Raiders of the Lost Ark

With special guest Kameishia Wooten, Anna and Derek discuss snakes, melting faces and more from Steven Spielberg's Raiders of the Lost Ark (1981).

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Anna Keizer and Derek Dehanke are the co-hosts of ‘80s Movie Montage. The idea for the podcast came when they realized just how much they talk – a lot – when watching films from their favorite cinematic era. Their wedding theme was “a light nod to the ‘80s,” so there’s that, too. Both hail from the Midwest but have called Los Angeles home for several years now. Anna is a writer who received her B.A. in Film/Video from Columbia College Chicago and M.A. in Film Studies from Chapman University. Her dark comedy short She Had It Coming was an Official Selection of 25 film festivals with several awards won for it among them. Derek is an attorney who also likes movies. It is a point of pride that most of their podcast episodes are longer than the movies they cover.

Kameishia Wooten is a passionate Director, Writer, and Producer who creates provoking, inclusive, socially impactful stories for TV & Film. She has written, directed, and produced 6 short films and a web series. Most recently, Kameishia’s proof of concept short, Destiny’s Road, received the Best Narrative Short Film Audience Award at the 2021 Moorpark Film Festival, Best Short  Film Award at the 2020 Black Truth Film Festival, and has screened in over 20 film festivals throughout the U.S. and abroad.

Transcript

SPEAKER_04 0:32

Hello and welcome to eighties movie montage. This is Derek.

SPEAKER_01 0:36

And this is Anna.

SPEAKER_04 0:37

And that was Harrison Ford as Indiana Jones in Raiders of the Lost Dark.

SPEAKER_01 0:41

Woohoo!

SPEAKER_04 0:42

Today's movie.

SPEAKER_01 0:43

Yay!

SPEAKER_04 0:44

And uh if we learn anything about Indiana Jones early on, it's that he's good with a whip and hates snakes. He hates them. Hates them. Hates them.

SPEAKER_01 0:55

And what I love about that clip is it's one of the most perfect forms of setting up a character trait that has a payoff, a huge payoff later in the film.

SPEAKER_03 1:08

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:08

So, and we'll get into that about just how beautifully constructed this film is. But uh yeah, this was one of my picks. Although that being said, it is everyone's pick. It's everybody's pick. It is truly one of my top ten films for sure, just across the board, regardless of era. And yes, I just love this movie.

SPEAKER_04 1:31

It's it's a really good movie. I mean, I know it obviously has had an impact in pop culture and has led to like spin-offs. I mean, the the adventures of young Indiana Jones. Right. Uh a ton of sequels and upcoming sequels. Yeah. The uh Uncharted series is unabashedly based on Indiana Jones. Rips it off. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:52

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:53

Heavily based on.

SPEAKER_01 1:54

Heavily based on.

SPEAKER_04 1:56

Nathan Nathan Drake is essentially uh Indiana Jones, only he shoots more people and does not have a whip.

SPEAKER_01 2:03

Okay.

SPEAKER_04 2:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 2:04

All right. Well, let's just dive right in because we have a lot to talk about with this movie.

SPEAKER_04 2:09

If you thought our other episodes were long, buckle up.

SPEAKER_01 2:14

So I think of the films that we've covered so far, this one comes in the earliest in the decade. Yeah. So this is 1981. Okay. So it precedes E.T. by a year, and that is relevant because this is the second of the two. Well, that is a little redundant. Second of the two.

SPEAKER_03 2:34

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 2:34

It is a Steven Spielberg film. We talked about him in our tenth episode with Dan Strange when we covered E.T. So, like I normally do, we're gonna go over some of the major players in this film, both behind the camera and in front of it. And, you know, you you would normally start with Steven Spielberg, uh as the director of this film, but because we did go on about his credits at length in episode 10, if you want to hear off that.

SPEAKER_04 3:08

It's safe to say that I think most people are familiar with uh Right, right.

SPEAKER_01 3:12

And we're gonna get to that point where as we do more episodes, you know, we're gonna see recurring appearances with from certain people, whether it's a director or an actor, what have you. And so I think this is kind of the first time that we've had that circumstance.

SPEAKER_04 3:26

And so what if this is someone's first time listening to the podcast?

SPEAKER_01 3:30

Then I would recommend they listen to episode 10. Nice. That's a good recommendation and get all that backlog on Spielberg. But uh, as far as the individuals behind the writing of this film and the story of and the screenplay, so we have three gentlemen. So I'm gonna start with the two that are largely responsible for the story, for the concept of it. Okay. One of them, you might be familiar with him. He's a gentleman by the name of George Lucas. Yeah, that sounds familiar.

SPEAKER_04 4:03

Yeah, I think he he in one way like created my childhood and then later in life like his best to destroy it. But it's all good.

SPEAKER_01 4:12

It's good now. It's all good. So, okay, look, everybody knows who George Lucas is. Uh, he is the creator behind Star Wars, this is juggernaut, probably the biggest franchise of any franchise in cinematic history.

SPEAKER_04 4:31

Yeah, probably.

SPEAKER_01 4:32

That's who he is. Uh, and he's known largely as you know, a director, producer, but he he created the story of Star Wars and he has several other story credits. Yeah. So I'm gonna focus on that. Um, I mean, if you go to his IMDB, it's it's kind of funny because he has a hundred currently 164 writing credits. You're like, wow, that's pretty, pretty amazing. But the overwhelming majority of them are related to Star Wars because once you are the creator of a story and the characters in it, you are just going to automatically be credited for anything that comes afterwards because you are responsible for the initial concept.

SPEAKER_04 5:11

Animated series and okay.

SPEAKER_01 5:12

Yeah. So most of those credits do belong to Star Wars, but you know, he is the creator behind, you know, he did this as his student film, and then it went on to be his very first feature. THX 1138.

SPEAKER_04 5:27

Yep. And anyone who uh went to the movie theaters, you know, I guess it would have been several years ago, a long time ago, you'd see that intro with the THX. And you still do. Yeah. Yeah. Well, I think there's so many varieties of that now.

SPEAKER_01 5:42

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 5:42

Um, there are a lot of ways for a theater to tell you you're about to get like your mind is about to get melted from the sound audio.

SPEAKER_01 5:49

But I think I think it's still something that's put ahead. Okay of uh I don't know. He's also the guy behind American Graffiti. Oh, yeah. Which also starred, or well, I should say starred because it's a huge yeah, featured. It's a huge ensemble cast. But yes, um, that was pretty certain Harrison Ford's first uh run in a Lucas film.

SPEAKER_04 6:12

I'm positive the only reason I ever watched any portion of American Graffiti was because I knew that Han Solo was in it, and then as I watched it, I realized, nah, this isn't for me right now.

SPEAKER_01 6:21

There's a lot of, I mean, so many actors in that film. So it's it it is a good film. I mean, it it you're giving me a look. All right, we'll move on. No, so he also has story credits for the other two Indiana Jones films that are from the 80s. Okay. So Temple of Doom and Last Crusade.

SPEAKER_04 6:41

And then a few- He loves prequels, doesn't he?

SPEAKER_01 6:44

Yeah, yeah, he does.

SPEAKER_04 6:46

The Temple of Doom is a prequel.

SPEAKER_01 6:47

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 6:47

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 6:48

Yeah. I love this film. I'm sure we will cover it at some point. He is the story guy behind Willow.

SPEAKER_04 6:55

Oh, yeah, that's definitely gonna be a good one. It's a great film.

SPEAKER_01 6:59

Yeah. So the other gentleman who has a story by credit is someone by the name of Philip Kaufman. And he has some interesting uh credits. He kind of he has interesting range. I mean, first of all, he also because he has this story by credit for Indiana Jones, he has a ton of other indie credits for everything that's come since Raiders. So, so just putting that out there immediately. But also, he was the guy behind the outlaw Josie Wales.

SPEAKER_04 7:32

I really, really enjoy that uh Clint Eastwood movie based on the uh novel Gone to Texas.

SPEAKER_01 7:40

Oh, yeah. Deep cut. I had no idea.

SPEAKER_04 7:44

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 7:44

He also is behind, and this is really opposite end of the spectrum, the unbearable lightness of being.

SPEAKER_04 7:52

I yeah, that title sounds familiar, but it also sounds like a title that would instantly make me just decide to not watch.

SPEAKER_01 7:59

But it's a good film, I'm sure. But a very different kind of film. And then Henry in June. So those are some of some of his credits. All right. Now, moving on to the gentleman who was largely responsible for actually like creating the script for for this film. Another individual that you may have heard of, his name is Lawrence Kasden.

SPEAKER_04 8:23

I haven't.

SPEAKER_01 8:24

You haven't? No. Well, you should because this is the gentleman behind such films as The Empire Strikes Back.

SPEAKER_04 8:33

Oh dang.

SPEAKER_01 8:34

Oh dang indeed.

SPEAKER_04 8:35

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 8:37

As well as Return of the Jedi.

SPEAKER_04 8:40

Alright. Yeah, those are both pretty, pretty great movies. Did he write in the Ewoks?

SPEAKER_01 8:45

Oh, that's a great question. Gosh, I wish I knew that. I don't know that for sure. Uh and as well as solo, a Star Wars story.

SPEAKER_04 8:55

A I don't want to say criminally underrated because you, in fact, will not go to jail for underrating it. But it's a pretty significantly overlooked Star Wars movie. Like the they had The Rogue One, which was a great movie, and solo for whatever reason, like I don't know, marketing, people didn't like the idea of someone who wasn't Harrison Ford being Han Solo.

SPEAKER_03 9:16

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 9:16

But it's a really good movie and like was gonna set up a really fun sequel. Alas.

SPEAKER_01 9:23

Alas, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 9:24

It's not it was not meant to be.

SPEAKER_01 9:25

Right. He also, I mean, he's also got some range. I mean, some of his other credits, body heat. Okay. It's it's a different kind of film.

SPEAKER_04 9:37

It just took me in a direction I was not expecting after like ewes.

SPEAKER_01 9:40

Right, exactly.

SPEAKER_04 9:42

May have been partially responsible for ewoks and also body heat.

SPEAKER_01 9:46

The Big Chill.

SPEAKER_04 9:47

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 9:48

And the bodyguard.

SPEAKER_04 9:50

He likes things with a range of temperatures and body to be in the title.

SPEAKER_01 9:55

So that and I mean, that is a small set of examples of what this guy. I mean, he is a very accomplished, very successful screenwriter. So that's Mr. Lauren Lawrence Kasden. Okay. Okay, so moving on, we're gonna fly right by Spielberg as director. So cinematography. Sorry, Spielberg. I think I think he's gotten enough. He's he's he's fine. So this was shot by a gentleman by the name of Douglas Slocum.

SPEAKER_04 10:28

All right.

SPEAKER_01 10:28

Slokam, I should Slocum. I think that's probably more appropriate. So this gentleman, he he has passed, but passed away in 2016 at 103 years old. Wow. Yeah. Good job. So he did good. And he had an amazing resume of films. I mean, again, this is somebody that I really had to just cut down on the number of credits that he has to otherwise we'd be here all day. Just talking about it. And we could. So among some of his cinematography credits, The Lion in Winter, the 1969 version of The Italian Job. Oh, cool. Mm-hmm. Jesus Christ, Superstar. Alright. Mm-hmm. The 1974 version of The Great Gatsby.

SPEAKER_04 11:18

Which uh was that Robert Redford?

SPEAKER_01 11:20

Correct.

SPEAKER_04 11:21

Got it.

SPEAKER_01 11:21

And Mia Farrow, I believe. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 11:23

Yeah. I like it's they're both fine movies. I'm not a huge fan of the story in the first place, but I do like kind of always associate that story with Robert Redford.

SPEAKER_01 11:33

I agreed. I think we saw it in school for some reason.

SPEAKER_04 11:37

Unless I'm thinking of a meme, in which case I always think of it. Yeah, like cheering.

SPEAKER_01 11:43

Yeah, exactly. Um yeah. I I think what I take away from though that story is more about the era and the art deco. Like I love the look of the films more than maybe the storyline. In any case, sorry, F. Scott Fitzgerald. Don't mean to slam you, but um moving on. So he also uh shot the film Julia. He shot Never Say Never Again.

SPEAKER_04 12:12

Oh yeah, the uh really weird Sean Connery James Bond film with Kim Basinger? No. You know that better than I do. Kim Basinger, one of those two uh actors.

SPEAKER_01 12:23

A blonde.

SPEAKER_04 12:24

Well, I'm not saying that.

SPEAKER_01 12:29

Are you looking it up?

SPEAKER_04 12:30

Maybe, but let's just keep it.

SPEAKER_01 12:32

Let's just keep going. So he also shot the other two indie films from the 80s. So he shot Temple of Doom and he shot Last Crusade. Crusade was actually his final film, his final credit. Really? Okay. Mm-hmm. Uh, I guess he maybe retired after this point, but you know, good on him because I did the math. He shot Last Crusade when he was 76 years old. Nice. So, you know, and actually I was thinking about it, and I'm like, you know, look, I think all three films are beautiful films. But I don't know, maybe it has something to do with the backdrop of Venice and these certain areas. I mean, it's hard to shoot some of those areas ugly, but that but uh it Last Crusade in particular, I think, is a really beautiful film.

SPEAKER_04 13:25

Yeah, it is. I mean, Temple of Doom is kind of an outlier for a lot of reasons. Right. But the the original Raiders of the Lost Dark and Last Crusade have uh kind of a more similar feel to them in my mind. Um but they both look amazing. And and yeah, with advancements in technology and effects, it's no surprise that that Last Crusade, which I have to believe at one point was really intended to be the finale of this story where they're all literally riding off into the sunset. You can't get much more like the end, yeah, closure than that. Than that. Um anyways, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 14:04

Anyways, so okay. Moving on to the individuals behind the editing of this film, cutting the film. So unfortunately, we're gonna we're gonna fly past this gentleman as well because we've already talked about him actually.

SPEAKER_04 14:18

Who is it?

SPEAKER_01 14:18

Michael Kahn. So this is going back even further. We talked about him in episode three with the Goonies because he edited that film.

SPEAKER_03 14:30

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 14:31

So if you want to learn a little bit more about him, first of all, you can just go to IMDb and everything about him is right there. That's what we do. So it is largely what we do. Or you can go back to our episode three and learn more about him there.

SPEAKER_04 14:45

So please do that.

SPEAKER_01 14:47

Yeah, please do that.

SPEAKER_04 14:48

IMDB doesn't need the hits.

SPEAKER_01 14:50

Yeah, we do. They're fine. Yeah, they're okay. Also, again, George Lucas, he has an uncredited credit on it. So he must have done a little bit on that too.

SPEAKER_04 15:02

He's credited as uncredited.

SPEAKER_01 15:04

Yeah, I mean, well, I mean, it's it's a weird thing because he's like listed, but then in parentheses it says that so basically he didn't get a credit in the film, but it's I guess acknowledged that he did some of the editing. So okay. Again, it it kind of breaks my heart that we're gonna fly past him, but we went on at length about the gentleman who scored this film. John Williams.

SPEAKER_04 15:28

We could have a whole nother podcast about John Williams.

SPEAKER_01 15:31

Yeah. Yeah. And actually, I would love to do that. Yeah. That that would not be a hardship at all.

SPEAKER_04 15:36

But similar to like E.T., the music that he created for for the Indiana Jones franchise is just some of like I I hear that music and I immediately just think, adventure. You know, it's it's really incredible what he put together. And we do talk about it later on in this episode, but um, it's almost impossible to separate the music from this film. They they just work together so well.

SPEAKER_01 16:03

Yeah, I I mean that's a good point. We we had a lot of different interesting discussions with our special guest, Kamicia, and that was one of the things that we talked about, kind of in contrast to when we had our conversation with Dan about E.T. about maybe what lifted more one aspect of the film up more, you know, how William's score in E.T. really brings a a different kind of emotional impact.

SPEAKER_04 16:29

His score literally changed the end of the movie.

SPEAKER_01 16:32

Yeah, yeah, exactly. Whereas here, maybe, maybe it's just a little bit more symbiotic. But in any case, if you do want to hear more about John Williams, he also was featured prominently in episode 10 when we talked about E.T., so you could go and uh check out that episode if you want to hear more. Okay, because I am flying past several individuals that were part of this film, because we've already talked about them. I, if you will indulge me.

SPEAKER_04 16:59

I will.

SPEAKER_01 17:00

Thank you.

SPEAKER_04 17:01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 17:01

Wanted to take a moment to acknowledge a group of people that we don't typically talk about uh with any of our films. I mean, there's so many it is such a collaborative art form that I do often feel bad because there's so many more people that contribute to a particular film that we just we we cannot cover everybody.

SPEAKER_04 17:22

Laid on me.

SPEAKER_01 17:23

I wanted to bring up the individuals who cast this film.

SPEAKER_04 17:26

Oh.

SPEAKER_01 17:27

Because I think in particular, you know, I mean, look, I'm kind of throwing up, throw I'm not throwing up, I'm throwing out I confirm that you're not throwing out uh kind of a rhetorical here to our audience. Think about your favorite films. And when you think about them, like what comes to mind? Usually it's the actors who are part of it. And the people who are involved in the casting of those films often don't get no, they get no appreciation.

SPEAKER_04 17:58

We we see these movies and we just assume, like, yeah, of course Harrison Ford is Indiana Jones, but like people actually had to put together like who do we want to be this person and who like how is this all gonna work when they're actually together? Maybe this person would be a great indie, but maybe they wouldn't have the same chemistry with whoever we cast as Marion. So yeah, they don't I I think that that probably is a thankless job in many in many ways.

SPEAKER_01 18:25

Yeah, and they're so important because you know, again, even though film is so collaborative, the average person usually thinks about the actors in it when they give reason for maybe why they love a film so much.

SPEAKER_03 18:39

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 18:40

So I just wanted to take a minute because look, I don't think it gets more iconic than Harrison Ford is Indiana Jones. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 18:47

You know, so we will talk about the uh alternative. If we hadn't had Harrison Ford, who would we have had?

SPEAKER_01 18:53

For sure.

SPEAKER_04 18:54

We would have had Magnum P.I.

SPEAKER_01 18:56

I personally, you know, look, we'll we'll save that for when we actually bring up our conversation with Kamicia. I no shade to Mr. Sellick, but I all I'm gonna say is that I am beyond grateful that it was Harrison Ford ultimately.

SPEAKER_04 19:12

I don't, I mean, I don't have as strong a feeling. Maybe if I do at all, it's in the other direction where like I want to see some of these um like deep fakes that people are creating, and maybe then we could actually see how it would work with uh Tom Selleck as uh to my knowledge I don't know if um if like it's readily accessible, but I know that they still have like his audition for and I because I think he um I think he auditioned I want to say with Sean Young.

SPEAKER_01 19:42

It was it was um Sean Young is is Marion Yes. And so you can at least so another podcast that's great, I I would love it if people keep listening to ours, but there's there's a there's one that is wonderful, it's called Unspooled, and they do talk about raiders and they they go on at length about this casting situation. So that's another great, great podcast to listen to for this kind of stuff. But moving on to the actual people involved, uh so uh, you know, kind of sometimes like screenwriters, you have a screenwriting partnership, and sometimes with casting, you have people who work together. And so that's kind of what happened in this situation. We actually have three people who are credited for the casting, but two of them seem to be kind of a partnership. Of them, though. So the first person I'm gonna bring up, his name is Mike Fenton.

SPEAKER_04 20:36

Mike Fenton. Okay.

SPEAKER_01 20:38

This gentleman, 292 casting credits. Think about how many movies he has influenced by his casting choices. You know, I mean, that's that's pretty incredible.

SPEAKER_04 20:51

I mean, it goes well beyond the over 200 that he individually was credited for because the there's like this cascading effect.

SPEAKER_01 20:58

Absolutely. Yep. So again, I had to severely pull back on the number of uh credits that I was going to bring up, but we're not gonna go through all 219. No, but I you know what? We could do that someday. I mean, once we get through every single 80s movie. Okay uh so among some of his credits, I I wanted to bring this up because I just wanted to show kind of the span of time that he was so influential. He's one of his earlier credits is the Andy Griffith show. Okay. Okay. Then we jump into American Graffiti.

SPEAKER_04 21:31

Alright.

SPEAKER_01 21:32

Chinatown.

SPEAKER_04 21:33

Yeah, it's a good movie.

SPEAKER_01 21:35

The Godfather Part 2.

SPEAKER_04 21:36

Yeah, that's uh I've heard of it.

SPEAKER_01 21:39

Heard of it. Yeah. We were actually watching it last night.

SPEAKER_04 21:42

That's true.

SPEAKER_01 21:43

Young Frankenstein.

SPEAKER_04 21:44

Man, that movie's so good. Frankenstein.

SPEAKER_01 21:48

One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest.

SPEAKER_04 21:49

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 21:50

E.T. Poltergeist, Blade Runner, A Christmas Story, Foot Loose, Temple of Doom, The Goonies, all three Back to the Future movies, Last Crusade and Total Recall. Those are just some of his credits.

SPEAKER_04 22:06

I think we should probably emphasize the Arnold Schwarzenegger version of Total Repo.

SPEAKER_01 22:11

Oh, yes, my apologies. Yeah, yep, yep.

SPEAKER_04 22:13

Not that damn remake.

SPEAKER_01 22:15

Yeah, exactly. So I I'm blown away by the breadth of influence that this gentleman had over some amazing films that are still very much beloved and and part of like the conversation of movies.

SPEAKER_04 22:33

I mean, we could have ended up with Danny DeVito as Indiana Jones and what would have happened then.

SPEAKER_01 22:38

Exactly. So a woman who it seemed that Fenton worked with quite a bit, Jane Feinberg, because she has like she has overlapping credits, but she also has kind of some of her own. But among some of her credits, it's not it's not as extensive as Fenton, but um some of them include Chinatown again, Godfather 2, Young Frankenstein, Cuckoo's Nest, E.T., Blade Runner, Foot Loose, Goonies, Back to the Future. But she has uh her own for Aliens.

SPEAKER_04 23:04

Oh, nice.

SPEAKER_01 23:05

Yeah, but again, just to show you, I mean, Aliens is another really perfectly cast film.

SPEAKER_04 23:10

It yeah, it really is. It's an amazing group. The Marines are kind of like the like the typical group where each each one of them is kind of like fits into this stereotype that you would imagine.

SPEAKER_01 23:21

But they bring so much person. I mean, we're talking about people like Bill Paxton, and you know, people who went on to have really amazing careers on their own. And it could have been really easy to just kind of blow past that, and and each one of them brings so much to the film, even the ones who unfortunately get killed off pretty early on. So I Sarge. Sarge, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 23:43

Who is also in Superman 3.

SPEAKER_01 23:46

Huh.

SPEAKER_04 23:46

Weird.

SPEAKER_01 23:47

Huh. Yeah. Okay, so last individual I want to bring up, her name is Mary Selway. And so who knows? It could have been for the the number of people that they had to cast, or I don't know the reasons why she also came on board besides these two others. But uh, some of her credits, Victor Victoria, Return of the Jedi, all right, Temple of Doom, out of Africa, Gorillas in the Mist, Circle of Friends, First Night. So, real quick aside.

SPEAKER_04 24:13

First night with um Richard Gere.

SPEAKER_01 24:16

Yes. Was Sean Connery in there? Yes.

SPEAKER_04 24:18

Wow.

SPEAKER_01 24:19

I gotta tell you, the reason why I specifically put down this credit is this is this is like 13-year-old Anna talking right now. There is a kiss in that movie that will knock your socks off.

SPEAKER_04 24:36

Between Richard Gere and Sean Connery, that would knock my socks off.

SPEAKER_01 24:40

Uh just just say, and so it probably gets not a lot of love, but it it uh it's a fun movie. Alright. Moving on, Notting Hill, Love Actually, and Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire.

SPEAKER_04 24:55

That was a good one. Yeah. So the uh the kid from uh Twilight, the new Batman who's in it. Doesn't end well for him.

SPEAKER_01 25:04

No, it doesn't. Alright. Let's move on to Mr. Harrison Ford. So we're gonna start with the people who are in this movie.

SPEAKER_04 25:16

I love that he's just cast as Indy.

SPEAKER_01 25:18

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 25:18

On uh on IMDB at least. They just list him as Indy.

SPEAKER_01 25:21

Yeah, I do too. So I mean, where do you start with him? Because he I would say arguably one of the most beloved actors of our time, has I mean, it could have just been Indiana Jones alone as like this like long-lasting franchise, and he would have been just fine. But uh also we know him as Han Solo from the Star Wars films from the original trilogy, as well as the sequel trilogy.

SPEAKER_04 25:51

Um we know him as the president of the United States on Air Force One.

SPEAKER_01 25:57

And also uh he did a couple Jack Ryan films.

SPEAKER_04 26:00

He did, he was really good in those, in those uh Tom Clancy films.

SPEAKER_01 26:03

Yeah, so let me uh real quick, I'm gonna just go through well, it's a little more than quick because I have like 20 credits for him. But it just shows you. I mean, I wanted to bring up some of the films that are um not as often brought up in conversation, but I wanted to do that because I think he, you know, look, when you look at films like Star Wars or N D or Um, you know, his Jack Ryan role, maybe you um don't look at those roles as serious, you know, not not something that like an aesthet uh accomplished actor kind of action adventure or or just straight-up action, but he has he certainly has a range that goes well beyond those types of films. And that's something that actually we bring up with Kenisha in terms of kind of like general perception of certain genres of film and how they're not taken as seriously or given as much respect as others. But uh, okay. So we already mentioned one of his very first uh films was American Graffiti. He actually had a bit part in the conversation. Have you ever seen that? I have not. It's a great, it's a great film. It's a Coppola film, you should definitely see it. Maybe I'll watch it with you.

SPEAKER_03 27:13

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 27:15

So we have, like you said, New Hope, uh Empire Strikes Back, Return of the Jedi, The Force Awakens, Rise of Skywalker. Was he wasn't in um Last Jedi, right?

SPEAKER_04 27:30

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 27:31

Uh also we have Apocalypse Now. He had a small part in that. Blade Runner. Oh, yeah. Yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_04 27:39

Uh Detective Deckard. Mm-hmm. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 27:41

Yep. We so obviously.

SPEAKER_04 27:44

And Blade Runner 20, what is it, 2049? Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 27:47

Yeah. He's in that too. He is indie. They never recast the role, thankfully. So he's in all the other indie movies as indies, so Temple of Doom, Last Crusade, Crystal Skull.

SPEAKER_04 27:58

Would they ever uh just do a reboot with that with that guy who played in solo? Oh gosh. He's just gonna become Harrison Ford.

SPEAKER_01 28:07

He did a great job.

SPEAKER_04 28:08

I could see it.

SPEAKER_01 28:09

He did a great job, but that's not gonna work for me.

SPEAKER_04 28:11

No, no, it's not gonna, it obviously didn't work for a lot of people.

SPEAKER_01 28:15

Yeah. So Witness. So now now this is what I was talking about.

SPEAKER_04 28:19

Yeah, Witness is a really, really like he is he a just a detective or police officer? He's like investigating a murder on an Amish. Mm-hmm. Ends up in an Amish farm. Yeah, that was a great movie. With Kelly Miguelis, right?

SPEAKER_01 28:33

Yes. Yeah. The Mosquito Coast, which also stars River Phoenix. And then he he can do comedy. He was in Working Girl.

SPEAKER_04 28:41

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 28:41

Not one of my favorites, but Presumed Innocent. Yes. Um, and also that I'm glad you brought that one up because that was one that I actually did not put on the list. Uh, but one of my favorite films of his, The Fugitive.

SPEAKER_04 28:57

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 28:58

Love that movie. There's really just I mean, this kind of goes back to the quad the casting that we were talking about, where you have chemistry between actors and the chemistry between him and Tommy Lee Jones. And like the one-armed man. It's so good. The one-armed man. It's so good. It's so good. So the fugitive, um, you know, we talked about kind of his roles, Jack Ryan, so Patriot Games, Clear and Present Danger. You mentioned Air Force One.

SPEAKER_04 29:27

Get off my plane. And then also he was in the remake of Sabrina, which is not a great remake, but he's he's I got confused for a second, thought that he was in Sabrina the Teenage Witch, the way you said Sabrina Witch.

SPEAKER_01 29:42

Oh, sorry.

SPEAKER_04 29:43

I thought that was inspired casting if he was in the world.

SPEAKER_01 29:46

That would be really interesting.

SPEAKER_04 29:48

Netflix money's out of control.

SPEAKER_01 29:50

Okay. Moving on to Marion Ravenwood, played by Karen Allen. Yep. I mean, I could again, I mean, this is so redundant. I could go on because I just I love this character. I love her playing this character, perfect casting.

SPEAKER_04 30:09

It's probably the best female character in in any of the Indiana Jones movies.

SPEAKER_01 30:18

Kind of by a long shot, to be quite honest. So some of her credits, her first role ever was in National Lampoons Animal House.

SPEAKER_04 30:27

Wow.

SPEAKER_01 30:27

Yeah. She also was in Starman.

SPEAKER_04 30:32

I mean, that's just such a goofy movie. Maybe we'll cover it at some point. Maybe it's just uh that's just a weird movie.

SPEAKER_01 30:38

She also is very much, I would say, the heart and kind of the grounded feature or grounded character in Scrooged.

SPEAKER_04 30:46

Yes, very much so. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 30:48

I mean, so much about Scrooged is just like so kinetic and hyper, and she brings a really nice kind of calming element to it. Uh she's in Malcolm X, she's in The Sandlot.

SPEAKER_04 30:59

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 30:59

She's the mom. She's in the perfect storm. And then she came back for Indiana Jones and The Kingdom of the Crystal Skull.

SPEAKER_04 31:08

I I've only watched that one time, I think, and I should probably watch it again. Um if for no other reason than to see her in in the movie again. But also because I don't really remember what the hell went on in that movie. And if they if they're gonna threaten me with a fifth version of the movie or a fifth installment in the franchise, I should probably know a little bit more of there were aliens involved and Shia LaBeouf was running. Kate Blanchett. Kate Blanchett, uh Harrison Ford survives a nuclear blast in a fridge. I think I got it actually.

SPEAKER_01 31:40

Yeah, that's like the opening. Yeah, okay. Yeah, there you go. So what is so interesting about this film is that outside of Harrison Ford and Karen Allen, who are American actors, most of the other major roles were filled by British actors. So I, as I was like doing my research, I was like, that's just really interesting to me. Very accomplished actors. So foremost among them, Paul Freeman, who plays Renee Baloch. Belouche. Belouche. Belouche. Um, and so here's the thing. When I was going through the credits for these individuals, I realized that probably largely most of our audience is mostly familiar with American cinema or American television. He has a really extensive resume, but it's largely projects that were not made in the US and people may not be familiar with. All right. So I try to, for all the remaining actors, uh focus on some credits that people would be familiar with. So among those, um, the TV show Falconcrest, he was on. Holy shit. Really? Mm-hmm. Wow. Yeah. He actually and he played a different character, the young Indiana Jones Chronicles.

SPEAKER_04 32:56

Oh, really? Yeah. But he was he wasn't Belloc? No. That's interesting. Huh.

SPEAKER_01 33:02

Yeah. I mean, at least he was credited as like a different character name. Okay. He was on ER for a while.

SPEAKER_04 33:09

Interesting.

SPEAKER_01 33:10

And of all the credit, hot fuzz.

SPEAKER_04 33:14

Who was he in Hot Fuzz? I'm trying to think. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 33:18

I never saw it, but a priest, maybe?

SPEAKER_04 33:21

I don't know.

SPEAKER_01 33:22

Okay, moving on to, and this actually is a really interesting conversation that be could be had because we talked about this in our Princess Bride episode where we talk about kind of like ranking villains. And I think you could have a really similar conversation for this film because obviously Bellok is is put forth as like the main foe.

SPEAKER_04 33:44

He's his uh rival adversary. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 33:47

But when you're talking about evil dudes, bad dudes, the next next guy, Ronald Lacy.

SPEAKER_04 33:53

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 33:53

Who plays so forgive me for the pronunciation, but I I think it's said as like Todd. He's okay, so to give a picture, because that may not he's never referenced by name in the film.

SPEAKER_04 34:04

So he's like the main bad German dude, right?

SPEAKER_01 34:07

Yeah, he's the guy with the glasses. Oh, he is the guy with the glasses. Okay.

SPEAKER_04 34:11

And, you know, the really interesting speaking uh with the uh really overly elaborate hanger for his guy.

SPEAKER_01 34:23

Um, you know, the one who gets his hand burned up uh by the medallion. So so that's who I'm talking about. He's never referred to.

SPEAKER_04 34:32

He is he and his men are famously not thirsty.

SPEAKER_01 34:35

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 34:36

They're there for the medallion.

SPEAKER_01 34:37

Even though he's never referenced by name, I did read something that was kind of interesting to me that his name was kind of a play on the German word for evil. Oh. Or death. Death. My apologies.

SPEAKER_04 34:50

He he was uh he was evil. So I'll accept any alternative pronunciations or interpretations of the name that just take us to evil.

SPEAKER_01 34:58

So some of his credits, again, extensive resume. Uh I I'm not familiar with this, but I just really love the name of this project, The Fearless Vampire Killers.

SPEAKER_04 35:10

That sounds familiar for some reason.

SPEAKER_01 35:12

Huh. He also was in a TV series, I'm guessing probably a British TV series, The Prince and the Pauper. He also was featured.

SPEAKER_04 35:22

I was nodding.

SPEAKER_01 35:24

He also was featured on Magnum P.I.

SPEAKER_04 35:28

Wow. Yeah. That's that would have been uh incredible if Tom Selleck had been Andy. Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 35:35

And then also uh Red Sonia. So some of his credits that maybe people would be more familiar with.

SPEAKER_04 35:40

Are there multiple versions of that movie? I feel like there was an older one and then they redid that too. Probably. But that's in like the whole like Conan universe, which I am just not as familiar with. Nor am I. I know there's one with Arnie and Wilt Chamberlain.

SPEAKER_01 35:59

Yes. There's one or two.

SPEAKER_04 36:01

Arnie. Yeah, with a with with the two of them.

SPEAKER_01 36:04

With our buddy Arnold Schwarzenegger Arnie. So moving on to the gentleman who plays Salah.

SPEAKER_04 36:11

Man, John Reese Davis is so good. So good. Also from uh the TV series Sliders, right?

SPEAKER_01 36:19

Yeah. Yeah. Yep, that's one of his credits. I'm glad you brought that up because that's one that I didn't have down here. But again, I mean, I say this for almost everybody, but extensive resume. He currently has 270 credits.

SPEAKER_04 36:33

He's featured prominently in the Indiana Jones ride at Disneyland.

SPEAKER_01 36:37

He sure is. And actually, what's funny about that is I did notice that they it's like uncredited. So he he did it as probably a favor, but some of his other credits, Victor Victoria.

SPEAKER_04 36:49

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 36:49

This one I mention, I am mentioning currently because it is like this weird kind of like B movie, but there's actually a ton of people who are in it. It's really weird.

SPEAKER_04 37:02

No, I'm interested. What is it?

SPEAKER_01 37:03

Yeah, it's Grizzly 2 Revenge.

SPEAKER_04 37:07

And so I didn't really know what you were gonna say, but it sure as hell wasn't that.

SPEAKER_01 37:11

Yeah, it's so weird though, because there's like so many people who are in this film. So besides him, Louise Fletcher, Deborah Foreman, who she's from Valley Girl. So she's in it. Um and also she had kind of that bit part in Real Genius. She was the daughter. Yeah. We also have Laura Dern.

SPEAKER_04 37:35

Are we uh we're going through Grizzly 2's credits right now? Okay, get it.

SPEAKER_01 37:39

Because it is so bizarre to be like.

SPEAKER_04 37:40

I'm like, she wasn't in Indina Jones. George Clooney. Wow.

SPEAKER_01 37:46

And Charlie Sheen.

SPEAKER_04 37:47

This podcast just became an endorsement of Grizzly 2. I just whatever, whatever it's called. What is the subtitle?

SPEAKER_01 37:53

We are going to Revenge. We're gonna have to watch that movie because I'm like, what year is this? Uh I mean, it's in the 80s. Perfect. Yeah. So I'm like, what is up with this movie and having so many people in it? Anyway.

SPEAKER_04 38:07

Is it even the revenge, or is it just it's literally just revenge?

SPEAKER_01 38:10

Grizzly 2, colon, revenge. So that will be coming up at some point.

SPEAKER_04 38:16

Oh man, I can't wait.

SPEAKER_01 38:17

He's also in the Living Daylights. He also comes back for Last Crusade.

SPEAKER_04 38:21

The Living Daylights, another like the first Timothy Dalton James Bond movie. Okay. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 38:27

Not a just not a Bond person. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 38:29

That was that was like the a weird new transition for James Bond. Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 38:34

Uh so like I said, came back for Last Crusade. And then actually, what probably a lot of people, maybe younger film fans, know him from is the Lord of the Rings trilogy.

SPEAKER_04 38:44

He's Gimli, right? Correct. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 38:46

So he's in all three of those. So that might be something that uh is more familiar for some film fans.

SPEAKER_04 38:59

As Gimli.

SPEAKER_01 39:00

No, I get the sense though that for somebody who would probably consider themselves a Lord of the Rings fan, they they would know him.

SPEAKER_03 39:06

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 39:06

Yeah. So okay. So moving on to uh the gentleman who plays Marcus Brody, Denholm Elliott. So again, extensive career, very accomplished produced actor. Some of the credits that I felt people might be familiar with, The Hound of the Baskervilles.

SPEAKER_04 39:25

A great Sherlock Holmes story.

SPEAKER_01 39:27

Okay. So this is another film, and we'll probably be doing it at some point. He's in Trading Places. He plays Coleman.

unknown 39:34

Okay.

SPEAKER_04 39:34

I'm trying to think of who's going to be able to do it.

SPEAKER_01 39:35

So also um how do I explain it? I think he's like kind of ugh. I hate using this word, but like the servant of the two brothers. Um if I'm remembering correctly. It's been a while since I've watched that one. The Razor's Edge, A Room with a View. He also comes back for Last Crusade. And then a really underrated film that I think more people should watch is Noise is Off. Really funny film.

SPEAKER_04 40:02

Okay. I've never heard of it.

SPEAKER_01 40:04

Great Ensemble cast. Alright. So he is in that. And again, just a sampling of what this gentleman did in his career. Moving on. So we got two more people that I wanted to bring up. One of which is Alfred Molina.

SPEAKER_04 40:20

Yeah, he he has um, I mean, he's in the very beginning of the film when Indy is, you know, checking out multiple pieces of a map and scoping out where to go, and then the one guy pulls out his gun. And I never noticed this before, maybe I did, I don't know. But he kind of gives a look to Alfred Molina's character, and I feel like they were going to like team up. Collusion. Yeah, there was some serious collusion going on. In any case, it doesn't really matter because he doesn't make it that much further. He gets as far as give me the idol, I'll throw you the whip. You know, that's about it.

SPEAKER_01 40:56

The the Tranchula scene.

SPEAKER_04 40:58

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 40:59

Very iconic.

SPEAKER_04 41:00

He he has a great scream, though. Like in when Indy waves his hand over the light and the other archaeologist uh is revealed to have been brutally killed by one of these devices, and he just kind of like screams in terror. It's a great scream.

SPEAKER_01 41:16

It's a great scream.

SPEAKER_04 41:17

It's a good horror movie scream.

SPEAKER_01 41:19

I mean, I can't say for sure, like it's possible that they did tweak that scream. We can't say with certainty that that was all him.

SPEAKER_04 41:25

But I choose to believe that everything I saw in that movie was real, including that scream.

SPEAKER_01 41:31

But talk about a great cameo to like find a kick off your career. It wasn't like his very first credit, but it was really early in his career. So talk about a really great film to be part of.

SPEAKER_04 41:41

I still think of him for whatever reason, mostly as uh Dr. Doc Ock. And we will definitely get there. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 41:49

I mean, this guy, and this isn't to say that anybody else we've talked about already doesn't have range, but when I was going through his credits, I was like, oh my goodness, this guy can do anything. So among his credits, Lady Hawk.

SPEAKER_04 42:04

Oh my god, we're gonna definitely go into that at some point. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 42:07

You sure will. Not without my daughter. I just love that title.

SPEAKER_04 42:12

Yeah, I feel like Lifetime became aware of how ridiculous some of the titles of their movies were. Was that a lifetime movie or was it just a movie that appeared on Lifetime?

SPEAKER_01 42:21

No, that's a Sally Field movie. But it became kind of like this maybe it was like inspiration for all the Lifetime movies.

SPEAKER_04 42:28

When I think of Lifetime movies, I think of that movie because they like latched onto it and they're like, we're going full throttle into this.

SPEAKER_01 42:34

Oh, I didn't know that it ever like played on that channel.

SPEAKER_04 42:37

Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 42:37

Okay, okay. Maverick Boogie Ness.

SPEAKER_04 42:41

He is great in Maverick. He's like sorry. Um he's this uh kind of nemesis that plays against um Mel Gibson's character, uh Bert Brett Maverick throughout the movie. And uh yeah, he I mean I didn't even think of him as being in that because when he plays these roles, he just becomes a you know absolutely which in fact is acting. That's what I think.

SPEAKER_01 43:05

He really becomes that character.

SPEAKER_04 43:08

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 43:08

So Maverick, Boogie Knights, Magnolia, Shakala.

SPEAKER_04 43:16

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 43:16

It's like such a I like saying some of these titles. You just mentioned Spider-Man 2, Doc Oc, Dr. Octavius. So I just really quick wanted to say something about that because that is probably my favorite of any Spider-Man movie. And it's like in my memory, it feels like that was so long ago. That movie, maybe to some people, it is long ago, but I don't think so when you see that it just came out in 2004. So, like about 15 years ago, and we've had like 36 more Spider-Man since then.

SPEAKER_04 43:50

Yeah, they Sony has not sat on their hands with that franchise. They have made it and then remade it, and then there was like a whole jazz dance thing, and then let's remake it again, and suddenly Tom Holland, we're not gonna have it be part of the Marvel universe. Oh shit, we are again, everything's fine, let's just move on.

SPEAKER_01 44:09

It look, I know that that's the nature of things. Again, another conversation that could be had, but I was like, wow, that was just 2004. That does not feel like that long ago, and we've had so many more since then with like reboots.

SPEAKER_04 44:22

Well, we didn't even talk about the whole Andrew Garfield Emma Stone version.

SPEAKER_01 44:26

And we're not going to.

SPEAKER_04 44:27

They're okay, they're not bad.

SPEAKER_01 44:28

We'll keep going. Um, you and I know him from the Da Vinci Code.

SPEAKER_04 44:31

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 44:32

Yep. He also was on while it was on Law and Order LA.

SPEAKER_04 44:37

Okay. I was gonna mention also briefly that I mean the Da Vinci Code, those those novels that then turned into movies themselves feel like they were in part inspired by the Indiana Jones franchise.

SPEAKER_01 44:49

I could see that. And I mean he's really good at it, and again, like it just speaks to the range that this guy has. The fact that he can do something like Maverick and Boogie Knights and then Da Vinci Code. I mean, it's just incredible to me. Because a lot of times, you know, actors and actresses can easily get kind of pigeon-holed a little bit into certain roles. Sometimes they are totally fine with that.

SPEAKER_03 45:09

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 45:10

But uh, yeah, he's also he I wanted to bring this up again just to speak to his his, I don't know, maybe this doesn't really constitute range, but he is on an episode of Drunk History, which I thought was hilarious.

SPEAKER_04 45:22

Holy shit, that's amazing. Yeah. We're gonna have to check that out.

SPEAKER_01 45:24

I think that's actually maybe one of the reasons why I put that down is because I think that in addition to him having range, he has fun with his acting, you know. So he has um he was on Angie Tribeca, though he's not credited.

SPEAKER_03 45:39

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 45:39

So, and then robot chicken. So, like this guy can do anything.

SPEAKER_03 45:43

That's cool.

SPEAKER_01 45:44

Yeah. So, okay, wrapping up with the last of the actors we're gonna talk about here, Wolf Collar.

SPEAKER_04 45:52

It's always a good start if your first name is Wolf, but if your last name is collar, it's confusing. Because it sounds like an actual collar for a wolf.

SPEAKER_01 46:01

Oh, okay.

SPEAKER_04 46:02

But it's not spelled that way.

SPEAKER_01 46:04

It's not spelled that way.

SPEAKER_04 46:05

Let's just move on.

SPEAKER_01 46:05

He he plays Dietrich. So he actually is a German actor who was brought on for this role. He plays the very uh typical kind of Nazi soldier. He is tall and he is blunt and he is blue-eyed. And because of his look, I read that he actually that that is a lot of, and that is not to take away from you know the impressive nature of his career, but he took on a lot of Nazi roles because Holy shit. Yeah, um, he he looked like a Nazi. Exactly. Yeah, he has been in a lot of different projects where it was around that era and he was brought in for that type of character. But among some of his credits, uh he also was featured in the young Indiana Jones Chronicles.

SPEAKER_04 46:54

As the same character, or not there.

SPEAKER_01 46:55

No, I don't think so. Um he and then this kind of goes to what I was just saying. He was in Banda Brothers.

SPEAKER_04 47:02

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 47:02

Mm-hmm. But then uh he was in Bridget Jones' Edge of Reason. So that's really interesting.

SPEAKER_04 47:08

That is. Yeah. I would I haven't seen that, but I don't remember any Nazis in the movie.

SPEAKER_01 47:12

I would watch that movie just to kind of see what he plays in it. And then we are definitely gonna re-watch this again within kind of this like um Yeah. I'll just say it. Wonder Woman.

SPEAKER_04 47:25

Oh, really?

SPEAKER_01 47:26

Yeah. Okay. A Nazi soldier or a German soldier, because that was World War I. Yeah. So um, but I thought I was like, oh wow, we're gonna have to check that out again. So that is the very, I know, long but distinguished list of individuals who are part of this film that I wanted to give some attention to. And now, moving on to as we do, the synopsis that we pull from our TV and talk about how accurate we think it is. I always forget about that, but in 1936, archaeologist and adventurer Indiana Jones is hired by the US government to find the Ark of the Covenant before Adolf Say it better than me. Adolf. Adolf? Yeah, Adolf Hitler's Nazis can obtain its awesome powers.

SPEAKER_04 48:14

That's pretty accurate. It's pretty good. I don't have any issues with that.

SPEAKER_01 48:17

I have no issues with that. So I, you know, we talk about this with Kamicia, and we you and I didn't really get a chance to do this. Talk about, you know, like kind of first memories of this movie. I guess I did a little bit. I I guess it's you know fair to kind of reiterate, I don't have um, you know, that clear first memory because it was just too young um when when this movie started being in on rotation in our house. Yeah. I think it's hilarious because exactly like Kamishi was saying, and we'll get into that with her. This was probably not a film that children should be watching, but I most certainly saw it as a child. Oh yeah. No, I I saw this. I saw it a lot. Young children.

SPEAKER_04 49:04

I saw it a lot as a as a kid. I don't really have a strong first memory of seeing it. I think I say that later on, but um, but yeah, I have I have memories of seeing the sequelslash prequel, Indiana Jones and the Temple of Doom in the movie theater, and definitely have uh really positive memories of seeing it in the theater um the The Last Crusade. But this one was kind of similar to Back to the Future in that I had seen it so many times and it was just on this like rotation whenever it was available to watch, or I would just rent it and watch it, I would because it was such a great movie.

SPEAKER_01 49:41

Same as you the only memory I have of actually seeing something in the theater is Last Crusade. And the reason why I remember that is because as I mentioned in our conversation with her um with Kamicia, you know, my dad wasn't a huge film person, but he loved Indiana Jones, and I remember he was so excited about seeing this movie, and so yeah, I definitely remember getting our seats and the the whole shebang. I so okay, as a young child, the things that stick out to me kind of like with ET are the scarier parts. Uh and that was mostly the ending of this film.

SPEAKER_04 50:16

With Oh, does something traumatic happen at the end of this movie?

SPEAKER_01 50:20

The like biblical massacre of all these Nazis.

SPEAKER_04 50:24

I just I still kind of remember, like, I don't remember the first instance in which I saw it, but I still remember just the impression that the opening of the arc and they pull out the sand and there's like the laughter and like what a waste. Right. And then shit starts getting real.

SPEAKER_01 50:40

That like throbbing music that you hear coming up.

SPEAKER_04 50:44

And you see, you see these spirits start coming up, and I remember thinking at the time, and and I think these effects hold up pretty well now, but at the time it was like, holy shit, yeah, what is this? And when that one uh spirit looks kind of like at the viewer and transforms into this evil image, that's when it just all goes crazy. Like guys are getting lit up, lightning shooting through their body, and then of course you see um the most evil of all evil guys, they just they just start screaming and melting, like like disgusting wax candles, and it's it's horrifying.

SPEAKER_01 51:22

It's horrifying, it's so good. I think that in part what really drew me to this film at a very young age is I I was aware of this this thing called the the Ark, the Ark of the Covenant, yeah, from a young age. And I think anybody who grew up in any semblance of like a Judeo-Christian home where this was you know part of an influence on them, they were aware of this thing. And I think that that definitely had a lore for me because I knew of this thing, and to see a story that talks about it and brings in all of those elements was fascinating to me, even as a child. And I think that's also why I maybe gravitate more towards Last Crusade than Temple of Doom, because they kind of bring back that element with the actual crusades and the Holy Grail on that.

SPEAKER_04 52:18

How do we one up the the Ark of the Covenant? Right. What about the Holy Grail?

SPEAKER_01 52:21

Exactly, exactly. Um and so, you know, regardless of your stance on on those kinds of biblical elements, it it makes for a really, really interesting story. And I think that's definitely what what it was for me, even before I really understood some of the other elements. Like, I don't know if really the first time I saw this, I was understanding just how bad the Nazis were or things like that. But I definitely understood what the Ark was supposed to represent.

SPEAKER_04 52:50

Between the Blues Brothers and Raiders of the Lost Ark, I knew that they were they were pretty bad. So And then just between those two movies and like school in general.

SPEAKER_01 53:03

Right, right.

SPEAKER_04 53:05

Um Yeah, I I guess I was just thinking on the Ark of the Covenant versus the Holy Grail, and which one because I I don't have that same level of of knowledge that you do with with some of that and like the on the one hand, the Holy Grail, everlasting life, at least that's how it was portrayed in in uh The Last Crusade. But they they mention frequently in Raiders of the Lost Ark just this destructive power of the Ark. And I think that made that's one of the things that in my mind makes Raiders kind of stand out from any of the other sequels. I mean, in in Temple of Doom, you have kind of like the the stones, uh, you get the grail, but the arc is just like it's got its own theme. Yeah. It uh it's just they they did such a great job of portraying it as just this this physical being that manifests limitless power and energy.

SPEAKER_01 54:06

Yeah, and I mean, so that kind of was my major takeaway when I was like thinking about how did I feel about this movie as a child. And when we watched it the other night, I mean none of that really went away for me, it never has, and you know, we we watch this movie a lot. Uh what what I really took away from the last screening of it was again just how well constructed this movie is, and that sometimes I don't think people maybe see that because it's it's just so good and so fun.

SPEAKER_04 54:41

From literally the first scene of the movie introducing you to Indiana Jones to the final scene where we get that that that reveal that the arc has just been stored away in this massive government warehouse with who knows how many other secret items. Right. Which that scene in fact did have a pretty significant role in inspiring the X-Files.

SPEAKER_01 55:04

Oh, okay.

SPEAKER_04 55:05

Uh it's just it's such a great movie from start to finish, from literally the first to last scene.

SPEAKER_01 55:09

Absolutely. And that was, I mean, among some of my notes that I wrote, best open.

SPEAKER_04 55:14

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 55:14

Best ending.

SPEAKER_04 55:15

Yeah. So as long as you don't uh screw up the middle, you're doing pretty good.

SPEAKER_01 55:20

Yeah. And again, you know, what what makes it such a great tight film is they manage to overlap on these things that they need to do to create a successful film. So not only do they have this amazing cold open that brings you into the story, they simultaneously are introducing the main character. Yeah. And that is one thing that I kept thinking about while we were watching it is how great these character introductions are. And I'm thinking about kind of like the really top, top people. So Indy, Belloch, and Marianne.

SPEAKER_04 55:57

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 55:58

And actually, I again I'm gonna butcher his character's name, but tall or whatever his name is. No, he has great intro.

SPEAKER_04 56:03

They all the major characters have really like long-lasting, memorable introductions.

SPEAKER_01 56:10

That give you instant knowledge of who that character is. Yeah. And then there's a lot of payoff for how those characters are introduced later in the film. Like not only with Indy in his fear of snakes, and then that coming back, but Marian and the fact that you know she's introduced as this person who can very much hold her liquor, and then when she's trying to escape from Bellok, you know exactly what she's doing. It's like I I love when filmmakers do that where like you and the character share the secret, yeah. And you know that she is pretending to get totally wasted when no, she she's fine.

SPEAKER_04 56:44

I I feel like Bellok knows it pretty early on when she downs the first glass and he's like raised eyebrow, like, oh shit.

SPEAKER_01 56:51

I mean, yes, I think he has a he has a hint. He be he probably has a hint, but I still think that it's kind of this like in joke that is shared. And so I just I love when films do that. And yeah, among all the major characters, such great introductions, and that's something that you know, regardless of maybe where you are in the industry, but especially as a writer, you're told you gotta have strong character introductions. And I don't think there's a film that does it better.

SPEAKER_04 57:14

Yeah, what is uh our introduction with Belloch is once again we find that there's nothing that you can't find that I can't take away from you. I mean, within the first ten seconds of seeing this guy, you do get a sense that he's this like evil character, and I do feel like throughout the movie, just by virtue of his juxtaposition against the actual Nazi characters, you realize that he's not an inherently evil character, but he certainly is someone whose greed has has led him down this path of being the bad guy or a bad guy.

SPEAKER_01 57:46

He actually kind of has layers to him.

SPEAKER_04 57:48

Yeah, he's one of the more complex characters in this movie.

SPEAKER_01 57:51

Yeah, exactly. And I agree with you. I don't think he's inherently evil, but in his his passion for finding these things, he's willing to, you know, do away with integrity and any sense of morality by working with really bad people.

SPEAKER_04 58:10

Yeah, it's been twisted. His passion of archaeology has twisted, been twisted by this uh greed.

SPEAKER_01 58:17

Yeah. So I think I think it's time. I think it's time. Let's uh let's talk to Kamicia.

SPEAKER_04 58:23

Let's do it.

SPEAKER_01 58:26

And so we are so thrilled to have on our show today good friend and writer, director, producer, Kamicia Woten. Welcome to the show.

SPEAKER_02 58:37

Thank you for having me. I'm so excited to be here.

SPEAKER_01 58:41

We're so thrilled to have you. Um, we're thrilled because I know that you also are a huge lover of film, as are we. And this is definitely one of our like, well, I I'll only speak for myself, but one of my top five.

SPEAKER_04 58:56

No, I think I think that's right. I I mean, I'm thinking of a lot of the movies that we've done, and we've certainly covered some 80s movies that would be considered cult classics. And Raiders of the Lost Ark is by no means a cult classic. It's a movie that in like many ways changed a lot in Definitely.

SPEAKER_01 59:13

I think that when you think of the 80s, it is one of those films that is very forward in people's minds as far as like what they recall about that era and films that have really had a significant impact in terms of culture and society. And so, as we normally do, I usually start with kind of going back to first memories of this film. And so I'm gonna throw that out to you and ask if you have any concrete memories of seeing this film for the first time, about how old you were, and what it felt like for you to watch this for the first screening, the first experience of watching Raiders.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:00

Uh I probably was no older than 10. Okay. I'm thinking, because I I was hooked on the Indiana Jones franchise very probably as soon as I could speak.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:17

That's awesome.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:18

Yeah, I I just remember like I used to watch all my movies in the den. Like we had a den in the living room, and the den is where the kids would um would watch, and I would sit on the floor in front of a big tube back then because there wasn't a flat screen because it's in the 80s. Yep.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:39

We we know what you're speaking of very well.

SPEAKER_04 1:00:42

I mean you could get a pretty if you had a 30-inch TV, that was insane. And it was also 8,000 pounds.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:49

It was enormous enormous. And we had a big one. Um, because my dad would watch sports in there too. Um, so I would sit on the floor and literally glued, like I could not move and watch the entire movie. Um, I had a vivid imagination as a kid, and watching it was just captivating for me with all the action and um and just the intelligence of Indiana Jones' character. I actually wanted to be an archaeologist for a long time. And I used yeah, I did. And I used to do little um fake archaeologist trips in my grandmother's backyard because she had a really big backyard when we would go over there and pretend like I'm finding artifacts.

SPEAKER_04 1:01:31

That's amazing.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:32

Like Indiana Jones.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:37

And so when you watched this, so you mentioned like that you had like a family den. Do you remember if you alone kind of really resonated with this film, or did your family as a whole love this movie?

SPEAKER_02 1:01:52

I think it was my family as a whole because I feel like my first actually Raiders of the Lost Art wasn't the first Indiana Jones movie I watched because I think this came out in '81 and I was a baby, like I was born in in 80, but um I think because I know The Temple of Doom came out in '84. And um, I think that was the first one I watched, and I watched that with my parents. And so then I went back and watched The Raiders of the Lost Ark. And yeah, I will watch them constantly. That that that was one of the movies that was on rotation all the time that I can sit and watch all the way through.

SPEAKER_04 1:02:33

You kind of saw them in the right order, then, right? Right, because it's a prequel. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:37

Yeah, that isn't that so kind of bizarre to me. Like, I don't know, the fact that they did like they move back in time only by like a year.

SPEAKER_04 1:02:47

I was so confused. I did this obviously isn't about Temple of Doom, but I was so confused the first few minutes when I saw that, because I do remember seeing that in the theater. I don't have that same memory of Raiders in a theater, but the first few minutes of Temple of Doom, I'm like, I got this like really high anxiety thinking, Am I in the wrong movie theater? What even is this? Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:07

Yeah, that's so such an interesting like way that they position that because I think it goes from like 36 to 35. And then obviously Last Crusade comes after both of them. Yeah, but uh in any case, so I'm I'm so curious because you mentioned that you watched Temple of Doom with your parents and that you were allowed to watch Raiders at a pretty young age. And both films, I mean Temple of Doom in particular has some like really graphics.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:39

I know. I mean I watched a lot of inappropriate films when I was like Scarface. I watched Scarface as a kid, and I can't believe my parents let me watch that.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:52

I feel like that's something very indicative of children who grew up in the 80s. It really is where yeah, like parents were like, whatever. Like all of these.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:06

No, even horror movies. I think of all the horror movies I watched too, like Jace. I can't even watch them now as an adult. Yes.

SPEAKER_04 1:04:12

That's uh that's what I was gonna say is my dad thought it was a good idea to watch The Exorcist and Alien when I was Yeah Yeah, I saw all of those as a kid.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:22

And the thing is, is that like I I have memories. I mean, here's the thing. My my first recollection of Raiders, I don't know if I have like a really strong memory of like you know, sitting down. I didn't, I know I didn't see it in the theater either because I was too young, but um I I definitely remember when that spirit at the very end, I mean that that for sure was like the one memory locked in is that final scene because it's like so over the top with her turning into this like when it changes from kind of like this angelic figure to exactly literally death. Yeah. I mean, it's like a um more uh horrific transition that I feel like Ghostbusters maybe uh oh yeah, like was inspired by because of that opening scene.

SPEAKER_04 1:05:11

But then it goes from just that that kind of like terrifying transition that that's not even the worst thing that happens within like the next five minutes when you know when they all turn into candle wax. Exactly.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:24

Exactly. So when you were watching this with your parents, do you have any recollection of them um and and now this is not throwing shade at the movie because I think they're you know they're excellent films, but like did they at all shield you from any of those moments?

SPEAKER_02 1:05:39

I'm pretty sure my mom would have because that was her thing. Like she had if there was a sex scene or inappropriate thing, those hands went right over my eyes. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:52

And when you were I know it's it's it's one of those things that seriously I feel like if you weren't part of that era, you maybe don't understand. Because of I mean, look, we could have a whole conversation about the idea of like helicopter parents and that whole thing, but I definitely think that that was not something in the 80s.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:11

Yeah, my yeah, my parents were the total opposite of helicopter parents, and thankfully they had well-behaved kids that we could have taken advantage and we didn't.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:20

I think that that's a really excellent point. And I mean, not to get too far away from the conversation about raiders, but I do think that that that does inform um the the children that came out of that era, because I totally agree with you. I've I've said that myself about my father, is that there was kind of this expectation of not not taking away your childhood by any means, but like having this like level of trust in your children that they can handle certain things. And and and I think that when you when a parent gives that to a child, oftentimes the child you know rises up to that level. And so, same thing, like I remember seeing pretty intense movies at a really young age. Yeah, and and it was fine, obviously.

SPEAKER_04 1:07:07

Uh I never got the hand over my face for like the the opening of Raiders when you know Indy waves his hand in front of the beam of light and uh that horrific scene happens with the other archaeologists. No one, no one cared about that. But if there's like a kissing or sex scene, that's when the hand would go over my face.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:28

Not only the scary parts, but the sexual parts.

SPEAKER_04 1:07:32

That's what I had to be protected from.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:34

It's so, yeah, another, you know, aspect that's like so indicative of I think both American culture and parents at that time. But um so I okay, first of all, I love that your parents introduced you to these films because I do think, and we've had this conversation before with other guests, that when you are exposed to certain films from this from this era at a as a child, it it leaves this kind of like resonance with you. And obviously, I know we're talking about a movie that lots of people love, but it I do think that there's a huge difference between seeing some of these films as a child and then not being introduced to them until you're an adult and not having yeah. So would you say that if if you hadn't had that experience and your parents hadn't let you watch this film as a younger age, I know it's hard to, you know, kind of go into these hypotheticals, but do you feel like this film would have meant as much to you if you only had seen it as an adult?

SPEAKER_02 1:08:36

No, not at all. I I think it set the tone for me watching actual action adventure films because that's like my or in fantasy, that's like my favorite genre. Oh yeah, and I and it gives you this feel-good feeling that I think um you only not say you don't get it as an adult, but it it's bigger as a kid. Like you're excited and you're like amazed and you're wow. And it's almost like being at a theme park. Like that's the feeling I got as a kid watching movies, you know, Raiders of the Lost Art and other movies, like especially with the soundtrack, the big soundtrack, and it just makes you feel like you can save the world. Um, you know, that's just to me, that's part of being a kid, and those movies kind of heighten those emotions that you have as a kid.

SPEAKER_01 1:09:22

Absolutely agree. And I love what you said about it feeling almost like like an amusement park or an adventure, because that's exactly what it is. And I think what this film does so well is like, yes, obviously it has kind of like more adult content in terms of like some of the like like violence or the like horror elements. But overall, I do feel like it's a it's a maybe I wouldn't say family film, but a film that both children and adults can really like buy into. And maybe maybe from the adult perspective, because it kind of brings them back to being a kid, perhaps. But um, but I think that that's in part at least I would say the reason why this film continues to have such an impact on culture because of that. Like everybody can kind of buy into this movie, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:10:16

Like I I don't necessarily remember, like I said, the first time I saw it. I've seen it so many times, and we have seen it in so many different ways, like outdoor screenings, and you know, we we literally watch this every Saturday night. Um but watching it now, you know, we we watch every movie before we do an episode, and we kind of think about things that happen in the movie a little bit more critically. But when I saw this or like other action adventure films when I was younger, I didn't really question a whole lot of anything. You might you might watch it and go, like, yeah, that's not gonna happen, but you still are just along for the ride because they are like thrill rides where it's just you know up and down, you're kind of excited to see what's gonna happen. And I I think also, you know, in the 80s, as compared to current movies, the use of practical effects just give it like this visceral feel where it did make it easier to suspend that disbelief.

SPEAKER_02 1:11:13

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:11:15

I really believe those guys melted, and I felt bad for them.

SPEAKER_02 1:11:18

I know, I know. I was looking at like I watched rewatched it recently as well, and I was like, I still think it's pretty cool for what they did during during the times.

SPEAKER_01 1:11:27

Definitely, yeah. I I read that um the person who did those visual effects actually was getting like bombarded with calls from other people in that same specialty saying, like, how did you do that? Because we want to try to do that for our films. Um, I'm curious. So this is the second Steven Spielberg fan that uh film, sorry. I am a fan.

SPEAKER_04 1:11:50

The second fan.

SPEAKER_01 1:11:51

I'm a Spielberg fan, and this is the second film of his that we have covered in the podcast. And I'm curious if growing up, was this kind of a one-off for you, where it was specifically this film series that like really resonated with you, or would you say that you were a Spielberg fan growing up?

SPEAKER_02 1:12:13

I was a Spielberg fan because E.T. actually is my first visual film memory. Like that's so yeah. If I could think about the first film that I remember seeing, E.T. was that film.

SPEAKER_01 1:12:26

Okay, okay. Oh wow. Yeah. We might have to have you back. We we had our episode on E that was the other film. Oh, okay, okay. But um, but I like I said, listening to our guests talk about their first memories is so fascinating to me that maybe maybe we'll do a revisit of E.T. at some part sometime in the future and have you back on.

SPEAKER_04 1:12:50

Yeah, it's I mean, it's interesting because when we were talking about ET and kind of the look and feel of the neighborhood that he created in that movie and how similar it was to poltergeist, which it almost could have happened in like the same neighborhood, which would have been really rough for that neighborhood. Yeah, and like Raiders has such a different feel to it. It it really like takes everything a step further as far as just the action and how wild things things get, I suppose. Whereas like ET and Poltergeist were like on one hand grounded in more of like a reality to show that contrast, and and like here's these wild experiences that these people are going through. Indie's just crazy from the literally from the start with the whip and the gun.

SPEAKER_02 1:13:34

Yeah, I I I think I I I read somewhere that Steven Spielberg wanted to direct a um Bond type movie, and George Lucas was like, I have something better. It's like it is when he's saying it's it's Bond without the hardware, you know.

SPEAKER_01 1:13:51

That's a really great way of looking at it. Yeah, I I love that way of like succinctly showing what that character is. And speaking of, so this is one thing that like on our last viewing of this, I I was thinking a lot about just how much of an impact it makes when you have a certain actor or actress play a given role. And honestly, of any of the films that we've covered so far or ones that are kind of like in my my top 10, I think Indy is really up there in terms of you know, it I think it says something when he also plays this other iconic character by the name of Han Solo.

SPEAKER_02 1:14:37

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 1:14:38

But I think you might have heard of him. But um I I identify him as Indy, and I was curious like what your thoughts were on the importance of certain actors being cast in roles, or do you think that this could have been as successful of a movie where you know I'm I'm I'm sure this is like no secret that like Tom Selleck was kind of the person that they were trying to get in this role. So, like, what are your thoughts on that of how this film would have turned out had it not been cast with Harrison Ford?

SPEAKER_02 1:15:11

Man, I can't see it without Harrison Ford being indie because he like he is the brand. Um but I feel like Tom Selleck would have done decent, like looking at that could have worked. Yeah, I think it would have worked well, and it probably would have made Tom Sellick a bigger star if he was casted as indie. But I could totally I could totally see Tom Sellick, but of course Harrison Ford like owns the character and he does a really great job in it.

SPEAKER_04 1:15:41

Why why wasn't he? Why couldn't they get him?

SPEAKER_02 1:15:44

Please don't tell me it was because of Magnum Pi, yes, it was exactly which is a part of the 80s too. Like I'm watching Magnum Pi.

SPEAKER_04 1:15:54

Well that that's what I was thinking of, where I'm like, yeah, I could see him as that because he had kind of like that same uh expressive quality about him that you see in Harrison Ford to bring kind of like the action and like some of the like lighter moments where there's like some comedic part of it. So I could totally see Selek do that. I don't know if I could see like Indy whipping it around with a mustache. I don't know if there had been like a mustache provision in the contract, but uh man, that's crazy.

SPEAKER_01 1:16:26

Yeah, and I guess I mean I I don't have multiple sources to like back up this, but I did read that as it turned out, uh, Selleck was kind of like he could have been available because there was the reasoning that he was filming Magnum PI, but apparently like something got delayed or they just didn't start shooting as quickly as they were going to, and so he was kind of just hanging out in Hawaii and probably could have been part of the movie. It just but you know, Kismet, how things turn out for the best. Yeah, and you know, Celix had a very successful TV career. He's he's doing okay, he has an avocado farm.

SPEAKER_04 1:17:04

I have not seen a single episode of Blue Bloods, and I don't know if I ever will.

SPEAKER_02 1:17:08

Yeah, I haven't. I mean, it's a whole conversation, but I bet you he's kicking himself for it.

SPEAKER_01 1:17:15

Oh, yeah. I mean, I I think that could be another there's there's honestly so many conversations to be had. But when you hear about people who like turn down certain roles or for X, Y, and Z reason they couldn't be cast in certain roles, you know, you think about the what ifs, and I'm sure the actors also think about the what-ifs of because here's the thing is that look, I I love Harrison Ford. He he really I I think in part because he's one of these actors from my childhood that you know he's part of these multiple beloved franchises. And I think that the fact that um you know, Indy came along a couple years after Star Wars, but the fact that they kind of were like bouncing off each other in terms of release dates throughout the entirety of the 80s, that really solidified his position as you know, uh an action star for sure, but then also just a huge movie star. And and you know, but sometimes that's just um I don't know, the luck of the draw. I mean, I know that Lucas didn't actually want to cast Ford, not for any nefarious reason. He just um, you know, their good buddy Martin Scorsese, he it's obvious that Scorsese likes to work with the same actors and he didn't want to have that kind of opinion of him. I don't know why he thought that was negative per se. But um, you know, Scorsese puts De Niro in in virtually everything he makes, and so he didn't want to do that.

SPEAKER_04 1:18:46

But um I like that you said virtually because he was virtually present in the Irishman.

SPEAKER_01 1:18:54

What a boom. Uh that's me trying to do the drum thing. So another character, because that was something that really came through to me on this last screening, is just all these character introductions. And now I am a woman, Kamicia. You are a woman. And usually I think women get a little bit of the short stick when it comes to action films, adventure films. So we have this character of Marian Ravenwood. I'm gonna zip my lip because I don't wanna influence what you might say about her, but how do you feel about this character in this film and in this genre of film?

SPEAKER_02 1:19:39

Um well, in the 80s, of course, they, you know, a lot of action films portrayed women as helpless, you know, characters and they were primarily there for eye candy and romantic interests. But for this one, I felt like she did hold her own in some of the scenes, which I appreciated. I felt like, of course, she did have those stereotypical characteristics of a of a woman. Like there was one scene where she was running in heels, or they were like wedges, and I was like, and as an adult watching that, like I'm you know, I now see things differently. Right, right. And I was like, you know, I was I I was like, I'll give it a pass because it was the 80s, and it seems like people are more educated now and um are making better films with better representation of women, but I I I you know, and also it's you know, it's normally the man rescuing the woman after she's been captured. But I do, I do the qualities I do like about her, you know, she had her own bar. She can hold her liquor.

SPEAKER_03 1:20:43

Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:20:44

Um, she can get herself out of a fight, you know. So those things I appreciate about appreciate about this film, and I think it was probably a little bit more for it than other action films during the era. So I will give it a slight pass. There were some issues, but I think still um for the film, I thought it was it was the um it was a little bit more progressive than what we would normally get in the 80s in those type of films.

SPEAKER_04 1:21:14

Yeah, we were talking about the Princess Bride, and that was something that I thought of while watching Raiders last night was, you know, especially in the um in the in the forest when Buttercup is kind of watching Wesley fight away at the uh the giant rats.

SPEAKER_01 1:21:30

Rats of unusual size.

SPEAKER_04 1:21:31

They were yeah, they've become usual to me, so now I just call them giant rats. Um but seeing that and then seeing Marion like knocking people out with frying pans and drinking what appeared to be all of the liquor at her own bar, which can't be rough.

SPEAKER_03 1:21:48

Good for business. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:21:49

I mean, I don't know. We we actually thought, does she make more from the gambling on her own drinking ability than selling the liquor in the bar? I don't know. Yeah. Uh but no, that she she is a great character with kind of a badass name. Yeah. Marion Ravenwood.

SPEAKER_01 1:22:04

Yeah, it's a really good strong name. But I I know exactly what scene you are talking about when she's running in the wedges and she's carrying that frying pan.

SPEAKER_04 1:22:14

And I thought the exact same thing when we were watching, I was like, oh no, no, that would have there are scenes in Jurassic World featuring Bryce Dallas Howard running from dinosaurs in heels.

SPEAKER_01 1:22:26

What is it about the heel running in heels? I just don't understand.

SPEAKER_04 1:22:30

Like I've never worn them, but it seems difficult. It's it's it's very difficult. Um, yeah, I've been running on your toes the whole time. Can you even use your heel?

SPEAKER_01 1:22:39

It's miserable.

SPEAKER_02 1:22:40

Yeah. I actually stopped wearing heels. Agreed. Yeah, you don't wear them anymore.

SPEAKER_04 1:22:46

Well, that's because it makes you taller than me.

SPEAKER_01 1:22:51

Okay, I'll let you think that. It's really just it's they're so uncomfortable. I think that they should be banned. In any case, that's another conversation for another day. Um, in terms of okay, so I I agree on all points of what you said about Marion. Now I'm curious because although we are focusing on Raiders for the purposes of this episode, when you look at the trilogy, and I yes, I recognize that there was a fourth indie film. It's so far removed from the rest of them.

SPEAKER_03 1:23:22

There's a fifth coming up.

SPEAKER_01 1:23:24

Yeah, and supposedly there's a fifth coming up, but um so I'm looking at the the first three, so the trilogy here, and when you look at Marion compared to the other two female leads in Doom and Crusade, look, I love this series, but I do feel like there is somewhat of a regression in terms of the strength of the female character. So, okay, so it seems like you seem to agree.

SPEAKER_02 1:23:52

Yeah, especially in Doom. That's the one I remember more vividly. Like it's it's definitely a downgrade, to be honest with you, in terms of the portrayal of the um the romantic interest. Right. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:24:04

And given that that was the first of the indie films that you actually saw, do you have any recollection of I mean, like, I know you're like it was you were just a young girl watching these movies, but was there anything that like pinged you when you were watching one or the other about like the contrast between the two of them? Or was it yeah?

SPEAKER_02 1:24:27

Yeah, I don't know if I if I was thinking that critically. Right.

SPEAKER_01 1:24:31

But now I'm thinking You're like, I was a film critic when I was like five years old. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:24:39

But I can't I feel like they the focus was always on Indy, like to the point where the the you know, and this is just the way we've been conditioned to watch movies, especially during those times, like the the the female B was just an afterthought, like um it was about indie, but I do remember her being helpless and almost annoying. Yeah, I'm not gonna say almost annoying, but I I'm gonna say annoying. Yeah, and then you know, kind of like definitely she was seen more as a sex symbol as Marion's character was like badass, you know.

SPEAKER_01 1:25:17

Yeah, yeah. I love Kate Capshaw, and I know that the filming of Doom led to you know Spielberg and her falling in love, but Willie Scott, I as much as I love Spielberg, I think that and I shouldn't I shouldn't put all the responsibility on him because it's a combination of individuals who you know eventually put forth certain characters, but I felt like that was a real regression. Yeah, I agree.

SPEAKER_04 1:25:44

Yeah, I um I would argue that there's not only regression in some of the female characters when you look at Raiders versus some of the sequels, but uh Raiders of the Lost Ark has kind of the best version of all of the characters. So in some ways, the best version of Indy, although that he's he's more or less the same throughout. But uh Salah and Brody in particular are like pretty competent, capable, like real characters in Raiders of the Lost Ark. And then in uh The Last Crusade, they're they're almost just completely relegated to being comic relief. It's it's a real shame.

SPEAKER_01 1:26:23

Yeah, I Derek and I have had this conversation a couple times now, and like I I guess I'll start with this. Um we're we'll continue on this this track, but like between the three the three first films and D films, would you say that Raiders is is probably like if you had to choose your favorite among the three, or if I had to choose, I would say it's between the first and second, only because I don't know what it is about the second.

SPEAKER_02 1:26:52

Maybe it was my first time really being introduced to the franchise.

SPEAKER_01 1:26:56

Right.

SPEAKER_02 1:26:58

Um yeah, because I'm also I I love the exotic places, and I think the visuals and where they were, like in the caves and stuff, and the whole like the um witchcraft, or I would say like the the sorcery in it all um really fascinated me.

SPEAKER_04 1:27:18

Um guys getting uh hearts ripped out of their chest was pretty intense.

SPEAKER_02 1:27:22

And I can't believe I saw that as a kid, yeah. Um I was like that's because that's one of the moments I remember, and I'm always you know what's gonna happen, and I'm like anticipating it and hoping it doesn't happen, and you know, that you know, that scene.

SPEAKER_04 1:27:36

Um my chest tightens up just thinking about it.

SPEAKER_02 1:27:40

Yeah, like you know, I think between those two, um, I definitely like the betrayal of the the the female character in the first one, um, opposed to the second one. But I for some reason the adventure in the second one I I I like better for some reason.

SPEAKER_01 1:27:59

That no, I I totally get that. And I think that um not to take away from like the your agency in like actively preferring doom. I do think that if that was like the first of your indie films, there's probably like a certain imprint that it left on you. Totally. So so that makes total sense to me. And I just like I the reason why I asked that question first is because like I didn't I didn't want to go down this path of like um you know, I I I don't want to shame any of the movies, they each have their own character um and and tone to it. I think the three different films, although you know, we had this conversation actually um with one of our other guests where we were talking about what constitutes a real trilogy. Um, because he was our guest for Back to the Future, and now there's no disputing that the three Back to the Future films are a true trilogy where you're continuing a story, the same story between all three films. Whereas with Indy, they're all self-contained for the most part.

SPEAKER_02 1:29:00

I agree, I totally agree. Which is interesting. I'm sorry, sorry to go ahead and say which is interesting because from what I've read that George Lucas wanted it, he had a trilogy in mind. So um when he came up with the idea, so I yeah, I'm curious to why they're standalone and not like a continuing story. I think it would have been more you know interesting to see like him on a continuous journey through the three films.

SPEAKER_01 1:29:28

Yeah, that is really interesting. That doesn't uh that doesn't surprise me at all that I that Lucas would want to maybe do a kind of trilogy that continues a story given Star Wars.

SPEAKER_02 1:29:38

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:29:38

But um I wanted to get back to one of Derek's earlier points when he was talking about kind of the evolution of these characters, because it is really interesting that the first film and the third film bring back characters um from the original. And as a writer, I was curious what your thoughts were on the fact that. you know I I think it is I I don't know if there's really any debating. I think Derek is totally right that the characters of Brody and Salah become much more comical. Yeah and and I don't know for lack of a better word like kind of dumbed down. So so where do you stand on that? Do you feel like that's kind of like the writer's prerogative to to do that or do you feel like there should be a sense of um maintaining who that character was from a prior film?

SPEAKER_02 1:30:28

Hmm I think I I am totally for maintaining um the character because although we're not talking about these films but I just I like one of my favorite franchises is the Lord of the rings um and so you you get you know you know what you're gonna get with right with each character per movie and things don't seem necessarily out of character um for those for Sam is Sam is Sam the whole way through away from Sam is Sam the whole way through there there's development.

SPEAKER_04 1:31:02

I mean the characters grow over the course of their journey but they don't turn into completely different characters.

SPEAKER_02 1:31:08

Right uh totally um I I agree with you I do like how Indiana Jones's character what is like he how you he has that flaw like he's afraid of snakes and that's apparent you know that's kind of like the um obstacle or that's thrown at him although he magically always defeats the snakes to get what he wants but still like that I I do like that a lot that's one of my favorite things about this series of films and again like you know not to take too much attention away from Raiders itself but I love when films do throwbacks.

SPEAKER_01 1:31:48

Yeah and and that is I think one of the more fun things I you know I don't know if they do it as much in Temple of Doom but certainly in Last Crusades you know like when he is um going through uh and the name is escaping me of like where the Christians used to bury bury their dead um in Venice yeah yeah there's a uh catacombs yeah yeah okay so when Indy and Elsa are going through the catacombs and they see this drawing of the ark on the wall and so there's like a throwback to Raiders then and to your point about him being afraid of snakes the fact that like his thing is that he's afraid of snakes and at the beginning of Last Crusade you find out why um in the the intro with River Phoenix and in in contrast like his dad's thing is that he's afraid of rats. Yeah and so like I like that they yeah so I do think that's a really smart thing that they do.

SPEAKER_02 1:32:48

I'm wondering if to your point um when we were talking about Lord of the Rings and and for instance Sam is just one character if perhaps you know the fact that Lord of the Rings is really similar to Star Wars in that those three films are a continuation of one story versus these three self-contained the fact that you can maybe get away with uh playing around with characters because it's not a straight continuation exactly yeah because I think it'd be so jarring yeah if yeah yeah I I I think the the the the a positive to doing that is that you can you can build an audience from any film. Unlike Star Wars you literally have to watch Star Wars um to to be able to know what's going on in the universe exactly yep I totally agree with you and that's actually one thing that I really appreciate.

SPEAKER_01 1:33:44

I mean I'm trying to think off the top of my head if well I guess you have the James Bond films where each of those I'm not I'm not I'm certainly not a James Bond aficionado um so I can't claim to have like wealth of knowledge about them but they seem to be self-contained pretty much right there there are like threads that weave themselves through the whole series.

SPEAKER_04 1:34:09

So there are like some points of continuity I think and even with the Daniel Craig ones they've kind of like I think turned parts of it into like prequels to what we normally would consider the traditional Bond setup with like M and Q. So they kind of like did a re a refresh of the whole series with that character I think. But they you you can watch a James Bond movie and not necessarily have to have seen the earlier ones to really be able to follow it and go along like you would with a Star Wars and maybe that's what they're doing.

SPEAKER_01 1:34:39

That's right I thought yeah I mean and that is one thing that you know I think is a big pro of these films is that you you can watch them separately and sure you will get like maybe you won't get the throwback in Last Crusade about the arc if you haven't watched Raiders but but you can still come away and feel like you for the most part got the entirety of the story being told in that particular film.

SPEAKER_04 1:35:03

Yeah if you saw Jedi before seeing a new hope you'd you'd wonder what's happening. You'd be like if you see Last Crusade without seeing Raiders you'd be fine.

SPEAKER_01 1:35:11

Yeah yeah so one big question that I've been meaning to ask you is okay between this series on its own even Raiders as it's its own self-contained film and and then talking about being like a Spielberg fan how do you feel about the way that the music in this film impacts its its resonance with audiences and the fact that like you know this this long standing relationship between Spielberg and Lucas for that matter with John Williams um has created these really iconic scores. I mean do you feel like we we threw this out to our other guest when we were talking about ET do you feel like John Williams elevated the material in Indy to a place where it has secured this this lasting resonance with American culture or do you think that the material as it was presented by Spielberg inspired Williams to create some of his best scores from it?

SPEAKER_02 1:36:23

Hmm that's a tough question so or it could be a little bit of both whatever you feel I don't know if this answers your question but this is the first thing that came to mind is that I don't think it would be as iconic without both of them like I feel like the movie cannot have been as iconic without John Williams score and vice versa so I'm I'm curious what your thoughts are in terms of like to me this isn't just a great adventure film.

SPEAKER_01 1:36:57

This is just a great film. I agree yeah and so in terms of you know you you already being a fan of the certain genre do you think that kind of there are biases that still exist in terms of how we look at films like this and that we look at it more for lack of a better term as like popcorn movies or do you think that we've grown since you know 1981 and and the way that people view these movies in terms of them being true works of art and not just something to be consumed by the masses?

SPEAKER_02 1:37:32

Hmm I I would I would consider it a popcorn movie but I I not like I feel like movies now are way are bad. Not all of them but look you know the action films are a hit or miss. I feel like after the Harry Potters ended and the Lord of the rings ended and the um um the Hobbits like I I outside of the Star Wars I don't really have anything to look forward to oh my goodness I watch this movie and hope that um you know it does something like I haven't been wild in a long time um are you not a big uh Marvel fan then I was I was just I do like Marvel I do I I like the last um Avengers too the um what is it the the what is what was the name of the endgame Infinity War the Infinity War Endgame I think is the last one yeah I really I do like that one for some reason it doesn't excite me like the other ones um yeah it it it's good but those I'm not rushing on opening weekend to see yeah yeah like I can you know and I and I like the Spider-Mans and Captain America is okay for me um but yeah I don't know if it's because I'm older and I tend to like like the older stuff but I do think it holds up um particularly Raiders of the lost arc the other ones are definitely popcorn movie but if I wanted to as a screenwriter right if I wanted to to use that to kind of like study for instance I love how it opens like it it kind of lets you know who the character know it I'm sorry it kind of let lets you know who the character is right away which is kind of hard to do you know I I know you write as well Anna and and it's like how do I show the world who this character is and I feel like um the opening shows us who Indiana Jones is there's no doubt we we learn like you know what is his strengths we learn about his weaknesses we learn like what he's he's up against um right in the very beginning and I'm hooked within the first few minutes of the film and it's really hard to do that um so I think that film is a great example of that and also raising the stakes and obstacles like you get that throughout the movie like one thing happens and another you know this happens and then something else happens that makes it worse and you're thinking oh crap how's he gonna get out of this it seems impossible you know tough because um they literally raised the stakes to biblical levels you know at the end um it's rare that at the end of a movie like the real evil legitimately evil bad guys are like melted down to liquid by the power of God like that right that is a great comeuppance right I mean so yeah I think it it's definitely a popcorn movie but I feel like there is like such a strength in how the characters are are developed and like fleshed out in that movie.

SPEAKER_04 1:40:52

And I think if there's a difference between like how it would feel about that era of a of an adventure movie versus modern movies I don't know if this is correct or not but I I get the sense that it's it's a little bit easier to say that we'll be able to do anything we want on the screen because of the the changes in visual effects. Whereas before those limiting factors almost like forced a certain level of creativity and how we want to present all of this stuff in a way and and for films that have done that really successfully like Raiders I think that's part of why it still holds up so well. Absolutely and I mean I think Kamicia can attest to this you know as a writer or a filmmaker you're often told that constraints can make you better and and in some cases now there aren't any like the the fast movies are are like popcorn movies where on the latest trailer someone is literally like swinging around an island with their like car connected to a cable or something and I'm like that's crazy. But I know people are gonna love it. Right. But it's just it's just there are no limits.

SPEAKER_01 1:41:54

There there are no limits and literally Kamicia when you were speaking a minute ago I was just nodding my head the entirety of the time that you were talking as Derek yeah as Derek can attest because I think you are so right about everything that you said and and also I agree with Derek's point that you know be between what both of you said you know you mentioned um Lord of the Rings and kind of after that era of films coming out yeah I haven't really seen anything that gets me really excited. And I maybe it's a combination of factors. Maybe you're right it has something to do with getting older and maybe not having that kind of um excitement and I don't know curiosity about these films. But I think also some Derek's point I think is completely right about you know I mean look this is a conversation for another podcast episode but we can we can definitely go down a rabbit hole in talking about the Star Wars prequels.

SPEAKER_02 1:42:55

Oh and I didn't watch I don't know if I watched did I watch those I don't no I did not I mean it's okay it's okay I watched yeah totally can the original um three and then the last the last series um right because I think they go together.

SPEAKER_01 1:43:12

So yeah and yes I mean you are definitely not alone in terms of not having seen the prequels or even being compelled to watch the prequels because it's the same scenario where at this point and like look it's it was his prerogative to do whatever he wanted you know but Lucas at that point had no constraints and I think that really took away from the the the outcome even the digital effects weren't weren't ready.

SPEAKER_04 1:43:44

Like they they kind of approached it from the perspective of we can do anything with these. Yeah. And the reality was no you you really couldn't yet and you know if you look at the what the Marvel movies have done versus like the prequels is as far as far as effects go. Like the Marvel movies there's a scene where a giant purple alien bad guy literally throws a moon or an asteroid into someone and it kind of looks real you know versus the the prequels where there was just so much of it and it it was close but it just wasn't ready. And then you know I can I can look at a bunch of guys melting into wax and I think that looks realer than a lot of stuff I've seen when the digital stuff was really ramping up but wasn't quite there yet.

SPEAKER_01 1:44:28

There's just something visceral about those films from the 80s with the practical effects that something melted. It wasn't a person but something no something melted and and I think that that brings a level of realism even though it maybe wasn't executed to the point where you're like oh that's completely how that would look if somebody's face melted off I don't want to know yeah I don't want to know but um but I think that there's something that an audience can connect to more intimately because it just feels more real. Yeah. And I think also to your point Camisio when you were talking about the Marvel movies I mean look I'm in the same boat. You know we've seen most of them but I'm not gonna say out of it was a chore or an obligation to go see them but why are you laughing?

SPEAKER_02 1:45:13

Derek's laughing at you I'm laughing because it it it didn't start off that way but as they started releasing so many of them I think we yeah I agree it was I literally had to sit down I I forgot the first Avengers movies I first Avenger movie I haven't seen I didn't see um all the Captain Americas or and so my boyfriend made me sit down he was like you cannot go in here without seeing this embarrassing I won't let you do it hilarious so so I I went back and watched all of them and I was like okay but it wasn't in the beginning it did feel like a chore um right and and then I kind of got got caught you of course as movie lovers like you you watch you try to watch everything right you know especially what's in and so but I I can say they were they're enjoyable but it still doesn't give me the same you know it's not the same as you know the other stuff that I totally agree and and I mean there are some standouts within those almost 20 movies you know like I would say that um Captain America Civil War is a standout among them.

SPEAKER_01 1:46:25

Yeah obviously Black Panther is a standout which I think between Black Panther and uh Endgame I think they're the only two that were nominated for Best Picture.

SPEAKER_02 1:46:35

Yeah and Black Panther was like for me it was groundbreaking. I loved it um but it made me real I don't know why well I do know why but I felt like I was conditioned to see superheroes a certain way and after seeing Black Panther I realized man some of my favorite movies lack diversity.

SPEAKER_01 1:46:56

Oh absolutely and I was like Lord of the Rings I don't even I don't know why it didn't cross my mind did they even have a person of color in that movie apparently that whole world they're all white yeah unless you're what one of those ogres which yeah that's they're not even human that's not cool that's not cool okay right so that it kind of like it kind of made me feel sad because I was like wow I can't believe that I love this series so much.

SPEAKER_04 1:47:21

And how do you I mean I I I like Black Panther but actually one of the things that I liked most about Black Panther was Michael B. Jordan as the villain yeah I thought he was like one of the one of the more compelling villains that they've had in a lot of the Marvel movies. But I also felt kind of bad because I feel like Wesley Snipes is getting no love as being blade.

SPEAKER_02 1:47:42

Right you know I'm looking forward to Mahershula being the new blade I I think yeah I think he's I think he's phenomenal um and I love Wesley Snipes as well. I don't know what happened to Wesley. I'm glad he had and this is not related to the but I I love that he made a really good comeback in Dolomite.

SPEAKER_01 1:48:01

I don't know if you had the opportunity to see that oh yeah yeah he um also if I don't know if you're and now we're really going out of the talk as later as we could possibly but it's it's important it's important it needs to be said.

SPEAKER_02 1:48:16

So I don't know if are you a fan of the show What We Do in the Shadows you know what I've seen the movie I have not started the show but I've heard really great things about it.

SPEAKER_01 1:48:26

It's it is fantastic and Wesley Snipes has a cameo and I don't want to really reveal anything else but if you you know kind of put two and two together the fact that we just mentioned the movie Blade. Yeah yeah so and it's in the first season so uh so you wouldn't it wouldn't take too long for you to get to that point. Okay.

SPEAKER_02 1:48:47

Yeah I'm looking for that watch.

SPEAKER_01 1:48:50

Yeah exactly I know aren't we all um but and and you know what I'm sorry because I think earlier we had stopped you from talking about um when you were mentioning the Lord of the Rings series and the fact that there was like this lack of diversity and the fact that like it hadn't necessarily occurred to you earlier. Please yeah please go ahead with that.

SPEAKER_02 1:49:12

I just feel like growing up like we've been conditioned to see these movies be I think I've been conditioned to to see these movies without or being okay not necessarily okay but I guess tolerant of movies not having diversity and and liking them anyway. And um so I think for for me and of course I've I started to realize this as I've gotten older and have really been paying attention about um what's going on in terms of people of color and entertainment but Black Panther really resonated with me in terms of like wow you know it's great to see people of color um and action adventure movies because those movies hold a special place in my heart and it's really great to see people who look like me in those and I'm I can't imagine what it does to young kids growing up. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:50:07

Beautifully stated and definitely agree and so even though you know maybe between the three of us there is not the degree of like personal like resonance and love as maybe with something like Raiders I do think that you know those things aside there is progress being made yeah I do I totally agree.

SPEAKER_02 1:50:31

And Star Wars was diverse you know absolutely yeah with um Billy D. Williams um yes I thought and dark Vader with um James Earl Jones um being the voice of dark Vader so there have been instances but it needs to be more consistent it needs to be something that is is always part of the conversation and not something that's an outlier.

SPEAKER_04 1:50:59

Right totally so yeah it needs to be part of the conversation until you can watch a movie like Black Panther and not think about it.

SPEAKER_02 1:51:06

Yeah to where you're just you know the way that we would watch something like Raiders and not think about the diversity or or lack thereof will hopefully eventually get to a point where you would see a movie like Black Panther and and just be able to enjoy the movie without having to think about right yeah be yeah be able to enjoy it as a movie and not but it did strike me at a deeper level though it was an emotional level that I didn't it was something I didn't know I needed until I saw it.

SPEAKER_01 1:51:35

Exactly yeah oh that's great I mean that I can't imagine a better um a better way to like this is a you know kind of a dramatic word but like give tribute to a film like that. So I hope that when we move forward when the world resumes and we're able to move forward that um that that like I said and like like we've all been saying that that there will be a Black Panther too right yeah I've I've heard I've been hearing mixed things about who's gonna direct and star in it but you know hopefully they bring back some of the same people and I'm super excited about I didn't realize that Maherschalley had signed up to be the next blade. Yes that's amazing that that is gonna be awesome. That's gonna be awesome. So on that note this has been so much fun. Yes it has we I'm glad that you had fun too because this has been just like really great time for us to talk to you and and your love of this film and the way that it has been part of your childhood and then life moving on into adulthood it has just been awesome to listen to how how this film and this series has impacted you. So Kamicia thank you so much for being our guest today we really appreciate your time and I wanted to just you know I know that you know things are a little sideways now with the world but I wanted to see if you have any projects that you're working on or just you know see what's been going on in your life lately.

SPEAKER_02 1:53:09

Yes um I have a short film on the festival circuit called Disney's Road. It is currently in the inspired faith faith film festival which is happening this weekend and also um is coming another film festival is playing in is the Compassion Film Festival. Yeah it will be on um it will be playing there virtually from August 7th through August 9th you can purchase tickets um through by going to their website or you can visit my website and click on my blog and I have um screening schedule posted there where you can also purchase tickets.

SPEAKER_01 1:53:50

That's fantastic. And I know that this short has been doing really well through the festival circuit so congratulations on on both these upcoming screenings but everything that has happened previous because I you know you and I are friends and so I see posts and I'm like so thrilled for you. It's it's been it's had a really strong showing so congratulations. Thank you and same for you too oh thank you we're we're getting there we uh we actually are having our cast and crews screening this weekend and then you know we'll see what goes from there.

SPEAKER_02 1:54:23

I'm excited I can't wait to see it.

SPEAKER_01 1:54:25

I know I know thank you for your support with that and also I saw some news come through this week about something very awesome and cool and exciting for you from women in film. So please let us know what that's all about.

SPEAKER_02 1:54:41

Yes I've been selected for the mentoring program for women in film um as a multi-hyphenite person as a writer director producer um and so I'll be a mentee in a mentor circle and we'll get some career guidance through this year and next year.

SPEAKER_01 1:54:59

Which is huge. That's honestly a tremendous honor uh I know that the individuals that they select for those types of programs it's not taken lightly and you deserve every bit of that so congratulations on that I'm so excited to see what that does for you over the next year. So lots of awesome stuff happening for you which is fantastic because like again given the state of things right now it's it's just really great to hear good news about good people who deserve that. So congratulations on all fronts.

SPEAKER_02 1:55:31

Oh thank you so much I really appreciate it.

SPEAKER_01 1:55:33

Of course and thank you again for being part of the show and definitely the the the invite is always there if you want to come back so we would love to have you on again.

SPEAKER_04 1:55:44

Yeah I would always be uh welcome to a bonus episode of ET.

SPEAKER_01 1:55:49

Yeah yes so much fun thank you both and so that was our conversation with writer director producer Kamicia Woten.

SPEAKER_04 1:56:01

Oh a lot of hyphens.

SPEAKER_01 1:56:03

Which she's fantastic at all great yeah yeah and so as always a really great conversation and for all of you out there if you have the means definitely check out her short it's called Destiny's Road and it's been doing awesome through the festival circuit. Okay so I mean how do you feel about like watching this movie again?

SPEAKER_04 1:56:25

I mean I feel so strongly about it. I feel that maybe we should just watch it every Saturday in some capacity.

SPEAKER_01 1:56:31

Maybe it's just on background so just basically exactly yeah it's a good movie um I don't want to say it's a good movie to go to sleep to but there's something about it that's so comforting that if we have it on yeah I think it's definitely one of those films that is so familiar to us at this point that it it has that effect. So agreed.

SPEAKER_04 1:56:56

We're gonna be watching this many many times over the bigger question is whether I will watch uh Indiana Jones and the Kingdom of the Crystal Skull again.

SPEAKER_01 1:57:05

At some point. Yeah I mean you said you you said you would I will it'll happen. Okay. So call to action I was thinking about this. I think it would be kind of fun you know Kamicia mentioned that this film for a time inspired her she thought she was going to be an archaeologist someday.

SPEAKER_04 1:57:22

A lot of people thought they were going to be because after this movie uh interest in the field of archaeology increased so significantly that additional courses and oh that's really cool. Yeah and people were enrolling because they were just like fascinated by the subject.

SPEAKER_01 1:57:37

I think that a lot of people have an attraction to that and like you know just ancient history and and finding perhaps these baubles that have some kind of historical significance. So I wanted to maybe just put it out there that if you were ever going to go on an adventure of this, what would you want to go after? And it could I mean it could be really broad and big like you know some people would want to find the lost city of Atlantis and some people think that there's you know arc hanging out somewhere still you know so what would be the thing that you would want to try to find that's a good one. Oh thank you.

SPEAKER_04 1:58:15

Yeah I don't know what I would what I what would I try to find I'd have to have a think on that one. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:58:19

But if you want to let us know you can get in contact with us through Facebook or Twitter or Instagram. It's the same handle for all three. It's at 80smontage pod and we would absolutely love to hear from you.

SPEAKER_04 1:58:31

My call to action I just made it up right now.

SPEAKER_01 1:58:34

Okay.

SPEAKER_04 1:58:35

If if the role of Indiana Jones had been played by um the Magnum PI as opposed to Harrison Ford would you want to see Indy with or without the mustache?

SPEAKER_01 1:58:48

Okay that's a good one. Yeah good job so moving on so okay so we have actually a couple things to bring up okay a couple last pieces of business so in two weeks' time as we normally do we're gonna have our new episode Derek's pick.

SPEAKER_04 1:59:08

What is it?

SPEAKER_01 1:59:09

I'm gonna tell you I'm not gonna tell you okay it is Tim Burton's 1989 Batman. Yeah so great film. So we will have that in two weeks time as we normally do but we're also gonna have a bonus episode.

SPEAKER_04 1:59:27

This is very exciting it's very exciting. I mean I'm not even joking it really is it it really is exciting.

SPEAKER_01 1:59:32

So we will have that in between our two normal episodes because we usually do every other week and so I'm gonna kind of actually just leave it at that.

SPEAKER_03 1:59:41

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:59:41

Uh I wanna I wanna keep our viewers invested and listening.

SPEAKER_04 1:59:45

So bonus I'm not gonna divul divulge too much. I'm just gonna say that when we say bonus episode, we are we're offering bonus coverage in some way on a film that we have already covered. Yes. And we have a good reason to do so. We have a very good reason to do so.

SPEAKER_01 2:00:02

So that's all we say. Yeah. All right, everyone. Thank you for hanging with us, and we will see you next time.