'80s Movie Montage

Ladyhawke

• Anna Keizer & Derek Dehanke • Season 4 • Episode 25

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With special -- and returning! -- guest Andrew M. Edwards, Anna and Derek discuss the evil incarnate that is the Bishop, the success or lack thereof of that wild score, and much more during their chat of the Richard Donner-helmed Ladyhawke (1985).

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Anna Keizer and Derek Dehanke are the co-hosts of ‘80s Movie Montage. The idea for the podcast came when they realized just how much they talk – a lot – when watching films from their favorite cinematic era. Their wedding theme was “a light nod to the ‘80s,” so there’s that, too. Both hail from the Midwest but have called Los Angeles home for several years now. Anna is a writer who received her B.A. in Film/Video from Columbia College Chicago and M.A. in Film Studies from Chapman University. Her dark comedy short She Had It Coming was an Official Selection of 25 film festivals with several awards won for it among them. Derek is an attorney who also likes movies. It is a point of pride that most of their podcast episodes are longer than the movies they cover.

Andrew M. Edwards is an award-winning film and media composer based in Palm Springs. Recent credits include the 80s-inspired horror-comedy feature, “Camp Wedding” (Prime Video, Apple), and the television documentary, “Downtown Disasters” (WTTW TV). Drew lives with his stalwart husband, Andrew, and their tailless foundling cat, Estrella, and is an encyclopedic fan of Doctor Who, film music, and 80s pop culture. His music can be heard on Apple, Spotify, and everywhere music is streamed. AndrewMEdwards.com.

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SPEAKER_00:

i have waited almost two years for a sign from god so when i heard the warning bells of aquila i knew the moment of my destiny had come you will be my guiding angel me Sir, the truth is I talk to God all the time. And no offense, but he never mentioned you.

SPEAKER_02:

Hello and welcome to 80s Movie Montage. This is Derek.

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And this is Anna.

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And he does, he does talk to God all the time. He talks to the, to like, he kind of breaks the fourth wall

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all the

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time. Um, but yeah.

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God's fourth wall?

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Yeah. Yes. That of course was Gaston, otherwise known as the Mouse, played by Matthew Broderick in Ladyhawk. That was quite the lead up. I know. Well done. Thank you.

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Ladyhawk!

SPEAKER_02:

yeah look lady hawk is just the start of some of these there there are many other movies kind of like in that same like vein that we haven't even started talking about crawl yet

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because i didn't really know this movie it was actually i don't know if i'd go so far as to saying a mind-blowing moment but when they when they talk about michelle fiverr's character and how she transforms into a lady hawk i was like oh i made the connection

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and that was matthew broderick that names her.

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Yeah, it was cool.

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And Rutger Hauer, the other individual you hear in that

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clip. Okay, so I'm probably going to call him Rutger Hauer. I'm

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going to call him Navar, Captain

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Navar.

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For two years, Navar has not had any name, I guess. He just called the hawk Isabeau.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, Isabeau. Isabeau. Isabeau. Interesting names all together. Yes, so

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many names.

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So many names. Let's dive in. So Lady Hawk, before we get into like our writers director and all that time for

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our sponsor

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really quickly I just want to point out that it did get Oscar nominated Oscar nominations actually

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okay for music score

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in a round not music but an audio component okay so it did get an Oscar nomination for best sound that's not best score

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probably for all of the like creative crackling leather sounds as they move in their armor

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possibly possibly

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there's a lot of that

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and then connected to that it got an oscar nomination for best effects sound effects editing okay which i don't think exists any longer so they broke it

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they broke the

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system i feel like every year they kind of tweak the categories it's kind of annoying anyway 1985 which is so interesting because this is like right on the cusp of of Matthew Broderick becoming Ferris Bueller.

SPEAKER_04:

Yeah.

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This is pre-Ferris Bueller, but you can definitely see some Ferris Bueller in Gaston.

SPEAKER_02:

He's basically Ferris Bueller. Yeah, yeah. This is Gaston's day off.

SPEAKER_01:

Yes, exactly. So he's about to go huge with Ferris Bueller, but this just slightly precedes it. Yeah. Okay, so let's go into the writing credits. We have three people. No, I'm sorry. Well, three people. Three people are credited. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. Three people are credited, but there is a fourth. So there is another. The first person we have is Edward Kamara is what I'm going to say his name. Okay. So he has both a story and screenplay by credit. This is his very first credit. All right. He doesn't have a ton of writing credits. So like in total, he has just seven. A couple of them that are probably more well-known are Enemy Mine and Drag. Never

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cared for that. Yeah.

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Oh, I don't even, I mean, I know the title, but I don't know anything about the movie.

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Dennis Quaid and I think Louis Gossett Jr. Oh, okay. Yeah.

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All right. And then Dragon, the Bruce Lee story.

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Okay.

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So that's Edward. And then we have a gentleman, they're all dudes, a gentleman by the name of Michael Thomas and some of his credits, I think I have for like everybody film credits, The Hunger, which I totally want to do that movie for our next Halloweens series i mean there's so many movies so we'll see but i definitely want to do that at some point we saw a trailer for it i think it looks fun yeah burke and wills don't know that scandal backbeat and then this one i just love the title i think we've brought it up before welcome

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to

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whoop whoop

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if we haven't we should have

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whoop whoop yeah finally as far as credited screenwriters we have tom mankiewicz who comes from very much like a hollywood family like his dad was a huge director directed like All About Eve and the whole the whole deal like so he definitely comes from a Hollywood family not surprised that he also went into it actually I can't say that I met him but he did come when I was in grad school he came to my school to speak to our class okay so that was pretty cool that is cool yeah we had a couple fun people that counts yeah we had a couple fun people come to our classes so among his credits we have Diamonds Are Forever

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great James Bond with, oh my goodness, the original James Bond.

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Why can't

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I say it? Sean Connery? Yeah,

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Sean Connery. Okay, okay. I don't know the franchise, so I didn't know if he was the original James Bond.

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Yeah, no, that was Diamonds Are Forever was fun because it was him in the U.S., in Vegas, in fact.

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Okay, well, hold on to your hats because he also wrote Live and Let Die.

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Back to Roger Moore. Okay. That's a very voodoo-y kind of James Bond movie, yeah.

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Okay. Is The Man with the Golden Gun also?

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It sure the hell

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is. Okay, so there you go. He had a big in with the James Bond franchise. So he did those. He has an uncredited credit for both Superman and Superman 2. Okay. And then he also did the film version of Dragnet. So he wrote on all of those. Oh,

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okay.

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And then the fourth person who is uncredited only for that reason i don't have the same kind of list of like the same filmography listed for him but a gentleman by the name of david webb peoples

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okay so there we go well he wrote a little something called unforgiven oh

SPEAKER_01:

interesting okay i mean sometimes people you know they like clean up certain parts their script actor that sort of thing but they don't there's not enough that they did to warrant a credit for it oh okay yeah and i mean same thing like the WGA they changed their rules from time to time so I don't know if like at this time you could only have at the most like three credited screenwriters I don't know um but that's perhaps the reason why he's uncredited

SPEAKER_02:

well Mr. Peoples he's got he's got some solid stuff yeah Blade Runner 12 Monkeys Unforgiven

SPEAKER_01:

yeah that's so interesting so like he must have been really young when he had his like took a stab at this script because all those came much later so maybe not much later but in any case director so the reason why Tom Mankiewicz might just be like he might have had the same circumstance with Superman Superman 2 because the director of this movie is Richard Donner so they might have been pals wouldn't be a surprise to me if they were yeah Richard Donner I mean I I didn't realize like I I I feel like I'm competently familiar with his filmography, but I didn't know that this was one of his films.

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This is listed on some websites as one of the best movies you've never seen.

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Is it?

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Maybe.

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You're like, I haven't seen that website, but I'm sure it's out there. I've seen

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one. I've seen one.

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I mean, I love Richard Donner. I've talked about him before. I was very fortunate to actually intern at the Donner's company back in the day.

SPEAKER_02:

You saw One-Eyed Willie, the skull, right?

SPEAKER_01:

I did see One-Eyed Willie. I actually saw it in person. I don't know what this says about me, but truly one of the highlights of my life.

SPEAKER_02:

And for those that may not be aware, he was the most famous pirate of his time. Of his time, yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

And yeah, nope, that was a real fun time. So Richard Donner, he... Okay, so this is not the first time we've talked about him, but we'll go through, I think, honestly... Yeah, twice we've brought him up before.

SPEAKER_02:

For sure the Goonies, but I can't... Scrooged. Okay. Yeah. Okay.

SPEAKER_01:

So he started in TV. He did a lot of TV work. Um, when he was much younger, he worked on the Loretta Young show. He worked on the rifle man, uh, have gun will travel the twilight zone.

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Okay.

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So he worked on that danger Island. So all TV shows. Then I

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prequel to love Island.

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Yeah. Right. I would say that perhaps his breakout movie and big breakout movie, the omen. Oh,

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Oh,

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really? Okay. I really wish that that was an 80s movie because that would be an incredible movie to cover. Yeah. And it's really interesting if you look at his filmography. I mean, he's very much kind of like a Howard Hawks where he can do a lot of different genres very well. Yeah. And he didn't really stick to any one particular lane and that's totally fine by me because we got a lot of really different, all great movies from him because of it.

SPEAKER_02:

Well, perhaps maybe, you know, know four more years when we're at when we're at like episode two something 200 something and we're like you

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know what sneak in the omen

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we'll just sneak in maybe we'll just have a month of just based on a director that we've covered in the 80s that has movies from other

SPEAKER_01:

decades that we want to cover that's a really dangerous territory maybe maybe we'll see and I'm just

SPEAKER_02:

saying that because I'd love to be able to talk about Maverick who which was directed by yes that movie is amazing that movie is great

SPEAKER_01:

Okay, so he directed The Omen. That was, I think, his breakout into film. And then he really solidifies his status as being just like a premiere film director because he is the director of Superman and Superman 2. However, we're not going to go down the rabbit hole of the whole fallout and why he was removed from that film unceremoniously. They did, not they in terms of like the producers who removed him, but I think in retrospect, they tried to kind of right that wrong by putting out literally the Richard Donner cut of Superman 2. So he has a credit for that. Like we mentioned, he was director of The Goonies. I think perhaps the most well-directed cast of kids ever.

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Yeah, I think E.T. comes to mind.

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Sure, Spielberg's very

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good. Honestly, The Goonies is more like focused throughout the entirety of the movie it's just those

SPEAKER_01:

kids it's just the kids for the most part yeah so he did that and we did that all the way back in season one that might have been like the second or third movie we did it was very very very early yeah um and of course like as far as like franchises he does have his own franchise so he was the director of all the lethal weapon movies so one through four um like i mentioned he also did scrooged i'm pretty sure that was also season one uh that was of course during the holidays for season one He did Conspiracy Theory. He did 16 Blocks. I didn't mention Maverick, but you just did. So I'll just kind of...

SPEAKER_02:

It's just a fun movie.

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Yeah, sure. I

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mean, come on. They even have the kind of like a throwback to Lethal Weapon. Danny Glover appears in it

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briefly. I'm not going to shame people for their movie likes.

SPEAKER_02:

You can't shame me for this. I have no shame when it comes to my appreciation for Maverick.

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Okay. So moving on to cinematography, which this is a very beautiful film. It's really well shot. It

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is, yeah.

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It is. And when I go into who shot this, it'll be like, oh, well, okay. I mean, we have a multi-Oscar winning cinematographer behind the camera for this one. That helps. Vittorio Soraro is his name. And I mean, definitely some very, very well-known films as part of his repertoire. He has, so this one, maybe not so well-known, but I had to put it in there. Early on in his career. career tis pity she's a whore oh okay is one of the films that he did i thought that was just kind of funny um

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it's too bad

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quite an infamous film last tango in paris

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oh

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yeah so he did that he did brothers blue he got his first cinematography win for apocalypse now okay so there you go he got his next cinematography win for reds that's another really well known and it's So this is what's funny to me. This isn't the first time that we've seen the trajectory of a career like this. So he has under his belt two Oscar wins. Then he does the film Ishtar. Oh,

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yeah. That went really well for everyone, right?

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And that's my whole point is that, you know, you just kind of never know what's going to hit with an audience. And Ishtar did not hit. What would you say is the opposite of hit? A bomb.

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It did that very well.

SPEAKER_01:

Yes, it did. So he was the DP on Ishtar, but then he comes back very strong. He wins his third Oscar for The Last Emperor.

SPEAKER_02:

Well, to be fair, I mean, people complained about a lot of stuff with Ishtar, but did they complain about the cinematography?

SPEAKER_01:

I don't know. I

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have no idea. Maybe it's easier to just move on for something like that, depending on what your role

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is. Sure, sure. It's the directors that are going to get... To my knowledge... Oh, boy. So now I'm going down a deep dive, and I'm just trying to buy some time to see if I'm right about this movie.

SPEAKER_02:

Looking up the director of Ishtar?

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Yeah, isn't it... What's her name?

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Who's her face?

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Yes, exactly. Give me a minute. It was

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Elaine. Directed

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by Elaine May. Thank you, Elaine May. Yes, yes, yes. And my point being, it's much harder to recover when you're the director of a film that doesn't do well yeah it's pretty impossible to recover when you're a female director of a film that doesn't do well yeah so and she's brilliant um but she never really could recover from that so he gets another so this time he I bet you at this point he gets three Oscar wins for the first three times that he's nominated for best cinematography I wonder if he was just kind of assuming oh if you're nominated you just win because he he gets another But he doesn't win this time, but he gets nominated a fourth time for Dick Tracy.

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Okay, well, I'm okay with him not winning for that.

SPEAKER_01:

Sure, sure. So he does that. He does Little Buddha. I wonder if he had some kind of professional rapport with Warren Beatty because he does Bullworth. He does that one. He does Tango. It's not Last Tango in Paris, just Tango.

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Okay, he's a fan of films with Tango

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in the title. Possibly. He does Exorcist, The Beginning. And then given... you know, his background makes all the sense in the world. He did a ton of Italian projects. Okay. So there we go. All right. So moving on to music, um, a gentleman by the name of Andrew Powell, not a lot of credits for him. We have four total composing credits. And besides this film, we have a film called rocket Gibraltar.

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Hmm.

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couldn't so not rock of but rocket rocket

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rocket gibraltar

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exactly and then just two shorts that's that's what we got

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oh that's not fair because this soundtrack is incredible

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sure sure i mean i think probably it is beloved by some

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i i mean look of all the soundtracks and all of cinema this is one of them

SPEAKER_01:

correct yeah excellent way to put it yeah all right so moving on to film editing we have have Stuart Baird is his name and he did he honestly has pretty good uh filmography here yeah a lot of yeah a lot of familiar familiar names okay some that have already come up actually so I think he did have I don't know some kind of a good relationship with Donner so he did the film Tommy are these all films yeah um he did Tommy he was the editor on The Omen

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okay

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he was the editor on Superman he actually got a Best Film Editing Oscar nomination for that. He also was the editor on the Richard Donner cut of Superman 2. He, again, was the editor on both Lethal Weapon and Lethal Weapon 2. That's where he stops with working on that particular franchise. He gets another Best Film Editing Oscar nom for Gorillas in the Mist. He does Die Hard 2, The Last Boy Scout, Demolition Man, The Legend of Zorro Casino Royale, Salt, Skyfall, and the 2018 Tomb Raider. You

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know what else he did? Maverick.

SPEAKER_01:

Oh, okay. All right, moving on to the stars of our movie. We've already brought them up, but we're going to bring them up again. Yeah. Because this is actually the point of the podcast where we bring up the stars. All right. First, we have Matthew Broderick. So, yes, he plays Gaston. That's like how he's credited. But I think he's referred to most of the time as like the mouse in the film. So, and not the first time, of course, that we have brought him up. I mentioned Ferris Bueller's Day Off. And there's definitely multiple other films from this decade that I think at some point we will like for sure get to with him in it. So, I mean, it's kind of fun because actually he reteams with one of the other actors that We will get to in just a couple minutes in this film that he was acting against in War Games. Oh,

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yes.

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Yes. Yeah. And that person plays a totally different character. He's still

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playing a lot of games. Very different character.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, he's not a bad guy in that movie. He's just somebody who is like deeply grieving.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah. And he, on the other hand, is a very bad guy. Yes.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah. So that actor, a lot of range. But yeah, I mean, so many of his... credits just really well-known films mostly films in the beginning actually he kind of starts in film and then goes into tv a little bit more later in his career but um as mentioned war games he does ferris which that was season one so we encourage you to go back to that one um definitely i think we could do war games at some point we could also do project axe we could also do glory those all qualify

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are you up to it though glory

SPEAKER_01:

glory really uh is a tough one for me to get through, especially at the very end. Yeah, I know. Yeah, it's sad. Put

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that one in the queue.

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Gorgeously shot. The score is phenomenal, and it just tears me apart every time. He's in The Freshman, The Cable Guy, the 1998 Godzilla. Not

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bad Godzilla. Not a

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terrible one. No, it was fine. It was entertaining.

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I have heard the new, what is it, minus

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zero? Well, there's Godzilla minus one.

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Minus one, yeah.

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And then there's Godzilla versus... King Kong? Isn't there another

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one? Yeah, but the minus one one.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, it's gotten great reviews. He also got great feedback for his performance in the film Election. Yes. So he did that. Inspector Gadget, Strangers with Candy. I didn't realize he was in the film Manchester by the Sea. I haven't seen it, but he has a part in that. Okay. So TV work. He's actually had a bit on The Conners, which I didn't know. I didn't realize that either, yeah. We just stopped

SPEAKER_02:

watching that show for some reason. I don't know why. As

SPEAKER_01:

well as the TV show Better Things, also Daybreak. Even though he's only in this for maybe two episodes, I had to call out his cameo as himself in Only Murders in the Building.

SPEAKER_02:

And I just want to clarify one thing. We stopped watching Roseanne, and then when they changed it to Connors, we just never started

SPEAKER_01:

watching it again. Yeah, we just were like, whatever. It's fine. But he's so funny as this uh like just humorous take on his own character in only murders in the building

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oh yeah

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like it's it's so good and he i mean i feel like you have to have a pretty good attitude to be like sure i'll be on the show as myself but i'm gonna be super annoying and obnoxious um and he was great okay so moving on to rudgar rutger yeah you

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tried it didn't work

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well i've always I always

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called

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him Rutger Hauer um he has 173 acting credits of that 173 93 of them came from 2000 on when he was already 56 years old wow which i thought was really interesting like we see sometimes these actors and when i say actors i mean both male and female actors who actually really kind of like build steam uh later in life and i love seeing that and i think that's absolutely super cool yeah so uh because he was dutch uh he does have some dutch projects okay i'm not gonna list those off but probably like his like american kind of breakout role was of course blade runner

SPEAKER_02:

yeah he's incredible in that particularly his monologue towards the end

SPEAKER_01:

yeah so he's in that well known for that that's probably i would say the thing if maybe people aren't gonna think of this movie that he is known for i would say yeah okay yeah i think i think that's fair he's also in osterman Weekend, The Hitcher, the film version of Buffy the Vampire Slayer, Breeders, Confession of a Dangerous Mind, Sin City. I guess he actually had a role in Batman Begins.

SPEAKER_04:

Hmm.

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But I don't remember. It's been a while since I've seen that one. I've seen of that particular trilogy, The Dark Knight, far more than the first film or the last film.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, yeah. I think it's the best of the three. I don't think that's super controversial. No.

SPEAKER_01:

As far as TV work, though, I don't... Do I remember him on True Blood? He was on it. I don't know if I remember him.

SPEAKER_02:

The thing with him is, if you tell me that he was on a thing, I'm going to go like, oh, yeah. Sure. Yeah, I can see that. I can't really remember it, but sure.

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And then his final credit was a film called Break. Okay, so moving on to... Like, honestly, it's kind of a trio of leads because it's between Broderick, Hauer... And then Michelle Pfeiffer. Isabeau. Isabeau. And also not the first time that we have brought her up, though we definitely have other films. I mean, that even goes for Hauer because we still have not done Blade Runner. So all three of them can come up again in the future for sure. I

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mean, we're just trying to figure out which version of Blade Runner to watch.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, I know. That is actually a real consideration.

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Which cut should we do? We don't know. Call to action. Which cut of Blade

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Runner should we watch? Nothing to do with this movie.

UNKNOWN:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

So early in her career, she did do some TV work. She was on a TV series called Delta House. One of her earliest, maybe it was her very first film credit, The Hollywood Knights, K-N-I-G-H-T-S. Got it. Another TV series called Bad Cats, but it's like B period, A period, D period. So it's like an acronym. I don't know what for. She, of course, was in Grease 2. She

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sure was.

SPEAKER_01:

And that one we did just last season, right? Yeah. Yeah, season three. So go check that one out. Definitely at some point we'll do Scarface, which she is in, as well as, I've said this before, I really want to do Witches of Eastwick at some point. She's in Married to the Mob, Tequila Sunrise. So now she kind of goes on her little Oscar nomination part of her career. I don't know how else to put that. She gets a Best Supporting Actress nomination for Dangerous Liaisons. Then she follows that up with a Best Actress nomination for the fabulous baker boys she is amazing honestly i would say she deserves a nomination for this um but too late for that for batman returns

SPEAKER_02:

yeah there's a like a behind the scenes of her doing like she the whip yeah the whip scene where she like takes off the heads of the mannequins

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like she really could do that

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yeah she did all that it was yeah kind of incredible

SPEAKER_01:

she was phenomenal phenomenal in that film anyway she gets another best actress award nomination for Love Field, which I don't know. I don't know that movie.

SPEAKER_02:

I'll just say real quick about Catwoman, though. She did not dunk a basketball nearly as good as Holly Berry in the Catwoman movie, so... Moving on!

SPEAKER_01:

She's in The Age of Innocence, Wolf, Dangerous Minds, A Midsummer Night's Dream, What Lies Beneath, The 2007 Hairspray, Dark Shadows, and then she takes her turn at the Marvel Universe, the MCU. She is in Ant-Man and the Wasp. Oh, yeah. The follow-up, Quantumania.

SPEAKER_04:

Yeah,

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yeah.

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And Endgame. So she plays the same role, obviously, in all three.

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And, of course, the movie that we recently watched that she's in that is kind of a fun movie that gives me kind of like Princess Bride vibes.

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Oh,

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yeah. Stardust.

SPEAKER_01:

I'm so sorry that I didn't include that. That's okay.

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Yeah.

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No, that was fun.

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Yeah, she's great in

SPEAKER_01:

that. It's not a holiday movie, but it's kind of a fun movie to watch at the holidays.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah. Yeah, I would highly recommend. And you brought that to my attention. I didn't know that movie. So thank you. Okay, moving on to Leo McCurran, who plays Imperius. He is the older gentleman who helps out Navarre and Isabeau, especially when she, what is it that?

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, helps remove an arrow.

SPEAKER_01:

That's right, that's right. From her, yeah. That's right, okay. So he started his film career decades before this film came along so among some of his credits one of his earlier ones is the 1958 a tale of two cities ah

SPEAKER_02:

it was the best of times

SPEAKER_01:

i don't know this movie but i like the title it's just called i like money

SPEAKER_02:

yeah yeah that's the title it's a movie for everyone

SPEAKER_01:

this is actually a couple fun titles uh he was in a film called the day the earth caught fire all right it's a little ominous a little too timely he he was in the movie help oh yeah exclamation point Yep. Got it. Uh, he was in the Oscar winning film, A Man for All Seasons. He was in the decline and fall dot, dot, dot of a birdwatcher.

SPEAKER_04:

Okay.

SPEAKER_01:

Sounds kind of intriguing to be quite honest. Um, probably a more infamous credit. He's in the film, The Blue Lagoon, the Brooke Shields. Yeah. They

SPEAKER_02:

were kids. God damn it. I

SPEAKER_01:

know. Kind of a gross. Yeah. Uh, but then he rebounds to the French Lieutenant's woman. Okay. So he does that. And then his... What were you going to say? I said, well done. Oh, sure. And then his final credit is a film called Federation.

SPEAKER_02:

So this guy sounds pretty British. So I'm assuming he's British. Is that not the case? Are you telling me... I know you know. I don't know what you're talking about.

SPEAKER_01:

But yeah, you kind of like, oh, that's the British guy. Nope. He is... He's

SPEAKER_02:

Australian.

SPEAKER_01:

There you go. I was waiting for

SPEAKER_02:

it. I think it's weird that they make a point of giving you that fact about him but to be fair he does sound very British very

SPEAKER_01:

much so so yeah I mean I'm not gonna say like good on him because there's no reason to not be proud of like your Australian-ness but he did a good job of like I mean I don't know I don't think there's any are there any American actors who could really truly truly pull off a British accent

SPEAKER_02:

no not well it depends on who you ask if you ask some if you ask ask another American, they might be like, yeah. And if you ask anyone from the UK, they would say absolutely not.

SPEAKER_01:

I'm honestly trying to think right now of like an American that I can remember that did like a, where I thought, oh, they must be British because they did such a great British accent.

SPEAKER_02:

It is always the other way around.

SPEAKER_01:

Always, always the other way around. Yeah. Okay. So moving on to the gentleman that I mentioned earlier, John Wood. So he is the very Machiavellian, super- evil you know from the jump he's a bad guy bishop

SPEAKER_02:

you know immediately there's

SPEAKER_01:

no no uh

SPEAKER_02:

no ambiguity

SPEAKER_01:

ambiguity thank you about this guy so yeah and i i love him but i kind of hated him in this role because i know him as the like computer programming genius guy from war games and i really do like that character a lot and he has it's a character with depth like we don't see a lot of him but we know that like he lost his son and he's still grieving that yeah he has

SPEAKER_02:

like he has a backstory of all these like different layers whereas the backstory of your grace and lady hawk is just like this guy's always been a piece of shit

SPEAKER_01:

and he has like three lines like he just doesn't talk he just gives you like the stink eye the entire kind of

SPEAKER_02:

like wavers between these menacing looks and like like terrified looks

SPEAKER_01:

yeah yeah yeah but uh he's had he also is no longer with us but um an amazing career i thought this was just kind of a fun thing he was in the 1957 movie a man for all seasons so little uh a man for all seasons connection there um other than that i have all films for him so just like a woman nicholas and alexandra somebody killed her husband that's the name of the movie

SPEAKER_02:

okay probably the guy with the one arm oh

SPEAKER_01:

oh Oh. The aforementioned War Games. So I definitely want to do that. He was in The Purple Rose of Cairo, Heartburn, Jumpin' Jack Flash, Shadowlands, The Madness of King George. When I saw this title, I was like, he is in this movie. And I was like, oh, yeah, he is in this movie. He's in the remake of Sabrina. Oh,

SPEAKER_04:

really?

SPEAKER_01:

He's Sabrina's father. Okay. In that film. He's in Jane Eyre and Chocolat.

SPEAKER_02:

So what year was the... tale of two cities for the person that we just talked

SPEAKER_01:

uh let's see i don't have oh so was it

SPEAKER_02:

1965 it was in the 50s i think you mentioned right

SPEAKER_01:

so uh leo mccurn it was the 1958 a tale of two cities

SPEAKER_02:

okay and then john wood was in a tale of two cities the tv series from 1965

SPEAKER_01:

oh that's wow so they share kind of two credits a little bit between a tail like not the same credit but like the same property

SPEAKER_04:

yeah yeah

SPEAKER_01:

between a tale of two cities and then a man for all seasons yep oh that's pretty cool okay so moving on to it also kind of shows you how some of these properties are just redone and redone and redone and redone public

SPEAKER_02:

domain

SPEAKER_01:

yeah I don't know if they are public I don't know I don't know if they are but I just like saying it sounds cool it could be so now moving on to we just actually have one more person Alfred Molina of course yeah of course who plays Cesar Am I saying that?

SPEAKER_02:

Caesar?

SPEAKER_01:

Caesar. Okay. Caesar. Just Caesar. Caesar.

SPEAKER_02:

Let's just call him Doc Ock.

SPEAKER_01:

I know. He has some really fun early credits to his name. And he's also somebody who is going strong. He's

SPEAKER_02:

not very fun in this movie because he's so pretty much evil.

SPEAKER_01:

He's a gross little guy in this movie. Yeah. 226 acting credits so far. He's not done. But, I mean, a lot of people maybe first became aware of him for his infamous part of the Raiders cold open.

SPEAKER_02:

Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah. So, yeah. He's in that. Toss me the

SPEAKER_02:

idol. I'll throw you the whip.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah. Yeah. So, he's in that. He's in Enchanted April, Deadman, Boogie Nights. He's a pretty infamous actor. his role in that as well

SPEAKER_04:

oh

SPEAKER_01:

Magnolia he's also in Chocolat I saw that I saw that in theater but I haven't seen it since so I don't know I don't remember much of the story um I remember it being charming I don't know that's it

SPEAKER_02:

there you go that's look that's more than they could have ever hoped

SPEAKER_01:

he's in Frida and then this is kind of fun he's really good in

SPEAKER_02:

Frida

SPEAKER_01:

he is in the Sam Raimi trilogy of Spider-Man so he's in Spider-Man 2 which is for sure were the best. I think it's better than the original. I love Spider-Man 2.

SPEAKER_02:

It is really, really good.

SPEAKER_01:

It's so good. He's in The Da Vinci Code, which we watch that movie a lot because it's just always on TV. It's

SPEAKER_02:

just on. We're not seeking this out.

SPEAKER_01:

No, we're not seeking out the movie, but it's always on TV and it's kind of like a weird comfort film to just tap on. Depends on where it is. Depends on

SPEAKER_02:

where in the movie it is.

SPEAKER_01:

It does depend on where it is. And I really love Alfred Molina, but between him and Vision and that film. Their part of it is kind of over the top, especially Vision. I

SPEAKER_02:

appreciate that neither one of us remember his name. So for everyone familiar with the Marvel Cinematic Universe, it's that guy that's Vision.

SPEAKER_01:

But he's in that. And then what's fun is that Harry prizes his role as Doc Ock in Spider-Man No Way Home.

SPEAKER_02:

You know what else he's in? Pretty big role, in fact. That's right. Maverick. Oh. Yep.

SPEAKER_01:

Huh. I didn't know that.

SPEAKER_02:

Yep.

SPEAKER_01:

I didn't even include that.

SPEAKER_02:

He is a major character. I'm

SPEAKER_01:

sorry. I'm really, I guess, dissing a hard Maverick in this episode because I just refuse to bring it up even

SPEAKER_02:

though there's multiple connections. Guess what we're watching tonight.

SPEAKER_01:

Mmm. Not Maverick. So all right fair enough he's in that um i don't honestly like he has done actually a lot of tv work just nothing that's like been more like like recurring more one-offs although more recently he has been on a tv series called the summer camp island which i don't know what that is but okay um so yeah okay so film synopsis

SPEAKER_02:

what do we got

SPEAKER_01:

the thief gaston escapes the dungeon of the medieval aquila am i saying that right i think so yeah okay through the la soldiers are about to kill him when Navar saves him. Navar, traveling with his spirited hawk, plans to kill the bishop of Aquila to, use my words, with help from Gaston. What are we doing here? The whole point of why I got, it was such a hard time to get through this because that is not a fucking good

SPEAKER_02:

synopsis. That's not a synopsis. That is like, you've just described kind of a portion of, it's

SPEAKER_01:

not a synopsis. I get that synopsis can indicate something more than just a single sentence logline, but... Are we trying to hide the fact that this movie Ladyhawk

SPEAKER_02:

is about a lady

SPEAKER_01:

that's a hawk? Yeah, that's the other thing too, is like they kind of bury the lead about what the film's really about. So they say a whole lot of nothing, kind of.

SPEAKER_02:

This may be one of my least favorite synopses of all time. Yeah, it's not good. And we've seen some bad ones. We've seen some good ones. This one, not one of those. Not so good.

SPEAKER_01:

So on that note, Let's get into it with our special returning guest, Andrew.

SPEAKER_02:

Let's do it.

SPEAKER_01:

All right. We're so excited to have this special guest back on the show, Andrew M. Edwards. He is a composer and multi-instrumentalist. He's based in Palm Springs and he creates music for literally all types of mediums. He works on musicals, film, television, pop songs, audio dramas, concert works, and video games we are in particular very lucky to have him back so soon because he was just with us earlier this same season for Legend and so we definitely encourage everybody to go back to that episode to hear his thoughts on that film and of course today we have him for Ladyhawk I mean in terms of like my line of questioning as it were I only ever have one leading question and that Andrew, I'm very curious to know what, if any, first memories you have of this film when you first saw it, how it resonated with you, anything you got.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, you know, I can't remember if I saw it in the theater, but it's interesting. I was dating myself, but I was like 11 when it came out, 11, 12. And I didn't remember seeing it in the theater. I'll talk about like the history of that time later on, but like the, in terms of what was going on in movies, but I, I missed it in the theater. That was also the year, like back to the future came out, you know, there's a lot of really great movies came out that year, but the, but my memories of it are watching it. We always watched it at church youth group lock-ins, you know, where they like lock you into the church overnight. So like it, which was a thing. And I, I was, I was big into my church youth group when I was in high school, they were all lovely people and, and, um, many still friends to this day, but the, um, but they do the lock-ins and we'd watch all these movies and the movies. I always remember watching rear window and lady Hawk. And, um, so anytime I watch either one of those movies, I'm like suddenly in the basement of the church at like three in the morning, watching lady Hawk. Oh, that's, It's incredible because the bishop is the hero of this movie. well yeah I just I have memories of I don't think I've seen it in the theater either this feels like it was like a VHS or cable kind of thing but I remember it and my memory goes back far enough to where the music didn't really stand out in the way that it does watching it now like I remember when I first watched it I'm like this all kind of makes sense this is cool well that's a thing that's a thing that also stuck with me is that even as a you know, and it was, yeah, it was the eighties. It's music didn't stick out to me either. Um, but the, um, In hindsight, it's another matter, which we'll discuss. But what I remember was I thought the concept was so cool. And Matthew Broderick, on whom I had a huge crush in the early 80s, of course, who carries the film, talking to God, the camera, like that's such a crazy, funny, sort of weirdly quirky way of... of doing that melodramatic, that operatic of a story to have it anchored with him. And most of the time that either he's talking or they're dealing with sort of the sweeping epic scope of this story, the movie works super, super well. So I always remember the bones of the movie being good. And on this rewatch, and this is the first time I've watched it all the way through in a long time, I think that stands. I think the bones of the movie are really good. It's hung on a good structure, narratively. Absolutely. Because the bones, like you said, of a good story are there, for sure. I think sometimes we watch movies from the 80s and they feel dated in terms of how characters interact with each other or there are problematic things. This movie, it's just the story exceeded what they were able to do from a visual effects perspective, notwithstanding the incredible opening credit sequence where you just get glamour shots of a hawk. Oh, I actually like the way... I like that they didn't... This is before Terminator 2, right? So nobody could morph anything. to anything. I actually really love the way he shot. Cause I mean, Donner's no slouch. He, you know, he go look him up. He shot the Omen. He shot Superman, the movie, like he, the man knows filmmaking. So like the abstract montages of transformation, instead of trying to do some kind of green screen nonsense is so much more aesthetically like satisfying to watch then, you know? Yeah. One thing I did like, even, even during like that, like middle portion where it was stalling a bit and I think like if I was going to give any like major criticism it would be the pacing at times so particularly in that middle portion but what I did like was that every time one of those changes would happen it would be an opportunity for Broderick's character to kind of like make up what the other what he thinks the other person wants to hear so it's it's daytime and he would be telling Rutger Hauer oh yes this is what she said she like never loses hope and then And then the same thing. So I thought that was sweet of his character. But aside from that, yeah, it did lag a bit at times.

UNKNOWN:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02:

Well, again, he's the MVP in terms of pace and tone. He just keeps tapping the balloon up every time the movie starts lagging. It's like Matthew Broderick comes back on, and you're like, oh, well, at least he's talking, and this is fun dialogue. No, I'm serious. He saves a lot of scenes in that movie. I also really like John Wood, and funnily, I've been watching the classic Avengers series, which is a sci-fi British series from the 60s with Diana Rigg and Patrick McNee. Anyway, they just put the first full-color season with McNee and Diana Rigg on Amazon Prime. So if you have Prime Video, you can watch it on there. But anyway, it's a who's who of amazing British genre actors who just keep showing up in everything. It's like, oh, that's... Brian Blessed just showed up in one. Peter Cushing has been in one. I just saw Donald Sutherland was just in one but um uh but john wood is is in that playing like a villainous dude in that season like 20 years before lady hawk oh that's why he's so good he's had years and years of doing tv so the the bishop is is a great character because john what is playing him not because of what was written on the page or what showed up in the films you know, after editing the, the, the Bishop, the Bishop's motivations are, are crystal clear, but like, that's all he has. Like he's kind of one note, uh, uh, in that regard, but John would just can conveys all of these like layers of, you know, anger and jealousy and, uh, you know, rage and, uh, evil, obviously, since he made a deal like with the devil, like he's, he, he, adds so much just through looking like his face acting like he doesn't have to say anything like he uh and i think that that's a big reason why he's as effective a villain as he is because he's he's pretty woefully uh not woefully he's just he's underwritten he's he's he's a little mustache twirly it seemed like even if um He seems like he was never a great guy, the bishop, but that angst or the anger that he seems to have throughout the movie was never directed at Hauer or Pfeiffer until the love triangle,

SPEAKER_03:

such

SPEAKER_02:

as it was, occurred. It feels like we've seen these stories or similar stories like Game of Thrones where there's a captain of the guard who's willing to do something because his honor is on the line in that role as being a knight. That would be my perspective on Hauer's character until it actually directly impacted him, and then suddenly the quest of his generation suddenly became to kill the bishop. Yeah, and I think I agree. I think that... the, uh, Oh God, I just completely lost my train of thought. I was super into what you were saying. Um, uh, I think that the bishop, I agree. I think the bishop was probably pretty run of the mill corrupt until he got rejected by Isabeau, which turned him into, you know, like an incel. I don't know. But anyway. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So he got, you know, so I think as soon as he made a deal with the devil to put a curse on them, I feel like that was where he probably literally lost his soul and got really terrible. after that point. But I, I feel like the catalyst for that was Isabeau rejecting him and then him discovering that it's because he was with her, his captain of the guard. About, I have a question about how these three characters are interconnected beyond just like their, you know, the way that their stories have affected each other, but with respect to the curse that, that is, it somehow connects all three of them in a way that I don't, think I realized or was talked about much. I think, um, Imperius talks about it a little bit when he's trying to tell Rooker Howard and he has to tell him a lot of times to not just run in and kill the Bishop. But when, um, when Isabeau is getting the, the arrow removed, it seemed to have like an actual, like impact, like a physical effect on the Bishop. Oh, right. Like when, when that was getting removed was when he was like, like rolling around back and forth in bed. I think it seems like he had a visceral reaction to that arrow being removed from him. And so I, they don't talk about it much. They just kind of like showed it as an aside to show that these three characters are connected somehow. But I didn't know if you had, if you'd noticed that or thought anything about that either way. Well, I did. And it, I feel like that should have been, even if visually like, you know, again, we had a lot of info from, from imperious, but like, uh, just visually show that those connections exist.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02:

You know, I feel like they do it some, but I feel like it could have been done more.

SPEAKER_01:

Okay. So I have a question about this curse, which is why this curse? Because I feel like the bishop, I mean, it could have just been like a death sentence for both of them. And the fact that he, I don't know, I guess I would assume that like death is the most severe kind of punishment you can inflict upon somebody, but instead he allows them to live. And relatively speaking, they're like unharmed it's not like they're in pain I mean I guess emotional pain in terms of being separated from each other but why why this type of curse if you I don't know have any thoughts about that

SPEAKER_02:

I feel like it's I feel like if I can't have her nobody can and also F you too dude you know like just basically like they're you know when you're when you're in a sort of religious This mindset, you think a lot about long stretches of time, right? You know, eternity, your eternal soul forever and ever. And so like, you know, instead of killing somebody, which is sort of, you know... terminal right finite instead you can just let their suffering endure for all your time you know i i just feel like that's a kind of a hallmark of of the bishop's mindset as a religious man as to just everything goes on and on and on and on eternal torment eternal glory eternal you know internal romantic tension that that one scene towards the uh end of the movie when they get what like a second or so where they actually can like look at each other.

SPEAKER_03:

Sure.

SPEAKER_02:

In the eyes as, as humans. And then, and then he's gone and he's just like enraged, you know, Rooker Howard is just, and that's like the Bishop somewhere as far as be like, cool. Yeah, that's a great moment. That's a really great moment. I love that bit. So I used to teach film music history to film composers at a graduate school. So this is pretty niche, but one of the things that I realized was that we spend 15 weeks talking about amazing film scorers like John Williams and Danny Elfman and everybody on down list and I realized that it would probably be a good idea to show people examples of film scores that don't work and that are or maybe miss the mark or maybe are more experimental than others just to tweak your mind you know to think about other stuff and one of the exercises I used to do was play the play the scene early in the film it's an excellent scene where Matthew brought her has just successfully escaped and has stopped at this beer garden. But the evil Captain of the Guard guy, I can't remember his name, is there. And there's a big chase sequence where he wriggles out of the arms and goes under the table. It's this really fun sequence. And I used to play that with the sound off for the composers and have them imagine how a composer might approach that scene And then I would play them the scene with the sound turned up. And never once did it not elicit just howls and groans of disbelief that someone would do this. and it's really interesting why the film is scored this way because apparently the whole time they were shooting in Italy Richard Donner was listening to the Alan Parsons project and and who now to just full disclosure I like the Alan Parsons project I just don't think this score works but the but I'll clarify in a minute but the so he literally hired Andrew Powell who is in the Alan Parsons project to score um and uh and alan parsons produced it uh the score you may have caught his name in the opening credits

SPEAKER_03:

yes

SPEAKER_02:

but the um but uh so i i realized when you were watching it and we had a couple friends over to watch it with us and we all sort of agreed that the score is actually really good when you don't notice it When the score is, when it's like the dramatic scene, like the dramatic scene at the end, like the big climactic scene is terrific. Like the music is great. It works. It's supporting the narrative. It's like in the fabric of, of this beautifully shot and performed film.

UNKNOWN:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02:

Anytime it starts the sort of synthy stuff, it just doesn't work. It sticks out like a sore thumb, and the thing that it really does... I used to just have sort of aesthetic objections to it, because it's anachronistic, but I've seen people do cool anachronistic things. That's not the reason. It's just... it makes the movie feel small. It makes the movie feel like television. As soon as that starts, it's like, why are we on an episode of Magnum P.I.? And then there'll be something orchestral that comes in later under a dramatic scene and you won't notice the music because it's doing its job correctly. It's supporting the drama. It's just heightening the scene and doing its... little psychological emotional job there in the background the second that those the the sense in the guitar and the four on the floor kick drum kick in it's just it's brutal I mean it's such a crazy disconnect and it's hard to I still struggle with how Richard Donner who on his previous two films worked with Jerry Goldsmith who won an Oscar for the Omen directed by Richard Donner and Superman the motion Picture, which is scored by John Williams, would then do this. It just, and I get wanting to push through and do something new, but the film works when that musical element is not present. And any time that comes in, you, I mean, it's almost laugh inducing. I mean, it's really, it's just jarring and it's dated and it's dated or it's aged so badly, like so badly. What it, what it kind of makes me think of is how the, like the music for the princess bride, but the difference is it's like, you're watching a storybook coming to life in the princess bride. And so like, like the quirky things they do with the music works as opposed to this, which is like a much like ostensibly like grittier, like real story. They're trying to immerse you in this world. And then you hear like a baseline drop, like you're watching for your eyes only with, uh, you know, which was probably Roger Moore. Yeah.

UNKNOWN:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, totally. Yeah. I wonder, I, I, I will say though, rewatching it this time, uh, But neither of our friends or their mom, who is here as well, it didn't seem to stick out to them as much as it did to me. And I noticed this time watching it that the scenes that do work, I actually really liked the music in a lot of the film. So I used to sort of blanket poo-poo the whole movie, but there's actually a lot to enjoy in the score in between the like the, Oh, our friends kept saying Jane Fonda, the Jane Fonda workout. Like that every time it kicked on it, it was the Jane Fonda workout. Yeah. So, yeah. So anyway, sorry. Like the, it's obviously dated. And I wonder to what extent that has, like that plays a role in how you think of it now. I think it, It makes me just curious as to what the thought process was or what the reaction was to that soundtrack when the movie first came out. If it was as jarring or if people were just like, let's just go with it. But now the combination of those two between the ill-fitting music and how dated it is just exacerbates the problem. Well, and I'm sure there's probably a wide audience of folks who don't notice. But to anyone who's sort of used to... I would say that this is also an interesting time just in terms of film history. So this is 1985. And this came out in April of 85, if I remember correctly. And... the year before in july of the previous year is when pg-13 was born So PG-13, for those who don't know, was created by the Motion Picture Association, the MPAA, in 1984 as a response to Indiana Jones and the Temple of Doom and Gremlins pushing the envelope of what folks thought was appropriate. So there's a huge shift in how films are made at that point because directors wanted to avoid getting a PG-13. at first. Now people want to do it because more people can see it and it lands on more screens. But at the time, because it was this new thing and nobody knew what it meant, everyone thought, oh, that must mean it's bad. I'm not going to take my kid. So people started steadfastly working to avoid getting a PG-13 rating that year. This came out not even a year after that and i have to think that there were story tone and narrative choices made in the making of lady hawk out of a pure response to that to avoid the third the pg-13 the pg-13 so i feel like it the the lighter touch the kind of you know verges on silly especially with the music kind of lightening it up like that i feel like there's because it feels like a darker story but then it feels like they're backing away from it a lot. It's like testing to see if the burner is on or not with your hand. Backing away from it. I feel like one of the reasons I think that the tone of the film is as sort of inconsistent as it is, is because of that. Donner spent three or four years getting the funding and all the stuff together to make the film in development, that would be mostly before PG-13 came along. So I don't know for a fact if that is actually what went into the thinking, but I would be very, very surprised if it wasn't a consideration when they were making the film. Some directors, you start watching the movie and you're like, oh, this is a Kubrick movie. You can just tell immediately, oh, this is a Wes Anderson movie or you know this is this is I would I would bet money this is a David Lynch movie you know like you can you can kind of pick who people are or you know by their by just like a couple of frames um Spielberg too uh just the way he shoot frames people especially but um uh I think with Richard Donner I think he's just like a workman like director you know and he's he seems like he's very collaborative um I think he gives a lot of leeway to his dps just from watching those movies like because lady hawk feels like you know if you watch superman and then watch this you would not think those were the same directors so you you think that you know uh stararo did we say vittorio stararo is that his name yeah the the i i feel like he got a lot of leeway to shoot his beautiful country you know uh i but i but it's funny i think lady hawk is probably his least well edited film because a lot the shots are always interesting and kinetic and he's always coming in from the side like it's really cool angles you know he shoots people shots always have depth and people are always in interesting places in the frame he's got a really good eye and he knows how to you know execute stuff and I think that that's probably the thing that pops out. Like if you watch the original Superman, like it takes a while to get to the, to the good stuff in that, you know, but he just shoots it at this deliberate pace and it looks beautiful. Every shot looks great. The closest thing between Superman and lady Hawk is the shots of like Kansas at the beginning of Superman that were all shot. They're all shot at golden hour, like to like, uh, but, um, You can't fault a director for liking Golden

SPEAKER_01:

Hour, though. portion of the beginning of the film devoted to Gaston and then we are introduced to Navarre and Isabeau and then it kind of becomes more so their story that was just kind of a unusual story structure for me and so it's kind of like bouncing back and forth in terms of like okay whose story are we actually following I know that it can be more than one but it was just an interesting way of setting up this world and these characters so So now that, you know, I obviously know how it all plays out, I think I would want to watch it again to just kind of more so allow it to wash over me because I was maybe trying too hard when I first watched it to try to kind of figure out where it was going to next. But I mean, that does actually lead me to another question I have, which is, you know, once we get to the end and the big showdown between the bishop and Navarre and Isabeau, I mean, I'm very I'm very curious your thoughts Andrew because you know it's it is the climax of the film and it's finally this moment where Navar and Isabeau are kind of like released from this curse and can be reunited and I don't know what I was expecting I don't think I was expecting them to just kind of just kind of like look at each other and not really um have have this like I don't know obviously they do eventually embrace and it's like kind of this like dirty dancing moment at some point but like I don't know it just was like a really interesting way that they acknowledged each other after the curse and the way that they like came to each other I was expecting maybe a little bit more passion behind it so anyway I'm just curious like what your thoughts are on that

SPEAKER_02:

it's I agree with you I think that the one of the one of the weird tonal things about it is that it's this very sort of passionate romance and But maybe it's just because Rutger Hauer is Dutch and so he's playing it. Is he Dutch? I think he's Dutch. He's just playing it very cool. He's very detached. He's not at all passionate about this romance. He's very aloof about it. And I feel like the film wants him to be aloof about it. It never quite wholeheartedly commits to being an actually passionate romantic film. And I think that's one of the... that what you're describing at the end is a symptom of that and then also um the other thing that uh that we haven't mentioned uh apart from the fact that she is like luminously beautiful in this film michelle pfeiffer um like her skin glows for like most of the movie it's she's crazy looking but anyway um is her character has has a zero backstory right like navar navar was Navar was captain of the guard and that's more backstory than we get for her so like she was just Isabel did she do anything like was she a seamstress or like was she just like a lady in waiting or something like does she have a family you know like there's just and I get that they're trying to do a fairy tale thing and a lot of times in fairy tales you know but I mean one line I'm an orphan you know I'm a one thing would add you know even a little more depth to her so i feel like the two things that keep the road the romance which is like the central thing of the film from being more sort of felt by the audience is the oddly dispassionate way the camera handles it and the way the actors are sort of oh you're there i guess i'll walk over towards you now like it's strange like um um yeah there's just a weird tonal thing there with with with how they play the romance because on paper like that romance is just heartbreaking like it's so wonderful and like the longing at sunset you know and stuff it's poetic as hell and borderline operatic like it's great but they they it just feels like everyone's sort of

SPEAKER_03:

oh we don't want to get too

SPEAKER_02:

too you know It's strange.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah. I mean, I'm, I'm really happy that you brought up in particular, Isabeau's lack of backstory. Definitely. I mean, I've, I've kind of made my, um, opinion clear in terms of like her, like, I just wanted to know more about all of them and certainly her story, you know, like you said, she's the only woman really, um, that we get to know in this film and I don't know I just really appreciate that you brought that up because yes like she's certainly more than just Navar's love interest and so it would have been pretty cool to get to learn more about her but I mean overall I did really enjoy this film and I've really enjoyed this conversation it's been absolutely amazing to get to talk to you again about a really fun film and especially one that like you put on my radar so just thank you so much Andrew for being on the show and you know when we first introduced you I was talking about just the really interesting creative work that you do and just want to put it out there for all of our listeners you can certainly keep up to date with all of Andrew's professional happenings he has his own website that you can hit up it's andrewm m as in mary edwards.com so please do and just in terms of like getting to experience his work and his music I mean you can find it in just a million different places Spotify Apple Music Amazon he has a lot of really fun stuff coming up so again Andrew just thank you so much it was truly our pleasure to have you on the show

SPEAKER_02:

my absolute pleasure y'all are the best thank you very much

SPEAKER_01:

Andrew thank you again for coming back to the show the

SPEAKER_02:

Thank you for reviving everybody's interest in both high fantasy and high fantasy with a bit of a disco beat. There you go.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah. I think I know the answer to this.

SPEAKER_02:

Yes. Wait, what's

SPEAKER_01:

the question? What was the

SPEAKER_02:

question? I don't know. What was it? What were you going to ask

SPEAKER_01:

me? Would you watch this film again?

SPEAKER_02:

Oh, yeah. Yes. There you go. Yeah. I like this movie. It is... a flawed movie for sure but it's kind of a fun fun Ferris Bueller's day off mixed with high fantasy mixed with very like ill-fitting disco music mixed with a guy whose first name we can't agree on it's

SPEAKER_01:

all those things

SPEAKER_02:

all those things and so much more

SPEAKER_01:

yeah and I I mean this is definitely one of those cases where you have perhaps a greater fondness for this film than I do. I didn't, I didn't, I, I'm not saying I don't have a fondness for it. I didn't know it before we watched it for this episode.

SPEAKER_04:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

So all to say, I don't have like, uh, I haven't formed a connection with this film yet. Yet. I'm not saying I won't.

SPEAKER_02:

I accept that.

SPEAKER_01:

So I think that if I, okay, so it's not going to

SPEAKER_02:

ever be on. It's

SPEAKER_01:

not. Oh, Oh, really?

SPEAKER_02:

This is not Da Vinci Code. It's not just on.

SPEAKER_01:

It's never on? No. I guess I don't see

SPEAKER_02:

it. No. No, it's not. Yeah. This is a movie you have to seek out, and that is part of the problem.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

I mean, look, if you one day were like, I feel like watching Ladyhawk and you put it on, I'd watch it with you. Yeah, I've done that before. Have you? Yeah.

UNKNOWN:

Oh.

SPEAKER_01:

Did I watch it with you? No. No, because we watched

SPEAKER_02:

it this you're like I've never seen this before I just looked over you like what

SPEAKER_01:

well in the future I'll watch it with you call to action what is a call to action here well okay look both on and off the record with Andrew we brought up a lot of things relating to especially the end of this film where

SPEAKER_04:

yeah

SPEAKER_01:

yeah Where I'm very curious, like, so all of the Bishop's dudes do literally nothing and just, they don't say anything. They don't do anything. And even like once the Bishop's dead and Navar and Isabeau reunite and all as well, like they just don't do anything. So like, well, what was there even a point to having them there? Like they could have had this whole showdown without those guys.

SPEAKER_02:

Yes. Yeah. Right. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02:

No. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

That's fair. So, I mean, and I'm not trying to, like, poke holes in this film. Because

SPEAKER_02:

if you were going to poke holes, you could start with the shape-shifting, like, people and animals.

SPEAKER_01:

Sure. I mean, that's fine. It's fun. It's fantasy. This is more, like, I can forgive a lot. But

SPEAKER_02:

the gross incompetence of these guys.

SPEAKER_01:

Yes. I can forgive a lot when it comes to fantasy.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah,

SPEAKER_01:

yeah. But when it's, like, the stuff that's actually rooted in reality, I'm like, what was even the fucking point of these guys? being here and they don't say a goddamn word the entire time yeah no they don't so i'm just curious like it's maybe a weird thing to harp on but like if other people notice that if they have thoughts about that if there's something that i'm not considering i don't know

SPEAKER_02:

that's my call to action where where can people provide this feedback

SPEAKER_01:

you don't have one yourself i

SPEAKER_02:

already gave it it was just for another movie oh geez

SPEAKER_01:

okay so sure if you want to get in touch with us we would love to hear from you you can email get in touch through Facebook, Twitter X, whatever you wanted to call that, and Instagram. It's the same handle for all three. It is at 80s Montage Pod and 80s is 80s.

SPEAKER_02:

Whatever happened to threads? Is that still a thing? I

SPEAKER_01:

gotta

SPEAKER_02:

figure that out. I think so does meta.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah. Didn't it like really drop in like usage or something after like the first week? I think so. That sounds right. Anyway. All right. Arsenic Peak. It's our season finale all right it's our last episode of season four wow wow yeah well do you know i you've got to know what it is i don't i don't have to you know what it is yes you do give me give me a small clue watched it the other night um perhaps oh okay you you know how earlier I was saying that I feel like Richard Donner directed the best like child actors ever in the Goonies. This film and the lead in it really gives that statement a run for its money. She might be the thing that actually proves me wrong.

SPEAKER_02:

Well, look, I know, I know that this is going to be, um, the last film of the year. It'll be kind of a Christmas theme. Sure. I'm guessing. And, I know Dasher and Dancer and someone else and Vixen and Common Cupid and Donner and Blitzen. But what's the one I'm forgetting? What's the one right after Dancer? Prancer!

SPEAKER_01:

Rudolph the Red No-No.

SPEAKER_02:

That might be the worst.

SPEAKER_01:

It's okay. I really appreciate the effort. I could see you trying there and I appreciate that.

SPEAKER_02:

I hope, you know, the fact that it was just improv, maybe that helps a little bit. Yeah, yeah. This was not... This

SPEAKER_01:

is a film that maybe a lot of people... It's perhaps not on their radar as far as, like, a holiday movie from the 80s. I

SPEAKER_02:

just think that people, yeah, they wouldn't be expecting what kind of movie it is and, like, the depth of, like, the feeling from this movie. It is not just, like, a silly, goofy... christmas movie with a reindeer

SPEAKER_01:

it is so wholesome it's gonna literally tear at the heartstrings you will cry yeah

SPEAKER_04:

yeah

SPEAKER_01:

and the lead actress who i don't know how old she was when she did this maybe eight eight ten years old she's great she is a phenomenal phenomenal in this film please just watch it for her like who cares about you being having contacts for our podcast like just go watch it for her performance call

SPEAKER_02:

to action go watch that movie and then

SPEAKER_01:

listen to us talk about it. Okay, sure. Yes, Prancer is going to be our season finale. This is wrapping up, as I mentioned, season four and it's also wrapping up kind of this mega season of awesome returning guests. We've had many returning guests to the show this particular season and this is no different. We're going to have one of our favorite people back. Actually, we're going to have one of our, this is kind of like an Elise and Will situation. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Where we're going to have back one of our favorite people and then we're adding to it another favorite person. So super excited. And thank you again to everybody for hanging with us. We really appreciate you spending your time with us when you have so many choices and we will talk to you again in two weeks time.