Imagine a world where personal finance is not perplexing, but a superpower.
This is precisely the world that Shinobu Hindert, a certified financial planner and author, invites us to step into. In this episode, she shares her journey with money, from her early experiences as a first-generation American to her insights gathered as a professional in the finance industry.
We also chat about her book that you'll want to get your highlighter out for, 'Investing is Your Superpower."In this episode, we unpack the baggage and imposter syndrome we carry, especially when learning something new, like personal finance. Shinobu also offers advice on navigating the financial field as a working mom and how we can help our children understand money and build a healthy cycle of awareness. Join us!
Show Notes:
Explore Empowered Planning here.
Please make sure to subscribe so you don’t miss an episode, and kindly review the podcast on Apple Podcasts so we can reach more working moms.
We always want to hear your thoughts, concerns, questions or guest suggestions – email workingmomhour@212comm.com.
Follow us!
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Working Mom Hour Website: https://workingmomhour.com/
Subscribe to our YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/@workingmomhour
Imagine a world where personal finance is not perplexing, but a superpower.
This is precisely the world that Shinobu Hindert, a certified financial planner and author, invites us to step into. In this episode, she shares her journey with money, from her early experiences as a first-generation American to her insights gathered as a professional in the finance industry.
We also chat about her book that you'll want to get your highlighter out for, 'Investing is Your Superpower."In this episode, we unpack the baggage and imposter syndrome we carry, especially when learning something new, like personal finance. Shinobu also offers advice on navigating the financial field as a working mom and how we can help our children understand money and build a healthy cycle of awareness. Join us!
Show Notes:
Explore Empowered Planning here.
Please make sure to subscribe so you don’t miss an episode, and kindly review the podcast on Apple Podcasts so we can reach more working moms.
We always want to hear your thoughts, concerns, questions or guest suggestions – email workingmomhour@212comm.com.
Follow us!
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/workingmomhour
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/workingmomhour/
TikTok: https:/www.tiktok.com/@workingmomhour
Working Mom Hour Website: https://workingmomhour.com/
Subscribe to our YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/@workingmomhour
I was shocked at how many people didn't know what I perceived to be fundamental information that everybody should know. Welcome to.
Speaker 2:Working Mom Out. Aw, fuck, Hi everyone. Welcome to Working Mom Out. I'm Erica and I'm Madeline.
Speaker 3:We're Working Mom's business partners and friends with kids at different ages and stages.
Speaker 2:We know moms tend to get more done in an hour than the average human, yet are often misunderstood and underappreciated in the workplace.
Speaker 3:We are here to shine a light on the Working Mom experience, to help ourselves and others step into and advocate for the superpower. We are not experts. We're two women who have been there and are still there kids, clients and all. We are here to help you, to bring us, as we cultivate, more joy in working motherhood at the corner of calm and chaos.
Speaker 2:I'll be the first to admit that I was not excited about today's Working Mom Hour conversation around finances, but our guest, shinabu Hindert, called out the fact that many women with careers managing people, running businesses, balancing department budgets are reluctant to admit not knowing when it comes to their finances and planning for the future. As intimidating as it may be, it's something we need to understand. We work too hard to let not knowing stand in the way of achieving a lifestyle we want. I heard that message loud and clear today.
Speaker 3:Yes, and I just have to share this personal anecdote. I've always been fine with money not amazing, since I'm not a detailed person, as you know, but randomly, a few weeks ago I was playing a pickleball tournament and mid game, I kid you not, I had this like palpable shift in mindset about money. I don't even think I've told you this, erica. It was like really bizarre. Like one moment I'm thinking about the game and the next moment I was like, wow, this tournament and these players are amazing and it's not fancy. I don't think we need our fancy gym membership that we're paying a lot for and like for the remainder of the game, which we like totally lost, but that I'm sure it's because I was having this big revelation.
Speaker 3:But I spent the rest of the game getting idea after idea of the steps I was going to take to transform our finances. I know this is really weird. This is not typical math. I was like I'm going to remove Instacart from my phone. Door dash is going to be gone. Amazon is just desktop now. No, I'm serious. I cannot explain it, but I promise you it was a higher power because, like, the granularness of the way I was thinking is just not typically me, and then I was on a coaching call with this like incredible intuitive coach who you know, melissa Leggett, and she mentioned that around that time there was a collective shift in consciousness around money happening no.
Speaker 3:I'm dead serious, so I must have been like open or in the right place at the right time or whatever, to tap into that. So I had to share that and, with that said, this is a good conversation. Shinabu's fun. She wrote this book that I'm reading, called Investing is your Superpower, and it's an engaging, easy read. It's not boring and it explores concepts like unpacking the baggage you have around money, money mindset, knowing your numbers and grasping investing essentials, just to name a few, and I would absolutely recommend it.
Speaker 2:Oh my gosh, I'm still processing that you got rid of DoorDash and Amazon and. Instacart on your phone and we are going to do this later but yes, Shinabu was so great. She's a certified financial planner, money expert, bestselling author and creator of Empowered Planning. She spent the first half of her career working for some of the country's largest financial institutions and created personal financial plans for high net worth individuals, overseeing more than 350 million in client assets.
Speaker 3:Now Shinabu has taken all her knowledge and created a simple method for teaching personal finance. You may have read her advice in Forbes, buzzfeed or heard her recently on the very popular Gold Digger podcast. She wants to simplify the complex world of investing and empower women everywhere to reach financial freedom. Even if this topic makes you squirm, keep listening. You'll get a lot out of this episode. Help us welcome Shinabu Hindert.
Speaker 2:So nice to see you, shinabu. Thank you for being here. I'm working my hour.
Speaker 1:Yes, thank you for having me. I've been listening to so many episodes and I'm just excited to be on here, yay.
Speaker 2:Awesome, so we'll jump right in. You are a first generation American and you have an incredible story about your parents involving you in money conversations at a very young age. Can you share more about that and the positives and some of the challenges that may have come out of those childhood money conversations?
Speaker 1:Sure, I do think at the time when you're in it, you're like this is what's normal, this, everybody goes through this. And now, as an adult, I'm like, oh yeah, that was interesting or unique, I should say. So, growing up, my father is from Kenya, in Africa, my mother is from Japan and we lived in New Jersey, so we didn't have any family in the United States at all. And when my father was growing up, he had lost his mother at an early age and then he had lost his father before he turned 18. He kind of had to just start working on his own and really learn how to take care of himself. So that, of course, stuck with him for the rest of his life, and then he had children in his early 20s.
Speaker 1:So it was something he kind of was always messaging to me to be extra careful around certain things. And I remember one day we were eating dinner and my dad was like I need to sit down and have this conversation, I need to talk to you, and he just laid it out. He was like your mom's family doesn't speak English and they live in Japan, and there was no WhatsApp at that time, there was no smartphone, so it was like you had to know their phone number. And then his family was all in Kenya. So he laid it out and said if we die tomorrow, you and your sister, you guys, are completely on your own and you need to know how things work and you need to know how much money we make, how much money we spend every month, what the situation is, because if we're gone tomorrow You're completely on your own. And I was probably about seven or eight years old and.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I was like Holy crap, you know. But it was real, because I knew that we didn't have family parties that we were going to. So I understood that, yeah, and was scared. And from then on we really sat down Probably a few times a week and he would just tell me things about challenges he was facing at his job. He would talk to me about money I mean, we knew when we didn't have enough money to ask for new sneakers and that kind of thing. So I was always in tune with that.
Speaker 1:The positives were that I was really interested in learning more about money or money management. And then, leaving the college, I was like, oh, you can have a financial plan, you can plan for these things. They're not just like working and paying for things, and that was really interesting to me. And then Investing I was like, well, I know nothing about investing, so it brought this draw for me to learn more about it. So those, I think, were the positives that the challenges that I faced was this fear that I had around money that at any point in time, you know it was the kind of never gonna be enough or things were gonna be taken away from me. So I started to hoard money as a kid.
Speaker 1:So if I was doing chores, I worked as many jobs as I could. From a younger age, it was mostly retail that I worked in, but I would actually take money and I would put them in different envelopes. I had a system. I can't tell you what the system was, but I would take money and I'd put them in an envelope and then I would actually hide it Somewhere in my room in drawers. This would become a practice that I would do and it was for me just the safety net and as an adult, looking at that, I'm like what was I? You know, what was I doing? And in my child mind I was saving it for this pending emergency that's gonna happen.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that I needed, and so that isn't necessarily something that went away, even though I started a career in the financial industry. So even today I face a lot of fear around making financial decisions, especially big decisions. I catch myself in this thing where I'm like frozen or I don't think I can't make this decision, so that emotional part takes over. I and I talk about it in my book I've created a system to get over that and to work around it, because I'm like it's not going away, it's part of who I am.
Speaker 1:I can't undo that or I can't, you know, relive that in a different way, but I have to be able to work together with it, so I will treat my children a little bit differently, but I was always in touch with kind of everything going around us with as a family and I think it really brought a lot of Financial maturity to me, even by the time I was in my early 20s.
Speaker 2:With the envelopes? Were you watching your parents do that? I'm only asking because I'm also first-generation and my grandparents are from Italy, and there was like money hidden all over the place and, like my mother did the same Thing, we were moving her out of her home and we left the curtains and she was like wait, I have jewelry in the curtain. She would like hot and I.
Speaker 2:But I was like if you never told, if you weren't moving and didn't tell us that we would have sold the house with the jewelry, sure yeah in the curtains. Wow, yes, so I wasn't sure if that was like something you witnessed, if it was sort of the the immigrant mentality of keeping the money Sort of in your home versus trusting outside folks with managing it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so I know for sure they kept some cash. It wasn't Something that I saw, though. This was just my system that. I had, yeah, and I think I was keeping it for different things. One was emergency, one was a second-tier emergency, just like I was like random, but I like what you're supposed to do as an adult right.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I lost some.
Speaker 1:I remember looking and I was like I know I have an envelope with this and I couldn't find it and I was like this is a problem.
Speaker 3:Wow, I'm curious. Do you have a recommendation or, based on your experience, on how or when to begin involving your kids in money conversations? I know that in my adult life, as we're all sort of trying to recreate the lives that we want for our kids, that we didn't have or stop generational cycles, I Sometimes wish that my parents talked to me more about money. On the flip side of you, who Probably wish they talked to me when you were a little older, do you have any thoughts on what is the optimal?
Speaker 1:time frame. I am definitely not an expert in talking to children about money, but what I tried to do, and what I will continue to do, is just be really open and to talk about it, so it's not this uncomfortable thing.
Speaker 3:Be afraid.
Speaker 1:Yeah, or this inappropriate thing, I think, from my mother. She came from a conservative Japanese family and for women to talk about money was not part of the norm, and then for you to talk about money to a child was definitely not her comfort zone and I think she felt it highly, highly inappropriate where she was like this child doesn't need to know how much money we're making. That is private information and I remember my saying but if we're gone tomorrow, she needs to know this, and so I think my mother knew that was a valid concern, so she allowed it, but it definitely made her really uncomfortable. So I kind of look at that as, as I talk to people that come to me or they can be really uncomfortable about money Like this is a super private thing and I can't share it with you. So I think, being really open and in Kind of economics terms, when we talk about money changing hands and moving around, it's considered money velocity, where's money going, how quickly is it exchanging hands?
Speaker 1:Then what's happening or people saving it or going and spending it, and that's kind of why we're in this inflationary period right now Just how fast money is changing hands. But I try to talk to the kids about that in very simple terms of when we go to work, we're earning money and then what are we doing with that money? So when we go to the grocery store, I'm reminding them like hey, we're here, we're buying food, where do we get the money from? And they're like you work and daddy works.
Speaker 3:And then we go awareness building.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and even it helps them that finishing their meals, eating food, it's just a soft, gentle reminder that, guys, this isn't free, right? I think this came from something. This is I'm going to work, this is food that you're eating and you know doing it that way and then letting them know. So the grocery store we're paying them money and then they have to pay the people in the store they have to pay to. You know, keep the vegetables in the store and then there's trucks.
Speaker 1:So really, just explaining a whole cycle of what that looks like, I think it Can also teach them respect for places that we go, that everybody is, they're actually working. You know, it's not like I have to go to work, it's like well, it's part of how Everybody has to do those things in order for us to live the lives that we want to live. Everybody is working to help us and then just sharing, so, as much as I can, sharing cost how much something costs with them, even though in their minds Maybe they don't understand what that means, but I think, especially as they get older, because when we were growing up, if we needed school supplies, it's like notebooks, pencils, pens, where now it's like an iPad.
Speaker 1:You need headphones thousand dollar, I bet yeah, and for them to just understand Well, how many hours does it take, after taxes, for me to get a thousand dollars to then spend on on school? Just to give them an understanding of of this? And I remember yesterday my son was like, mommy, thank you for Taking time from your work to take me to soccer practice. And I was like, oh, but like I'm happy to do it, but like, yeah, you better recognize, like you know, I'm just kidding.
Speaker 1:But I mean, this is great that these gentle soft kind of raising awareness all the time they're doing something with that internally on their own and able to recognize big picture. So I would just be open, talk about it and see where they want to take it. They will probably have a lot of questions and you can just kind of answer those questions in simple terms.
Speaker 3:Oh, I love that. I'll just share this briefly. But my seven year old is interested in money right now and saving it and spending it on things. And we're planning a lemonade stand right now and we have it all planned out where it's going to be the last day of school, by the beach, like when everyone's coming to the beach.
Speaker 3:And I said how much do you want to charge for a cup of lemonade? And she said I want to charge $5, because if I sell 10 cups of lemonade, I'll make $50. And if I only charge $1, I'll only make $10. I was like, okay, I see what you're saying. She's not wrong. I said I found that only worth how much someone will pay, and typically lemonade is not quite that expensive.
Speaker 3:So what are some ways we could make that cup of lemonade feel like there's more value? How can we make it even better? And like, what could we add to it? And she was like drink umbrellas. I was like, yeah, drink umbrellas sounds great, something else. And we come up with a straw and ice and put it in a big cup and free refills and things like that. And then I went to Chris and I was like Chris, I'm going to need help navigating this conversation tonight. Like she wants to charge $5. How else can we get her to think about it? And he was like how about you do a survey, mary PM, where you go and talk to 10 adults at school and ask what they would pay for a cup of lemonade? So she went and she asked, and then we taught her how to like average it and so we got her down in price a little bit. I think it's like 150 or something.
Speaker 1:But that's how we navigated it.
Speaker 3:Yes, or market research, and I had no idea how to do it, but we just did it. So I thought that was really cute and powerful, and I had ideas and Chris had ideas and we just sort of blended them together. But I don't feel like there's a right way or a right time to do it either. I mean, it kind of depends on the kid, I guess.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and how resourceful of her to actually go and you know, close the loop of asking people these questions, because it's probably a little intimidating for her, but at the same thing, like to understand how money works, that people aren't just going to throw $5 at it, that that's what they're comfortable with and now she's comfortable accepting a lesser amount because of that. So I think at their level, because my daughter was saying something like, oh, because you'll just give me money, and that was her answer to everything.
Speaker 4:Yeah, totally.
Speaker 1:Actually that's not how it works. So I think that when they bring it up to just expand on it a little bit more, I think that is a beautiful story you shared.
Speaker 2:I love it. I love that entrepreneurial spirit. You had mentioned your mom being uncomfortable talking about it and that traditionally women don't talk about money or really get into careers. I think it's still very male dominated industry financial planning and banking and finance. I'm curious what your experience was like as a woman and a woman of color working on Wall Street.
Speaker 1:I think that, at least for me, when you're graduating college, you're like bright-eyed and bushy-tailed and you're like, what do I want to do?
Speaker 1:And then you have this rude awakening of like nobody wants you to do anything. Yeah, you can just make photocopies and try to work a giant machine and get a paper out of a jam. My perception of just being a younger person getting a job versus how much was it because I was a woman, how much of it was because I was a person of color. I have a very unique name. I think that at first glance for a lot of people in the industry was a turnoff and I experienced that through life of people getting my name wrong, saying it wrong, asking me if they could just call me something else, just constantly having this and being different, even within my own family. I don't look like my mother, I don't look like my father. So just always being different I think kind of gave me tougher skin when I entered into that workforce and it was like well, you're a woman, you can be an assistant, that's where you're going to go and then that's your career path. I think questioning that and pushing a little bit farther was because I already had this tough skin. I think if I didn't, I might have been either stayed in an assistant spot or I might have been like I don't want to work in this industry. I think it's more friendly now working in the financial industry. Even from five years ago, I think so much has changed but I definitely had, I thought, a ceiling over my head right from the beginning, because in that field that I was working in you have to be kind of a top performing salesperson to be successful. So if you look at that and you have a new college grad right, what would make them a top performing salesperson? Probably nothing yet. But there's paths and training where I just wasn't given the opportunities to take those paths. So I think that's when I was like okay, there's clearly something else going on here and I kind of doubled down on education of becoming certified financial planner because I was like fighting for these jobs that I wasn't getting. And then I was sitting there like I don't even have any experience. So for me to say that I should have this job, would I even be good at it, would I even like this job? And I went out and got a sales job where I was 100% commissioned. I had a 2000 per month draw that I had to cover. And if you didn't cover it they would so nicely give you the 2000 that month to keep you afloat. But then the following month, let's say you made $5,000, you'd have to give them back the 2000 that they gave you the month before.
Speaker 1:So I was like this is a way for me to find out do I really want to live in this kind of environment? And I did. I had a lot of fun with it. I was pretty successful in that. And that's when I was like okay, this is something that I want to do, and went back. It kind of took a sidestep from financial planning and then went back. But at least at that time I was like now, if I want to fight for an opportunity, I at least know that this is something I can do.
Speaker 1:I think I was questioning a lot of that before and I did have. I guess I had a chip on my shoulder because I had been told no so many times or not even considered for opportunities. It was like dope. But then I would see other people that didn't have a bunch of jobs before they graduated, didn't have relevant, any kind of experience, but yet they were getting put on this path to becoming this salesperson in the financial industry. And I'm looking like the only difference between us is he's a male, I'm a female. And what have I been doing all these internships for, like? What have I been doing all these jobs for, if apparently it doesn't really mean anything? And so I kind of took that very personally and carried that with me probably for too long.
Speaker 1:And finally, I think when I was just getting really agitated and was unhappy at work, I realized like I can't expect everyone to lay out a red carpet because I feel like I'm in the right place. What can I do to soften this? And I think it was just the old saying kill them with kindness. And I think I just tried to be like how can I be the best support for all of the people around me? And it shifted. It really shifted other people's experiences with me too, because I was sure I was walking around like frustrated and instead of me just being like this is on everybody else, I was like hey, I have to take responsibility in this too, but this is where I want to be. How can I adjust myself to make sure that they can meet me where I'm at?
Speaker 3:Was that whole experience the catalyst for leaving the corporate jobs and deciding to help women with their finances, or what was that?
Speaker 1:catalyst. Yeah, that came later on, after I had my first son, my first child. I was traveling a little bit for work, maybe one week out of the month. I was like, oh man, I just don't want to do this. I'm leaving a newborn baby for a week and my husband was working and typically when you're going to a job, if you're working 40 hours, you're working more than 40 hours and then you have to commute to work and all of that. So maybe it's like 50 plus hours a week, maybe even 60, that we're like we're gonna have to get two nannies or different helpers to help us. But then it's only one week out of the month and it was just kind of confusing to do that on the schedule.
Speaker 1:And I remember being in hotel rooms with the newborn baby at home and like kicking my feet up ordering room service and like talking to my husband and he would be so frantic. He's like, oh, I got this, I'm like you can do it, and hanging up the phone and I had a lot of guilt but I was also like whoa, I got to take a little break. But then after a few months I'm like I just this is where I want to be. So I kind of hung it up with my employer and then I was just getting a lot of phone calls from friends that were like, hey, you left your work, I have a really quick question for you. And then they would ask me this question about either buying a home or investing something with their 401K.
Speaker 1:And then it just was like the floodgates open, I don't know. People were like you're not working, great, here we go, I have some questions for you. So that's really how it started. I was like I'm answering all these questions all the time and a lot of them are the same questions what can I do to turn this into a business? Because I miss working and being involved in this? So that's really how the business started, because I was shocked at how many people didn't know what I perceived to be fundamental information that everybody should know and I'm like you don't know this and that kind of upset me.
Speaker 1:I'm like, how come you don't know this? I'm talking to them more about the resources they had available. I'm like, gosh, like they're busy with their career. Like when would they go and learn this if it's not being kind of fed to them? This is what have to be someone taking up a hobby and doing that and I'm not learning chemistry on the side. So how are they supposed to learn everything about the financial industry in their free time? So that's really how this all came about.
Speaker 3:One thing you mentioned on our previous call with you that made me press by on your book right away was that you were shocked with how many high achieving, high earning women who are really respected in their fields, as you're alluding to, didn't know these basics about finances or investing. So what did you notice about that process, like, was there like shame around it? Were they really curious? Were they feeling like pressure? Were they doing it wrong? Just share with us a little bit about that experience.
Speaker 1:I think it's a combination of all of those things you just said. It was kind of this like a hush-hush where you know when someone kind of was consuming the content that I had, it would be like stay, I don't know. This stuff Especially to, I think, as women, depending on the industry, if you've had to put on this exterior, you know rough or tough aura about you for people to take you seriously. So they're not discounting you because you look young or your voice is a little high pitched or you're a woman, whatever the case is. So then you start to build this and as you go five, six, 10 years into your career, now you believe that about yourself, other people believe that about you. So to put your guard down and say I don't understand how my money works or I don't understand how to invest, that takes a ton of vulnerability, and I think a lot of these women were just like if I show that vulnerability, then the whole house is gonna fall down, and so there was a lot of shame around that too, Like why don't I know this? I am a smart person, I do work hard, I am ambitious. How come? I don't know this.
Speaker 1:So it definitely a combination of all of those things. I think what I love about what I do is it brings out the excitement or kind of hunger for the knowledge, where people are like, oh I'm so great you're talking about this, I do wanna learn more, and just being able to have a place where they can consume that information has been just so rewarding for me. To see people come and they're really like they wanna learn this stuff, so they're really trying to figure out how can they implement this in their own lives. But that's one of the things is, as you're putting your head down, you're working, you're trying to establish yourself, you know your income goes up and then you're doing the same thing. It's like rinse and repeat, and then maybe you're even moving in what direction you want your career to be.
Speaker 1:When is somebody tapping you on the shoulder and going okay, well, as you're going through all these career changes, let's sit down and go through a financial plan. You don't really have that. You might have a 401k at your company, but that's really it might be a little bit of hands off, or maybe they showed you in a webinar one time. So you're just kind of like, ooh, I don't know who to ask. I don't know what to ask. Am I gonna sound stupid? Do I know what questions Should? I already know this stuff. So definitely a combo.
Speaker 3:I love that women came to you and felt safe to come to you and that it was inspirational to you to write a book which I should say is like, so beautifully written. It's entertaining, simple and like, lays out these concepts in a wonderful way. And I'm not just saying that I don't read every book for everyone we meet, but it is a lovely book. Investing is your superpower, right?
Speaker 1:Yes, yeah, thank you. I was like I can't make this dry. I don't wanna make a textbook. I'm like I need a book that women will actually read.
Speaker 3:It was fun, yeah, so.
Speaker 1:I tried to make it as funny as possible.
Speaker 2:So what are some of the common types of questions that the women in your life were coming to you and asking you? Because I imagine that a significant number of our listeners right now are thinking the same thing. Like they have all of these questions probably to your point. We were not taught any of this unless we elected and we were heading down that career path. No one sat us down and said, hey, when you get your first job, you need to know how to contribute to a 401k. Hey, you need to know what a 401k is. Let's just start there. I remember in high school we had one teacher who taught history and then one day a week he taught us how to like write in it check. I think that there's no education for anyone, but especially women. We don't want to admit. I don't want to admit what I don't know around it. So what type of questions were you getting asked that you're like wow, you should really know this and you don't, and I'm going to leave my career to help you.
Speaker 1:I think the first question I typically get is like what should I be doing? What am I supposed to do? Am I doing it right? So kind of this a little bit of anxiety of like I hear you, I hear other people talking about this. I want to do something like what should I be doing? So that's a big one. Am I saving enough? That's a really broad question that people, even if they're trying and they're like, okay, I have this account, I do have my 401k, is this enough? They have no gauge of there's again winging it. They're doing what they think they should be doing on their own. What should I invest in? I get that one a lot. Do I need a financial planner? So those are some of the common questions that I get.
Speaker 2:So, of those, when do you need a financial planner? Do you need a financial planner?
Speaker 1:I would say there's. So there's different kinds of financial planners. A typical investment company will have minimums that you need to meet in order for them to create financial plans, because they're not like attorneys. They don't get paid per hour, they get paid under the assets that they have under management. So there might be a $500,000 minimum. There might be a million dollar minimum. So if you can't meet that, don't get discouraged. There's also fee based planners, where you pay a flat fee and they'll go through a plan with you.
Speaker 1:I teach courses, I work with clients one on one on coaching. So there's different avenues for people to go down. But I would say work with a professional, no matter what. I work with a professional, even though this is my space, because I know I can get really emotional about things, especially when it comes to my own decision making, and I also know what I'm talking about. So I want someone else to give their opinion so we can have a meaningful conversation to say, okay, I am thinking all of the right things, or they could open my eyes to a different opportunity, but just make sure I'm uncovering everything. So I kind of look at it like I've given this analogy before.
Speaker 1:But if you're going on an international trip, right, and you could go. You could buy the books, the travel books. You can go on all the way. You can go on all the websites to look up where you want to go. But if you had a friend go, my best friend lives in Barcelona, you're going there, you just moved there five years ago. I can hook you up with her and she can take you around everywhere.
Speaker 1:Like that's the route I'd want to go, right, like to have a guide to take you through there. Could you do it on your own? Absolutely what will you make some mistakes, probably, and you can learn from them. But I'm kind of like, why make mistakes with your money if you can just partner with someone in the first place to show you how to do it? And it doesn't have to be you know, someone you're relying on all the time, but, like, why not have a professional guide to navigate? What about the tax impact? What about the long term impact? What is this doing for me in the short term? So I would err on the side of having having help with that.
Speaker 3:When Chris and I first sought out a financial planner, we didn't know where to look first. So we talked to a friend who is a financial advisor who directed us how to find one that was a fit for us. What recommendations would you have for where someone might start, based on where they are in life, to find a financial planner?
Speaker 1:I would plug in my book. I'd start with my book, and the reason that I wrote the book is because, when I would get this question a lot, you can send people to different websites of consuming that. But I wrote the book in a way that it's organized and you don't have to read everything in order. If you just want to skip to a part that's specifically about investing, or you want to skip to a part about that's retirement, you can, I think, arming yourself with that information first, so you get more clear on what your questions actually are. I think sometimes, when you're you know, let's say, you're going to the doctor and you're waiting for a specialist and you have to wait six weeks, and then you get in there and then you kind of like they're talking really fast and then you freeze up and you're like, oh shoot, I wrote my questions down, but you're kind of like a hurrying through it and a lot of times you feel it's over and you're like, ah, that was my, that's what I waited for for six weeks.
Speaker 1:I don't feel like I got my questions answered, and I think that happens to, and people are meeting with financial planners because it's the same thing. You don't want to feel dumb or you don't want to feel like I don't know what you're talking about. So I think having reading something ahead of time to know like these are clearly my questions and I want to dig in a little bit deeper, to go a little bit slower. But then after that it depends on if you want to get free education or just read about it. I really like a nerd walletcom.
Speaker 1:I think they have great curated articles based on what you're looking for. If you are looking for a financial planner, you can go to the CFPnet and look for a financial planner in your area that's a certified financial planner. So those are good places to start. And then also talk to a friend. They know a professional. You're not talking to your friend for advice, your friend giving you investment advice, but if they work with a professional that they enjoy, there's a lot of trust that's already built there that you can leverage that for yourself.
Speaker 4:What qualities should folks be looking out for and avoiding when finding a financial planner?
Speaker 1:Just someone that wants to hear your story as a financial planner. They need to know detailed information about your finances. But if you're sitting down across from someone, they're like, okay, how much money do you make, what does your debt look like? And they're going they need that information. They're not being kind of insensitive to that, they need that information.
Speaker 1:However, that doesn't feel good, I would feel, and this is my profession. I would feel so uncomfortable if I just sat down next to someone and they're like how much money do you make? And so I think someone who can connect with you on a level of where you're at and can also help you figure out what your questions are. If you don't know what your questions are, it's like usually I have to say like nine out of 10 times when somebody's asking me a question, their first question is not their real question. They actually just didn't know, because this isn't their field, the right terminology of what question to ask. So we kind of just go deeper and deeper and deeper and then by the third follow up question, I'm like that's the heart of their question. I understand, you know where their minds going. So I think someone that you can really connect with because this has to be somebody that you can trust, and especially if you have an unplanned event in your life, like maybe you have a new baby on the way that you weren't expecting.
Speaker 1:Maybe you have a job change or a big move, that you're moving across state lines. You want someone that you can talk to, that you feel comfortable that they're going to either know the answer or have the resources to find the answer for you. So really it needs to be someone that you enjoy talking to so you can bring up some of these things, especially when it comes to vulnerabilities.
Speaker 3:Yeah, almost like a coaching position, because there are so many emotions associated with money. It's probably a little bit of a superpower that you have your own backstory and feelings towards money, because you can better understand some of the people you work with about.
Speaker 1:Yeah, because even for me, if I make a logical assessment of a financial decision I'm making, and one example is my lease was up on my car and I've only really bought cars before I haven't leased them and so I was pretty inexpensive and I'm like, okay, well, I don't know that I want to actually buy this car, I'll just lease it. And then, when the lease was up, I went to the dealership. They're like okay, we can give you the same car. But no, I'm like, no, I'll just buy this one. I've been driving and they're like well, we'll give you a brand new one and we'll lower your payment by $50 a month. And I was like mm-hmm mm-hmm, mm-hmm.
Speaker 1:Sounds good. And there was a couple of like technology issues with the car that I was driving. So there's a part of me that was like should I buy this or is it going to break, you know, in two weeks? And now I own this car. And I talked to my husband and he's like, yeah, he's like why not? Like if you know, we didn't really, we weren't in love with this, we didn't really want to buy. They're going to lower your payment. It's the same car, you just keep it. And I was like mm-hmm, mm-hmm. And then I was like maybe we can go grab a cup of coffee and come back. And we did. And I was on the way there.
Speaker 1:I'm like I feel really uncomfortable. I'm like I'm feeling very scared and I know this makes sense to do, but I can't do it. And we just talked about it and we talked through and we were like what are the payments? What are we paying now? Why is this making? And I was like this is just because it's a big decision. I'm marrying this car for three years and I'm freaking out. I have to manage my emotions around it and not shy away from making a decision, but also having the ability to work through that. So because I do experience these and this is something like very logically makes sense for me to do, I know how intensely that hit me. I understand how difficult it is for people to do it and not just turn on their logical brain when they're making these decisions.
Speaker 2:That makes a lot of sense and also it's when you're thinking about these decisions and Marla to your point who to work with, like one of the questions we got asked like what type of lifestyle do you want to live? And it's embarrassed to say I want to live a lifestyle where I can order out a significant number of nights a week. I want, when we vacation, to be able to stay in nicer places. I want financial freedom by the age of blah blah blah. So you need somebody that you don't feel shame around what your life goals are.
Speaker 1:Yeah absolutely, because it's possible. I think that's what I really enjoy about Working with money, finances, investing is it's really just a puzzle piece. You just figure out what are the pieces of your puzzle. You know, if it is that convenience of I want to be able to go out, for me it's going to be a lot of international travel so we can see family, show the kids different places. You know so well how do we make all of that work and you're gonna have to. You know, give up a little bit here, do on a little bit over there, but it can work. But if you don't map that out and you're kind of just winging it, then maybe you'll get some things. Maybe you won't, but you can actually create a clear plan to make those happen and we kind of start with the end in mind. So that's how you would start. Here's my wish list. This is what I want. Those are maybe like six different buckets that you have and then, well, what is the dollar amounts tied to that? Well, how do we get there? What should you be saving? What are the investment options? What feels comfortable for investing with you? And then you really want to look at this time, I would say, over the next however many years as a trial period of what it's like to invest. So that way, when you're retired and you're gonna have to turn those investments into income that's gonna last you for the rest of your life, you're not paying attention to it for the first time that you're like I got 30 years under my belt of understanding what's happening in the economy. What does that mean for my money? How do I respond to that? And what do I do from there?
Speaker 1:Because a lot of what you learn to as a financial planner is from your own investing mistakes. You learn and then it's like, okay, well, I've seen this before, I've done this, I made this mistake. Okay, here's what we should be doing. And then you kind of it's like trial and error. Now, when you're retired and you don't have different sources of income coming in, that's not the time you want to be making those mistakes. You want to make those mistakes now and don't be ashamed by them, talk about them, see, like what could I have done differently? What should I have done? What are other people doing? And then, when it comes time for you to do that, you're like, okay, this isn't the first time I've seen the market crash, you know, 25% in the year. Well, here's how I behaved before. This is how I'm gonna behave this time around, and just learning from those experiences, mm-hmm.
Speaker 3:Well, you should start a podcast with each episode titled question that you hear.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 3:For women, for women. Okay, shinabu, if women take one thing away from today when it comes to money, what would you like that to be?
Speaker 1:To really take charge of your financial life by advocating for what you want so kind of pinging backing on what we just said is you know, if you don't take care of it, who's gonna take care of it for you? And you and you have to honestly ask yourself that question. If you are relying on a big inheritance, then that might be unique to your situation, but if you don't have this like blank check that you know is coming to you in the future, like who's gonna do it? And if that's you, then you've got to take charge of it now. So you feel like I got this under control and even if there's 10 steps that you need to take to get it under control, like you can lay those all out.
Speaker 1:It's just, we don't want 25 years, 30 years to go by and then you're going oh, how come nobody told me this? We are telling you right now, that's us right now. So just to take charge of your finances, because I think the stats are like 80% of women, at one point in their lives, are going to be solely responsible for their finances. Whether that's women getting married later in life, spouses passing away earlier, divorce, whatever the case is, the stats are out there that women are going to be really running a lot of the finances, 25 plus years from now.
Speaker 2:That is a large number 80%. Yeah, wow, also hopeful we should be.
Speaker 1:Yes, yeah, I mean yeah, yeah looking at the numbers of women graduating with Degrees or higher degrees versus men, women kind of taking over, and then a lot of it really is From older generations, as women just live longer, so they're they're kind of being tasked with that and I've sat many, many, many women that didn't have a hand in it and their spouses have passed away and they're devastated that they are like I have to learn all of this now and they're still mourning.
Speaker 1:It's a very difficult time. So, as much as you can learn about these things now so you at least feel comfortable asking questions.
Speaker 3:Hmm, yeah, and I'd be curious if maybe you know this if men may feel similar to what you've described with women, but they are Sort of known to be the one to take on the finances and the family and maybe they're feeling like imposter syndrome and similar Struggles with like not knowing something they feel that they should know.
Speaker 1:Totally. I get that all the time when I'm meeting with a couple, or you know the little. Sometimes a woman will be like oh he's, he's doing the investing and he and the guys looking at me like I don't, I'm just, I'm just doing it because she's not doing it, I got making it up.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah, I don't know what I'm doing where I don't know that those conversations without me there.
Speaker 1:So it's kind of working with someone. You're also inviting the opportunity to have these Discussions with your guard down and to be doing that, and I think there's this misconception that, like men know this, but they went to the same school that we did. When did they learn that they did it?
Speaker 3:So I totally agree and be the change for the couple. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Let's wrap up with this last question. What is one product or service that makes your life easier as a working mom?
Speaker 1:definitely house cleaning and Laundry being folded. I think that is a huge one. There's been a couple of weeks where we've had to Schedule things out a little bit later and I'm like, oh, everything's falling apart, like it's very, very necessary. You know, we just don't get as much time to spend with the kids and playing and doing the fun thing. So definitely, definitely that, and I feel a sense of order when things are nice. When they're not, I think everything's in chaos. When it's, it's just, you know, a dirty sock line, now it's not.
Speaker 2:Yeah definitely yes, I agree. I agree. I want to look into laundry folding service.
Speaker 1:Yeah. Well, I asked the woman that comes to clean our house. I was like, hey, if I paid you a little bit of extra, would you mind folding? And she was like I don't care, yeah, I'll do it.
Speaker 1:And she stays a little bit later, yeah, and then she just folds it and leaves it in baskets and then I do it with the kids when they come home. Okay, everybody, we put our stuff away and do it that way and it's just make things so much easier. Otherwise, it's like you get the weeks where you're living out of that clean laundry basket, totally.
Speaker 3:I got a sack.
Speaker 4:I feel like that's such a such a good note to end on, because, erica, I know you talk about this all the time. Your time is money and it's also like, yeah, if I pay someone a little bit more, I freeze up more of my time for like sanity purposes, but also like getting back to doing what you love and what will make me more money. So I felt that yesterday I moved yesterday and my movers I was like wait, can you take this extra thing that I didn't have on the list, but I'll pay you more? And I was like, wow, that just feels so much better you could do. Yeah, I'm not.
Speaker 2:Yeah well, thank you for joining us and making an otherwise terrifying conversation about finances very approachable. We learned a lot and had so much fun with you today.
Speaker 1:Awesome. Thank you so much. I love your podcast. I love that it's for working moms. I think it is a special human to be a working mom. So I feel like, especially if you work at home and you're not necessarily getting, like the water cooler time, this is a really nice place to just hear like, okay, I'm not alone. Other people struggle with the same Thing and it's been great, great meeting you all.
Speaker 2:Oh, likewise, before we let you go, I know our listeners are going to want to learn more from you. Where should we send them?
Speaker 1:You can send them to empoweredplanningcom, and on instagram it's my name, shinabu hindert. I put out a lot of short videos just with like three tips or three key areas, some things like that. That's a kind of quick, quick hits for learning.
Speaker 2:Awesome, all right. Thanks again, shinago, until next time.
Speaker 3:Thank you Thank you, thank you, bye, bye.
Speaker 4:I've been running from nine to five, been biting my tongue for all this time. Won't let anyone cut me short.
Speaker 3:I was thinking this was the way to go and you put up your puppet show. I say cheers to you like no, I'll be no good man.