You"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2283.75,"endTime":2286.63,"body":"know, it's a practice of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2283.75,"endTime":2286.63,"body":"medicine for a reason. You know,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2286.63,"endTime":2289.03,"body":"again, like you're saying nobody"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2286.63,"endTime":2289.03,"body":"wants as a patient, nobody wants"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2289.03,"endTime":2291.37,"body":"to be on the learning side of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2289.03,"endTime":2291.37,"body":"things in terms of learning"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2291.37,"endTime":2294.58,"body":"curve. So we strive for"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2291.37,"endTime":2294.58,"body":"excellence and perfection in"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2294.58,"endTime":2298.57,"body":"every way. But recognizing that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2294.58,"endTime":2298.57,"body":"we as physicians, and therapists"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2298.57,"endTime":2301.93,"body":"and health care providers, we"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2298.57,"endTime":2301.93,"body":"need to be able to record and"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2301.93,"endTime":2305.47,"body":"have insights and take care of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2301.93,"endTime":2305.47,"body":"ourselves emotionally, in terms"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2305.47,"endTime":2309.1,"body":"of trying to figure out how we"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2305.47,"endTime":2309.1,"body":"can, you know, bounce back, and,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2309.52,"endTime":2311.17,"body":"you know, help the next patient."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2312.43,"endTime":2315.19,"body":"Yeah, yeah, I think that's well"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2312.43,"endTime":2315.19,"body":"said, if it's okay with you, I'm"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2315.19,"endTime":2320.71,"body":"gonna read the closing paragraph"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2315.19,"endTime":2320.71,"body":"or part of it, which I think is"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2320.71,"endTime":2324.61,"body":"really good. It says resilience,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2320.71,"endTime":2324.61,"body":"being able to take a blow and"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2324.61,"endTime":2327.88,"body":"stay standing is important. But"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2324.61,"endTime":2327.88,"body":"we argue for something more"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2327.88,"endTime":2331.6,"body":"learning to transform"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2327.88,"endTime":2331.6,"body":"uncertainty into opportunity,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2331.78,"endTime":2334.57,"body":"the only way for any of us to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2331.78,"endTime":2334.57,"body":"tap into new possibilities"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2334.57,"endTime":2338.08,"body":"through the gateway of the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2334.57,"endTime":2338.08,"body":"unknown. And it doesn't have to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2338.08,"endTime":2340.9,"body":"be a painful process, if you"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2338.08,"endTime":2340.9,"body":"believe in your ability to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2340.9,"endTime":2344.68,"body":"navigate it. Our hope is that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2340.9,"endTime":2344.68,"body":"you use our advice to transform"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2344.68,"endTime":2347.29,"body":"your relationship with change,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2344.68,"endTime":2347.29,"body":"and inspire others to do the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2347.29,"endTime":2350.71,"body":"same. It is about framework and"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2347.29,"endTime":2350.71,"body":"I really liked this article,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2350.71,"endTime":2351.67,"body":"thank you for sharing it."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2352.15,"endTime":2354.25,"body":"Yeah, happy to do it. I think"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2352.15,"endTime":2354.25,"body":"it's a good one. And I think"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2354.25,"endTime":2357.61,"body":"that it's a, it's one that I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2354.25,"endTime":2357.61,"body":"will probably put in the archive"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2357.61,"endTime":2360.22,"body":"to go through with the trainings"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2357.61,"endTime":2360.22,"body":"on my rotation because I like it"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2360.22,"endTime":2362.95,"body":"a lot. And I think that there's"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2360.22,"endTime":2362.95,"body":"so many ways in which all of us"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2362.95,"endTime":2366.34,"body":"can relate to it. So hopefully,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2362.95,"endTime":2366.34,"body":"you that are listening. If you"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2366.61,"endTime":2368.71,"body":"have you know, check out the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2366.61,"endTime":2368.71,"body":"article. If you liked the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2368.71,"endTime":2371.77,"body":"episode, let us know. And you"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2368.71,"endTime":2371.77,"body":"know, share your pearls on how"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2371.77,"endTime":2375.1,"body":"you've dealt with uncertainty or"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2371.77,"endTime":2375.1,"body":"if you're wanting Chuck's advice"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2375.1,"endTime":2377.38,"body":"on something because he's got"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2375.1,"endTime":2377.38,"body":"far more experience. So feel"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2377.38,"endTime":2381.25,"body":"free to send us an email"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2377.38,"endTime":2381.25,"body":"Handpodcast@gmail.com Or find us"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2381.25,"endTime":2384.37,"body":"on social or leave it in a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2381.25,"endTime":2384.37,"body":"review and let us know we'd love"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2384.37,"endTime":2385.3,"body":"to hear from you."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2386.47,"endTime":2389.2,"body":"Absolutely. And Chris, I am"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2386.47,"endTime":2389.2,"body":"certain that you're not going to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2389.2,"endTime":2391.99,"body":"be in the office too much"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2389.2,"endTime":2391.99,"body":"longer, but I hope you have a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2391.99,"endTime":2394.9,"body":"good day while these these"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2391.99,"endTime":2394.9,"body":"manuscript provisions from jbjs"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2394.9,"endTime":2397.96,"body":"are saying otherwise. I'm gonna"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2394.9,"endTime":2397.96,"body":"get back to dealing with my"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2397.96,"endTime":2400.33,"body":"personal failures right now."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2401.29,"endTime":2402.16,"body":"Awesome. Have a great day."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2402.19,"endTime":2403.0,"body":"You too. Take care."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2403.03,"endTime":2403.39,"body":"Bye."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2404.26,"endTime":2406.75,"body":"Hey, Chris. That was fun. Let's"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2404.26,"endTime":2406.75,"body":"do it again real soon."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2407.02,"endTime":2410.02,"body":"Sounds good. Well, be sure to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2407.02,"endTime":2410.02,"body":"check us out on Twitter at Han"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2410.02,"endTime":2410.65,"body":"podcast."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2410.68,"endTime":2413.95,"body":"Hey, Chuck, what's your Twitter"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2410.68,"endTime":2413.95,"body":"handle? Mine is at congenital"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2413.95,"endTime":2418.36,"body":"hand. What about you? Mine is at"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2413.95,"endTime":2418.36,"body":"ChrisDyMD spelled d-y. And if"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2418.36,"endTime":2420.94,"body":"you'd like to email us, you can"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2418.36,"endTime":2420.94,"body":"reach us at hand"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2420.94,"endTime":2422.53,"body":"podcast@gmail.com."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2423.13,"endTime":2426.34,"body":"And remember, please subscribe"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2423.13,"endTime":2426.34,"body":"wherever you get your podcast"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2426.37,"endTime":2428.98,"body":"and be sure to leave a review"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2426.37,"endTime":2428.98,"body":"that helps us get the word out."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2429.37,"endTime":2432.58,"body":"Special thanks to Peter Martin"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2429.37,"endTime":2432.58,"body":"for the amazing music. And"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2432.58,"endTime":2435.64,"body":"remember, keep the upper hand"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2432.58,"endTime":2435.64,"body":"come back next time"}]}