spk_0:   0:00
I am ready to start doing this whenever you are.

spk_1:   0:02
I was born ready and we do a fist bump. I would wear the fence Fist bump came from. She's looking me like she doesn't know either

spk_0:   0:13
It's yours, I e the one who should know.

spk_1:   0:15
It's salty and spice risk. Just start right in. We're back on the road again. Part two You got be honest for the reasons that we get along So we split it into two parts. The other reason is I was lunchtime and we had reached Mount Pleasant. So we stopped in and handle lunch. You're not pleasant, Know, Back on the road, going towards our destination for today subject of the podcast is again by arms and women and we have few more things we wanted to talk about. So let's get to it.

spk_0:   0:47
Because as soon as we signed off from the last one, I thought, Oh, I wanted to say something about training.

spk_1:   0:53
Go for it

spk_0:   0:54
because guys I honor and respect your wish to help the women in your life learn to shoot and be safe with guns. And I earnestly hope you will do that by finding a woman who is good with it and strong and has the right mental attitude and letting her teach your woman to shoot a gun if your female companion doesn't already know how. Because honestly, gentlemen, you can get a little paternalistic when you're teaching about firearms. And it is a general trait of men to want to take care of and protect and fix things for their women. In many situations, that is a really admirable trade. But people learning is struggle. You want to learn something new, to really learn it best, you're gonna have to struggle with it. You're gonna have to sit and work things through your mind. You're gonna have to pick up the gun and look at it. And remember when you haven't handled it for a while exactly how this particular one works and it's really detrimental to that process. If the first time you pause and start thinking it over, somebody jumps in with the answer for you and men want to do that. Teachers in general want to do that, and people who learn to teach have to train themselves not to do that toe. Let people struggle to get the real learning experience. And the more a guy cares about the woman he's trying to teach, the more likely he is to do it because he wants to fix things for her good trade most of the time, bad trade when you're trying to learn. Also, there's the role model thing. There is a perception out there very widespread that guns were a guy thing, and that makes a lot of women less likely to want to be interested in him to want a firearm toe. Wanna learn about him? You name it. So when you find a woman who does like him and is a good shot at, really knows what she's doing, that not only makes it easier for a woman to get into it mentally, but it also lets her see Yeah, no, that's That's a strong, empowered women. Yeah, I'm gonna stick into that toe liberal. Speak there because that's really what it boils down to. In this case, that's a woman who knows how to take care of herself. That's a woman who understands what it's like to go out for a walk alone at night and be thinking about who else might be on the street with her who might randomly want to jumper. She knows about it. She's been there. She knows how to take care of herself. She's not in it because of ego or because its firepower, and she's fascinated by the ability to do violence. But I'm just saying that kind of woman makes a good role model, and it helps a woman see that it's not about being aggressive or unfeminine or anything else. It's about being competent and being strong and being able to protect yourself and not being a victim. And all of those things feel pretty darn great when you're a woman.

spk_1:   3:53
And, of course it's also about being safe, being empowered. And again, we hate to use the liberal war but being empowered through the ability to disassemble and maintain your own equipment and reassemble it and no backwards and forwards how it works and why it works. But learning that because it's of the importance of it from somebody who can relate to where you're coming from because they had to learn the same thing.

spk_0:   4:22
What I'm helping another woman learned to shoot. I am comfortable with letting her struggle over lots of pieces of it But if there's a safety problem, I'm going to jump in and say something right away and got to make it clear why I'm saying something, and that balance of things works well. But I think that balance is harder to get to between a man and a woman. Because, frankly, the balance of power there feels different. A woman teaching a woman feels more peer to peer than a man teaching a woman to shoot just because it's perceived as a guy thing.

spk_1:   4:53
Sorry if it's getting a little noisy here, the we're stuck next to a truck which were going about the same speed they are, and we're passing speed bird. I

spk_0:   5:04
hear they have a new goat out its feet. Make a giant stuffed goat every year.

spk_1:   5:09
She even goat. Really? No, Let's call anyway. It's the home of the national Swedish Museum, or something like that is like sweet American with has a lot of people in the town, and they have the Swedish museum. It's kind of cool goes feed word. Swedberg. Yeah, so cool. Inward. We're out of speed work already, so I mean, it's a very small place, anyway. It's and I passed the truck, so hopefully that would be, um that wouldn't have been too noisy. Now, I do have a couple of comparisons, and I'm gonna throw about there I am. A grabber. Duer grabber. Duer. Okay, Yeah, I stutter when I when

spk_0:   5:49
he stutters when he's teaching you something, we'll take it from your hands and show you how to do it

spk_1:   5:54
just like this. It's the truth. Like a job. Just let me do it.

spk_0:   5:58
No, let me figure it out.

spk_1:   6:01
So, Yeah, well, this is something that we between the two of us struggle with, because wait, but we both know that's how I am. So we'll back years and years and years ago I bought her a car. Okay, this was back in the day. It was a good deal, and we were so broke. It's not Frankly,

spk_0:   6:19
it was the only car we could afford. And I needed to start a new job

spk_1:   6:23
and has this car had to go say, an hour's worth of driving a day. Okay, so we needed something that was fairly economical to buy, Obviously, cause we're broke, but we needed something that would be economical to run. And I found the perfect car. Little Honda Civic worked great. Only thing was, it was a standard transmission which I

spk_0:   6:44
couldn't drive. It's time

spk_1:   6:45
which she'd never driven. I had I learned how to drive on a standard transmission three on the tree, Ford 1963 4 pickup truck. Which, by the way, I hear is still actually running that truck is anyway. So she did not s o. I tried to teach her how to drive. We went around the block a couple times and it was not. It was just It was not good. She was upset and mad. I was upset in man. We don't We don't ever yell at each other. We just don't. But this was a close we ever came to both go, you know, I mean, really it iss and we were sitting there glaring at each other.

spk_0:   7:24
If it had been a gun, not have never shot another one. But I had to get to work the next day. So Plan B

spk_1:   7:31
and actually our friend came by and she's looking like what's wrong? And so we told her and here I got this. So she give me a few minutes so she went back and she got on that. She went out and got another friend and came back both women. And we were, like, really, really close friends over France. You know, casual friends came back and they're like, OK, girl trip. I'll teach you how to drive this. You go in the house. Like what? You know how to drive. Should I? Of course. I'm a farm girl. Of course I know how to drive a standard transmission vehicle. Go in the house, go get get your mail self out of here and which she came back. The car still had a clutch in it. And you know how to drive a standard transmission. In fact, to this day she prefers. Yeah,

spk_0:   8:18
got to work successfully the next day. And it's been fine ever since. And I killed that car 50 times that day, learning how to do it and then learning how to do it up hills and then learning how to recover, as if there was traffic behind me. There wasn't because of a little bitty town we live in. But they were okay with giving me the instruction I needed and then just laugh in the rest of the his girl trip there, laughing with me, not at me. It felt fine. Worked much better. It was girl time. And I have helped other woman to shoot women to shoot the same way.

spk_1:   8:52
The second thing is, um, this is something that I learned she may already known it, but this is something I learned really from our were divers. Okay? And we're technical diapers. It's all really going to say about it, you know, because it's kind of a small community, but we're technical divers. And in learning to become a technical diver, there's a lot of training. I have more see cards, which is a certification cards. I do. We could play poker with the number of C cards I have in my collection, okay? And she's got a whole bunch of C carts to I have more, but she has I totally beside the point. I just went out to see how many pick up a board. So anyway, long story short, you know, we do a lot of training and one of the things that we chose when we started out well, she wanted to dive. I had no, which I could even swim, all right. She wanted to die. So we started out and I looked around to every place that was in the area around us, anywhere around us to find out the best training program. I found an instructor that I talked to several times interviewed guys as good as just He's still a guy we we deal with many, many years later

spk_0:   10:07
and said new divers to

spk_1:   10:08
sit and we sit new divers, too, because we believed in what he was doing in his training. So she has the training. And then I realized that, you know, a lot of people who were taking diving training where yahoos and I did not want her to get into a diving situation with the Yahoo as a partner, could you go his buddies and

spk_0:   10:29
this would be like the equivalent of having to people with guns going into a house to clear a house. And the guy behind you is an idiot who doesn't know not to sweep you with his barrel five twenties going through doors. That's what it's like to dive off a dive boat with a buddy who doesn't know what they're doing.

spk_1:   10:50
So I actually learned how to swim to Fern have to dive, which was a totally different experience and all. It's not podcast worthy, but so anyway, so we became diaper and then we advance advance advance, advance. But getting back to the getting back to the core of the thing. If they're teaching the right way, they teach everybody to do their own gear. Always, our instructor would always break up husband wife teams because if he didn't the man generally. And I'm not trying to be sexist, But it's true. The man generally becomes responsible for putting all the gear together, and it is critically important that every diver do their own gear, because if something bad happens, the hat You have to know how to fix this at depth or your life is in danger

spk_0:   11:48
when everybody has to be able to take care of themselves. You don't want one person dependent on the other because they've always trained with them and they expect him to be there. He broke up husband, his wives. He broke up kids and parents, yes, so that everybody would learn to dive safely and learning how to shoot works very much the same way.

spk_1:   12:11
Yeah, I mean, I personally, I taught her how to shoot. He just simply because she is a very reasonable level headed person. Okay? And we've gone through many, many years of training each other to do all kinds of stuff. We know how each other things. We've each trained each other in all kinds of different things for many years, and so it really wasn't that big a deal. But basically, I taught her the safety aspects of it. I taught her the mechanics of the weapons and basically self taught the rest of it. I

spk_0:   12:46
go to the range by myself to do my fiddling and struggling and starting down the wrong paths and figuring it out, starting down the right path because it would drive me crazy if he was trying to step in and fix it every time I went wrong to really learn it, I need to struggle and need to figure it out.

spk_1:   13:04
Now we're probably to the point. We're both of us need to go to an actual firearms instructor to get better, because I'm sure we've trained Neither one of us are instructors. We don't pretend to be. We probably trained some bad habits into ourselves. I know she really struggles with double tapping. She's really struggled. It's I'm sure it's technique. But even if I knew how to fix it, I am not the person future. And I know this, and that's that's just something we wanted to bring forward is, you know, finding appropriate way for your loved one to learn. Don't assume that you're it. In fact, they might develop a much stronger love for it. If you totally hands off Jack next, what was your next topic of conversation there?

spk_0:   13:52
The mentality of shooting go for it. This is mostly about aggression, and this one is biology, and I'm a science person, so I'm comfortable on this on this ground. The testosterone just does make people more aggressive. It does so. The mentality of shooting is a little bit different between men and women when it comes down to actually pulling the trigger on another person. I haven't hit anybody in anger since I was eight years old, and I probably never will again. I expect, never aim a gun at another human being, but if I do, I will probably shoot them. But it's not about aggression. It's about defense. I'm not aiming a gun at somebody unless I feel a clear and present danger, either to me or to somebody else who is incapable of defending themselves. That's what it would take to make me shoot. And that's a whole different mindset than shooting because of an emotional reason. So visualization is one of the things I think is critical in learning how to deal with the troubling situations. I used it a lot during die of training, did sort out how Thio deal with situations I never hoped face there and to figure out how to train to deal with situations like that. And I believe that is useful in the shooting training, too. You go there with the mindset of I'm not doing this because I want it. I want to shoot this person. I'm doing this because I have the right and the need to defend. And if that person chooses to make me take that kind of defense, well, then I will. Otherwise they turn and walk away. They're good. So learning to practice that mindset, as well as practising physical skills of handling a gun, will help you be there when you need it.

spk_1:   15:44
Yeah, I think a lot of a lot of guys, really from a guy. This is different. This is not how ah guy thinks, you know, we understand that aggression is part of what is is built into us. We get that. But that's not how women think. And that's good because there's far too much aggression going on from us males. That's where you know the murder rate is so high because of it. And again, I'm not some some liberal, namby pamby. No, I mean, that's not what I'm. That's not where I'm coming from. This isn't This isn't from a that point of view it all,

spk_0:   16:23
and women can be quite aggressive. It's it's just, the average is lower and there's no sense and pretend that it's not so. If you approach it with a mindset that's appropriate for a woman, then you're more likely to deal with situations successfully as a woman than trying to deal with it from a mindset. That's not where you're coming from.

spk_1:   16:42
Sorry if the road noise is picking up, who's, Ah, horrible road we're on. Sorry about that. But sometimes when you live in little places, you have to go down little roads. It's part of part of what it is. This is well off a refugee line of drift. We're gonna come back to those We're gonna talk about bug outs because I'm a firm believer in staying away from refugee lines of drift. She's not so much of a fan of the concept as I am, but anyway, pressing right along basically, if you want to get laughed, I'll tell you how you want to get laughed at around my wife. You want to get laughed at. If you want to get mocked and you will be ma, I guarantee you. Did you come around her all mall ninja? Okay,

spk_0:   17:26
I know of no better way to turn off most of the woman shooters I know then googling over every technical specifications in and modification and add on end make this gun sexier attachment. It's totally not my groove. And it's not the groove of the other woman shooters I know. So that's not probably the way to try and and grab a woman shooters interest or to make her feel comfortable and welcome in the shooting world.

spk_1:   17:58
The Mollen just Of course, I'll mock you, too, I mean, I'm not. If you go back and you read my piece, you know, you don't have to be a, uh, super survivalist type person. Go back and read that if you haven't read it. So it's a It's a fun little piece, but it's so much true in the fact that you know, you don't need the moment. You think it's just to know, Okay, it just really is. Just stay away from that stuff. In my opinion, unless you really want to be mocked, I'm not saying that you shouldn't have tactical things. That's fine. I got tactical. I know she's got tackled, you know, you talk about the mall interesting. Well, she she has the mall Ninja rifle of all moment. Right before is this is Mullen JIA's you can get and hers is even in black. I mean, how could you get me more mall ninja than Ah, I guess you could put on a cog on it instead of ah, attack and maybe a little bit more edgy on. And obviously you could start mounting whites and lasers all kinds of fraud that you don't need on a perfectly good firearm do that.

spk_0:   19:10
But I'd phase out into the conversation 30 seconds into it if you started talking about it. I like the rifle because I like the way it shoots. And it suits the job I needed to do. And that's sufficient.

spk_1:   19:23
So putting a bunch of stuff on the front of it that would add weight and screw up the balance would probably help you.

spk_0:   19:31
No, but I noticed a lot of guys, especially it ranges and stuff. That's the stuff. They end up talking about a lot, and it even tends to make me think, Well, this isn't my crowd. Not much. Rather go and shoot with people who are interested in developing their skills. For example,

spk_1:   19:48
guy, guys like this and girls. Girls liked you, but they have their own. They have their own places, their own. I don't know about that. I know. Guys, come on. The guy I

spk_0:   19:55
won't tell you Lose man points.

spk_1:   19:56
Yeah. I don't want you don't lose any man points, man. Points. Keeping my man points up is an important thing. Is we all know that, guys, you know these guys, if you go to the gym, there's these guys to go to the gym with Jimmy and we got We got water to guide Star Jim. You walk in there and you have these bags. You know, the baggy gym bags with all your stuff and these gym bag are absolutely just sounds like I'm exaggerating, but there's one guy carries, like five or six gallon sized char's of nutritional supplements to the gym. Five or six of a one bag. I was just looking at you go, Whoa! You know, and they're all the guys will stand around. Oh,

spk_0:   20:35
yeah, they'll talk about what they're taken and they'll admire each other's products and they'll talk about the strengths of it. And I'm a person with some knowledge in that field, and it's just all I can do to go over to say, You know, guys, really, this is not the place to be drinking those. You need to be hitting those when you go home. If it all, they just look silly to me. And if I thought going to the gym was about being like that, I would be out of there in a flash. It's not. It's about being able to walk upright. One on 80.

spk_1:   21:05
This is a guy thing. Okay? This is not a girl, for this is not a woman thing. They have their own things. But this is not that. So you know, you're not going to probably impress a woman by rattling off mall ninja stats about any gun. They don't care. That's not what it's about. So we're just just just a little bit of advice from us to you that yeah, maybe you don't wanna do that.

spk_0:   21:32
See how it fits their hands, See how it fits their need and see how it fits their psyche. Recoil. I come back to requite recalls a big thing. I'm not very afraid of it, but I know a lot of women. I've mentioned shooting, too. That seems to be an issue with him.

spk_1:   21:50
She has. She has a group of friends that she shoots with your women. They're fairly I don't want to say aggressive does not aggressive, but they're fairly rough and tumble crowd. But none of them are in any way afraid of nine millimeter 3 57 308 None of you know these these these women are not afraid. But when they bring in a friend to help her learn

spk_0:   22:16
we have 22

spk_1:   22:20
because that's that. That's where you start

spk_0:   22:22
A lot of times, guys, you also don't realize the difference mass makes. I have seen guys firing from a particular squatting kind of firing position handed me the rifle. I shot the very same way, rolled over onto my back. Good thing I'd pulled my finger off the trigger and I was safe about it. But hey, that much kick when you weigh £120 instead of £300 makes a big difference, so it's really not the same.

spk_1:   22:50
But there's no reason that a woman can't fire a gun from a prone position. She needs to do it from the right prone position with right kneeling position for her, and that just may not be the same as it is for you.

spk_0:   23:02
It also means we're less able to get away with bad technique when we're firing rifles with bigger calibers, right? I don't tend to get beat up when I fire the rifles with bigger calibers, but I'm very careful about how I do it because I know if I held that thing back off my shoulder and let it buck into my shoulder. It could easily dislocate my shoulder where a guy might just say our and move on

spk_1:   23:25
is going to bring me the one more point about the actual firearms themselves. I think there's a lot of now. Probably most of you were listening to this podcast. Most of you, we're listening. This podcast realize that guns are tools and you used the right tool for the right job, and one tool is not. There is not one tool that will do everything. You realize that there's a place for a shotgun. There's a place for handgun. There's a place for a small caliber handgun. There's a place for a high powered rifle. There's a place for a for a, uh, rim fire rifle.

spk_0:   24:02
Yeah, I don't like 40 fives, but if I'm going into bear country, I'm carrying a 45

spk_1:   24:06
or bigger. Actually, she's going into. If she were going into Bear country, she would be carrying a 10 millimeter clock, which we don't own. But she would be carrying a 10 millimeter Glock because it's the same exact manual arms of what she's used to say basic feel, but just a much bigger, more powerful round anyway, I'm sorry. I didn't mean that, but yeah, we don't live in bear country, so it's not a big deal, and we're probably not wander around their country anytime soon. You way better go by. I guess I better go by millimeter anyway. Yeah. Yeah. There we go. No, but my point being, a lot of people think Oh, this is our gun. This is our shotgun. This is our hunting rifle. This is our in gun. I'm

spk_0:   25:00
gonna tell you. Maybe not. That's maybe not the way you wanna

spk_1:   25:03
play it. If you could afford it. Now, this is all about money. I mean, you know, if you can't afford more than 11 is better than none. If you could only afford one, you probably want to go the most first the way you can. I get that. That makes sense. But if money is not, if you couldn't manage to have Maur than one firearm one for each person, for example, realize that you should buy Not necessarily what you like, but get her what she likes. Because if she likes it, she'll fire it. And you got to fire what you owe. You gotta fire. What you t have any chance at all of being good with it in a emergency situation,

spk_0:   25:47
anything you need in an emergency, you should have practiced with a lot.

spk_1:   25:51
Now, the thing is, you buy a nine millimeter, right? And a lot of people You get this, I tell ya to get 22 2 similar, and I'll shoot the 22. I do that right, But you still gotta shoot the gun that you're going to use his self defense. You just got to do it in a lot of the expense of what you gun ownership is frankly, put the rounds down range. If she doesn't like the gun, if it doesn't fit her, if it isn't comfortable for her to fire you shoot it.

spk_0:   26:20
And I'm not as good a shot with guns that don't fit my hand. Ah, lot of times the finger grips are set for a larger hand than mine. So holding something in my hand and getting my finger to the right place on the trigger is enough of a stretch that it's difficult to handle a gun safely. My hands perfectly strong for it. They're just not big enough. So see what fits ran.

spk_1:   26:42
So we're gonna be done. We'll catch you the next time we have a a bunch of different topics coming up. We're gonna have more on the place. We're gonna have Maur on gardening and permaculture. We're gonna have some on first aid and emergency training. We're gonna have a lot we've got We've got tons and tons of plans, so bear with us if you want to help us. Look, we don't We don't We don't want your money, Okay? We're not asking for money. We don't sell anything. If

spk_0:   27:08
we mentioned products here, it's not because we have any financial link to the company's at all other than we've been customers.

spk_1:   27:14
That's right. So if you want to help us spread the word post this on the forum to go to post us wherever you hang out on the Web, tell your friends about it. You can help us most by helping us grow the show organically By bringing in listeners, you're bringing in readers to the website. We've got an absolute ton of stop planned for this website. It's not another gonna cost anybody a dime, so we're updating it daily. It's gonna be awesome. and already is, I think pretty good. So hang with us, E. And thank you for listening

spk_0:   27:47
live well, no matter what life brings.