'80s Movie Montage
Breaking down our favorite decade of flicks. Hosted by Anna Keizer and Derek Dehanke.
'80s Movie Montage
After Hours
With special guests Lisa and Dustin Morrow of The Long Rewind podcast, Anna and Derek chat about illusions of reality, why '80s SoHo is the perfect setting to feel trapped, and much more during their discussion of Martin Scorsese's After Hours (1985).
Connect with '80s Movie Montage on Facebook, Bluesky or Instagram! It's the same handle for all three... @80smontagepod.
Anna Keizer and Derek Dehanke are the co-hosts of ‘80s Movie Montage. The idea for the podcast came when they realized just how much they talk – a lot – when watching films from their favorite cinematic era. Their wedding theme was “a light nod to the ‘80s,” so there’s that, too. Both hail from the Midwest but have called Los Angeles home for several years now. Anna is a writer who received her B.A. in Film/Video from Columbia College Chicago and M.A. in Film Studies from Chapman University. Her dark comedy short She Had It Coming was an Official Selection of 25 film festivals with several awards won for it among them. Derek is an attorney who also likes movies. It is a point of pride that most of their podcast episodes are longer than the movies they cover.
Learn more about the hosts of The Long Rewind!
Dustin Morrow is an Emmy-winning filmmaker, bestselling author, programmer, podcaster and educator. He is a tenured Professor in the School of Film at Portland State University in Portland, Oregon, where he teaches courses in digital cinema production and film studies. He previously taught at Temple University, Monmouth College and the University of Iowa. Before re-entering academia, Morrow was an editor and director of short-form projects and series television in Los Angeles, creating work for MTV, the Discovery Channel, FoxSports, Sony Pictures and many others. Learn more about his work at www.dustinmorrow.com.
Lisa Morrow has a Masters in Library Science from Simmons College and a BA in English and Women’s Studies from Bucknell University. She has several years of experience working in publishing and libraries. Lisa’s passions include: reading, writing, accessibility, user experience and usability, information architecture, and instructional technology. Lisa also finds etymology fascinating and loves British costume dramas and scifi.
where are those plaster of paris paperweights anyway i mean that's what i came down here for in the first place well that's not entirely true i came to see you but where are the paperweights that's what i want to see now what's the matter i said i want to see a plaster of paris bagel and cream cheese paperweight now cough it up
SPEAKER_01:right now
SPEAKER_00:yes right now
SPEAKER_01:They're in Kiki's bedroom.
SPEAKER_00:Get them. Because as we sit here chatting, there are important papers flying rampant around my apartment because I don't have anything to hold them down with.
SPEAKER_05:Hello and welcome to 80s Movie Montage. This is Derek.
SPEAKER_04:And this is Anna.
SPEAKER_05:And that was Griffin Dunn as Paul Hackett demanding paperweights from Rosanna Arquette as Marcy in 1985's After Hours.
SPEAKER_04:After Hours.
SPEAKER_05:After Hours.
SPEAKER_04:We're just going to do our little dive as we do into the main players. It's
SPEAKER_05:what we've done, what we had done for a very long time. And
SPEAKER_04:we will continue to do
SPEAKER_05:it. And then we did something slightly different. And now we're doing it again for this episode. Maybe not more of them. Who knows? We'll see. But for right now, this is what we're doing.
SPEAKER_04:This is what we're doing. All right. Let's jump in. So you mentioned 1985. I did. And... Interesting. Okay, so I did like a little bit of a dive in terms of the writing on this. The credited writer is Joseph Minion.
SPEAKER_05:Okay.
SPEAKER_04:His first feature credit, because according to like what I was researching, like this was originally written as like a college project.
SPEAKER_05:Do you know what grade he got on it?
SPEAKER_04:I don't.
SPEAKER_05:He got an A.
SPEAKER_04:Did you actually read that? Yes. Okay. All right. Good job, Joseph. And it's funny because I think before... Well, you tell me. Before you read that, while we were watching it, you were saying that it kind of feels... And I don't think you meant this as a slight. I think this is very normal for a younger writer to kind of have a story like this. You're like, this does feel like... a college student wrote this I don't think you meant that in a negative way per se but
SPEAKER_05:no I I think I I said something like this feels like uh like the dialogue and the the situations feel had like a student film feel to them yeah
SPEAKER_04:and I actually have seen a lot of student films where it is this kind of like and we bring this up with Lisa and Dustin like kind of this like odyssey yeah type of story
SPEAKER_05:well it's not it just has a different feel than like a like wide release you see it in like all the platforms or in theater there's a different vibe or a different like feel to the situations and the way that the characters talk and it just had that kind of vibe to it
SPEAKER_04:yeah totally agree and among some of his other credits i have all films for him vampires kiss motorama
SPEAKER_05:wait is it like is it just saying that vampires do kiss Or is it like...
SPEAKER_04:It's possessive. So like the vampire. Sorry.
SPEAKER_05:Because that could be a very different movie.
SPEAKER_04:That's a great clarification. Yes. It's like possessive. So it's like the vampire's kiss. The is not part of the title, but like...
SPEAKER_05:Yeah.
SPEAKER_04:I never thought about whether they do... A kiss from a vampire.
SPEAKER_05:I guess they do. Yeah. It starts that way.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah. Yeah.
SPEAKER_05:Awesome.
SPEAKER_04:Motorama, On the Run, Trafficking, and The Collection. Okay.
UNKNOWN:Yeah.
SPEAKER_04:So... Also reading this, and this is very common, that sometimes the director, oftentimes probably the director, will do a little polish. They may not be credited for it, but they'll put their own little spin on it. And that's exactly what also happened. Who was the
SPEAKER_05:director on this?
SPEAKER_04:Just some rando. Yeah, that happens. Martin Scorsese.
SPEAKER_05:Oh.
SPEAKER_04:So it has been a while since we've actually covered a Scorsese film. The last time and the first time. So this is only the second time. Yeah, I was going to say. That we've covered. Scorsese film was Raging Bull.
SPEAKER_05:Yeah.
SPEAKER_04:So go check that one out. That was, I believe, like really early. That might have even been the first episode of season two. So go check that one out. And yeah, again, a lot of this came up with Lisa and Dustin in terms of, you know, I really do appreciate his work. He, for me personally, is not necessarily one of my top directors. That is not about me. Obviously, the quality of his work, just the type of stories that I tend to gravitate toward. But I do love the opportunity to get to cover his work again, especially something that, to me, feels very outside of what I kind of think of when I think of his work.
SPEAKER_05:There's an intensity to a lot of what he makes. where I may really enjoy the movie, but sometimes there are varying degrees of being rewatchable. And we talk about that with this movie later on. And because of that intensity, I feel like sometimes I miss things and then I watch them again and I get more out of it. But some of the movies are so intense. I'm like, that was cool. I'm probably not going to watch it again. A
SPEAKER_04:lot of his films, I can't watch the ends because they culminate in such a horrible ending for a lot of the characters, even if maybe the characters deserve those endings. And I was just like, yeah, I can't do it.
SPEAKER_05:Cape Fear, I know is a remake, right? Yeah. But it's just, it's uncomfortable the whole movie.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah. Or, like, you know, one of my absolute favorite openings to his films, like, I love the opening sequence of Goodfellas. Oh, yeah. With the young, I mean, it is not the young Ray Liotta, but the actor who plays the young version of the character. Like, I love seeing that set up to the story. And, but yeah, it just, a lot of his films end very... Very darkly. They do. I
SPEAKER_05:mean, the other New York Scorsese movie that comes to mind that I really enjoy would be the Gangs of New York movie. Right. And ironically, I don't think there's a single gang in After Hours. Sorry, I just got it back. Got us back. How do you like that?
SPEAKER_04:Good job. Yeah, so we probably could just riff on how we feel about his work for the entire episode. Also, I
SPEAKER_05:apologize in advance because I always call him Scorsese, and I know that it's supposed to be Scorsese.
SPEAKER_04:Ah, you know, Anna Anna people do. Well, you feel a certain... I do have a certain feeling about
SPEAKER_01:it. I don't know if that's the best example.
SPEAKER_04:So, I mean, there... In fact, I was... Oh, yeah. Yeah. I appreciate so much his– him wanting to bring more awareness to general film history and how much time and effort and I presume financial resources he's put behind wanting people to stay informed of cinema history and preservation of film. I just love when he
SPEAKER_05:roasts Marvel.
SPEAKER_04:Sure. That too. That too. Although, you know what– There's enough room for everybody. There should be. That's kind of my general through line. It's cool if you like Marvel. It's cool if you love...
SPEAKER_05:I think even Disney would agree that there's enough room for everybody as long as it's all us.
SPEAKER_04:So is filmography. Main streets, taxi driver... Like I said, we covered Raging Bull, for which he got a Best Director. And this is kind of fun. Like, I do remember. I'm getting ahead of myself. But I do remember when he finally, finally won and watching that Oscar ceremony. But his first Oscar nom for Best Director was Raging Bull. King of Comedy, which we could do. Color of Money. My guess is we'd probably do that one first whenever he comes up again.
SPEAKER_05:Have you ever seen The Hustler from start to finish? It is a kind of soul-crushing movie. Oh, yeah. It's an interesting—you know what? That's what I want to make a sequel of. But there's so many characters where that makes sense, where you'd want to
SPEAKER_04:see— Sure. What happens to them down the road decades later. Yeah, absolutely. I don't think I remembered this. Maybe I put this down the last time we talked about him, that he actually did direct. He did a couple Michael Jackson videos, and Bad was one of them.
SPEAKER_05:Okay.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah.
UNKNOWN:Yeah.
SPEAKER_04:Kind of fun.
SPEAKER_05:It's very random to know that, like, Michael Jackson bad music video directed by Martin Scorsese.
SPEAKER_04:Right? I mean, he also does, like, high-profile commercials even to this day. Yes. Yeah, he does. So, you know, it's not above it. He gets his next Best Director nomination for The Last Temptation of Christ. He gets, I mean, he, you know, like I mentioned previously, I'm sure did a little work on this script and he's gone to other Oscar noms for best. I think it's usually best adapted screenplay. So he gets best adapted for Goodfellas and again gets his next best best director Oscar nom. He gets his next best adapted screenplay for The Age of Innocence. He does Casino. That in particular, that's the one, right? That's the one where
SPEAKER_05:Joe Pesci and his brother are brutally killed. And I think Pesci is held while he has to watch his brother beaten to death with a baseball bat and thrown into a grave in a field. Yep. Yeah, that's it.
SPEAKER_04:That's it. He gets another Best Director Oscar nom for, you mentioned, The Gangs of New York.
SPEAKER_05:That's one of my, it might be my favorite movie of his.
SPEAKER_04:yeah that's very much up there for me as well i remember going to the theater this is the next film coming up going to the theater to watch the aviator and oh yeah he gets another best uh director oscar nom for that and i truly just adored that film for the way that like i think that film encapsulates his love for cinema
SPEAKER_05:kate blanchett as katherine hepburn Pretty amazing. Amazing performance.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, and I remember when the casting was put out for that film, and I had nothing against her at all. I just adore Katharine Hepburn so much that I didn't think anybody could even touch, like, do that performance justice, and she absolutely did. In fact, I think she got an Oscar for that role. So... She she was outstanding and it was just so fun. So that film is so the storyline is tragic because we're talking about Howard Hughes and what came of him and that in its own way. Like, that's why it's so hard to watch the end of Scorsese films because they're so sad.
SPEAKER_01:But
SPEAKER_04:even in their own way, even it has nothing to do with mobsters and getting getting whacked. But seeing that. his portrayal of early Hollywood and especially the way that he uses color to indicate different periods in Hollywood history is just like, oh, chef's kiss. Love it. So finally, finally, I mean, this is another film. I just, I don't even know if I can watch the beginning of it because the whole thing start to finish is just so dark. The Departed. The Departed is
SPEAKER_05:like, it doesn't hit me the same way that it hits you. Like I could probably watch it. I mean, Jack Nicholson is... Like awful. And I mean that in the best possible way.
SPEAKER_04:Right.
SPEAKER_05:Because he's just he's such a loathsome character.
SPEAKER_04:Yes.
SPEAKER_05:But that's a great movie. And there are amazing interactions between Alec Baldwin and Mark Wahlberg on the on the.
SPEAKER_04:No, everybody, even though, look, I made it real clear. I don't. I don't really love Mark Wahlberg as an actor, but I do think everybody was on the top of their game. Of course, that speaks to the direction of that film. Yeah. What
SPEAKER_05:better in this than him in The Happening where he's just like, it's the grass.
SPEAKER_04:I mean, I remember watching that Oscar ceremony and I felt so bad for... That's why I'm like, I think there's a little bit of... there is a little bit of knowledge ahead of time of who's going to win what. Because who comes out to present Scorsese with his Oscar? It's Coppola, Spielberg, and Lucas. And I'm like, come on. We know who's winning this Oscar if you three are coming out to present it. So it was like, oh my god, that's amazing. But at the same time, I was like, ah, I think you guys know what's happening right now. He directs Shutter Island. He gets another best director Oscar nom as well as best pitcher for Hugo he gets more more Oscar noms on the way he gets best director and again best pitcher for the Wolf of Wall Street he gets another best director nom as well as best pitcher for the Irishman and then most recently yet again another best director, Oscar nom, and best pitcher for Killers of the Flower Moon.
SPEAKER_05:I'd like to nominate the Irishman for potentially the worst use of generative AI in a performance ever.
SPEAKER_04:Look, from the jump, every time they've tried to make Robert De Niro... The only time that his age, I think, was appropriately cast was when he was the younger Vito Corleone in The Godfather Part II. That made sense. But even in Goodfellas, I think he's introduced as a 28-year-old. I was like, no, no, he's not. He's not a 28-year-old.
SPEAKER_05:But there's that scene in The Irishman where I was just so... I was confused throughout the entire movie of how old he was supposed to be. But then when he's kicking someone out in the street, I'm like... It looks like– and it's fine. It just looks like an older guy trying to kick the shit out of someone. Just
SPEAKER_04:tell stories where he could be the age that he is. It
SPEAKER_05:was all very strange.
SPEAKER_04:It was a little strange. Okay. Moving on to cinematography. Yes. We have talked– actually, very recently we've talked about Michael Ballhaus who passed in 2017. What a career. What a career this guy had. We talked about him not too long ago. And honestly, there are other opportunities for us to bring him up. So he was a German DP, started out in German entertainment. And some of his credits include the marriage of Maria Braun. Maybe we'll talk about him when we cover The Color of Money because he was the DP on that film. I'm sure we will. We talked about him. So I'm not going in chronological order, but we talked about him probably first when we covered Broadcast News.
SPEAKER_05:OK.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah. So he got and he got a Best Cinematography Oscar nom for that one. He I mean, he worked with Scorsese quite a bit. He was the DP on The Last Temptation of Christ. He did Dirty Rotten Scoundrels. Oh, Mo. Most recently, we have talked about him for Working Girl. Okay. That was just earlier this year. So go check that one out. We can talk about him again for the fabulous Baker Boys. Got another Oscar nom for that one. He was the DP on Goodfellas as well as Postcards from the Edge. What about Bob? This one, I brought this up. When we were talking about Working Girl, I don't know why they did this, but it used to be called Bram Stoker's Dracula, and now they're just calling it Dracula per IMDb.
SPEAKER_05:That's interesting because I feel like the Keanu Reeves Dracula, Gary Oldman Dracula, the title was Bram Stoker's Dracula. Correct. There are other Draculas that are just Dracula or maybe Dracula with various colons. Sure. In more descriptive terms. But that one will always be for me. I
SPEAKER_04:don't know why the change was made. Something must have happened with like, I don't know, copyright. I don't know. I have no idea. But I'm always going to just call it Bram Stoker's Dracula. Yeah. So there you go. Which is interesting because that was directed by Coppola. So this guy, he worked with like a lot of. Big time directors. He did shoot The Age of Innocence. He did Quiz Show, Outbreak, Air Force One, Primary Colors, The Legend of Bagger Vance. He got another Oscar nom, Best Cinematography for The Gangs of New York, Something's Gotta Give, and then among some of his final projects, The Departed. Okay. So, okay. Moving on. A lot of these... Yeah, I'm going to say most of these people, very familiar names. Next up for music, we have Howard Shore. We have brought him up a number of times. So some in the most unexpected ways.
SPEAKER_05:Yes, he pops up when you least expect him to.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah. So some of the credits, I guess that often is the case with composers. I have all films. Worked a lot with Cronenberg. He did the music for, well, he did the music for The Brood, Scanners, Videodrome, Fire with Fire. Yes. Was that the first time?
SPEAKER_05:That was the first surprise where his name popped up and I'm like, wait. Really? That's amazing.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah,
SPEAKER_05:yeah. And the music was something that stood out in that movie.
SPEAKER_04:Oh, 100%. I mean, that movie really surprised me.
SPEAKER_05:Yes, it did.
SPEAKER_04:I really enjoyed that film. It's
SPEAKER_05:like, what if an exaggerated teen romance movie turned into Mission Impossible? Yeah.
SPEAKER_04:No, that's a very accurate way to put it. So he also did The Fly, right?
SPEAKER_05:Okay.
SPEAKER_04:So, I mean, this guy goes all over the place, swings all over the place genre-wise. He did Big. So, I mean, my goodness, Fire with Fire, like you said, is kind of like a teen romance turned action thriller. He does horror. He does big-hearted comedy. So we've covered all three of those films. He did Dead Ringers, She-Devil. The Silence of the Lambs. Talk about a swing. Single White Female, Mrs. Doubtfire, Philadelphia, Ed Wood, Seven. That's a film I don't think I can watch again either.
SPEAKER_05:Seven? Yeah. Seven, like the whole damn movie is kind of tough to watch. Yeah.
SPEAKER_04:Start to finish. I don't
SPEAKER_05:even care about what's in the box. I know what's in the box at this point. And I don't care because I'm not even making it to that point.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah. It's, again, a great film. I remember my first screening of it and being kind of blown away. But tough film to get through. It is. It
SPEAKER_05:is,
SPEAKER_04:yeah. He also, then he, I mean, again, these like swings from genre to genre. He does that thing you do, The Game. Great film.
SPEAKER_05:It
SPEAKER_04:is. Dogma. I love that
SPEAKER_05:movie. Yeah. I think it was just re-released on disc because Kevin Smith got the rights back from the Weinstein Company. Which is just wild to think about. Yeah. Not having the rights to your own film. Yeah.
SPEAKER_04:Finally, we get into his Oscar era. Okay. He wins Best Original Score for The Lord of the Rings Fellowship of the Wing. Ring? The Wing. Fellowship of the Ring. He also does The Lord of the Rings Two Towers. He scores Gings of New York. He wins again for The Lord of the Rings The Return of the King.
SPEAKER_05:That won like everything. Return of the King. Yeah, it did. Yeah.
SPEAKER_04:He won Best He did score the Aviator, A History of Violence. He does reteam with Scorsese again for The Departed. He worked with Viggo Mortensen a lot. He sure did.
SPEAKER_05:Probably not really directly, but yeah.
SPEAKER_04:Who knows? Maybe they became friends. We don't know.
SPEAKER_05:Anything's possible.
SPEAKER_04:He gets another Best Original Score nomination for Hugo. He does all the Hobbit films, which could have just been one movie. All of
SPEAKER_05:the Hobbit films, which should have been one Hobbit film.
SPEAKER_04:One Hobbit film. He does Spotlight and Pale Blue Eye.
SPEAKER_05:Oh, he did another Viggo Mortensen one called Eastern Promises, which was interesting when it came out because it looked like it was going to be similar to A History of Violence, but it could not have been more different.
SPEAKER_04:Okay. Yeah. Moving on to film editing. She came up quite a bit when we were talking with Lisa and Dustin Thelma Schoonmaker. So this woman, a powerhouse in her own right as an editor, longtime collaborator with Scorsese. And the reason why we do this podcast the way that we do is because– Look, there are so many other people we could talk about with any film in terms of what they contribute to it. But I try to bring up some of the other main players outside of just the actors and director because...
SPEAKER_05:We all know about them just fine.
SPEAKER_04:We all know about them. And honestly, it really, if I may, irks me. quite a bit we're like oh my god the director's vision with cinematography or the director's vision with the editing of course there's collaboration and maybe sometimes the director does have a very heavy hand in those aspects of making a film but I feel like it does a real disservice to the other people who actually are in those roles and contribute their talent and expertise to those parts of the craft
SPEAKER_05:it's tough because like I I have a an overwhelming task that they have to do. And they get very
SPEAKER_04:little. And also depending on the director.
SPEAKER_05:Yeah, and they get very little recognition. And I think that's in part because people just have no real understanding of what goes into it.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, no, I would agree with that. I mean, I think a lot of people, and I get it, you know, Dustin even said it's the invisible craft if you're doing it well.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah.
SPEAKER_04:And that's why a lot of people don't think of the editor or really the other, again, main players in a film.
SPEAKER_05:I mean, this editor, she must be a fucking magician because she did work on The Irishman.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah.
SPEAKER_05:She had to make it, imagine how much worse it would have been.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah. And I mean, again, like some filmmakers, you know, like Hitchcock was notorious for doing such astute work on like the storyboards having a very clear vision that there wasn't a lot of swaying from the way he wanted a film to look from from so they
SPEAKER_05:would kind of follow those like yeah blueprints or instructions
SPEAKER_04:yeah okay he knew exactly what he wanted a film to look like shot to shot and other filmmakers like I know Clint Eastwood is I don't know if I'd say infamous but I think he's kind of like a to to take guy like he's kind of like okay got it and then you have other filmmakers um who were or are notorious for shot after shot after shot you know where like yes that that means the editor is going through so much footage to find try to find and put together the story
SPEAKER_05:a funny story related to that but not related to this movie was i realized recently that the gary oldman moment in um oh what was what is that uh with natalie portman
SPEAKER_04:Gary Oldman and Natalie Portman.
SPEAKER_05:Where she's just a kid. Oh,
SPEAKER_04:the professional?
SPEAKER_05:Yes. The moment when he says everyone, when he screams it, that was something where they were shooting the scene over and over again. And someone asked him, like, go get everyone. And his cop. associate says who and he just like screams at this like over the top exaggerated everyone he did that as a joke because he was just doing so many takes he even told the sound guy like hey i'm gonna be really loud this time and then the director was like yeah i like that one let's put it in
SPEAKER_04:oh yeah sometimes you have
SPEAKER_05:yeah so many that he's like no this one's good
SPEAKER_04:well getting back to felma
SPEAKER_05:yeah
SPEAKER_04:uh so What a career she has had. We'll go through, I mean, so many Oscar nominations and wins. She gets her first editing Oscar nom for Woodstock. She, still very early in her career, she wins for Raging Bull. She cuts The King of Comedy, as well as The Color of Money, as well as The Last Temptation of Christ. So you're seeing- So most of Scorsese's- Yeah, yeah, most of his work. She gets another Oscar nom for Goodfellas. She cuts The Age of Innocence- As well as Casino. She gets her next Oscar nom for The Gangs of New York. She gets back-to-back wins. She wins for The Aviator and she wins for The Departed. Wow. She cuts Shutter Island. She gets another nom for Hugo. She cuts The Wolf of Wall Street. And then her last two as of now Oscar nominations were for The Irishman and Killers of the Flower Moon. I gotta say though and I you know I went a little hard and I mean we don't even cover these movies for the for this podcast but I know I've brought up like Oppenheimer which yeah great film I feel like between Nolan and Scorsese though maybe maybe a little little more conservative in terms of the cuts of your film ultimately not every film needs to be a three-hour film so I'm just gonna leave it at that not to take away from anybody's accomplishments here. Oppenheimer,
SPEAKER_05:I mean, it did obviously very well. It won Best Picture, right?
SPEAKER_02:Yes.
SPEAKER_05:Yeah. I mean, and I think that's deserved, but the opening of it, because it was such a long movie, the opening felt particularly challenging in terms of trying to keep up with where things were going and what I'm trying to follow. It was certainly no tenet.
SPEAKER_04:it's a fabulous it's a fabulous film all these films are but at the same time you know I think that maybe Nolan and Scorsese have both come to I mean and Nolan much earlier in his career honestly he's much younger but they could benefit maybe again from just a little bit
SPEAKER_05:movies generally are like a little bit longer runtime than than they used to be i feel like there is like a runtime creep coming up on us and i feel i feel in my bones that a movie that's called the odyssey is probably not going to have a short yeah that might be might might have an intermission i don't know
SPEAKER_04:intermissions. You know what? Bring back an intermission and I'm down for a three hour movie.
SPEAKER_05:It's so difficult just to get everyone in there to begin with. Can you imagine everyone in
SPEAKER_04:like an
SPEAKER_05:AMC getting out? It would be a mess.
SPEAKER_04:Alright. Stars of this movie. Griffin Dunn. So he plays Paul Hackett. And real quick, I just wanted to say this kind of fun little tidbit. He also also has an Oscar nomination. It's for Best Short Film Live Action. That was called The Duke of Groove. Cool. Cool. So, yes, he is. The person, the character, I should say, that leads and grounds this film, so to speak, it is. was very fun to see him again because we have not seen him since we did American Werewolf in London. Man, he was so great in that film. Love that film so much.
SPEAKER_05:Very obvious reference to that movie when he's trying to get on a subway in After Hours and he hops the turnstile, the cop gets him to leave, and the cop kind of mutters as he's running away, must be a full moon tonight.
SPEAKER_04:That was a great catch. That was a great catch on your end.
SPEAKER_05:I'm glad they did that. That was fun.
UNKNOWN:Yeah.
SPEAKER_04:And it's interesting because this film is just four years past American Werewolf in London. He looks much older. I mean, maybe it was just the way that they styled him to look like a college student in Werewolf. There's a lot
SPEAKER_05:going on in that with like, yeah.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah. And then he's mostly dead and rotting for most of the film. That's
SPEAKER_05:what
SPEAKER_04:I meant, yeah. But he does look much older in this movie to me. And yeah, I mean, I know that he... Look, he's he's actually I mean, I have the filmography to show. He has, of course, done a ton more acting. I know he's done a lot behind the scenes. Like he has also forged a career for himself as a director. So he's he's not in front of the camera a ton. It would have been interesting to see more like he is the star of this film. And it's a Scorsese film. So it's interesting that it didn't necessarily translate into this kicking off a more high-profile acting career for him, if I may say.
SPEAKER_05:Well, I mean, we talk a little bit about the commercial success of After Hours. And although his performance was incredible in this movie, the fact that it didn't– Yeah, that's
SPEAKER_04:a really good point. My Girl, Straight Talk, Naked in New York, Quiz Show, 40 Days and 40 Nights. He is on the TV series Trust Me. He was in the film Dallas Buyers Club.
SPEAKER_05:Interesting.
SPEAKER_04:Okay. He also does the TV series House of Lies, the film Fugly! Exclamation point. All
SPEAKER_01:right.
SPEAKER_04:He does the show I Love Dick. Who was he in Oceans 8? We went to that movie. I don't remember who he was in that. Not sure. He was in The French Dispatch, more TV work, Goliath, This Is Us. And most recently, we saw him in Only Murders in the Building. That's right.
SPEAKER_05:He
SPEAKER_04:was really good in that. He was really good in that. Yeah. I actually wish we had seen more of that character in that season of the show. Yeah. Yeah. Liked that a lot. And then he's just done a ton of like, besides these longer stints on different shows, he's done a lot of like one-offs, two-offs on different shows. series yeah okay moving on to Rosanna Arquette so she plays Marcy she is I guess you would maybe say the love interest in this film for him initially at least
SPEAKER_05:yeah yeah she I mean she gets the ball rolling
SPEAKER_04:she gets the ball rolling that's a great way to put it and we have covered her as well although it's been a minute uh Still very much working to this day. And she has, I have more films for her than TV, but her very first credit was a TV movie called Having Babies 2.
SPEAKER_05:Oh,
SPEAKER_04:she just went straight to the sequel? As in like part two.
SPEAKER_05:Yeah.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah. Okay. So she's in that. She was in the film More American Graffiti. Gorp. Wait, what? Yeah, Gorp. Gorp? Not the world according to Garp. Gorp. But just Gorp. Okay. All right. She was in a 1985 film called The Aviator. So that was kind of fun to come across. We covered her. when we did Desperately Seeking Susan with Sarah. So go check that one out. And we keep saying we're going to do this film at some point. She was in Silverado. Maybe next year. Maybe next year. Flight of the Intruder. Though it's a small role, she's very memorable in Pulp Fiction.
SPEAKER_05:Yeah, it's almost like what if Marcy doesn't, sorry, spoilers, doesn't die in After Hours? That would
SPEAKER_04:be her. God, that's a great... connection there i do feel like that could be marcy yeah i wonder what her character's name is in pulp fiction uh i can almost see tarantino calling her marcy like i almost could anyway um so she's in buffalo 66 hell's kitchen the movie not the tv she's not she's not she's not an aspiring chef
SPEAKER_05:her name in a pulp fiction by the way was jody ah darn
SPEAKER_04:yeah All right. She was in The Little Nine Yards, Kids in America. And then here we go. So much TV work. She was on the show The L Word, What About Brian, Ray Donovan, Sideswiped, a couple more films, Kill Your Friends. Okay. Yeah. Here's, okay, how am I going to say it? Here's Yanni. Is that just how it is? Here's Yanni. Exclamation point. And lots of TV appearances as well.
SPEAKER_05:She's in what I think is my least favorite title for a movie of all time, Asthma.
UNKNOWN:Asthma!
SPEAKER_05:Who could forget 2014's Asthma?
SPEAKER_04:How could you? How could you? So now in terms of... We're going a little out of order here. in terms of who Paul comes across.
SPEAKER_05:I think that's fair because the cast... Yeah, because if we just went into the order on IMDb, I think it's fair that we deviate from that a little bit.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, I sometimes make up my own rules in terms of who we cover in what order, but... Who do
SPEAKER_05:you got next, Linda? I have
SPEAKER_04:June. Okay. Played by Verna Bloom. So she's the older woman. Ah, she's
SPEAKER_05:at the end. She's at the very end. Okay.
SPEAKER_04:Yes. So she has passed. She passed in 2019. Such an interesting character. I mean, like, look, all these characters are interesting in this film. She... Is the woman so for people who may not know this film like closely, she is the older woman at the very end where Paul goes like he gets an invitation, so to speak, to come back to this bar that he was at earlier.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah.
SPEAKER_04:And when he comes in, nobody is there. It's kind of interesting, again, very dreamlike quality because he gets this invitation to some event that's happening at the bar, but then nobody's there. Except for June. And the bartender says, like, oh, slow night.
SPEAKER_05:Yeah, he doesn't really have a great answer for why. No. No, he
SPEAKER_04:doesn't. And then when... It
SPEAKER_05:is the same bar that he's at. Yes. It's like the Mohawk thing. Where Kiki was. Bad Brain. Yeah.
SPEAKER_04:And... And he asks about the woman in the corner and he's like, oh, she's just always here. Like, really dismissive almost. Because she lives
SPEAKER_05:underneath the place.
SPEAKER_04:She does. She does. We don't know that yet, though. So it kind of comes across, at least to me, as like a little bit of a dig that this woman's just always hanging out there and she doesn't really engage with anybody. Yeah. Paul does engage with her and they dance a little bit. And it's just a really interesting interaction. And then she gets a little scary because when they two go downstairs and she initially is trying to help him escape from the mob who thinks that he's this burglar. She starts, you know, plastering him and then she doesn't let him out. And she keeps saying, no, we need to make sure you're safe,
SPEAKER_05:which is honestly even scarier. And then she like covers up where his mouth would be. Yes. That's what I'm like, panic.
SPEAKER_04:Panic. Yes. So as far as her career, I have all films. Although she did do a lot of TV work in terms of, again, one-offs and two-offs. But we have medium cool. So I believe she's, would it be the Chancellor's Wife in National Lampoon's Animal House?
SPEAKER_05:That's my guess.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah.
SPEAKER_05:Yeah.
SPEAKER_04:She was also in The Journey of Nandi Gyan. And she also was in The Last Temptation of Christ. So she re-teams. Yeah. She
SPEAKER_05:was Mary, Mother of Jesus. So-
SPEAKER_04:she was jesus's mom yeah there you go yeah uh okay so moving on to do i have them yeah i should just talk about them together i
SPEAKER_05:think so
SPEAKER_04:but cheech and chong um so tommy chong and this is gonna be hard because i have them in several places and cheech marin so they play respectively pepe and and neil so these are the guys who actually are the burglars who are going through this neighborhood what did they say um the number like it's not all in one night it's but they have been like hitting
SPEAKER_05:places
SPEAKER_04:yeah they've been just hitting a lot of places in a very short time frame not really that smart to be honest yeah uh but Obviously, they are very well-known and a very different part of the entertainment industry with their comedies. They pair up very frequently. So first I'll go through Tommy Chong's filmography, Up in Smoke.
SPEAKER_05:Very well-known. I really made a mistake watching that shortly after having a surgery where they had to cut into my abdomen because I was trying to not laugh
SPEAKER_04:and
SPEAKER_05:yet laughing a lot.
SPEAKER_04:Sure. Yeah. We have Cheech and Chong's next movie, Still Smokin'. So there's... We can cover
SPEAKER_05:that one.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, there's a little bit of a through line.
SPEAKER_05:I love his... He's casting Up in Smoke as just man. Oh, really? Because every single time Cheech talks to him, he's just like, hey, man.
SPEAKER_04:Oh, sure. He was in National Lampoon Senior Trip, Half Baked. More recently, I think it's already been canceled, though, he was on That 90s Show.
SPEAKER_01:Mm-hmm.
SPEAKER_04:And lots of TV appearances. And then as far as Cheech Marin, actually, he's, I think– how do I want to put this? Like, more so moved himself into the acting world. Yeah. He has a little bit more of an extensive filmography, again, paired up with– tommy chong much earlier in their career so he too isn't up in smoke he also of course is in cheech and chong's next movie uh still smoking you were talking about this film last night born in east la i
SPEAKER_05:don't yeah i i go back and forth on whether it would be a good idea to cover it because it it will probably be like funny and yet incredibly depressing seeing what transpires. I know that there's a lot of stuff that has not aged well just in other respects of the movie, but it is, yeah, I did laugh a lot when I first saw that movie.
SPEAKER_04:He was in Ghostbusters 2, the TV series The Golden Palace, From Dusk Till Dawn, Tin Cup. This is so fun to me that he is, I think he's maybe the grandpa in Spy Kids, maybe? Yeah. Okay. more voice work for the TV show Primos and just a ton of general TV work, both for voice and just in front of the camera as well.
SPEAKER_05:I'm so sorry. Did you did you mention Desperado?
SPEAKER_04:Oh, my gosh, I didn't. I'm sorry.
SPEAKER_05:That's OK. I always find that interesting because that was like this big like Hollywood hit that was the sequel to El Mariachi.
SPEAKER_04:Oh, yeah.
SPEAKER_05:Yeah.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah. OK, moving on to Kiki. So Kiki is Marcy's roommate, I guess. Although they do... I don't know. They have a weird relationship. Everybody has a weird relationship in this film. It's
SPEAKER_05:weird. There's a lot of weird stuff. But I think we can roll with that, them being roommates. Sure.
SPEAKER_04:And played by Linda Fiorentino. And she definitely has a type of character that she plays in a lot of her films. She is definitely kind of a... maybe rough around the edges, tough, capable, maybe aloof type of character. She's
SPEAKER_05:often naked.
SPEAKER_04:Yes, that too.
SPEAKER_05:She is in this.
SPEAKER_04:She is in this. And I think perhaps she might be retired from acting because her last credit's 2009. But some films that at the time that they came out were... huge successes and maybe even infamous i will say in this instance um not vision vision quest but she is in that and we could cover that but namely i'm talking about both the last seduction and jade
SPEAKER_05:yeah those the i've never seen either of those and yet i'm
SPEAKER_04:aware of them oh they're I mean, they were very much of their time. I mean, the early 90s. Yeah. A ton of sexual thrillers. Yeah. People. Erotic thrillers.
SPEAKER_05:It was a whole thing. It
SPEAKER_04:was a whole thing. And we can't do justice to it in this podcast, but I do highly recommend listening to You Must Remember This because the host of that podcast. podcast series. She did a whole season? A two-part season. Wow. She did the first part of the season on 80s erotic thrillers, and then she does move into the 90s and covers both these films. So definitely check that out if that's a part of cinema that you'd like to learn more about.
SPEAKER_05:I'm half surprised there wasn't a movie at some point just called Fear Boner. Just cut right to the chase.
SPEAKER_04:So she's in those. She is in Men in Black. And you just mentioned it a minute ago. She is in Dogma.
SPEAKER_05:Yeah, she's great in that. She's almost in, it's almost a similar role, I think. I haven't seen it in a really long time, to the Da Vinci Code.
SPEAKER_04:Oh. Where she's
SPEAKER_05:like an heir.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, okay. And then that last credit that I was mentioning from 2009 is a video called Once More With Feeling. Okay. Okay. It breaks my heart to have to say this, but we're covering now Terry Garr, who plays Julie, and she just passed in 2024. Man, I loved her. She was fantastic. And... I don't know how many more times we're going to get to talk about her for at least this podcast. But she had a great career, I think, in some regards. It was cut a little short because, to my recollection, she did have– I believe it was Parkinson's? No, multiple sclerosis, I think, which– had an impact on her ability to continue with this career. But she started with tons of TV work. And then very early in her film career, she was in The Conversation. I think a lot of people know her from Young Frankenstein. Yeah. She was in Oh God. She, you know, I love her, but boy, do they make her an irritable character in Close Encounters of the Third Kind.
SPEAKER_05:They really do. And it feels very intentional.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah.
SPEAKER_05:Because you have to... Have to feel a certain way. You have to root for him. Yes. Yeah.
SPEAKER_04:So she kind of comes across as a little bit of a baddie. But if you look at it objectively, she's seeing her husband go crazy seemingly. He's like going off the deep end and she's just trying to keep her family together.
SPEAKER_05:Yeah. Trying to have dinner and he's just playing with mashed potatoes for an hour.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah. But she does come across as like very shrill in that film.
SPEAKER_05:Well, that whole... Like the kids.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah.
SPEAKER_05:You're like, I kind of want them to get abducted. Do I want that for the aliens? I don't know.
SPEAKER_04:She was an Oscar-nominated actress. She got Best Supporting, and she is absolutely fantastic in Tootsie.
SPEAKER_05:Yes.
SPEAKER_04:She is so good in that film. She is in The Sting, too. We did cover Tootsie, so go check out that episode. We also did Mr. Mom and love, love, love, love her in that. So go check that one out as well. She does more TV work. She was on the TV series Good and Evil, as well as Good Advice, as well as Women of the House. I don't remember her in this, but she was in Dumb and Dumber.
SPEAKER_05:Oh, really? I don't remember that either.
SPEAKER_04:As well as the film Michael. I do remember she was so lovely for her short little stint in Friends as Phoebe's birth mother.
UNKNOWN:Mm-hmm.
SPEAKER_04:Boy, did she knock it out of the– I said that the last time we talked about her. But the way that she is able to mimic Phoebe's just like physical– Physicality, I should say, and mannerisms. In a
SPEAKER_05:way where you feel like it's Phoebe who inherited those from
SPEAKER_04:her. Yes. Yeah. Exactly. She was in the film Dick, and she also did voice work. She voiced for the TV series Batman Beyond. And we just watched this, I think, for the first time over the holidays. She's uncredited, but she is in the film Unaccompanied Minors.
SPEAKER_05:Yeah. Yeah. That was kind of a surprise. She's in another movie, at least one other movie, with Richard Dreyfuss, Let It Ride, from 89, that we may cover okay
SPEAKER_04:wow so she reteams with him yeah interesting okay so now this is that too he has passed on john hurd tom
SPEAKER_05:the bartender
SPEAKER_04:tom the bartender so heard he passed away in 2017 um had a great career very notable for a couple other films that he had a lot of range um i do remember um When I was in school, they brought in the TV with the VHS recorder slash player, and they had us watch The Scarlet Letter that he was part of, the TV miniseries. He was Dimmesdale, the priest, or no, I should say pastor, who had the affair with Hester Prynne. So I think that was my first introduction to him, maybe. Amazing. So that was him. He I know got a lot of acclaim for his role in the film Cutter's Way. We could do that. He also was in the Milagro Beanfield War, The Seventh Sign. He is in Big, so we covered him for that. He's kind of a dick in
SPEAKER_05:Big. He is, yeah.
SPEAKER_04:He was in Beaches. So look, I would say probably, would it be fair to say that probably 80 to 90% of people think of him as the dad in Home Alone?
SPEAKER_05:Uh, maybe possibly, possibly. I mean, yeah, there's probably like a correlation between people think he's the Dick from big and also Think he's the dad from Home Alone. They're
SPEAKER_04:both right. And here's what's so wild. Both parents from Home Alone are in this movie.
SPEAKER_05:Oh, shit. Yeah.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah. So it's kind of fun. They don't ever interact, but they're both in this movie. So he is Kevin's dad, and he does return for Home Alone 2, Lost in New York. He was in Awakenings, Radio Flyer, The Pelican Brief, O, which is... Othello? Yes, correct. And also did some TV work. He was on The Sopranos, Prison Break, and he was in the original Sharknado.
SPEAKER_05:Amazing.
SPEAKER_04:Amazing. All right, moving on to Kevin's mom, also known as Gail in this film, also known as Catherine O'Hara. So this was a big surprise. I mean, I guess I did kind of look over the cast, but when I saw her come on screen, I was like, oh, yeah, holy shit. So she is... The third slash fourth woman that Paul, if you want to count Kiki, that Paul encounters over the course of his adventures, as I like to say, in this film. And love her so much. She is still very much working to this day. I mean, she's done so much work that people just absolutely adore. Yeah. amazing comedic actress she started out uh in tv she did satv as well as satv network she was in heartburn the first time that we covered her um and honestly i'm trying to think of what else we could cover for i mean we could do heartburn but the first time we talked about her was for beetlejuice yeah so go check that one out and then was it just last year we still haven't watched it we need to watch beetlejuice beetlejuice
SPEAKER_05:it's crazy we haven't seen that yet yeah why haven't we
SPEAKER_04:Don't know. But we will. She was in Dick Tracy. As mentioned, she's Kevin's mom in Home Alone. And she comes back from Home Alone 2 Lost in New York as well. We adore her as the voice of Sally in The Nightmare Before Christmas. So she is in that. She has had a longstanding collaboration with Christopher Guest and all of his mockumentaries. So she is in Waiting for Guffman. She probably has her most high profile performance of his films in Best in Show. Is my guess.
SPEAKER_05:Her character in After Hours felt like a character from one of those movies.
SPEAKER_04:100%. Yeah. So she also does A Mighty Wind. More TV work. She was in Six Feet Under. Glenn Martin DDS. Don't know that. She, again, another guest film for your consideration. She has done voice work for the TV series Skylanders Academy. Most recently and probably most notable, she is Moira in Schitt's Creek. Oh, yeah, that's right. So she was on that. She voiced for the film Elemental. And then right now, well, I mean, I think they unloaded all the episodes for season one. She is on the TV series The Studio.
SPEAKER_05:Yeah, so is Mr. Scorsese.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, you're right. And it was kind of funny because when Dustin was talking about the funding getting pulled initially for The Last Septuagint of Christ, it made me think of that storyline.
SPEAKER_05:Yeah.
SPEAKER_04:So, okay, film synopsis.
SPEAKER_05:Oh, what could it possibly even be?
SPEAKER_04:Ordinary word processor Paul Hackett experiences the worst night of his life after he agrees to visit Marcy, a Soho resident that he met that evening at a coffee shop.
SPEAKER_05:Okay, well, that's actually pretty accurate. It's
SPEAKER_04:kind of the beginning of the story of this film. The last
SPEAKER_05:part of it is the beginning, and then the first part of it is kind of what happens.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, I mean, it's funny that he agrees to visit. I mean, he calls her and asks to... I mean, he doesn't ask to come over. She does invite him, but you know that's why he called.
SPEAKER_05:It seemed like such an interesting hookup, but when you get to know her character and realize that she's going through some trauma, then I guess she was just like... reaching out to yeah like someone that that they had a shared interest in in terms of like the book that he was
SPEAKER_04:reading i also i mean presumably it's the worst night of his life we don't know that for sure
SPEAKER_05:worst night of his life so
SPEAKER_04:far so far but yeah all good it's
SPEAKER_05:fine yeah that does it for me
SPEAKER_04:so on that note let's get into it with lisa and dustin
SPEAKER_05:let's do it
SPEAKER_04:All right. We're so excited to have these two guests on the show today to discuss this film. We have with us Lisa and Dustin Morrow of The Long Rewind. It is their own 80s podcast. And as they say, two Gen Xers taking a trip down memory lane, revisiting and reflecting on the cinema of the 1980s. Lisa, welcome. has her master's in library science from Simmons College and a BA in English and women's study from Bucknell University. She has several years of experience working in publishing and libraries. Dustin is an Emmy-winning filmmaker, best-selling author, programmer, podcaster, and educator. He is a tenured professor in the School of Film at Portland State University and in Portland, Oregon, where he teaches courses in digital cinema production and film studies. And we are truly delighted to have you guys on the show today. Welcome.
SPEAKER_06:We're delighted to be here.
SPEAKER_04:Thank you so much. We're so excited.
SPEAKER_02:Of
SPEAKER_04:course. And as I do, really, we just start off with the same question. And you guys are free to take it. Whoever wants to go first or together. Do you have a first memory of seeing After Hours? And if you do, what was your first impression of it?
SPEAKER_06:Well, I mean, you hear about food deserts now. I grew up in a movie desert when I was a kid, a small town in rural Illinois, and did not have a lot of access to video stores. There was one in my small town, but it wasn't going to carry something like after hours. And so I had to drive like a half hour to the nearest blockbuster. And when I would do so, I would stock up on sort of building my own kind of film education as a high school kid. And I was renting, going through all of the old Scorsese movies after I discovered, I think the first one I discovered was Taxi Driver. And I was like, holy crap, who is this guy? And then I went and rented his, essentially his entire filmography. And as part of that process, found After Hours and fell in love with it. Lisa, had you seen it before I showed it to you? No,
SPEAKER_02:I actually hadn't seen it before Dustin showed it to me. And yeah, so I saw it a lot later than Dustin did.
UNKNOWN:Okay.
SPEAKER_02:it was, uh, yeah. And I, I think, you know, I'd always loved movies. Um, and I was interested in deep dives into movies, but just hadn't really explored Scorsese all that much aside from maybe like good fellas. And, um, you know, Dustin showed this to me and frankly, I just thought it was awesome. Like I was really, I'm from, um, Long Island, which is a suburb of New York city. So I'm, I'm somewhat familiar with New York city. I worked there for a Very cool. And Dustin, just want to say something.
SPEAKER_04:Shout out to fellow Illinois native. I am one as well. Where are you from? I grew up in the Chicagoland area, so western suburbs, Elmhurst. Yep, yep. Yeah, there you go. And I'm just curious. I'm going to kind of ask a couple questions based on both of your answers. Dustin, do you feel like because of what you said about your upbringing and maybe having limited access to... diversity of film did do you feel like that in any way kind of fostered your love for like kind of that that absence made you more interested in it and the fact that you went into that as your profession
SPEAKER_06:well for sure yeah it's um it was a couple things um it was the invention of the vcr and the fact that my dad brought one home in the early 80s one day and And I started taping everything I could and realizing through watching the same movies over and over again, and then eventually the same scenes over and over again, and then eventually the same shots over and over again, that there were people behind this, that someone had to be making this. And I remember having that realization as a very little kid and thinking, well, how does that work? How does one make this? And what are these decisions that they're making? And it was just entirely sort of arrived at through the process of rewinding the same tapes over and over again and essentially watching them turn into dust as I replayed them endlessly. The
SPEAKER_01:broken tapes after a while.
SPEAKER_06:Yeah, yeah. It was HBO. It was the explosion of cable in the 80s where they started running movies over and over again. HBO in the early days didn't have a lot of original programming, so it was just running whatever it could license. And that meant that it was running the same movies over and over again. And so whether you liked it or not, you ended up seeing these things endlessly and you started to know them. And it was the same thing with video stores and having a video store move into our town. My dad owned a drugstore. He was actually the first one in our small town to rent VHS tapes. Oh, that's pretty cool. Whatever he couldn't rent on a given night, I would bring home. So I would just bring home a stack of tapes every night and watch them over and over again. So there are some of these movies that are not even very good, but that I just know them like the back of my hand because they were part of that. that collection of, of films. And the other thing I'll say about it is that growing up before the internet, um, in a small town in the middle of nowhere, um, you know, that's a, that's a cultural bubble. And my exposure to the world really was through cinema and through those videos that I would rent from the video store. And so, you know, to take after hours as an example, that was my, um, That was my introduction to New York City, really, and those types of movies. And it formed my idea of like, you know, that the city was this sort of alienating, dangerous, surreal space. And so that was my first idea as a small town, you know, farm community kid of what the city must be like. Uh, so, you know, it just, I, it's the, my, it's the way I learned about the world was through consuming cinema. So, you know, how could I not want to grow up to tell those stories and contribute to that, you know, that canon, that legacy.
SPEAKER_05:You know, one thing that you mentioned that other people have told us as well, and I never, I never did this or I never really thought about it, but it was just like the rewatching and not only rewatching, uh, like the complete films, but then like rewatching scenes and just holding on shots and others that we've spoken to her in the industry have all kind of had this like similar, at least history of how they first started watching films and how it impacted them. And it touched on one, one thing that you mentioned is just like the realization of how intentional so much of it is. Like you, you're seeing it, being provided in a certain way because it was intended to be. You were intended to be viewing it from a certain point of view or seeing a certain light. And I think there are people now who don't consider that. And that's part of the magic is you're just watching it and letting it happen without... It's kind of a unique... way of looking at it, I suppose, that's probably not unique if you're working in the industry, but for, you know, it's just like a lay person like me. I had never even thought about that. So I just think it's super interesting.
SPEAKER_06:Well, it's tricky, right? Because you're not meant to notice it. I mean, that's if they're doing their job, if the filmmaker is doing his or her job there, you're not meant to see that, which is part of, you know, with my students, especially teaching something like editing, which is literally like it's the invisible art of filmmaking, because unlike cinematography or acting or art direction or anything, there's nothing in front of you other than the rhythm of the piece itself. And so how do you how do you examine something that's meant to be undetectable? It's a process just to learn how to look at it before you can reflect on it and learn from it.
SPEAKER_04:And Lisa, I'm curious because, so Dustin, your comment about how you felt you were introduced to what New York City was like, and Lisa, you growing up in that region, I'm curious because like, okay, so for instance, me growing up in the Chicago area, whenever I see a film that It says that it's set in Chicago, specifically from that era, like a lot of the John Hughes films. And the way that I think it is similar or not similar or represented faithfully. How did you feel about seeing this film in the way that it was represented, given that you have like insight into it?
SPEAKER_02:Right. It was such a good question. Yeah, I think. Well, it's good I saw this film as an adult, I think. I definitely wouldn't have either understood it, and I would have been scared by it probably as a much younger person. I don't know if this answers your question, but it makes me think about, and I don't know if this happened to you too, Anna, we both kind of venerated New York City, but also were scared of it because we were from the suburbs, right? I didn't live in it all the time. So it was like you were told that it was a scary place, But also it was a place you went for a treat, like you would, you know, go see something at Radio City Music Hall or, you know, go for Christmas or anything, you know, something like that. So I do think it, my sense of New York in the 80s, I mean, even the nicer parts of New York in the 80s were a little grungier, like going to Times Square in the 80s was definitely a different experience than it is now or even 20 years ago. Yeah. And I remember it being kind of grungy, even as a kid, you know, you could tell, or going on the subway or whatever, you know, definitely grungier. And it had its sort of dark mystique, even again, as a kid, just going to Radio City Music Hall, you could kind of feel that and see that. So I think There is something about it that feels authentic, even though it is a very fantastical movie. Yeah, very stylized, very dreamy or nightmarish. Even though it has that quality, I do think there's something that feels to me kind of authentic about it, especially that part of the city and my understanding of it now, both now and in the 80s. It was then... kind of a desert. I mean, it was kind of this isolated, set-apart place. I don't remember if it was Scorsese or Fran Lebowitz. We've heard both of them talk about this movie in interviews. In fact, Fran Lebowitz interviewing Martin Scorsese about it. I don't know if you guys know Fran Lebowitz.
SPEAKER_04:The photographer?
SPEAKER_02:No, that's Annie Lebowitz, I think. Good call. Thank you. Good ear there. Good call. She's more of a like a She's an author, raconteur, very New York City person, big New York City person. And she's a friend of Martin Scorsese's. And I think in an interview, I just remember them both talking about living in that area. I think it's like the Lower East Side of New York City in the 80s and how you couldn't even get milk there so you would like when your friends would come to visit you you would ask them to bring like a gallon of milk or a quart of milk with them
SPEAKER_01:because you couldn't get it at
SPEAKER_02:certain times of day or whatever it would be it was just like a really isolated part of the city and i think um i don't know this film really gets at that i think you really feel that this is like You're in like a really isolated place in the city. It
SPEAKER_04:justifies him feeling trapped.
SPEAKER_02:Yes, exactly. Exactly. Like you've gone into an underworld kind of. And to me, I mean, again, I didn't, I certainly wasn't hanging out in the Lower East Side in the 80s. But it seems to me somewhat authentic to what the feel might have been.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah.
UNKNOWN:Yeah.
SPEAKER_04:Well, I'm curious for both of you. So, Dustin, you mentioned that probably your first introduction to Scorsese was, you said Raging Bull, correct? Probably the, or no, Taxi Driver, I'm sorry. No, I think it was Taxi
SPEAKER_06:Driver, yeah.
SPEAKER_04:And Lisa, you said perhaps it was Goodfellas was maybe your first touch? Might have been my
SPEAKER_02:first. I'd seen Taxi Driver by the time I'd seen After Hours 2, but probably Goodfellas was the first thing I saw, yeah. Okay.
SPEAKER_04:That's probably right. And... You know, I don't think we even said this to you guys yet. This was the first time that Derek and I had seen After Hours.
SPEAKER_05:I'm still processing.
SPEAKER_04:Oh, yeah. Wow. You're welcome. No, truly. Thank you.
SPEAKER_05:I remember the one moment where we were like, is he going to die? I don't know. Yeah. It
SPEAKER_02:kind
SPEAKER_05:of feels like
SPEAKER_02:he is. It's a good question. It
SPEAKER_04:feels like it's on that track. And, you know, I would say probably, Derek, you're maybe in the same boat as me. I don't want to speak on your behalf. Like, we do enjoy his films for sure. This felt very different from a lot of his work, both previous and after. And so I'm just curious, like, the sense I get is that, you know, you both do enjoy this movie. What is it about being a fan, perhaps, of his work in general, but also this feeling a little bit outside his normal work? What is it about this film that attracts you to it?
SPEAKER_06:Well, there's a lot. Yeah. One of the things that I love about movies is when you can see the... state of mind of the filmmaker at the time that they were making the film, which is a pretty rare thing because you just don't see that. It's hard to detect that in movies. You almost have to... I mean, part of it is you have to understand or be aware of the narrative around the making of the movie in order to even reflect on that. But this is a very public... the making of this movie in the industry, Scorsese had full funding and was days away from beginning to shoot the movie that he wanted to make for his entire career, the most important film that he would ever make, he thought, which would be The Last Temptation of Christ, when everything went wrong and the funding was pulled and his career, he thought, was completely sidelined. And he thought he would never make another movie. And he was plunged into this terrible depression. And his friend, Amy Robinson, who appeared in Mean Streets, she was the actress from Mean Streets, had become a producer by that point. And she brought him this property. And she said, you know, I understand you're very down. I think the best thing for you would be to get busy and to work and just make anything. And this is something that I think at this time in your life, given what you just went through, you should make. And so he makes this movie, which is so riddled with anxiety and paranoia. It almost becomes like, the movie is almost like being inside a nightmare.
SPEAKER_02:And
SPEAKER_06:that's all very, obviously, I think, part of Scorsese's mindset when he was making it. A similar thing happened with the movie that is the lesser known movie, which is considered the kind of West Coast sister of this film, which is a movie called Into the Night, which was a film by John Landis starring Jeff Goldblum and Michelle Pfeiffer. It's kind of like a diamond caper. It has a very similar tone. And not a dissimilar narrative even from this movie, even though it's a little more conventional in its sort of Hollywood trappings. But that was a movie that was made around the time that John Landis was on trial for the death of the actor Vic Morrow and the two young actors that died on the set of Twilight Zone and is a film that feels like it's made by a guy who's under incredible duress, just like After Hours. And that movie, too, is kind of like being trapped inside a nightmare where all of the interactions, all of the characters, everything that happens doesn't quite, it feels real enough that you buy it as being part of the world that you live in, but so just slightly unreal at the same time. You know, just like dream logic, the idea that you could, you know, one day, you know, you're at work and then you walk through a door and that you're at home. And as the comedian Mitch Hedberg once said, you know, the next thing I know, I have to build a lawnmower with my ex-landlord. You know, it's just the weird way that dreams
SPEAKER_04:work. Yeah, yeah, exactly. Yeah.
SPEAKER_05:No, I
SPEAKER_04:like that.
SPEAKER_05:Even the, I mean, aside from like the imagery and the way that the story unfolded, even the dialogue was, felt dreamlike, like the, the cover, particularly in the beginning, someone would say, I like pizza. And the other person would say, do you know the correct temperature to make coffee? And I'm like, what is that? Those weren't actual examples, but yeah.
SPEAKER_04:Like non-stock order. Like, yeah.
SPEAKER_05:Yeah. Yeah. I'm like, what is happening right now? Particularly with the, the like opening portion with Marcy.
SPEAKER_04:Yes.
SPEAKER_05:Yeah.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah. Yeah, I really quickly just wanted to say one thing that I loved about Dunn's performance. So, you know, we've mentioned that everything feels very kind of dreamlike in a manner of speaking or nightmarish. But one thing that felt so relatable, there are a couple instances for me. I think the first was when he's talking to Kiki, I think specifically while he's giving her the back rub. And there's all these instances where... the people he's talking to are kind of saying these like bizarre, you know, as we've mentioned, just like these nonsensical things almost. And he's trying really hard to have a real conversation about it. Like he kind of takes a lot at face value and try. And I, all I can say is I've been in that situation where you're maybe having a conversation with someone and they say something a little awkward or something that you don't really know how to respond to, but you don't, Yeah. Right. Right.
SPEAKER_05:that doesn't make any sense. And so that's all you can do is just try to like reflect it back at them and say, Oh yeah, no, this one time when I was a kid and then suddenly Kiki's asleep.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, that's right. That's right. You're trying to honor that social contract so hard and yet no one else around you is doing the same thing. Yeah. Yeah. Yes.
SPEAKER_06:What's fun too is when you see him start to push back against that as the movie goes on to like, there's that point where even though, He clearly has no interest in the plaster of Paris paperweight that he has supposedly
SPEAKER_03:come down there
SPEAKER_06:to purchase. There's a point where he snaps and he's like, where the hell is my plaster of Paris paperweight? That's what I'm here for and I want it now. And when the guys start to confuse him for being the area burglar, you can see there are points where he's like, It's so delightful. The comic rhythms of his performance are so great because the moments where he kind of snaps and pushes back are so much fun.
SPEAKER_02:After
SPEAKER_06:watching him get crushed through the whole movie, basically.
SPEAKER_05:I'm so glad you brought up the burglaries because it's the one thing where I felt like Cheech and Chong were just criminally underused in this.
SPEAKER_04:They I know a lot of really interesting actors just kind of pop up and pop away in this film. So I'm curious, like for both of you. Well, Lisa, you might have more context because you saw it a little bit as an adult, like to see all of these actors who have gone on to have and some of them. I mean, I feel like. Catherine O'Hara is still pretty early in her career. Like a lot of people were. Terry Garr was maybe more well-known at the time. How did you feel about kind of just like, it really isn't, although of course Dunn anchors the film, it has like a wide ensemble of characters.
SPEAKER_02:Oh, yeah. Well, I found that, I mean, to me, that's always delightful, right? When you see someone used in a way you didn't expect and you know who they are. But I think it also maybe lends something lend you more of that dream-like, nightmare-like quality because maybe it's kind of like having a dream where someone pops up that you don't expect. Or someone looks a little... You know who they are, but they look a little different from how you remember them or whatever. So I don't know. To me, it sort of gives it that dream and nightmare-like quality too. And just some of these people are just such great comic performers that it's... a delight to see them used in this kind of comedic, but scary way. Catherine O'Hara is both scary and comedic and Terry Gar kind of is too. So very much so. They
SPEAKER_05:were both quite sinister. Yeah. I mean, it was, yeah,
SPEAKER_04:it, if I may, the one thing that might be a little controversial, I don't know, maybe, maybe not. I was curious for both of your thoughts. So I, Seeing this with fresh eyes never viewed before, as he's going through his adventures and he bumps... I
SPEAKER_05:love that you keep calling them
SPEAKER_04:his adventures. That's a kind way of putting it, yeah. He bumps up against four to five, if we're including Kiki, women who... all kind of show themselves to be, and like maybe this is just part of the greater narrative of like what we've talked about with this being its own kind of yuppie nightmare. But all these women portray, I'm going to say like unbalanced characteristics. And for me, the one male character who is the most prominent outside of Dunn is John Heard's character. the bartender who comes across as rather like he too is going through it that night. You know, he finds out that his girlfriend ended her life and, you know, but all things said, he is a fairly even keel character. So I'm just putting it out there. If that was picked up on your end, in terms of the way that the female characters are portrayed versus the male, there is like a, a large discrepancy in terms of like, he keeps bumping up against specifically female characters that, you know continue to propel him into this nightmare so I'll just leave it at that I'm really curious what you guys think
SPEAKER_06:well he it's there's definitely a theme running through the whole movie of sexual frustration and repression and Scorsese is clearly using film noir and archetypes here, like the femme fatale. I mean, the movie looks like a noir. It looks like a noir movie in color, basically. And so he's playing with all of these kind of funky 80s, you know, Soho twists on the femme fatale, but, you know, they're all there, everything from the virgin to the whore, right? It's the whole spectrum shows up in all of these different characters. And there's all these little moments where his character is is emasculated or kind of, you know, startled. Um, and it's, it's not even always, uh, in his interactions with the women in the movie, there's like a scene where he's going to the bathroom
SPEAKER_02:and he
SPEAKER_06:looks at a little piece of graffiti, which is a shark fighting down on a male member. And it's, it's not subtle, right? The, uh, you know, the whole reason he's down there is to get laid, right? Like that's the reason he goes downtown. That's why he's you know he's doomed from the beginning really
SPEAKER_02:after all yeah
SPEAKER_06:yeah it's not he's not there for the paperweight
SPEAKER_04:right right
SPEAKER_02:yeah
SPEAKER_04:and lisa how do you feel about the those various portrayals
SPEAKER_02:yeah i mean i think you know i for sure you can see the theme um you know it comes from a very particular point of view, I think, which is Griffin Dunn's point of view or, right. So you're seeing, and, and I, you mentioned, I think that does, it adds to the sort of yuppie nightmare quality. Um, because I think usually when you think yuppie, you think of a young male professional, frankly, I mean, there were female yuppies too, but I think it's,
SPEAKER_01:it
SPEAKER_02:underscores all of that. Um, I think that I, you know, they're archetypes, right? So I guess, I think of them as archetypal more than actual portrayals of real people. I think archetypes can be really fun in a movie and interesting to look at. But yeah, I mean, you're right. I think it's definitely a theme and it's definitely obvious. I mean, again, that picture on the wall, which is funny because it has nothing to do with any of the women in the movie, but that picture on the bathroom wall pretty much says it all, right? I
SPEAKER_06:mean, the other thing to remember is that Scorsese grew up very Catholic. Yes, very Catholic. And the movie that he was about to make right before After Hours was The Last Temptation of Christ. And it's right there in the title, really. You know, that movie is about that relationship with Mary Magdalene. And, you know, Scorsese has, you know, all of his movies, Mean Streets especially, and the couple that he made before that that were very low budget, Who's That Knocking at My Door and stuff. They're very, you know... they're very steeped in catholic guilt especially around sex and relationships with you know the opposite sex and that that stuff was all there in uh in after hours for sure i'd be curious to know how much of that was in the script and how much of that is like in scorsese yeah
SPEAKER_04:no that's an excellent point i mean as far as like the the female characters go it's interesting to me because um As the film progresses, obviously the longest sequence in involvement is with Marcy. And then it almost feels like with each successive character, so we go from her to Julie to Gail to June, and each of them are kind of shorter sequences. At least it felt that way to me, is that next along the line he spends the most time with Julie, next along the line, you know, it's Gail, but it's a shorter amount of time. And then June is just a quick little blip. And so while each of them have like different dynamics that they bring to the film, I kind of want to concentrate on Marcy because I kind of feel in a way she represents all of them in a way. How did you feel, first of all, about Arquette's performance in this role and just that dynamic that Like we all have said at this point, like, yes, it's clear that Paul is going up to me with her because he thinks he's going to get laid that night. So I'm just curious about how you feel about the way they play off each other, what she brings to the table as both a performer and as the character.
SPEAKER_06:Well, Arquette was a she was sort of an ingenue. and played a lot of, you know, like we mentioned, Desperately Seeking Susan. She played a lot of these sort of like, you know, fluttery characters. And, you know, she's wearing this white dress. You know, it's, she's, I don't know that I would say she's virginal necessarily because she ultimately ends up being just as much of sort of a femme fatale as every other character in the movie. But, But there's something a little more innocent to her, which is sort of why it's interesting, this creeping, surreal paranoia that kind of comes into the movie around this idea that she might have these burns.
SPEAKER_02:Yes. That she is hiding
SPEAKER_06:from his character and that she's carrying these scars or this other side to her that he's not seeing and that he's getting increasingly kind of anxious about. So yeah, it's interesting. She's one of my favorite actresses of that era though. I just think she was, I don't think she was ever used as well as she could have been. I think she's, I think she's very good. I think she's great in Desperately Seeking Susan.
SPEAKER_04:Oh, absolutely agree with that. Yep. And Lisa, how did you feel about her performance?
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, I think she's fascinating to watch. I think she's really appealing and, I was thinking about, you mentioned a sort of the Odyssey, right? It made me, I was thinking sort of of mythical things and archetypes and how she does seem very innocent. at the beginning and she almost like lures him to the underworld in a way. Right. She like, she's like, yeah. And then as, as you, as the movie progresses, you, you learn, you start to notice things about her, like, like the burn stuff that he's talking about. And she's, she also, like you were saying, Derek, you know, she starts to say things that like maybe don't totally make sense and she's getting very agitated and you know, so it's, I think it's an interesting thing. devolution or maybe not, not decay, but it's like, she's like, maybe like Dustin was saying, she's slowly starting to reveal that maybe she isn't the innocent that he thought she was as he got lured into underworld. Right. So I think she's, it's a fascinating character. I think she's really fun to watch. And I think she plays that sort of ingenue turned kind of, I don't know, what would you call it? She's like an ingenue turned sort of unhinged person or like slightly unhinged person. She plays that change, I think, really nicely. Yeah, I enjoyed it. I thought it was a good performance. Just doubling
SPEAKER_06:back on something you said too earlier, Anna, which about the noticing that the interactions with these characters get shorter and shorter and I just want to call out that one of the things I love about this movie are its sort of offbeat rhythms and the way that it accelerates, the narrative kind of accelerates as the movie goes on. And I think that that's largely due to this incredible career long journey. collaboration that Scorsese had with a woman named Thelma Schoonmaker who was his editor she edited all his movies essentially until she retired at a certain point I can't remember what her last one was with him but she's such a huge contributor to everything that people love about his movies. If you think about the third act of Goodfellas when Ray Liotta's running around and he's in that drug-induced kind of anxiety, seeing helicopters everywhere. I mean, she's a genius. And with an editor like Thelma Schoonmaker, you can't help but be considered a great filmmaker, really, because she's going to take whatever you give her and she's going to elevate it. And one of the things I love about this movie is exactly what you were saying, Anna, which is the movie It seems to pick up steam as it goes. And so that when you do have moments where Paul gets trapped, it makes you as an audience member feel really anxious. Like when Terry Garr won't let him leave her apartment.
SPEAKER_02:Oh, gosh. And
SPEAKER_06:she's got all those mousetraps all over the floor. Yeah. And there's all that weird fifties iconography, like because the, he's been, because you've seen him running through this whole movie and just constantly moving when he gets trapped in that room. It's like, Oh my God, you just want him to get out. Or when he gets put inside the, uh, the plaster himself.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah. Yeah.
SPEAKER_06:He literally can't move. That's pushing back against those incredible rhythms that Thelma Schoonmaker has created as the movie goes on. It makes you as an audience member want to crawl out of your skin, I
SPEAKER_05:think. Yeah, the plaster was very anxiety-inducing. The one additional thing I wanted to mention or that I noticed, I guess, through... these interactions with the different characters and how each one was for a little bit less time. Paul's character after, you know, his interaction with Marcy with each successive interaction, he's, he's, going into that interaction with a little bit more sincerity because it feels like part of that anxiety is just trying to find someone who is like, I guess, more normal or who can help him. And so like just the way that he's approaching those and, you know, it almost seems It almost got there with, who is it, Catherine? Yeah,
SPEAKER_04:Gale. With Gale.
SPEAKER_05:Until he was completely sabotaged by Terry Garr. So, yeah, by the time he got to the end, it seemed like he was just really putting himself out there in a way that he hadn't at any other previous point in the movie. And for all of that trouble, he was just encased in plaster.
SPEAKER_06:Right, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_05:Yeah. And
SPEAKER_06:think about his, think about his interaction with the bartender. Oh yeah. This is the, like Anna was saying, this is like the one kind of normal person that kind of seems to want to help him out. And it's not, it's not intentional, but he essentially betrays that guy because not only does that guy end up being Marcy's boyfriend, but also he floods his bathroom. Oh my gosh. Yeah. No one ever talks about that. And
SPEAKER_05:everything comes up.
SPEAKER_06:Yeah, yeah. The toilet. So it's like, you know, he kind of stabs that guy in the back. Like the one guy who was actually trying to like do him a solid. Yeah.
SPEAKER_04:And if I may really quickly about Gail, probably one of the funniest moments for me, I just found it so hilarious when he, you know, he's running away from the mob, I guess you would say. The neighborhood watch. The neighborhood watch. I think he's gone up the fire escape and he just sees the slow moving, what's the name of the ice cream? Mr. Softy, I think. Thank you. Thank you. Yeah. Yes, I think you're right. And so he just sees the really slow move. being soft with like people that tickled my funny boat. I just thought, those little moments were just so funny
SPEAKER_05:is that when he saw the person getting actually murdered like shot and he's like they're gonna blame me for that
SPEAKER_04:too yes that back to back I think that also was hilarious which okay so I wanted to really quickly bring that back to the Burns because there were a couple moments in the film the Burns was one the murder was the other where I almost was like you know are we getting to a realm of like hallucination or like where it's really going beyond like was he really Was he really seeing a man getting shot?
SPEAKER_01:And
SPEAKER_04:I'm just curious from your perspective, both of you, like, are there moments where it really goes outside the realm of reality and what's true?
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, I mean, I think that's the question of the film, right? And the question of many of these kind of films. A lot of the films Dustin was mentioning, maybe not all of them, but a lot of the films Dustin was mentioning as Yuppie Nightmare movies have that same, you're left with that same question. Was this all just a dream? Or were parts of it a dream? Or did this actually happen? I don't know, Dustin, you may have more to say about that, but...
SPEAKER_06:Well, I think, yeah, it's just it's it's how you as a viewer want to read the movie. Right. Like, I think you can make an argument that none of this happens, that this is all an actual nightmare. You can just look at it as sort of like this Kafkaesque allegory and view it that way. It's a very self-aware movie. Right. It's a very filmic film. There's all these like camera moves that draw attention to themselves. You know, it's not a it's not a movie. You know, Lisa and I talked about this movie on another podcast with some people who we love. They're good friends of ours, but they tend to read movies very literally. And they tried to apply kind of a real literal reading to this movie. Like, why doesn't he just go home, right? You know, you can argue that he tries. Like, they changed the subway fee.
SPEAKER_02:The subway thing cracks me up. Yeah, yeah. Oh my God, that was so funny.
SPEAKER_06:Theoretically, like if you know New York, you know that he could walk home in a
SPEAKER_02:few hours. It would take a long time, but he could do
SPEAKER_06:it. It would take a long time. It would take most of the night probably, but he could do it. But he doesn't do that. And so I conclude sort of that that's not the point, that the movie is not really meant to be, that you're leading yourself to like some frustration as a viewer if you try to read the movie in a hyper literal way. way. So, yeah, I don't know.
SPEAKER_04:We've been guilty of that too, though.
SPEAKER_06:Yeah.
SPEAKER_04:Like there are so many films where if you just start pulling at that thread, you're like, well, then there wouldn't be a
SPEAKER_02:movie. So it's hard not to. Yeah.
SPEAKER_06:Yeah. Well, in the movie, it's the responsibility of the movie to teach you how to watch it. Right. And so the beginning of After Hours is fairly conventional, really. Like he's showing Bronson Pinchot how to work a computer and then he goes to a coffee shop and he hits on a girl and you haven't seen anything like that would make you think that the movie is going to become what it ultimately becomes. And like I was saying earlier, it's a very, you know, it's a gradual descent into this underworld that gets weirder and weirder until by the end of the movie, I think you are asking the exact question that Anna just asked, which is like, you know, is any of this happening or is some of it happening and some of it's not? Or, you know, what is it? And I think that's one of the, pleasures of the movie, really. But I could see how it would frustrate people, other people who were just like, why doesn't he just go home?
SPEAKER_02:But you can be totally forgiven, as you say, Dustin, because you are lured into it slowly. You do think you're watching something that's actually happening to someone, and eventually there's the question, because yeah. Yeah.
SPEAKER_04:And in terms of really quickly, because I mean, going along with what's real, what's not real in terms of Marcy taking her life. I mean, at one point, Derek, I mean, because I think I think there's been a lot of movies that have done this where you're like, oh, tricked you. She's actually like not, you know. Yeah, because I
SPEAKER_05:was wondering. I didn't know where it was going. I didn't know if he was going to be blamed for her death. And then it turns out that she wasn't dead. It was just like an overdose. But she's not actually dead. Because like he's a word processor, not a doctor. Maybe he got that right. Sure. So, yeah, I wasn't sure where that was going.
SPEAKER_04:And to take it a little bit at face value. I'm just curious if. you feel he had anything to do like if if the assumption is yes this person actually took her life this really happened do you feel like he had anything to do with that was that something that was outside of him and that she was just in such a state that like by the time he was introduced to her this this trajectory was already taking its course and she was going to take her life like do you feel like he had anything to do with with the choice that she made
SPEAKER_06:My literal reading is no, he didn't because she didn't seem that interested in him once he got there. And so he's nobody to kill yourself over.
SPEAKER_02:Sure.
SPEAKER_06:My non-literal reading, the reading I prefer, is that it's entirely his fault because the movie is about him.
SPEAKER_02:And
SPEAKER_06:so everything has to be filtered through his experience of the night. And so if the girl that you went downtown to sleep with ends up killing herself, and you're as sort of self-centered as this character is, and you're having the night this character is, then of course it's all about you. Sure,
SPEAKER_02:yeah. If he seemed to think so. Yes. Well, this brings us back to Catholic guilt too, I think, right? You think everything's your fault. You know, you caused everything. Plus, it's not only that, but if we're reading this as his nightmare, it's all happening in his head, right? So he definitely created all of it. So, you know, you could read it that way too. No,
SPEAKER_04:that's an excellent point. Yep. No, and I did– if I may, this is a little bit of a tangent– well, not tangent, but I do love that when he is speaking to the gentleman where, like, again, you know, Derek, you mentioned that he has– Yeah. to call back to like one of the funniest moments is when he is talking about the subway fare and he's like did you know that i didn't know that yeah but then he also just so casually you know like he it's an interesting dynamic because on the one hand he kind of in a very casual way although yes he is excited and emotional about it to some degree about marcy you know ending her life but at the same time like you're right like he does feel like he very much has something to do with that happening and that is also contributing to just the anxiety and desperation mounting for him over the course of this night it's just it is it is really interesting i feel like his little monologue to that gentleman in a really kind of hilarious way encapsulates everything about about how he feels about his own evening um Yeah. Sorry. Sorry. That's kind of neither here nor there. But I just wanted to bring up that scene. I didn't know how you guys felt about that particular scene. Sometimes those types of scenes feel a little bit too on the nose because he's literally recapping his evening. But how did you feel about that addition to the film? I
SPEAKER_06:thought it was... I mean, it's a fun scene because that guy, again, seems fairly normal. Yes. And so it's... he, that guy is us to some degree, right? He's the audience and you know, he's being presented with this thing and it's like, what do you, what do you make of this? Um, I have a question. Did you, did you guys, did you guys like Paul?
SPEAKER_04:Oh, that's a great question. Wow.
SPEAKER_06:Are you rooting? Were you rooting for him?
SPEAKER_04:How do you
SPEAKER_06:feel about him?
SPEAKER_04:I, wow. I don't know. I think, I think because for this being a first viewing for us, and we truly were almost... I don't want to speak on your behalf, Derek, but it really was me being taken along on this ride because I did not know where this film was going.
SPEAKER_05:Yeah. No, that's a good point. And that's a good thing to consider when I'm considering whether I liked it because there were so many moments of the movie where I really wasn't sure where it was going and... where it could have gone could have impacted how i would feel about him right i think the moments where he just like when he hopped over the thing at the subway i even said just hop the subway i don't think there would have really been a cop there sure there was so like the moments where he was clearly like just over it and try to get home i definitely like empathized with like No, I get it. Maybe you'd get a little bit more help if you weren't freaking out, but I understand why you're freaking out. As far as what started the movie off in the first place, just him randomly meeting Marcy and then going out in hopes of hooking up. Yeah, I don't know if I'm like... if I like him or dislike him, but there were a lot of moments where I just didn't want him to die. I know, I know he said that, like, I want to live. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:That's right. Yeah. So
SPEAKER_05:like, I felt, I felt like I was, uh, sympathizing with him, uh, throughout a lot of the movie. And I was, uh, I am very happy that test audiences hated the ending of him just being trapped in the plaster forever and that they instead went with him falling out of Cheech and Chong's hilariously sped up van.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, yeah, yeah. But that is such a good question, Dustin, because I think I was just too caught up in... And everything that was happening to him for me to get a read on him, if that makes any sense. So I think I'd need to watch it again to kind of like now that I kind of know where things are going to go. He
SPEAKER_05:didn't seem like a bad person. He was smart enough to not tell the bartender. Oh, yeah, I was just hanging out
SPEAKER_04:with Marcy. Sure. Yeah.
SPEAKER_05:You could see the wheels spinning in that moment where he's like. Oh, what do I what do I do? And then the bikers at the bar were like, well, it wasn't your fault. And he's right. Exactly. It was not my fault.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, no, no, that's a good question. I mean, yeah, I think I do really appreciate when films portray characters as like, you know, not black or white and they're not just clearly the hero or the villain. And I do think that Paul encompasses both of that. Um, I think sometimes to your point, Derek, he does things where you are extremely sympathetic to his plight and, you know, there are, there were other moments in the film, like, I mean, you know, his, his, what he thinks is going to happen with Marcy and the way that at least it felt to me at first, despite, um, behavior on her and that he found unusual. He still wanted to kind of progress that narrative of like, we're going to sleep together. You know, like when they were in the hallway, he was
SPEAKER_05:real interested
SPEAKER_04:in that. Yeah. And he just, you know, at that moment pulls her aside and kisses her. So he still is very intent on this particular outcome, even though already he's been shown that something's up with her. So that, you know, she
SPEAKER_05:start crying right after they're like, he kisses her. She starts crying or am I misremembering that part of the movie?
SPEAKER_04:Does she start crying? I'm not remembering either. I don't remember. But yeah, so there are moments in the film where I'm like, hey, dude. maybe not cool like she's going through something just forget the whole trying to sleep with her tonight but yeah I mean
SPEAKER_05:that's fair
SPEAKER_04:when somebody when somebody gets to the point of desperation like him then like of course you know and especially again I will say that this this film is took me to a lot of different places, um, in terms of like, and, and, and I don't say any of this with negativity, but like sometimes great confusion. Like, I'm not sure I understand what's happening at this moment, maybe intentionally. So with everything we've spoken of, um, there
SPEAKER_05:are great movie to rewatch now that I know, because I was so focused on, I was so like hyper focused on how is this going to end that I'm sure there are like pieces of this movie that just went right by me because I wasn't paying attention. Yeah.
SPEAKER_04:And moments of like great hilarity. But yes, I will say one thing that I felt was such an achievement of the film as well. There is obviously varying levels of anxiety throughout the entire film. I, for me, that moment where he thinks he is stuck in the plaster was so uncomfortable for me. Like I not knowing the outcome and I didn't know, you know, the fact that you guys now are, this is like repeat viewing for, you, Lisa and Dustin, you know, does it still hit you the same way or, you know, I know that's hard to say with familiarity with any film, but like how, how does it feel for you guys when it gets to that point, that climax?
SPEAKER_06:Yeah. I mean, I think the familiarity aspect is, I think, I mean, I've seen this movie probably a couple dozen times maybe. And it's, I'm at the point where I'm just admiring the, the craft, like how it's... I'm looking at what Scorsese did. I mean, like Derek's right. It's a very rewatchable movie if you're a film nut because it's dense with interesting shots and editing strategies and performances and art direction. And it's just, it's a, you know, it's a cineast's dream, this movie, which is ironic because it's kind of a living nightmare of the movie
SPEAKER_02:itself. A sinuous nightmare as well. Yes, I guess so. I like that.
SPEAKER_06:Yeah. So it doesn't make me as anxious, but that's why I wanted to ask you if you liked Paul. I'm also curious just to ask you, since this was a first viewing for you, like on a kind of moment to moment basis, how you were Were you laughing? I've always wondered. I mean, I find this movie hilarious, but I've watched it with people who sat there in stone silence. And I think the reason is that perhaps for some people, the level of anxiety that's layered into the very DNA of the movie is so overwhelming that the comedy can't land there. Like that maybe Scorsese went slightly too far in one direction. And I think without the comedy, this movie is unwatchable because it would just be too unbearably anxious. But I'm curious, were you guys laughing? Were you having a good time while you were watching it? Or was it like a gripping the blanket kind of situation?
SPEAKER_05:It was, for me at least, probably a little bit more gripping than laughing. But that's again, for us first viewing, not really knowing what I was getting into and maybe knowing that it was a Scorsese film. I'm like, I don't, I don't trust you, Scorsese. I think you're going to make this. I think you're like, are you going to turn this into like, taxi driver after hours or something?
SPEAKER_02:Sure, yeah. That's understandable.
SPEAKER_05:The whole end in a bloodbath, yeah. Yeah, well, I thought that Marcy was, like, luring him into, like, some
SPEAKER_04:weird... Harvest his organs or something.
SPEAKER_05:Yeah. So, like, there came a point where they're, like, there were, there were scenes, there were moments that were funny, like in spite of all of the anxiety and everything else that was happening. And, and that was great. And I, you know, it wasn't necessarily like a laugh, a laughing moment or a funny moment, but I did enjoy the scene at the, the club mostly because I'm like, I'm a big fan of like punk and I recognize the bad brains
SPEAKER_02:right away. Music right away. So yeah,
SPEAKER_05:I thought that was really cool. But yeah, when I, when I looked at like IMDb and just like Apple, Apple TV afterwards, I'm like, Apple TV is just calling this a comedy. IMDb includes the tag dark comedy. I think it's more dark comedy for me, but watching again, knowing, knowing now what I know, I think, I think I would probably be able to like loosen up enough to laugh at more of the jokes in it.
UNKNOWN:Yeah.
SPEAKER_04:Derek,
SPEAKER_06:did you grow up in a city? Where are you from?
SPEAKER_05:I grew up in Phoenix. So the after hours aspect of it is not unfamiliar to me because that was the only time you could go out.
SPEAKER_01:Oh, sure. Yeah. I was just
SPEAKER_06:curious on your own, sort of what you brought to it in terms of your own... ideas of what urban nights are.
SPEAKER_05:I spent one week in New York and went to bed early every night because it was for work. So that probably does not translate very well.
SPEAKER_06:Also, unless it was the 80s, it would be very different. Lisa and I go to New York all the time and we go out at night and it's very Walt Disney now. It's very different.
SPEAKER_02:It was two years ago, so yeah. No, it's fine. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, definitely. I mean,
SPEAKER_04:I think that for- What about
SPEAKER_06:you, Anna? How were you feeling while you were watching it?
SPEAKER_04:You know, it was kind of one of those instances where I had to, not to say that I wasn't going to be paying attention to the film, but it really kept me on my toes because it does change- tonality you know throughout the course of as you're watching it and so it begins feeling very rooted in reality and a dullness of it and that's why I immediately was like thinking Fight Club but that's also once it started getting going I was like oh okay here's another kind of similarity to Fight Club in terms of kind of heightened realities heightened stylization in a way and And I think the anxiety actually, although I stand by what I said about that moment where he's in the plaster and you just don't know if he's going to get out of it. In a way, the anxiety kind of, in some moments, alleviated as we went further down the road because I started understanding the dark humor of it. I got it. Yeah. So I... I think I was more like literally in my shoulders, more tense watching it for the first half of the film. And also the slower pacing, because I will admit that, you know. I can get a little impatient with slower paced films and especially the ongoing interaction with Marcy. And in my head, I'm just like, where's this going? Where is this going? I do. unfortunately have this need to know and and as the film sped up pacing wise I kind of sat back and and understanding the humor of it was able to sit back a little bit more and just enjoy it if that makes any sense
SPEAKER_02:so yeah that makes a lot of sense yeah
SPEAKER_04:yeah
SPEAKER_02:like you were learning the language of the film you were learning the rules of this world and so yeah kind of able to hang with it as it as it went on yeah
SPEAKER_04:and I will say that I came in, given my experience with other Scorsese films, and I will only speak for myself in saying this felt very different from what I know of his work. And so I think I went into it with a different set of expectations.
SPEAKER_05:I forgot that it was Scorsese until the movie started. I'm like, oh, yeah.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, yeah. So I think that was another layer. to how I first interpreted the film. So I feel like throughout a lot of his other work, there's greater consistency in terms of tone. And that's neither good nor bad. Just from my own experience, that feels consistent for me. And so, yeah, it was fascinating to watch this film. And this conversation has been equally fascinating. I've loved... talking to both of you and I'm really curious like to as we kind of wrap up you know again first viewing for Derek and myself I think if I may it feels like among people who whether or not they consider themselves like cinephiles if you think about Scorsese and his work maybe you are initially thinking taxi driver Raging Bull Goodfellas those types generally You know, the mob mob mobster type films, too. And this one kind of sits in an interesting place. Like, I know it has a cult following. I think. Correct me if I'm wrong here. It didn't necessarily perform great when it came out. Yeah. So for all those things said, how do you guys feel about its place in cinema history? Generally, do you feel like it should be? be more known more revered and then more specifically how do you feel about it in terms of scorsese's career
SPEAKER_06:i mean i think it's earned it's it's a bit of a cult classic it's in the criterion collection um and scorsese's such a legacy filmmaker that people now go back and look at everything he's done and so i think it's found i think it's found its place um I think it's actually cool that it, it would have been weird if this had been like a hit, right?
SPEAKER_01:It's like nobody wants,
SPEAKER_06:you know, nobody wants their favorite, like punk alternative band to become Taylor Swift. And I don't want after hours to become the Avengers, you know, it's, it's meant it's, it's part of its weirdness, part of it's like, um, individualism, you know, is the fact that it's loved so deeply by a small group of people. I mean, that's the truth of any cult film, right? You want, you know, that's part of what makes them fun is the fact that there are, you know, there are this sort of like-minded group of cinematic misfits who have discovered this thing and love it.
SPEAKER_02:We liked it before it was cool kind of situation. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, yeah. It
SPEAKER_06:sits there very nicely. Yeah.
UNKNOWN:Mm-hmm.
SPEAKER_06:I
SPEAKER_02:mean, I don't know his body of work as well as Dustin does. I agree with you, Anna, that it does feel different from... other Scorsese movies in a lot of ways. But I also, I think it deserves an important place. And I think it deserves to be in the Criterion Collection. I love rewatching it. Just like you guys said, it is greatly rewatchable. I can totally understand if you hadn't known Scorsese, or if you knew some Scorsese films and were coming to this new, that you would expect lots more bloodbaths. So of course you guys would notice that everyone was going to get shot up. That makes a lot of sense to me. And I haven't thought about that in a while because I have seen it many times. Let
SPEAKER_05:me get that one guy shot up in the... Yeah,
SPEAKER_04:if that's legit, then that really did... He's consistent in that regard. I just thought of a
SPEAKER_06:better answer to your question, actually. Sure,
SPEAKER_02:sure. Go
SPEAKER_06:for it. The film itself answers your question, I think, which is the ending of the movie Derek was alluding that how it was changed. So he's in the plaster and then he gets, he falls out of the back of this van and the plaster breaks open and he gets up and he realizes he's back at his work. His terrible, his terrible, meaningless job. And the gates are open and he goes in to start another day. And this is very, this is again, very Kafka-esque, right? But it's, there's also this, There's also this song that's featured very prominently, this Peggy Lee movie, Is That All There Is, right? Yes. Which is a song about how this woman watching her house burn down and she doesn't care. And the movie doesn't care. It's like the movie is saying, you know, it's sort of empty, but that's the beauty of it. He goes back in to sit down at work and you're like, nothing that happened mattered, right? Nothing happened. It doesn't matter anything that happened. The world of the movie has this very cold indifference to everything that goes on inside it. If you take that outside the movie itself, it's like, who cares? He was making the movie because he just wanted to work because he was so depressed. It was a very low-budget movie. It didn't have to perform particularly well in order to be profitable um so you know it all it doesn't matter it just is what it is there's no stakes to this film um because it's you know it's a dream
SPEAKER_02:i guess for all that though i you know back to what you guys were saying earlier about whether you like him or not i feel like that ending feels a little relatable for those of us who have like nine to five jobs you know i feel i feel a lot of human empathy for paul even if maybe we don't always like his choices or behaviors you know you're like, I've been there. I have that feeling.
SPEAKER_04:I thought that was a beautiful way to end the film. It felt like it put a great little button on the way it started and the way it bookended it very well, I felt. And if I may, I think... Sorry, go ahead. No, I'm just really curious. This isn't so much a question as... I don't know if you guys picked up on this. So like... you know, we're Gen Xers as well. And I'm curious for younger generations as paper mache, like paper mache was actually pretty big when I was a kid. But I was like, I wonder if people watch this film. They're like, what the hell are they doing? Like, because I don't know if paper mache is a
SPEAKER_05:thing. That's so funny. There was so much of it. So
SPEAKER_04:much
SPEAKER_02:paper mache.
SPEAKER_06:There's never been more paper mache
SPEAKER_01:in a
SPEAKER_02:movie. I never thought about that. That's so funny.
SPEAKER_06:It's peak paper mache.
SPEAKER_02:I guess the 80s was a paper mache decade. I never thought about that. Entire studios of it. Yes. Oh my God. We made all our
SPEAKER_06:homecoming floats out of it. That's the only time I remember working with it as a kid. We had a Jaws themed float and we made a gigantic 30-foot shark out of papier-mâché. I
SPEAKER_02:mean, it was good times, you know? Yeah, good times. It was the 80s,
SPEAKER_06:man.
SPEAKER_02:You know what's funny, too? Thinking about the papier-mâché, as you guys were talking earlier about, is this a dream or not? It occurred to me He's going there. Well, they keep talking about this bagel made out of paper mache. So it's like a real thing, but it's made out of paper mache, right? It's like a little microcosm of the movie in that paper mache. And then it
SPEAKER_06:shows up in Terry Garr's apartment. She's got one. And she's holding it.
SPEAKER_02:You can't eat it, but it looks like it's real, right? Like it's, I don't know.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. Classic. Well,
SPEAKER_04:I just want to say again, this has been a truly wonderful conversation. Derek and I, I've had a smile on my face the entire time. It's been super fun. And just thank you to both of you for coming on the show, wanting to talk about this great, introducing us to this film. We really are so appreciative of that. And before we sign off, I just wanted to throw it over to both of you if there's anything that you wanted to talk about to share with our listeners.
SPEAKER_06:Well, we'll just plug the show. Sure. Yeah. So Lisa and I do a weekly show called The Long Rewind. It comes out every Wednesday morning. You can find it on all of the podcast apps. Just search The Long Rewind. Our little thumbnail looks like a little videotape with the title of the podcast on it. And we have a slightly different format than the show. We don't do a movie format. an episode or anything, we sort of look at a different trend or a genre or a grouping of movies. Um, or we talk about the sort of film going experience itself. Like we do, we did an episode on video stores. We do, you know, we're going to look at the rise of multiplexes, um, sort of how we, how you found and consumed movies. And we look at like sort of movie adjacent things like music videos and TV movies. And, uh, We're seeking to do a deep dive into the culture of the 80s, the political, cultural elements that inform the cinema and ask the question, why were these movies being made and why were they so popular? What can we say cumulatively about the Reagan era in terms of the film it produced?
SPEAKER_02:Plus, we can't help but- talk about our top tens and our favorites, right? So we also just talk about our favorites and try to introduce people to maybe some films they hadn't heard of, which is, we love that we were able to introduce you to this because that's just like one of our favorite things to do is to introduce people to stuff they haven't seen.
SPEAKER_04:Well, we will 100% drop your podcast in our show notes as well as all your other info. And you guys, just thank you again. This has been such a pleasure for us. Oh, thank you. Thanks for having us on. We had a great time. Thank
SPEAKER_02:you.
SPEAKER_04:Lisa, Dustin, thank you so much for an amazing conversation. It was... Really fun to talk to them about this film.
SPEAKER_05:Yes, it was. And thank you again for the suggestion. Oh, 100%. Yes. For nominating, offering up this movie to
SPEAKER_01:like. Nominating
SPEAKER_05:this
SPEAKER_01:film.
UNKNOWN:Yeah.
SPEAKER_05:For compelling us to watch this movie.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, absolutely. Because it was great. We've, like, this film has come up just in us talking about, you know, people who have worked on other films. Yeah. And we've talked about, like, doing this film at some point. We just never pulled the trigger. And so I'm glad that we finally did. And it was a great way to experience this film by getting to talk about it with them. Absolutely. So we talked about this with them in terms of watching the film again.
SPEAKER_05:Yes, I think I would just because, you know, as we talked about with them, I was so excited. anxious watching it, wondering what kind of movie is this? Yeah. Like, is it a comedy? Am I about to see this guy suffer a fate worse than death and just be trapped in plaster at the end? So now that I kind of know the film's trajectory, I would definitely watch it again just because I might be relaxed enough to get a little bit more out of it or see things that I missed the first time.
SPEAKER_04:Agreed. Yeah. Same. And Call to action. I mean, like, look, this is a big part of our conversation with Lisa and Dustin in terms of. Familiarity with other Scorsese films
SPEAKER_01:and maybe
SPEAKER_04:I again, I'm not I don't want to speak on your behalf, but like what my expectation was of this film with what I knew of his other his other work. That's why I
SPEAKER_05:was so anxious the whole
SPEAKER_04:time. Yeah. And and probably not being used to Scorsese comedy. Um, so Scorsese style comedy, even
SPEAKER_05:like his movies will have like comedic elements, but those are just like, because they're like stories with humans who like will occasionally encounter moments of levity or comedy, but it's not like strictly speaking a comedy per se for the whole movie.
SPEAKER_04:And I don't have exhaustive knowledge of all of his work, but of what I know, maybe it's the comedy in this film for me comes closest to like, I know Wolf of Wall Street has really dark humor at times as well. Yeah. So maybe that's for me the most comparable, but for me, it's probably silence.
SPEAKER_05:Maybe
SPEAKER_04:not. We didn't even, we didn't actually, did we watch his version? We watched, we watched, we did his version and then the original. Yeah. Okay. There you go. So I would love to know, how many people have seen this work and how they feel it stacks up with his other films.
SPEAKER_05:That's way better than mine. Mine was just going to be how many people get in a cab and just wave their money around or leave it in a place where
SPEAKER_04:it can fly out the window. Who does that? Nobody does that. I'm sorry. We talked about that too. It's like you start pulling on these threads with films. It's like, I don't really know if I buy that. You just put your money. I don't ever recall. I've been in cabs before. I don't recall you putting your money in a little dish.
SPEAKER_05:Okay. So we've established that no one does that. So we'll just go with your call to action.
SPEAKER_04:Okay. So if you want to reach out, we'd love to. love to hear from you you can reach out through Facebook Instagram or blue sky it's the same handle at all three it is at 80s montage pod and 80s is at eight zero s at
SPEAKER_05:sneak
SPEAKER_04:peek
SPEAKER_05:yeah
SPEAKER_04:so no joke I've talked about this movie so much and I've seen it so much that I was like we haven't done it like I couldn't like most films like oh I know exactly if we've done it on the show or not but I think because we've totally talked Nice, nice. I like that little, that little, yeah, you did real well there. So I don't think I even need to give you a clue.
SPEAKER_05:I mean, for sure. You don't have to give me a
SPEAKER_04:clue this
SPEAKER_05:time. I already know. It's Valley Girl.
SPEAKER_04:It sure is. I'm finally, I mean, I say that, but we make all the choices on this show of what movies we're going to cover. It's true. We just haven't gotten around to it. And I love this movie so much. Like, totally. And it's totally rad. And I'm really excited to finally cover it.
SPEAKER_05:I'm excited to finally watch it.
SPEAKER_04:Have you actually not watched it?
SPEAKER_05:Nope. Not even a scene? No, I've seen scenes.
SPEAKER_04:I know you've seen scenes because I have it on all the time.
SPEAKER_05:Yeah.
SPEAKER_04:But I am very excited to cover this movie. It is another very early Nicolas Cage film. And yeah. So in the meantime, thank you to everybody for hanging with us. We... Appreciate so much that of all the choices you have out there for podcasts that you are tuning in to hang with us. And we will talk to you again in two weeks time.