'80s Movie Montage
Breaking down our favorite decade of flicks. Hosted by Anna Keizer and Derek Dehanke.
'80s Movie Montage
Fatal Attraction
In this episode, Anna and Derek debate just how easy Dan did or didn't get off (pun intended) given his indiscretion, whether Alex's descent into instability was depicted realistically, and much more during their discussion of the Adrian Lyne thriller and Best Picture nominee Fatal Attraction (1987).
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Anna Keizer and Derek Dehanke are the co-hosts of ‘80s Movie Montage. The idea for the podcast came when they realized just how much they talk – a lot – when watching films from their favorite cinematic era. Their wedding theme was “a light nod to the ‘80s,” so there’s that, too. Both hail from the Midwest but have called Los Angeles home for several years now. Anna is a writer who received her B.A. in Film/Video from Columbia College Chicago and M.A. in Film Studies from Chapman University. Her dark comedy short She Had It Coming was an Official Selection of 25 film festivals with several awards won for it among them. Derek is an attorney who also likes movies. It is a point of pride that most of their podcast episodes are longer than the movies they cover.
I'm pregnant. I'm going to have our child. Alex, that's your choice, honey. That has nothing to do with me. I just want to be a part of your life. Oh, this is the way you do it, huh? Showing up at my apartment? What am I supposed to do? You won't answer my calls. You change your number. I'm not going to be ignored, Dan.
SPEAKER_01:Hello and welcome to 80s Movie Montage. This is Derek.
SPEAKER_03:And this is Anna.
SPEAKER_01:And that is someone who was not ignored, really, at any point in the movie. That being Alex, played by Glenn Close, talking to Dan.
SPEAKER_03:Dan.
SPEAKER_01:Played by Michael Douglas in 1987's Fatal Attraction.
SPEAKER_03:Did you just say 1997? No, I said
SPEAKER_01:1987's Fatal Attraction.
UNKNOWN:Okay.
SPEAKER_03:This is correct.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:Except for maybe to say that she wasn't at any point ignored. But we'll get into that. That's what this whole conversation is going to be about. Not for lack of trying. He may have tried to ignore her. He most definitely tried to ignore her. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:But yeah. Fatal attraction. I'm very excited to talk about this one with you.
SPEAKER_01:It was for... As intense and serious as it is, there were many moments we were just laughing at the predicament that when the phone would ring and the reaction.
SPEAKER_03:That is the funniest part of the whole movie. It's the way that he would get every single time a phone ring in this movie, they would cut to Michael Douglas. Who just shit his pants. Yeah.
UNKNOWN:So good.
SPEAKER_03:Love that. There's a lot.
SPEAKER_01:I mean, this is truly one of those films that... That's probably like a terror that most people modern day wouldn't think of. Like just
SPEAKER_04:a
SPEAKER_01:phone ringing that anyone could get. It's not his cell phone maybe got a ping. It's the phone that anyone could get up and answer. I was
SPEAKER_03:just going to say, and now to be clear, I mean, I don't know if I'm really that interested in ever watching it, but we have not seen what I presume is the reboot with... Lizzie
SPEAKER_01:Kaplan.
SPEAKER_03:Pacey from Dawson's Creek. Oh, yeah. And yeah, and Lizzie Kaplan. So I don't know how much that plays into it. I mean, that's like what a miniseries is it meant to go on or is it a limited series? I don't know. But in any case, yeah, this is very much like a snapshot in time type of 80s movie with the phone ringing. And then also even just the, you know, when the wife keeps answering and Alex doesn't say anything.
SPEAKER_01:Star 69, I guess Star 69 didn't exist at that point.
SPEAKER_03:That's a great question. I don't remember when it started. And one thing that I think is so interesting about this film and we'll go over, I think, with the normal people that we cover, we will cover all the nominations. This is a multi Oscar nominated film.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. I mean, there were some amazing performances. I'm not surprised.
SPEAKER_03:Including Best Pitcher.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:This was nominated for Best Pitcher. I
SPEAKER_01:mean, it it leaves an impact like you're definitely going through it. while you're watching it's a
SPEAKER_03:very uncomfortable movie
SPEAKER_01:to watch yeah yeah so just from the perspective of like we would watch a movie or read a story or like like consume a movie or something to feel something and this definitely makes you feel something that's
SPEAKER_03:true that's true I'm not sure now I usually have the opposite argument about films that I love that would never even be in Oscar consideration nowadays, like a film like Tootsie that was nominated in multiple categories, I don't think would even... be a thought in somebody's mind if it was made today for the Oscars.
SPEAKER_01:I don't think it would make it past the pitching process. Exactly. You want a what? No, we can't do that.
SPEAKER_03:This one's a little bit the opposite for me. I agree with you. I agree that there are some really great performances. I'm not sure if it would have occurred to me for it to be a best pitcher contender, but that just also shows you the impact that it had at that time. Yeah. Okay. You mentioned 1987. I did.
SPEAKER_01:I didn't even say 97. I swear. We'll rewind it.
SPEAKER_03:We'll play back the tape. Writer. So we have one writer for this, James Dearden. So this is actually– so he wrote the screenplay, I think– We were laughing about that, too.
SPEAKER_01:Based on the screenplay by James Dearden.
SPEAKER_03:I think that's actually a typo.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:Because he did a short film.
SPEAKER_01:Should be based on the short or something.
SPEAKER_03:Because it made no sense to say screenplay by James Dearden based on the screenplay by James Dearden.
SPEAKER_01:It was off to a great start.
SPEAKER_03:It was a weird way to open. 13 total writing credits. He was nominated Best Adapted Screenplay for this show. Okay. Okay. A couple films, Pascali's Island. I know this one, Kiss Before Dying, I've heard that one. Christmas Survival.
SPEAKER_01:Okay, I'm interested.
SPEAKER_03:And then because of him being the originator of this material, he does have a credit for the miniseries Fatal Attraction. That makes sense. Yeah. Is
SPEAKER_01:that an original enough idea? A guy cheats on his wife? Well, the same characters, right? You know what?
SPEAKER_03:I'm going to say that... Like back in like the 40s and 50s and the name of the director is totally escaping me. I'm embarrassed that I don't remember him. But there was like what they would call women pitchers. Okay. And I have a strong suspicion that there were probably some that fell along this type of storyline in terms of like a woman scorned.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:So I don't think that it was– All too much an original idea, but done in... I mean, very high-profile actors were part of it. Maybe that's the difference. I don't know. But in any case, we're going to have a lot of familiar names, actually, as we go through this. First of which, Adrienne Lynn.
SPEAKER_01:Okay.
SPEAKER_03:You know what? And that's actually me just saying that last name. I've heard people say Lyne. I've always called them Adrienne Lynn, but... But maybe I'm wrong. Maybe it's Adrian Lyne.
SPEAKER_01:What did we say before? The last time? I
SPEAKER_03:said Lynn.
SPEAKER_01:Okay.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Consistency.
SPEAKER_03:But then after the fact, I was listening to a podcast where they called him Lynn. Or Lyne.
SPEAKER_01:They were probably wrong. Oh my
SPEAKER_03:God. Mixing it up.
SPEAKER_01:I think we were probably right.
SPEAKER_03:Sure. We were right. So, very well-known director. Has very much a style of directing. And... He got, so we already brought up one nomination that was for Best Adapted Screenplay. He got a Best Director Oscar nomination for this film, his first and only so far. Not sure. I mean, he's older now, so I'm not sure, like, how busy he is. But some very well-known films under his belt. Do you remember which one we covered with him just earlier this
SPEAKER_01:year? It may have been 1983's Flashdance.
SPEAKER_03:And it was.
SPEAKER_01:Okay.
SPEAKER_03:It was 1983's Flashdance. So go check that one out. That was a really fun one to talk about. And Flashdance, I think, gives you like a little bit of insight into where he's going with his career in terms of kind of the focus on– Kind of like sexual dynamics, sexual relationships. That is definitely a through line in a lot of his films. Some of which include, so earlier work, Foxes. We already mentioned Flashdance. So here you go. If you want to like kind of encapsulate maybe a quintessential Line, Lin film, Nine and a Half Weeks.
SPEAKER_01:Okay.
SPEAKER_03:I don't know if we're ever going to cover.
SPEAKER_01:I've never seen it.
SPEAKER_03:I don't know if I've seen it. It's one of those films where I feel like I might have seen it way too young.
SPEAKER_01:Well, when did you see it? And then I'll read the synopsis.
SPEAKER_03:Well, it would have been like probably on cable when I was a kid.
SPEAKER_01:Okay. A New York art gallery curator starts a torrid love affair with a suave stranger who keeps pushing her boundaries.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:That sounds like good.
SPEAKER_03:With Kim Basinger and Mickey Rourke. Okay. Yeah. Okay. So, I mean, two high-profile actors, I don't know if it's a film that I really feel like we need to break down,
SPEAKER_01:but... Like, just the synopsis gives me Shades of Grey vibes.
SPEAKER_03:Shades of Grey vibes, yeah.
SPEAKER_01:With the pushing of boundaries.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, totally. Definitely precursored to that. He did, here you go, a little bit outside of the box, Jacob's Ladder.
SPEAKER_01:That is definitely not a thriller. That is straight-up horror.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, that's what I, like, kind of outside of... His normal genre, I guess. But then he returns to form with Indecent Proposal.
SPEAKER_01:So he's really good at just making you uncomfortable.
SPEAKER_03:Yes. And following that up, if we want to really keep going down this rabbit hole, he does Lolita. Jesus Christ. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Okay. But what after that? I mean, I'm sure after that it was like family comedy.
SPEAKER_03:And then he does Unfaithful. Good! Which is... I wouldn't say like the inverse of fatal attraction, but it's basically like instead of the guy cheating on his wife, it's the wife cheating on her husband.
SPEAKER_01:The key art for that on IMDb just cracks me up because it's basically just like a naked torso of a guy with Michelle Pfeiffer's head.
SPEAKER_03:Michelle Pfeiffer?
SPEAKER_01:Oh, Diane Lane. Yeah,
SPEAKER_03:okay.
SPEAKER_01:She looks kind of like Michelle Pfeiffer in this.
SPEAKER_03:I can see that.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. I can see that.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:From the director of Fatal Attraction and Indecent Proposal.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, I know I've seen it. I don't think it's something I want to revisit. I mean, it certainly wouldn't be for this podcast. Yeah. But I'll just say he has a very distinct, usually, like with the films he takes on. He's
SPEAKER_01:got a thing.
SPEAKER_03:He's got a thing.
SPEAKER_01:Because the one after that is Deepwater.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah. I don't know what that– is that kind of in line or is
SPEAKER_01:that outside of– Totally. Yeah, same kind of thing. Is it? Okay.
SPEAKER_03:Okay. That one's– yeah, the most recent. That was the last credit I had
SPEAKER_01:for him. It is not like The Abyss. It is not about that kind of deep water.
SPEAKER_03:Okay. Okay. Yeah. It's– you know, that's great. I mean, one of the podcasts that I listened to not too long ago, very well-known podcast, so I wouldn't be surprised if people listening to this might also listen to You Most Remember This. And– Her– I think it was her most recent season. It was kind of a two-parter and it was basically about– first half was 80s films. Second half was 90s films. Lynn came up in both of them because it was about like kind of erotic thrillers.
SPEAKER_02:Okay.
SPEAKER_03:And that is– I think that would be the first person you would think of when you think of that type of film. And they definitely had their place in film history of being like really popular in the late 80s and early 90s. I
SPEAKER_01:mean they're probably still popular but much like– Yeah, I think
SPEAKER_03:of the ones that we've mentioned from him. This is probably the one that, like, I don't know if I'm going to revisit this again anytime soon, but probably the one that's most interesting to me. I
SPEAKER_01:can't wait for your question at the end of this episode.
SPEAKER_03:In terms of call to action? No,
SPEAKER_01:you usually towards
SPEAKER_03:the end of that said so. films. I think at this point he's retired, he's older, his last credit was in 2013. Okay. So, but we have Mermaids. I know that that's come up before it's a 90s film, so it's not one we're ever going to cover, but it's one with like Cher and
SPEAKER_01:Winona Ryder. It's not that horror movie we saw?
SPEAKER_03:No, that was Killer Mermaid.
SPEAKER_01:Oh, okay.
SPEAKER_03:And honestly, I might...
SPEAKER_01:I prefer to watch Killer Mermaid over mermaids. We had to get through a lot of bullshit to even get to the mermaid in that movie, too.
SPEAKER_03:Oh, and you know what? I just remembered. I think the director I was trying to think of was Douglas Sirk. Okay. He was the one that did, like, what they would call women pics. So, yeah. In any case, so he reteams with Lynn for Indecent Proposal. He does Bad Boys. So he's kind of all over the place. He does reteam for him for... Lolita. Okay. He does Deep Rising, Hanging Up, which is like very much like a comedy. He does Lassie. He does a film version of Lassie. And then the last credit that I mentioned is All Things to All Men.
SPEAKER_01:Okay.
SPEAKER_03:So. Okay. Moving on to music. Maurice Jarre is the way that I'm going to say that. And we have brought him up a couple times.
SPEAKER_01:Okay.
SPEAKER_03:So I don't know how I said it last time. I...
SPEAKER_01:Probably the same. Maybe not.
SPEAKER_03:N'Jari? How would you say it? I
SPEAKER_01:would say Maurice Chavez.
SPEAKER_03:Okay, good job. So he has a lot of really interesting high profile credits to his name. Multi Oscar nominated and winning composer. He started out with like short films. I mean, A lot of professionals do. And then now we're getting into some of his like more mainstream work, some of his early work. The Olive Trees of Justice. Okay. He gets his first best score. And like, okay, I've said this before. Sometimes these composers, they double dip in categories. Most of what I have for him are score nominations, but he does have an original song that comes up. Quite frequently. His first nomination for score was for Sundays in, I'm sure I said it wrong last time too, Sibyl A?
SPEAKER_01:I remember that coming up. I don't remember how you said it though.
SPEAKER_03:He wins, as he should have, for Lawrence of Arabia?
SPEAKER_01:Oh yeah. Okay. Okay.
SPEAKER_03:This guy is like legit. So he does Lawrence of Arabia. He follows up. This one's making me emotional because this is one of my dad's favorite movies. He wins again for Dr. Zhivago. So another beautifully scored film. Just beautiful film. Those two, look. I appreciate that people are listening to this for 80s films because they are, if I may speak on your behalf, our favorite decade of movies.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, no, I think that's right. But... That's why we picked that decade to do this for the last 15 years.
SPEAKER_03:But those are two films just... Look, you don't ever have to watch them a second time, but just watch them once.
SPEAKER_01:Lords of Arabia and Dr. Zhivago? No.
SPEAKER_03:Dr. Zhivago, yeah. Just watch him once. I think even if it's not your usual movie fare, they're really important movies, and you should experience them. They're both gorgeous films. He gets another Oscar nom. This one was for Best Original Song for The Life and Times of Judge Roy Bean. Okay. This one I just put in because it is the wackiest title. The Effect of Gamma Rays on Man in the Moon Marigolds. That was a film. Okay. So he did that. The Man Who Would Be King. He gets his best score Oscar nom for The Message. We're getting a little bit more, when I say recent, I mean like late 70s, early 80s. But he does The Last Tycoon, The Tindrum. He does Taps, which probably we will do at some point. We were just talking about that film this morning. He does Top Secret.
SPEAKER_02:Oh,
SPEAKER_03:nice. I mean, the guy who did fucking Lawrence of Arabia does Top Secret. That's amazing. I mean, come on. He gets his final Oscar win for A Passage to India, but he's not done with his nominations. He gets another Oscar nom. The rest of these, they're all scores. For Witness, he scores The Mosquito Coast. Okay. So both Harrison
SPEAKER_02:Ford films. Yes, yeah.
SPEAKER_03:He gets another nomination for Gorillas in the Mist, a very different kind of film that I saw too young.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, that would just be, in some ways, probably boring for a kid. I haven't the slightest idea. I think I was
SPEAKER_03:just like, oh, Sigourney Weaver.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:And I loved her. And I remember not knowing anything about that person's story. Yeah. Had no idea that she was murdered. And I remember being like, that's the way the movie ends? Like, it was a real downer. So... We've brought him up twice before. Do you know Without Cheating?
SPEAKER_01:Oh, no, probably not Without Cheating.
SPEAKER_03:Okay, so what's one of the films that we brought him up for? Oh,
SPEAKER_01:Prancer.
SPEAKER_03:Yes.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:So that was the season finale last year, and that was so special because I was with both Casey and Laura, two people who are our favorite people, people we love. Go check that one out. Coming upon the holidays, perfect time to check it out. He also scored, and we did this one, Dead Poets Society.
SPEAKER_01:Oh, okay. Yeah. I couldn't think of the other one, even with cheating.
SPEAKER_03:That was with Kathy. Okay. That's much earlier, probably season two. Go check that one out as well. He gets his final Oscar nomination for the score for Ghosts.
SPEAKER_01:Oh, Patrick Swayze? Mm-hmm. Okay.
SPEAKER_03:He does School Ties, and he also did A Walk in the Clouds.
SPEAKER_01:I have three additional titles that we could possibly cover.
SPEAKER_03:Okay, okay.
SPEAKER_01:One is a Clint Eastwood movie, Firefox, from 1982. You know how I feel about that.
SPEAKER_03:Oh, I... But I do know you love those films.
SPEAKER_01:I like the films. I don't, you know...
SPEAKER_03:I know, I know.
SPEAKER_01:I don't want to have a conversation...
SPEAKER_03:You're separating the man from the film.
SPEAKER_01:I don't want to talk to him in his chair or anything. Sure. Okay. With Dennis Quaid, also, you know.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Mad Max Beyond Thunderdome. Okay. And Witness, which you brought up.
SPEAKER_03:Sure.
SPEAKER_01:I don't know if we'd ever cover Witness, the... Family comedy, but... Yeah,
SPEAKER_03:exactly. I mean, it's like, let's just do double feature of, like, Witness and The Accused. Jesus. But, yeah. Both great films, but... Yeah, I would say, of the three that you've mentioned, I'm going to say Thunderdome is probably the one that we would do first.
SPEAKER_01:Dreamscape. It's got to happen. It's got to happen.
SPEAKER_03:Okay, well, we have a new season that we have
SPEAKER_01:to... Next Halloween season.
SPEAKER_03:Oh, is it horror?
SPEAKER_01:It is. It's about going into someone's dreams and there's like horrible...
SPEAKER_03:Horrible? I like
SPEAKER_01:that word.
SPEAKER_03:Horrible.
SPEAKER_01:Horrible and horrifying. Horrible things involved in the dreams in a plot to stop the assassination of the president.
SPEAKER_03:I'm not going to steamroll you with all my choices. You get to pick two. So if that's...
SPEAKER_01:What are your
SPEAKER_03:picks?
SPEAKER_01:The good news is that it's November.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah,
SPEAKER_01:I know. I'll forget like next week.
SPEAKER_03:I'll remind you. I know that I usually am like, I want to do this and I want to do this and I want to do this. And I kind of leave you with like maybe one slot. And
SPEAKER_01:four years later, we covered Dragon Slayer.
SPEAKER_03:Okay. Moving on to editing, two gentlemen. And combined, they got a Best Film Editing Oscar nomination for this film.
SPEAKER_01:Okay.
SPEAKER_03:So, yeah. First, Peter E. Berger.
SPEAKER_01:Berger time.
SPEAKER_03:This was his only Oscar nomination. So, but he has a ton. And this is not the first time we brought him up. He has a ton of huge, high-profile films under his belt. I think, I mean, he did a lot of TV movies as well, but I've listed all films for him. So, we have The Last Married Couple in America.
SPEAKER_01:Okay. Oh, God, book two. Those. Those Oh God movies. I'm kind of glad that they're... That was
SPEAKER_03:definitely
SPEAKER_01:a particular
SPEAKER_03:point in time. I mean... How many were
SPEAKER_01:there?
SPEAKER_03:Is there even anybody that could be compared to George Burns at this point who has that kind of notoriety? I don't think so. I mean, maybe Mel Brooks?
SPEAKER_01:I mean, he's not... Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:For the age?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_03:But he's not... I know he's very active, but I don't know if he's like in... A lot of, like, in front of the camera, in front of a lot of stuff. But he did, he cut Mommy Dearest. I think that one would be just kind of ridiculous and fun to cover. I think it's 80, so I think we could get it in. No more wire
SPEAKER_01:hangers? Yeah. Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:Staying alive. Here we go. We covered him for Fire with Fire.
SPEAKER_01:Oh, my God. That movie, honestly, is one of the biggest surprises in all of the years that we've done this.
SPEAKER_03:Yes.
SPEAKER_01:To hear the Lord of the Rings soundtrack. And to basically see, like, a Mission Impossible movie, like, that's what it felt like. That was just a very wild, surprising experience.
SPEAKER_03:Agreed.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:Really enjoyed it.
SPEAKER_01:And also the editing, top notch.
SPEAKER_03:Yes.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, I don't know, but that's who we're talking about. Don't think he
SPEAKER_03:was nominated for that, but he did Star Trek IV, The Voyage Home.
SPEAKER_01:Mm-hmm. Gotta save the whales.
SPEAKER_03:This one, yeah, we definitely could do, but we'll see. Less than zero.
SPEAKER_01:Nah.
SPEAKER_03:Another downer.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, we've done that.
SPEAKER_03:Oh, like downer film, you mean, just in general? We've done a couple, yeah. Star Trek V, The Final Frontier, Dead Again, Hocus Pocus. Okay. These, I think, are like, what are these? They're not like, well, Star Trek Generations, that was like a mainstream movie, right?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, that was their attempt at... Like transitioning from the Captain Kirk to the Captain Picard cast. Got it.
SPEAKER_03:He also cut Star Trek Insurrection. Okay. He did Save the Lost Dance, Clockstoppers, Coach Carter, and Elvin and the Jet Monks. Okay. All right. We're now turning to a heavy hitter in the world of editing, Michael Kahn. Okay.
UNKNOWN:Okay.
SPEAKER_03:So like I mentioned, he and Peter, they combined get a Best Film Editing Oscar nom for this particular film. He is about to turn– now, the last time we covered him, I don't know if they like changed his date of birth on IMDb. I don't think I would have been so far off because we only covered him maybe two years ago. And at the time, I had– specifically noted that he was in late 80s, but that's very wrong if the current date of birth is cracked.
SPEAKER_01:Okay.
SPEAKER_03:He's about to turn 94 because currently on IMDb his date of birth is 1930. Is
SPEAKER_01:that something they commonly change or update or get wrong?
SPEAKER_03:It's Hollywood, so sometimes maybe. But I'm like, I don't think I did the math wrong. Maybe, but that's a real, real big miss if that was the case. But Michael Kahn, this guy, I mean, this guy. So... Early in his career, he gets also multi-Oscar winning film editor on top of many more nominations. Very early, he gets his first Oscar nom for Close Encounters
SPEAKER_01:of the Third Kind. Yeah, probably one of my favorite movies ever.
SPEAKER_03:And you're White Whale when it comes to outdoor screenings.
SPEAKER_01:I've given up on that. Aw. Yeah, I've given up on it. Don't
SPEAKER_03:ever give up. Don't give up on your dreams.
SPEAKER_01:I mean, I may as well just go outside with a laptop and watch it and call
SPEAKER_03:it a day. Oh! We can do that. So this will clue you into the fact that he is like, I mean, I would say, well, okay, Spielberg, he is very loyal to his collaborators. Obviously, the most famous of them is John Williams. But Khan is right up there in terms of like, long term collaborators. I'll clue you into the rest of the films that he worked on him with. But you know, Beyond him, Janusz Kaminski, his cinematographer. Who else would there be? He's very loyal to the people. Once he finds people he likes working with, that's it. And Khan is one of those people. So he gets his first editing Oscar win for... Raiders of the Lost Ark. Nice. I've heard of that movie. Yeah, we've covered that for sure. Oh, I skipped right over 1941, but that's okay.
SPEAKER_01:If you're going to skip over one of them.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah. So go check that one out. That is one of, I would say collectively, one of our favorite films of all time. Yeah. So we, I mean, we've covered a lot of the films that he, it's just been a minute since we've talked about him, but we've covered a lot of the films that he has cut. So he did Poltergeist.
SPEAKER_01:The good one.
SPEAKER_03:Yes, the original. Definitely go check that one out. That's with one of our favorite people, Dan. He did the Goonies. That was just one of our first episodes. Maybe the second one. Yeah. So we were just getting our footing. Please keep that in mind if you decide to go check it out.
SPEAKER_01:I think it was the first one where I did the little intro with a clip. Oh. And I couldn't figure out how to do it correctly. So I just like played my phone near the microphone.
SPEAKER_03:The good old days. Yeah. He cut The Color Purple. He gets his next Oscar nomination for Empire of the Sun. He does all the indie movies. So just keep that in mind. But he does Hook, Jurassic Park. He gets his next Oscar win for, very deservedly so, Schindler's List. He does Twister. So he doesn't... work exclusively with Spielberg, although I think Spielberg was a producer on that one. But he does Amistad. He gets his next Oscar win for Saving Private Ryan, another one. I mean, my God, we've talked many times at this point about that opening sequence, that alone.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, I just... There's like a kind of a short list of really great movies that I'll just never really watch again, and that's one of them. That's
SPEAKER_03:one of them.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:He did AI, Artificial Intelligence, Minority Report. So I do pretty much have all Spielberg films.
SPEAKER_01:AI is like on a different list of movies that I have seen and I just probably won't watch again. I
SPEAKER_03:appreciate what Spielberg was trying to do, especially that early in time. Yeah, yeah. Catch Me If You Can, War of the Worlds. He has two more, currently, two more nominations under his belt. He gets the next one for Munich. He does War Horse. The other nomination was for Lincoln. And he has done, more recently, Bridge of Spies, The Post, Ready Player One, West Side Story, and The Fablemans, which that was like, what, two years ago? So he was already in his 90s when he was cutting that.
SPEAKER_01:Don't forget the BFG, which I bring up only because... It was a really funny moment when we saw John Williams at the Hollywood Bowl and he brought it up and he specifically called out how like, yeah, it didn't do that great. You know, he's
SPEAKER_03:one of the few people in the whole world who could like throw shade to Spielberg. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:He's like, but I like this song.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah. All right. We are already at the stars of this film and it's a pretty small cast that we're going to be talking about, I think, comparatively. Yeah. They focus pretty heavily on the three main leads of the film. So first of which is Michael Douglas, Dan, Daniel, Danny,
SPEAKER_01:Dan,
SPEAKER_03:Dan, Dan, Dan.
SPEAKER_01:Boy, did you mess up, Dan.
SPEAKER_03:Dan Gallagher. So as far as like real quick, like I think people know his Oscar nomination. like, acting win, and I'll go over that in a second. I don't know if people realize, I brought it up because he's come up on this show before, but I don't know if people realize that he actually has a Best Picture win because he was a producer. Oh. On, do you know what film it was for? I
SPEAKER_01:don't.
SPEAKER_03:70s film.
SPEAKER_01:70s film.
SPEAKER_03:Best Picture.
SPEAKER_01:I don't.
SPEAKER_03:What if my clue was Christopher Lloyd's first... I believe his first on-screen appearance. And I think Danny
SPEAKER_01:DeVito's in it, too. Cuckoo's Nest?
SPEAKER_03:That's it. Is it? Okay. One flew over the Cuckoo's Nest. Okay. So, yeah. Interesting, huh?
SPEAKER_01:All I can remember was Cuckoo's Nest. I'm like. Cuckoo's
SPEAKER_03:Nest.
SPEAKER_01:One flies over, one flew over. One flew over. They've already flown. Past tense.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah. So among his credits, I mean, obviously a hugely well-known actor comes from an acting family. His father, Kirk Douglas, a.k.a. Kurt Russell.
SPEAKER_01:A.k.a. the star of Bone Tomahawk. FYI, never watch Bone Tomahawk.
SPEAKER_03:Inside joke. So, among some of his early credits, I just thought this was interesting. So, he was in a TV movie called When Michael Calls. But his character's name is Craig. Makes sense. Like, I just think it's kind of funny.
SPEAKER_02:I don't
SPEAKER_03:know. So, before he, I think, really became... I think he... Kind of hit his stride a little bit later than a lot of mainstream actors. And earlier in his career, he was on a television show for a while. It was called The Streets of San Francisco.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, it reminds me– I've never really watched it, but it just makes me think of Steve Martin's character from– Oh,
SPEAKER_03:sure. Brazos? Yeah, Brazos. Yeah, that's great. I wonder if there's any– Tip of the hat to that. 98 episodes. And now we're going to get into all of his film work, which comprises most of the, like, majority of his career thus far. So The China Syndrome, of course, he is the male lead in Romancing the Stone, which we covered with Krishna. So please go check that one out. He also comes back for its sequel, Jewel of the Nile. More recently... I think, what, last fall, we talked about him for A Chorus Line, which we did with Andy. That was another fantastic episode, so please check that one out.
SPEAKER_01:Just because you said it, now I have that song in my head again. Oh,
SPEAKER_03:I'm sorry.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. It'll leave in a couple weeks.
SPEAKER_03:So, I mentioned, he is an Oscar-winning actor for specifically acting work, and that was for Wall Street, which... We could cover at some point. Yeah. What a weird name. We could do it. And then he comes back for that much, much later, though. Like what? There was maybe like a 20, 25 year gap, maybe even more for Wall Street. Money never sleeps. So he did that.
SPEAKER_01:It never wakes either. He
SPEAKER_03:for a period of time had like a really kind of fun, you know, like he and Kathleen Turner had so much chemistry that. In the Romancing the Stone and Jewel of the Nile films.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. They
SPEAKER_03:come back again for The War of
SPEAKER_01:the Roses. Very different movie.
SPEAKER_03:Very different movie.
SPEAKER_01:I can't stress this. Because Danny DeVito's in it as well. And
SPEAKER_03:he also comes in. I think, yeah, DeVito, he directed it too.
SPEAKER_01:It's like, hey, everyone had a good time with these movies. Why don't we ruin it?
SPEAKER_03:Yeah. So he comes kind of out of this phase of his career into... more serious and more of these like kind of sexual thrillers that we've been talking about so like obviously today we're talking about Fatal Attraction but maybe even more famously he does Basic Instinct
SPEAKER_01:yeah
SPEAKER_03:with Sharon Stone
SPEAKER_01:isn't there like a parody called Fatal Instinct
SPEAKER_03:I don't know if it's a parody I think wait there's there's Fatal yeah yeah we've it's come up with somebody somebody that we've covered because I know I've talked about that I don't know if it's a parody
SPEAKER_01:Basic Attraction Fatal Instinct
SPEAKER_03:Basic Attraction But I think it was just a play on the fact that those films were so popular at that point in time. I don't know for sure, but he does Falling Down. He does another very much of the genre, Disclosure, that one with Demi Moore. And then he really takes a swing away. He does The American President. He does The Game, which is a good film. I remember seeing that was with Sean Penn.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, that's... Like an awesome movie. I love the game, yeah.
SPEAKER_03:He does Wonder Boys. I feel like Wonder Boys was kind of the turning point in him being a, like, air quotes, older actor. Because he's kind of this, like, older, I think, want to say professor? I
SPEAKER_01:feel like the game and A Perfect Murder could, like, be in the same universe.
SPEAKER_03:Okay. He does Traffic, and then... He definitely takes a swing away from his normal fare. I believe he is Liberace, right? I think so, yeah. Candelabra. And he gets his money, as if he needed more probably. But he gets his money because he joins the MCU. So he's been in Ant-Man, Ant-Man and the Wasp, Avengers Endgame, Ant-Man and the Wasp, Quantumania. He's done all those. He's...
SPEAKER_01:Kind of the original Ant-Man based off of like he's one who. The lore. Yeah. But I don't know. I haven't read. Like, yeah, like I read the Ant-Man comics. Come on.
SPEAKER_03:Come
SPEAKER_01:on. Come on.
SPEAKER_03:More recently, he has come back to television. So he does the Kaminsky method. And then he was Ben Franklin in a TV miniseries called Franklin.
SPEAKER_01:I would give that a shot because I feel like he would be a good Ben Franklin.
SPEAKER_03:I'd be really interested to see him in a historical movie.
SPEAKER_01:He'd be like a way better Ben Franklin than the guy that played Ben Franklin in that episode of The Office.
SPEAKER_03:Oh, yeah. I know who you're talking about. Okay. So moving on to Glenn Close. She plays Alex Forrest. So she is the woman with whom Dan has an affair.
SPEAKER_01:She's very discreet. She says that at least. I question that.
SPEAKER_03:So she gets Best Actress Oscar nom. And we talked about this off screen. Mike, what record does she hold? Does she share?
SPEAKER_01:Most nominations without actually getting the award?
SPEAKER_03:Correct.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. I guessed like 75. In
SPEAKER_03:terms of acting categories.
SPEAKER_01:And it's eight.
SPEAKER_03:I'm pretty sure there are other categories where people have been nominated even more that haven't won. But she shares this... I don't know. I don't want to say dubious because she's a really great actor. It's not... Look, it's fine if you don't win an Oscar. I know everybody wants to win an Oscar. It doesn't mean that you're not a great actor if you don't, though. And she shares it with Peter O'Toole. Okay. So they both have had eight nominations. O'Toole is no longer with us. But she... And it kind of splits down the middle. So four of those nominations are for Best Supporting. Four of those nominations are for Lead Actress. She... I think this was the first of the lead actress nominations that she got. But very early, I mean, she had a wild 80s in terms of all of her nominations. It's kind of insane. We could cover all these films. Yeah. So she gets her first Best Supporting Nom for The World According to Garp. She follows that up with a Best Supporting for The Big Chill.
SPEAKER_01:The Big
SPEAKER_03:Shill. The Big Shill. She follows that up with another Best Supporting for The Natural. She does Jagged Edge, so little pause there in her nominations.
SPEAKER_01:The key art for Jagged Edge looks very much like the key art for Fatal Attraction, by the way.
SPEAKER_03:Oh, does it?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:Oh.
SPEAKER_01:Like different color scheme, but like the image getting kind of like ripped down the middle.
SPEAKER_03:Oh, okay. She gets her next Best Actress nomination for Dangerous Liaisons. And then she does– she has a really busy 90s. She does Hamlet, Hook– the paper, Mars Attacks. She is Cruella de Vil in 101 Dalmatians, and she comes back for 102 Dalmatians. Why not? She is, I think, the vice president in Air Force One.
SPEAKER_01:That is exactly correct,
SPEAKER_03:yes. She does that. Now she comes back to getting some Oscar noms. She gets her next Best Actress nomination for Albert Nobbs. She also gets that MCU money. She's in Guardians of the Galaxy.
SPEAKER_01:She is Nova Prime.
SPEAKER_03:There you go. I don't know what
SPEAKER_01:that means.
SPEAKER_03:She gets another Best Actress Oscar nom for The Wife. And then most recently, she got a Best Supporting Actress nomination for Hillbilly Elegy. Okay. And then lastly on the list, she was in The Deliverance. So not Deliverance, The
SPEAKER_01:Deliverance. I cannot stress how different those two films would probably be.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah. So next on our list is Ann Archer. So she is Beth Gallagher, Dan's wife. And I do really like her in this film. Yeah. I'll burn through all these people and then we'll get to the story and thoughts on the characters. I think that initially she had a really natural... understandable response to when Dan told her that he was having an affair where obviously she's upset and she's like, you know, how could you do this? Get out of the house. Like presumably though they reconcile. I feel
SPEAKER_01:like, and yeah, we can talk more about it, but it feels like they use the car accident that she was in as like this moment where it's like, Oh, now we, it reminded us of what's really important. Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Kind of thing.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah. Right? Yeah, I would agree with you. She began her career with a lot of TV work, a lot of like one-offs, two-offs on different shows. She had more extended stints on the TV show Bob and Carol and Ted and Alice. I think she was Carol in that. She was also on the TV series Falcon Crest. Oh, okay. Yeah. So then she– Moves heavily into... She has done a lot of TV movies as well, but she moves heavily into film. So she's... I hate saying it this way, but she's the Jack Ryan wife, I believe, in Patriot Games.
SPEAKER_02:Yes. As
SPEAKER_03:well as Clear and Present Danger. Okay. She's also in... This was like one of the more... I mean, look, there's a certain way of thinking about all those sexual thrillers from that era, but... Body of Evidence, the one with Willem Dafoe and Madonna, is kind of at the bottom of the list. And that's kind of saying something. But she's in that. She's in Shortcuts, Rules of Engagement. Oh, isn't that another? No. It feels like another Jack
SPEAKER_01:Ryan movie. Sounds like it would. Yeah. I don't think. I don't know.
SPEAKER_03:Man of the House and Trafficked. And still working. They're all still working. All three leads. Okay. Let's talk about working. Okay. I think this next guy, he has more credits than any of the other guys so far. Stuart Pankin is his name. Sure. So far, over 160 acting credits and counting. Very busy guy. And so he's Dan's buddy. He's like his lawyer friend. He's kind of the comic relief. He's kind of a doofus.
SPEAKER_01:He very much is all of those things. Yeah. He's
SPEAKER_03:the one that actually spies Alex first. Yeah. He's
SPEAKER_01:like shot down, I guess, with like a look or something. Yeah, it was very weird. They really like played that up. It felt like. It was a
SPEAKER_03:very contrived kind of like, oh, well, he's like lame. I'm not going to be interested in him. I'm like, he just looked at you.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:And she was, you know, the whole like, I'm better than. She didn't say that. But like that was kind of the attitude of like, oh, I would never even consider. Turns
SPEAKER_01:out that guy dodged a bullet.
SPEAKER_03:Sure
SPEAKER_01:did.
UNKNOWN:Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:So that's who this guy is in the film. And I have a little bit of a mix of film and television for him. So he was in Hollywood Nights, K-N-I-G-H-T-S, which is I think Michelle Pfeiffer's first film credit. An Eye for an Eye, Irreconcilable Differences. I love this. He's in a film that's called That's Adequate. He plays Sigmund Freud. I feel like that's the perfect title for a film that has Sigmund Freud in it.
SPEAKER_01:That's amazing.
SPEAKER_03:He also was on Falcon Crest. Wow. For, yeah, a while. Arachnophobia. TV show, not necessarily the news. Oh,
SPEAKER_01:yeah. I remember that.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah. Yeah. The sequel, Mannequin, colon,
SPEAKER_01:on the move. Get it? Because it's a mannequin.
SPEAKER_03:Get
SPEAKER_01:it?
SPEAKER_03:This one's fun. He wasn't in Silence of the Lambs, but he was in the Silence of the Hams. He did voice work on the TV series Dinosaurs. Oh, okay. Yeah, so he did that. Congo, Striptease.
SPEAKER_01:Congo was a pretty solid book. It didn't adapt well to film, but it was a good book.
SPEAKER_03:And then our almost completely true story. Which I just thought was a fun
SPEAKER_01:title. Oh, that was the title. I thought I was waiting for the title.
SPEAKER_03:That was it. Okay. So these last two people, honestly, like, okay, so what's the character's name? Jimmy. Jimmy was Stuart Pinkins. That was the buddy.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:He is like a far fourth in terms of like people who are covered in the film.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. He's there at the beginning. He is important a little bit later on. In the movie.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:But he's not there all the time.
SPEAKER_03:The only reason I even say that is because these next few people are barely in it. But I was like, well, I'm going to try to do more than four cast members. The next person is Hilde. So that's presumably Jimmy's wife. She, I think, shows up. I don't know if she got scenes cut or what. Because I feel like these last few people. I think. Maybe they both got scenes cut.
SPEAKER_01:Because she's really just in the dinner party. Yeah,
SPEAKER_03:they were both really underutilized. So Ellen Foley and I don't remember who she was in Tootsie, but I just have like a couple credits for her. Tootsie, the reason in part why I only have a couple credits for her is actually she's a very well-known singer. That's like really where her career has largely lived.
SPEAKER_01:I honestly remember her most from Night Court.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, that was my next credit. She's on Night Court. She was in Cocktail. Okay. I think, I think, maybe, she was the older woman that Tom Cruise briefly was
SPEAKER_01:hooking up with. Oh, okay. I
SPEAKER_03:think that was her.
SPEAKER_01:When he broke Elizabeth Shue's heart? Yeah. Okay. I
SPEAKER_03:think. She was in Married to the Mob, and then this has come up before. She might be done with acting work, because this is from 2016, but her last credit as of now is No Pay... Comma nudity. Okay. All right. Yeah. So finally, this guy definitely was underutilized in this film. Fred Gwynn is in Fatal Attraction. Briefly. I think they're like walking in a stairwell and that's the only time we see him.
SPEAKER_01:Like he must have been like a more senior partner or like someone important at the firm or at his place of business talking to him about some...
SPEAKER_03:They definitely could have used him way more. He's great.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. It was a weird like... Quick cameo, but...
SPEAKER_03:Very odd. That sounded like, did he have more scenes that just went away? I don't know. So a very well-known actor... He was great. He was very, very memorable for both film and television. So much early TV work. His two big series. So even before, like the one I'm going to bring up in just a second is probably the one that our generation might know him from, like in reruns. But preceding, he was first in Car 54, Where Are You? Yep. So he did 60 episodes of that. And then right on the tail of that, because like, when did that end? Like 63 or 64? And then the very next year, the Munsters began. He
SPEAKER_01:must have had a twin or something because I see him credited as Herman Munster, which everyone knows, and then Charlie Munster.
SPEAKER_03:Oh, that's interesting.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah. So he did 72 episodes of that. And that's what I think a lot of people know him from. I
SPEAKER_01:mean, there's only one other thing I think of him from.
SPEAKER_03:I'll get to that in a second. Okay. Yeah. So the rest that I had, he did do a lot of TV movies. He's no longer with us. He's been passed for a while. But he did The Cotton Club, The Secret of My Success, Ironweed. Some people might know him very well from Pet Sematary. Oh, that's a good point. The original one. And then what's the film? My
SPEAKER_01:Cousin Vinny. There you go. These two youths.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah. So he had a lot of range. He did very serious work and he did really over-the-top comedic work. Yeah. And he did it all really well.
SPEAKER_01:And he got to do it for about 15 seconds in Fatal Attraction.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, weird. Film synopsis.
SPEAKER_01:What do we got? A
SPEAKER_03:married man's one-night stand comes back to haunt him when that lover begins to stalk him and his family. Sure. Yes. Yes. That is all true. However, they fail to mention that she gets pregnant with his child. And I think– I do think you're supposed to believe that that is legitimate.
SPEAKER_01:I think so, yeah.
SPEAKER_03:Because he even called the doctor and the doctor was like, congrats.
SPEAKER_01:Yes, exactly.
SPEAKER_03:So she is pregnant. Yeah. How much time has passed? So I think I was mistaken. I thought she told him much earlier in the film and I was– I was on the cusp of saying, like, oh, that's, like, not realistic, especially for back then. Like, nowadays, I think pregnancy tests can tell you very quickly, like, very early on into a pregnancy if you are pregnant. I don't know if she would have known so soon, but I do think at the time that she told him, a couple months have passed. Minimum a month, I would say. But, yeah, I mean, look, this brings us to the crux of, like, where we diverge in terms of...
SPEAKER_01:I mean, after seeing it, I don't know how much we diverge, really. I think like he certainly goes through some shit in the movie. But then at the end of the movie, when like I guess the car crash has suddenly like turned his wife back around to being more accepting and they have that like corny, sappy music at the end when it like close does a close up of the family photo. Yeah. Yeah, I don't like it's just speculation to think that like, well, OK, Alex is dead, but you should probably get divorced.
SPEAKER_03:You should probably just go your separate ways. Yeah. Like there's so much baggage there now.
SPEAKER_01:Because not only did you have an affair while we were like trying to find a new home.
SPEAKER_03:Part of this relationship now is the killing of another person. Yeah. Yeah. Regardless of how, like, look, I'm not necessarily defending Alex in any way. Yeah. Like, she does a lot of unhinged stuff. It is not okay that she kidnapped their daughter. It is not okay that she killed their rabbit. Like, none of those things are okay.
SPEAKER_01:Not only are they not okay, none of them are justifiable in any way by what Michael Douglas did.
SPEAKER_03:No, no, not at all. So, I'm not, that is not what I am trying to argue. I think... My frustration lies with, like, the point of view of the film that, like, you know... The happy ending. Yeah, that and also to, like, use, like, a really crass phrase.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:You know, sticking your dick in crazy. He sure did. Like, oh, oh, shit. This guy just, like, he just, like, screwed around with the wrong woman. And it's like, no, he shouldn't have ever done it from the get-go. Absolutely. Regardless of how she acted. And... I, you know, they try really hard to make him a sympathetic character. Like, presumably he is a good and present father. Yeah. He's really good to the dog.
SPEAKER_01:They're trying to, like, create this story that, like— oh, he's just this guy that made a mistake.
SPEAKER_03:Yes, yes, exactly. And it's really weird to me. Like, it's really weird that he, you know, because like I hadn't seen this film in a really long time. And so when we were watching it, I couldn't remember if at any point they had talked about him having cheated before.
SPEAKER_01:He was really not good at it. So like, I don't, I feel like that was the first time I think I agree
SPEAKER_03:with
SPEAKER_01:you on that. Yeah. Because he seemed pretty clueless.
SPEAKER_03:I think I agree with you on that. It just seems so strange that like... It
SPEAKER_01:happened so easy for him. Yes,
SPEAKER_03:yes, exactly. I think that's what was really weird to me is that there seemed to be little to none... You know, when you have like the little angel and devil on your shoulder, like he didn't have any hesitation seemingly
SPEAKER_01:to do this. It all happened like from that dinner where he first sees and encounters her to... Like, the work encounter. That was kind of it. Yes. There was no
SPEAKER_03:kind of building to, like... And I don't know if, like... Like, whatever. Like, I'm sure it happens to people. But, like, the whole, like, instant attraction where, like, you're just, like, I have to. I don't know if I really got that from them. They're good actors, but I don't know if I really bought this, like, instant chemistry between them. I don't know. It seemed like
SPEAKER_01:he had that attraction to her, and she was kind of encouraging him in the sense of, like, your wife's gone. Yeah. Are you like, you're an attorney. So like you're discreet or you know how to be discreet. I'm discreet. And you know,
SPEAKER_03:it's almost like this is such a weird comparison, but okay. Try to stay with me here in the movie. 200 cigarettes. Okay. When Courtney love and Paul Rudd. So they're like friends. Yeah. And they're in the bathroom stall. Oh yeah. And she goes, I dare you to fuck me. Yeah. It was almost kind of like that.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:Where Glenn Close is like kind of daring him.
SPEAKER_01:Yes.
SPEAKER_03:To let's do this.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:And that's not great either. I'm not I'm not like defending that. But like ultimately in this also the whole like, well, he has more to be blamed for because he was the one that was married. I don't really buy into that. Both parties are equally at blame. Like, even though you may not be married, it is not okay to have an affair with a married person. Yeah. Like, it is not okay. You're not absolved of guilt just because you aren't in a relationship.
SPEAKER_01:But from his wife's perspective, it's like, well, I don't really care what she did or didn't do. You did this. Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:From her perspective, yes. That makes all the sense.
SPEAKER_01:Just getting to, like, to the ending. Yeah. Like, the fact that they seemingly reconciled or had happy music playing over a close-up of their family photo, that seemed– that did seem weird. But I still think, like, yeah, he, like, went through some shit during the movie. Should that shit have involved a divorce at the end? Probably.
SPEAKER_03:He could have– okay, there's so many– I think– The thing with him is that, like, there were so many points along this journey where it didn't have to go this way. Like, first of all, there's just not having the affair. But, okay, then we don't have a movie.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:I mean, there's a lot
SPEAKER_01:of points where we just wouldn't have a movie. I think she was just crazy. Like, I don't know what he could have done. Like, if he had fessed up and told his wife what had happened earlier, I don't know if that would have necessarily changed Alex, that character's, like, decision. He
SPEAKER_03:definitely should have fessed up earlier. I think that, like... Even even when he got that that very first phone call from her.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. Where. Oh, in the middle of the night. Right. Like when they were in bed or was that still.
SPEAKER_03:No, much earlier. So like they sleep together. Yeah. He leaves the next day. Oh, you're right. Yeah. And she calls him. He's like, no, I got a lot of work to do. And she's like, well, just come over here and work. I'll be a good girl. Even at that point. shut it down yeah you know and I think he was flattered he says to her you just don't give up he was flattered yeah that she was like going after him so hard
SPEAKER_01:well she kind of in a certain point I think in that that scene that uh was the clip to start this episode she talks about how like she's not just some slut that he can like I
SPEAKER_03:appreciated that she said that I
SPEAKER_01:I get it but It certainly seemed from the outset that she was as interested in just having like a quick fling with him as anything else.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, I mean, I think that's a good...
SPEAKER_01:The pregnancy changes a lot of that. It
SPEAKER_03:does change a lot. I mean, I don't know where I stand in terms of like where they turn her character. Because
SPEAKER_01:he didn't push her into doing any of this.
SPEAKER_03:No, I think that though they... I think they do a disservice to her character in terms of like... They present her as this very confident, self-assured, independent woman. Yeah. And then all of a sudden they sleep together. And I think that that's a real, if I may, a real disservice to like all women. That's like such a trope where it's like as soon as a woman sleeps with a guy, she's like head over heels in love with him and can't let him go. Stage
SPEAKER_01:13
SPEAKER_03:clinger. Yes. And that is exactly how they portray her. She literally cuts her wrist when he's like, I'm going home. That's the whole plot of the movie. It is such, such a... Extreme swing.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:From the way that they set up her character.
SPEAKER_01:The alternate title was going to be Dan and his magic dick.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, exactly. So I'm not sure if it sits great with me, the way that they develop her character, because to me it seems really sudden that she all of a sudden goes to this place with how she is.
SPEAKER_01:Before she even knew that she was
SPEAKER_03:pregnant. Before she even knew that she was pregnant.
SPEAKER_01:But then once she knew, it was like, well...
SPEAKER_03:And that then brings me to, like, the next thing where he could have done differently. Like, it's kind of a funny intro clip that you picked because it, like– I love it and I hate it because while on the one hand, he's like, if you want to keep the baby, that's your choice. I'm like, yes, that is her choice. And then he says, I had nothing to do with it. But then he says, I have nothing. It's like in the span of 10 seconds, he says something that I'm like, yes. And then something where I'm like, no.
SPEAKER_01:You had a lot to do with it, man.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, you had a lot to do with it. And like, did they bring it up or did you just say it when we were- watching it, we were like, did they not use a condom? He had an affair and he didn't use a condom. Yeah, no.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. Like what?
SPEAKER_03:Yeah. So it's that's the next step where I'm like, look, she's pregnant. It's interesting that like he immediately goes to like, hey, I'll help you pay for the abortion, which in a in a way I appreciate that he is. He's like, yeah, he doesn't ghost her if he did actually think that that was going to be immediately the choice she wanted to make. Yeah. You know, so I appreciate that.
SPEAKER_01:I've never seen a single movie or TV show before. Yeah. And I get it that all
SPEAKER_03:these things needed to happen for there to be a movie. Yeah. I just think that there could have been... Tweaks.
SPEAKER_01:Can you imagine this movie if she was like, can you be discreet? And he's like, ma'am, I am not interested. I'm married.
SPEAKER_03:I know. I know. I just, I think that like, I understand that there needed to be a story. There needed to be conflict. I think that it just bumps me that they, they definitely are portraying him in the sympathetic light. And she's just this like crazy bitch who like can't be reasoned with where maybe, maybe. Yeah. it could have had a different outcome if he had also made different choices along the way. In the way that he interacted with
SPEAKER_01:her. Maybe we should watch the, maybe they corrected all these issues in the series, but probably not.
SPEAKER_03:Maybe, I don't know. Yeah, I have no clue how the miniseries
SPEAKER_01:goes. Here's how little I know about it. I don't even know where to watch it. I don't even know what it's on. Yeah, I don't know.
SPEAKER_03:I think so, because I've been watching a lot of Hulu lately. Fucking Juby? Who knows? I don't know. Pluto?
UNKNOWN:Pluto?
SPEAKER_03:And, like, again, like, at the end, it does make me feel bad because it's clear that, like, she just wants what she is seeing. Like, she literally stares through their window and sees, like, the happy family. Yes. So, which one thing I want to say that's, like, not related to their storyline at all. I didn't bring her up. But can we just talk about the daughter for a second? Ellen? She was great. She was great.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:I think my favorite parts of this entire film were with her. There
SPEAKER_01:were, yeah, no. I mean, it was heartbreaking when that goddamn rabbit
SPEAKER_03:died. Yes. And she was so natural. I was reading about the casting process for that specific character. And I think I read that they like, you know, went through, I don't know, this could be hyperbolic, but they went through like thousands of kids. And even though she didn't necessarily, and this I appreciated so much, she didn't necessarily have, quote, the look that they thought they were going to have for a little girl. She has short hair and she's not like in pigtails and dresses all the time. But they picked her because she was just such a great natural actor.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, she could act.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah. And I always am so fascinated, like the scene where he's playing cards with her. I'm always so, so interested in how somebody like a Michael Douglas is acting off of this little, little kid. And I thought But she's totally fucking holding her own with anybody she's in the scene with. Absolutely. She was so good. She has since veered out of acting, I read. But I just wanted to say she's great.
SPEAKER_01:She was also in National Lampoon's Christmas Vacation. Yes, that's
SPEAKER_03:her other big role. Yeah, she's Cousin Eddie's kid. Yep. But I thought she was fantastic. The one thing that I want to bring up, just because it was so, like, something that I clocked so early, that opening scene... With them, first of
SPEAKER_01:all, they're all just walking around in their underwear. They're all in tops, like shirts of some kind, and then undies. Yes.
SPEAKER_03:When he got up from the... He's presumably sitting there doing work, and then all of a sudden he gets up, and he's just in his tighty-whities.
SPEAKER_01:That's just normal. My dad did that all the time. No, he didn't. He
SPEAKER_03:didn't. I don't want to shame other families for what their comfort level is inside their own homes, but that felt really weird to me. That was not... Ever, ever, ever something that was in my household?
SPEAKER_01:I mean, I don't know if it was intentional. If so, it seemed like a bit like in your face with like, oh, everyone's wearing white. Look at this. Like they
SPEAKER_03:were. All wearing white.
SPEAKER_01:Pure wholesome family. There's like white everywhere. And then at the end, he's like wearing a black turtleneck like Steve Jobs. And it's like, now we know that he's corrupted.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah. Like it was a really interesting. I'm not sure how successful it was, although it felt like a little too on the nose. But literally every single one of them is wearing white in that opening scene.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. You know what I'll say?
SPEAKER_03:But also Alex has a lot of white outfits. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, I mean, Alex did nothing wrong at any point of this entire movie.
SPEAKER_03:I think it's just a commentary.
SPEAKER_01:Wait, no, Alex, I was thinking of his wife. Alex did a lot of things wrong.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, yeah. I think it's just a commentary, but I'm still not sure I have successfully sussed out what the angle is. But it's supposed to be, I think, a commentary on innocence and being, you know, whatever. Sure, yeah. But yeah, I thought that was really interesting, A, that they were all wearing white, and B, that both parents were just walking around in their underwear, but whatever.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, well, they were also getting ready, so it was partly because they were in between
SPEAKER_03:getting
SPEAKER_01:their dress clothes for the thing. True, true. That kind of makes it work, I guess. I
SPEAKER_03:guess so, yeah. But yeah, that little girl, and Ellen is her name.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:So the character name and the actress name, both Ellen.
SPEAKER_01:Ellen Latson. Yeah. Yeah. The one thing that I was going to bring up that definitely cuts against Michael Douglas being a sympathetic character, I would say, is sneaking into Alex's– and I got Alex and Beth's name mixed up. That's okay. I got
SPEAKER_04:you.
SPEAKER_01:But he sneaks in there to fucking kill her. Yeah. Like he just couldn't do it at the end. But yeah. Yeah. Which
SPEAKER_03:is why, like, she didn't have every right to pick up that knife and go after him after he almost choked her out.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, I think if you're going to escalate it that way with someone who you know is already crazy. Better
SPEAKER_03:fucking finish the job. Yeah, you
SPEAKER_01:fucking made Beth do the dirty work for you.
SPEAKER_03:Yes, he did. Yeah, he was kind of a coward in
SPEAKER_01:a way. Like, I'm assuming that that will never come up either, that he will just get away with the attempted murder. Yes,
SPEAKER_03:yes.
SPEAKER_01:Because the only witness to it was actually murdered. Yes, yes. By his wife.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah. Yeah. So it's...
SPEAKER_01:Good on you, Michael Douglas, Dan Gallagher. I
SPEAKER_03:think that's also like, okay, so to get away from maybe just how I feel specifically about Dan and or Alex, it is an interesting commentary too on like nowadays, whether it is a woman or a man who is... fixating on another person in an unhealthy way and stalking them and crossing boundaries. Yeah. Like I do think that maybe the one thing that rang the most true was the lack of recourse back then, you know, in terms of like he did call the cops a couple times and they were kind of like, well, we could bring her in for questioning. You know, like they were very kind of like there's not really much we can do about it. Yeah. And I think that that's like still an issue today. Yeah. I think maybe there are a couple more safeguards in place, but I still think that that is a huge problem, especially with social media. It's so easy to be put in a position where somebody is spending an unhealthy amount of time and attention on you. I
SPEAKER_01:think that is– yeah, I think it was then and still is a real thing, but it's also a very convenient plot point in a movie because if you went to the cops and they're like– No problem. We got this. Right. Credits. Right.
SPEAKER_03:I mean, even if I may say nothing was ever said to me that like indicated violence of any kind. But like back when I was in school, still to this day, don't know who this person was, but somebody in my neighborhood knew where I lived. And I told you this. I, for a period of a couple months, was getting notes on my car. And they were all like air quotes, complimentary saying how they've like seen me and they like want to get to know me better.
SPEAKER_01:That's pretty creepy.
SPEAKER_03:And I did call the cops and they said the same thing. They're like, unless somebody is threatening you with violence, we really can't do anything about it.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:And so the way that it happened. I guess in its way got resolved is like I told my girlfriends about it. And so one night we basically had a sleepover at my apartment. And, you know, I lived in Chicago. And so like all the time you'd get like flyers on your car for like parties or clubs or whatever, you
SPEAKER_01:know. So you waited until they showed up and you all ran out and killed them? No. Oh.
SPEAKER_03:But what happened was we set up a camera. It was basically a sting operation. We wanted to just get this guy on camera so that I could have a visual of this person. Yeah. And cause I had no idea who this person was in my neighborhood. I had no clue who they were. And it was really, really scaring me that like this person knew where I lived, knew my car and kept leaving me these notes. And so we used a flyer that, cause like this person said to me, like, please respond to me.
SPEAKER_01:Like they asked, they asked for me. So response on the car. Yes. And
SPEAKER_03:so like basically, um, nothing was written, but I folded it up to look like a note had been left when really it was just a flyer. And-
SPEAKER_01:You definitely should have said something like, look up.
SPEAKER_03:Well, what ended up happening is we stayed up till like, what, two in the morning or something and nothing ever happened. And so like, except for my roommate and I, everybody else went home and we went to bed, but she kept the camera going. Yeah. And then all of a sudden I hear, Anna, Anna, Anna, wake up, wake up, wake up. And so- We had caught him on camera. It was like 4.30 in the morning. Okay. And you just see briefly this guy come into frame, grab the note off my car, and walk away. It was so brief, though, and it was still dark out that I still didn't have a great visual of him. And he left another note saying, like, am I confused? Were you meaning to communicate with me? And all that happened is that, like, I was outside reading the note, and I just ripped it up. like in a really dramatic fashion. My
SPEAKER_01:roommate was watching. Yes. Yeah. Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:And I never heard from him again.
SPEAKER_01:Hello and welcome to 80s movie montage.
SPEAKER_03:All I'm saying is that this is a lot more common than people think. And, and it's not, it's not okay. It's very scary when you are getting attention you don't want. Okay. So Oh, in any case, call to action.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:I don't know. I guess I'm just curious if like I'm not I'm not here to like have people choose sides, but I'm just curious what people think. Like, were they being too negative? Like, were they were they painting Dan in a in a positive light that he didn't deserve? Or do you feel like the blame was equally, you know? dispensed or, you know, like how do people feel about the way that each of the two characters were portrayed? I'm just generally curious.
SPEAKER_01:That's a good one. I mean, it's tough to top that one. I was just going to ask about, you know, the last time you moved, how long did it take you to get everything done? properly set up.
SPEAKER_03:Because if we're any indication, yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, they did it so
SPEAKER_03:fast. So fast. Amazing. That new place looks so lived in, like within two days.
SPEAKER_01:Very lived
SPEAKER_03:in. That is not how that usually works out, especially that it was a big place. Yeah. Yeah, no, it was.
SPEAKER_01:Great place.
SPEAKER_03:So great place. Yeah, it was really pretty. If you'd like to get in touch with us, we'd love to hear from you. You can reach out through Facebook, Twitter, or Instagram. It is the same handle for all three. It is at 80s Montage Pod, and 80s is 80S. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Sneak peek. You're not even going to ask me if I'm going to watch it again?
SPEAKER_03:Oh, I'm sorry. Derek?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah?
SPEAKER_03:Are you going to watch this movie again? No, probably not. Ever? I'm trying to think of where there'd be a circumstance where we're like, let's throw on Fatal Attraction.
SPEAKER_01:Maybe it just becomes our Thanksgiving tradition.
SPEAKER_03:Oh, I hope not. I hope not. I don't want that to be our Thanksgiving tradition.
SPEAKER_01:November 1st, Fatal
SPEAKER_03:Attraction. Here's where I could see, like, okay, so not the same kind of movie, but in a way kind of the same movie, Presumed Innocent. Oh,
SPEAKER_02:yeah.
SPEAKER_03:Not a film that on my own would I have ever said, hey, Derek. Let's watch Presumed Innocent. However, it was very enjoyable to watch it with our friends who came over. I think that that is the better movie,
SPEAKER_01:honestly.
SPEAKER_03:It is. And I would say, but all to say, I think if we were ever going to watch this movie again, I think it would be a really interesting movie to kind of go back and forth with commentary-wise with friends. Sure. So, okay.
SPEAKER_01:All right.
SPEAKER_03:Sneak peek. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, wait. I'm asking you.
UNKNOWN:Okay.
SPEAKER_03:So maybe of any film that we've talked about doing, this one comes up every year. Really? At this time of year. Really? And we, for whatever reason, it never comes around. And this is probably the one that you specifically have been the most vocal about in terms of saying this movie would never happen today.
SPEAKER_01:Okay, yeah. No, when you said that part, that cemented it in my mind. It is definitely planes, trains, and automobiles.
SPEAKER_03:It is! Yeah. Because this is the month of Thanksgiving. This
SPEAKER_01:whole movie would be solved with an app called Uber or Lyft.
SPEAKER_03:So this will be an interesting one because I feel like the last couple, I don't know, as we move farther away in time from when this film was made, to your point, it feels like kind of frustrating to watch it.
SPEAKER_01:It is. It is an extremely frustrating movie to watch. And then it gets... extremely difficult to watch with what John Candy's character has gone through. It's watchable
SPEAKER_03:because of how much we love John Candy and how much we love Steve Martin. Exactly.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:And Kevin Bacon. Sure. For the two seconds he's in it. But yes, Planes, Trains, and Automobiles, that one is coming up next. And in the meantime, thank you to everyone for taking the time to... Listen to this podcast with all the very many choices you have out there. And we appreciate it. We do. We do. Yeah. And we will talk to you again in two weeks' time.