Cultivating Our Creative Cycles

What’s more valuable - creativity or productivity? Spoiler alert: it’s a trick question.

To understand why these two practices are better together, we brought on social innovation artist, and creator of Rest to Harvest, Moulsari Jain. In this interview, she helps us get in sync with our natural cycles, embrace every stage, and find peace after we hit the pause button. 

Moulsari challenges the notion of isolated creativity, comparing it to demanding a plant to uproot itself, which is impossible. Trust us, we’ve tried. Instead, she encourages us to celebrate ideas and possibilities without rigid control. 

What you'll learn from this episode:

- Tap into your innate creativity by embracing the Rest to Harvest approach.
- Honor your natural cycle.
- Recognize the importance of building relationships and community connections.
- Balance masculine and feminine energies.
- Change your perspective on productivity by learning the value of simply being instead of constantly striving for tangible results.

01:30 - Origin of "Rest to Harvest" concept.
06:15 - Embracing the power of doing nothing.
14:00 - Understanding women's natural cycles.
26:57 - Balancing masculine and feminine energies.
35:30 - Adapting to technological change.
42:33 - The power of community in Rest to Harvest.
46:19 - Embracing vulnerability for growth.

Check out her TEDx talk: Rest to Harvest - Redesigning work along the cycles of life  | Moulsari Jain | TEDxBreda

Connect with Moulsari Jain
LinkedIn: Moulsari Jain
Facebook: Moulsari : B-A-D for GOOD 
Instagram: @moulsari
Website: https://moulsari.com/

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Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:00

You know, we've crafted this idea of work which isolates us, an idea that I alone have to be creative and come up with the ideas, and it should be in my head. I just need to somehow reach in there and pull it out. But can you ever imagine planting a seed and then demanding that the plant like pull the plant out?

Speaker 2: 0:21

Welcome to Working Mom Marrowing oh fuck, hi everyone. Welcome to Working Mom Hour. I'm Erica and I'm Madeline. We're working moms business partners and friends with kids at different ages and stages. We know moms tend to get more done in an hour than the average human, yet are often misunderstood and underappreciated in the workplace.

Speaker 3: 0:50

We are here to shine a light on the working mom experience, to help ourselves and others step into and advocate for the superpower. We are not experts. We're two women who have been there and are still there.

Speaker 2: 1:01

kids, clients and all Join us as we cultivate more joy in working motherhood at the corner of calm and chaos.

Speaker 4: 1:22

Thank you everyone for joining us again on Working Mom Hour. Today we get to introduce you to social innovator and TEDx speaker, mulseri. Jain Mulseri is re-imagining work culture through her groundbreaking philosophy called Rest to Harvest, a radical, creative proposal to work half as much as we do now and invest our resources instead in the very ingredients that minimize burnout and loss of talent, while maximizing the creativity and productivity that impacts the bottom line and our souls. I should add Fascinating and hopeful, and makes a whole lot of sense to us. Mulsari was born in India, raised in nine countries, educated in New York City, and is currently based in Amsterdam. She has been a senior faculty member at the School of Life and has guided thousands of leaders in a range of organizations, including Netflix, cartier, kpmg and Bookingcom. Please help us say hello to Mulseri. You talk a lot about creative energy, as do we, and I'm curious to kick off the conversation with a question for you, and then maybe we all can answer when are you most creative?

Speaker 1: 2:49

I love that you're asking my favorite question back at me straight away. Thanks for that.

Speaker 1: 2:57

You know it's a funny dichotomy On the one hand, I get really creative when I have a deadline. So a little bit of stress, but like good stress, not not like I'm in danger stress, but come on, moles, get on with it. Stress, love that, um. But frankly, I am most creative when I feel safe and and for me that comes with you know who I'm around, what environment I'm in, how much sensory input I'm getting, if that makes sense. And so when I feel like my whole system is safe and relaxed, then that's when I am most truly original and creative, also witty most truly original, creative, also witty.

Speaker 4: 3:50

yes, I can relate to that, like I relate to the piece about the deadline and the safety because, like I, I know about myself now that I do my best work when I am closer to the deadline, but I absolutely need space to do that. Like Like not 10 minutes before, like six, like two days or like have like a six hour chunk to just sort of sit with it. I can relate to that, yes, how about you, erica and Marla?

Speaker 2: 4:18

Um, it's interesting. When you first asked that question I went to time of day and then the way you answered it, it really got me thinking. In a similar fashion, I also think I'm most creative when I don't have the pressure of my to-do list sitting on top of me. Back to that time and space to be creative. So if we have a lot of deadlines for work, but our creative work, our creative work then suffers. But if we can meet those deadlines and I can create space to um to be original God, I love that word um. To be original, um, I need I know I need to have my emails cleaned out, my text messages answered. I need to not have anything on my plate weighing on me to be able to to be original and not just knock something out to knock something out.

Speaker 5: 5:18

I am always the most creative when I'm falling asleep, so I often will be falling asleep and then I have my notes app and I have will be falling asleep and then I have my notes app and I have to like get up and write something down. Other than that, I would say when I'm in my writing creativity, I'm very specific. I have to be sitting at this one table in my apartment, I have to light a candle and I have to put on Taylor Swift piano instrumental.

Speaker 4: 5:44

And I have to put on Taylor Swift piano instrumental oh like that.

Speaker 5: 5:50

It's like so routine. Yeah, it has to be like it can be any piano music, but that's just my favorite and I think it's because my brain is relaxed when I'm hearing something familiar. But yeah, so that is. That is my creative time and I need a deadline.

Speaker 1: 6:07

As you both know very well, deadline is huge, so well, one might argue that without the deadline, we are creative, just not focused. So the creative energy sort of spreads everywhere and we're creative at a lot of things, but not necessarily productive, which is something that we often associate right with well, pretty much everything but, um, the value of what we've created. But also, I noticed something immediately. All of us talked about feeling creative based on our environment, about creating an environment that actually nurtures us, and it's a bit like you know you have to be. We're all plants and in order to grow our flowers and seeds, we have to have the right pot and the right soil and the right amount of water and the right soil and the right amount of water, and and Erica mentioned needing to feel like she's completed her tasks to make that space for creativity.

Speaker 4: 7:12

Is that like? I mean, we all have that, Obviously, I resonated with that too. Is that like a trauma response, Like should we be working on our? Because I noticed when I, when I do get into creative flow, sometimes I'm like missing stuff, uh, but it's filling my cup and giving me energy to like do the other things, but I also have a hard time getting to that place without doing the to-do list things. Like. Do you have any thoughts on that?

Speaker 1: 7:52

Absolutely, actually two things. So first of all, for your question about it being a trauma response, I think certainly many of us are conditioned. I don't know if it's as much as a trauma as simply conditioning about, you know, prioritizing the urgent over the important, and this requires pure and simple discipline and, frankly, a little bit of self-awareness about which is which. And I think most of us don't get that lesson and I know that for myself. There are moments when I'm good at that and then the other moments when I'm awful. I just I keep bouncing around doing all these things and then having kind of nothing to show for it. So that's sort of the first part of it, and I think the other part is actually about clutter.

Speaker 1: 8:34

There's so many different kinds of clutter and these days we are so mentally, emotionally, intellectually, socially, spiritually cluttered. There's so much noise. It's great that we can all get online and share what we have to share. I love that, but it also means that there's no or little curation. Let's be honest, algorithms are not complete. They're not completely as reliable as, let's say, back in the day, you would listen to your favorite radio station and trust this one human being to decide for you what you should listen to.

Speaker 1: 9:17

And now we have to sort of sort through all of this. So I find that on the one hand, everything is available and kind of want everything. I find that on the one hand, everything is available and kind of want everything and on the other hand, again, it's about choosing, prioritizing what is actually nourishing and what is actually going to indeed rejuvenate or regenerate us versus what is simply noise or distraction. And I'm just want to also add here that I'm not a person who thinks that our lives should be so sterile that everything serves a purpose. I think it's so wonderful to lose ourselves, to meander, to waste time, you know, to actually enjoy just letting time pass and being present to whatever's happening in the moment. But I think in our modern life we suffer a little bit from these, finding the balance between the free time and the uh, focus time, I guess.

Speaker 2: 10:22

There's a lot of guilt. Again, you mentioned the word conditioning and I feel like there is a conditioning around this free time versus focus time and wasting time right, Especially for the high achievers and the folks that are running businesses or the parents that are trying to juggle it all wasting time. Time is our, is our most valuable currency, and so when you feel like you're wasting it, it's a negative, there's guilt, there's shame around it, um, and it's really hard to say okay, but this is actually good for me. Um, to waste time, and you have this unique perspective on women at work and I think this is this is going to dovetail really nicely into your rest to harvest philosophy. Can you tell us more about that?

Speaker 1: 11:17

Yes, absolutely. You know, rest to harvest a little insider story here actually started before the pandemic as an invitation for people to discover the power of doing nothing, and I guided group sessions where people would be invited to actually just surrender a little bit and just be present with each other and do nothing and let things emerge Right. And in a way, during the pandemic and you know the way that we all had to kind of cope in different ways I felt sort of wrong telling people how to spend the time that they were suck alone and in a way, rest to Harvest emerged as a way. That kind of connected me back to my inner nature. So we all have this inner nature. We're all born, we all have a seed of something essence within us. We all have a seed of something essence within us and just like every plant or animal has that too, right? So in one sense we're not so different and another we're a little more complex. And so I started to really explore this idea of what happens when you plant seeds and then just let yourself wait and relax and rest until something emerges. And you're not forcing it, you're not asking it, you're not telling it, you're just letting it tell you, you let it emerge and surprise you. Because actually, when we decide every outcome of every action ahead of time which we often call strategy we limit ourselves and our possibilities because we're limited by what we can imagine in this moment, before we even start acting.

Speaker 1: 13:28

And often the process of harvest comes from this sort of trust in our counterpart, in the universe, in nature, in the world. We're not alone. And yet, you know, we've crafted this idea of work which isolates us, an idea that I alone have to be creative and come up with the ideas, and it should be in my head. I just need to somehow reach in there and pull it out. But can you ever imagine planting a seed and then demanding that the plant? Like pull the plant out, you would uproot it, and that's what's happening.

Speaker 1: 14:07

Often we're not able to allow this deeper sense of creative energy to emerge, to let life take shape and to be sort of more of a gardener and a guide rather than an architect, I guess.

Speaker 1: 14:27

So for me, rest to harvest is an invitation for us to really tune inward into our own natural cycles and allow ourselves to flow with those cycles, so that we can actually make the most of our creative essence, that seed that's already within us, but that we often neglect to give the space, the right environment to emerge. So good yeah. And I specifically actually draw attention to women's cycles, because you know our hormonal cycle, which lasts approximately 28 days, or you know one moon cycle, is actually a great way to remind ourselves that we are nature. We're not just connected to nature, we are nature. We have cycles and rhythms. There is a increase and decrease, a rise and fall of energy within us, and to expect ourselves to constantly be on is actually eroding our inner fertility, and we can think of that in terms of our wombs as women, but we can also just think of that as our creative, creative energy as people, as humans.

Speaker 4: 15:56

If we all had the benefit of working in this rhythm, what would happen? And then, can you also define the rhythm a little more Like? Is there a time in our cycle when it when we are called to rest and a time when we are called to harvest?

Speaker 1: 16:18

Yeah, definitely so. Um, what I've observed in my own cycle and in my research is that, you know, in the first half, starting with when we get our period, our menstruation, we actually start to slowly rebuild, like to rebuild our, regenerate our inner fertility, right? So the two weeks at the beginning of our cycle, starting from menstruation, are this gentle increase in energy, and you've probably experienced it as a woman that around the time of your ovulation if you're aware of when that happens we literally have the most energy and the most creativity, the most vibrancy. Apparently, even our biology shifts so, like we get, our voice, changes in tone to make us more attractive. Our future has become more symmetrical. Again, to make us more attractive, because nature's only goal is to actually fertilize and create new life. Right, so it's helping us basically, yeah, but it actually means in a work context that we're better at sales, we're better at talking and networking and connecting. We're better at talking and networking and connecting. We're actually literally more magnetic, attractive, however you want to phrase it. And then after that, we have a more or less two-week period of decreasing energy, where our body prepares for well, if we have not been fertilized, it prepares for then a renewal, and renewal happens in winter. Right, we have renewal happens at night. Renewal happens when we go to sleep. It's just that our four-week cycle has a then sort of two-week period of lower energy. That's because all that energy is shifting inward to actually do the inner work for us, in a way. So all we need to do is give it the space to let it happen.

Speaker 1: 18:41

And during this time, on the one hand, we become very aware of any potential danger that might be coming our way, because we are actually biologically wired to sort of protect whatever seed might be growing inside us. But after that we also become much more inwardly tuned. So that's why, women, we've gotten this bad reputation for being cranky during our PMS week, but actually we are more in tune with ourselves and that means that we are less willing to put up with things that don't align, that don't feel safe, that don't feel true. And whenever we're in an environment which, unfortunately for us as women, we, I think, face way too often still in an environment that makes us feel somehow unsafe or unprotected in what we need, then somehow we have you know this this need to defend, to protect ourselves and our inner sort of part of life, right Vessel of life. So that's the cycle.

Speaker 1: 19:54

And the more that I tune inward to my cycle, of course our variables which are, by the way, great clues as to the level of stress or nutrition or whatever else might be out of whack for you. But the more I'm in tune with my own cycle, the more I'm able to be kind to myself at the times when I need it the most. And when I succeed in doing that which, by the way, don't always when I succeed in giving myself that space to slow down and tune inward and sort of let go and surrender to it and trust it. That's when I do my best writing, that's when I do my best creative work, because I'm so deeply connected to what's happening within me and that guides me and that guides me.

Speaker 1: 20:45

So it's almost like you know, I definitely identify as an ambivert, so half the time I'm an introvert and half the time in an extrovert. So basically, I'm an introvert in my you know, luteal phase, which is just before the period, and I am a bit of an extrovert as I approach my ovulation, ovulatory phase. And I think everyone's different, of course. But Rest and Harvest for me is about tuning inward to find out what is your up and down or rise and fall in energy? When are you best suited to doing certain kinds of work or rest or play, or activity or inactivity that's that really fulfills your potential and are you journaling along the way like do you have a suggestion for those of us who want to start tracking that more intentionally?

Speaker 1: 21:51

Yes, oh, that's wonderful, yeah. So over time I have developed more and more tools and tricks to kind of keep track of this. So it started very simply with, you know, an app that let me track my moon cycle, my menstruation cycle, and you know, at first it's just sort of fun to see also, oh, when is my cycle wavering and what might've affected it. So yeah, so I had all these apps that helped me sort of just be curious and track the wavering cadence of my cycle, and you know it's interesting to see statistics and data at first. But over time my way of tracking this has become much, much more integrated into my daily life.

Speaker 1: 22:43

So, for example, in my calendar I at first started with literally only putting you know the day that I expected my period, and this more often and just be more open. So it actually is a period tracker in my, like phase tracker in my calendar. So I literally mark the days when I expect to be in my luteal phase and my menstrual phase, in my ovulatory phase and in my follicular phase, so that when I plan something I already know what my energy level is going to be and that way I can actually manage my energy much better, because, you know, the world doesn't yet subscribe to my personal cycle, unfortunately, but at least I can kind of plan my own energy around it, wow. So, for example, when I had my TED Talk, I was really lucky because both the rehearsal and the actual stage talk happened during my ovulation, which is like the prime moment for it, incredible.

Speaker 4: 24:11

How about any unique insights for working mothers related to rest, to harvest?

Speaker 1: 24:20

Yes. Well, let me just preface by saying I am not a mother in the traditional sense. I have a cat baby. People who don't have my cat underestimate the amount of energy, I'm sure.

Speaker 1: 24:34

However, not not at all to take away from the the sheer strength and resilience it takes to be a working mom. So, first of all, kudos to all, each one of you who do that. However, I will say this that you know again, aligning with my cycle and whatever yours might be, there are moments when and maybe, erica, you're going to resonate with this a little bit Are there moments in your cycle where you actually feel more the need to organize your space around you Because we get in a nesting kind of mode. There are phases in our cycle where we need that more, because we're creating that sense of safety that allows us to relax and actually do creative work. Because I just want to remind us that creativity is a dangerous endeavor. No, because being creative means you have to go against the grain. You have to create something that's unknown and, especially if it's got any kind of social context, it means that you are risking not being accepted by your tribe, your human support, community, right, and so to be creative requires us to actually go outside of our comfort zone. In order to do that, we might need to make certain parts of ourselves feel more comfortable To support ourselves in stepping out onto the ledge in a certain way, right. So if you just sort of are completely on the ledge, then you're pretty much reckless and self-destructive. Being creative is not that, but it is about taking a risk.

Speaker 1: 26:34

So I think that when it comes to being a working mom, you know, of course the biological imperative again is to create safety for our children, make sure that they're okay, prioritize them, because I think once you're a parent, you know you're actually become sort of irrelevant. It's like all about biologically speaking. It's like all about the offspring, it's all about the seed that's walking out of your body and into the future now. And I think that when we, as working moms, want to be creative or creatively productive, I think it's really important to make sure we know what makes us feel safe and supported, and there are some things that we can do for ourselves and there are other things that we need support on externally right. There are other things that we need support on externally right, whether that's from our family, our spouse, our coworkers or even the people we might employ or, you know, whether it's someone who's supporting you in your housekeeping, or a coach or a personal trainer. So I think we have to start thinking more and more as an ecosystem. We have to start thinking of our lives as an ecosystem, and that means that you might have to get a little comfortable with the discomfort of talking about where you are in your cycle.

Speaker 1: 28:02

And again, this doesn't have to relate to your menstrual cycle. I just think that that's a really and again, this doesn't have to relate to your menstrual cycle. I just think that that's a really helpful starting point. For example, perhaps you know people who don't have a menstrual cycle anymore are also listening to this. I would say it's. We still have an inner cycle. It might be shorter, it might be longer, it might be affected by other things in your life right, but it's all about tuning inward and finding out when is it that we need the most support and how do we give ourselves that so that we can nourish and regenerate our potential for fertility and fertility is any kind of productivity answer.

Speaker 4: 28:53

I'm seeing like a red thread through a lot of this and into something that this intuitive coach that several of us work with we talked about recently, which was creating the almost like.

Speaker 4: 29:13

Okay, so we talk a lot about masculine and feminine and, um, for me, I had to do a lot of work and continue to do a lot of work to like be in my feminine, and there's certain things that need to be in place, like I need to feel safe to be in in my feminine and that's like my most nurturing and my best self.

Speaker 4: 29:38

We recently went on a creative endeavor, started a new creative endeavor, and she was helping me through some things with it, and she suggested that I need to bring a little bit of the masculine to like, create the structure so that I could be in the feminine and be in the creativity and be in the moment. In between, I'm a visual person, so I'm creating like a box and then sort of like flowing on the inside. And I feel that in parenthood too, like if we create the structure and processes and routines and don't have to worry about that. We're all sort of aligned on that, which doesn't always happen, but it can allow for that sort of like just being feeling into things, being creative, getting on the floor, you know, like being with your kids, knowing that like there's a start and end Because I at least I have a capacity issue sometimes with that but there is a structure, but then we can be sort of be within that in a safe way.

Speaker 2: 30:47

Yes.

Speaker 1: 30:49

I love that you're bringing this up, because I was literally thinking about this in the shower today. Um, another very good place for creativity, of course, by the way, because you're free of everything but your own thoughts. Yeah, so, backstory, I used to get a lot of input, feedback, that, and I also that I needed to be more in my feminine and that you know sometimes that my masculine was too strong, and basically that I have realized that that just means that people feel like you're too pushy or demanding, or rigid.

Speaker 4: 31:38

I mean we needed to show up that way in a lot of ways, I think, in the workplace.

Speaker 1: 31:44

Exactly, and not just in the workplace. You know, I think our generation, while I think it's great that we're all exploring our mental health and healing, taking ownership of our healing journeys, um, I think that psychology might be doing us all a bit of a disservice by sort of making it seem as if there's a problem to solve here. Ultimately, another word for creativity is actually adaptability, and the reason that we as human beings are so resilient is because we're adaptable. We are incredibly adaptable, so we adapt, and you know so many of us had parents who were trying to give us everything. Adapt. And you know so many of us had parents who were trying to give us everything and in the process, they neglected to give us some of the things that we needed emotionally or you know, on some other plane, which they couldn't think about because they never needed those things, they never had the privilege of needing those things. So, yeah, I think a lot of us develop to support ourselves by creating structures and ways that we do things that would take away the decision making, because actually, decision making is literally the most energy intensive work that we can do as human beings and, you know, as women we have this problem where, on the one hand, we want to simplify our lives, but, on the other hand, fashion is important to express ourselves Like. Men have it so easy. They just put on a black t-shirt and jeans every day and they call it a day. You know we can't do that. That's not okay. And they call it a day. You know we can't do that. That's not okay.

Speaker 1: 33:29

Luckily, I believe that we have the capacity to make many more decisions on a daily basis, and I think we do as women, and even more so, I think, once we activate our mom gene. And so, because decision-making is so energy intensive, I think we as women especially, but I think it applies to everybody who wants to have, you know, impact or have or have aspirations or do things that are a little bit out of their reach, the creative energy is actually essentially feminine. It's playful, it's unpredictable, it's even chaotic at times, but the masculine energy of structure actually creates a predictability, actually creates a support system for the creative energy to flow, to play, to be safe, to be a little bit contained Because, as we started out with you know you're still being creative. It's just not focused. It's just creative in so many directions that, at the end of the day, you sort of feel like you have nothing to show for it. Right? It's a bit like again going back to plant analogy, because it's just so simple. I mean actually taking this plant right next to me.

Speaker 1: 34:44

I don't know if any of you are familiar with the monstera. The reason it's called monstera is because it grows like a monster. It's actually really easy to let it grow, but it's only when you give it the structure of this support to grow up along and tie it to that. That's when you get to see the beauty of the leaves. But as long as it's not tied against a structure, basically the leaves grow in every which way and they kind of keep drooping downward and the plant looks like not just a mess, it just looks lost. It looks wild in a. It looks wild in a. It looks wild in a way that completely you miss its aesthetic beauty, because it's aesthetic beauty is is revealed when it's placed against a little bit of this structure which holds the leaves up.

Speaker 1: 35:40

I started my professional life as a designer branding and communication design and honestly I think that that nurtured the balance between my masculine and my feminine energies, so therapeutic as just sitting and organizing information and sort of giving it the space to breathe and to be seen and understood, much like this stick that supports my plant, but then, within that, adding the aesthetic beauty, the emotion, so that that data, that information, that communication turned into an experience. That information, that communication turn into an experience, and I think that each one of us has the potential to find that it's not even a balance it's about, it's a symbiosis right Between the masculine energy that supports the feminine energy to express itself in a way that is again, I'll say the same words again safe and supported and actually shows off its most beautiful aesthetic qualities and then turns information into an experience, an emotional experience.

Speaker 2: 37:03

So good. So technology is spurring this change from manual and physical to mental and emotional. What is required of us as this happens, when it comes to this self-work and emotional work?

Speaker 1: 37:27

I love that question. Actually, I think it's a great practical application of the masculine and the feminine, so we can use technology to create those systems and structures that then allow us more space to play. To put it quite simply simply, we're not doing that right now because we're competing with the technology, we're trying to keep up with it, we're trying to do to be one step ahead of it, instead of actually using it in a way that supports us and allows us to tap into our creative feminine energy, to sort of just dance around and go everywhere a little bit and then have the technology make sense of all of that and kind of pull it back together, directed in a in a particular direction. Perhaps our technology is just not it's there yet. But I do feel that the reason also technology has taken the shape that it's taken is because work has been male dominated for so long.

Speaker 1: 38:35

Right, the current structures of work originated in military structures. It's actually about, you know, a very sort of singular focus, idea, productivity, um, of actually creating safety and support, but one that's kind of forgotten why they were doing it. It's a bit like you know that lovely quote. I don't know if it's true, but the anecdote goes that, you know um, during the war somebody asked, asked Churchill, like well, should we cut funds from the arts so that we have more money to, you know, build the army? And he says, well then, but what are we fighting for?

Speaker 1: 39:18

Yeah yeah, more and more that you know, and in a very basic sense.

Speaker 1: 39:24

By the way, can I just remind us that back back back in the day, men went out to fight, and, and and find food in order to support the woman and their future child or their existing family.

Speaker 1: 39:40

Right, that's the basis on which we have been building. Of course, technology has allowed all of us, no matter which gender or which role we choose to express ourselves, to create, to contribute not just to society but to our collective human world, and the way that we contribute has changed, has a. This has broadened, has diversified. So, you know, it doesn't matter what gender you're born into. You can choose whichever role you want. And whichever role you want whether that's sort of you know in the background, sort of at home, keeping things running, whether you take that literally or metaphorically, or the people who are out front, you know performing, creating, leading and everything in between. I think that we are now finally free to choose the role that most suits us. Ideally, we're getting there, and that means that we need to use our tools and our structures differently. We need to probably redesign them a little bit so that more people can offer their best potential contribution to our collective.

Speaker 4: 41:02

So I think technology allows all of us to tap into our much needed feminine energy of creativity and, if we use it well, you've invited men into this conversation as well and um pose the question what would happen if men were free to explore their emotions without being labeled as weak or incompetent? Tell us more about this.

Speaker 1: 41:28

Yes. So, continuing just from what I've just said, I mean building on that that's exactly what I see that there are so many men today who don't subscribe to the military grade, you know, idea like in the army. Everyone has to kind of look and act the same because it's about the collective effort. The collective effort is shifting gears now, or has already shifted. We just need to kind of catch up with this. But the collective effort has to be diversified.

Speaker 1: 42:04

It cannot be so singular, and there's so many men who would rather play a different role than the one that's been prescribed to them. And so I think that, similar but different to women, if they also receive the safety and support to explore and express who they are, what they feel, how they want to express that, we would all benefit so much from it. And, by the way, maybe the reason that historically there have been, you know, poets and chefs and artists who are all men, is because those were ways for men to express parts of themselves that were not otherwise sort of acceptable in in the working, productive society. It just so happens that you know, because men, because we live in a patriarchal system, that even those roles were given to men rather than women being allowed to play those roles and be recognized for that.

Speaker 4: 43:12

Yeah, this is such an interesting continuation of a conversation we had recently with michael perry, where we were exploring whether men feel fear or like resistance to show up in their sort of humanity rather than just bringing home the bacon or you know um harvesting, or hunter, hunter, gatherer, like now. You know there's a space for their humanity and the women are also hunter gatherers and you know we're all sort of learning how to play all the roles, because that is what's happened. I, I think like 80% of um two parent households. Both are working, uh, so it is sort of a. Both are working, uh, so it is sort of a is just such an interesting um topic that I want to continue to explore. Um, we are coming up on time, so I guess I just want to ask a final question, which is what is your favorite tool to support you in rest to harvest right now?

Speaker 1: 44:35

That's such a great question and you know, I say this as a hyper independent, solopreneur, single woman at the age of 41, it's actually other people. Yeah, community, it's other people. You're not people not alone. Yes, it's community, it's friendship. Frankly, it's even the strangers that you meet along the way. Right, it's like you know the barista and, uh, the tram conductor and the person at the grocery store if you actually get one, you know. So it's other people, like, for example, take this conversation, for example.

Speaker 1: 45:12

I mean, all of this stuff is in me, but it's your beautiful questions that has allowed some things that I know but I've never expressed to emerge in that specific way. You are, together with me, creating this environment within which you're allowing my seeds to germinate right, I think this is also why, in today's world, coaching has become more and more important is because, actually, I think we're realizing that we all need that support and, more importantly, we can't always get it from our existing friends and family, because people may not be equipped to support us in the way that we most need. So my favorite way is literally just to talk to people. We're all connected, yeah, and, by the way, I just want to share that, you know. So, as part of what I'm offering for rest to harvest, I actually design and facilitate and eventually teach others how to create circles, and I want to share what I do with you so that you can think about creating it for yourselves. So a circle is simply a group of people who sit together with a shared commitment, choice, decision to create space for the darker, more sensitive parts of ourselves that maybe don't get seen or heard in our daily life. So we sit together, we set some intentions of how we're going to hold space, we set some intentions around how we're going to create safety and compassion for ourselves and each other.

Speaker 1: 46:56

And then we start by creating a little bit of stillness, just a bit of doing nothing together, and we let whatever's coming into our minds and hearts come. We just sort of let it flow in. And then we pair up or, in groups of threes, we sort of ask each other some questions. A simple question can be what is it that you most need right now? And we give ourselves and each other the space to really delve into this deeper and deeper. And then we share it in the larger group and we agree not to do anything to solve anything that comes up. We just let it rest in the trust. That letting it rest is sort of giving that seed a space to germinate into that we most need. It's about developing trust in each other. It's about allowing ourselves to feel safe in how we feel together with each other. And it's also about allowing the unseen parts of ourselves, the dark side of the moon. Exploring that and realizing that that's what makes us whole.

Speaker 4: 48:15

Beautiful and showing up in our humanity and accepting others.

Speaker 1: 48:19

It's like practicing showing up as human and accepting others, showing up as human as well, showing up as human and accepting others, showing up as human as well, yeah, Showing up without having to have something to show for it being not not valuing our, our, our gathering in productivity.

Speaker 2: 48:43

It's so good, the not needing to fix something. It's just in us to want to fix the not needing to fix something. It's just in us to want to fix. Um, and I I really appreciate the concept of just being and not needing to fix it. It's, it's happening and you don't need to fix it. Um, amazing, this was such an enlightened conversation. I'm sorry it has to end and we are so grateful for your time. Um, we're going to go ahead and link your lovely TEDx talk in our show notes. Everybody has access to it, but please tell us where else can our listeners learn more from you?

Speaker 1: 49:16

Great. Thank you so much. Yes, my TEDx is a great starting point. You can also just go to rest2harvestcom, and it's also a work in progress. It's emerging, but I would love to have anyone who is interested in staying with me for the journey sign up for my mailing list. It also will bring you basically to my website, mul3.com, and luckily I have a very unique name. So if you forget rest to harvest for some reason, um, if you know how to spell my name, m O U L S A R I. I'm very easy to find on the internet and you know, like I said, I love talking to people. That's where I get my creativity. So I'd love to hear from anyone who's listening, or any of you if you want to talk about this and talk about what makes you creative, or or simply give each other some space to feel safe.

Speaker 2: 50:14

Amazing. Thank you so much for being here.

Speaker 1: 50:19

Thank you. Thank you so much. It's really been a pleasure and an honor and I love what you're doing here, so congratulations and keep doing it, oh likewise Thank you.

Speaker 2: 50:33

All right, until next time.