'80s Movie Montage

Annie

• Anna Keizer & Derek Dehanke • Season 6 • Episode 2

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In this episode, Anna and Derek chat about extraordinary child performances, Daddy Warbucks being more of a pushover than remembered, and much more during their discussion of the unappreciated (?) musical Annie (1982).

Connect with '80s Movie Montage on Facebook, Twitter/X or Instagram! It's the same handle for all three... @80smontagepod.

Anna Keizer and Derek Dehanke are the co-hosts of ‘80s Movie Montage. The idea for the podcast came when they realized just how much they talk – a lot – when watching films from their favorite cinematic era. Their wedding theme was “a light nod to the ‘80s,” so there’s that, too. Both hail from the Midwest but have called Los Angeles home for several years now. Anna is a writer who received her B.A. in Film/Video from Columbia College Chicago and M.A. in Film Studies from Chapman University. Her dark comedy short She Had It Coming was an Official Selection of 25 film festivals with several awards won for it among them. Derek is an attorney who also likes movies. It is a point of pride that most of their podcast episodes are longer than the movies they cover.

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SPEAKER_04:

Hi, everyone. Before we get started with this episode, we wanted to quickly just have a chat about what's been going on here in Los Angeles. We are currently recording as several of the LA fires are still ongoing. Thankfully, some of the smaller ones, the Kenneth Fire, the Hearst Fire, seemingly are under control. That's great. But the Palisades Fire and the Eaton Fire, while there is some containment, they are still very much going strong. We are very thankful that we are not among those who have been impacted in terms of losing their home, losing their business. We're very grateful for that. And that is in every way due to the truly heroic efforts of the first responders.

SPEAKER_02:

Absolutely. We found ourselves getting much closer to evacuation zones than we would have thought. Ever, in a million years. But... Because conditions changed, aircraft were able to get going at night, and they did an amazing job that helped keep us safe. But this is still impacting so many people.

SPEAKER_04:

And so we just wanted to take a moment to say that if you feel so inclined to give your support to some of these organizations that not just for days or weeks or months, but it's going to be a very long road. Thank you so much. Thank you so much. Yes, they're running

SPEAKER_02:

the evacuation shelter closest to us.

SPEAKER_04:

So that's a great one to support if you want to support. Thank you so much. near and dear to our hearts are all the animals that have been affected by the situation. And there are many reputable rescues around town. Again, please do your research first. But one that I wanted to point out is the Pasadena Humane Society. They have been doing Thank you so much for listening to this message. Send out everything that you can, everything that you believe in to continue to help the people who are impacted to continue to support and give strength to the first responders that are still very much working to control these two biggest fires. And moving on to our episode.

SPEAKER_00:

Pepper lies a lot. She probably hasn't been to a movie either. Actually, I think it's better when you don't know what you're missing.

SPEAKER_02:

Punjab, buy out the 8 o'clock show. Let's all go to the movie. Hello and welcome to 80s Movie Montage. This is Derek.

SPEAKER_04:

And this is Anna.

SPEAKER_02:

And that was Aline Quinn as Annie talking to Albert Finney as Daddy Warbucks in 1982's Annie.

SPEAKER_04:

Annie!

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04:

I'm actually really excited to talk about this one.

SPEAKER_02:

I had seen it a couple times when I was a kid. I mean, we both talked about this last night when we watched it, but I for sure did not have the appreciation for what must have gone into this.

SPEAKER_04:

Like

SPEAKER_02:

when I was watching it as a kid versus watching it now, I'm like, wow. Oh, I was really impressed.

SPEAKER_04:

Very much so. It's not a perfect film. No. It's, in fact, kind of uneven in a lot of places, but...

SPEAKER_02:

It very much is. But what they got out of the kids and... Oh, my gosh. I mean, it's crazy. To the

SPEAKER_04:

point where I was like, uh... Yeah. That's a lot to ask of a child actor,

SPEAKER_02:

but... Yeah, it really is.

SPEAKER_04:

Let's dive in. I'm sure we'll cover all of it. So, like you said, Annie, 1982. And real quick, before we jump into our usual... cast of crew and characters, wanted to point out that it is an Oscar-nominated film. I mean, I guess I'm kind of surprised. I mean, we'll talk about Annie herself. We'll talk about Aline Quinn and our thoughts on her performance. But, I mean, personally, real quick, I thought she was phenomenal. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, she was great.

SPEAKER_04:

Not a ton of love for that performance in some ways. But as far as the Oscars are concerned, these make sense. for what it was nominated for. The first is Best Art Direction Set Decoration. And the second is Best Music Original Song Score. And listen to this whole title. So, okay. Best Music, original song score and its adaptation or best adaptation score.

SPEAKER_02:

Well, because this movie was based on a musical that was based on a comic. Correct. Right? So it's interesting to me that it would win for an original score. score, but that's maybe why the title was so long, because it was Best Original Adapted... Yeah,

SPEAKER_04:

it was like Song Score. I don't know. The way that they have changed category names over the years, it's hard to... I mean...

SPEAKER_02:

Best Original when we first heard it in another format, which is why it was adapted to this score. Yeah,

SPEAKER_04:

exactly. And one thing that I also wanted to point out, because I kind of saw this when I was going through some I don't know. I guess you'd call it trivia, but it's kind of sad. So the person who was in charge of production design, Dale Hennessy, yeah, I think that's correct, actually passed away during production. And they brought someone else in, but that person refused to take credit because of the circumstances.

SPEAKER_03:

Oh.

SPEAKER_04:

And so Dale is still credited. Yeah. Wow. Wow. The production design of this film was amazing. And we're talking 1982, so I'm not trying to throw shade here, but like everybody else, very recently we watched Wicked. And it is an amazing film. It's a gorgeous film. But obviously they have at their disposal CGI.

SPEAKER_02:

Well, they were, as opposed to trying to make Depression-era New York, they were making Oz movies. Okay,

SPEAKER_04:

fair. However, there is a film called The Wizard of Oz that never had CGI and they managed to do just fine.

SPEAKER_02:

Well, they did okay.

SPEAKER_04:

They did okay. Also,

SPEAKER_02:

just a quick update, correction and retraction. Oh,

SPEAKER_04:

what did I, did I say

SPEAKER_02:

something? No, it was me. I'm the one that brought up the issue of the music when it was based on a musical. But in fact, Dumb Dog, Sandy, Let's Go to the Movies, We Got Annie and Son. They were all new songs. They were all made expressly for the movie.

SPEAKER_04:

Oh, okay.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah. So there you go.

SPEAKER_04:

And just to really quickly give a shout out, the person who stepped in for Dale Hennessy was Gene Callahan. Okay. All right. So let's get into it. Writers. So as you mentioned, first we have a comic strip, then we have a Broadway show, and actually we also have a play, and then we have a movie.

SPEAKER_02:

Okay. You got a few things.

SPEAKER_04:

The comic strip was originated by Harold Gray. Okay. Interestingly enough for this film, didn't get a credit for actually being the originator of the character, which at one point was supposed to be a boy. I think it was supposed to be Little Orphan Otto, but it was changed to a girl.

SPEAKER_02:

Little Orphan Annie rolls off the tongue a little bit better than Little Orphan Otto.

SPEAKER_04:

Yeah, I'm pretty sure it's Otto. Yeah, I don't know. From

SPEAKER_02:

what I read. Sounds like a little orphaned robot, but.

SPEAKER_04:

Shout out to Kinkakee, Illinois, which is where Harold Gray is from. That's not where I'm from, but it's like in the general area where I grew up. He already had passed in 1968, so maybe never realized the type of fame that this comic strip would gain one day. Although I think it was a pretty famous comic strip for its

SPEAKER_02:

time. It was featured in, well, the radio show based on the comic was in Christmas Story. Yeah, so many different ways that

SPEAKER_04:

this character was, yeah. So... As far as IMDb is concerned, Grey has seven writing credits. They're all connected to Annie because he was the originator of the character. That's what he did. So that's what he did. All right. Moving on to the person who wrote the Broadway book, which– okay. So I– we should have pulled our friend Goodfill– Yeah, what is a Broadway book? Okay. Interesting. Mm-hmm. So they are credited for this film. He already passed away in 2017. Unfortunately, because this was like early 80s, a lot of people connected with this movie are no longer with us. But as far as other credits, he had some interesting credits. So Meehan, some of his credits include The Dick Cavett Show. Okay. TV series. A couple films. One of them is going to blow your mind, I think. One is To Be or Not to Be. The other... Spaceballs.

SPEAKER_02:

What the fuck?

SPEAKER_04:

So at some point

SPEAKER_02:

he's going to- He wrote Spaceballs? Yeah,

SPEAKER_04:

he's going to come up again.

SPEAKER_02:

Why did I just think that Mel Brooks wrote that?

SPEAKER_04:

He probably had-

SPEAKER_02:

Probably worked with him?

SPEAKER_04:

Yeah, and I'm sure that, and it's possible that Brooks has like a co-credit for it. If anything, Brooks, I mean, I don't think you like tell Mel Brooks what to say. He just says whatever he's going to say, and it's probably going to be better than whatever you thought.

SPEAKER_02:

Probably.

SPEAKER_04:

So- Anyway. Okay. And then he's also credited with Spaceballs colon animated series. No,

SPEAKER_02:

no idea. Didn't know that

SPEAKER_04:

was a thing.

SPEAKER_02:

Had no idea. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04:

As well as, and this kind of makes sense in a weird way. He also has a credit for the TV special Elf, Buddy's Musical Christmas.

SPEAKER_02:

I didn't know that existed. I'm willing to give it a shot, but I got to be honest. I am very dubious of- TV Christmas specials.

SPEAKER_04:

I know. We've been burned.

SPEAKER_02:

So many times. Every

SPEAKER_04:

time.

SPEAKER_02:

A couple times. All of the times.

SPEAKER_04:

He also wrote on several Tony Awards, in fact, eight of them. So very much part of, like, had his foot in a lot of the different entertainment realms, like live performance and Broadway and TV and all of it, film, and just in general, a lot of TV work. Okay. All right. Moving on to, sorry, we have four people credited here. Martin... Sharnan, I think, like the toilet paper? That's Sharman. That's Sharman. That's Sharman. My

SPEAKER_02:

apologies. This guy, no one's ever accused Martin of being squeezably soft.

SPEAKER_04:

Oh, I'm sorry. I apologize, Marvin. So he's credited with the play. He passed in 2019 a couple of his credits. I think one of them has the most amazing title. Wonderful, Smarvelous, Gershwin. Gershwin. It is. Oh, okay. Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04:

The former... She's, I think, has long since retired from acting. She's now like an artist. But Carol, so she was a screenwriter. Unfortunately, she's also passed, and she passed rather early. She passed in 1990 from liver disease. Oh. So she had an amazing career. For the time that she was with us, I feel pretty confident she would have an even longer filmography. But some of her credits include... The TV series Peyton Plays. And then, and lots of TV movies as well. The films I have for her, The Toy, Sylvester, Fried Green Tomatoes. Okay. 90s film, but a good film. And Money for Nothing. Nice. Okay. So moving on to a director where I feel fairly confident that this is going to be, well, maybe not. I don't know, though. This other, the other 80s film of his... I don't think we'll be covering anytime soon. John Huston. Here's the thing, though. There is a thing about him. There is a thing about him. The thing is that while I don't want to throw out out-of-turn rumors about somebody who can't defend themselves anymore because he has passed away. Actually, only five years after this film.

SPEAKER_03:

He

SPEAKER_04:

passed away in 1987. So he was already 76 years old when this film came out. I mean, storied director. I mean, I'll go through all the Oscar love that he got over the course of his career. And some of his films, you're like, oh, my goodness, it's the same guy. But from what we read, he wasn't super interested in directing this film.

SPEAKER_02:

I don't totally remember. That's not super good for someone who's supposed to direct a film.

SPEAKER_04:

Correct. I don't know if he thought it was like, I don't know, below him. I don't really know. I don't know what the situation was if he was just kind of an older guy and was kind of... I don't know. It's hard to say. But it was apparently, like, the first AD who really was the person who directed this film. Oh, okay. And Houston, for the most part, had kind of, like, tapped out. So take this for what you will as we go through his filmography. Will you do me a favor, though? I know the first name of the first AD is Jeffrey. Will you take a look while I'm going over Houston's filmography? I think last name is, like... Zeismer, something close to that. I want to make sure we give him a shout out.

SPEAKER_01:

Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_04:

So Houston, probably for anyone who has like a passing interest in film, very familiar with this director and possibly even familiar with some of his earlier works. His first directing credit was in 1941. Wow. So more than 40 years prior for The Maltese Falcon. I've heard of that. So that's... The director we're talking about here.

SPEAKER_02:

The director of the Maltese Falcon.

SPEAKER_04:

Yes.

SPEAKER_02:

Okay.

SPEAKER_04:

Also to Danny. Did he though? Supposedly. Yeah. He was there. Exactly. And that kind of tells you a little bit because we've already talked about the production designer and how they passed away. I mean, there's... A lot of, I think, interesting stories in terms of, I mean, even when you talk about, like, Gone with the Wind had a director change. Like, a lot of these films, there's a lot happening behind the scenes. Actually, in the prior episode, we talked about how Ron Howard came in for other directors on Solo. Yeah. Like, it doesn't happen all the time, but it happens. It happens with directors. It happens with other directors. You know, crew members, that sort of thing. In any case, he starts strong because he gets... So Houston, really a man who had a lot of different balls in the air. I think he was probably most well-known as a director. He also did some acting.

SPEAKER_02:

He did.

SPEAKER_04:

He did some writing. I'm going to kind of throw in a lot of things that don't relate directly to his... directing work because this might be the only time we talk about him. So for The Maltese Falcon, he did get a Best Screenplay Oscar nomination. He goes on to get a nomination again for Best Original Screenplay. He did not direct this film, but it was for Dr. Ehrlich's Magic Bullet. Never heard of that film. That doesn't say much. But also got a Best Original Screenplay Nomination for Sergeant York. Oh, okay. Did not direct that one, though. He wrote it, did not direct it. He gets, now finally gets a couple wins. He wins for Best Screenplay, and he wins for Best Director for The Treasure of Sierra Madre. Oh, yeah. He directs Key Largo. I mean, it's just some huge films, huge films. He gets more nominations. He gets another Best Screenplay and Best Director nomination for The Asphalt Jungle. He directs The Red Badge of Courage. This is a great one and has Bogie and Katharine Hepburn. He directs The African Queen, for which he gets, again, a Best Director nomination as well as Best Screenplay. I mean, these are

SPEAKER_02:

all,

SPEAKER_04:

like,

SPEAKER_02:

classic.

SPEAKER_04:

Classic films. I mean, yeah. Yeah. He gets another Best Director nomination for an earlier interview. Gregory Peck. Gregory Peck.

SPEAKER_02:

Is that

SPEAKER_04:

how he does? Is that Gregory Peck?

SPEAKER_02:

So I do it.

UNKNOWN:

Okay.

SPEAKER_04:

He gets a Best Adapted Screenplay nomination for Heaven Knows Mr. Allison. He directs The Misfits. So that, I believe, was the last film of both Marilyn Monroe as well as Clark Gable. Oh, okay. Interesting. So he does that one. He gets a Best Supporting Actor nomination. nomination for a film. He didn't direct this one, but it's for a film called The Cardinal. He does The Night of the Iguana. The

SPEAKER_02:

Night of the what now?

SPEAKER_04:

Iguana.

SPEAKER_02:

Oh.

SPEAKER_04:

What did I say? No,

SPEAKER_02:

you said it. Oh, okay. I'm just not familiar with The Night of the Iguana.

SPEAKER_04:

Oh, okay. Yeah. He also didn't direct this, but he gets a Best Adapted Screenplay nomination for The Man Who Would Be King. And then here we go. So one of his– if not the last film he did– He directed, I think, his own daughter because his daughter is Angelica Houston. Yeah. Okay. Yeah, that's his kid. Wow. Okay. So she gets an Oscar for Pritzy's Honor.

SPEAKER_01:

Okay.

SPEAKER_04:

And he also got a Best Director Oscar now for that. So, okay, when you look at– those are like the biggest hits from his filmography. As

SPEAKER_02:

a director.

SPEAKER_04:

As a director. Yeah. For most of them. It does seem a little out of left field for him to have directed a film like Annie–

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, look, and I think it's obviously well known at this point that one of the challenges with the film was how much money went into the production. So I wonder how much they could have saved by not spending it on a director that wasn't interested in actually directing the movie. Who knows?

SPEAKER_04:

Yeah, I don't know what his paycheck was for the film. But, I mean, regardless of how... involved he was with the actual direction of it. Again, an uneven film, but still quite impressive. Yeah. And we'll get into that, I'm sure, as well. Were you able to find the name of the first AD?

SPEAKER_02:

Oh, yeah. It was Jerry Zeismer. Thank

SPEAKER_04:

you. Okay. But

SPEAKER_02:

before we move to him, I know that there are a fair number of acting credits for Mr. Houston as well.

SPEAKER_04:

Oh, okay.

SPEAKER_02:

And I just wanted to bring up two. Yeah, yeah. He was in the early, early, like, not the Casino Royale with Daniel Craig, the Peter Sellers. Old, old Casino Royale movie. And then he was also the voice of Gandalf in the old, like, animated

SPEAKER_04:

Hobbit. Interesting.

SPEAKER_02:

Animated series. Not series, but there were, like, some TV movies.

SPEAKER_04:

Yeah, he was a really interesting figure.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04:

I don't really know much about him. I never really... went down a rabbit hole of him, but he reminds me a lot. And I swear it's not just because of the name, but he reminds me a lot of John Ford, kind of these like kind of gruff old school type directors.

SPEAKER_02:

He has an old gruff voice. If you've heard Gandalf the gray. Yeah. Performances. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04:

I mean, for, for whatever he did or didn't do for this film, he did legitimately tracked. Oh yeah. Incredible movies. So, all right, moving on to cinematography. Yeah. Richard Moore. So Annie was his final credit. So usually we talk a lot about– but he didn't– he's no longer with us as well. But he passed in 2009. So, you know, 25 years, a little bit more, went by between this being his final credit as a cinematographer and him passing away.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04:

I don't know if it has something– so he– something that's really interesting about his career, he co-founded Panavision.

SPEAKER_02:

Oh. Well, maybe you don't have to do– maybe you're just doing different things. Yeah. I mean, I

SPEAKER_04:

think that's definitely what it was. He was doing different things, I think. Some of his credits, though, we have his first credit, which was in 1965. That was for Operation CIA. I have all films. Young Americans, Wild in the Streets. Winning! There's no exclamation there, but I had to do it that way. I had to. Winning! And the film that I knew the best of all of these, Maya Breckenridge. Oh, cool. Richard Moore. All right. Music. Charles Strauss. He is still with us. 96 years old. Nice. Well done, Mr. Strauss. Well done. Not a ton less. Well,

SPEAKER_02:

got to pace yourself. That's how you make it in your 90s.

SPEAKER_04:

To make it to 96. Yeah. It could very well be that he has been very busy, just not necessarily in the realm of like television and film. Maybe

SPEAKER_02:

he works at

SPEAKER_04:

Panavision. Well, he's a composer.

SPEAKER_02:

I know, but I'm just saying.

SPEAKER_04:

Maybe. I guess that doesn't fully exclude him from working at Panavision. So a couple of his credits, film called There Was a Crooked Man, dot, dot, dot.

UNKNOWN:

Hmm.

SPEAKER_02:

I like– that's a good ellipsis.

SPEAKER_04:

There's not enough of those in– and you know what? It's funny because sometimes they change them around. I believe When Harry Met Sally still has an ellipsis. Yeah. But Better Off Dead used to have one, and I think they got rid of it.

SPEAKER_02:

Interesting.

SPEAKER_04:

Yeah. So sometimes they keep them. Sometimes they don't. Dot, dot, dot. Dot, dot, dot. Another film, Just Tell Me What You Want. I

SPEAKER_02:

kind of like that title. I heard that was like an alternate title to The Notebook.

UNKNOWN:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04:

Tell me what you want. He did the TV movie Annie Live and then just like a handful of TV movies and videos and shorts, kind of a little bit of this, a little bit of that. Okay. Okay. Moving on to film editing, Michael A. Stevenson. Let's see. Actually, a really notable filmography for him. I have all films, starting with Seems Like Old Times. He cut the– use my words. He cut the toy. He did that.

SPEAKER_02:

The Richard Pryor Jackie Gleason? Correct. Yeah. Okay.

SPEAKER_04:

So he worked on a couple like films in their sequels. So he did both Three Men and a Baby as well as Three Men and a Little Lady.

SPEAKER_02:

Those movies.

UNKNOWN:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04:

Three Men and a Baby, I have not seen that in forever. I mean, that's the 80s, right? We could do that.

SPEAKER_02:

It stretched the concept to its very limits, and they're like, challenge accepted.

SPEAKER_04:

Yeah. Kind of an odd concept.

SPEAKER_02:

Look at these guys. They don't know how to be around a baby. So

SPEAKER_04:

he did that.

SPEAKER_02:

They're so out of place.

SPEAKER_04:

As well as Honey, I Shrunk the Kids and Honey, I Blew Up the Kid. Yeah. I don't know if that title would be used. It's just such a weird, weird title. Well, it's not.

SPEAKER_02:

I exploited the kid. Yeah, that's true. I disintegrated the kid.

SPEAKER_04:

I disintegrated the kid. So he probably will come up again. National Lampoon's Christmas Vacation. He has very much a niche if you look at these films as a whole because then he also cut The Sandlot. Okay. Look Who's Talking Now. Jungle to Jungle. Flubber. Muppets from Space, and Garfield, colon, the movie.

SPEAKER_02:

Like family, family kind of stuff. But then those were all ones where he was actually like the credit was editor. Correct. And then there's one that I really love, which seems to go off in a slightly different direction where he was just in the editorial department called Murder by Death. Wow. Probably less of the family fare, but who knows? We are at the stars of the film. Before we get there. Oh, sure. I'm just going to give a quick shout out. We mentioned his name, the first AD, Jerry Zeismer. But I just want to note, since he was the first AD on some movies that we have both covered, and I think that we enjoy, Some Kind of Wonderful. Yes. First AD. Midnight Run. I do enjoy that. Say Anything.

SPEAKER_04:

We'll definitely do Midnight Run at some point.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah. Say Anything, which we have also covered. Marked for Death, which I will never watch. And Jerry Maguire in Almost Famous.

SPEAKER_04:

Uh... Why not mark for– oh, is that a Steven Seagal film? Yes. Okay. All right. Fair enough. Say no more. Yeah. So thank you for doing that. That is very much something that we should do for somebody who presumably directed this film. And if you didn't, sorry. Sorry, but sorry, not sorry. All right, moving on to Albert Finney. This is the way I'm going to do it because of the way that they were credited in the film. And I think it's fair. Like, this was Aline Quinn's first film, and she was amazing. But this is not actually too... Well,

SPEAKER_02:

yeah, it's the same thing that we kind of talked about in the last one. Correct. With Warwick Davis not getting first billing, even though he's basically carrying the movie.

SPEAKER_04:

True.

SPEAKER_02:

And this movie, like Annie, like succeeds or fails on her performance, honestly. Yes. Like Daddy Warbucks could have like fallen flat in his face and no one would really care.

SPEAKER_04:

Yeah. I mean, he is... But

SPEAKER_02:

he didn't. He was really

SPEAKER_04:

good. This is such an interesting character. Like, I was thinking about this. So this is like a two-hour movie. It's not a short movie.

SPEAKER_01:

No.

SPEAKER_04:

I do think it goes along at like a decent clip. I kind of enjoy the first half more than the second half. Oh, really? Yeah. You enjoy the second half more?

SPEAKER_02:

Well, I felt like the beginning... The beginning where they're, like, setting up, there was more of them in the orphanage cleaning and being mistreated, basically.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02:

Than I would have accepted. Expected. Mm-hmm. And then you have, like, the whole scene where she finds the dog and kicks the shit out of those kids, which is great. Amazing. Love her. Yeah, gotta keep that in. Such a

SPEAKER_04:

spunky little kid.

SPEAKER_02:

She sure is. She, like, belts a couple of them. She's like, who wants some more? She's

SPEAKER_04:

amazing. I love how fucking tough she is.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah. But it didn't seem... I wasn't really sure. Where is this all going? So until Warbucks says that he wants to fully adopt her and they're going to be her parents, and she's like, I'm still waiting for my real parents. It feels like a second movie starts then. It

SPEAKER_04:

does. Yeah. I mean, the reason why I said that is because I think despite the fact of it being a two-hour movie, the... arc for Warbucks felt a little too easy. I

SPEAKER_02:

hate kids. I love Annie.

SPEAKER_04:

Yeah. It happened. It felt really fast. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02:

That's fair. So

SPEAKER_04:

that's fine. That's fine. I mean, maybe that is just like a little bit what a musical is.

SPEAKER_02:

That's the power of Anne ranking who we'll get to. Oh,

SPEAKER_04:

sure. Because it was all... Oh, she's amazing.

SPEAKER_02:

It was really like... Her. Brokering

SPEAKER_04:

the relationship

SPEAKER_02:

between them. Because he's telling her, like, oh, this is really important to you. And she's like, it is. And so that's what really, like, pushed him over the edge.

SPEAKER_04:

Yeah. And then we could get into the romance question mark between the two of them, too. Because, like, that's just, like, that's literally at the end is, like, one kiss and then there you go. I mean, I know they have that little conversation. We'll get to that. Yeah. But love Albert Finney. He passed away in 2019. Yeah. And he was a five-time nominated Oscar, or five-time Oscar nominee is the way I'll say it, all for acting, of course. And very early in his career, his first nom was for, and let's see, they're all, well, okay, except for the last one, which I also love him in. They're all best actor. The last one's best supporting. But the first, Tom Jones. Have you ever seen Tom Jones?

SPEAKER_02:

No. Is that the Not Unusual? No.

SPEAKER_04:

No, not. Which is kind of funny, right? Although I guess Tom Jones isn't like a totally, like that's probably a pretty common name. Fair enough. He, I remember seeing it in film school. Oh. And I was, and I, I knew the film was an, it won, it won best picture for its year. So I was like, okay, I know of the film. I don't know the film. It's a really great film. Okay. And he's fantastic in it. So go see that. That's like 1963. So he gets the first nom there. He's in Two for the Road. He's in not Scrooge,

SPEAKER_02:

but Scrooge. Just Scrooge. Just Scrooge. He's Ebenezer Scrooge. Correct.

SPEAKER_04:

He gets his next nomination for Murder on the Orient Express.

SPEAKER_02:

Where he played Hercule Poirot. Okay, you know that. That's the main guy, the detective. Oh,

SPEAKER_04:

okay, so I don't really know that

SPEAKER_02:

stuff at all. Yeah, he's the guy.

SPEAKER_04:

Okay, he's the guy.

SPEAKER_02:

I wonder, he probably, he had to have had the mustache because that's just like a trademark of the character.

SPEAKER_04:

Okay. Yeah. He probably will come up again because we will almost certainly at some point cover Wolfen.

SPEAKER_02:

Wait, which is Wolfen, was it Wolfen 2 that got all crazy at the end? You know the one where the credits...

SPEAKER_04:

Your sister is a werewolf?

SPEAKER_02:

Is that it? Is that the sequel?

SPEAKER_04:

Is it The Howling?

SPEAKER_02:

I don't know. It might be The Wolfen. Wolfen sequel. It

SPEAKER_04:

might be Wolfen. Yeah. I feel like you're going to look that one up for us to confirm. But he's in that, so I'm sure we're going to do that at some point. It's the one that gets short shrift with all the werewolf films that I think all came out in 1981. The 80s

SPEAKER_02:

were huge with them. Werewolf movies.

SPEAKER_04:

Yeah, yeah, especially the early 80s. But I'm pretty sure American Werewolf in London, The Howling, and Wolfen, I think they all came out in 81. It's kind of bizarre. So he's in that. He gets his next Oscar nomination for The Dresser. And I don't know these films. He gets another one for Under the Volcano. Under the Volcano? Yeah, I don't know it. Okay. Miller's Crossing, A Man of No Importance, Breakfast of Champions. He is so good in Aaron Brockovich.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah. No, that's what I think of in terms of his standout. He's so good. He's good in everything, but that one really stands out in my mind.

SPEAKER_04:

Yeah. I'm glad he got a nomination. I wish he would have won. I'm wondering who did win instead. He's in Big Fish. I would presume you know him from, because you like these movies, The Bourne Ultimatum and The Bourne Legacy. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02:

Yes, on all counts. Okay. Yeah, I do enjoy those movies quite a bit and I like his character.

SPEAKER_04:

And then his final credit, this is the James Bond film, right? Skyfall?

SPEAKER_02:

Yes.

SPEAKER_04:

Okay.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, it was part of like the Daniel Craig, James Bond arc, which is really interesting because it goes from like start to finish because he's dead at the end in a film ironically entitled No Time to Die. They found just enough time.

SPEAKER_04:

I think you've said that before.

SPEAKER_02:

Probably on this podcast. That joke writes itself, so I just feel bad if I don't put it out there.

SPEAKER_04:

But yeah, I mean, Finney, I think he's a phenomenal actor. I think that very much the intention of the way the character is introduced is to be very over the top, to be very intimidating. Yeah. I mean, especially the intro scene with him where he just is like barking at everybody in the beginning. Get this

SPEAKER_02:

kid out

SPEAKER_04:

of here. But it is kind of interesting because like– and we'll get to it. I just– I really am excited to talk about Aline Quinn because the way that she immediately kind of emotionally manipulates him when she first meets him is– Yeah. You know, the song at the end where he basically, like, in the lyrics it says, you've wrapped me around your little finger. She immediately does that.

SPEAKER_02:

Well, even in the clip that we started the episode with where she's like, yeah, it's better to just not even know we are missing. It's so good. But he knows it. Like, he's not, like, he's certainly not dumb. No. But I think he, like... kind of appreciates there's some like admiration and how mutual

SPEAKER_04:

admiration

SPEAKER_02:

there yeah

SPEAKER_04:

and even like it's you know when he's like I think you should know a little bit about me And he talks to her like– he says to her, can we have a man-to-man talk? Yeah. And she's like, sure. She just immediately is like– Is

SPEAKER_02:

that when he's like, let's go outside. Yeah. And they're like, let's go back in.

SPEAKER_04:

And they both have like their hands behind their– it's really endearing. But then he's telling her like some pretty serious stuff like my brother died. Yeah. That's when I realized being rich was the most important thing to me. You know, in his own way, he's very much making himself vulnerable to tell her about Why he is the way he is. Which

SPEAKER_02:

I think, don't they say that he's a billionaire? He is a billionaire. Which in 1982 is probably like...

SPEAKER_04:

Well, the film comes out in 1982, but the film is set in 1933. Well, that's

SPEAKER_02:

even more ridiculous then. Yes,

SPEAKER_04:

he is a billionaire in

SPEAKER_02:

1933. Because a billionaire, that wouldn't even make any sense then.

SPEAKER_04:

Well, that I think is part of maybe, perhaps, why the comic strip had... It's popularity because like actually if you look at films of the late 1930s, early– pre-World War II.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04:

Where we're still very much in the Great Depression, people flocked to the films that showed high society and rich life because it was escapism. And so my theory is that the reason why Warbucks was part of the comic strip is because that's the same– Same way that people looked at that character. It was kind of an aspirational, in a way, escapist type of way of looking at something, character. Sorry, I'm not articulating that that well, but you know what I mean. No, I do, yeah. So, okay, let's move on to Miss Hannigan,

SPEAKER_02:

Carol Burnett. She was incredible in this. Incredible! Because I... primarily would like know her from the Carol Burnett show. And this character could not have been more different. Oh, I mean, she was just like this fucking mean, horny old lady. It was just like a mean, horny child abusing lady. Yes. Who gets it? Who somehow gets it? Yeah. I honestly thought she was just going to like die in that tub. I didn't realize she, she was like using the tub to make, make the liquor or something. But then I, It was... Prohibition was over, right? It was a lot. I don't... Was it? Maybe? I don't know. I don't know. You have to go watch The Untouchables for me to remember that.

SPEAKER_04:

I mean, 1920s for sure. Let's take a look at the Prohibition era. Oh, interesting. From 1920 to 33. Okay. So potentially, we are at the very talent of the Prohibition era. So maybe that's why she was making her... bathtub gin

SPEAKER_02:

or whatever it was. That batch was too strong because she was sauced in every fucking second of the movie.

SPEAKER_04:

I mean, she's such an incredible actor. Amazing physical comedy. Yeah. I mean, based upon decades of work with like the Carol Burnett show and other projects. She is so fun to watch. I mentioned to you that like So I listened to a podcast ages ago, but from what I recall, she really was very much... I mean, obviously, she is a performer. She was the star of The Carol Burnett Show, but that was always her interest in singing in addition. So she really wanted this role to be... I mean, obviously, she's not showing off operatic... singing chops, but like, it gives her a chance to do something in a, on a larger

SPEAKER_02:

scale. And you mentioned that we have recently seen Wicked. Yeah. And so you have like the two leads who are obviously very accomplished singers. Yeah. And then other people like, look, do look Jeff Goldblum. He did, he did as good of a job as you'd expect Jeff Goldblum to do in singing. I think Carol Barnett was like in this middle tier where she did like, Markedly better than just like, you know, another actor who would be in that position where she had to sing. She wasn't on par with like a top tier like singing performance, but she was really good.

SPEAKER_04:

Fun fact that connects Wicked to this film. What's that? Christian Chenoweth. Oh. She was up for the role of Annie as a child. Okay. But she had too strong of a Southern accent.

SPEAKER_02:

Wow.

UNKNOWN:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04:

So there you go.

SPEAKER_02:

That never stopped Sean Connery from anything.

SPEAKER_04:

Sean Connery also- Was up for Annie? Was up for- Now take this, I always take this as a grain of salt, but he apparently was in talks about playing Daddy Warbucks and was supposedly even taking singing lessons, but that never worked out.

SPEAKER_02:

Oh my God, that would have been amazing. I like

SPEAKER_04:

Albert Finney. No, no.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah. He was great. And that's who I have always just like envisioned now since like seeing the kid. Yeah. Again, like we talked about, I just didn't have the same appreciation for the movie when I first saw it. Neither did I have an appreciation of who he was, of that actor.

SPEAKER_04:

Yeah. I mean, to really quickly talk about like first time, I don't, I don't have like a memory of seeing this for the first time. I just know that for some reason I saw it a ton as a kid and then I haven't seen it in years. So it– It was almost like a clean slate seeing it for the first time. I

SPEAKER_02:

remember that it ended on like a bridge or something that she was climbing and had to be rescued from. I had these like core

SPEAKER_04:

memories of certain scenes. Yeah. Especially all the Carol Burnett scenes because she's so memorable. And she's very much still with us, 91 years old. So as far as her credits are concerned, I have mostly television. Mostly her show. Mostly her show. So the TV series, The Carol Burnett Show, 287 episodes, 125 primetime Emmys. The show. Yeah. So amazing. I mean, something that is very much a extraordinary part of TV history. She also, like, kind of, not spinoffs, but, like, some of the characters from... I think the Carol Burnett show, she was on Mama's Family. Oh,

SPEAKER_02:

yeah. I could, yeah.

SPEAKER_04:

But that wasn't really, that was more Vicky, Vicky, Vicky. I can't remember her last name. It was like her show. So she was on Carol and Company. She was in the film Noises Off. Kind of makes sense. I didn't know this. She was on, for a little bit, on the TV show All My Children. Really? Yeah. Okay. Which I think is kind of fun. She was on Mad About You. More recently, in fact, last year, Palm Royale. So she was on that. And I mean, my goodness, if you go to her filmography so much.

SPEAKER_02:

So many one-offs and like so many other, like, I mean, she was in four episodes of Better Call Saul.

SPEAKER_04:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah. Do you remember

SPEAKER_04:

her from that?

SPEAKER_02:

I do. Yeah. I'd have to watch it again. But yeah, I remember like clocking that.

SPEAKER_04:

I mean, she's a really good actress. She's not just kind of this like wacky actress. you know, body or like physical comedy type performer. She's a really good actor. She,

SPEAKER_02:

she is. Yeah. Like I always, for, for whatever reason, I always like kind of think of her in the same kind of like company of Lucille Ball. Very much so. And

SPEAKER_04:

she was very, like they were friends and she was very inspired by Lucille Ball. Yeah. Yeah. So that makes total sense. Okay. Moving on to, you mentioned her a minute ago, Anne Rankine.

SPEAKER_03:

So

SPEAKER_04:

I was really sad. I didn't realize when I was doing my research that she had also passed. She passed in 2020. So she has a really short filmography because for the majority of her career, she was a Broadway dancer. She was a cinematographer. I'm sorry, cinematographer. She was a choreographer. Yeah, that would be really, really. Panavision? Panavision. Panavision. So yes, that's where she spent most of her career, on stage. And I was mentioning to you while we were watching the film, I didn't realize like she had a really close relationship with Bob Fosse.

SPEAKER_01:

So

SPEAKER_04:

she was part of kind of that whole world. And she plays Grace. I'm going to say Farrell. Is it Farrell? Farrell? Farrell.

SPEAKER_02:

Sure.

SPEAKER_04:

Sure. So, oh, Vicki Martin, right? That's who, is that her last name? From, because I want to always make sure. The actress who worked with Carol Burnett. Oh, I don't, I don't know. But you know who I'm talking about, right? From Mama's Family?

SPEAKER_02:

Oh, yes. But I don't recognize the name. I recognize, like, because that was Mama, right? Yes. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04:

Well, now I got to see Mama's Family.

SPEAKER_02:

Come on. Please stand by.

SPEAKER_04:

Please stand by. Vicki Lawrence, my apologies. Okay. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02:

I don't recognize that name either, but I recognize the show Mama's Family, and I would recognize the face. Of course. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04:

So as far as Ann Ranking goes... The couple credits that I have for her, she was also– this makes all the sense in the world. She was also in the film All That Jazz. I'm kind

SPEAKER_02:

of surprised she wasn't in like Chorus Line or like some of those because–

SPEAKER_04:

She would have been great as– and forgive me for not remembering character names. But the character who is kind of aging out of it, I think she would have been– who knows? Maybe she did try out for some of these roles. But yeah, I only have All That Jazz and Mickey and Maude. Okay. So she was so good in this film. She really was. She's so sweet. It's really cute how quickly she found herself attached to Annie. I really like her in this film. That's why I was kind of sad I didn't see her anymore.

SPEAKER_02:

When she first visits the orphanage. She like encounters her and immediately she's just like, yeah, this kid's great.

SPEAKER_04:

Yeah. And she's also tough. Like when Miss Hannigan's like, you can have any kid except for Annie and she fights for her.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah. I remember the scene where she's like, fuck you. I'm getting Annie. Yeah. Didn't say it like that. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04:

But that's essentially what the sentiment was. Yeah. And then Annie, When Annie– and also I just– I love all these little moments when Annie's like, well, we have to bring my dog. And she's like, we weren't looking for a dog. And then Annie's like, well, then I can't come with you. And like every– except for like– like it's really clear that like, quote, good people all have integrity and then the bad people don't. But it's– we'll get to– Miss Hannigan's redemption arc, question mark, at the end of the film.

SPEAKER_02:

Her redemption arc basically consists of not murder.

SPEAKER_04:

Yeah, you can do anything you want. You can abuse her. We can steal money under false pretense. We can do all these things, but just don't kill her. Don't kill her. Yeah, and I mean, it's just kind of funny when she's like, she's just a baby, which is a line right out of Poltergeist. But anyway, so...

SPEAKER_02:

That does lead very, very nicely... To the next person on the list.

SPEAKER_04:

Tim Curry.

SPEAKER_02:

The person who was going to kill her.

SPEAKER_04:

The person who was going to kill her.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah. Her brother.

SPEAKER_04:

Rooster. So many. Which it's so funny because when he and Burnett Peters come up pretending to be Annie's parents and they're kind of practicing on Hannah again. I'm like, you're seriously telling me you don't recognize your own brother just because he's wearing like a bigger mustache.

SPEAKER_02:

No one is that drunk. No one's that drunk. He had a hat, too.

SPEAKER_04:

He had a hat.

SPEAKER_02:

And I think Bernadette Peters had a hat also. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04:

I mean, it's very much the Clark Kent glasses

SPEAKER_02:

thing. Two hats and a mustache. Tough. But I

SPEAKER_04:

will say, okay, so first of all, love Tim Curry. Feel like he's a little underutilized.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, very much so.

SPEAKER_04:

In this role. And we'll get to her too, but same thing with Bernadette Peters. But I guess it's like, okay, it's already a two-hour movie.

SPEAKER_02:

No, I think she was utilized fine.

SPEAKER_04:

Oh, I like Bernadette Peters. That's as much as I can handle. So... Tim Curry is amazing. Unfortunately, he's also had some like more reason. We talked about this with Val Kilmer. He's had some recent health conditions, which have somewhat impacted his ability to work. But he still has, as of this moment, over 240 acting credits.

SPEAKER_02:

I'm sure I've mentioned it before, but when we went to, what was it, Monster Fest?

SPEAKER_04:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah. And he was- Monsterpalooza. Monsterpalooza, sorry. Thank you very

SPEAKER_04:

much.

SPEAKER_02:

But there were opportunities to meet some of the celebrities from different movies. And Tim Curry's was in a whole separate building.

SPEAKER_04:

Yes.

SPEAKER_02:

Because just to manage the capacity of the number of people that wanted to get the chance just to see him for even a second.

SPEAKER_04:

He had his own auditorium.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04:

Yeah. Because he's that beloved. And deservedly so. Absolutely. Not the first time we've even talked about him. This is, I believe, the third. At least. Probably the last. Just as far as his work in the 80s that we can cover.

SPEAKER_02:

I'll see what I can do.

SPEAKER_04:

So, of course, he comes onto the scene very strong early in his career. He is in the Rocky Horror Picture Show. Yes. Amazing. Amazing. I mean, love him in that. I think it's also interesting that he does something like that. That is a very strong performance, a very iconic type of character. And then he goes– like it makes sense that he would be in something like Legend off of a performance like that. But I actually think it's really interesting that he's in a film like Annie and he's in a film like Clue because those are much more subdued performances.

SPEAKER_02:

Clue maybe– towards the end it gets pretty– He gets, he's able to like really amp it up a little bit. Yeah. And like in the dance scene that he has in Annie, he's able to like let some of that out. But yeah.

SPEAKER_04:

And that's kind of what I'm getting at is like the real performance part of Annie. Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02:

Well, I think we talked about that. It

SPEAKER_04:

was actually pretty taxing to be in all that makeup. He is phenomenal in that. Go check that one out. And he does a lot of stuff because he is both on screen. He obviously has this really interesting voice. So he's done a lot of voice work. He was on a TV series, Paddington Bear. He's done a lot of kid stuff. And it's funny because with that one in particular, he was a character, Mr. Curry. So Tim Curry played Mr. Curry. He, of course, is iconic in the TV miniseries It.

SPEAKER_02:

He's the best part of that. It has not... Aged very well. But yes, I think.

SPEAKER_04:

Do you think his performance, though, has aged well? I think his performance has aged well.

SPEAKER_02:

I think it has. Yeah. Yeah. I don't. It's probably. Pennywise. Probably like really going out on a limb to say that his performance is why they did like a revisit of that movie.

SPEAKER_04:

I don't think that's going out on a limb.

SPEAKER_02:

But yeah. I mean, he's so iconic in that. I wish I wish we could have had him as Pennywise with like. the modern, like everything else upgraded, modernized.

SPEAKER_04:

No shade to Skarsgård.

SPEAKER_02:

No, it was just a very, it was like, it was less, there was like this sinister playfulness with Curry and he brought something to it where the Skarsgård version is just more like pure evil without, like with Curry, you very much got the sense of him just like playing, like fucking with them just because that's, What he liked to do. I

SPEAKER_04:

think you picked up on like what I was not in a very articulate way trying to say is that there's a playfulness to everything that he does. And I love when we get to see more than less of that. Yeah. So and that's why, again, like I'm kind of even surprised he wanted to maybe even be in this film because he wasn't given a ton outside of what you said with the one musical number. Apparently Mick Jagger. Wanted to have this role. And this wasn't even the first time. I

SPEAKER_02:

would have been fine with that. Honestly, it's like, whatever.

SPEAKER_04:

He could have been fun. I guess he also was up for the same role in Rocky Horror Picture Show. But I'm glad Curry. Yeah,

SPEAKER_02:

I mean, I could see I could see that. But I think it'd be tough to top Curry's performance. Agreed. As Dr. Frank-Inferter. Correct.

SPEAKER_04:

Okay, moving through some of his other credits. Oscar, he did voice work for the TV series Peter Pan and the Pirates. He is in Home Alone 2, Lost in New York. Too bad, because we'll never watch it. We'll never watch it. The Three Musketeers, The Shadow, Congo. Oh, The Shadow. When was that? 90s. Damn. Muppet Treasure Island. He does more voice work for the TV series Mighty Ducks, the animated series, as well as two other shows, Jumanji, Voltron, Colon, The Third Dimension. He is in, these are some films, Mikhail's Navy, Charlie's Angels, Scary Movie 2, a TV series called Family Affair. Okay. And as I said, over 240 acting credits, so far, far more than what I've covered. Okay. Bernadette Peters. So she plays Lily. She is Rooster's girlfriend. They're a fun couple in that they just, like, are always scheming together. Always. The entire time. At every moment. Every moment. Every moment. Apparently, another person who was up for Rooster was Steve Martin, but he was coming out of a relationship with Benedict Peters.

SPEAKER_02:

I'm guessing from their work together on The Jerk.

SPEAKER_04:

That makes sense.

SPEAKER_02:

Which would have been before this because that was like late 70s. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04:

So she does have actually a fair number of like film and TV credits, but she also huge Broadway performer. So that is where she has spent a ton of her time over the course of her career. But some of her credits include the TV series All's Fair, To Your Point, The Jerk. Yep. And she worked with Martin a lot. She's in Pennies from Heaven. Yeah. Pink Cadillac. The film Alice. She too, she has an interesting voice. So she has done voice work. She has done voice work for the Animaniacs. Oh, okay. That's fun. And then I think most of what I have for her is also TV. Ugly Betty, Smash, Mozart in the Jungle, The Good Fight, and High Desert.

SPEAKER_02:

Interestingly enough, because we've brought up so many other Wicked or Oz-related references, she played Glinda. She voiced Glinda in Legends of Oz, Dorothy's Return.

SPEAKER_04:

Interesting.

SPEAKER_02:

I don't know what that is, but she was in it. Okay. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04:

Okay. Moving on to, finally, Aline Quinn. All right. Who plays Annie. So we're going to kind of burn through the next five people because in comparison to... Just these like huge iconic figures that have been part of entertainment in Hollywood. And this isn't to diminish anybody who's loved. It's just that they've decided to do other things, I think, with their lives in large part. Which happens with kids. Happens with kids all the time. In a way, though, I got to say I'm kind of shocked because to me, she puts in a phenomenal performance.

SPEAKER_02:

She really did. I agree. Yeah. I mean,

SPEAKER_04:

she is like who...

SPEAKER_02:

From the very beginning. A

SPEAKER_04:

Laura Dannen would be if she grew up a couple years. Like when we talked about how Laura Dannen had such an expressive face as a baby. Yeah. Obviously, it was twins playing that role. I was like, oh, I could see that this would have been Annie a couple years down the road. She's so good. She is so good as a child actor. She was. I mean, I am smitten with her in everything, every single scene that she's in. And she's in most So she has nine total acting credits. You know, as a kid, she did a lot of voice work. So she was in, like, did voice work for a film, I'm presuming animated, The Wizard of Oz. So

SPEAKER_02:

there we go, another wicked connection. I mean, maybe I shouldn't be surprised. There are so many back and forth musicals, but it is a lot.

SPEAKER_04:

A TV movie she did voice work for called The Charmkins. Okay. The film The Frog Prince. And then way, way further down the line, a film called Multiple Sarcasms. I think you brought that up.

SPEAKER_02:

That's come up before, yeah.

SPEAKER_04:

So, I mean, we've kind of brought her up. all along throughout this episode so far. But, you know, it makes me sad to hear that she was, you said, up for a Razzie, or she won. She

SPEAKER_02:

won a Razzie for worst, like, new... I

SPEAKER_04:

think, first of all, that's so shitty. To

SPEAKER_02:

do it for a kid is like... Kids should

SPEAKER_04:

be off limits. Yeah. Even if they're... you know, under like juvenile performers or whatever. And I know they're in the spotlight. I know that like, it's a performance like anybody else's to be critiqued, but she's still a fucking kid. Give

SPEAKER_02:

one to that kid from the mummy part too. But I mean, leave Annie

SPEAKER_04:

alone. I know I didn't have great things to say about that person, but she's so good in this and she's so charismatic. I mean, and also we'll get into this cause I am going to bring up a couple of the other, uh, Orphans, I guess you would

SPEAKER_02:

say. Yes, you'd have to. That's what

SPEAKER_04:

they all are. That's what they are. But holy cow, for what these kids were asked to do, and her in particular, between acting, singing, and dancing, she's amazing. Yeah. She's so good. And even just little things like where she gets smuggled out. of the orphanage and when she first is walking down the street and she knows the cop is tailing her and just like the little looks like she's so expressive yeah and then yeah when we were talking about You know, she goes down the alley. She sees those, like, brats being mean to Sandy.

SPEAKER_02:

Takes them down.

SPEAKER_04:

Takes them down. She is a tough little girl. Like, even when she was still at the orphanage, the tough girl, Pepper, she does not back down from her at all.

SPEAKER_02:

No, she does not.

SPEAKER_04:

Like, she is not scared of anything. The only thing she's scared of in the whole entire movie was when she's at the top of the fucking bridge, which anybody would be. True. So she is a... Brave, tough little girl. I love the portrayal of her. And I guess that's all I got to say about that. So moving on to, okay, so here we go. Before I get to the other two little girls, I definitely want to bring up the two gentlemen who are part of the Warbucks entourage, I guess you would say. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02:

Warbucks staff? I don't know.

SPEAKER_04:

Staff, yeah. Yep, yep. The first is Punjab. So played by Jeffrey Holder. So this is when very much kind of the 80s problematic thing comes into play. So Punjab... is presumably a character who is Indian or of Indian descent.

SPEAKER_02:

It's so messed up. It's just like his character, the way that they have him with just like these mystical powers with the music, whatever he- The

SPEAKER_04:

mystical sayings.

SPEAKER_02:

This guy's fucking levitating shit, just like- Yeah, I know. It's kind of amazing that they're

SPEAKER_04:

just like, what

SPEAKER_02:

up? With the music. And I'm like,

SPEAKER_04:

what? I guess I'll say this much. At least- They did not bring on an actor who was working in like brownface for this role. He also is unfortunately an actor who is no longer with us. Holder passed in 2014. He was like I think from Trinidad, Trinidad and Tobago. I think that was his– like where he came from. All to say though, it does not age well that somebody who is not of that– Ethnicity was put in that role, and it's very stereotyped between the music, the headscarf. It would

SPEAKER_02:

be criticized greatly if something like that came out right now and when it was originally released. I'm sure of all the things that people complained about in the movie, no one even batted an

SPEAKER_04:

eye at that. Correct.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04:

And I think as much as anybody could, he gave that role— as much dignity as any other actor in that position could.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah. I mean, he had a great performance. Yeah. I mean,

SPEAKER_04:

for whatever it's worth, he was treated with a ton of respect within that world. Sure. Yes. Well,

SPEAKER_02:

you better because he can fucking levitate things. Exactly.

SPEAKER_04:

So Holder, some of his credits include the 1967 Dr. Doolittle. I have... almost all films for him. Everything you always wanted to know about sex, but were afraid to ask. Live and Let Die. You brought that up.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, that was like the James Bond movies are very much like a reflection of whatever time they came out in. And yeah, he's like the Baron Samedi, but it's very like, it's exploitive, very similar to the ways that we're talking about in this. But like 90% of the casting in that movie is Yes. Is that same way, so.

SPEAKER_04:

He was in the film Boomerang, and then the TV series Bear in the Big Blue House. Okay. Okay, the other gentleman who, so they are also referenced as, it's kind of funny, Warbucks' bodyguards.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04:

So the other one is the Asp, who apparently is also the chauffeur. Also a helicopter pilot. So he

SPEAKER_02:

wears a lot of hats.

SPEAKER_04:

Very talented. I don't know if he has a single line in the film. I

SPEAKER_02:

don't think he does.

SPEAKER_04:

Yeah. So played by Roger Manami. Only two acting credits. He is still with us. I think he just has– like he is a dancer, performer, artist, dancer. Okay. Yeah. is thrown through the window. And the way that Punjab does this, like, he does a couple spins to get it back out of the

SPEAKER_02:

house. So unnecessary. But yeah, like the spins and then like chucking the bomb out. It very much reminded me of like Pink Panther kind of scene. Yes. Where Kato would just fucking bust out of something and they would fight and then it was over. Because Warbucks didn't even react to it.

SPEAKER_04:

No, which I think that the intention behind that is like Yeah. Yeah. But to say like, oh, this just happens all the time.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah. So. Because you could see it going on in the back and I'm like, wait.

SPEAKER_04:

And nobody seemed concerned. Yeah. It was very funny. Okay. So here we go with the last two child actors, the first of which, Molly. So Molly is probably the youngest. She is the littlest kid, I think. So little that, you know, Pepper, kind of the bully of the group, was like, she shouldn't even be here with us. She's a baby. She wets her pants. You

SPEAKER_02:

know what? All of their kids just started kicking the shit out of Pepper when she said that.

SPEAKER_04:

Yeah, it's kind of funny. Like,

SPEAKER_02:

it's a bunch of kids, so I don't know. They might have actually been beating her up.

SPEAKER_04:

It's possible. I mean, I don't

SPEAKER_02:

know. I think that's what happened.

SPEAKER_04:

I mean, Molly and the actress who plays her, Toni Ann Gassandi, holy cow! I mean— She maybe was just a little too young to play Annie, but I was thinking as you're watching, I was like, she could have been Annie, too, because she is so charismatic. Very much so. And I'm just thinking to myself, she's so little, and she has her own singing sequence. Yeah. She stars in her own singing. It's just wild to me. Yep. I was commenting that like sometimes what you do, especially like nowadays, is you– maybe you film it at a distance so you're not getting any close-ups or you get close-ups of like a child and you cut away to maybe adults who can pass for children in certain scenes, especially ones that are like really physically demanding or there's an element of danger to it.

SPEAKER_02:

That's not what they did here. I don't

SPEAKER_04:

think that's what they did here. Nope. Like it's wild, especially like the opening numbers where they're at the orphanage and they're doing these– Really complicated choreographed numbers.

SPEAKER_02:

With like acrobatics and stuff.

SPEAKER_04:

Yes. It's wild. And I'm just so impressed. So impressed and then also so surprised. And again, this could just be really intentional that these two actors just decided to do kind of different things with their lives. Molly only, or I'm sorry, Tony-Anne only has four acting credits.

SPEAKER_02:

You know she has a daughter though. You know what her daughter's name is?

SPEAKER_04:

Molly. Yep. Yeah. I thought that was a really sweet thing. Yeah. So she named her, she has like two kids. The first is named Molly. And so when she was a child, she also did a TV movie called The Children's Story. Then we jump all the way ahead to 2019 where she's in a TV movie called, and I think the punctuation's wrong, Wings of the Wasp. It's like wing, apostrophe S. I don't think that makes sense,

SPEAKER_02:

but. Something about those wasps' wings.

SPEAKER_04:

Wings of the wasps?

SPEAKER_02:

I don't

SPEAKER_04:

know. I don't know. And then also a 2023 film called Called to Duty, not Call of Duty.

SPEAKER_02:

No, different. Called to, not Call of. Correct.

SPEAKER_04:

Yeah. So that is Tony and Gassandi. And then we mentioned the character a couple times, Pepper. Yeah. So she, and also like she was part of the Broadway show of Annie. Really? Yeah. Okay. But by the time they got around to saying, okay, we're gonna make a movie out of this, she had kind of aged out a tiny bit to be Annie.

SPEAKER_02:

Oh, okay.

SPEAKER_04:

So, and she was pretty tall.

SPEAKER_02:

No wonder she was so mean to Annie.

SPEAKER_04:

Yeah. You could tell that she's like an older kid. Yes. Played by Roseanne Sorrentino. And she, so there's like a couple of things. on the horizon, but as far as like completed projects, she only has five acting credits. So here's what's absolutely wild. She goes from Annie and then has like a three decade break. And then in 2019, she also is in Wings of the

SPEAKER_02:

Wasp. We got to figure out this title then.

SPEAKER_04:

Yeah. So she reteams with Tony and Gassandi and She's in a TV series, miniseries, Pandemic TV. So that is obviously 2020. Tells you all about that. A film of 2022 called The Rogerios. And then she also is in Call to Duty. So

SPEAKER_02:

I don't know

SPEAKER_04:

if they remained friends. So I don't know. Maybe they stayed friends. I have no idea why. That seems like more than a coincidence that they both would have taken such an extended break from acting and then come back to be in the same projects.

SPEAKER_02:

Possibly connections were made on Annie and a call was made for... Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04:

So it's... Yeah, quite interesting. But all to say... So impressed by the kids in this film. And also just wanted to say, so I point out these two characters because they actually have like lines in the film, but a couple other names. So I don't think they ever had any lines. They were like referred to as like dancers, but a couple notable people. First, Shawnee Smith. Okay. So I think the only film we've covered of her so far is The Blob.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, I think so.

SPEAKER_04:

So that was with Gary. Go check that one out. But she is a little kid dancer in this film, as well as Amanda Peterson. So we have not done this film yet, but we are certainly going to do it at some point. Can't buy me love.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04:

And she also– and she– so she doesn't have, like, a line in terms of speaking. She does have a moment in the film where they're doing a song. It's Sandy when Sandy comes into the orphanage. And she– there's a couple lines where she's pretty prominent in terms of, like, seeing– belting out a line. And I think she also was up for Annie. It got really close. Like, I mean, they auditioned so many kids and probably the kids who just–

SPEAKER_02:

I mean, the auditions spanned two years, 22 cities, 8,000 interviews, and 70 actresses.

SPEAKER_04:

Yeah. Film synopsis. What do you got? A spunky young orphan is taken in by a rich eccentric, much to the chagrin of the cantankerous woman who runs the orphanage.

SPEAKER_02:

I don't know how eccentric he was, but maybe. But otherwise, yeah, sure.

SPEAKER_04:

I think like... Maybe domineering, intimidating

SPEAKER_02:

more

SPEAKER_04:

so.

SPEAKER_02:

It sounds better than a spunky young orphan is taken in by a rich dude.

SPEAKER_04:

I love all the colorful... I love spunky, cantankerous, chagrin. Whoever

SPEAKER_02:

wrote this? Well done.

SPEAKER_04:

Yeah, it's kind of a fun little

SPEAKER_02:

synopsis. I would have also accepted a movie based on the musical, based on the comic strip featuring Annie.

SPEAKER_04:

Yeah, I mean... It's come up a couple times now as far as when we first saw this movie, what our thoughts are on it as a whole. I'll say this much. I enjoyed this. I wanted to cover this movie. It's kind of wild because it's like when we were still around the holidays and... Mm-hmm. I personally, maybe it's because of what this last week has brought for us, but I really enjoyed watching this movie.

SPEAKER_02:

It was entertaining. I enjoyed it. I mean, am I going to go out of my way to find it and seek it out? Probably not. But I enjoyed it for what it was. I

SPEAKER_04:

feel like I never see it on TV.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah. No, I don't think... I don't think I have either.

SPEAKER_04:

Yeah, I feel like I've never just like been flipping through channels and have seen it, which is a shame.

SPEAKER_02:

But there are like multiple versions of it now. Correct. So it's possible that...

SPEAKER_04:

Probably the Jamie Foxx one is the one, which I've seen that. And that is a fun one too. I really do like that version of it. But this one probably holds just nostalgia for me. Like I was saying, even though I hadn't seen it in forever as we were watching it, some core memories were coming to the surface. It's like, oh yeah, I remember that. So... It's just a really fun film. I don't really understand all the people who had a problem with it when it first came out. I think the performances all around are tremendous. Yeah, they are. Maybe there's a little bit of unevenness in terms of storytelling and pacing, but I don't think you could fault any of the performances.

SPEAKER_02:

Hmm.

SPEAKER_04:

Who'd you say?

SPEAKER_02:

No, no, I was just, I'm thinking, and I can't really think of like a single weak performance in the entire movie. No. Even including the kids. Yes, especially the kids. But yeah, like, so obviously you have like Annie and Molly and Pepper, but there's not like a single supporting cast kid who you're like, why is this kid even here? Like they're all really good.

SPEAKER_04:

Yeah, and I mean, at this point, we've covered a handful of musicals We've done Fame. We've done A Chorus Line. There's probably a couple others I might be forgetting. But this, I think, is the first time we've done a musical that features children. I

SPEAKER_02:

think so, yeah. Like, Fame and Chorus Line are, like... Like, they're all more, like, adult-oriented movies. Yeah, there's a

SPEAKER_04:

couple teens, I think, legit teens in Fame.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04:

But even though they're much older.

SPEAKER_02:

Which is a whole other problem based on that

SPEAKER_04:

movie. Yeah.

UNKNOWN:

So...

SPEAKER_04:

That's why I'm just so impressed. Like the first hour of this film, I was like, holy shit, these kids are incredible. I mean, the first 20 minutes. Yeah. I mean, it made me think, and this is for better or for worse, it made me think of kind of classic cinema and the studio system. And now there were many things wrong with the studio system. And Julie Garland is a prime example of that. Yeah. But when you look at the rigor with which Like, those people were able to perform and just how impressive it was. That's what it brought me back to. Yeah. Was that kind of level of performance. So, in any case, call it action. Hmm. I think I want to kind of stay on that line and just– I think I kind of know what people would say, but I'm curious what kind of comparable musical– People would recommend, like if you were a fan of Annie, what you would say watch next. I think a lot of people would maybe say Newsies. Interesting. Okay. Which is a 90s film, so we're never going to cover that. But

SPEAKER_01:

we can watch it.

SPEAKER_04:

But like just other musicals where there's like a lot of kids that turn out just these incredible performances.

SPEAKER_02:

I was going to ask Lucille Ball versus Carol Burnett. Who do you got?

SPEAKER_04:

That's a great call to action movie. I mean, I...

SPEAKER_02:

I got Burnett.

SPEAKER_04:

I don't want to pit them against each other. Well, I think I have to

SPEAKER_02:

go with... I just did, and I'm going to, and I'm picking Burnett.

SPEAKER_04:

I think you got to go with Lucille Ball. She was such a trailblazer. Oh, my God. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02:

We don't see eye to eye on this.

SPEAKER_04:

I mean, I don't know if this marriage is going to last, if that's the case. So... If you want to get in touch with us, we'd love to hear from you. You can reach out through Facebook, Instagram, or Axe. The handle is the same for all three. It is at 80s Montage Pod and 80s is 80S. Sneak peek.

SPEAKER_02:

What do we got?

SPEAKER_04:

Now, not deliberately so. It just hasn't really come up, but I haven't really been informing you ahead of time about any of the films we're doing so far this season. Not at all. Sorry. So you are totally in the dark. It's more

SPEAKER_02:

fun this way.

SPEAKER_04:

Okay.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah. I'm under no pressure to guess the film that I have no idea is coming.

SPEAKER_04:

I'm trying to think of a clue.

SPEAKER_02:

See, now all the pressure is on you to think of a clue.

SPEAKER_04:

Yeah. No, it is a lot of pressure.

SPEAKER_02:

I know. I

SPEAKER_04:

can't do the accent, even though I'm from the Midwest, so it's not too far away. Okay.

SPEAKER_02:

There's an accent involved. Okay. Yes. Okay.

SPEAKER_04:

There is an accent involved. And also, there is a Shakespeare connection.

SPEAKER_02:

Jesus. What? An accent and Shakespeare connection. I got nothing. I'm

SPEAKER_04:

trying to think of another clue that would... Beer? Beer, Shakespeare, accent.

UNKNOWN:

No.

SPEAKER_02:

Wait, we're not doing strange brew, are we? Yes, we

SPEAKER_04:

are.

SPEAKER_02:

The beer was the giveaway. I

SPEAKER_04:

figured,

SPEAKER_02:

I figured. An accent, Canadian accent, really, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's amazing. And then the Shakespearean thing is... It's

SPEAKER_04:

based off Hamlet. It is based off Hamlet. I'm not even joking about that.

SPEAKER_02:

That's amazing. I had no idea. I honestly never knew that.

SPEAKER_04:

So that will be next up. And in the meantime, just thank you to everyone. We hope you are all safe and well out there. Hopefully you are having a great beginning to your 2025. And thank you with all the choices out there that you are tuning into us. We really appreciate it. We will talk to you again in two weeks time.