Kim’s undergrad degree was in Education- (Primary teaching) , which led to over 20 years teaching in schools both in Australia and abroad. Her teaching experience was across the general classroom, though primarily in the performing and visual arts disciplines. Her masters research was conducted in a school with teachers, looking at therapeutic arts-based processes as reflective practice in their teaching- https://miecat.edu.au/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/kimfox_2011lr.pdf
Though passionate about teaching, an inner conflict grew with a seeming shift in systemic values in relation to those values that guided her practice. After wrestling with weighing up how best to navigate this growing dissonance, she left mainstream education in 2011.
In addition to her research work, Kim currently teaches at a not-for-profit tertiary institution in Melbourne, called ‘The Miecat Institute, ’www.miecat.edu.au , where her values connected to education are more aligned. She is involved in delivering the Masters in Therapeutic Arts Practice, and supervises students. She also offers Arts Therapy to private clients in her private practice, both remotely and in person (when that option is available!)
For private sessions email: theartofbecoming1@gmail.com
Kim’s undergrad degree was in Education- (Primary teaching) , which led to over 20 years teaching in schools both in Australia and abroad. Her teaching experience was across the general classroom, though primarily in the performing and visual arts disciplines. Her masters research was conducted in a school with teachers, looking at therapeutic arts-based processes as reflective practice in their teaching- https://miecat.edu.au/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/kimfox_2011lr.pdf
Though passionate about teaching, an inner conflict grew with a seeming shift in systemic values in relation to those values that guided her practice. After wrestling with weighing up how best to navigate this growing dissonance, she left mainstream education in 2011.
In addition to her research work, Kim currently teaches at a not-for-profit tertiary institution in Melbourne, called ‘The Miecat Institute, ’www.miecat.edu.au , where her values connected to education are more aligned. She is involved in delivering the Masters in Therapeutic Arts Practice, and supervises students. She also offers Arts Therapy to private clients in her private practice, both remotely and in person (when that option is available!)
For private sessions email: theartofbecoming1@gmail.com
Elizabeth Diacos: 0:01
Welcome to the Get out of Teaching podcast presented by Larksong Enterprises. I'm your host, Elizabeth Diacos. On the show we'll look at the who, what, why, where, when and how of moving out of your Education career and into a life you love. We'll meet ex-teachers, delve into what we love about teaching and how to translate that into something new. We will talk to people who can support and inspire us as we make the transition and work on identifying the legacy we want to leave in the world. So come along for the ride as we Get out of Teaching. Episode 13. Hi, everyone and welcome to the show. On today's episode, I'm interviewing my ex-colleague and ex-teacher Kim Swan. Welcome to the show, Kim.
Kim Swan: 0:49
Hello. How are you? Elizabeth,
Elizabeth Diacos: 0:51
Great to see you
Kim Swan: 0:52
.Good to see you
Elizabeth Diacos: 0:52
OK, Kim. So you're an ex-teacher and in fact, we did work together. But before we met, you were already a teacher. What got you into teaching in the first place?
Kim Swan: 1:06
I think we'd have to say originally I had a passion for people and the passion for learning and, I still do, but my choice to go into teaching was driven by a hope that I could somehow contribute to young people's experience of education and improving themselves.
Kim Swan: 0:00
mmm, great
Kim Swan: 1:30
Yeah, I remember. Remember my, you know, classic icons back when I was at school and and the influence they had on me, and I just , yeah, wanted to somehow be part of giving young people a positive experience in Education.
Elizabeth Diacos: 1:50
And so where were you teaching? What was the context and what year level?
Kim Swan: 1:55
I started teaching in 1988 at a school....so I was in primary for the majority of my teaching career and my first job was a music drama specialist for 800 children. And that was the beginning of a wonderful journey, and over the years, over well... more than 25 years of being in the system, I inhabited many roles. So, coordinating teams and teaching in mainstream general teaching roles and specialist roles yet mainly performing arts and visual arts in the end.
Elizabeth Diacos: 2:45
Right...so that's where we met. When we started working together, you were performing arts teacher, and then eventually we also... we started to share the performing and visual arts, and actually, I'm just going to throw in a little plug for Zoe, your daughter, who created the music for the intro and an outro for for all these episodes. So she's the... she created the Get out of Teaching jingle so...
Kim Swan: 0:00
Good on you Zoe!
Elizabeth Diacos: 3:07
Go Zoe!! So if you want to find out more about Zoe, she she's in a band called Zoe Fox and Rocket Clocks, so feel free to check her out. But anyway, that was enough of a plug for Zoe. So, because I talked to a lot of people about this process of getting unstuck and, what I encounter there is a lot of fear.
Kim Swan: 3:32
Yep
Elizabeth Diacos: 3:32
So, what would you say to that? How how do you manage that fearful state and still we're forward.
Kim Swan: 3:42
I'm reminded of something that I learned when doing a drama major at Uni. So our lecturer talked about inner-outer projection and outer-inner projection. And so, for example, if we needed to play the role of an old woman, we could think about being an old woman and let the acting come from that (?) or we could put on a musty...
Kim Swan: 0:00
Sorry could you just repeat that...you just broke up
Kim Swan: 4:20
...that inner-outer projection would be trying to conjure the role, the identity from the inside out. So... thinking about what it would be like to be an old woman and letting the acting come from that place versus putting on a, a musty smelling jacket. This is going to be very stereotypical...I apologise. So no offence intended. I've got enough greys to be allowed to say this. I'm an old woman. (laughtter) No, but grab hold of a walking cane, put on a grey wig, a hat that an old lady might wear and see how easy it is for the role to come once you actually look the part. So I guess... to relate that to your question, my, my encouragement would be to, you know, take small steps daily to do things and actually get your body moving in new ways. There's so much online that you can access... research and meditation techniques and things as well, but find ways to do something, so to stay stagnant, you're not going to shift anything but to take that little risk, and maybe even if it's make one phone call going organise to get your CV updated or just those small, practical steps that actually get you moving. Then the momentum can pick up, and before you know it, you've travelled quite a way.
Elizabeth Diacos: 6:06
So you're talking about embodying or embracing, actively embracing the change that you need to make so that when you begin doing that, then the fear subsides because you're taking action, you're not... you're not stuck there anymore.
Kim Swan: 6:25
That's right. But also can I just add, you know, to acknowledge that that fear is there for a really valid reason. So it's not too pooh pooh the voice of fear and try and eradicate it or squash it. But more: "How can I have a relationship, a healthy relationship with this fear and not be consumed by it or, you know, crippled by it?" But actually, how can I, can... How can I acknowledge that... Yes, this fear is here to keep me safe and keep me from making a really stupid decision that might be harming myself and the people I love. But actually, can I balance that with small steps in in the direction that you want to head?
Elizabeth Diacos: 7:16
Great. So it's not. It's not really like.... if you think about the few response you've got flight or fight, or for
Kim Swan: 7:24
freeze or feign death,
Elizabeth Diacos: 7:26
Or, fawning, too, where you sort of kow-tow, which I think probablya lot of teachers do in the workplace. So...so what is? I don't know if we can come up with a word that starts with "F" to deal with that one. But what is it when you start to just take those small steps out? It's like a tentative movement in the direction that you want to go. It's not really flight, is it?
Kim Swan: 7:48
No way. Not even close to flight it's...I don't know if it can start with "F" Elizabeth,
Elizabeth Diacos: 0:00
OK...
Kim Swan: 7:54
but it's like a little, But, oh maybe it's a foraging or something. Foraging
Elizabeth Diacos: 7:59
I like that ...
Kim Swan: 8:01
foraging...foraging could be the word. It's just like you're bringing curiosity out there. You're looking, you're assessing, but you're actually still taking steps in the direction you want to go
Elizabeth Diacos: 8:17
Maybe, yeah, you're creeping out of that situation just slowly. Yeah, Ok we'll have to come up with the word I like foraging, though I think that could be the one.
Kim Swan: 8:28
(Laughs) Okay,
Elizabeth Diacos: 8:30
so what was the tipping point that made you decide to get out of teaching?
Elizabeth Diacos: 8:36
There's a story....Um, without taking the whole podcast time allowance up answering this question, I think what it comes down to is a clash of core values
Elizabeth Diacos: 8:51
. OK
Kim Swan: 8:55
I became aware that the system was really becoming quite focused on measuring output and achievement in a way that made me feel like quality teaching and learning was secondary to that. And the more I questioned that and challenged that, the more I found myself becoming that voice of dissonance in the staff meetings and
Kim Swan: 9:23
Right
Kim Swan: 9:24
I didn't like who I was becoming outside of the classroom, and it seemed to escalate a bit where I just felt exasperated, the, you know, and aware that what was being asked was unsustainable practise from my perspective,
Elizabeth Diacos: 9:46
yeah, OK
Kim Swan: 9:47
...and I just saw good, really talented people running like maniacs all day to try and meet Unsus...unachievable goals and just the pressure of passing that on to their students. It just felt like a mad frenzy. And when I realised I couldn't change the system from within one day, I just had a bit of an epiphany and thought, Hang on a minute. Nobody's forcing me to be here. The conflict for me was that I really love teaching. I love working with students and so I felt that my classroom practise was still really going well, and I was having, you know, feedback to support that. That sense from parents from students from colleagues alike, even from the leadership. Yet there was no room for any conversation around how things could be different. And that was the tipping point. So I thought, Hang on a minute. If nobody is forcing me to be here, and I'm becoming more and more disgruntled about things that I can't control or can't change, then I'm an idiot If I stick around and
Elizabeth Diacos: 11:07
yeah
Kim Swan: 11:07
become bitter and twisted and just start then becoming toxic , actually to the environment around me. So I figured it was better for me and for everybody to take the leap.
Elizabeth Diacos: 11:20
Yeah. And so what was your biggest fear when that... when you were at that point where you were ready to take that leap? What was your fear around the transition?
Kim Swan: 11:30
Only one? I had so many fears. I thought... I actually feared that I would end up living under a bridge. That... that's no joke. I just thought, Oh, my goodness. How will I sustain myself? I had two children in high school. Ah, we were renting at the time, and I just want to sure how I was going to be able to transfer my skills outside of a system that I had known my whole working life. Yes, I just I I actually, surprisingly had no confidence in my own ability even though I was showing up and working with young people in many cool ways everyday. When it came to the point of thinking about how I could step outside of that context, I was really terrified.
Elizabeth Diacos: 12:20
Yeah, I think that's a really common experience too, that people, can't see the possibilities or that they can't see how their skill set can translate to somewhere else.
Kim Swan: 0:00
Mmmm
Elizabeth Diacos: 12:31
....and they're worried that other people won't value what they've got. Yes. Yeah, yeah. Okay, so So how did you overcome it?
Kim Swan: 12:42
I....look, I really accessed the good people I have around me as trusted resources. So I talked to friends...I talked to other colleagues... I had always been, I guess my to my good fortune. I'd always been really passionate about the relationship between arts, the arts and wellbeing. You know, Arts-health and so I had already started a part time study schedule. I started Graduate Diploma in Creative Arts therapy and then
Elizabeth Diacos: 13:29
I was a participant in that as well, so, yeah...
Kim Swan: 0:00
you were...
Elizabeth Diacos: 13:33
that was great fun.
Kim Swan: 0:00
Yes, You along with a lot of other, well, a group of other staff who generously gave up their time to be part of that research really made a huge impact on my inspiration and passion for the cause. And then I went on to do further study. So I then upgraded to do with Masters in Therapeutic Arts practise... same field and so that actually was part of my transition. I had no idea whether that would go anywhere, but I was killing up to see if I could somehow work in ways that explicitly married Arts and Health and Arts and well being, so transitioning out what ended up happening was I ended up getting some part time like sessional teaching work at the Uniwhere I was doing my study
Elizabeth Diacos: 14:36
Yeah, I remember that? Okay. And so So when when you were doing that, you were doing the was it the Masters by then?
Kim Swan: 14:45
I had just completed the Masters when when I decided to...I took leave from my job. So I didn't make the leap straight away. I took 12 months unpaid leave, and I thought, I'll just see what happens. So I didn't want to be a fool about it and just leap off into the void and hope to build my wings on the way down kind of thing. But having that 12 months leave, really just meant that I had a safety net. But I knew that I really didn't want to have to go back into that system if the system was the same. So I did sessional work and really enjoyed it and then became more regular. And I started up my private practice as an arts therapist, creative arts therapist as well,
Elizabeth Diacos: 15:42
Right. So you were working for the university or for the tertiary institution. And also you had a private practise on the side and I can see in your background there you're in your studio space. For those of you on the podcast, Kim has a quirky little studio space which is... has pictures all over the walls in the background and also a big stack of papers on one side. What's the stack of papers you've got there?
Kim Swan: 16:06
Okay. Welcome, to my nightmare! This is my doctorate in therapeutic arts practise, which I'm trying to finish, So as well, as working in that tertiary education institute I'm also still trying to learn more about arts and health and that's been a very interesting process.
Elizabeth Diacos: 16:35
Great. Okay, so you've got all this stuff going on. You've got your private practise, You're working and you're still completing the Prof Doc.in Creative Art Therapy. So with all this going on for you, if you just cast your mind back to when you were about to leave and what that felt like for you and that feeling of not knowing what would come next,
Kim Swan: 0:00
Yep
Elizabeth Diacos: 17:01
what advice would you give from where you're standing now, to someone who's feeling stuck and maybe on the the brink of making that change or the precipice.... Or however you want to describe it? Or maybe they're in the mud? I'm not sure. but...What advice would you give to someone who's feeling stuck?
Kim Swan: 17:21
I would really encourage you to, if you haven't already. Really do some reflective practise on what your core values are ...what really matters to you. What ...where are your passions? Where's the energy that makes you come alive and start to put tendrils out in those directions? You know, one of the things that really helped me was to reflect on the things that I really loved about the job and, and then reflect on the things that really weren't floating my boat, so to speak. I'm trying to be really very appropriate right now. But I knew that I came to understand that autonomy... So from from an experience...one moment, which I won't go into but an experience in the mainstream system...
Elizabeth Diacos: 18:27
OK. It's just don't name names. You could tell us; the story, just don't name names
Kim Swan: 18:33
I had a medical appointment which I had scheduled during my APT planning time. And I notified the school to let them know. And there was a big kerfuffle and a bit of a power ...a bit of a power dynamic played out where I realised...oh, well, my experience was that they owned me and that I didn't have any autonomy to make that decision in the service of my well being.And I no, look, sorry.
Elizabeth Diacos: 19:06
Just let me get clear on that. So it was your planning time, but it was during the school day.
Elizabeth Diacos: 19:11
It was during the school day
Elizabeth Diacos: 19:11
You had like a free period where you could theoretically..
Kim Swan: 19:16
Zip out to the doctor and come back again
Elizabeth Diacos: 19:18
theoretically could leave the work environment. But actually, not really
Kim Swan: 19:22
Not really. And so that became something... So I guess my advice would be: Look for emotional triggers. So where are those moments where you're actually being emotionally triggered? Because my sense is, and the research that I'm doing supports that actually, that's where you'll find what matters. You know, that's not an original idea, but it's certainly a great way to follow the sign posts to find out. Okay, this is a non negotiable. I cannot be in an environment where I'm not trusted enough to have autonomy and where one person's going to, be punitive and make me feel like I'm actually... I don't even want to say child, I mean you treat children with respect... This was really disrespectful treatment and so, that was a great indicator to me....Hang on a minute! I want to move towards a working environment where I am treated with respect and where I am trusted to be able to do the work and I actually am lucky enough to say that I've actually landed in a fantastic work environment where, you know, there's work to be done and we're tru.... the employees are trusted to find their way to do that work, and if you need to have a doctor's appointment or something like that in your planning time, you do that? Yeah.
Elizabeth Diacos: 20:55
Yeah, so There's a real, um you've.... But you've actively sought that environment out. You didn't just find it. It was an active process where you went in search of it.
Kim Swan: 21:06
I didn't want to go from the frying pan into the fire, so to speak...So that's where I think it's really important to have a bit of a reflective practise around what your values are and what matters to you, and follow that direction
Elizabeth Diacos: 21:23
Yeah. Okay, so So if someone wanted to work with you now in your private practice, what does that look like? Do they have to come to you. So you're based in Melbourne. In Australia, they have to come to your your rooms or is there....can it be online?
Kim Swan: 21:39
Yeah... This morning I had a client who is in Western Australia, whose ...which is on the opposite coast to where we are. And so I use Skype or zoom as, an online vehicle to offer sessions. The only thing is that I really encourage people to have access to some basic art making materials at their end... doesn't have to just be visual. We use movement. Sound. Yeah, as you know...Eliza!
Elizabeth Diacos: 0:00
I know, I know! So, to get in touch with you. What would be the best way for someone to do that?
Kim Swan: 22:30
Well, seeing as my website is under construction at the moment, the best way to get in touch with me is through my email, which is theartofbecoming1@gmail.com.
Elizabeth Diacos: 22:50
All right, cool. So I'll put that into the show notes for this episode. So if people are interested in getting in touch with you, they can find them there
Kim Swan: 22:58
Great
Elizabeth Diacos: 23:13
and it will also be in the transcription of the episode as well. So you'll come up in a couple of ways.
Elizabeth Diacos: 23:13
Oh, lovely
Elizabeth Diacos: 0:00
So people come for different reasons. Sometimes professionals come to me for professional supervision, which is mandatory in some fields and optional in others. And that's where we use creative processes to reflect in a professional practise on DH work. That way, the majority of my clients on the people who work with come to me for therapeutic reasons, and that can be for many, you know, how long is a piece of string? So sometimes couples will come when they're needed to navigate relation of challenges Children might come when they're navigating family trouble or challenges that might be do Teo Marriage breakdown, family violence, History of trauma on DH. You work with people across the border many, many, many different reasons, like classic therapeutic reasons.
Elizabeth Diacos: 24:31
So, Kim, before we wrap this up today and I've got a curly question for you to finish with,
Kim Swan: 24:37
Okay,
Elizabeth Diacos: 24:38
what's the legacy that you want to leave in the world?
Kim Swan: 24:43
Ah...What a great question.
Kim Swan: 24:47
I would love to be able to be on my deathbed and look back at my life and smile because I have seen people. And I know that sounds really You know
Elizabeth Diacos: 25:07
Airy Fairy claptrap is what we're searching for here?
Kim Swan: 25:17
(Laughs) I feel like if I could, you know, use these, creative processes....so I'm a big believer in creativity being the centre of everything that needs to happen to make this world a better place. I hope that I can leave the world having contributed creatively but more than just creatively from an authentic, heartfelt connection with people ...so, yeah, helping people feel empowered to be a better version of themselves... to move from stuck places into more preferred ways of being. If I could do that, then I feel like I'd be doing okay.
Elizabeth Diacos: 26:09
Yeah, That sounds like a wonderful legacy to leave for the world. Kim Swan, thank you so much for coming on to the Get out of Teaching podcast today. It's been an absolute pleasure talking to you.
Elizabeth Diacos: 26:19
Thanks for having me, Elizabeth. And yeah, wish all the best to everybody who might listen to this, if you're in a time of transition, may the force be with you, and you're not alone. I guess that's the thing I'd like to say. You're not alone.
Elizabeth Diacos: 26:39
You've been listening to the Get out of Teaching podcast presented by Larksong Enterprises with your host, Elizabeth Diacos. Do you know someone else who could benefit from hearing more stories of hope and transition from teachers all around the world? Please take a moment to share this and other episodes via your podcast app. Each share helps me reach listeners just like you who could benefit from this content. The Get out of Teaching podcast is proud to be part of the Experts on Air Podcast network. For show notes and other resources, please visit larksong.com.au/podcast