In this episode, we continue our conversation about the balancing act employees face with work and caregiving, and what they need from their employers.
Dr. Glenn Pransky, a physician and internationally-recognized researcher in work and health and Annie Jantz, product lead for Lincoln’s leave management product discuss where an employer can start and what to be observing along the way. From leave policy reviews, innovative solutions, and our expectation to learn more in the years ahead, there is a lot for employers to consider.
AM-LAAOF-AUD001 02/24 Z01 LCN-6420666-022224
©2024 Lincoln National Corporation. All rights reserved.
In this episode, we continue our conversation about the balancing act employees face with work and caregiving, and what they need from their employers.
Dr. Glenn Pransky, a physician and internationally-recognized researcher in work and health and Annie Jantz, product lead for Lincoln’s leave management product discuss where an employer can start and what to be observing along the way. From leave policy reviews, innovative solutions, and our expectation to learn more in the years ahead, there is a lot for employers to consider.
AM-LAAOF-AUD001 02/24 Z01 LCN-6420666-022224
©2024 Lincoln National Corporation. All rights reserved.
In this episode of Lincoln Absence Advisor, we continue our conversation with Dr. Glenn. Pransky a physician and internationally recognized researcher in work and health and Annie Jantz product lead for Lincoln's leave management product about the employer responsibilities when it comes to taking care of our employee caregivers. Our discussion focuses in on how to use that caregiving definition we talk about in episode one to your advantage, as well as the elements of your leave strategy, you should review and consider so you're growing with the expanding need of your employees. According to aging summit, caregiving costs U.S. companies around 522 billion in lost productivity annually prior to 2020, is this need for a kind of non traditional benefit going to grow in importance for employers based on the demonstrated effect we've seen this have on us companies?
Annie Jantz:I think so. Yes. That's a lot to that number. Um, not surprising, but it's not an issue that's going to go away. It's always been there. I think COVID has really highlighted it. And again, it's amplified the issue. We already see some employers trying to come up with some solutions or working through solutions for employees that are dealing with caregiving. I think that's going to continue. I think there's still a lot to probably think about and figure out how to work through that, to help employees feel productive because, um, and I think Dr. Pransky even said this, you know, people who are giving a hundred percent at caregiving are probably trying to give a hundred percent at work too. And that is really hard, but they want to be productive. They don't want to feel like they're always leaving work and, you know, taking time away and all of this. So I think it's working through and finding those solutions to help the employee feel productive, but yet be able to take those responsibilities. And that's not always an easy balance. I'm hoping that we'll find some creative solutions coming out of all of us.
Dr. Glenn Pransky:Annie, I agree. And I go back to the study that you mentioned earlier that was conducted before COVID and that found that a third of caregivers had changed jobs previously because whatever job they had before didn't accommodate their caregiving needs. So it basically shows that those employers that address this in a proactive and truly supportive way are going to have a hiring advantage for the best talent.
Annie Jantz:Yeah, absolutely. That seems to be a big draw on, you know, the benefits, what they're offering and how they're helping employees to deal with these issues. That is a big draw for new talent and retaining talent.
Karen Batson:Do you think employers are aware of the impact of this and impact of them supporting caregiving needs has on their business?
Dr. Glenn Pransky:No. Um, I've studied health impacts on productivity for more than 20 years. And what I find is that employees do their best to keep these challenges out of the workplace and to maintain their productivity. So they might be able to look at absence data, or maybe they have signs of productivity or employee availability, but, you know, what's really going to tell them is like more working mothers quitting. That might be an indicator, but again, people really try hard to not let these outcomes happen. On the other hand, if they do an anonymous survey, I don't see any reason that they wouldn't get the same results that we've been talking about in the studies we've been quoting here.
Annie Jantz:I agree with that. I think, you know, there are probably some employers that might be more in tune with, you know, what's going on in their workforce, but I definitely think you're right. It's not an easy thing to get to. And unless somebody is telling you, Hey, look, I'm dealing with this issue. You may not even know. And depending on your attendance policy, how you're looking at these absences, are people calling in or going home early or coming in late, whatever the situation is, you may not even realize what's going on. And the employee may not know they have access to certain benefits or resources. So yeah, I think it might be hard for them to gauge what they have. And I agree a survey, I think is a great idea to find out what your employees are facing.
Karen Batson:How can employers adopt a paid leave policy that addresses caregiving needs beyond sick time or parental leave?
Annie Jantz:So that's a good question. And again, it goes back to the individual employee or the individual employer, excuse me, and, you know, deciding what they want to offer. So, you know, looking at your own internal policies, how broad do you really want your leave policy to be for your company leave? You know, do you want to expand your leave reasons so that people can take time off for things that typically wouldn't be, you know, like, like the school event, taking your child or at a school meeting or something that you wouldn't typically see leave for, and then looking at your relationships, you know, how broad do you want that to cover? So I think it's, again, it's looking at what you're able to do, working with your employment counsel. Um, how much do you want to offer your staff? And I think some of it has to start with what employees are dealing with. And so you don't want to come at it blind. You want to know a little bit more about what's going on in your own workforce to then decide how you define your policy.
Dr. Glenn Pransky:Yes, I think that's the starting point is find out what your employees really need. We have a couple of customers that really have designed their leave policy around what they're hearing from their workforce, and it enabled them to develop some very targeted focused solutions. And a lot of it was about episodic leave and job flexibility, and the employees felt listened to about issues that are really tough. And, and that was huge. That was really positive for them. Annie, what are some other leave related benefits that you're hearing about that employees want?
Annie Jantz:So I think, you know, really the biggest thing right now is school, childcare. Like that's been the topic I think that we've seen the most common or, you know, still caring for a sick family member. Company paid leave or company leave. We're starting to see more trends where employers are trying to find a balance with this caregiving solution. But I think it's really hard because, you know, where do you draw the line on some of those leaves that a person might take off, but a lot of it is related to being able to care for my child at home. Like, can I take off during the day for four hours or two hours, whatever it is, that period where they have to help them get logged in, be in their class, get their work done, and then can I resume work later? So we're seeing a lot of that. And those aren't typical leave situations, except maybe they're taking some intermittent. I know a lot of employers, larger employers who were not subject to like the FFCRA that required some leave for child daycare or school closures have implemented some of that in their company leave policies to help those employees. I haven't seen as much or heard as much with elder care. And that's the one where, you know, I'd like to see a little bit more or what is happening in that space. Again, I think I see a lot focused on childcare. I'm not saying that there's not on elder care out there. I just haven't seen as much of it, but, you know, it tends to be a lot of the flexibility in helping people who are working from home and dealing with kids.
Karen Batson:Now throughout this conversation, we've mentioned other ways to support other programs, other benefits that employers can provide. Are we seeing innovative thoughts from employers and what they're developing is there a need for kind of the out of the box thinking when it comes to caregiving?
Dr. Glenn Pransky:Yes, there really is. And there's a couple things that I've seen that are very exciting that I think will persist past the end of the pandemic. One of them is this idea about jobs sharing and using technology so that two workers can really manage a single job. And when somebody is not working, they can use technology to sort of be aware of what's going on. So when it's their turn to take half of the job, they can jump right in. So they don't have to be an active participant during the off time that they can kind of lurk passively. So they're really ready to go. The other thing that's been very successful during the pandemic is the idea of daycare pods. And this really goes back to, you know, late 18 hundreds where a group of moms would get together and somebody would take the major responsibility for all three kids in the little group, uh, during the day so that the others could go to work. And that idea has sort of been resurfaced now, and now it's especially important because it means that your COVID safe pod is extended only by two families instead of by 20 families and a whole bunch of daycare workers. And, you know, if you have three families, maybe that just means it's one person in each family is off work a day a week, and some employers have recognized this potential and they have a large enough workforce that they have offered sort of an in-house retained expert to help people set this up. So here's the liability forms. Here's the things you want to do. Here's a set of procedures. Here's something that everybody should agree to for this to go well, and it's really helpful if a third party comes in and can lead you through that. So you don't have to think about how you're going to have all these conversations with your friends about what you will and won't do during this time. So the other side of that is you could do the same thing for eldercare, but there is there are some very good developments with community in home and in community elder care. And a lot of that was on hold during the pandemic, but I think we'll get back to that. And again, with the pod concept or, you know, with visiting social services and there's respite services that have been available that will reopen that can provide people with the break when they need to just get a couple of days away from their elder, who might be problematic. And then finally, I want to mention that in Japan, they're using more and more technology to provide remote elder care, robots that really can interact with an elderly person. And it offers the possibility that one home care worker could simultaneously monitor four or five elderly people living alone and respond instantly in case a problem occurs. So all this is really exciting and I think it's accelerated by COVID, but as we've said before, Annie, like, as you were talking about with the nursing home situation, I don't think we're going to go fully back to how things were before.
Annie Jantz:That's really interesting. I had heard about the robots as well, which I find fascinating. I think that technology is a huge thing. So who knows what will be coming in the future? I've loved the concept of the pods as well. I think that's a great idea. And I think there's gotta be a lot of creative solutions that are still out there and on the forefront of coming forward. Right. I look forward to seeing what people come up with. Some of what I've seen from employers that, you know, have rolled out some programs it's been, you know, supporting daycare, obviously in terms of like backup assistance. So if you have, maybe you don't have a daycare open, but you need one. Even if you're working from home, maybe there's a time where you have to have some childcare. There are employers who are trying to help pay for some of the costs of that. Or if you have, you know, employees that are so going into the office or they, they have, um, a job where they can't work from home, they're offering some of that assistance as well. And then, you know, obviously adjusting their leave. We've seen some of that and their, um, company leave what they want to provide their employees. And a lot of resources. That's probably been the biggest thing that I've seen so far is just what they're trying to get out to their employees to say, Hey, this is something you might want to look into that may help you find some way to get some care for your parent while you're trying to work or for your child or for yourself even right, to take care of yourself. If you're feeling stressed out, which a lot of people are just stressed out from the pandemic itself, let alone everything else that you know, with caregiving. So I think there's still a lot to come. I know there's been a lot of articles about employers that are still researching this and trying to figure out the best solution for their employees. So I really look forward to seeing, you know, what, what this brings.
Karen Batson:You know, based on a lot of your answers to that question takes me back to how you guys defined caregiving and really looking for resources that help share that responsibility based on your definition. It takes a village, right? So it's kind of interesting to see that that's what the question we're answering. Now can caregiving from an employer perspective, be solved by multiple programs, benefits, resources, or is it better to have a caregiving program that's holistic?
Annie Jantz:You know, I think it probably depends on what it looks like. I think if you have a holistic program, that's great, but I also think there's benefit in having different programs for different needs. So I think it really just kind of depends on what comes out of it. The holistic approach is nice because you can try to encompass everything, but you could miss something. And so sometimes it depends on how specific it is, childcare and elder care needs, there are similarities that cross paths, but there are also a lot of differences there too. So yeah, I just, I really think it depends on what's provided and what the program looks like.
Dr. Glenn Pransky:As long as people aren't thinking that one size fits all, because I think that's what we've learned is that each situation is so unique.
Annie Jantz:Right. It is.
Karen Batson:Absolutely. Now, are there any positive solutions that we've learned from 2020 that can kind of support this growing need for caregiving?
Dr. Glenn Pransky:Well, in my world, one of the big pluses is telemedicine. So think about people caring for kids or elderly, especially the elderly who might have five doctor's appointments a month. You can do them all online. And for me, it's been huge. I can be the third party on the appointment with my mom in one of her important doctors talking about her cardiac status. And that just wasn't possible a year ago. And for me, it's huge. I don't have to fly to North Carolina and go in a hospital. I just need to schedule it. And telemedicine has also opened up more hours because for providers, it's much less of a hassle to be at home doing telemedicine visits in the evening than having to be there in person in a hospital. So that also means that people that are taking care of their elderly parents at home are more likely to be able to access a doctor's appointment for their elderly parent in the evening. And we know that for many things, these visits are as effective as in-person visits.
Annie Jantz:Yeah, I completely agree. I love the telemedicine. I think that is huge. You know, I mentioned my, my daughter's a diabetic earlier, so I always go with her to her appointments so I can hear what her doctors telling her she needs to do, make sure she follows through. Um, but you know, normally an appointment might take us two hours driving down there and going through and getting back. And so the telemedicine, it was so easy. She can be on the line with the doctor. I can jump off work for, you know, 15, 20 minutes be back at work rather than taking two hours of time out of work just to go down, you know, to go through it. So that that's been huge. I think that is a great thing. That's come out of this and that everybody's willing to accept it. Right. Like telemedicine for FMLA has been like, that's fine. Like it's, everybody's kind of opening up and saying, yeah, I think this is okay if you want to validate something through telemedicine. So I think it's a good thing and more access to your doctor. I really like it. I've used it several times myself. I also think that 2020 as rough as i t's been, and the added stress i t's put on people for caregiving responsibilities, I think it's also in the end been a good thing that it's brought to light all of these issues for people. So it's let the employer really see into their e mployee's world a little bit. Right. And how difficult it is and how much, or how many maybe employees are dealing with these issues. So I think it's harder to ignore and I think, you know, things will calm down and we'll get back to normal again, whatever that means. But I think this will still be at the forefront that people will remember, remember the flexibility they had during this time with work from home. And, you know, it just, it changes things a little bit moving forward. So I think that's a good thing.
Karen Batson:Now we know this is a hot topic. We're probably going to learn even more this year. What do you think employers should be doing now around this topic? And what do you think they should be paying attention to that might be coming?
Annie Jantz:So I definitely think it's a good time to look at their policies that they have in place their, you know, their requirements under their own leave policies, just in general, they're looking at their policies for their employees and specifically how caregiving plays into that. So I think that's a really good place to start. I think looking at your employees, asking some questions during a survey, whatever that means to get a feel for what's going on and what your employees feel they need to be supported is really important. One place to pay attention to some of the larger employers. A lot of times they'll drive some of these trends as well, and you'll see them coming out with different solutions or benefits offerings for caregiving support. I think it's something to watch and pay attention to. It doesn't work for every employer. So, you know, you may have to say, well, that won't work for us, but maybe something else, you know, adjusting certain things here and there will work. I think it's watching that, you know, paying attention to as employees get back into the workplace and continue to work from home, you know, what shifting what's taking place. Do we need to do more conversations about how has this changed for you? You know, now that maybe we're getting past COVID, everybody's vaccinated now, what are you doing for elder care? Like, how is this changing? I think it's going to be keeping a pulse on your people to find out how their needs are shifting and changing, and then really looking at your policies, a hard look. And that might mean now. And then again, in the future to decide if there's something that you can offer them and then educate your employees on what they have available today, whether it's leave resources, their EAP, whatever it is that you offer, just make sure they understand. And they know what that is.
Dr. Glenn Pransky:Yes, I agree. It's important to find out what's going on now, what's working and what's not working, but also it's a good idea to talk to workers and find out what they think is going to go back to the way it was before. And what's going to stay in this new state of increased caregiving and I'm a data guy, but there's really not a lot of data out there to tell us, well, these are major trends that are not going to change. So I think it's important for employers to really start asking questions, of their employees to find out what do they need now and what do they anticipate needing in the future. And to also think about the burden of caregiving in terms of making sure that everything's in place to take care of their physical and mental health
Annie Jantz:Right.
Karen Batson:Now under the umbrella of caregiving, what are you both most curious about and curious about seeing what might happen in the future with it?
Dr. Glenn Pransky:I wonder how many of these changes are going to be permanent and what other positive lessons, like what we learned about tele-health are going to come out of this experience. I'm really excited about that.
Annie Jantz:Yeah. And, you know, I wonder what everything will look like a year from now, you know? Um, and it's kinda, I guess it's kind of the same thing. It's like how much is going to stay. That's changed already. What's going to go back to the way it was, you know, what are things going to look like? Um, I'm very curious about that. And I think the needs of the caregiver may change and shift a little bit. And so it'll be interesting to see kind of how that plays out. I'm also really curious about the innovative ideas that are out there. Like I just know that there's some, you know, some work going on. There's a lot of studies, there's a lot of talk about caregiving. And so I'm just, I'm excited to see what will come out of that, uh, whether it's leave or resources or, you know, whatever it is. I'm very interested and curious to see how that plays out.
Karen Batson:So last question, what do you think is the most important thing we covered today that our audience should take away?
Annie Jantz:So I think caregiving, it's a very personal journey and we've talked quite a bit about some of our own experiences today and, you know, every person's situation is unique to them and it's going to be a little bit different. And then a lot of ways they're very much the same. Like there are some things that are the same across the board. And so I think we've kind of talked about how you can't have a one size fits all solution, but then there are some things that will work for people. Like there's, there needs to be options, I guess, like we've talked about that there needs to be different solutions, different things will work for different communities of people or different employers. And, you know, again, I just think it's, it's a very unique situation. I, that being able to talk openly about it and even just our own experiences has been, I think very interesting. And I've learned quite a bit just doing that, you know, and I think there's more to come. I think there's a lot still here to talk about.
Dr. Glenn Pransky:Annie, I think you have summarized the key points, one size doesn't fit all, and that you've got to talk to employees to find out what's really top of mind and what's most important to them. And that flexibility is so important. And this is where leave really fits in is allowing people to know that they're not going to lose their job when the unexpected happens, because so much of caregiving is all about the unexpected and dealing with it. And that it's not all a negative, it can be a very, very positive experience and the employer can be part of that.
Annie Jantz:Right. I think that's a great note as well. Dr. Pransky and I'm glad you brought that up, cause it, it definitely can be a positive experience as well. It's not all negative.
Karen Batson:Well, thank you both. This was a fantastic conversation, a great way to kick off season two.
Annie Jantz:Thank you Karen.
Dr. Glenn Pransky:Thank you. I've really enjoyed this.
Annie Jantz:Yes, me too.
Karen Batson:Thank you everyone for listening and thank you to Dr. Glenn Pransky and Annie Jantz for joining me today. We hope you liked today's episode and will tell us by rating us sharing the episode or subscribing to Lincoln Absence Adviser on Apple, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts.
Disclosures:The information contained in this podcast is for general use and is not a substitute for the advice of an attorney or your human resource professional. Lincoln Financial Group is the marketing name for Lincoln National corporation and its affiliates. Affiliates are separately responsible for their own financial and contractual obligations.