{"version":"1.0.0","segments":[{"speaker":"Charles Goldfarb","startTime":3.6,"endTime":5.97,"body":"Welcome to the"},{"speaker":"Charles Goldfarb","startTime":3.6,"endTime":5.97,"body":"Upper Hand Podcast where Chuck"},{"speaker":"Charles Goldfarb","startTime":6.0,"endTime":7.44,"body":"and Chris talk Hansard."},{"speaker":"Chris Dy","startTime":7.89,"endTime":9.69,"body":"We are two hand"},{"speaker":"Chris Dy","startTime":7.89,"endTime":9.69,"body":"surgeons at Washington"},{"speaker":"Chris Dy","startTime":9.69,"endTime":12.33,"body":"University in St. Louis here to"},{"speaker":"Chris Dy","startTime":9.69,"endTime":12.33,"body":"talk about all things hand"},{"speaker":"Chris Dy","startTime":12.33,"endTime":14.64,"body":"surgery related from technical"},{"speaker":"Chris Dy","startTime":12.33,"endTime":14.64,"body":"to personal."},{"speaker":"Charles Goldfarb","startTime":15.33,"endTime":17.43,"body":"Please"},{"speaker":"Charles Goldfarb","startTime":15.33,"endTime":17.43,"body":"subscribe, wherever you get your"},{"speaker":"Charles Goldfarb","startTime":17.43,"endTime":18.18,"body":"podcasts."},{"speaker":"Chris Dy","startTime":18.93,"endTime":21.3,"body":"And thank you in"},{"speaker":"Chris Dy","startTime":18.93,"endTime":21.3,"body":"advance for leaving a review and"},{"speaker":"Chris Dy","startTime":21.3,"endTime":23.58,"body":"leaving a rating wherever you"},{"speaker":"Chris Dy","startTime":21.3,"endTime":23.58,"body":"get your podcast."},{"speaker":"Charles Goldfarb","startTime":24.18,"endTime":24.99,"body":"Oh, hey,"},{"speaker":"Charles Goldfarb","startTime":24.18,"endTime":24.99,"body":"Chris."},{"speaker":"Chris Dy","startTime":25.44,"endTime":27.9,"body":"Hey, Chuck, how are"},{"speaker":"Chris Dy","startTime":25.44,"endTime":27.9,"body":"you? I'm great. This is we're"},{"speaker":"Chris Dy","startTime":27.9,"endTime":30.06,"body":"actually sitting across the"},{"speaker":"Chris Dy","startTime":27.9,"endTime":30.06,"body":"table from each other with"},{"speaker":"Chris Dy","startTime":30.06,"endTime":32.88,"body":"microphones and everything. It's"},{"speaker":"Chris Dy","startTime":30.06,"endTime":32.88,"body":"kind of like it's January 2020."},{"speaker":"Charles Goldfarb","startTime":33.72,"endTime":37.23,"body":"It is exactly"},{"speaker":"Charles Goldfarb","startTime":33.72,"endTime":37.23,"body":"three years today, since the"},{"speaker":"Charles Goldfarb","startTime":37.23,"endTime":38.37,"body":"pandemic was declared."},{"speaker":"Chris Dy","startTime":38.43,"endTime":41.61,"body":"Are you serious? Wow."},{"speaker":"Chris Dy","startTime":38.43,"endTime":41.61,"body":"Okay. All right. Well, you know,"},{"speaker":"Chris Dy","startTime":41.64,"endTime":44.88,"body":"so we are in person because we"},{"speaker":"Chris Dy","startTime":41.64,"endTime":44.88,"body":"are, of course, meeting in"},{"speaker":"Chris Dy","startTime":44.88,"endTime":47.1,"body":"person that takes us a trip to"},{"speaker":"Chris Dy","startTime":44.88,"endTime":47.1,"body":"Las Vegas."},{"speaker":"Charles Goldfarb","startTime":47.88,"endTime":50.28,"body":"It is a little"},{"speaker":"Charles Goldfarb","startTime":47.88,"endTime":50.28,"body":"odd is a little odd, but it is"},{"speaker":"Charles Goldfarb","startTime":50.28,"endTime":51.0,"body":"nice to see you"},{"speaker":"Chris Dy","startTime":51.18,"endTime":53.4,"body":"there. Well, I agree."},{"speaker":"Chris Dy","startTime":51.18,"endTime":53.4,"body":"And there are a number of times"},{"speaker":"Chris Dy","startTime":53.4,"endTime":56.16,"body":"where I've had to go out of town"},{"speaker":"Chris Dy","startTime":53.4,"endTime":56.16,"body":"to meet with people that are"},{"speaker":"Chris Dy","startTime":56.16,"endTime":58.8,"body":"from St. Louis. So most"},{"speaker":"Chris Dy","startTime":56.16,"endTime":58.8,"body":"recently, I met with Dr."},{"speaker":"Chris Dy","startTime":58.8,"endTime":62.58,"body":"MacKinnon when we were both in"},{"speaker":"Chris Dy","startTime":58.8,"endTime":62.58,"body":"Miami for the ASPS and just"},{"speaker":"Chris Dy","startTime":62.58,"endTime":65.34,"body":"because it was easier. We're not"},{"speaker":"Chris Dy","startTime":62.58,"endTime":65.34,"body":"you know, pulled in different"},{"speaker":"Chris Dy","startTime":65.34,"endTime":66.15,"body":"directions usually."},{"speaker":"Charles Goldfarb","startTime":66.18,"endTime":68.34,"body":"Yeah, it is"},{"speaker":"Charles Goldfarb","startTime":66.18,"endTime":68.34,"body":"crazy. It is crazy. And speaking"},{"speaker":"Charles Goldfarb","startTime":68.34,"endTime":70.05,"body":"of crazy, Vegas is crazy."},{"speaker":"Chris Dy","startTime":70.08,"endTime":73.53,"body":"He gets this weird. It"},{"speaker":"Chris Dy","startTime":70.08,"endTime":73.53,"body":"is it is a weird place. You"},{"speaker":"Chris Dy","startTime":73.53,"endTime":76.38,"body":"know, first off, it's, I guess"},{"speaker":"Chris Dy","startTime":73.53,"endTime":76.38,"body":"my third day in Vegas now. And"},{"speaker":"Chris Dy","startTime":76.38,"endTime":78.9,"body":"I'm finally used to walk in the"},{"speaker":"Chris Dy","startTime":76.38,"endTime":78.9,"body":"strip again, trying to figure"},{"speaker":"Chris Dy","startTime":78.9,"endTime":81.99,"body":"out like the ins and outs of it"},{"speaker":"Chris Dy","startTime":78.9,"endTime":81.99,"body":"because you look at you know,"},{"speaker":"Chris Dy","startTime":82.2,"endTime":84.96,"body":"point to point on a map going"},{"speaker":"Chris Dy","startTime":82.2,"endTime":84.96,"body":"from point A to point B it"},{"speaker":"Chris Dy","startTime":84.96,"endTime":87.75,"body":"should not be maybe a long walk"},{"speaker":"Chris Dy","startTime":84.96,"endTime":87.75,"body":"but it shouldn't be that"},{"speaker":"Chris Dy","startTime":87.75,"endTime":90.75,"body":"challenging. But rightfully so"},{"speaker":"Chris Dy","startTime":87.75,"endTime":90.75,"body":"they have closed a lot of"},{"speaker":"Chris Dy","startTime":90.75,"endTime":93.93,"body":"pedestrian intersections. So you"},{"speaker":"Chris Dy","startTime":90.75,"endTime":93.93,"body":"have to navigate all these"},{"speaker":"Chris Dy","startTime":94.11,"endTime":96.3,"body":"bridges, and you don't always"},{"speaker":"Chris Dy","startTime":94.11,"endTime":96.3,"body":"get it right."},{"speaker":"Charles Goldfarb","startTime":96.75,"endTime":99.33,"body":"No and you"},{"speaker":"Charles Goldfarb","startTime":96.75,"endTime":99.33,"body":"know this town for I'm sure many"},{"speaker":"Charles Goldfarb","startTime":99.33,"endTime":101.67,"body":"of our listeners know this down."},{"speaker":"Charles Goldfarb","startTime":99.33,"endTime":101.67,"body":"But if you don't know this town,"},{"speaker":"Charles Goldfarb","startTime":101.7,"endTime":105.75,"body":"it is designed with one goal in"},{"speaker":"Charles Goldfarb","startTime":101.7,"endTime":105.75,"body":"mind for you never to leave your"},{"speaker":"Charles Goldfarb","startTime":105.75,"endTime":109.8,"body":"hotel. And from the you know,"},{"speaker":"Charles Goldfarb","startTime":105.75,"endTime":109.8,"body":"the murals on the ceiling that"},{"speaker":"Charles Goldfarb","startTime":109.8,"endTime":113.49,"body":"make it look like it's light"},{"speaker":"Charles Goldfarb","startTime":109.8,"endTime":113.49,"body":"outside. It's really incredible."},{"speaker":"Charles Goldfarb","startTime":113.73,"endTime":118.83,"body":"The number the operational"},{"speaker":"Charles Goldfarb","startTime":113.73,"endTime":118.83,"body":"excellence of these massive"},{"speaker":"Charles Goldfarb","startTime":118.83,"endTime":120.36,"body":"hotels is mind boggling."},{"speaker":"Chris Dy","startTime":120.72,"endTime":122.88,"body":"You know, they, they"},{"speaker":"Chris Dy","startTime":120.72,"endTime":122.88,"body":"really have it down to a"},{"speaker":"Chris Dy","startTime":122.88,"endTime":127.08,"body":"science. They get you to stay"},{"speaker":"Chris Dy","startTime":122.88,"endTime":127.08,"body":"where where they want you to"},{"speaker":"Chris Dy","startTime":127.08,"endTime":129.54,"body":"stay in. It's amazing how much"},{"speaker":"Chris Dy","startTime":127.08,"endTime":129.54,"body":"money they make. I was talking"},{"speaker":"Chris Dy","startTime":129.54,"endTime":132.12,"body":"to somebody who lives in Las"},{"speaker":"Chris Dy","startTime":129.54,"endTime":132.12,"body":"Vegas, and they're saying even"},{"speaker":"Chris Dy","startTime":132.12,"endTime":134.52,"body":"during the pandemic, they made a"},{"speaker":"Chris Dy","startTime":132.12,"endTime":134.52,"body":"lot of money. They just made"},{"speaker":"Chris Dy","startTime":134.52,"endTime":135.09,"body":"less money."},{"speaker":"Charles Goldfarb","startTime":135.84,"endTime":138.3,"body":"I can't I"},{"speaker":"Charles Goldfarb","startTime":135.84,"endTime":138.3,"body":"can't even relate what I can"},{"speaker":"Charles Goldfarb","startTime":138.3,"endTime":141.42,"body":"relate to. And you and I briefly"},{"speaker":"Charles Goldfarb","startTime":138.3,"endTime":141.42,"body":"talked about this is because the"},{"speaker":"Charles Goldfarb","startTime":141.42,"endTime":144.69,"body":"time change, I got up super"},{"speaker":"Charles Goldfarb","startTime":141.42,"endTime":144.69,"body":"early and went and worked out"},{"speaker":"Charles Goldfarb","startTime":144.69,"endTime":147.78,"body":"which was delightful. And I"},{"speaker":"Charles Goldfarb","startTime":144.69,"endTime":147.78,"body":"jumped on the peloton and I had"},{"speaker":"Charles Goldfarb","startTime":147.78,"endTime":152.4,"body":"to ask your experienced advice"},{"speaker":"Charles Goldfarb","startTime":147.78,"endTime":152.4,"body":"because I set a PR and I didn't"},{"speaker":"Charles Goldfarb","startTime":152.4,"endTime":155.28,"body":"feel that great. What I blew"},{"speaker":"Charles Goldfarb","startTime":152.4,"endTime":155.28,"body":"away most of the yarn. I just"},{"speaker":"Charles Goldfarb","startTime":155.28,"endTime":158.04,"body":"didn't understand her. All bikes"},{"speaker":"Charles Goldfarb","startTime":155.28,"endTime":158.04,"body":"created equal."},{"speaker":"Chris Dy","startTime":158.22,"endTime":160.44,"body":"Some bikes. Some bikes"},{"speaker":"Chris Dy","startTime":158.22,"endTime":160.44,"body":"are rigged. So they're the"},{"speaker":"Chris Dy","startTime":160.44,"endTime":163.89,"body":"people that have these bikes, I"},{"speaker":"Chris Dy","startTime":160.44,"endTime":163.89,"body":"swear and I've talked to Tony"},{"speaker":"Chris Dy","startTime":163.89,"endTime":166.53,"body":"Loggly you're listening. You're"},{"speaker":"Chris Dy","startTime":163.89,"endTime":166.53,"body":"you were at Mayo, and we talked"},{"speaker":"Chris Dy","startTime":166.53,"endTime":168.42,"body":"about this, I think you're doing"},{"speaker":"Chris Dy","startTime":166.53,"endTime":168.42,"body":"you're wrapping up your"},{"speaker":"Chris Dy","startTime":168.42,"endTime":171.12,"body":"fellowship now. But we talked"},{"speaker":"Chris Dy","startTime":168.42,"endTime":171.12,"body":"about this, there are certain"},{"speaker":"Chris Dy","startTime":171.12,"endTime":174.57,"body":"bikes that are rigged that are"},{"speaker":"Chris Dy","startTime":171.12,"endTime":174.57,"body":"far from being calibrated"},{"speaker":"Chris Dy","startTime":174.57,"endTime":177.15,"body":"correctly. And I'm not saying"},{"speaker":"Chris Dy","startTime":174.57,"endTime":177.15,"body":"that I'm like very skilled at"},{"speaker":"Chris Dy","startTime":177.18,"endTime":178.83,"body":"that this whole thing, but"},{"speaker":"Chris Dy","startTime":177.18,"endTime":178.83,"body":"there's some people that have"},{"speaker":"Chris Dy","startTime":178.83,"endTime":182.58,"body":"outputs that are absolutely"},{"speaker":"Chris Dy","startTime":178.83,"endTime":182.58,"body":"insane. So yes, I think there"},{"speaker":"Chris Dy","startTime":182.58,"endTime":185.13,"body":"are some bikes that are not"},{"speaker":"Chris Dy","startTime":182.58,"endTime":185.13,"body":"calibrated properly. And"},{"speaker":"Chris Dy","startTime":185.13,"endTime":187.71,"body":"probably the hotel bike isn't"},{"speaker":"Chris Dy","startTime":185.13,"endTime":187.71,"body":"calibrated perfectly. But that"},{"speaker":"Chris Dy","startTime":187.71,"endTime":190.77,"body":"being said, congrats. You were"},{"speaker":"Chris Dy","startTime":187.71,"endTime":190.77,"body":"feeling good. You got a PR, you"},{"speaker":"Chris Dy","startTime":190.77,"endTime":193.86,"body":"know, don't you didn't you"},{"speaker":"Chris Dy","startTime":190.77,"endTime":193.86,"body":"didn't set out to rig the"},{"speaker":"Chris Dy","startTime":193.86,"endTime":195.09,"body":"system, so it's okay,"},{"speaker":"Charles Goldfarb","startTime":195.12,"endTime":197.16,"body":"no, and I got"},{"speaker":"Charles Goldfarb","startTime":195.12,"endTime":197.16,"body":"my workout and I'm gonna walk"},{"speaker":"Charles Goldfarb","startTime":197.16,"endTime":199.62,"body":"away with positive vibes about"},{"speaker":"Charles Goldfarb","startTime":197.16,"endTime":199.62,"body":"my hotel, which maybe that was"},{"speaker":"Charles Goldfarb","startTime":199.62,"endTime":200.01,"body":"the goal."},{"speaker":"Chris Dy","startTime":200.04,"endTime":202.95,"body":"Exactly, exactly."},{"speaker":"Chris Dy","startTime":200.04,"endTime":202.95,"body":"Well, so my hotel unlike when we"},{"speaker":"Chris Dy","startTime":202.95,"endTime":205.47,"body":"were in Boston for the"},{"speaker":"Chris Dy","startTime":202.95,"endTime":205.47,"body":"association doesn't have the"},{"speaker":"Chris Dy","startTime":205.5,"endTime":208.95,"body":"peloton setup but they do have"},{"speaker":"Chris Dy","startTime":205.5,"endTime":208.95,"body":"two different gyms. Okay, so"},{"speaker":"Chris Dy","startTime":208.95,"endTime":212.37,"body":"they have a gym that's open from"},{"speaker":"Chris Dy","startTime":208.95,"endTime":212.37,"body":"6am to 6pm. And then they have"},{"speaker":"Chris Dy","startTime":212.37,"endTime":215.61,"body":"the 24 hour gym, which of course"},{"speaker":"Chris Dy","startTime":212.37,"endTime":215.61,"body":"isn't a separate tower. And you"},{"speaker":"Chris Dy","startTime":215.61,"endTime":218.82,"body":"have to walk cross the casino"},{"speaker":"Chris Dy","startTime":215.61,"endTime":218.82,"body":"floor to get to it. So I'm"},{"speaker":"Chris Dy","startTime":218.82,"endTime":221.97,"body":"walking around at 430 in the"},{"speaker":"Chris Dy","startTime":218.82,"endTime":221.97,"body":"morning, like that, because of"},{"speaker":"Chris Dy","startTime":221.97,"endTime":225.63,"body":"the time difference. And it's"},{"speaker":"Chris Dy","startTime":221.97,"endTime":225.63,"body":"just so interesting. You've got"},{"speaker":"Chris Dy","startTime":225.66,"endTime":227.85,"body":"a couple of people that are up"},{"speaker":"Chris Dy","startTime":225.66,"endTime":227.85,"body":"getting coffee getting ready for"},{"speaker":"Chris Dy","startTime":227.85,"endTime":230.34,"body":"the day, probably because"},{"speaker":"Chris Dy","startTime":227.85,"endTime":230.34,"body":"they're east coasters. And then"},{"speaker":"Chris Dy","startTime":230.34,"endTime":232.89,"body":"you've got people that are still"},{"speaker":"Chris Dy","startTime":230.34,"endTime":232.89,"body":"out still having a good time the"},{"speaker":"Chris Dy","startTime":232.89,"endTime":236.67,"body":"bar had a few people in it and"},{"speaker":"Chris Dy","startTime":232.89,"endTime":236.67,"body":"you know Saygus Yeah, it"},{"speaker":"Charles Goldfarb","startTime":236.67,"endTime":238.47,"body":"is. It is"},{"speaker":"Charles Goldfarb","startTime":236.67,"endTime":238.47,"body":"something there were some there"},{"speaker":"Charles Goldfarb","startTime":238.47,"endTime":242.13,"body":"are some dancing and celebrating"},{"speaker":"Charles Goldfarb","startTime":238.47,"endTime":242.13,"body":"going on in the casino at 5am."},{"speaker":"Charles Goldfarb","startTime":242.16,"endTime":246.09,"body":"And I admire the people who have"},{"speaker":"Charles Goldfarb","startTime":242.16,"endTime":246.09,"body":"that kind of endurance. Yes,"},{"speaker":"Charles Goldfarb","startTime":246.09,"endTime":247.08,"body":"yes. And money."},{"speaker":"Chris Dy","startTime":247.56,"endTime":250.74,"body":"Exactly. So you know,"},{"speaker":"Chris Dy","startTime":247.56,"endTime":250.74,"body":"Las Vegas has been interesting."},{"speaker":"Chris Dy","startTime":250.74,"endTime":254.76,"body":"I got to spend a an afternoon"},{"speaker":"Chris Dy","startTime":250.74,"endTime":254.76,"body":"with Dr. Lee Dellon, who was"},{"speaker":"Chris Dy","startTime":254.76,"endTime":256.53,"body":"kind enough to be interviewed"},{"speaker":"Chris Dy","startTime":254.76,"endTime":256.53,"body":"for the podcast."},{"speaker":"Charles Goldfarb","startTime":256.709,"endTime":259.019,"body":"That is"},{"speaker":"Charles Goldfarb","startTime":256.709,"endTime":259.019,"body":"incredible. I know Dr. Dellon"},{"speaker":"Charles Goldfarb","startTime":259.019,"endTime":262.259,"body":"shared some wisdom and shared"},{"speaker":"Charles Goldfarb","startTime":259.019,"endTime":262.259,"body":"some perspective. And I'm"},{"speaker":"Charles Goldfarb","startTime":262.259,"endTime":265.709,"body":"guessing he has strong opinions"},{"speaker":"Charles Goldfarb","startTime":262.259,"endTime":265.709,"body":"about things which I would"},{"speaker":"Charles Goldfarb","startTime":265.709,"endTime":267.809,"body":"welcome and look forward to"},{"speaker":"Charles Goldfarb","startTime":265.709,"endTime":267.809,"body":"hearing. Yeah, so"},{"speaker":"Chris Dy","startTime":267.84,"endTime":270.48,"body":"you know, the rest of"},{"speaker":"Chris Dy","startTime":267.84,"endTime":270.48,"body":"the episode is going to be going"},{"speaker":"Chris Dy","startTime":270.48,"endTime":274.35,"body":"to be focused on on my time with"},{"speaker":"Chris Dy","startTime":270.48,"endTime":274.35,"body":"Dr. Dellon. I will say that I"},{"speaker":"Chris Dy","startTime":274.35,"endTime":277.17,"body":"hung out with him, you know, for"},{"speaker":"Chris Dy","startTime":274.35,"endTime":277.17,"body":"an hour or so before the the"},{"speaker":"Chris Dy","startTime":277.17,"endTime":279.96,"body":"interview and it was super"},{"speaker":"Chris Dy","startTime":277.17,"endTime":279.96,"body":"interesting, really fun. And"},{"speaker":"Chris Dy","startTime":279.96,"endTime":283.08,"body":"then after the interview, he was"},{"speaker":"Chris Dy","startTime":279.96,"endTime":283.08,"body":"kind enough to drive me back"},{"speaker":"Chris Dy","startTime":283.5,"endTime":287.58,"body":"back to the strip. So I'm in I"},{"speaker":"Chris Dy","startTime":283.5,"endTime":287.58,"body":"was sitting in Lee Dellon, You"},{"speaker":"Chris Dy","startTime":287.58,"endTime":291.42,"body":"know, blue Thunderbird top down,"},{"speaker":"Chris Dy","startTime":287.58,"endTime":291.42,"body":"come to back to the strip. It's"},{"speaker":"Chris Dy","startTime":291.42,"endTime":295.2,"body":"unreal. Live in the Vegas dream."},{"speaker":"Chris Dy","startTime":291.42,"endTime":295.2,"body":"But before I introduce Dr."},{"speaker":"Chris Dy","startTime":295.2,"endTime":297.75,"body":"Dellon, we probably should"},{"speaker":"Chris Dy","startTime":295.2,"endTime":297.75,"body":"acknowledge our our kind"},{"speaker":"Chris Dy","startTime":298.02,"endTime":299.34,"body":"sponsors from practice like"},{"speaker":"Charles Goldfarb","startTime":299.4,"endTime":301.35,"body":"absolute The"},{"speaker":"Charles Goldfarb","startTime":299.4,"endTime":301.35,"body":"upper hand is sponsored by"},{"speaker":"Charles Goldfarb","startTime":301.35,"endTime":304.92,"body":"practice link.com, the most"},{"speaker":"Charles Goldfarb","startTime":301.35,"endTime":304.92,"body":"widely used physician job search"},{"speaker":"Charles Goldfarb","startTime":304.92,"endTime":307.05,"body":"and career advancement resource."},{"speaker":"Chris Dy","startTime":307.32,"endTime":309.81,"body":"Becoming a physician"},{"speaker":"Chris Dy","startTime":307.32,"endTime":309.81,"body":"is hard. But finding a job"},{"speaker":"Chris Dy","startTime":309.81,"endTime":312.96,"body":"doesn't have to be joined"},{"speaker":"Chris Dy","startTime":309.81,"endTime":312.96,"body":"practice link today for free"},{"speaker":"Chris Dy","startTime":313.38,"endTime":318.27,"body":"www.practicelink.com/"},{"speaker":"Chris Dy","startTime":313.38,"endTime":318.27,"body":"theupperhand. Excellent."},{"speaker":"Charles Goldfarb","startTime":318.27,"endTime":320.01,"body":"Lets jump into"},{"speaker":"Charles Goldfarb","startTime":318.27,"endTime":320.01,"body":"the interview."},{"speaker":"Chris Dy","startTime":320.04,"endTime":322.32,"body":"Yes, so I want to"},{"speaker":"Chris Dy","startTime":320.04,"endTime":322.32,"body":"introduce Dr. Dellon. He's"},{"speaker":"Chris Dy","startTime":322.32,"endTime":325.44,"body":"originally from the Bronx and"},{"speaker":"Chris Dy","startTime":322.32,"endTime":325.44,"body":"then found his way to do his"},{"speaker":"Chris Dy","startTime":325.44,"endTime":328.23,"body":"undergraduate studies at Johns"},{"speaker":"Chris Dy","startTime":325.44,"endTime":328.23,"body":"Hopkins and Baltimore. Some of"},{"speaker":"Chris Dy","startTime":328.23,"endTime":330.09,"body":"you may have heard of it,"},{"speaker":"Chris Dy","startTime":328.23,"endTime":330.09,"body":"especially the medical school"},{"speaker":"Chris Dy","startTime":330.09,"endTime":334.71,"body":"where he did his MD, spent some"},{"speaker":"Chris Dy","startTime":330.09,"endTime":334.71,"body":"time in the, in the Public"},{"speaker":"Chris Dy","startTime":334.71,"endTime":340.38,"body":"Health Service and did two years"},{"speaker":"Chris Dy","startTime":334.71,"endTime":340.38,"body":"of research at the NIH, and he"},{"speaker":"Chris Dy","startTime":340.38,"endTime":344.37,"body":"has some great stories about his"},{"speaker":"Chris Dy","startTime":340.38,"endTime":344.37,"body":"Primate Research at the NIH. He"},{"speaker":"Chris Dy","startTime":344.37,"endTime":348.21,"body":"subsequently was the first"},{"speaker":"Chris Dy","startTime":344.37,"endTime":348.21,"body":"fellow at the Curtis National"},{"speaker":"Chris Dy","startTime":348.21,"endTime":352.56,"body":"Hand Center, and then went on to"},{"speaker":"Chris Dy","startTime":348.21,"endTime":352.56,"body":"complete his plastics residency"},{"speaker":"Chris Dy","startTime":352.56,"endTime":356.22,"body":"at Hopkins, and then has been in"},{"speaker":"Chris Dy","startTime":352.56,"endTime":356.22,"body":"private practice at the Dellon"},{"speaker":"Chris Dy","startTime":356.25,"endTime":359.46,"body":"Peripheral Nerve Institute for"},{"speaker":"Chris Dy","startTime":356.25,"endTime":359.46,"body":"quite quite a long time and"},{"speaker":"Chris Dy","startTime":359.46,"endTime":364.8,"body":"recently retired. So Lee shared"},{"speaker":"Chris Dy","startTime":359.46,"endTime":364.8,"body":"a fantastic set of opinions"},{"speaker":"Chris Dy","startTime":364.8,"endTime":367.44,"body":"about a range of topics and also"},{"speaker":"Chris Dy","startTime":364.8,"endTime":367.44,"body":"talked about his newest"},{"speaker":"Chris Dy","startTime":367.44,"endTime":369.72,"body":"retirement project at the end."},{"speaker":"Chris Dy","startTime":367.44,"endTime":369.72,"body":"So you'll hear a little bit"},{"speaker":"Chris Dy","startTime":369.72,"endTime":372.12,"body":"about what surgeons do when they"},{"speaker":"Chris Dy","startTime":369.72,"endTime":372.12,"body":"retire."},{"speaker":"Charles Goldfarb","startTime":372.66,"endTime":375.51,"body":"Looking"},{"speaker":"Charles Goldfarb","startTime":372.66,"endTime":375.51,"body":"forward to it. Let's jump in. So"},{"speaker":"Chris Dy","startTime":375.51,"endTime":379.5,"body":"Dr. Dellon, you are"},{"speaker":"Chris Dy","startTime":375.51,"endTime":379.5,"body":"you have an incredible legacy in"},{"speaker":"Chris Dy","startTime":379.5,"endTime":382.41,"body":"peripheral nerve and you"},{"speaker":"Chris Dy","startTime":379.5,"endTime":382.41,"body":"continue to contribute to our"},{"speaker":"Chris Dy","startTime":382.41,"endTime":386.22,"body":"literature. One of our most"},{"speaker":"Chris Dy","startTime":382.41,"endTime":386.22,"body":"popular topics is something that"},{"speaker":"Chris Dy","startTime":386.22,"endTime":389.07,"body":"maybe is a little more"},{"speaker":"Chris Dy","startTime":386.22,"endTime":389.07,"body":"mainstream, but I wanted to get"},{"speaker":"Chris Dy","startTime":389.07,"endTime":392.28,"body":"your thoughts on how you"},{"speaker":"Chris Dy","startTime":389.07,"endTime":392.28,"body":"approach a patient currently"},{"speaker":"Chris Dy","startTime":392.28,"endTime":393.54,"body":"with cubital tunnel syndrome."},{"speaker":"Lee Dellon","startTime":397.05,"endTime":402.99,"body":"Okay, that's a very"},{"speaker":"Lee Dellon","startTime":397.05,"endTime":402.99,"body":"common problem and enhanced"},{"speaker":"Lee Dellon","startTime":403.02,"endTime":409.05,"body":"surgery. And when I started"},{"speaker":"Lee Dellon","startTime":403.02,"endTime":409.05,"body":"doing my hand fellowship, I"},{"speaker":"Lee Dellon","startTime":409.05,"endTime":412.38,"body":"would of course, see my my"},{"speaker":"Lee Dellon","startTime":409.05,"endTime":412.38,"body":"teachers that Curtis Hand"},{"speaker":"Lee Dellon","startTime":412.38,"endTime":417.42,"body":"Center, and they would palpate"},{"speaker":"Lee Dellon","startTime":412.38,"endTime":417.42,"body":"or tap over the ulnar nerve and"},{"speaker":"Lee Dellon","startTime":417.42,"endTime":423.24,"body":"the cubital tunnel is the"},{"speaker":"Lee Dellon","startTime":417.42,"endTime":423.24,"body":"operation they would do was a"},{"speaker":"Lee Dellon","startTime":423.24,"endTime":427.41,"body":"classic operation where the"},{"speaker":"Lee Dellon","startTime":423.24,"endTime":427.41,"body":"flexor pronator muscle mass was"},{"speaker":"Lee Dellon","startTime":427.41,"endTime":431.76,"body":"taken from the bone and then"},{"speaker":"Lee Dellon","startTime":427.41,"endTime":431.76,"body":"sutured back into place for an"},{"speaker":"Lee Dellon","startTime":431.76,"endTime":434.88,"body":"anterior so muscular"},{"speaker":"Lee Dellon","startTime":431.76,"endTime":434.88,"body":"transposition, if the nerve was"},{"speaker":"Lee Dellon","startTime":435.36,"endTime":438.42,"body":"pretty bad back then very few"},{"speaker":"Lee Dellon","startTime":435.36,"endTime":438.42,"body":"people were just doing insight"},{"speaker":"Lee Dellon","startTime":438.42,"endTime":442.35,"body":"to decompressions when I did the"},{"speaker":"Lee Dellon","startTime":438.42,"endTime":442.35,"body":"hand fellowship, the journal"},{"speaker":"Lee Dellon","startTime":442.35,"endTime":447.36,"body":"hand had just started. And early"},{"speaker":"Lee Dellon","startTime":442.35,"endTime":447.36,"body":"in their I think their first or"},{"speaker":"Lee Dellon","startTime":447.36,"endTime":451.32,"body":"second volume was born wrote"},{"speaker":"Lee Dellon","startTime":447.36,"endTime":451.32,"body":"his, his paper and prior to"},{"speaker":"Lee Dellon","startTime":451.32,"endTime":455.01,"body":"that, older nerve compression"},{"speaker":"Lee Dellon","startTime":451.32,"endTime":455.01,"body":"used to be called Post Traumatic"},{"speaker":"Lee Dellon","startTime":455.04,"endTime":459.87,"body":"owner, neuritis. And many people"},{"speaker":"Lee Dellon","startTime":455.04,"endTime":459.87,"body":"that had older nerve problems"},{"speaker":"Lee Dellon","startTime":459.87,"endTime":463.02,"body":"came because the orthopedic"},{"speaker":"Lee Dellon","startTime":459.87,"endTime":463.02,"body":"surgeons were not as good in"},{"speaker":"Lee Dellon","startTime":463.02,"endTime":466.44,"body":"either the elbow dislocations or"},{"speaker":"Lee Dellon","startTime":463.02,"endTime":466.44,"body":"fractures in and around the"},{"speaker":"Lee Dellon","startTime":466.44,"endTime":470.49,"body":"elbow. So when people had an"},{"speaker":"Lee Dellon","startTime":466.44,"endTime":470.49,"body":"older palsy, it was felt to be"},{"speaker":"Lee Dellon","startTime":470.49,"endTime":474.42,"body":"due to trauma, usually after an"},{"speaker":"Lee Dellon","startTime":470.49,"endTime":474.42,"body":"injury and usually after"},{"speaker":"Lee Dellon","startTime":474.42,"endTime":479.25,"body":"orthopedic work. So when I was"},{"speaker":"Lee Dellon","startTime":474.42,"endTime":479.25,"body":"born, operated on people who had"},{"speaker":"Lee Dellon","startTime":479.25,"endTime":483.51,"body":"not had trauma, he found this"},{"speaker":"Lee Dellon","startTime":479.25,"endTime":483.51,"body":"thin band that was going across"},{"speaker":"Lee Dellon","startTime":483.51,"endTime":486.99,"body":"the ulnar nerve near the medial"},{"speaker":"Lee Dellon","startTime":483.51,"endTime":486.99,"body":"umur, upper condyle. And in"},{"speaker":"Lee Dellon","startTime":487.02,"endTime":489.36,"body":"between when he after his"},{"speaker":"Lee Dellon","startTime":487.02,"endTime":489.36,"body":"writing in that article, which I"},{"speaker":"Lee Dellon","startTime":489.36,"endTime":494.64,"body":"think was maybe 1970 or 71 in"},{"speaker":"Lee Dellon","startTime":489.36,"endTime":494.64,"body":"the journal hand, not the"},{"speaker":"Lee Dellon","startTime":494.64,"endTime":498.18,"body":"Journal of hand surgery, the"},{"speaker":"Lee Dellon","startTime":494.64,"endTime":498.18,"body":"British Journal, it became"},{"speaker":"Lee Dellon","startTime":498.18,"endTime":503.64,"body":"called the Osborne's ligament."},{"speaker":"Lee Dellon","startTime":498.18,"endTime":503.64,"body":"And he had a classification of"},{"speaker":"Lee Dellon","startTime":503.64,"endTime":507.75,"body":"degree of how bad the nerve was"},{"speaker":"Lee Dellon","startTime":503.64,"endTime":507.75,"body":"impaired. And he would insist"},{"speaker":"Lee Dellon","startTime":507.75,"endTime":511.23,"body":"that even if people had almost"},{"speaker":"Lee Dellon","startTime":507.75,"endTime":511.23,"body":"no two point discrimination or"},{"speaker":"Lee Dellon","startTime":511.53,"endTime":514.53,"body":"muscle wasting, he could get a"},{"speaker":"Lee Dellon","startTime":511.53,"endTime":514.53,"body":"good result by just"},{"speaker":"Lee Dellon","startTime":514.65,"endTime":519.15,"body":"decompressing the nerve and"},{"speaker":"Lee Dellon","startTime":514.65,"endTime":519.15,"body":"dividing that ban. But pretty"},{"speaker":"Lee Dellon","startTime":519.15,"endTime":522.72,"body":"much throughout my training, if"},{"speaker":"Lee Dellon","startTime":519.15,"endTime":522.72,"body":"people had muscle wasting and no"},{"speaker":"Lee Dellon","startTime":522.72,"endTime":526.62,"body":"two point discrimination, the"},{"speaker":"Lee Dellon","startTime":522.72,"endTime":526.62,"body":"nerve was felt to be too far"},{"speaker":"Lee Dellon","startTime":526.92,"endTime":529.98,"body":"advanced to just release"},{"speaker":"Lee Dellon","startTime":526.92,"endTime":529.98,"body":"Osbornes bans and the nerve was"},{"speaker":"Lee Dellon","startTime":529.98,"endTime":534.21,"body":"moved anteriorly. And when I"},{"speaker":"Lee Dellon","startTime":529.98,"endTime":534.21,"body":"watched my teachers do that"},{"speaker":"Lee Dellon","startTime":534.21,"endTime":538.02,"body":"operation, they had to bend the"},{"speaker":"Lee Dellon","startTime":534.21,"endTime":538.02,"body":"wrist down and flex the elbow to"},{"speaker":"Lee Dellon","startTime":538.02,"endTime":542.76,"body":"really get the flexor pronator"},{"speaker":"Lee Dellon","startTime":538.02,"endTime":542.76,"body":"muscle mass to in a position"},{"speaker":"Lee Dellon","startTime":542.76,"endTime":546.39,"body":"where they could reattach it to"},{"speaker":"Lee Dellon","startTime":542.76,"endTime":546.39,"body":"the bone. And then in the post"},{"speaker":"Lee Dellon","startTime":546.39,"endTime":549.69,"body":"operative period, they would"},{"speaker":"Lee Dellon","startTime":546.39,"endTime":549.69,"body":"slowly stretch out the elbow and"},{"speaker":"Lee Dellon","startTime":549.69,"endTime":554.7,"body":"stretch out the wrist. And to me"},{"speaker":"Lee Dellon","startTime":549.69,"endTime":554.7,"body":"that just seemed to be not the"},{"speaker":"Lee Dellon","startTime":554.7,"endTime":559.53,"body":"best way to do that. And so I"},{"speaker":"Lee Dellon","startTime":554.7,"endTime":559.53,"body":"came up with the idea. Enhanced"},{"speaker":"Lee Dellon","startTime":559.53,"endTime":564.36,"body":"surgery we know very well about"},{"speaker":"Lee Dellon","startTime":559.53,"endTime":564.36,"body":"doing Z plastic isn't primarily"},{"speaker":"Lee Dellon","startTime":564.36,"endTime":567.39,"body":"for tendon lengthening,"},{"speaker":"Lee Dellon","startTime":564.36,"endTime":567.39,"body":"lengthening and I thought why"},{"speaker":"Lee Dellon","startTime":567.39,"endTime":572.4,"body":"not lengthen the flexion"},{"speaker":"Lee Dellon","startTime":567.39,"endTime":572.4,"body":"pronator muscle mass and there"},{"speaker":"Lee Dellon","startTime":572.4,"endTime":574.92,"body":"was an old operation that was"},{"speaker":"Lee Dellon","startTime":572.4,"endTime":574.92,"body":"done for the cerebral palsy"},{"speaker":"Lee Dellon","startTime":574.92,"endTime":579.21,"body":"children where it was a complete"},{"speaker":"Lee Dellon","startTime":574.92,"endTime":579.21,"body":"flexor pronator muscle slide"},{"speaker":"Lee Dellon","startTime":579.21,"endTime":584.16,"body":"there was even a CPT code for a"},{"speaker":"Lee Dellon","startTime":579.21,"endTime":584.16,"body":"muscle slide. So I thought huh,"},{"speaker":"Lee Dellon","startTime":584.85,"endTime":588.9,"body":"but all the muscles that we are"},{"speaker":"Lee Dellon","startTime":584.85,"endTime":588.9,"body":"going to lengthen in the flexor"},{"speaker":"Lee Dellon","startTime":588.9,"endTime":593.07,"body":"pronator muscle mass have"},{"speaker":"Lee Dellon","startTime":588.9,"endTime":593.07,"body":"secondary origins usually in the"},{"speaker":"Lee Dellon","startTime":593.07,"endTime":596.76,"body":"interosseous membrane or on the"},{"speaker":"Lee Dellon","startTime":593.07,"endTime":596.76,"body":"bone. And so I could do the"},{"speaker":"Lee Dellon","startTime":596.76,"endTime":600.3,"body":"lengthening and the flexor"},{"speaker":"Lee Dellon","startTime":596.76,"endTime":600.3,"body":"pronator muscle mass itself. and"},{"speaker":"Lee Dellon","startTime":600.3,"endTime":603.75,"body":"not have a great loss of"},{"speaker":"Lee Dellon","startTime":600.3,"endTime":603.75,"body":"strength in the patient after"},{"speaker":"Lee Dellon","startTime":603.75,"endTime":608.88,"body":"surgery. And so I introduced the"},{"speaker":"Lee Dellon","startTime":603.75,"endTime":608.88,"body":"flexor pronator, or muscles"},{"speaker":"Lee Dellon","startTime":608.88,"endTime":613.56,"body":"slide, Z plasty lengthening,"},{"speaker":"Lee Dellon","startTime":608.88,"endTime":613.56,"body":"whichever you'd like to call it,"},{"speaker":"Lee Dellon","startTime":613.56,"endTime":618.24,"body":"and I made an actual Z. And"},{"speaker":"Lee Dellon","startTime":613.56,"endTime":618.24,"body":"Susan MacKinnon became our hand"},{"speaker":"Lee Dellon","startTime":618.24,"endTime":623.31,"body":"fellow in 1981, to 82. And she"},{"speaker":"Lee Dellon","startTime":618.24,"endTime":623.31,"body":"learned that procedure for me,"},{"speaker":"Lee Dellon","startTime":623.31,"endTime":628.05,"body":"and she's modified it slightly"},{"speaker":"Lee Dellon","startTime":623.31,"endTime":628.05,"body":"with the shape of her incision."},{"speaker":"Lee Dellon","startTime":629.01,"endTime":633.84,"body":"But that was essentially my"},{"speaker":"Lee Dellon","startTime":629.01,"endTime":633.84,"body":"excuse me approach. And at the"},{"speaker":"Lee Dellon","startTime":633.84,"endTime":638.79,"body":"time I did this. People trying"},{"speaker":"Lee Dellon","startTime":633.84,"endTime":638.79,"body":"to write the results of ulnar"},{"speaker":"Lee Dellon","startTime":638.79,"endTime":644.25,"body":"nerve surgery, just would lump"},{"speaker":"Lee Dellon","startTime":638.79,"endTime":644.25,"body":"all owner nerve patients"},{"speaker":"Lee Dellon","startTime":644.25,"endTime":648.6,"body":"together. And so my paper in"},{"speaker":"Lee Dellon","startTime":644.25,"endTime":648.6,"body":"1985 was the first what we would"},{"speaker":"Lee Dellon","startTime":648.6,"endTime":652.89,"body":"now call a systematic or meta"},{"speaker":"Lee Dellon","startTime":648.6,"endTime":652.89,"body":"analysis, I took every paper"},{"speaker":"Lee Dellon","startTime":652.95,"endTime":659.55,"body":"written on the owner nerve, and"},{"speaker":"Lee Dellon","startTime":652.95,"endTime":659.55,"body":"tried to classify each patient"},{"speaker":"Lee Dellon","startTime":659.88,"endTime":663.39,"body":"according to the degree of a"},{"speaker":"Lee Dellon","startTime":659.88,"endTime":663.39,"body":"nerve compression. And even at"},{"speaker":"Lee Dellon","startTime":663.39,"endTime":667.02,"body":"that time, we just did it to"},{"speaker":"Lee Dellon","startTime":663.39,"endTime":667.02,"body":"minimal, moderate and severe,"},{"speaker":"Lee Dellon","startTime":667.02,"endTime":670.86,"body":"the severe course would be the"},{"speaker":"Lee Dellon","startTime":667.02,"endTime":670.86,"body":"muscle wasting at no two point"},{"speaker":"Lee Dellon","startTime":670.86,"endTime":674.43,"body":"discrimination. And the minimum"},{"speaker":"Lee Dellon","startTime":670.86,"endTime":674.43,"body":"one would be um, symptoms"},{"speaker":"Lee Dellon","startTime":674.43,"endTime":677.31,"body":"without any objective other"},{"speaker":"Lee Dellon","startTime":674.43,"endTime":677.31,"body":"findings, but all with a"},{"speaker":"Lee Dellon","startTime":677.58,"endTime":682.92,"body":"positive tonnelle sign. And so I"},{"speaker":"Lee Dellon","startTime":677.58,"endTime":682.92,"body":"took those older nerve papers,"},{"speaker":"Lee Dellon","startTime":684.12,"endTime":687.96,"body":"broke each one each patient"},{"speaker":"Lee Dellon","startTime":684.12,"endTime":687.96,"body":"group down where I could, and"},{"speaker":"Lee Dellon","startTime":687.96,"endTime":691.29,"body":"then did what today we call a"},{"speaker":"Lee Dellon","startTime":687.96,"endTime":691.29,"body":"meta analysis that was never"},{"speaker":"Lee Dellon","startTime":691.29,"endTime":694.74,"body":"called that back then. But you"},{"speaker":"Lee Dellon","startTime":691.29,"endTime":694.74,"body":"could look at that and then see"},{"speaker":"Lee Dellon","startTime":694.77,"endTime":699.45,"body":"what to expect from doing an"},{"speaker":"Lee Dellon","startTime":694.77,"endTime":699.45,"body":"anterior subcutaneous or some"},{"speaker":"Lee Dellon","startTime":699.45,"endTime":702.51,"body":"muscular or an insight to"},{"speaker":"Lee Dellon","startTime":699.45,"endTime":702.51,"body":"decompression for minimal,"},{"speaker":"Lee Dellon","startTime":702.51,"endTime":707.61,"body":"moderate or severe degree. And"},{"speaker":"Lee Dellon","startTime":702.51,"endTime":707.61,"body":"that was my involvement with"},{"speaker":"Lee Dellon","startTime":707.61,"endTime":709.92,"body":"that early in my hand surgery"},{"speaker":"Lee Dellon","startTime":707.61,"endTime":709.92,"body":"career."},{"speaker":"Chris Dy","startTime":710.61,"endTime":713.1,"body":"That's incredible to"},{"speaker":"Chris Dy","startTime":710.61,"endTime":713.1,"body":"hear how that's evolved, because"},{"speaker":"Chris Dy","startTime":713.1,"endTime":716.16,"body":"I think so many of us have"},{"speaker":"Chris Dy","startTime":713.1,"endTime":716.16,"body":"learned that surgery especially"},{"speaker":"Chris Dy","startTime":716.16,"endTime":720.72,"body":"with with Dr. McKinnon's videos"},{"speaker":"Chris Dy","startTime":716.16,"endTime":720.72,"body":"and the reach that her education"},{"speaker":"Chris Dy","startTime":720.99,"endTime":724.41,"body":"efforts have had, so it's great"},{"speaker":"Chris Dy","startTime":720.99,"endTime":724.41,"body":"to hear how that has evolved."},{"speaker":"Chris Dy","startTime":725.16,"endTime":727.86,"body":"One question for you. Do you"},{"speaker":"Chris Dy","startTime":725.16,"endTime":727.86,"body":"think that that patient with"},{"speaker":"Chris Dy","startTime":727.86,"endTime":732.3,"body":"severe compression with the"},{"speaker":"Chris Dy","startTime":727.86,"endTime":732.3,"body":"atrophy and the loss of two"},{"speaker":"Chris Dy","startTime":732.3,"endTime":734.64,"body":"point can that can that nerve be"},{"speaker":"Chris Dy","startTime":732.3,"endTime":734.64,"body":"salvaged?"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":738.42,"endTime":740.34,"body":"I don't mean to say it"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":738.42,"endTime":740.34,"body":"this way, but I don't think you"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":740.34,"endTime":741.87,"body":"meant can the nerve be salvaged?"},{"speaker":"Chris Dy","startTime":741.99,"endTime":746.28,"body":"Okay, can can there be"},{"speaker":"Chris Dy","startTime":741.99,"endTime":746.28,"body":"restoration of muscle strength?"},{"speaker":"Chris Dy","startTime":746.28,"endTime":749.16,"body":"Or can there be restoration of"},{"speaker":"Chris Dy","startTime":746.28,"endTime":749.16,"body":"meaningful sensibility?"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":749.58,"endTime":754.17,"body":"Okay, so a wasted"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":749.58,"endTime":754.17,"body":"muscle, even if it doesn't"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":754.17,"endTime":759.93,"body":"regain bulk can regain strength."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":754.17,"endTime":759.93,"body":"But it's limited. I'll never be"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":759.93,"endTime":764.07,"body":"back to what it was. But you can"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":759.93,"endTime":764.07,"body":"take someone who has a muscle"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":764.07,"endTime":769.65,"body":"that's wasting that's a year or"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":764.07,"endTime":769.65,"body":"two with that. And you can get"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":769.65,"endTime":772.86,"body":"some strength back in it but it"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":769.65,"endTime":772.86,"body":"but it isn't good. It doesn't"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":772.86,"endTime":776.25,"body":"ever get back to M fiver and"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":772.86,"endTime":776.25,"body":"make it back to M three plus or"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":776.25,"endTime":781.38,"body":"maybe an M four but it's"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":776.25,"endTime":781.38,"body":"certainly worth doing the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":781.38,"endTime":782.22,"body":"decompression"},{"speaker":"Chris Dy","startTime":782.76,"endTime":786.39,"body":"and is your approach"},{"speaker":"Chris Dy","startTime":782.76,"endTime":786.39,"body":"to doing a transposition the"},{"speaker":"Chris Dy","startTime":786.39,"endTime":790.8,"body":"same now you know if you were to"},{"speaker":"Chris Dy","startTime":786.39,"endTime":790.8,"body":"have done this surgery recently"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":790.0,"endTime":800.92,"body":"what I what I did"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":790.0,"endTime":800.92,"body":"change was I would I want to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":800.92,"endTime":804.58,"body":"mention Leonard Goldner who is"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":800.92,"endTime":804.58,"body":"chief of Orthopedic Surgery at"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":804.58,"endTime":807.58,"body":"Duke and one of the American"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":804.58,"endTime":807.58,"body":"Society for Surgery, the hand"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":807.58,"endTime":812.17,"body":"meetings I gave an instructional"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":807.58,"endTime":812.17,"body":"course on older nerve surgery,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":812.59,"endTime":817.48,"body":"and I talked primarily about the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":812.59,"endTime":817.48,"body":"anterior semicircular"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":817.48,"endTime":822.22,"body":"transposition with the musculo"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":817.48,"endTime":822.22,"body":"tendon lengthening. And Dr."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":822.22,"endTime":826.27,"body":"Goldner got up and said that he"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":822.22,"endTime":826.27,"body":"never had to do had to do that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":826.27,"endTime":828.88,"body":"he would, but when he did have"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":826.27,"endTime":828.88,"body":"to do it, he would save it for"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":828.91,"endTime":833.5,"body":"previous failed cases. And I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":828.91,"endTime":833.5,"body":"made the point that Dr. Goldner"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":833.5,"endTime":840.7,"body":"has never forgiven me for bless"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":833.5,"endTime":840.7,"body":"his name. He got up and said Dr."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":840.7,"endTime":844.63,"body":"Goldner, I tried to do the best"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":840.7,"endTime":844.63,"body":"operation the first time, so"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":844.63,"endTime":848.5,"body":"that I would do an anterior"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":844.63,"endTime":848.5,"body":"muscular transposition, which"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":848.92,"endTime":854.29,"body":"had, it has some more morbidity"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":848.92,"endTime":854.29,"body":"than an insight to that the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":854.29,"endTime":857.53,"body":"patients are often bruised and"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":854.29,"endTime":857.53,"body":"they have to wait two or three"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":857.53,"endTime":861.25,"body":"weeks till they can really start"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":857.53,"endTime":861.25,"body":"to use strengthen their hand."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":861.61,"endTime":864.85,"body":"But then you know that every"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":861.61,"endTime":864.85,"body":"possible compression sign along"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":864.85,"endTime":868.6,"body":"the course of that nerve has"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":864.85,"endTime":868.6,"body":"been decompressed. And the way"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":868.6,"endTime":871.99,"body":"I'm finally modified, my"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":868.6,"endTime":871.99,"body":"algorithm was the person who was"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":871.99,"endTime":877.24,"body":"a piano player or guitar string"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":871.99,"endTime":877.24,"body":"instrument player, or of course"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":877.24,"endTime":881.32,"body":"a hand surgeon, where the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":877.24,"endTime":881.32,"body":"musculotendinous unit and"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":881.32,"endTime":887.53,"body":"strength and reflexes are so"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":881.32,"endTime":887.53,"body":"critical to what they do. I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":887.53,"endTime":889.99,"body":"would do an insight to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":887.53,"endTime":889.99,"body":"decompression if they didn't"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":890.02,"endTime":892.21,"body":"have loss of two point"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":890.02,"endTime":892.21,"body":"discrimination or muscle"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":892.21,"endTime":896.8,"body":"wasting, but I would tell them"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":892.21,"endTime":896.8,"body":"that there was a 5050 chance"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":896.8,"endTime":899.92,"body":"they might have to come back for"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":896.8,"endTime":899.92,"body":"me to move the nerve but I would"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":899.95,"endTime":902.26,"body":"Do the less invasive operation"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":899.95,"endTime":902.26,"body":"first."},{"speaker":"Chris Dy","startTime":903.34,"endTime":904.78,"body":"That's, that's"},{"speaker":"Chris Dy","startTime":903.34,"endTime":904.78,"body":"refreshing. Because I think"},{"speaker":"Chris Dy","startTime":904.78,"endTime":907.18,"body":"that, you know, this is a"},{"speaker":"Chris Dy","startTime":904.78,"endTime":907.18,"body":"popular topic among the people"},{"speaker":"Chris Dy","startTime":907.18,"endTime":909.4,"body":"that that listen to us. We have"},{"speaker":"Chris Dy","startTime":907.18,"endTime":909.4,"body":"a lot of therapists as well that"},{"speaker":"Chris Dy","startTime":909.4,"endTime":913.15,"body":"listen, on top of practicing"},{"speaker":"Chris Dy","startTime":909.4,"endTime":913.15,"body":"surgeons and trainees. And"},{"speaker":"Chris Dy","startTime":913.39,"endTime":917.95,"body":"that's a continued debate, so to"},{"speaker":"Chris Dy","startTime":913.39,"endTime":917.95,"body":"say, You've done an incredible"},{"speaker":"Chris Dy","startTime":917.95,"endTime":920.32,"body":"amount of work in your career."},{"speaker":"Chris Dy","startTime":917.95,"endTime":920.32,"body":"And I think one of the latest"},{"speaker":"Chris Dy","startTime":920.32,"endTime":923.44,"body":"arcs that you've had is to"},{"speaker":"Chris Dy","startTime":920.32,"endTime":923.44,"body":"really look at joint innovation,"},{"speaker":"Chris Dy","startTime":923.86,"endTime":928.6,"body":"and its role in our treatment of"},{"speaker":"Chris Dy","startTime":923.86,"endTime":928.6,"body":"things like arthritis. Can you"},{"speaker":"Chris Dy","startTime":928.6,"endTime":931.21,"body":"speak a little bit about how"},{"speaker":"Chris Dy","startTime":928.6,"endTime":931.21,"body":"that evolved over time?"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":932.56,"endTime":935.05,"body":"Yes, but before I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":932.56,"endTime":935.05,"body":"answer that, since you mentioned"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":935.05,"endTime":937.96,"body":"therapists, I think for the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":935.05,"endTime":937.96,"body":"person who has really advanced"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":937.99,"endTime":942.82,"body":"ulnar nerve compression at the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":937.99,"endTime":942.82,"body":"elbow, where you're concerned"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":942.85,"endTime":948.94,"body":"about whether the muscle will"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":942.85,"endTime":948.94,"body":"come back, you have the same"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":948.97,"endTime":953.68,"body":"type of argument you can make"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":948.97,"endTime":953.68,"body":"with regard to the radial nerve,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":953.68,"endTime":958.42,"body":"should you do some tendon work"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":953.68,"endTime":958.42,"body":"in terms of tendon transfers,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":958.75,"endTime":963.28,"body":"or, as Dr. McKinnon's group"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":958.75,"endTime":963.28,"body":"would do the emphasized taking"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":963.28,"endTime":966.91,"body":"the anterior interosseous nerve"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":963.28,"endTime":966.91,"body":"and transferring it into the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":966.91,"endTime":970.96,"body":"distal owner motor in addition"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":966.91,"endTime":970.96,"body":"to trying to do the proximal"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":971.23,"endTime":975.82,"body":"decompression. So you do have"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":971.23,"endTime":975.82,"body":"that today that we didn't used"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":975.82,"endTime":978.73,"body":"to be able to do if that's the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":975.82,"endTime":978.73,"body":"correct grammatical way to say"},{"speaker":"Chris Dy","startTime":980.2,"endTime":982.69,"body":"is that is that a"},{"speaker":"Chris Dy","startTime":980.2,"endTime":982.69,"body":"surgery that you have considered"},{"speaker":"Chris Dy","startTime":982.69,"endTime":984.01,"body":"adding to mattereum?"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":984.52,"endTime":987.67,"body":"I have to say I've only"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":984.52,"endTime":987.67,"body":"done for anterior interosseous"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":987.67,"endTime":990.94,"body":"nerves distally transferred into"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":987.67,"endTime":990.94,"body":"the distal owner nerve, and they"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":990.94,"endTime":996.04,"body":"haven't really worked well in my"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":990.94,"endTime":996.04,"body":"hands. But I know, Tommy Tong"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":996.04,"endTime":999.91,"body":"and Susan's group have several"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":996.04,"endTime":999.91,"body":"published papers about it. And"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":999.91,"endTime":1003.3,"body":"sometimes it does work, but it"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":999.91,"endTime":1003.3,"body":"didn't work very well, in my"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1003.3,"endTime":1005.61,"body":"limited experience. It is"},{"speaker":"Chris Dy","startTime":1005.61,"endTime":1008.34,"body":"something that is all"},{"speaker":"Chris Dy","startTime":1005.61,"endTime":1008.34,"body":"the rage nowadays. So yes, it"},{"speaker":"Chris Dy","startTime":1008.34,"endTime":1010.74,"body":"we'll see how things shake out"},{"speaker":"Chris Dy","startTime":1008.34,"endTime":1010.74,"body":"over time with that with that"},{"speaker":"Chris Dy","startTime":1010.74,"endTime":1011.31,"body":"transfer."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1011.73,"endTime":1015.33,"body":"Oh, I do want to say,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1011.73,"endTime":1015.33,"body":"one 110, an operation I invented"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1015.33,"endTime":1019.41,"body":"that is not well understood or"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1015.33,"endTime":1019.41,"body":"well known or popularized, but"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1019.41,"endTime":1022.77,"body":"it's really easy to do for the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1019.41,"endTime":1022.77,"body":"advanced older nerve patient"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1022.77,"endTime":1025.95,"body":"where the little finger remains"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1022.77,"endTime":1025.95,"body":"abducted, sort of like the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1025.95,"endTime":1030.45,"body":"Wartenberg sign, you can just"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1025.95,"endTime":1030.45,"body":"make a cut over the extensor"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1030.45,"endTime":1035.4,"body":"mechanism over the MP joint and"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1030.45,"endTime":1035.4,"body":"take the extensor, digitally"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1035.7,"endTime":1043.05,"body":"minimis and move it from the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1035.7,"endTime":1043.05,"body":"radial. From the there."},{"speaker":"Chris Dy","startTime":1044.79,"endTime":1046.08,"body":"I'm filming Lee right"},{"speaker":"Chris Dy","startTime":1044.79,"endTime":1046.08,"body":"now"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1047.06,"endTime":1050.81,"body":"the older side of the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1047.06,"endTime":1050.81,"body":"little finger to the radial side"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1050.81,"endTime":1054.62,"body":"of the little finger. You can"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1050.81,"endTime":1054.62,"body":"just cut the tendon and move it"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1054.62,"endTime":1058.76,"body":"from the older side of the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1054.62,"endTime":1058.76,"body":"little finger to the radial side"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1059.09,"endTime":1063.35,"body":"of the little finger extensor"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1059.09,"endTime":1063.35,"body":"hood and tape the two fingers"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1063.35,"endTime":1066.62,"body":"together like buddy splinting,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1063.35,"endTime":1066.62,"body":"and the patient will immediately"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1066.62,"endTime":1071.12,"body":"have that Wartenberg problem"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1066.62,"endTime":1071.12,"body":"corrected. And when I wrote that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1071.12,"endTime":1073.7,"body":"paper, a letter to the editor"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1071.12,"endTime":1073.7,"body":"came in and said if I would just"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1073.7,"endTime":1076.91,"body":"move the tendon under the new"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1073.7,"endTime":1076.91,"body":"metatarsal ligament, I could"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1076.91,"endTime":1080.93,"body":"also correct calling with the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1076.91,"endTime":1080.93,"body":"same transfer. And I would"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1080.93,"endTime":1085.01,"body":"recommend that to you because"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1080.93,"endTime":1085.01,"body":"it's just one incision over the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1085.04,"endTime":1088.55,"body":"dorsal aspect of the little"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1085.04,"endTime":1088.55,"body":"finger, disconnecting the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1088.55,"endTime":1092.39,"body":"extensor, digitally minime and"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1088.55,"endTime":1092.39,"body":"moving it to the radial side."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1092.39,"endTime":1095.51,"body":"It's very easy to do with very"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1092.39,"endTime":1095.51,"body":"little morbidity for the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1095.51,"endTime":1096.05,"body":"patient."},{"speaker":"Chris Dy","startTime":1097.1,"endTime":1099.05,"body":"I love that transfer."},{"speaker":"Chris Dy","startTime":1097.1,"endTime":1099.05,"body":"By the way. I think that's a"},{"speaker":"Chris Dy","startTime":1099.05,"endTime":1102.95,"body":"great one. Do you do you think"},{"speaker":"Chris Dy","startTime":1099.05,"endTime":1102.95,"body":"that you could do that in the"},{"speaker":"Chris Dy","startTime":1102.98,"endTime":1105.95,"body":"wide awake manner? And do you"},{"speaker":"Chris Dy","startTime":1102.98,"endTime":1105.95,"body":"think they'd be able to correct"},{"speaker":"Chris Dy","startTime":1105.95,"endTime":1108.11,"body":"that right away? Yes. I love"},{"speaker":"Chris Dy","startTime":1105.95,"endTime":1108.11,"body":"that."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1108.83,"endTime":1110.66,"body":"So joint innovation,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1108.83,"endTime":1110.66,"body":"yes."},{"speaker":"Chris Dy","startTime":1110.66,"endTime":1112.01,"body":"Let's talk about joint"},{"speaker":"Chris Dy","startTime":1110.66,"endTime":1112.01,"body":"innovation."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1112.43,"endTime":1117.62,"body":"Okay, so you liked this"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1112.43,"endTime":1117.62,"body":"because involves an orthopedic"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1117.62,"endTime":1122.12,"body":"surgeon. When I was the chief"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1117.62,"endTime":1122.12,"body":"resident in plastic surgery at"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1122.12,"endTime":1125.99,"body":"Johns Hopkins and I was running"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1122.12,"endTime":1125.99,"body":"the burn unit. GALEN cron was an"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1125.99,"endTime":1129.26,"body":"orthopedic resident rotating on"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1125.99,"endTime":1129.26,"body":"our service. And I was helping"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1129.26,"endTime":1132.2,"body":"him do what I thought was a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1129.26,"endTime":1132.2,"body":"recurrent dorsal root ganglion."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1132.71,"endTime":1135.08,"body":"And I instructed him at the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1132.71,"endTime":1135.08,"body":"beginning, we're going to follow"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1135.08,"endTime":1139.31,"body":"this down into the dorsal wrist"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1135.08,"endTime":1139.31,"body":"capsule, and so on, and we're"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1139.31,"endTime":1142.85,"body":"doing the dissection and the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1139.31,"endTime":1142.85,"body":"mass did not go into the dorsal"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1142.85,"endTime":1146.21,"body":"wrist capsule when distally and"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1142.85,"endTime":1146.21,"body":"proximally. And I said this"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1146.21,"endTime":1149.15,"body":"looks like an aroma. But of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1146.21,"endTime":1149.15,"body":"course, there are no nerves on"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1149.15,"endTime":1151.88,"body":"the dorsal aspect of the wrist,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1149.15,"endTime":1151.88,"body":"maybe it's an injured tendon, we"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1151.88,"endTime":1154.88,"body":"counted all the tendons, they"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1151.88,"endTime":1154.88,"body":"were all there, that added and"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1154.88,"endTime":1158.66,"body":"we took it out in the pathology"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1154.88,"endTime":1158.66,"body":"came back into Roma. And so"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1158.66,"endTime":1164.99,"body":"based on that work, in 1978, I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1158.66,"endTime":1164.99,"body":"went back to the anatomy lab,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1165.26,"endTime":1167.84,"body":"where the Hopkins medical"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1165.26,"endTime":1167.84,"body":"students as most other medical"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1167.84,"endTime":1171.11,"body":"students never really thoroughly"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1167.84,"endTime":1171.11,"body":"dissected cadavers. And they had"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1171.11,"endTime":1174.41,"body":"50 cadavers. And I found that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1171.11,"endTime":1174.41,"body":"the terminal branch or the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1174.41,"endTime":1177.38,"body":"posterior interosseous nerve,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1174.41,"endTime":1177.38,"body":"after innovating the thumb"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1177.38,"endTime":1180.56,"body":"extensor muscles, continued on"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1177.38,"endTime":1180.56,"body":"the interosseous membrane and"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1180.56,"endTime":1183.17,"body":"went through the radial side of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1180.56,"endTime":1183.17,"body":"the fourth extensor compartment,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1183.53,"endTime":1187.52,"body":"the innervates, the dorsal root"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1183.53,"endTime":1187.52,"body":"capsule, and I took pictures and"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1187.52,"endTime":1191.9,"body":"I showed them to Dr. Curtis,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1187.52,"endTime":1191.9,"body":"who's Of course, I was his first"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1191.9,"endTime":1196.58,"body":"hand fell with the hand center"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1191.9,"endTime":1196.58,"body":"in 1977. I'd finished my hand"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1196.58,"endTime":1199.43,"body":"fellowship then, and he said,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1196.58,"endTime":1199.43,"body":"Lee, that's the reason why"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1199.43,"endTime":1202.58,"body":"people have Pain over their"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1199.43,"endTime":1202.58,"body":"dorsal wrist. And we could ever"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1202.58,"endTime":1205.28,"body":"find anything and a year later"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1202.58,"endTime":1205.28,"body":"they come back with a ganglion,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1205.7,"endTime":1208.07,"body":"the mass is pushing on that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1205.7,"endTime":1208.07,"body":"nerve as it goes through the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1208.07,"endTime":1210.59,"body":"risk capsule. And then it"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1208.07,"endTime":1210.59,"body":"suddenly pops through the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1210.59,"endTime":1214.67,"body":"extensor tendons and we see it."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1210.59,"endTime":1214.67,"body":"And so that gave me the idea"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1214.67,"endTime":1219.26,"body":"that wrist pain could come from"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1214.67,"endTime":1219.26,"body":"a nerve. Because in every single"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1219.26,"endTime":1223.55,"body":"anatomy book today, you cannot"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1219.26,"endTime":1223.55,"body":"find a single nerve to any joint"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1223.58,"endTime":1226.94,"body":"in the human body, except as I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1223.58,"endTime":1226.94,"body":"go puffins, you'll join in the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1226.94,"endTime":1231.89,"body":"spinal column, where pain"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1226.94,"endTime":1231.89,"body":"management, doctors just use the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1231.89,"endTime":1235.52,"body":"X ray name, their radiofrequency"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1231.89,"endTime":1235.52,"body":"ablation needle, and a very"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1235.52,"endTime":1238.55,"body":"successful D innervating. A"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1235.52,"endTime":1238.55,"body":"joint. But there's no other"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1238.55,"endTime":1243.5,"body":"nerve to a joint in any anatomy"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1238.55,"endTime":1243.5,"body":"book. And so based on that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1243.5,"endTime":1249.5,"body":"experience, I was pretty excited"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1243.5,"endTime":1249.5,"body":"about being able to help painful"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1249.5,"endTime":1252.8,"body":"joints. And then when Dr."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1249.5,"endTime":1252.8,"body":"McKenna did her hand fellowship"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1252.8,"endTime":1257.84,"body":"from 81 to 82. She had a patient"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1252.8,"endTime":1257.84,"body":"in a car accident, whose Volvo"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1257.84,"endTime":1260.54,"body":"Ariston hit the steering wheel,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1257.84,"endTime":1260.54,"body":"the patient was a piano player"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1260.54,"endTime":1265.4,"body":"at Peabody, and the patient had"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1260.54,"endTime":1265.4,"body":"volar wrist pain. And so I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1265.4,"endTime":1268.37,"body":"stopped that case. And we in"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1265.4,"endTime":1268.37,"body":"fact found a volar wrist"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1268.37,"endTime":1272.09,"body":"ganglion, which when we took out"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1268.37,"endTime":1272.09,"body":"under the histology, there was a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1272.09,"endTime":1275.48,"body":"small nerve there. And we had a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1272.09,"endTime":1275.48,"body":"patient who had had a shotgun"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1275.48,"endTime":1278.72,"body":"injury to their wrist that had"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1275.48,"endTime":1278.72,"body":"been fused, and had vulgaris"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1278.72,"endTime":1282.38,"body":"pain in a fuse joint. And when"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1278.72,"endTime":1282.38,"body":"we explored that, we found a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1282.38,"endTime":1288.08,"body":"piece of shotgun wadding next to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1282.38,"endTime":1288.08,"body":"a small nerve. And then we had a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1288.08,"endTime":1293.15,"body":"patient whose upper arm had been"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1288.08,"endTime":1293.15,"body":"Avulsed with some kind of trench"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1293.15,"endTime":1296.93,"body":"digging equipment, and the arm"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1293.15,"endTime":1296.93,"body":"having been cut in so many"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1296.93,"endTime":1300.2,"body":"places was not replaceable. And"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1296.93,"endTime":1300.2,"body":"we were able to take the volar"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1300.44,"endTime":1304.91,"body":"forearm and take the interior"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1300.44,"endTime":1304.91,"body":"and roseus nerve and follow it"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1305.24,"endTime":1308.24,"body":"through the pronator quadratus"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1305.24,"endTime":1308.24,"body":"into the lower risk capsule with"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1308.24,"endTime":1313.55,"body":"serial histology and therefore"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1308.24,"endTime":1313.55,"body":"we identified the ATR and we"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1313.55,"endTime":1317.12,"body":"identified the anterior"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1313.55,"endTime":1317.12,"body":"interosseous nerve innervating,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1317.12,"endTime":1321.05,"body":"the volar risk capsule, and"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1317.12,"endTime":1321.05,"body":"published that in 1984 in the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1321.05,"endTime":1324.41,"body":"Journal of hand surgery, so that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1321.05,"endTime":1324.41,"body":"meant that we could begin to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1324.5,"endTime":1330.29,"body":"take care of anterior and"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1324.5,"endTime":1330.29,"body":"posterior wrist pain. And that's"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1330.29,"endTime":1335.39,"body":"what I began to do so the paper"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1330.29,"endTime":1335.39,"body":"on the VOR wrist was an ad for"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1335.39,"endTime":1340.4,"body":"in the paper on partial dorsal"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1335.39,"endTime":1340.4,"body":"wrist innovation was 85. And now"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1340.4,"endTime":1344.45,"body":"to step back in Germany when I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1340.4,"endTime":1344.45,"body":"finished my hand fellowship, in"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1344.45,"endTime":1348.77,"body":"the first issue of the Journal"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1344.45,"endTime":1348.77,"body":"of hand surgery, Dr. Buck Ramco,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1348.77,"endTime":1353.27,"body":"from Germany had published a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1348.77,"endTime":1353.27,"body":"paper on the German speaking"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1353.27,"endTime":1360.35,"body":"people's experience with 300"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1353.27,"endTime":1360.35,"body":"RISD innovations, but the German"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1360.35,"endTime":1365.63,"body":"approach was to wipe out the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1360.35,"endTime":1365.63,"body":"entire population of nerves to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1365.63,"endTime":1369.41,"body":"the wrist joint, they removed 10"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1365.63,"endTime":1369.41,"body":"separate branches from seven"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1369.41,"endTime":1373.64,"body":"nerves utilizing three or four"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1369.41,"endTime":1373.64,"body":"separate incisions. But when you"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1373.64,"endTime":1376.79,"body":"carefully analyze the yearbook"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1373.64,"endTime":1376.79,"body":"Graham COEs results, only about"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1376.79,"endTime":1381.77,"body":"20% of his patients really had"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1376.79,"endTime":1381.77,"body":"had all those branches removed."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1382.07,"endTime":1385.49,"body":"And he got just the same results"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1382.07,"endTime":1385.49,"body":"and people who had had less"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1385.49,"endTime":1388.91,"body":"removed than all the nerves"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1385.49,"endTime":1388.91,"body":"removed. And I decided to call"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1388.94,"endTime":1393.14,"body":"the approach that I use partial"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1388.94,"endTime":1393.14,"body":"joint denervation instead of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1393.38,"endTime":1398.24,"body":"total wrist and innovation. And"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1393.38,"endTime":1398.24,"body":"of course, the way you decide"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1398.24,"endTime":1402.68,"body":"how many nerves would be removed"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1398.24,"endTime":1402.68,"body":"would be with a nerve blocks. So"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1403.79,"endTime":1406.94,"body":"the failures in the German"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1403.79,"endTime":1406.94,"body":"speaking people's experience"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1406.94,"endTime":1410.84,"body":"were patients who had wrist"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1406.94,"endTime":1410.84,"body":"instability. And so that when I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1410.84,"endTime":1413.39,"body":"began to do the work with"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1410.84,"endTime":1413.39,"body":"partial dorsal and partial"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1413.39,"endTime":1419.75,"body":"volar, wrist innervation and"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1413.39,"endTime":1419.75,"body":"exclusion criteria was joint"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1419.75,"endTime":1424.7,"body":"instability however, you wanted"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1419.75,"endTime":1424.7,"body":"to find a joint instability. So"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1424.73,"endTime":1428.54,"body":"the German experience was about"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1424.73,"endTime":1428.54,"body":"60%, good or excellent results,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1428.54,"endTime":1433.7,"body":"but they had increasing failures"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1428.54,"endTime":1433.7,"body":"due to progressive instability,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1433.73,"endTime":1437.36,"body":"but people using their wrists"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1433.73,"endTime":1437.36,"body":"that was unstable to begin with."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1438.02,"endTime":1441.98,"body":"And we had much better success."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1438.02,"endTime":1441.98,"body":"We had like 80% success if the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1441.98,"endTime":1447.95,"body":"nerve block was successful. And"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1441.98,"endTime":1447.95,"body":"then that went on to my moving"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1447.95,"endTime":1454.25,"body":"to the knee. And just as their"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1447.95,"endTime":1454.25,"body":"CRPS described for the hand, an"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1454.25,"endTime":1458.66,"body":"orthopedic surgeon in Baltimore,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1454.25,"endTime":1458.66,"body":"named Dave Hungerford had"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1458.66,"endTime":1462.92,"body":"described CRPS of the knee after"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1458.66,"endTime":1462.92,"body":"people had total knee"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1462.92,"endTime":1466.94,"body":"arthroplasty. And for him, that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1462.92,"endTime":1466.94,"body":"meant that the skin around the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1466.94,"endTime":1470.42,"body":"knee joint couldn't be touched"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1466.94,"endTime":1470.42,"body":"as well as people having deep"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1470.42,"endTime":1478.52,"body":"pain in the knee joint. And I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1470.42,"endTime":1478.52,"body":"had met Dr. Hungerford in 1993,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1478.73,"endTime":1483.89,"body":"at actually a pain clinic at a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1478.73,"endTime":1483.89,"body":"Christmas party and I asked him"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1483.89,"endTime":1486.8,"body":"if he had problems with the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1483.89,"endTime":1486.8,"body":"pain. He told me he has three"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1486.8,"endTime":1489.86,"body":"clinics a week of people with"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1486.8,"endTime":1489.86,"body":"knee pain. I told him that if he"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1489.86,"endTime":1493.31,"body":"sent me his first round draft"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1489.86,"endTime":1493.31,"body":"choice for the summer research"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1493.64,"endTime":1499.61,"body":"residents, I would solve the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1493.64,"endTime":1499.61,"body":"pain for him. And that summer"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1499.61,"endTime":1503.99,"body":"grateful Winder knocked on my"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1499.61,"endTime":1503.99,"body":"door and told me, Dr. Hungerford"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1503.99,"endTime":1507.47,"body":"had sent him. And I said, Well,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1503.99,"endTime":1507.47,"body":"Greg, what do you want to do?"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1507.47,"endTime":1510.23,"body":"Greg said, I'm going to become a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1507.47,"endTime":1510.23,"body":"famous orthopedic sports"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1510.23,"endTime":1514.16,"body":"medicine doctor. And I said,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1510.23,"endTime":1514.16,"body":"Well, why is that? He said,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1514.16,"endTime":1520.88,"body":"Well, I was a football player. I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1514.16,"endTime":1520.88,"body":"had a great GPA, and I was tight"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1520.88,"endTime":1523.97,"body":"end on the football team. And"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1520.88,"endTime":1523.97,"body":"that's what I want to do. So I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1523.97,"endTime":1527.0,"body":"said, Well, Greg, what What"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1523.97,"endTime":1527.0,"body":"project are you going to do with"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1527.0,"endTime":1531.05,"body":"Dr. Hungerford? He said, Well,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1527.0,"endTime":1531.05,"body":"we built an apparatus about"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1531.05,"endTime":1533.24,"body":"three meters high. We're going"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1531.05,"endTime":1533.24,"body":"to drop cinder blocks on the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1533.24,"endTime":1537.11,"body":"knee and study Kandra Malaysia"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1533.24,"endTime":1537.11,"body":"fracture patterns. As a G Greg,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1537.11,"endTime":1540.2,"body":"that's great. But you know, if"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1537.11,"endTime":1540.2,"body":"you really want to be famous, we"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1540.2,"endTime":1543.44,"body":"should figure out why people"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1540.2,"endTime":1543.44,"body":"with Kandra Malaysia fracture"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1543.44,"endTime":1547.7,"body":"patterns would have paid pain. I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1543.44,"endTime":1547.7,"body":"don't want to work on nerves."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1547.7,"endTime":1551.12,"body":"Dr. dellon, what do you mean by"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1547.7,"endTime":1551.12,"body":"pain? So Greg and I went down"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1551.12,"endTime":1553.94,"body":"and we dissected 45 Knees"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1551.12,"endTime":1553.94,"body":"together, we identified the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1553.94,"endTime":1557.57,"body":"nerves to the knee joint. And on"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1553.94,"endTime":1557.57,"body":"the first cadaver dissection,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1557.57,"endTime":1560.6,"body":"Greg said, Well, how do you know"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1557.57,"endTime":1560.6,"body":"it's a nerve and not attended"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1560.6,"endTime":1563.54,"body":"Dr. Doe? Then I said, Well, if"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1560.6,"endTime":1563.54,"body":"you pull on it, and the joint"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1563.54,"endTime":1566.0,"body":"moves, it's attended. And if you"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1563.54,"endTime":1566.0,"body":"pull out of the joint doesn't"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1566.0,"endTime":1569.63,"body":"move hits, could it be a nerve,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1566.0,"endTime":1569.63,"body":"and I left him alone for a while"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1569.63,"endTime":1572.27,"body":"and came back and he said,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1569.63,"endTime":1572.27,"body":"Doctor down and I found a nerve"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1572.27,"endTime":1575.03,"body":"coming from the sciatic onto the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1572.27,"endTime":1575.03,"body":"biceps tendon right into the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1575.03,"endTime":1579.02,"body":"lateral aspect of the, of the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1575.03,"endTime":1579.02,"body":"knee joint. And that was the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1579.02,"endTime":1581.27,"body":"start of that. We published it"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1579.02,"endTime":1581.27,"body":"in clinical orthopedics and"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1581.27,"endTime":1585.05,"body":"related research in 1994. Greg"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1581.27,"endTime":1585.05,"body":"got to do an orthopedic"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1585.05,"endTime":1589.04,"body":"residency UCLA. And about six"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1585.05,"endTime":1589.04,"body":"years later, he called me up and"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1589.04,"endTime":1592.34,"body":"he said, Dr. dellon, do you"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1589.04,"endTime":1592.34,"body":"remember me? I said, yeah. So"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1592.34,"endTime":1594.62,"body":"well, I want to be a hand"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1592.34,"endTime":1594.62,"body":"surgeon. I want you to write a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1594.62,"endTime":1597.59,"body":"letter for me. Previously, when"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1594.62,"endTime":1597.59,"body":"he was a medical student, and he"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1597.59,"endTime":1600.17,"body":"went for orthopedic interviews,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1597.59,"endTime":1600.17,"body":"he'd come back and he would say,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1600.44,"endTime":1603.8,"body":"Dr. Delon, are you a plastic"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1600.44,"endTime":1603.8,"body":"surgeon? I said, Yes. Well, why"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1603.8,"endTime":1607.82,"body":"would I go for my orthopedic"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1603.8,"endTime":1607.82,"body":"interviews? Does everybody know"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1607.82,"endTime":1610.82,"body":"you? And I said, well, a lot of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1607.82,"endTime":1610.82,"body":"hand surgeons are orthopedic"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1610.82,"endTime":1613.31,"body":"surgeons, and I've written a lot"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1610.82,"endTime":1613.31,"body":"of papers in the hand surgery"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1613.31,"endTime":1617.03,"body":"literature. So he asked me and I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1613.31,"endTime":1617.03,"body":"wrote him a letter and he did"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1617.03,"endTime":1621.47,"body":"his hand fellowship at Mass"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1617.03,"endTime":1621.47,"body":"General Jesse Jupiter. And he's"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1621.47,"endTime":1624.74,"body":"very successful hand surgeon in"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1621.47,"endTime":1624.74,"body":"California now. And at the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1624.74,"endTime":1627.38,"body":"American Society for Surgery,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1624.74,"endTime":1627.38,"body":"the hand meetings when I give an"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1627.38,"endTime":1630.26,"body":"instructional course on joint"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1627.38,"endTime":1630.26,"body":"innovation, Greg sits in the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1630.26,"endTime":1632.15,"body":"background waves to me and"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1630.26,"endTime":1632.15,"body":"smiles."},{"speaker":"Chris Dy","startTime":1632.69,"endTime":1636.05,"body":"So it all that all"},{"speaker":"Chris Dy","startTime":1632.69,"endTime":1636.05,"body":"started from a pain service"},{"speaker":"Chris Dy","startTime":1636.2,"endTime":1637.46,"body":"holiday Christmas party"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1637.489,"endTime":1641.809,"body":"had said that was"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1637.489,"endTime":1641.809,"body":"exactly it. And so then I asked"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1641.809,"endTime":1646.069,"body":"Dr. Hungerford to send me total"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1641.809,"endTime":1646.069,"body":"knee pain. patients who've got"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1646.069,"endTime":1649.399,"body":"total knee arthroplasty who"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1646.069,"endTime":1649.399,"body":"stood still had pain. He sent me"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1649.399,"endTime":1653.689,"body":"20 patients, and he didn't he"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1649.399,"endTime":1653.689,"body":"and Michael Martin who was with"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1653.689,"endTime":1660.289,"body":"him, the American Society for"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1653.689,"endTime":1660.289,"body":"the MER, the knee surgery,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1660.289,"endTime":1664.939,"body":"society's total active range of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1660.289,"endTime":1664.939,"body":"motion and pain score for the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1664.939,"endTime":1668.269,"body":"knee, and it innovated the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1664.939,"endTime":1668.269,"body":"patients. And he they did their"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1668.269,"endTime":1671.599,"body":"post operative evaluations. And"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1668.269,"endTime":1671.599,"body":"that was presented at the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1671.599,"endTime":1676.069,"body":"American Academy of Orthopedic"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1671.599,"endTime":1676.069,"body":"Surgery, around 1994. And that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1676.069,"endTime":1679.669,"body":"was published in 1995, or D"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1676.069,"endTime":1679.669,"body":"innervation. of total knee"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1679.669,"endTime":1683.449,"body":"arthroplasty patients. In the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1679.669,"endTime":1683.449,"body":"following year, we had extended"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1683.449,"endTime":1686.689,"body":"that to, um, young athletes or"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1683.449,"endTime":1686.689,"body":"people who were too young to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1686.689,"endTime":1690.349,"body":"have total knee arthroplasties"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1686.689,"endTime":1690.349,"body":"like people doing martial arts."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1691.549,"endTime":1694.849,"body":"And we were able to deactivate"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1691.549,"endTime":1694.849,"body":"them and successfully get them"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1694.849,"endTime":1697.849,"body":"back to activities and could"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1694.849,"endTime":1697.849,"body":"extend those to people who had"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1697.849,"endTime":1700.909,"body":"such an unhappy experience with"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1697.849,"endTime":1700.909,"body":"one knee that even though they"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1700.909,"endTime":1703.489,"body":"were bone on bone on the other"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1700.909,"endTime":1703.489,"body":"knee, we could deactivate them."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1703.699,"endTime":1706.009,"body":"They still had their"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1703.699,"endTime":1706.009,"body":"osteoarthritis, but they didn't"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1706.009,"endTime":1710.089,"body":"have pain in their knee. And we"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1706.009,"endTime":1710.089,"body":"distinguish between joint"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1710.119,"endTime":1713.179,"body":"efference and the saphenous"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1710.119,"endTime":1713.179,"body":"nerve, which is a cutaneous"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1713.179,"endTime":1715.729,"body":"afferent and the medial"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1713.179,"endTime":1715.729,"body":"cutaneous nerve of the thigh"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1715.729,"endTime":1719.599,"body":"which goes to patellar skin. So"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1715.729,"endTime":1719.599,"body":"if it's pre patellar skin, they"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1719.599,"endTime":1723.379,"body":"also have an aroma of the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1719.599,"endTime":1723.379,"body":"saphenous if it's patellar skin,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1723.619,"endTime":1727.309,"body":"which is why Dr. Hungerford"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1723.619,"endTime":1727.309,"body":"thought there was CRPS. They"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1727.309,"endTime":1730.159,"body":"have the neuroma, the medial"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1727.309,"endTime":1730.159,"body":"cutaneous nerve of the thigh,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1730.729,"endTime":1734.569,"body":"and insulin Scott, which was the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1730.729,"endTime":1734.569,"body":"main orthopedic knee surgery"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1734.569,"endTime":1739.429,"body":"textbook. In the year 2000. We"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1734.569,"endTime":1739.429,"body":"had about 300 of these patients"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1739.429,"endTime":1743.119,"body":"that we have listed in the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1739.429,"endTime":1743.119,"body":"results section. And then when"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1743.119,"endTime":1750.589,"body":"Frank Noyes wrote his book on"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1743.119,"endTime":1750.589,"body":"knee surgery a few years ago, he"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1750.589,"endTime":1754.459,"body":"asked me to write a paper on"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1750.589,"endTime":1754.459,"body":"knee pain of neuro origin. And"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1754.459,"endTime":1757.939,"body":"we included the lateral femoral"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1754.459,"endTime":1757.939,"body":"cutaneous nerve, as well as"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1757.939,"endTime":1763.789,"body":"other nerves and so we went from"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1757.939,"endTime":1763.789,"body":"doing wrist innervation to need"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1763.789,"endTime":1764.569,"body":"the innovation."},{"speaker":"Chris Dy","startTime":1765.83,"endTime":1768.23,"body":"You know more about"},{"speaker":"Chris Dy","startTime":1765.83,"endTime":1768.23,"body":"orthopedic knee pain than many"},{"speaker":"Chris Dy","startTime":1768.23,"endTime":1770.42,"body":"of us who are listening right"},{"speaker":"Chris Dy","startTime":1768.23,"endTime":1770.42,"body":"now. So thank you for sharing"},{"speaker":"Chris Dy","startTime":1770.42,"endTime":1775.58,"body":"that. The dashi segues us into"},{"speaker":"Chris Dy","startTime":1770.42,"endTime":1775.58,"body":"one of the closer to things. The"},{"speaker":"Chris Dy","startTime":1775.58,"endTime":1777.74,"body":"last one we'll talk about what's"},{"speaker":"Chris Dy","startTime":1775.58,"endTime":1777.74,"body":"on your right over there, but"},{"speaker":"Chris Dy","startTime":1777.74,"endTime":1783.02,"body":"then before that, you've"},{"speaker":"Chris Dy","startTime":1777.74,"endTime":1783.02,"body":"mentored so many young people."},{"speaker":"Chris Dy","startTime":1783.71,"endTime":1787.31,"body":"What do you enjoy the most about"},{"speaker":"Chris Dy","startTime":1783.71,"endTime":1787.31,"body":"all the mentorship?"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1790.22,"endTime":1792.98,"body":"I would like to say"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1790.22,"endTime":1792.98,"body":"just two minutes about the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1793.19,"endTime":1797.36,"body":"tennis elbow. Because as a hand"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1793.19,"endTime":1797.36,"body":"surgeon in Baltimore, I didn't"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1797.36,"endTime":1800.81,"body":"see many tennis elbow patients."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1797.36,"endTime":1800.81,"body":"I saw mainly failures when"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1800.96,"endTime":1805.4,"body":"people had done the classic"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1800.96,"endTime":1805.4,"body":"orthopedic approach to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1805.88,"endTime":1809.96,"body":"persistent lateral humeral"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1805.88,"endTime":1809.96,"body":"epicondylitis. And when I would"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1809.96,"endTime":1812.99,"body":"operate on those patients, I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1809.96,"endTime":1812.99,"body":"would find a nerve in the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1812.99,"endTime":1815.66,"body":"incision, and it was the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1812.99,"endTime":1815.66,"body":"posterior cutaneous nerve of the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1815.66,"endTime":1818.57,"body":"forearm, there was actually an"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1815.66,"endTime":1818.57,"body":"aroma, which is why that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1818.57,"endTime":1821.57,"body":"incision would often hurt and"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1818.57,"endTime":1821.57,"body":"was often mistaken for failed"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1822.65,"endTime":1826.25,"body":"treatment of the epicondylitis."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1822.65,"endTime":1826.25,"body":"And when I took that nerve and"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1826.25,"endTime":1829.25,"body":"falling approximately to the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1826.25,"endTime":1829.25,"body":"radial nerve, I found small"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1829.25,"endTime":1832.1,"body":"branches coming off to the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1829.25,"endTime":1832.1,"body":"lateral humeral HEPA condyle"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1832.34,"endTime":1837.98,"body":"that gave us gave me the idea"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1832.34,"endTime":1837.98,"body":"that we could deactivate it"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1837.98,"endTime":1842.6,"body":"tennis elbow when they had"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1837.98,"endTime":1842.6,"body":"failed treatment by conservative"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1842.6,"endTime":1848.03,"body":"methods, counterforce bracing,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1842.6,"endTime":1848.03,"body":"and steroid injections. And so I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1848.03,"endTime":1850.46,"body":"began that work first with a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1848.03,"endTime":1850.46,"body":"group of Southern Illinois"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1850.46,"endTime":1855.71,"body":"University with Robert Russell."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1850.46,"endTime":1855.71,"body":"And then with Nick Rose, who was"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1855.71,"endTime":1858.47,"body":"president of the Southern"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1855.71,"endTime":1858.47,"body":"California hand surgery society"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1858.47,"endTime":1861.47,"body":"trained with David Green. And we"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1858.47,"endTime":1861.47,"body":"have an orthopedic sports"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1861.47,"endTime":1865.67,"body":"medicine physician there who was"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1861.47,"endTime":1865.67,"body":"captain of the UCLA water polo"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1865.67,"endTime":1871.52,"body":"team, whose email is Dr."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1865.67,"endTime":1871.52,"body":"Sunshine at Dr. Sunshine and"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1871.52,"endTime":1875.66,"body":"taken my book pain solutions."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1871.52,"endTime":1875.66,"body":"And he had read about that. And"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1875.66,"endTime":1878.12,"body":"he wrote to me and asked if I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1875.66,"endTime":1878.12,"body":"would come out and work in his"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1878.12,"endTime":1881.51,"body":"clinic, and he loaded up a day"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1878.12,"endTime":1881.51,"body":"with pain patients, so I could"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1881.51,"endTime":1883.67,"body":"help him figure out who was"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1881.51,"endTime":1883.67,"body":"crazy and who really had a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1883.67,"endTime":1887.12,"body":"peripheral nerve problem. And"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1883.67,"endTime":1887.12,"body":"his pa had bilateral"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1887.12,"endTime":1891.53,"body":"counterforce braces on her arm,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1887.12,"endTime":1891.53,"body":"and I blocked her to the lateral"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1893.21,"endTime":1896.36,"body":"the nerve to her upper condyle."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1893.21,"endTime":1896.36,"body":"And she consented to surgery on"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1896.36,"endTime":1900.05,"body":"one arm the next day, and we"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1896.36,"endTime":1900.05,"body":"operated on her. And so our"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1900.05,"endTime":1902.96,"body":"paper in the Journal of hand"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1900.05,"endTime":1902.96,"body":"surgery on treatment of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1902.96,"endTime":1906.95,"body":"persistent lateral humeral"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1902.96,"endTime":1906.95,"body":"epicondylitis describes that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1906.95,"endTime":1910.43,"body":"experience and in 2019, for"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1906.95,"endTime":1910.43,"body":"those of you who'd like to learn"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1910.43,"endTime":1914.12,"body":"to do this, I wrote the book,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1910.43,"endTime":1914.12,"body":"joint innovation, which is"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1914.15,"endTime":1919.04,"body":"available from Springer, nature,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1914.15,"endTime":1919.04,"body":"the same publishers of Dr. Guys"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1919.04,"endTime":1922.55,"body":"great book on peripheral nerve"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1919.04,"endTime":1922.55,"body":"problems related to orthopedic"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1922.55,"endTime":1923.18,"body":"surgery."},{"speaker":"Chris Dy","startTime":1923.509,"endTime":1926.899,"body":"I love that that will"},{"speaker":"Chris Dy","startTime":1923.509,"endTime":1926.899,"body":"thank you. And I love that, that"},{"speaker":"Chris Dy","startTime":1926.899,"endTime":1930.559,"body":"procedure. I love the procedure"},{"speaker":"Chris Dy","startTime":1926.899,"endTime":1930.559,"body":"that she described for for"},{"speaker":"Chris Dy","startTime":1930.559,"endTime":1933.709,"body":"recurrent persistent lateral"},{"speaker":"Chris Dy","startTime":1930.559,"endTime":1933.709,"body":"epicondylitis pain, and"},{"speaker":"Chris Dy","startTime":1933.739,"endTime":1936.889,"body":"oftentimes point our trainees to"},{"speaker":"Chris Dy","startTime":1933.739,"endTime":1936.889,"body":"your paper on how to do that"},{"speaker":"Chris Dy","startTime":1936.889,"endTime":1938.629,"body":"surgery. So the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1938.63,"endTime":1943.04,"body":"thing with the mentors"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1938.63,"endTime":1943.04,"body":"that I am, one thing I really"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1943.04,"endTime":1947.45,"body":"enjoy is watching the discovery"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1943.04,"endTime":1947.45,"body":"in the people's faces and"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1947.45,"endTime":1952.52,"body":"experience usually very"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1947.45,"endTime":1952.52,"body":"experienced people, for example,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1952.52,"endTime":1955.28,"body":"generals, people have finished"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1952.52,"endTime":1955.28,"body":"general surgery and are doing"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1955.28,"endTime":1959.3,"body":"plastic surgery, when they learn"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1955.28,"endTime":1959.3,"body":"that the pain in a hernia scar"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1959.3,"endTime":1962.33,"body":"can be from a peripheral nerve"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1959.3,"endTime":1962.33,"body":"and not a recurrent hernia. And"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1962.33,"endTime":1965.57,"body":"they see the ilioinguinal nerve"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1962.33,"endTime":1965.57,"body":"and W hypogastric nervous"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1965.57,"endTime":1968.78,"body":"surgery and hurting they can"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1965.57,"endTime":1968.78,"body":"just open the external oblique"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1968.81,"endTime":1972.2,"body":"disconnect these two nerves and"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1968.81,"endTime":1972.2,"body":"treat groin pain, they're half a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1972.2,"endTime":1976.43,"body":"million hernia repairs a year"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1972.2,"endTime":1976.43,"body":"and 10 to 12% have disabling"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1976.88,"endTime":1982.73,"body":"groin pain. So even that simple"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1976.88,"endTime":1982.73,"body":"mentoring is so much fun to see"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1982.88,"endTime":1986.6,"body":"an experienced surgeon see a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1982.88,"endTime":1986.6,"body":"small nerve and realize it's the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1986.6,"endTime":1989.42,"body":"source of these horrible"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1986.6,"endTime":1989.42,"body":"problems. And that was a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1989.42,"endTime":1992.6,"body":"relatively we should never say"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1989.42,"endTime":1992.6,"body":"an operation simple but with a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1992.6,"endTime":1996.38,"body":"relatively relatively simple"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1992.6,"endTime":1996.38,"body":"operation can help that person"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1997.07,"endTime":2001.33,"body":"in pain and then later when"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1997.07,"endTime":2001.33,"body":"they've left the fellowship. And"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2001.33,"endTime":2004.69,"body":"they write back and describe the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2001.33,"endTime":2004.69,"body":"patients that they're helping"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2004.69,"endTime":2007.9,"body":"and the happiness they have in"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2004.69,"endTime":2007.9,"body":"their practice and their"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2007.9,"endTime":2011.5,"body":"personal life was relieving"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2007.9,"endTime":2011.5,"body":"people's pain has been the most"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2011.5,"endTime":2012.67,"body":"encouraging for me."},{"speaker":"Chris Dy","startTime":2015.49,"endTime":2018.22,"body":"There are so many"},{"speaker":"Chris Dy","startTime":2015.49,"endTime":2018.22,"body":"people that look to you as a as"},{"speaker":"Chris Dy","startTime":2018.22,"endTime":2021.31,"body":"a mentor and somebody that has"},{"speaker":"Chris Dy","startTime":2018.22,"endTime":2021.31,"body":"shaped their careers. And one"},{"speaker":"Chris Dy","startTime":2021.31,"endTime":2024.28,"body":"thing that I've learned after"},{"speaker":"Chris Dy","startTime":2021.31,"endTime":2024.28,"body":"our conversations where you've"},{"speaker":"Chris Dy","startTime":2024.28,"endTime":2028.33,"body":"hosted me at your lovely home"},{"speaker":"Chris Dy","startTime":2024.28,"endTime":2028.33,"body":"here is that you have done a lot"},{"speaker":"Chris Dy","startTime":2028.33,"endTime":2032.05,"body":"of things that most Academic"},{"speaker":"Chris Dy","startTime":2028.33,"endTime":2032.05,"body":"Surgeons have not done. And I'd"},{"speaker":"Chris Dy","startTime":2032.05,"endTime":2034.3,"body":"like to hear about the pro"},{"speaker":"Chris Dy","startTime":2032.05,"endTime":2034.3,"body":"sector because that is"},{"speaker":"Chris Dy","startTime":2034.3,"endTime":2038.02,"body":"definitely outside of what you"},{"speaker":"Chris Dy","startTime":2034.3,"endTime":2038.02,"body":"wouldn't expect a well known"},{"speaker":"Chris Dy","startTime":2038.56,"endTime":2040.6,"body":"academic plastic hand surgeon to"},{"speaker":"Chris Dy","startTime":2038.56,"endTime":2040.6,"body":"have done."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2042.19,"endTime":2044.8,"body":"What you're referring"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2042.19,"endTime":2044.8,"body":"to is I've published my first"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2044.83,"endTime":2050.5,"body":"novel, and there have been a few"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2044.83,"endTime":2050.5,"body":"surgeons in the past like Silas"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2050.5,"endTime":2053.92,"body":"Weir Mitchell who's most famous"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2050.5,"endTime":2053.92,"body":"as a neurologist, but he of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2053.92,"endTime":2057.07,"body":"course, was a doctor of looking"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2053.92,"endTime":2057.07,"body":"at nerve injuries and people"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2057.07,"endTime":2060.97,"body":"following the Civil War. He"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2057.07,"endTime":2060.97,"body":"wrote several short stories. And"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2060.97,"endTime":2064.03,"body":"of course, Sherlock Holmes was"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2060.97,"endTime":2064.03,"body":"written by our A Conan Doyle,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2064.03,"endTime":2067.51,"body":"who is a medical doctor. And we"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2064.03,"endTime":2067.51,"body":"have Michael Crighton, who"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2067.51,"endTime":2070.93,"body":"studied medicine at Harvard who"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2067.51,"endTime":2070.93,"body":"never took care of a single"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2070.93,"endTime":2076.6,"body":"patient but wrote Jurassic Park,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2070.93,"endTime":2076.6,"body":"Congo and dromeda strain and I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2076.6,"endTime":2081.85,"body":"decided that I wanted to write"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2076.6,"endTime":2081.85,"body":"something that would be a novel"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2082.24,"endTime":2085.66,"body":"that people could try to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2082.24,"endTime":2085.66,"body":"understand some of the problems"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2085.66,"endTime":2088.54,"body":"that I faced over these years as"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2085.66,"endTime":2088.54,"body":"a peripheral nerve surgeon."},{"speaker":"Chris Dy","startTime":2090.19,"endTime":2092.5,"body":"So tell us a little"},{"speaker":"Chris Dy","startTime":2090.19,"endTime":2092.5,"body":"bit about the book and what"},{"speaker":"Chris Dy","startTime":2092.53,"endTime":2096.37,"body":"maybe give us a you know, a"},{"speaker":"Chris Dy","startTime":2092.53,"endTime":2096.37,"body":"quick answer for it and then how"},{"speaker":"Chris Dy","startTime":2096.37,"endTime":2097.03,"body":"we can get it."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2097.6,"endTime":2104.17,"body":"Very good An example is"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2097.6,"endTime":2104.17,"body":"my attempting to do joint"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2104.17,"endTime":2111.37,"body":"innovations. Other doctors,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2104.17,"endTime":2111.37,"body":"surgeons, lawyers will say how"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2111.37,"endTime":2114.01,"body":"can you deactivate a joint when"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2111.37,"endTime":2114.01,"body":"there's no nerve that goes to a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2114.01,"endTime":2118.12,"body":"joint? And I began to wonder,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2114.01,"endTime":2118.12,"body":"really not long after my"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2118.12,"endTime":2121.78,"body":"fellowship, why I believed"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2118.12,"endTime":2121.78,"body":"certain things were true. And"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2121.78,"endTime":2125.29,"body":"other doctors, including my"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2121.78,"endTime":2125.29,"body":"teachers didn't think those same"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2125.29,"endTime":2129.22,"body":"things were true. So the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2125.29,"endTime":2129.22,"body":"question is, what is truth to,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2130.27,"endTime":2133.9,"body":"at least to me to a peripheral"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2130.27,"endTime":2133.9,"body":"nerve surgeon. But truth to me"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2133.9,"endTime":2138.07,"body":"is anatomy. And the name of the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2133.9,"endTime":2138.07,"body":"book, The Pro sector describes"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2138.07,"endTime":2141.7,"body":"that a pro section is an"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2138.07,"endTime":2141.7,"body":"excellent on the section and"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2141.7,"endTime":2145.78,"body":"when we try to teach in anatomy,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2141.7,"endTime":2145.78,"body":"we try to demonstrate something"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2145.78,"endTime":2150.49,"body":"with our dissection. And in"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2145.78,"endTime":2150.49,"body":"surgery, we are doing a pro"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2150.49,"endTime":2154.75,"body":"section. It's so for me the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2150.49,"endTime":2154.75,"body":"truth of I found nerves"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2154.75,"endTime":2157.27,"body":"innervated the joints and I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2154.75,"endTime":2157.27,"body":"could remove them and relieve"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2157.27,"endTime":2161.26,"body":"pain. That was truthy. And if"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2157.27,"endTime":2161.26,"body":"other people didn't believe me,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2161.26,"endTime":2164.95,"body":"or they doubted my results, they"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2161.26,"endTime":2164.95,"body":"just hadn't seen the same"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2164.95,"endTime":2168.43,"body":"things. So in the pro sector, I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2164.95,"endTime":2168.43,"body":"did not want it to be an"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2168.43,"endTime":2172.48,"body":"autobiographical book. I wrote"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2168.43,"endTime":2172.48,"body":"it with a woman as the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2172.48,"endTime":2175.87,"body":"protagonist. It's historic"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2172.48,"endTime":2175.87,"body":"fiction. It's a lot of fun. It's"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2175.87,"endTime":2182.83,"body":"full of great surgery history"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2175.87,"endTime":2182.83,"body":"stories. It's set in 1910. And"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2182.83,"endTime":2186.67,"body":"as you and probably many people"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2182.83,"endTime":2186.67,"body":"listening know, women could not"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2186.67,"endTime":2190.24,"body":"go to medical school in Europe,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2186.67,"endTime":2190.24,"body":"or in the United States. But"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2190.24,"endTime":2194.65,"body":"when Johns Hopkins opened as a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2190.24,"endTime":2194.65,"body":"medical school, its first class"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2194.8,"endTime":2202.21,"body":"had 10% of its students, a B"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2194.8,"endTime":2202.21,"body":"women. And this story, the pro"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2202.21,"endTime":2205.18,"body":"sector is about a woman who"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2202.21,"endTime":2205.18,"body":"could not go to medical school"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2205.18,"endTime":2207.76,"body":"in Europe, she was born in"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2205.18,"endTime":2207.76,"body":"Munich. So a good bit of the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2207.76,"endTime":2211.81,"body":"story occurs there. And in order"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2207.76,"endTime":2211.81,"body":"to get painted to the story, and"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2212.5,"endTime":2215.44,"body":"her uncle who worked in the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2212.5,"endTime":2215.44,"body":"chemical industry, which was"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2215.47,"endTime":2220.03,"body":"very big in Munich to the first"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2215.47,"endTime":2220.03,"body":"three Nobel Prizes in chemistry"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2220.03,"endTime":2225.67,"body":"went to people in Munich, her"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2220.03,"endTime":2225.67,"body":"uncle burns his hand, his wrist"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2225.73,"endTime":2228.94,"body":"working in the chemistry lab,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2225.73,"endTime":2228.94,"body":"and has a third or fourth"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2228.94,"endTime":2233.65,"body":"degree, burn, and she grows up"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2228.94,"endTime":2233.65,"body":"only being able to hold onto her"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2233.65,"endTime":2237.19,"body":"uncle's other hand. And that's"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2233.65,"endTime":2237.19,"body":"her motivation to try to find a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2237.19,"endTime":2242.74,"body":"way to solve pain. And her uncle"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2237.19,"endTime":2242.74,"body":"has a story and another"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2242.98,"endTime":2247.09,"body":"backstory where he trains toward"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2242.98,"endTime":2247.09,"body":"anatomy to try to understand."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2247.57,"endTime":2252.97,"body":"And he had the idea that nerves"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2247.57,"endTime":2252.97,"body":"crossed these areas by seeing"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2253.18,"endTime":2257.08,"body":"the dissection of Harriet Cole."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2253.18,"endTime":2257.08,"body":"And I would encourage all of you"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2257.08,"endTime":2262.15,"body":"to type in Harriet CLE, into"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2257.08,"endTime":2262.15,"body":"your web browser. She was a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2262.15,"endTime":2267.04,"body":"person who was a janitor,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2262.15,"endTime":2267.04,"body":"cleaning the anatomy lab in"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2267.1,"endTime":2271.3,"body":"medical school in Philadelphia,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2267.1,"endTime":2271.3,"body":"and donated her body to Rufus"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2271.3,"endTime":2276.55,"body":"Weaver, the chief of anatomy to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2271.3,"endTime":2276.55,"body":"a special procession, and her"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2276.55,"endTime":2279.91,"body":"entire nervous system has been"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2276.55,"endTime":2279.91,"body":"preserved and still hangs today"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2280.18,"endTime":2284.32,"body":"in Philadelphia. And that plays"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2280.18,"endTime":2284.32,"body":"a role in the story in this"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2284.47,"endTime":2289.36,"body":"book. And by having a be a woman"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2284.47,"endTime":2289.36,"body":"in 1910. At Hopkins, she has"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2289.51,"endTime":2292.81,"body":"Hallstatt as her teacher,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2289.51,"endTime":2292.81,"body":"Cushing as her teacher, and John"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2292.81,"endTime":2296.8,"body":"stage Davis who started plastic"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2292.81,"endTime":2296.8,"body":"surgery as her teacher. And then"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2296.8,"endTime":2299.86,"body":"she has the controversies"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2296.8,"endTime":2299.86,"body":"between men and women in surgery"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2300.1,"endTime":2303.4,"body":"between a peripheral nerve"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2300.1,"endTime":2303.4,"body":"surgery and orthopedic surgeons"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2303.4,"endTime":2307.12,"body":"with fixing bones in the legs"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2303.4,"endTime":2307.12,"body":"and compartment syndrome, which"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2307.12,"endTime":2310.99,"body":"is in here. And it gets into my"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2307.12,"endTime":2310.99,"body":"work with getting sensation back"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2310.99,"endTime":2315.4,"body":"in diabetic feet, and how she"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2310.99,"endTime":2315.4,"body":"comes to do this. So the book"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2315.46,"endTime":2318.97,"body":"throughout is about peripheral"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2315.46,"endTime":2318.97,"body":"nerve research in the setting of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2318.97,"endTime":2322.9,"body":"a woman surgeon and the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2318.97,"endTime":2322.9,"body":"controversies involved with her."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2323.17,"endTime":2326.14,"body":"The book is called The Pro"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2323.17,"endTime":2326.14,"body":"sector and is available on"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2326.41,"endTime":2330.19,"body":"Amazon. And I hope you'll take a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2326.41,"endTime":2330.19,"body":"chance to read it. I think it's"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2330.37,"endTime":2333.52,"body":"very inspiring, especially for"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2330.37,"endTime":2333.52,"body":"those interested in nerve"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2333.52,"endTime":2337.12,"body":"research and women going into"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2333.52,"endTime":2337.12,"body":"surgery."},{"speaker":"Chris Dy","startTime":2337.93,"endTime":2340.12,"body":"Lee, thank you for"},{"speaker":"Chris Dy","startTime":2337.93,"endTime":2340.12,"body":"that congrats on the book. And"},{"speaker":"Chris Dy","startTime":2340.12,"endTime":2343.87,"body":"obviously, thank you for being"},{"speaker":"Chris Dy","startTime":2340.12,"endTime":2343.87,"body":"such an inspiration and a"},{"speaker":"Chris Dy","startTime":2343.87,"endTime":2347.11,"body":"guiding light to so many young"},{"speaker":"Chris Dy","startTime":2343.87,"endTime":2347.11,"body":"surgeons and many of us"},{"speaker":"Chris Dy","startTime":2347.11,"endTime":2350.47,"body":"interested in in hands. So thank"},{"speaker":"Chris Dy","startTime":2347.11,"endTime":2350.47,"body":"you again for your time."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2351.16,"endTime":2354.28,"body":"Thank you for"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2351.16,"endTime":2354.28,"body":"interviewing me, you did a great"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2354.28,"endTime":2354.73,"body":"job."},{"speaker":"Charles Goldfarb","startTime":2356.74,"endTime":2358.75,"body":"Hey, Chris,"},{"speaker":"Charles Goldfarb","startTime":2356.74,"endTime":2358.75,"body":"that was fun. Let's do it again"},{"speaker":"Charles Goldfarb","startTime":2358.75,"endTime":2359.26,"body":"real soon."},{"speaker":"Chris Dy","startTime":2359.53,"endTime":2362.05,"body":"Sounds good. Well, be"},{"speaker":"Chris Dy","startTime":2359.53,"endTime":2362.05,"body":"sure to check us out on Twitter"},{"speaker":"Chris Dy","startTime":2362.05,"endTime":2364.45,"body":"at hand podcast. Hey, Chuck,"},{"speaker":"Chris Dy","startTime":2362.05,"endTime":2364.45,"body":"what's your Twitter handle?"},{"speaker":"Charles Goldfarb","startTime":2364.78,"endTime":2367.66,"body":"Mine is at"},{"speaker":"Charles Goldfarb","startTime":2364.78,"endTime":2367.66,"body":"congenital hand. What about you?"},{"speaker":"Chris Dy","startTime":2367.81,"endTime":2371.26,"body":"Mine is at Chris de MD"},{"speaker":"Chris Dy","startTime":2367.81,"endTime":2371.26,"body":"spelled dy. And if you'd like to"},{"speaker":"Chris Dy","startTime":2371.26,"endTime":2375.04,"body":"email us, you can reach us at"},{"speaker":"Chris Dy","startTime":2371.26,"endTime":2375.04,"body":"hand podcast@gmail.com."},{"speaker":"Charles Goldfarb","startTime":2375.61,"endTime":2377.74,"body":"And remember,"},{"speaker":"Charles Goldfarb","startTime":2375.61,"endTime":2377.74,"body":"please subscribe wherever you"},{"speaker":"Charles Goldfarb","startTime":2377.74,"endTime":2378.85,"body":"get your podcast"},{"speaker":"Chris Dy","startTime":2378.88,"endTime":2381.1,"body":"and be sure to leave a"},{"speaker":"Chris Dy","startTime":2378.88,"endTime":2381.1,"body":"review that helps us get the"},{"speaker":"Chris Dy","startTime":2381.1,"endTime":2381.49,"body":"word out."},{"speaker":"Charles Goldfarb","startTime":2381.879,"endTime":2384.159,"body":"Special thanks"},{"speaker":"Charles Goldfarb","startTime":2381.879,"endTime":2384.159,"body":"to Peter Martin for the amazing"},{"speaker":"Charles Goldfarb","startTime":2384.159,"endTime":2388.149,"body":"music. And remember, keep the"},{"speaker":"Charles Goldfarb","startTime":2384.159,"endTime":2388.149,"body":"upper hand. Come back next time"}]}