'80s Movie Montage

E.T. the Extra-Terrestrial

• Anna Keizer & Derek Dehanke • Season 1 • Episode 10

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With special guest Daniel Strange, Anna and Derek discuss everyone's favorite Reese's Pieces-eating alien.

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Anna Keizer and Derek Dehanke are the co-hosts of ‘80s Movie Montage. The idea for the podcast came when they realized just how much they talk – a lot – when watching films from their favorite cinematic era. Their wedding theme was “a light nod to the ‘80s,” so there’s that, too. Both hail from the Midwest but have called Los Angeles home for several years now. Anna is a writer who received her B.A. in Film/Video from Columbia College Chicago and M.A. in Film Studies from Chapman University. Her dark comedy short She Had It Coming was an Official Selection of 25 film festivals with several awards won for it among them. Derek is an attorney who also likes movies. It is a point of pride that most of their podcast episodes are longer than the movies they cover.  

Daniel Strange first established himself as a unique comedic voice as the Director/Editor of "Between Two Ferns with Zach Galifianakis", and has gone on to a varied career: directing 100+ commercials, writing video games ("Spider-Man: Shattered Dimensions"), producing shows ("Written by a Kid", "KISStory"), even giving a presentation about his animated short, "Scary Smash," at Walt Disney Animation.

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SPEAKER_05:

This is reality for this.

SPEAKER_04:

Hello and welcome to 80s movie montage. This is Derek.

SPEAKER_02:

And this is Anna.

SPEAKER_04:

That's right, Greg. This is reality.

SPEAKER_02:

This is reality.

SPEAKER_04:

Yeah, actually, this is E.T. The Extraterrestrial this week's featured movie.

SPEAKER_02:

And your pick.

SPEAKER_04:

It is my pick, yeah. I loved I like this movie. I liked this movie when I was a kid. I don't know if I loved it, but I really enjoyed it. But I can confidently say that now I really do love this movie.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, and we'll I I think that will become very apparent as far as how we both feel about it when we eventually are bringing in our special guest for this week, Daniel Strange. He is an amazing friend and an amazing artist. He has this tremendous love of film, and in particular, it's really clear that he loves this film.

SPEAKER_04:

Aaron Powell And he brings a level of insight, not just to this movie and in our interview with him, but to so many things. So I'm not surprised that that when we started talking about this with him, he brought up details that I would have never thought of, and he brings a perspective that is just amazing.

SPEAKER_02:

Aaron Powell Which also then brought up all these emotions. He really he really brought it out of us.

SPEAKER_04:

Yeah, yeah, he did.

SPEAKER_02:

So, okay, E.T. Um, what's actually really interesting. Okay, so this actually, you know what? I just realized what this is our 10th episode.

SPEAKER_04:

It is. Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02:

And this is the first of our Steven Spielberg directed films.

SPEAKER_04:

Is that right? He's he's been involved in several of them, but this is the first one that's Yeah.

SPEAKER_02:

I mean, he was a producer on Back to the Future.

SPEAKER_04:

He's featured prominently in the uh Cindy Lauper Goonies. Right.

SPEAKER_02:

So he also produced on Goonies.

SPEAKER_04:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02:

Um, but this is the first of his directed films that we're covering. So that's that's kind of cool.

SPEAKER_04:

That's very cool.

SPEAKER_02:

And also side by side with Steven Spoerk, which we we get into quite a bit with Dan. Uh, this is also the first of our John Williams scored films.

SPEAKER_04:

Is it really?

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04:

Wow. I'm I'm like mentally thinking back to the other movies that we've gone through, and I'm I can't believe that.

SPEAKER_02:

I swear I'm not lying. Yeah, no.

SPEAKER_04:

I believe you. I just don't believe myself.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, I mean, it we'll probably have quite a few more because we do have coming down the pipeline a lot of like raiders and and that sort of thing.

SPEAKER_04:

So we'll so many of his um I mean he he's done obviously a ton of work, and he's probably best known for Star Wars, obviously, but I think this particular score, there's a tendency or a possibility that's overlooked just because it's one of the fewer of these like standalone films. Right. But he did win an Academy Award for it, and as we'll get into later, it did directly impact Spielberg's direction of the movie and the the end in particular.

SPEAKER_02:

So, okay, so we're already kind of going to that place where we're talking about the people behind the scenes who were part of this film. So E.T. 1982. So earlier in the eight.

SPEAKER_04:

We're going back.

SPEAKER_02:

This might be, in fact, the earliest of the films that we've covered so far.

SPEAKER_04:

I think it is. A lot of them have been kind of like mid to late 80s. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, correct. So before we get back to Mr. Spielberg and Mr. Williams, let's start at the beginning, which is with the writer.

SPEAKER_04:

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_02:

Uh, the writer on this, Melissa, Melissa, pardon me, Matheson.

SPEAKER_04:

Okay.

SPEAKER_02:

And I mean, she look, she she didn't have an extensive, unfortunately, she's no longer with us. Uh, she didn't have an extensive writing resume.

SPEAKER_04:

Okay.

SPEAKER_02:

But I feel like if you wrote E.T., then you're That's all you need. That's all you really need. I mean, she does have other credits among them uh The Indian in the Cupboard.

SPEAKER_04:

That's that's actually a solid uh solid movie. Was it a that was based on a book, I think, right?

SPEAKER_02:

I believe so. Um she also did, I think actually perhaps all of these other credits are based off of uh existing IP. Cundun, do you remember that movie?

SPEAKER_04:

No, I don't think that's real.

SPEAKER_02:

It it's real. Okay. It's real, and she wrote it.

SPEAKER_04:

Okay. All right.

SPEAKER_02:

And then uh, so I believe she passed, I want to say, in 2015, and her last credit actually uh is from 2016, and that's the BFG, which also was directed by Skelberg. So that was, I believe, the last of her her credits.

SPEAKER_01:

All right.

SPEAKER_02:

Um perhaps, like I I kind of hate doing this because she was an incredible creative and wrote these great stories, but also part of what people may know her from is the fact that she used to be married to Harrison Ford.

SPEAKER_04:

Oh, okay.

SPEAKER_02:

So that's also part of who who she was. Sure. Um, and in fact, she I believe was on set while they were doing Raiders, which preceded E.T. by a year, and she did a lot of the writing with Spielberg while they were filming Raiders. Oh yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04:

That's a that's a good time.

SPEAKER_02:

He, I mean, talk about multitasking, uh, because he was directing Raiders while he was also, you know, getting this story together. And then we talk about again with Dan that while he was directing E.T., he was also producing on poltergeist. So that's that's uh was uh was and is a busy man. Yes. Um so as we said, Spielberg, and it I briefly mentioned it with our talk with Dan that I mean it's I I don't know what you can say about Spielberg that hasn't been said already.

SPEAKER_04:

I mean, he's there's not much, although, yeah, no, there's there's just not much.

SPEAKER_02:

He is arguably the one of the greatest directors of all time, not just of the modern era film.

SPEAKER_04:

Aaron Ross Powell, I mean he's come under fire recently because of you know his perspective of of cinema and theaters and online streaming services like Netflix, but I really do think that most of what he had to say about this comes from a place of he's just that passionate about the experience of going into a theater and seeing a movie. Right. And people will kind of run with that any way they want to, and there are certainly places for you know movies produced on Netflix, The Irishman was great if not too long.

SPEAKER_02:

Um I uh I don't think it was great.

SPEAKER_04:

You don't think it was great? Well anyways, popular movie featured a uh strange version of Robert Niro. Anyways, uh I think that was part of some of the controversy with Spielberg now with his comments on on uh Sure.

SPEAKER_02:

I mean, look, I'm biased. And with the Academy. I'm a Spielberg fan. And and he is probably one of my top three directors of all time. And you're you're right, there has been I mean, there's a ton of back and forth in in many, many ways. I mean, he has that perspective on what is considered like cinema and film and what should be uh qualified for like the Academy Awards and that was really the the impetus for a lot of it. Right. But then you also do have directors who have been very vocal, like Scorsese and Coppola about films like Marvel films and how that's not really cinema.

SPEAKER_05:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02:

And how that's just CGI and special effects. And and so with all of those directors who came up during the 60s and 70s, I mean, because they're all buddies, they're all friends, they all kind of came through at the same time. And I really understand where they're coming from. I mean, film is constantly evolving, and back in the day, people thought that when sound films came out that that that was a mistake.

SPEAKER_05:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02:

And that film should remain silent films. So so you have to keep evolving. Um, but all that aside, his viewpoints on cinema and what should qualify for whatever award award ceremonies has no bearing on him as a director in terms of like it doesn't, no.

SPEAKER_04:

I think like people will hop on those comments and somehow use whatever perspective they have to impugn his abilities as a director or to say that he's out of out of touch. And I I think not only is he one of the greatest directors and filmmakers that we've ever had, uh, I think attempts to somehow inform me that Steven Spielberg doesn't understand a a thing or a certain perspective about movies is part of a larger agenda.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, it's I mean, I you know, you want to be open-minded, you want to engage in debate, but I'm pretty dismissive of all that because again, he's Steven Spielberg, and and not that like I really adhere to like lists or awards to to qualify a person's talent and their place in in the compendium of of cinema. But he does have the most films as of right now on the AFI top 100. Um, I mean, he is a person that I think every everybody knows Steven Spielberg films. And among those six films that you want to take a guess? Which six films are on the list?

SPEAKER_04:

Uh sure. Uh Jurassic Park, E.T. Schindler's List. That's all I got. I got three.

SPEAKER_02:

You got two out of three.

SPEAKER_04:

Oh, really? Which one of those? Jurassic Park wasn't?

SPEAKER_02:

It's not. Okay.

SPEAKER_04:

Isn't that I was guessing on that one, but I thought um just because of the box office. I know we'll probably get into this at some point, but Star Wars, then ET, then Jurassic, as far as top in the box office.

SPEAKER_02:

And then they all got swept to the side with Avatar. Well, with Titanic and then Avatar.

SPEAKER_04:

We have strayed significantly from Well, not really.

SPEAKER_02:

We're talking about his credits. So so of the six films that are part of the and I just chose these because these probably are minus Jurassic Park, which I kind of feel like shouldn't be on the list.

SPEAKER_04:

I think it should be. I mean, it's it's easy now with just how far uh CG has come to forget just how groundbreaking Jurassic Park was. And it still holds up pretty well.

SPEAKER_02:

It really does.

SPEAKER_04:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02:

The other films, Jaws.

SPEAKER_04:

Oh, yeah, I've heard of that movie.

SPEAKER_02:

Your favorite Spielberg film.

SPEAKER_04:

My favorite Spielberg film.

SPEAKER_02:

I mean, you do. Close Encounters of the Food. There you go. There you go. So Jaws, Close Encounters, Raiders.

SPEAKER_04:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02:

E.T., Schindler's List, and I'm not gonna get it. Zaving Private Ryan.

SPEAKER_04:

Okay. I yeah, I've I've purged many moments of that movie from my mind entirely because that was just an amazing film to watch and also an incredibly difficult film to watch at times.

SPEAKER_02:

It's brutal.

SPEAKER_04:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02:

So I think I think we've covered Spielberg in terms of like we can't really inform on who this man is any more than has already been spent. I mean, he's he's amazing.

SPEAKER_04:

He's last uh last fun fact about saving Private Ryan. It's not that fun, actually.

SPEAKER_02:

Okay. Fun a fun fact about saving private Ryan.

SPEAKER_04:

One of my friends was so upset at a particular scene in the movie that he just stood up in the theater and started screaming at the at the uh screen.

SPEAKER_02:

Fun fact.

SPEAKER_04:

Yeah, that's a fun fact. And then uh I think he was promptly told to please sit down.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, I I understand how that film can bring out emotions, but uh but for the sake of everybody else there. So uh let's move on to the second individual who is probably most associated with this film, and also with Steven Spielberg, John Williams.

SPEAKER_04:

Oh yeah, I thought you're gonna say Peter Coyote.

SPEAKER_02:

I do love him, and we'll get to him. But uh Keys. So you're right, he won best original score for this film, and I mean I I actually wrote down far more credits for him than I did for Spielberg because like Spielberg, I mean, this guy is my childhood, and I I really adore all of his scores. Like, I can't think of a single one where I'm like, oh, that's not that great.

SPEAKER_04:

They're all really good.

SPEAKER_02:

They're all really good. And so going back again, I mean, it's probably not uh groundbreaking to say that he has had a long-standing relationship with Steven Spielberg that's lasted like 40 years at this point. So he composed on Jaws, he composed on all of the Star Wars films, um including The Last Jedi.

SPEAKER_04:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02:

I mean, I don't know to what degree that like other composers were brought in, but because he did compose that iconic score from the first three films to come out, they have continued to use that score throughout all the other films. So he's always gonna be credited in those films.

SPEAKER_04:

And he has been pretty much involved with all he was involved enough to tell us about it when we saw him at the Hollywood board.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, yeah, because he he loves Ray the character of Ray, and he was like, I'm the only one who's going to do her theme. Yeah. So I love how passionate he is about that particular franchise, even 40 years on. So that's awesome. Uh also composed on Close Encounters. One of my favorite scores of his Superman.

SPEAKER_04:

Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_02:

Superman's Amazing. And he composed on kind kind of in the same vein as with the Star Wars films, the Raiders films. So he composed the original score, and he is part of what do you call a four-part quad quad quadruple? I don't know. But anyway, um, so all of those. He also composed on other Spielberg films. So 1941, Empire of the Sun, uh, Jurassic Park, of course. Yeah. Real famous one. Schindler's Liz Saving Private Ryan. And then also a non-Spielberg film. This is Chris Columbus, Home Alone.

SPEAKER_04:

Yeah, that's that one I think is the most easily forgotten, but you can still kind of like get that John Williams sense from from the You kind of always know. Yeah, like it's like I'm watching a comedy with Joe Pesci and Michaela Culkin, but damn, this music is pretty good. Who did this?

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04:

You realize, oh shit, it was John Williams.

SPEAKER_02:

There's just like a John Williams-esque tone to everything that he does.

SPEAKER_04:

There there is, and I think there are some people that have claimed that a lot of his music is kind of derivative of itself or it's not as creative or original. But I would say that even though you can kind of detect similarities amongst the themes you'll hear in some of these songs, they're all so good. What is he supposed to do?

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, and I I just again I don't I don't know what this says about me, but I'm just like very dismissive of that kind of stuff because I'm like, we're talking about John Williams, we're talking about somebody that is elevated, and we'll we get into that with Dan.

SPEAKER_05:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02:

And and what Williams contributions to these huge franchises have done. Um so yeah, love love the guy. And I hope that uh next year we'll be able to go back to the Hollywood Bowl and be able to see him once again because he usually has his yearly uh visit and it's always always amazing. And anybody in the LA area or anyone who at some point when it's safe to do so wants to come visit LA, highly recommend getting tickets to see John Williams at the Hollywood Bowl, especially if you're a Star Wars fan.

SPEAKER_04:

Because he will come out on stage with a lightsaber and swing that lightsaber to the beat of the Imperial March with the rest of the crowd.

SPEAKER_02:

It's truly one of like my life highlights is getting to be part of that. It's a lot of fun, it's really fun. Okay. Director of cinematography on the film, uh, gentleman by the name of Alan DeVau. Okay. I hope I am pronouncing that correctly. Um, unfortunately, this gentleman he very recently passed. He just passed on April 15th.

SPEAKER_05:

Oh, wow.

SPEAKER_02:

Very recently. And he, though, has some amazing credits. It does also seem like he had a bit of a relationship with John Williams because he used him as a cinema. I actually know who John Williams he kind of, or um, I'm sorry, Spielberg. Oh, okay. Yeah, I'm not sure. Very my my apologies to everyone. Um Spielberg now he he's very loyal to to the other creatives that he works with, but he did work with DeVoo on the color purple and Empire of the Sun. And this gentleman also shot on Bugsy and Astronaut's Wife, among some of his other credits. Okay. So so that is him. And moving on to editor. So I don't know if you've ever noticed that like a lot of um editors, film editors in particular, are they women.

SPEAKER_04:

Usually I have not noticed that, no.

SPEAKER_02:

A lot a lot of really great films have been cut by women. And that was, you know, up until more recent decades, that was one of the places in cinema where women were able to be part of this industry because it has historically been very difficult for them to be in other positions like a director, producer, that sort of thing. But editor was kind of one of those things that that they were part of very early on and continue to do so for this film. The editor was Carol Littleton. Um, so she edited on Body Heat. Okay, The Big Chill, Places in the Heart, Accidental Tourist, and Beloved are some of her credits. Nice. So again, good pedigree here. So moving on to the people who are part of this film in front of the camera.

SPEAKER_05:

Okay.

SPEAKER_02:

Um this is okay, let me think here. We have done quite a few films already that focus on younger protagonists. Breakfast Club, our high schoolers, Back to the Future High Schoolers, Heathers High Schoolers.

SPEAKER_04:

Yeah, there's a lot of high schoolers.

SPEAKER_02:

A lot of high schoolers, uh Dream Dancing. She's she's uh 17 years old.

SPEAKER_04:

She's not in high school at the time of the movie, at least. She is Well, because it's summer.

SPEAKER_02:

But uh, this is I think the first of our films that focus on more adolescent uh protagonists. And of them, Henry Thomas, who plays Elliot in the movie. So there there's lots of really great stories about how he got cast in this film, and from multiple sources I've read that he so much impressed Spielberg with his audition that he gave him the gig on the spot.

SPEAKER_04:

Wow.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah. Because he was able to like emote and cry. He had to do a fairly emotional scene and he knocked it out of the park.

SPEAKER_04:

Yeah, I mean, that happens to be a pretty significant part of the movie, it turns out.

SPEAKER_02:

He's very emo I mean, it's great. It's it it it really is amazing to see his performance.

SPEAKER_04:

And to kind of express that level of emotion and feeling to what I assume if you're an actor on a set with this wonky, like alien costume, must be pretty difficult as as opposed to like working back and forth with, you know, just a normal-looking human being.

SPEAKER_02:

Well, I've also read that as much as he could, Spielberg tried to maintain the illusion of E.T. being real. I don't think he was actually telling them like this is a real alien, but he was trying to make sure that they weren't seeing all the bells and whistles that contributed to multiple models.

SPEAKER_04:

They had like one for like the the neck, the scenes where the neck was extending, uh one I think specifically for tumbles, like when you would fall over. And then yeah, so that's probably And I think that helped.

SPEAKER_02:

I think that helped for the children. He also shot in chronological order, and so that I think w was very much because of the children in the film, and to help them um gain that emotional trajectory of becoming attached to E.T. And so in that final scene when they're saying goodbye, they're they're really saying goodbye because it's the final scene of the film.

SPEAKER_04:

Yeah, which is unusual for a lot of productions.

SPEAKER_02:

Very unusual.

SPEAKER_04:

Um I yeah, I I think I think all of those little things that they did really put uh paid off. Absolutely. Because you you really you really feel the connection between Elliot and E.T. And you really feel that the characters have kind of like grown and developed over what really is only the span of a few days.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, and as far as like shooting in chronological order, as far as like like that is highly unusual for a film, but I will say that considering that like the bulk of the story is told in Elliot's home, probably made it a little bit easier.

SPEAKER_04:

Yeah, I mean, some of it's in Elliot's home, some of it's in a cornfield, some of it's in the Redwood Forest, and these are all like right next to each other. I jest.

SPEAKER_02:

Moving on uh to Elliot's older brother, Michael, who is played by Robert MacNalton.

SPEAKER_04:

And he's he's actually really good, as his older brother. I was shocked when I found about found out about the rest of his acting career.

SPEAKER_02:

Which wasn't extensive.

SPEAKER_04:

No, he he didn't really do a whole lot else, and I don't think I I'm not sure if he's actually like in acting still now. I think he did come back after like he just I think worked for the US Postal Service.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, he's he's I think moved on to other things in his life. I know I read that he you know has a family, has kids, and yeah, um, but he is amazing in this film. He's so good. I I really love seeing stories. I'm always I mean, we talked about this with Goonies. I guess those those guys were younger than that.

SPEAKER_04:

Yeah, yeah, I know I yeah.

SPEAKER_02:

Um but still at least Elliot and Gurdy definitely are younger than those kids.

SPEAKER_04:

I think so.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah. Um Gertie for sure. Gurdy for sure. I mean, Elliot, I think he's supposed to be about 11, and Goonies I think they're closer to like 12, 13. And he he does act a little bit younger. He does. So in any case, in any case. Um He's a kid. He's a kid, but I really love when I see a film come together where those relationships between the child actors feel so real.

SPEAKER_04:

Yeah, because uh in a lot of these uh situations, you have like an older sibling who's so cartoonishly kind of like giving them a hard time that you don't really feel like they're like just some caricature of a sibling. But in E.T., Michael, the older brother, he gives him a hard time, but he also you can tell that he that he loves Elliot because that's his like little brother. Especially with their dad not around, he's like looking out for him. Uh so I thought I mean it's no tragedy that he's like that after this he wasn't acting anymore. It's just surprising. It's just surprising because he was so good in it.

SPEAKER_02:

Right, right. Well, speaking of staying within the world of acting and cinema, moving on to Drew Barrymore. Okay. Yeah, I mean, she she plays Gertie, the youngest of the kids in the family. Yeah, what a narc. You really were calling her out when we were watching. I mean, she's a little kid. Uh yeah, but she, man, she really You really were just took offense to her.

SPEAKER_04:

Come on, Gurdy, get it together.

SPEAKER_02:

But uh, and this actually was not her first film role. Um, she had already Was she in Firestarter film? That came after the first time. Okay, yeah. She was in a film um called Altered States. That was, I believe, her her first film role.

SPEAKER_04:

Okay.

SPEAKER_02:

Uh in any case, so she I mean, she comes from an acting dynasty, honestly, the Barrymores.

SPEAKER_04:

She was in Dynasty?

SPEAKER_02:

Haha. But uh sorry. But uh Lionel Barrymore, Ethel Barrymore. I mean, she she comes from an amazing acting family, and she has been in the industry virtually her whole life. So E.T., Firestarter, which you mentioned, um, I'm just listing off some of her other credits. Uh, Irreconcilable Differences. Okay. Scream.

SPEAKER_04:

Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_02:

The Wedding Singer, probably one of my favorite things that she's in.

SPEAKER_04:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02:

Love that movie. Never Been Kissed. Charlie's Angels, the one from about 2000. So not the more recent one. Fifty Four States, another pairing up with Adam Sandler, and she recently was on the show Santa Clara Clor Clorita.

SPEAKER_04:

Yeah, yeah, the Netflix show.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah. And she I mean, this isn't really supposed to be a show about like actors' personal lives, but I gotta say that considering that she she's very vocal about the fact that like her upbringing was highly unusual for being a child child actor and being kind of exposed to very adult things at a very young age, and she went through a difficult period, and so it's really awesome to see that she came back uh healthy physically and mentally and emotionally and empowered and has gone on to do really great work.

SPEAKER_05:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02:

So so I'm I'm so happy to see that. Uh okay. So we we talked with Dan that honestly the the kids for sure it's kind of just like a duh statement to make, but they're they're the focus of the film. There are a couple adult actors that are featured. For the most part, the adults in this film are kind of these obscure figures, intentionally so.

SPEAKER_04:

Well, hell, I mean, one of the guys' names is just Keys. Right. Well, you see the credits, Keys. Keys.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04:

Which is fair enough because uh that's what you see of him for like 70% of the movie.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah. But the one adult who really has a involved role in this film is the mom of the three kids. Her name is Mary. She is played by D. Wallace. D. Wallace? So I I like to give props when like people have these like incredibly prolific acting resumes among them. I mean, there's quite a few people who have like 100 plus compared to those people, like I don't even mention them. This chick, 253 acting credits so far. I mean, that's incredible. So she has been working up to this very day, and among some of her credits, so she okay. Well, let me start in chronological order, the howling. So that was one of her films.

SPEAKER_04:

Yes, yeah, I remember her from that.

SPEAKER_02:

I remember her from Kujo. Yeah. Which is entirely too young to be watching that movie, but yeah, that movie was pretty messed up. And also with the kid from Who's the Boss?

unknown:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04:

Yeah. And that movie actually ended a little bit nicer than the book did, like a lot of uh Stephen King works.

SPEAKER_02:

That's what I've heard. Yeah. I know you're the Stephen King person, but uh okay, so Cujo, another kind of horror-ish critters.

SPEAKER_04:

I mean, that's not even ish. If anything, that's like sci-fi horror. Oh, okay. Yeah, okay. Because they're like little aliens. Not my thing.

SPEAKER_02:

Uh pivoting away from that genre, the new Lassie. Okay. She was on the show Sons and Daughters. Uh, she was, I guess, had a bit part, and I know I saw this film, but I'm I'm trying to recall her in it. She was in the 2007 version of Halloween.

SPEAKER_04:

Was that the uh uh Rob Zombie one? Probably. Okay.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, probably. Okay, so this credit is for you in particular.

SPEAKER_04:

Oh, was it the where she played uh Mildred Baker in an episode of Supernatural?

SPEAKER_02:

No, that's not it. The one that I have is her credit from The Office. Okay. Guess who she plays?

SPEAKER_04:

I don't know.

SPEAKER_02:

Ellen Bernard.

SPEAKER_04:

Ellen Bernard. Oh, Andy's uh I'm guessing his mom. Yeah, yeah. Must yeah.

SPEAKER_02:

I thought that that that's hilarious that she's on both of your favorite shows.

SPEAKER_04:

I yeah, I um recognize her her face, so I did a quick search myself and and confirmed that she, along with like almost everyone, has at one point been on an episode of Supernatural.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, that's awesome. And also, like I like I said, she's she's continued to work. Uh she was on she is I mean, I had to severely condense down the things that I was gonna like mention her for.

SPEAKER_04:

There's too many. I've been scrolling for 20 minutes and I'm still looking at things.

SPEAKER_02:

General Hospital, just add magic, some of her other credits. Yeah. Okay, so Keys, otherwise known as Peter Coyote.

SPEAKER_04:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02:

Uh I think I just love I I I don't even know how to express it. Like, he does such a great job in this film of you immediately assume that he is like a bad guy.

SPEAKER_04:

He goes from from like the ultimate menacing kind of shadow figure to like this could be Elliot as an adult. Right. You know, like this is like he's wanted to believe in something like this all his life, and here it is, and you know, he just he's he's happy that E.T. found Elliot first. Okay. You know, that the two of them found each other. He says that, right?

SPEAKER_02:

He he does say that. There is a little bit of a theory that perhaps he had come in contact with E.T. because there's like a moment when E.T. and Elliot, when they're undergoing like the medical treatment, and E.T. makes eye contact with keys. And there's kind of this like recognition.

SPEAKER_04:

But they didn't um show up there by accident, I would say. I mean, there's a lot in this movie that is you know, you can just kind of hypothesize or speculate on the other. Which I love. I love that. But with just the intro where, you know, they've already landed on Earth and suddenly you know Keys and his gang of I don't know what they all are.

SPEAKER_02:

Like faceless government men.

SPEAKER_04:

Yeah. When they show up, I don't like they obviously had been on the search for for something like this. So uh maybe there was some recognition, maybe they failed to catch any of them in the past. I don't I don't know.

SPEAKER_02:

I think that's interesting. I think it's totally fine too to have that be something that's kind of uh obtuse or obscured and and viewers can kind of come to their own conclusions about what that relationship maybe was.

SPEAKER_04:

Yeah, there's a lot in the movie where you can kind of like uh think about it, and without them or any character necessarily saying anything, just through the acting and through the movie, you just kind of come to these conclusions trying to figure out how all these pieces fit together.

SPEAKER_02:

Among some of his other credits, and we'll eventually do this film, The Legend of Billy Jean.

unknown:

Oh man.

SPEAKER_04:

Fair is fair. He's fair is fair.

SPEAKER_02:

He's great in that. Uh he also was in Sphere.

SPEAKER_04:

Oh yeah. A Michael Crichton book, which was a pretty good novel.

SPEAKER_02:

Okay.

SPEAKER_04:

Uh so-so movie.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, I remember seeing the movie. Like Sharon Stone, Dustin Hoffman, right?

SPEAKER_04:

Yeah, I think it's not gonna be controversial to say that Michael Crichton's most successful book translated to a movie is by a wide margin Jurassic Park.

SPEAKER_01:

I'd agree with that. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_04:

I don't think but he's had several others. You just don't really make that same association with Creighton.

SPEAKER_02:

Fair enough. Coyote was also in The History of Sex, Aaron Brockovich also in Brothers and Sisters. Oh no, Brothers and Sisters. Okay, so D. Wallace was in Sons and Daughters, and Peter Coyote was in Brothers and Sisters. Are they related at all? You would think. Uh and then also he had a stint um Law and Order LA. Okay. Okay, so the last person I'm gonna bring up before we move on, just because he he plays one of Mike's buddies, and he's gone on to have his own also very successful acting career. See Thomas Howell.

SPEAKER_04:

Yeah, he was he was really good. I think was he the one when um when they're like we have all these like shadow faceless government men coming after us. Let's all hop on our BMX bikes and take off, and he's like, all right.

SPEAKER_02:

I think so.

SPEAKER_04:

I think he was the one who They're just so immediately into it, like, yeah.

SPEAKER_02:

It's amazing. Yeah, love it. So I honestly was surprised to see that he currently has 217 acting credits. I and I don't mean that as a as a contest. As I it's not a contest, and I didn't mean to throw shade. I just had no idea that he had partaken in so many different projects. Yeah. Among them, so so I know him primarily as somebody from from AD's films. Uh he also was in the outsiders that came out shortly thereafter.

SPEAKER_04:

I think that's what I recognized him from.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, he's in that with um a ton of other great actors. He was also in Red Dawn.

unknown:

Yep.

SPEAKER_02:

So no. Maybe that's what I re yeah. Though like The Outsiders, Red Dawn. Like he It's kind of this rotation of the same actors in a lot of the those films. Uh so I don't know. Maybe at some point we'll have a very special episode where we discuss this film, but he was in Soul Man.

SPEAKER_04:

Nah.

SPEAKER_02:

Very uh problematic is an understatement. I don't I don't uh we're oh we're okay. Maybe, maybe we'll get to that place, maybe not. Uh Southland, Grim, uh so he's done a lot of television. So Girlfriend's Guide to Divorce, Ray Donovan. Oh, yeah. The Terror and Criminal Minds. Okay. So good on him. Okay. So as we do, I like to call out the IMDB synopsis to talk about if it we feel like it gives an accurate portrayal of what this film is in about a sentence or two.

SPEAKER_04:

It's tough. Whoever writes those, they got a tough job.

SPEAKER_02:

It's tough, but I mean sometimes they're better than others.

SPEAKER_04:

I just looked at it. I'm gonna let you read it, but I just looked at it myself to uh to read along. Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02:

Okay. A troubled child summons the courage to help a friendly alien escape Earth and return to his homeworld. It's not it's not necessarily wrong. It's not necessarily wrong.

SPEAKER_04:

Um But um yeah. There's a lot a lot it leaves out.

SPEAKER_02:

I kinda uh I I this sounds like more dramatic than I mean it to be, but I kinda take issue with the term troubled. Because when I think troubled, I think He's not really troubled.

SPEAKER_04:

Like his family's going through a hard time, but he's just he's just a normal kid going through a difficult time. He's not a troubled kid.

SPEAKER_02:

Exactly.

SPEAKER_04:

Like Elliot's a good kid.

SPEAKER_02:

He's a good kid.

SPEAKER_04:

They're all yeah, they're all like good kids, basically.

SPEAKER_02:

And yes, they're going through a tough time because their mom is separated. She seems to have sole custody of them right now. The dad isn't in the pitcher.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02:

Uh we talk about that a lot with Dan during our conversation with him and and the dynamics of the family. But so yeah, he's just a normal kid who is going through a tough period in his life, as is everybody else in his family, but he's not troubled.

SPEAKER_04:

A child experiencing difficult family issues, someone's now that sounds weird too.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, I feel like it's more accurate, but it's it's just an awkward way of putting it. In any case, it's fine. Um, it's uh the rest of it is pretty much on point. E.T. is a friendly alien. He need Yeah, okay.

SPEAKER_04:

So E.T. is a friendly alien, but we don't really know that right off the bat. No, we don't. We kind of get that sense because when we're introduced to his species, they're like just gardening, basically. Yeah, collecting plants. Yeah, collecting some plants, uh, just kind of walking around. Even though like the rabbit that sees them is like, yeah, this guy's probably fine. I'm not gonna run away. But then when Elliot lures him with the uh Reese's pieces, or when he first sees him in the cornfield for that matter, kind of terrifying.

SPEAKER_02:

Oh yeah. Uh yeah. Like E.T.

SPEAKER_04:

is got a set of chompers on him. Like he has like this set of very human-looking teeth. Does he? Yeah, but when you notice that when E.T. screams in the cornfield and his mouth is wide open, and you see this like row of molars, like like it's a human mouth, that with the scream and everything else is just uh part of what makes it just terrifying. And then he's like waddling up to Elliot for the uh for the candy. Yeah, like I don't know what's gonna happen right now.

SPEAKER_02:

That I thought was a really effective scene, and we talk about that again with uh Dan, I believe, where we say up until that point where he finally releases like his handful of Reese's pieces into Elliot's lap, you're not 100% sure that everything's gonna be okay.

SPEAKER_04:

It's not likely, but it's plausible that his neck was going to extend, his long fingers were going to grasp Elliot by the head, and he was gonna turn into like some face hugger thing. I'm just saying that's it's not off the board. It could have happened. And so when that didn't happen, I just let out the biggest sigh of relief. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02:

Okay. That's that is an interesting take. Yes, yes. Well, okay, so that kind of brings us into I I don't want to belabor the point here because we we talk about it again with Dan, but um that kind of parlays into like first memories of of watching the film. I mean, I I get into it later on, but yeah, everything that you just said uh strikes definitely a chord with me because I was terrified when I first saw E.T. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04:

It's not I I was kind of uh surprised by that, but it turns out it's not an uncommon reaction to that film.

SPEAKER_02:

No, I know several other people who just, you know, saw it a little bit too young, or maybe like I did, had parents who uh didn't didn't like really explain the dynamic of the story. I didn't really understand, and and I was just though like I said, those first uh 20 minutes-ish of the film have some scary moments. And so I I tapped out early. I just was like, done. This is all very scary.

SPEAKER_04:

What do you mean you tapped out?

SPEAKER_02:

I just would I literally wouldn't watch the film. Okay. I just sat on my dad's lap and turned away from the screen and would not watch the film.

SPEAKER_05:

Oh.

SPEAKER_02:

So, and he was quite upset with me, but I I refused. So that was my first experience. I just was too young.

SPEAKER_04:

Um Well, yeah, I I I do remember seeing it for the first time on a rainy night in Glendale, Arizona with my dad, and it was it was emotional and it was very intense. I don't remember necessarily being frightened by it, but this is also probably because I had already seen Alien and the Exorcist with my parents. Yeah. So relatively speaking, E.T. was was not that scary. It's probably why I had the face hugger nightmare with him. But even that was like, oh, it's fine. It'll all work out in the end. It'll all work out.

SPEAKER_02:

Um yeah, and I mean, again, not to be redundant in this, we we it's simply because we had a really great conversation with Dan and we brought up a lot of the points that normally we would make ahead of uh bringing in that segment. But watching it as we do before we cover it in the podcast, it was just I'll I'll leave it at this for me. It was just really a joyous experience. I know that sounds like kind of silly to put it that way, but it really was just I had a I kind of just had a smile on my face the entire time.

SPEAKER_04:

No, I mean we've we've watched now this is like the tenth film that is part of this group of films that we've all either like seen many times except for Bloodsport or had some familiarity with. Right. And it has been a different experience re-watching them now before before we record. And E.T. more than any other movie that we've watched is really a special film because it did um you know bring up a lot of different like feelings and emotions, and part of it was like looking back and thinking, like trying to reimagine, like man, I wonder like how my kid brain even processed some of this stuff because watching you know, watching some of it now is kind of difficult. I can only imagine what I was thinking back when I was a kid watching it, but it's it's uh uh just a really great experience.

SPEAKER_02:

Like when Michael finds them, and that I've just tough scene. Yeah, it's to me it wasn't scary, it was just incredibly sad, and I can't imagine as a child.

SPEAKER_04:

I mean it's interesting that not only is and so the the part you're referencing is after they actually successfully make the call to home He doesn't know it though. He doesn't know it, but um Elliot finds his way back home, they can't find E.T. Michael is able to find him, and he's basically like in a ditch. Yeah. And he's his body is completely grayed over, and there is a trash panda slash raccoon wandering around. And I'm I was wondering, like, did they actually get like a raccoon? That looked real. That looked completely real.

SPEAKER_02:

That did not look and I was like, that'd be a really strange thing to try to CGI like that that uh whatever they could have done at that point.

SPEAKER_04:

But he like shoes away the the raccoon and and you know eventually gets him back, but that kind of coincides with the faceless government men arriving.

SPEAKER_02:

Which perfect segue to montage.

SPEAKER_04:

There is a montage in this, right?

SPEAKER_02:

Well, okay, so we haven't discussed this. Okay. We we didn't talk about this while we were watching the movie.

SPEAKER_04:

We did not.

SPEAKER_02:

To me, the closest thing we have to a montage in this film is when all the government men start infiltrating their house and setting up shop.

SPEAKER_04:

They set it up fast. They're like creating this whole portable lab where they're like welding different storage containers together and putting all this stuff together. They have they have a lot of stuff.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, and you know, as far as montages go, like this is usually the case. They just need to move it along to get to like the next major beat of the story, which is it moves by.

SPEAKER_04:

I mean, the the movie again takes place over the matter over like the course of a few days.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04:

So I think they just needed to hurry that part of it up.

SPEAKER_02:

But and there was really no reason why they would have to belabor that. We don't need to see in real time them setting up in their home, and so they just kind of move that along fairly quickly. So to me, that's as close as I think we get as to any montage. Is that what you were thinking of?

SPEAKER_04:

Yeah, no. I mean, like, I'm pretty sure that neither a kid me nor adult me were that interested in the whole setup. It was more of just what is wrong with E.T. Yeah. Is he gonna be okay? Yeah. So let's get get me through whatever I need to go through to get to that part.

SPEAKER_02:

Re kind of related to what we're talking about. I think again, I mean, Spielberg, first of all, Spielberg is Spielberg, so he's great. And as we talk about with Dan, this is probably one of one of his biggest achievements. Honestly, in even in comparison to Jurassic Park or Schindler's list, just in terms of the way that it has stayed within our culture and has this like timeless quality to it and the emotional heartbeat of of the film.

SPEAKER_04:

Yeah. Just my opinion. I mean, it's it's I understand what you say, and it's difficult when you're comparing in any kind of capacity Schindler's List and E.T. Right. But there is an emotional component to E.T. that brings about this certain amount of of joy. And it's different. I mean, Schindler's List is is a masterpiece. Absolutely. It's something where if you're gonna ask me, Are you do you want to watch this movie again? It would be similar to Saving Private Ryan, where I can certainly acknowledge that there are great movies that cover you know extremely important subject matter, but I may not necessarily want to watch them over and over again. Yeah, but you you could, you can get a lot out of them, but um ET is something that I could probably watch over again and will.

SPEAKER_02:

Right. And and what I think he did particularly well, uh, what was really effective is the way that he and keys he's chief among them, so we kind of have already talked about it. How these people come in and there is this very natural assumption that they're they are strictly bad guys, that they're there to and and there is kind of an undercurrent that remains throughout the film.

SPEAKER_04:

It's likely that they were gonna dissect him.

SPEAKER_02:

But I do think that the intent was to keep him alive. I don't think that they wanted him to die. I mean, they they go through a pretty extensive scene of showing them desperately trying to save E.T.

SPEAKER_04:

I mean the difference is that E.T. is is lured into Elliot's room viaces, and Elliot immediately goes into like, oh, this is a Coca-Cola, this is a peanut, but you can't eat it because it's a fake peanut. He tried to like teach him about this world that he's now in versus uh Keys and his team, even if they had successfully captured him intact and E.T. was was safe and healthy, it just would have been he would have been in a lab being experimental. Of course. So he would have been alive only for the purpose of trying to learn more about him. True.

SPEAKER_02:

I do think though that Spielberg uh at least to some degree shows the audience that they're not entirely bad. And I think that that was kind of an important point to show that the children can kind of have trust in the adults.

SPEAKER_04:

You do get that from Keyes. I think again, he he says to Elliot that this is something he's wished for since he was Elliot's age. Yeah, to you know, he's wanted to believe in alien life. He's talking about how it's a miracle. It's a miracle that this has all happened. Um, I just it obviously would have gone much differently had they agree, totally, totally.

SPEAKER_02:

So so I just I I just thought that that was like a really interesting like pivot in in the film.

SPEAKER_04:

So okay actually, like my final comment on this will be contrast how we think it would have gone had Keys actually caught E.T. with how the aliens, how the the communication and back and forth between humanity and the aliens went with close encounters. Right, right. Where you know they really were trying to have like this dialogue and communication to the point where they actually invented a language using a pretty sweet synth program.

SPEAKER_02:

That's why you like that.

SPEAKER_04:

So that's all I yeah, that's all I was saying.

SPEAKER_02:

So should we just uh dive right in with our conversation with Daniel Strange?

SPEAKER_04:

Yeah, let's do it.

SPEAKER_02:

And so we are here with our great friend Daniel Strange, who is an artist, writer, commercial director, editor, as you just put it, Derek, a expert, yes, Spotify curator, and and does internet stuff.

SPEAKER_00:

Uh-huh. Internet.

SPEAKER_02:

And so welcome, Dan.

SPEAKER_00:

Hi, thank you. Thank you for having me here.

SPEAKER_02:

Yes, of course. And it goes, yeah, it goes without saying, but I'll say it, that he also is an ET fan.

SPEAKER_04:

Yeah, I mean everyone is, but yeah.

SPEAKER_02:

He I don't know if everybody well we'll get to that.

SPEAKER_00:

Oh. Is somebody on on this episode on this podcast not an E.T. fan?

SPEAKER_02:

Um, I would say maybe like converted.

SPEAKER_00:

Wow. Historically no. Historically no. Great. This is this is gonna make it that much more interesting.

SPEAKER_04:

But I think that there are like real reasons why, and I totally get them. Because thank you. Yeah, we'll we'll get into it more. I think we all know what they are. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah. So, okay. So, like I normally do, one of my favorite ways to kind of kick things off with our special guests is to ask about, and this will segue right into what we were just talking about. Um is to ask about your first memories, if you have them, if you can have them, of watching this film. First impressions.

SPEAKER_00:

Uh it's such a great question because it is it's such a vivid memory for me. Um, yeah. Um I I think okay, I I I hope I don't ramble and I hope that this story isn't too long. I sometimes am accused uh of adding too much detail. So if I if I go too far into minutia, please pull me back.

SPEAKER_03:

No, we love that and we're away. It's a five-hour podcast, so talk as much as you can.

SPEAKER_00:

Um a lot of my memories of E.T. uh the first time I saw E.T. are sort of filtered through my retroactive awareness that I was a budding director. Um and that this there were certain things I was really um intrigued by, or or that that really caught in my memory that I I wonder if they would have caught in the memory of someone who wasn't as detail-oriented in in um, you know, when you're a kid, you you just go see a movie, right? But for me, there was some stuff that uh I I recognize now looking back on it was the start of me becoming aware um of uh of all the decisions that go into making and releasing a movie. So I'll I'll start with one of those details that um my the my very first memory was seeing a commercial for E.T. And when I say when I say to you guys the ET logo, do you instantly know what that looks like?

unknown:

Yep.

SPEAKER_04:

The moon and Elliot on his bike.

SPEAKER_02:

Well, that's the Amblin Entertainment logo. Maybe that's what you're talking about, Deanna. I was thinking about the actual like type type uh typography.

SPEAKER_00:

Yes. Yes, yeah, yeah. It it's it's the it's sort of a raggedy handwritten font, right?

SPEAKER_05:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

As a little kid seeing that font, my first reaction was, oh, this is gonna be a scary movie, right? Or this is gonna be an ugly movie, or there's something raw and uh uh you know, just wrong about this. Plus, the the the title itself is just two letters, which is terrible. That's a terrible title for the movie. If you're a little kid, it's like, do you want to go see this movie called C F? Like, why would I want to, you know, what no?

SPEAKER_04:

So if it said CF, the crowdfunding.

SPEAKER_00:

Because with ET, you did the extraterrestrial. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03:

As the full title.

SPEAKER_00:

Those are also those are also ugly words to a little kid, right? It's it's terrestrial, extraterrestrial. It doesn't have a clear meaning because you you when you're a little kid, you you know, you need smaller words to to really grasp the meaning of them. As a kid, I did not know what extraterrestrial stood for. And so my instant verdict, you know, when I when I first saw the commercial was that's gonna be a bad movie. And okay, what else can I tell you? So I lived, I grew up in a very good thing.

SPEAKER_02:

Well, that's amazing to me that you remember the commercial part of it.

SPEAKER_00:

That is do you remember how old you were when the recall? I do remember how old I was, and I'm definitely not going to tell you.

unknown:

That's okay, that's okay, that's okay.

SPEAKER_00:

Not while we're being recorded. I was younger than 10.

SPEAKER_02:

Okay, okay, fair.

SPEAKER_00:

Uh so the first thing was I saw this commercial where the ET logo is written in this kind of ugly font. The words extraterrestrial had no meaning to me. And so as a as a very young pre-10-year-old, I was uh convinced from from those two uh little details that this was going to be a bad movie. And I grew up in a very small town. It was so small it didn't have its uh it didn't have a movie theater. If you wanted to see a movie, you had to drive over to Acton, I think. And so as a result, it was kind of a big deal in my family. Uh uh let me rephrase, let me start over. We grew up in the suburbs. That's kind of an important detail.

SPEAKER_05:

Yes, very much so.

SPEAKER_00:

Right? So uh if we wanted to go see a movie, it was kind of a big deal because we all had to drive for a while to get there. And being suburban kids, you know, it's not like we were, it's not like my family had tons of discretionary funds to just like let's go see a movie every single time a movie comes out. It kind of had to be a thing. So a movie that was worth seeing, right? And um one day my mother announced that we were gonna go see a movie. And so, you know, we get in the car and what movie are we gonna see, mom? And the answer was E.T. And I remember being very upset. Yeah. You know, and I I think I let her know in no uncertain terms that this was going to be a bad movie. And uh it turns out that my mother was right, that it was a movie worth seeing. And of course, I uh like all children that are in that age group, you know, I I I lost myself in the movie, and I it it the relationship between Elliot and E.T. for me was 100%, you know, there was no, I didn't um it was 100% identification, right? Because I was around that age, I was maybe a little bit younger than Elliot. But um every every everything that that kid, um, I don't want to say everything. Let me back up because he's uh the the father has left, which was not the case with my family. But um a lot of how that kid relates to the world was, you know, it made sense, which is one of the things that I love about E.T. is that it is a movie for children. It's also a movie for adults, which is um it's you know, quite that's a pretty impressive trick to pull off to have it be both at the same time. But if you're a child, that movie is speaking your language to you. Um it's very centered on how children process the world. Like like the scene where Elliot first gets E.T. in his in his room and he starts like explaining the world to him, right?

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, like what's the peanut but you can be because it's yeah, I mean it's so like over sensory overload for poor E.T., but it's it's such an endearing scene.

SPEAKER_00:

And it makes sense to Elliot that like this is how I well, I have to explain the world to him, so I'm just gonna start with everything that I see right here, right? You know, and the movie understands that the movie understands the way children think. So that's how you get a scene like that, where of course this is what Elliot would do, because this is what I would do if you know, if I'm a kid and I had an alien, I'd start showing him all my stuff. So um it was uh it was really easy for me to just really relate to it. Um, and uh, you know, that was that's my earliest memory of seeing the movie.

SPEAKER_02:

I love that you bring up so many good points. I mean, I I had a slightly different experience, and that's a this isn't about me, but I will say that um I want to hear your version. Well, the things that I I I think I was just maybe a little bit too young um to really understand what was happening, and I was I was a f it sounds weird to say, but I guess I was a bit of a frightful child, um and you know, was unnerved easily. And so the things like the government guys going to try to track down E.T. in the very beginning in the forest, I remember that.

SPEAKER_04:

You mean keys?

SPEAKER_02:

Keys. Um Mr. Peter Coyote and so that I remember, and then when Elliot, you know, is is waiting outside to try to have another interaction, and he's like going through their random cornfield in in their backyard, and um and and that I remember yeah uh being terrified by. Yeah. So yeah, those are my first memories of of the film. And and I gotta say, like now, you know, like we do with with all of our films, we re-watch it before we do the podcast. And so we were just watching it last night, and and even though probably 95% of me is like, oh, he's cute. I I you know, as an adult, you know, there's nothing scary about ET, but I still kind of hold on to especially the neck extension. Neck extension still kind of weirds me out a little bit, yeah. Um, and and the fingers kind of weird me out a little bit.

SPEAKER_03:

So Well first part of the movie, all you really see of of these aliens are the fingers curling around.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, and one thing that we brought up, which I'd like to know your point of view on this, is I made a comment that up until the point where E.T. So they're in they're in the backyard, and E.T. comes out of the shed and lays the Reese's pieces that Elliot had laid out for him earlier onto his lap. I sense that in that moment it was intentionally ambiguous, the way that E.T. was like walking over to Elliot, where up until the point where he lays down the Reese's pieces, you don't actually quite know if E.T. is going to be completely harmless.

SPEAKER_00:

Right. Yeah, I agree. I think that the movie very much is using the language of horror films intentionally in the beginning. And like Derek says, with the hands, you see the fingers wrapping around stuff. Um, but it's it's also interesting because the movie starts from E.T.'s point of view. So you you sort of you have a little bit of um uh uh I guess empathy, right, for this guy who's who's stranded, who's lost. And you want to assume that he's gonna be okay, uh that he's not gonna be uh violent, that he's not going to eat Elliot. Although now that I think about it, that would make an absolutely amazing short film. Um uh the so but the but One of the things that the movie does narratively that I I really like is that it it tells both of their stories, you know, um simil uh sometimes simultaneously, but uh kind of back and forth. So you start with E.T. and you're you're sort of tracking what he's doing, but also you're you you track what Elliot is going through. And when it's you know, all that stuff where they're they're meeting for the first time is definitely from Elliot's point of view, which is where uh that that sh when that shift happens, I think that that's where you get that little bit of ambiguity that you're talking about.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, and I think that going back to actually another one of your earlier points in terms of like uh horror in and some of the ways that Spielberg uses that is an interesting contrast to and I, you know, I'm I want to stay focused on E.T. here, but he was working on poltergeist.

SPEAKER_04:

I'm not even lying when I say poltergeist comes up in some way on every episode of our podcast.

SPEAKER_02:

Yes, it does. It does. Usually it's us slamming the the reboot, which we both have not watched.

SPEAKER_04:

But I saw, I mean, I felt like the neighborhood in ET is kind of like this weird combination of the neighborhood from poltergeist, if it was the setting for close encounters of the third kind.

SPEAKER_00:

Well, it's I'm I'm glad you brought all that up because one of the uh just to not to freak you guys out, but I made a whole list of notes of things to talk about here. And one of the one of the notes yes, one of the notes I made was it's suburbs, um, which is suburban Spielberg, is Close Encounters, E.T., Poltergeist, Gremlin, and Goonies. And some of those he was just an EP on. But um I I think that there was this period from like 1976 to 1982, where Spielberg was really the ultimate, and I think it's reflected in the fact that his movies keep coming up in your 80s podcast, where he was nobody was speaking the language of mainstream mainstream cinema better than Steven Spielberg, and specifically with those movies, um he's he's super suburb focused. And to me, that's his best work. It's his most um it's his most compassionate work, um, his most generous work because he's he's the humanity is so strong in all those movies, starting with um in Jaws when after the Kittner boy is dead and Roy Scheider is so upset, and then he catches his son um mimicking him, you know. Like those moments are uh start you you see moments like that in every Spielberg movie during that period, like where every character gets a little moment to be themselves. And in E.T., the moment is when the uh the moment for the mother is when she's worried about Elliot, and but she's got her her cat costume on and she's got her little her wand and she starts hitting the candles, you know. You get these these moments that are so human and so generous uh in their spirit of reflecting uh America America back to Americans, if if I can get really pretentious. You know, I think that the reason these movies were so impactful that they touched so many people was that we we all saw so much of ourselves in them.

SPEAKER_02:

I I think that was beautifully stated. And I know seriously, I I and I agree with every single point you made. Um definitely agree. And and perhaps this I I'm gonna I'm trying to refrain a little bit because I want to uh save some of what I want to say for for the segment uh that I know you're gonna bring or part of the segment that you're gonna bring up a little bit later on, as far as like what this movie means to you. Um in particular terms. Uh but I I love this time period of Spielberg work for all the reasons that you listed. When you mentioned the scene in Jaws where um Brody's sitting at the table with his son and the it is so heartwarming. It it's amazing because like there's so many great memorable scenes in that film, but that one kind of almost takes my breath away with how heartwarming and endearing it is. And you're right, like that show of humanity and the relatability.

SPEAKER_04:

The the way that the humanity and the relatability comes out of those movies for me is kind of weird. And it it's it's ET and it's also uh, I guess, poltergeist a little bit, and also um what am I thinking? Close encounters, where their homes look like real homes that people live in. Where they're kind of cluttered, but they're cluttered with things where you're seeing looking at it thinking, yeah, I can I can totally see like there's like dishes everywhere. They just like it just looks like it's so relatable and something real that you could imagine. Which is great because it kind of grounds you in some like reality given how unrealistic so many other aspects of the movies are.

SPEAKER_00:

Absolutely. I you know, you you bring up a point that I wanted to talk about as well. There's a there's a scene in the beginning uh when they're all the the kids are all playing Dungeons and Dragons. In the background, I I just noticed this because I was like, that's it's it perfectly sums up what you said, Derek. There's the paper towel dispenser. Did you guys see this? The paper towel dispenser is it's like it's ripped off at the bottom. Where when you're you know, you you ever we all know this. When you when you go to rip the paper towel from the paper towel dispenser, sometimes the bottom gets a little raggedy.

SPEAKER_01:

Uh-huh. And from seeing using detail.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, it's a great detail. It's a great detail. And from being on sets, I can tell you it is really rare to find production designers good enough, or you know, even speaking as a director, directors good enough to say that's a detail that we need to sell that that this is a lived-in house and not like um, you know, because it'd be it it would be too easy to just make that a perfect um pull instead of a raggedy edge. But the raggedy edge is what tells you that the people actually live there. And to to piggyback on it a little bit, not only is the production design a hundred percent on point, but there's this really interesting sort of tension between how I don't want to say slobby or messy, but lived in the production design is, and how mythic the cinematography is. Because there's so much haze and atmosphere use in every shot, and like everything looks like it's this it's the mythical version of the suburbs, which is sort of the the magic of of Spielberg during this era.

SPEAKER_02:

And I think that kind of bringing it all together, another aspect of this like relatability and the way that this world is drawn is I as an adult am so impressed, I I I guess I would say, by the candor with which Spielberg depicts depicts a a single parent home. Which I feel was, I mean, of course, like up through eighty-two when the film came out, of course there were other stories, but I feel like they depicted it in such a natural way of, you know, obviously she loves her kids, but there's this frustration of, you know, every every time she tries to get Gertie at the house, it's like this rush, and like, come on, we're gonna be late, and you know, Gertie. And uh and uh, you know, just like little things too, which we kept saying this to to each other as we were watching, we're like, oh, this would never happen nowadays. But like the fact that she leaves Gertie alone to go get Elliot at school, which like that had to happen.

SPEAKER_04:

Or not at the uh at the beginning when Elliot runs back in because he he saw ET in the backyard and his older brother and all of their friends grab a bunch of knives and run out. Yeah, and she's like, Don't do that. Oh, whatever. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02:

I I just I I found it yeah, yeah, exactly. The the 80s. I mean, we we were saying that quite a bit, but um, you know, and then in addition, when Elliot is is faking, being sick, so he can stay home, and she's like, Okay, you cool if I go to work? You know, and and I just and the thing is is that I I'm fine with that. Like, I don't necessarily think that that's um I I don't want to get too off track here and get into like helicopter parenting and the whole deal, but that doesn't bother me, even like as is it being a result of its generation and that would not happen today. And if I think I think at some point they I think Elliot's supposed to be maybe what 11?

SPEAKER_04:

Yeah, I mean the movie wouldn't have happened otherwise because he wouldn't have gone in the backyard by himself. If he had, he would have immediately told his mom and shown her a picture on his cell phone, this is what I saw, and then she would just immediately call 911 and that's it.

SPEAKER_00:

Well, I'm with you, Anna. It it uh it didn't bother me either. Um my wife clocked it, and I I noticed her clock, she said something about it, and it wasn't until she said it that I thought, oh yeah, and so I was actually a little bit more taken aback by her mentioning it than by it happening because that's how I remember, you know? Yeah, you they you're left to your own devices, you get into some mischief, and nine times out of ten it works out.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, exactly. And I think that it um you know, you were speaking earlier about this movie being a movie for for kids, also for adults, but I think that you give a lot more respect to your adolescent characters, and by extension, just like real kids, when when you trust them enough that I mean, maybe you don't let Gertie, she was like what, maybe six, six, seven? I don't know, I don't know exactly how she was supposed to be. I I can't think of consciousness I would probably leave a seven-year-old alone. But but when you you know, it it's kind of like that whole when in the 80s and nobody had cell phones on them all the time. Like basically as a kid, you were like, okay, go out and play be home by the time it's dark.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah. And or specifically, like she says, you know, for Halloween, uh one hour after dark, which I remember back. I was like, wow, hey, all right.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, cool mom.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02:

And but like you said, nine times out of ten, it's fine. It is. And especially and I oh sorry, please continue. No, no, no, please go ahead.

SPEAKER_00:

I was just gonna say, especially in the suburbs, which I I I personally keep coming back to. Yeah, you know, that this was a this is a ET is a movie that can only happen in the suburbs. And and some of Spielberg's best work during this period happened in the suburbs. And in the suburbs, I think there's less of a threat that like something awful is gonna happen to you. Because in theory, we're we're all good people and we're all looking out for each other. It's a little bit safer of an environment to let uh let a six-year-old go hang out up on the hill by herself in.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, that's that is one thing, you know, that's another excellent point because it's been I'll admit it's been a while since I've lived in like a suburban area. It's been a long time.

SPEAKER_05:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02:

So I can't really uh pretend to know what and and of course, like it's you could get you could go down a real rabbit hole in terms of like different areas of the United States, different areas of the world. But I I do wonder, you know, you said like you look out for each other, that sort of thing, like what what current suburban life is like, because I think that there is a kind of general sense that people are much more reserved and and kind of like they'll look after their own, but there's not necessarily that neighborly aspect to it anymore. I mean, like I do remember as a kid block parties. And I don't I don't know, do those happen anymore?

SPEAKER_04:

Like I mean, not currently, no.

SPEAKER_02:

Right. Right.

SPEAKER_00:

Or they should let me say this because one of the things that I found really interesting, and one of the reasons I keep bringing up suburbs. One of the things I found interesting on this rewatch is Sarah and I moved to the suburbs, as you know, recently, and there's been this period of reacquainting myself sort of with what suburban life is like compared to what I remember it like as a child. And there's a lot of there's still a lot of overlap. Um, you know, there's still the idea that like when the sprinklers come on, you you you sort of you take a moment to walk out and look at the sprinklers on the lawn and listen to the sound, and you see your neighbors and you wave to them and you strike a conversation if if you know if it's appropriate. And uh so I I don't know. I don't know if it's I'm still re I'm still dipping my toes back in. So I I don't know. I I can't say that I'm the expert right now, but I I do think there's I I so far I've been pleasantly surprised to see there's more of that sort of feeling than I expected there to be in in 2020.

SPEAKER_02:

I like that. Yeah, I I I like hearing that. And actually what was kind of funny about uh as you were talking, one thing that came to mind to bring up poltergeist again, um, is that he here's something I read. I read that um okay, so so you know, full disclosure, Spielberg, he's he's not accredited as a director, he's a producer on poltergeist, though I've heard rumors that he did a lot of directing on the film. Um no, no insult, I hope, to Toby Hooper. But um in any case, that you know he was working on the films at the same time, they came out the same year, and that actually it was intentional that there was kind of a symbiotic relationship between the two in terms of E.T. being kind of this representation of a suburban dream and poltergeist being the representation of a suburban nightmare.

SPEAKER_03:

Oh, that's interesting.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, I th I thought that was so interesting. That being said, in terms of like neighbors and neighborliness, you don't really see neighbors at all in ET or anything like that. I mean, and and again, that's intentional. I mean, that's that I don't I don't think that there's anything like contradictory there because it's Dan, you brought it up earlier to again this idea of like it being a movie for kids and that sort of thing. It was completely intentional, but really outside of the mom and to a very lesser extent keys, the adults really aren't it's shot from a kid's point of view, it's shot from a kid's height, the adults are kind of obscured. Yeah, so that's all intentional.

SPEAKER_00:

Absolutely, especially especially in the um the the part that really made me laugh was the classroom sequence where I was like, Oh, you know, this is this is peanuts. This is um Yes, you know, he the you can a lot of times I say this about the work of Brian De Palma, but you know, it with with Spielberg in that scene, I felt it as well. A lot of times I feel like you can hear the director laughing when they're having fun, you know. So in your mind, when you when you watch a movie, you can sort of get that they thought this was a really hilarious joke. And with um with that scene, I felt like Spielberg is aware that he's doing um a peanuts special here, where it's all but you know, the teacher going.

SPEAKER_04:

Well, when the teacher started talking about like going through this process for the frog dissection, and he mentions like after you open up the frog, you'll see it's like look here for the heart, and then you'll see the heart beating. I was like, wait, what?

SPEAKER_03:

That hold up.

SPEAKER_02:

That was a little, I will say that of all the things that I was like, oh, it doesn't bother to I I don't know. I okay, look, I went to a school where like dissection just wasn't part of the the curriculum. Um so I never had that that what seems to be almost a universal school experience.

SPEAKER_04:

I mean I I did do that, but we certainly didn't have to like throw chloroform-filled cotton balls into a jar with the frog to put it to sleep so that we couldn't. They were already dead at that time. Yeah, the ones the that we worked on were already dead. They were like already preserved and did you do uh dissection, Dan?

SPEAKER_00:

Uh thank you for asking. This is actually something that has always bothered me. I never got to do a dissection, I would have been all about it. I would have been asked about it.

SPEAKER_02:

I know I was like, something that you feel like you missed out.

SPEAKER_00:

I did. I did.

SPEAKER_02:

I mean, I I understand from like a scientific and and learning aspect, like it could have been something useful. I honestly don't know why that uh my school never had anything like that. But the one thing that I will say is that Elliot did seem kind of young to be doing that like that. I know that if that happened, it would have been a strictly high school thing.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah, I I did it in high school.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah. That seems to be what I see from like culture and and that kind of thing is that like in other movies, it's always a high school thing, it's never an elementary school thing.

SPEAKER_04:

But I doubt I even heard the teacher saying that when I was a kid watching it because when I was a kid, the teacher probably did sound like a peanuts teacher to me.

SPEAKER_05:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04:

And I was a hundred percent focused on Elliot because at that point you know just how deep the connection is between Elliot and E.T., and you're kind of waiting to see what happens.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah. Yeah. Well, I I suspect, you know, if I've if I'm putting my director hat on it, I suspect that, yeah, probably that's not something that elementary school kids did, but I'm uh this is just a guess, a supposition on my part that Spielberg and Melissa Matheson were like, we need a sequence here, and maybe it isn't totally accurate that elementary school kids would do this, but if we have them dissecting frogs, we get to do X, Y, and Z.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah, it gets you to the point where Elliot where Elliot is like freeing all of them. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

So but also having his first kiss.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04:

Dramatic.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04:

I love how the other kid just kind of like slides under so that he can step on him to make up the height difference.

SPEAKER_00:

Again, very much a kind of like a cartoon section of the, you know, there uh when we were watching it recently, I said to Sarah, you know, you can it feels to me like Spielberg is really indulging his his love of animation here because everything in that sequence is is a is an extra sort of level of heightened reality almost to to to the point of becoming a cartoon.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

You know, the the the kids the kid slides it like you said, the there's no logical reason why that kid should get down on his hands and knees at that exact time. No. But he does. And then the shot where as they're leading Elliot away where Erica Alaniak's shoes, she turns her feet just a little bit. It's a very it's a you know, it's a very stylized sort of sequence, but it's it's it's fun.

SPEAKER_04:

I thought E.T. walking around the house in a big flannel was fun. Love that.

SPEAKER_02:

That just like I I'm just smiling the entire time I'm watching him in that getup. Um, okay, so I want to pivot a little bit because this is something that I definitely wanted to chat about with you, Dan. John Williams.

SPEAKER_00:

Yes. Let's talk about John Williams forever.

SPEAKER_02:

Let's talk about him forever.

SPEAKER_00:

Do you want to talk about him first or should I?

SPEAKER_02:

Well, I have a question for you relating to and and then you can take it wherever you want. Um here's my question. As I was as we were watching this last night, you know, of course, this is a score, a beautiful score, Academy Award-winning score. And I was thinking, you know, these two have a lot of history. He's pretty much his go-to guy on everything he does. And at the same time, you know, we we recognize Spielberg as being one of the greatest directors. Uh not that this necessarily indicates anything, but like he has the most uh films right now in the AFI top 100. He has like six of his films. But also John Williams is the iconic composer. I mean, we're talking Star Wars, Indiana Jones, Superman, Jurassic Park, Harry Potter, Harry Potter in addition to E.T. So given that and the fact that they have this like really close relationship, who do you think has benefited the other more? Do you think that Steven Spielberg film films would be considered these iconic Steven Spielberg films without the score to support it? Or do you think that John Williams was so inspired by the level of creativity and and cinematic what have you, that it brought out the side to him that otherwise he maybe wouldn't have had as a musical artist?

SPEAKER_00:

First of all, can I take a moment to appreciate how good of a question that is? Well, I think you um you it's funny that you asked this question because you you're uh I think it's clear what you think, and I'm going to tell you what I think, and I have a feeling that we're both on in the same boat.

SPEAKER_04:

Um I have a pretty strong feeling about this as well.

SPEAKER_00:

Um this is something I have devoted a lot of thought to. And my wife will tell you because I talk to her about it a lot. I've I've been on a John Williams kick this last month. I I put together a Spotify playlist of my favorite John Williams cues. Um I there is not even a doubt in my mind. So when I answer your question, I can tell you with full previous consideration and not just for the moment, because this is something, this is a conclusion I've come to independent of you asking the question at this moment. There isn't even a doubt in my mind that Spielberg and Lucas are the luckiest motherfuckers on the face of the earth.

unknown:

Yes.

SPEAKER_00:

Because John Williams, if I'm gonna back up a bit. Star Wars is not Star Wars without John Williams, it's just a movie. And the the the argument I would make, that the example I would give is when Luke Skywalker goes out and looks at the setting suns, the two suns, the sunset. Right.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

That music cue does all of the heavy lifting. It does every single bit of telling you that he's yearning, that he wants to be free, that he's he wants to be he wants to be where the people are, he wants to to something, he wants to hear them dancing, strolling along down the avenue. Uh you know, what he wants to be part of part of that world.

SPEAKER_04:

Great example.

SPEAKER_00:

Thank you.

SPEAKER_04:

I think um just looking at the movie that we're talking about with E.T., Williams' score was so strong that it literally changed the ending of the movie because Spielberg looked at the that final scene with Elliot and E.T. with Williams score at the end there, and even though it was intentional, it was initially going to move beyond that to where they go back to the home and you see Elliot playing Dungeons and Dragons with uh Mike and his friends, and with some kind of device on the roof so that you could see that he's still in contact with them. And the music was so strong, he just said, No, this is the end. Yeah. So I would I would agree with Dan that that those guys are the luckiest guys because his music has lifted all of those movies to become something more than they would have been otherwise.

SPEAKER_00:

Not only that, and by the way, I didn't know that, and uh, I'm so glad to have uh had this conversation, so I learned that bit. But I remember last time I was watching it, watching that scene, I was like, this score, again, is doing everything in this moment. It's it's taking this goodbye moment, and it's telling us how the characters are feeling about it and why, you know, and all the lessons that we've learned, all the lessons, the big lesson I think that Elliot kind of learns in the movie is um empathy, right? He he learns um, he starts off being uh he he says the thing that hurts his mom's feelings, and then you know, he gets chastised for it by his brother. Well, when are you gonna learn to you know think about other people's feelings? And then, you know, in in grand Spielberg tradition, uh just like Brody's fear of of going swimming is manifested in this physical shark. You know, Elliot's um flaw is manifested in this physical, you know, he forms an literally a bond of feelings with another creature. And so by the end, when when they're having that moment where they're saying goodbye, Elliot, even in the on the cusp of it, you know, his his he says stay, but he he still knows this is the right thing to happen. And the music is telling you all that. It's telling you that he's he's reached this point where like he's able to see that this goodbye is the is the correct thing for ET. And it's you know, John Williams, what can you say? The guy's the greatest.

SPEAKER_04:

I feel like uh totally agree. This conversation, this particular part of our conversation is getting us that much closer to the part of this that I desperately want to talk about, which is which is the prompt that you gave us before before we set up this call.

SPEAKER_01:

So is well should be should we just go there?

SPEAKER_00:

I think we should.

SPEAKER_02:

Okay, all right.

SPEAKER_00:

I'd love to. Can I I have a pitch for how we can for how we tackle this?

SPEAKER_02:

Okay, okay, great.

SPEAKER_00:

I think we should do a round robin, just the initial what each of our words were, and then we can go one by one with each person, Todd, because my theory is a truly great movie, and I think we can probably agree that the uh that E.T. falls into this category. A truly great movie can has enough depth that it can be about more than one thing, and and and not just sort of on a surface level, but deep down, like it's about this. I think it's about this, and here's all the things I can talk about that that prove it's about that, but also it can be about this and still it can be about this other thing and still have all those other, you know. If it if if it's a great movie, it'll have enough enough depth to support uh uh a multitude of interpretations.

SPEAKER_02:

Absolutely, yeah, yeah, 100%. I okay, so I'm totally on board with your suggestion. Here's here's what I say. Like, can we go from like Derek to me to you, and then once you say your word, you could be the first one to elaborate, and then we'll work our way backwards.

SPEAKER_03:

I love it.

SPEAKER_02:

Okay, okay, great, great. Okay, so Derek.

SPEAKER_03:

My word is soulful.

SPEAKER_02:

Okay, my word is nostalgia.

SPEAKER_00:

Ooh, I that's very close to mine. My word is childhood.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

All right, okay, so I'll I guess I'll dive in first. Um, to me, um I sort of touched on this earlier with Elliot's first kiss. To me, ET is a microcosm of the lessons that you learn in childhood, all sort of packed into one story. Um, and not just the lessons you learn, but the experiences that you have. Um, because it kind of touches on a whole number of things. We you get Elliot's first kiss, you get Halloween, you get dealing with your siblings if you've got siblings, you've got dealing with your parents if you if you if you've got parents, and but sort of most importantly, um, I think childhood, one thing that we all experience in childhood is is that that first understanding of loss, whether your best friend moves away or your pet dies, or uh, you know, a relative dies. That childhood is that you have that moment in childhood where you first sort of come to grips with the idea that, oh, this person is not gonna come back. That's not gonna happen. So um, you know, obviously there's a lot of autobiographical elements in it from Mr. Spielberg, and I I I can't help but feel that it was his sort of um his sort of meditation on what childhood is. The end.

SPEAKER_02:

So I'm just I'm so entranced. I'm just like, uh huh, uh huh. No, I I love that. And I and again, beautifully said. And in yes, very I I think like really similar. similar to the way that I I saw the film and see the film. I think for me I I not not to take too many steps back, but you know, in terms of like why Derek and I even started this podcast and why we're choosing the films that we are from the eighties is deeply rooted in what what our childhoods were and our memories of them as it relates to film. And it's interesting to me because I didn't I honestly didn't think this before I watched it last night. I was it it only kind of came to mind with this most recent screening of all the little things that just made me smile and recollect about this time in my life when I was a kid just you know things like uh well another thing that scared me that was all throughout the film was the Raggedy Andals. I don't know. I had one and it terrified me. I had many nightmares about it but it it made me laugh to see it all throughout the film. Elliot you know when you were talking earlier about how he's pointing out all these different things that were just like literally within his his eyes you know he brings up the the Star Wars figures. Oh yeah and you know and I'm smiling because he's talking about Bub Bubba Fett and I'm like thinking to myself oh my goodness how much those figurines would be worth nowadays. And so I'm I'm laughing about that. You know when they go out for Halloween and I I mean I love this moment when when ET sees Yoda and there's this like recognition of of Yoda and so on so many levels it makes me laugh and and I just you know I it was it it's it was made in A B2. It's a it's a movie that is of its era but in seeing it oh my goodness almost 40 years later oof it right sorry to bring bring bring the level down of it.

SPEAKER_00:

I would say it's possible considering we're all in our twenties.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah to totally I know it's bizarre it it just brings a smile to my face and and I don't want to get too heavy with it but I I I would think that like for anybody not not everything about childhood is typically joyful and and brings back good memories. But this is something that it it just made me so happy watching it. And and remembering something that there's so there's so much innocence about it and and sincerity and and earnestness. And and even the the parts of it that are like hard, you know, where where the mom Mary is is kind of struggling to like keep it all together with three kids on her own. And yeah in Mexico and learning that her her estrang is with some other chick and you know so even those parts they're they're not easy to digest necessarily but um it just brings me back to this time and and I love it for that. You know I I really did have a new appreciation for it watching it last night and kind of seeing it through that lens. So that's my answer.

SPEAKER_00:

I love it. That's wonderful.

SPEAKER_04:

And so my word was Mr Derek sorry Yeah uh my word was soulful because I think I I got watching it now a long time I'll just say after the first time I saw it which I I still remember seeing it on a rainy night in Glendale Arizona with my dad and being kind of kind of scared during some parts but for the most part it it was like a fun experience. And watching it now I think I just got a lot more of the of the depth of the different feelings that just come out of every facet of the movie. I mean from just feeling kind of the terror that E.T. has when he's being chased at the beginning and this desperation to somehow find some safety to this like wonder and not having any idea what this thing is but kind of trying to help it when E.T. first encounters uh E.T.

SPEAKER_02:

E.T. encounters Elliot.

SPEAKER_04:

Oh they encounter each other um to just like these scenes of profound sadness when when E.T. actually makes the call and Mike finds him like in this ditch gray and you know that E.T. is dying and of course when E.T. does die and then just like overwhelming joy when you see the flower come back to life and you know what that means and you know that like I I I don't know. Did was it because like his like the phone call worked and he knows that his people were coming for him. I don't know. I just know like these feelings and emotions have just washed over me at so many parts of the movie and it's something that I don't know if I if I felt all this when I watched it as a kid but I still took a lot out of it as a kid. It still was like a really great experience watching it. But watching it now I think there was just I don't I don't know if some of it was like the nostalgia factor but it was just um it's it's a great movie. I don't know how well it holds up for somebody watching it now for the first time that might not be like some of these things that we've talked about as far as like the kids being left at home or just some things that were kind of unique to the 80s would they distract people or take them out of the movie or would they still like get the same like feelings and emotions out of it that I did I I don't I don't know. Like I think for the most part the effects hold up except for some of the scenes of them flying over the neighborhood are a little wonky but but even that is still like a lot of fun. So that's why like I just felt so many different things.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah it just was a kind of a soulful type of experience to watch it.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah yep Spielberg I mean this I I heard that um he he sort of when he made this movie I heard that he's he was like guys you know I just made Raiders or whatever it was he had made that had just made another mountain load of cash and he's like guys just give me this money and leave me alone I'm gonna go off and make this little family movie and he thought that he was making something that that nobody was really going to see because he thought it was just going to be a family film and it was going to be one of his minor entries um which incidentally if you look at the career of Spielberg what whenever he has that moment where he admits that that's what he was doing um like I'm not gonna storyboard this and I'm just gonna it's gonna be a smaller you know that's when he makes like Schindler's list or you know the his his real artistic triumphs. And I guess we could theorize about why that is but uh certainly in this case I think you can make the case that he was firing on all cylinders you know uh highest grossing movie of all time until Jurassic Park it took over Star Wars and then got bumped by Jurassic yeah so as Jeff Goldblum uh said when he hosted Saturday Night Live I I guess the guy who made ET must be really bummed out right now. But like you he that soulful feeling that you're talking about um is is you know it's what I touched on earlier where you get those little moments where like she has her wand and she hits the candle or you know all the well observed like the little the one kid tries to touch the mom's butt you know like all these all these little just he's paying so much attention to the humanity. He's he's he's in it. And uh I think I was reading an interview with Melissa Matheson where you know she says that a lot of it came out of improvisation as you know I think is probably obvious in the same way that like the Kittner the moment after the Kittner boy in Jaws came out of improvisation. Just um I think that Spielberg was really feeling free to to inter to in the moment in the flow to just interact with each um actor to to allow them the space to to to be real and then very very attuned to what details they were bringing to it that he could um let the camera observe. So it's uh it's basically I think it's just a a master director really truly at the height of his powers you just made me think of something because we you know now we've brought it up a couple times but with that uh scene between Brody and his son at dinner so in E.T.

SPEAKER_02:

what I thought was so interesting so he it seems like that's something he maybe likes to do a little bit. I can't I can't think of a third film. I feel like if there's a third film he for sure likes to do it.

SPEAKER_00:

I feel like he he did it more in his early days than he has early work. Yeah because I also I kind of think ET is you know sort of the pinnacle of of his directing ability not to say that he didn't make great movies afterwards but that they didn't have that same level of improvisational humanity sort of so yeah I I think there there might be a reason why you you're not seeing uh other examples beyond that.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah no that's fair and I I will say this much though because like uh between your comment and then what Derek was saying even with just like seeing the flowers come back to life he has a lot of really great payoff moments yeah in this film I mean the flowers for sure I love I love how these flat these flowers are carried throughout and eventually go with E.T. when he leaves um he earned those flowers he he earned those flowers but then also when Elliot first brings ET inside what I thought was just the kind of the same thing as in in Jaws where Elliot makes a a move and E.T. mimics it yeah I I didn't really realize at the time that that that was like kind of subtly setting up this emotional kind of psychic connection between the two.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah well yeah you're right I mean a lot of the visual storytelling that Spielberg does in that movie is really subtle you you get a lot of the setups without even realizing them. Like for instance uh one one of my favorite setup and payoffs in the movie um is when the first time you see those the ETs coming off the ship the red light comes on and they all freeze. Right? And then that's it. There's no explanation we don't know the mechanics of it right we you know there's no explanation of how that works because we don't need it. We just you get it okay they're all connected and then the movie moves on and then you get into this period where ET is dying but you're not really sure why right you're like is it earth germs? Is he just he is he not eating right? I don't know what's happening. And then the payoff is so excellent the light comes on while while he's dead he's he's dead in the in the freezer right and Elliot says I love you and he walks away and just as he's closing the thing the red light comes back on bing and then ET comes back to life and you're like oh suddenly I've gotten the like this payoff of a setup that was so early in the movie that was not not even really explained. We just saw it again very subtle visual storytelling the payoff is oh the phone the the phone call worked his his people are coming back to get him and now they're in range and because they're in range the light comes back on and he comes back to life the reason he was dying was because they were out of range you know he was separated from his people and all of it comes together and there's like none of it is explained through dialogue. It's all just visuals.

SPEAKER_02:

He's really good yeah that's Billberg he's uh yeah he's got he's got this uh this talent for making movies yeah keep at that he's no joke um so okay so it we'll we'll see where this goes but I was curious before we wrap up this amazing conversation so I think between the three of us there's kind of a general agreement tell me if I'm wrong that all of us have this kind of like childhood attachment and and love for the film that has evolved as we've all become adults and Derek you you were bringing up the point of like what would it mean to a person that perhaps didn't grow up with the film. Um and this is tying into you've mentioned at this point uh your wife several times and some of the things that she has she noticed in the film. So is she uh individual who wasn't acquainted with ET when she was younger and has only seen it as an adult or does she just have a different take on it to your knowledge of uh I think she's basically the former because I I did ask her you know she she was not alive when it came out uh which is not to say she was dead when it came out and then the light went on and she and the red and the it was great.

SPEAKER_00:

But you know she no I asked her, you know, we were getting ready to to rewatch it for this and I said what was the last time you saw it she said oh you know the last time we watched it and I sort of got the impression from her that it didn't have a whole lot of childhood meaning to her so when we watched it again this time I sort of posed to her the same question that I posed to you and she had I think maybe an even better answer than I did she said uh it's about empathy you know because again that's what that's what Elliot learns he learns empathy and it's um I mean they kind of they both do. Can I tell you guys something else that's I'm I'm gonna change the subject completely let's do it it's really kind of amazing if you if you think about ET's character he he comes from this race of aliens that we see their their whole thing is collecting plants they are much more comfortable interacting with plants than they are interacting with living creatures and in fact when living creatures are coming to or coming in the beginning towards them their first instinct is oh we got to get the hell out of here so I you know if you think about it from that point of view I think that ET has this sort of character arc where he's he's thrust into this situation he's really screwed right he's left alone and now he has to venture outside of his comfort zone and he's forced to interact with another living creature which maybe he doesn't do you know maybe the reason that they are all about plants is because that's the only thing that they can you know it's really tough for them to relate to anything that isn't an ET. Maybe not I mean he's got these psychic powers but at any rate you know E.T. kind of has this journey he he's he ha he's forced to reach out for help because there's no other way he's gonna get home and he's incredibly lucky that he bonds with this good kid from the suburbs as opposed to an adult who wants to dissect him and they form this friendship and then at the at the end it's it's I mean if you look at it from this point of view it's almost heartbreaking when they're saying goodbye he he he he knows it's not right but he says come because he can't he's he doesn't want to let Elliot go and it's you know it's it's a the empathy works both ways he he has to he's had this experience that you know he he and his people aren't familiar with of bonding with another living creature that isn't of their that isn't like them right and it's hard for him to to let go but he's able to do it because he understands it's not right.

SPEAKER_02:

But even up until the last minute he he's tempted I find that really fascinating really fascinating yeah I that that is such a wonderful comment and actually when we were watching it I was saying I mean I somewhat in jest but I was like Ellie should go with him. I mean what an incredible experience that would be I mean be the kid version of Roy in close encounters of their kind and and I was like as the mom you should encourage him to like have that have that crazy if he can go out for an hour after dark why not get on the alien spaceship. Exactly exactly no I and and you know what I'll say this much for so so if the assessment is correct in terms of you know somebody that you know not being acquainted with the film as a child yet being able to have that takeaway from the film in terms of it being about empathy then that film's done a really great job.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah uh Melissa Matheson uh if I go back to my notes here I saw an interview with her um which led me to believe that uh my wife was correct the the quote I wrote it down was she said the simple understanding that these two little creatures a little earth boy and a little alien could understand each other with nothing in common if they could understand each other anyone can understand each other.

SPEAKER_02:

So I guess that that's what she was I you know maybe that was her North Star while she was writing the screenplay well I think that's probably the perfect way to wrap it up yeah I mean I don't I don't think you can do better than such a poignant statement. Yeah what's that you gotta give the last word to Mel Melissa Mathison Yeah it's it's beautifully said and I think it especially now it's it's an incredibly timely and and poignant statement to be making so yeah Dan this has been yeah right I feel like I went through this like emotional journey. Yeah me too it the I I I I'm just so happy that that you were able to join us for this and and this has been amazing. It's it's really been amazing. You guys are amazing yeah it no but serious seriously like it it was really just such a pleasure to to be able to discuss all these different aspects of the film with somebody who obviously has so much love and knowledge of the film and and brought up a lot of really great things that I hadn't really necessarily considered about it. Yeah agreed and uh yeah just they thank you so much.

SPEAKER_00:

Well thank you for the opportunity to talk about it. You know um it's funny that it's funny that people in the industry don't do this more often to just sit down and talk about the artistry of a movie to really devote the time to really unpack what the good choices are and why those choices were made and how they affect the the the finished product and and what we can take away from them because it it seems to me like that's we're all we all love movies and if you love something you know taking the time to really appreciate it can be very rewarding. So I'm I'm grateful for the opportunity.

SPEAKER_04:

And there are um plenty of times where that discussion can go into like weird and silly places. I think there are several titles where you know you you notice things that are just kind of like I don't think they meant for that to happen or this was kind of silly. And there are are plenty of those things in this movie I think but they're just so overwhelmed or brushed to the side by all of the just amazing powerful things that come out of it for me. I mean I could talk about the geography of this neighborhood and how it seems to span many different climate zones. But overall it just it all comes together so well and more than any other movie that we've talked about so far on this podcast it just has like it leaves you with all these different emotions where like when we're almost done with this call we're like all taking a deep breath because we're like oh it's a lot yep it's ET baby it's ET baby so speaking of things that we love I wanted to ask you Dan about what you've been up to oh yeah kind of teased it yeah and now let lay it on us man because I I am very curious to hear about these uh I'm ready yeah I'm ready uh this is actually gonna take like five minutes to unpack because I'm gonna relate it to to to the filmography of Steven Spielberg.

SPEAKER_00:

Oh awesome well we've talked about how poltergeist was happening at the same time as ET right and and we've also sort of touched on how uh Close Encounters pre-predates this movie and I'm I'm a really strong believer I I love art more than anything uh and secondarily I love artists but I I I personally one thing that just really gets my juices flowing is to analyze the career of an artist and see how they progress. And then to me there's always a point where where an artist peaks which is not to say that their work afterwards isn't good but just like you you're not gonna get better than this. Like the early Elton John albums are just you know up to Goodbye Yellowbrick Road are just in a different league than everything that came after right I I think universally we can all agree on this. And like Spielberg in the 80s suburban Spielberg specifically was just channeling you know some real uh some real heartfelt emotion as we can all agree and um close encounters is his meditation on his father leaving from his father's point of view and then et to me seems like a meditation on that from from his point of view and it's a more forgiving version. You know in in close encounters it's really weird that the the dad is just like I'm gonna get in the spaceship and fly away and leave my family behind. And you feel the honesty of how unresolved that is but then by the time you get to ET you also feel that he's mellowed and matured as an artist and he's more capable of forgiveness. So now I'm gonna segue from that to what I've been doing, what I really love doing lately is making these Spotify playlists that are in chronological order of artists' best songs. So I have two rules my rule number one is it if it's if there's any dispute about whether or not this song is good, it just doesn't go on the playlist. It has to be like it has to be undeniably great. And secondly and it has to be in chronological order. And so I create these playlists for each artist that I love and then I I I sit and I listen to them chronologically and I I I get this I get the same sort of I'm able to unpack or or to track I guess I should say the narrative of that artist's growth and until they hit that point where it's like you know once you hit this song uh like for Dusty Springfield once you hit windmills of your mind you've hit the top and there's nothing better than that and now the mix is over. It's just that's the end of the of the playlist so I've I've uh I guess my um I guess my uh what's the word that I'm looking for what I'm what I'm selling here what I'm uh what I'm promoting what what do you want to share with the world what I'm here to promote is my Spotify playlists if you go to if you look me up on Spotify it's all one word Daniel Strange lowercase um and I just have a whole bunch of public playlists that are um artists that I like that track all their best songs in chronological order so you can if that's the kind of thing that flows you if anybody likes music and they're they're interested in listening to just good songs that progressively get better then um I I suggest you check out my Spotify user uh page which features at the time that I just looked it up about 33 different playlists wow and I get I get in there guys like the Beatles playlist uh it's not just like their best songs but like with the for instance for artists like the Beatles where there's multiple versions of those songs I I've narrow it down to find not you know the best version but the best recording some some you know sometimes there'll be multiple uh instances of exactly the same recording but some are compressed differently and I get I go for the one with the best compression like I could I really I put a lot in I think what I what I like about it is that most of these playlists are named in such a way to where they end with strange mix.

SPEAKER_02:

I love that one last time tell people where they can find us on Spotify.

SPEAKER_00:

Okay if you go to Spotify and you go into the little search bar and you type Daniel Strange all one word lowercase d-a-n-i-e l s t r a n g e uh I think it'll take you to my profile then you click on that and you go to public playlists and I I promise you you will not be disappointed.

SPEAKER_02:

If you are disappointed then you don't have to subscribe to any of the uh you don't have to follow any of the playlists fair enough yeah that's fair I gotta say we got everything from ABBA to Beatles to Dolly Parton David Bowie Kenny Rogers I saw there yeah that's a good one guys I gotta tell you that's a good one thank you again for for everything this is honestly this has been just such a joy and of course we love you and we definitely would love to have you on the show again uh this has been fantastic so we're gonna bring you on for Bloodsport too a movie I've not really doing I was like did we lose Dan again there is a sequel we've not watched it nor will we cover it. Yeah that one we're gonna hard pass. Yeah but all right Dan you take care love to Sarah and thank you again so that was our fantastic conversation with our good friend Daniel Strange and definitely be sure to check out those awesome Spotify playlists or strange mixes strange mixes yeah as he likes to call them yeah I already have checked out a few of them um in the time that it took us to go from our conversation with him back to this podcast I've listened to at least three of them. They're pretty good. I was checking them out too yeah I like them. So uh call the action.

SPEAKER_04:

Yeah lay it on me.

SPEAKER_02:

Okay.

SPEAKER_04:

Do you have one too or I do but I want to make sure we don't have the same one so you go first.

SPEAKER_02:

Okay. Mine's mine's pretty simple.

SPEAKER_04:

Okay.

SPEAKER_02:

It you don't have to deduce very much uh from the the theme of the film to to get mine, which is that have you used a phone? Close. Do you believe in aliens? Okay that's a good one. Yeah I just figured it's very topical uh at least according to the film and who knows maybe there are people out there that want to share those stories with us if they have them I mean it's it's possible. I mean of course anything's possible anything is possible. Yeah and if they want to do that they can through our Facebook or Twitter or Instagram. The handle's the same for all three it is at 80s montage pod and that's 80s with an eight and a zero and an S 80s montage pod. Don't you want to know what my call to action is I'm I'm waiting with bated breath.

SPEAKER_04:

So it's it's not quite as um as huge in scope as whether or not you believe in alien life. It's just have you ever had to dissect a frog in school? That's a good one.

SPEAKER_01:

That's actually a really good one.

SPEAKER_04:

If so did it involve shoving cotton balls soaked in chloroform into a jar with a dead frog.

SPEAKER_02:

So essentially what you're hoping to do is dredge up these really traumatic experiences that people may have had in high school or younger. Ideally would be really interesting because like I said well between you and Dan you're the only one that actually did anything of that.

SPEAKER_04:

Trevor Burrus And they were not alive. It was not the cotton ball chloroform method of frog dissection.

SPEAKER_02:

I I have a sneaking suspicion that probably younger generation Uh like Gen Z probably don't have that in their classrooms anymore.

SPEAKER_04:

Just throw on some VR goggles and do it versus.

SPEAKER_02:

Probably. So, but that's a good one too. So I so either way, whether you want to answer have you ever dissected a frog?

SPEAKER_04:

Whether you believe in frog dissection or aliens.

SPEAKER_02:

Let us know. Okay, great. So sneak peek for two weeks from now when our next episode will drop.

SPEAKER_04:

What do we got?

SPEAKER_02:

What do you think we got?

SPEAKER_04:

I mean, I think we have something with the dread pirate Roberts, possibly.

SPEAKER_02:

The Princess Pride.

SPEAKER_04:

That's awesome.

SPEAKER_02:

Yes, that is uh my pick. But as with most of these films, I know that you love that movie too. And I'm super excited for our special guest for that episode. Uh, she's a good friend, and she also is a composer. So I think we might have maybe kind of an interesting take on parts of the film that we don't normally I mean, I know we had a really great conversation about John Williams today.

SPEAKER_05:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02:

But to actually get to talk to somebody who that is what they do, really interesting. Yeah, that's gonna be awesome. So yeah, so I'm definitely looking forward to that.

SPEAKER_04:

Awesome. Well, look forward to going over the Princess Bride with our next guest, and I hope that everyone is able to join in and listen. And as always, we will try to do better next time.

SPEAKER_02:

Take care, be safe, be healthy, and talk to you soon. All right, bye.