Emotional Regulation for Stressful Moments

Getting to know yourself means getting to know your nervous system too. Join us as we explore the intricate relationship between physical tension, emotional regulation, and the daily stressors we face as working moms with life coach, Stephanie Rosenfield. 

Between personal experiences and expert strategies, Stephanie points out the crucial aspects of the nervous system, highlighting the sympathetic and parasympathetic branches and their role in handling stress. Trust, it makes sense when you listen!

We also explore co-regulation in parent-child relationships, and the significance of self-care through even the toughest moments. And to get grounded, we walk through a fun orienting technique that you can implement anywhere. 

Enjoy the calm vibes ahead!

KEY POINTS

9:54 Mind-Body Disconnect
14:05 Parenting Frustrations
25:17 Morning Routines
35:50  Self-Reflection
53:11 Role Modeling

LINKS MENTIONED 

Stephanie Rosenfield’s website: https://stephaniercoaching.com/

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/stephanie-rosenfield-81b5159/

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/Stephanie.Rosenfield

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/StephanieRCoaching

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Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:00

reverbalizing some of the things that I had modeled Like okay, I can be flexible today. So when I think about this, it's in the moment and out of the moment. How can I model this? How I'm regulating myself which means being in tune when you're dysregulated and how you're shifting, so that you can teach your kids not only in the moments that they are stressed, but they can see it out of the moment.

Speaker 2: 0:21

Welcome to Working Mom Marrow. Oh fuck, ["Bloom, Boom, Boom"]. Welcome to Working Mom Marrow. Three, two, one.

Speaker 1: 0:35

Welcome to Working Mom Hour. I'm Erica and I'm Madeline. We're working moms, business partners and friends with kids at different ages and stages. We know moms tend to get more done in an hour than the average in an.

Speaker 2: 0:47

yet often misunderstood and underappreciated in the workforce.

Speaker 1: 0:50

We are here to shine a light on the working mom experience of ourselves and others stuff into and advocate for the super power.

Speaker 3: 0:57

We are not experts.

Speaker 4: 0:59

Which means we sound a little cool and are still there. Kids, clients and girls Join us. She's on a mission to help other moms enjoy motherhood and feel empowered in their lives, and she's here to share her insights, experiences and the dual side of the story. I'm Madeline. I'm the director of my teaching on the facial and shoulder experience, so I'm going to let you know that you've died in a personality conversation with Stephanie.

Speaker 2: 1:23

Perfect, All right. On today's episode of Working Mom Hour, we welcome nervous system practitioner, speech and language pathologist and expert in early childhood development, Stephanie Rosenfield. Stephanie has been on a transformative journey from feeling overwhelmed and anxious in motherhood to finding joy, calm and purpose, which may sound a little familiar, no.

Speaker 4: 1:49

Yes, she's on a mission to help other moms enjoy motherhood and feel empowered in their lives, and she's here to share her insights, experiences and the tools that have changed her life. Stephanie's advice has been featured on the Today Show Pop Sugar and Scary Mommy. So, without further ado, let's dive into this valuable conversation with Stephanie.

Speaker 2: 2:20

Stephanie, welcome to Working Mom Hour.

Speaker 1: 2:23

Thank you so much for having me. I'm so excited to be here.

Speaker 2: 2:25

We are ready for this conversation. So you are an expert in understanding the nervous system, which is fascinating, Such a huge component of parenting, and I'm so glad we're talking about it. Let's start with the basics, right. So what is the nervous system and how is it regulated?

Speaker 1: 2:46

So, essentially, I'm going to try to explain this in terms that aren't super scientific, that are relatable to our conversation today.

Speaker 1: 2:53

So, essentially, I think of our nervous system as our body's wiring. It's our electrical wiring and essentially our nervous system transmits messages from our body to our brain. And I'll explain the different parts of the nervous system. If you think of a family tree that has, like the name at the top, my last name, rosenfield, your last name we can put the top as the nervous system and then under that we have two parts of the nervous system, which is the central nervous system, which is the center part of our body, our brain and our spinal cord, and then the peripheral nervous system, which is the periphery, our organs and our muscle tissue. Within the peripheral nervous system, two little bit more, two more branches, we have the somatic, which is our on-purpose movements, and the autonomic, which is automatic movements, bladder, pupil contraction, all of the things are digestion that our body does automatically. I'm going to be spending a lot of time talking about the autonomic system, and I'll tell you why in a moment, within the autonomic nervous system, if you're sticking with me.

Speaker 1: 3:57

So far, we're here Two more branches, two more branches, which is the sympathetic and the parasympathetic nervous system. And you can think of the sympathetic as your fight or flight if you've heard of that before your get-up-and-go, your arousal, and the parasympathetic as rest and digest, or parasympathetic as freeze or a little bit, I would say, depressed, like down. I'll give you a story to help relate why we're talking about this today. I had a client who came to me and this may sound familiar in your home.

Speaker 1: 4:28

It happened in my home. She talked about she was picking her two kids up from after school. She had just gotten done a busy day of work. She was picking her kids up, rushing home to get dinner. Kids bathed, everyone down for bed by 7.30. She gets home and her younger one starts screaming mommy, pick me up. While she's trying to get the burgers on the grill and everything on the table, her older one is melting that she's hungry and going into the pantry for a snack and in the background the TV's flaring. All this mom wanted to do was get dinner on the table to get the night going In this moment. Can you relate?

Speaker 1: 5:03

to that type of situation.

Speaker 2: 5:04

Last night. Keep going.

Speaker 4: 5:07

I'm sweating.

Speaker 1: 5:09

So literally, you're sweating. So in that moment when I talk about that for you guys, physically what's happening? You're sweating, what else?

Speaker 4: 5:18

Breathing heavier. I feel like racing thoughts.

Speaker 2: 5:22

I'm holding my breath. Literally, I hold it in my stomach. I'm holding my breath.

Speaker 1: 5:26

Yeah. So essentially, in that moment, what's happening is your autonomic nervous system, your sympathetic nervous system, is being activated. You're being aroused like that high anxiety, the racing thoughts, the on the defense, and this is because your body is perceiving a threat and sending the message to your brain like danger. And this is meant to work for us, our nervous system, right. If there is a lion chasing us, we want to run. If someone's about to swerve into us on the highway, we want to move. So essentially, this is supposed to be activated, but it's being overly activated by stressful situations that we're all dealing with on the day to day with our kids and family. So that's a brief description of the nervous system and why we're talking about it today.

Speaker 4: 6:15

Now, what are the effects of it being overly activated, like what's happening to society?

Speaker 1: 6:23

That's a really great question, so you can think about it. In that moment this mom came to me and she's like I'm yelling, I'm threatening, I'm blaming, I'm acting in ways that I don't want to react. It's not the model that I want to be to my kids. I am interpreting my kids as more difficult. It's just creating so much stress, unease and stress. And then afterwards she relayed. I just feel so guilty. I check out on my phone and I scroll and that's like the low parasympathetic being activated, right that like shut down. She didn't want to engage and play with her kids on the floor after dinner because she was feeling so guilty about what happened. So I think, on a smaller scale, the effects are things that you can see happening in your homes, in your relationships.

Speaker 4: 7:09

Like we're not able to control our emotions and like operate in the way we want to operate, because this is just like happening in our bodies and it's like kind of taking over. Is that right?

Speaker 1: 7:21

Yeah, and I can't go into how the nervous system is regulated or what that even means. So a regulated nervous system is essentially feeling safe, in control, the ability to problem solve. So I'm presented with this stressful situation, but my heart is at a normal rate, my jaw isn't clenched, I don't feel that heat rise, I'm in control. And I like to differentiate this from calm, because I think there's a lot of messaging out there like maybe you should be like calm and controlled.

Speaker 1: 7:53

It's not about being Zen master over here, having no care in the world, however. It's about being able to approach the situation in a way that you feel good about afterwards, that you have control over. So regulated essentially means, if you look at the sympathetic and the parasympathetic I'm putting my hands up here this middle part a window of tolerance where you're feeling connected and safe, you can engage, you can listen, and so how I work with clients and what we try to do is increase that window so that you can flexibly move. Because, again, the goal isn't to always be in that window of regulated that's not realistic. I'm not no one I know is it's to be able to flexibly move throughout the sympathetic, parasympathetic, into that window of tolerance. More ease with more ease, if that makes sense.

Speaker 4: 8:47

I have so many questions and I know we're going to get into a lot of this. I have a lot of questions about how we expand that and how we can model this and strategies and how we can help our kids and all of that. Who is most my guess is women maybe most susceptible to this being an overdrive when it comes to emotional regulation. Is that the case and why might that be? Why do women struggle to feel in our bodies? We had a guest on, maybe last season who was lovely. Her name was Lizzie Langston and I remember this quote. She said women have been disembodied for so long that it's like hard to feel in our bodies.

Speaker 1: 9:35

I love that idea and honestly I think it's men and women.

Speaker 1: 9:38

We're also different but, I, think everyone experiences it and they look different and maybe some people may be more prone to the shutdown versus the reactivity. But I think women in particular we were never taught, we were never told that we had a body. I know for myself, before I started this and so many of my clients and friends, is that we're walking around with this, just thinking we're a brain constantly thinking, constantly trying to execute, get things done that we don't even realize that we have a body or that there are things happening within our body that are important. It's like, oh, I have a stomach ache, let me take some medicine. It's more so. How can I fix this ease? There's something wrong, versus maybe it's giving me information and telling me something.

Speaker 1: 10:24

So when I start with clients, one of the first things that I do with them is have them identify the sensations and what they're feeling in their body in these stressful moments, because we can't change how we're going to react or start to regulate if we don't recognize that we're even feeling something. So I have them track literally on a piece of paper, what do you notice in the morning when you wake up? What happens in your body or in your jaw Right before, in that situation with those kids, just like you described to me. What's happening? I feel surprising, I'm clenching, and it's different for everybody. So once we can recognize, or even and it takes practice, I have people who are like I don't even know, like what does that mean? I feel something, like that's, I don't feel anything. So the first step is really identifying what my feeling and this is years and years of most of us, especially women, ignoring or not even noticing that we are feeling something.

Speaker 1: 11:26

Do you like the book? The Body Keeps the Score? Love that book? I think I was with one of my first reads when I was starting to get into this a couple years ago. Oh, he's wonderful.

Speaker 4: 11:36

You mentioned speaking of books. Being a fan also of the whole brain child, which we've also heard about, and I know it talks about how kids' brains are wired and how they mature, or how kids' brains mature, would you be willing to give us an overview of what's happening in our kids' brains and why it can be a challenge to parents through, like when they're feeling dysregulated?

Speaker 1: 12:00

Yes, I love speaking about Dan Siegel and his work and essentially, for those of you who aren't familiar, he's a child psychologist or psychiatrist who really talks about the application of neuroscience to help parents promote social and emotional development with their kids. And I think that this is so important to understand because unless we understand how our kids' brains develop, it's really hard to parent them, because we're over here, assuming they're X years old. They shouldn't be doing Y, right, he's in third grade. He shouldn't be melting down or refusing to go to baseball. They're this age. So one of the things I work with parents about and I love this question is once we can understand what's supposed to be happening, we can have more compassion and understanding, which then allows us to parent more in a way that we're aligned with. So essentially, he talks about the upstairs brain and the downstairs brain. And the upstairs brain is that cortex, the thinking. We can think about that as my sensory, my nervous system overview, like the central nervous system, your brain, and this is where we can problem solve, we can think rationally, we're really in control. And he calls the more impulsive brain the downstairs brain. At birth, the downstairs brain is what is intact Our baby, the crying because they're hungry. The reactionary brain and essentially throughout their childhood up until their 25, the upstairs brain is under construction. It is very vulnerable the upstairs brain to being hijacked by this impulsive brain. We can think about us in a situation where, in that situation with my client, where she came home from dinner and she was being hijacked by her impulsive brain too. So for our kids it's very likely. So the idea that they should be able to think rationally or be in control of their emotional responses or make good choices isn't a realistic expectation. So while this can be really frustrating for parents, right, why can't they just wait for dinner? All these things that can be really frustrating for parents, it's very normal. And it doesn't mean that there's anything wrong with them, or you right, a lot of us have the thoughts what am I doing wrong here? There's something wrong with them. So just understanding what's happening can be really helpful.

Speaker 1: 14:19

And I can give you another example of a client. One of my clients has a daughter who's in second grade and she. It was Sunday and it was time to go to gymnastics, and our daughter loves gymnastics. This particular Sunday she was refusing to go to gymnastics. She was getting really upset about it. My client, you know she would normally do is do threaten, but you love gymnastics, try to convince. Hey, if you get in the car I'll give you some gummies.

Speaker 1: 14:45

And she was trying to describe a lot of these things and it wasn't working. In fact it was making her daughter more upset. So we got on the call and we really talked about this experience, her brain or the fact that her rational brain is offline, so trying to approach it rationally won't work. And just being able to sit with her through the experience and I can go into co-regulation in a little bit to be able to sit with her in this experience, that mom feeling in her window of tolerance like this, is okay, I can manage this, nothing has gone wrong. And what she noticed was that her daughter was able to move through it a lot quicker because the mom was modeling and she was accepting it and she wasn't trying to fight it and she had the understanding of the neuroscience behind what was going on. So that's my quick overview of Dan Siegel.

Speaker 2: 15:35

It's a great book. I remember reading it early on in my parenting. We'll link it in the show notes because it really is an interesting book and I like the upstairs it just also very much brings it to a level that you can understand the upstairs brain and the downstairs brain. I have a quick question because this is just a topic that we continue to have sort of thread through a lot of our conversations around technologies impact on our kiddos and how, potentially as we're talking about the upstairs brain still forming and the downstairs brain hijacking and really taking over the desire to continue with technology and games and video games and social media how are you noticing in your work technology impacting our kiddos nervous systems, if it is at all?

Speaker 1: 16:29

This is such a fabulous question and one of the I'm constantly educating myself around too. Most of my clients are parents with younger kids, so I would say fifth or sixth grade or younger, so they're really just dipping their toe into this experience of figuring out what is best for me and my family. How can I say no to because we don't want to have the phone or social media? How can I say no to that? So with my clients, I haven't really had the experience yet because they're younger of that.

Speaker 1: 17:00

But what I do know from reading and again, I'm constantly educating myself on this is that, yes, our kids are reacting from their impulsive brain most often. So if they are on social media, if they are on TikTok or Instagram, or they are seeing something or posting something or responding to something, that it is having this impact because of how their brain is developing. And I think that there is more and more research coming out now about how there is no positive, there is no positive effect. I think I read somewhere too even for us as adults, even if you're following puppy accounts, solely puppy accounts you're not getting off feeling better. You could be really liking the content, but you're still getting off.

Speaker 4: 17:39

Yeah.

Speaker 1: 17:41

Yeah.

Speaker 4: 17:41

Like that was not a good use of time or energy.

Speaker 1: 17:44

Yeah, yeah, what I recommend to the parents that I'm working with right now is getting together with the stakeholders or partner, whoever it is, and deciding what do we think is a family, what's best for us, what are we comfortable saying yes to or no to, or what's our in-between, and how can we communicate that in an age-appropriate way to our kids, and why?

Speaker 4: 18:04

Good advice. I did have a quick question. I was in a classroom one of my daughter's classrooms yesterday and I noticed just how frequently the teacher was redirecting and the way in which she was redirecting and I think in general it was fine, but it was a lot of redirection, a lot of the day or the hour I was there and not in the gentlest of ways, and so I was curious. I don't know if you have knowledge about this, but are there ways we should redirect so as not to flip on A switch in the kids' brains? Is it just like modeling? I think a lot of times redirecting in a classroom setting, you're trying to flip on a switch, get some motivation to listen or do the thing or stop doing the thing or whatever you need them to snap into attention. But is that problematic for our kids that that's happening every day? Are they getting numb to the direction? Do you have any general thoughts on that?

Speaker 1: 19:20

That's a really great question. It shows such a level of awareness around how other people are speaking to our kids and how they are trying to motivate them. I noticed this too when I go into volunteer just the different ways that you have to think about it. The school system, the public school system in particular, was created many, many, many years ago when our kids I think around the Industrial Revolution, when our kids were going to school to then be working factories.

Speaker 4: 19:45

Right.

Speaker 1: 19:46

And it hasn't really, like softwares haven't really shifted that much since in terms of that, Right, so it's a system that I like to believe is doing the best that they can and has, you know, depending on a lot of teacher development, and teachers are constantly trying to learn the best ways to interact with our kids. I think that's a tricky question. I would ask you what did you notice, Like what kind of redirection? What was the tone? What was the direction? What was she saying?

Speaker 4: 20:15

Like. Again, I just want to reiterate that I thought this teacher was doing a great job with classroom management. I do think there's like sort of an old school air towards like guilt and shame, a little bit Like I've been telling you pick up that pencil, like you know, just sort of like that tight-rove vibe. So yeah, that's what I witnessed.

Speaker 1: 20:36

What I would say, or what I would you know? Again, I'm not quite sure the effect on the nervous system, I'm not quite sure the effect of that, but I do know I used to be a speech therapist. So, with a background in like childhood development, a way to get our kids to listen is much like the way to get us to listen. You can imagine, let's say you like to use this example you're watching a season finale of a show on Netflix or something and you're really into it and your husband or partner, whoever's speaking to you from behind, saying something and you're really into this show. You can't really split your attention. And then all of a sudden, this person comes up to you and was like I told you it's time to get like very harshly, like whoa, and all you were doing was like paying attention to something else. So right.

Speaker 1: 21:22

So I like to ask clients in that situation. Okay, imagine how would you like your partner to approach you in that situation. What would you like them to say? How would you like them to act? There are nonverbal cues. Maybe some may like touch you on the shoulder, make eye contact, use a gentle tone, the expression on their face, all the nonverbal. Hey, I know you're really into the show. I told my mom we'd be there at 3.30,.

Speaker 4: 21:46

Like let's, how can we eat something like that Like help them feel seen, join them in whatever they're doing for a second and then redirect.

Speaker 1: 21:54

Again, I can imagine it can enlist some like I'm doing this wrong, I'm being singled out, you know, it's like those. And again, I have a client whose teacher uses this like behavioral chart and the kids can see if they're in red or green or yellow and in front of everyone. And I'm like, oh, like all these kids can see it. And again, so I would just say, being able to think about how can we get our kids to listen in a different way, in a way that we as adults and humans would want to be spoken to also.

Speaker 2: 22:26

And I think we know more now your triggering memories of like getting your name written on the board. It was a shame tactic when we were younger with teachers and I think sometimes the older teachers stick with that tactic. We've had some great teachers with our kiddos. My kiddos both have ADHD. My son in particular will sort of go off into his own world, which we call his like imagination land, and his teachers have been really great. We've just mentioned like hey, if you notice he's not with you, a little tap on the shoulder. Like hey, how are you doing? You know, like just very gentle, he's a touch kid and they have tools in the classroom to help keep their attention. But I also think it's difficult sometimes. I mean, I remember my dad, like if we hit a certain decibel of play we could have been laughing, my sisters and I, and it was like nails on a top board.

Speaker 4: 23:20

Shut him down for my dad?

Speaker 2: 23:22

Yeah, exactly, and so we would joke around that we couldn't have fun around him because he could hand out the noise. The noise, yeah, exactly, I can relate to that. But I feel like dysregulation is that the right word for it Is a little contagious right. So like if you're in a classroom of kiddos and the teachers appear, the kids are going to match the teacher's energy and vibe and same within the household. So I'm also curious, stephanie you mentioned, is it true we share a nervous system with our kiddos?

Speaker 1: 24:02

Yeah, I think that's a really great question. I would say we don't necessarily share, but we do co-regulate. Like you said about that teacher, we mirror. As humans, we play off each other. So how someone around us feels or behaves affects us. You could imagine that mom from the beginning of my story. Her kids' behavior affected her and she started to mirror it when she responded. So co-regulation as parents, we've been doing it without even knowing that we do it. You can think your baby cries and you meet their needs with do I change your diaper? How can I soothe you? Do I give you food? So essentially, co-regulation is helping another person regulate their system. So that mom that I explained the gymnastic example too, what she was doing was co-regulating that second time when she noticed, ok, my calming presence, me being even will actually help her even out her system. And there is neuroscience behind this. It's called the mirror neurons and we mirror it through. Co-regulation is how we teach self-regulation. So I'm going to use models modeling the regulation and I would say I have an example of this in my own life.

Speaker 1: 25:17

Every morning I love to eat eggs. It's like my thing. It gets me off to a good day when I don't have my eggs. It's like something doesn't you know, it's not going good. So one morning I opened the fridge and noticed there were no egg left. In fact, I think my husband had eaten the last egg.

Speaker 1: 25:31

My two boys, who are six and a half and three and a half, are sitting there and I recognize, because I've been doing this for a while, like this is a really good moment to like talk through out loud what I'm experiencing, because it wasn't good, yeah, and right out of that again, it's something so silly and so simple. But it like was very like it's my morning. So I was like, oh, that's so frustrating. Like there are no eggs left, I really wish that there were some eggs. I'm going to take a deep breath and try to be flexible here.

Speaker 1: 25:59

Again, I was just like verbalizing myself out loud, modeling how I was regulating from like a frustration to like okay. Then the moment, they didn't really say anything. But I noticed like I think it was a week after where we didn't have pancakes in my older moment at pancakes and I heard him Reverbalizing some of the things that I had modeled like OK, I can be flexible today. So when I think about this, it's in the moment and out of the moment. How can I model this? How I'm regulating myself which means being in tune when you're dysregulated and how you're shifting, so that you can teach your kids not only in the moments that they are stressed, but they can see it out of the moment?

Speaker 2: 26:38

So how can we model emotional regulation for our kids? You just gave an example, and I'm thinking about all of the parents who grew up in a generation where, quite frankly, they got hit if they weren't behaving, or yelling was a thing, threatening right. So for the parents who were never modeled themselves how to regulate, what are the steps we can take to model emotional regulation for our kids?

Speaker 1: 27:08

Yeah, this is such a good question. Any parent who wants to start this journey. I just give you so much love and I like acolyte acolytes whatever it is.

Speaker 1: 27:18

That's so incredible that you are noticing that this is something that you want, after just being modeled and that being your only experience. I grew up in a similar situation, where this was not modeled for me. But before you can model it and be that for your kids, you have to start the journey yourself. It has to be you doing it for you to then be able to embody it and use it in situations like I just mentioned. So the first thing that I would recommend to somebody starting this journey is to take stock of a day. Let's go through a day, put your right down, sort of what I said at the beginning.

Speaker 1: 28:05

Where am I noticing I am reacting in ways that I don't want. Mostly, is it during breakfast? Is it during school pickup? Is it when I get an email from my boss? Is it when someone cuts me off? What are those times of day? And then, really, what am I feeling? Where am I feeling it and what is the emotion? This, again, it sounds simple or like why would I even need to do this? But it really is. Step one noticing I am feeling something and something is happening in my body. So someone cut me off. I feel this rising, my jaw clenching. I'm angry. So where am I feeling it? And what's the emotion?

Speaker 4: 28:50

It's a good exercise, and then how do you address it?

Speaker 1: 28:54

That is. I would say that is the first step and then the addressing it. I have like a four step process that I bring clients through. And the first step is what I call freeze. I don't know if you've ever watched a movie Ferris Bueller's Day Off where he talks to the camera and everything around him freezes. I say you're in this stressful moment, freeze, ferris Bueller. Everything around you can keep happening, you freeze. The second step is what I just said feel. What am I feeling, where am I feeling it? And again, in a stressful moment, this baby more heightened or harder than oh, I'm just driving through my day or I got an email from a boss because there's other people involved, right?

Speaker 1: 29:31

Step number three is what I like to say is diffuse. This is where you try to in the moment. Move to that window of tolerance, move towards that. I can handle this. And the first part is say something different to yourself.

Speaker 1: 29:46

A lot of times we're having those racing thoughts of this is so dysfunctional. No one listens to me, I have to do everything. Something's going wrong here. I can cope with this, I can figure this out, it's going to be okay. I know, based on child development, which is why I went through the dance. He goes up. This can be normal.

Speaker 1: 30:04

Then some body somatic experiencing Peter Levine he is a master. He came up with somatic experiencing. This will be different for everyone. If I suggest something here and you try it and it doesn't work, please try something else. I don't want anyone to think this is prescriptive or these are the only ways.

Speaker 1: 30:25

In that moment your body has a lot of energy. We want to try to maybe expand the energy that isn't reacting or doing that thing that you don't want to do. One of the things that you can do physically is clenching and unclenching your fists, like clenching really hard and unclenching. Something else you can do is a wall pushup, like you're pushing against the wall. The fourth step we have the diffuse is decide what do I need here which can go along with some of those physical exercises. If you have kids who are older, mommy's just going to take a moment. I need a minute to myself. Then you can again go and you can do the wall pushups. You can clench and unclench. You can play some music Again. Music has a nice effect for the sensory system. You can watch something funny or laugh.

Speaker 1: 31:17

You may be thinking these things aren't realistic. It's a stressful moment, but what we're doing here is we want our kids to be able to be in the face of a stressful situation and be able to manage it and shift their responses. That's the start, the blueprint of how we can do it. A lot of my clients what they'll do is be like, okay, seth, I froze, I felt, and then I sort of what do I do now? Decide, I don't know how I want to do. Do I want to speak to them in a different way? How do I want to approach this? That is normal. Again, we're not going to listen to this podcast and implement all this and be like there, I'm regulated, I have my body's regulated now.

Speaker 1: 32:00

This is an ongoing process and a lot of times can start with out of the moment. I can bring one of you through something that I call orienting, if you would like which is another nice thing to do not in the moment, let's do it. Peter Levine, again, this is Peter Levine's work and I'm going to do something that's called orienting, and this really helps bring you to the present moment. Again, you may not do this in a situation that I described earlier with your kids, but if you're sitting down before to do work or if you've just woken up, so okay, who's going to do it? Which one of you? Marla, okay.

Speaker 3: 32:41

Oh, my God Okay.

Speaker 1: 32:43

I don't know if I'm ready to do it, Marla, okay. So I want you to put your feet on the ground, flat on the ground. I want you to move your head and take a look around your room with some curiosity. And what do you notice as you're doing that?

Speaker 3: 32:59

Do you want me to go through the items, or Well, what are your eyes drawn to? Probably my throw pillows which are out of order, my plant which needs to be watered, Some Trader Joe's cookies lots of stuff.

Speaker 1: 33:19

So, as you're looking around you with curiosity and noticing those things, are your eyes drawn to anything that is pleasant? I have a window right in front of me and my eyes are drawn to the trees outside. How about you? Is there anything in your environment that you're drawn to? Yeah, I feel like.

Speaker 3: 33:37

I have a lot of bright colors around the room and I also have windows over there, so I am always staring at them.

Speaker 1: 33:43

So, as you're looking out the window, your eyes are drawn to that. What are you noticing?

Speaker 3: 33:47

I can see my neighbor's Halloween decorations. I can see a tree. I can see a like a cable wire.

Speaker 1: 33:58

And just take a second and focus on those things outside your window and let your eyes find a focal point. Okay, what's happening in your body, as you're noticing?

Speaker 3: 34:09

My feet came off the ground actually, yeah, and I feel like I'm actually tensing more.

Speaker 1: 34:15

Yeah well, that's interesting, right, You're tensing more. What part of your body is tensing more? My knees are locking.

Speaker 3: 34:20

Okay, and hands are a little sweaty.

Speaker 1: 34:25

Well, it's just really interesting right To notice that, and it could be for many reasons. Maybe you're being put on the spot. Maybe right like this is you've never done this before. So I don't know if, mads and Erica, if you guys were doing this while Marla was doing it, were you. Did you notice similar things? Did you notice something different?

Speaker 4: 34:45

I felt a little calmer, like the eye just felt like a little bit of unclenching. I don't know what like the hope was for the exercise, but maybe like a focus was useful for my brain.

Speaker 1: 34:58

How about you, Erica.

Speaker 2: 35:00

I noticed that as my eyes were focusing, my head was feeling a little heavier, like almost like I needed to hold it up, but maybe my brain can't do two things at the same time.

Speaker 1: 35:13

Yeah. So there is no like a right. And again, this is an experience that is so personal for everyone and it's so interesting, erica, what I would have you do if you try this again next time and your head feels heavy. Does it still feel heavy? No, I would have you put your head in your hands and your heel, the heels of your hands, in your eye to support it and then see what happens. So orienting is essentially helping you regain some presence in the moment, and maybe the hope is for it to feel a little bit unclenched or a little bit more, which is why, maybe doing this on your own, without the Without being on the spot, Marla.

Speaker 1: 35:51

Recording for a podcast. Right now, I would just say and again it's so personal maybe not. However, I have plans to do this as I'm driving right Just noticing the trees, looking around. I do this when I wake up before I pick up my phone and again, it's just a small practice to bring you to the present moment, and when I'm focusing outside, it's the trees and the green and I see it swaying, and for me, it brings this openness, so you can play around with it and try to figure out how does this work. For me and anyone listening also, this is called orienting and it's a way just to bring you to the present moment.

Speaker 2: 36:30

So is that something you can do, that, whether you're in a tense moment or not, in a tense moment?

Speaker 1: 36:36

Right, yes, and I would start not in a tense moment. Ok, got it. It's always harder to access, right? So that's why when I talk about the regulation, and how am I feeling, right, when I wake up, how am I feeling in, not these intense moments, just so I can start to figure out how it should feel.

Speaker 2: 36:54

when you're in the moment, you can sort of tap back to that relaxation that you felt. Ok, are there other exercises? Because this was a question I've been sitting on, since we were talking about sort of expanding that middle area, right that building that resilience, so that when you're in a tense moment your body sort of remembers what it feels like and it's not as hard to get there for you. Are there other exercises like meditation, or do you give other sort of prescriptions around building that resilience so that when you're in the moment maybe not necessarily it's easier to get there, but you get there quicker. You have a plan.

Speaker 1: 37:36

Exactly, yes, I do. And again, a lot of these are really highly personal. So if I'm speaking about something here that doesn't work for you, that is OK. There are so many different things that can work for you. So one of the things that I also do is I talk about in the moment and out of the moment strategies. If there is a situation that is you're always reacting at, every time I come home and I see this messy living room, it's just like I react, right. We talk about, ok, out of the moment, what is a different way that I can approach or think about the situation? How can I take control here? Is it the understanding of and again, it could be so many different things. It could be the mindset shift of I have a home with kids and my home is well loved.

Speaker 1: 38:17

This is one of the things that one of my clients uses, and before she goes to bed at night, she used to clean everything and she noticed what she wasn't enjoying herself at all. She wasn't reading, she wasn't watching a show with her partner, she wasn't doing any of the things that she wanted to be doing. And we talked about what is your enough for going upstairs and recognizing right, because if she cleaned at 8.05, the next day was going to look the exact same way. So she said what is enough is that I clean the sink. The sink is empty and what's on the floor, it will be fine. One day I will look back and there'll be no kids in the house and I'll recognize it was a house well loved. So I talk about out of the moment. I'm having a conversation with a client and she's regulated, she is OK, we're having a conversation so she can access these different thoughts or narratives, whereas in the moment she is so activated that those thoughts if someone said to her, hey, don't worry, one day you'll look back, she'd be like no, this is really triggering for me. So I talk about out the moment. What are these situations and how can I look at it a little bit differently. When we talk about in the moment, it's the recognition of that diffusing. It's like what do I need right now? Do I need to leave the room? Do I need to? And the idea is being a detective. During this, I'll have clients who I tried this and it didn't work, so I'm not going to try it again. Well, this is it. Let's be a detective. What did work what didn't work, instead of saying I'm going to do this forever, I'm never doing it again.

Speaker 1: 39:52

Another example I had another client who she worked full time and on the weekend she thought I have to be with my kids all the time. I'm not with them during the week as much I need to be with them. That's what a good mom does. I'm not with them, but she was noticing that she was not showing up as the mom that she wanted. She was reacting, she was going to soccer practice and getting annoyed and she wasn't having that quality time with them. So we talked about how about this Saturday? You just, you know you stay home for those two hours, just during soccer practice? She's like I can't do that. It just gives me so much anxiety, I can't do it. Let's just be a detective. This one Saturday you'll try it and we'll just see what happens. This does not have to be your new normal. She tried it and afterward she was oh my gosh. They came home and I was so much more connected. I was such a better mom because I had that time to myself to do what I wanted.

Speaker 3: 40:46

Yeah, I love that. I feel like here you're talking too about how before it was more so the situation that was causing the tension. But sometimes our thoughts can cause the tension and I think that's a really important distinction to make. I am someone with like a ton of anxiety. I grew up with a brother who was on the spectrum, so he was never, and still is not, emotionally regulated Like it's, you know, high size, low, low, low, and as a result of that I think anxiety is also hereditary in my family.

Speaker 3: 41:20

But I now in my adulthood, even though I'm not around that all the time I'm finding I clench everything, literally. My dentist told me I'm clenching my jaw too much and I was like what, what am I supposed to do about that? So the long way of saying I feel like a lot of this is what you're, the advice you're giving is starting with the body first and then working backwards, so I hold my tension in, like my fists and my jaw. Are there any other points that we should be aware of where there's like that, those high, intense clenching that you might not even realize?

Speaker 1: 41:56

you're doing it. That's such a good question. And, Marla, I just want to really emphasize yes, a huge part of I pair the body with the mindset. So a huge part of what I do out at the moment, again when people are regulated, is work on. Let's talk about what's happening here, let's shift the narrative how else can we think about this? But again, the other huge part of that is the body. So both really go hand in hand. To me, Some of these shifts that we really want to make. So I love that you're noticing where you are clenching and you mentioned do you feel any of that right now? Do you feel any clenching anywhere in particular right now?

Speaker 3: 42:30

I'm feeling decently relaxed right now because I love podcasting but still jaw Like I can feel there, and then what I was saying before during the orienting exercises, like my knees locking, that type of thing. So yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1: 42:47

If you were my client and we weren't on a podcast that had a time, I would bring you more through that. So, even noticing with the jaw offering, you could put your shoulders on the table, offering your jaw some support and just noticing what happens without the purpose. And again, I don't have a preconceived notion here that it should feel better or worse. We just want to notice like what happens.

Speaker 3: 43:11

It kind of shifts it back into other areas. Yeah, what area? My hands. Okay, what do you notice in your hands? It's just like taking the burden off or I don't know, like taking the weight off a little bit?

Speaker 1: 43:24

Is there an impulse associated with it, like if we weren't on a podcast right now or you could do anything that you wanted to do?

Speaker 3: 43:33

I just want to take my hands off, I don't know why. Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1: 43:35

Yeah, yeah, you could take them off. Okay, and what happens? What do you notice when you take them off?

Speaker 3: 43:41

It feels lighter yeah.

Speaker 2: 43:43

Interesting yeah.

Speaker 3: 43:45

Like I'm failing all of these tests. You are not.

Speaker 1: 43:48

You are not. There's no winning and failing.

Speaker 3: 43:51

That's the perception of me, where I'm like I gotta do this therapy exercise perfectly.

Speaker 4: 43:56

I feel like the goal is feeling right.

Speaker 1: 44:00

It's just feeling. There's no like oh, I should feel better. And again, that's not the way that we want to approach this at all. One of the things I would also recommend to you is noticing when you're feeling some of this tension. For me it comes in my chest and like it moves up is what is the impulse here? What is the impulse if I again could do anything? And is it crying? Is it screaming? Is it having a tantrum?

Speaker 1: 44:26

And again, this is like sort of going into knowing, like taking a second and recognizing. Is it throwing things? Like what is that impulse? And being able to visualize again with support, supporting your body with a hand you can see my hand on my chest. Can I visualize myself completing that impulse? So I like that crying or that, whatever that is, and then noticing how your body feels after, because again we have this energy and a lot of us are in front of our computers. We're not expelling, you know, make the work and help, but like we're not expelling the energy in ways that 30, 40 years ago you would have. Yeah, you know that we were.

Speaker 4: 45:09

I admit my fantasy in that moment, like what I want to do. Have you heard of those retreats where you go into a cave for two or three days? It's dark. You have no light.

Speaker 2: 45:24

That seems like a nightmare to me. They're called darkness retreats.

Speaker 4: 45:27

Yes, and I am on the waiting list of like 900, which my husband laughs. He's like you can go and do a cave, like you don't need to pay to go into a cave. I'm like no, I do. They bring me three meals. They make sure I'm safe.

Speaker 2: 45:45

She really just wants to be taken care of in a dark room with no one around her. Yes, that's exactly it.

Speaker 4: 45:53

So in those moments I want to crawl into the cave, and that is like my emotional regulation desire.

Speaker 1: 46:00

Wait. So I love that. So what I want you to do the next time is to support your body. Where you're feeling that tenseness or whatever that is, write your stomach, if it's your stomach, putting your hands on your stomach, and to visualize that the cave. To visualize the cave, the darkness, if there's anyone there with you, if there's a blanket, if you're by yourself, to visualize it and notice if anything shifts for you. Or I don't know if you have been to an infrared sauna or a sauna blanket. Yeah, you have one of those. Just sold it. But yes, I do have access to a sauna.

Speaker 1: 46:38

Even your need is going into the infrared sauna, or even under a blanket.

Speaker 4: 46:43

Yeah, just being in darkness, in my closet with the walls around me.

Speaker 1: 46:47

Yes, so first visualizing it in that moment and seeing what happens, and then noticing. Do I just need five minutes in the closet with my eyes, yes, and letting yourself do it. A lot of us are. I'm busy, I have to email, I don't have time for this but again, being the detective and noticing, if I try it this one time, do I notice a physical shift? What do I notice? I love that and I think until this conversation.

Speaker 4: 47:12

I didn't realize, but I think I've been pursuing elements of that. So I have the earplugs that I just re-bought last week. They're called loop-engage earplugs. Where you're still with your family you can still hear them, but it box out noise. And then having complete darkness in my room when I sleep and things like that, just creating more space in our days to create more time so that the pressure and the over-simulation isn't so vast, and peaceful music in the car and less talking and things like that. So I almost am realizing that I'm pursuing less in those moments.

Speaker 1: 47:58

I love that realization and I would challenge you to ask yourself how can I incorporate this a little bit more? And maybe not meaning time like for 40 minutes, but is there five minutes At a certain part of my day that instead of answering those emails or slipping out the laundry or emptying the sink, that I can do that again for five or 10 minutes and just see what happens, see the shift afterwards, before school pick up, or something along those lines? How can I incorporate it a little bit more during the day?

Speaker 2: 48:36

So you mentioned somatic experiences and I have been getting targeted and I'm so interested in this, but I haven't really understood what it was. I'm getting targeted for somatic workouts but all the videos are of these women in positions crying, so I have not pursued it, but it's very interesting to me because they talk about sort of like you said, like releasing this stored up energy inside and maybe the crying is the way it's coming out and that's okay. Where I would look at crying as that looks painful and not something that I would enjoy, so I'm not going to pursue it, but it has been really intriguing for me. So I'm curious your thoughts on somatic experiencing and somatic workouts, like what does that mean?

Speaker 1: 49:27

I honestly have never heard of a somatic workout and I'm going to Google it right after this and I think that's so interesting. The messaging is so important is that we have this stored up energy. We have this stored up feeling in our body that isn't going anywhere. It isn't going anywhere. So in that moment when we're feeling frustrated with our kids and we're like, oh, that yelling it feels good because it's a release, we're like huh, for that moment it feels like we've like, yes, because I've released this thing that's being pent up. And then they're going to get in the shame and we realize it's not how we want to parent all the things, but we're recognizing we, this needs to be released somehow. And how can I release it?

Speaker 1: 50:07

And I would say a lot of people like but I work out. That's different. Yes, the dope of me. We feel good, but it's not the releasing of this physical Need that we have. So when I talk about the wall push ups right or the clenching and unclenching or I'm not sure if you've heard of a view like the sound, no.

Speaker 1: 50:29

So it's like I don't know if I sound weird, but essentially it's like finding this like this like engine, like viewing this, like let's see how I get it, oh, and that like from the chest vibrates you a little vibrates.

Speaker 1: 50:53

Even just the viewing even feels so good. Even when I do it right now I'm like I should keep going, like it feels good for the body, but the expending, getting this energy out somehow. So when you visualize yourself, it is a way of and if, erica, if the crying is in something that you would do to release the energy, it's again sitting with yourself in a moment asking what is that thing that maybe wouldn't be a societally acceptable to do right now, but I would really want to do, and you have that impulse and the visualization and the crying. Yeah, yeah, I have clients who it is, you know, for in different situations. For myself as well, it just is like this release, yeah.

Speaker 4: 51:38

So the other day, coach, the other day was talking me through rest and shame around rest, and what you were saying, erica and Stephanie made me think of that. Like when you said if you want to do something, that's like society would not want you to do right now or whatever. Or you were saying, like, try to pursue going into that closet. Like in the moment she and I were talking about how I have some shame and guilt around rest, especially when, like my partner is like buzzing around cleaning the house and I'm just like laying on my bed reading my book and how I'm wanting to do that. But I'm also feeling guilty, like should I go help him with the dishwasher? I don't really want to do that. And how, like women need more rest and we need rest at certain times of the month, and like to not have shame around pursuing that rest or that thing that we need.

Speaker 1: 52:35

That's such a good point, because everything that we're talking about today to requires the ability to put yourself first and what you need first and take that time or that rest or that time off from doing that thing that you think that you should be doing in order to achieve this.

Speaker 1: 52:52

And again, the way better serve right.

Speaker 1: 52:56

And again it's like the way that I talk about it is like if we can do this and model it for our kids and they will have the opportunity to do the same, so it is vital, it is important that's the way that I talk about it with parents but it should just be important because we want to feel better. It should just be important because we're important, not because we want to be better for our kids, but because we matter and we want to live a better life and a life where we're not buzzing around but the shame and the guilt it's so normal. I hear it from so many clients. I experience it's something I work through with myself but the recognition that I am more important than these other things and that's the model that I want to be for my family. That's the leader that I want to be in my family and even being able to have the conversation with your husband about I know I do this too like my husband will be cleaning up the kitchen at night and I'm just sitting and relax.

Speaker 1: 53:47

It doesn't mean I don't help him personally.

Speaker 4: 53:50

I'm like this is my time to relax Everyone's in bed.

Speaker 1: 53:53

This is like my, yeah totally, and part of that is you knowing I am like I contribute to this family. I do like I do enough. I don't need to do more to prove that I do enough. So, by you knowing that I have an example with my husband and I don't cook a lot, it's just like not my thing right now and he'll be the one to cook more often.

Speaker 1: 54:13

And he asked me it was like a couple months ago. He's like hey, so, steph, what do you think about you cooking more? Right, and he didn't say it in a way that was offensive, you know, but I was like I had two options in that moment. I could oh my gosh, I am a terrible mom and wife because I'm not cooking, even though I have the time, I'm not providing my family with these meals that they should be having. Or I could recognize I do enough, I do a lot for this family. One day, maybe I'll cook more. Right now I don't have the capacity and like that's okay. So me being okay with what I am doing, as is right now, helps me to be able to communicate that with him. And again, he's not. He may not have been like yes, awesome, I don't. Also, my goal in life or my job isn't to make him happy.

Speaker 4: 54:56

Yes, Okay, stephanie, I think this will be our last question. You mentioned sort of a hat take about parenting tips on social media when we talked. Can you tell us your?

Speaker 1: 55:08

thoughts there. The social media space is just so overwhelming with parenting tips. My personal take is that there was too much info and it's placing unrealistic expectations on parents that they need to be child psychologists or they need to say things in a perfect way and perfect parenting which, in and of itself, is that you can't be a perfect parent. I think it creates so much guilt and shame, especially when parents try these strategies and they don't work. Again, it's not all terrible and again, I think there's so much information which can be helpful, but I think we're just in an age of over information. So if you were listening and you are following all the people and thinking that you are doing a great job and that you don't need these parenting experts tips, you don't need my tips, right? You don't need these to be okay, like you're a good mom. So that's just sort of my hot take on the parenting tips. I think there's just too much information out there and too much competing information. Parents don't need to be child psychologists.

Speaker 2: 56:11

Great, that's amazing. Stephanie, thank you so much for being here. This was an important conversation. I think every single one of our listeners can relate and appreciate your tips. For our listeners, Stephanie's website and ways to get in touch with her are linked in our show notes. If you enjoyed this conversation and want to help us reach more working moms, please rate us where you listened to podcasts on Apple podcasts to scroll to the bottom of the app, hit the five stars or subscribe to our working mom our YouTube channel. Thanks again.

Speaker 4: 56:46

This was so good. Thanks, Stephanie. Thank you so much Thank you. This time won't, let anyone cut me short. I was thinking this was the way to go and you put up your puppet show. I say cheers to life. No, I'll be no good man's wife, just be me alone. I'm on your show. I tell you it's my time to rise up, live the life I'm proud of. No, you can't go home. I tell you it's my time to rise up, live the life I'm proud of.