Episode 181: Vaccination Considerations

Salty and Spice discuss vaccinations (and icy roads, and a couple of other things as well) Go to Beans, Bullets, Bandages & You by clicking HERE!

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spk_0:   0:00
Hello, everybody.

spk_1:   0:01
Hello, everybody. And welcome to the show The big show, the icy show, the cold show

spk_0:   0:08
the diamonds in the tree show

spk_1:   0:10
We're driving down the road and we're driving past gravel roads that are just literally, absolutely I should skate on

spk_0:   0:19
ice skates would be better than feet or cars on roads, roads literally.

spk_1:   0:24
You're watched that show on TV, which I don't think we've ever watch because we don't actually have TV watch. But if we did, you know, I know there's a show called Ice Road Truckers and that anybody driving a truck down one of these gravel roads in North Missouri this week would be an ice road trucker. But we're not here to talk about icy roads, even though, frankly, we'll be glad to talk about icy roads at some point in time. It's just not the subject of today to Dick. Excuse me. Um, my good. Just look at that thing.

spk_0:   1:02
We got a nice storm a day or two ago, and the trees are just beautiful, coated with a layer of ice with sunshine and behind him. But the roads are not, is pretty shining with a smooth she device,

spk_1:   1:17
the local school district has missed Maur school this year than they've missed in the last 40 years. And that

spk_0:   1:25
is the last 10 combined.

spk_1:   1:26
That includes the late seventies, which you got back to the time that could dried up. They could run the school buses on the hard roads. Now they just can't. I mean, the hard roads are clear of the main highways were clear, but that's about it. But, I mean, it's crazy. I'm gonna take a brief detour here. Just a very brief T tour here. Okay? I just paused the recording so we could stop by one of these roads and take a picture of it. So I'm gonna put this bubble of post this picture with the podcast. So if you look at the this will be the the podcast picture. I mean, it is just absolutely glare eyes. I've never seen roads like this before. And all the years that I have lived in North Missouri, I have.

spk_0:   2:16
But you were in Missouri at any rate, but it's been a long time

spk_1:   2:21
anyway. Long story short. That's not what this is about. We're not here to talk about icy roads. What are we here to talk about it. It's a blind mystery episode. I call it a mystery episode, this one where one of us knows the subject and the other one just has to pipe up and pretend a blind mystery episode is where the person who's declaring it a mystery episode doesn't know the subject. Me? I don't know the subject of this podcast. She does duty. D'oh, d'oh, d'oh, d'oh! D'oh! Pssh!

spk_0:   2:54
I wonder what we're talking about.

spk_1:   2:55
We're talking about whatever it is article you were writing this morning because I didn't. You said you were writing an article, but you never actually mentioned at any time that I was listening. Course,

spk_0:   3:07
yes. I only mentioned it three or four times. This'll do me.

spk_1:   3:14
I'm not hurting your ego that way.

spk_0:   3:17
No, I'm well over that. It's not about the

spk_1:   3:22
Yeah, it's not about me. I don't have the problem, she says.

spk_0:   3:28
So it's about what's been going on with the vaccinations and the measles outbreak.

spk_1:   3:36
Because we had both. We've had vaccinations and we have measles outbreak. Yeah. No.

spk_0:   3:40
And the set up here,

spk_1:   3:42
Should we do a caveat?

spk_0:   3:44
Sure. We're not physicians.

spk_1:   3:45
Okay? We're not visit physicians we don't know anything. But we do know at least one of us knows how to lead medical research that is done in peer reviewed medical journals

spk_0:   3:59
and know which ones air quality and which ones are great purview. Okay, The reason I

spk_1:   4:05
bring that up is because there is a lot of garbage floating around on in the vaccine area. There's a lot of absolute, completely fabricated stuff out there.

spk_0:   4:20
Actually, there's not much research that's fabricated. There's just the one paper and it's been pulled.

spk_1:   4:26
What's still but so much is still based off of that one thing that

spk_0:   4:31
there's a lot of

spk_1:   4:31
true. It was stuff legally made up.

spk_0:   4:34
That's not even where I went with this post.

spk_1:   4:37
I just want people about you

spk_0:   4:39
know about that. This is about on one hand. It's hard to argue that vaccinations for are necessary vaccinations. Four diseases that are dangerous and high risk have saved a whole lot lots in the past, 0 67

spk_1:   4:57
years. That's anybody want. Starting with that is arguing that the world is flat. Yeah, you know, we're getting to the point in trying. The world is flat that he tried tight, try to get to Detroit. Lions have won 17 Super Bowls. I mean, things that are

spk_0:   5:12
getting just selling.

spk_1:   5:14
Yeah. Now I'm getting really silly. Sorry. Uh, but anyway, I

spk_0:   5:22
don't fancy words

spk_1:   5:22
that don't go together. Detroit Lions and Super Bowl don't fit in the same conversation. Go right ahead anyway, anyway.

spk_0:   5:31
But the place. The question comes in as what vaccination should be considered necessary. And although I do have real and informed opinions on the subject, that's not what I'm here to talk about. Particularly instead, I'm talking about decision choices. What factors do you look at to decide whether or not to get a particular vaccination at a particular time? And the reason I was motivated to write this article is I was reading about what's been going on up in Washington, and as we speak, they're having a measles outbreak in Washington that's almost epidemic size of the sporting tin state. Washington State, the Pacific Northwestern general. It's it's spreading, started in Washington state. It's spreading around up there. It's spreading other places, too. We actually have had cases in Missouri and Illinois in the past week pop up because people move

spk_1:   6:24
and we have. We have a caveat we have in our part of the country. We have a very, very, very large percentage of our population compared to everywhere else of Amish

spk_0:   6:37
and then tonight

spk_1:   6:37
and Mennonites. Some Mennonites vaccinate some don't, but the Amish do not.

spk_0:   6:43
And they are well known in epidemiological literature as test areas to look at disease transmission in unvaccinated populations because they're just, they're helpful on the questions of that. But they have problems with disease transmission because they don't vaccinate. But at the start of this outbreak, this is one of the it started in a community where there is a strong anti vax er sentiment, and the state allows parents to opt out for oh, basically any reason they have to fill out a form to say why they're not getting their kid vaccinated against measles. And that's the only reason you're a real

spk_1:   7:28
estate in this entire thing, because we don't talk about politics here.

spk_0:   7:32
No, I don't care about politics, not interested in the politics. That's just how it is. And in this particular community, you know how things are. You talk to your friends, you talk to the people around you to make your decisions In this particular community. The percentage of Children vaccinated against measles was particularly low, like lower than anywhere in Europe. By a good long stretch, it was down to 75% vaccination.

spk_1:   7:58
You mean Europe, where there isn't any diesel up breaks that place?

spk_0:   8:03
No. I mean the Europe that's starting to get measles outbreaks because they're starting to have an anti vax movement. That one you're talking about the Europe of five years ago. They've been infected, so to speak. But anyway, 75% vaccination in the community. So they got a measles outbreak and out of that measles outbreak, they say that what was it if I recall the numbers correctly? 43 of the 50 confirmed cases were unvaccinated people, almost all of them 42 of them Children. They had six people whose vaccination status was unknown and one person who had gotten the first of the two shots. Siri's, which normally provides about 93% protection for measles. I guess this person was one of the 7% hadn't gotten the booster yet and got it and zero cases among the vaccinated population, uh, at any rate, 75% vaccination right. 50 cases of measles pop up in one month. The request for vaccinations jumps by over 500% in that county. So from went from hundreds to thousands of requests for vaccinations in a month because now they actually saw the need.

spk_1:   9:24
Think about it is kind of an issue.

spk_0:   9:28
Much of the reasoning behind people who do not vaccinate is there depending on what's called herd immunity. And I see lots of herds as we drive here through northeast Missouri. Uh, if the if you got a herd of, ah, 100 cattle and 99 of them are vaccinated against a disease than the 100 can't Beef is almost certain to not get the disease where

spk_1:   9:54
we're together from nobody to pass it right no longer. That's not something. The only thing you're in danger of is having it come in from an outside source like idiots, something that hits from a you know, a parasite or something, because they're not getting it from one of the

spk_0:   10:13
most. Transmission is from the beings you deal with day to day, right? So when unvaccinated Children were a very small subset of the population, they didn't get sick either. because nobody was transmitting the disease around. But 75% is below the threshold for effective herd immunity and measles and measles. I believe it's 85% of the population has to be vaccinated to get a good herd immunity going, and then the other 15% kind of ride the coattails. But 75% isn't high enough. So the disease started spreading like crazy through this community, and they popped up with 50 confirmed cases in a big fat hurry. And they started having breakout outbreaks in other areas like Missouri and Illinois, because people would pick it up in the outbreak area and then the travel somewhere else. So I got to thinking about the strategy of waiting until it is evident that a particular vaccination is necessary before taking the particular vaccination. What determines when you should take early and when it's ah, more reasonable choice to wait and maybe not take a vaccination until you see a real threat for it, because I don't take every available vaccination because I judge my risk for some of these diseases is low enough, but it's not worth taking him. I'm not saying

spk_1:   11:37
I'm a vaccination I'm vaccinated, certainly for the lifetime vaccinations. And a lot of these are lifetime vaccinations. Not all of them, but a lot of them are. I'm vaccinated for so much more than you are. It's not even funny.

spk_0:   11:49
Oh yeah, stuff that's not

spk_1:   11:51
just in Southeast Asia in the sixties and you got vaccinated for every dog gone thing. No. One of the worst things about being a kid and having to travel overseas with shots every Thursday. Get four shots. And this went on for months every Thursday for shots. The thing is, now if you get a vaccination, you know a lot of times that their combination vaccination, they put all your stuff in there. So you're getting them all at once. They didn't do that that way, and today's vaccinations are much more sophisticated. Their buffered

spk_0:   12:25
hurt us much. They don't hurt. Generally,

spk_1:   12:28
they don't got a gentler than little pinprick. That's about the size of it. Back then, they used, you know, needles the size of a space rocket, and they the amount that they had to use was so much more. I mean, literally, it would take 30 seconds to inject. We have had to use this huge because they didn't have the technology of the vaccine. Was not. It was just

spk_0:   12:52
Yeah, I wasn't an engineered vaccine.

spk_1:   12:54
And some of them were actually live active vaccines to which they don't really don't have any other choice now. So anyway, But I got all these vaccinations when I was a kid.

spk_0:   13:05
You don't need to confuse live and active. However, those are actually two different things.

spk_1:   13:09
Okay, whatever. Uh, it was it was quite a traumatic experience, but, you know, I lived and we didn't get I mean, we went to some pretty

spk_0:   13:21
yellow fever world. Oh, I don't know what all I remember you talking about yellow fever and certainly that really fever scarlet fever. Scarlet Tina,

spk_1:   13:30
Rheumatic fever. Ah, Vera. Bunch of romantic Asia. Specific stuff. Typhoid, typhus, cholera G you, of course. Obviously pulling polio. I almost said polar, right? Yeah. Obviously got polio. You got pole? Sure. Everybody.

spk_0:   13:53
They were still getting polio.

spk_1:   13:57
Um, but I mean, I don't even remember what a lot of these were. Ah, but a lot of them You would. I mean, basically, if if you got it If you went to the U. S. Military for Southeast Asia and you got that vaccination package. That's what I got, plus all the childhood stuff on top of it. So I am Vac Ste.

spk_0:   14:17
So it's about which ones do you take and which ones do you hold off until the need looks? Evidence. And what really surprised me about this new story about the measles outbreak is that they actually had enough vaccine and they weren't running out. But noodles is a very common vaccine and its stores very well. So they had big stores on hand, and they could get it in quickly because it's not a nationwide outbreak. It's a very localized outbreak at this point, not nationwide epidemic. It's a localized outbreak, so they can draw from large pools of supplies that were going to go other places. Nobody goes very short. They up the production just a little bit and covered because in one county, an extra 1500 doses is a ton in the US, it's nothing. So

spk_1:   15:04
contrast that now I and you do this in the story I don't wantto buster. That would contrast that to something like, say, a flu virus where the flu strain that is breaking out is one that's actually covered by the flu shot.

spk_0:   15:18
Yeah, well covered would

spk_1:   15:19
just not be able to

spk_0:   15:20
nasty flues.

spk_1:   15:21
And then there's that other stuff that the stuff that they give you to reduce once you have the flu to reduce it Tamiflu desktop is going some of that. If there's a bad flu outbreak.

spk_0:   15:33
Yeah, that's tough to get hold of, too. But that's only that's a fairly minor thing, too. It's not that great. Help doesn't

spk_1:   15:41
get it. It's an example

spk_0:   15:43
we tried. We tried one year where there was a big flu outbreak and we're going on vacation, and I I asked my provider to give me some Tamiflu just in case we got hit on vacation. And she's like, Yeah, that's a reasonable request given the situation. But no, I can't do it because we're out And that's what happened in 2004. There was a very nasty strain of flu. The vaccination was protecting pretty well, but it was a really unpleasant variety and it was killing a lot of people who are otherwise susceptible to flu. It was a high fatality rate flew for generic seasonal flu, and I happen to be on chemotherapy that year, which was not a great year to be on chemotherapy as far as disease transmission goes because it really lowers your immunity. So I often take the flu vaccine so I don't become a note and pass it around. But that year it was actually important to my well being and potentially my life that I get the flu vaccine. And when I first read the news, I started calling around where Health Department don't have any. My normal provider don't have any. The other normal providers in town don't have any. We live in such a small town that I only see my oncologist every two or three weeks. So a week later or so, he asked me if I've gotten the vaccine and I'm like, I haven't been able to find any. He says, Fix you right up. Give you want on your way out with the flu vaccine supply? Yeah,

spk_1:   17:12
they can get it because they're on the higher.

spk_0:   17:15
Everybody was trying to order flu vaccine for their practices, and most of their going well, you know, supplies are limited and he calls up. Supplies are limited. I'm an oncologist. How much do you want? Because, yeah, his population could use very easily die without the vaccine.

spk_1:   17:32
Would you like a super super role?

spk_0:   17:35
Of course. But do not stop. We're moving right on. We're not going to stop and buy me a giant cinnamon roll. Well,

spk_1:   17:40
Dr Delicious, we're driving in North Missouri. We're heading east. We're leaving the state except the mom. And I'm gonna tell you this is your Here's your tip If you want the best and I mean the best Giant cinnamon rolls Stanley's Highway six diner in Lewistown

spk_0:   18:05
yet they're not well, we just super sweet. They're not really You're not ridiculously drenched in Ah, I sing. Although they have some, they're very cinnamon e Nice late anyway.

spk_1:   18:17
Very like they're They're very fluffy. There's a kind of pull part. They just kind of a lot.

spk_0:   18:23
Enjoy them a lot, but you don't want me. I'm not eating one today. Off we go driving.

spk_1:   18:28
There's two reasons to stop in it list And what is to stop the sea store if you got a, you know, to see store stuff and the other one is these roles. I'm sure there's other things in Lewistown I don't know, but we're through. Actually, we're going over to take Eagle Pictures. We're going over to the river, so that's what we're doing. Only way to get over to the river is to drive over to the river. And here's my aside. I'm ready for my side

spk_0:   18:57
of the cinnamon rolls for not

spk_1:   18:59
know the cinnamon rolls were were. Opportunity. Eagle Pictures. If you're going to take pictures or you wanna watch Eagles, you pick a town along the Mississippi River that has a lock and dam, and you just go south of the lock and dam, where the water's turbulent and there will be eagles. Canton has a lot of eagles. Kit Kat has a lot of eagles, but not so many because it's really built up on both sides of the river. Quincy has a lot of eagles. Parksville has a lot of eagles. Animal Hannibal Hannibal has a lot of evil, you know, basically Ugo, every 21 river miles, there's a lock and dam on the north part of the Mississippi, so that's where you're going to go to get your eagles. And when we say a lot of eagles were talking, there's often 2 to 300 eagles

spk_0:   19:49
fishing at a time. It's it's a buffet you have to literally watch out. Not that they don't drop fish heads on you as you walk into the trees

spk_1:   19:57
anyway, back to back to vaccine.

spk_0:   19:59
So that's one consideration is, will the vaccine actually be available when you need it? And if it's a dangerous disease and it's a big outbreak, and it's especially not one for which people are regularly, you know, vaccinated in large quantity, it's gonna be hard to get the vaccine. So keep that part in mind. Another part is there's a lag time between when you get a vaccination, unless it's there. Two kinds of vaccinations, the active kind, coaxes your immune system to set up an attack against whatever germ you're talking about. Sometimes it's alive, and sometimes it's killed or a genetically engineered piece of it. But it's always about your immune system, figuring out and cloning the right cells to defend against it. And there are the best vaccines for long term because, well, they do last long term. Once you built the cells, you keep a bunch of around for many years, and maybe the rest of your life. That's the usual kind of vaccination. The other kind is passive where they just give you antibodies, which are proteins that something else has built to fight this particular disease, and they work right away, but they only last a month or three. So you normally get the active kind. And the active kind does not work right away because it's got to find the few of yourselves that can attack that disease and coax him into cloning and making lots lots more, just like him. How long it takes to work differs for different vaccines. Now the measles is bad. If you get a measles vaccination today, you can expect to have some protection from it in 72 hours. That's a pretty good turn around. There are others that take longer because the details of how the immune system does its thing and the details of the vaccines different so like times. No, there's gonna be one between when you actually get the vaccine. When you're gonna be protected, you might want to look into how long it is. If you're considering a particular vaccine, orphan outbreak starts somewhere else, and you consider a vaccine, then should I get one, Or should I wait and see if it gets worse? That should be part of your calculus. The other thing is the incubation time of the disease, because there's a lag time between when you get exposed to something and when you show symptoms from something, and in some diseases you're not really spreading until you're sick enough that you can notice you're sick for other diseases, you're capable of spreading that sucker around before you're either gets sick at all or before. It's clear that it's more than just head cold, and the longer the incubation time is and the more subtle the symptoms are at the time you start shedding this stuff, the more dangerous it is to go on vaccinated for it. For Ebola. For example, if you were in contact with somebody that had Ebola, they kept you around for three weeks to see if you showed symptoms, because they know that after a week and 1/2 2 weeks, you can start spreading it, and after three weeks you start showing symptoms well. You can get a whole lot of people exposed in that gap between when you start spreading it. When you're overly sick yourself. So the more subtle the diseases and longer the incubation period, the more that ups the reward for earlier vaccination.

spk_1:   23:30
I have Ah, I have something to throw in here, and I don't think I don't know whether I have not read. I don't think you probably from the sound of it, has addressed it in the story. But it's something I think interesting to address, because one of the things that people factor in in taking uh, vaccines is it's not just the risk of getting the disease factors into it. It's how really dangerous is that disease to me or the person I'm deciding for. For example, you have Let's just use a seasonal flu that a seasonal flu, just a regular seasonal flu, the kind they would have a vaccine for. He has very, very small chance of killing me because I'm a healthy adult with a normally act normal immune system.

spk_0:   24:28
Yeah, the real risk is sick.

spk_1:   24:30
In the same time, it would have had a much higher chance of killing her when she was in, you know, suppressed or immuno compromise when she was on the chemo chemo. So that plays in the factor. And one

spk_0:   24:46
of the

spk_1:   24:46
things that I see out there like measles is a really good example, because I hear this question asked by people who don't want to vaccinate. You know how many people have ever died of measles? How do kids have died of measles? Lots. That's the part that I don't think a lot of because the information hitting out there is. Oh yeah, it's just on childhood diseases, not that big of a deal. Measles kill people.

spk_0:   25:13
It's a little lots of low percentage fatality rate. But since almost everybody ends up getting it, if they're unvaccinated and living in an unvaccinated population, even a small fatality rate ends up killing a fairly large number of individuals.

spk_1:   25:29
That's right, Let's say, Let me put it in a who put it in perspective. Let's say you are a fighter pilot, Okay? And you know that just based on the odds. Obviously, statistics don't predict individual cases cases, but but, you know, on the odds you have a one in 100 chance of getting shot down. Okay, you have a one in 100 cans chance of not coming back from this mission. I know, fighter pilot. So say 100. I'll take that risk. I will take that risk because that is a reason why it was Space astronauts. Always gonna think I will take that risk because it is worth it to me to take that risk.

spk_0:   26:14
You don't become a fighter pilot unless that's partier.

spk_1:   26:17
But if that fighter pilot goes out and then flies 100 missions, this does not sound right, because the math gets weird on this a little bit, but he has a 40% chance of getting shot down over that time span. I know that sounds weird, but the math is the math works. Okay? Just trust me on this one. You know, that's a whole different thing, because if you're going to make a career out of it, sooner or later you're gonna catch. And so, you know, these are real numbers. These are really risk, you say. Oh, there's 100 1 in 100 people are gonna die from this disease. I'm not saying that it's not a meeting, it's not. But I'm just throwing this out there as an example,

spk_0:   27:02
but people do die of it. Some

spk_1:   27:05
people, you know, people die of it. You know they do. I know if you think about how many people were killed in the Iraq war, and you're like, OK, I mean, Americans, soldiers. Let's put it that way. I'm not gonna go into the hole. How many American soldiers were killed in Iraq? I don't know the current figures, but, you know, it's somewhere around 5000. Okay, Somewhere around 5000. And we have 350 million Americans. All right, well, I personally know five people American soldiers who I personally know who were killed in Iraq. That's how weird the math gets on some of this stuff. Yes, it's very rare. But you you will end up knowing people who will die from this people you have sat down with on a pile of lumber and had a, you know, a nice conversation with about, you know, their future and where they were going and stuff like that. You know, G ended up being the guy I talked to ended up being one of the numbers. So this podcast is in memory of Sergeant Travis Burkhardt. Good kid tied in Iraq. Truck turned over on him after after he hit a land mine. But anyway, related, it happens. I mean, you know, they're not just numbers, a real people.

spk_0:   28:26
And a related concern is, if you're not concerned for yourself, there are other people in your household who you contact, and you are also less likely to transmit if you're vaccinated.

spk_1:   28:37
And not only that, but these other people who you are not vaccinating. I can give it to their brothers and they're sisters and you. So not only you're putting your one kid at risk that one kid who gets it is probably going to give it to your whole family,

spk_0:   28:56
because it's not. It doesn't have a high fatality rate, but by golly, it transmits like son of a gun.

spk_1:   29:02
So not only are you doing that, you're putting the whole family at risk, and if you're an adult, it's even worse. You don't want to get the measles. You don't want to get any of these childhood dizzy, this quote unquote childhood diseases as an adult in the middle of the mumps or two that you particularly do not want to get, especially if you are male.

spk_0:   29:19
Yeah, there's some places a guy does not want extra swelling. I'm gonna leave it at that. And so the last consideration I did want to bring up is where you live. Because, frankly, if we're talking about a infectious disease that is endemic in Africa or South America or Southeast Asia or Saudi Arabia could be murders. You know, uh, I look around me and I see these farm fields covered with little patches of ice and the occasional farmhouse here and there. There's not a whole lot of people to transmit it to me. It can certainly get out here if an epidemic starts in one of those places. But it's gonna take a while for an epidemic to get out here to the hinterlands. The occasional unlucky small town will get it early because somebody happens to bring it in from a big city quickly. But on average, the small and rural communities get the epidemics late and usually when they've started to wane and strength, and often when exclusion measures are more effective, it is not as risky. If you live in a in a rural area as if you live in a big city

spk_1:   30:33
with one major caveat, they often start in a rural community like, for example, the Amish, because they all go to church together. Kids go to school together. They're very, very tight knit community. That's a very social community. So one gets it. They all get it, and that's it's an incubator,

spk_0:   30:57
but it's Ah, it's a small probability that's gonna be yours, though. Let's

spk_1:   31:01
go, yes, but still. So that's That's what

spk_0:   31:04
they do. And there's less health surveillance in the rural areas. So the epidemics, the outbreaks tend to get a bigger toehold before they're noticed. Which is why the Ebola epidemic and West Africa was so bad in 2014 they just they had 50 health care workers in the whole flippant country. And of course, almost all of those were in the cities. So they had a whole lot of Ebola before anybody recognize they had any Ebola. But in on average, rule areas are better protected against epidemic disease than big cities, particularly big cities that are big airline hubs. So many people fly in and out, and oh man, you want to talk about an incubator where it's a great way to pass germs? How about an international flight?

spk_1:   31:54
Oh my God.

spk_0:   31:55
But those 20 minute turn around on the airplane. Yeah, they're getting all the service is decontaminated and sure, people are going to abort their flight because they don't feel very good there. They're going to give up that $800 ticket and their chance to get home because they've got a little bit of a fever. No, they're gonna lie like dogs and get on the plane and hope for the best, and they're gonna spread it all over the place on. Then it's gonna get passed around the airport and from the airport. It's gonna go home and a bunch of directors with a bunch

spk_1:   32:23
of different people. That's why Cruz, One of the reasons what cruise ships are just get these huge outbreaks. Usually it's the short incubation time ones that really kill the cruise ships like the norovirus norovirus is now, people still get sick from longer term. Things were going on cruise ships, but just about shit, by the time

spk_0:   32:45
harder to track back to where the picnic

spk_1:   32:47
norovirus, which hits quickly spread through a ship like wildfire. Fortunately, it doesn't kill that many people, but it sure kills a lot of occasions who now I will say, I'm gonna have one more thing that I'm sure you didn't cover But that's okay if somebody is my advice to somebody who's not going to vaccinate their Children. If you're an anti vaccine, I think there is a definite correlation of something that you have to dio correlation. That's a definite consequence. The word I'm looking for is it's a way call in fantasy sports. It's called a handcuff, whereas if you get the get a great running back right and he's your star player and he's got a good backup, you also have to get the backup because of your star player goes down. You've got starting the next player coming. It's called a handcuff, so there's a handcuff that goes to me. We're not vaccinating your Children. You're not gonna vaccinate your Children than you need to home school because there is no better way to get a sick child in Sunday school period. The kids do not do any kind of everybody who's been around kids for any any kind of hygiene. Some

spk_0:   34:10
can share everything nicely. Some kids only share their germs nicely, but every kid shares their

spk_1:   34:15
germs all over the place. so if one kid gets into school, chances are half the school's getting it. And is that simple? And if you're not gonna vaccinate your kids, you need to keep him away from there to make. Of course. On the other hand, I'm I'm kind of one of those weirdos. You think homeschooling is a much better idea anyway, But that's me. That's a totally different conversation. Yeah, pressing right along.

spk_0:   34:47
That's one we're not complete agreement with. But, you know, there we go, Joanna. That's when we're not in complete agreement with, but there we

spk_1:   34:54
go. Look at that. You could speed on that corner. You literally could skate on that corner.

spk_0:   34:58
I would enjoy skating on that court if I had some ice skates and that was my corn field. I would be out there sticking that cornfield.

spk_1:   35:04
Looks like Maybe there was. It was there was not a ripple in the surface of that corn. Look at that over there. And, you know, if you fell through, you're going

spk_0:   35:13
to inches. Yeah, it's a perfect place to skate.

spk_1:   35:17
Anyway, we're gonna wrap this up.

spk_0:   35:20
So that's the deal. If you're but the decision, you're gonna make think about what the disease is like, how it transmits, how long it's likely to take to get to you as part of your decision making process. Don't just go. If you blanket, I'm not gonna take any vaccinations, or I'm gonna take all vaccinations. You're probably, uh, not serving yourself best with either one of those options.

spk_1:   35:45
All right, Thanks for listening. And we'll get you the next time.