During tough moments, sometimes the best thing you can do is hold space.
Dr. Charuta Furey has spent her entire career doing just that. As a trailblazing resident neurosurgeon at the Barrow Neurological Institute in Phoenix, Arizona, she leads patients and families through their darkest times with empathy and understanding.
Throughout this discussion, she shares how she follows her clinical intuition, which has helped her navigate the challenges of balancing a demanding career with motherhood.
In this episode, you'll discover the following:
Timestamps:
0:00 - 1:26: Introduction
1:28 - 9:08: Journey to Neurosurgery and Empathy
9:09 - 13:15: Navigating Tough Conversations
13:16 - 17:43: Navigating the Demands of Career and Motherhood
17:53 - 21:04: Pre-surgery Preparation
21:05 - 24:35: Handling Neurosurgery Challenges
25:40 - 34:49: Navigating Patient Care and Patient Empowerment
36:23 - 40:47: Support Systems
40:48 - 41:57: Describing Work to Children
42:08 - 43:59: Navigating Patient Recovery
44:41 - 43:24: Cultivating Gratitude and Self-Compassion
43:29 - 45:55: Conclusion
Connect with Dr Charuta Furey:
X: charutafurey
Learn more about the Ivy Brain Tumor Center at Barrow Neurological Institute:
Visit website: https://www.barrowneuro.org/
Please make sure to subscribe so you don’t miss an episode, and kindly review the podcast on Apple Podcasts so we can reach more working moms.
We always want to hear your thoughts, concerns, questions or guest suggestions – email workingmomhour@212comm.com.
Follow us!
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Working Mom Hour Website: https://workingmomhour.com/
Subscribe to our YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/@workingmomhour
During tough moments, sometimes the best thing you can do is hold space.
Dr. Charuta Furey has spent her entire career doing just that. As a trailblazing resident neurosurgeon at the Barrow Neurological Institute in Phoenix, Arizona, she leads patients and families through their darkest times with empathy and understanding.
Throughout this discussion, she shares how she follows her clinical intuition, which has helped her navigate the challenges of balancing a demanding career with motherhood.
In this episode, you'll discover the following:
Timestamps:
0:00 - 1:26: Introduction
1:28 - 9:08: Journey to Neurosurgery and Empathy
9:09 - 13:15: Navigating Tough Conversations
13:16 - 17:43: Navigating the Demands of Career and Motherhood
17:53 - 21:04: Pre-surgery Preparation
21:05 - 24:35: Handling Neurosurgery Challenges
25:40 - 34:49: Navigating Patient Care and Patient Empowerment
36:23 - 40:47: Support Systems
40:48 - 41:57: Describing Work to Children
42:08 - 43:59: Navigating Patient Recovery
44:41 - 43:24: Cultivating Gratitude and Self-Compassion
43:29 - 45:55: Conclusion
Connect with Dr Charuta Furey:
X: charutafurey
Learn more about the Ivy Brain Tumor Center at Barrow Neurological Institute:
Visit website: https://www.barrowneuro.org/
Please make sure to subscribe so you don’t miss an episode, and kindly review the podcast on Apple Podcasts so we can reach more working moms.
We always want to hear your thoughts, concerns, questions or guest suggestions – email workingmomhour@212comm.com.
Follow us!
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/workingmomhour
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/workingmomhour/
TikTok: https:/www.tiktok.com/@workingmomhour
Working Mom Hour Website: https://workingmomhour.com/
Subscribe to our YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/@workingmomhour
But I think that clinical intuition is what really defines great doctors and great surgeons, and you really can't get that without putting in the time and really being dedicated to your craft.
Speaker 2:Welcome to Working Mom. Out Aw f***, hi everyone. Welcome to Working Mom.
Speaker 3:Out. I'm Erica and I'm Madeline. We're working moms, business partners and friends with kids at different ages and stages.
Speaker 2:We know moms tend to get more done in an hour than the average human, yet are often misunderstood and underappreciated in the workplace.
Speaker 3:We are here to shine a light on the Working Mom experience, to help ourselves and others step into and advocate for the superpower. We are not experts. We're two women who have been there and are still there.
Speaker 2:kids, clients and all Join us as we cultivate more joy in working motherhood at the corner of calm and chaos. Today, on Working Mom Out, we are honored to welcome Dr Taruta Fury, a trailblazing resident neurological surgeon at the Barrow Neurological Institute in Phoenix, Arizona. Dr Fury's journey into the world of neurosurgery is not just inspiring but deeply personal. Her path was set at a tender age of seven when she witnessed her mother's battle with brain cancer and the profound impact of her neurosurgical team. Dr Fury's commitment to the field extends beyond the operating room as she works to demystify treatment paths and provide hope and reassurance to those she serves. A leadership fellowship from women in neurosurgery is a testament to her incredible contributions as she models what's possible for medical professionals. Let's welcome Dr Taruta Fury.
Speaker 3:Dr Fury, welcome to Working Mom Hour. Thank you for having me. When we first spoke, you told us it's so important for families to have a doctor that can feel.
Speaker 2:Can you tell us more about why you believe empathy is so important? I'm not sure. I'm not sure. I'm not sure, I'm not sure. Can you tell us more about why you believe empathy is so important in this role?
Speaker 1:Absolutely. A lot of the time, particularly in neurosurgery, you're having conversations with people on their very worst day. They're conversations people remember forever. I think the neurosurgical patient in particular. One of my mentors always said that the reason she was drawn to neurosurgery is because it was the closest thing to being able to restore someone's humanity through surgery. I find that to be very true that when people have a heart attack, when you break your leg, things like that, most of the time the essence of your being, your personality, all these things that make you you are still the same Versus the neurosurgical patient. Oftentimes the way things will present is through a tumor causing personality change, really changing in some ways the essence of who you present to be to your family. That makes it not only challenging for the patient but the entire family. In that case, I think those bad side conversations, that doctor-patient relationship, really is sacred. If you can't yourself feel for your patients and wear your heart on your sleeve a little bit, I think you kind of lose that art of medicine.
Speaker 4:I know that you had experience with brain cancer diagnosis from your mom when you were very little. Can you tell us a little bit about that and how it influenced your career choice?
Speaker 1:Yes, absolutely. I was quite little I think seven years old when my mom had her first diagnosis of brain cancer. It's funny, I don't remember a lot of the specifics of her treatment course. I don't remember a lot of the specifics of what medications she had, what surgeries she had, but I have never been able to really forget those conversations. I remember her attending neurosurgeon, drawing out the anatomy on the exam room paper with crayons that were there. I remember the kindness of the nurses that took care of her and these were all people that I mean. They looked tired. They were there for us on our very worst days and I think that was really profound to me. That you know, for a lot of these residents their conversations with us were ones that stuck with us forever. But for that resident it was just routine kindness on a Tuesday afternoon while they were rounding, and so I just thought that was a really spiritually fulfilling thing to dedicate yourself to, and I love what I do.
Speaker 1:I love residency. Most people think that's hilarious, but I love the day to day kind of the. You know, obviously, the grandeur of neurosurgery, the awake craniotomies where you're doing a surgery and someone's tremor goes away in real time while they're playing a violin, I mean. But for me, after those experiences, particularly with my mother, I love the day to day of neurosurgery the rounding, the just being able to explain someone's treatment course, walk someone through an MRI All of that is really special and it's.
Speaker 1:You know, my dad used to always tell me how privileged we are in medicine. We get to meet people from every walk of life, every single day and there for them, and that's really really, really important and it's really a special, privileged, privileged things to be able to do. And I think just how my mom dealt with her diagnosis too is exceptionally motivating. You know, moms are superheroes and I think she always put on such a great front. She I remember the day after one of her craniotomies she was up and trying to make dinner for us, you know. So he's just so strong. And both my parents, you know they came over here. We didn't have any family.
Speaker 1:You know they came from India and so they didn't have family and she was just so strong and she just has this great sense of humor she has you know, she's cement where they did part of the craniotomy and she joke when I was little that she's heart headed, so did not you know if you was going to be at 9pm? You know, I think just her strength and how she always put on a brave face through all of that was exceptionally motivating for me to going through, going through life.
Speaker 4:You're so warm and so human and I just love you as like a face of a neurosurgeon, you know, like a spokesperson like you. Can I really like took with you what you said about routine kindness. Like for them it's just routine kindness and for me, I'll, you know, remember it forever and I think that's such a special approach.
Speaker 2:I have to say this week is the eight year anniversary of my father's passing and we lost him to. He had cancer and he had a tumor in his brain that erupted, so stroke and we lost him to a stroke. And I will never forget even though it was routine for every doctor to be moving through the motions I will never forget the kindness that they had during that week, even to the point of we had to leave him. He donated his body to science and my mother was just so I can't. I can't imagine it was going through her hand. But she walked up to a resident and she was like, do I need to get a receipt to leave him here? Like she wanted a receipt for his body. She just didn't know and they typed, they typed her a receipt so that she could leave him.
Speaker 2:It was just really. It's like little things like that, to your point, that we will just never forget for the rest of our day. It was the worst day of our life and and we laughed at the end when they handed us a receipt and we get to the receipt, it's with the gasses, but it is really, really important that doctors can see and feel their patients and empathize. I can't imagine, had we had a cold doctor during that experience, where we would have and our grief and recovery process from it to you play a part If it's heading in that direction right for a loved one, you play a role in kicking that off for us.
Speaker 1:I think that's such a profound observation because, you know, a lot of the times the things that have meant the most for my patients have been, like you said, just routine, simple acts of kindness that you realize when you you know, for a second, allow yourself an opportunity to feel and kind of break away from that routine and your checkboxes and your list from the day.
Speaker 1:And you know simple things like washing one of my patient, my patients hair, you know, after they had a bedside procedure for an emergent ventricular drain and the patient ended up you shouldn't have passing but they were going to have an open casket and so it was just these very, very simple things that allow, allow us to, and you know is I've found that very profound in my training and it's easy to forget that sometimes when because part of it too is as you get really good at your job it does become routine, which is a good thing. Your patients wanted to be. You know routine and want you to have seen things a million times, but maintaining that is really important, that empathy in your care.
Speaker 4:Do you have any advice on how to navigate tough conversations like the ones you have with families, or deliver tough or complicated news for the listeners out there from your experience, yes, absolutely.
Speaker 1:I think. You know I have a couple. I had some really, really great mentors throughout this entire journey and I think all of them have have highlighted a lot of the conversation to go well. A lot of it happens before you even say anything at all. So anytime you're having any kind of difficult discussion, I think it's important to set the stage, to make sure you're in a quiet room, that you don't hear, you know that you're sitting down, you're not standing, your everyone feels comfortable, everybody knows that the conversation is happening, that all the important people are in the room. Obviously, sometimes it's an emergent situation and so you have people on speakerphone and you have people who are coming in. So those are extenuating circumstances. But, to the best of your abilities, really setting the stage I think that alone is, you know, gets you part of the way there.
Speaker 1:And then, for me, I just like to be as transparent as possible. I think honesty is really important and I really just describe to my patients where I'm coming from. I just say you know I'm a straight shooter. I want you to know what, I know where, your team, but you're the quarterback of this team. And so here are the facts and here's the information and here's the scan, and I think it's really important. I think we have this kind of fiduciary responsibility to the patient to be very honest, and I think that's true in all of our conversations with difficult news. That was something that one of my mentors really stressed was you know, if you dance around the fact that the patient is dead or brain dead or you know, whatever the news that you're delivering is, you know you're, you're kind of taking the easy way out and you're not giving the family the closure that they need, and so it's hard, but it is your responsibility to say what the diagnosis is, to give the facts as you know them and to not sugarcoat things, and that can be difficult, obviously, to receive. But I think when you set the stage and you say where you're coming from and you say what responsibility you have to the patient to have this discussion and then just saying, look, it's a lot of information, you don't have to remember any of this, we can come back. You know and I was joking I always say you know residents. They call residents for a reason we're residents of the hospital, we live here.
Speaker 1:Usually, when to deliver the bad news, people aren't really in a frame of reference to listen to. They're not really absorbing everything else that you say, and I remember that too. You know, every time that a physician told us something, I remember just kind of having both somehow simultaneously million questions to follow up and not listening, being able to really receive and comprehend any of the answers, and so I think that's important to do. So you have a conversation, you make sure that you're demonstrating that that's the most important thing at that moment for you, and then that you can circle back. And there are sometimes I find these discussions the most difficult when I'm on call and there are my pages going off and there are a lot of other things going on. And again, I kind of paint that framework in the beginning If I can, I'll leave my pager outside, if I can't, I'll tell the patient I'm on call right now. But I do want to have this discussion because it is a pressing discussion, and set the stage that way.
Speaker 4:And knowing that, like you, you work in what can be such a heavy space, I'm sure there's a lot of joy and like exciting, you know parts of it when there are positive outcomes as well. But how do you navigate the demands of the mental load, not to mention the emotional load, of your schedule as a mom and a neurosurgeon?
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's a great question and I think it's an evolving answer. The biggest thing that has been a life changing paradigm for me is reframing my focus to being very mission-oriented, and I think that all of the times that I'm not mission-oriented I kind of get off track. Really reflecting on, you know, what are my missions? My missions at work are to provide really great patient care to you know, contribute to teaching, to contribute to being a good team player, to helping my team, and then in some way to contribute to research so that things are better for our future brain tumor patients. So those are my missions at work. And then my missions at home are to raise a happy, healthy child, you know, that feels loved and so, and to be a good wife and be a good daughter and all these things.
Speaker 1:But as soon as I find myself beating myself up, sometimes as far as you know, I didn't hit this on the checklist or I didn't do this other thing and I could tell you guys about kind of a recent experience I had, even in the hospital where you know I'd had a really great, great call of a lot of patients who had done really well. We'd gotten them to surgery Couple of them, you know, really had some life-altering good outcomes in that period of time. And so the next day I went by one of the patient rooms, someone that I'd helped and helped to be a part of their care. When the patient's spouse asked me, you know I think he mistook me for environmental services and asked me to change the sheets and was really upset that the sheets hadn't been changed. And so this is just an example. But in that moment I felt, you know, you feel these different slights or you feel these sorts of things, and I felt very crestfallen. You know, I had all these moments of man, I'm working so hard, I'm giving everything, and so my patients don't even know that I'm a physician or a surgeon when I walk in the room. And I felt very crestfallen and that was an example of the importance of mission orientation for me, you know, something that would have otherwise really kicked me down the rest of the day or week. Instead, it was kind of like my mission is to provide really good patient care, and this patient came to the hospital with a brain bleed and their family is worried about the patient's care and health, the way that I am, and so my ego, and how I'm being received and how all of that is going is irrelevant to the mission, and so that has really helped me. And so, you know, I left the room, I got the sheets, I changed the sheets, then I came back in and reintroduced myself as part of their care team.
Speaker 1:So I think and that happens, you know, at home when my son is throwing a tantrum, or you know, I feel like I'm coming up short in a lot of ways. One of my other friends told me kind of there are these like three plants in your life. One plant is you know yourself, your mental health, all those sorts of things. Another is your family and your home life, and another is professional, and there are some days you can't water all three plants but you have to make sure that you know your mission is just to keep them alive and keep them thriving, and so that's allowed me to give myself some grace. So along in me, andrew answer. But that is kind of been a really important paradigm shift for me for coping with things.
Speaker 2:Probably maintaining a confident and steady demeanor is pretty important for what you do and for you. I'm curious what are your specific like rituals, routines, meditations that you have going into a big high pressure surgery?
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think the big thing is preparation. I did cheerleading for a very long time, all the way through college and in a little bit after too, and so I think one of the big things that you learn in cheerleading there are a number of different little lessons, but before you perform in nationals or anything, that you kind of visualize what hitting every stunt and hitting your routine looks like and you visualize exactly where you're gonna be. And my husband, he's a fighter pilot for the Marine Corps and they call it chair flying, and so that visualization is really important. I think I walk through all the steps of the case. I walk through, kind of where there might be touch points, where things might be more difficult or easy, and I think I kind of have a routine in the morning and I have a routine in every case, every single case. Before we start we all have the imaging up, we have a timeout with all of the staff. There's just a certain rhythm and sort of ritual to it all to make it seem like another kind of any given Sunday Very routine. You have your A team always. We have an incredible staff at the B&I and the Ivy Center and a lot of times it's all the way down to even just the music that I listen to driving into work. It's all very, very, very typified to allow for a very relaxed and routine day.
Speaker 1:I think that was the other thing in cheerleading that I took away was, you know, if you go to a game and you see a cheerleader hit a stunt or something, right, you're never worried about them falling. If you're worried about them falling, then they probably shouldn't have done it, and so, to me, that was excellence, right? Excellence is doing things and not letting people, you know, making it look easy, and so that means throughout the whole day, you know, in order to make sure things go smoothly, keeping a calm mind, being very kind to my staff so that they feel very comfortable speaking up if there's a problem, you know, anytime that you start to raise your voice or get out of control, you're actually no longer, you know, making it look easy, you're no longer demonstrating excellence in your patient care, and so I think all of those things have been really important to allowing for a very smooth, smooth operative day.
Speaker 4:Some jobs are very consistent. You know what the outcome's gonna be, but I have to imagine your cases are probably just so different, like each case, and the work that you do is, I assume, to be very, very different. Is that accurate? And how do you, how do you work through those uncertainties, or maybe these like typified routines you discuss is how you find normalcy.
Speaker 1:I think that's one of the most difficult parts of neurosurgery and in many types of surgery is you can have a perfect surgery. Everything can go perfectly and things can still go wrong, and that is a very, very humbling, humbling thing. And then there are times when you do something wrong. And I remember when I was a medical student, people asked me. They said you know what do you think is going to be the hardest part of residency and neurosurgery in your career? And I remember kind of dreading that moment where you know one, everything goes perfectly and a patient has a bad outcome and you're kind of racking your brain as to what happened. You know why did they have this pulmonary embolism? Or you know something else that even can happen. And the second, which was even more terrifying to me, was what's going to happen when I make a mistake and it's my fault and I hurt someone, and both of those things are very heavy.
Speaker 1:I think Henry Marsh and Do no Harm talks about every surgeon has their own personal graveyard that they walk around with, that they visit sometimes to, and I think each of those situations you know weigh heavy on you but they do make you better in the sense that you, you know you want to do everything you can to prevent that from happening again, but there is a certain element of uncertainty, and I think that's where the things that allow you to have balance and grace are really important. Whether that's your, for me it's. You know my spirituality, I love to do yoga and meditate and I have a really, really strong support system outside of the hospital that I love to love to lean on. I think all those things are really important because there is a lot that's outside of our control. There is a lot that we don't know about the brain medicine in general and that can be very, very humbling. But that's that in many ways has kind of strengthened my faith.
Speaker 2:What we do as a society. Expect you to be perfect. We do, I mean we. We don't really understand, you know, what goes into the making of of a doctor or a surgeon, but we have such trust as a society that you are going to be perfect and I can't imagine the pressure that that also has to put on you?
Speaker 1:Yeah, no, absolutely I think it's. It's it's pressure and trust. You know, in a lot of ways, right, it's expectations are really a trust and that's a really beautiful responsibility to have and and I think that pushes you to be better. And and I think you know a lot of the time the reason. You know, neurosurgical training is seven years long and that's even after medical school and undergraduate and all of that, and then you go and do fellowship oftentimes too, and a lot of that is is you want, you know, you want to be exceptionally well trained, you want to have seen things a million times so that you, you are confident. It's not false confidence, it really is. There's really no replacement for those reps in striving for that kind of perfection. But you're right that sometimes there are things that say you're controlled or sometimes we come up short.
Speaker 4:I also think this conversation is can be empowering for us as patients, and I think when I grew up and in young adulthood, I just saw doctors as like all knowing, and I think, slowly, as we age and as we experience our own health issues or familial health issues, or especially when we have babies, we have to learn that we are our own advocates. It took having my first baby to understand that when they're not going to necessarily give you a lactation consultant or they're you know they're they're going to encourage certain decisions that maybe don't align with your values or whatever that is that we actually do as patients have a voice and I like that. You said it like we're all a team and you're the quarterback, or however you stated it.
Speaker 4:My first interaction with like a complex medical issue was a dear friend of mine in Texas whose little baby had a brain tumor, has a brain tumor he's he's big now and I was in that room, like hospital room, with her and it was my first time witnessing like she was Googling possible solutions, like she they had been living at the hospital you see this every day and like it wasn't just taking what the doctor was saying, like everyone was trying to come up with what this could be or what we could do or who in the world might have an answer, and I had never witnessed that before and so obviously that can be seen as a scary thing.
Speaker 4:I'm just in marketing and you know I'm supposed to be solving this issue for this medical issue, complex medical issue. But it also can feel empowering because you have, you can help, Like sometimes, I think, as patients we can feel helpless, but I think every day people are learning and growing and being part of that, their own care team in some ways, and you are the critical leader of that team. But everyone sort of can be part of that as well.
Speaker 1:Especially in my research is in glioblastoma and in different types of brain tumors, where we don't have good solutions, and again, a lot of that is inspired by my mom's own journey.
Speaker 1:And so I think in those spaces in particular where medicine doesn't have all the answers and we're working tirelessly to improve outcomes, I think patient communities coming together can be very empowering, and I've been so inspired by the glioblastoma space of patient families coming together, patients coming together to be in groups to talk about their treatment journey, talk about things like you know, scan anxiety, where every time you get an MRI you don't know what it's going to look like and can you plan for this next vacation or what's it going to be like.
Speaker 1:And so, even just having you know, there's been a lot of really beautiful patient-led and family-led efforts, a lot of research. The IV Brain Tumor Center is inspired by Catherine Ivy, and the Ben and Catherine Ivy Foundation is an honor of her husband who battled glioblastoma, and so I think you know patients really have this very important role in improving care and I think even in my medical education at Yale it was very patient-centered. So there's this beautiful quote by Sir William Osler outside of our physical exam room at Yale Medical School that said listen to your patient. He's telling you the diagnosis, you know. That's not to say that we're off the hook with you, know. I think patients are also very comforted by knowing that you're very well trained and you are very knowledgeable within the scope of what medicine can offer as answers.
Speaker 2:This is reminding me, mads, your story and just in general. You know, when I became a mom, my mother, you know, told me that I needed to listen to my own intuition when it came to my children and my own health, and we talk about this a lot here too just how to hone and listen to your intuition. So I imagine all of the school and all of the practice and all of the work that you do. How much of that is also listening to your own intuition.
Speaker 1:People will often ask me you know, do you think neurosurgical residency, training and all of this is too long? And maybe it's just hindsight? But I think that you know you really there are no shortcuts. You really just have to spend the time. And you know how do you develop a lot of that intuition. It's by taking care of patients, it's by being in the operating room late, it's by making it second nature, where a case is quite routine, because you've done it hundreds and thousands of times. It's not false confidence, it's true confidence, because you've been there, you've seen it, you've gotten yourself out of unexpected, you know unexpected complications, if they do present themselves. And so I think that that intuition develops by, you know, spending time in the gym. There's no replacement for that. Actually, a lot of people talk about even the work hour restrictions for residents. And you know some people will say you know, why don't you have shorter shifts and more shift change and more sign out?
Speaker 1:And I think sometimes that intuition is really important.
Speaker 1:And I'll give you an example of you know, when you see a patient and you've seen them in the clinic and you see them say in the ER, you know how they talk to you, you know they're, you know where they're from, you know if they're they've got they're quick-witted, they've got a sense of humor, all those sorts of things.
Speaker 1:And so when you sign that out, sometimes, especially in an emergent setting, you'll say, oh, this person, they're alert and oriented times three, you know they're full strength. And then you leave. And then the other person now, this time when they go see them, that person isn't joking around, they're still alert and oriented times three. But you know you may not have that gestalt for what their neurological status really is, what your intuition for or some things off. And I think that can sometimes be really important too, to kind of maintaining that longitudinal care and sometimes even maintaining patient care throughout the patient's admission and not having too short of shift changes, so that you can have that intuition, you can check on the patient and you can see what they look like after surgery and and make sure nothing's amiss. But I think that clinical intuition is is is what really defines great doctors and great surgeons, and you really can't get that without putting in the time and really being dedicated to your craft.
Speaker 4:Oh my gosh, you need to coin some of these. Maybe they already are. Clinical intuition, routine kindness. This is amazing. You mentioned your husband is a fighter pilot in the Marines. How do you lean on and support each other as you manage two intense roles? And I don't know that? We asked about your child. How old is your child?
Speaker 1:My son. His name's Neam, he's two and change, so and this is just such a fun age to my husband deployed. Yeah, he deployed when my son was two weeks old and then he came back, I think seven or eight months later. That was a really, really beautiful homecoming. But you know, I really think for me the secret to success in life has been marrying out of my league and my husband is just wonderful. He's just such a great person and he, he, he's a great teammate. You know we joke that marriage and relationships are just like a series of group projects and I don't know if you guys remember in elementary school, but it was always great. There's always that one person you wanted to be on a group project with because you knew they found such a wonderful, wonderful person to go through life with. And I think you know the fact that he's a Marine and he's a pilot. It's worked really well because he also has a profession that is, you know, more than just a job.
Speaker 2:I imagine the perspective in your household is very different than most. Is there like profound gratitude when you two get to be together?
Speaker 1:Yes, there is. Oh, my goodness, I remember you know people would always ask me you know what are you guys going to do now that you're together and residency has been great because I get to be in Arizona, he gets to fly fast planes in New York, arizona, we get to be in the same state. Finally, people would always ask me you know what are you going to do? And I just like it groceries with them. You know, you just have a ton of fun when we are together and I think in many ways it's a you really are grateful for, kind of the simple things you know Sunday morning walks to get coffee, things like that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, we have a close friend who talks about partnerships and made the comment. You know you're in a good partnership where each of you think that you're getting the better end of the deal.
Speaker 1:I like that a lot. I like that a lot. No, that's one of my favorite questions to ask my patients I have so many incredible examples of love and service to one's partner, especially for a lot of my brain tumor patients and ask them what's the secret. And I get some really great answers. I think last week I got one. Sometimes you have to think, do I want to be right or do I want to be kind? And they all have these great pearls on how they've made it work.
Speaker 2:That's so nice we often talk about here, like showing our work with our kids and I know you have a two-year-old is so unique. How do you and do you both communicate your job to Ne'am?
Speaker 1:In particular, one thing I've been trying to be really intentional about is whenever I'm going into the hospital or whenever I have to go do work, I try to describe it as this positive thing.
Speaker 1:And that came from a senior woman, ne'er Sardran, who told me about this Because otherwise normally I'd be like oh I'm sorry, mommy has to go into the hospital. And when you paint it kind of negatively, it's like well, if you don't like it, why are you leaving me to go do this thing? So now, instead, a lot of times I'll look at the MRI scans for my cases and he'll come sit on my lap and go through them and point out the eyes and the nose and that's cool, which is great. And taking him on rounds my patients really love that, especially if it's a weekend and just really telling him about the excitement of you know, mommy's going to go do this and I'm really excited to help so and so and so then now he gets excited when he walks by the hospital and he'll point. He still sometimes will say mama, house, what do you mean to the hospital?
Speaker 2:Oh, that is dear.
Speaker 1:Just both of us work on kind of making sure that we describe our jobs in a positive light and describe what our missions are in our respective job so that he's excited about it too.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think that is such an important point I don't think I've necessarily done with my kids. Well, I think we show our work, but making sure that it's positive, so that they know you are leaving them for something that also fills your cup, because you're setting an example for when they get to that stage too, that they should be doing something that fills their cup.
Speaker 1:Yeah, no, absolutely. I was at a recent neurosurgical meeting, one of the neurosurgeons from abroad. She brought her daughter, I think, all the way from Bangladesh and there's a very senior, incredible neurosurgeon, dr Gail Rousseau. She's one of the total people that have paved the way for others afterwards and I remember I told her daughter do you think you want to be a neurosurgeon? And she says yes, yes, I'd love to, and Dr Rousseau goes regardless of whether or not you want to be a neurosurgeon, I hope one day you have a job you love as much as I love my job, and I thought that was just really special.
Speaker 4:That's a great answer yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it was really great, so I really carried that with me.
Speaker 5:I wanted to ask a question about the recovery process because I imagine post-surgery patients go through a long recovery and the only personal example I have from my life that I know of a recovery process is physical therapy, which it's just. It's all about being patient with the process in my eyes. But I'm curious from your standpoint, what is one piece of advice for caregivers or patients themselves as they're going through a recovery process?
Speaker 1:One of the big things that we've seen, even in our literature for recovery, is expectation setting and what we call prehab, and I wish we did that for more things. I wish I had personally done that before I gave birth. And we've seen in particular for spine surgery and these types of surgery where it's really important to mobilize and to get up. And you can have my brother-in-law as a joint sky and he talks that you can do a perfect knee, but if you don't rehab it, it doesn't matter. And so we've seen the role of prehab being super important, and so I think that a lot of those conversations in the clinic what will my rehab look like? Are there opportunities for prehab? How can I get myself in the best optimal shape going into surgery? A lot of times you can even meet with your future physical therapist and do a couple of sessions before, and even little things like how can I optimize for back surgery and things like that? You may already be on pain medication. How can I optimize things so that I'm going in in the best possible way and maybe optimize what my level of activity is before I go in?
Speaker 1:For a lot of our patients sometimes that can be not if they're smoking, quitting smoking, all those things.
Speaker 1:How can I optimize my health even before I am admitted into the hospital and how can I get to know all of the people that are going to be really important in my recovery process now, as opposed to later scrambling to get in?
Speaker 1:And so I think there's a lot of correlates for that. If you're maybe meeting your pelvic floor PT person before you go in to have your baby, all those sorts of things. So once you have the baby or once you've had surgery now you're really treading water and the last thing you want to know is and figure out is, where do I have authorization? Can I go in here? Where do I park when I get there? So we found that to be very helpful for the recovery process. We have a lot of patient education booklets that go through what the process is going to look like, how many weeks things are going to be, how to get your home in order so that if you have a two-story home, making arrangements so you don't have to take the stairs up to the second floor. All those sorts of things are really nice to do even before the first admission.
Speaker 5:Totally. I love that concept of prehab and then also just reiterating it's a process and that means it's just your life is going to look a little different, and I love that you tied it back to motherhood and postpartum, because that's what I was thinking as we were talking about this too.
Speaker 1:Yeah, absolutely. I just think there's so many great opportunities, at least for me. I had so many wonderful moms and many working moms around me that really did try to tell me and describe what the process was going to be like. But I think until you really go through it there was no way to truly be prepared, and so I think that could help is really setting those expectations for what kind of care you might need postpartum and getting those set up early, like a lactation consultant, just booking that, having someone come out when you anticipate being back home, that's right, yeah, great advice.
Speaker 2:All right, we'll jump to our final question with you. What is one tool that helps you in working motherhood?
Speaker 1:So the big thing for me has been compartmentalizing and really being present whenever I'm home, being home and when I'm at the hospital, being at the hospital. So it's almost like I've been trying to get rid of tools, and so what's helped me do that especially someone who still needs to know if there's an emergency or something going on is I've used my Apple Watch a lot and that's been very helpful. Where I leave my phone in the bedroom as I'm walking into the house, I just have the Apple Watch, so if it's really an emergency, I can quickly look down and deal with that. But otherwise I'm home, I'm present and I'm not constantly just on my phone looking at emails, and so that's been very helpful. And then another thing that's been a great tool, and this is kind of a more soft thing.
Speaker 1:I think sometimes as moms, we're our own harshest critics, and my mom always jokes she's like all these things you have this internal dialogue about that you're saying to yourself about being pretty harsh.
Speaker 1:Would you say that to your girlfriend and be like no, absolutely not. I'm like the biggest cheerleader for all my Rockstar girlfriends. And so I made this folder on my phone and it's screenshots and photos and all these things, it's just my happy things folder and it's just a ton of things. If I get a grateful patient card, I'll take a picture of it, put it in there. If it's something my son said, if it's getting an award or just getting a nice text message from a junior resident who is grateful that you walked them through a case and took time to teach all those things they keep in a little folder and it's nice to revisit those on those days where you're being kind of your own worst critic, just to remember all the good and all that you have to be grateful for and kind of see all the ways in which you are to give yourself some grace.
Speaker 2:Such a good answer. I love that yeah.
Speaker 1:Everyone should have a happy things folder. I think it's really important. Happy things I love that.
Speaker 5:I have like a little folder that says girlies and it's all like nice text messages from my girlfriends.
Speaker 1:I'm like ah, it's just nice. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. That's so important, especially since one other little sentiment that one of my friends was telling me was, you know, and so she's a really wonderful neurosurgeon that I look up to there aren't a lot of women neurosurgeons, as you can imagine. Less than 6% of board certified neurosurgeons are women, and so she was talking to me about how, at work, it's, sometimes it can be addicting because you get all this positive feedback. You know you get positive feedback of fixing the thing and your society kind of values your role. You get this respect.
Speaker 1:You get all these things and when you're home, a lot of you know, a lot of parts of motherhood are thankless and they're beautiful and they're really important and we live for those, like you know, fulfilling happiness moments. But many of them are thankless and you don't get that instant gratification all the time, no matter how hard you work and how hard you try. So I think that can be, that can be super important to have those reminders of days and times when, when you know that, make it to the happy things folder. That's really, for instance, she told me she was like you know, be really conscious of that. That is the nugget.
Speaker 4:I never thought about it. I never have thought about it like that, but I can. I can definitely see that in so many working moms, worlds especially, you know high achievers and remembering the joyful parts of and the why of being at home, because that is very important to you Well.
Speaker 2:A huge thank you for being here, dr Fury. This was so fun and very cool to hear such a unique perspective, especially in working motherhood. How can our listeners connect with you, either personally or professionally?
Speaker 1:you know, if there, I guess, do you guys have an email address or any any way in which people want to contact me? I'm available. I especially if there are people who are, you know, dealing with navigating parts of working motherhood or interested in their surgery. I think we really could use a lot more women in the field to provide that unique perspective. I'm always open and always excited to talk and do whatever I can to help people as well. That's one of my favorite parts of nurse surgeries is kind of helping women who are interested that are coming through the ranks.
Speaker 2:Amazing. All right, well, you can find your email address. We'll make sure we pop that in the show notes if you're interested. Thank you again so much. Thank you, guys.