Identity, Marriage, and Motherhood | Respond Recap

After Respond, we kept the conversation going. Amy Davis joins us to talk about God’s faithfulness in every season, through marriage, motherhood, and ministry, and how Jesus meets us in messy, real-life stories.

We get honest about identity in Christ, navigating expectations in marriage, and parenting teens with wisdom and courage. We also touch on church hurt, blended families, and simple rhythms that help you stay grounded in God’s love.

If you need practical, Bible-centered encouragement for everyday life, this conversation is for you.

Respond Women's Retreat

Jesus & His Crazy Grandmas

Interview with Brody and Little: 30 Years of Marriage, Ministry, & Parenting

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Click here to get our Colossians Bible study.

Transcript

Welcome And Respond Questions

SPEAKER_04 0:00

Hey everyone, welcome back to this week's episode of NSR. So I don't know when this will drop. We have been working uh really hard to try to pre-record a bunch so we're not super backed up during the summer. So I don't know when this will drop, but this is kind of like an overview and reflection on Respond, our women's conference. And we had Amy Davis on the show, and we hosted a panel during Respond, and there were so many questions that we didn't get to talk about and really didn't even get to touch at all. Um, so that's kind of what we're gonna be addressing today. Where we took pulled a lot of the questions that were submitted by the ladies who attended Respond. Um, but I do wanna, I don't want these men to hear this and just be like, oh, this isn't for me, because we talked, we had Brody also talk about, you know, struggles with blended families and um marriage and leadership. And it was a really good and cool conversation that I think can be applicable to everyone. So I hope you guys enjoyed this. We're really grateful that Amy was able to come on and just share her insight. She's been a part of this ministry for so long, I think 26 years. So that's awesome. And we've been so grateful for her and Spencer and just their work and their influence in this ministry. Um, so I hope you guys enjoyed this episode. And welcome to No Sanity Required.

SPEAKER_00 1:24

Welcome to No Sanity Required from the Ministry of Snowbird Wilderness Outfitters, a podcast about the Bible, culture, and stories from around the globe.

SPEAKER_04 1:37

Obviously, I'm here with Amy and Brody. Amy, you guys probably know Amy or have heard her voice, heard her singing, maybe, but she is Spencer's wife, and she has been here since close to the beginning. How long have you been here?

SPEAKER_05 1:52

2001 was my first summer.

SPEAKER_04 1:54

That is wild, and been here ever since. Yes.

SPEAKER_01 1:56

I like the way Amy introduces herself. Oh, yeah. So, like, you know, Spencer's wife. I would say Spencer is Amy's husband. That's the way this works. And Spencer Davis, his official formal title at Snowbird is he's director of risk management. And Ama will say.

SPEAKER_05 2:16

Oh, yeah, I say my name is Amy Davis. I am the risk that Spencer manages outside of Snowbird. Exactly. Like yesterday I lost my phone here at camp. It was unfortunate because I wasn't there to grab it when it fell on the gravel and then was run over by James with on the skid steer or whatever. So Spencer, I got home. I was like, Oh, I don't have my phone. He was like, Oh, he looks to find my phone and it says, It's at North Campus. And I was like, Oh, I must have slid off the bumper when I was loading up stuff. And so he comes, I said, just go, I'll be at the grocery store, just bring it, you know, whatever. So he says it didn't make it, and he showed me my phone, and it is literally like some I've never seen a can't a phone like that ever. Oh it was awesome. He didn't even flinch, he's just like, Okay, I'll just go over there and get your phone. I can see it's right here. Right. And how long have you guys been married for? How long? 20 years. So he's used to it. He's used to it, and we were like best friends for seven before. So it's not like I roped him into anything, like he a hundred percent knew what he was getting into. I'm dead. Yeah. So funny. It's great.

SPEAKER_04 3:21

Well, the purpose of this conversation, by the time this drops, a couple weekends ago, we had our Respond Women's conference, and Amy plays a crucial role, one, in preparing for women's. She soups up the super coop, makes it look super cozy and cute. And also she sings, she teaches, she's on panels, she does breakouts. Um, so she's a crucial team member in that way. Um, she's also part-time. She does a lot of our graphics and anything pretty at camp.

SPEAKER_05 3:53

It's Amy. It's Amy. I think officially my title is the brand art coordinator. There you go.

SPEAKER_01 3:58

You're the only person that I work with on design. Yep. Yeah. We've we've had different folks come and go, and I just will only work with Amy because we've been doing this together for so long.

SPEAKER_04 4:10

Yeah. Five years. That's crazy.

SPEAKER_05 4:13

Like, even the shirt, when you were teaching through the grandmas, I was like, oh, we need to do one of those shirts that are like all the ladies and then just Jesus. And so we did.

SPEAKER_04 4:21

Just did it. Wait, this is a snowbird shirt? Um, no, this was a shirt, just me and Brody did. Oh, I love. I didn't know that.

SPEAKER_01 4:27

And yeah, and the the is double inspiration. The the series on the grandmas, Jesus' grandmas, but also there's a country shirt that was like Reba or like Dolly. Patty. Patty Reba. Patsy Klein.

SPEAKER_05 4:43

Yes. Patsy.

SPEAKER_01 4:44

Patty Loveless. Patsy. Yes. Dolly Patsy. Tammy. Yes. Tammy Wanette. Yeah. And then Country.

SPEAKER_04 4:50

Yeah, Country. I think I know two of those people. Oh. Dolly and Reba.

SPEAKER_05 4:55

I will I will share with you my Spotify 80s playlist. Country. We listen to it.

SPEAKER_01 5:00

Stand by your man. You've heard you would have heard that song. If you heard it, you'd be like, oh.

SPEAKER_05 5:04

Okay. They're like, yes, I will stand by my man. Okay.

Woven Theme And Lineage Focus

SPEAKER_04 5:09

Um well will you guys give a brief overview about the theme of Respond? And you guys kind of just mentioned the grandmas, and that's kind of we've done podcasts on that, the crazy grandmas of Jesus. Um, but I want you guys to just take a time, take time to kind of give a quick overview of the theme of Respond, if you don't mind.

SPEAKER_05 5:29

Well, Rob usually is the one who comes up with the wording for like you guys all brainstorm, and then he's like, okay, let's title it this or whatever they come up with. And so he called me and was like, what can we, what can the theme be for response? You know, we're trying to find a teaching element and we've done a lot on like Christ, a lot on like, you know, different top aspects of Jesus. And so then I said, I don't know what the title, whatever, we'll just figure out what you want to teach on. But I've got this crazy idea of something woven and just like somehow we using the word woven in the title. So whatever. And so he takes back, how about God's faithfulness woven through the lineage of Christ? And I was like, that's just absolutely that's what it's gotta be. And so that was it. And so then we spent like the past three weeks making this beautiful like photo booth, like woven things from all the girls, all the institute ladies and snowbird community come out, and we just spent hours just like talking through literally their stories and making this for the photo booth. And then we also had a space there by the photo booth where ladies could weave their own pieces of fabric in. Yeah, and it was just really turned out so lovely, like really just a great moment for them to do it.

SPEAKER_04 6:48

If you're watching, this is it behind us. This is what Amy and a lot of the other staff girls and hospitality girls made. And then I don't know where the thing that the women that it's right over there. Oh, should I grab it? Let me grab it because it's really cool.

SPEAKER_01 7:04

There it is. Here it is. And that was women could just come up and weave something into that, right?

SPEAKER_05 7:09

Yes, yes. So this is what the ladies made, and you can see here they've written their names, and some people wrote prayers through it and just wove it all in. But this is like representative of God's faithfulness. All the women that were at respond.

SPEAKER_01 7:24

It's such a cool they could just come up and and weave their piece of fabric into it. I mean, I mean it's probably several hundred people.

SPEAKER_05 7:33

Yeah, there was uh I think four fifty wove their piece into that.

SPEAKER_01 7:38

I mean, there was over five hundred people at the event.

SPEAKER_05 7:40

Oh, okay, awesome.

SPEAKER_01 7:41

Yeah, so I mean, if a third of them even a lot of people represented in that type of street.

SPEAKER_05 7:48

Yes, and we were kind of fixing it up a little bit just to kind of push it together and stuff, and I was like, oh my goodness, like you start seeing people's names, and like Ashley who helped me, we were like, Oh, this is almost like a moment of reverence, like people who are literally like connecting with like what the Lord had done in their heart and their life and their stories, and it was really neat just even sitting there, like looking at the names and everything. So it was really special for us to get to put that together for them too.

Guns Training And Protector Mindset

SPEAKER_04 8:15

Yeah, it was awesome. It was an awesome weekend. Um, but a part of the weekend, one of the sessions, or like I guess it was technically during a breakout time. We did a panel and we had a bunch of ladies from the Red Oak and Snowbird community, and we opened it up for the women who attended to submit questions, and they submitted like 50 questions. Awesome. But obviously, we couldn't answer all 50. So Amy had the great idea of making it an NSR episode, kind of answering or addressing some of the questions that we didn't get the chance to answer during the panel. So that's what we're gonna be doing today. Um, let me pull up some questions. Oh, I have a good one that we can start with. Do you know which one I'm talking about? Okay.

unknown 9:03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 9:03

Well, we asked Bernie to help us do these questions and answer them because well, you'll see. This is a funny question.

SPEAKER_01 9:10

Yep. Hold on, let me find it. Some of them need a man's.

SPEAKER_04 9:13

Yeah, they do. They do. Okay. I know the girl who submitted this as a joke, but it's funny.

SPEAKER_05 9:20

It's still legit. It's worth asking.

SPEAKER_04 9:22

Should I still date a guy if he refuses to carry? No.

SPEAKER_01 9:26

No. Um That's that question, that's a good question. A guy should not carry if he doesn't know what he's doing.

SPEAKER_04 9:35

Very true. Yes.

SPEAKER_01 9:36

If he so I would go, should I be with a guy that's not willing to train and learn how to use this tool, this weapon?

SPEAKER_04 9:47

Carry a gun, not carry something else. Yeah, it's a reference to carrying a gun.

SPEAKER_01 9:51

Yeah, I think that was probably asked in jest. And I would say some people have no business carrying a gun.

SPEAKER_03 9:57

Sure.

SPEAKER_01 9:57

Um But you should not you should not be with a guy that doesn't take the role of protector serious.

SPEAKER_05 10:06

That's my That's a good answer. I think that's great. Yep.

SPEAKER_01 10:09

There's different tools for the job. Not everybody needs to carry a gun. And matter of fact, I would prefer most people not carry a gun. I think you there's this mindset with men, especially in the South, like, well, I mean, we're gun people, we just carry guns. I'm like, there's a mindset that needs to go with carrying a gun. Like and then the training you need to you need to be. If you're gonna go buy a$500 handgun, you should pay for more than that in ammunition to train, and then you should take a couple classes. I think a couple classes a year with high-level professional trainers. Yeah. Anyway. Yeah, I'd I I would say stay away from a guy that wants to carry but doesn't want to go get trained.

SPEAKER_04 10:51

Training.

SPEAKER_01 10:51

Yeah. That's a scary redneck dude. I I got some dudes in my mind I'm thinking of um a couple that go to Red Oak, and I'm like, dang, that guy's got a gun. That's scary. I'm more scared of that than a guy of active shooter coming in this room. If an active shooter shows up, I'm not worried about the shooter. I'm worried about these knuckleheads that I know have guns and they're man pursues. And they're man-pursers.

Identity Rooted In God’s Love

SPEAKER_04 11:15

Think about that. Um, so the topic of the panel was faithfulness through different seasons. So we had a wide range of different women, like I said. So a lot of these questions we were able to touch on, but a few of them we weren't, actually, the majority of them we weren't. Uh so I want to open, Amy, and get your perspective on your best tip for grounding your identity in Christ. And this specific question said instead of, you know, a boyfriend or a job or your kids. Um, so do you have something to speak on that?

SPEAKER_05 11:48

Yes, because that is something I think when I was younger, I would have said, Oh, yes, my identity is found in Christ. But as these seasons have changed, it gets really confusing because you are now wearing all these hats and you've got all these other things on you. Like it's not just, oh yes, I'm a creative, I'm, you know, a graphic designer, I'm an artist. It's like I'm a mom, I'm a wife, I'm like responsible to and for others. And so then you're kind of like, but I'm also responsible to God to pursue my God, you know, my faithfulness to Him and to focus on my sanctification. And so I think even in the past couple of years, I haven't really been able to receive even as clearly as I have, I guess, in years before, of like my identity is in Christ, and it has nothing to do with my vocation, with my abilities, with my talents, with my skill, with my commitments, like nothing. It is all just because of God's love. Like he loves his love, he wants to pursue his love, he wants to preserve his love, he sent Jesus out of love, he's rescued me out of love, and he loves me. And I think to remind myself of that daily, oh, I get emotional because I see, we see ourselves of like I've thought this or I've done this or I forgot this. And we judge ourselves so quickly and we see it on our phones. We see we're comparing ourselves all the time, and God's like, stop. I love you. I made you, I intended for you to be the way that you are. Sin has, you know, kind of altered that because we live in a fallen world and stuff. But I've sent like my son for you because I love you. And I think just reminding myself of that every day has been a game changer for me. It's like, you know, when my marriage, we were talking about my phone, you know, and I was like, he had no hesitation. He's like, well, let's just go go get it. You know, it's like that is the love that God has for me. It's like there's no, well, when you get to this level, then I'll do whatever. Like, we don't have to earn it, we don't have to do anything. It is because God says so. And I think just a reminding myself of that, of like, I don't have to earn God's love, even if I fail, He is going, He loves me nonstop. Yeah, that's been a game changer. So I set my alarms on my phone. I have a 345 alarm that goes off, and I have an 1120 alarm that goes off. And every time I'm like, I'm loved by God, God loves me, God's here with me.

SPEAKER_04 14:22

Wait, is there significance for like those numbers or because I'm so random. Okay.

SPEAKER_05 14:27

Yeah, I don't know. I was just like, oh, that's good. That's good. Because my family will be like, what is it's somebody, some alarms going off? Like it's some are on my phone, some are on my watch. Okay. So I just kind of was like, oh, I need to remember this right now. And then it just kind of stays. So that's one thing. And then just reading it every morning. Yeah. Um, and then trying to just make myself think it, not just hanging it on my walls at my house, but like when I walk by two stop and read it and take a moment to just remind myself that I'm loved and that love always forgives, pursues, you know, preserves all those things, just reminding myself. That that for me has been a huge encouragement in the past couple of, well, probably two years that I've been doing that because I forget. I my brain is like it doesn't stop. So if I don't intentionally hear a beep of like snap out of it, God loves you. Remember, this is why we're here, this is why you're here. Yeah, that's what I do. Yeah.

Marriage Leadership And Expectations

SPEAKER_04 15:27

I think we tried to emphasize this on the panel, and the panel and all the respond sessions will be posted eventually on Snowbirds, Spotify, Apple Music, all that stuff. But we tried to emphasize this a little bit, but each woman is different. And so, like Amy might work and function differently than I do. And even maybe that's changed throughout the seasons of her life, you know? So it's like maybe when you were my age in your 20s, you function different than you do now with three kids, you know what I mean? So if you're listening to this as a woman, we hope that this offers you like practical good advice, but also we're not cardboard cutouts, you know. And that's such a blessing that the Lord didn't make us as like cyborgs, you know. Um what do you do? Yeah. I feel like I definitely reading, obviously. And I, for me, it takes me like a long time to almost like um understand scripture. So I one of my verse or chapters of the Bible that I read almost every morning is first John four, and it talks about God's love and it just like breaks down like God sent his son to die for you, and it just like breaks that down. So I read that pretty much every morning. Um that's good. And like uh a couple episodes ago, me and Brody talked about journaling and the importance how you do it if you don't do it. And I said, for me, like journaling, like if you look through this journal, it's pretty much me rewriting scripture and then praying through it and then rewriting scripture again and praying through it. Um, and so that's what I do. Um, also, we do live in such a great community where encouragement is not bountiful. Yeah, yeah, it's not slim. Um but yeah, just wanted to make that comment because I think sometimes people will listen to this and be like, well, they do this, so I have to do this. Right. What we do is read scripture, and that's gonna look different how you encourage yourself, or like how you even read scripture might look different for everyone, but the importance is that you're reading scripture, you know, and that you're striving for a healthy community and stuff like that. Um, I want to move on to the next question. We get this question a lot, like men's conference, women's conference, marriage conference. We get it a lot. So definitely there's more content all over Snowbird. If you look back at marriage conference, there's probably stuff. So I want to give you guys time though to just answer this briefly um about leadership in marriage. We get this question a lot. It like women will ask, like, what do we do if the man's not leading? Or like, how do I respond in that area? But you said something before we started recording that was so good about like expectations, if you want to speak to that, because that was good. And then Brody, of course, chime in.

SPEAKER_05 18:08

Oh, yeah, and it's fun too because like you knew me before marriage and the conversations we've had just in you know, growing a marriage, you know, and all that. So this is fun conversation about this topic.

SPEAKER_01 18:21

I knew single age.

SPEAKER_05 18:23

But just like expectations, because I think if when I was first married, I would have said, and I did say many times, I don't have any expectations, but then you have to have some like bar that obviously, or we would not have aligned yourself with this person to have married them, right? So there has to be some expectations of that they're gonna keep what they've said is true. So what I was saying about expectations is you might expect him to be leading you in a specific way, but that's not necessarily how God wants you to be led, or how God is wanting you to grow. And so your expectations might be seeming like they're being unfulfilled, or that you've got these high expectations for him when really it's like that might not be his journey that he's on, or the lessons that God's teaching him. And so I think more of turning those expectations on how he should be, turn the expectations on yourself. Like, what expectations am I not living up to for myself to be a better communicator, to be a more patient person while he's praying through things or while he's not making decisions? Like, how can I raise the expectations of myself to be a strong, confident woman of God who's not dependent on him to satisfy anything? That's good. Because the Lord is who should be satisfying our hearts. And and I think that's something I wish I would, I could go back and tell my younger version of like, hey, just be the person you want to be married to, you know, become that, and then your your expectations are satisfied because you're allowing Christ to satisfy those things because you're being obedient to who it is he's called you to be, and you're not dependent on, well, he's not doing this and he's not doing that. So I don't know, that's that's one thing that comes to mind first off uh when it comes to expectations.

SPEAKER_01 20:17

I remember when I knew your story and Little and I before you and Spencer um were in a relationship, like moving towards marriage. Like you said earlier, y'all were friends, and it was like a small community at Snowbird back then. It was a very small community. Y'all were part of that first community of people that came in here and started to you know, people all the time ask me about starting a snowbird, and I'm like there were these three years where it's just me and little but then when you think about building Snowbird, the core team that has built it is still here and you're part of that. And I remember knowing I when I'm doing premarital counseling, I do a lot of that. I'm doing three weddings in the next few months, and it's one of my favorite things. Like I I've heard pastors say, I'm I'm on a side note here. I'll c I'll bring it right back. I'll hear pastors say, I'd rather I heard a guy say, I'd rather do a funeral than a wedding. And I'm like, you're a morbid sick sucker. You need to do something else. And he's like, I hate doing weddings. And what he's getting at is typically weddings are so stressful because of the mom of the bride can be, you know, over or or the bride can be, you know, whatever. But I love it, man. I Katie Hayes asked me the other day, she said, Hey, she's not engaged yet, but she's like, You are gonna do my wedding, right? And I was like, if you didn't ask me to do your wedding, I'd probably have my feelings hurt. Like, you know, just the the relational investment there. And and and I was joking, I would not have my feelings hurt. But we were laughing about it and it's a big deal. When I sit down with a couple, when I agree to do a wedding, I don't just show up wedding day and stamp it, you know, like I'm going to be involved in your marriage. And something that's always very evident to me is when you have two people that come together in a marriage, the longer they've been adults single, they're bringing independent bag the baggage of independence, that changes expectations. So if you're in a second marriage or you got married at 27, you know, I think Spencer was 27 years old when y'all got married.

SPEAKER_05 22:33

Yeah, we were 27.

SPEAKER_01 22:34

Yeah, I mean that's nowadays that's not old. In my generation, that's old. Like I got married at we were 20 and 21, you know, and we were married, I mean, we're in our fourth decade of marriage. And so I remember thinking, okay, you've got you had moved to California as an independent woman, lived in LA, like LA or San Diego? San Diego as an independent woman, working in a creative arts position at a big West Coast church, Nashville, and then down to Florida. I mean, you were an independent woman with uh an established life. So you were bringing that into the marriage, but then your upbringing looked way different than Spencer's. Spencer grew up in sort of a, you know, it was Christian school, his family was together, his parents loved each other. There was a a bond that they had, and there was just a different experience than than yours, which we can get into that if you want to. That's up to you. But but just you came from a a divorced background, you know, broken home with some ministry baggage. Well, you got two people coming into this relationship. That's a lot to bring to the table. And you cannot help but have expectations for this other person. And I remember with Amy, Amy and I were talking about this the other day. We have very similar backgrounds. She and I. We both grew up in ministry families. Everybody knows my story and my dad's, but Amy's is very similar. And so we had sort of we had a bond that we understood some things about each other.

SPEAKER_03 24:14

Right.

SPEAKER_01 24:14

And I remember helping them, and they're they're the first wedding I ever did was Amy and Spencer.

SPEAKER_03 24:18

That's crazy. First wedding I ever did. It was awesome.

SPEAKER_01 24:20

And I've done close to a hundred weddings now, and that was the first one. And we had we had a bond like a a a Christian brother-sister. I hate when people say she's like my sister. But seriously, this link. You're just figuring it out.

SPEAKER_03 24:50

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 24:51

A couple of 28-year-old people, that's a big deal, you know. And I remember we sat on the hill above the basketball court, I think it was during a staff orientation. They've been married about a year, and I was like, Amy, I think you're expecting Spencer to do and be something that God doesn't expect him to do and be.

SPEAKER_04 25:09

That's good.

SPEAKER_01 25:10

I think you're expecting him to fix some things that got broken in your little 12 and 14 and 16-year-old heart that he can't fix. You know, and I think a lot of women, that's their story. And like, if if you can let Jesus fix and heal that, then that pressure's not on your husband. And you can focus on the things that God does. There, God does have expectations for your husband. He does.

SPEAKER_03 25:33

Right.

SPEAKER_01 25:34

And but even then you're not the judge and jury of whether or not that man is meeting those expectations. That's a that's a that's a a dance you're learning, that's a fine line, and you're learning how to balance that. And so I would just encourage ladies, don't put any expectation on your husband to do something that only Christ can do for you. Right.

SPEAKER_04 25:54

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 25:54

And then don't put any expectation on him. But then recognize Jesus does have expectations for him.

SPEAKER_04 26:00

That's not an excuse for him to be a chump. Like he still needs to provide and protect and do that.

SPEAKER_01 26:05

And so recognize that, but then be careful that, you know, it could be that you see an area in him that he needs to grow, but maybe your timeline is a little different than what the Lord has for him. God's growing him, and and if he's I would say I say to women all the time, if he's coming, if he's if if he prays, if he's present, if he's in church with y'all, um, he's on the right track, if he, you know, if he's in the word. But then also if he's none of those things, then that's doesn't change the fact that that Jesus is what you need in terms of meeting the deepest needs that you have, you know, and and so be careful with your expectations.

SPEAKER_04 26:47

Sure. I also think I already kind of said this, but I think for a lot of women, and I see this in like family members and like even I experienced it when I used to come to camp, I would really look up to everyone on staff and just think, like, oh, they've got it all figured out. It's because they live at Snowbird. It comes naturally for them. And I'm only saying this because you're very humble about it and would self-admit it. But even like Brody now was way different from when Brody and Little first got married. And obviously, I didn't know you, but I've heard stories. And it's like, I think you would admit, like you were a knucklehead, like you were stupid at times. And it took years and years of trial and error and messing up and apologizing and having to be humble and like grow in those areas. So I think for those listening, I don't want you guys to be like, they've got it all figured out. Like it's like obviously trial and error and forgiveness.

SPEAKER_01 27:36

Yeah, and I will say I with back to the conversation Amy and I had, it was like she turned a corner that day. And like uh I can see seasons of growth in their marriage. And you know, I'm very close to their kids, and little and Amy are really super, super close. And so, you know, the closer you are to somebody, the more you watch the seasons of their sanctification and growth. And you know, uh it's it's cool to watch that. It's it's very much a blessing to watch two people grow in grace towards each other. And Amy and Spencer have done that, and so many couples here, and it's encouraging and it encourages your own marriage, you know. And oh yeah, it's the stories of of Brody as a 20-something year old, and even in my 30s, uh people that knew me.

SPEAKER_05 28:26

Well, I you worked at uh Masters Inn. So I heard rumors of Brody because y'all are like five, six years older than me. And so I heard rumors of you, but I had never met you until that phone call when I came to do music that summer. But like I just remember hearing the crazy knucklehead stories and living in the barn above, you know, and all that. So yeah, it's fun.

SPEAKER_03 28:48

Yeah.

unknown 28:49

Yeah.

Parenting Teen Girls With Courage

SPEAKER_04 28:50

I think that was very well answered, very clear. And like I said, we've I feel like at multiple different conferences and events, this obvious has been brought up. So if you need more insight, I'll try to look and link if we have more information on that. Um, but this one is also directed, I think both of you guys could answer this. Um, what are ways that you would encourage your teenage? Hold on, let me start over. What are ways that you would encourage your teenage girls towards godliness, especially when everyone else has or does things that we are not allowing our teenage girls to do?

SPEAKER_01 29:25

Yeah. How do you encourage them when to to live in the life that you feel like God's called them to live? And and you're the parent, so you're gonna have to do some things, make some decisions that maybe they don't like. Um when it goes against the grain of what everybody else is doing.

SPEAKER_04 29:44

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 29:45

Your girls are 18 and 16.

SPEAKER_05 29:49

Alani's probably when this comes out, we'll be 18.

SPEAKER_01 29:53

So she's about to turn 18. You got a 17-year-old and a 16-year-old right now?

SPEAKER_05 29:57

Dang. Oh yeah, they were uh year and a half apart.

SPEAKER_01 30:00

14 months almost had Irish twins.

SPEAKER_05 30:06

Yes, Bertie, I did.

SPEAKER_01 30:10

And they there could not be two more different girls human beings. So funny how the Lord does that. So different. I don't know. You want to take that? You want to do that?

SPEAKER_05 30:21

I do. I don't I mean, I'll answer some too, but I don't know right off any second because I'm like, I'll tell you this.

SPEAKER_01 30:26

I um if you as a parent don't have courage, you're doomed, man. Middle school. You better have courage and you better have courage to stand up to the social pressure that other parents the average parent right now of teenagers has lost their mind. That like when I look around it, like we have moved into the era of parents who want to be friends and buddies, and and you're a parent, so freaking lead and be a mom or be a dad. God has called you to this. So I'd start by saying have courage. And that doesn't mean now that needs to be tempered with grace and understanding. And there are times where you choose battles and you know, you and and you can change, you can grow as a parent. Um every kid's not the same. So I brought that up to say, you know, Amy's got two daughters. I love them both. I'd I'd fight for them, I'd die for them. They could not be more different. I mean, in every facet, like they literally could not be more different. One of the things that stands out to me is Um with a lot of the the the girl dads and girl moms of you know, my my two of my girls are adults now, but as they were coming through, I would watch the way other parents parented their daughters, and I would just think, hey man, make some decisions here. Lead, quit following. Don't, you know.

SPEAKER_05 32:01

One thing I have had is a really good community of friends who have kids about the same age, like the Conties, you know, and little, you know, where it's like, especially like little and I are on a lot on the same page. Just our daughters are well, Knox and Juju are the same age. And so it it's been real helpful to know, well, I know the Conties, we are not, they're not doing the social media, the phone, you know. So we're all talking about what phone are you getting your kid? We're gonna get this. Like we've all had these conversations. So I don't feel that pressure as much to keep up with things because we homeschooled our kids for 13 years. So my circle was very much like we're all on the same level as far as that goes. But now that they've gone into high school, that I think is where a lot you've got to just be intentional to teach our daughters. It's not gonna look the same for all of your friends at all of the same times, like Alani, bedridden, her growth, her health, her everything, the suffering, the trauma she's gone through with just her health has pushed her to grow in areas Knox has not had to face yet. But it's also not the same as like what Brody's daughters have had to face, you know. So it's like having those relationships with your kids that are like just me and you, because I know your struggle and you know my struggle, you know, like in that sense, to where they trust me to help be on their team where it is that they need me to be and not be like, well, all the other girls are gonna get this prom dress this year. So we all need to get this prom dress. Like my girls are like, Alani's like, I don't want to have any prom dress to anybody else that's gonna have, I got you, you know, because we've raised them to kind of be more of like support them in where they are because we have protected them from that influence of the phone and all of the, you know, they don't see anything other than what's in Andrews. Even when they come to camp and they see all the kids and and all that, they really aren't like interacting with the students that much. So they kind of are left to just figure it out in a way. Um, and I do like that. But at some point, you know, we're trying to in now like introduce things and be like, well, you need to know how this works. And like Nox has the sports U app on so she can keep up with all of her scheduling and stuff like that. But we're very like trying to push them to be like your relationship with God shouldn't look like anybody else's, doesn't have to look like everybody else's. You need to just have that intimacy with the Lord. Yeah, and for Lonnie, that is sitting and writing music and for Knox, it literally is journaling just in her room. And then, like, even today, Knox was like, How can I pray for you? And I was like, Oh my gosh, Knox just texted me and asked me that. So it's pretty neat just to see how over time being consistent, holding your boundaries as a parent, and being like, this is what God's called me to do. I have three kids, that's my responsibility. I don't have to be responsible for Brody's kids or anybody else's kids as far as discipling them. Yeah. And so just being in prayer for them, praying for them continually, constantly, and just asking the Lord to give me wisdom and spensor wisdom in how to parent them in the way that they need to be pushed towards Christ, because it's easy to Google how to deal with a 14-year-old girl, you know, especially the middle school years, like I need help. Are they on the spectrum? Like, what do I need to do? Like, help me. Um, but just in trusting, and I this is goes for even young moms and people with like younger children, like God has given you those kids. He's gonna give you the wisdom to parent them and nurture them if you're in the word, if you're submitted to him, if you're obeying him, he's gonna give you that overflow to parent your kids the way you are. And so don't feel, don't let yourself be all stuck in your emotions of being judged by anybody else, because that is who you're responsible for. Yeah. What is all said and done.

SPEAKER_04 36:12

Yeah, I feel like I'm in a weird spot because I'm like a couple of years out of like, oh, I can't believe mom and dad never gave me this. And now I'm like seeing, like, oh, wait, I'm actually so glad. Like all of my siblings, we didn't get a phone until ninth grade. And even that was like limited. And I remember in middle school being like, mom, everyone else has a phone. Like, why can't I? And I really liked what you said, like holding those boundaries and being consistent. Because then I don't know if I realized it, but now I am realizing it's like I did respect my parents a ton for holding that boundary and not like caving in and being like, you know what, here's a phone.

SPEAKER_01 36:46

Yeah, there's I think there's two observations I've learned. Um one is it's important if you're gonna have a boundary or you're gonna make a decision as a parent, it's important that you're able to explain and articulate that. 100% so that that that child, that daughter, as we're talking about girls, but or son, they understand your why. They may not agree with it, they may not have the maturity to agree with it, but you're not just saying because I said so. So I think it's important to explain. You know, I think of uh one area where this has been very real is with modesty. So I'm explaining the reason that we we've set these sort of parameters. And we don't, you know, it's not like I didn't make my kids dress like Mormons. Right. You know, skirt down to the end. Yes. It was just like, hey, there you can still be cute and be stylish and have some fashion sense, but your butt hanging out. There's some things we're not gonna do, and here's why. And explaining that, and that's been helpful. And then the other thing is as a parent, it's very easy to get in the here and now and and just be like, I just don't I don't wanna fight this. But I promise you, when that kid is an adult, when that kid becomes a mom or a dad, they're gonna appreciate and understand the decisions you made.

SPEAKER_03 38:14

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 38:15

I've even had I've had conversations with my daughter who's with Kilby, who's a parent now, where she's like, okay, this makes sense now. I understand now. And so, you know, you're in you're playing the long game. You're as a as a parent, you're not just parenting a 14 or 16-year-old, you're parenting that person who's going to be a 30-year-old, who's going to be a 35-year-old mom of a 14-year-old, you know, and so this is generational impact in the way you parent. So see, see the big picture, those two observations. Explain why you're doing what you're doing, even when they don't understand it, and know that one day they probably will understand it.

unknown 38:53

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 38:53

What what do you say? And I don't know if I can ask this, Sarson. What do you say, like honestly, when they don't have ears to hear? You know, it's like you've explained it like 50 times. But it's like sometimes it's like one time it'll click, you know, but they're still middle school kids, high school kids, like you can say the same thing over and over and over and explain it, but they're not gonna, they haven't gotten it yet. Like, what do you when is it just okay to be like, no?

SPEAKER_01 39:24

Yeah. Yeah, there's there are gonna be those times where you've explained it, you've explained why you're the the why of the decision, and then there's a point where it it does become this is listen, I'm what I what I've done is I'm gonna give an account for how I raise my family and how I how I lead this home. I'm gonna answer to God for that. I'll answer to you one day when you look back. I'm gonna give, you know, uh no doubt. I'll I'll be tried in the court of your adult opinion one day. But right now, I've got to be able to give an account to God. You may not understand this, but this hasn't changed just because you are are coming back with the same question six months later, six weeks later. It's not gonna change. So I there is gonna be that time where there are gonna be those times where you're it's not that you're saying because I said so, but you're saying I've explained this, I'm not gonna budge on this. This is my conviction, and you're gonna have to, you're gonna have to learn how to live with that. And I think one day you'll understand, you know.

SPEAKER_05 40:28

Yeah. And we're just now getting into that point, even like with our kids, we'll we'll say that, we'll say no, we'll explain it. And then it's like, I mean, Spence will be like, ah, I really just don't want to have to say no, but we have to, you know, it's kind of like you have to like have that support from your spouse to be like, hey, but this if it's conviction to you, then I'm gonna support that because that makes sense. Like, and because I'm supporting Spence, when he makes something says something, you know, for me to be all like, okay, well, that might not be a big deal. Let's talk about it away from the situation outside of this and decide if that's even something that we need to really dig our heels in on, or if it's something that kind of isn't that big of a deal, but we can have that sidebar instead of in front of them.

SPEAKER_03 41:12

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 41:13

That's a big deal for us because I'm kind of like, what's the big deal sometimes? And he's like, Amy. And I'm like, oh yeah, that's right. You you were you you were consistently parented, and this is I got let's do it. Let's great.

SPEAKER_01 41:27

You bring up a good point. And I know that some people that are listening to this, the either you're a single parent or I think we're gonna get into a question about blended families and second marriages and step parents, and but if you are if if a husband and wife, mom and dad can be on the same page and can have those conversations behind closed doors so that you're I think it's important that your kids see a unified front with the two of you. That's very important. And and then yeah, I've recently juju uh that's my I have a daughter who's sixteen, almost seventeen. That's our youngest daughter, and she uh she came to us as a five-year-old that's with a lot of very heavy baggage from her early childhood. Very we don't even know all of it. And that's that's a different scenario. Raising her is different. And you and one thing I've learned is people are gonna judge your parenting, and I don't care.

SPEAKER_05 42:29

Fuck it.

SPEAKER_01 42:30

I don't give I don't give a rip what anybody thinks about the decisions I make as a dad. I answer to God and I answer to my wife. We're we're gonna be, we've got to be on the same page, and then I'm gonna answer the Lord. I don't care what somebody thinks. They don't know. They don't know what's going on. And so there's got to be a little bit of that. I don't care what public opinion is, I don't care about the court of public opinion. I don't, I don't, I will not be tried in the court of public opinion. I'll be tried before the Lord. And so being unified is important. But then Juju recently said, she said, Daddy, we were having a conversation, and this girl, and and and I know the kid, she said, she said something about, you know, like when your parents are fighting and da-da-da-da-da. She said, I just was like, what is she talking about? And she, I guess this kid realized that Juju was like not tracking. And she's like, you know, and Juju's like, no, I don't know. Like, what are you talking about? Your parents are fighting. And I realized, like, I wanted to go outside and yell at the top of my lungs, okay, yeah, here's a milestone.

SPEAKER_03 43:28

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 43:28

My almost 17-year-old does not know what it looks like for her parents to fight.

SPEAKER_03 43:34

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 43:35

She has no concept of that. That's awesome.

SPEAKER_03 43:37

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 43:37

And doesn't mean we've all that we always agree on everything, but it means we have those conversations. She's never heard a raised voice or anything like that. So if you can get on the same page and be committed to this, even with your uh blended family.

unknown 43:53

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 43:54

And it's going to take more work if the family's blended, if this is a second marriage and your stepkids involved, but you can do it.

Blended Families And Bias Traps

SPEAKER_04 44:00

Yeah, that kind of answered the question that we had for a blended family. It was pretty open-ended, but it just said, can you talk about struggles with a blended family? And Brody, you guys know his story, and he has two adopted kids. They've fostered and had a lot of people in and out of their home. And then also your upbringing. Like you have siblings that are in no way blood related to you. Even I don't even know if like by marriage, but you'll like call them my sister, my brother. Um, and so you kind of answered that. But do you have anything else to add to that? It's kind of vague if you don't.

SPEAKER_01 44:34

Yeah, I think the the thing that you've got to recognize if you're in a blended family, what I've seen in pastoral ministry, like counseling families and trying to help people navigate this, there's a natural, you've got a a dad who has a uh who has children from a former marriage and a mom who has children from a former marriage, and then they come together. Almost always, I mean, I can only think of one exception right now. I'm sure there's more, but that parent is gonna be, they're gonna lean and tend towards their biological children. And a lot of times it's the the parents become protective of their biological children, and it can create more conflict towards the stepchildren. And so I just think you've got to be very intentional. If if if Amy and Spencer have to constantly communicate on parenting, ramp that up. You've got to be on the same page and you've got to be in church together and worshiping together and like developing a plan. It just takes a lot of effort. And that's where if you're a single mom, the answer to your problems is not to just find a dude and marry him. Like that's gonna invite more struggles.

Motherhood And Sanctification In Real Time

SPEAKER_04 45:50

Yeah. Yeah. Um, Amy, this question, if you don't mind speaking to it, and you kind of already did, but talk about how motherhood has affected the sanctification sanctification process for you.

SPEAKER_05 46:02

Oh, yeah. Like we were talking about earlier before we recorded, I was like, motherhood has influenced my sanctification and my sanctification has influenced my motherhood. Like I feel like I'm a better mom now. And I'm like, oh, if I could have gone back to my early years and just not been so hard on myself more so, not necessarily. I mean, I I love um, I don't regret a whole lot. I homeschooled my kids, so I was with them all the time. So I feel like I had a lot of failures that I had to get over quick because you're it's like you you can't beat yourself up all day. You got to let it go to just like get back in the game there. If you're gonna survive middle school, you've got to be like, okay, it's okay. The Lord forgave me. And so, um, but I think for me, I don't know, like the sanctification is just ongoing. I think it softened my heart to be more compassionate for towards towards my kids. And even just like not even in motherhood, but just as like my personal growth, like over the past like three, four years, I feel like the Lord has really just like just like set my soul on fire of like healing and just like growth and um I don't know what I want to share, but I just know that I don't know, it's it's I don't know, I don't know how to word that really.

SPEAKER_01 47:23

But well, I think the way I think what you would probably agree to is um as a Christian, there's certain things that God gives us when when his Holy Spirit comes into us, the the scripture in Galatians 5, it gives the fruits of the Spirit, you know, love, joy, peace, patience. All of these things are given to us in measure as a young Christian or as a maybe you've been a Christian for a while, but you really surrender fully to the Lord, you receive those things. You you have a joy that the unregenerate person doesn't have. A source, you have a source of joy. You have a source of peace that the unregenerate person doesn't have. You don't have an existential Christ. It's like, why why do I exist? Yeah, what's the meaning of it all? We we have the answers to those things. The longer you walk with Christ, the more each of those grows and matures and seasons. So maybe as a young per as a young Christian, you the fruit of the spirit is on display, and but the longer you walk with the Lord, the more that fruit matures, and the more abundance of that fruit is on display. And you're gonna need all of that in parenting. So so when I'm parenting uh a toddler, I need grace, I need love, I need peace. But that's what we we we call that, we talk about the cop phase. Most of my parenting is nurturing and law enforcement, right? Nurture, enforce the law. When that child enters the teen year, somewhere in in the middle school time frame, you start to shift from the cop phase into like the coaching phase. Now I'm helping them navigate, I'm letting them make some mistakes. And what's important then is the fruits of the spirit that I possess as a young parent, I need to have them in greater abundance in the teenage years. So the sanctification process is critical that I'm a more mature Christ follower as a as a uh 10 or 15 or 20-year-old Christian than I was as a young Christian. And I think you're gonna need more grace, more patience. You need much more patience. It's I'm sure Amy, you would agree with it's funny when you hear a young mom talking about the stress of raising three small kids, and you're like, oh, I would trade, I would go back to that. That's it's a promise. This is not hard. I know you think it's hard, but it's not. It's just fun. But it is it but it is hard for that mom because she's at a younger point in her sanctification and growth process. And so as we grow, the Lord gives us what we need for the next season of life. And that's where we need his wisdom, we need his strength, we need all of the fruits of the spirit in abundance to be able to navigate each season of life. So the sanctification process, it informs your parenting because how you exhibit and extend grace and mercy and patience when you're parenting a 15-year-old, that looks different than how it looked when you're parenting a five-year-old. Um so I think that, and then the second part of that question, how does how does the one inform the other? Um, you as your your growth as a Christ follower is gonna parallel your growth as a parent. And those two are gonna be complementary to each other, you know. And um, I think, you know, there's you, you know, things like I want to create a world where I say yes a whole lot more than I say no. You know, so it's not just here's the rules, follow them. Um it's uh for for every no, I want to there to be ten yeses. So if I'm if if it's a no to a phone, it's gonna be a yes to some things that I think are gonna really help that that kid. I even think about like my kids, I I've let them have an enormous amount of independence and freedom when it comes to the things that a lot of people would not allow their kids to do. The sanctification process and the the parenting process, they run so hand in hand because once when you're a parent, you're just a parent. I mean that that is consuming much more of your energy than anything else.

SPEAKER_05 51:43

And I think what you said really hits home too. I think my answer would go along the lines like when you don't have kids, it's almost like you're receiving sanctification from the Lord, like you're receiving him working in you. When you are starting to have kids, you have to start like giving that out. You have to start like pushing that out towards them. Like you're changing and growing and God's doing so much in your heart, but then you have to live it out towards them. And I think that's a lot. I mean, you can do that in your community, you know, when you're in your college group and stuff like that, but there's a limit to where it's like three in the morning, they're puking. You gotta submit yourself to get up and go take care of that child. They can't do it. And so it is a living it out day by day without. I think that's a big thing that I know for myself. Like that would be a big difference with parenting. And then also I like what you said about um the more grace you need because you're realizing the more I'm not like Jesus. You know, it's like you're humbled because you're like, I can't do this without the Lord. Like there's no way. Like when we had three kids, I'm like, I am a professional mom, let's adopt more. Like I'm in the season, just keep adding them in. We can just keep rolling with this. But that's not what the Lord's plan was for us. And so now we're in high school with three kids, and I'm like, I don't know how people have more than three. Like, I do not know. Yeah, I don't know how they make it work. But the that's obviously everybody else's whatever. But for me, I'm like, we have we're good on three, but it is just like a big um, we need more. Yeah. I mean, no.

SPEAKER_01 53:24

There's one little phrase in the scripture that I love, and it and it's this but he gives more grace. And I man, I apply that to every facet of my life. Um, whatever whatever I'm gonna face today at work and ministry, and marriage, and singleness, and parenting, whatever you're going to face, God has promised that he will give you what you need to go through that with wisdom and you know, with with the leadership and guidance of the Holy Spirit, and whether that's for somebody that's parenting or whether that's somebody that doesn't have children or is single or whatever, you're always going to need a little more grace than what you had yesterday. You know, that's and that's what sanctification is. It's that He gives more grace. You know, I always think of there's a verse in I think it's in 2 Corinthians 3 where he talks about um um that we're being transformed one degree of glory at a time.

SPEAKER_05 54:27

That was exactly what I was thinking. Somebody put it to me as like in life, you're trans this transition wait, how do you say it? Like transitioning from one season to the next, like going up, like you're don't think of transcending. Yeah, you're going up. It's not that you're going backwards or you're resetting, it's like you're continually moving up and growing. It's just the ceiling's flown off and you're like, what do I do now? But you're still growing up. And I thought that was a great picture. I'm a picture person, I always have to have some image in my mind to draw me back to it. But that is something that's really stood out to me too. It's like, no one has ever lived today. This has never been done before. So what do you what what are you trying to prove? You we can do this, you know.

SPEAKER_01 55:11

I was talking to a girl the other day, a l a young lady. She's single, and y'all would know her, and she's dealing with issues with her dad. And uh, she has a pretty healthy relationship with him, but she did not grow up in a Christian home. And she became a Christian when she was like 15, came to Snowbird that summer and started following the Lord, and then has continued in her career to follow the Lord. And her her dad is in a I don't know, another relationship now, and she's frustrated, and it's not a healthy relationship, it's not a good situation. And uh his his previous wife, who was not her mother, his previous wife passed away, and she said, you know, I'm just frustrated because this and this and this. And I said, you know, your dad is my age, but he doesn't know the Lord. And I will tell you that the older you get, the more like when people talk about a midlife crisis or an existential crisis, that's a real thing. When you when you start, when you start to enter like the fourth quarter of life, you start to go, have I, am I, have I made the most of this? Have I done what I needed to do? And and then you add to that, if you're an empty nester, your why for years was your your parenting. And then so this guy is like by himself, and she's like, he's just he's he's in a toxic relationship. And I'm like, yeah, but he's not being informed by the Holy Spirit. He doesn't have the Lord guiding him. So for the Christian, for the Christ follower, every season of life, you're being led by the Holy Spirit. And you imagine going through anything in life without that. I can't like I can't imagine human wisdom and trying to process and make sense of something, try to have a set of convictions, try to have understanding for when bad things happen. As Christians, it's good to remember we have everything we need for every phase of life. God is gonna give you exactly what you need to navigate.

unknown 57:23

Right.

SPEAKER_01 57:23

You're single and you're praying about pursuing a person, or you're um or you're single and there's nothing on the radio. I was talking to a young dude recently and he'd gone through a broken relationship and he still hasn't gotten married, and he's I don't know, he's not that old. He's probably 23. And he's like, I don't know, man, maybe I'm just I don't I don't think I'm gonna get married. And I'm like, hey man, just take a breath, calm down.

unknown 57:44

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 57:45

Who I want you to tell me who said this quote. It is not good for the man to be alone. And he's like, God. And I was like, yeah, so probably just like just chill out, you know. And you have what you need to navigate this this situation and every situation you face in life. Just don't first look outward. I gotta find a book, I gotta find a podcaster, I gotta find a counselor, I gotta find somebody who'll tell me what to do. First look inwardly to the Holy Spirit and the Word of God and know that God's gonna give you what you need to navigate a situation. If it's a blended marriage or it's raising stepkids or it's a single mom, God's gonna give you what you need before you start looking outward. No, we do want to look outward and we help each other, and body of Christ works that way. But you've got a whole lot more at your fingertips, you've got a whole lot more of a resource than maybe you even realize. Just be patient and and press into that.

SPEAKER_05 58:43

Yeah, that's been real comforting to me, that Colossians, my God, will supply everything you need according to his riches in Christ Jesus. I love that verse. What about the church hurt conver questions that we had?

SPEAKER_04 58:56

Yeah, well that was a I was actually gonna ask that next. We got a ton of questions and comments about church hurt and how to handle church hurt.

SPEAKER_01 59:03

I I would say this about church hurt. And for listeners that may not know what we're talking about there, um, the church is when we say the church, the big C church comprised of small congregations of people, we're talking about the body of Christ. A lot of people, when they refer to church hurt, they're talking about a bad experience they had. It could be that somebody treated them poorly in the church. It could be a church split, it could be the infidelity of a pastor, it could be someone was not there for you, it could be I felt ostracized, whatever that could be. I think it's good to remember say this a lot. There's no perfect church. If there was a perfect church, it would be imperfect the moment you walk through the door because you're not perfect. So the church is just a group of imperfect people. What complicates it is some of the people in the church are not regenerate. This is biblical. Like the Bible says, there's people here that go out from us because they were not of us. The one of the things that, you know, we just did this um series on eschatology where we talked about the things pertaining to the end. And in all of those views, except well, minus the the post-millennial view, but the dispensational view, the historic premillennial view, the omillennial view, the new creation millennial view, and every major view, there's an understanding in scripture that at the end of the age, the gospel is going to grow and its impact and influence in the world, which means the church is going to grow, but also there's going to be greater persecution in the world. And then here's the part that I think we miss there's going to be a greater apostasy. People within the church doing damage within the church and turning away from Christ. False teaching, false confessions and professions. And so the church is just a messy, complicated thing when you when you think of it in those terms. You've got people in the church on a week-to-week basis who are not even regenerate. Jesus said that. And he's going to say, I don't know. I never knew you. You never want to mine. So the church is messy, it's complicated. It's a bunch of people with a bunch of baggage, with a bunch of background. And here's what I will say: this is what it all comes down to for me. If you want to get offended, you can. If you want to be hurt, you can. There's opportunity for you to be hurt and offended every single day. There's people going to let you. I mean, we talked early in this episode about expectations. Take that, apply it to the church. You can create expectations that then when they're not met, you can be hurt. If you've got church hurt, I would just say you're relying too much on the people in the church and less on the head of the church, which is Christ. And so you've got to press into Christ. And then you've got to just same, it's the same kind of thing with marriage. You've got to give grace, and then you learn from those experiences. You got to learn from them. I mean, I would be hypocritical to not point out we started Red Oak Church because I had been through multiple church hurt and drama and church splits. That doesn't mean the answer to church hurt is to go start a church. Because we started at Red Oak and within the first few years there was conflict and church hurt, right? And I realized, oh, starting a church is not the answer. Yeah. It's we're just a bunch of broken people. So temper your expectations. And if if you get hurt by somebody in the church, move on. Look to Jesus and move on. There's a there's a lot of people in the church that love the Lord and love you, but they're not perfect. Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 1:02:57

And I would agree with all those things. And also a lot of people are hurt in the church because of two things, I think. Um poor communication and poor perceptions. Like you think you've got all the details worked out in your mind, but you don't. You might not have all the information as to why the circumstance happened or who did what and when you're perceiving things to be there that might that's what outside of your pay grade or whatever, that kind of thing. And it's kind of like keep your eyes on your own paper situation where you're upset because you're seeing what so-and-so did to so-and-so, not even you involved. I think that's some things that people deal with too, is church hurt, because you get caught up in the drama of whatever's going on in your church. And the other thing I think is just poor communication. Like some, just because your pastor is like leading your church, it doesn't mean he's going to be the best administrative communicator outside of the pulpit, you know, and needs people to be like, I think what he really meant was he was trying to say this, you know, like what you're saying, give more grace and stuff. I think those are two big things that kind of get blown out. Instead of if you could sit down and have a conversation with a person and say, I'm feeling like sad towards this interaction that we had, or it hurt my emotional, like I felt bad when you said this or did this to have that open communication, but we're all just so insecure that we're afraid to go to other people and just have those hard conversations because it makes us feel uncomfortable. And that's exactly what the enemy wants to do to just to divide the church. Because he's what? A liar? And he hates you. Isn't that right? We hate him, but he is not wanting, it's not like Red Rover, come over to the good side. He's like, We're wanting to shut this church down. How can we do that? We're gonna sow dissension in this, we're gonna cause this person to think that that person said this because why not? That seems like a fun thing, you know. But the enemy's just like he hates us. He hates the church, he hates pastors, he hates the pastors' wives, he hates the kids, he hates it all. And so I think if we can just be humble to be like extending grace to people instead of just church hopping. Because, like you said, if you go to a new church without clearing up what has happened or tried to at least, you're just bringing that into the next church and the next um baggage that you're gonna be carrying along with you.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:26

That's a good point.

SPEAKER_05 1:05:27

And so I've I've talked with kids specifically this one situation, this alert girl was like, I've been to like six different churches and and this church is this and this church is this. And I was like, Okay, well, maybe you should stay at one church and find somebody to mentor you so you're able to like get those things worked through. But if you're just going to the next church, you're not able to like reconcile maybe with a community. Because within our family, just in our little hub, like if somebody messes up, we talk about it, we go through all of our feelings. We you know, and then we hug and we love them, and there might be consequences, but we still don't kick them out of our family. And it's similar with I think the churches is the quick fixes go somewhere else. But it's because we don't want to take the time to really get to the root of why is this person upset with me or what have I done or why do I feel this way? So I think getting curious too as to well, might what might be the because it might boil down to be like, oh, well, there's unconfessed in this person's life and they are in leadership. They shouldn't be. And so we need to help get them to like help the relationship with the Lord. But a lot of times I think it's just those kinds of things, miscommunication, perception.

SPEAKER_04 1:06:44

Yeah, I think perception is a huge one. I also think what you said, I think a lot of it does boil down if you are looking, but if you're looking for the church to fulfill, we talked about this in uh, I don't know when the queue will be posted, but we did an episode on codependency and in the Daniel three episode. If you look to the church to fulfill what Christ is intended to fulfill, then you're gonna get hurt, you're gonna get burned, you're gonna have your feelings hurt. But I think back to those Shadarak, Mishak, and Minigo and Daniel three, they had every right to be mad at King Nebuchadnezzar. Like he physically mutilated and took those boys from their home and did horrible things to those boys, and they were faced with him and could have been mean and hostile and held a grudge. And I'm sure like they dealt with that and fought with that. But it's they they held the word of the Lord so close and so dear to their heart, and that's what they were relying on. They were relying on the Lord, they weren't relying on the king or the government or their friends or their family, like they were truly relying on the Lord, which then gave them such a different type of love and burden. So you are able to forgive and have hard conversations. And um, yeah, I think that's all that was really good.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:58

But yeah, respect, yeah. That's good. Yeah. Right.

SPEAKER_05 1:12:43

But even Paul addresses like church hurt, like with um in what is it, Colossians whatever, three or four, where he's like, I entreat Eodia and Saint Chi ought to get along together, encourage them to get along together in Christ. Like there are moments in the scripture, like if I were being called out in scripture, I wouldn't want to be one of those ladies, you know. I'm like, oh, but they were, you know, called out, like help them agree. Might not have even been a sin situation, but just like a strangeness situation, you know, where it's like, well, we just don't want to, we don't like each other, we don't want to enjoy spending time with each other. But you do have to find some common ground in the Lord. And I think sometimes, especially when we're talking about women and this whole context of what we're talking about today, is that church hurt is she, something, something, something, and so I just left, you know, and that's not how women of strong, confident women of the Lord handle conflict and discipleship and humility and stuff like that. And so I would just encourage you to look in the scriptures there on how to resolve things too.

SPEAKER_04 1:13:49

Well, thanks for coming on, Amy. Yes, and thanks all you do for respond.

SPEAKER_01 1:13:53

It was awesome. You did a phenomenal job.

SPEAKER_05 1:13:55

It was a huge team effort. I loved it. The bumper video was so fun.

SPEAKER_01 1:14:00

The the I guess we could close by talking about the the teach and flow. Yeah, let's talk about that. It was like all these women in that are mentioned in the lineage of Jesus. Not one of them is like at first glance, like a healthy, wholesome upbringing and background. I didn't uh I didn't speak to this, but I even think about when Mary is ostracized for her unwed pregnancy. Nothing is said about her dad, but I wonder did he defend her?

SPEAKER_04 1:14:34

You know, it's a culture where women one of the one of the revolutionary things about Jesus' ministry is that he elevated women to not only women, it wasn't the pre high priest's wife, it was prostitutes and unwed pregnant women and you know, people you would not Sunday morning, I did a message on Tamar, and which is top of the top of the top of the shirt.

SPEAKER_01 1:15:03

Tamar, she's the first one after I guess Sarah. But um you know, you've got in each of the thing that stood out to me, what I would say to the dads that are listening, the thing that stands out to me with Tamar, Ahab, Ruth, and Mary would be um, and the exception might would be uh Bathsheba, because she was already married when things went down, and her husband was we know she was married to a very godly noble man. But those other four women, I'm and I'm talking about her first husband, Uriah, but the other four women, to me, as a as a girl dad, the glaring thing is where are their dads? Like Tamar gets sent home to live with her dad who puts her away in shame. Um and so I know one of the things that a lot of women in at that were at this event come in carrying. And the reason the Lord, I think, impressed on me to do that message on Tamar is 500 women in the room. At least 50% of them carry daddy wounds, or the wounds inflicted by a man, probably way north of 50%. Either the wounds from a dad or the wounds from a a a former boyfriend or an ex-husband or a current relationship that they're in, and to see that Jesus was bringing these women out of their brokenness and their pain. Um, and and I love the scene. There was a point that I made in the sermon where when Jesus is being baptized, he doesn't need to be baptized, he's identifying with us, he's identifying with sinners. When Jesus is going into the baptismal waters, he's taking me with him. But he's also taking Tamar, Rahab, women that lived hundreds of years before his time on earth. And he's dying. I mean, he's uh being baptized in a symbolic picture of death, burial, and resurrection, taking them with him and and cleansing and purifying and giving value and salvation of them. It was a cool theme. It was a cool teaching theme. All the teachers did a great job.

SPEAKER_05 1:17:09

All the your talk on Mary, I mean, on um Tamar was great when you started off with all these women in common, they were desperate. That whole desperation piece there, where they're almost all of them were just like, hold this, and they just went and took control because Sarah's like, God said we're gonna have children. Here's here's my servant, you know. And it's just like all of them had this, just like watch this. Like, I'm gonna, God said, here we go. He said he was gonna give me one of his sons, watch this, let me go, you know, and I I just think that was really impressionable on me of just like take action. You know, God is going to, I mean, not recklessly, but just like don't be so afraid to take a step forward in something that God has put on your heart to do. Like if you need to go down and help this lady at your church, but you're like, I don't know really how to help it, just go trust, go start, clean your house, do something, get some you know, dishes going, just go do something, but don't let that fear like hold you back or wait. Sometimes you're the one that needs to take a step forward. I just I love that part about the desperation. The other thing was what um what Brooke talked about. Um, I I felt personally just encouraged because at Respond, it's not like these are women who travel and that's their profession is to speak at all these women conferences and they're booked all year round. I mean, these are women who are faithful to the Lord, serving in their communities at their churches with their husbands in ministry or not. And they're sharing the Lord, like they're they're sharing what God is teaching them and how they're staying faithful to Jesus. And we're encouraging the women who are there to do the same. So it doesn't have to be a big, like um known speaker to come to respond. Like it's like we're here to spur one another on to faithfulness. The scriptures teach us to do that, and that's what we're doing. And I love that women come back every year because that's what they want from Snowbird. And this is not like our like Snowbird's main mission is not to minister to women. And so there are little like things that um are different for the women's retreat than it is for all the other retreats that go on in Snowbird. Like all the teachers are not on staff, you know, and just different things like that. But I love how everything comes together because everyone's able to be like, I can identify with her. Oh, yeah, that's a teacher. I identify with her too. And it's just so encouraging. That was such a big encouragement. It always boosts me up right before we go into the summer thing, you know. It's always like I get really fired up for the summer with this. So I'm very, very thankful for respond. It has really become one of my favorite weekends of the year, and I'm glad I get to be a part of it. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:19:57

Yeah. And it's the last event of the year before summer. I know it. We're getting ready to ramp it up.

SPEAKER_05 1:20:02

Yes, we are. Let's go. This will be year 26 for me.

SPEAKER_01 1:20:08

That's wild.

SPEAKER_05 1:20:10

That's crazy.

SPEAKER_01 1:20:10

That's wild. 26 years.

SPEAKER_05 1:20:13

I mean, how many years have you like 32, 33? Some. I don't know.

SPEAKER_01 1:20:18

This will be my 33rd, I think, summer.

SPEAKER_04 1:20:23

Because next year is technically our 30th. Snowbirds stop officially. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:20:29

And I've done three years before that.

SPEAKER_04 1:20:31

So that's crazy.

SPEAKER_01 1:20:33

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 1:20:34

That's wild.

SPEAKER_01 1:20:35

Pretty wild. Yeah. Thanks for coming on.

SPEAKER_05 1:20:38

Yeah, thanks for having me. I love it.

SPEAKER_01 1:20:40

Let us know what you're talking about. Let us know what you think.

SPEAKER_05 1:20:42

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:20:42

Give us if there's more questions, if you'd like for us to do a follow-up, we're glad to do it. Love getting suggestions. Uh, we'll see y'all next week.

SPEAKER_00 1:20:53

Thanks for listening to No Sanity Required. Please take a moment to subscribe and leave a rating. It really helps. Visit us at swoutfitters.com to see all of our programming and resources. We'll see you next week on No Sanity Required.