In this no-holds-barred episode, Ally Forbes shares the joy she had in her Education career and the devastating turn it took when she was forced out of the profession due to the relentless bullying of her colleagues.
Hear how, in spite of the ongoing mental health challenges facing her now that she has left teaching, Ally has begun to work on a plan for living her best life beyond the classroom.
Like many teachers, Ally is a true creative at heart and has begun a small business as a designer and maker of bespoke knitted beanies.
You can find her work at https://www.etsy.com/au/shop/JellyBeaniesAU
In this no-holds-barred episode, Ally Forbes shares the joy she had in her Education career and the devastating turn it took when she was forced out of the profession due to the relentless bullying of her colleagues.
Hear how, in spite of the ongoing mental health challenges facing her now that she has left teaching, Ally has begun to work on a plan for living her best life beyond the classroom.
Like many teachers, Ally is a true creative at heart and has begun a small business as a designer and maker of bespoke knitted beanies.
You can find her work at https://www.etsy.com/au/shop/JellyBeaniesAU
Welcome to the Get out of Teaching podcast, presented by Larksong Enterprises. I'm your host, Elizabeth Diacos. On the show, we'll look at the who, what, why, where, when and how of moving out of your education career and into a life you love. We'll meet ex-teachers, delve into what we love about teaching and how to translate that into something new. We'll talk to people who can support and inspire us as we make the transition and work on identifying the legacy we want to leave in the world. So come along for the ride as we Get out of Teaching. Episode 18 Hi, and welcome to the show. On today's show. I'm interviewing the marvellous Ally Forbes who hails all the way from Hobart in Tasmania. Welcome to the show, Ally.
Ally Forbes:Thanks Elizabeth
Elizabeth Diacos:That's better. Okay, Ally, so... You were teaching for quite a while... quite a while. What got you into teaching in the first place?
Ally Forbes:Really a love of children, especially babies. So I guess when I was deciding on a career, I either wanted to be a mother craft nurse or a midwife, or a teacher. And I chose to be a teacher. And in hindsight, I wished I'd been a midwife, but... Anyway, that's it! And yeah, and I really love books, especially picture books.
Elizabeth Diacos:Okay, so So working with little kids... reading picture books sound like the perfect job for you.
Ally Forbes:Yes.
Elizabeth Diacos:Okay. And so, is that where you ended up? Did you end up working with younger kids?
Ally Forbes:Ah, nope. Um, I ended up doing a degree and... in primary teaching, because there wasn't space in the early childhood section. And I taught from grade three to six for the first nine and a half years of teaching. Then I had a break and actually resigned and had my three boys. And then I moved to Hobart and returned to teaching and did lots of relief and contract teaching. Yeah, and I've now worked from Kinder right through to Grade 10.
Elizabeth Diacos:Okay, so so your qualification even though was in primary allowed you to teach all the way up to year 10?
Ally Forbes:Yes,
Elizabeth Diacos:right. Okay. And and so were you...were you a general classroom teacher.
Ally Forbes:For the first four years, I was, um, so I worked in Launceston in a primary school that I actually went to. So I had two years there and there were still teachers there who had taught me, which was... a bit strange.
Elizabeth Diacos:Oh, that's nice!
Ally Forbes:Then I was sent to a place called Winneleah. It has two streets and five churches. And it's two and a half hour drive from Launceston. So I had to stay in a teacher's hostel through the week. So that Yeah, that was a real experience.
Elizabeth Diacos:So that's, I mean, that's quite isolated, isn't it? If it's two and a half hours from Launceston?
Ally Forbes:Yes. Yes. Um, yeah. So it was a district High School, it went from Kinder through to grade 10. So when I was there, I had a grade 3/4, and then the next year a grade 3/4/5. The school also had a farm. And I had to teach rural science, which was quite funny because I was a city girl. And yeah, so the school oval, was surrounded by an electric fence. And they were cowpats on the oval.
Elizabeth Diacos:O kay, I was gonna say why the electric fence, but it was to keep the cows out, not the kids in.
Ally Forbes:Yep. Right.
Elizabeth Diacos:Yeah.
Ally Forbes:Yeah. Yeah. So um, yeah, I had a real education out there. And like the kids, some of them came from farms quite a distance away. And they knew everything about farming and pigs and sheep and you know... everything. And I knew nothing, yep! So for rural science lessons, it was like, I would ask the kids "tell me what you know".
Elizabeth Diacos:Okay. Yeah. So you ended up being the one learn... doing all the learning, not them?
Ally Forbes:Yes, yes.
Elizabeth Diacos:Oh, that's amazing. Thank you for sharing that. I didn't realize that about you. That you had that beginning.
Ally Forbes:Yes. And then after that, I applied to work in a special school. So it was a school for physically handicapped students. And so I worked there for five years, and I really loved that. So I have my own class of like, usually about nine students. I usually had, you know, three or four students in wheelchairs. And they had, you know, disabilities ranging from Spina Bifida. Yeah, lots of things the school had at its own bus, we would head out into the community once a week. The school had its own indoor pool. And lots of really fond memories from from back then. And then I started my family. And so I had some years off school, and then they weren't offering part time. So it was either come back full time back into my old job that I had at the special school, or resign. And so I actually chose to resign at that time, because my kids were still really little.
Elizabeth Diacos:Okay. So, so then at some point you obviously went back into teaching, when when did you go back?
Ally Forbes:So I returned to teaching in 2004 in Hobart. I think with teaching, especially in Tassie, it's not what you know, or how good you are. It's who you know. Yes, so I started off doing lots of relief teaching. And that was interesting. It's very much sink or swim. I would suggest to graduates that they try relief teaching because you will know whether you are meant for teaching or not by doing that.
Elizabeth Diacos:Okay, good advice.
Ally Forbes:Yeah, I did relief teaching, was really successful at that. So in the end, you know, I had schools ringing me directly and booking me in advance. Then I picked up some contracts and then finally in 2015, I became permanent.
Elizabeth Diacos:Okay, so that wasn't really that long. ago. So So what? Like it's 2020 now, so five years ago, you became permanent after all that time in education.
Ally Forbes:Yes, yes. rules were that you had to have eight consecutive terms of work in order to get your permanency. And so I would only have one more term to get, and then I wouldn't get a job at the start of the school year. So that happened to me like four times. And then I was like, I'm giving up, you know, what's the point here? And then finally, I got a break. Yeah. And I got my permanency. So yes, and I worked in primary schools. And the last few years I worked as a support teacher because I'd had all of that experience in a special school. And yeah, so I work in lots of primary schools, you know, some kind of out in the bush like Molesworth and yes, I've worked in heaps of primary schools and then I was kind of headhunted to go to a high school.
Elizabeth Diacos:Okay. And at the high school was that special ed as well?
Ally Forbes:Yes. So as a support teacher supporting students with disabilities and writing I.P.'s and working with families and liaising with outside agencies as well. So with OT's and physios and spreadsheets and equipment for students and all of that.
Elizabeth Diacos:R ight, okay, so it sounds like you're actually had these really, really rich, valuable career. So I almost hesitate to ask what went wrong, like what was the tipping point that made you decide to leave education?
Ally Forbes:Well, it kind of wasn't my decision. So I was bullied by staff to the point that in the end, I had a massive breakdown. And yet when that happened, I have not returned to that school and so I'm still under the care of my health professionals in order to keep me going and getting me through really tough times. I've only recently resigned from the education department. I still can't drive to the suburb where that school is. And I have crippling anxiety and severe depression. Still. Yes, I'm on medication, etc.
Elizabeth Diacos:So it sounds like it was actually a very traumatic exit. And there was no time to be afraid to leave, it just, it was essential.
Ally Forbes:Yes, yes, I didn't have to make a decision, like it was kind of made for me. So I could not now even go into a school because those same fears, you know, return or those bad memories of what happened to me.
Elizabeth Diacos:So, I mean, it sounds like it's not a good idea to go down the path of what did happen. Is there anything that that you would say? Like if if someone was in a situation like that? What advice would you give them then, if they're in a situation where they're being bullied or there was a toxic workplace environment? Is there any advice that you could give? Because I'm sure there are people who are going to be listening to this podcast, where that story will really resonate with them.
Ally Forbes:Okay, so I did report it. So to the principal at the time, several times, I was one of five women, that this kind of thing was happening to so the other support teacher at the school, it was is happening to her as well, severely, and her and I would talk and then both of us would go to the principal and say, Hey, this is not okay. You're meant to be providing a safe workplace. It's not safe for us, you know, what are you going to do? And nothing happened. Like she tried to, to address it, but nothing changed. And so both of us ended up having a breakdown in the same year. And yeah, I think like it's just been swept under the carpet, but I know it's a really common thing. Yeah, for staff to be bullied. I went to the Union. I also sought counseling and talked to my GP. And now I've got a psychologist who I talk to frequently about how to manage. Yeah.
Elizabeth Diacos:So in the end, it became really about managing your own wellbeing rather than trying to address the bullying issue, because it just wasn't, nothing was, there was no traction.
Ally Forbes:Yes, yes, that's right. And even with that, a change of principal, nothing happened. In fact, things got worse.
Elizabeth Diacos:Right. Okay. Well, I'm really sorry that that's happened to you. But I and I'm very grateful to you, Ally for sharing your story with us because I know that there are so many teachers who have been in this situation. And I, early in my career, I faced a situation like that. And I actually resigned from an ongoing position. I'd only been in the school for one term. And I was already 43. At the time, it was my second year of teaching, and I just said to myself, life is too short to spend one more minute with this toxic woman who was the principal at the school at the time. And so I left and left my ongoing position, which was as you just described, it's pretty hard to get one and I was a graduate teacher. So to get an ongoing position was amazing. And I just walked away from it because I could see that it was just going to be a disaster. And I and I, at least I was old enough, and I knew enough to know that, like, it was time to go. But if I, if I'd been in a financial situation where I didn't have any support, I wouldn't have been able to do that. So yeah, I can see why people stay, even though it's toxic. So, so when that was all happening, there must have been some real anxiety for you around, like supporting your family and all that kind of thing. How did you manage that?
Ally Forbes:When I left, I decided to do worker's compensation because it was bullying, and I actually had evidence, you know, with emails etc. to support my claim. And with the bullying that had been happening, I actually kept a record of it with dates and times. And who was involved and what they said to me or what they did. You know, yeah, which had an impact on my job. And I so I had staff who were meant to be supporting me, you know, in their role, and they would not really follow my instructions and they were insubordinate, and stuff things up. So then things didn't go right for the student, then I'd have to ring the family and apologize for something that I hadn't done, you know? Yep. So yeah, the whole thing had a huge impact, say I did workers compensation and had to see the Education Department's independent psychiatrist, and he wrote a 16 page report on me. And my GP also wrote a report and in the end, and I found out like on the 17th of December that year, that my case was being disputed and it would have to go to the tribunal. And I was devastated because, yeah, I was served papers. I actually got the principal's response. And there were so many lies and wrong things in her statement, she called me by another teacher's name. So, you know, she mentioned students who weren't even on my caseload, you know, it was just full of all these flaws. And I was like, ah, gee, you know, gee lady, I'm gonna get you because it's, it was so wrong. And I had all this evidence to back my statement. So on Christmas Eve, at around about three o'clock in the afternoon, I get a letter in the mail telling me the date of the tribunal. Okay. So that was quite devastating because of you know, the Union was closed at that time, the doctor and like every everyone, so I felt like I had support when I read this letter, and yes, so it was going to be on the eighth of January. I got legal advice, and they said the way that the law was being interpreted that I would lose my case. Okay. And so that's what happened. And I was so devastated. But I still wanted to pursue it. So once that happened, the money for workers compensation all stopped. And so then I was just put on pay, you know, like holiday pay because it was the holidays. And then I thought, No, I'm going to take this further. So I went to see a lawyer, and I was told it was going to cost me at least$26,000 in order to take it to court, and I might not win. So then I had to draw a line in the sand and go, you know, just let it go and wait for karma. So, um, so then I knew that I wasn't well enough to go back to teaching. And so I took term one off as long service leave. And then from term two for a year, I did a whole year, leave without pay. And then I was like okay, How am I meant to manage now? And apparently, there's income protection insurance built into my super. And so I applied for that and got it. And so, yeah, that runs out this year on December four and so that's what has been paying the bills.
Elizabeth Diacos:I see. Okay, so So at the moment, you're not on any kind of disability insurance, you're on income protection?
Ally Forbes:Yes.
Elizabeth Diacos:Right. Okay. And so I guess the expectation is that you'll go back to work. Is that right? Well, maybe from the income protection people maybe not from you.
Ally Forbes:Yes, yes. You know, I have people saying, Oh, I guess go back to work. And, you know, and I'm like, I can't go back to teaching. I don't want to have anything to do with schools. I don't want to be a tutor or anything like that. Just, you know, leave that murky yucky bit behind. And so they were thinking maybe two days a week, you know, somewhere. Like I'm really into wool. And it was like, well, maybe I could work in the wool department at Spotlight or something. Okay, so, yeah, so they've people have tossed around those sorts of ideas with me. But the bottom line is, I have not had it like since September 2018. I've not had a whole month of being well enough, managing day by day life. So there's no way that I could work for someone else.
Elizabeth Diacos:Okay. Well, can I just say thank you, again, for your honesty there because I know it's really hard to talk about this. So I really appreciate you coming on the show and sharing your story because I think, you know, a lot of people wouldn't be willing to do that. And I do appreciate it. So okay, let's just come forward to the present. So what are you doing now? Because you're not just sitting around I know that for sure. So how did you how did you kind of get from feeling really, I guess stuck, to feeling like you've got a bit more purpose and meaning happening in your life?
Ally Forbes:Well, I found this amazing group on Facebook called Bullied Teachers Network. And, and I joined that and actually found that there were lots of teachers with the same story as me because like, yeah, look, I'm in Tassie. And you know, it's kind of like a small place, but you feel really alone when stuff like this happens to you and there's, there's not a network or you know, people to talk to about it. Yeah, so that was really incredible. And then I met you from that Facebook group, and finally agreed to taking that clarity call, which was just amazing. Because for years, like I've had this real passion for knitting, and I designed my own patterns and love knitting bright, colourful things. And yes, and I've already had like, for years, I've had a business card that I had designed myself. So I already had like 1000 business cards ready to go. Yeah. And so I talked to you about, you know, that was my dream job, even though it might not put food on the table. It's something I was really passionate about. And so, you and I talked about that idea and even through all my struggles, you know, since like, October last year. Yeah, I've actually got an Etsy store up and running. And I've had a few sales and I've even had returning customers. So the very first person who bought a beanie, she's actually returned and bought another. And then another guy. Yeah, he's, um, he's bought a second beanie and where he lives and he lives around Katoomba. And now you said everyone's asking him, where did you get your beanie? And so, yeah, which I find really exciting, because, you know, the love of my beanies is being spread outside of Tassie.
Elizabeth Diacos:I guess that's, that's really validating, isn't it? Because you've come from this environment where you weren't valued and you weren't respected, and you've created a space now for yourself where you're running a business, you're doing what you love to do every day, you're knitting, and and you've got people who really value what you're doing as well. So it's just lovely synergy there where you've gone from this toxic environment to creating an environment for yourself, where people are impressed by what you do. They're excited about what you're doing, and you are too. So it's like, fantastic. And can I just sort of fill in some of the gaps there. So we started working together about six months ago. And you join a group coaching call, a regular group coaching call that I that I was running, so just to be clear, you're one of my clients. So thank you. And, and over that time, you know, you've had your ups and downs, of course, like everyone has, but and especially with the COVID-19 there was a bit of a glitch there where we were all going What are we going to do? How it has, what it's going to look like? So maybe you could just tell us about how you sort of did your little pivot there when that all started to happen? You'd only just set up your Etsy store. So what did you do when COVID-19 happened?
Ally Forbes:That was quite a scary time. Because, like, nobody knew what was happening and things were changing day by day. And I remember talking to you about, maybe it's time for me to have a break from my store because I can't cope. You know, maybe this is the wrong time to be starting up a business. And you said to me, Oh, no, everyone will be buying online because, you know, you couldn't leave, you couldn't actually go shopping, you know, for a beanie or whatever. And I guess my other thought was that it was March and it was still really nice weather even here in Hobart. So it wasn't cold enough. And I'm like, you know, it's still not cold yet, people aren't buying and you're like, Oh, no, keep plugging away. Um, yeah. So I did and really grateful that I did I also did things like one of my sons moved out of home last year. And so I've now turned his bedroom into my studio. So, you know, I've repainted all the walls, got yarn stored in here. Yeah, I'm still decorating, you know, I'm getting it all set up. But yeah, so that has been really exciting for me because I've been renovating all my life. It's sort of my other love. Yeah. And designing beanies is just like, Oh, wow. Yeah, creating something. It's like pure joy. Yeah. So I have here, one of my beanies, it's called a DC beanie and DC because it's a double cable. And so, I've designed this and it's got a pom-pom on top. Now everyone who knows me knows I really don't like pom-poms but the yarn I bought actually had the pom pom on top you know that's how you bought it. So I actually put that on and in the background you can see I've got a liquorice all-sorts beanie. on here,
Elizabeth Diacos:You're gonna need to describe that because this is again, most of the people who will be listening to this will be just it'll be just audio so just describe the beanie for us.
Ally Forbes:Okay, so the liquorice all-sort beanie has three colours that you would find on a typical liquorice all-sort with black in between. And I've even had, I always have to do research on things that I don't know how to do. So I really wanted to do a square top of the beanie, so it would look even more like a liquorice all-sort. So there's a special technique. And so now I'm like, oh, yes, I know this. This is exciting. Yeah. So yeah, and it actually looks, so, it's a stripey beanie with black and a colour, then black and a colour. Like, you know, like that. And, yeah, really bright colors. I'm really excited. Except the only downfall is with the black, I can't knit that at night because it's too dark and I've even got a special lamp that I use to knit at night, but it's still too hard to see the stitches. So when I'm knitting black it needs to be in the daytime.
Elizabeth Diacos:Okay, so that's good. That means you can fill up your days with knitting liquorice all-sort beanies. Okay, so as you were, like, leaving teaching, obviously, that was that was unexpected, but there must be some things that you brought with you from your training and education and your experience that you've now brought into your new business. And what's the name of your business by the way?
Ally Forbes:Jelly Beanies AU.
Elizabeth Diacos:Right Okay, so that's your Etsy store name. Is that right? Yes. So what skills, what training? Did you need? Did you did you need to go and learn anything new to set up your business? Like what have you done? Or what have you brought with you to set this up?
Ally Forbes:Because I was a teacher, I've got good planning skills. And yeah, I've worked really well when I have a timetable. Because after being in education for over 20 years, and you know, with the structure of your day, I work really well with a similar structure to know what I'm going to do in the morning, what in the afternoon and put all of my appointments in. So that works really best for me. So I do that. I also use spreadsheets for recording sales and profits. Yeah, Communication skills, social skills. I also had to do some research because I've bought things off Etsy, but I've never sold anything. So I had to research. How to sell on Etsy. Was that the best marketplace to use? Would eBay be better, but I think eBay is like for general things and the charges are much higher than Etsy. And Etsy is more for the handmade market.
Elizabeth Diacos:Okay, so you're actually you've already like you've got your very specific niche selling beanies, but you've also found a marketplace that is ideal for that niche.
Ally Forbes:Yes, yeah. I've had to research. So, for people who knit or crochet, there's an amazing website called Ravelry which is free to join and it's got thousands of patterns, some of them free and some that you have pay for. And so that's a good place to research, you know, 'how do I do a square top on a beanie' or, you know, anything else that you need to know. And the other thing that I'm going to add with my business, I'm actually going to write up my patterns and put them on Ravelry. And sell them.
Elizabeth Diacos:So that'll be another little sideline in addition to the beanies.
Ally Forbes:Yes.
Elizabeth Diacos:Sounds amazing. So, what advice would you give to someone who's on their way out and maybe just feeling a bit like I don't know what to do now?- I'm not sure what I've got to offer and I'm just feeling stuck?
Ally Forbes:Okay, well, even to some of my teacher friends who are still teaching, I say to them I suppose I work a lot now, but it doesn't feel like work to me, because knitting is my passion. So, like I knit heaps, and especially on weekends, I actually am admin of a knitting group that would meet once a week. So yeah, with my woolie friends, that's amazing. And I have so much joy out of what I'm doing. There's no like, no limit on toilet breaks or coffee breaks or like, I just love that, you know? And yeah, a lot of my friends are just like they have Sunday-itis where they go'oh, no I gotta go back to work tomorrow,' you know? Well, I don't have that feeling anymore. You know, I can work when I want to. And I guess my work is portable. So you know, I can go to someone else's house and knit or we would go and meet in a coffee shop and knit before COVID happened. I think the other piece of advice is, I know as a teacher like you get paid? Well. Now from my point of view, I'd say you get paid really well. Okay? Because now I'm living on, you know, far less on the income protection insurance money. So, I think you have to weigh up - should you stay in teaching and you know, get that bucket load of money, but be so stressed and it impacts on your health, your physical health, your mental health. And I was in a really toxic work environments say, to stay there and wait until you have a stroke or a heart attack or whatever. Or, like, I got out, and I had no choice. I'm living on way less money, but I'm much happier, much less stressed. I have amazing Woolie friends and a fantastic support group around me, like, you know, what sort of life would you prefer? And for me, I would much rather have less money but be doing something that I really love. Yes, I guess like that really is my take home message and you know, I can still go out for coffee. And when we ever allowed out of Tassie I really like to travel. So that's one of my pet things. And with my Woolie friends we were actually going to go to the Bendigo Sheep and Wool Show this . Yeah, to buy lots of wool. I was actually going to go on a cruise with two amazing knitters Anna and Carlos, who design amazing things. Yes, they were going to do five workshops on the ship and that was at the end of March and of course that was cancelled as well. So yeah.
Elizabeth Diacos:That will be on again at some point in the future and you'll be able to go
Ally Forbes:I'm not sure.. I think this is big fear around cruise ships now like that, you know, floating bacteria.
Elizabeth Diacos:I'm pretty sure they're gonna ramp up their cleaning regimes now.
Ally Forbes:Yeah.
Elizabeth Diacos:So, if someone wanted to use your service or to find your products on Etsy, what's the address? Like, where did I go to?
Ally Forbes:They go to to jellybeaniesau.etsy.com.
Elizabeth Diacos:Okay, excellent. Thank you. So that will be in the show notes for this episode, that URL so that people can find it. And I guess you've sort of answered what is life like for you now?- So I'm going to just finish up with a question about the future. What's the legacy that you want to leave in the world?
Ally Forbes:I would love to be known as this amazing designer knitter lady. You know, who wasn't afraid of bright colors, etc. Yeah, so I really love bright colors. And here in Tassie, you know, we might have winter for like seven months and lots of grey, yucky days. And I love bright colors, you know, because it just makes you feel better. And yeah, and I guess I also want to have three adult sons in their 20s and I really would like them to know that I don't care what they're doing as a career in their life as long as they love it. Like don't stay stuck in a job that you hate because life is too short to be stuck doing something that you don't get pleasure out of. And you know, I still remember sitting in staff meetings that went on forever and I'd be sitting there going this is just wasting my life. You know this is wasting yet another hour of my precious life listening to this dribble that has nothing to do with my job. Yeah, so in like, Look, I'm now late 50s and yeah can be really realistic I suppose and sarcastic about, you know, all the hoops that you have to jump through, you know, for teaching and a lot of it was just, I just wanted to get on with my job and do it, not have to sit in endless meetings. So yes, so it's like, get out there and and find your passion and just go for it.
Elizabeth Diacos:Ally Forbes, thank you so much for coming on the Get Out Of Teaching podcast today.
Ally Forbes:Thanks Elizabeth.
Elizabeth Diacos:Thanks for listening to the Get Out Of Teaching podcast presented by Larksong Enterprises with your host Elizabeth Diacos. Do you know someone else who could benefit from hearing more stories of hope and transition from teachers all around the world? Please take a moment to share this and other episodes via your podcast app. Each share helps me reach listeners just like you who can benefit from this content. The Get Out Of Teaching podcast is proud to be part of the Experts On Air Podcast Network. For show notes and other resources please visit larksong.com.au/podcast