Alex or the team can be reached:
Tel. 519-503-8347
Email: alex.bugeya@frontline-cvs.com
Website: www.frontline-cvs.com
Alex or the team can be reached:
Tel. 519-503-8347
Email: alex.bugeya@frontline-cvs.com
Website: www.frontline-cvs.com
And just before this episode begins a quick word from our sponsor. Hello everybody. We've got our next virtual national recruiting and retention event coming up April 22nd, from 10 till noon, we've put together a phenomenal lineup. Now you're going to hear about inspiring women in transportation. You're going to hear about virtual training and the importance of, and how that can play a role to help your organization. And we're also going to talk about new nuclear verdicts and how to get insurance during these, during these times to get registered. All you need to do is call Kim Seitz my hell at+1 800-771-8171. She's at extension two or three, and you can also email her as well. And welcome to another episode of the Dawg On-It Trucking Pawedcast. You know, we are all judged by the company that we keep and this week's guest. I'd be happy if I could be judged with him. All right. So let's bring in Alex Bugeya from Frontline Commercial Vehicle Services. What I would somewhat say is a competitive group, but not really when well, when we have in the trucking industry, the trucking people listening will understand this, those that are good competitors, you're proud to stand shoulder to shoulder with. And then there's the other competitors that you don't want to be associated with. And frankly, I'm happy to have you on the show. Hi Alex, how are ya? Good, Chris. Thanks very much. Really appreciate the opportunity. Yeah, I agree. A hundred percent. I mean, you know, it's always fantastic to align yourself with like-minded folks. So really happy to be on here with you, honestly, there's enough business out there for all of the good safety consultants and there's many of them that are good safety consultants that can assist, you know, I just wish the other safety consultants, weren't part of the industry. Yeah, a hundred percent. I mean, you know, there's always room for, for folks like yourself who do really good work and, you know, as I'm sure we'll get through over the show, we bring very different backgrounds and different perspectives. So there's always opportunities to sort of leverage our different backgrounds and our different skills for the betterment of the industry. So it's, it's too bad as individuals right there. If we don't take the same approach sometime, but, you know, I guess it is what it is. It is what it is. Now. That's a nice segue into your background. You know, little brief lines on the trucking side of it. I was in the safety and compliance department and then worked for an insurance company. What's your background? Yeah, so my background was with the enforcement side and the government side. So I spent 13 years with the Ontario ministry of transportation. I started in the enforcement program on road as an so I started Actually at the Windsor scale where I became certified to do the inspections and do a commercial vehicle enforcement. I spent about three years down in Windsor working there on the four Oh one before moving up to the Putnam scales just outside of London, spent about another three years there and then moved on to the Waterloo district office where I moved into the audit program. So during my time in Waterloo, I was basically doing facility audits of carriers all across the Southwestern Ontario. And I did that for about an additional four or five years. And then I concluded my career with the ministry of transportation by moving into St. Catherine, the, the head office. So I worked in the carrier enforcement program office there and spent some time overseeing training and development and spent some time overseeing the audit program. So, you know, that's a little bit about my background. It's sort of a diverse cross section across the enforcement program here in Ontario. So yeah, it's a little bit about me and, and sort of what I bring to the table. Well, I think you're right. It's absolutely hugely different. So to recap, you, you are a CVSA or sorry, you were a CVSA instructor, so you're working right at the scales crawling under the trucks, and then you got into the audit and enforcement program. And so you were actually performing audits for the listeners. He might know something about the audit program, then if you need the help, just, I I'm suggesting perhaps, you know, You know, certainly having done, done the audit program for a while, both sort of as the frontline officer and overseeing the program, you know, I do bring that perspective to the table. So one of the things, you know, that I can help out with is sort of understanding what that individual is looking at, what they're thinking when they come into your place of business, you know, having sat mat role, same thing on the side of the road, you know, what was that officer's looking at when they're screening or trucks coming through the scale, what's going through their mind when they're interacting with your drivers and your vehicle, and just, you know, little, little tips and tricks to help you move through the process as seamlessly as possible and avoid any unintended hiccups that may arise Well, that, and as I say, you, I think you said you concluded your career at MTO looking after the training and was that training of the new officers on the scales and in the audit program? Yeah, it was a little of both. So I was a basic training instructor for a couple of topics. So I instructed hours of service trip inspection, a few of the basics to, to new recruit to her coming into the program. And then it was also like you mentioned Chris, a certified CVSA instructor. So that's where I was certified by the commercial vehicle safety Alliance to instruct the driver and vehicle courses for the new officers who are looking to be certified to do the, the level one North American inspection. And then a number of years ago, you and a couple other people, I'm sure you'll introduce us to your partners in the sec, but you decided it was a good, good decision to leave MTO and start your own company go out on your own. Yeah. So we, we made that decision back in 2016. So initially there was two of us left that left myself and bud Neller who was, is also an ex MTO officer. So the two of us decided to leave MTO right at toward the end of summer, 2016. And we founded frontline at that time and sort of where our thought process was around that is, is we've accumulated a lot of knowledge and experience that we thought could be a benefits in the industry. And, you know, sometimes when you're in government, because, you know, you can't certainly show preference to certain organizations or you're bound around certain restrictions. There's not the opportunity to engage with the industry the way I'm free to do now. So we thought there was an opportunity to share our knowledge and, and we ventured out on our own and, you know, knock on wood so far. We've been lucky in it. It's worked pretty well. We've also had been lucky in the sense that we've been able to bring on a few other folks from various governmental sectors as well to help support us over the past couple of years. So that's sort of how we've come about to where we are today. And I know that one of those new additions, I say new, it's been with you for quite some time already, but he's out in Alberta. So you have an office in Alberta. Tell us about that. And how did that come about? Yeah, so we were fortunate enough to bring a health Brown on board with us. So I'll, you know, I knew from my time in St. Catherine's, I think worked with them in the carrier and post-treatment program office here in Ontario, you know, Alice left and went out to Alberta, which was a big loss for the Ontario program and a big benefit for Alberta. And she took on a position as a director of vehicle safety with Alberta transportation. So when else was, you know, ready to retire, we, we certainly reached out to him and brought him on board and he's been supporting us Western Canada with a lot of the, you know, the rules, regulations around commercial vehicle safety in the Western province. Alice has also gone ahead and gotten himself certified as a third party auditor in Alberta. So he is, he's now qualified to do the, the third party audits that there, The Alberta regime is a bit different than MTO. They can have people like you and I performing the audits. Yeah, Yeah, that's right. You know, Ontario has and shiny moved to move towards that model, but certainly Alberta's been following that for quite a few years. So we're happy to have a alpha on board to do that. Yeah. And it's kind of funny the one piece of that model, but I'm not, I wish Ontario would do part of that is I would love to be able to work for MTO and do audit. The one part that I kind of disagree with that Alberta does is as far as I understand, cause you have alpha out there you'd know that you can do the audit and then you can also work for that client later to help them clean up. Yeah. So I think, you know, and I don't, don't quote me on this because I'm not fully versed as much as alpha is, but I believe there are some restrictions that they've enacted because I think there were some concerns in that area where, you know, if you were delivering the audit and then consulting, there may be a conflict of interest in that area. So, you know, I do know certainly on the new carrier entrance reviews, so that's separate to the third-party audit program. There are restrictions on being able to work with the carrier, if you've engaged somebody to do a new carrier review. And, you know, for those of you who may not be aware, Alberta has a new carrier review program where if you obtain your safety fitness certificate within six months, you have to apply for one of these reviews done by again, a certified third-party. So in that case, there are restrictions around working with the carriers And we'll bring that up in, not that I want to spend a lot of time on that, but I heard Ontario is, has molded that over it as well. Have you heard the same? Yeah. I've heard that. And I know they took a number of steps, you know, the initial steps years ago before I left, or they introduced the commercial vehicle safety manual operator safety manual, which I know you're very well versed with Chris as sort of that, that first step. And then that new entrance, the NAEP exam that, that new carriers have to do a drive test. So those were the initial steps, you know, I, I know there's always been discussion around, you know, how to make the oversight and the education of new carriers, more robust, you know, where that takes us in the future. It'll be interesting to see. Yeah, it's unfortunate. I really think that we could do more for the nuke new entrance in the way of education explaining their responsibilities, even the test for the new CVR to get a new CPR, 30 questions. I think it is. And 32 bucks is not, it's not very tough, isn't it? Believe it or not. I wrote it several times. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, you know, there are certainly room, there is certainly room for improvement, you know, like you said, I think, especially with, with folks who are where trucking is not necessarily their primary core business. Right. You know, I know you've worked with lots of folks like that, where it's almost a necessary evil, you know, you're, you're using regulated vehicles to support your primary business, whether that's landscaping, plumbing, all types of things. So, you know, those industries in particular, not to pick on anyone, it's just, you know, your focus is elsewhere. So the more we can do to help those folks understand roles and responsibilities around operating commercial vehicles, the better and the better it is for everybody who's using the roadways. So I think there's certainly opportunity there. Yeah. Sometimes it's unfortunate the fellow with the pickup truck that he doesn't even understand register gross weight and he registers it for a number that he thinks this is good now. Yeah, absolutely. And I mean, it's tough, it's tough because it's almost more complex than those, those situations where you're in a vehicle where you're popping in and out of the regulated program, based on the usage, you know, there's exemptions for personal use pickup trucks, you know, to allow folks to use maybe their one pickup truck for business purposes during the week where they are regulated. And then, you know, you can go ahead and pick up groceries on the weekend where you're not so understanding how that works for you can be extremely complex. So in, in a funny way, sometimes the lighter duty vehicles, the regime is almost a little bit tougher for those folks because there's so many exemptions and sort of tools that you have to navigate to, to get the most benefit out of your vehicle. I was talking to one officer, I think this is kind of a funny story, but he said he stopped a pickup truck with a lawnmower in the back and it was a landscaper, but it was on a Friday night and the landscape, no hours of service. And he said, no, no, I'm just taking my lawnmower to the cottage to cut the grass. And the officer's going to, I believe you or not. Yeah, it's tough. I mean, the way those exemptions are written, it's, it's really tough to, to sort of make that distinction on the side of the road. I mean, I always say to folks, the clearer, you can make it, you know, whether it's documenting something or carrying something with you, the easier you're going to make it on yourself. If you do get pulled over to try and explain and justify, why did you use any exemption? Because it's, it's a tough distinction. I mean, you know, if you're a, a fencing or a deck company and you're, you've got a bunch of wood in the back and you're building your own deck, you know, making that judgment call on the side of the road can be really challenging for me to, to know whether it's for business purposes or not. And you know, one of the things people may not realize is the way the law is structured is the onus to prove the exemption falls on the individual. So, you know, yes, it's up to the officer to prove a violation taking place, but then it's up to the individual to prove that an exemption they can play it. So it's kind of a tough one. You know, like I said, the more you can do to sort of justify how you fall into that exemption. It's going to make your life a lot easier in the long run. It just kind of funny. I mean, the landscapers were picking out a little bit tone, towing operations are relatively new to CVOR as well. Although they've got their exemptions, I've got a couple of joint clients and I keep forgetting when I said, well, how are you handling hours of service? No, no CRISPR exempt Chris. Yeah, that's right. I mean, it's, it's interesting to see, I mean the tone regime, I guess that's been around for a few years now, it's hard to believe time flies. And I think that came in right around 2016 as well. So yeah, the, you know, understanding how these various vehicles fall in and what exemptions they can take care of. It's tough. I mean, one of the things people may not know as well as there were a recent changes to the HTA around electronic record keeping to, to better support the ability to do electronic audits and things like that. So, you know, that's another area where if you're working to keep up to date on what's going on in the industry from a regulatory standpoint, you know, Chris was, I know you're very much aware the MTO is starting to move to some electronic audits. So, you know, correspondingly they've made changes to the law that allow for that. So it's really important that you're prepared in that, in that instance, if that were to happen. Yeah. Have you been able to assist clients through an electronic audit? If so, how did it go? So I, I have not had the pleasure of assisting through an official electronic audits, you know, with the wonderful COVID world we're in right now, we've actually moved to doing some electronic audits ourselves from a, from a mock audit perspective, which sort of would help prepare for an official electronic audit. And there are some there's some benefits and some challenges to that obviously, you know, no different than paper, the better organized you are in terms of how you're organizing your electronic file is going to make that process so much easier. You know, one of the challenges would be if you are still keeping everything in paper, transitioning that into electronic, you know, maintenance records, for example, that that can be a pretty big undertaking. So, you know, it's, it's going to be a bit of a learning curve for everybody. How about yourself has it? Well, I have assisted right now to voluntary audits, so, and they both went well, thank goodness, but it is, it's a challenge because there's no personal relationship. The officer doesn't get to see the facilities for instance. Yeah, for sure. I mean, I can only imagine, you know, that was a big piece of when you were an auditor going in, you know, you get a feel for the organization, for the individuals when you come in, just in terms of, you know, the organizational layout, you know, how organized everything is and it gives you a sense of comfort or, you know, to be frankly the opposite, depending on what you're encountering during that audit. So I can imagine that's a real challenge during the electronic process. Yeah. Now, just while I've got you before we, we're going to switch subjects in just a minute, but I want to know if you, what you know about ASRA and, and has it, I'm sure you've heard of it. The alternative safety risk assessment for voluntary audits. How has it moving along with your connections at MTO? I'm looking for some insight scoop here. So I don't have a lot of insight information, you know, I know it's come about. I mean, we've been involved in completing a few of the, the Asmara responses, you know, whether or not, you know, my understanding is it started out as a pilot program and whether or not it's going to continue into a more formal program. I'm not fully aware, you know, from our perspective in the few that we've done, it's worked pretty well. I think one of the big things is obviously it's always incumbent on the individuals who are responding to that to make sure that they're doing so in a, in a, you know, truthful, upfront manner. So, you know, it's, it's certainly got its benefit. I think it has got its place. So we'll, we'll see where it goes from there. I was excited about Azure when I first got involved, because what I mean as a taxpayer, all th all of these voluntary audits that are being forced upon carriers by the insurance companies basically are taking resources away from, you know, we're not spending our tax payer dollars really well when we're auditing good companies, because the insurance company doesn't like conditional rating is what I'm trying to say. Yeah. A hundred percent. I mean, you know, we're like you said, we're, this is a really good tool, is, you know, somebody who's failed an audit back in 2006, you know, 15 years ago, they've been running a really good operation. And for whatever reason, they just have not gotten around to passing a voluntary audit to get rid of that conditional rating. And, you know, their, their CVR metrics aren't presenting any risks. And really at the end of the day, it's just this label that they need to get rid of. So from that perspective, I agree with, you know, the eyes was a really, really good tool to better allocate resources where they're needed, you know, there's, there's more than enough carriers out there, unfortunately that, you know, need that oversights that need that touch point with the ministry. So, you know, from my perspective, that's, that's a good place to use the resources. Yeah. And I've had a conversation within the last several weeks with the fellow who I believe is in charge of asthma and it's not going away yet. It seems to get it going right along. Of course, you, you probably know what I'm talking about when I say he lives here in Hamilton as well. I found out I didn't realize that that'll remain under the table, but because we were actually having a conversation about, I sent cur an email and he was the one that responded. And of course I knew that he was in charge of it. So one thing led to another, all right, frontline commercial vehicle solutions. What services do you bud elf and the rest of your team offer? Yeah, so we, we offer a variety of services, obviously, you know, I would say our core services are the traditional, you know, what I would refer to as the traditional consulting services. So things like a mock audit, you know, driver training, driver meetings, those types of things are sort of a big core piece of our business. We also do then offer some supports around regulatory interpretations development of, you know, safety manuals, that type of thing. So those sort of fall into our more core traditional consulting services. We also do have another branch where we do sort of help folks, particularly from the United States, become more familiar with operations in Canada and help them understand, you know, as they venture into the Canadian market, what the differences are, you know, how obviously, you know, down there, because it's federally managed with FMC CSA, and we're all provincially regulated here through the various NSCS and CVOR, it's quite different. So we do spend quite a bit of time with helping folks navigate, you know, even some Canadian companies, the, the various differences through, through the provinces, as you, as you work your way across the country, I'm smiling at for the people who are just listening to this, I'm smiling and starting to laugh because I'm thinking of June the 12th and how it may affect our American friends. Do you want to elaborate on what I'm talking about? Yeah, absolutely. So, you know, we've got the ELD mandate coming about here in Canada, you know? Yes. The United States has had it for quite some time over, over two years now, or, sorry, I shouldn't say coming up on two years where the full year full yield mandate has been placed, but you know, the fact that we require sort of certified third party devices here is going to be a big change from what's accepted as in the us. And then, so, you know, American carriers are a lot of, you have to sure that their devices are certified for use in Canada. And then folks here. Yeah. It's a big, if you're not ready, it's going to be a big, a big adjustment. Yeah. For Canadian only companies about, sorry, first of all, this is a federal regulation. Have you heard yet when Ontario might enact the regulation for Ontario, only companies or other provinces may enact for interrupt provincial companies? Yeah. I haven't heard anything about Ontario. I know they did sort of a pre-consultation reach out. I think they issued a survey back in February through the regulatory registry where they, they gathered some feedback on how they were, you know, to guide their approach for, for managing an ELD mandate for, you know, carriers that solely operate within the province. But in terms of next steps, I haven't heard anything specific in terms of the other provinces. You know, the only thing I've really heard of which I'm sure you're aware of Chris was the announcement that Cato came out of Quebec where connec indicated, you know, they're not going to be in a position to enforce in the LV mandates until they update their regulations sometime in 2022. But beyond that, we're kind of all waiting with bated breath to hear, you know, what's going to be happening and all the other provinces. Yeah. Now I did read, now, this is obviously out official when I say I read in a trucking magazine that MTA, sorry that Ontario had two readings of an ELD bill and it only takes three for it to be enacted in law. And I was the article said, basically they cut and pasted the federal Rick, but there was no enforcement dates mentioned in the article. Like it sounded to me like Ontario was ready to jump on it as soon as they decided it was time. But as you know, we're in a health situation now, I think all the government resources are several of them are distracted taking care of necessary things. You know, I don't want to get into politics, but damn, I'm glad I'm not a politician right. At the moment because you can't win for losing, but have you heard that as well? That Ontario is ready when they decided the right time? So that's a, that's a tough one. So I think, you know, and I could be mistaken on this. I did remember there was a bill brought forward and I can't remember if it was actually a private member's bill that was brought forward by, by the Ontario government around ELD and updating, you know, section one 90 of the highway traffic act, which deals with hours of service. But I, I haven't really heard anything more on what the status of that is. And I haven't even heard that is going to be sort of the intended path forward, or if that's going to be, you know, a different approach. You know, I can say from my time having been sort of in government, there would be also a lot of work needs to, that needs to be done to regulation five, five, five Oh six, the hours of service regulation. Wouldn't significant updates as well to, to support, you know, the, the ELD mandate. So I'm not sure, you know, whether, what I'd like you said, Chris, that's just sort of waiting in the wings until the regulatory work is done. And then they'll enact everything at some point in the near future. It'll, it'll be interesting to see how it plays it. Going back to your scale enforcement days, different truck rolls over up to the scale federally regulated carrier after June the 12th and nevermind that there might be soft enforcement or whatever happens. We there's a lot of questions we don't know yet, but assuming that it's a hard enforcement date, so on June, the 12th truck rolls up, they don't have a, an approved ELD in their truck. If in Ontario, the highway traffic act hasn't been amended yet, what tools do the officers have that you know of? Great, Great question. Yeah. So I mean that that's going to present, you know, a challenge and it's, it's one of the conundrums we're in right now where, you know, I get asked, well, what happens in Ontario as of June 12th? Because here in Ontario, we've always only enforced regulation five, five, five Oh six and the highway traffic act. We haven't historically enforced the MBTA, the motor vehicle transport act or the federal hours of service regulation. So, you know, without knowing what direction they're going in, you know, if I were to say, based on what happened in the past, you know, where it's solely enforced through the highway traffic act and five, five, five Oh six, those would need to be updated to provide enforcement with the tools for, for full enforcement. So there may be other things in the work that I'm not aware of, but yeah, it's certainly a challenge. Well, I just, as I say, just to remind our listeners your answer, you've been out of the government circles since 2016. So you don't have any insight knowledge. I was just wondering, because every ticket I've ever seen is always re written based on the highway traffic app. I didn't even know that. So you're, you said if I heard you correctly, that the officers could possibly enforce federal regulations, Theoretically, it's not something that's been done done in Ontario. So for example, in the Western provinces, there is a distinction between how they enforce on provincial carriers versus how they enforce on federally regulated carriers and for federally regulated carriers, they'll issue offenses under the federal legislation. That's not something historically has happened in Ontario, but that's not to say that that could change, you know, but I would caution anyone from taking the approach of Aw, you know, we're going to be okay, you're going to want to just assume June 12th, you know? Yes, there's soft enforcement. We, we understand that, but you know, work toward getting ready as soon as possible. It's we're heading into interesting times. Yeah, absolutely. It's, it's, there's a lot of unknowns around this right now. So it's, it's going to be an interesting transition. And here we are late April recording. This we're only really just weeks away from June the 12th. And we have a lot of questions. Yeah. There's a lot, I mean, you know, I know you're aware of that. One of the big questions out there is there is none, no devices that are certified as, as of this moment right now. Right. There's nothing posted as a certified device for Canada. So I know that's, that's creating a lot of concerns for, for folks out there. So, you know, I'm sure we'll see stuff come out in the near future, but that's certainly is an added challenge for folks as we move into June 12th. Yeah. I don't know if you've had any conversations with some of the providers, but I, I have, and several of them have told me, we submitted and at least one of them is more than eight weeks ago and they still haven't heard a word and I checked the, the site probably like you do and nobody's approved yet. Yeah. I mean, you know, I've, I've talked with a few providers as well, and I know there's been some, you know, challenges on their end as well. So, you know, they're, they are working through the process and it'll be interesting to see, you know, it'll be interesting to see once the first one hits hits the list, so to speak if the approved list, whether sort of that opens the flood Gates, right. We see the one hit there and then we, we see it roll out a little more frequently from that on, but time will tell. It'll be interesting. Now I know frontline is based in Kitchener. Do you, what boundaries do you have if any of a service area? So we we've actually worked all across Canada. So we are, we are based in Kitchener, but we service clients, you know, right out to Vancouver islands. So if you know, geography obviously does play a part in sort of what we can offer, but we're always willing to work with clients to find solution in this new, online world that we're in. It certainly opens up a lot of, a lot of possibility. So yeah. You know, we've, we've been lucky in that sense and that we've got a chance to work with people really all across the country. It's, it's really neat. And we can nowadays literally work with people right across the country. So for our listeners and Watchers, if you need, and X, M T O officers on your side, or if you need, what was formerly and an MTO officer who then went on to run Alberta's equivalent of MTO on your side, you might want to reach out to frontline Alex in the group, Alex, last word. What would you, did we cover everything that you wanted to get out today to our listeners and Watchers? Yeah, absolutely. I think I just, you know, like I said earlier, Chris, it's great to have the opportunity to sit down with you and chat through this. And it's always a pleasure to sit down with folks like yourself, who I know are passionate about this, and really bring a lot to the table and have a ton of knowledge in this area. So I really appreciate it. It's been fun. Well, thanks so much for coming on the show. I really appreciate it. And as I say, I love to be associated with other like-minded people. And I think that's where you and I are. So I appreciate Alex coming on the show. I appreciate frontline for a green to appear on the show. And hopefully everybody's learned a little bit more about Alex in Fronline Commercial Vehicle Services. I hope you love the show as much as I did. Please leave us a, like a thumbs up a review, a comment, a rating if thank you so much. And I do really appreciate your time and join us again next week for another exciting injured.