In a post-christian world, culture will reject anything that is associated with Christianity and embrace anything that is anti-christian. Postmodernism is a rejection of objective truth. We are seeing this today in secularism and the decolonization movement. In this episode, Brody sits down with Jon Rouleau to discuss secularism and how we should view these movements as believers.
These movements will lead to hopelessness. The world is working against the kingdom of Jesus. We were created to worship God. Let’s have confidence in the Lord and stand strong in our faith.
Skip ahead to minute 39 for the highlights.
Snowbird Wilderness Outfitters exists to proclaim the Gospel of Jesus Christ through the exposition of Scripture and personal relationships in order to equip the Church to impact this generation.
Learn more about our student and adult conferences at https://www.swoutfitters.com/
Please leave a review on Apple or Spotify to help improve No Sanity Required and help others grow in their faith.
Click here to get our Colossians Bible study.
In a post-christian world, culture will reject anything that is associated with Christianity and embrace anything that is anti-christian. Postmodernism is a rejection of objective truth. We are seeing this today in secularism and the decolonization movement. In this episode, Brody sits down with Jon Rouleau to discuss secularism and how we should view these movements as believers.
These movements will lead to hopelessness. The world is working against the kingdom of Jesus. We were created to worship God. Let’s have confidence in the Lord and stand strong in our faith.
Skip ahead to minute 39 for the highlights.
Snowbird Wilderness Outfitters exists to proclaim the Gospel of Jesus Christ through the exposition of Scripture and personal relationships in order to equip the Church to impact this generation.
Learn more about our student and adult conferences at https://www.swoutfitters.com/
Please leave a review on Apple or Spotify to help improve No Sanity Required and help others grow in their faith.
Click here to get our Colossians Bible study.
Welcome to this week's episode of no Sanity Required. Today I'm going to sit down with John Rulow. A lot of you know John. Most of our listeners are familiar with John. We have him on the podcast pretty consistently from time to time, but it's been a couple months so I don't know where the conversation will go with John.
Speaker 1:I know sometimes we can get you know it can get wordy when we're just talking conversationally and it can get you know it might it might drag on past half an hour and become more than people want to keep up with. But I will say this if you want to jump to the end, I will. I'll find we'll time stamp where Maddie will time stamp where our. In the notes. She'll time stamp where our conversation ends and you can, you can buzz on over there and hear my closing comments and I'll come back and after we talk I'll make some notes, clean up some thoughts and give a, you know, a three, three, four, at the most five minute closing thought. That'll kind of encapsulate and summarize everything that we talk about. So if you don't want to wade through it all, I don't. I don't know how long we'll go. John's got to get on the road so we don't have more than, I think, 40 or 45 minutes and it'll take us a little time to kind of get our thoughts together and get going. But what we're going to be talking about, I'm real interested in what John has to say. We've had some some sort of you know, coffee pot, water cooler conversations about Islam, hamas, the progressive movement, lgbtq, like it's just there's some crazy bizarre worlds colliding right now and and I'm trying to make sense of it. So I asked John to do a deep dive into some, some subject matter that I thought would be of interest to our listeners definitely of interest to me and so we're just going to kind of get into the this, this conversation. I don't even know, on the front end, how to title it. By the end we'll come up with an episode title. But I'm glad you've joined us and I hope this is insightful for you.
Speaker 1:I'm looking forward to the conversation. We're going to get into it here, right after the right after the John's. John's not even walked in the room yet. He's outside on the phone, so he's going to come in when hit record after the intro and and we'll get into it. Thank you and welcome to. No Sanity Required, by the way. We'll come back at the end. I'm going to start this episode. We'll start a four week advent that will end on Christmas Day. So we'll do an advent reading. I'm going to do that each week to celebrate this season. Thanks again, welcome to no Sanity Required.
Speaker 2:Welcome to no Sanity Required from the ministry of snowbird wilderness outfitters. A podcast about the Bible culture and stories from around the globe.
Speaker 1:All right, so I've got John here. We we have just come off a two day road trip and we both are trying to recover from Dairy Queen stops and barbecue joints. And we ate rib eyes. We were, we were treated to rib eyes, outlaw rib eyes, and I went ahead and ordered the cheesecake.
Speaker 3:We can't say no with somebody like you. When somebody puts something in front of you, you got to eat it.
Speaker 1:We had barbecue joint yesterday. They brought out complimentary chocolate pie and it was about 10 or 12 of us eating, 12 of us and nobody people piddled with their pie. We went in on it now we did, and then stopped at Dairy Queen on the way home. So we're recovering, we're in recovery mode. This morning You're going to go to Dennis to get a crown, but I'm going to work out with Laylee after this. So I just asked John to sit down.
Speaker 1:Let's have a quick conversation this morning, just a touch base on some stuff we were talking about that had to do with this weird.
Speaker 1:There seems to be a weird like movement right now where these like strange alliances are forming, and it's all started when John started sending you started sending me videos and clips of transgender people, liberal, progressive, feminist women, gay people like that are all like saying that they're reading the Quran and converting to Islam. But but we know that that's not going to like you can't go to, you wouldn't go to Iran and say I'm a progressive, lgbtq, blah, blah, blah, blah and I'm now part of your movement. Like you would get executed, you know, or whatever. And so what's driving this? And it seems like this is all somehow connected to the Israeli war, the war between Israel and Hamas right now the Palestinian conflict seems like since that kicked off early October so we're two months into that now seems like since that kicked out or kicked off, there was this crazy public pro Hamas and sometimes pro Palestinian, anti Jewish state, anti Israeli sentiment. That's now turning this weird movement. That's like linking up with the progressive sexual revolution, and you had some thoughts on it that I just thought were helpful.
Speaker 3:Well you know I always try to come at things from a cultural perspective here in America because, as you know, as pastors, as ministers, you know it's like we obviously won't have all the answers, but just to kind of understand, you know where our culture is so we can better, better serve and minister with the gospel. And you know, I'm just, you know the videos were not out of bounds but they were. They were almost laughable because if you know traditional Islam, you know historically it is not been a pro female, pro LGBTQ movement. And to see in our country progressive Christians or progressivism, feminism, radical feminism, you know LGBTQ, all of a sudden, you know it goes viral on all the social media platforms that they, some of them, are converting to Islam and Islam. You know we should investigate it. And, and you know why, sent Brody a video of this one. He was a transgender individual and and he was talking about, you know, this process of conversion that he was having in it. You know, and for a lot of people it was laughable because you know it's like oil and water. You know, you recognize that in these Islamic states they would have zero rights and in a lot of ways they would be, you know, executed. And so you're just like how does this doesn't make sense, like what? What? What's going on?
Speaker 3:And you know, and I think I think, the movement into a post Christian world. I've said this in the past and I think it's really important to understand that all cultures are religious, all countries, all cultures, whether it's communism, secular humanism, whether it is, you know, christianity or Islam or Hindu, or you know, whatever it is in that culture, all cultures are religious. And I think it goes back to that famous quote there's a God shape hole in our heart and we'll fill it with something we were created to worship. Humans were created to believe, and so that's what we do in a post Christian world and a post Christian West or post Christian America, you know we will. They will adamantly reject anything that's associated with Christianity and they will embrace anything that is in a sense anti-Christian, but anything that's other than that, and even in postmodernism, because postmodernism by nature is a rejection of objective truth, it's a rejection of anything objective, it's all subjective.
Speaker 3:Therefore, there is no grounding principle for somebody that lives in a postmodern world philosophically, and so they can hop on the next thing, the next movement, because there's no grounding principle. And even if they embrace something that you know, I think there's. That's why you're seeing this conflict within the feminist movement, because feminism traditionally has been, you know, pro-women, and then the transgender movement is at its philosophical conclusion, is anti-women, and there's that that clash. But postmodernism has allowed individuals to reject their principles and and everything is subjective. And so, you know, I think there's a lot of, there's a lot of things that there's a lot of things that play with the Palestinian, israeli movement or the conflict, and that, I think, is driving people to embrace or to search, you know, islam and this new faith.
Speaker 1:So I think what I hear you're you're saying that that. I just want to make sure that I'm hearing this right, because it makes a lot of sense. If I am, it's kind of like you remember that. Okay, there's a scene at the when, after Jesus' arrest, where he gets sent, Pilate sends him over to Herod, and then Herod you know that's just a crazy, a very bizarre interaction. Then you study that particular Herod and you realize that I got was, he was crazy, Like he was what we're seeing with this, with this LGBTQ, the transgender especially movement.
Speaker 1:Herod would have been right in the thick of it. But then, and then Pilate was this like high and tight military man who was a local ruler, but he was, like you know, appointed by. He was Roman and I mean he wasn't I forget what his background was, but he worked for Rome, where Herod was like a regional king, sort of a blend of of for Rome but also Jewish connection, and so there was a lot of rivalry between those two guys and it and basically they form an alliance around the persecution of Jesus. It says. It says something that effective. You know, those guys never got along, they hated each other, but after that day they became allies. Yes, Is it something?
Speaker 3:like. Is that what we're seeing? That's a really good analogy. So you've talked about this before in the podcast. Intersectionality so postmodernism has rose up in our, in our country, from a philosophical standpoint and that is the base. That's why I talk so much about postmodernism, because it really is understanding that, you know, this new movement doesn't believe in truth, doesn't believe in objectivity. Everything is subjective and it and it allows a world where, you know, individuals can come in and kind of shape based upon the current moment, what, what the belief system is. Now, intersectionality I try to get real practical and not too like nerdy to make it. So you have neocommunism, so communism was a neo meaning for, especially for our younger listeners.
Speaker 1:It's a form of new reform yes, the new, new, new. New means new to a new brand of communism. Yes.
Speaker 3:So old communism was just about the economy and you had the rich versus the poor or the oppressed versus the oppressor. Well, in the new world that we live in, the new lens of critical theory is taking that same framework, but instead of just viewing the economy, you're viewing all social relationships. So intersectionality tried to create a connection or a hierarchy within all of these social relationships. So you have critical race theory, which is communism through the lens of race. You have queer theory, which is communism through the lens of sexuality, you know. And so you have intersectionality that is trying to create a roadmap or a hierarchy that says okay, well, if you're, if you're a black lesbian trans, you're higher on this hierarchy than if you are. You know, you name it.
Speaker 1:Just a black lesbian.
Speaker 3:Right, and so every so everything is viewed through the lens of the oppressor, the oppressor. So in our current cultural moment, you can see how everybody wants to be a victim, because if you're a victim you're oppressed, and oppressed individuals in our society are being elevated. So the Israel Hamas connection is a part of these critical theories is decolonization or postcolonial theory, which basically says you know, the indigenous people were oppressed by colonizers, so we have to decolonize the land, right, and so they view Israel as the colonizer and the Palestinians as the colonize. So Israel is the oppressor, the Palestinians are the oppressed and so therefore, regardless of what happens, the oppressor is always on the same team. So LGBTQ people, who are the in the oppressed category because of traditional sexual norms, you know they are in an alliance because of intersectionality with you know the Palestinians, and I think they were very strategic to say well, we're an alliance with Palestinians, not Hamas, even though Hamas is a terrorist organization, even though, immediately after the attacks on Israel, you know a lot of these organizations were posting pictures of the terrorist. They made a cartoon picture of the terrorists who they flew in on these, you know, parachute plane things or whatever, and that's the picture that they posted and you're like, well, that's not Palestine, that's Hamas. So you're partnering with a terrorist organization.
Speaker 3:And you know people who believe in, you know, decolonization. They would say publicly yes, we are for Hamas, because they believe that any form of liberation from the oppressor is acceptable, including terrorist acts. And so you have the common individual. You know even a lot of just, I would say, liberals, or maybe moderate progressives. You know who are. They're seeing this and all of a sudden they're like, wait a second, that like we're not for you know, murdering babies and women and children.
Speaker 3:But the movement says, yes, you are. And so there's individuals are saying, listen, you take this stand. And then, with all the protests and the rallies, obviously Hamas is a pro Islam, you know. Or I should say this they're, they're, they're Muslims that live in Palestine, you know. And so in the midst of that, then individuals, you know, are there, they're just deciding to explore Islam. Now, you know, and, and that's so, there's there's this convolution of a bunch of different beliefs and theories and I think, I think individuals that are leading all of these causes are just trying to synergize away for power, trying to bridge movements for their own personal gain. So it's very much political, very much doesn't care about the individual, you know so that's really helpful.
Speaker 1:That makes that makes that makes sense. And that's why I'd asked you a few weeks ago hey, man, just give me a thoughts on this. And at that point you said I haven't, I got to think about it, dig into it, drill into it. And the way you just put that for me makes it makes sense. It's basically, if we can view Israel as the colonizer, then Israel is kind of like the the same to Palestinians as what our cultural history has been to gay people and trans people and sure. So you know it's like about. So it really is there. There is a intersectionality, really is a part of this where it's like how many forms of oppression can I claim?
Speaker 3:Yes.
Speaker 1:So if I'm, if I'm a, if I'm a transgender person who is how many boxes can you check that I'm more highly victimized.
Speaker 3:Yeah, you know, when you, when you look at, when you look at critical theory, when you look at Neo communism, it is about power, and from their own writing you know. And so, therefore, intersectionality is a tool that they use to unify oppressed groups, to create a more powerful movement. Not that they care about those individual groups, but somebody in the midst of that is trying to unite individuals for more power for more power.
Speaker 3:At the end of the day, for them to have more power which you know, which is interesting because if you just you know, if you just look at a map and you look at Israel as a country, you know, surrounded by, you know predominantly Islamic nations that are against Israel, you would, from just a I don't know a math standpoint, you go well, israel's the oppressed, not the oppressor.
Speaker 1:Oh yeah, I mean they're all of these countries.
Speaker 3:you know they might have a different form of Islam, you know what I mean, but they're all anti Israel. You know the fact that Israel is still there as a country surviving is a, you know, a miracle, but somehow in our country, because of these theories, they've been able to create a narrative that Israel is the oppressor. You know, and therefore you know, they, they, we need to be for the oppressed and I just I want to make one comment when it comes to, you know, this decolonization movement, decolonization as a theory, because I think it's, I think this is a really something really practical. That helped me. You know what's the only way that you can decolonize a country or a place or a culture is to colonize it.
Speaker 3:So the decolonizers are doing, by nature, the same thing that they're saying they're rejecting. Does that make sense? Yeah, it does. So the reality is is that this is about them saying we're right and you're wrong. So, as much as Christians or people that believe in the scriptures or believe in traditional norms, they're saying, oh well, you're wrong. And as much as postmodernism doesn't have a concrete belief that you could say, well, let's talk about your beliefs, because it's so fluid. You know they are attempting to colonize a culture or a region based upon a belief system that they have, and so, in essence, they're saying you're wrong, you know. Does that make sense? And so I think it's important for us as Christians who, in a country where you know, you know I'm sure there's a lot of teenagers listening where they go to their public high school and it's like if you take a stand for anything, it feels like man, you're, you know you're so harsh, or you're wrong or you're not.
Speaker 3:You know, inclusivity is such a big thing, but these movements are not inclusive. They have a belief system that they believe. Now they might, they might through intersectionality. You feel like, oh, we'll see, we're including all of these things, but they're really. There's a belief system that they have, that if you don't agree with their belief system, they will reject you in the same way. So it's almost like in our cultural moment. It's you know, choose this day whom you will serve, and on one side they're trying to say, oh well, we're flexible and we're open. And they're really not. You know, there really is a set of beliefs. You know is is the progressive culture is attempting to colonize our public school education through queer theory, and queer theory has a set of beliefs that if you don't believe in those it's they say, you're wrong.
Speaker 1:And you'll be punished.
Speaker 3:And you'll be punished. And now they're trying to use the law to create laws, to establish their sense of righteousness, and you know, if I could use that word? And so it really is a. It's a new belief system, and so when they criticize you for having beliefs, just know they have theirs.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, they're. In many ways, I think you could say that theirs is more religious than our Christian faith, because you know Jesus. In the book of James it says pure and undefiled religion before God and the Father's is to help, basically to minister to widows and orphans, so the poor and the at the at the heart of what Jesus would call religion is not ceremonial worship, it's acts of compassion and kindness and service, and so we're driven by faith and a finished work. We're not driven by religious practice and ceremonial practice, and so, for us, religion is about what we believe and then how it drives how we interact with humanity and God. It's not what we believe and then. So, then, how we formally worship on a Sunday or in a Sunday, and I'm making this, yes, so our. For us, when we say religion, like when some people hear religion, they picture the pontiff, the pope, the, tall hat, the ceremony, the chandeliers and the weird candleabras.
Speaker 1:And you know Catholic Church in Boston in a mobster movie. You know whatever like or or a presentation the pope is given at the Vatican. You know whatever that they think of religion as ceremony pomp. Yes, you know like where, for us, religion is all pared down to when Jesus says love the Lord, your God, with all your heart, soul, mind and strength and then love your neighbor as yourself. For us, that's what religious practice looks like. It's it's personal worship of the Lord, it's corporate worship where we gather weekly and come together to worship the Lord and encourage one another. And then it's how do we serve the poor and the needy, the blind and the broken, the abused and the truly victimized, the marginalized, the poor person, the widow, the orphan? And when you look at historic Christianity, hospitals and organizations like the Salvation Army and the Red Cross have been driven by Christ followers who are trying to live out the instruction of Jesus.
Speaker 1:And so when we talk about religion in our context as as as New Testament Christians, it means something different than when the next person talks about religion and they're talking about formalized Islam or Catholicism or or Southern Baptist, that kind of go through their standard motions on a week to week basis, whatever. So when we talk about, when you're talking about how every, every society, every, every culture has religion and worship, you use the word worship as worship at its center. In secular humanism, you worship the self. You worship personal, sensual gratification or ideological gratification, its autonomy of the self. And so then where that becomes a religious movement is these people in the progressive left are saying what is?
Speaker 1:And you talk about subjective, subjective truth or relativistic truth or moral relativism in the postmodern movement where basically people are saying whatever is right for me is just right and you got to get on board with that. And if you don't get on board with that, then you're an oppressor or you are the enemy, and that that is a religious movement from those people. That's what happened, that's what freaking happened in movements in history, like like the killing of quote unquote witches in, you know, the Salem witch trials or the beheading of Protestants in medieval England, or you know what I'm saying like, yes, or, or you know, in our recent days, the Holocaust or communist movements, or you know the, you know the communist red guard in China where they're murdering, you know, family members because they don't believe in their movement.
Speaker 3:Or I would call it a religion.
Speaker 3:And the reason I use the word religion is because you know when, when we say the word religion, people typically think of the traditional, historic religions Christianity, islam, buddhism, hinduism, maybe Mormonism in America, you know, and because it takes a form of like, like you've said, there there's ceremonies and there's holidays and there's dates, and but when I you know, when we also talk about religion, we talk about how, okay, in America and the modern movement, you know, secular humanism became a religion, right, so so evolution was a was a form of religion.
Speaker 3:It was a belief system that people held within themselves. It was a philosophical belief system that had to be believed by faith, and so they said, oh, no, well, it's a scientific fact. But when you dug into the roots of it, there were, there was, there's absolutely moments where you're like, okay, well, you have to believe this by faith because you're not proving anything right, and so all beliefs it's oh, we're believing this by faith, and so people are saying that in in America right now, they're comparing a lot of the progressive movement to like the Gnostics, gnosticism which you know, Paul addressed Gnosticism in the book of Colossians.
Speaker 3:Right, that's really a big part of his letter to the Colossians was really addressing Gnosticism if you go back and you read through it, but you know when there's nothing concrete there, they're kind of taking all of these different, this different knowledge and understanding, whether it's colonial theory or queer theory or critical theory, and it's and it becomes a form of pseudo religion and it's a form of Gnosticism. It's like they have a higher knowledge, they're woke, they've woken up to a higher knowledge and they have a better understanding and it becomes like religious worship. There are priests that give them the instructions, right, it's like when I sit back and I see all of these young people in these protests willing to make huge sacrifices, and I you see the passion and the anger, I just think to myself. They are created to worship and, in the same way that God is calling us to be missionaries, they're missionaries for a false movement, they're missionaries for a false God and those individuals with their passion, I pray that they would come to Jesus and be passionate for a righteous cause, you know, be willing to sacrifice their lives, be willing to go to all ends to help people connect to the Lord, and I think if they knew the gospel, if they knew Jesus, they would right.
Speaker 3:But but there have substituted. You know, they're worshiping the creation, not the creator, and they think this is, this is right, and so they're created to worship, but instead they're protesting for a false God. They're being deceived by the great deceiver, and you know. So that's what I think. When I see that, I just think, man, we're created to worship, you know it's, it really is Romans.
Speaker 1:One professing themselves to be wise, they became yes, they suppressed the truth and unrighteousness.
Speaker 1:And then there's this progression, this downward spiral, and it's I've always thought it was interesting that the word progressive it seems to me to almost be like and there's no finish line, because if you progress from point A to point B and you're a progressive, now what do you do? You have to progress from point B to somewhere. And I feel like we're at a point now where that's where you're feeling the insanity of some of the movement, like what are they striving for? Here was progressivism doesn't really have an end goal, it's just a. And I think that's where you realize, oh, it's demonic, satan is a God of confusion. And now we're at a point where it's just confusion and chaos. For you know, for us to sit and try to articulate it, and you're like, okay, yeah, this all makes sense, but for most people that are watching TikTok clips and YouTube clips and news headlines is like what are these people doing?
Speaker 3:insanity I mean, even when things make loose sense, it still doesn't make sense you're still like. I just don't understand. You know how and how an individual can get to this place you know, and that's why I love.
Speaker 3:One of my favorite CS Lewis quotes is you know he's talking about progress and he's like I'm gonna misquote it, but something along the lines like the quickest way to get to the right destination is to turn around if you're going the wrong way, something along that line. I totally butchered that quote. But he's basically saying listen, if you're going in the wrong direction, that's not progress. The quickest way to get to progress is to turn around and go to what's right.
Speaker 1:And you know, I think yeah yeah, it's kind of like I use an analogy with students sometimes.
Speaker 1:So we're sitting here at Snobart's North Campus, if I gave, if I gave, and you didn't know how to get back to main campus, and I gave you directions and I said, okay, go to the end out here, leave campus, go through the gate, get to the stop sign, turn left, and then I gave you all the directions and then then you turn left on the four lane, you turn right on Robinsville Road, you turn left on Main Street, you turn right on to Junaluska and right on to Pisgah. Then at 1.5 miles you turn left on the McClellan Creek and it's like right, left, right. But the most important thing is that you follow the directions to a T. So if you get to the end of campus out here and you're supposed to go left at that stop sign and you go right, it doesn't make sense that you start to travel up Beaver Creek and then you go oh wait, a minute, we were supposed I was supposed to turn left and I and I turned right. So I'll turn left now. And you turn left like, well, now it doesn't matter, if you follow the directions from there, it's going to continue to take you away from your destination.
Speaker 1:So you make the wrong turn initially, at the end of George Walker out here, instead of turn left, you turn right. And then you realize it as you're at, as you're headed up Beaver Creek, and you're like, wait a minute, we're supposed to go left, let's go left now. And so you start. You start to navigate from there and what Lewis has said, no, no, you have to go all the way back. 20, 30, 40, 50 miles from now. You're still not going to be at main campus because you took the wrong turn at the beginning.
Speaker 1:Lewis is saying you got to come back to the stop sign and go the correct way there. So you have to come back to the past. I think Pascal quote there's a God size hole in the heart of every man and the soul of every man. The only thing that's going to fill, the first right, the first correct turn, is to turn to Jesus, and then you have direction for life. These people have taken the wrong turn and so now they're just turn left, turn right, go here, progress, hit the accelerator, hit the break, just go, we'll get there. Where we going, I don't know destination, unknown.
Speaker 3:Progress, progress, progress well, and I literally okay, let's, let's. This is this. Let's think about this for one second. If you believe in progress, what you're saying is you believe in perfection hmm, right.
Speaker 3:It's like, at the end of the day, if I'm going to give you to a direction to snowbird, you believe that there's a snowbird to get to right. So you believe that there's a a right point and you can't progress. Something that's right. Does that make sense? So, like, what I'm trying to say is Like my, my pastor used to say breathing is old-fashioned but I still enjoy it and I used to laugh every time. You know he's a. You know I was from San Diego and I moved to the south and he's a southern Preacher and he's to make these little, you know little sayings and I thought that was so fun.
Speaker 3:It is true, how do you, how do you progress on breathing? Breathing is a function. You know, if you're breathing, that's what you're supposed to do, and so I think the idea of progressivism, what I'm trying to say is you know, it's like there is. What you're saying, by nature, is there is a right way, and what we're saying is Jesus is the right way and you don't progress off of the right way. And if you're just, if your goal is just progression, you might progress yourself off of the right way because just for the sake of change, new, different, whatever, but at the end of the day right, it's like you know is there something that's morally right? Has technology moved us closer to something that's morally right? But at the end of the day, it doesn't change the fact that there's something morally right. I don't know if I made sense right there, but yeah, I think you did.
Speaker 1:yeah, I mean, that is the ultimate cs Lewis argument. There's a moral lawgiver.
Speaker 1:That's right and and so, which is why it also makes sense that that that side, that progressive movement, would say no, no, no, there is no moral right. There is, but yet what you're saying is oh then what are you progressing towards? Some level of perfection, which is? Which is synonymous with the highest moral right? Yes or good, it's just as you're defining it. But then you're deacon, you're, you're tearing your whole argument apart because you're saying but, but, everything's relative. Then what are you progressing towards? Ultimate relativism? That's nothingness. I'm not a philosopher.
Speaker 3:That's, that's, that's anarchy, that's yeah, that's Nietzsche, that's. And I think, I think that's what you're seeing in this movement. You're seeing hopelessness and despair, you know, because there's no meaning if you, if you deconstruct everything once, you, once you give somebody the ability to deconstruct Well, you can deconstruct anything, and progressivism have tried to put boundaries on certain things that so, well, you can deconstruct that, but you can't can deconstruct this, but when you give somebody that tool, it doesn't happen like that, and so people are becoming it's like a form of ecclesiasties. Everything is meaningless, they've deacon. Everything is hopeless Because they just continue to deconstruct, deconstruct, progress, progress, and there's, there's no meaning.
Speaker 3:And I think, I think it's a good reminder for us is that, at the end of the day, these movements will lead to hopelessness and emptiness. And we have the gospel, you know, and and don't ever lose heart In sharing the gospel and pointing people to Jesus, because what all of these individuals are actually looking for is what we have In Jesus, in the gospel, you know, and our prayer, obviously, is that one day it, the Lord, illuminates their heart and it makes sense and it clicks, and so now they know, you know, true righteousness and true hope and true love and Not a meaningless life.
Speaker 1:Mm-hmm, man, it's good, it's helpful. You gotta go get a. You gotta go to the dentist. I gotta go to the dentist. You get a crown Crown. Always go with the gold.
Speaker 3:I mean Gold is expensive right now. I'm gonna leave my kids with something.
Speaker 1:Crack them teeth out when I'm laying in the morgue and they let you come in and say your last respects Bring a leatherman.
Speaker 3:Hey, my dad gave me my back molar.
Speaker 1:Is there anything else you think that we should have added? I mean, you got, you need to get on the road.
Speaker 3:No, I'm, you know, I just I think it's important to get an understanding of where we are in culture, but never let your lack of understanding keep you from the mission of just continuing to tell people about Jesus. You know, the gospel is still powerful, it's working, it's moving, no matter what happens.
Speaker 1:That's good.
Speaker 1:That's a good spot to stop. That's good. That's what it comes down to, because you can get lost in the weeds, yep. Well, john had to get out the door and go to the dentist, but I want to come back and it was funny. Um, john left and I went straight over to the white room, the fitness room at north campus at swowe, to meet, uh, lately, my daughter, um to, to do our workout, and we always exercise together and, while I'm we're over there, kind of warming up and getting ready, and then I get a text from john. That's a tweet and he says, uh, he says we literally just said this. And it's a text from a guy named josh howerton. And I don't know, uh, I don't, I don't know who josh howerton is. Let's see. Okay, he's, uh, the senior pastor at lake point church In dallas, texas. Senior pastor of lake point church in dallas, texas.
Speaker 1:And this is crazy. Here's what he said. Why is secularism so meh on islam? Why do and he's got that in quotes meh like meh? Why is it? Why is it like that? Why do secular progressives freak out about an imaginary future In which a theoretical christian state could punish a heretic or subjugate women while pro hug, while bro hugging islam, as they're actually doing those things. It doesn't compute right Wrong because at the root they're the same thing. And here's what this guy, uh, pastor josh howerton says the foundation of secularism equals a rejection of christianity. The foundation of islam equals a rejection of christianity. Quote anything but christian faith and anyone but christ. And then he's got a handshake emoji of secularism and islam. So that was I thought that was really insightful and interesting time, and that literally as soon as Right when he left, right when john left, that he, he gets. I guess he probably got into the dentist chair and read that the the point. Just to summarize everything we're saying.
Speaker 1:What was driving this conversation was Just this I wanted this to be a discussion about why is, why is so much of secularism now pro islam? And right, there is what sums it all up Pro islam is against the advance of the gospel and the lordship of jesus, and secularism is against the gospel and and the advance of the kingdom and the lordship of jesus, and so, yeah, so they're bros. You know that's what it comes down to. So we like to simplify things here and that simplifies it. Why is it that a radical, progressive, transgender gay dude Would all the sudden love islam and want to read the Quran and join hands with islam? Why is it that, uh, a far left progressive feminist Would decide she wanted to don a burqa and and read the Quran and talk about how wonderful it is? Why is it that any two secular movements would link up even though their own ideologies are start starkly contrasted and opposed? Well, it's because they're together in opposition against jesus.
Speaker 1:And I want to come back to the one thing I said there, just asking john's thoughts on it, but an observation when, when hered and pilot, you know they sort of they're enemies, and then they sort of rally around one another Because of who jesus is, and that day they become friends. That's the way the world is, man, it's, it's, it's working against the advance of the kingdom of locked, and so the darkness is constantly working to push that back with. The light will not be put out and the kingdom of jesus Will advance, jesus. Jesus made that clear and he's made it a reality, and For that we're grateful. And so, just by way of advent here, this first episode, the first monday of december to kick off the advent season, just wanted want to kind of explain what advent is. So advent simply means the coming.
Speaker 1:I could see the idea of the coming of jesus. So when jesus came into the world, that was the first advent, um, the first coming of christ into the world. And so when we celebrate advent, advent has become a historic Christian practice or tradition where during the christmas season primarily that consists of the month of december up until christmas Churches and families and individuals will will go through some sort of an advent study or series where all of the teaching, all of the writings are pointing to um, the, the coming of jesus and the celebration of christ coming into the world. On christmas morning, when we, when we actually pause and celebrate that, it's a season of celebration, but the day that we set aside to to really celebrate that and hopefully that's what you do it's not about the materialism, it's. It's it's heavily heavy emphasis on who jesus is and what he's done and the fact that he came to save us.
Speaker 1:And so I we've you know, we've talked in the last few weeks about the advent book. That snowboard has put out An incredible team effort zack maybury, austin scott, harry mcsween, rowan de wit, susan greenwood, an entire team of folks, that whole marketing team and then all the social media push from our social media team, which is isa, and All the work that she's done in there, sam Merman and all the work that he's done. We've got an incredible team in there. They've worked to bring this to you, and so the way that that book is laid out is to be an advent study so that you can, day by day, week by week, go through it as an individual, as a family, and that's available, by the way, electronically, so you can just you can follow it online, and so I would encourage you to celebrate advent day to day or week to week. At least once a week you might do it, you know, in conjunction with how your church does it.
Speaker 1:You know there's a lot of tradition surrounding advent, one of those being, each week, you lot, you know most churches, a lot of churches, not most, but a lot of churches will, each Sunday of the advent season, they'll light an advent candle. Then at the end there, you know, you'll have all the candles lit on that final Sunday, and this year, I think, doesn't, doesn't Christmas Eve fall on a Sunday? I believe it does, and so that's cool. You know I love the Christmas Eve service and so the lighting of the advent candles might be something you do in your home and listen, you don't have to. You can be a single person living alone. We got people listen to this that are that are young, single folks that have a couple roommates. We got people live, listen to this.
Speaker 1:I have two really good personal friends I mean very good personal friends who are, who are men, that live by themselves, and they're they're not going to be getting up and celebrating this. You know, a daily advent reading with a family around the breakfast table. They're, they're. You know, one of one of my friends is a good supporter and friend of of the work that we're doing at SWO and he's he's 70 and the other ones late 50s, early 60s, and those guys probably listen to this, know who I'm talking about and I love those brothers and I know that those guys will. They'll do it. Those guys are going to go through the advent study just by by yourself sitting there in your chair and your study chair in the morning, a cup of coffee or whatever you don't have. This doesn't have to be something that's only done at church or only done as a family, in a family setting.
Speaker 1:Celebrate for an entire month the coming of Jesus into the world. Let's celebrate that and daily reflect on it. So I will. My plan has been that on December the first December, the first I'm going to begin reading a daily. I'm going to begin doing a daily reading which, by the way, by the time this comes out, it's past December 1st. I'm recording this on November 30th.
Speaker 1:So tomorrow will begin my advent, my personal advent journey, and then on, when you're listening to this, it's going to be the fourth, the fifth, the sixth, somewhere in there, and so we'll be rolling. So jump in. You can jump in late too. You can jump in on day six or day eight or whatever. I encourage you to turn your attention and your focus this time of year to the true purpose and reason that we celebrate in such a specific way this time of year. Just celebrate Jesus and what he's done and coming into the world, love and appreciate every daggum one of you Thank you guys are awesome, grateful for your contribution and support of this ministry and pray the Lord's blessings on you this Christmas season. I hope it's incredible and rich and unforgettable. Thank you so much for supporting us the way you do, and we'll be back next Monday, lord willing.
Speaker 2:Thanks for listening to no Sanity Required. Please take a moment to subscribe and leave a rating. It really helps. Visit us at SWOutfitterscom to see all of our programming and resources, and we'll see you next week on no Sanity Required.