Not Your Usual Marriage Advice - Episode 67

What if the classic marriage advice we’ve all heard is just the beginning? In this episode, Joel and I dive into some of the most out-of-the-box tips our listeners have shared—and we’re giving our honest take on whether they helped or hurt our own relationship.

From surprising suggestions to unconventional truths, we're unpacking what actually works (and what doesn’t) when it comes to real-life love. If you’re over the one-size-fits-all advice and ready for something real, this episode is for you.

Transcript

Introduction to Married and Naked

Speaker 1 0:01

Welcome to the Married and Naked Podcast. I'm Tammy, founder of the blog Married and Naked, certified sexuality coach and speaker.

Speaker 2 0:08

And I'm Joel, tv host, motivational speaker and the guinea pig to the lessons you're about to learn.

Speaker 1 0:13

We're high school sweethearts, married over two decades, and we're on a mission to help you create the marriage you desire and deserve. Let's get naked. Welcome to the Married and Naked podcast. Hi, sweetheart.

Speaker 2 0:26

Hey, my love how are you? I'm doing excellent today, yes.

Speaker 1 0:32

Your baby blues are sparkling.

Speaker 2 0:34

Oh, very sweet, Thank you. I will say I'm doing excellent because I had a day off today, which is, you know, and I believe me, I know I have a very privileged and some would say cush, quote, unquote job. You know, dare even call it a, you know jobs.

Speaker 1 0:55

Yeah, but you do work hard. I do work hard. It's just in an unusual way. Wait, dude, let's just recap, just in case, what it is you're talking about. We are entrepreneurs, so we have several kind of jobs, but the job you're referring to right now, that you're kind of in the middle of, is I do assemblies at elementary schools, fourth and fifth grade.

Speaker 2 1:16

historical reenactments I have for 30 years and those assemblies led to our television show that we produced for about 20 years, Curiosity Quest, which led to our local program, Inland Empire Explorer, which we still have. Tons of social media. We still do a lot of work on social media for that as well.

Speaker 1 1:34

Yeah, a large portion of your day you are dressed up as Paul Revere or as James Marshall the founder of gold. I think people do think it's funny when you tell them, like you're laughing at it too. But it is funny because sometimes when you're practicing, you walk in through the house and you're in your costume.

Speaker 2 1:54

You must do dress rehearsals.

Speaker 1 1:56

Yes, always. So my husband does have a very weird job. But when you created yourself and you've been doing for 30 years and schools have you back year after year after year after year, 25, 30 years later, you have adults coming up to you saying oh man, I remember when you came to my school and you did the fourth grade assembly and we panned for gold. Anyway, it's a cool, you have a cool job, but you are in the midst of it right now and it's exhausting.

Speaker 2 2:24

Well, you know it's funny. You should say what you just said, because next week my furthest travel week that I do and one of the schools I'm going to. I've been going to this school every single year since 1997. That's almost 30 years. That's crazy, with the exception of the COVID year 2020. But one of the teachers at that school was a student who saw the fourth grade assembly when they were there at that school, which is so awesome.

Speaker 1 2:51

That's cool, but also dang. We're old.

Speaker 2 2:56

Yeah, but all that to say, I actually had a blank calendar on my day and it was like, oh, this is so good. So I'm not complaining because I know what I do is not like I said. It's it's. It's not really work, it's, I'm going to put on a show every day for kids and you still work hard for those kids. But I love it, I love it, so I had a day off. It was so nice. And so what do we do on a day off?

Speaker 1 3:16

we record podcast our day off is a day off.

Speaker 2 3:22

Absolutely.

Speaker 1 3:22

It's something you enjoy.

Sharing Unconventional Marriage Advice

Speaker 2 3:24

I love it and we got to spend a little time unexpected time together and it's been nice.

Speaker 1 3:29

It's been nice, very nice. Yeah, I just posted a video today on my Instagram on the Married and Naked Instagram, asking followers to share with me their most out of the box marriage advice Not the typical stuff that you hear like never stop dating or never go to bed angry, but like kind of the quirky stuff that we don't really talk about. And I have a lot coming in right now. But I thought maybe we would share some of the advice people are sharing and our thoughts on it today. And inevitably I did get I do have so far a lot of the more traditional kind of advice coming in, which is fine. Advice is advice and I think we can all use advice. Sometimes you know certain things are going to hit you when you, hopefully when you need it, and all the advice we can get the better. But I thought I'd read a couple of the ones that I did, like Somebody said a king-size bed together, vacations and separate vacations, which I really liked, that one.

Speaker 2 4:31

Oh, that's perfect.

Speaker 1 4:33

Yeah, we do have a king-size bed, which I would 100% agree to.

Speaker 2 4:37

Yeah, when we go to hotels with a queen and it's small. Yeah, and we're not here to knock on people who have a smaller bed or cannot fit a king size bed in the room. But when you go to a king size and then you then of course take a lot of together vacations.

Speaker 1 4:50

But I also especially take separate vacations. I don't really call it vacations, but kind of like getaways right, where I go away for a few days on my own, or also like I go on a girl's trip and I encourage you to do the same. You're just not as apt to do it, but you have taken some times where you take a few days by yourself, and I absolutely agree. I think both are very, very important.

Speaker 2 5:31

Well, and part of why I don't do this is exactly what I just said. I'm literally taking a trip next week by myself.

Speaker 1 5:38

You travel for work. Sometimes that takes you away, yeah.

Speaker 2 5:41

So I'm going to be gone for six, five nights, yeah.

Speaker 1 5:44

I get that. Somebody said never stop pranking your spouse.

Speaker 2 5:50

That's not my vibe, don't you dare. Who said that?

Speaker 1 5:54

I don't think that'll work in this relationship.

Speaker 2 5:57

I love that.

Speaker 1 5:58

I, like this one, never fight on an empty stomach. You just might be hangry on an empty stomach. You just might be hangry.

Speaker 2 6:06

I mean.

Speaker 1 6:07

I think that's brilliant advice when I am hungry or hangry because I do get hangry I don't know that you ever get hangry like me, no, but I absolutely do. You know that, of course, nothing can get accomplished in those times and I'm definitely going to have an edge to me that I don't have on a normal basis.

Speaker 2 6:28

Last night we were driving home from my parents and I literally said to you hey, can you tell me when my wife's going to be back?

Speaker 1 6:36

Because I was hungry.

Speaker 2 6:37

Yes, and then you mentioned, oh, I haven't eaten anything. I'm like, oh, okay, that's why, and then what I do? I shut down.

Speaker 1 6:46

You shut down or no?

Speaker 2 6:47

I went to quiet mode to to not not aggravate you.

Speaker 1 6:52

Oh, okay, you didn't shut down, you just didn't keep poking, because we're still having conversation and everything. But you weren't poking me intentionally at things that were going to drive me crazy, knowing that I was very hangry.

Speaker 2 7:06

When we say poking, it's just me talking.

Speaker 1 7:08

Yes.

Speaker 2 7:09

So I shut down. I'm correct, you're not Continue on.

Speaker 1 7:14

It says argue in the nude. That way it's more difficult to bail and run. I've seen people say this, but I mean honestly, I would never be able to like think about that in the moment when we're arguing.

Speaker 2 7:28

Like strip down.

Speaker 1 7:29

Yeah. We should totally do it, I'm sure it works. Let's totally do it. You can't do anything but probably laugh, right.

Speaker 2 7:37

But then that may create a different argument Like wait a minute, what are you laughing at? But no.

Speaker 1 7:44

That's great. I liked this advice Say the thing you're most afraid of saying.

Speaker 2 7:50

That's good. It's funny because you always say what's the real reason why you're feeling this way? So you're kind of getting down to that. You're like no, no, tell me what's the real, what's the underlying. Let's get to the bottom of this.

Speaker 1 8:06

Yeah, I think you and I have, I mean, I would say pretty good communication to where we're pretty comfortable saying the hard things, but back in the day I think that that was hard for us to do. So I think what this is saying is say the things that are hard to say, because if you don't say them, you can't work through any of those things. You have to be willing to say the things that you're scared to say, that are potentially going to hurt feelings or potentially going to maybe cause an argument, and hopefully you can approach those in a way that's a healthy way. But that's the only way to really, you know, create the marriage you want to have and not have all these unresolved resentments and issues that just kind of pile up. You got to be willing to say those things, so I really liked that one. The other one I really like is the opposite thinking, and we've talked about this before Go to bed even if you're angry. What do you think about that one?

Speaker 2 9:07

Well, I, you know, we've had a lot of discussions on this topic, because it is such a I even call it a cliche to say that Don't go to bed angry. Unfortunately, you already brought up the hangry part, the other characteristic that you this is specific to me. Well, it's our relationship. Yeah, so yes.

Speaker 1 9:25

Which is true. What we say is not true for everybody, it's just true for us.

Speaker 2 9:29

Absolutely. Which is true. What we say is not true for everybody, it's just true for us, absolutely. When you get to a certain point of being tired, you are and I don't say this rudely you're useless. I mean, you're useless to you, to me to anyone.

Speaker 1 9:41

Absolutely, I agree, yeah.

Speaker 2 9:43

Yeah, your thoughts aren't correct. Whereas me, I could just keep going and going and going and going, and you can't. Whereas when you have some sleep and we wake up in the morning, your thoughts are clear, your mind's clear and our conversations are always a hundred thousand percent better in the morning, when you've had some sleep.

Speaker 1 10:04

Yeah, and we had trouble with this in the beginning because you always wanted to fix it that night, like you didn't want it to carry on at all because I heard the cliches well, and also you didn't want to carry on arguments.

Speaker 1 10:16

you just don't, you just want it to be done. And you're a fixer. You're like I just got, we got to fix this, we got to be done, and I would just be like I can't, I can't, and then the last thing you wanted to do is have to go through it again the next day, which I totally understand, but also I can't do it right now, and it just made it worse and worse and worse, and things just don't get accomplished in the right way when I'm tired.

Speaker 2 10:41

Yeah, so for us you're right Not going.

The Truth About Going to Bed Angry

Speaker 1 10:44

I mean, that's something that people always say it's okay to go to bed angry yeah, For us. It's definitely okay to go to bed angry yeah For us, it's definitely okay to go to bed angry.

Speaker 2 10:49

Absolutely it's. Actually.

Speaker 1 10:50

it has served us a heck of a lot better than trying to argue this one out when yeah, and for other people it's been absolutely the opposite, and that's great, but for us specifically yeah, because of me it doesn't work that way.

Speaker 2 11:06

Well, you know we say you know I'm pointing the finger at you and I'm saying but truly, it's us that we're just not built that way. I'm built to be a one side, You're built to be the other. So that doesn't mean it's your fault, it's just we're just not built that way. Yeah, so I've learned over time that it's so much, it's just such a. Okay, we'll work on this in the morning. Yeah, One other one I wanted to point out on here was separate bathrooms seriously.

Speaker 2 11:31

And I only say that because just yesterday I saw a post I was on TikTok where the lady was saying I finally got a sleep divorce with my husband. And it took me by surprise Sleep divorce, what the heck is she talking about?

Speaker 2 11:49

And then, of course, the video goes into saying my husband and I now have separate rooms and, of course, I wanted to hear the whole video because I had this lingering fear that we are heading that way because of what's starting to happen to me. I don't know what's happening, but I'm starting to snore.

Speaker 1 12:05

Not starting to. You've always snored. It's just increasing and not stopping.

Speaker 2 12:12

Yeah, and you already said you are a light sleeper and it's not a good combination for our relationship. And so you have been getting up unbeknownst to me and going to our couch. We're very blessed, we have a large bedroom that has a couch in it and you're going to lay on the couch. And then I wake up in the morning time and I'm like, oh wait, a minute, my wife's not, she's laying on the couch, gosh, dang it. So I'm like, so afraid that we're heading for a sleep divorce. And all I can tell from watching this video and she was, it's working for them. Apparently she's very proud, but the video was highlighting how you recognize some other problems in your relationship you didn't have when you have a sleep divorce. And then she turned the video on the room and the room was a mess and she goes.

Speaker 2 12:54

I always blame my husband for making a mess, and now I realized the mess was mine.

Speaker 1 12:58

Yeah.

Speaker 2 13:00

So anyhow.

Speaker 1 13:01

I think separate bathrooms is maybe a different issue than separate bedrooms. The people that I know that have separate bedrooms it is specifically for that reason, because of the snoring. So if you do have somebody who's a light sleeper and somebody who snores and they can't help it, I mean it's not like it's your fault. Those are the reasons, Whereas I think the bathroom is probably just space and mess and that kind of thing. You and I don't really have an issue with that. I don't have an issue with shared space with you.

Speaker 2 13:32

Yeah.

Speaker 1 13:33

But unfortunately, yeah, I do struggle with the sleeping. It definitely affects my sleep.

Speaker 2 13:38

Yeah, and I just, I feel awful.

Speaker 1 13:41

I know you do, it's not your fault so.

Speaker 2 13:42

I've tried. I've already got the nose strips. Those aren't working. I have a family member who had mentioned that. They have a family member who had mentioned that they had a. They have a snoring problem and they have this new thing that they're trying and it's been working. So I I'm I've got to order that to see if that helps. But oh my gosh.

Speaker 1 13:58

We'll figure it out, baby, we'll figure it out.

Avoiding Criticism and Scorekeeping

Speaker 2 14:01

Always be your spouse's porn star. If you won't, someone else will. Hmm, hmm, hmm. I don't know what to make about that comment. I mean I get what he's. I say I say it's he because it looks like a gentleman who wrote that, but I get the thought process behind that that you're.

Speaker 1 14:32

I think this is what they're saying is make sure that you're meeting each other's needs and desires sexually. But also I think it could be. I just feel like a woman shouldn't have to be acting like a porn star in order to feel like that's the only way to make their spouse happy, and I feel like that's dangerous ground to where somebody feels like they have to be like that in order to make their partner happy. A healthy sexual relationship goes both ways. So you know, if that's where you're at and that's what you enjoy and you like that persona or that feeling of it, great. But also, yeah, maybe some.

Speaker 2 15:12

And you've had the conversations where you both understand each other at that level. It's not a expectation, that's not understood in your relationship. You just wanna make sure that you're communicating about stuff like that.

Speaker 1 15:29

Yeah, or is my marriage threatened if I don't act a certain way for my spouse or have to put on some kind of show or persona? I think that that's just a little bit touchy and dangerous. But also it is really important to work to meet each other's sexual needs. But, as I was saying, you need to work together for that and not have to feel like you have to be somebody that you're not.

Speaker 2 15:52

Don't criticize your spouse in front of others. Yeah, you know, I saw that one and I'm like I just couldn't even imagine doing that. But again, we're not in a place where we might feel that. But you hear that a lot. I mean, I've seen it. I've literally bared witness to it. I'm just like, like talk about making me feel cringe that somebody's putting down their spouse in front of you know another person. God, it's such an uncomfortable feeling. Yeah, it's such an uncomfortable feeling.

Speaker 1 16:27

I totally agree. Like it says, don't criticize your spouse in front of others. Maybe to a therapist if you absolutely need to, but I hate hearing people talk down about their spouses. Yeah, that's not a fun thing to be. I think you know. Being able to talk to your girlfriends and I don't know if guys do this or not but being able to talk through things with your girlfriends about something that's happening at home, I feel like that's okay, like we all need people in our lives that are safe place for us to talk through things. If you're mad at your husband and like I need advice or help, I just need to like vent this off. I feel like that should be okay. But I feel like there is a really fine line where it's like I'm just putting my husband down for the sake of doing so.

Speaker 2 17:11

Yeah, and what you're saying? I don't think it's what they're saying.

Speaker 1 17:15

Yeah.

Speaker 2 17:15

Yeah, I mean, it's a totally different. We've literally bared witness to somebody just literally laying into this person is the. I don't want to repeat what they said, but you know I mean how, yeah, what a horrible. They can't do that. They can't do that. They're in front of a group of people Like what are you doing?

Speaker 1 17:33

And also the things that we, you know, that I share or I talk about with friends or whatever. It's not stuff I'm not going to say, things that I wouldn't feel comfortable saying to you as well.

Speaker 2 17:48

Yeah.

Speaker 1 17:48

I think that that's a different line as well. Like if I'm going to vent to them or I need to talk about something, I would tell you or be fine with telling you yeah, we talked about what we went through and this is what I said, or this is what we talked about, or this is the thoughts they had, Not that I'm saying you have to do that. You know each relationship has their own thing, but for us, if I'm going down that road of needing to talk to my sister or something, I'm certainly not going to be saying things that I would not want you to know.

Speaker 2 18:20

Right, right, yeah. Don't yell at each other unless the house is on fire. I don't know if I could do that.

Speaker 1 18:29

Then our house has been on fire a lot.

Speaker 2 18:34

Look, I love the comments and if these are the things that you guys are, you know, obviously, if they're putting these up here, this is the advice that they're.

Speaker 1 18:41

It works for you, if it works 100%.

Speaker 2 18:43

Yeah, in fact I was trying to think. I think we know a couple that never, ever raised their voice or yelling, and I don't know. I just didn't grow up in that household.

Speaker 1 18:54

Well, no, you certainly didn't. Well, I didn't either.

Speaker 2 18:57

Yeah, no, no, certainly not. Remember what you bring in. The relationship is oftentimes and usually a reflection of how you grew up or your surroundings of how you grew up, what you learned, what you learned of how you grew up or your surroundings of how you grew up and what you learned. What you learned. And, my goodness, even to this day, I don't think my mom knows how to have a conversation without raising her voice.

Speaker 1 19:16

No, she does not.

Speaker 2 19:18

We just had it the last night.

Speaker 1 19:21

And I'm always like offended by her doing that and you're like, oh, this is just how it goes in my house, Like it's fine, Even yesterday you're like you know mom makes me so uncomfortable.

Speaker 2 19:31

Well, you don't have to say that to him. Like why are you doing that? Like looking at you, like what would she say? Like I'm not even hearing it, cause it's just noise. Oh my gosh, did you read the one I'm reading?

Speaker 1 19:43

Yeah.

Speaker 2 19:44

Bros, when you want to get even just tighten all the jars in the fridge, she'll either do without or break down and ask for help.

Speaker 1 19:54

I did see that in a. It was a funny video, but when he says it I'm like no, no, no, that's not funny. But I did see that in like a tick tock video like some way to get uh her to talk to him, like after the silent treatment. Oh, and you know what she he, he went and tightened her stanley cup really tight and I was like, oh, I feel you that stanley can be really hard to open I mean, don't get me wrong, it's hilarious, but I I don't know if that's advice yeah, I think we're walking fine lines here sometimes.

Speaker 2 20:28

Yeah, yeah, I mean we're looking at the. I love the creativity that people are putting out here, though it's great.

Speaker 1 20:35

I like this one. Tell me what you think. A happy marriage isn't 50-50, it's 60-40, where both parties strive to be the 60.

Work on Yourself First

Speaker 2 20:43

Oh, I love that one. I like that because I feel like sometimes, when you start thinking of 50-50, oh, your responsibility, my responsibility and I, you know, we got to share this, we got to share that I feel it gets into a keeping score kind of a thing. I was like, okay, did I take our son? Did you take our son? Did you do pick this up? Did I pick this up? Do we make this, do we make that? And versus oh no, I just need to be, I'm speaking for me. Oh, I just need to show up and be better and do more and offer more.

Speaker 2 21:14

And it's not like oh, I've already done my part, so that's it, so you got to do yours.

Speaker 1 21:19

Yeah, yeah, I hear what you're saying. I like that. It's like a scorekeeping. Yeah, exactly.

Speaker 2 21:31

It's almost like oh no, I just, I'm just going, going to keep showing up. Now you don't have that problem because we made it very crystal clear on this entire podcast You're a people pleaser, so you always show up, always do 60%.

Speaker 1 21:37

I wouldn't say always, but you.

Speaker 2 21:39

No, we'd have to find some once in a. You know moon change that you haven't shown up more, so I like that a lot. That's. That's really good.

Speaker 1 21:49

Brene Brown says that a marriage isn't 50-50. A marriage changes all the time, like sometimes it might be 70-30 or 60-40 or 10-90, depending on what is going on in your lives and that they, according to her, like would work on saying you know, I'm at a 30 today, so that your spouse knows oh okay, I need to step up a little bit and cover the other 70%, because you're struggling today, or I can give way more today, or I got you today, which I think is a really interesting way to look at it, because it's not always 50, 50 and it's absolutely right. Some days I can't do it.

Speaker 2 22:35

Yeah, you got migraines, you're down.

Speaker 1 22:43

Not just that I'm just if I'm overly tired or whatever, I've got stress going on in my life or my mom's sick, or your mom is sick, or you're like you're working so hard right now or whatever Like I'm not going to have the same expectations of you that I might have when days where nothing's going on and everything's kind of chill and I'm going to try to pick up for you or you're going to try to pick up for me. So I think that that's an interesting way to look at it. So, but I liked that view that this person's saying too.

Speaker 2 23:06

Yeah, that's a great one. I really, I really liked that. It's funny because I never really think about it in terms of percentages. Yeah, I really don't but, but, but to put that out there, I can see why it's important. Don't but to put that out there, I can see why it's important to think of it as percentages if you are in the keeping score mindset.

Speaker 1 23:24

Well, and also that's not a great mindset to be in. Yeah, you're right.

Speaker 2 23:28

Nevermind what I said. Drop what I just said, if you're keeping score.

Speaker 1 23:31

We got big, big problems here yeah. We got to work on yeah.

Speaker 2 23:35

Oh, I like this one. If there's a problem, work on yourself first.

Speaker 1 23:42

I think that's such a good one, and one I know you and I really really work on, and I'm always preaching that if something is really going on or you're really struggling in a relationship, the first place to look is at yourself. And I'm not saying your partner doesn't have work to do. They do, but you can't. You can't change your partner, you can't fix your partner. The only thing that you can do is work on yourself, and every time we have an argument and things start going awry, we start like losing it. That's where I will go like okay, what am I doing in it? That's where I will go Like okay, what am I doing? That's helping this situation get out of control. How am I going to reel?

Speaker 2 24:25

this back in. You know you had the four pillars of the ultimate marriage, which one of them is accountability. So when I start to feel man, I just wish you would just get or understand or see my point. When I start asking those questions, I feel like that is my trigger to go oh, wait, a second, what am I doing here? What am I bringing to this? And then I start going through an account. Okay, how am I making this situation harder? What am I doing so? I'm literally like internalizing it.

Speaker 1 25:00

When you're saying the four pillars. Those are things that we discovered after a really tough time in our marriage. It took us like a year, year and a half, to kind of rebuild our marriage and when we looked back we could see like really distinct things that helped us really save our marriage. And one of those things was accountability. When we started being more accountable, particularly in our arguments, we saw a huge positive shift in our relationship. So that's I know what you're talking about when you're talking about the pillars, and accountability was is a huge part of our life and something we are always working on practicing.

Speaker 1 25:40

And it is so difficult, it's so difficult to choose to not point a finger and look inward instead. I think it's one of the most difficult things to do. When you're pointing a finger, all you're going to do is perpetuate an argument. Nothing is going to do. When you're pointing a finger, all you're going to do is perpetuate an argument. Nothing is going to get solved when you are pointing a finger. We have learned this 100% in our relationship. So, instead of doing that because it doesn't work, look at yourself. What can you do? What have you done to contribute to where you are? What mistakes do you need to own up. Even if they're the tiniest little things, what can you apologize for, man? That is just massive power in creating a positive relationship, creating a healthy relationship.

Speaker 2 26:30

Yeah, we did a very deep dive very early on in our episodes on this podcast. I mean, we're talking about episode nine, 10, 11, and 12, where you literally broke down secret one, secret two, secret three, secret four to a successful and ultimate marriage. So if you want to revisit those past episodes I mean they were very early on in this podcast- yeah, maybe things we need to revisit yeah.

Speaker 1 26:56

Because, those really are the pillars that we do live by still.

Speaker 2 26:59

And those are when you go to speak to mom groups, as you've done recently, always the four that I talk about. Always the four.

Speaker 1 27:04

Which the other ones are. You said it's accountability, appreciation, acceptance and connection. Yeah.

Speaker 2 27:11

Well, we just gave them away. But you could still go back and revisit episodes.

Speaker 1 27:14

Yeah, there's lots of things we learned within those about how to accomplish those pillars.

Speaker 2 27:19

Yeah.

Speaker 1 27:20

But they are the things that we hold true to our foundation of our marriage.

Speaker 2 27:24

I like this one. Hold each other tightly, closely and know that you are not each other's enemy. Focus on the why and not the what they are saying, and you'll find the root of the problem.

Finding the "Why" Behind Arguments

Speaker 1 27:39

I like the part about focusing on the why, not the what and how I interpret that is when you and I can recognize that the argument is not usually about what we're actually arguing about. It's much deeper than that. So it's not about the dishes, it's not about chores, or it's not about you know why aren't we having sex tonight or whatever. It's not about that. So it's not about the dishes, it's not about chores, or it's not about you know why aren't we having sex tonight or whatever. It's not about that. What it's, there's always something that's underlying that, and usually it is like an unmet need or it's a fear that's underlying that, like my fear of not being enough is what often shows up for me, but it might show up in a way that looks like me misinterpreting something that you say, and then we go down a road of argument when it had nothing to do with what we're going down an argument. It just has to do with the fact that I didn't hear what you said. I interpreted it as you telling me I'm not enough.

Speaker 1 28:38

Right hear what you said, I interpret it as you telling me I'm not enough Right, and you might have the same thing if I don't give you the right reaction when you come home, or like when you lean in for a kiss or something and maybe I'm not like fully present and you take maybe offense to that. Well, it's not really about that. What that is representing to you is maybe this fear that you don't love me or you're gonna leave me.

Speaker 2 29:02

so which tammy and I are disclosing our like deepest fears and the things that usually underlying, underlines our arguments.

Speaker 1 29:11

We've been able to get to those things and when we can remember those in an argument, what that does is allows us to have compassion for each other. It's like, oh okay, this Joel's feeling like, or thinking that I'm saying I don't love him, or he's feeling unloved, or he's feeling like a fear that I'm going to abandon him. It gives me compassion and allows me to move through that conversation or that conflict in a much different way.

Speaker 2 29:42

I'll tell you what you want to have a different conversation with your spouse when it comes to arguments, disagreements, things that are ailing you. Focus on that. Why are they feeling this way?

Speaker 1 29:54

It's really about digging deeper, Like what is really going on here? Why am I feeling triggered here? Why, every single time this topic comes up, we go into a spiral. Why do we fight about money every single time? What is really happening here, really happening here?

Speaker 1 30:15

We used to have that fight all the time and then one day I realized that the fight wasn't about you trying to control me, which is what I thought it was about. What you were really trying to do was protect your family and not have them be without, like you were as a child man, when I had that epiphany and realized that's what's happening. We didn't fight about that anymore. Why? Because I had that epiphany and realized that's what's happening. We didn't fight about that anymore. Why? Because I can look at you and be like oh, I understand why that's coming up for you. We still don't agree, but we don't have to argue about it like we did. I don't agree with you about all the money choices you want to make and vice versa, but it allowed me to have so much compassion for why you feel the way you do.

Speaker 2 30:58

It's a completely different disagreement now.

Speaker 1 31:00

Totally, it's not even. I don't know if you can call it a disagreement, but maybe. But it's a controlled one where it's more a conversation. Right, we're not arguing or yelling at each other like we used to about it, so that's really powerful.

Speaker 2 31:13

It is.

Speaker 1 31:13

Yeah, that feels like a really good one to end on. Well, this was fun. I didn't expect to go down this road. I thoroughly enjoyed hearing your thoughts on it. You know, reading through them with you and hearing your thoughts on them and having a little discussion about each one. So you can check out that post on the Married and Naked Instagram page it's married in the letter, N naked.

Speaker 2 31:37

Yeah, and you look like you're dipping some tea in a cup with some words on top of it.

Speaker 1 31:41

Oh, yeah, tea bag, yeah yeah. Yeah, you're right, it's just a question, but it's fun to hear everybody's answers. Everybody's relationship is different, you know. That's fun to hear what is what works for you. You know, and we can all learn from each other. That'll do it. That's a wrap.

Speaker 2 32:03

Thank you so much for being here and we'll talk to you next time on the Married and Naked podcast. Bye, everybody.