'80s Movie Montage
Breaking down our favorite decade of flicks. Hosted by Anna Keizer and Derek Dehanke.
'80s Movie Montage
Big Trouble in Little China
Yes, sir, the check is in the mail! With special guest Owen Croak, Anna and Derek discuss the Kurt Russell starrer and John Carpenter cult classic, Big Trouble in Little China (1986).
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Anna Keizer and Derek Dehanke are the co-hosts of ‘80s Movie Montage. The idea for the podcast came when they realized just how much they talk – a lot – when watching films from their favorite cinematic era. Their wedding theme was “a light nod to the ‘80s,” so there’s that, too. Both hail from the Midwest but have called Los Angeles home for several years now. Anna is a writer who received her B.A. in Film/Video from Columbia College Chicago and M.A. in Film Studies from Chapman University. Her dark comedy short She Had It Coming was an Official Selection of 25 film festivals with several awards won for it among them. Derek is an attorney who also likes movies. It is a point of pride that most of their podcast episodes are longer than the movies they cover.
Owen Croak is one of those screenwriters who thought he was too responsible to be a “real” writer. Then he had emergency surgery, got fired, and decided he’d rather spend his time writing about time-travelers, aliens, and superheroes. In addition to being published in the Los Angeles Times, his work has placed in the 2022 Creative Screenwriting Unique Voices competition and in the Austin Film Festival Script competition for the last three years in a row.
Hello and welcome to 80s movie montage. And yes, sir, the check is in the mail. This is Derek.
SPEAKER_02:And this is Anna.
SPEAKER_04:And on today's episode, we are here to talk about 1986's Big Trouble in Little China.
SPEAKER_02:That is correct. This is your pick?
SPEAKER_04:It is my yeah, it is my pick. Either It is truly your pick. And from what I've heard about this movie, it's a movie that has kind of like cult status because it didn't do well in the box office and then kind of found this new life in home entertainment, like a lot of movies, uh, even our last movie, Princess Bride, did. But probably more so, or yeah, I would say more so than a lot of other movies. This is a movie that you either kind of like remember from the 80s and think it's awesome, or maybe you saw it a couple nights ago and think it's less awesome.
SPEAKER_02:I'd fall into the latter category. Well, yes, I think the and well, okay, as far as really having just seen it for the first time uh a few nights ago, that uh yeah, I mean, we mentioned it uh we'll shortly have our good friend Owen who had amazing things to say about this film. But uh one thing that I mention is, you know, I've always known that you've loved this movie. Yeah. And so there have been multiple times where I have just found you watching it, and so I've seen bits and pieces, but I never saw the whole thing. So yeah, it was an experience.
SPEAKER_04:It's such a ridiculous movie, and I think I I've I've come to realize that I just really enjoy ridiculous movies.
SPEAKER_02:Totally valid. Totally valid. I mean, that that in large part is a lot of 80s films.
SPEAKER_04:So that that introduction is actually kind of an interesting part of the movie that we do talk a little bit more with Owen, where uh that that quote from Kurt Russell is Jack Burton, is is really like the intro to the character, and as the opening credits uh roll roll out, he is also rolling out in his big rig, The Pork Shop Express, on his way to San Francisco. And initially, that was how the movie was gonna start. They they did put uh a new scene in that we'll talk about later with Owen, but I think it's um kind of a fun way to get a sense that like this guy is kind of a how how would you describe Jack Burton?
SPEAKER_02:How would I describe Jack Burton? I mean, he is kind of a doofus.
SPEAKER_04:Did that intro kind of tell you what you needed to know right off the bat? Did anything change in your opinion?
SPEAKER_02:Uh oh, that's actually a really good question. No. Um, I would say that they did a really great job of introducing his character and having that character remain very consistent to how he was introduced throughout the course of the film.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, yeah, I would agree. I mean, I like that after shortly after his uh the check is in the mail line, he does they they give up this uh his his whole it'd be a pretty crazy universe if we were like, okay, well he's an idiot, but he's kind of open-minded.
unknown:I like that.
SPEAKER_02:So let's talk about how this crazy film came together. Let's do it. Okay. So uh uh yeah, and again, we we do actually do a little bit of a deeper dive with Owen with some of these different people who are involved with the film.
SPEAKER_04:Not just the people involved in the film, but there are just like there are in a lot of the movies that we've gone through, there are a lot of issues today, looking through the lens of 2020, where you look at one of these 80s movies and you think, ooh. We do get into that a little bit more than that. We do get into that. And he's he's great in like just breaking it down. Giving context. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah. So always starts with the script, and in this case, we have three gentlemen who get credit for creating this script. So here's what I gather is that, and also from some of the reading I did about how this all came about. So initially the script was written by two gentlemen. Uh, their names are Gary Goldman and David Z. Weinstein. And they were kind of, well, it's okay. Other people have that name. Okay, just checking. Doesn't necessarily mean anything. Um and they were kind of newbie writers. Uh, and again, I won't I won't go into it because we we actually have quite a bit of ground that we covered with um Owen, so want to get there sooner than later, but uh it's it it wasn't there uh as far as being able to go into production with like what they created. Um, real quick though, what I always find interesting is you know, I kind of take a look at their other work, and as far as um Weinstein is concerned, like this credit is pretty much it for him.
SPEAKER_04:That is that's kind of interesting.
SPEAKER_02:I would have imagined this would have just uh just skies the limit after Big Triple. And so um yeah, I found that really interesting too because actually a lot of the writer in all facets of the films that we've covered, usually it seems like the people involved have really gone on to have quite extensive careers, but it's also completely valid. I don't know what direction he went into, but that's kind of it for him. And then as far as Gary Goldman is concerned, he he has some other credits that um it kind of I feel like in a weird way it kind of falls in line with the the work that he did here. Okay. So another of his credits is Total Recall. The original with uh Arnold Schwarzenegger and uh movie Navy SEALs.
SPEAKER_04:I've never seen it, but uh that uh was Charlie Sheen in that?
SPEAKER_02:I think so.
SPEAKER_04:Okay, I think so.
SPEAKER_02:And then he's not credited, but he did script revisions on Basic Instinct. Okay, so that's just a couple of his credits. Um, and then once uh you know, I don't know, powers that be decided that they wanted this film to move forward, they brought in a writer by the name of W.D. Richter. And this is a person who has uh quite a bit of street cred. So uh, and also I think it's kind of interesting some of the work that they've done in terms of like how that influences where this particular script went. So, for instance, they're the writer behind Invasion of the Body Snatchers from 78. Okay, uh 79's Dracula.
SPEAKER_04:Which one was that?
SPEAKER_02:I don't think I've seen that one.
SPEAKER_04:I there there are a lot of Dracula movies. There's a lot of Dracula movies out there. So that's why I think that's a good one.
SPEAKER_02:That's exactly why I included it. So um, so yeah, so 79's Dracula.
SPEAKER_04:He's like, look, I have some great ideas.
SPEAKER_02:Um Needful Things, which is another kind of dark.
SPEAKER_04:Oh, I'm very familiar with Needful Things, the Stephen King book. Okay, yeah. It was a great book. It was uh interesting movie because the like the guy running the shop was also the uh main father from The Exorcist.
SPEAKER_02:Oh yeah, what's that guy's name? That guy's name.
SPEAKER_04:Guy perfect.
SPEAKER_02:But then also what's funny, and I always think this is hilarious when you see certain uh credits for an individual, and then you see something completely outside of that. He also wrote Home for the Holidays. It makes sense. So it's like, oh, okay, well, the guy's got range. Yeah. Uh so he came in and did a rewrite on on what those other two writers had done. And so that's kind of how the script came together. All right. And like I mentioned in our chat with Owen, had no idea before sitting down to watch this with you a few nights ago that this is a John Carpenter film. Uh yeah, was completely surprised by that. And this is a gentleman who I mean, huge name in cinema. Uh even now.
SPEAKER_04:I mean he's still involved in like the next Halloween movie coming out. Halloween Kills. Yep. I think.
SPEAKER_02:Yep. So Which got pushed for reasons. Sure. So uh yeah, and that's that's how I know him. I know him primarily as a horror director.
SPEAKER_04:I always think of two movies, two different like franches, I guess, but two movies when I think of John Carpenter, and that would be Halloween and The Fame.
SPEAKER_02:Correct.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:Yep. And uh yep, two of his uh credits that I have listed here. I mean, I love Halloween of those uh horror franchises that again we kind of go down that path with Owen, but between Friday the 13th and Freddy and Halloween, which kind of all somewhat started at the same time and have gone on to have crazy longevity, uh Halloween's my favorite.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, I would agree. Yeah. I I think there's something it it's got a relatively lower body count than a lot of those uh older older horror movies, and I've always appreciated that in horror. I mean, one of those things that kind of like separates the line, I guess, between thriller and horror is sometimes the body count.
SPEAKER_02:Mm-hmm. Yeah, I didn't know.
SPEAKER_04:And there's um there is a body count of maybe 48 people in Big Trouble in Little China. I think I saw that somewhere. Oh, really?
SPEAKER_02:I would think it's actually higher.
SPEAKER_04:Well, some of those guys were okay and they just got up and left.
SPEAKER_02:Okay. I mean, there's a lot of gunfire. Yeah, but they're not very good shows. Okay, okay, fair. So Carpenter, um, besides Halloween and this film, uh, he was the director behind The Fog. Uh, we talked about this with Owen, both Escape from New York and Escape from LA. The thing. Christine.
SPEAKER_04:Okay. Another uh Stephen King, one of his earlier books that launched him into fame. Uh, that was a good movie.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah. Yeah, Starman.
SPEAKER_04:That was also a movie that I just could never get on board with.
SPEAKER_02:They live and Village of the Damned.
SPEAKER_04:They live may be featured on this podcast. It might be it might be out of the list. Okay. We'll see. Another Derek Pick.
SPEAKER_02:Which is fine.
SPEAKER_04:I I honestly I'll do it just to get that one quote in. The uh I'm here to chew bubblegum and kick ass and I'm all at a bubblegum and yeah.
SPEAKER_02:There you go. I was giving you the space to do the quote. So uh Well, you know.
SPEAKER_04:There there it is.
SPEAKER_02:There it is.
SPEAKER_04:Okay. We we do talk about that. Uh our our call with Owen, it dives deep into big trouble in little China, and it like really branches off when we start getting into carpenter's works.
SPEAKER_02:Um but it's all good. And we we always find a way to bring it back to the film. So even when we go on our tangents, it's what we do.
SPEAKER_04:It's what we do. This is called 10 hour 80s movie podcast.
SPEAKER_02:Okay, so who this film was shot by. So this is funny, at least to me, I gotta chuckle out of it. It's uh the cinematographer was a gentleman by the name of Dean Cunt Cundy.
SPEAKER_04:Mm-hmm. Okay. That sounds right. I don't know him.
SPEAKER_02:So here's what's funny to me is that I go to his IMDB and I'm reading his bio, and here's how his bio begins. Dean Cundy reigns supreme as one of the best, most prolific, and talented cinematographers to ever grace celluloid with his often striking and accomplished photography. This guy sounds amazing. Well, yeah, and so I'm like, all right, all right, you know, like I'm immediately uh cynical. Well, here's the thing is that I was completely wrong. So I I throw shade as soon as I see this first sentence for this guy, and then I scroll down to actually see his credits. Oh no, he's he's legit. Um so he has over a hundred credits as cinematographer right now. All right. Um, on and he's still he's still working, he's still with us, so that's fantastic. Okay, so I'm going to, you know, always in chronological order, kind of list off some of these credits of these people. So one of his earlier credits, I just had to have this, Satan's Cheerleaders. Okay. Love it. Yeah. Um, and also, okay, so as we go along, this guy had a relationship, um, professional relationship with Carpenter in terms of he was the uh cinematographer on Halloween.
SPEAKER_04:I mean, we saw this with Spielberg. Yeah, this happens a lot. Yeah, these guys they find their guy and they stick with him.
SPEAKER_02:Spielberg, uh he'll be kind of referenced in just a moment. So Halloween, The Fog, Escape from New York. He did another film called Jaws of Satan. Is that related to cheerleaders of Satan? I don't know, but another really great title. Okay. Is that the Spielberg connection, Jaws? No. Okay. Uh he also did Halloween 2, the thing, and Halloween 3, Season of the Witch, which we talk about with Halloween.
SPEAKER_04:Honestly, like I would rather watch the remake of Poltergeist in that movie.
SPEAKER_02:So then, one of our favorites, he did Romancing the Stone. That's awesome. Isn't that hilarious? And then get this. So keep going. He did all Back to the Futures. Okay. Okay, pretty so pretty impressive.
SPEAKER_04:That uh that little description isn't so out of place anymore, isn't it?
SPEAKER_02:Exactly. Who framed Roger Rabbit?
SPEAKER_04:Well, that was incredible. Incredible. For its time.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah. Death becomes. I had to include that one because I just absolutely love that movie. Well, yeah, a lot of people do. Uh he was a cinematographer on Jurassic Park.
SPEAKER_04:Oh shit.
SPEAKER_02:That's uh that's legit. Apollo 13. This guy is fucking good at what he does. Like, wow, I take back all of my cynicism because this guy really is one of the best cinematographers.
SPEAKER_04:Like, see if we can contact him and apologize. Yeah, I know. We're sorry forever. We should have never questioned you.
SPEAKER_02:So, all right. So that's uh that's who shot this film. Moving on, so I mentioned this briefly with Owen. It's always a little suspect when you see multiple names credited for certain roles. Um, I mean, that actually happens a lot with scripts. When you see more than, I don't know, maybe two names on a script. It's always a little iffy. Um because that that typically is indicative that like you don't have a clear voice coming through. You had too many people trying to put band-aids on a script. Yeah. Um, same thing here, and but I think actually we kind of talk through maybe why this happened because there's three editors credited on this film. Very unusual, yeah, highly unusual. Uh so and all three, it this was very interesting to me because all three have like really great pedigree. So I was like, oh, that's so interesting. We did talk about how they really rushed production of this film, so maybe that has something to do with it. I didn't actually dive into you know, trying to find reasons why they had three editors on here.
SPEAKER_04:Um but you beat out that golden child.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, exactly. So that that very possibly could be the reason why, very innocent reason. Um, but of those editors, so the first is Steve Markovich.
SPEAKER_04:Okay. I buy that.
SPEAKER_02:So uh this gentleman, he's cut films such as Friday the 13th, part eight, Jason Takes Manhattan.
SPEAKER_04:That one was uh ridiculous, but not quite as ridiculous as the best one ever, which is Jason X, where he's like in space and if so good. That is the dumbest fucking movie I've ever seen.
SPEAKER_02:It's so bad. But that's yeah, exactly. He also cut Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles to The Secret of the Ooze.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, I think I may have seen the first one. Those are the I didn't even know there was a second one. Yeah, yeah. So I remember the title. As soon as you said too, I'm like, oh, that's the secret of the ooze, I think.
SPEAKER_02:The secret of the ooze, Necessary Roughness, Broken Arrow. That was a good film. That was uh under Conair.
SPEAKER_04:That's almost as dumb as anything else I've ever seen, but but it yeah.
SPEAKER_02:It it's had longevity. I mean, people love Conair.
SPEAKER_04:I feel like Con Air and The Rock, both with Nicolas Cage, they they feel like they're they're in the same universe. Right, right. And it's a dumb universe, but it's the same universe.
SPEAKER_02:I know what you did last summer. Alright. Yeah. So this guy, he has some interesting credits. Also on this film, a gentleman by the name of Mark Warner.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, that's the easiest name you're gonna get to pronounce in his competitors. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:Um, okay, so among other films that he's cut, Rocky III.
SPEAKER_04:Mm-hmm.
SPEAKER_02:Probably my favorite of the Rockies.
SPEAKER_04:Um, I I do like Rocky II a lot, but Rocky III, of course, is the Eye of the Tiger. Right, exactly.
SPEAKER_02:That's probably the only reason why. Um 48 Hours, Staying Alive, Weird Science. Okay. Yeah. The movie. The movie. And then um also Great Range, uh, Driving Miss Daisy.
SPEAKER_04:Okay.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah. Leap of Faith, Dolores Claiborne.
SPEAKER_04:Another Stephen King.
SPEAKER_02:I thought so.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:Devil's Advocate. And Laura Croft, Tomb Raider.
SPEAKER_04:None of those movies have done very well. I mean, the Laura Croft movies. Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_02:Although, I mean, I'm sure it was technically a financial success when it came out. I don't know. Okay, last gentleman. I'm gonna give this my best try. Edward A. Warshulka?
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, I that's how I would say it.
SPEAKER_02:I really greatly apologize if ever I mispronounce these names, but um, do it try and try and roll hard. Try and roll hard here.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:Okay, so among the films that he's cut, The Running Man, Child's Play 3.
SPEAKER_04:The Running Man, underrated movie. Or is it just rated? It's pretty ridiculous, too.
SPEAKER_02:I don't know, never saw it. Um, Village of the Damned. So again, he's been on a couple of uh Carpenter films, Escape from LA, Vampires, John Carpenter's Vampires. Oh, my apologies featuring James Woods. My my apologies.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:And then he's done some um, he it seems like he's transitioned into television because he's cut for Castle, the last ship. Don't know that show, but uh Berlin Station. So so it seems like that's where he's gone.
SPEAKER_04:Castle was that uh Nathan Fillion one, and the last ship was like I I think it's Snowpiercer in the water, but on a battleship. I don't think it's anything like that, but that's what I just okay.
SPEAKER_02:That's an interesting pitch.
SPEAKER_04:That's my okay.
SPEAKER_02:All right, so moving on to the people who who are in the film. Um, Chief Among Them, you've already mentioned Mr. Kurt Russell. So he plays Jack Burton. You know what I didn't really realize about Kurt Russell when I was like looking at his IMDB? I didn't realize that he came into the industry so young, like he very much was a child actor.
SPEAKER_04:Oh, I didn't know that either.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, I mean, when he was 11 years old, he uh was on an episode of Dennis the Menace.
SPEAKER_03:Wow.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, so he he's been in this industry for his whole life. Um he was in something called the Travels of Jamie McFeatures.
SPEAKER_04:I am not familiar with that.
SPEAKER_02:As I'm not either. I had to include this one because I just thought it was so funny the way he was credited. He was on an episode of Gilligan's Island and he was credited as Jungle Boy.
SPEAKER_00:Wow.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, I just thought that was funny.
SPEAKER_04:I've seen I'm positive I've seen every single episode of Gilligan's Island.
SPEAKER_02:Really?
SPEAKER_04:Yeah. Because it like we grew up in a in a era when like you would turn on the TV and whatever was on.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, that's what you watched. That's what you watched. Yeah.
SPEAKER_04:You're like, oh, maybe I'll go stream something. No, there was no option for that. So that's why I've probably seen every episode of like I Love Lucy and Gilgan's Island.
SPEAKER_02:Okay, fair.
SPEAKER_04:But I don't remember uh Kurt Russell.
SPEAKER_02:Well, Jungle Boy, I'm not sure if he's got a starring starring role in that episode. Um so we I think we talk about this with I mean, he had kind of a relationship with Carpenter. He was in like five of his films. So outside of Big Trouble, he was, you know, Escape from New York, Escape from LA, um, the thing. Yeah. Um you know what I didn't know? And this man, this Disney movie when I was a kid was a real tear tearjerker for me, The Fox and the Hound.
SPEAKER_04:Oh, if you think the Disney animated feature of the Fox and the Hound is depressing, just go look up that that story on Wikipedia and learn more about the book that it's based off of.
SPEAKER_02:No, thank you.
SPEAKER_04:Because that Disney movie is literally the Disney fication of that story.
SPEAKER_02:I don't wanna no, I can't, that's a that's too much for me already.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:So I think he's the he's credited as the voice of Copper, so I think it must be the adult copper.
SPEAKER_05:Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:Which I was like, oh my god, that's crazy. Yeah. Um when you mentioned the thing, uh okay, one of my absolute favorite roles of Tombstone.
SPEAKER_04:Oh, okay, yeah. I thought you were gonna say 3,000 miles to Graceland.
SPEAKER_02:Uh no. No.
SPEAKER_04:No, he's he's great in Tombstone. I mean, that there are so many amazing performances, and for him to not only like equal or measure up, but to be like the guy in that movie, yeah, even with like Val Kermel really being the guy is Doc Holiday.
SPEAKER_02:I mean, you don't have a tombstone without Doc Holiday, and specifically Doc Holliday as played by Val Kilmer, but uh from what I've heard, and I'm not, you know, it's not an 80s movie, we although we do go on our tangents. Um I I have heard that Russell actually was kind of really the director behind this film. I I'm not familiar with the person who is credited as the director, but from what I've heard, because this was really like kind of Russell's project.
SPEAKER_04:Tombstone. Yeah. Okay.
SPEAKER_02:And so I I I think that, you know, the point I'm trying to make is that he probably had something to do with the way that Kilmer, not to take away from his own accomplishment of how he played that role, but like it all came together between the two of them.
SPEAKER_05:Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:So, um, so just a great film. So moving on, actually, you kind of uh brought up a connection. Well, I guess the point I'm trying to make is that he is in for scump, but he is uncredited as who do you think he was?
SPEAKER_04:I I don't know.
SPEAKER_02:He was the voice of Elvis.
SPEAKER_04:Oh, okay.
SPEAKER_02:And that seems to be a thing with Russell is that oh yeah. Right?
SPEAKER_04:Well, yeah. And he also is a thing for um like vengeful justice bringing sheriffs in both tombstone and bone tomahawk.
SPEAKER_02:That is enough that the only reason why I even have that movie on here is because of you.
SPEAKER_04:Let's just get that story out of the way.
SPEAKER_02:Tell the story because it is so good. Okay, so sidebar.
SPEAKER_04:I was out of town for a bit, and I suppose during October when we generally will just consume all of the Halloween things.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, horror, anything horror, Halloween. Okay, so I'm out of town. Derek is continuing with watching like Halloween movies while I'm gone. We're checking in with each other every night.
SPEAKER_04:Netflix would not shut up about this movie. Netflix's algorithm is like, hey man, watch this.
SPEAKER_02:So I call him and and we're talking about what he's watching, this movie called Bone Tomahawk. I'm not familiar with it. He's telling me who's in the film, and he keeps mentioning the name Kirk Douglas.
SPEAKER_04:It was not Kirk Douglas, because he would have been like 190 years old.
SPEAKER_02:And I'm I'm kind of confused. Am I really Kirk Douglas? Because he's telling me about the storyline, which is pretty intense.
SPEAKER_04:It was very intense. Holy cow.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, if for anybody who, you know, I'll let you if you want to on your own. I'm not gonna go into detail about how what this one particularly horrific scene that Derek described to me.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, no, like all joking aside, like, be forewarned, graphic violence. Yeah. Maybe not, maybe not the best movie. It's it's okay, but holy shit, there's there's awful things that you will see in this movie.
SPEAKER_02:So Which just confused me even more because I was like, Kirk Douglas is in this movie, because yes, he would have been about a hundred years old. And Derek's like, yeah, yeah, Kirk Douglas. And so finally I have to like look it up, and I'm like, baby. Maybe it's Kurt Kurt Russell. Maybe mean Kurt Russell.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, it was. It was Kurt Russell.
SPEAKER_02:I I love that story. It's it's great.
SPEAKER_04:You know what old Jack Burton says at a time like this? What the hell?
SPEAKER_02:All right. Um, so a couple other of his credits before we move on. Love him in Stargate. Oh, yeah. It's another movie I really like. Uh he's in Miracle.
SPEAKER_04:Yep, he's uh great herb. Last name, forget.
SPEAKER_02:It's okay. Basically, he's the coach. He's the coach of the team.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:Um, so he plays Ego uh in Gardens of the Galaxy.
SPEAKER_04:Part two Volume two. Volume two, yeah. He was great as in that role as ego.
SPEAKER_02:Really good, really good. And then a film that we came across, was it just last year or the year before? Oh, yeah.
SPEAKER_04:Santa Claus in the Christmas conical. And and he was a pretty good Santa.
SPEAKER_02:He's a great Santa. And it was so fun to see Goldie Hahn as a cameo as Mrs. Claus. And uh they're doing another one of those. Nice. So we'll get more of him. Yeah. Okay. Moving on. Kim Catrell. Gracie Lorne. Gracie Law. Uh so you probably have always, since you love this film, you've probably always associated this actress with this particular film. I, of course.
SPEAKER_04:No, I mean, I know well, when I first saw it, I didn't associate it where there's sex in the city, but now Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah. That is slam dunk.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:How I know Samantha Jones.
SPEAKER_04:She's not really the same character. Gracie Law is not Samantha Jones.
SPEAKER_02:No, no. That's why she's a great actress.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:So I, yes, that and and you know what? I I don't mean to take away from any of her other accomplishments because in looking over her uh line of credits, she's she's been working ever since Sex in the City uh went away. And so she's done a ton more. It's just That's just what you identify her with. Yeah, yeah. And I I hope that actors, actresses understand that like if they are beloved as a particular character, that that's an accomplishment because you made that much of an impact on the code.
SPEAKER_04:Two examples where I think that's not so much the case. Daniel Craig hates being James Bond. Yeah. And Sir Alec Guinness never really got Star Wars.
SPEAKER_02:He certainly, though, uh, well, maybe a story for another time. I I have listened to other podcasts. I'm trying to think of which one I heard it from. In any case, uh, he got some points on that film. So he did okay.
SPEAKER_04:So he was fine with it. I'm sure Daniel Craig has has uh been okay as well. Exactly. And I'm sure that Kim Cottrell is totally fine being recognized uh so frequently as being this person from Sex and City.
SPEAKER_02:So uh a couple of other credits. So she was on a I just because I think these things are fun. She was on an episode of The Incredible Hulk.
SPEAKER_03:Nice. The old one with uh Lou Fregnow.
SPEAKER_02:Nice um she was in Police Academy. Yeah she was this is the other film that I know her from from the 80s, mannequin.
SPEAKER_04:Well, yeah, and particularly her involvement with uh police academy, there were some movies that she was in before Big Trouble in Little China that actually question made them question whether they wanted her in that role. Right. But she was great in it.
SPEAKER_02:She was great, yeah. Um, The Bonfire of the Vanities. Okay. So, and and lastly, as we have talked about already, Sex in the City. Oh, yeah. Okay. So moving on to Dennis Dunn, who plays the character of Wang Chi.
SPEAKER_04:The hero of the movie. Yeah, in fact.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, the hero of the movie. Um, so uh honestly, moving forward, like all of these other actors that I'm gonna bring up extensive uh careers and and credits to speak of, but among some of his highlights, Year of the Dragon, The Last Emperor, Midnight Caller, and then that show that was on um unfortunately it it was prematurely, but but for very good reasons, stopped because there was um unfortunately like deaths to the horses involved that show luck.
SPEAKER_04:Oh, okay.
SPEAKER_02:Do you remember that? That was on a with uh with Dustin Hoffman a couple years ago. Oh yeah, it was about like r uh like horse racing and the whole deal.
SPEAKER_04:So I I know that like we t we talk quite a bit more about this with uh with Owen, but uh one of the things that I thought was interesting about Dennis Dunn was his excitement for being involved in this project because at the time in the 80s, uh possibly even now, it would have been relatively rare for a movie like this to have so many Asian actors involved in the project. I mean, we know we it's you don't have to go very far to think of some that have been like a real problem as far as like ghosts in the shell. So he was really excited about not only the fact that there were gonna be so many Asian actors involved in the project, but that Like looking at his role in the movie, it's a great role.
SPEAKER_02:It's a great role.
SPEAKER_04:So yeah, I don't really recognize him from a lot of other things, but I always identify him as as Wang from Big Trouble Middle China.
SPEAKER_02:Mm-hmm. And speaking of really great talent that got to be a part of this film and really put put their full talent on display James Hong.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, Lopan. Mm-hmm. He's amazing. He's he's so good at like playing these two different like versions of kind of the same character.
SPEAKER_02:Very much like Dracula. I'm sorry, but I I cannot like I was like, oh wow, so so many similarities between uh and and you know, Bram Stoker's Dracula Copa came definitely after this. So maybe they were inspired by this performance because there's so many similarities between the way that they portray these two characters.
SPEAKER_04:The way that he uh portrays like 12-foot tall, his his height increases every time someone references him. Like this seven foot tall guy, eight feet tall, twelve feet tall. But the way that he portrays that character, like you really get the sense that he is this like timeless, kind of evil wizard person. And old man Lopan, when he's going through kind of the mythology of his own character to uh Wang and Jack, you know, you he's like this more modern version, even though he's so old, and he kind of looks over at the at the um closed circuit TV and sees the other people kind of like looking for them. And he I think he says, This is really pissing me off to no end. And that line was amazing. It was so great to hear this like crotchety old guy, this is pissing me off to no end.
SPEAKER_02:That was a fun line that actually did prompt a like laugh out loud moment for me.
SPEAKER_04:I I almost heard a gaffaw. So, I mean, it's one of those things that this movie does so well in kind of blending some like more serious elements and then quickly interjecting some humor to keep it fun.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, exactly. And at this point, this gentleman, 91 years old, still working, yeah, which isn't surprising because as we bring up with Owen, literal jaw drop moment when I saw that he had 439 acting credits.
SPEAKER_03:That's insane.
SPEAKER_02:Insane. So, you know, I try to pick out highlights when we bring up these people, and it was so overwhelming to try to, you know, cipher down like what to even mention of his. So I'll I'll do my very best. Um, you know, he had and and here's what I also noticed about um maybe through through the credits, what I imagine the trajectory of his career. I mean, he just seemed to be up for for you know, anything. I mean, he is yeah, exactly. He is on so many different shows in particular. Um, but okay, so we have the man from Uncle, Chinatown, Kung Fu, Airplane, he had a bit roll.
SPEAKER_04:He was in the movie Airplane?
SPEAKER_02:Yeah. He had a bit roll in Blade Runner.
SPEAKER_04:Yes, I remember him in Blade Runner. He was the um the cryo eye doctor guy, I think. Okay. I think maybe.
SPEAKER_02:He did a lot of like the you know, primetime 80s uh like soap opera type shows. Like dying, he was on both Dynasty and Falcon Crust, both of those. And then he, you know, also bounced daytime soap opera, so he was on Days of Our Lives for a while. Apparently, he also was in the Golden Child.
SPEAKER_04:Yo, yeah. No, he was. He, yeah. Different kind of role, very different.
SPEAKER_02:Okay. He was in Tango and Cash, so another Kurt Russell Kurt Douglas. He was on Doogie Hauser.
SPEAKER_04:Really? Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:Um, and then also he plays the voice of Mr. Ping in the Kung Fu Panda films.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, I knew about that one.
SPEAKER_02:So, I mean, just and he is still working. Like, this guy is amazing.
SPEAKER_04:I mean, if you scroll through his credits, it's like everything you see. Oh, yeah, Nash Bridges, X-Files, okay, Bloodsport 2.
SPEAKER_02:Oh. I'm so I'm so sorry that I left that one out. How'd you leave that one out? Okay. So moving on to Victor Wong, who plays Egg Shen uh in the film. And there's a lot of overlap because some of these other films that I mention also required um a large cast of Asian actors, and so he also was in Year of the Dragon, he also was in the Golden Child, also in The Last Emperor.
SPEAKER_04:He had a I mean, his his role in the Golden Child wasn't completely dissimilar from from Big Trouble in Little China. He but I think his credit is just the old man. Okay. But he is in fact the father of Eddie Murphy's love interest and also kind of like a not a mentor, but he he's uh put in place to provide some very specific kind of assistance to Eddie Murphy in his journey of saving the Golden Child.
SPEAKER_02:Okay. Yeah. I'm so glad I have you here because I would not have been able to uh add that that info. Um you are definitely the also the Golden Child expert in this relationship.
SPEAKER_04:It's not a I I don't think it's as uh enjoyable overall of an experience as Big Trouble in Little China, but it was it was fun at the time. I mean it was it was really weird to see a movie like that with Eddie Murphy in it. I mean, because he certainly brought like Kurt Russell brings a lot of a comedic element to his portrayal of Jack Burton, but Eddie Murphy was just like a straight up comedian in this kind of like fantasy adventure kind of movie, also with uh what's his name? Charles Dance? Oh, yes, yeah, Game of Thrones. Yeah, he is the kind of like ultimate evil demon in uh playing a bad guy. Yeah, he he is very good.
SPEAKER_02:Okay, so moving on to Kate Burton, who plays Margot, Greasy Law's friend, and from what I gather, like a news reporter in the film. And she's one of those where, like, as soon as I saw her, I was like, Oh yeah, I recognize that actress. Yeah. And same, she's she's been in so much um before and after this film. So uh some of her credits, The Ice Storm, Unfaithful, she's in a ton of TV. So she's been on The Practice, Rescue Me, Law in Order, Veep, okay, one of our favorite shows. And it seems like she gets on pretty well with Shonda Rhimes because she is both in Scandal and Grace Anatomy. In fact, I play, I think she plays, I I'm not familiar with the show that hasn't been one of my go-tos, but I think she plays Meredith Gray's mom in the show. All right. Uh Ellis Gray. So in any case, she's she is very busy as well, as all these other actors are. Okay, moving on to Donald Lee, who plays Eddie Lee in the film. I really loved some of his credits that I saw. So I we're gonna have to go back to this one. He's in One Crazy Summer.
SPEAKER_04:Interesting.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah. Okay. So we'll have to take a look at that one. He's in the follow-up to the fugitive U.S. Marshals. So he's in that one. Which yeah. I mean, I love Tommy Lee Jones, but like there was a magic.
SPEAKER_04:We could start a whole nother podcast just called Unnecessary Sequels.
SPEAKER_02:Very true. Yeah.
SPEAKER_04:Um, sorry, go ahead.
SPEAKER_02:No, I was just gonna say he's a bit part in The Avengers.
SPEAKER_04:Interesting. Yeah. Which the the original, the first one. I believe so. Yeah, okay. I really liked his his role in this movie because like Wang was was a he had some comedic elements, but he's kind of like more of a straight player. He's like trying to save his fiancee, and his uncle, who I think like runs or works in the restaurant that they kind of all meet at. Yeah, he is kind of like with like assisting him. And Eddie is like, he understands all of like the the old lore that Wang and his uncle talk about, but he's also very much just like able to recognize how ridiculous a lot of it is. Yeah. And when Jack Burton, I think at one point says like he feels like he doesn't belong, he's like, You don't.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, I really like this character in particular. I he's probably outside of maybe Gracie, like the one that I kind of personally jived with the most. I liked seeing him on screen. I liked all of his scenes. Um, so yeah, he did great. And then also he also was for a time on Days of Our Lives. Interesting. So a lot of people, a lot of these people do um that kind of work. So I just want to give a quick shout out. Uh, because we've already gone through just like there's so many people who are involved in this film, but I want to give a shout out to three individuals. Carter Wong.
SPEAKER_04:Oh, yeah. I was hoping you're gonna do this. Yes. Yeah. First of all, look up Carter Wong's uh IMDB page. I implore you, please. Because his he has possibly the best IMDB headshot, body shot that I've ever seen for an IMDB page. It's phenomenal. It's just him flexing with no shirt on.
SPEAKER_02:So kind of along with that, he plays Thunder and this. So Carter Wong, he plays Thunder. Peter Kuang, he plays Rain.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, I always think of uh Rain as the jumpy sword guy. He's the guy that can jump and fly through the air for like 40 seconds or so at the end of the movie. Long hair, uh swords. That's uh I mean, really, it's like the guy who inflates and blows up, that's thunder, and then it's the guy who eventually would become the mortal combat character known as Raiden. In this movie, he is he's lightning.
SPEAKER_02:Okay, he's James Pax. James Pax. Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_04:And those are the three storms.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah. I I just before so I was researching the film before I saw the film, and then when I saw what their credited names were, I was like, oh, that's that's awesome. Raiden Lightning and Yeah, I love that.
SPEAKER_04:But when they first show up in the movie is when you first realized, like, oh, what what is this?
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, it's a little I mean, there's just a lot happening.
SPEAKER_04:They have the most unnecessary move of all time where they coordinate this move where they each pull out like this kind of like short curved knife sword type thing, and then they do a front flip. When they land the front flip, they release them and they just take out a total of three people. There's an army facing them, and they're like, let's go through this whole process. We'll take down these first three guys, and then we're really gonna get it started. I just thought that was uh a hilarious exhibition of their power.
SPEAKER_02:It's really fun to see you get so excited about this movie.
SPEAKER_04:Like the guy just like he just transported himself by holding on to a bolt of lightning, and he's like, I'm gonna stab this one guy. I love it. He could have gone uh full Thor, God of Thunder. Sure. Anyways.
SPEAKER_02:Anyway. Okay, so that rounds out. Um, for now the people that uh that were in front of the camera who who were in this film. Moving on to film synopsis, and as we do, I it's a short one. It's a short one. Uh, let me just read it off. This is what we pull from IMDB. A rough and tumble trucker helps rescue his friend's fiance from an ancient sorcerer in a supernatural battle beneath Chinatown.
SPEAKER_04:Look, that might be one of the most accurate synopsis descriptions we've ever seen. Because what I like is that it says he helps rescue.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah.
SPEAKER_04:He is he is the helper in this movie.
SPEAKER_02:He is the helper. Yeah. And I think given just how much happens in this movie, and um I would say trying to do like a one-sentence synopsis of this one is like that's a that's a big ask.
SPEAKER_04:They they performed admirably.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, you have to wrangle a lot, and I think that they did a really great job of really um kind of whittling it down to its core. So, so good on whoever wrote this. Um as far as montages go, I don't know if there's anything that really shows like because this all happens in like a pretty quick amount of time. I mean, how many days do you think pass?
SPEAKER_04:I mean, it might be like within a 24-hour span of time, actually. Although the the closest you get is the the intro with him driving through the hills and over the golden gate. And then like just kind of giving us this like atmosphere of the Chinatown area.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, giving us a sense of where we are.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, you see people like he's like unloading whatever his cargo was, and you see like shop owners moving stuff around, and he's you know, they're drinking and playing some kind of game gambling. So there's like a montage leading up to all that, but that's really it.
SPEAKER_02:That's it. That's it. Yeah, I think you nailed it. And um, and so yeah, it's it's really effective in giving you a sense of where we are, the fact that we're like in San Francisco specifically, the story's gonna be in the Chinatown area, um, kind of seeing what life is like uh for that area.
SPEAKER_04:Takes place in two areas, really. This Chinatown area that you see during that opening montage, and then an airport. Like you go to the airport to really get the story moving. Um, I don't know what airport they were in where there were like no other people really around, the parking lot was pretty empty. That never happens.
SPEAKER_02:Maybe maybe now, maybe now it happens. But um, so yeah, I mean, as far as you know Well, you know what? Now that I'm thinking about it, because we we do broach this with Owen. I was I'm trying to think, you know, when we were talking with Owen, I don't know if you really got a chance to talk about, you know, how you we already explained that I saw this really for the first time a couple nights ago.
unknown:Yeah.
SPEAKER_04:Um so the first time that that I saw this movie, I no, I don't think we discussed that. We talk um kind of about how Owen first saw it. Um I don't think I remember seeing this in the movie theater. I remember uh watching it probably as a rental and then on like cable or whatever. And what I remember watching it is just how like how annoyed my dad was at some of the special effects, like in particular towards the the end fight when Wang is fighting uh Rain and they're like both flying, they jump once, and they're just like back and forth sword fighting, and that was the moment where he's like, I'm done. He just he got he made it that far. He made it that far with all the ridiculousness of the movie, but at that moment he just checked out mentally. Fortunately, it was almost over. So that's kind of what I remember of like the first time I saw it with him. Uh I remember watching it a lot with uh my friend Jason. We would watch it, we would do that little move that like the good guys would do. I'm doing it right now. Okay, yeah, yeah. Like you have the little hand similar. I'm on your side.
SPEAKER_02:Kind of like a little bit of an L kind of looking type.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, that was a running joke with us for uh quite a while. And I think even if I did it right now, he would know like oh big trouble in the China. Aww. So that's those are some of my uh earlier memories of it.
SPEAKER_02:That that's great. And I I don't have anything to share because you first saw it two days ago. I saw it two days ago. All right. Well, should we just uh jump into our conversation with Owen then? Yeah, let's do it. Let's do it. All right, we are here with our good friend Owen Croak, who is also a fantastic feature screenwriter, TV writer, and welcome, Owen. Thank you so much for being on the show.
SPEAKER_01:Well, thank you so much for having me.
SPEAKER_02:We are super excited to have you. Derek, I Derek has been what what's the phrase? Biting at the chomping at the bit.
SPEAKER_04:I've been really excited.
SPEAKER_01:Champing at the bit.
SPEAKER_02:Is that what it is?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_02:Um, I wonder why I always thought chomp, because you know, you chomp on any in any case. It's true. Uh okay. Big trouble in Little China. I don't know if you knew this ON, but uh we, you know, so we screen all of our films ahead of doing the podcast. Uh this is next to Blood Sport. And I you can maybe sense a theme here because this was Derek's pick. Um, the first time that I had seen the film in its entirety the other night.
SPEAKER_04:Last night.
SPEAKER_02:Last night. Yeah. And so I have opinions about what I experienced.
SPEAKER_04:And and I'm gonna say that it's probably a different experience seeing it for the first time in 2020 versus something that I remember seeing a very long time ago. And yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_02:Well, excellent segue, because that's exactly what I was about to ask Owen.
SPEAKER_03:What?
SPEAKER_02:What? So, as we usually do with our guests, I was very curious if you do have memories of like your first time seeing this and and how old you were and what your first impression was of the film.
SPEAKER_01:So that's actually it it's it's funny that that's where you start because you know, this is an 80s movie podcast, and one of the reasons why I picked this was I felt that it was very indicative of that time of filmmaking. Um because it was very much we were like early adopters of VCRs in our household, and early adop and like had cable, and this is a movie that just lived in those places. And I feel um, because I I'm sure you'll talk about it, it it was not a big success at the box office. Um uh in fact, I think they talk about that they thought the studio kind of buried it.
SPEAKER_04:Um they didn't really know how to market it, they didn't know what like what is this.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, that's actually it's really interesting that you're bringing that up because that's uh huge um similarity with the last film that we covered, The Princess Fride. Um, for the say exact same reasons. They just really didn't know how to market that film. And yeah, from what I read, same thing with this one, they didn't really know where to go with it. And even though I guess the initial screenings of it were really positive, and both Russell and Carpenter thought it was going to be a big hit, it was not.
SPEAKER_04:They put a lot more energy towards uh aliens, right?
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, that came out later.
unknown:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Well, this actually I I went back and looked, I couldn't believe that this came out on a July 4th weekend.
SPEAKER_02:I don't think I realized that. That's crazy.
SPEAKER_01:July, July 2nd, 1986. Uh but um, so yeah, this is a movie that was just I couldn't tell you with the first how old I was when I saw it. I would have been mid-single digits, and it was just that this was something that was like regularly in the rotation on HBO, and my aunt who bought like a VCR was six thousand dollars because she had a high pressure job where they paid her that kind of money. Um like taped it off of HBO, and so we just like had that for years, and this was it was what sticks with me most is how right up my lane this type of from like an early age for this type of like comedy and genre entertainment was, and that was not something you saw a lot of at that time, it's happening more now, and I realized because I had not watched this in a number of years, and I I went and got the collector's edition steelbook Blu-ray to get the entire experience before submitting.
SPEAKER_05:I appreciate that. I appreciate that.
SPEAKER_01:Um, and I sort of sat down with this really, and I was like, yeah, because I was like, oh, you know, this was a fun movie. I don't know if it was any any any big shakes, and I and I still see its limitations, but also I realized just how much of like my creative persona is directly lined up with this story that is entirely a just a yarn. There's Kurt Russell, Jack Burton, has no real character arc in this. And I think that the running joke ironic joke is that he has no reason to be there. He's just a complete complete doof who's in the middle of this.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah. I mean, he does uh he does spoilers, kill David Le Pen.
SPEAKER_01:He he does, and I've got my notebook in front of me with this. Um I actually like wrote down with three exclamation points that underlined it's all on the reflexes, that's what we're paying off.
SPEAKER_02:That's actually yeah, that's yep, that nailed it, that's it, that was the whole payoff.
SPEAKER_04:It was great, it was great foreshadowing, yes. I mean, like he always told his ex-wife, it's all he he never drives faster than you can see, and it's all in the reflexes.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. Oh, so like that this was so that like that like just sense of fun in a movie in a in the making of a film, and like going back and looking at this. All these guys, I whether they thought they were like making a somebody that was gonna be a big hit or not, it's just so clear that they are having a lot of fun. Um, like John Carpenter, who is pretty well into the middle of his career at this point, seems to be having fun. Kurt Russell, who um like reading some of the material and watching it, seemed to have been much more self-conscious about his place in the business at that point in time. Um seemed to be ha having fun with it. All of the Asian actors just seem to be having a blast. I mean, we could talk about individual people. I'm sure you're gonna talk about a lot about James Fogg, who was uh a character actor that I've always you know found to be like the guy who just brings it, and going back and looking at him in this and seeing him not only do a great villain, but also like lay a lot of pipe with a lot of complicated exposition and just like getting it right out, even with like a hundred-year-old man old age makeup on. It's just like, you know, guys like that do not get a lot of accolades in the business, but damn does he deserve it.
SPEAKER_02:I'm I'm so impressed with him for a lot of reasons. I mean, honestly, probably of anybody in the film. And you know, as I typically do ahead of like when we um speak to our special guest, you know, we kind of go over like the people who are part of the film, and I I can't believe that he has over 400 acting credits on IMDB. Like I felt over because you know, we try to like highlight some of the more memorable roles of anybody we talk about. I was like, I don't even know where to start. Like, I don't I don't know what to do with this guy because it's so massive and impressive.
SPEAKER_04:And James Hong, the podcast.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, uh seriously, like uh we we could absolutely do a podcast on him, and um I was really impressed.
SPEAKER_01:He's got all of those credits, um, but I was like thinking about this. He's a very talented actor. Not only has those credits, I gather that he started like doing USO shows in World War II.
SPEAKER_02:Okay.
SPEAKER_01:Um so yeah, like real, like a lot of long history in the business, and but so much of it was like being the what is not the waiter, but um the yeah, the mater D in like the Seinfeld Chinese restaurant episode. Yes, where he's there as kind of a you know a joke Asian. Um and the one thing I feel obligated to address about this movie um is it is a movie made by Caucasians, largely for Caucasians, that traffics in some very damaging Asian stereotypes. I not in a way that I feel is malicious, though it's not for me to say that. Um but it is very much of that piece. Um and Lopan is very much the Fu Manchu type character to the point where he's like preying on white women, and when he preys on Asian women, it's because they have white features. So uh, you know, that's an ugly thing, and I don't think you can separate that from it. Uh, it has to be addressed, and it's not for me to excuse it. Uh that said, this was a much meatier part than I feel like almost anything that actor had gotten to do in his career, and he just seems to relish every minute of it. And going back and looking at you know, some of the interviews he did, this seems to be something that he feels like was the highlight of his career because he got so much more to do, and and and you know, that's that's kind of the double-edged sword of the way race is in Hollywood and has been for a lot of years. So you know, you can't you can't take the ugliness out of it, but it is appreciated that so many actors um got a chance to shine in ways that they did not in other places in their careers. So, you know a mixed bag. A mixed bag on that front.
SPEAKER_04:One of the things that we've that we've like, I guess realized, but we probably already knew going through a lot of these 80s movies is that there are few, if any, of them where watching them now in 2020, you don't realize like, oh, yeah. That we use the word problematic. It's a lot. We use that word a lot. A lot.
SPEAKER_01:Well, it's funny. Yeah, it's like looking back at 2020, certainly. What was funny, I didn't realize until I like watching some of the special features and looking up on this, I gather there was some pushback even in 1986 about this. Um like there were some Asian uh representation, Asian rights groups that you know really tried to come down on Carpenter in the studio a bit, and uh Carpenter in particular does not seem to have reacted well to that. Um but yeah, it and so even at the time, I think there was kind of a sense that this was pushing it a little bit. Um at the same time, I don't know if you're gonna do Remo Williams on this podcast, but I credit them for actually have I credit them for actually having Asian actors.
SPEAKER_04:I know what I know what you mean. And uh it that movie came up, I don't know because it that movie if if Big Trouble in Little China was not a box office success and it's kind of like this niche cult classic, then I don't even know what that would make Remo Williams The Adventure Begins, because it's even less well known than than um Big Trouble in Little China.
SPEAKER_02:If we do that movie, you'll be our guest for it, Owen.
SPEAKER_01:I don't I don't know if we want to do that to you, but yeah, that's something I could definitely tell you. I have not watched it all the way through. It's just somebody like again getting back to like how this movie like had a life and how it was discovered. So many of these movies, they were just like on in the background. And I think it says a lot about you could talk about whether it's good or bad, but movies don't have a life today, I feel like, the way they did 30 years ago. And I and I feel like this the 80s was a a sort of niche time for that because video had happened, because cable was happening in a serious way, where you know, um I'm sure 20th Century Fox was going around to little syndicated stations all over the country whoever was doing this, and what they would do is they said, Well, you can have Empire Strikes Back, um, but you need to buy the rights to these 50 other movies that we don't know what to do with, and one of them was Big Trouble of Little China. So at four o'clock on a Sunday, you could turn on you know WPIX in New York, and Big Trouble of Little China was on, and something you never would have seen in the theater, it's like, oh wow, this is a weird little thing, huh? And you know, the Netflix alb algorithm, I don't think gives you that. Uh right. So the discovery is something I feel like we've kind of lost, and like obviously, I don't want to be an old fart here.
SPEAKER_02:Um, I agree with you. I I think what you brought up to me, first of all, I completely agree in terms of films having a life beyond the initial release and perhaps the claim that they get. It totally 100%. I think you're right about the reasons um in terms of the way that people consumed media and how much media was being created for consumption then versus now and how it was distributed. Yeah. I mean, actually, you know, I I mean we could have a whole conversation. I think it would be fascinating to talk about the differences, but that is something that I think about a lot about, you know, films I mean, certainly past 2000. As good as they might be, they just don't have that life that keeps going.
SPEAKER_04:They get lost.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, they get lost. And I think part of it is because of the way that we consume and also the volume of what we have now. There's just too much. And and and I I mean that makes it sound as if I am I have negative feelings about that. I think it's fantastic that creatives now have there's so many more opportunities. Yeah, yeah. So I don't it's not that it's it's a negative thing per se, it is what it is. And I appreciate that, you know, people can do YouTube and they can do all these other little things that um, you know, back in the day, if you didn't have the backing of a production company or studio, you're just out of luck. Uh so I think it's wonderful in a lot of ways, but I also think that it um, you know, just adds to the whole uh people get overwhelmed, people have lack of focus, they have something new and shiny to take their attention away from something else. Um so you know, we might have something. This is not the example really that I want to bring up, but you know, like Tiger King, it was the only thing that people were talking about for about two weeks. And so we watched it. So we we watched it. Um, but then you know, already that's out of it's out of the consciousness of people. I mean, it's there.
SPEAKER_04:They're gonna be making a scripted series.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, that's right. Yeah, Rob Lowe, is that who it is?
SPEAKER_04:And Kate McKinnon as Carol Baskins.
SPEAKER_02:Oh, really? Yep, interesting. So sorry, sorry to uh yeah, to to tangent that away from you, Owen.
SPEAKER_01:Um, but I totally agree. Sorry. No, there's no. And I think it actually speaks to another thing that kind of amazed me when I went back and looked at this, was in addition to there being so much, there's a lot more of movies and entertainment that is less than a million dollars budget that could be shot in the room of somebody's house, and there's a lot more of 200 million dollars. We've got a new Star Wars and and Avengers franchise going on. Um again, this you know, I think the budget was something like 20, 25 million dollars for this. Yeah, I looked it up, it translates to a little less than sixty million dollars um today. I cannot imagine anybody anywhere putting up sixty million dollars to make a movie like this. Um and you look at this, and I mean, I was just the production design on this, just when I went back and looked at it's like, oh my god, the there is again, it's not it's it's not Lawrence of Arabia. Okay. But it's like, wow, there's a lot of attention to detail going on here. They put together some amazing sets, uh, you know, some of the locations they shot in, certainly, you know, the effects work um is what it is, but it's also pretty uh pretty good for the time and being a mid-level type of film. And that's another thing that again, I don't you know, things change, things pass, but it was a reminder of a of the type of filmmaking that just does not quite exist in the same way. And some of that's gone to TV, some of that, you know, you'll see a lot more money spent on a limited TV series than I think any of us would have imagined um in our more formative years. Um but yeah, I so like going into this thinking, oh, this is a fun little trifle. Um it's still that, but man, there's a lot of charming stuff here and a lot of um pretty great work um done by the people involved. We haven't even well, we we've talked about a lot of things, but the writing on this, um primarily by uh W.D. Richter, who uh I know uh as uh also the director of uh Buckaroo Bonza Across the Eighth Dimension. Oh movie! Yeah. And so I think I think he went right from the failure at that to uh wanting to to taking this on to for a rewrite for hire. Um and so just sort of that fun uh sensibility and the attention to uh weirdness and to fun little uh banter and moments. Um that going and and Carpenter and and Russell sort of getting that entirely and going with that style and leaning into it uh every step of the way. Um and again, I think leaning into it according to them to the point the studio just not only had no idea to market it, but I think act became actively hostile to it at a certain point.
SPEAKER_04:I I think they did. I mean, there were there was a lot of butting heads between Carpenter and the studio had at that time that I think ended up having uh repercussions as far as how much Carpenter ended up working with them in the future.
SPEAKER_01:Oh well, it's it's it's so I think the the moment that that I take away is um they did the first screening for the head of uh production at Fox, and he watched it, and he watched the whole thing, and then the lights came up. He's like, well, uh uh Jack Burton doesn't seem like to be much of a hero. He doesn't really do anything well.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_01:And I guess they had to go back and shoot the opening with um Egg Shen, uh Victor Wong, and uh another favorite 80s and 90s character actor, Jerry Harden, um which has nothing to do with the rest of the movie, does not make sense in the context of the rest of the movie. To the point where I was watching it, it's like, wow, they have this framing device, but they only have the front end of the frame. And that was entirely because they were forced to shoot it, because they they wanted one of the characters to say what a hero Kurt Russell was in order to sell it to the audience.
SPEAKER_04:And I might uh argue that if they had just started the movie with him in his truck the way that it starts immediately after the opening scene, it honestly would have been better. It would have been at the worst, it would have been fine. It wouldn't have been there would be no difference for me. But I uh I I like Kurt Russell, Jack Burton, as being this like bumbling, not actually the hero that kind of contributes, but he's really just the sidekick throughout the movie.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, no, I I think he's he's you know, he's he's the sidekick, but let's be clear, um he very much gets to have all the fun, all the most fun in this movie. For sure. With yeah with the possible with the possible exception of like the big fight where they knock him out for it. Um just so that we kind of I think because they acknowledge both we can't have Kurt Russell up on wires uh fighting with these guys.
SPEAKER_04:Um that earlier, uh that earlier fight also when he like he tries to get his knife out and he flings it across the room, runs over to get it. By the time he gets it, Wang has already defeated all of the enemies. And he just kind of like jumps out like, ha, everyone's done. So they play that joke a couple times.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, and and again, you you know, Anna, yeah, Anna, you're a writer, I'm a writer. I feel like so much of the feedback that we get is well, you need to build up the motivation um for your lead character. You need to you need to build them up as you know what the what they're great at, why it's so amazing to watch them. And there's a lot of truth in that, but also I feel like movies like this were a reminder of a sensibility where no, no, sometimes it's fun to watch somebody that's out of his depth just be out of his depth for 90 minutes or two hours and see how that plays out.
SPEAKER_02:Um I mean you bring up a good point because I I'll admit that like in viewing it, I you know, and kind of kind of looking at it with that critical eye because of what you just said, in terms of being a writer and seeing this story unfold and seeing character arc or lack thereof. And I'm just really curious, and and this kind of ties into your earlier point about the budget of the film. Do you think that it really was John Carpenter who because I I I didn't even know this is this is how unfamiliar with this film that I was. I did not know that he was the director of the film. So I'm just curious because of all these things that we've talked about, where maybe it was a bigger budget than really was necessary, although it did have great production design. And you know, there are kind of these like story elements that are somewhat absent from it. I mean, do you think that had it been anybody else attached, that it wouldn't have been a go? Or do you or do you have any thoughts on that at all? Because like that is kind of what I was thinking. It was like this suddenly got made, and I'm not I'm not trying to throw shade at the film. I promise I'm not. But like it it got made because of John Carpenter. And I guess probably also Kurt Russell signing on to it.
SPEAKER_01:Well, actually, I think um, and and Kurt Russell talks about this a lot, that he was he was not really a movie star at this point in time. A lot of the things that we associate with his career had happened, but they had not, they didn't have a lot of prestige. Like, I think the biggest thing that he was in before this was uh overboard, and overboard was sort of a sleeper hit, like it made a serious amount of money, but it was not like oh a hundred million dollars opening weekend sort of money. It just like kept building and building. Um and I think the story on this is one that I recall where the original writers wrote this sort of hybrid cowboy San Francisco. Yeah, it was like a western gas. Yeah, it wasn't even a western because it was San Francisco, like in the gas lamp era.
SPEAKER_05:Okay, okay.
SPEAKER_01:Um but it definitely was the hero was a cowboy riding into San Francisco um and stumbling into this. Uh so I think somebody bought that script, and then I always get fascinated by this. They bought it, and then really realizes, oh, this is kind of crappy. Well, we'll shel this for a while. And so this was somebody that was sort of sitting around for a while, and I don't know the full piece of like how Carpenter got it. Um, but I think Carpenter ended up bringing Kurt Russell in because if you look at the names that they I think they say they wanted for this, it's like so ridiculous. I think like Clint Eastwood is on the list.
SPEAKER_04:Yes, yeah, I did see that. Yeah, I I honestly could not really even imagine Clint Eastwood in that kind of like Hamish kind of role.
SPEAKER_02:Super campy.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, because Kurt Russell had to be like really aware of here's what my character is, and I'm really gonna embrace it. Yeah, and he does. I don't think Clint Eastwood would have been nearly as entertaining in that sort of thing.
SPEAKER_02:That is something that um for sure I give Russell huge props for, is that he absolutely threw himself into this. Yeah, I mean, it um you know, it's meant to be camp, it's meant to be silly, it's meant to just be fun. But had he not really committed to that character, I feel like it would have been unwatchable.
SPEAKER_04:Because if you kind of even get any kind of undertone of him, well, I mean no, it's it's interesting that you bring up his portrayal of Jack and how that impacted the movie overall, because famously there was talk of either a remake or a sequel starring Dwayne the Rock Johnson. And I wonder if he was playing if if he was just straight up playing kind of that same Jack Burton character, do you think he would be able to pull it off?
SPEAKER_02:Or do you think um well I'll throw it to you first, Owen. What do you think?
SPEAKER_01:So I think you're hitting on something in that there's no vanity in this performance. Yes, like that's every way of putting it. He absolutely leaned leaned into what was in the script. It's like, oh, this guy's kind of a doof, so I'm gonna play it that way. Um and I think the rock does some of that, but then you also hear about he's sort of very mindful of the brand of uh The Rock. And I don't think this is a character where, at least as it is now in my mind, is something that's really about a brand. It's about you know servicing the character in the script. So I remember I you know, I know they talked about a remake a few years ago. Um, it doesn't seem like anything's happening with that. This doesn't seem like something it again, it's of its time for so many reasons. Um it doesn't seem like something that you're gonna get a lot out of trying to do it again.
SPEAKER_04:Um I I agree. Other other than there being a um like the the effects have obviously come a long way, but I would argue that the practical effects work in this movie in a way that I I don't know that like heavy use of CGI would really make it a better film. And all of the things that we've talked about that that would be a real issue today with respect to race, that would uh it wouldn't really be the same movie from a lot of perspectives, and in some ways maybe that would be better, but I think in a lot of other ways it's like w why? Like it's like poltergeist all over again.
SPEAKER_02:I have uh two two quick thoughts. I mean, in the most simple answer I have is I feel like okay, if this hypothetical in the rock uh came on for a reboot or a sequel or whatever, it just wouldn't be as much fun. Like real simply, because I don't think he could give himself to the role in the same way.
SPEAKER_04:Uh tooth fairy, right?
SPEAKER_02:That's true, but never saw that. Um, and then secondly, so I'm gonna say something a little controversial in in entertaining this hypothetical, it actually makes me think of what I have seen of the trailer of the new Ghostbusters.
SPEAKER_03:Okay.
SPEAKER_02:Because, you know, very similar scenario. Like we have this like classic film from the 80s, and it's not nearly in the level of camp, but like in terms of the level of special effects and just the silliness of it and the whole bit, everything I saw from the trailer, and maybe it just like wasn't cut well, maybe it's not portraying the film accurately, it like seemed to take itself so seriously, and I was like, uh, it's not gonna be fun. And so I go ahead.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, no, that's another one where I feel like it's something that we've lost in our storytelling. Where, and and I I I heard John Hodgman actually say this the first time there's no reason for Peter Venkman, um Bill Murray to be in that movie. He has no goal, yeah, he has no goal, he doesn't seem to want anything, he's just hanging out and going along with whatever his friends do, and we just don't seem to abide that anymore. I don't think I'm not saying it's a bad thing, I don't I don't fully understand it. Um and and I feel like you lose some of the fun of that, wherein, and you know, people talk about Ghostbusters, and I listened to that episode because it was a I I thought you guys did a great job with it. Like so much, so much of that was these characters in this situation and being a very New York movie, and and and very specific jokes about living in New York at that time, um, that we don't seem to we we don't do that level of quirk in our big our big releases anymore.
SPEAKER_02:Um that's actually a really great way of putting it, and specifically a great word and with the quirk. And I I totally agree with you. And I mean, I don't mean to just like wax nostalgic about 80s films, but I do feel like But it's basically what we do. It is what we do. And I just yeah, there's you know, as much as I might become critical of a film for certain, you know, potholes or lack of character growth or whatever the case may be. I do agree with you that uh, you know, several decades removed back in the 80s, there was a little bit more of a leniency and acceptance that like, okay, we we don't have to have everything be so strictly motivated because it kind of takes away from the magic and the fun. And I I know I'm overusing that word, but it's I don't know how else to put it. Like it just takes away from kind of the lightness and and the silliness, like sometimes silly is mutually exclusive from you know, uh motivated. So it yeah, I don't I don't know, but that that and I don't mean to throw shade or get too um too off track with the whole Ghostbusters thing, but that's why I do agree with what it seems both of you are saying, and that this is a film of its era, it really can't be it's lightning in a bottle, it can't really be made again.
SPEAKER_04:And anything can be made again, but I strongly advise they don't.
SPEAKER_02:Right.
unknown:Right.
SPEAKER_01:Well, I think that's kind of the paradox of it, because you know, we could say we don't want to wax nostalgic. That's very much what our culture does. I mean, the reason that we're talking about that a remake being baddied about is because it's the property that had a name and somebody wanted to mine that for whatever uh they could get out of it, which is fine, but I think what you're getting at is it's we sort of take the wrong things away. The story here is a good thing to sort of hang a lot of fun moments on, but the story is kind of not much of anything. It's you know, evil wizard, you know, steal kidnaps a maiden and we gotta get her back. Oh, okay. Um, it's everything, it's all the it's all the character and uh you know, again, the quirk that happens around it that makes it interesting, and we kind of take the plot without taking the rest of it. Um so I think go ahead.
SPEAKER_04:I I was just gonna say it's pretty self-contained. Like, there's you have you know the evil wizard who was cursed a long time ago and is defeated, and like evil is basically defeated by the end of this movie.
SPEAKER_01:So as far as a you're forgetting the monster on the truck.
SPEAKER_04:No, no, I'm not I'm not forgetting that uh walkie monster.
SPEAKER_02:And you know what's so funny about that monster, even though I had never seen this film in its entirety, honestly, I probably just saw bits and pieces from when I would see Derek watching it at some point. That monster, I was like, oh, I know that monster. Yeah. Like that, I don't know how that seeped into my subconscious.
SPEAKER_04:I'm just not worried about that monster. Like, I'm I'm pretty sure that Jack Burton will be okay. He'll say something like, what the hell? or Yes, sir, the check is in the mail, or somehow, like, you can't, there's no way you could build a whole sequel around this like rogue monster that hung on that hitched a ride on his uh on his big rig.
SPEAKER_01:No, absolutely not. And I think getting back to your earlier point, Anna, one of the reasons that I don't think you could make this again is so much of it was there was a script that was okay, someone came in uh to rewrite it, really uh put their own stamp on it. Then John Carpenter came in, Kurt Russell came in, uh, the production people came in, and they were all sort of just left alone to make this weird movie, and nobody actually stopped looking at what they were doing until the lights came up in the studio head realized, oh my god, what did we spend our money on?
SPEAKER_04:Can you give me like a 30-second intro? Right.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, and so if you like spent$100 million or$200 million on a remake, somebody's gonna be watching what you're doing every day, and they're gonna be focus grouping every little bit of it. And I'm not I'm not shading that, okay? I'm I there is a lot.
SPEAKER_02:Boy, we're we're kind of coming after the rock.
SPEAKER_01:I that was all Derek. I'm fine with you. I'm I'm fine with you, sir.
SPEAKER_02:I love him in Titan games, yeah.
SPEAKER_04:Titan games love him in a lot of things. I just uh didn't love much of Skyscraper.
SPEAKER_01:I just love him in reality. I got no qualms with it. Yeah, I love him in reality, yeah. He's a good dude. He can eat his 27 salmon fillets every day and and live a wonderful life, whatever the hell it is he does. I I don't want to fight him. He's a good dude.
SPEAKER_02:He's a good dude. Yeah. All right. Okay, so like diving a little bit deeper into Carpenter. So, you know, I'm I'm uh again, I don't know how I had that like blind spot that he was part of this film. Um, I am familiar generally with his work. He to me is one of those like annoyingly talented people where he could kind of just do everything on his film. If he could duplicate himself, he really could just do the whole film on his own. Um, and as far as the music is concerned, I definitely could pick up. I was like, okay, this is John Carpenter who who did the music. But also, and this is something that kind of ties in with uh like a common thing Derek and I were bringing up when we were watching it last. When I was like listening to the music, you tell me if you didn't get this. I got a also really strong first terminator.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, there were some times I think where yeah, yeah, I got it.
SPEAKER_02:And I'm not saying he's ripping anybody off, but I kind of got like, and that's something that I started noticing about the film.
SPEAKER_03:Fuck you, James Cameron.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, I'm not, no, really, truly not. But um kind of got that vibe. And also I was noticing, whether it was intentional or not, like a lot of connections to like other films. Um, I mean, you know what I'm talking about, Derek.
SPEAKER_04:Like we're elements, yeah. We were just kind of like creating a list of elements that this movie like has a bit of Dracula. Or other story, yeah. Yeah, a bit of Dracula, a bit of Goonies. Like there are all these other like you know, stories or movies where uh it just yeah, it was interesting.
SPEAKER_02:It was interesting to kind of see, like sometimes you know, you can't even you can't extricate the influences. I mean, everything's kind of happening at the same time in the same decade, but outside of 80s influences did you ever notice Owen? Like that was something I picked up on right away that this was very similar to kind of like a Dracula story.
SPEAKER_01:Oh, yeah, I I think that's kind of common. Um well, not I think that there was a a great tradition of pastiche, um where you know, particularly when you're turning out uh entertainment on a pretty regular basis and like that studio assembly line, I think it's it's easy to say, oh it's this meets this. So there absolutely is the the Dracula element of it. Um I think Carpenter also, and I I'm a great admirer of his talent. Uh a lot of horror movies aren't necessarily my thing. Um but so but he's certainly one of those guys that that likes to reference his own influences. I think um Halloween 3 is a movie that's that's had an extended life that I don't fully understand, but I a lot of people talk about the fact that movie That one I don't need to see again.
SPEAKER_02:Like, I mean Derek so Derek is a horror guy. I wasn't necessarily horror horror gal, but in hooking up with him.
SPEAKER_04:Well, to be fair, like I like some of the uh classic horrors, but I'm pretty there there are some, I guess, subgenres that I will that I don't have much interest in. But I like some of the classic thriller slash horror. Some of the slasher movies are fun just because they're so like comical with how but but the ones that get too serious or are too intense, I'm not not gonna do a salt, I'm not gonna do a hostile. I'm not into like the torture porn stuff, basically.
SPEAKER_01:That that's I could do I could do a whole multi-part um you know 80s movie montage spin-off with you guys just on the Friday the 13th and the nightmare in El Street films. So those are movies that the films themselves in a vacuum, I don't know that I like. I love that they exist because the fact that and again this is a tangent, but between 1980 and 1989, they made eight Friday the 13th films, and that was just like a license to print money for that span of time, these this thing that started with I think$700,000 and Kevin Bacon and a couple of and a couple of other people like in the woods in upstate New York.
SPEAKER_05:Yep.
SPEAKER_01:Um again, it's a whole culture around those little films that blew up and became um things, you know, just became these cultural touchstones for a brief period of time that we keep going back to, and you just again we talk about this, you just can't recapture the I don't know if you call it magic, but whatever the moment in the zeitgeist was that that was happening. So that's like the cultural aspect of it is much more fascinating to me. And all the work, um, if you ever read about that, went into those how those movies happened, and uh New Line was known as the house that Freddie built for the longest time because that was the movie that just made them into a real studio. The fact that they got until they got absorbed by Warner Brothers. Um But I think what you were hitting on earlier with uh the music and is kind of um illustrative of this point in that every yeah, everything of the 80s sort of the 80s oozes out of it too. So that kind that that synthesizer sound was very big, and I think what what Carpenter excels at was within the parameter he was able to be creative and make music that was not your favorite thing, but at least interesting to listen to. And and so you can see him do that well and say, okay, he's doing that well, and then there are other 80s movies that were tied into that synth that just did not do it well. Um I don't know if you how much you're into uh 80s Michael Cain.
SPEAKER_02:Um, but there's this That's a really interesting question.
SPEAKER_01:Well, there's this movie, there's this there's this movie called Educating Rita, which is sort of like um a Pygmalion or My Fair Lady sort of story, and that has the absolute worst synthesizer soundtrack of anything you will ever hear on what is supposed to be this like sort of light uh romantic comedy.
SPEAKER_04:Um I was gonna have to look up. I gotta look up the video. Yeah, we have a lot of things to be looking at. Yeah, that the title sounds familiar. I know I've I've heard of it. I don't think I've ever seen it though.
SPEAKER_02:I just don't think Michael Cain and Synthesizer in the same film.
SPEAKER_01:That's the thing because the synthesizer is so overbearing and out of place with this film, but it was like, oh, the synthesizer, it's so cheap to do a soundtrack, let's just do it. And again, Carpenter was was a person who would say, Okay, I could make this sound like music and not just sound like something coming out of a keyboard of a store.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:Well, okay, so one thing that you're sorry, sorry to interrupt, but like I'm so curious about something that you brought up. So when you were talking about these other horror franchises, and again, I don't mean to get too far off from big big trouble, but um you know, I think we've seen both with the Friday movies, with the Friday the 13th movies, they've definitely crossed over into camp for sure. Would we all agree with that?
SPEAKER_04:With that? I don't know that they ever had a crossover. I think what we consider camp maybe has evolved, but if you I n could never take any of them seriously.
SPEAKER_01:I mean, that's it. And that's kind of the arc the argument that I never get about those films is like what people complain. Oh, I don't like that that Freddie Kruger became campy. It's like what I'm sorry, you want this very serious movie about a child molester that seemed to have access to unlimited demonic powers that uses it to kill teenagers. Not the hardest thing in the world to do.
SPEAKER_02:Okay, you're both you're both right. But do you think though, when you think about the three majors, so you think about the Halloween movies and you think about the Freddie movies and then the Friday 13th movies, I feel like of those three, Halloween still has tried to maintain some semblance of like groundedness?
SPEAKER_04:They they have, I think.
SPEAKER_01:Um so Halloween Halloween definitely tried to do that. Um again, I'm not the biggest fan of these movies, so I don't know that I'm a target demographic for it. Uh the main thing that I always like latch on to with the Halloween movies is the Donald Pleasants Dr. Loomis character. And and I the reason why I latch on to it is this story is probably not true, but it is so amazing that I I wish it to be true. And if I feel like if I tell it long enough, I tell it enough times it will become true. But Donald Pleasants fought in World War II and was uh shot down early in the war and went to a POW camp. And because the our friends, the Nazis, had a good supply of slave labor, they treated their white prisoners very well and just like sort of locked them up in the camps, they just didn't have anything to do. And so he spent the war in a POW camp just sort of hanging out. And he got out, and he was an actor before the war, he went back to acting after the war. And there was a disorder among the soldiers that came out that they noticed where they had been idle for so long that they just had to work. And so Donald Pleasants, in a very long career, I don't think, ever turned down a job his entire life and just did every job that came along, no matter how ridiculous it was, to the point that I believe he died while shooting Halloween 6, The Curse of Michael Flyer.
SPEAKER_02:Wow!
SPEAKER_05:Incredible.
SPEAKER_02:Wow, that was a fascinating story. That is so interesting. Uh well, okay, and and yeah, he definitely definitely brings a groundedness to those films. And what I'm curious about, so like I don't I'm trying to come to a point.
SPEAKER_01:It's hard sometimes, but uh do you feel for how much of this how much of this are you gonna cut out, or we're just gonna have like a unedited six six hour bonus?
SPEAKER_02:We're gonna go for it, but probably you're gonna be shocked by how little we edited. How little we edit. Um, but I feel like first of all, so in comparing those through three huge franchises and the fact that Halloween has stayed the most grounded and kind of has maybe taken itself the most seriously, and I don't necessarily mean that negatively, if that has anything to do with Carpenter and his his his wanting and his insistence to have it be that way, but then also what I find so interesting, and that's probably why I was so surprised, and I am bringing this back to Big Trouble in Little China, because what I had known him as is this director who grounds his stories, even if they are insane, like this killer guy who gets out of a you know insane asylum and goes on um serial killer path. Well, perhaps. But then he has this this movie, which is just so outlandish.
SPEAKER_04:I think the escape movies are pretty outlandish as well. Escape from New York and then Escape from the LA. Okay. They're pretty they're pretty wild.
SPEAKER_02:I think I think uh Snake Bliskin is writing down like a perhaps I retract my statement because I'm not familiar with those films either.
SPEAKER_04:So but he he is, I mean, Carpenter is definitely known for movies like The Thing, where it's just like this perfect horror movie with just incredible practical effects, and seeing some of that uh handiwork uh translate over into a movie like Big Trouble in Little China with some of the monster design, and you can kind of like see his impact on on what you're seeing in the film, but you also get just this like the quirk that you guys brought up, or just like this like I don't know, it's just there's so much insane stuff going on in the movie, and I I knew when we watched it that you not knowing as much about the movie, I was kind of like looking over when things started getting weird, and I'm like, yeah, this is this is the reaction I was expecting.
SPEAKER_02:Well, I think, and I and again, I think just you know, look, I love camp. Like, I I love Rocky Horror Picture Show, one of my favorite films. Um, I don't know if either of you know the pirate movie with Christy McNichol. That's a whole other one.
SPEAKER_01:Oh, yeah, yeah. Another big video in the Crocown.
SPEAKER_02:Exactly, exactly. Love that film. So, like, I am on board for those types of films. Um, I guess maybe it's all about perspective. And and that's again another kind of conversation we can have at some point because I was like, oh, this is a John Carpenter film.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:And when I think John Carpenter, I'm thinking Halloween, I'm thinking The Thing, and I'm thinking The Fog. So those are the three films that I like know best of his. And so I would like literally like the mind-blown emoji. I was like, what is the three of me?
SPEAKER_04:I think they're called the three storms, uh, Raiden, the thunder, and lightning show up. That's that's the moment we're like, what in the hell am I even watching? Yeah, pretty well.
SPEAKER_01:Which got got ripped off about five years later for Mortal Kombat pretty well. Yeah.
SPEAKER_04:Um Lightning becomes uh Raiden. Yeah. And I can't remember the other one, but there were I know there were two. Yeah. Um the the guy that played uh Thunder, he has, I just want to say real quickly, he has possibly the best IMDB photo I've ever seen. Because it's just it's him shirtless flexing, and it's it's pretty remarkable.
SPEAKER_02:So what were you going to say?
SPEAKER_01:Oh, well, I think you're hitting on Anna because this movie kind of uh forms a bookend with They Live, uh, which I don't know if you're gonna do, but it feels very much like a director who had found a lot of success in those horror movies that you're talking about, um, and branching out creatively a little bit in ways that are interesting. Uh, because those movies, I admire the craft of them, and I I keep saying that they're not necessarily my movies, and it's fun, and you mentioned the escape movies, like Escape from New York is kinda campy in one sense, but played at least like very, very seriously what I watched. Yeah, and then Escape from LA, which is essentially the same movie, uh, is just everything taken up to a funny camp place. Um I think uh again to go back to that great uh monument of cinema Halloween 3.
SPEAKER_03:Um God damn it.
SPEAKER_01:The back the backstory on that that I heard was Carpenter had done two movies with Michael Myers, and they'd want to do another Halloween, and he said, screw you. I'm I'm I'm done with that. I'm kind of bored with that. So he thought he could turn Halloween into like uh a franchise wherein it would almost be like what JJ Abrams has has done or tried to do with Cloverfield. They would just stamp Halloween on something, and he could make a weird movie. Yeah, he could make a weird movie or he could produce and make someone else make a weird movie, and obviously that didn't work out very well with hot with Halloween.
SPEAKER_04:Um It might be the worst sequel that I've ever seen.
SPEAKER_01:I mean, I don't even know if you call it a worst sequel. It's it's sort of it's not it's not good as a sequel to those movies. It's not good in and of itself. There's a lot that doesn't make sense in and of it. Uh the reason why I brought it up initially was I believe the town where the Mass Factor is has the same name as the town in the original Invasion of the Body Snatchers film. So that's sort of that's the ref that that's that's he was very tuned into the pop culture of that time, and that's why I think some of the references wind up in the things that he does. Um yeah, I think this is him trying to do an interesting genre comedy and very much playing into the comedy, and I think doing it pretty effectively for someone who is not you know a comedy director. And uh they live, it's a lot of the same, it's not campy in the same way, but it is quirky, and then exploring some of his political thoughts and feelings in a way that you know is is interesting to see it to realize that in 1988 that there were people that realized that, and we are and we're you know, as 80s kids, we aren't really the smart ones, people at the time knew how fucked up things were. Uh, and also Rowdy Roddy Piper having the longest fist fight in history with Key Kids.
SPEAKER_04:And uh, I mean, his quote, the the chewing gum and kicking ass, I'm all out of gum quote, is that's where that's from. Yeah, one of the things.
SPEAKER_01:You know, you you can you can just cut this out and save it for whatever you do with A Live and whoever you invite onto that. I did have a chance to watch that with my partner Marley uh early in this quarantine, and we got to that, and she was like, wait, is that where that phrase comes from?
SPEAKER_02:I have the same reaction right now. So one and this might be a nice, nice way of kind of because like well, okay, let me think here. Of all the films that we've done, Derek, not that I mean this is uh this is number 12.
SPEAKER_04:Uh-huh. I'm listening.
SPEAKER_02:Most of them have been comedies.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, I I want to say that blood sports a comedy, but I don't think it's uh yeah, yeah, yeah. I don't think so. I I think this is one of the more unique as far as like we don't even know how to categorize it.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah. Yeah.
SPEAKER_04:What what chance did Fox have in the in the 80s? Like they if we don't know now, how how would we expect them to know then?
SPEAKER_02:I do think that um so between what you just said, Owen, about Carpenter kind of like flexing his like comedy skills a little bit, and then what I what I read about this film, this was this is where I was like really trying to connect with the film because I will say that like uh again in terms of like groundedness, Derek, Derek might lose his mind right now. I probably prefer Bloodsport. Um it because I that is that's kind of where I where I gravitate towards.
SPEAKER_04:That being said, well, I I think actually now that you mention it, there's probably the same amount of fact in both movies. Sure. Even though the end credits saying that that blood sport was based on his real life story. We all know.
SPEAKER_02:Oh, that was an amazing little epilogue. Um in any case, what I what I really gravitated towards in this, I read this and I don't I don't know if I would have picked up on it had I not read about it first, but the relationship between Jack and Gracie was supposed to be indicative of the back and forth and like the the verbal wit of like 30s and 40s screwball comedies.
SPEAKER_05:Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:And that I loved. Um, I don't know if they and look, there was so much in the film. I don't know what they could have done. I I don't feel like it was like fully explored to the extent that it could have been. I could see, I could see bits and pieces, and it, you know, uh two of the references that I saw is that they were trying to go after the same kind of tone and banter of uh His Girl Friday and bringing up baby two of my apps, because I am a screwball comedy fan.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah. And I don't know if they completely succeeded there.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, I don't um, you know, here's what I can appreciate about the film, especially given that it is like I mean, skewed so heavily male. Um, of three women in the film, one barely talks the whole time the fiance. Um yeah, and then we have Margot. Margot was cool. Um, but uh Gracie, like I liked that she was a strong character. I liked that she could hold her own. She wasn't to me a damsel in distress.
SPEAKER_04:Uh she was she was at one point in the movie, but she wasn't that she wasn't that like caricature of what you would consider.
SPEAKER_02:Right. I think she was a strong woman. And um, and I do think that they were successful in that regard because that is something that is very indicative of most of um the female characters in screwball comedies, they can stand on their own against the the male lead. So so I do think that they were really successful in that regard, and I can really appreciate that about that character in the film. So I think Kim Cotrol, she she did a great job. Uh likewise, like she, I mean, she's definitely um coming from a different place than the way that Kurt Russell embraced his character because she is more of the straight person. Um, she's certainly not buffoonish, and uh and I think she did a great job. So so I I just appreciate that little that specific way of bringing in comedy into the film because that's the way that I connected with it. Like I I'm not really as much the person who's connecting with like the really broad humor and the the different monsters and the crazy battles and fights.
SPEAKER_04:I mean, I I liked how they like constantly reminded you just how out of his element Kurt Russell Jack Burton was when I think at one point he was like, I I feel like I don't know what's going on, and Eddie says, You don't.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah.
SPEAKER_04:And then uh later in the movie, when Egg Shen walks in with um some of the other fighters that they had seen in the beginning of the movie, uh Jack Burton asks, like he he's thinks he's going to be helpful in some way, and he starts talking to one of the fighters as if like I think he asked him, Hey, do you do you understand English? And the guy responds with like, Who is this guy about Jack? Like, reinforcing that, like, you don't really even need to be here anymore. We can all handle this ourselves. Don't you have like a truck to find? Right. So those were some of the moments that uh that yeah, cracked me up. Yeah, yeah, that aside.
SPEAKER_02:Go ahead, Owen.
SPEAKER_01:Okay, oh well, you're hitting on. I was just castigating myself because we've been talking this long and we didn't bring up uh Kim Catral. Um I think you're absolutely right that that character is not what they would have imagined her to be, I think. I think I I immediately latched on to when I was watching it again that I think she says her full name about three times in the scene where she is introduced, you know, Gracie Law, I'm Gracie Long.
SPEAKER_04:Um if my last name was Law, I would say it every time too.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, because you know, they've got those ridiculous contacts on her because it was so very important that she had create green eyes. Uh so she very much comes off like a Brenda Star comic comic strip character, which I think uh was part of what they were going for, and it is fun. Um but I kind of this sounds like I'm grading on a very weird, weird curve. There wasn't a lot to that relationship between her and Kurt Russell to the point where the fact that they he just walks away from her at the end and they don't try to make it to a relationship, Ellis feel like, okay, yeah, good job, guys. Let's let's I I appreciate us in this movie about uh magical wizards and whatnot, that we are acknowledging some grounded relationship stuff. You this is nothing here, nothing is gonna happen come from this. You're a truck driver.
SPEAKER_02:No, you're totally right. And that's funny because on the one hand, I was shocked because it went so against uh the norm of having some kind of you know happy ending. And also I was uh I I was happy about the way that they did that. But seriously, Owen, I mean, I'm I'm really impressed by the breadth of knowledge that you have about this film. I mean, you've obviously like and and you know, I know you said your you had your notes, but I know that this is this has already been a film that's been in your life. And I for some for a film that um felt more superficial to me than a lot that we've done in the last couple episodes, you actually brought a lot of uh depth. An amazing insight. Yeah, yeah, an amazing insight to it. So I mean, this has been fantastic. Like, thank you, thank you so much for coming on the show to talk about it in this way.
SPEAKER_01:Bringing unnecessary depth to pointless endeavors is kind of my brand. So I appreciate I appreciate the chance to shine with your audience.
SPEAKER_02:It it really was awesome. Like you you made me think you made me think about this film, which I don't know if I was doing a lot of thinking last night when I was watching it.
SPEAKER_04:You succeeded where I failed.
SPEAKER_02:So yes, this has been fantastic for sure. We'd love to have you on again. And you know, when I first introduced you and uh said that you are a fantastic screenwriter and TV writer, that uh for all the folks out there listening was was no joke. Um, this is a gentleman who last year was a semifinalist at um the Austin Film Festival for a screenplay. And if you do know anything about screenwriting and um the certain accolades that you can get, Austin is is certainly right up there in terms of being able to find talent and um and showcase them. So wanted to give you a much deserved shout-out for that. And you know, I know the world has been in a little bit of a weird place for the last couple months. And um, I was just curious that, you know, for writers, that's that's the you know, maybe easier than other uh other creatives in this field. I was curious if you've been working on anything lately.
SPEAKER_01:Oh boy, oh boy, oh boy. Well, first of all, that you're you're way too kind. Uh, and thank you for saying that. Uh I would be remiss if not saying that uh part of my success there uh was down to you uh reading that script and uh recommending me. So I appreciate you you pointing that out. Um but yeah, I did uh complete two uh pilots as part of a program that I was doing, uh wrapping up the second one. Uh well starting and finishing the second one uh within the quarantine period. Uh and I don't know if you feel this way. I know at the start of the quarantine everyone was like, oh, this is a great opportunity to uh write your novel. Uh did not work out that way.
SPEAKER_02:Um well, sir, I feel like we have some time to go. So I mean, no, no, no pressure or anything, but unfortunately, it feels like this uh state of things are is gonna be lingering longer than we maybe all had anticipated.
SPEAKER_01:But um but no, it's just a oh sorry.
SPEAKER_02:Um not at all.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, but that was uh a lot of uh creative endeavor going into that, and that's being uh sent around right now. So uh looking forward to that. And just to give you a sense of how this movie has influenced me without me necessarily realizing it, uh, because you mentioned like grounded material. I also like grounded material. That's why uh my first pilot was about uh a woman who finds out that the neighborhood that she's trying to gentrify is uh actually full of werewolves. And the uh next one was about uh a man who uh loses about 200 pounds and discovers that uh he can hear alien voices and is recruited by a government agency to uh fight them.
SPEAKER_02:Um both of those shows need to be made. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:I agree. I agree.
SPEAKER_02:Oh, I mean, especially, my goodness, I again another another topic that we could go on forever with um, I mean, Derek and I find a way to slam the poltergeist reboot every chance we get.
SPEAKER_04:It was a little forced this time, but I got it in there.
SPEAKER_02:Um but that but to that point, you know, like to to just hear about original ideas that are fresh and fun and different. I mean, seriously, the I I can't wait to read those. So that's me telling you to email me those scripts. But um in any case, Owen, thank you again for being part of this. This was just so much fun, and we definitely are looking forward to uh whenever we can have you back for another episode. So that was our fantastic conversation with our friend and writer, Owen Croak.
SPEAKER_04:So Yeah, that was awesome.
SPEAKER_02:It was it was awesome.
SPEAKER_04:He's I what I really uh have enjoyed about you know, we've done several episodes now with with various guests, and I really appreciate how you just get such a different uh perspective uh on the movies, and everyone has brought really good information and perspectives on on like their memories of the movie. So that was another great call.
SPEAKER_02:That's one of my absolute favorite things about doing this podcast is that you know we we make an effort to have people as a special guest who have a um a particular affinity for the film that we're discussing for that episode. And so far, I feel like we're batting a thousand in terms of having people on where it is so clear their love for that film, and that brings so much to the conversation, and it is fascinating to me to see how these individuals that we bring on think about the film, how the depth of thought that they've put into what this film is about, how the story plays out, how it's affected them beyond just like watching the film. Yeah. It's it's really cool. Yeah. And that's like why I love movies because that's that's what they have the power to do. Would you watch this film again, Derek?
SPEAKER_04:I mean, I watched parts of it again the next day after we watched it before. I started like scrolling through uh through parts of it just to watch again. Yes, I I will watch this again. I I really enjoy this movie. It's just a fun movie. That was the first time I've watched it from beginning to end in a very long time. But yeah, uh, this is definitely one on my list of movies that I can always watch. How about you?
SPEAKER_02:I'm glad I saw it. I'm glad that I now know what this movie's about. It's always really cool for me to learn about who was part of this film. I think that it probably won't be a film that I, you know, say like, hey babe, let's watch Big Triple in Little China. If you had it on, I would be fine with it.
SPEAKER_04:I've watched it a million times. I still am not a hundred percent sure on what Egg Shen gives them all to drink before going down into the deep underground below Chinatown. What do you think it is?
SPEAKER_02:Oh, is this our call by action? No, I'm just wondering if you What do I think it is? Uh maybe some kind of um potion.
SPEAKER_04:Honestly, I feel like you just gave him like a shot of whiskey or or maybe a shot of whiskey.
SPEAKER_02:I don't know. I don't know. Yeah, that I was uh not prepared for that question. That was very off the cuff.
SPEAKER_04:My apologies.
SPEAKER_02:No, that's okay. So maybe that's our call to action. Uh because we were debating like what can what could we possibly do as a call to action?
SPEAKER_04:I mean, I was just gonna say, hey, have you ever traveled to San Francisco? Let us know.
SPEAKER_02:Have you ever had to battle uh ancient sorcerer and rescue a damsel in distress?
SPEAKER_04:If you have green eyes, let us know.
SPEAKER_02:If you do want to get in touch with us, and we would love for you to do so, uh, you can find us on Facebook and Twitter and Instagram. Same handle for all three. It is at 80smontage pod and 80s is 80S. We would love to, whether or not you want to tell us if you have green eyes, if you've been to San Francisco, or any other thoughts you might have on the film. We'd love to hear from you. Okay. What's coming up next? I'm so, so, so excited. What is it? Dun dun dun dun, dun dun dun. Oh, wait, dun. Am I doing that now?
SPEAKER_04:Is it no no you is this uh Raiders of the Lost Ark or Indiana Jones and the Raiders of the Lost Ark?
SPEAKER_02:It is Raiders of the Lost Ark. I agree. Yeah, I don't like that name change that they implemented after the fact. I get what they did it, but gotta franchise that, Jim. You gotta franchise that. So, yeah, so excited. This is one of just my favorite, favorite films. And very excited for our special guest um to hear her thoughts on how much she loves this film. And yeah, that's it. So in two weeks' time, we'll be coming back at you.
SPEAKER_04:Until then, stay safe, wear a mask. We'll try to do better next time.
SPEAKER_02:That's all I got. Thanks, guys. Bye.