The latest state budget outlook. Fiscal implications for schools. Safely reopening campuses. Tips for successful negotiations. These topics and more were on the table when school business leaders and state fiscal experts gathered remotely the week before Thanksgiving for CASBO's CBO Symposium.
We can't possibly convey all the insights and information packed into those two days. But in this episode we do bring you highlights, key takeaways and a flavor for this year’s event.
The Symposium coincided with release of the State Legislative Analyst Office's latest Budget Fiscal Outlook, which projects a dramatic rebound in overall state revenues in the current budget year, and a $13.7 billion increase in funds available to schools and community colleges. That's cause for much optimism, though budget experts recommend a healthy amount of caution as well, since the outlook in future years remains cloudy with potential deficits.
Hear highlights as Symposium presenters including Edgar Cabral, Deputy for K-12 Education at the Legislative Analyst's Office, Michael Fine, CEO of the Fiscal Crisis and Management Assistance Team (FCMAT), Sara Bachez, CASBO Chief Governmental Relations Officer, Kevin Gordon, President of Capitol Advisors Group, John Gray, President of School Services of California, and nationally regarded economist Robert Kleinhenz shed light on key economic indicators, budget projections, payment deferrals, other vital aspects of the state budget deal -- and they explore how school districts might approach planning.
We also listen in as CBOs and other school business leaders share how their different districts are navigating the pandemic and related fiscal challenges.
For even more information on safely reopening schools, also check out this recent webinar hosted by the California Collaborative for Educational Excellence, COVID-19 Updates and Public Schools: A Conversation with State Public Health Leaders.
ABOUT THE CALIFORNIA ASSOCIATION OF SCHOOL BUSINESS OFFICIALS
CASBO is the premier resource for professional development and business best practices for California's school business leaders. Be sure to visit CASBO.org for the latest budget news and more information about the many valuable professional development programs, including the new CASBO Work Wise Webinar Series. Follow on Twitter at @CASBO
Your series guide Paul Richman is a public education advocate and consultant. Follow on Twitter at @pjr100.
Contact us at email@example.com
CASBO CBO Summit:
Opening medley of speakers:
"We do see some significant improvements that have helped our state’s revenue situation..."
"What you're experiencing is just how complex the issues are."
"Apportionment deferrals are the issue of the year. The challenge of course, is building strong cashflow, projections, monitoring, updating those projections and avoiding negative cash balances."
"We have budget subcommittees right now, where we have parents and everyone involved..."
"We're coming into negotiations, looking at the entirety of the district. We have to take into consideration all the financial implications of a settlement..."
"...The heartbeat of the economy, gross domestic product, economic activity, really bears taking a look…"
"A really strong call to action on spending those CARES funds, that stands out to us…"
"We started testing today. We signed the contract on Monday and we're going to test all employees every month.
"Take good care of yourself, make sure your team is taking care of themselves…
"I'm always proud to talk about my job and the people I work with. I feel like all the CBOs across the state, there's such a great group of people.
Theme music begins.
Paul Richman, series guide:
When chief school business officials from districts and county offices of education across the state get together the week before Thanksgiving -- and amid an ongoing health and economic crisis -- what's the conversation like?
That’s what we’ll explore on this edition of Adventures in Ed Funding, the podcast series presented by the California Association of School Business Officials. We recorded this episode during CASBO’s recent CBO symposium, a major annual event that connects school business practitioners with other budget experts and economists.
With counties throughout the state seeing a whole lot of purple due to the surge in COVID-19 infections, this year's event, like so many others, was switched to an all-virtual format. The CBO Symposium also coincided with some dramatic news released by the state's Legislative Analyst's Office about California's overall state budget forecast. Turns out there's cause for some real optimism, although as we often do, we'll serve that up with a hearty side dish of caution.
Theme music ends.
Hi, again, it's me, Paul Richman. Thanks for being with us! For two days last week,I got to take an adventure further inside the world of school business by participating in the CBO Symposium. A full slate of guest speakers shared timely information and advice about the overall economy, budget planning, negotiations, safely reopening campuses, and a whole lot more. Of course, we can't convey all the insights and details packed into those two days of sessions. The goal here is to give you a flavor -- and to lift up some of the highlights and key takeaways.
Sound of steps.
Listen, do you hear that? That's me taking the 14 steps from the upstairs bedroom down to the kitchen, where I’ll be logging into the Symposium. Not such a tough road trip, actually. It's sort of nice not to have to drive bleary eyed in the November fog to the airport to catch an early flight. Another advantage of remote conferences: no need to have to pack the night before. This is my first big conference in sweatpants. Don't tell anyone.
There’s usually a special buzz that first morning before the opening session, as people are filing in and reacquainting. And this morning at my laptop, there is still a palpable anticipation. It's foremost on the minds of just about everyone: the big news released just a day or two earlier -- a new report from the state Legislative Analyst's Office, the LAO -- one projecting a dramatic rebound for California's budget.
As good timing would have it, Edgar Cabral, Seputy of the K through 12 education unit in the LAO’s office, was the opening presenter at the Symposium. CASBO’s CEO and executive director, Tatia Davenport, invited Edgar onto the virtual stage to get this under way.
Good morning, Edgar, and welcome.
Good morning, Tatia. Thank you for that introduction. Our office is, for as long as I know, has been presenting at this conference; it's perfectly aligned with when our office publishes our Fiscal Outlook of the state's fiscal situation. And so we always look forward to presenting to you all what we see in terms of the upcoming budget year.
The non-partisan Legislative Analyst's Office focuses primarily on providing fiscal and policy analysis and recommendations to the legislature. The annual fiscal outlook that Edgar is here to share is similar in ways to the types of multi-year projections that school districts prepare. In this case, it projects revenues and costs for the coming four fiscal years for the state as a whole. There's a whole lot of great information about California's budget and economy in the full report. And we'll provide links to that in the show notes.
Edgar, as we said, had some very welcome news to bring. "According to the LAO, although the state economy remains below pre-pandemic levels by many measures, there has been a remarkable rebound in state revenues since the 2020-21 budget was enacted.
Many of us even internally, were very surprised at kind of the rebound that we see in terms of the state's fiscal outlook. So we have about $26 billion -- we're calling it a $26 billion windfall -- in the current year. So, it's a kind of complex story here where things are much, much better than we anticipated in the current year, revenues are much higher, but it doesn't necessarily result in sort of ongoing surpluses. It's a sort of one-year windfall…
Blues music begins.
This is of course a big change from the fiscal blues we were singing just a few months ago. We actually went from a robust outlook in January with the governor proposing billions of new spending for education, to May when the governor proposed a historic level of cuts to schools, to June and an ultimate budget deal with the legislature that spared schools any programmatic cuts but relied on an enormous $13 billion in deferred payments...to this latest projection. The LAO report now estimates that after accounting for various baseline adjustments, the legislature has $13.7 billion in one-time funds and $4.2 billion in ongoing funds available for schools and community colleges in the upcoming budget cycle.
In a strange way, e've nearly gone full circle. I guess that's 2020 for you, right?
Initially, some phrases like "extremely rosy scenario" and "cause for great celebration" greeted this news of the new LAO projections. But there's perhaps no one like a virtual room full of CBOs and budget experts to urge some added context and caution. It's in their blood, I think.
"While rosy, there are significant challenges," said one of the morning's next presenters, Michael Fine, the CEO of FCMAT.
“We should think of this more as a reset than a windfall,” advised another presenter.
For one thing, they both caution, these are still only projections and as Edgar and other presenters emphasize, projections can change. They're based on the best information we have right now, but nothing is certain. And we've certainly learned that in 2020.
So, while the fiscal outlook is absolutely welcome news and cause for at least great relief in the current budget year, the LAO report still notes that budget deficits and challenges remain in the future years.
I think one way to think about it as well, is that a lot of the [budget] solutions that the state took on in 2021, they were, one time in nature. They were primarily, you know, borrowing from the special funds, taking funding out of the reserves, cost shifts, things like that that did not have ongoing solutions. And so, because of that, in 2021-2022, you can see here in our chart, if you look at the expenditure line, our expenditures are growing by about $8 billion, and it's partly because many of the expenditure reductions were one-time; now that they are back, you have increased costs. So this chart has a lot of numbers, but I tried to highlight here this little rectangle…
As you might imagine, Edgar had a lot of slides with charts and numbers to share. You can find them all in the LAO’s full report that's linked to in the show notes.
What we have now is a situation where the state is under operating deficits throughout the period. So, it's a smaller deficit in this coming fiscal year. It's about $2 billion, but then by the time we get to 2024-25, we project the deficit would be about $17 billion. The windfall is substantial, but it's not enough to cover all that operating deficit. So obviously solutions are needed to get the state's budget back in balance, or we think they will be needed based on our predictions.
If you follow even the good news that Edgar shared this morning, remember what he said about the out years – it’s only a mild growth in Proportion 98 after this one-time windfall in the current year in 2021-22…
That's Michael Fine; he’s the CEO at FCMAT – the state’s Fiscal Crisis and Management Assistance Team. He helped translate the LAO’s projections into more of the nuts and bolts of what school districts should be thinking about and considering in planning their own budgets.
So, our out-year forecasts, as you appreciate, are difficult during declines because we don't know where things are at. Even with the good news Edgar shared with you this morning, there are significant challenges in those numbers. The challenge around what do you put in your MYP still remains; maybe that some risk factors have changed a little bit…
MYP, for those keeping score of acronyms at home, is short for Multi-Year Projections. And by the way, that clicking you hear while Mike is speaking – that’s me busily jotting notes. I’ve been told I’m an unusually loud typer. Sorry.
...It's not my intent to throw a wet blanket on positive news, but there are a lot of uncertainties. There are a lot of unknowns and the bottom line is the LAO doesn’t set the budget; the governor proposes it [with] the department of finance. And there will definitely be a slightly different view there with respect to how they look at some of the numbers.
Indeed, many issues and considerations still need to be unpacked. The LAO's report is really just the first note in a much longer symphony that will be played out in the coming months. Key questions include: Will the upbeat revenue projections hold for the rest of the year? And when and how does the governor and legislature pay down the $13 billion in deferrals to schools, something most everyone agrees is prudent?
In January could we eliminate the 2021 deferrals? The answer to that is "yes," and Edgar alluded to that -- though the idea behind that I don't see as realistic. I think a much more realistic look is that that windfall from this year, if the legislature and the administration agree to eliminate the deferrals, that that will be done next year, so the deferrals are not ongoing -- more than it will be done in this current year.
**NOTE: To brush up on what are budget deferrals and how they're included in this year's state budget deal, listen to "Everything You Need to Know About California School Budget Deferrals" -- our recent Adventures in Ed Funding podcast episode featuring Matt Phillips from School Services of California.
There's another element agreed to in the 2020 21 budget deal that sought both to offer some cushion from the lack of new funding and commit to raising education funding over time. It's known as supplemental payments. This is a subject that's going to receive a whole lot more attention in the upcoming months, but just to provide a quick sense of what it's about:
Well, as part of this [latest] budget, one thing that was recognized as we started to see a decline in Proposition 98 was the need to have some security in stabilizing our funding long-term, and that's where the supplemental payment proposal came in and was part of this budget.
If you listen regularly to this podcast, you know that voice of course. That's Sara Bachez, CASBO's chief governmental relations officer. She and budget expert Kevin Gordon from Capitol Advisors Group delved into the supplemental payments issue as part of another symposium session.
The reason why this is important is [that] the Legislative Analyst has actually said in the narrative of their report, that they're calling for the legislature to potentially revisit this issue, given the fact, as they put it, schools will not end up having the kind of depth of cuts or depth of fiscal challenges they would have otherwise had. What we want to respond with -- and it really was the way Sarah framed this up at the beginning -- that money was not just about just this one urgency. It was the culmination of advocacy efforts on the governor and the legislature about the idea, what is the condition of base funding in California? It was an attempt (and even the governor said this) of making sure that we addressed issues of base funding.
And when you take a look at what those dollars proposed, there's two components to the supplemental funding piece. One of them is a 1.5 percent of General Fund that would be given to us [each year] until it reaches about $12.4 billion. And there is a correlation between that and the deferrals that we were going to be taking. But the other part boosts the Prop. 98 essential funding level predicated on what we get as a percentage of the General Fund from 38 percent to 40 percent, and that creates benefits over time as well. So those extra dollars are extremely important in giving us the latitude to respond a little bit to the questions that we've been raising about base funding.
I know that’s a lot budget-ese to digest all at once. The bottom line, at least for now, according to Sara:
I think it's too premature to start already walking backwards and saying, let's undo this proposal when we don't know what the landscape looks like, and as the state, as 94 percent of the state, is back in the "purple."
There is more to come, much more, on this subject in the months ahead.
The positive change in state budget projections is much different than the overall state economic situation that many Californians are experiencing. We know many people are hurting, millions of jobs still lost, housing squeezed or lost. And that hit has been disproportionate. California is not out of this by any stretch, but because of the way the state budget revenues are generated and how certain sectors like technology are still doing so well, we have what some refer to as this K-shaped recovery, Lenny Mendonca, the Governor's former chief economic advisor, described this in one of our most recent episodes. Mike Fine from FCMAT elaborated at the symposium.
You're all familiar with the V recovery, where we go down immediately, we go up immediately; the U recovery, where there's a little delay; the L recovery, which is what we had in the great recession where we sat at the bottom for a while. We have a new letter that we're now talking about and that's the K recovery. And the concept here is there are two legs to the recovery, the upward leg of the K, which, I think it's actually School Services that coined this idea that that's the Wall Street leg, and the lower leg that has been coined the Main Street leg. And so those with wealth, those who own property, homes, those with higher levels of education, generally white folks, generally well-educated as Edgar's slide alluded to -- they're doing very well…
So many of the families that our public schools serve are currently on the lower leg of that K shape, and more, so much more, needs to be done to push for a recovery that lifts everyone, starting with those who need it the most.
It's day two of the CASBO CBO symposium, and so, I'm just going to log in here....Just need to basically find the email with the link and click "enter the main stage" and that’s sending me to Zoom, you all know the drill, Zoom and then that little box that's saying that it's going to allow me to enter, and boom, just like that, we're back at the CASBO 2020 21 CBO symposium.
CASBO CEO and executive director, Tasha Davenport has been doing a great job of emceeing the symposium -- setting the tone, introducing guests, facilitating questions, sharing recaps. She has just turned the mic over to the first speaker of day two, Robert Kleinhenz. Robert is an economist with more than 30 years of experience working in the private and public sectors and academia. Straight away, he delves into some of his charts
Practically overnight, from February to April and May, we saw that unemployment rates quadrupled, going from 4 percent in California to over 16% in April and May. In the case of the United States as a whole, we saw the unemployment rate surge to over 14 percent, and so back then I was talking about this set of circumstances as pushing the "pause" button on the economy to deal with the coronavirus and to get it in under control. So consequently, what we're seeing is that we continue to have elevated unemployment rates. We are clawing back the jobs that were lost during the pandemic shutdown, but we have a lot of progress to make going forward.
Robert's economic presentation on the overall national and state economies is another highly anticipated staple of this annual symposium. It's a report he titled for this year, “Resourcefulness required.”
So we're currently at 6.9 percent unemployment for the nation, and we just heard at 8:30 this morning that the unemployment rate for California is now down to 9.3 percent, so that’s good, we’re in single digits. So much of that unemployment that we're looking at right now is showing up in the sectors that you're seeing here, the hardest hit sectors. Leisure and hospitality is by far the one that was the hardest hit and is the slowest to recover; retail, healthcare -- these are all face-to-face sectors where face-to-face interaction is a vital part of the activity that people engage in in these businesses. They're coming back, but they're coming back more slowly than some of the other sectors of the economy.
Robert takes us through slides and more slides, each pointing to vital signs for the national economy and California’s. Part of what's so valuable about this presentation I find is that we get a view across the whole system so we can better understand how all the components are fitting together. Regarding consumer spending, Robert showed perhaps my favorite slide of the event, the one he titled, “Consumer spending is less worse.”
Okay, so it's still bad. It's still 4.7 percent below where it was back in January here in California, but it's not as bad as it was a number of months ago. So I'm pleased to report that things are "less worse" on the consumer side of things.
Robert Kleinhenz also shared some compelling data about demographic trends. Over the next few years, California's public school student population is projected to decrease from 6 million to about 5.7 or 5.8 million. And one of the reasons for that?
Housing is expensive and that's driving certain demographic trends, including a slight out-migration. It's not like everybody's leaving California. We hear about that on the radio and in the news, [but] that's not happening. On net, we're losing maybe a fraction of a percent of the total population, because as some people are moving out, other people are moving into California. And so that offsets things to a certain degree. But make no mistake about it, the loss of population is a problem and it largely points to the problem of housing, even more so than our composition of taxes. And so consequently, if we're able to increase the supply of housing, we would be able to reverse presumably the slight out-migration of residents, and in turn, we'd be able to also see things like our school-aged population improve.
From big picture economy. We delved next into the every day challenges for school districts, as they address the pandemic. A panel of CBOs and practitioners from different size districts in different parts of the state [moderated by CASBO president-elect Diane Deshler] shared their experiences and engaged in dialogue.
So Ruben, can you tell us about your school district’s economic conditions and funding during the COVID-19 pandemic?
Sure, and even that is evolving with the latest news we got yesterday...
That's Rubin Frutos, Assistant Superintendent for Business Services in Paramount Unified School District, which is in Los Angeles County. He's one of the panelists sharing practical colleague-to-colleague experiences related to things like funding, technology and facilities. One of the topics that especially intrigued me was about the work districts such as his are doing to improve their HVAC air filtration systems so there'll be healthier air for students and staff before they all return to campuses.
We have units that are 25 years or older and cannot handle these higher filtration systems, just because not enough air can go through. So we've been using a combination of bond money, COVID money and whatever else we can get our hands on to upgrade all our air filtration systems. We've replaced hundreds of air conditioners so that every unit in the district can accept them....
So many things to think about to ensure basic safety. And as always, there's the consideration of how to maximize available funds to do it.
So, Kassandra, are you currently offering testing to your employees? Have you had any outbreaks and how have you handled that?
So we are not currently testing our employees. We've been working on getting a contract in place and working with our health insurance provider as well on getting testing in place. We do have an MOU with both of our associations that'll allow us the opportunity to test and actually making it a requirement to test…
That's Kassandra Booth, Chief Business Official at Oakdale Joint Unified in Stanislaus County. She's describing where her district is at with COVID-19 testing, one of the most complex challenges for districts as they work to safely reopen campuses.
This is also a great time to mention that on the afternoon between day one and day two of the CBO Symposium, the California Collaborative for Educational Excellence (CCEE) hosted a special webinar with the chief medical officers at the state to share the latest information about California's COVID-19 efforts and school reopenings. I highly recommend watching a recording of that. If you missed it. You can visit the CASBO or CCCE website for the link. [View "COVID-19 Updates and Public Schools: A Conversation with State Public Health Leaders."]
The symposium wrapped up with one more timely panel -- this one about negotiations during difficult times -- including strategies for strengthening collaboration and maintaining positive relationships with labor partners.
What you're experiencing is just how complex the issues are. I think about the Great Recession and that was really challenging, the financial situation, but this is so complex and the emotions -- I mean, there's job loss fear, fear of health and well-being, financial extreme pressures on everyone. People [need] strong relationships to get through this. And here's the good news. Those that work through a crisis together will build even stronger relationships for years and years to come. So we will all have lots of stories and deep, strong relationships that will help us get through this and help us get through the next crisis.
Those words of excellent advice are from longtime CBO and CASBO leader, Jayne Christakos, Associate Superintendent for Business Facilities and Operations at San Bernardino City Unified School District.
Another panelist, Namita Brown, a partner at Fagan, Friedman, and Fulfrost, honed in on the most prevalent tension currently at many bargaining tables and how it must be acknowledged.
What we are now talking about is safety. We are creating schedules and we are figuring out how many minutes of asynchronous instruction versus synchronous instruction we must have. We're doing all of that, but what is a union focused on? All unions that I'm dealing with at various tables, whether they're classified or certificated, they are concerned about safety and in order to bridge that gap so that we can accelerate bringing back students into some kind of a hybrid model, that trust is necessary, because without that, everything we are talking about, everything we are presenting, whether it's screening, whether it's testing, whether it's checking in, making sure that there are paper towels and hand sanitizers around -- if there is no trust, they need to see it....
The tips and strategies about improving negotiations were great. Of course, I can't include any more of the specifics here because some of them were very top secret. No, I'm only kidding. It was a very candid and transparent dialogue about understanding those difficult pressures we're all under, no matter which side of the table you may sit. And here's that concept again, [that] it's all about building mutual trust. As Matt Phillips from School Services of California, who also was on the panel, concluded:
It's tough right now. These are some really unprecedented times, not only for you but also for your labor partners. But if we think about this for the long game, know that we're going to see these folks again. You know, a deposit now into that trust bank will pay dividends in the future.
Virtual conferencing can be lonelier. So I thought I would also do something I've made it a point to try to do at every event I attend: Meet at least one new person. In this case, I had seen a few times the name Tara Campanella pop up in the Zoom "chat." Tara is the CBO at the Bass Lake School District in Madera County. So I looked up her email at a break and asked if I could give her a quick call. She said, yes.
Tara, thanks so much for jumping on the line. So, have you attended the CBO symposium in the past?
Yes, this is my third year attending.
What was most challenging about adjusting to the virtual format this year?
Um, I just think it was probably not being able to see everybody; that's something I really look forward to and networking, you know, and hearing what's going on in everyone's district, especially right now when everybody's got a different scenario going on with COVID.
So, in the two days there are a lot of speakers, a lot of guidance. Were there any special highlights for you?
Well, every year I really look forward to Robert Kleinhenz, his economic forecast. I mean, when I took economics in college, I would say that class was probably one of my most challenging classes and it was difficult for me, but when he talks about economics, it's just really interesting and he ties it back into things that are really relevant, and he's very engaging. I enjoy watching him as a speaker.
Can you share maybe one of your key takeaways overall from the event?
The key takeaway was just that we've been told since the start of our budget, that we're not in a positive outlook, that we had to prepare to really tighten up our budgets and we're going to have deferrals of our budgets -- and now the word that's come out is more of a positive outlook. And it takes a lot of pressure off and it gives us a silver lining during this stressful time to know that the economy is doing better than they expected and that we can take a deep breath and plan accordingly and not be so worried about budget constraints.
Right. I heard a lot of positivity with a good side of caution. Is that what you heard?
Yes. And I know in my district, I'm pretty fiscally conservative, so I'm still looking at it like how I had already planned; we're going to be conservative, but it's just nice knowing there's kind of like a cushion that's there. It takes a little bit of the stress off behind the scenes,
Right. Any other thoughts, observations or reactions to the symposium that you'd like to share?
I mean, I really did miss the networking piece of it. I just finished the FCMAT CBO cohort this March with the "Sweet 16 cohort." And I was really looking forward to seeing everyone from my class because I made lifelong friends. And not only that, but just running into people that you know, and meeting people from other districts that are similar or very different. The best part of the symposium is that you get to meet all these people from different districts and hear how they do things. I look forward to that part the most, so I really do miss the human connection. and next year I'm hoping it'll be able to go back to that.
I hope so too. And I'll look forward to meeting you in-person the next time we're able to meet in-person.
That would be cool, yeah. I'm looking forward to things getting back to normal as, as I'm sure everybody is.
All right. Well have a terrific weekend.
Besides learning about all the hot issues, conferences are typically a great time to build collegiality and be inspired. Obviously that's a lot harder in a virtual environment, but we find our ways in terms of inspiration. Our friend, John Gray, President of School Services of California offered these words of reflection and appreciation, and they really seem to resonate. They seem like the ideal way to wrap up this episode before we all click on "leave meeting."
What would you have said if I was talking to you last year at the same CBO symposium, I think it was in Newport Beach, and I said, Well, here's my outlook on the future: I think in March you're going to close all your schools; you're going to be in charge of feeding everybody; and you're going to have to implement distance learning district-wide. But don't worry. We're going to give you some federal money to help you out (and you have exactly four days to spend it, but if you don't spend it, we're going to criticize you for it.)
Well, if I would have told you that, you wouldn't have believed me and yet here we are. And so you've done some amazing things this year!
I always like talking about the past and the Great Recession and how tough things were, but nobody's really done what you've done this year. I can't think of your predecessors who could say, you know, I had as big of a challenge as 2020 has been for school districts up and down the state. So you've done a tremendous job and I personally want to thank you. And as a taxpayer, I definitely thank you.
Series music begins.
And thank you for joining us on Adventures in Ed Funding. I hope you've enjoyed this virtual experience of a virtual event.
Many thanks to all the terrific speakers and sponsors at this year’s CASBO CBO symposium. Be sure to check out our show notes for the LAO’s fiscal outlook report and check the CASBO website for all the latest information, news and guidance, as well as a full range of professional development opportunities, including the CASBO Web Wise series.
Our podcast is presented by CASBO. Jamie Dial is the President and Tatia Davenport is the CEO/Executive Director. The one and only Tommy Dunbar handles all of our editing sound and music. And I'm Paul Richman, grateful as always to be your series guide.
Happy Thanksgiving, everyone! Take us out, Tommy.