Season 2, Episode 8 Elizabeth interviews Susanne Gervay (Children's book author, speaker and social justice advocate)

Susanne Gervay OAM

Susanne Gervay accidentally fell into teaching and found her passion for education and young people. After ten years she wanted a change where she used those skills to become a writer, speaker and anti-bullying and social justice advocate. Awarded the Lifetime Social Justice Literature Award by the International Literacy Association, Order of Australia, nominee for Australia for Lindgren Memorial Award, Susanne Gervay is now recognized for her writing on social justice.  Her award winning stories are published in literary journals and anthologies including the cross Sub-Continent- Australian anthology 'Fear Factor, Terror Incognito' on terrorism alongside the works of Sir Salman Rushdie and Thomas Keneally.  She represented Australia in ‘Peace Story’ an IBBY, UNICEF anthology where 22 authors, 22 illustrators from 22 countries wrote for peace. 

She writes from picture books to young adult novels. Butterflies is recognised as Outstanding Youth Literature on Disability. Her award winning I Am Jack children’s books which have become rite-of-passage on school bullying adapted into an acclaimed play by Monkey Baa Theatre has toured theaters across Australia and USA. Her books are endorsed by The Cancer Council, Room to Read, bringing literacy to the children of the developing world, Children’s Hospital Westmead Sydney, Books in Homes reaching indigenous and disadvantaged schools, Life Education, many anti bullying and literacy organizations.

An acclaimed national and international speaker, Susanne Gervay is head of the Society of Children’s Book Writers and Illustrators SCBWI Australia East and New Zealand, Ambassador for many literacy, reading and equity campaigns. www.sgervay.com 

Social Media

Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/sgervay

Twitter-   https://twitter.com/sgervay

Instagram - https://instagram.com/susanne_gervay/

Youtube - https://www.youtube.com/user/sgervay

Linked in -  https://www.linkedin.com/in/susanne-gervay

Transcript

Elizabeth Diacos : 0:02

Welcome to Season Two of the Get Out of Teaching Podcast presented by Larksong Enterprises. I'm your host, Elizabeth Diacos. In this season, we'll meet ex teachers who have taken their hobbies and passions from outside of education and created a new career for themselves. We'll talk to people who can support and inspire us as we make the transition and work on identifying the legacy we want to leave in the world. So come along for the ride as we get out of teaching. Many teachers from the Get out of Teaching facebook group tell me that the main reason they’re still teaching when they’d rather leave, is financial security… So next week my guest will be show sponsor Chris Carlin, Financial Planner and Mortgage Broker from Master Your Money Now. Our conversation will focus on income protection, and Chris has some really helpful insights for teachers who may be out on sick leave or stress leave, as well as pearls of wisdom for early-career teachers. With over 9-years experience in the finance sector, Aussies from all around the country have trusted Chris to help plan their financial futures. Chris Carlin cares for the caring professions – teachers and nurses – helping you to shore up your financial resources so that you’ll be in a good position to leave, when you’re ready. If you are concerned about your financial future, go to masteryourmoneynow.com.au to book a free 30 min chat with Chris Carlin, and master YOUR money, now. Episode 8. Hi everyone and welcome to the show. On today's show I'm very pleased to be interviewing Susanne Gervey. Thanks for coming on the show, Susanne.

Susanne Gervay : 2:04

A pleasure to be here.

Elizabeth Diacos : 2:07

And so tell us your story. What got you into teaching in the first place?

Susanne Gervay : 2:12

Well, it's called the scholarship. I was actually on my way to Perth with an Arts degree. And we stopped off in Melbourne, just for a little bit and I saw an application for a (inaudible). I thought, "Oh, I'll apply for it. They'll pay you a whole year's salary to do two days teaching, three days studying." I applied, and that's why I became a teacher.

Elizabeth Diacos : 2:41

Oh, wow, and when was that and where were you coming from on your way to Perth?

Susanne Gervay : 2:46

Well, I was coming from Sydney. I was newly married. And we were on our great Australian adventure and just stopped in Melbourne because my husband was doing some temporary work there as an engineer. I saw the advertisement, applied. And when I got it, imagine I got a whole year's salary for studying.

Elizabeth Diacos : 3:14

Yeah, fantastic. And so did you have to stay in Melbourne then?

Susanne Gervay : 3:19

Ah, no. What happened is that I did my two days a week teaching and when I finished with my diploma, I was free to go anywhere. I don't know, it's one of those strange, odd scholarships that just came into the ether.

Elizabeth Diacos : 3:39

And so Wait, how long ago was that?

Unknown Speaker : 3:42

Oh, gosh, 20 years ago, okay.

Elizabeth Diacos : 3:48

Yeah, a while ago, but still not that distant

Susanne Gervay : 3:51

Yeah

Elizabeth Diacos : 3:51

to such an amazing scholarship. That sounds like something out of the 1930s isn't it?

Susanne Gervay : 3:57

Yeah, it was (laughs)

Elizabeth Diacos : 3:58

Okay, all right, no, not wanting to imply that at all. So, Susanne, tell us what was the context when you were teaching for that first year? How long - where were you? What did you do? So what was the beginning like?

Susanne Gervay : 4:14

Okay, it was Moorabbin Technical College. I was all of 20 and it was my first experience and let me put it this way, it was a very unusual experience. My first entree to the school was a big boy looked about 15 or 16, tall kid, he comes up to me and puts out his hand and he has a screw in it. And you said Miss, would you like a screw?

Elizabeth Diacos : 4:50

Oh

Unknown Speaker : 4:50

And I thought, aha, I might have trouble. And my first year was very confronting, and I did come out in huge hives right in that first year, and I'm still grateful for it. Sort of

Unknown Speaker : 5:15

I got, I got hives in my first year, I didn't know what happened to me. I went to the GP. And he said, "What do you do?" And I said, "First year teaching." He said, "Well, that's the reason." You know, it was very confronting. But the thing is, I learned a lot. I learned how to deal with young people. I learned how to cry a bit. And in the end, I decided it was either you or me. And I won.

Elizabeth Diacos : 5:20

Tell me what, Oh, hang on a second.

Susanne Gervay : 5:28

I got hives in my first year I didn't know what happened to me. I went to the GP and he said, What do you do? And I said, First year teaching. He said, Well, that's the reason. You know, it was very confronting. But the thing is, I learned a lot. I learned how to deal with young people. I learned how to cry a bit. And in the end, I decided it was either you or me. I won.

Elizabeth Diacos : 6:03

So it sounds like it was a bit of a battleground.

Susanne Gervay : 6:07

First year, yeah

Elizabeth Diacos : 6:07

Yeah, yeah. Okay. And so then you were a newlywed, and you were working in this fairly stressful environment. And then what happened at the end of that year?

Susanne Gervay : 6:20

At the end of that year, I came back to Sydney, which is where I'm from. And I began my teaching career. And again, it was very confronting, I was now 21. And I, I was teaching all the way up to year 12 kids who are up to 18 and I had to teach the advanced level as you can imagine, I was literally one step ahead of the kids. So every night I was working day and night so I'd that I look smarter than them.

Elizabeth Diacos : 6:58

So what what were you actually Teaching

Susanne Gervay : 7:02

And it was, look, I loved it. I loved the subjects, but it was the first time I dealt with that curriculum. And you know, I had to teach at such a high level, year 10, 11, 12 the seniors and they knew so much more than me.

Elizabeth Diacos : 7:23

(laughs) Oh, nice. Okay, and so you did you stay in that school the whole time that when you're up in Sydney,

Susanne Gervay : 7:32

I stayed in the one school and I learnt to love it and be exhausted by it. And what I found is it became my life. So that I was, I didn't have much more outside my teaching life, of course, other than my marriage and family, because teaching is so all-consuming, it takes all of you. So I was there and I also taught at technical colleges at night. And it was, again, interesting, I taught all these plumbers and tradespeople, kids, how to communicate and write. And it was a bit of fun, I must say. So I did a bit of that. And I also think taught at the university, some advanced courses in creative writing. And that was really wonderful.

Elizabeth Diacos : 8:30

So did you need to go and get some additional qualifications to do there like a certificate for or something else on top of your teaching qualification.

Susanne Gervay : 8:40

I got a Master of Education. And I've got a Master of Arts. So I did have additional qualifications, which helped me get those positions, now part-time positions. I still worked as a teacher in a school.

Elizabeth Diacos : 8:56

a school. So you're working all day and then going doing Another job at night.

Susanne Gervay : 9:01

Yes, it's called paying off your mortgage. Yes.

Elizabeth Diacos : 9:05

Okay. Still pretty stressful environment to be like both of those things together. That's a lot.

Susanne Gervay : 9:12

It was tiring, but I got better at it and, you know, more skilled in organizing my time. Sometimes.

Elizabeth Diacos : 9:23

Yeah, yeah. And so when you did finally decide to leave Education, what was the tipping point for you?

Susanne Gervay : 9:31

Well, there were two things. One is that I did want to be a writer. And whatever the place of being a writer is, is the place of teaching. It is a deep emotional place. And I just could not write or create after teaching, because I was drained. So I had to decide did I want to do that for my life. And then the second thing is I have kids, and they were also that same place of writing and teaching - just takes every ounce from you. And it's neither good nor bad. But it means there's no space for other things.

Elizabeth Diacos : 10:18

So how old were your children when you decided to leave?

Susanne Gervay : 10:22

Oh, they were babies

Elizabeth Diacos : 10:23

Oh, ok?

Susanne Gervay : 10:24

Yeah.

Elizabeth Diacos : 10:25

So you were just finding it hard to juggle all of those commitments?

Susanne Gervay : 10:29

Yes. And also to pursue my creative life, which I'd just begun doing.

Elizabeth Diacos : 10:35

Hmm. Okay.

Susanne Gervay : 10:36

On the side, yes.

Elizabeth Diacos : 10:38

So was there fear around that for you? Like you just said you were doing two jobs or three jobs to pay off the mortgage. And now you're thinking about stepping out of that entirely?

Susanne Gervay : 10:48

Well, not entirely. One of the great things about teaching is it gives you so many skills that you can use outside teaching, so I could still work part time at the TAFE, I could still coach if I wanted for additional money. But becoming a writer was an extremely hard journey, but one that I am really glad I jumped into, but it was very hard.

Elizabeth Diacos : 11:21

Yeah, okay, so, just just going back to the, the idea of TAFE just explain what that is for our international listeners.

Susanne Gervay : 11:31

Oh, okay. TAFE is a post school, technical type college where you get kids who are from (well, not kids), teenagers are from 18, up to grandparents of 75. And it's a mixed, I guess, a mixed train type course. So you can do subjects such as improving your communication, if you're doing a trade or you can do your final exams by studying as a mature age student, you can do art you can do a whole variety of courses there. And you can also study there as a interlude between school and for the tertiary education, so I taught there. And it was really interesting. Just the people I met, you know, who've come back, especially women coming back to retrain for the workforce. I love that.

Elizabeth Diacos : 12:37

Yeah, fantastic. So you've got this lovely broad experience of really all the age levels as it turned out. So when you were, as you stepped out of that, that, you know, sort of full on full time teaching role. What - How did you do that? Like, what did you start doing as an alternative? Because you still had a family?

Susanne Gervay : 13:00

Yes, I had a young family. So what I did is, as I mentioned, I did do this part time teaching and coaching. You know, on the side, I did start writing. And writing is and I want it to be in the children's space because children's writing is everyone from preschool up to the end of high school. So it's a very broad range, and you have enormous impact. And so I began by joining classes at TAFE. For this technical college, they also had these creative writing classes, which were very economical. And I also began to get into the community of children's writing. If you don't get into the community, you have no chance. Because the community embraces you, like the Society of Children's Book Writers and Illustrators or the Children's Book Council or the Writing Centers. If you don't join in there, you won't get the support you need to pursue your goals. You can't do it alone.

Elizabeth Diacos : 14:15

That sounds like some really helpful advice for anyone who's considering going down that pathway.

Susanne Gervay : 14:21

Yeah, I mean, it also is where you get the hints of what to do and people become your friends. My best friends in the world are writers and illustrators. We help each other all the time. There's an opportunity or there - come and join us! Yeah.

Elizabeth Diacos : 14:38

Great, great. And it looks just in your background, now you've got on your virtual background, you've got some pictures of some of your books. And I can see it's like, you've worked with the same illustrator on a few projects.

Susanne Gervay : 14:50

When you... look, there's so much to learn when you leave teaching in the sense that you think, "Oh, I can just be a writer or whatever creating you want to be." It's a different industry, you have to do the work. So something as simple as that I Am Jack series, is illustrated by Cathy Wilcox, who is a political cartoonist for The Age, The Herald.

Elizabeth Diacos : 15:20

Oh, yeah

Susanne Gervay : 15:20

Now, I don't think pick that. That is something that publishers will select and negotiate. So if I went and selected an illustrator, they would consider me unprofessional, because they know the ropes really.

Elizabeth Diacos : 15:36

That's funny. I just... I did actually know that, but I didn't realize how what a big deal it was. I just find that astounding because if you like an illustrator, and they understand your vision as a writer, surely that's a good collaboration.

Susanne Gervay : 15:50

Well, the publishers regard the relationship between an illustrator and an author as potentially dangerous, because if the author is difficult or doesn't like whatever happens, there can be arguments, they think. But I'm an experienced author now, I've been doing it for 20 years, and I have a little bit of what we call clout. So with my new book, actually here it is, I'll just show you to get the concept. Oh, I wonder if you can see it - there's a little boy.

Elizabeth Diacos : 16:24

Yeah

Susanne Gervay : 16:26

It's Boy in the Big Blue Glasses because I have a little clout I submitted it to the publisher, they accepted it, and then I said, "I have one condition." "What?" "I want the illustrator. I love her." And they were very unhappy about that, but I said, "Please call her." And we made the agreement, but that's very rare.

Elizabeth Diacos : 16:52

Right? Okay. Good on you for sticking to your guns. Okay, so what would you say you came out of education with in terms of transferable skills? Obviously, you've got some negotiation skills.

Susanne Gervay : 17:04

Yes. Of which, look, teaching is the most wonderful grounding in any future profession. Firstly, to go and confront a group of kids is extremely brave and confronting. A lot of people think, "Oh, you know, I work in an office with all these adults." Forget it. Kids take no, they take no survivors, you go out there and you got to perform, you've got to reach them, educate them. So that is very confronting. And I think a teacher who learns those skills are skills for life and for any future job. That's the first thing. Teaching also teaches you to program. You can be creative in the classroom, and I hope I was, but there is a lot of programming that not only compliance but just in to ensure you fulfill the curriculum requirements. And it's hard and you have to learn it. You become very good at computer skills, no choice, because you know, you have to transfer the results and the programs and all those sort of things into computable, computer accessible thoughts and to share, you learn collaboration. As a high school teacher, I had to work within a team with my English team or my History team, and we had to collaborate in terms of ensuring we're doing similar programs, getting results that are appropriate, and sometimes team sharing, which I liked, because it meant half the work in preparing work and then giving me extra time to do that. But more than that, teaching enabled me to do what brings me my income. As a children's author, my books are in a lot of book shops and schools. And that's great. And that's my entree to what I really do for a profession. I'm a speaker. I speak at schools, they pay me. I speak at festivals, conferences. On top of that I can have a bit of fun. I was invited to go to Istanbul, they paid for me to speak at the Istanbul Literature Festival because my books have been translated into Turkish. So the fact that I'm an experienced speaker, which is bringing my income, that came from teaching. I'm not afraid of addressing 10 kids, or a 1000 kids, adult kids, I'm not afraid.

Elizabeth Diacos : 20:07

So it sounds like actually, your writing is almost the, the the conduit that allows you to be a speaker.

Susanne Gervay : 20:17

Yep. If I don't have books out, believe me, the advances are very poor. I am not JK Rowling. I wish.

Elizabeth Diacos : 20:26

(laughs)

Susanne Gervay : 20:27

Yeah, we all wish. The thing is my, the advances are quite small. And you do have to do quite a lot of media and promotion. It's really to try and sell the books. But in reality, it is the fact that my books, especially go into schools, and in schools, libraries, school librarians, English teachers, they're my gods. Without them, honestly, I'd have no career. And one of the great things is because I was a teacher, I know these people I know how they operate. I know their digital connections. And, you know, I've got friends there as well and it enables me to sell books, but more importantly to get into the schools. And when I get into the schools, of course I talk about my work. But I'm able to integrate my novels and my writing into their programs so they can tick those boxes while still having a great time.

Elizabeth Diacos : 21:42

Sounds like a great skill you've developed there. So then what extra training or study did you need to do like you said you did your Master of Arts, but was there anything else that you needed to do to get to where you are now?

Susanne Gervay : 21:55

Well, I think teaching is the best training. I can't - it puts you in every single possible area of conflict, (enjoy), it just does. You end up you know, teaching whole groups of kids to debate or you end up on camps. You end up here and there - teaching is an amazing amazing preparation for your future career. For training, I did a Master of Education, which for me is super helpful. Because my books are heavily, heavily grounded in social justice. That's what I write. And having my Master of Education with a specialization in Child Growth and Development, my books are enriched with, I call it, correct, accepted wise, educational psychology. So I found that incredibly enriching for my writing practice. And the second Master's I did was because I was so nervous about deciding to be a writer. I thought, I can't do it. I'm hopeless. How will I get there. And then I applied for a Master of Creative Writing at UTS to try and give me the confidence to go into this new career because it was pretty scary. And so that's what I did. But I believe, if you want extra training, you have to belong to a Society of Children's Book Writers and Illustrators who have hundreds and hundreds of amazing Zoom Crafts Sessions, Introduction to the Publishers. Now with Zoom because of COVID it's become so enriched. But once COVID goes there's also the meetings where you meet publishers, meet other authors and illustrators, and I promise you that is the best training.

Elizabeth Diacos : 24:25

So you're - are you saying then, let me get this clear, that you don't actually need to go and do further formal academic study that you could get everything that you needed from those more informal short courses.

Susanne Gervay : 24:39

Yes. And, you know, depending on what you pick, you'll find that, as I said, with SCBWI, the courses that -

Elizabeth Diacos : 24:50

What is that?

Susanne Gervay : 24:51

Oh, Society of Children's Book Writers and Illustrators. That is like, open, because it's an international organization with 80 chapters from the US to Malaysia to UK to Australia to everywhere. They have webinars and courses across the globe. And with the Zooms, they're cheap, really. And a lot of them free, once you belong. It's pretty good. But if you wanted to do screenwriting, join the Australian Writers Guild. You want to do adults join the Australian Society of Authors. These industry organizations run the type of material you need to get your profession up and running and get the craft and the confidence.

Elizabeth Diacos : 25:53

Wonderful advice there. Thank you for that. I'm sure that, I know many of my listeners, for this podcast are interested in becoming writers. So that's really helpful. Thank you. So if someone was feeling stuck, and they were hesitating to leave, because of all the reasons you described earlier about that security and that, that really knowing what you're doing every day that, not just security financially, but in terms of the role itself. What advice would you give someone who felt that way?

Susanne Gervay : 26:26

well, to feel that way means you're normal

Elizabeth Diacos : 26:29

(laughs)

Susanne Gervay : 26:29

Yes, I believe. I believe in preparation. So, when you make that transition, don't leave yourself high and dry, please. Like, as I said, I ensured that I had my part time work with TAFE, or it doesn't matter doesn't have to be at TAFE. It could be, I don't know, working at a playgroup if you want it to be younger, or doing whatever you like, but to ensure 1. You have some sort of regularity within your week, and 2. some income. You need both, but you will have to accept your income will drop. And that's tough.

Elizabeth Diacos : 27:20

Yeah, and have you been able to replace your teaching income now? Or is that not as important anymore? Like, how did you, you don't have to tell us numbers but just a, you know, an idea.

Susanne Gervay : 27:34

Okay. I'm actually quite successful in my area. And my books sell and thank God for libraries. Thank you, librarians and schools. So the way I make my money is through something called Educational Lending Rights and Public Lending Rights. In Australia, we have a wonderful system, where the government funds books in libraries, school libraries, and public libraries, and they do a survey every three years. And you put in your books to the government Educational Lending Rights, Public Lending Rights, put the books in. And once a year, they pay you for borrowing rights because when you put your books in the library, that book will not be sold. So it's an Australian system. And it is, it sustains authors. So the amount, the amount of money you get will be dependent on the number of books you write and how they have penetrated the schools and libraries. As a children's author, our money comes mainly from Educational Lending Rights from teachers and librarians to put it in their schools. The money we get, depending on how many books is up to $60,000 a year. I don't get $60,000 a year.

Elizabeth Diacos : 29:14

(laughs) I had no idea. So you saying school librarians have to submit something? How do they...

Susanne Gervay : 29:19

No, no. They don't submit. No, no.

Elizabeth Diacos : 29:22

How do you know, how, who bought your books?

Susanne Gervay : 29:24

Okay. The way it works is the government has some computer program. And the books are logged in to each school library. So through the computer system and the analogs, whatever they do, they work out how many of your books are in a certain area, then they allocate 50 cents per book or whatever. So it works out I am not good at that type of thing, forget it. But it means that if you're a writer with a body of work, you will get the Australian Government through their statistical analysis of how many books are in school libraries and public libraries. As a children's author, it's the school libraries that are our lifeblood. So the librarians, school librarians, have got to buy our books and not throw them away. Bad idea, and then we can live. So that's one. The second way I make my money is through the copyright agency. It's free to belong. But if you're an author, you list your books and what you do there. And they, and even if you don't list it, they'll follow it up and then they'll pay you once a year if people, mainly educational institution, are copying your work. So for example, you know, I just got, say $2,000 because some, I dunno magazine copied some articles I wrote. So it's that second that helps as well. And then you have to do speaking engagements and they bring your income. At the moment, authors and illustrators are in trouble, because there are no school visits with COVID.

Elizabeth Diacos : 31:33

Right, got it. But surely it also opens up possibilities for you to go into schools virtually. And I mean, teachers are still wanting to talk to authors, surely.

Susanne Gervay : 31:45

Yep. And I've been into schools virtually. The problem is, because there's so much on the internet, they're not tuned in to pay. So it's still something being worked out, and it may end up, we don't know how it's end up, how it's going to end up. It's a period of flux now, but as I said, ELR/PLR sustains us plus we do get some advances for books. I've got a new book coming out next year in April because it was delayed a year because of COVID. When it comes out, I'll get more money, my advance.

Elizabeth Diacos : 32:29

And also, presumably when people start borrowing it from the libraries or buying it to put in the libraries, you'll also get that that payment as well.

Susanne Gervay : 32:38

That's really important. And the other thing is, as a writer, you don't have to just be a writer for books. You know, I write articles. And, you know, I engage in that aspect, like a journalist type, type role. And I do that. Also a lot of authors do workshops, depending on you know, their skill set, because some creative workshops have a huge demand, both from parents and schools. Yeah.

Elizabeth Diacos : 33:12

Fantastic. Thank you for explaining all that. It's a really complex, sort of behind-the-scenes picture of that part of the world that I really didn't know very much about at all. Thank you. So, Susanne, if someone wanted to get in touch with you maybe to book you to come and speak at a school, either virtually or in person or to buy some of your books, what would be the best way forward for that?

Susanne Gervay : 33:38

They can go to my website, which is a really easy website since it's my name. It's www.sgervay.com. But if you Google my name, just Google it, you'll find me because by a sheer miracle, my parents have a name that no one else has other than my siblings. So when you Google me, I'm gonna come up. My name is not Dave Smith. It is Susanne Gervay, an unsual name by a miracle.

Elizabeth Diacos : 34:23

Fantastic. All right. And so, before I just want to ask you, you know, when you left teaching into this field that you're in now, there were obviously a few little hiccups along the way as you got established. Any regrets?

Susanne Gervay : 34:40

Yes and no. No, the regrets are when I get rejected, then I am very sad and depressed. But overall, it is the life I want. It's a passionate life. I travel, meet kids (well, when we could travel) all over the world from Delhi to New York. It's an opportunity to advocate the causes that matter to me, which are literacy, and anti-bullying. So I am glad I did this, but it's not easy. You have to want to.

Elizabeth Diacos : 35:27

Okay, so, Susanne, before we wrap this up, I have a bit of a curly question for you now.

Susanne Gervay : 35:33

Yeah,

Elizabeth Diacos : 35:34

What's the legacy that you want to leave in the world?

Susanne Gervay : 35:38

Well, that's exactly why I write. Look, my parents were postwar refugees. And they struggled when they came to Australia. And I knew that I wanted to empower young people that they do not have to be victims, they can reach for their dreams. So my books are all based on that. And when I received the Order of Australia, for my work in children's literature, and young adult literature, I just felt like I was 100 ft tall! I was so deeply moved, because it sort of made my parents journey really valid. Like you come to a country here, and you live your life, trying to empower young people. And I received the Lifetime Social Justice Award for my body of work by the International Literacy Association, and look, that makes me happy. And I know that kids who read my books, yes, they must be entertaining. They are literate. They're all about literacy and literature. But ultimately, I seek to travel with young people in their development of values, so that they don't get lost on that rocky road called life. So that's my legacy, I think.

Elizabeth Diacos : 37:23

Susanne Gervay, thank you so much for coming on the Get Out of Teaching Podcast today.

Susanne Gervay : 37:28

My pleasure.

Elizabeth Diacos : 37:30

It's a wonderful legacy to leave in the world.

Susanne Gervay : 37:33

Thank you.

Elizabeth Diacos : 37:35

You have been listening to the Get Out of Teaching Podcast presented by Larksong Enterprises with your host Elizabeth Diacos. Do you know someone else who could benefit from hearing more stories of hope and transition from teachers all around the world? Please take a moment to share this and other episodes via your podcast app. Each share helps me reach listeners just like you who can benefit from this content the Get Out of Teaching Podcast is proud to be part of the Experts On Air Podcast Network. For show notes and other resources please visit larksong.com.au/podcast