What does it take to juggle the demands of being a mother in the entertainment industry while dealing with postpartum anxiety? Rachel Platten, singer-songwriter of the hit single, “Fight Song” joins us to share her perspective.
Her note to her fans on Spotify says it best, “Emotions are just waves, and I am the entire ocean.”
In our Season 3 kickoff episode, Rachel gives us the behind-the-scenes inspiration behind her touching song, “Girls” and unravels her personal experiences as a mom, including a moment where her daughter reacted emotionally to her live performance.
Together, we uncover profound lessons on trust, embracing disappointment, and the significance of female support in healing. Rachel's stories are a mirror to the challenges each one of us faces and the resilience we find within ourselves. Join us for this conversation, filled with real talk, important lessons and big laughs.
Listen to the end of the episode to hear a snippet from “Girls.” Warning, it cuts deeeeeep in the most stunning way!
Show Note Links:
Follow Rachel on Instagram: @rachelplatten
Follow Rachel on Facebook here.
Listen to 'Girls' here.
Please make sure to subscribe so you don’t miss an episode, and kindly review the podcast on Apple Podcasts so we can reach more working moms.
We always want to hear your thoughts, concerns, questions or guest suggestions – email workingmomhour@212comm.com.
Follow us!
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/workingmomhour
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/workingmomhour/
TikTok: https:/www.tiktok.com/@workingmomhour
Working Mom Hour Website: https://workingmomhour.com/
Subscribe to our YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/@workingmomhour
What does it take to juggle the demands of being a mother in the entertainment industry while dealing with postpartum anxiety? Rachel Platten, singer-songwriter of the hit single, “Fight Song” joins us to share her perspective.
Her note to her fans on Spotify says it best, “Emotions are just waves, and I am the entire ocean.”
In our Season 3 kickoff episode, Rachel gives us the behind-the-scenes inspiration behind her touching song, “Girls” and unravels her personal experiences as a mom, including a moment where her daughter reacted emotionally to her live performance.
Together, we uncover profound lessons on trust, embracing disappointment, and the significance of female support in healing. Rachel's stories are a mirror to the challenges each one of us faces and the resilience we find within ourselves. Join us for this conversation, filled with real talk, important lessons and big laughs.
Listen to the end of the episode to hear a snippet from “Girls.” Warning, it cuts deeeeeep in the most stunning way!
Show Note Links:
Follow Rachel on Instagram: @rachelplatten
Follow Rachel on Facebook here.
Listen to 'Girls' here.
Please make sure to subscribe so you don’t miss an episode, and kindly review the podcast on Apple Podcasts so we can reach more working moms.
We always want to hear your thoughts, concerns, questions or guest suggestions – email workingmomhour@212comm.com.
Follow us!
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/workingmomhour
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/workingmomhour/
TikTok: https:/www.tiktok.com/@workingmomhour
Working Mom Hour Website: https://workingmomhour.com/
Subscribe to our YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/@workingmomhour
I don't know if you guys feel this, but as working moms, I know we all have it as mothers but there's this really huge mom guilt that I feel like I'm always trying to climb out underneath that makes me do the most. So, because I'm not doing it all like all the time, when I am doing it I'm doing the most, and I just want to start to pull back a little bit and trust that I actually don't need to do so much in effort, so much that it's enough. I'm enough and the kind of mom I am is enough and the amount of time I have is enough.
Speaker 2:Welcome to Working Mom Out. Oh fuck, Boom, boom, boom, Boom, boom boom. Hi everyone, Welcome to Working Mom Hour. I'm Erica and I'm Madeline.
Speaker 3:We're working moms, business partners and friends with kids at different ages and stages.
Speaker 2:We know moms tend to get more done in an hour than the average human, yet are often misunderstood and underappreciated in the workplace.
Speaker 3:We are here to shine a light on the Working Mom experience, to help ourselves and others step into and advocate for the superpower. We are not experts. We're two women who have been there and are still there.
Speaker 2:Kids clients and all, join us as we cultivate more joy in working motherhood at the corner of calm and chaos MUSIC. Welcome to Season 3 of Working Mom Hour. We're kicking off with an incredible guest joining us the talented Rachel Platton. She's not only a singer, songwriter and author, but also a fierce advocate for women and moms.
Speaker 3:You probably know Rachel from her chart-topping hit Fight Song, which became an anthem for strength and resilience, but you might not know that she's been through her own challenges after having her daughters. She has bravely opened up about her experience with postpartum anxiety, using her platform to shed light on the topic and provide support for other moms.
Speaker 2:Rachel released a new song, Girls, inspired by her daughters. It's one of the most beautifully written songs we've ever heard and we dare you to listen without getting emotional.
Speaker 3:Truly. I've been texting it to all my girlfriends who are mothers of daughters. Beyond her music, rachel has made waves as a model in Aries' unretouched ad campaign promoting body positivity. She's lent her voice to charitable causes like Music Unites, autism Speaks and the Boys and Girls Clubs of America Plus. She's been volunteering with musicians on call for over 50 programs, singing bedside to hospital patients and bringing joy to those who need it most.
Speaker 2:We'll delve into Rachel's journey as a working mom, her music, her advocacy for mental health and so much more. It's an episode filled with real talk, laughter and empowerment. Help us welcome Rachel Platt. It's my time to rise up with the love of louder than noise.
Speaker 3:Rachel, it is a joy to have you here today. Thanks so much for being here.
Speaker 1:Thank you so much for having me.
Speaker 3:Your songs have inspired Uthas women and our daughters. Erica and I were just talking a couple of weeks ago that we both, without even knowing it, captured each of our daughters singing one of your songs in the bathroom, and we have the videos to prove it.
Speaker 4:That's so cute.
Speaker 3:That makes it even more special that our daughters are fans of you.
Speaker 1:Yes.
Speaker 3:How old are they, your girls? Mine are seven and five.
Speaker 2:Ok, yeah, and my daughter's 12.
Speaker 1:I'm wondering what age they discover it. It's bizarre to me that it just keeps getting discovered by any generations, over and over.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's powerful. When did you know you wanted to be a singer-songwriter, oof.
Speaker 1:You know, it wasn't obvious like a lightning bolt moment until I was 19, which seems crazy. When I was younger I loved to sing. I was always in choirs, I was in acapella groups, all the more academic side of the music industry, the part that felt that doable within the confines of growing up in a East Coast New England town that expected you to go to graduate school, or that was the path. I did not see a lot of artists around me, I certainly didn't know any songwriters and so it just wasn't something on my radar to shoot for. Maybe if I had been growing up on the West Coast I would have known earlier, but it didn't strike me until I was 19.
Speaker 2:Tell us about your new song, girls, and we challenge anyone listening to this song for the first time to not cry because it is so lovely. This is the song I caught my daughter. It's on her playlist and she gets ready in the morning every morning listening to this song at 12. Are you serious? Oh?
Speaker 1:I have goosebumps. Yes, oh my gosh, that makes me so happy, really.
Speaker 2:A special special song, and I can imagine you wrote it for your girls, but you wrote it for ours too. So we'd love to hear more about it.
Speaker 1:Thank you, first of all. That really means so much to me. I'm so grateful that it's had an impact. I did write it for my two girls, but also, as I was writing it, I knew that it was for all of us. I knew it was also to my inner child, to my little Rachie that probably never got to hear those words and needed them, and to all of us. I wrote it very intentionally as a love letter to my daughters.
Speaker 1:I have been working on my record the past three years and writing songs for it, and really, though I touched on a lot of themes of motherhood within the guidelines of how it impacted my mental health and how it impacted me as a person and the changes I really didn't talk directly to them in any of the songs.
Speaker 1:So I knew I wanted to have a song that was honoring them on the album, and so I intentionally went about writing it to them, and I'm just so proud of how it came out. It's such a joy to write, to think about all the things that I'd want them to know. I wrote pages and pages. I actually just put up a post on Instagram of a journal that I found with the actual original lyrics and where the idea was birthed from. And I wrote pages and pages of things that I'd want to tell them, and often with songwriting it takes a minute to boil it down to the absolute, truest thing. But there it is. It's documented, all these random ramblings from our mom to our daughters of what life can be like and how it's hard, and what I hope for them in the world.
Speaker 3:I hope you keep that forever.
Speaker 1:I'm going to throw it out. Actually, I'm going to throw it out, but no, but that's good. You said that I will.
Speaker 3:It must have been an emotional writing process.
Speaker 1:It was such a sweet thing, it was emotional, it was beautiful. I think I remember tearing up one of the days when I was writing it I wrote it over a series of a couple of months.
Speaker 1:It didn't come all at once. I wrote the beginning of that chorus within another songwriting session when we were working on another song with friends. Sometimes I take a break from a song if we're stuck by going over to the piano and just giving us a little palette cleanser and just noodling on the piano and another key and another rhythm altogether. And so I started doing that because we were a little stuck and I think I realized, as I was playing it well, this is really beautiful. And I just kept playing it and playing it and the other couple of writers in the room were like what is that? We didn't end up finishing it or doing anything more that day with it other than just like, hmm, that's so pretty. But several months later my sister was visiting and she heard it and was like Rachel, that's really special, let's write that to our girls. So, yeah, we finished it together and it was very beautiful. It was like a family effort in a way. I'd never really written with my sister in that way before.
Speaker 2:Oh, that's so nice. Your sister shows up a lot in your Instagram and it's fun to watch you two together.
Speaker 1:Oh, I love her. I wish that we lived closer. It's really hard. She's in New Jersey with her family and we don't see each other very much. So when we do, we're obsessive about filming it, because we're 40. And that's what you do, right?
Speaker 3:You do it early, true. How has your work shifted since having your daughters?
Speaker 1:It's been an interesting road to where I am now. I think right when I had my first daughter, violet, I was in this mindset. I don't know if you guys can relate this won't change me Like this won't change the way I work. I'm going to oh no, this is not messing with what I'm doing and I'm just gonna put my baby in the carrier, I'm gonna take her along, and I literally did just that Three months after I gave birth to Violet. It was insane.
Speaker 1:I went on a tour of the country and we lived on a tour bus me, my husband, my daughter and my dog. It was insane and we did maybe 50 shows and it was hard to turn down the tour because it was playing some of my dream venues with my friends Pentatonix and I'd never played Madison Square Garden and it always wanted to, and so it was like really hard to say no and I was kind of like why would I say no? What's the baby gonna change? Flash forward to me on the bus like not sleeping, breast milk dwindling, completely exhausted, postpartum symptoms developing, not knowing what was happening to me. So since then I have learned to integrate motherhood and music a lot healthier way and realize that, yes, I can have it all, but I just need to have them at different times.
Speaker 2:Yeah, how do you share your music with your daughters? Are they a part of the process? So I saw you just posted that they didn't really even know you sang until you are on stage and then I was like, oh, my mom's singing to everyone. Yeah, it's not just me.
Speaker 1:I think that was a little confusing for her. I know that she knows that I'm a singer. Like I say, mommy's a singer, daddy does business. Who knows what daddy does? I don't, still don't know, mommy, I'm just kidding, he's a consultant, but you know it's a little boring. So mommy's a singer, daddy's a businessman, and I don't think she understood it. That meant, though, even though she was on tour with me at three months, you'd think she'd remember. But yeah, she came to a show with me, she and her best friend, and I think she was a little blown away, kind of like what's happening. And it wasn't even a big show, it was just for a girl's rock camp in LA, and I purposely did it in a very small, controlled setting so that she could ease in and see me performing to little girls and see like, oh, but yeah, even that was a little strange for her. She burst into tears when I started singing. I thought it was because she was scared or overwhelmed. You know that mom guilt kicked in in the middle of fight song.
Speaker 1:You guys, I'm like singing fight song and I'm like oh god, oh, it was horrible and and I stopped the song because I'm such a helicopter parent I was like we have to stop my daughter's upset, but also I mean I don't know what mom could do that. You know like I love her so much, and it wasn't about the girls in the camp, it's a bigger picture. Yeah, that was about Violet and I stopped the song and I said I'm gonna start again, but let me check in on my daughter and I said what's wrong? Baby from the stage. She goes.
Speaker 5:I want to be on stage too.
Speaker 2:That's amazing.
Speaker 1:Is it? I was like, oh, we're gonna have to talk about boundaries like this. So she came on stage for the rest of the show and then she was happy, not crying anymore and wow it was cool. It was cool to see that her fear was not because mommy was on stage singing. It was more just like why can't I do that? I want to do what mom's doing.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah that's such a compliment. My husband and I talk about all the time showing our work to our kids. We have a good friend who was like you know. They see us at our worst a lot of times, but we have to give them opportunities to see us at our best and to see what we're giving other people professionally in our craft. So I think it's incredible that she wanted to be up there right next to you.
Speaker 1:I love that. That's that really is true. I'm gonna try to hold that because it is true. As working moms, first of all, I'm so happy to be on this podcast because you guys are speaking to this group of us that don't necessarily gather because we're so busy, because we have so many demands and we're being pulled in directions and so, you know, it's not like we necessarily have time or space to have our own community, and so the fact that you guys have created it that's why I was eager to be on here to have a conversation like this with women that understand me and women listening that understand, and yeah, I mean, it's just it's such a hard thing, right? So I am gonna remember to know that, like, when I get to show her my best, those moments really matter, because she does often see me freed and exhausted and being pulled in directions and like, let her see me shine too and see, like, the benefits of what I'm doing.
Speaker 3:This is why I'm gone. This is why I'm gone. Right, yeah, are there like songs that have inspired you as a mother, like other songs?
Speaker 1:I really love the song of Angeline by Brandi Carlisle. Have you guys heard that one? Yes, I love that one. I've loved Brandi for a long time and when I heard that one I just loved the way that she put it when she kind of used this language that was both so small and so large at the same time. Let my friends have their brunches and their whatever, because I am the mother of Angeline and I remember those early postpartum times when I was off tour after realizing I cannot do all of this at once. This is very overwhelming. My mental health is suffering and I pulled way back and got my world very small, and this is even before the pandemic. I just kind of created a very small little world around us and missed those things, missed that former self, missed that me that had energy for all of that. I'd had time for brunches and yet she uses this language that has this longing for the old and yet this celebration of the beautiful new, and I love that one. Do you guys have any others you recommend?
Speaker 2:You're going to sing fight song. It's like an anthem for just about anything. You're so cute.
Speaker 1:Other than other songs, like specifically about motherhood. Can you guys let us know listening?
Speaker 2:I'm curious what other songs that's a really good exercise for us to think through. We've always. Maybe we'll gather a list putting a playlist together, beyonce, with a lot of the songs that we were taking up.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's true, love it, love that idea. I work on playlist love it.
Speaker 2:I love watching moms like you. You know, beyonce has her daughter on stage. Now you have pink singing with her daughter you know, yes, you're right. I'm really enjoying seeing now artists coming out and including their, their kiddos.
Speaker 3:Showing their motherhood.
Speaker 2:And it's gotta be hard. You know, there's such a microscope on women who are becoming mothers, who are mothers publicly, whether it's actress, artist or athlete and it was tough to watch. We were talking about this around the Super Bowl Rihanna performing at all of the scrutiny. She got around her performance and people blaming motherhood for her not having that edge and we did a whole thing on it. It was really infuriating to hear that is shocking to me.
Speaker 1:I don't really follow like celebrity gossip, criticism kind of thing, that world very much so in my mind she totally killed it Like I was like I thought it was unbelievable and I thought the consensus was definitely oh my god, what a modern woman she did this pregnant? Yes, I can't believe people were criticizing that performance. What, the dick, no what the dick.
Speaker 1:Most of them had those that were criticizing Honestly like how do you, what do you want us to do? We create life. That's what we do. And for those of us that choose to continue following our passion, are we supposed to like step? You can't separate them. You know they aren't separate. It's always there. I can have my Rachel perform herself, but mother Rachel is always there informing that and like right, and it's so beautiful to integrate them and bring my family and bring my girls and like, yeah, talk about them and my song girls. I also have a whole record. That's not about them too, but I'm I don't know what I'm saying other than just like, ew, you can edit this out, but fuck those people that are making other criticizing her.
Speaker 3:Oh, we certainly won't edit that out.
Speaker 2:We see it in offices, too, and there are a lot of amazing women who are leading the charge in workplace environments so that women can feel comfortable bringing all of them into the workplace. So fuck all of them and I'm excited to see where we're going. Yeah, I think our girls will have such, hopefully, a different experience than what our mothers and grandmothers and what we at some level, have had to experience.
Speaker 1:I hope so.
Speaker 3:Okay, so you shared a little bit about your postpartum journey and the role it's played. What would you say to a woman experiencing it postpartum anxiety or depression right now, and are there tools that helped you through some of the hardest days?
Speaker 1:First of all, oh God, what a beast. I wouldn't wish it on my worst enemy. It is heartbreaking and hard, but there is light at the end of the tunnel. I mean, I'm here and I am probably, I think, entering my best days are ahead of me. I can feel it. I can feel it with my music, with my career, with my relationship with my girls, with my marriage. I feel joy and light again. So, first of all, to know that that is possible and will in fact happen is necessary when you're in the tunnel of depression that feels endless and all-encompassing. It's nice to know and have someone reach a hand back and be like I was there and I'm out and you will too. This is temporary, this is a season and you will be okay.
Speaker 1:And mine was brutal and I've talked about it a lot and don't really want to go into like all the details. But some of the tools that I used were everything from therapy to medication, to meditation and acupuncture and physical therapy and everything I could exercise and journaling. I mean, I tried everything. I put this fighter spirit into helping myself out of this hole, the same thing that I did to get my career launched. I will not give up attitude that kept me going for 15 years when I was on the road touring and no one would pay attention to my music.
Speaker 1:I'm a fighter through and through and I'm a hard worker, and I put both of those into helping myself out of this place and at the same time, it required a lot of softness and surrender, and I think motherhood showed me that I can't just force my way through. I can't just muscle and try my way through. I have to also soften and allow and surrender and stop resisting what is and know that it's temporary and a season. So yeah, to any women going through that right now I see you, I love you, I'm so sorry. I know how hard it is and I wish that I could hug you right now and let you know you will be okay, I promise.
Speaker 3:I love that. Thank you, you're welcome. I'll share that. My youngest daughter is five. She just turned five. I had like solid 11 months postpartum anxiety and it led us to adapting our third child, which is my son. Bless you. Good job Good decision.
Speaker 1:Yeah, we are so happy what decision.
Speaker 3:We try to go at this together and not have one of us want to murder the other Love it.
Speaker 1:What an amazing decision.
Speaker 3:But so he's two. We've had him for a little over a year and I feel like I, just in the past couple months, went from pursuing joy like what's going to bring me joy, what's going to be easier, what's going to be the path of least resistance ever since she was born Five years of that to I think I just made the mental shift towards now all I want is to pursue presence. How can I work on myself as much as I can in order to be more present with them, because this is our only reality? I have this new thesis I really believe that you know this like toxic message that comes like enjoy every moment.
Speaker 3:You'll miss someone. It's gone and it's just from this generation that misses it. And I think that the more we can pursue presence in all aspects good, bad ugly, postpartum depression, you know, like everything, if we can be there for it, then we can look back on it fondly, but we won't have to miss it. Living the life that you live, especially if you're going on the road or you're making music at a faster pace how do you maintain or pursue presence with your girls?
Speaker 1:I have a little story that I could share about it. Actually, from this morning so I have been just overwhelmed anxious as my I mean, I've run anxious, I'm Jewish and like it's just kind of fucking long generations of anxious people.
Speaker 3:I'm a woman. I just that's what it is.
Speaker 1:And so I'm kind of always a little anxious. But this morning I noticed myself in my periods coming in a couple of days. I'm just whatever. I was going to take my daughter to camp and like just had this edge yesterday the drop off was really tough. She doesn't love transitions. I know Violet by now. It's kind of cool to start to know our kids and be like all right, this is going to be tough for you. Drop offs are going to be hard when you go somewhere new. We don't. It's nothing shocking, but it's still hard.
Speaker 1:So anyway, this morning I was a little bit anxious about it Probably my husband's a little stressed at work, who knows what the things are and ran down to get everyone ready and stop myself and realize like oh, I need a minute, and went back upstairs and told my daughter, who did not want to go to tennis in the morning anyway, I wanted to skip it and go to the right to the pool. And I was like you know what? Screw tennis, you don't like it. I need a minute. You go outside and play with your sister, I'll be down in half an hour, we'll be late for camp. Who cares? And I'll be down.
Speaker 1:And I went upstairs and I put on some music that helps me tune in and I lay on my acupressure mat like a weirdo and I just took time. I put a blanket over me and put on a meditation and I just rested and tuned into my breathing and it took a minute to unwind. Like God I was wound, so tight. But as I started to really feel the tension melt and stop fighting the anxious thoughts like you said, matt's like just kind of letting them be there and not needing to change the moment as it was, but being like, yeah, I'm anxious, okay, that too, this too, I started to really relax and all of a sudden I hear little feet like up the stairs you all know that sound and you're like oh, my God.
Speaker 1:It's like the glenching of like body, like oh, and all of a sudden Violet runs in screaming with the most soul, much drama, and I did something new. Normally I will jump up and attend to her because, like I said, I'm I'm working on it as a parent, but the kind of parent that I've been so far in the four and a half years is a very kind of almost codependent. You're okay, I'm okay, I'm not going to manage your okayness so that I can feel okay. But I don't know what shifted this morning. Maybe I had just been dropping in enough that I just did not move. I didn't say anything and I didn't move.
Speaker 1:She knew I was laying there, she heard the music, she saw me and the strangest thing happened she just sat down, stopped crying, covered herself with a blanket and listened to the music too and soothed herself. And it was shocking to me. It was like this epiphany like whoa, wait a second, I'm modeling. I'm modeling this versus like the efforting where I'm then out of regulation and actually not able to help her calm down, like that doesn't help her. It really showed me. My God, could it be this easy? Not that I'm going to always be able to do that, because I'm not going to always have just meditated right before a tantrum, but it did show me something like hmm, it is true what they're saying and all these parenting classes, if I attend to my own body and myself and I really do it, not in the way that like we think we're doing it when we're following the scripts, where you're taking a deep breath, but you're really like shut up.
Speaker 5:How long do I have to take these deep breaths?
Speaker 1:But I was really actually calm. And then she got really calm and really still, and then I did not say a word. I looked up after 10 minutes and I saw her and I just gave her a little smile and she didn't even need it from me, she just was like in her own world. And then I just did what I was going to do. Anyway, that meditation ended.
Speaker 1:I sat up. I saw her in the chair next to me. I picked up my journal because I was going to write a couple of things. She saw me and she said I'm going to go get my journal and my markers. And I was like, okay, baby, she ran and got her own journal and the markers and she just started coloring and the two of us sat there. She was very late to camp, but the two of us sat there and we just did our thing. We regulated our own nervous systems next to each other and it was so amazing for me. I've never had that moment before. I don't know if I'll be able to recreate it, but I really hope that at least by memorializing it here, maybe at least someone other mom will hear it and try it, maybe I'll be reminded. It was cool and it was powerful, your body remembers.
Speaker 2:I bet you just can get back to that place because you know you've gotten there before.
Speaker 1:And I've seen that it actually works with her, Maybe like that neural path that we'll start to form Like, okay, I have another choice in this moment. It's just like this craving as I don't know if you guys feel this, but as working moms I know we all have it as mothers but there's this really huge mom guilt that I feel like I'm always trying to climb out underneath that makes me do the most. So, because I'm not doing it all, like all the time, when I am doing it I'm doing the most. I just want to start to pull back a little bit and trust that I actually don't need to do so much and effort so much that it's enough. I'm enough and the kind of mom I am is enough and the amount of time I have is enough. And, yeah, that's my goal right now.
Speaker 3:I love that about the little note about being late to camp when I was able to make that shift in the mornings that who cares if you're seven minutes late, if it's a difference between, like having a calm, loving morning with your family being on time for the 22 year old teacher who's gonna have him do jumping jacks in the parking lot. Yes, I Love that. Yes, I on the guilt thing. I also was playing pickleball last night with this group of four of us working moms and one of them was like I am Not loving the stay-at-home mom summer life. She feels so guilty all the time because the so bored. Everyone's going crazy and I was like thank you for sharing that. My kids are in all the camps every day and I'm feeling so guilty that they're in all the camps every day and so like let's give ourselves grace because Thank you for sharing that.
Speaker 1:I mean, I'm in your boat. My daughter's from like nine to two and she hates it. I'm like I don't care, you're going, I Need this, this. God knows. I don't know what she's doing. Who knows what her schedule is? I'm, I think she's in toddler gymnastics class right now and I both believe in not over-scheduling them, but also we need the time to, and they also go stir crazy, so I'm, they need time away?
Speaker 3:Yes, say that again. People in the back yes, they need time away from us.
Speaker 2:Yeah you had talked about having a Newborn practically on tour review. But how did it feel going back into the recording studio to create new music for the first time after having your oldest?
Speaker 1:Hmm, I'm trying to remember those earliest days of recording after violet. I think that it was strange because I was writing and writing is different than recording for me. I'm not doing them simultaneously right. With this record I have actually very intentionally separated the process because basically I created most of the songs on this record I'm pointing at my piano, but you can't see on my piano first because I wanted the songs to be so deeply personal and because my music for me.
Speaker 1:After having babies and after struggling with my mental health, it became necessary for me once again, no longer like what does the world need for me, but what do I need for my music? How can I heal myself with this beautiful act of self-love? So I was not actually recording them. At the same time it was more like A tortured writer in an office, like just crying and scribbling pages and and on the piano, and that was more what it was like for me. So going back in to do that after violet was different than when I actually got to the studio to make this record, which was felt like complete elation, complete freedom, complete joy. My god, I cannot believe I get to return to this thing that I love more than anything. And now so full as a mom, because you know the writing process was tortured and hard and like emotional and it was often an outlet but like then, actual, the release of, like going to record them, oh, freedom, and like elation and joy, it was just, it was incredible.
Speaker 2:It's amazing. It's amazing good.
Speaker 3:And then when you see your music go out into the world, maybe let's take girls or even fight songs. Have you gotten any messages back that have been powerful About the impact?
Speaker 1:Oh yeah, I mean fight songs. It's been 10 years next year and I think oh my god, I know.
Speaker 1:I know it's gonna make us all feel very old, but like and I still, to this day, get messages every day about how people are Discovering it for the first time or how it's their anthem and if that is just amazing to me, like that song, I don't know how it does it, but it's just, I guess, gonna live on forever and have its own thing in the world, but with girls. I have received beautiful messages and Beautiful comments from moms, from daughters missing their mothers, from people wishing that they'd heard those messages, from moms and maybe they didn't have the best relationship with, from dads of daughters, from, you know, moms of boys and and just parents and young people alike. I think what they're feeling in it is a mother's love, and it might be something that I'm craving in the world. Maybe other people are too, and maybe that's why it's gotten such a beautiful response.
Speaker 3:The song like digs so deep it's almost painful to listen to like. This is my love. This is such a strong Love that it's painful to be in that moment, to feel that way, but in like a beautiful way.
Speaker 2:We were listening to it like simultaneously together and I'm like we might have to hit pause for a second. My husband was listening to it too and he was sobbing. I was like, oh really, you did a really, really job. Well done, it's a special one. It is a healing song and it it says things that I hope my daughter knows that I have been able to say to her, but you really say it clearly.
Speaker 3:Thank you Like simply.
Speaker 2:Yes, yes, thank you.
Speaker 3:Thank you so much. The other Thing I love I have two girls Like me, yeah, just like you. So I was able to talk about you, have each other. You know what is that. I hope you can turn to each other, yes.
Speaker 1:Yes, I was thinking, I think, my sister, because she and I were like Brains strong in the lyrics.
Speaker 1:I think I was also thinking of my sister and then my daughters and hoping that they would have that friendship and no, because that love of sisters or even, you know, a chosen sister, a best friend, or Chosen sister, I love that when we support each other, there's nothing better, there's nothing better, and I often wonder if people set up this idea in the world or have perpetuated this lie that we compete with each other, when I don't find that to be true, do you? When women gather, I do not find that. I find that there's this, at least when we're all centered in ourselves and feeling safe, I find that our natural state is to completely support and create community and lift up together and collaborate, and it's beautiful.
Speaker 3:Yeah, that is the key the centered natural state. Yes, yes, yes.
Speaker 2:I think it still does Exist. I'm watching it with my daughter. She's 12. She's in the tween stage, so to sort of, yeah, see it happening. I mean it's tough. It's really, really, really painful to watch. Oh god, what do you? Do I don't, I don't know yet.
Speaker 3:But like a beautiful All that she can go through it while you're there. You know, yeah.
Speaker 1:I love that. At least you can witness it. We know enough now. Hopefully we had a guest on our show.
Speaker 2:It was sort of like this teen whisper and I'm a fixer I think most women are and so immediately when there's a problem, she'll get in the car and she'll start complaining and I just move into let's fix it immediately. Again back to what you said. I need you to feel good so I can feel good. I'm getting anxious.
Speaker 2:Yeah, because you're anxious, I mean, and she was like you got to sit in the suck. Complaining is part of what teens Use for connection to, so you just got to sit In it with her and to teach her how to sit in the suck. I mean, we're learning it together, because I don't know how to sit in the suck. It's really, really fucking hard to sit in the suck.
Speaker 1:But neither do I oh god and and that's stuff that brings up that stuff that we haven't fully healed ever and like address like middle school was brutal for me. I remember just feeling so alone and weird and left out and just like I oh god, I'm not looking forward to that. I'm hoping that Maybe my tools of self regulation that I'm learning now because of all this work I've had to do to like get myself back to sanity and joy will help and kick in. But I love what you're saying, erica, that it's really not about fixing it. It really never is with anyone, is it?
Speaker 1:And that mindset actually is really dysregulating for us. It's what has really exhausted me and made me feel alone in the world. So when I can, like I'm working on that in therapy, a lot actually is like I do not have to hold this all, I do not have to fix this all. It is not my responsibility. I can just sit next to you in, like you said, sit in the suck, and but I'm with you. We need a support group for how to do that. It is hard.
Speaker 2:It is hard. Luckily, there are places that you can turn like. Instagram has a lot of. When you get to that stage and you start to like research it, there are a lot of tools available to you but the simplest is just sit in it with them. I tell Ellie all the time there's no dollar amount that you can pay me to have me redo my middle school and high school. Ellie is your daughter, Ellie is my daughter.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I feel like that's so awesome, even that alone that you would tell her that and then she can know, like no, but she can know. Guys, I'm sure you guys listen to Dr Becky, or like Dr.
Speaker 3:Becky, oh yes.
Speaker 1:One script that I love that she said that I do a lot actually is just looking at your kid and being like it's hard to be a kid, huh, and Violet loves that one. Like she's like, yeah, it is. And then I really actually mean it Once I say it, for sometimes I'm using it as a tool but then, like when I say it, I actually remember Do you guys remember that the loneliness, the feeling out of control, the feeling. I remember these grownups deciding my life for me and how hard it was. And sometimes I think, like you did for Ellie, like just recognizing that what they're feeling is valid is really validating is yeah, yeah, circular logic, but yeah, it's powerful. You know, if I'm going through this something and my husband can just say to me yeah, honey, I see that that seems really hard and I love you, that's all I want sometimes.
Speaker 2:All I need I don't want the fucking answer yeah, yes, my husband's also a consultant and it's hard to be married to someone who has answers always. Man, you're in the same boat, there's always answers.
Speaker 3:My husband also a consultant. I feel like I'm my best self to him when I'm not trying to fix his business. So I'll be like, oh, did you try this and this and this? And he also shuts down and I'm like, okay, dang, feminine, trust that he can run his own business. It goes both ways.
Speaker 1:Oh, can you give me advice about that? Actually, my husband is actually going through something he's stressed out right now about work, and every alzamy wants to have solutions. How do I know? What am I gonna do? No, okay, no.
Speaker 3:We both work with this intuitive coach, who's incredible, and it's just the best thing we can do is trust them in their ability to handle their shit and just support them.
Speaker 1:Love that Also. That's for our kids, right.
Speaker 2:It's everybody. Is that yes, yeah.
Speaker 3:It's so powerful. Never thought of it like that. I love that.
Speaker 1:Love what you just said. Trust Ellie. Trust that like, just like you got through it, just like I got through it, she can get through it. And we don't have to be the chickens with their heads cut off, running around trying to fix things and solve them and micromanage her every experience. I'm talking about myself, not Ellie right now, but you know that is so hard.
Speaker 3:My five year old will lock in, sucking her thumb, holding her clothes and her underwear that she's picked out for herself but wants me to put them on her. My old school.
Speaker 1:What do I?
Speaker 3:do in that I know you can do this, or do I just embrace the connection and then know that she can handle her shit at school, even if she doesn't want to dress herself?
Speaker 1:I vote number two most of the time. Number one when you have time for a battle right, like when you have time for a tantrum, and the energy, yeah, and the energy for it.
Speaker 1:Otherwise, screw that, just give them. But remember with Violet she refused to put on her shirt. She just deeply emotionally against it until she was like four. We were like this is getting pathetic, like come on, and I would just give in every day, give in because I always give in. And then finally one day I think I had read enough Dr Becky, or like Shafali or something, and I was like, ok, I'm sitting right here. Whatever reaction you're going to have is fine with me. I'm in it for the long haul. Go ahead and have your tantrum, you can go outside and no shirt, these are your options. And I just didn't do it. And it was horrible, but it worked.
Speaker 3:So, but it worked, it worked, but you have to review ready. What's the name of that other woman we interviewed Erica about like neurodivergent kids, but she was like awesome. It was Dr Emily King. Yes, yes, she was awesome and I remember telling a story, yeah she's super cool.
Speaker 3:I was telling a story about how I would just like bring my kids shoes in the car with us because they wouldn't want to put them on. And I didn't want to deal with it. And she, like so gently, was talking about something else. And she's like Ian, if you want them to learn how to do something, they have to do the thing. And then she moved on and I'm like oh, I'm going to take an L for that one.
Speaker 4:OK, I know, I know.
Speaker 2:Oh, it's so hard. It's like Mads. I got to be in California and we are working in person and we were separating the kids for some reason. I was like you know what, Just tell your daughter, blah, blah, blah. Just if my daughter is capable of disappointment. I was in the back, I was like walking into the bathroom and I like sat down on the toilet and I was like my daughter is capable of disobeying. I sat for 30 seconds longer than I needed to. Just processing that. Wow, all right, all right, that's a statement.
Speaker 5:I heard that line the other day. One of my friends said oh, they're capable of disappointment, and I was like whoa. And I'm always thinking in a way to not disappoint anyone, but then you end up disappointing.
Speaker 3:And self-discipline. Your self-experience, your self-experience, yeah, oh true.
Speaker 1:How many of us suffer from this same thing? Why?
Speaker 2:Yes. What about my conditioning?
Speaker 1:Yes, yes, the good girl, the good girl, and I wonder actually how common it is, especially in working moms versus stay-at-home moms. I'm just curious from the community is it a thing where this type of person, that were people pleasing success-oriented goodists like good girls? Yeah, I don't know, it's just an interesting. I'd like to see some data on that Fascinating, Said the nerd.
Speaker 3:Let's get some data for the lady. This is one of my absolute data. I don't know, oh my gosh.
Speaker 1:How do we know that we're all capable of disappointment?
Speaker 5:How do we let that land? What I was going to say earlier to this is, I feel like it's putting yourself in the shoes of yourself. At that age, or any age, I think about the hardest lessons I've had to learn in my life or things I've gone through. It's like you have to go through it alone. And it's not that you can't have advice from other people, but because I mean, I don't know what I would do without friends, family, all that stuff. But I was the one at the end of the day who had to sit on my couch and be like hmm, this is where I'm going wrong, this is where. So to put the responsibility back into your child's hands, I think is a powerful thing. All that to say if they're exhibiting self-destructing behaviors, that's a different time time to be in it.
Speaker 1:Right, we step in.
Speaker 5:In the sense of how do you deal with heartbreak? It's like you deal with it. How do you deal with a friend kissing you off?
Speaker 3:You go through, you deal with it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and we don't want to rob them of the things that formed us. An example. I know that Bitesong would not have been written without the 15 years of torture in my mind of the nose, and the rejection, and the endless searching and not finding. If I had gotten what I wanted after three years of being in the industry and trying, there's no way I would have written an anthem that has helped people in their darkest moments. I wouldn't have needed it, and so someone had robbed me of that. They would have taken away my greatest work. We can't do that to other people. Mic drop, yep, yeah.
Speaker 2:Done.
Speaker 5:I don't know if people listening to this are going to be wildly depressed at that fact, or they're going to be inspired by that.
Speaker 2:No, inspired, inspired and no on the other side of it, there's a reason.
Speaker 3:Yes, it's bringing you to your next phenomenal.
Speaker 5:Yes, yes, let's go with. Inspired.
Speaker 3:I think so. Because it was different doesn't mean it would be better.
Speaker 1:Yes, yes, even if we look back now at the hardest things we went through, life is so interesting like this. We can make meaning out of it. You know my therapist is always like there's not purpose all the time, but we are meaning, making creatures, and we can make meaning out of the hardest moments and even the deaths and the grief, the suffering and the mental health breakdowns and all of it. We can make meaning and there is beauty that comes after it, no matter what, and we can trace it backwards and look and connect those dots. We can't do it in the moment, but we can have some perspective looking at other hard times we've gone through. At least I'm telling myself that, as I'm just coming out of another really hard period.
Speaker 2:Yep, yeah, that's true. I don't want to be at time, rachel, but we are.
Speaker 3:It's so fun Top filler yeah.
Speaker 2:It was such a fun conversation. Thank you so much.
Speaker 1:I loved talking to you guys. This was so fun. I was looking forward to it so nice.
Speaker 2:Follow Rachel on all her social platforms. We'll link them in our show notes. It's been such a pleasure.
Speaker 1:You're fun. Thank you, rachel Guys you know what you can, though. Play a little bit of Girls. I would love for some of that. Yeah, we'd love that.
Speaker 2:Oh, that's a question we were going to ask. Do we have your permission to be able to play that, please? Absolutely, I would love that.
Speaker 5:OK good Sometimes. I know copyright issues. No, you have my permission.
Speaker 4:OK, all right.
Speaker 5:Wow, it's like the first time in my life I'll ever get copyright permission from the artist. You know what I mean. Yeah, go play directly. Take it to the break. Mother, Like, isn't the song like happy?
Speaker 1:By the way, I have no idea if I'm allowed to give you that copyright permission, but I think so. Yeah, whatever, go for it, don't ask the mission Make apologies yeah.
Speaker 3:Bye guys Thanks, Rachel Thank you, it was fun.
Speaker 2:Bye.
Speaker 4:I hope you always know your words, though I know that life can hurt. Hope you know that you can turn to each other. Girls, you were born to run to reach the stars and chase the sun. Girls, you were wild and free. The wind is at your back. The world is at your feet.
Speaker 4:Sometimes life can feel unfair. Broken hearts you can't repair. Sometimes you might be scared that no one gets you. It's not easy being brave when tears are falling down your face, but that's how you'll find your strength. So I'll let you. Girls, you were born to run to reach the stars and chase the sun. Girls, you were wild and free. The wind is at your back. The world is at your feet. Someday friends might turn their backs. Fallen leaves might arch your path. You'll try hard, might come at last, yeah, but just around the corner. You'll move mountains. You'll make waves. You'll be fearless. You'll be brave. There'll be nothing you can't face. Hope you always know your words, though I know that life can hurt. Hope you know that you can turn to each other. Hope the road ahead is clear. And I hope you know, when I'm not here, that you'll always have the love of your mother.