'80s Movie Montage
Breaking down our favorite decade of flicks. Hosted by Anna Keizer and Derek Dehanke.
'80s Movie Montage
The NeverEnding Story
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With special guest Mike Anderson, Anna and Derek take a deep dive into the wonderful world that is Fantasia in Wolfgang Petersen's The NeverEnding Story (1984).
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Anna Keizer and Derek Dehanke are the co-hosts of ‘80s Movie Montage. The idea for the podcast came when they realized just how much they talk – a lot – when watching films from their favorite cinematic era. Their wedding theme was “a light nod to the ‘80s,” so there’s that, too. Both hail from the Midwest but have called Los Angeles home for several years now. Anna is a writer who received her B.A. in Film/Video from Columbia College Chicago and M.A. in Film Studies from Chapman University. Her dark comedy short She Had It Coming was an Official Selection of 25 film festivals with several awards won for it among them. Derek is an attorney who also likes movies. It is a point of pride that most of their podcast episodes are longer than the movies they cover.
Hello and welcome to 80s movie montage. This is Derek.
SPEAKER_01:And this is Moonchild.
SPEAKER_02:And this is the never-ending story.
SPEAKER_01:This is really Anna. I'm not really Moonchild, although I envy that name. That's a pretty cool name.
SPEAKER_02:It's a cool name. I didn't actually know that was the name that he was shouting. And of course, that was the kind of the climax of the movie where Bastion has to give the child like childlike Empress her new name, which of course is his uh deceased mother's name. And we then find out, or in my case, I found out like 30 years later that his mom's name was Moonchild.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, and we get into that with our special guest, uh Mike Anderson today. How interesting that is and what that like how that kind of informs his character.
SPEAKER_02:We'll get to him in a couple hours.
SPEAKER_01:We'll get into him in a bit. Um but yeah, so today our episode is about the never-ending story. It was released in 1984. And I'm going to just we do have quite a bit that we talk about with our special guests. So I'm just gonna jump right in with everything. Yeah. So this was okay. So actually, I think other than the Princess Bride, I don't know if we've had any other episodes where the movie was based on like source material of an existing book.
SPEAKER_02:I don't maybe, but not quite as closely related those two are. Like the never ending story and the princess bride are both like books come to life.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, exactly. And so yes, so this is based on a novel of the same name by a gentleman named Michael Ende. I'm going to say.
SPEAKER_02:I mean, that works. That works for me. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:I feel like there's not a lot more to like to be able to elaborate on that name.
SPEAKER_02:I mean, yeah. Endy.
SPEAKER_01:Endy, maybe?
unknown:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:So so it's based on his book. And what what is really interesting about this particular movie is that actually it has like German roots. It was a German production.
SPEAKER_00:German book, right? German book.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. And so as you will begin to see as I go through all these different names that are um attached to the film, they're all pretty much German. So so it's yeah, interesting how that all came in play because it's obviously a film that was shot in English and appeals obviously to a huge English audience or American audience.
SPEAKER_02:And nevertheless, there are there is a German version, and the differences between the US and German versions are numerous.
SPEAKER_00:Ooh, uh there are so many uh differences. Okay.
SPEAKER_02:All these like slight minor differences that probably would uh would give the viewer a different experience.
SPEAKER_01:Okay, cool. Well, we'll get into that. Okay, so based off his novel, and then as far as the actual screenplay goes, it's a shared credit between Hermann Weigel and then the director of the film, Wolfgang Peterson. If ever there was a German first name, Wolfgang is it. Um so they split the credit for the screenplay. And then also I thought this was really interesting because I noticed another name that had a credit under uh the written by credit, Robert Easton. And so I did a little investigation on this guy. So he was actually the dialect coach on the never-ending story. Okay, and that is like a big part of what his like job was. Like that's what he did for a lot of films. And so my guess is that through him being a dialect coach, I don't know if there were like maybe certain phrases that were particularly difficult for like the actors to say. Maybe he suggested some changes because his like uh his credit is actually additional dialogue. So so I thought that was kind of interesting that they gave him like props for that.
SPEAKER_05:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:But he also actually he has like, and you know what? I I always part I I'm sorry if I'm the only one that finds this interesting, but I always find it really fascinating that for people who work in the industry, the a lot of the times they're like doing a lot of different things. They're hustlers. Yeah. And so, in addition to being a dialect coach for a lot of films, he also was an actor. And he has over 150 acting credits.
SPEAKER_02:Um I wonder if he would say that he is an actor who's also done some dialect coaching.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, probably. But yeah, he uh he has some interesting credits. Um, he had like bit parts, for instance, in Working Girl, Star Trek VI, Undiscovered Country, Pet Cemetery 2, okay and primary cover. So anyway, I just always find that really interesting how people come and go through the industry. Okay. So moving on to the director that I already mentioned, Wolfgang Peterson. So this is a guy that like he did a lot of really big uh American films as well. I mean, like, to let me preface this by saying that most of the people that I'm bringing up have very accomplished careers within what appears to be German cinema and German entertainment. So as we kind of did with um Raiders of the Lost Ark, where there were a lot of um individuals who were from Great Britain and had really established careers, although I didn't feel like perhaps our audience would be as familiar with some of those credits, that's what I did here. So, you know, I I want to give due diligence in terms of saying that like all these people have other credits that you should definitely go check out. Um, but as far as the ones that probably our audience is familiar with, um so I remember this film, like I remember the name as a child, Das Boot.
SPEAKER_02:Oh, yeah, the submarine movie, right?
SPEAKER_01:I guess. Yeah. I never saw it.
SPEAKER_02:I believe I believe that's what it is.
SPEAKER_01:Okay. So director behind that, but then we have In the Line of Fire Glenn Eastwood.
SPEAKER_02:Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Outbreak. It's a pretty good movie. Outbreak. You know, Outbreak for reasons that are obvious to anyone who's listening to this podcast in 2020. Like it's popular, but I'm not gonna watch that.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, I mean I I've seen it, but I don't need to see it again. Air Force One.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, get off my plane.
SPEAKER_01:Get off my plane. The perfect storm.
SPEAKER_02:Okay.
SPEAKER_01:Troy and Poseidon. So he definitely has a genre that he likes.
SPEAKER_02:I don't think I've ever seen Poseidon. I'm aware of Poseidon, though.
SPEAKER_01:Poseidon.
SPEAKER_02:Poseidon.
SPEAKER_01:So so that is Wolfgang Peterson. So yeah. Okay.
SPEAKER_02:He's also in he he appears uncredited in the movie, right?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, I did see that. Is he uh I'm sorry?
SPEAKER_02:I think he's I think he's one of the random guys that freaks out when Falkor comes flying down.
SPEAKER_01:Is he the guy with the briefcase?
SPEAKER_02:Yes, he is.
SPEAKER_01:Which like for sure he is?
SPEAKER_02:Uh yeah, he is uh wait, is he no, he is man who drops milk. So maybe if he had a briefcase full of milk, did the briefcase was it labeled as milk?
SPEAKER_01:I doubt it. I doubt it. Okay. And for everybody who's like, what are they talking about?
SPEAKER_02:We get into this with our special guest about three hours when we're on our on our call with uh Mike.
SPEAKER_01:So, okay, yeah, that's really interesting. Okay, so cinematography by a gentleman named Yost Volcano.
SPEAKER_02:This is gonna be a challenge, isn't it? I know.
SPEAKER_01:I I I'm so sorry if I say any of these names again. We are doing our best. So he also was the guy who shot Das Boot. So has a little bit of a relationship, I guess, there with Peterson.
SPEAKER_02:We could just get like a text-to-speech thing and just have like Adobe read these names out and it would give its best shot too.
SPEAKER_01:Sure. I mean, next time.
SPEAKER_02:Moving on.
SPEAKER_01:Moving on. What you might know him from is that he was the DP for Robocop. Oh, the the original Robocop? Nice. As well as the original Total Recall.
SPEAKER_02:Those are both great, kind of hilariously hyper-violent movies.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, so again, a little bit of a well, here's what's funny is that so he pivots from Total Recall to Untamed Heart.
SPEAKER_02:They're I mean spiritual successor.
SPEAKER_01:And he has the uh look, films give people work. I'm not gonna throw too much shade, but he is the guy also who shot showgirls. Well, and then he comes back with star sh uh Starship Troopers.
SPEAKER_02:Which is like it was kind of an underrated movie. I don't know if it's overrated now. It's become kind of like one of those meme tastic movies.
SPEAKER_01:It definitely has a cult following. Yeah, no, it's for sure.
SPEAKER_02:It does, yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. So so yeah, some of his credits. Um, as far as editor, it was by a woman by the name of Jane Seitz.
SPEAKER_02:Got it.
SPEAKER_01:So I I hope that's correct.
SPEAKER_02:Um I choose to believe that all your pronunciations are either correct or so close as to be indistinguishable from the credit.
SPEAKER_01:I'll stop putting out that disclaimer. Just gonna say I try my best, people. Um, so really the only other credit that I could find for her, because unfortunately she passed away um uh shortly after the film, uh, a couple years after the film was completed. Um, The Name of the Rose. Oh. Was another one of her credits that she cut. Yeah. So another great film. Okay. So, unlike a lot of this is another reason why this film is a little bit different than some of the other films that we've done because let's get to this heavy hitting cast. Yeah, exactly. So we have multiple child actors in this film who kind of all went on to different paths and didn't necessarily continue uh to be actors in industry.
SPEAKER_02:Two actors in this movie that I think people will recognize even if they can't quite place it.
SPEAKER_01:One of them's Bastion's yeah, we'll get to him.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, Gerald McCrainy, Major Dad, and then Moses Gunn, who, like, I'm sure people have seen Moses Gunn in a ton of things. He's the person who who gives Atreo his uh his quest, I believe.
SPEAKER_01:Oh, okay, okay. Got it, got it.
SPEAKER_02:And he's been in a ton of stuff.
SPEAKER_01:Okay, cool. Yeah, it's actually kind of the adults in the film who actually kind of stayed in the industry and have all these credits, and the kids are kind of like, what ups? Starting with Barrett Oliver. So he's only ever called Bastion in the film, but uh when I was like kind of doing my research on this episode and knowing that this was the story was pulled from a book. So you want to know what his full name is? Do you know what it is?
SPEAKER_02:I have no idea.
SPEAKER_01:Bastion Balthazar Books.
SPEAKER_02:Wait, what's his last name?
SPEAKER_01:B-U-X Books.
SPEAKER_02:Books? Holy shit. His last name is Books.
SPEAKER_01:BBB.
SPEAKER_02:Okay.
SPEAKER_01:Uh, so I thought that was really fun.
SPEAKER_02:He he does love books.
SPEAKER_01:He loves books.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:He has what, a hundred 186 of them, I think he says.
SPEAKER_02:He has a number that I I think he got that number of books from whoever came up with all the fake records at the end of Bloodsport. And that's not the first Bloodsport connection.
SPEAKER_01:Uh yeah, we'll get there. We'll get there. So he already had been doing some work uh before this film came along. Like he, I mean, he's he was a child actor, so it's not like he was really in anything um like longstanding, but like he had the starring role on The Incredible Hawk.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:He was on Knight Rider, he was on Highway to Heaven.
SPEAKER_02:Wasn't he Daryl?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, yeah, yeah. Sorry. That well, that that's like definitely something that was like more you and Mike. Like it wasn't something that I watched.
SPEAKER_02:Daryl was a box office hit.
SPEAKER_01:Was it?
SPEAKER_02:Everyone saw that and everyone loved it.
SPEAKER_01:I'm more connected with him nah, that's like a strong way of saying that. But like I also know him from Cocoon.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah. So I didn't know he was in that.
SPEAKER_01:I I mean I see that he is, but yeah, I and then he did the return as well, cocoon the return. Um, but then you know what? Like I said, kind of after that, and I know you know I had to do some research research on him for something else. Like now he's like a photography guy, he's like um teaches photography, kind of just doing his own thing. So so that is Barrett Oliver. Moving on to the actor who plays Atreyu, Noah Hathaway. Pretty sure I got that one right.
SPEAKER_05:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:So kind of the same thing. So he again had had some credits under his bell before this film came along. He was in the like 70s version of Battlestar Galactica.
SPEAKER_02:Which could not yeah.
SPEAKER_01:The the more modern version is Yeah, you're really into that modern.
SPEAKER_02:I enjoy the modern version much more, but I'm familiar with the old, old version of Battlestar Galactica.
SPEAKER_01:That's interesting.
SPEAKER_02:I've never You never seen any of it?
SPEAKER_01:The old one for sure, no. And and you have introduced me to the new one, but I didn't really stick with it. So moving on. Uh he guest on Morkamin D. Okay. Love that one. Eight is Enough, Laverne and Shirley, Chips, like all the like greatest hits of the late 70s, early 80s sitcoms. Um, and family ties for that matter. So, so he uh was part of all that, or like had guest appearances. Um, and then you know, very similarly, I mean, I think he more so than Barrett.
SPEAKER_02:And also he was in 1986's Troll, the horror movie.
SPEAKER_01:Oh, nice. Yeah, um, so so yeah, so that is and again, kind of unlike a lot of the other films that we have covered so far, we're gonna just like busting through all these different credits. Moving on to Tammy Stranoch. I hope that's right. Uh so she was the childlike empress.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, she was great.
SPEAKER_01:And we we actually kind of go down this path with our special guest.
SPEAKER_02:We talk about her greatness in depth.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, in only four hours. And and you know what, her and the two boys, like they they all did a really amazing job. But um, what we talk about with our special guest is kind of the fact that, you know, she this was her very first uh acting credit. I mean, she knocked it out of the park, and then she, you know, went on and like lived her life for quite a while. And now she has like a couple other credits, like she has something from 2008, a couple from 2017. But um, I think she just, you know, again, decided to do other things with her life. And so that is Tammy. All right, moving on to the adults in this film, uh, who I think a lot. So the first one is Bastion's dad. Like you you already mentioned him, Gerald McRainey. Um, he's like another one of those guys where you're like, I don't that name does not sound familiar to me. But if you saw a picture of him, you'd be like, oh yeah, yeah, totally know that guy.
SPEAKER_02:Simon and Simon, major dad.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. So yeah.
SPEAKER_02:Disgusting breakfast.
SPEAKER_01:Very, very long, uh, accomplished career, which for the most part takes place in TV land. He's done a ton of TV. And as we've talked about with a couple other of our episodes, one thing that I think is hilarious is that so he was on like multiple episodes of, for instance, the Rockford Files where he plays different characters.
SPEAKER_02:Oh, okay. That's always fun. I love that.
SPEAKER_01:And then also, same thing for The Incredible Hulk. He had multiple appearances on that where he's just somebody different every time. But yeah, probably his like biggest credit is he's Rick Simon from Simon and Simon.
SPEAKER_05:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:So, which I was surprised. I mean, like, look, I was too young to like be into this show. Never watched a single episode of it, never watched a single episode.
SPEAKER_02:Um had had commercials for Simon and Simon just like beaten me down.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, like I think I can remember the theme song to it, I think. Yeah. Um, I feel like that's more familiar to me than the show.
SPEAKER_02:I don't want that in my head right now, but yeah.
SPEAKER_01:But uh, but I was surprised to see that like I didn't realize like that show went on for so long. I think it was like from 81 to 89. So I was like, good on them. He's gone. I don't know though. I never see any reruns of it, so I don't know what he's getting in way of residuals.
SPEAKER_02:It's out there, it's out there somewhere.
SPEAKER_01:You mentioned though, so yes, that he moved on to like a ton of other series. I mean, it's really impressive. He was Major Dad in Major Dad. He was also in Touched by an Angel, Deadwood, Jericho, Southland, Comedy, Mike and Molly. Okay. Uh, also House of Cards, and he's currently on This Is Us. So, like, that's and that's just a couple of his credits.
SPEAKER_02:I mean, he he is like legitimately pretty talented. I mean, he's a good actor, and it so it makes his appearance in the never-ending story seem like he he basically is just playing this totally straight-laced, kind of boring like you just gotta take care of. Sorry, son, I know that uh your mom recently died, but we got homework. We got we got a math test.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:He uh has his disgusting breakfast of orange juice with an egg mixed into it, and then that's the last we see of him.
SPEAKER_01:I and you know what that it doesn't come up with our uh guess because I mean we covered some so much other aspects of this film, but I did think that that was really interesting is that you the film begins with Bastion and his dad. I mean, they they set up the dynamic of their relationship very clearly, but then what I find really interesting is there's never really any resolution to that, whether that is his dad not being on board with him, kind of embracing this like fantasy world life of his, or maybe coming around to it. I thought that was really interesting because then you just have the introduction of his dad, and like you said, he just then goes away, never comes back. But that might be because of what we talk about with Mike in terms of you know, spoiler, this film only covers the first half of the book.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:So it's very possible that there is more that is involves the dad, and we just never get to it.
SPEAKER_02:So I don't yeah, my my knowledge of the never ending story is really pretty tightly contained to this movie. I mean don't really have many memories of the sequel. I know there was a third, I think, as well. But I I'm not familiar with the book and I never saw the sequel, so I don't know. Maybe where the sequel leaves off, it doesn't lend itself to an opportunity for Bastion to come back and have another interaction with his dad. Yeah. I don't know.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. So okay, moving on to Thomas Hill, who uh his name is never brought up in the film, so you wouldn't know him by his name, but he is basically the um bookstore guy.
SPEAKER_02:Oh, okay.
SPEAKER_01:And again, pulling from the novel, you want to hear what this guy's name is?
SPEAKER_02:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Our author of this book really liked alliteration because this guy's name is Carl Conrad Coriander. CCC. So we have BBB and CCC.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, I mean, aside from the the fun of the abbreviated like C cubed and B cubed, I like that he's named after like a cooking utensil.
unknown:Coriander.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, I so I find that really interesting. I mean, the guy had fun with names, so that's great. And you know what's interesting about this guy too is that you know, as soon as you see him, I was like, yeah, he's really familiar to me. I know I've seen him on something else, but I was kind of going through his credits, and again, he has he has not not nearly as extensive as Gerald McRae, but he has a you know some credits to his name. I couldn't really find anything that I was like, oh, that's where I know him from. So I don't know why he looks so familiar. I mean among some of his credits. Um, something called Wizards and Warriors, don't know it. The only one that like looked familiar to me personally was like New Heart. I didn't watch that show.
SPEAKER_02:I know what I recognize him from.
SPEAKER_01:What?
SPEAKER_02:From Clint Eastwood's 1982 Firefox.
SPEAKER_00:Oh, okay.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, he's in that. I can't remember his actual, like it says General Brown, so I I kind of remember that character, but yeah. Firefox is a weird 80s movie where Clint Eastwood uh sneaks into Russia and steals a jet.
SPEAKER_01:Okay. Alright. Um, and then Thomas Hill comes back for the never-ending story to the next chapter.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, it's his book still. I mean, it's his book still. Still his book.
SPEAKER_01:I mean, Bastion stole it. Okay, so another actor who is like, oh yeah, I totally know that face is Deep Roy.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah. Yeah, I'm glad you I'm glad you uh are covering this guy.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, he deserves to be. Um, so again, I don't know if his name is really ever said I feel like a lot of names are just never even said.
SPEAKER_02:No, I yeah, I think people who were fans of the book probably saw these characters and instantly knew who they were and knew who the names were. But for people who just watched the movie, I don't think like 95% of them, unless your name's Atreyu, Artax, I'm assuming her name is actually Childlike Empress.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, like that's what she's called.
SPEAKER_02:And uh Bastion. But other than those names. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Um, but nobody else is really referred to by name.
SPEAKER_02:So certainly not Teeny Weenie.
SPEAKER_01:Right. So that is his name in the book or in the movie as well. But um to give you context of who this person is, so he is the character who rides that racing snail.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Um, who we see in the beginning when we're kind of being introduced to the world of Fantasia.
SPEAKER_02:The rock biter almost rolls over them. Right. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. So this guy, again, crazy credits.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Um, you know, had to like really pare down the ones that I was gonna bring up. But among some of his credits, so he was in Doctor the TV show Doctor Who. But I'm guessing that's also like what we were talking about with Battles uh Battlestar Galactica or Battleship. Galactica. What is it?
SPEAKER_02:Um Battlestar Galactica is the name of the show. Right, right, right. It it is so different from the Star Trek universe. They're they're very different in how they've like built their worlds.
SPEAKER_01:Right, no, but I'm saying that like so there's been different versions of that show, and I'm guessing there's been different versions of the Doctor Who show.
SPEAKER_02:Oh, that's what I'm trying to get. Yeah, I'm not as familiar with Doctor Who. I know that there are like different iterations of the Doctor. And so I don't know that they've ever that if it like remakes or if it's just as like this like ongoing, it just never ends, and they just like put in a new doctor and have new things happen.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, he wasn't the doctor, but he's he was in one of those iterations of Doctor Who. Also, though, like a little bit more recently, um, how the Grinch stole Christmas he was in, The Haunted Mansion, Big Fish. So this is where I was like, oh yeah, that's where I know I'm from.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Charlie and the chocolate factory.
SPEAKER_02:That's yeah, because that when I saw him, when you and you click on him, that's the first thing you see is uh Johnny Depp and Louie Wonko. Yeah, so I saw him on that, and what a varied career he's had because he's been in anything from that to Transformers, Revenge of the Fallen to uh episodes of Eastbound and Down.
SPEAKER_01:I have that down as well, and I was like, huh, I'm trying to remember where I know because we watched that show, so um, and then you you already mentioned it. So he's been in all the more recent Star Trek movies, and he plays a character named Keener. I don't know. I again I'm not a trekie.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, I I I can't place him. Like I I know that he in particular he has a credit for as that Keenser character in Into Darkness, which I think was the second of the of the new Star Trek.
SPEAKER_01:Because yeah, he's in Star Trek, Star Trek Into Darkness, Star Trek Beyond.
SPEAKER_02:He's been in all of them. Okay, yeah, I think there's only been those three. Yeah. Um those are different. And so like Battlestar Galactica is different from Star Trek, and then the new uh JJ Abrams Star Treks are often thought of as different from the classic or the next generation. It's a whole rabbit hole. And we only have like six hours to get to our guests, so okay.
SPEAKER_01:So I'm gonna actually throw it over to you because you mentioned another actor that I hadn't put him down, um, but the gentleman who kind of explains the dire situation that Fantasia is in.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, I think I think that was Moses Gun, right?
SPEAKER_01:You tell me, sir.
SPEAKER_02:I I believe so. He's been in uh we got another Clint Eastwood movie. He was in Heartbreak Ridge, he was in Firestarter, he was in Shaft. Firestarter with Drew Barrymore? Yes.
SPEAKER_00:Cool.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, so he's been in a ton. Anything from uh, like I said, Shaft to an episode of Tales from the Crypt. He's got a pretty long, uh prolific acting career.
SPEAKER_01:So I kind of recognized him, but I didn't recognize I gotta be honest, I didn't recognize him.
SPEAKER_02:He did have uh some The voice, I think I recognize as much as anything. He's a very like James Earl Jones type I mean the reason I looked him up is because I wanted to know more about this guy who seemed to lay down such arbitrary rules on our hero Atreyu. Like, okay, okay, I believe. No, you gotta leave your you can bring your horse, uh no weapons.
SPEAKER_01:But the horse will die.
SPEAKER_02:Yes, you should have told him that.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. Um, okay. So that kind of is our cast of characters and the actors who play them. Um now.
SPEAKER_02:Synopsis time.
SPEAKER_01:Synopsis time. You know it.
SPEAKER_02:You gotta read it in German, though. Uh okay, we'll go to the English version.
SPEAKER_01:All right. A troubled boy dives into a wondrous fantasy world through the pages of a mysterious book.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, he sure does. He's chased by a bunch of street thugs after he escapes the trash can and hides away in the bookstore, owned by probably the worst bookstore owner ever, who immediately tells anyone who enters to leave, then steals the book, and he does dive into that thing. He's like, Oh, math test already started. Fuck it. I'm gonna go up to the attic of my school for the next several hours, maybe rolling into the next day. I don't know, and I'm just gonna read this whole damn book.
SPEAKER_01:That might be actually my call to action because that was one thing that I was like, what school has an attic? Like, I really want to know if anybody out there knows that they went to a school. Like storage rooms, sure.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Like that kind of stuff, of course.
SPEAKER_02:Well, I went to school in Arizona, so for sure, we had no attics or basements, we just had well-air conditioned single-story structures.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, like okay, like I said, like you could have storage areas, you can even have like sheds with extra equipment and all that. Like, I get all that. Yeah. But to have an actual attic in a school, I thought was really interesting. And I was like, is this a German thing? Because like it is based off a German book, and maybe, you know, so I don't know.
SPEAKER_02:Maybe they keep human remains in their attics too, because there were like just multiple skeletons.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. I mean, that's and I was like thinking about that. I was like, is it because maybe, you know, structures in Europe obviously older than the US? And so maybe some of them are converted, converted spaces that they've made into schools, and so it's not unusual to have something like that in that building. I don't know.
SPEAKER_02:In the German version, there is more um, I think more coverage of the attic. There's a few more seconds of him looking around and kind of arranging something, but that's one of the the many small differences.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, and I just I mean, good on Bastion for being so like uh savvy. I mean, he manages throughout his time there, like he finds candles, he finds matches, he like he really makes himself at home there.
SPEAKER_02:He does, but that attic looked like a damn tinder box. It was just ready to go up in flames.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, and there were a couple times where he like throws down the book. I was like, hey, watch it. Like set that thing on fire. But uh, I mean, overall, look, I think that the synopsis, it it is very to the point, and it's not inaccurate, but yeah, it's um I I guess it, you know, does like a pretty good job of the broad strokes of what the story is about.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, I don't know how I would really improve on it much. I mean, it's pretty short and to the point. It would probably get a little bit too detailed and probably really uh give up a lot of spoilers if they said a troubled boy realizes that the story he is reading he is creating out of his own imagination as he saves the the land of fantasia by saying out the name of his mom.
SPEAKER_01:They want to leave a little bit of something for you know people to learn along the way. Um so actually, what this kind of uh sparked for me is the fact that they used the word fantasy, which will move on to Fantasia, the actual world. That now, here's what I thought was again, I know I overuse this word a lot, but what I thought was really interesting is that that is a major switch from the book.
SPEAKER_00:Okay.
SPEAKER_01:I don't know if you We were aware of that.
SPEAKER_02:I was not.
SPEAKER_01:So in the book, that world is called Fantastica.
SPEAKER_02:Fantastica.
SPEAKER_01:Fantastica. And in the film, It's Fantasia, which for a number of reasons, namely Disney, I was like, huh. Really interesting that they were able to get away with it. I don't know what the trademarks are, but I'm kind of working under the assumption that everything under the sun that's ever been used for Disney is trademarked. So I was like, okay, real, real again, interesting to me that they were able to get away with using.
SPEAKER_02:Let's change it to this more problematic term.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. And I was like, like, Fantastica.
SPEAKER_02:Not not my favorite, but like it's a little on the nose. It's is it is it quite as extreme as the land of make-believe for Mr. Rogers? No, but it's close.
SPEAKER_01:It's it's close. So I just, yeah, just a little kind of sidebar little thing. Um, we do talk about this, and I mean I already mentioned it at the top of our segment. That this is a German production, and at the time that it was made, it was the most expensive film produced in Germany.
SPEAKER_02:Wow.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:Out of well, now I'm interested in that list of other films produced in Germany.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, I mean, you know, I think that nowadays, I mean, this is a whole rabbit hole conversation, but a lot of films are now looking towards a global audience.
SPEAKER_02:Oh, a thousand percent. Right.
SPEAKER_01:That wasn't necessarily always the case. And so, you know, I think especially for other nations, like there is a German cinema, there is a Italian cinema that just you know, largely um caters sounds like a negative connotation, I don't mean it that way, but like just caters towards their native citizens or whatever. Um, and I don't know if this was like the first time that they're like, oh no, we could actually, this is a story that is, you know, universal. We can definitely get an audience outside of our own country. And so I don't know if that has anything to do with um the expense of the film. I mean, we talk about it with Mike oh man. I mean, all the practical effects and all these characters that they have to bring to life, obviously that costs money.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah. And the the the effects, I think, you know, we talk about this again with Mike, but I think for the most part they they hold up pretty well. Like the the ancient one, I thought looks really uh great. I mean, the ancient one is a giant tortoise. Yeah. I probably called him turtle, but he's a tortoise, I think.
SPEAKER_01:Oh, do you think that it's a he? I always kind of thought of the ancient one as a she.
SPEAKER_02:Well, I guess if we're in the Marvel universe, definitely.
SPEAKER_01:I'm wondering if I think of the ancient one as a she because for some reason it like reminds me of the Matrix.
SPEAKER_02:So I'll go I'll I'll do this then. I will amend my characterization of the Ancient One and in line with their conversation with the trio, I will call the Ancient One they.
SPEAKER_01:Yes. Good job. Yep, yep, yep.
SPEAKER_02:That is a much more accurate way to Since they consistently talk about we don't know what you should do.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. The I gotta say, the Ancient One, totally useless.
SPEAKER_02:I mean Whoever suggested that, yeah, I blame them.
SPEAKER_01:Talk about a waste of time.
SPEAKER_02:The Ancient One didn't want this visit.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, they're and they were so irritating how incredibly unhelpful they were to a tray you.
SPEAKER_02:They literally couldn't care less.
SPEAKER_01:Could not be bothered. Yeah. I mean, they couldn't even be, they don't w how did they put it? Like, I don't even care if I care. Yeah. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:Exactly. So they don't even care that they don't care.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, exactly. Okay, one thing that I want to bring up before we jump into our conversation with our special guest is the theme song, which I adore.
SPEAKER_02:It's it's great and it um it kind of hits you in the face right at the opening credits.
SPEAKER_01:I mean, they don't waste any time.
SPEAKER_02:No, I didn't remember that. So as soon as the movie started, I'm like, wow, this is great.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, I I adore this song. This is one of I mean, whether it's part of a film or not, this is honestly one of my favorite songs from the 80s.
SPEAKER_02:So here's a big difference. Here's what I think is one of the biggest differences between the German and US versions.
SPEAKER_01:Of the song or the film?
SPEAKER_02:Yes.
SPEAKER_01:Okay.
SPEAKER_02:Because when the movie opens, the German version has the white text for the for the credits on just a black background and then the music that we hear. The original music by Klaus Doldinger. I don't know if that's the I don't think it is the same version. So an even bigger difference. So you get white text on a black background with the original title music by Klaus. Klaus? Klaus. I'm gonna say Klaus.
SPEAKER_01:Okay.
SPEAKER_02:In the US version, we get kind of like all of the the artificial clouds, which I guess is like representative of the nothing.
SPEAKER_01:Oh I kind of thought of it like I the way that I imagined that that is that you are kind of looking from Falkor's POV.
SPEAKER_02:Oh, okay.
SPEAKER_01:And you're like going through the clouds.
SPEAKER_02:I can see that. Yes. That's how I imagine that some of the like the darker clouds, I feel like they use that same imagery when the nothing is approaching. So and then we get the pop song of the never-ending story. So that's that's a huge difference, I think.
SPEAKER_01:Huge difference. I mean, which is making me wonder if perhaps in the German version it's actually the score of the film that is being played over credits instead of the song.
SPEAKER_02:Well they did it. They did it, it's it's too um I mean, it is a gloomy song. It's intended to represent Bastion's dream about his mom that he wakes up from and the movie begins.
SPEAKER_01:Wow, yeah, that is very different.
SPEAKER_02:So a very different opening.
SPEAKER_01:This this must very much go back to uh, you know, I'm gonna guess like German expressionism roots, which it are pretty, pretty dark. And so they're like, the German audience, they can handle the darkness. The American audience, we're gonna give them a pop song.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, let's let's let's bring them up before we tear them down.
SPEAKER_01:Which, okay. Speaking of the theme song, so here's what I didn't realize. Like, I always was familiar with the name of the behind the song, which is I'm gonna butcher this one for sure. But lamal.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, that's that's how I would say that.
SPEAKER_01:Okay. I always assumed, given the name, that that was like a group name. That is not a group name. That is the individual's name who sang this song.
SPEAKER_02:I'm impressed.
SPEAKER_01:And they are the lead singer of a pop band. You want to know what the pop band's name is? I love it so much.
SPEAKER_02:I mean, I might already know what it is, but I want to hear you say it.
SPEAKER_01:Kaja Goo.
SPEAKER_02:Oh, is that it? Okay.
SPEAKER_01:I'm gonna say it again. Kaja Goo.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, I know. I've I'm familiar with the name of that band just because it's just a wacky name.
SPEAKER_01:It is wait, you're familiar with the name of that band?
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, I've heard them before. Really? Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:I have not. And I just was like, everything about this little fun fact is is so fun to me. And I'm I'm just gonna keep saying Kaja Goo. I love it.
SPEAKER_02:The name of that band is the punchline of a joke from something that I can no longer remember. But I remember just hearing it as like a joke, and like I knew that was a band. So yeah.
SPEAKER_01:All right.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Oh, okay. Real quickly, we're gonna do our due diligence before we jump. Yeah, before we jump in with Mike.
SPEAKER_02:All right.
SPEAKER_01:Montage.
SPEAKER_02:Oh.
SPEAKER_01:Montage.
SPEAKER_02:If there is a montage, there is, we're gonna talk about it. If there's not, we're gonna talk about it. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Um, so I mean, it's very straightforward. It's so a tree, he gets his quest, and basically the montage that we see is him going through the various lands of Fantasia. Yeah. Um, at this point with Artax.
SPEAKER_02:He's got a desert level, yeah, kind of like an ice level, all the all the classic uh fantasy levels.
SPEAKER_01:Kind of all the different tropes of like the different lands that you go through and that sort of thing. So that's great. I mean, it it's very effective. It kind of implies um, you know, the the reaches of Fantasia, the amount of land that he's covering. I think at the point where um I'm not sure when he says it is it when he's rusting with our tax or not. In any case, he makes a point of saying, like, we've been going on for a week.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, I think, yeah, I think that is. Um, but I also I can't remember. So if someone has just recently seen it more recently than than us, which was two days ago.
SPEAKER_01:In the last 48 hours, but uh yeah.
SPEAKER_02:I he he does mention something about that. Like we've we've ridden around aimlessly and we've got nothing to show for it.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, exactly. So so it is effective. It's just kind of showing um passage of time, uh passage of actual distance.
SPEAKER_02:I love the the music they use for those montages. I do too. They use it for kind of like any like fantasy adventure scene, like in like uplifting, because it's the same same music at the end when Bastion is flying around on Falcor.
SPEAKER_01:And it's the same music when Falcor picks up a Treyu. And then and that's also kind of a mini montage because they have to go beyond the borders of Fantasia.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:And so really exact same thing. So instead of a Treyu being on R-Tax, he's on Falcor and they're kind of continuing um the journey. So so there's actually a couple of montages in there. Um, like you said, with the same music each time, it's really effective. And yeah, for the purposes of this is this like fantasy land and it's vast and they need to cover long distances, it works.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, I agree. I like it.
SPEAKER_01:I like it.
SPEAKER_02:I'm just gonna watch the montages over again. Okay. I mean, I might I might watch the movie again, too.
unknown:Okay.
SPEAKER_01:All right. Well, should we jump in with Mike?
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, let's uh I don't know.
SPEAKER_01:Is it have we have we been talking for three hours yet?
SPEAKER_02:Have we covered everything? All right, we have, let's do it.
SPEAKER_01:Let's do it. And we are here with our great friend and filmmaker Mike Anderson. Mike, welcome.
SPEAKER_04:Thank you. Thank you for having me.
SPEAKER_01:Absolutely. No, we're so excited. This is definitely, I think, a very different film than we have covered so far. Um, yeah, it really is.
SPEAKER_02:It's just like pure fantasy. Like the Goonies grounded quite a bit in reality, had like a little fantasy kind of side to it with the pirates and everything. But this is full-on Luck Dragon uh stories coming to real life fantasy.
SPEAKER_04:Yep. And and I and I'd say if you're starting with the fact that Goonies is grounded in reality, then I think this is gonna go really well because that is grounded in absolute reality.
SPEAKER_01:I mean I mean that could totally happen.
SPEAKER_04:I stand by that.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. So, okay, so we're gonna dive right in. And as I do, I wanted to ask first what your first memories were of this film about maybe how old you were. I'm assuming this was something you saw in childhood, but don't know that for sure yet. And just wanted to know what you what you thought of it the first time you experienced this movie.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, no, I uh, you know, as a fan of your podcast, I I know that that's that's an Anna first question that's typically asked. So I was I was percolating yeah, I was percolating the thought, and I was trying to think what what are my memories of the never ending story? A it was uh such a great assignment to to to get this this movie because it has been a while, but then it started uh I started thinking about the like the times that I've that I remember watching it, and then three times like reminded me the most. And I I remember the first time, or I think, because it came out in like 84, I was definitely too young uh for that, but I was around, um, but uh I was too young for that. And then I remember watching it on the TV with my brother, and I still remember with my feet. We used to put our feet against the the old archaic thing that held holds the TV. What is that? Yeah, like that.
SPEAKER_00:I I know exactly what you're talking about.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, it like weighs 70 million pounds, and like and and the TV itself weighed 70 million pounds, and we'd put our feet against it, my brother and I, and we'd watch movies with a pillow behind us, inevitably waiting for mom and dad to come by and say we were gonna go blind if we were within six feet of the television. So, so I I still remember doing that. My brother was like, you have to, he's six years older than me. He's like, you have to watch this movie. And and I just remember watching it with my brother, uh you know, less than six feet away from the TV, because I wasn't six feet when I was like seven years old. Um never got there. Uh and uh and that's probably why I was too close to the TV. It stunted my growth. Um and I and I remember just being there, blanket, pillow, watching it with my brother, and it was awesome. It was it blew my mind. So that was the that was the first time. Um then I was thinking back about like the other times I watched it, and and one other time like reminded me in like high school, uh, we were like sophomores, and my best friend and I, we we I was always a big fan of it, and and I'd watched it a million times, and uh we were like, let's rent all of the never-ending stories and stay up all night.
SPEAKER_02:How many are there? Because look, I love the original. I have no memory of the second, and the fact that you said all of them suggest there are more than two.
SPEAKER_04:Oh there's at least three that we went to the that are local Mr. Movies uh for anybody who had a Mr. Movies. Like we went we went to the local Mr. Movies, got the stack, paid a whopping like$2 for the whole stack, got some stale gummy worms, and went back to his house. And I still remember this because it had one of the legendary stories of my best friend. He uh it was exactly the moment when Reese's came out with its own peanut butter. I don't know if you guys remember that. Oh yeah. Yeah. And he was like, Reese's makes peanut butter? That's awesome! And he got it from the Mr. Movies, which you should never buy a jar of peanut butter from your movie store. But just because it had the word Reese's on it, that makes no sense. But he got it and we put on the first movie, and by the end of it, he goes, uh oh. And I remember like we were just like laughing and crying because the movie's so awesome, and this is being sophomore. And I looked over and he finished the entire true story, hand of God, finished the entire jar of peanut butter by himself with his finger.
SPEAKER_02:Okay, so okay, that was my question was what was the the eating mechanism? Was it just it pure spoon, pure peanut butter?
SPEAKER_04:Was it it was spoon, but by the end, he was doing the finger ring around.
SPEAKER_02:Oh Jesus gets caught on the bottom of that top ring.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, yeah. A man knows his peanut butter, Derek. I respect that. Like, like, but I we were like, uh oh, and and but he didn't even have a bellyache. I mean he he's one of those kids who are.
SPEAKER_01:My question is did he make it through the other films?
SPEAKER_04:Well, okay, so here's a good point. We didn't make it through the other films. If any of your listeners have have watched number two or number three, they are the worst pieces of garbage you've ever seen in your entire life. But number one is is a delight, and and why we're here. And for our sponsorship, Reese's peanut butter.
SPEAKER_01:Uh give us a call.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah. Maybe he would have like taken a chocolate bar and broken it up and then mixed that in with the peanut butter and then had kind of like a quasi-reese.
SPEAKER_01:There's the there's a movie on the TV show that does that. Oh man.
SPEAKER_04:Now that's he was the kid who always had a nutty bar like in his backpack, but you never knew how old the nutty bar was, but he was a big thing.
SPEAKER_02:I never knew that I didn't know that kid existed.
SPEAKER_04:Oh man.
SPEAKER_01:Are you still friends?
SPEAKER_04:Oh, we're yeah, still best friends. Still best friends.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah.
SPEAKER_04:He still eats, he still eats nutty bars, and he still looks like a rail. We're 40 years old, both of us, and he came on the six-pack, and I'm like, what the hell? You eat peanut butter all day.
SPEAKER_01:So so okay, so let me make sure that I I heard you earlier correctly because you said you had three distinct. Okay, so that was number two.
SPEAKER_04:Yep. And then and then the other one was a a throwback to one time like with a with a fresh girlfriend in college, uh watching it and realizing that she didn't like it, so I didn't like her. So it ended pretty quickly. Uh that one's not a pick-me-up story, but it's a it's a good, it's a good test. It's a good, it's a good test to see. She didn't she didn't understand uh why the monsters and and why the nothingness mattered. And I was like, if you don't know why nothingness doesn't matter, well, why why imagination being ripped from from existence doesn't matter, uh, then then this isn't gonna work.
SPEAKER_02:I bet she would have liked the sequels.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, I think her favorite movie was uh Never Ending Story 2.
SPEAKER_01:Well, I mean that brings up a really great question. I doubt you can like verify this, but I'm guessing that maybe this was a movie she did not see in childhood because that's typically how it goes. We've had this conversation before where people have an attachment.
SPEAKER_04:I've heard you, Anna, on this podcast diss some of the greatest cinematic masterpieces. And I was questioning if I should even come on this thing after your after your you know your comments about blood sport, which is masterly made.
SPEAKER_02:It features one of the greatest dick punches in all of cinematic history.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, well, I mean, that that is one one of them from it. In fact, actually, we were just talking about uh I was just working with my editor literally yesterday, true story, and uh and and a gentleman who Anna knows, uh Tyrone, uh, was was on the the co-director was on the thing, and Tyrone was laughing, and he's like, we were arguing if we could replay a shot in our movie. And I have this comment that most people who watch movies are watching it for the story. So oftentimes all you gotta do is punch in or pull out or whatever you want to do, and you can replicate the same shot multiple times, and Tyrone out of the blue goes, or you could just be Van Dam and have the kick in like nine different montages, the same kick over and over and over and over, and all that's how blood sport was made. And I was like, and that's why I work with Tyrone because he's a blood kick.
SPEAKER_02:You've got to be talking about the spin kick. That spin kick spin kick to splits. Yeah.
SPEAKER_04:Thank you. You now know exactly Derek. This is this this is why I came on the show.
SPEAKER_02:I can't honestly think of a better segue to Van Dam's spin kick to the splits to my first time of seeing the never ending story.
SPEAKER_01:Real quick, real quick. I just want to say for the record that Mike, I do remember you taking issue with me over the blood sword episode.
SPEAKER_02:And this reckoning has been coming for a while.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, this is this is not a podcast about never ending story. Anyone who's here for never ending story, you can turn it off right now because this is blood sport, take two.
SPEAKER_01:And I I stand behind my feelings of the film. I I I have said this before throughout several of these episodes that you know, film is open to interpretation. Not everybody has to love the same thing. However, when you reached out to me to say, hey, not cool your thoughts on Bloodsport. I did bring it up, I believe, in the Karate Kid episode, and like made it known that you know, we have some listeners out there who don't necessarily agree. And I'm fine with that.
SPEAKER_02:So here's how I'm gonna tie these two things together. Okay. Nothing that I saw in all of Blood Sport, and I've seen it many times, and there are some horrific injuries. There's a compound fracture, nothing that I saw in that movie was as psychologically damaging to me, damaging to me as watching RTAX dying in that goddamn swamp of sadness. Yeah. That and watching it again last night reminded me of the first time that I saw it. I think I did, I don't know if I saw it in a theater. I feel like I saw it in a theater when it first came out, even though I only would have been like nine years old. Um, but that kind of like gutted me. Like that was one of the saddest things, like one of my saddest memories of being a kid watching any movie was watching that that horse just lose all hope.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Well, and it felt kind of quick. I don't know.
SPEAKER_04:Well, that was what I was gonna say. That's exactly what I was exactly gonna say. Uh, and I don't know how many times you've watched the movie, but like I uh hearing Derek say that, I completely agree. So when I watched it again two nights ago, I uh I you know I was like, okay, let's let's I poured myself a whiskey and I was like, let's make sure that this isn't gonna be horrible and uh and like shatter all my childhood dreams. Um and and and I put it on and I was so wonderfully surprised that it like held up to a to a to a fairly decent standard. Um, however, that horse dies so damn quickly. But because when I was a kid, I watched the movie like every third Saturday, it it it it carries such a punch. But when you haven't seen it for a little while, it didn't carry as much punch because you know he he's like, Okay, let's go, RTX, we're on our jerk. Oh, you dead? Oh, oh yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_02:It takes one look and suddenly I'll walk it. That horse is like ass deep like that.
SPEAKER_01:Well, okay, but here's here's what I'm trying to say though, is that like in literally the previous scene, our texts is like nuzzling him, and they're he's like laughing, he's like, Oh, you want to eat, and like everything seems really great.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, he got like three sugar cubes, by the way. Yeah, yeah, he he did, he did.
SPEAKER_01:But I mean, you don't want to anyway. Um, but then so in this scene, I'm like, why is he so sad so fast? Like, I feel like he had a lot to be happy for.
SPEAKER_04:Well, it the Sea of Sorrow points out your greatest flaws and slams them in your face. I guarantee if I was in Thanksgiving, fat belly, super happy, and then someone came and whispered my deepest secret into my ear, I'd probably start crying right then, too. So, you know, like the sea of sorrow can do that. Like it's very powerful. Now, because we learned that Fantasia is all created by Bastion's mind, Bastion's an asshole for killing Artex.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, it's really just on him.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, that's just transit.
SPEAKER_02:Bastion's sadness killed that damn horse.
SPEAKER_04:I'm telling you, Fantasia, we learn it was somebody's fault. So that's awesome.
SPEAKER_02:I think that's the lesson that I took out from it is it it's the never-ending story, colon. It's somebody's fault.
SPEAKER_04:And and colon, it's Bastion. They we don't need a name because we've already decided it. It's Bastion.
SPEAKER_02:Parenthetical, don't watch the sequels. Exactly.
SPEAKER_04:I'd be curious if anybody does chime in and gets angry that number two is like incredible. Because like I'll I'll argue like there's definitely sequels that are better than the prequels, uh, or whatever the firsts. Yeah. Um, but this this was this was not one of them.
SPEAKER_01:Well, I mean, it's an interesting point because you know, I don't know if either of you know that the first film only covers the first half of the book that it's based on.
SPEAKER_04:Well, again, only only because uh I'm a fan of your thing. I was like, I better stack up on my knowledge. So I I Wikipedia, Wikipedia the shit out of this, but uh, but yeah, no, I I I figured and and and but did you did you Anna, did you know what happens in the second one? I had to be reminded based on the articles of of what it is. And Bastion goes in and tries to become the the emperor and like is a bad emperor and stuff. So like I think they did a good job of stopping the book when we still like Bastion.
SPEAKER_01:No, I I completely agree with you, and that's what I find so interesting is that uh I know that there's okay, well, full disclosure, I've never seen the second film.
SPEAKER_02:I'm I'm kind of Derek and I I might have seen it, but I've I I don't remember any of it, and I didn't even know there was a third one.
SPEAKER_01:I know for sure I never saw it. Um but it I you know am aware of what takes place in the film. There, to your point, Mike, like there is a lot of overlap. I think they pretty much cover the broad strokes of what happens in the second half of the book, and you're totally right. Bastion is kind of a bastard.
SPEAKER_02:He becomes the little shit we always suspected he was. Yeah, and so he's Bastion.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, some of Bastion. And so I totally agreed that as far as like the filmmakers are concerned, they knew, okay, that well, also, I mean, so many things are interesting about this film because it's technically a German production and it was like the most expensive German production at the time.
SPEAKER_04:I can see why, because of all the facts and everything that they're oh, those sets, those sets were just I when when the ground cracked and moved, and by the way, he was like one inch from falling in there, and and I'm sure we're gonna get into it later, but all the all the horrendous stuff that uh that that poor actor went through is is is insane. But when I saw that set crack open in three different parts, um and and he was like one inch from it, I was like, oh, that was another close one. And I wonder if they even told him like where the crack lines were. The moral of the story is the moral of the story is as the watcher, I was blown away by the sets. And some of the sets, they literally just walked through like it was probably a$300,000 set that he just went trot, trot, trot, trot, trot.
SPEAKER_02:And then uh Falkor, the Falcor rig was where they just had someone sit on the Falkor and then they just had like a flight simulator screen in front of them. For I it it that's one of the parts, like I think a lot of it does hold up, but the moments when anyone is flying on that luck dragon just crack me up. It's so bad.
SPEAKER_01:But it's endearing though.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, well, I was just I was gonna totally share the same sentiment as Anna.
SPEAKER_02:And at the time it was amazing.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, well, and and what still holds up is the acting upon that. So, so when he turns left and when he turns right, it really does feel like you're leaning right and you're leaning left. So that still holds up perfectly.
SPEAKER_02:Like and the realism of like if I was flying on a luck dragon, I would probably also just repeatedly pump up one of my arms and go, yeah!
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. It's not grounded, it's not grounded in reality like Goonies, like falling down bikes and finding pianos underground that are made of bones, but it's it's grounded in it's grounded in German reality, like Fritz Lang shit, you know?
SPEAKER_02:Exactly.
SPEAKER_01:German expressionism.
SPEAKER_02:We're on the same, we're on the same page.
SPEAKER_01:Um, well, okay, so just really quickly though, what also is interesting about where the first film ends, so apparently the the author of the book was not cool with the fact that they ended it there and really took issue with the fact that they didn't show the complete story. But I think that honestly, it would have been from a financial standpoint.
SPEAKER_04:It would have been a never-ending story.
SPEAKER_01:Exactly. Yeah, exactly. There was like no way that they could do that in one film. And from what I read, he even was like asking them at one point, like, can you change the name of the movie? And they're like, No. And I think he took them to court, he lost. Um, so he was very upset with it.
SPEAKER_04:It's we we've heard this story a thousand times where where the writer of the book is like, they didn't get my or or uh I I you know, you can get into a debate with anybody and quickly lose when someone's like, the book was actually better than the movie. It's like, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. We know. We know the books are typically better. I'm definitely that guy. Yeah. Yeah. It's like, except for like under the Tuscan Sun, that movie's way better than the book.
SPEAKER_01:Um but like that's an interesting callback.
SPEAKER_02:I mean, it's weird because on one hand, I'm guilty of doing that all the time. But on the other hand, they're they're different experiences. That's what I'm trying to say. Game of Thrones is a good example of that because once you get past like the third or fourth season, you realize that these these are just intended to be very different experiences. And that's also going to be the case with something like Never Ending Story, where they probably invested quite a bit just to get that first movie out. And like, even if that is only half the story, it's a great half of a story.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah. Or famously, famously the shining. Like, like uh it's a different type of movie experience. And so, anyway, as a filmmaker and not as a novelist, like we get it, you know, we get it. Like, we have to bastardize your your your creative vision because something happened differently or whatever. Like, why can't you just make it the same? Yeah, why can't you like make the four winds attack it? It's like, oh, come on. Like it's just, it's just, but like, like I'm saying, like you you have to you have to view it in a in a in a different way. But no, I I read that too, and I was like, oh, okay, we we get it. You're right, you're stomping your feet, and then and it became the most successful German movie ever. Like exactly.
SPEAKER_02:Like, it's fine.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:Here's my question for you though, Mike. When you recently rewatched it, were you paying attention at the beginning of the movie, the interaction with Bastion and his dad and his dad's breakfast?
SPEAKER_04:Oh, oh, oh. Let me go, let me go even earlier. Let me go even earlier. First credits. Did you see the names like, like, like did Like I going to what you're saying, Derek, is like watching the whole thing. I was looking at all the details, and I'll I'll I'll go to the breakfast so I don't feel like I'm totally derailing you. But like, yes, I saw that. Orange juice and and and eggs? Raw eggs? What?
SPEAKER_00:Is that owl?
SPEAKER_02:Is that like an orange whip or something? Like I I what is that?
SPEAKER_04:The the the the the Rocky experience somehow permeated into it. And and Wolfgang was like, Wolfgang was like, oh my god, Americans love raw eggs. We gotta do this. But we also love orange juice. We can eat a little acid.
SPEAKER_01:Why was that such a thing in like 80s movies, eating raw eggs?
SPEAKER_04:I'm telling you, I think it was because of Rocky. And Rocky really set the standard. Oh, speaking of my friend Brett, uh the these these the peanut butter eater. Yeah, he tried to legally he tried to legally change his name to Rocky because he loved the Rocky movies so much. And his dad gave him one of those ultimatums. If you can keep your name Rocky for six months, we'll change your name to Rocky, and he couldn't do it. So came close, though. He came like three weeks.
SPEAKER_01:He's a real interesting dude. Maybe we need to have him on the show. Yeah, seriously.
SPEAKER_04:Maybe I gotta exit right now and just uh all I do is promote other things.
SPEAKER_02:So um but yeah, so I love that that dad, the the weird orange juice egg drinker, was also major dad and from Simon and Simon, which I'm sure we'll talk about.
SPEAKER_01:Simon Simon, yeah. And cloak and cloak and dagger.
SPEAKER_04:And cloak and dagger, which was he was he or was he not? Or did it okay? An older looking guy of that.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, they look like there's a lot of similarity. I can see why you would think that. Basically mustache.
SPEAKER_04:I wouldn't mind rewatching Cloak and Dagger, which I believe is 80s, because this scared the shit out of me for some reason. I watched him way too young. Yeah, way too young.
SPEAKER_01:Well, that's just it. That I mean, that is kind of part of this like bigger conversation that has come up quite a bit in a lot of our conversations with our guests, are these films that were geared towards children in the 80s that have a lot of like really uh adult isn't it? I know that has like a certain connotation, but it has like a lot of adult content. Like with it's intense.
SPEAKER_02:It's intense for kids.
SPEAKER_04:No, you you were trying to you were trying to tiptoe around the the the word pornography with the word adult.
SPEAKER_02:But I will go for the fact talking about never ending story?
SPEAKER_04:Well, we are we are still talking about it because as I'm sure Anna picked up, one of the things that the writer of this book was so mad about was the exposed voluptuous bosoms of the oracles.
SPEAKER_02:And and and so I Yeah, that I vague, I vividly remember seeing that for the first time as a kid going like, Whoa, am I nipples brilly?
SPEAKER_01:We gotta have nipples.
SPEAKER_04:Well, you should have. I mean, look, why not have nipples? Like that's humanity.
SPEAKER_01:I guess that you're gonna go for it.
SPEAKER_04:You're Europeans are so much more about that. But I what I was gonna say is when I was thinking as a kid, no, when I was thinking as like back as a kid of like when I watched it, did I have like like like sexual feelings for for this, or was the movie powerful enough that I didn't even notice? And for sure, for certainty, I and I'm speaking as a kid, not as a 40-year-old man right now. Um I I did not have, I I I was totally unaware, and it could have been how shitty our TVs were back then, but I I was a pistol or anywhere. Yeah, you didn't see the detail on there. I was totally unaware of like the voluptuous bosoms or whatever. I was more worried about the laser eyes. Now, who I did fall in love with and I was in love with for a long time was the princess. She, I mean, we were basically when I saw that I was eight, nine, ten, whatever, and she was eight, nine, ten. And so again, I'm only speaking as an eight, nine, ten-year-old. But the princess is who I remember totally for the first time ever being like, oh, uh, you know, I would love to be king and queen with her, you know, type thing.
SPEAKER_01:Oh. No, but you that's another really great point, is that's something that I was thinking about with our most recent viewing, is like really the caliber of the acting, to be quite honest, of all the kid actors in this. And for having a very small role she comes in at the very tail end of the film, she does great.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, she's exceptional.
SPEAKER_04:Oh, she does a great beyond, beyond exceptional. When I I kept saying, I kept saying, when's the emperor gonna come? When is the emperor gonna come? When is the empress? Because I remember her making such a mark on me. And then she's only in the movie. She's like Beetlejuice, by the way. Beetlejuice is only in the movie. You you want to guess how long Beetlejuice? I've kind of already spoiled it, but when I say the word, how long is Betelgeuse in the movie? You'd say like half the movie, right? I'm gonna say five minutes. Well, don't be a jerk, Derek. I was setting you up real well.
SPEAKER_01:Hannibal Lecter. I mean, I think that I don't know if he's been beat at this point, but like uh he only was in the film for 16 minutes, yeah, I believe, and he won best actor for it. So Anthony Hopkins, for anybody who didn't know who I was talking about there. Um, but yeah, please go, please go. Yeah, he she's not in it for for the vast majority, nine tenths of the film.
SPEAKER_02:When she does show up, kind of the entire weight of everything that's happened up to that point and everything that's about to happen is all on her.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:It's not on who's it gonna be on Bash and the gravity of the situation.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_05:It's just literally the lack of gravity.
SPEAKER_01:Yep. And I I was really blown away by her performance in that, and I think that was one of the very first things that she ever did. I think.
SPEAKER_04:Well, so so remember when Derek and I rudely said uh, you know, right from the start of this movie, one of the things that cracked me up is there are two names that show up, and then it says introducing, and then just goes through a boatload of names. Like usually it's introducing Christian Bale. That's it, you know, in Emperor of the Sun. That's it, you know? And uh, but in this one, it was like two names, and then it was like and introducing. And I was just like, oh, that's brilliant. That's how that's how novice everybody was. It was crazy.
SPEAKER_01:And yeah, I just confirmed that was her first her first credited acting role, which is pretty amazing. And I mean, she really hasn't done I it looks like the last couple years she's kind of put herself in a couple things, but really that was that was her big introduction to entertainment. Like she didn't do anything again until 2008 for one. Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_04:You you you you bring up another point of like I know because I'm a fan of your podcast, um that usually usually you guys go down total rabbit holes um of like of like it takes it takes a while for the guests to get there, and I'm sure I'll be speaking to the fans, hello fans, within 10 minutes because everybody stops their acting career like three or four years after this. Yeah. I googled I Googled Bastion. You called him Sebastian, didn't you? Yeah, I almost called him Sebastian because I was like under the sea right then.
SPEAKER_01:He's like a photography guy now.
SPEAKER_04:Well yeah, well, yeah, he and but like old timey or whatever, like like he he uh uh like he is so so good. He was so good the way he like held his stares and his looks and his potency. And mind you, he acts alone most of the movie. And that is, and I was like, who is this kid? And and and what and like and Daryl, I mean, I don't need to keep talking about other movies, but that's what a movie podcast does. Um Daryl is one of the best movies. I don't know if you've ever watched it, seems like a Derek movie for sure.
SPEAKER_02:Oh, with a little robot kid.
SPEAKER_04:I'm a whole yes, yes, so good. It is good, yeah. But then he stops acting after that. Yeah, it's crazy.
SPEAKER_01:It's it's really nuts. Um, and I mean, honestly, like this whole trio of child actors that are in the film, I would also say that they they all have their strengths. The one thing that I really love about the actor who plays a Treyu is he I mean, he's called out for it at the very beginning, like, you're just a kid. And he's like, Well, I'm no, I'm this warrior. And he does a really great job of balancing those two sides of who he looks and is supposed to be because he definitely has kind of child moments. I mean, I think it comes up most of the time where he has a tendency to kind of like whine a little bit.
SPEAKER_04:Oh, totally whines, totally whines. And I loved it though, how endearing.
SPEAKER_01:Right, right. And and so, like, I totally I'm I that's not like a critique as far as I'm concerned. It's part of the fact that yes, he is still a child.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, he was a great warrior, but he was also still a kid.
SPEAKER_01:And he and he has this like though, um, very uh this other half of him is this like very mature part, like he understands like the weight of what he's been tasked to do, and he feels such uh guilt over the fact that he thinks he failed. Yeah. And it's it it is a really interesting performance to me that that that he pulled off really well, I think.
SPEAKER_04:Really, really well. Like when he's standing in front of the wolf or the whatever his name is, Nog.
SPEAKER_05:Yarn Guard, yeah.
SPEAKER_04:Um, but when he's standing in front of the wolf and he's like, But I am a tree you and I am a warrior, but then the next line is like, but I couldn't do it.
SPEAKER_03:Right the world is ending, I couldn't do it. It was like so good, so riveting.
SPEAKER_04:I was just like, this kid is nailing it. He is he's that cool kid when you're in fourth or fifth grade who you're like, that kid is a total stud, and then like gets hurt in the pool and is like you know, like I mean, look, he took on he took on that giant, if not slightly chubby, green-eyed, massive werewolf thing in like literally one strike.
SPEAKER_01:So if he needs to, you know, if he gets a little weepy afterwards. And speaking of crushes, not gonna lie, like I was like, he's kind of he's kind of cute. This is speaking of childhood Anna.
SPEAKER_04:Okay, the werewolf. The werewolf was cute. We can all agree, right? He's just a big fluffy bunny.
SPEAKER_01:Obviously, I'm speaking of a trio. Um, so yeah, I think that there was uh Okay, so we all had crushes on all of these bears.
SPEAKER_02:And who did you who were you crushing on?
SPEAKER_01:Minus Bastion, that poor kid in the bowl cut. I mean, like, I'm sure you didn't do him any favors.
SPEAKER_02:I'm sure nine-year-old me had a crush on the Trial Like Empress. Yeah, it sounds weirder. I just was gonna say the Empress, but yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Well, that's her name. It's an interesting, like Yeah, the author picks some interesting names for these characters, but I was aware, I was aware of the uh boobs on the the the Oracle gate thing.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, yeah. I mean, I know I was aware of them, but I was also aware that they were attached to these like monster, you know, they weren't sphinxes, were they? Well, that's how I interpreted that.
SPEAKER_04:I didn't say sphinx.
SPEAKER_02:So like it definitely wasn't uh a sexualized thing. It was just like, you know, those are boobs.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. It was to to me the most boob thing that I remember from your guys' podcast in the 80s is it's a it's a oh, what's the line? It there's there's uh not enough perfect breasts in the world. It'd be a oh it would be a pity to damage those, or whatever the line was. And I was like, what did he say? What I like totally had to snap out of it and be like, I wasn't even paying attention to that. Oh, Wesley, you just changed every direction I went in this movie. So so if I guarantee if a tree looked up and was mentioned them as a kid, I would have noticed. But like under under 14, I really wasn't noticing.
SPEAKER_02:If a tree had looked up and mentioned them, that would have been monkey.
SPEAKER_04:It would have been that adult, it would have been that adult movie Anna was talking about.
SPEAKER_01:Well, that was something, again, uh, you know, you notice things for the first time uh every with every screening. And then again, was something that I picked up on last night when we were watching it. I was like, wow. These statues are stunning. Yeah, the detail on these sphinxes. But then, and I never went ahead and did it, but I was like, how accurate is this in comparison to like, you know, Egyptian sphinxes that have been. Oh, did you do it? No, I should have. I mean, do it right now.
SPEAKER_03:We have computer technology in front of us.
SPEAKER_02:We'll just uh we'll continue to talk while Anna does research and type, type, type, type, type, type, type.
SPEAKER_01:I'm like literally trying to type around my microphone.
SPEAKER_02:Um and your security measures.
SPEAKER_01:And yeah, exactly. Um let's see here.
SPEAKER_02:I mean use an incognito window for this.
SPEAKER_01:They they definitely went on their own. Um they they did their own kind of like spin on it because who knows what it what it would have been back in the day when it was like what an interesting choice though for a kid's movie to say, like, no, they gotta be huge.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah.
SPEAKER_04:What I like what I like is is was it an interesting choice? Or is it just Americans being like aghast? Like, what do the German kids think? What did the British kids think? Like, I okay, so here's a here's a fun story. Um, who of us I don't want to brag. Who of us have who who of us in this podcast have actually ridden Falkor before? Oh, I have. Um in Germany on the right? I studied, yeah, I studied in Germany. Um I studied a term. I studied a term in Germany. And when we went to Munich, um, by the way, I study, I lived in Germany, and I spoke German in college and everything like that. I'm 40 right now and know about three words. That's how useful German is in your everyday-to-day.
SPEAKER_02:All right, so I have a quick update on Sphinxes.
SPEAKER_04:Okay, okay. Well, I was just gonna say nothing.
SPEAKER_01:There's I was just gonna say when I was a great Sphinx.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, oh, really? There's nothing.
SPEAKER_01:There's no, there's nothing chest area.
SPEAKER_02:There are there are plenty of Sphinx statues in the real world with breasts. And if you Google Sphinx breasts, the fourth Google image is the image of one of them from Never Ending Story.
SPEAKER_04:That's well, now it's historical accuracy. Exactly. The 80s are his history.
SPEAKER_02:Exactly. So uh they they were just doing what they thought was historically accurate.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, yeah. But again, again, I I think it's I personally, again, I was really, really trying to think back of like, you know, little sexual awakenings. And because I was so intrigued by the journey, and I think this is this is, you know, as a filmmaker, we're always trying to wrestle with sexuality and exploitation and and the fine lines and everything like that. Um, or at least good filmmakers are trying to do that. And and in doing this, I mean, in a kid's movie, if if they were like, hey, we need sphinxes, and they were like, okay, here you go, you know, like, like, and thought nothing of it, I think that's more powerful than being like, well, a child who was nursing, and then quickly all the boobs get covered up in their existence and you know, are sacred, like, like, like we we contort it. Anyway, I'm going down a morality lesson. But I'm just saying, I think you're right.
SPEAKER_01:I I mean, I wish we could, you know, get in touch with the you know, production design team to to know what their thoughts were. But I feel I feel pretty good about making the assumption that there wasn't any kind of like sexual motivation behind what they did. They just thought that they were adhering to probably what looked realistic to them. And and the reason why I feel pretty good about saying that is because I really don't if I saw something that was being repeated over and over again in the film, I'd be like, the fuck is going on? But like that's really the only instance I see. And they even, you know, when you finally do come to um the childlike empress, you know, she's she's a child, she has some heavy makeup on. And I know that for some people that crosses a line when you put makeup on a child, but I do not think that it was meant to sexualize her in any way. I didn't think up on anything like that.
SPEAKER_02:I mean, I thought that she played like a very mature kind of like she was a leader. Right. Oh, she was a boss.
SPEAKER_04:She was a boss.
SPEAKER_02:So I just looked at that as like contributing to creating this like perception of her as like more mature. Exactly. Uh, and also as far as like any like sexualized aspects of of like that oracle gateway and the sphinxes, I think we're we're not really putting the blame where it belongs, which is Bastion's imagination.
SPEAKER_04:Again, you're absolutely right. You're absolutely right. It was Bastion who did it, and he was like, you know what? We need at least eight boobs on this screen. Yeah. One, two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight. Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_02:He's reading it going, like, this story has everything that I, yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Well, but go. Oh, no, no, go ahead.
SPEAKER_04:I was just gonna say the princess, going back to the princess. Yeah, like such a boss. When she said that line, when she said that line, there's always darkness in the beginning. I was just like, oh shit, she's all like, she's the only thing that survives through this thing when she had the when she had the grain of sand in her hand. And and it was just so boss-like and so confident and so powerful. Like, yes, you could, I'm sure anybody could go with a spin of like they shouldn't have made her look so frail and so angelic and whatever. But like, I would only counter that with she was a damn boss. Like coming off eight years old and saying there's always darkness in the beginning, and like the confidence and this, and just getting kind of firm with him, like just say my, you know, just name me. You have one simple task, you know, you you little boy.
SPEAKER_02:Like, just the look of disappointment on her face when she says, So what will you wish for? And he's just like, I don't know.
SPEAKER_01:I don't know.
SPEAKER_02:I don't know. She's like, Well, we're fucked. Right?
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, like you're just a child, you're a child, and I'm an emperor.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Again, which goes back to just really an incredible performance by that actress, Teddy Stranoch. I always feel like I'm not saying names right, but yeah.
SPEAKER_04:Um mostly because you probably aren't saying names right.
SPEAKER_01:With my apology. I mean, like, I you know, I do my best. That's all you can ask for. Um, actually, really quickly, because you mentioned this and I did want to talk about this. The name.
SPEAKER_04:Not oh, oh, oh. So, so, so I actually I actually when I said I had remembered the three times I had watched this mostly, I kind of had spun out of control and forgot my third one because I do remember doing that once, but it wasn't actually the powerful one. The other kind that actually, actually mattered to me, actually mattered to me. I was about 12 years old, my 13 years old, and I don't know what child labor laws in that would that would be exactly 1993. And my friend Luke Cheetah, Luke Cheetah, spelled with a T before the Cheetah. I don't know how that worked either. Um uh Luke Cheetah worked at Mr. Movies, and and this was just like the kind of the dawn of like DVDs starting to come out, right? I believe so or so, like '94 maybe. And and he worked there, and and he and I was like, you know what we need to solve? We need and this is way before the internet, or at least our internet, um, we need to solve what the hell Bastion says when he screams out the window.
SPEAKER_05:It was a good thing.
SPEAKER_04:And this is before yeah, this is before the internet was talking about this. This was my own little Reddit on my own school bus, you know? And and so we got the DVD because we had just learned that subtitles would happen. We put it in, Luke Cheetah and I in his basement. I still remember it. He was the only kid with pool, and we we we turned it on, we watched the movie, and we had the subtitles on, and I'm sure Anna looked at the internet and saw this, it doesn't even have it on the on the subtitles.
SPEAKER_00:Oh, I didn't know. I actually did not know that.
SPEAKER_04:True, true story, right then. I was like, well shit, how are we supposed to figure this out? You know, and then a couple years later, the internet finally came out. But or I could have read the book, but like we already discussed, the movies are better than most.
SPEAKER_02:Well, now when I watch it, I can actually like I can see that he's saying Moonchild. Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Which so the re what blows my mind about this is that the way that I uh please tell me if I interpreted this incorrectly, but that was his mother's name.
SPEAKER_04:Yes. Well, because she loves. I don't know if you're familiar with people who are named Moonchild, but they know I am they love men who drink orange juice and eggs. They love Moon.
SPEAKER_01:Well, that what that is what is so interesting because when you yeah, kind of like infer, well, what does that mean? That this this child had a mother whose name was Moonchild, and she marries this guy who is about as straight-laced as they come. Yeah, like what it looks like a Dharma and Greg situation.
SPEAKER_02:Dharma and Greg is the prequel to the never ending story.
SPEAKER_04:That is incredibly true. And and now that I think about it, I guarantee Moonchild was a little looser, probably with her with her, with her views of the world. She's Moonchild. Totally. She's a she's a flower child, which brings back the Sphinxes and why the Sphinxes didn't need coverings, because Moonchild doesn't give a fuck.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, it it is so so interesting to me when you think about then what his upbringing was like. Like just by saying that one name, all of a sudden it informs so much about who he was as a character, what his upbringing was. It, like I said, raises all these questions about how his parents got together.
SPEAKER_02:I mean, it kind of like tells you just what he lost.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, exactly.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, the free the free spirit side of him, the one who said read, the one who said have an imagination, the one who could build Fantasia, and and if and and to get the name Moonchild. I wonder if the Empress is now gonna be even more powerful because she got uh such a free spirit, you know? Was she in part two? I don't know. I I I I tried to wash it out of my memory.
SPEAKER_01:Well but yeah, go ahead.
SPEAKER_04:No, no, I was just gonna say, I think your Darman and Greg uh thing is is is funny there.
SPEAKER_01:So so interesting to me. Well, okay, kind of going along this path of talking about all the actors who are in it and their different strengths. What I find really interesting about the film is like, because I was trying to think of a comparison, and I couldn't off the top of my head think of one where you have what you would maybe call the main character. I mean, he's the first person introduced to us, so you immediately assume okay, this is Bastion's story, and it is Bastion's story. However, I mean far and away, the character who has the most screen time is a Treyu.
SPEAKER_02:I mean, is it a story about Bastion, or is it just Bastion's literally Bastion's story?
SPEAKER_04:Because I think I think it's a dual protagonist, no, no questions asked. You know what I mean? Like it is absolutely because in in essence, when they're looking in the mirror and they they touch hands, we're we're literally symbolically saying that they would they are the same persons, you know, they are the same, they are what needs to be solved and saved. They they they can't do it without each other. So I I would I would split the line straight down and say this is absolutely a dual protagonist story, and it works. If one if one doesn't change or grow, the other fails equally.
SPEAKER_01:I mean, I love I love that point. I mean, I the one thing that I was thinking about especially like in this the tail end of the film though, is obviously Bastion goes through a huge arc.
SPEAKER_05:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Um, and I love I love seeing that play out. And I'm kind of wondering like, what is the arc for Artreyu? Because he is this warrior, and I mean, even at the end, he's not like really quite understanding um what needs to take place, which I get. I mean, he is grounded in within his own world. So this idea of like well, what this human child needs to do this thing, like why isn't he doing it? Like, I could tell that there's still confusion, and then he kind of you know, then then the the rest of the story really pivots immediately to the childlike empress, where like all of a sudden you don't even see a triyu, and she's like directly calling out to Bastion to help them. So you never really see uh resolution in that way for a triyu of like understanding, and I'm just curious like what you see as his arc, and maybe it's something that like I'm missing.
SPEAKER_04:No, I'm willing to admit defeat on that one. Um he he he absolutely has moments of weakness, but he never deviates from the course, you know. Right. Horse dies, keep going. Old turtle sneezes on him, keep going. Like, like uh Wolf attacks him, he admits, like, man, this is tough. Uh all hope is lost, but keeps going. Like he never he never deviates from his trail. Now, Bastion, on the other hand, he he absolutely has to grow into himself, get the courage, get the strength. Uh he has moments of weakness. Now, the while we're talking about moments of weakness, there is a moment in this movie that I guarantee doesn't affect people very much, but it is uh so influential on myself. When Bastion doesn't eat his entire sandwich and says, No, I better save this for later, I said, That kid's got willpower like I only could play for.
SPEAKER_03:It's incredible when he pushes his sandwich away. I was like, Oh, I wouldn't be so large if I just had Bastion's willpower. Alas.
SPEAKER_01:No, I noticed that too because I was like, How is he? How he took like two bites. And he's like, And then I gotta save it.
SPEAKER_02:The long journey ahead. Yeah, I mean his own.
SPEAKER_04:I'm like, I'm like, I'm like indexed or whichever whatever ones first. Index, right? Indexed, sandwich gone. Page two. Uh still long yeah.
SPEAKER_02:So the way that I felt about Atreyu, like his in in the story in Fantasia, his his mission, I guess, or his goal is to try to find the cure for the empress. But really, his his whole job was to get was to bring this moment together where the empress could have that direct like speaking directly to Bastion. That was really like his whole, that was his mission, was to get Bastion to that point where he would be in a place where he could actually hear the words of the Empress and believe them. Yeah.
SPEAKER_05:Yep.
SPEAKER_02:So he likes failed to really succeeded.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah. Oh, the Empress literally tells him, Right, no, Atreu, you were to bring the human boy to me. And you did, you know? It's like, oh, oh, uh, speaking of the Empress and how cool she is, I'm sure you read about this. Have we covered this?
unknown:Yeah.
SPEAKER_04:Have we talked about the Empress? We talked about how great she is. Um, I I'm just gonna quickly uh Facebook here. Um, no, but like, but like the the way the I'm sure you read that she lost her front teeth in the just before, and she had a wicked lisp. So they built her a fake two front teeth, which by the way, I was staring at whoever built that, perfect job matching.
SPEAKER_00:Very good job, especially from the 80s, man.
SPEAKER_02:I mean to get a dentist, possibly a dentist, yeah.
SPEAKER_04:It could have, it could have, it could have been the prop person. Um, but uh whoever worked on Falcor made her teeth.
SPEAKER_02:Exactly.
SPEAKER_04:Falcor's teeth were fantastic. Maybe they just used one of them. Um, no, but the way she had to talk and articulate around them gave her much more of an adult speech. Like it made her have to like focus on lip movement. And I was really watching that and it was super neat. And I wonder if she still had her baby teeth or if they well, we'll just say baby teeth because they clearly fell out. If she still had her baby teeth, if her lips and her jaw movement would have been faster or twisted or different or whatever, but like because of those fake teeth, I I know whenever I have to wear my Invisalign, I I speak a little bit more like the king's speech, you know, like I just have to like really focus my mouth. And anyway, it was just a thought while I was like watching the very intent.
SPEAKER_01:No, I I completely agree with you. I mean, I think I and this is something that actually wasn't just with this last screening. I always uh picked up on just a hint, a hint of a lisp with her. Um, and I do know that she had to practice a lot to to get rid of like the more obvious lisp that she had initially. And as somebody who uh has had her two front teeth busted out, I can tell you that it is really, really hard to try to speak normally when you have something that's like temporary in in your mouth because it I mean, we can go in a huge rabbit hole about all this, it has nothing to do with film.
SPEAKER_04:Hey, I knocked my front tooth out too. You and I are you and I are twins.
SPEAKER_01:Actually, Brett did.
SPEAKER_04:Damn that best friend.
SPEAKER_01:Pom pom camp.
SPEAKER_04:Um, pom pom camp. More please.
SPEAKER_01:I was drinking a clearly Canadian, and somebody didn't see me, and she was doing a move and pop.
SPEAKER_04:Oh, wowzers. Also, why was the can kind of tilted to your top toe? Oh, nice.
SPEAKER_01:A clearly Canadian is was all glass.
SPEAKER_04:Oh, wow. Wow. Popped them right out.
SPEAKER_01:Um, well, shattered them more accurately. Accurately. I could feel the pieces on my on my tongue.
SPEAKER_02:And you didn't even have the entirety of the world of fantasia on your shoulders. No, you were in the sea of sorrow right there.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. That was that was actually an incredibly traumatic moment for me.
SPEAKER_03:Let's relive it. Let's relive it.
SPEAKER_01:But uh I mean, once you get good dental work done, it's all it's all gravy. But um, but when you have something that's temp in there, holy cow, it you can't think of anything else because your mouth is like tiny, tiny eco, uh, like uh what is it? What Derek? Ecocosm? Is that a word?
SPEAKER_02:No, I don't think that is a word.
SPEAKER_01:Well, say the word then.
SPEAKER_02:Ego Ecosystem?
SPEAKER_01:Ego system. Thank you.
SPEAKER_04:A terrarium. I think you're looking for the word terrarium.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, it's like its own special little thing. So when you have something foreign in there, it's like so I mean, think about it. When you like have like a popcorn kernel, you know, it's like stuck. Or even when you floss and somehow the floss has anyway.
SPEAKER_04:No, when well now I get to tell my tooth story. Yes, please do. It's tooth stories and it's movies, and it's movies. So so speaking of that Brett guy again, who constantly is through this podcast, I don't even understand. Um but uh he and I were racing on the ice and he like spun out and I slipped and fell and smashed my teeth on the ice. And uh, but I smashed my front right one, but it shattered it perfectly in half, but serendipitously, it happened to be right when Dumb and Dumber came out. So I had my right tooth exactly cracked at the same thing, and everybody at school, because I could remove it because they gave me a temp thing, that was like kind of like capped, and I could remove it, and everyone was like, Oh, that's so cool. And so I always dumb and dumber has a special place because it got me through. Yeah, it got me through that. Like, you could tell middle school, are you kidding me? Chip front tooth. I mean, that's a horrendous experience, but then because of Dumb and Dumber, everybody was like, that's so funny.
SPEAKER_01:That is that's a really fun story. Yeah, thanks, Jim Carrey.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Speaking of serendipitous, and I did I say that right? Yeah. Okay, great.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah. Now you're all known contents.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah.
SPEAKER_04:By the way, I want to go back and say table of contents, not index. But oh, there you go.
SPEAKER_01:There you go. Good correction. Um, I thought it was incredibly lucky, I guess it makes sense since he's a luck dragon, that Falkor survived the implosion of Fantasia. Because like it's one thing for a luck dragon to be able to fly the world of Fantasia, but he was like literally flying through space. And that was something I picked up on. I was like, oh, that's interesting.
SPEAKER_04:And Atreyu doesn't need any atmosphere at all. Right. Everybody's cool with just floating in nothingness, breathing, the air temperature is fine. I mean, we don't know what their solar system is in Fantasia.
SPEAKER_02:We don't know.
SPEAKER_04:We don't know.
SPEAKER_02:I mean, that was pretty ridiculous, but I did think the effects of all the different pieces of Fantasia colliding and exploding, that was pretty cool. That was probably that was solid even till today. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:It was that was solid. I mean, it's also very lucky that the entirety of the ivory tower survived on its one piece of rock. Um, I mean, now I'm now I'm getting a little snippety with.
SPEAKER_02:I love that they they rule from a literal ivory tower. Yeah, exactly.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, you don't you don't need to uh you you don't need to get snippety on it because it's it I can actually defend it. I mean, he got a luck, he got a luck dragon. And like one of I'm gonna go now to the 2000s. Yeah, I'm gonna go down to the 2000s now, or the 2000s, whatever, 19s, um, with Deadpool 2. Did you guys see that?
SPEAKER_00:Oh, yeah. We did.
SPEAKER_04:That luck character is some uh Domino, is that her name? Yeah, she's so funny in that movie, and it made total sense. And while I was watching the Luck Dragon, because I like Domino so much, I was like, oh, that makes total sense. Like it's better to have like like Falkor's, like, I don't have any skills. We'll use luck. And then because of like Domino doing the same thing in like this badass movie, I was like, Oh, yeah, that works. I would rather be lucky than good. Isn't that the saying?
SPEAKER_02:It is, yeah. Luck's not a superpower, apparently it is. Well, apparently it is.
SPEAKER_01:Okay, well, then I like I'm all in on what you said. I think I wish they would have played it up a little bit more. That's what is so interesting about this film, is that I okay, so when we had just wrapped watching it last night, I told Derek, and I was like, this isn't meant as a dig, it is straight up an hour and a half film. And it does move really quickly, but it also feels longer than an hour and a half film. But then you get these like really rapid introductions of these characters that come in and that's another one. Falcor does not come into the film until like halfway through.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, he saves them from the well, he saves Atreyu from the swamp of sadness and the how do you say that again?
SPEAKER_01:The wolf?
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, like Nurga Nurga Nurga. Like Gar Garlock or something like that. He saves him from that, and um and then he's just adorable the rest of the way.
SPEAKER_04:Oh, he's so adorable. I'm telling you, in real life, still adorable. You get to get on him, you get to mount him and ride it. It's awesome.
SPEAKER_01:What about the scales?
SPEAKER_04:Uh no, I I thought the scales were interesting to make a dragony, very eerie deficit.
SPEAKER_01:It is, it is, yeah. If he had been all fluff, he would have been just like a flying dog.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:So they had to have the scales, but I do remember, and it still sticks with me, that like as a child, as a child, it was a little like, oh, really, yeah.
SPEAKER_02:I don't like the text.
SPEAKER_04:Oh, the whole movie as a child has has off moments, but with when I think about it, I mean, I think you have to have moments that are above your head or or kind of kick you off kilter or whatever. And I think that's what makes it so legendary while you're watching it is you you you have these ups and downs, you know? So like uh yeah, I I I really liked it. I remember that.
SPEAKER_02:I'm just glad that the giant turtle was still as cool today as I remembered it as a kid.
SPEAKER_04:Oh, so good. And and his stunt of like holding on to that tree. That actor, I mean, we can get into this part.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, that we should get to that right now because that that is something that um yeah, I also read about is they, I mean, did they even have stunt doubles for this poor kid? Because he got hurt multiple times.
SPEAKER_04:Clearly, he did not, he got messed up. And and Wolfgang was one of those directors who like did 40 takes on things like that. Like that that sort of thing I do think is a little unexcusable, inexcusable. Yeah, um, where like yes, you can be a mastery of your craft, but you you can't break kids, you know. Like that's that's a little obtuse. Um and uh, but no, he got messed up, and you could see like over and over and over why and how, but but to his testament, that kid is a bad ass. Like he just had that like core strength that was incredible, incredible core strength.
SPEAKER_01:It was a like an amazingly demanding physical role. And I was thinking about that when he was like walking through the swamp of sadness, like I you could see the real struggle. I don't know what they did to make that thing.
SPEAKER_02:Take 40.
SPEAKER_01:But yeah, it it was incredible what he did.
SPEAKER_02:How old was he in that when he was in that role?
SPEAKER_01:I could take a look.
SPEAKER_04:Gotta be like 10 and 11. Because he still had that like pre-pubescent look to him, you know.
SPEAKER_01:Um, yeah, I mean, both that was one thing that uh I don't know why this had to be a thing in the book, but apparently the character of Bastion he is an overweight child.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, and so they maybe that's the sandwich thing, you know? He said, I better wait on this. And uh, maybe in the book he was like, Oh, good thing I got three more. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:But I think that is one thing that again, and I think it it works. It works. So he was about 13.
SPEAKER_03:Okay.
SPEAKER_01:Um, in any case, one thing that uh works for both Bastion and Atreyu is that when you get these long shots of them, like you're like, oh, they're they are they're children, like they're really little.
SPEAKER_04:You use you speak total truth on that because there's when he's running away from the bullies, Bastion's running away from the bullies, I felt like I could wrap my fingers around his entire waist. Yeah, like he had one of those like elastic band uh Levi's, you know, that were like so adorable. I was like, run, Bastion, run. Which brings me to my next point. Argue me this. Were those 80s bullies incredible? They were incredible.
SPEAKER_02:They like there's no like, it's just, hey, we're here, we're gonna fucking rob you. You better fucking run. And that was it. There was like no, like, oh, I hate these kids from school. There was it was just, hey, look at Bastion. We're gonna fucking rob his ass.
SPEAKER_04:They looked, they exactly, they looked literally perfect for the role.
SPEAKER_02:They just one little shit with the fucking leather jacket. I hated that one.
SPEAKER_04:I don't get me started on that there. Don't get me started. But but speaking to Anna's point about the badass stunts, did you see them both front flip into the dumpster? And then they front flip them to the dumpster. Then the dumpster door falls, and their little fingers are still there. And I'm just so curious. And then we go on a side shot, and on the side shot, I look, and it sure as shit looked like a metal top. And I was like, oh my gosh, like, did they get their fingers out in time? Or, you know, like, or are there some like really hurt fingers right there?
SPEAKER_02:Maybe a spacer or something so that it there's enough of a gap. Do you think they they probably didn't think that far?
SPEAKER_04:Not according to all the other stories.
SPEAKER_02:They thought far enough ahead to fill the trash can with what appeared to be hay. Or the material that you would use to fill like an Easter egg box.
SPEAKER_04:Exactly.
SPEAKER_02:Exactly.
SPEAKER_01:And and I actually, yeah, I clocked that too when we were watching it last night. I was like, oh wow, great little stunt that those two kids did. And I mean, I will say that the whole, you know, they like immediately fall in, and then like the next shot when they like peek out, they're all of a sudden like super dirty, where I'm like, eh, I don't know. Like that kind of stuff. Just dusty though, like a little dusty and like actually Bastion was when he went in. Like they like really kind of overdid it a touch.
SPEAKER_02:Um for them to immediately scream at him like we didn't tell you you could get out of there. Yeah, these little fucking assholes.
SPEAKER_04:Well, that's what I'm saying. These 80, I'm telling you, karate kid bullies, uh, the the the all the bullies of the 80s are just so good.
SPEAKER_02:There were three openings at the Cobra Kai Dojo just waiting for these three kids.
SPEAKER_04:Just ready for them. Just ready. I wonder the casting agent who's like, yeah, I I specialize in 80s bullies. Uh, I just have a whole slew of these aspects.
SPEAKER_00:Troy from the Goonies. He's a great bully.
SPEAKER_04:Exactly. Like, like, I think what the 80s did really, really, really well is they they really made like the bullies like upper class, you know, like they just like they made it a class issue where like then everybody could, yeah, everybody could always be like, yeah, you know what? You know what? Fuck the upper class. You know, it's an easy thing, it's an easy thing to hate.
SPEAKER_03:It's an easy thing to be like, yeah, you're right, you're right. You know, yuppie bullies.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah. So I just I I definitely noted the bullies. I I just I freaking it just reminded me how much I love 80s and that, just that, like what Derek was saying. Like, did we tell you you could get out?
SPEAKER_02:Like, oh man, that's I hate these kids. I I wish Falkor had just like eaten them.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, well, we don't know what happened after. He might have circled back.
SPEAKER_02:I mean, it was just him like screaming and then Bashin, yeah.
SPEAKER_04:Well, so so that's a good question. Could only the kids see him, or could the people, because it looked sure as shit looked like the people on the street were like like freaking out.
SPEAKER_02:Which they were yeah, they were looking in the direction of it, but I don't know, were they direct were they looking that way because they were reacting to the kids running, or did they actually see Falcor? I don't know. That's a good question.
SPEAKER_01:The reason why I think they saw Falcor, and I know this is such a like a random thing to have picked up on, when he was coming down the street, I distinctly remember, like, I know you're supposed to be focusing on the bullies, but like I think behind the bullies there was a businessman, and he like the reason why I clocked it is because I thought it was like a weird action to take. He like laid down his um his briefcase.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, I saw that too on the on the right, on the on the back right. Yep. And I also clocked uh a car, like went to turn right, and then like was like, Well, that's close for filming, and like turned left and kept going. I was like, holy shit, did they not close this street? Like, you should definitely watch that scene again because the car totally goes to go right. He was like, nope, nope, nope, nope, nope, nope.
SPEAKER_03:Like some PA is like, no, we have a luck dragon coming down. No, closed, keep going.
SPEAKER_01:So one thing that I like, kind of just a little bit going off of what you were just saying, because of the outdoors, we get so little of that. Um, I typically take issue when I'm watching something and I don't know where they're supposed to be in the world, but I think it actually works for the story that you don't quite know. Obviously, it's like a city, it appears that they wanted it to look like an American city, but you don't quite know. And I think that that works really well because he, I think in some ways, like Bastion, he kind of is like the everyday kid who is more caught up in his fantasy life and his fantasy world than the real world. And the real world in this story is fantasia.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, fantasia is more important than whatever random city they happen to be in.
unknown:Yeah.
SPEAKER_04:Now, that being said, for all you uh football and uh baseball fans in the world, or Minnesotans, as a kid growing up, I always thought it was downtown Minneapolis because there's that dome in the background with the inflated uh white dome. Um and uh and so all of you who knew that the Minnesota was famous for having the inflatable dome where all the sports teams played up until like three years ago. Um it's down the shot and there's the dome. And I we were 1,000% convinced that that was our that that was our downtown because there was a dome. Now we learn it's Canada, but um uh yeah, that was always that was always something that really connected. So I'm curious if your Minnesota fans or those who knew it ever saw that dome. Or maybe you guys weren't even looking at the dome, but like for us, we saw it and focused and were like, holy crap, it's the dome, it's the dome.
SPEAKER_01:So well, okay, so one thing that you had mentioned when we were talking about bullies and just you know the state of 80s films, I think that that leads us to kind of like a great kind of closing topic, which is the idea of whether or not a film like this could be made today. And if it was, what would that film look like?
SPEAKER_02:Oh, I gotta jump in and say, I want this to be remade as a Netflix series.
SPEAKER_04:I I couldn't agree with you more. I couldn't agree with you more. Yeah. I think this is absolutely positively remakeable. I think it's absolutely positively wonderful. I think it's I think the journey of this kid behind the book, influencing the book, and then we're the third party outside of it looking in. Uh, I think I think some people could get in and just totally crush this movie um in like in like the best ways possible and just really bring the dark moments and the scary moments because I I think we even glossed over it, Anna, but like you were saying like the movie's only an hour and 30 minutes, and I'm sure you're gonna talk about that. Spielberg edited it, um, yada yada in your in your in your precursor to this. But um uh like like they just drop characters in. They're like, you want a rock guy, pop, here's a rock guy. You want somebody who's on a racing snail, pop, here's a racing snail. Yeah, where are they going? We don't know. Pop, you know, like like like it it's done masterfully because we don't care. And uh, and at the end of the day, this movie, I I wanted to say this just as like a filmmaker, this movie is super, super intimate. Like, you spend so much time with a tree you and so much time with just Sebastian by himself. It's like incredibly well done, how how limited of actors there were in it. Um but no, I totally agree with Derek. Like this this movie is ripe for for a remake and and and exploration of these characters.
SPEAKER_01:I mean, I would be open to the idea, the thing that, and this is usually what I fear, and it often comes true, is that like when they remake something that part of what this the appeal of this film is is the practical effects. And I would just be afraid that everything would go CGI and it, I mean, it's like kind of the Lucas problem between the original three Star Wars and then what he did later on, and it just loses that magic. And I feel like that they would inevitably do that because as we talked about earlier, this was an incredibly expensive film, I'm guessing in large part because of the sets and all that. And I would just be really nervous that they wouldn't adhere to kind of that authenticity, which yes, you know, 30 plus years on, it it has uh some things hold up better than others, but um, but it's all endearing. It's part of the charm of the film. And I just don't know if they could replicate that.
SPEAKER_02:I think you know, I I look at something like The Dark Crystal, where they made kind of like that prequel series where they retained a lot of the practical effects in the puppetry. I think they could. I think like a blend of practical and digital effects would probably go a long way in like really improving the overall experience. I think you you could like in some ways you'd want to keep some of the practical stuff, but um this as much as any movie that we've talked about so far, has some stuff that hold that still hold up, but a lot of things that just are are pretty wonky. So I think if they if they did it, and if they did it particularly in kind of like I don't know, like a limited series, or if they that would probably be more realistic than having like sequels again, given what happened with the other sequels, but a way to kind of like give some stories to some of these other characters, yeah characters, if those exist and if they don't, like I'd watch them if they just made them up, it'd be fine because they're all like kind of cool characters that you just never really learn as much about them as you'd like to.
SPEAKER_01:That's why I wouldn't mind seeing it.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah.
SPEAKER_04:And I would say like this we're never getting rid of the old movie, you know? Right. So it's always gonna be there. And the way I always define the question of should this be remade or should it not be remade? I say, how big is the world to explore? And the world is huge here and unexplored. So so so that that's the answer. Like, like, does do Harry Potters need to be remade? No. They explore the world. You know what I mean? Like, like the when the world is heavily explored, does Goonies need to be remade? No. They explored the world. Does never-ending story need to be remade? Yes, the world is unexplored. Like, like, go for it. Don't, don't, and that's why I would side with Derek. You don't need to make a shot shot for shot replica. That's that's that's not needed. And maybe that leads into what Anna's saying. Like, you don't need a shot-for-shot replica, but opening, cracking the world more, hell yes. Let's go for it. I'm all about it.
SPEAKER_05:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Well, on that note, Mike, thank you so much.
SPEAKER_02:This has been this has been a lot of fun. Thank you.
SPEAKER_04:I feel like you guys, I feel like you guys probably had bullet points, and you didn't know what kind of guest you had on.
SPEAKER_02:No, this was great. Knowing what kind of guest we had coming, I have no bullet points.
SPEAKER_04:Good, good.
SPEAKER_01:No, this is awesome. We loved hearing about your friend Brent.
SPEAKER_04:Um shout out to Brent and Luke, Luke Cheetah spelled with a T.
SPEAKER_01:Yes, uh, yes, yes. We'll we'll definitely have him on the show in the future. Um, so yeah, the this has been so fun. It's obvious that you adore this movie. And like I've said many times before, like our guests never fail us, and just providing like amazing commentary for all these different movies. Um, so thank you for your time today. I, you know, like I had introduced you, we all know that you're a filmmaker, and I just wanted to ask what you've been up to lately. I know we're in strange times, but um what what projects do you have going on?
SPEAKER_04:You know what? You you you say you say we're in strange times, and uh, and what was interesting last night watching this is uh the the wolf. We still cannot get at his name, um, or her name. I don't know. Um uh the wolf was like it is time, the nothingness is in is when there's despair and no hope. And I was like, oh shit, COVID totally destroyed them, totally totally destroyed Fantasia. Like, there's no hope and despair everywhere. I was just like devastated. Um, but that's not what the question you asked. Uh I just want to talk about an emerending story constantly. Um It's okay.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, I mean there is there is like a depth to this film that resonates right now that otherwise it maybe wouldn't have.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, maybe that's it. Maybe that's exactly it. Gamork. Gamork was his name, by the way.
SPEAKER_01:Gamork was I was close. I knew it started with a G and ended with a K.
SPEAKER_04:I was the furthest from it. So quick, quick, quick last question. Quick last question, a serious question. Because my wife always accuses me of like crying during commercials, so I'm a bit of an emotional person. But did any of you cry during the end of this movie?
SPEAKER_02:I did not.
SPEAKER_01:When I was a I know I know that I had emotional, like an emotional response when I was a kid, not as an adult, because I'm I'm ha like I I know I cried for sure um the first couple times I saw our tax die. Um I know that I also got emotional when the Empress was calling out to Bastion.
SPEAKER_04:That's yeah. Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_01:So I have those responses, but maybe kind of like what you were saying, like at the top of our time together, like since it had been a while since I had seen it, I think I I don't know, there was like a little bit of a distance that I had from the film, other than when I because I same as you, like I watched it all the time as a kid. So um yeah.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, the the R-text did not get me. The R-Tex, like I said, did not get me because it's too fast, and I think you have to have a residual build to really have that hit. But when the princess was begging, tears were flow. I mean, this was like 12:30 at night. Tears were flowing down my face. I was oh man, just flowing down my face. Unlike Derek, the cold, heartless man. I watched emotionless. Yeah, you were like, give her a name or don't. Who cares about Fantasia? Move on. Blow the dust. Derek walks over and just blows that piece of dust.
SPEAKER_02:Stupid sand. It's annoying sand everywhere.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah. In my swim trunks.
SPEAKER_01:But I mean, normally I normally, yeah, when I was a kid for sure. I mean, this is a lot of these 80s films that were made for kids with this like range of emotions that they make their uh adolescent viewers go through. I cried, I've cried at a lot of these films as a kid.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, yeah. Well, your viewers, your viewers should absolutely uh uh watch this again and really put their mind into it and and just let it let if they haven't visited this again, visit it again and just let themselves go. Because uh to me, that prince, that empress, oh, tears, tears, tears, tears, tears. But yeah, anyway, the question you asked was, how's Brett doing? He's doing sugar. Um the question you asked, the question you asked was, what am I up to? Um yeah, no, we uh as I briefly mentioned, my code director and I of uh of a recent feature film are uh we're editing uh a feature film to be released here this this year, well to be done this year and released next year. Um and uh and yeah, we're really looking forward to that. And more more details will be coming out on on that one. I uh I I definitely um it's it's gonna be a good one. It's gonna be a good film and more to come later when when there's more details about it. But uh otherwise, just just hanging in there.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. Well, we have thoroughly enjoyed having you on the show. Would love to have you back. And uh yeah, maybe we'll have you back so that uh we can talk about another fun 80s movie and you can give us an update on that movie of yours.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, you got it, you got it. Well, an absolute pleasure here as well. So uh may this podcast be never ending, and we'll talk with you later.
SPEAKER_02:All right, talk to you later, Mike. Bye.
SPEAKER_01:Perfect. And so that was our really fun conversation with Mike Anderson. He's great, and it's obvious that he loves this movie, and like I have said before, our guests never fail us. They always have really great things to say about our movies.
SPEAKER_02:It's true. Yeah, no, I mean it was it was great, and uh, I don't know how you couldn't love that movie, although Mike told us specifically about someone who didn't like it, and I think we're all happy that that person is no longer in his part of part of Mike's life, yeah. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:As if we have any say over that in any way. Um Okay, so I mean you you mentioned it uh earlier, actually, right before we went into the conversation with the movie.
SPEAKER_02:That I'm gonna watch all the montages.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, so so I guess mutually here, like yeah. Here's the thing this probably isn't a movie where I'm going to be like, hey, let's watch a movie. Let's watch the never-ending story.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, I I mean I think it's a great movie, and I I think that part of that probably is because of the nostalgia factor. I it it holds up for me because it was such a beloved movie when I was a kid. If it was on, I would probably watch it wherever it was wherever it happened to be. But I'm probably not going out of my way to watch it. And part of that is because some portions of it I don't think like have held up as well effects-wise, where it's like it's kind of like wonky. Um and we talked about it with Mike. I would totally be on board with like either a remake or if they like did a refresh or reboot of it. And I think it's something that would that would work really well with that.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, I mean, even though I usually am a hard no on reboots and anything like that, that you know, pulls these beloved entities from the 80s and they want to refashion them, I'd be open to it because my Mike makes actually a really excellent point about how to guide your opinion with that kind of stuff. And I totally agree with him that you know, is this a world that's already been sufficiently explored?
SPEAKER_02:We don't even know the names of 90% of the colours. Exactly, exactly.
SPEAKER_01:So so yeah, when he put it that way, I was like, he's yeah, he's absolutely right. This is a world that actually we just scratched the surface of.
SPEAKER_02:I would literally watch a series just about racing snails at this point.
SPEAKER_01:Well, then you need to watch Turbo. That's an Ellis Fast. Yeah, that's an Ellis Fast. Okay. So moving on to our sneak peek of our next I I know it's my pick.
SPEAKER_02:Uh huh. I'm I'm like racking my brains right now to to think of what it is, but I'll say this much. Okay. I'll say this much. Life life moves pretty fast. If you don't stop and look around once in a while, you could miss it. That's all I gotta say about our next uh our next movie, which just happens to be Ferris Bueller's Day Off. Yeah. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:So this will be our second John Hughes film that we'll be covering this season. Um and you know, we do this, we trade off with like our quote picks. But uh but this is definitely one of my favorites as well. I mean, I I I don't think I've ever come across a person who didn't love Ferris Bheelers Day Off.
SPEAKER_02:Well, we can let that's our call to action.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_02:If you hate this movie, I guess, please let us know how you hate Ferris Bueller's Day Off.
SPEAKER_01:Um, I mean, okay. Yes. First things first, if you want to reach out to us to talk about your not wholly positive feelings towards Ferris Bheelers Day Off, you can reach us through Facebook, Twitter, Instagram. It's the same handle for all three. It is at 80smontagepod and 80s is 80S. So definitely we would love to hear from you. Now, what I was like tripping over my words trying to get out was that I have heard some people who have different uh takes on what the movie's supposed to be about.
SPEAKER_00:Okay.
SPEAKER_01:And we'll we can get into that with our special guest. She's great. Um, really looking forward to our conversation with her. You know, I don't know if you've ever heard some of these theories that the whole thing is just Cameron's imagination. Kind of like a fight club kind of thing. I've never heard that. Really? You've never heard that. Yeah, that's like a pretty popular conspiracy theory that the whole thing is imagined and that Ferris Bueller doesn't even exist.
SPEAKER_02:Holy shit.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, it's all just Cameron's imagination. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:Does Cameron exist?
SPEAKER_01:Cameron exists.
SPEAKER_02:Okay.
SPEAKER_01:Um, and then also, I mean, to a less kind of like, you know, uh out there theory, just in terms of like Ferris isn't really like the hero of this, like kind of how people have uh jokes. About Daniel from The Karate Kid being the villain.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Um, and that Ferris, in fact, is kind of a bully because he makes everybody do like bend to his will.
SPEAKER_02:I mean, people can say no to him.
SPEAKER_01:People could, yeah. I mean, as Cameron has, he's like, I could have said no. I didn't, but I could have.
SPEAKER_00:Exactly.
SPEAKER_01:Um, okay, so that as you can tell, we have lots of thoughts already about this one. So uh that will be coming out after Labor Day, as we do every two weeks with our episodes.
SPEAKER_02:Hopefully after the heat wave.
SPEAKER_01:After the heat wave. All right. So, guys, thank you so much for sticking with us, and we look forward to having you next time. All right. Bye.