spk_0:   0:02
Hello, everybody.

spk_1:   0:04
Hello. Everybody Wouldn't show the Big show, the most important and critically acclaimed show that has been recorded in our car and here today. You know what today is? You may say, Well, it's Saturday and you're driving, too. Uh, a town in Missouri. Well, we're going to comb. Oh, Columbia, Missouri, home of the Missouri Tigers. Not that we're actually Tiger fans, because we're not. Anyway. Long story short, we're driving to Colombia here on the road, and it's a Saturday, but it's also a sarin dip a day It is, well, not completely deputy doodah. Yeah, because we had a serendipitous event. We had just been talking about something I was pitching an idea for, Ah, podcast an article to her without her knowing that it was specifically for a podcaster. An article. And here's what we're I was expected she suspected. Yeah, but you know, we're pitch ideas off of each other, and sometimes there softballs, and sometimes they're sliders in the dirt. Not that either one of us are particularly baseball fans, either. But anyway, I pitched an idea, said OK, you are a normally knowledgeable person when it comes to firearms. Would you agree with that. You have a normal at least a normal about knowledge. When it comes to firearms.

spk_0:   1:40
I have more than the average American, right? But I am not a gun guru.

spk_1:   1:45
Fair enough. And you have been a person with a proper mindset for many years. Yeah, that's fair. You are a gun enthusiast. At least when you're shooting, you enjoy shooting guns. You like hearing him go bang. Feeling the recoil, the love on your hand on your shoulder from the little

spk_0:   2:09
bottles filled with water exploding. Spurt water in the area

spk_1:   2:12
or start to pee. Okay, So you enjoy it. Yes. And you fight it of a useful thing to do you believe that you may at some point in time, heaven forbid. But you may. I need to protect yourself via a fire. It's possible it could happen. You definitely and completely believe that you may have to protect your property from varmints already happening. Yes. So you see the use for fire. You are a prepper. So if you could notice, does it again, whether we own it or not. I asked her if you could I have but one gun in a survival situation. We're talking about one gun. It is. If you could only have one gun and have enough ammo for it to you could have any kind of ammo that fits that particular gun. What would it be? And I threw in the caveat. No cheating. And by cheating, I mean nothing like the in England arms handy rifles where you could get eight different barrels. Everything from a 12 gauge to a 30 out sex. No, that's cheating. No cheating. I will allow it. She, inasmuch as you can get a 12 gauge and then inserts what should do that a 12 gauge single shot. But you could get insert because they're not that effective.

spk_0:   3:51
I intellectually see the value of shotguns, but I don't love them. Okay, so it would not pick one.

spk_1:   3:57
I asked her what she would pick and go ahead tell tell the story of what you would pick if you were picking.

spk_0:   4:05
Unsurprisingly, I went with something we do own because there's a reason we own it. And that is the devore Bhopal.

spk_1:   4:14
She is talking about Tabor x 95 model. The newest model bull pup in 2 23 5.56 Neto. Now go ahead and explain your reasonings as to why you would pick the divorce.

spk_0:   4:30
It's about probabilities of what I've needed for and how good the gun would be at it. Okay, um, unlikely that I would ever need to shoot a human being to defend myself. But if I do need it, I really do need it. And it's a good choice for that. Yes, it's easy for me to handle. It's easy for me to aim accurately. I can carry it around comfortably. I could carry it through, crashing through the woods or whatever. So

spk_1:   4:59
and as we have it set up, we have it set up, hurts of or set up. Both bars actually set up as, uh, close quarters combat style rifles. They have the fast acquisition sites, but with adding a magnifier. Do that holographic sight. You can get out to the accurate rage of the gut, which is probably, you know, for hunting accuracy a couple 100 yards,

spk_0:   5:27
which is as far as you can see in any one direction, in the kind of territory I would be likely to hunt because it's all open down,

spk_1:   5:34
right and would

spk_0:   5:35
largely would it. So if you can see that far, you're doing better than most days.

spk_1:   5:40
Okay, so let's let's take a look at what are the things that you would be most likely to need? A gun most

spk_0:   5:46
likely to need a gun for is midsize varmints. Because if I'm in a survival situation, what I'm actually doing is I'm trying to keep some livestock and permaculture stuff and planting a big garden. Things like that. I'm planning on growing a lot of my food and keeping some livestock to supply the rest. That's what I most likely to need. And I know the varmints are a real problem. Who will eat your lunch for you?

spk_1:   6:16
Talk about the bar bins that you would likely run into.

spk_0:   6:20
You mean the coyotes? I hear every time almost I sleep out of place. I do mean you mean the coyotes that live to the southwest of us or the coyotes that live to the southeast of us because we have to separate packs within hearing distance out there. There's no way I'm gonna be able to keep foul or rabbits out there without being able to protect him. We've also got at least a couple of families of boxes. Got a bunch of rack

spk_1:   6:48
for a couple years ago walking out in the middle of daylight. Low turnout Looks like What are you doing here? You know, belong here. I'm saying he was giving us the look.

spk_0:   6:59
I got to stare down from him just about a month ago when I was cutting wood out there as well. He wasn't more than 20 yards from and he was just like, Yeah, what do you do in my woods? Like admiring you, you handsome boy.

spk_1:   7:14
But if we had chickens, we might need your pelt. Yes, your pelt might come in handy because

spk_0:   7:22
they're surprisingly ingenious about breaking into enclosures and slobbering everything in sight.

spk_1:   7:28
And a 2 23 would handle Mr Fox. I think so.

spk_0:   7:31
And we got kun's all over the place there, which will trash a garden hard.

spk_1:   7:36
Yeah, well, people don't think about raccoons trashing gardens, but the city people don't think about trashing gardens.

spk_0:   7:44
We know these things. So that's the thing I would almost certainly actually I need a gun for And the war would be a good choice.

spk_1:   7:55
Could actually at people would will raise their eyebrows about this, But people who don't actually hunt you could actually hunt rabbits and squirrels with 2 23 if you hit them in the head. If you hit him in the body, they would explode.

spk_0:   8:12
Yeah, there wouldn't be anything left,

spk_1:   8:13
but you could take their head off. And you should be able to do that within 50 yards with the tomorrow. Yeah. I can't get around. This can't. Fortunately, we're talking. There was a a bunch of roadkill, and there was just no way around it. I have people on all sides of us

spk_0:   8:30
or something. Fell off a butcher shop

spk_1:   8:33
drunk. It's not gonna look so close. Yeah, so good. So we have two foot for too long environments. We have four legs. What about? Could you deer hunt with that gun?

spk_0:   8:44
I could deer hunt with that gun if I had at pretty close range, because it's not as big a slug as a big a bullet, as I would like to take down big game with. But I could do dear with it. If it was really close. I could do cattle with it. And if it's a really survival situation, there's probably a bunch of feral cattle around where we are

spk_1:   9:12
and hogs. The hogs would get out.

spk_0:   9:15
Yeah, the hogs would be harder to shoot with that hooks.

spk_1:   9:19
You could you could shoot. You can shoot hog.

spk_0:   9:22
Yeah, totally ruin their day. Yeah, that probably die. I might not be able to catch him and eat him. But

spk_1:   9:28
you gotta be watching that on Wild Hogs. Anyway. You're careful on wild hogs. Yeah. True.

spk_0:   9:35
Something I can get behind or climb up from shooting dogs with 2 23 I have

spk_1:   9:40
an acquaintance. I'm not gonna actually call it a friend. You're not really a friend. I haven't acquaintance. So that raises free range hogs, which is totally different than a wild hog. He raises free range hogs. And even with a free range hog, the difference in the meat is astronomically.

spk_0:   9:59
Yeah, it doesn't even look like store pork. It looks more like venison, fattier venison. But it looks more like venison. Much less marble. Much more red. It's hawks have a much better diet, and they're a lot healthier.

spk_1:   10:15
Well, they're free range. Yeah. Okay. So good choice. Actually, I like her choice. I mean, you could pretty much you're obviously home defense absolutely would not be my first home defense interior, home defense choice. But it would be a decent one. And the thing with the bull pop is it is very short. You can actually handle it in a very congested situation, which is, of course, why the Israelis do that. They have to deal with a lot of of house to house type situations. Now our bull pups are slightly longer than what the Israelis use. The pad length the shoulders. Lips are a little a little longer, and the barrel length is two inches longer than what the Israelis use because of the stupid law that you can't have a short, short barreled rifle. So they meet the imported ones, beat us standards, but they're still very, very maneuverable, much shorter than most. Aye, aye. Ours, for example. So good choice. It's also one I would not have thought of. That's why I asked her, Um, Durai can see many, many good choices, could see many, many good traces. I'm gonna talk about a few, and they were right about Maurine the article. I'm gonna caveat this out by saying these are just a few choices There are lots and lots and lots of options for this. And you know, if you have your own will, please share him with us. I mean, I'll be curious to hear what you have to say. My first choice, and this is the city where the serendipity comes in was a gun that I don't actually own. I've been wanting to buy one of these for a long time. I've had similar guns, but in Iraq they had this one. My first choice is a Henry lever gun, specifically a large handgun caliber carby. And here's why they have a model. The model I like is it's a 16 and 1/2 inch barrel. It comes in pretty much all the larger handgun calibers. I don't know what the biggest is. I don't know if it goes to 50 caliber. I don't think they do. I know they have 44 Magnum, and they have them all the way down to like 3 27 I'm not exactly sure. All the basically the big hand gun cartridges. I know it's available on 45 long cold. I know it's available in 3 57 Magnum. I know it's available in 3 27 Magnum. I know it's available in 44 Magnum. One of those gets you the following. It gets you a short. Is it a handle? Recoil controlled, So means you can get out multiple shots. Fast shooting. You pop off four or five shots, like in a real hurry gun that is easy to maneuver with. Has excellent sites there iron sights. Or you could put optics on it if you want to. Very, very easy to handle. Lightweight. And that's also a gun that does exactly the same thing is what she was talking about. It will help you. You could control varmints both two legged and four legged with it. Very good home defense. Gun short is you to move around, but you're still getting that 16 and 1/2 inch barrel so the muzzle velocity goes way up on those rounds. I saw one of those as we walked in the structure of the first things. I saw that I was stopped by the local gun shop to buy a couple magazines. Actually, for my newest project, which is an air 10 clone, 308 Air 10 which is basically the big brother of the air. 15 more on that. As time goes by, we haven't had not actually got it all set up yet. But I saw this. They're in the store and I turn around her. And I asked the guy, Can I have hey, left? I opened it up. Open up the action check to make the first thing you do. Always, always, always follow the rules of gun safety. Even in a gun store, you never point a gun at anybody. You always check to make sure it's empty. First thing, make sure that kind is empty. You don't know who's handle it before, maybe they dropped around. It may be jerks trying to kill somebody. I don't know. I opened it up, so it was empty. Um, I hated her and she used like, Yeah,

spk_0:   15:33
actually, my first thought because we we've just been He just asked me what I would choose

spk_1:   15:38
just right before Lennon. Yeah, we're pulling it.

spk_0:   15:40
So he didn't say anything about that. Just handed me. What do you think? And my first thought was I see your point

spk_1:   15:48
like I see your point. You see my point. I didn't have a point I just know that this thing here I've been looking at one hard for a long time, and I've just traded off a whole bunch of guns that it wasn't using. And so I've got money sitting there in my account. They sold on consignment for you. So I got money sitting there from account, and I didn't think it hard about buying one of these in 3 57 I'll come back to that. Why? In a minute? Um, that might not be the ultimate If I were just buying one. Just two out of the blue I probably by a 44 Magnum. But there's a reason I'm getting a 3 57 And so I handed church. I see your point. I see your point. And what did you see when you handled that gun? We're talking about the 16 inch model with the large loop, which makes it much easier to handle with gloves on. What did you say? What point did you see?

spk_0:   16:49
I think Henry's are an enormously reliable and well made gun. This is something I could see working for you for, as as long as I'm gonna live. It's got a lot of the same benefits as the war I was talking about in terms of ease, of use and, ah, versatility of missions you could use it for. And it's just a sweet gun to hold and use its light. It's maneuverable, you know, if I could just have one gun, that also might be one that I would pay. Yeah, I'm not saying this is a better choice than mine, but I'm saying I can. I can see going this way and it might be a better choice than mine.

spk_1:   17:44
It does have a couple of real advantages and one big disadvantage over the divorce. I can think of two or three. It's less

spk_0:   17:53
likely to be made illegal.

spk_1:   17:55
It's less likely, that is, number. Weight is less likely to be made illegal because there is absolutely no possible way that you could consider a tube of magazine pistol caliber Carby as an assault assault rifle. It did just know it. There's no way because you mean you get I don't know exactly how many shots that particular one has. It depends on the cartridge. I think it's five or six. Let's say it's six. You have six shots, six plus one and six plus one in the chamber. So you talking seven shots perfectly safe to put in the chamber because of the trigger, the hammer cock. So it's perfectly safe to walk around with one of the one of the pipe. Um, so it's There's no chance that guy's gonna be banned unless they're banning all guns. And then all all bets are off. But does that to bore cost $19? This thing cost $700. That's a That's a big deal, you know, and it doesn't look like a dangerous gun. I know that Such a stupid concept that most people wouldn't think of it. Most gun people but doesn't look scary in a tub or looks scary.

spk_0:   19:25
It looks more like something from an Old West movie.

spk_1:   19:28
Yeah, a devore looks scary. A air 10 air 15 looks scary. A a K looks scary.

spk_0:   19:46
Let's face it. If looking scary was not important, they never would have made bayonet mounts illegal

spk_1:   19:53
exactly or pistol grips. That gun is as deadly for the 1st 6 shots as a lot of other guns, you know, 3 57 common Magnum shell coming out of that gun will wreck your day if you get hit by it. I mean, it's actually arguably a much more potent round than a T 23 coming out of a war on a human because it hits a lot with a lot more mass, and it really doesn't matter when you're talking about getting eight inches deep in a human, you're like you're probably more likely to be killed by a 57 Magnum around than you are by 2 23

spk_0:   20:48
People aren't eight inches deep to their core bits,

spk_1:   20:52
so yeah, I think it's a good choice now as to specifically why I'm doing 3 57 Will we have calibers that we heal that we stick to those calibers? Be an hour revolvers. All of our revolvers that we use for a survival stuff are 3 37 or 38 special, all of it. We do that specifically, so we only have to have 3 37 or 38 special ammunition. So this guy will probably get shot with 38 special because it's cheap and easy to reload. Three Sevens easy roller, too. But you know the 38 special and it's a very low impact around, so this gun will probably shoot a lot of 38 special. So that's why we chose that. If I were just buying a standalone gun, I would probably get more Maribel 44 back just simply because it's, you know, if you look at what you could do with this gun, the perfect example, you can hear how it with it. People deal with 3 57 Magnum pistols with hot loads. Well, this is gonna bring, you know, several more 100 feet per second. Muzzle velocity than a pain that is in a pistol will just simply because longer barrel longer, barely got more chance to burn up the powder. Better combustion. You're gonna have a really, really high muzzle velocity coming out of that muzzle. It's a choice. Now. What else might you look at? A lot of people will say the perfect survival round is a 22 and I disagree. I love 22. I shoot 20 years all the time. I enjoyed it. They're fun. They're Betty

spk_0:   22:45
for small game and small game is not the highest thing on my needs list. If I'm in a survival situation, there's not that much meat on squirrel. Guys know rabbits. Okay? You gotta get rid of the rabbits.

spk_1:   23:00
Have we ever done the calorie count on that? I think we talked about it. I don't know if he actually ever did it about Kenny. How many squirrels would it take to eat to keep you alive?

spk_0:   23:11
What's that? Something like 10 schools.

spk_1:   23:12
That's us. We're gonna what we do, we'll revisit that. I think I think we did that article of that of does squirrels and rabbits. Does it make sense? Toe? Is it part of squirrels? Rabbits? A part of Of a realistic survival plan.

spk_0:   23:30
If your heart killing rabbits is part of a realistic survival plan,

spk_1:   23:34
Sure. And you may have a lead him? I got him. The squirrels have some little bean on them that makes them. You know, I think you burn as many calories shooting and preparing them as you get out of them.

spk_0:   23:45
Not about calories. It's about protein.

spk_1:   23:47
There you go. See it now? Yeah, I think we don't remember. We did this. We talked a

spk_0:   23:52
discussion, but I don't know.

spk_1:   23:53
We talked about something for the site will come back to that later. The 357 Magnum. You're not the hunting squirrels with but a 22 you could. Okay, Could you use 22 for self defense? Yes, you could. Having said that,

spk_0:   24:15
I don't want to. I

spk_1:   24:16
don't want to. First of all, it's rim. Fire and rim fire are inherently unreliable. So 22 just a very poor soft around. You can get the get the magnum around you can get this Stinger rounds is true. Other fairly reliable. And they hit pretty hard. You will definitely kill somebody.

spk_0:   24:37
I have used one as a pocket gun. On occasion when I wanted something right when I was gonna be out in the woods by myself and all I could all I really wanted to carry is something I could fit literally in a pocket. I've done that with hot rounds, but

spk_1:   24:52
yeah, but you weren't actually carrying 22. You were hearing 22 magnums. That's a different round. It's Ah, it's a sharp around. It's a little more impactful room. So anyway, 22 you know, it's not a choice I would make. Shotguns are great. Chuckles were fantastic survival weapons, but then again we come back to you, having said that very limited in what they dio. You can deer hunt with a shotgun. But again, we're not letting you play all these little different games. You get to have one gun. You don't get to have 20 barrels on it. Even though the shotguns were used to replace barrel on, I'm gonna give you one gun. My question is, are you gonna have? Ah, a shotgun. That's a thug slug type gun. Is she a slugs out of it? Are you gonna have just a regular smooth bore shotgun? 12 gauge. You put a slug ammunition issued, dear, but your ranges, but 7500 yards the most. And even still, it's really act of a shot. It's It's an option, But great shot Guns are great for hope Defense. Fantastic. For that, they're very good for pest control. Very, very good for pest control you can hunt with, Um obviously, they're great for hunting. How

spk_0:   26:27
about one of those shotgun? 22 over unders.

spk_1:   26:30
How about one of those shotgun? 22 over and unders? How about you could tell exactly where I was going with this?

spk_0:   26:38
Just came to mind. I wasn't trying to.

spk_1:   26:41
I think one of the best guns. And unfortunately, there's been a change in the way that they're made over the years. One of the best little survival Gove's that I think you could have would be the savage 22 4 10 over under. Back in the day, I had one, and it was a great guy. Sold it you many, many years ago, and I kicked myself ever since. 22 barrel on top for 10 underneath. Now you can get him in devil Living configurations. In fact, it might be a better idea to get a 20 to 20 gauge, but you get him in several different configurations, but the 20 to 4 10 over under its. That's a great small game gun, and you could do pretty much every kind of hunting. There is two d'oh short of big game. I don't think they make for 10 deer slugs. Pretty sure they don't never actually looked, um, you know they did. I wouldn't recommend trying. That would be great. Self defense. Got you self defense rounds in in the 4 10 but single shot. Still, unfortunately, they changed the way they were made years ago. They went out of production. Savage made some marvelous. First they last forever and went out of production. They brought him back, but they brought him back with a polymer stock. And frankly, the build quality is not good. Not a fan of them. I've looked at the buying on a couple of times because I loved my old one now. And so I started watching. Used at a holy smokes. Are they ridiculously priced? There was one. The local gun shop got in inches. I know you've been looking for one of these. Here. Check this one out. It's not in pristine condition, but it's perfectly suitable. The barrel insides were okay. I mean, you could tell it had had some surface rust cleaned off of it. I mean, not a good clean example of mid condition gun. Yeah. Okay. It's one you'd walk around in the woods with. It wasn't, You know, I've been cleaned up, but it wasn't great. So what they want for five. Excuse me. Might years they're not working out. Did you just say five? There were $500 sold for $120. New. This guy isn't new. That's good. It's not in new condition. they want $500 or that gun, the new by the new polymer version like four. Which ought to tell you the quality of the two.

spk_0:   29:35
I would so much rather have the Henry O war.

spk_1:   29:39
I'm just saying. And so anyway, I passed on that and it sold that day for $500. I think if somebody really wanted to make a gun, manufacture one to make a gun to get cell, go ahead and bring out that for 10. 22 over under or even at 22. You know, they come in different varieties. You could get a 12 gauge nine millimeter, 12 gates 38 special called gauge to seven. You could get him in all different sizes and stuff, but they're single shots. Did you get the hand? The pack rifles? Oh, like our kill tex Sub 2000. It would be in actually a pretty good choice. Now, my first caveat is I don't necessarily want to I have my life depend on aquel tak because this cools the guns are did company kind of has some reliability issues. No offense to him, but they dio Hello, my Celtic. I've I've only had one misfire, and I know it was I know what happened there. It was a magazine issue. I put in a magazine that I wasn't real sure of.

spk_0:   31:04
Found out,

spk_1:   31:05
found out. Yeah, but with the good quality with a Glock magazine or with the magazine. It ships with the P mag. It was flawless. So yeah, I've had no trouble with shooting my sub 2000 and you're going to see an article on that one of these days? Um, that might be a good choices. Nine millimeter carby. A little bit like to do any big game hunting. I would not want to hunt with they nine millimeter. You know, it's legal. I wouldn't wanna hunt deer with a nine millimeter carving. It's just not enough around to get the job done. I wouldn't I would not hunt hogs with a nine millimeter card. I would have no trouble taking out a coyote with it. Clocks with anything like that.

spk_0:   31:53
You want a deer with a light around? You're risking not getting the deer. You want a hog with a light around. You're risking having a bunch of really mad hogs trying to eat you those things can get me

spk_1:   32:06
that can get me that they can do. Charge you. So there are some options. Are there other options

spk_0:   32:15
out there? Sure, there are. I don't like any single shot option, though, frankly,

spk_1:   32:20
not is your only gun. No, I don't need.

spk_0:   32:22
Especially since I have never had to fire a weapon in anger. But I'm pretty sure I'd be pretty full of trouble. And if it ever happened to me and accuracy will suffer,

spk_1:   32:37
Yeah, that is, if somebody were That is one big disadvantage with Henry as if you were in actual battle, it would be have a disadvantage, but it would still be a decent choice. Yeah, but frankly, I mean, I'm not five or six shots. Yeah, I'm not. I'm not to spend my life, considering that my chances of being in a gun battle are going to be high. I just don't think that's going to high here. Yeah, I'm not saying I'm not going to be prepared. I'm saying I just can't see that happening. I just really can't.

spk_0:   33:20
I can see a guy deciding he was a predator and I was his prey. Yes, because that happens to small women Frankly,

spk_1:   33:28
I can't see a guy going getting mad at you, and you need to defend yourself. But actually a full scale battle in my little town. Yeah, I don't think so. Having said that, we do have weaponry if comes to that. So anyway, just some thoughts. What do you think? Do our theories hold water? You had other ideas. Leave us a comment. Let us know. All right, way out.