Dawg On-It Trucking Pawedcast

16. Ray Haight, Transportation and Retention Specialist, How To Keep Your Truck Drivers Forever

May 29, 2020 Chris Harris, The Safety Dawg Season 1 Episode 16
Dawg On-It Trucking Pawedcast
16. Ray Haight, Transportation and Retention Specialist, How To Keep Your Truck Drivers Forever
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Dawg On-It Trucking Pawedcast
16. Ray Haight, Transportation and Retention Specialist, How To Keep Your Truck Drivers Forever
May 29, 2020 Season 1 Episode 16
Chris Harris, The Safety Dawg

Recruiters, Ray Haight, is an internationally known expert in regards to Truck Driver Retention and Ray is giving away his secrets on this week's show. 

Keeping it Safety Dawg Simple!
#truckdriverrecruiting #truckdriver #truckdriverturnover

Show Notes Transcript

Recruiters, Ray Haight, is an internationally known expert in regards to Truck Driver Retention and Ray is giving away his secrets on this week's show. 

Keeping it Safety Dawg Simple!
#truckdriverrecruiting #truckdriver #truckdriverturnover

Ray Haight (0s):
Amazingly difficult now. So thank you all for being out there. Then I applied her professionalism.

Chris, Safety Dawg (7s):
You are listening to mr. Ray, Hey, one of our industries, most prolific and admired executives. And on today's show, Ray is discussing driver retention and driver recruiting, and how in the world that you can possibly increase your retention to drive up profitability. If that sounds good, stay tuned.

2 (32s):


Chris, Safety Dawg (36s):
Welcome to the Dawg On-It Trucking Pawedcast. When it comes to trucking safety, the dawg is on it, but what do we do on this show? I get to talk to some of the most influential trucking executives in our industry so that we can pick up new tips and tricks to use in our everyday businesses. Let's get on with the show.

2 (1m 1s):


Chris, Safety Dawg (1m 4s):
Hey Ray, welcome to the Dawg On-It Trucking Pawedcast. How in the heck are you?

Ray Haight (1m 9s):
I'm good, Chris. I'm good. Thanks. Just like everybody else. I'm for down here and opening up and going to become a little more social IDs, but yeah, pretty good. All in all. I used to see the sun out and some nice weather for the next few days. So hopefully I'm hopeful. Like a lot of people, this, this whole thing will start to slow down a little bit more.

2 (1m 30s):
Yeah. I mean,

Chris, Safety Dawg (1m 33s):
Yeah. It's been a struggle, I think for everybody. Yeah. Truck drivers, especially during this COVID deal.

Ray Haight (1m 40s):
Yeah. I think you're right. I've asked the doc. I mean, and I know, you know, I drove a truck for 10 years and I've never been one to suffer and solitude. I'm quite okay with solitude. So I want to think about the, when I think about the entire population who might be best equipped for that. And I think about truck drivers and specifically the long haul guys, correct?

Chris, Safety Dawg (2m 2s):
Yeah. Well, they've done an outstanding job. All of them and all the frontline workers have.

Ray Haight (2m 8s):
Sure. You bet. You bet. You know, you look at him in a different light. I, I, I love the trend in the positive trend that's going on about our industry and our drivers, you know, can we sustain it after the fact that, you know, a good friends of mine, like Kevin Burke, shit that a trucking moves America forward and the OTAs now you got a truck grata and all their new stuff, but I mean, all that, stuff's great, but it comes from the inside and it goes out. But when it comes to the outside and comes in, I mean, that's the real value, right. And that's what you can build on.

Ray Haight (2m 38s):
So we've got to, I think, as an industry really take advantage of this and make sure we don't lose this opportunity.

Chris, Safety Dawg (2m 45s):
Yeah. It it's, it's a huge opportunity. I agree with you. Can you tell us, or tell our listeners and Watchers a little bit about yourself? I know. I mean, gosh, I've known you for 25 or 30 years since we're both in trucking and Ontario, but I also know you are the past chair of TCA. What else is hanging on your, your resume?

Ray Haight (3m 10s):
Well, I, yeah, you and I have known each other for a long time. Don't vote it. And then obviously we got the memos on that, on the aircraft and the beer deal. So yeah, I'll get a little about myself, sir. I'm a second generation that had a few trucks and about three passed away, very young. I, I took those stripes over and drove truck myself for 10 years. Have a truck

Chris, Safety Dawg (3m 36s):
Ray, before you go on, did that was the coolest logo, by the way, I think that was, was that your dad's logo or is that yours?

Ray Haight (3m 45s):
No, I got a, you know, there is a quick story on that, but a landslide, there was a gentleman here in London who was a local artist and he had done a lot of paintings specifically in the railway industry in greater detail, beautiful stuff. But as a, like a lot of us that was his passion to sideline, to sideline and where you put bread on the table was by doing logos. And he was doing logos on a couple of my dad's trucks. And I got to know the Lance, a very, very nice gentleman, him and his wife, Esther.

Ray Haight (4m 19s):
And I asked them when I started, you know, Southwestern express and Southwestern express was really meant to, to see the U S DDOT and the scales by, you know, we live in Southwestern, Ontario, but that logo with the cactus on it, the whole fit was a, you know, trying to make, to have people think we were from Southwest us and the company that we were working with that Alaina had a facility in WinCo texts. So we with London and dash Waco, Texas with a logo with a cactus and we went on us.

Ray Haight (4m 57s):
I'm not kidding here, Chris. We went from being pulled in as a total unknown to most of these ways, scales through taxes are not texting so much, but our consultancy, all those will hire out to basically driving by. And most of them are making certainly not getting pulled in. So anyways I logo was served a dual purpose, but the talent behind it was certainly lanced. And I remember he came back, I can remember the day he brought it in me and said something like this, what you're looking for.

Ray Haight (5m 29s):
And I went, wow. And I think he charged me 50 bucks. Amazing. Yeah. So anyways, I dropped out for 10 years, started a small company after, you know, I'm a poster child for what might be the driver shortage. My dad was gone all the time and come from a, you know, a moving family with the granddad is a, he was actually an engineer on the New York central and my uncle was an engineer and Sianna. And my dad was a, you know, a brave man.

Ray Haight (6m 1s):
And then he got sick of that, started driving a truck. So, but he was kind of also a time when I was growing up. So when my kids came along, I decided that I didn't, I didn't want to miss them growing up. So my wife and I kinda stuck our necks out, my wife, Connie, and we started a small company called Southwestern express in London, Ontario, and got that going up to about 50 trucks and then was approached by McKenna transport as well. And then bill McKinnon.

Ray Haight (6m 32s):
And that ended up when we went down to their facility in the late eighties, early nineties in 2005, I left there, but in 2000 we amalgamated those two companies and we are just on the 300 trucks with 200 owner operators, a hundred company trucks about a quarter million square feet warehousing. And we'll what 20% of our revenue came from logistics. So we really busted that thing up. And, you know, at that time, the McCammon family is very political through OTA and CTA, and they encourage me to get more involved in the United States in that association.

Ray Haight (7m 11s):
And I had brought with me a membership at TCA and, and the funny thing with that was Doug Cuddy from cutting foods and credit transportation was friend of mine. And I was trying to get their work. They go to Western Canada, but the only way that Doug would give you their overflow freight was if I became a member. So that's kind of how I became a member of TC. So actually the chairman I went to the, the officer's Corp, it was a seven year program. So I became the chairman.

Ray Haight (7m 41s):
And prior to that, I was the chairman of the professional truck drivers Institute. And I was involved with that from 2001, right through to just recently. And I also was the chairman of Nat mean North America training management Institute, which kind of comes with the role when you're chairman TCA. So that's a brief oversight. I I've, I've done and been involved in a number of different committees and things of that nature and other efforts.

Ray Haight (8m 12s):
And most recently association profitability program, the benchmark informer.

Chris, Safety Dawg (8m 19s):
And from, I, I'm not real fluent on TCA. I certainly know PTBI and that may be better than TCA, which are all kind of sons and daughters, I guess, of TCA. But from what I understand that profitability program is one of the strongest or one of the biggest benefits to being a member of TCA. Can you explain a little bit of what that is and why a trucking company might consider joining TCA to get into that?

Ray Haight (8m 54s):
Yeah, sure. Talk about carers association and my, I guess biased opinion. That's probably the best value for social dollar association dollars that the trucking company Smith, because it's very reasonably priced and it's predicated on volume trucks, but it, again, it's not, it's about 10% of the cost of a lot of national associations. And just to put that off the table for people to investigate, I mean, back in the day, our 300 truck fleet spanning a couple of thousand dollars a year to be a member and the educational programs that are available and, you know, the networking, getting to know your peers, if you're a crossbar motor carrier, it's invaluable.

Ray Haight (9m 41s):
And I've always felt that way. And I've been a huge supporter of TCA. And most recently through the whole COVID thing, education on and sharing of thoughts with other trucking companies, what to do during this crisis, they've been at the forefront of it and actually put something out every day. But I mean, if you can think of it, they've addressed it and have left open the opportunity for careers who might be wondering which way to turn a source of that information.

Ray Haight (10m 14s):
But, you know, back 15 years ago, truckload carriers association decided that its members decided that a benchmarking program would be a great idea and that other industries have it, why couldn't trucking out. So what they did is they approached the, the us department of justice because you have to have that type of approval, so they can ensure that there isn't collusion of carriers to fix rates and those types of things. So they'll put up, they'll put a limit on what you can do and TCAs case.

Ray Haight (10m 48s):
It was primarily wrapped around the expense side of things, more so than revenue. And you can't talk about revenue and lanes, and there's a vetting process to make sure that two carers aren't in the room that might dominate a line or a specific shipper, all those types of things. But having said that, that thing got started and 12 years later it was still kind of, I won't say floundering, but it had what, 48 carriers. And I think that the reason for that was that they never kept up with technology.

Ray Haight (11m 23s):
And certainly in the case of transport, my, my then CFO, we were involved with it and , and I'll add the time. There was a huge chasm between Canadian us dollar. So it was hard to really kind of rationalize this thing. So we didn't hang in there as long as I wish we would have, but basically, you know, what you do is you, you know, these carriers got together and decided on a common balance sheet.

Ray Haight (11m 53s):
I'm a little too deep in the weeds on this, but you can't compare one thing to another, unless all the elements going into that comparison are coming from the same direction, right? It's just an exercise in futility. So the carriers got together and they made a common chart of accounts so that you are measuring things the same way. So when you look at a number of, they didn't know exactly what went into that number, now you can do a comparison with another carrier. So that guy going up was a, certainly an important accolade.

Ray Haight (12m 26s):
Well, was winding it down though. Was there everything done on these spreadsheets, Excel spreadsheet? So if Carrie would go to a meeting and he would get all this data and come in the size of about a two inch thick craving, a telephone book, and it was very, very granular and it just didn't keep pace with technology. So I, at the time here, I guess back seven, eight years ago, was doing some consulting around here and there in the lab.

Ray Haight (12m 58s):
I never envision myself playing that role off of being a tracker and running trucking companies, but I ended up there and quite enjoyed it. So I was approached by them, a friend of mine, I was consulting with NHL and Glanton and Chris and Ray and the liver disease. And when Chris had already left and hanging out a few years back, he came to me and said, Ray, I know you've been trying to do this. I'm prepared to dedicate a period of time to develop our some software that will streamline this and make it more available to the carriers and the people that work for them.

Ray Haight (13m 37s):
So Chris, who is a, a sharp, as you're going to find a settable building this software, and it's called GCA engaged. Now it's there, it's a original name was stack up. And that's the name of company that he and I own. And we ended up with a licensing agreement, truckload carriers association. So that is the platform now. So what that allows carriers to do any carrier, it's like 531 data points, which sounds like it's excruciating, but you don't have to do them all at once. You can start fairly simple.

Ray Haight (14m 7s):
So, okay. Go online. For instance, measure their fuel costs compared to a competitor or a group of competitors. You're driving costs as a portion or percentage of gross revenue, you can do all of these things and slowly build up to a certain number. Now you can do that all online. You don't have to, it's really phase one. Let's say you can go on as officers, five carriers, and this is the DRG restriction DOJ restriction. Then you can look at that composite of carrots and see where you are, where you add up, which is invaluable.

Ray Haight (14m 43s):
If you're running a trucking company, or even if you were an owner operator, you don't know what you don't know. You might think you're very good on your maintenance costs. And then you go and look and you compare yourself to like sized carrier in your geographic region, hauling van or whatever you're doing and find out, you know what, I'm off 10%. Well, maybe not 10%. I feel cost can be the difference in profit and loss, but you can do that in every piece of your business and you can do it online. And then after you get acclimated to that and feel good about it, then you can enjoy it.

Ray Haight (15m 14s):
You can move from there to phase two, which is to become active in a ongoing benchmarking program, which is a group of cares that you compare yourself. You meet typically before all that you would need, one-on-one at least twice a year. And you would talk about these numbers. And how did Chris, how did you get to that number? How did you, what magic socks do you have that I don't have? Because you're much better than I am. So you can have those conversations.

Ray Haight (15m 45s):
You know, they have a lot of things that spur off of that. One is called best practices, which I just love wherever carrier brings the best idea that they've bumped into in previous six months. And these are, these are, these companies are the best of the best and they'd be continue to improve.

Chris, Safety Dawg (16m 3s):
Right. And I would assume, and you can talk about this. I would imagine one of those best practices is retention and recruiting that you talk about. Cause I know you've developed a program that's available through TCA that talks or trains how to improve your retention program. Because you, you say that you had a company that had 120% turnover,

Ray Haight (16m 34s):
One point. Yeah, that's true. That's true. So yes, retention is a part of the profitability program. I'm currently a consultant for truckload period association and half the title of retention coach. So retention is measured, but it is delaying it delineated in a number of different ways. So we know, and I'll say a few people know that companies with a stable workforce are our super cops, right?

Ray Haight (17m 6s):
So if you take that through to its ultimate end, what you'll find is that low turnover typically is a direct correlation to lower insurance premiums. Lower insurance premiums are a precursor to Dustin class operating ratios in my class and my workshop. I talked about the equivalent of a little turnover in each department, which in maintenance for me, I'll give you a comparison.

Ray Haight (17m 36s):
What do you think the value of the rolling asset truck or trailer might be after four or five years in the company? That's that one driver and compare your company with a hundred percent turnover. That's probably had 10 to 15 drivers in a single piece of equipment over four or five years. Obviously that asset value is much greater and you were much more welcome to the used truck market. People will wait for those assets. You're not going to have to go looking for people to buy. I'm gonna knock on your door.

Ray Haight (18m 6s):
Then I go from there, just the maintenance costs you can expand on all of these things. Sales to me is a important one because we didn't have a stable workforce. You can train that workforce, the advanced defensive driving, you know, we used to have standalone computers and a guy could take it. You guys could take, you know, additional training and the conversational sales and all of these types of things. So we've got a better educated workforce in our sector because they're stable. You can't train 120% turnover.

Ray Haight (18m 37s):
You know, that's sales for me and also equates to what I call a higher quality of revenue. Cause you have to say what worked for us. You can go looking for things that are more complicated and maybe have higher value. And those shippers will trust you because you have those, those numbers. So again, you can go down. I've always said sympathy for that. You know, clerks looking after driver's files with everything that goes into their driver's file, 120% turnover with the 300 truck fleet compared to 20%, are you kidding me?

Ray Haight (19m 8s):
So you can reallocate that asset or that person to be doing other things rather than do not chase. You know, I am mr. That flat. Now you can go on, you know, from their operations, dispatcher training your entire workforce on a weekly basis compared to activating, you know, I don't know, 50 trucks or maybe 10 drivers administration accounts. When we started stack up Chris and I, we had our first users call, which is usually where people who subscribe to the program will tell you what's wrong and what they like about it, what they want to see in the future.

Ray Haight (19m 46s):
Right? Interestingly enough, the first thing which was CFOs that call and they want to know everybody else's age accounts receivable, which clicked in my head because what we're talking about here is training truck drivers on paperwork and systems. So if you have a lower turnover, you have a lower, lower age council Cielo, then it becomes a time cost of money. So that was very interesting to me. So you can equate all of these things at midnight. When we went to our, one of our offices from 120 and 20% journal, or we doubled our operating ratio, we didn't do it because that will we, don't our operating ratios, you us, because of all those things.

Ray Haight (20m 26s):
So, you know, typically when I talk about retention, one of the questions that I get from the recruiters in the room. And so I'm going to say, if people is, well, how much did you pay to recruit a driver? You know, I know that listening, but they just didn't quite get the message, you know? Cause I, my response would be, we certainly went through the effort to find out where our recruiter, doc recruiting dollars were spent and how effective they were.

Ray Haight (20m 55s):
But really our effort was to fill a much larger, you know, a group to look fun, a much larger funnel. Let's put it that way, what we hired, right. People for the right fit. So my cost of recruiting is twice a year as or not. I kept the guy for five years. Here's might be very efficient half of mine, but you had to hire 10. Yep. Yep. So it's very interesting to see the effect of it. The other thing, you know, it bothers the hell out of me, Chris, I got to tell you this, you know, people have become disposable in our industry.

Ray Haight (21m 31s):
Knew prior to this, the human tragedy, people are going home to tell the families that don't have a job, you know, a hundred truck fleet sending 120 guys home, either quit or fire. And we do it because we could be become, you know, just, it doesn't bother us anymore and it's just wrong. So that human element is been a big part of it for me too. I haven't been a faster

Chris, Safety Dawg (21m 59s):
And we'll put links in the show notes below about this program, TCD that if people are interested in it, but some of the things that I found interesting in that program or in the video that you have promoting it, you talk about a $6,000 cost and that's just a number for recruiting a driver. And you're talking about a 300 truck fleet that has, you know, 120% turnover compared to a same size fleet that only has a 20% turnover.

Chris, Safety Dawg (22m 35s):
What does that do to the bottom line?

Ray Haight (22m 37s):
Well, that, again, that's part of the part of the program and I, you know, that's, I, I quit. I tell people I put that there because you're going to ask that question. So let me give you that number, but that is granular, granular, really to where the money is when you, when you look at each department in the inefficiency that is there, that number, you know, that you just mentioned pales in comparison, it really does that. Doesn't add up it far exceeds that number. And I just points up and also just for self promotion here, but I do a consulting on the side, on my own to, through no re consulting.

Ray Haight (23m 15s):
So I concentrate a lot of effort at TCA and I'm dedicated to the membership there and the carrier membership, but I also will have offerings out to people who are not members.

Chris, Safety Dawg (23m 27s):
Yeah. And I mean, that's awesome because I don't know of many talents here in Southern Ontario with the experience and the wide variety of experience that you have, you know, the exposure to TCA the exposure to the OTA and CTA, running your own company. That's a lot of experience that people would be smart to use it, the kids so well,

Ray Haight (24m 1s):
I, you know, Chris, to me, dryer retention and stability of a workforce is key to profitability itself. Just key to, to being a good corporate citizen. I mean it, the prior to my chairmanship, I remember Jim O'Neill who was chairman then. So it's a, it's a, it's a moral obligation, very charming company should be safe. And the CA hires should not be scared, pulling up a soda truck. They should feel more secure there, then collect this other car.

Ray Haight (24m 34s):
And we've, you know, we have to, that's gotta be a cornerstone moving forward and, you know, funny enough, you know, and he was spot on in a number of different ways, but certainly spawn in the program that's been offered because it is predicated on Maslow's hierarchy of needs. And one of the face that not one of the DBAs of that program is safety. If you want to attract and retain drivers, you must be safe or they won't stay with you.

Ray Haight (25m 7s):
Then they'll all complete. It's that simple people have to be comfortable that they have are reasonable, you know, prospect of being safe and their day to day lives, or they will leave that situation or their families will make them be one or the other and you can pay all the money in the world. Then I stand there.

Chris, Safety Dawg (25m 25s):
Yeah, no, they need to understand safety. And I really encourage the listeners and viewers to click on the link below to watch the whole video. But one of the things that you talk about in my experience as a consultant and we're not competing consultants, cause you're, you are at a different aspect. A safety is one part of it, but

Ray Haight (25m 50s):
I've only been able to let you and I have called on you in the past. We've worked together on a few projects because I do not go into a carrier or, you know, you and I did a private fleet not long ago, a few years back, I guess now, but I do not get in the weeds on safety by prioritize safety. And I talked to carriers about, you know, how they should view safety and how they should support it on waving. But as far as getting into, you know, the, the, I just do not have the desire or the capability to be able to do when you knew Chris and your other safety professionals, getting down into those rigors and rules and drilling down on them and really understanding them and trying to debate other people.

Ray Haight (26m 31s):
I started young and about half way through that. I know how important this or trust me, but I don't, you know, I don't have to be with people like you out there in the world. I don't have know that stuff. I just, you know, I just give that over to you folks and you do you work your wonders with it and off they go,

Chris, Safety Dawg (26m 50s):
Oh, this is, that's kind of where I was alluding to is I'm in the safety department where you're in the company, the corporate structure department, you're at a higher level in the organization. But one of the questions I had about the Maslow hierarchy of needs when we get into the third level, most of my customers, I think, you know, they, they satisfy the physical needs. They satisfy the, the safety needs, but the social needs the communications in a lot of companies today.

Chris, Safety Dawg (27m 23s):
I see to be blunt, suck, you know, with the advent of satellite communications and text messaging, there's no personal communication happening anymore. Do you, do you agree with that? Do you disagree? How do you see technology rolling into social media and specifically communication as it pertains to retaining drivers?

Ray Haight (27m 54s):
You know, it's, it's, I'll speak to that, but I'll broaden it out of it. Chris, you know, there's been a thought for a long time, the turnover in this industry, it's just systemic. It's just part of it. It just comes with the friggin program and nothing could be further from the church. That's delusional to think that way high turnover is no more unwinnable than any other business channel challenge. That accompany is going to come up with. Whether that's putting on fit package, that's organizing your business.

Ray Haight (28m 26s):
It's a business challenge needs to be addressed and it needs to be tackled. And people, maybe it is really amazing to me, the companies, some of them choose to just live with it because it's part of the gig. I remember being on TC at Mount once and that's the development side, me ran a hundred truck fleet and they delivered vitals to churches in the us that was their sole customer. And at the time the ATA was advertising a numbers that were over a hundred percent journal.

Ray Haight (28m 55s):
This guy leaned into me. And so while we're at 9%, we're doing pretty good. I got, you know, really suck, you know, so yeah, no, I get a communication piece is paramount to this whole thing. I'll doubt about it. Starting with the, of course, a physical needs and safety needs. But before that Maslow's hierarchy of needs is credited. I had invited your audience to go and look it up because it's been off since 1947, I believe they were have as well, brought that up.

Ray Haight (29m 30s):
And it really kind of nailed the psyche of each and every one of us. And he profiled him or that, that we're all driven. Once we achieve a certain level, we've up to the next level. And I don't need that to be true. Now on a corporate level, there's a lot of companies have taken Maslow's hierarchy of needs in the manipulated general needs. And that's fine. In fact, I did the same thing because I contend when I talk to carriers that have high turnover, that the issue that you have to start with is that the majority of drivers don't believe too much of anything to say.

Ray Haight (30m 13s):
So unless you've got a firm foundation, then you can indicate all you want to tell them, you know, you can blow, smoke up funeral aware all day long and tell them how great they are. But if they don't believe what you're saying, it doesn't mean that that's why you start out with something called the foundation, which is really getting into things like a commitment to change the commitment to a value statement, commitment to a standard of behavior within your company that you don't break off of. I believe truck drivers are from Missouri.

Ray Haight (30m 45s):
Don't tell them what you're going to do should just do it. And they'll see it. You know, I love the London. police department have this and I've used it a number of times. I always give him credit, but on the side of the cards of cars, it says, deeds, not words. And to me, you start there and then you up there, but the communications and you're absolutely right. But I mean, these things, there's going to push off my program recently with carrier members of GCA. And none of the questions that I come in is all on this tape.

Ray Haight (31m 18s):
You know, how much does this cost? All these? Like if you're a high turnover, low turnover is a journey and it's a journey that you're going to be on for years and years, but you won't even know you're on that journey once you get it down to where you want it, because it's not a sudden going to work. It's fun. The relationships you have with people are real relationships because they are during a period of time, those folks don't work for you. So communication is a paramount to this whole thing.

Ray Haight (31m 49s):
People want to be recognized. They want to know what's going on. I could give you all kinds of, you know, situations where that have proven that Treme then into our company. But yeah, I, you know, if there are any my workshop, I typically say, you know, I gave you information cause I trust you, right? I have conversations with people because you trust them. You live in the communities you live in because you are comfortable. There, you have friends that you're comfortable with and you communicate with them.

Ray Haight (32m 20s):
If I don't communicate with you, it's because I really don't care about you. And I don't know your opinion. And I would prefer if you just went and did your job, that's what I've heard. Work with fluid. That's not sustainable.

Chris, Safety Dawg (32m 33s):
Yeah, no, I totally agree. And I think there's the disposability truck drivers, as you said, is a disgrace in our industry. And I know for one, I hated firing truck drivers because I recognize that I'm not firing one person I'm firing the driver, the spouse, the kids, the impact on the community. Possibly. Yeah.

Ray Haight (33m 1s):
The other thing that goes with that though, Chris, that this is the mindset I have with our people is we had to let somebody go. We failed them. How did we fail as first? We filled them because we shouldn't have hired them to begin with. They weren't a good fit. We hired a clean dryers pile, which is the last thing you want to do. We did find out from them what their expectations of us were. Didn't find out what their vision of success was because we want them to be successful.

Ray Haight (33m 31s):
You don't know how to invoice. I know what is they want to achieve and then help them achieve that you were on them. They're not going anywhere. So I looked at those things as we felt as person, how we do it.

Chris, Safety Dawg (33m 45s):
Yeah, absolutely. So Ray, I, to be respectful of your time and like to just start closing this down. So a couple of things that we talked about, engage through TCA, the measuring fleet program. How do you say it correctly?

Ray Haight (34m 6s):
Well, it's, it's kind of, it's a TCA TPP engagements, truckload carriers, association, truck, low profitability program in the age, which is primarily there to engage or staff.

Chris, Safety Dawg (34m 20s):
So, I mean, that's a huge benefit to being a member. The other thing that I would encourage listeners and Watchers to explore is the TCAs retention program. And on the show today is the TCA retention coach. So David, do you want to speak just before we wrap up either or an about Nat me and PTBI

Ray Haight (34m 46s):
Okay. Yeah. I I've been fortunate to be involved in both of those organizations and I was the chairman of both of them at one time, certainly professional truck drivers Institute has come a long way and it it's, it's just been mentioned many times in FMC essays, rulemaking, and it's been the platform for actually myself and Kim Richardson. And another gentlemen to the apprenticeship program on chair was predicated on and TTI.

Ray Haight (35m 16s):
So I know it's a great platform. It shouldn't be the minimum standard and proud to see Melton Ontario. And it's predicated to a large degree on PTBI and you know, the entry level driver training your role in the United States has been paused and manipulated and screwed over in the lobby to the point where it totally competency-based. It should come out in the next two years. This is one of those look, this is like waiting for the leash and when the frigging cop with nothing to happen, this is going on for decades, this thing, but you know, it's a great program is currently, I'm not sure what the numbers rate today, but believe somewhere between 10, 12,000 truck drivers, that annually are graduated to that, we've done a number of those courses.

Ray Haight (35m 59s):
Non-charter and I urge anybody that might be watching this and might be interested in becoming a truck driver to look for those schools that have that creditation. Then you will be insured with a minimum standard of training that will touch on everything you will need to get. You started on a successful career compared the worst thing that you want to do. And anybody watching this who's thinking of getting into this career is to price shop training that you got a low quality shop. And then when you find comparable qualities, then you might look at price with doona, do not go up there saying, you know, PTBI courses eight, 10, 12 grand, and I can get it over here.

Ray Haight (36m 41s):
Now, you know, for 3000 bucks, I mean, just don't do that. And you're putting yourself in jeopardy. It makes no sense. So that, that me, I just think the world on that knee and was the chairman of that 2008, 2009, and I've been involved with it prior to that, but the credit stations that they offer for those trucking properties that are listening include, you know, certified director of safety and safety assistants, certified record maintenance.

Ray Haight (37m 13s):
These credit stations are amazing to me because they really, they equate to some time upfront cost and time of your people at the back here, you will be much more profitable, much more profitable. The maintenance side will, you know, have that individual graft and maintenance program that they'll have to interior here too. It'll make them trend the common breakdown moment, stare, submit to Nat, be what they're going to do to correct those things, just so that individual can keep their accreditation.

Ray Haight (37m 49s):
And Chris, you're an instructor, Natalie, on the safety side of things, you get all the value of this and the experience and not to me, the other car, this cause, you know, this is just the way I am as a human baby, but the sharing of knowledge and, and the, the issues that you can share with your peers that you have maybe been frustrated with, that they may have experienced a safety around to me. I mean, I love being with the folks that are involved in all these, because there's passion there.

Ray Haight (38m 20s):
And if you ever get sick of this industry and say, I've had enough of this crap get around that group for any limited amount of time, then you will be reinvigorated about, you know, the quality of the people and the people's intent that involved in those things.

Chris, Safety Dawg (38m 37s):
Well, I think that goes to almost any association within our industry. If you're getting a little bit down, I'll hang around with some of the key people at OTA, because those are the passionate people at CTA, a truckload carriers at Matt, me. I mean, we all have you are who you associate with. And if you decide to associate with people that have negative attitudes, then that's how my attitude is going to be. But I choose to associate with people like you.

Chris, Safety Dawg (39m 8s):
Right.

Ray Haight (39m 9s):
Well, I appreciate it that Chris and I, my do so to just point out to you that, you know, ATA, OTA, CTA, all these associations, they don't do a very good job of telling people the things that they fend off and they're expensive to join. It costs a lot of money, but it's very expensive to live in Ottawa, to live in DC and to lobby against people who don't understand our industry, but have been given some power and some authority.

Ray Haight (39m 45s):
The next thing you know, we get some ridiculous legislations coming down the pipe and Saudi's got to be at the forefront of that and be trying to fend those things out. So, you know, a lot of those associations, they have that as their priority. And thank goodness they do now, TCA truckload carriers association has recently gotten the advocate advocacy ring to a winning to because they didn't see really a national association in the U S that was specific to a truckload chair.

Ray Haight (40m 20s):
So they've got into that and they've been very successful at it, but still their strength is education. It's profitability of their carriers. It's bringing them up to speed. It's being a conduit from carrier to carrier. I I've been involved with TCA since mid eighties that I, amongst all those things. It has been the, the lifelong friendships, the, the, when I was running a carrier to pick a phone up and say, Hey, I'm stuck on a stale somewhere.

Ray Haight (40m 52s):
Or Hey, you know, I need somebody to get under load form indices got up. And just the learning piece, you know, I do a big piece of the program called mentoring. Well, I got that from Kevin Burch. He's a lifelong friend of mine who passed 80 German NTC HR. And he showed me the whole program on a date and Ohio, what he was using for his drivers and not a huge impact on our business. So, you know, I'm a big association guy and I can ramble a bit on that, but, you know, I also feel heard to strong, but you know, if you're going to be in this industry to be a contributor to its overall success, not just your own, but you want to be successful.

Ray Haight (41m 28s):
I know by doing it.

Chris, Safety Dawg (41m 30s):
And I think that's a great ending point. Any rate your contact information will be down below. And I am courage our listeners and Watchers to, to reach out to you. If they've got questions, any last words, Ray, that you want to leave with.

Ray Haight (41m 48s):
I, you know, very, very strenuous times in an industry that is reliant on a margins that are not typically those of other industries. You know, when we retire above 97, 97 and a half percent operating ratios, it doesn't take much in the disruption of the, the flow of those lions to turn a positive into a negative. So, you know, I wish everybody the best it's time to get together. It's time to learn from your peers.

Ray Haight (42m 17s):
People are being successful in this for they're at least treading water. How are they doing it? Do you need to find out how then, then, you know, if there's access for that information, even TCA, they're putting stuff out daily is to all everybody there, they're not restricting it to nonmembers. So access to information is out there. And the other thing progress, I got to tell you, and I know this firsthand misery loves company, and you know, we're suffering, we've got red ink, things are covering now, how are you coping?

Ray Haight (42m 48s):
How are you doing? So it's not just me. There is shared standing here. So I suggest that the people in my course on a file and help the drivers, I mean, difficult role at the best of times, amazingly difficult role now. So thank you all for being out there. Then I applied her professionalism just to make it so much reviews there.

Chris, Safety Dawg (43m 14s):
Perfect. Thanks Ray, for appearing on the show. I appreciate you. Very,

Ray Haight (43m 18s):
No, thanks for having me, Chris. Thanks for having me. I appreciate it.

Chris, Safety Dawg (43m 24s):
I hope you love the show as much as I did. Please leave us a, like a thumbs up a review, a comment, a rating. It is. Thank you so much. And I do really appreciate your time and join us again next week for another exciting

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