Speaker 1: Had you actually read the email, you would know that the podcast you are about to listen to could contain explicit language and offensive content.
Speaker 1: These HR experts' views are not representative of their past, present or future employers.
Speaker 1: If you have ever heard my manager is unfair to me.
Speaker 1: I need you to reset my HR portal password, or Can I write up my employee for crying too much?
Speaker 1: Welcome to our little safe zone.
Speaker 1: Welcome to Jaded HR.
Speaker 2: Welcome to JDHR, the podcast by two HR professionals.
Speaker 2: We want to help you get through the workday by saying everything you're thinking, but say it out loud.
Speaker 2: I'm Warren.
Speaker 3: I'm Cece.
Speaker 2: Right, wow, so obviously the office episode still isn't post.
Speaker 2: I am going to spend some time working on it very shortly, but this episode is going to come out before the Office episode does.
Speaker 2: But that'll be next, and our next recording in two weeks is going to be a special one, so stay tuned for that everybody.
Speaker 1: I'm looking forward to it.
Speaker 2: Yeah, let's see here.
Speaker 2: So it's been an interesting.
Speaker 2: You know I'm not going to go into all the details that we've been talking offline and about the interesting two weeks I've had and you've had an interesting two weeks as well, but, wow, shit's getting real sometimes.
Speaker 3: Seriously.
Speaker 2: But anyways.
Speaker 3: It's crazy out there.
Speaker 2: Literally yeah.
Speaker 2: And speaking of crazy, that just blows us straight into one of the topics I was going to see some, some crazy people on.
Speaker 2: Well, I'll start with the baby wombat thief.
Speaker 2: I I I haven't followed the story other than what's on the news, but you see the video.
Speaker 2: She's videoed herself of stealing the baby wombat from its mother and my thing is okay.
Speaker 2: What the hell is she going to do with it?
Speaker 2: You're not going to be able to put it on a plane and take it back to the United States with you or anything.
Speaker 2: Customs is not going to look favorably upon that.
Speaker 3: It's so dumb.
Speaker 3: She was just doing it for clout.
Speaker 3: It's clear that she just wanted social media followers.
Speaker 3: Yeah, like, it's clear that she just wanted social media followers.
Speaker 3: And, oh like, leave it alone.
Speaker 3: And the way the mother was like, oh no, she deserves to be like she deserves diarrhea.
Speaker 2: Oh, I think it should be worse.
Speaker 2: You know, australia should deport her to someplace horrible and not let her go back to the United States, at least immediately.
Speaker 2: And I just, and once again, I haven't seen anything more than what was on the news, but it seems like at first she was snapping back at people who were coming at her for it, and today on the news actually, I saw I spent too much time waiting in the lobby where we have all the news monitors and I see these things and she's apologizing profusely and what has happened is she's getting canceled rightfully so, and yeah, and now, oh my gosh, right, and I don't know how many followers she had, or sponsorship deals or anything like that she might have had, but still, you don't mess with Australia, animals too.
Speaker 2: Half of them are poisonous.
Speaker 2: They're not going to kill you, yeah.
Speaker 3: Half of them can kill you and the others are protected and they take that stuff so seriously.
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, so I mean, just don't mess, Don't touch the animals.
Speaker 3: It's not a petting zoo.
Speaker 3: The world is not your petting zoo.
Speaker 2: Okay, speaking of which, I have a little patch.
Speaker 2: Don't pet the fluffy cows.
Speaker 2: I used to love Yellowstone National Park.
Speaker 2: I probably won't go there ever again in my life.
Speaker 2: It's insanity on steroids, but I love.
Speaker 2: One of my favorite Instagram sites is Torons of Yellowstone, and you see all these people getting way too close to Buffalo.
Speaker 2: There's one not too long ago where Buffalo is charging a dude but whoever's videotaping it sort of runs away before you get to see the person get tossed around.
Speaker 2: And I'm like you know, I'm rooting every time I see those things.
Speaker 2: I'm rooting for the Buffalo, I'm rooting for the bear, the buffalo.
Speaker 2: I'm rooting for the bear.
Speaker 2: I'm rooting for you know.
Speaker 2: Okay, yeah, if you play stupid games, win stupid prizes, and I just love seeing that.
Speaker 2: The same thing applies to this.
Speaker 2: This lady who wanted to do to be become insta famous or whatever with the wombat.
Speaker 2: So oh, and I will say wombats are really.
Speaker 2: If animals in australia are, either really cool and really cute or they are fugly.
Speaker 2: They don't have average animals in Australia.
Speaker 2: Like I said, they kill you or they don't, or they're ugly or they're not, but wombats are.
Speaker 2: They're pretty darn cute animals.
Speaker 3: They're so cute, leave the babies alone.
Speaker 3: But just think about it.
Speaker 3: That would never happen to a human.
Speaker 3: No one's going to come up to me in public with my baby and grab it from me and be like look, how cute it is.
Speaker 3: You would be arrested for that.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you would Kidnapping.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's literally kidnapping.
Speaker 2: So yeah, that's something crazy.
Speaker 2: But also in the news this happened not terribly far from me in Virginia, but the track girl who was having assault charges pressed against her for smacking her now the runner in the head with the baton Now I don't know anything about track and field, I'm assuming they're not heavy like a lead pipe or anything, but you're still smacking and the girl had a concussion and once again found out this sitting in the lobby of my building waiting for a conference room and the girl's on TV crying and I was tripping and I was falling and my and I you know I'm like you were not tripping, you assailed that other girl and I just own up to it.
Speaker 2: You know she's obviously 18 if they're putting her name and everything out there.
Speaker 2: So own up to it, be an adult and grow up.
Speaker 2: And her parents were sitting beside her and I was like, come on, dad, mom, I'm just like, okay, there's no way that was tripping and falling in.
Speaker 2: And now that her name's out there, just like the wombat baby thief, you know who's going to want to hire this person.
Speaker 2: You know a crime is someone who physically lashes out at people.
Speaker 2: It's, it's crazy.
Speaker 2: And add another little twist into it.
Speaker 2: I've mentioned before, I spent 15 years as a baseball umpire and I.
Speaker 2: I worked high school, I worked college, I worked, you know, I, I went up the ranks and I one of the reasons I got out of it is just the shenanigans and the ridiculousness is getting to the extreme Now and the shenanigans seem to be more the lower down the food chain you go, the more shenanigans you get, the mommy and daddy drama.
Speaker 2: And I pay, we pay over $15,000 a year to play baseball and da da da.
Speaker 2: Okay, good for you.
Speaker 2: That doesn't mean you, the rules change and stuff like that.
Speaker 2: But the shenanigans, when you get to competitive high schools, you know the shenanigans die off very quickly and in college, once again, there's less of it.
Speaker 2: It goes down and most of the shenanigans are harmless.
Speaker 2: You're not going to have, you know, people doing things like that.
Speaker 2: Or I never accounted for it at the college level or even upper level, high school level, but you know the sports and parents.
Speaker 2: It just made it.
Speaker 2: It took something I loved to death and it made it something.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I thought I'd have a harder, a bigger problem leaving it and you know I haven't done it in six, seven years and don't miss it.
Speaker 2: Oh, that's pity yeah.
Speaker 2: So yeah, I just thought of that, Like what you just said.
Speaker 3: I was watching some content creator just kind of like snarking on another content creator, but the person that he was talking about is a train wreck.
Speaker 3: Like she is just an alcoholic train wreck but makes a shit ton of money on like tiktok and surprise only fans oh boy and like the wish no judgment.
Speaker 3: You know, you do you?
Speaker 3: But at the same time, like he made this comment so flippantly, he was like I mean you, you want to get your daughter back.
Speaker 3: Why are you making only fans content?
Speaker 3: Why don't you get a normal job at a company?
Speaker 3: And I'm like, oh, like, I think it's really hard for people to like, once you're out there, especially with this individual who has, like I don't know, like hundreds of thousands of followers and it's kind of becoming infamous for some of the shit she's doing.
Speaker 3: It's hard just like flip a switch one day and be like, oh, I'm gonna work at a corporate job because it's just, it's not that easy, like, if your name is out there, whether it be something infamous or something you know off the beaten path, like only fans, like it's hard just to you know, turn on a straight path and go to corporate.
Speaker 3: Like unfortunately, yeah like people are on the internet.
Speaker 3: People know things, it is difficult Once you become famous.
Speaker 2: I mean, look at the lady who called the bird watcher a racist and called the police.
Speaker 2: Nobody knew who she was.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, put the internet sleuths on her, bam.
Speaker 2: I mean instantly.
Speaker 2: Everybody knew who she was and you may use a pseudonym or something like that online, but you know, if you do something stupid then people are going to find you and it's you know.
Speaker 2: I see this meme probably once a week on Instagram or Facebook and the meme is some kids talking and remember before OnlyFans, when your mom only sold Avon.
Speaker 2: I think that's funny, but yeah, anywho, so wow.
Speaker 2: But we are going to talk about HR today.
Speaker 3: Yeah, we are.
Speaker 3: That was our Around the World in five minutes.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Well, okay, we just talked about this a little, while you and I both seem to miss the boat on this, the the husband and wife work wife cards.
Speaker 2: Work husband work wife cards out there.
Speaker 3: For Valentine's Day.
Speaker 2: On for Valentine's Day and I'm like I I must've been under a cave or whatever during the Valentine's Day and I'm like I must have been under a cave or whatever during the Valentine's Day thing.
Speaker 2: But it pulled up in my algorithm and I'm seeing it everywhere.
Speaker 2: Hr Manifesto posted it.
Speaker 2: I've seen it so many different ways.
Speaker 2: I'm like wow.
Speaker 3: For a second.
Speaker 3: I thought it was like you just explained it to me.
Speaker 3: I didn't see anything yet and I was like my visceral reaction was just like uh-uh-uh.
Speaker 3: And then I had a moment where I was like maybe I'm overreacting, maybe this is just something funny, and then it was worse.
Speaker 2: It was worse.
Speaker 3: Because I didn't realize that the cards were being sold in Hallmark and crap.
Speaker 3: And I'm like, are you effing serious?
Speaker 3: That's insane.
Speaker 3: I hate it.
Speaker 3: I'm not a jealous type, but if my husband came home and was like, hey, look what my co-worker gave me, I would tear his eyeballs out or someone's eyeballs out, Like no, well, that would be my fear, even if I got it for a co-worker that I'm close with or something, having their significant other come and hunt me down.
Speaker 2: I've learned the hard way I'm not a fighter.
Speaker 2: I've learned that the very hard way.
Speaker 2: I'm not the fighter.
Speaker 2: And unless I have 30 fraternity brothers with me, then I can be yeah, yeah, but one-on-one, nope, not going to do it.
Speaker 2: But that's what I'd be afraid of.
Speaker 2: I give you a card like that to you.
Speaker 2: Kevin's going to come and wring my neck, he's going to drive cross-country.
Speaker 2: And I'm like, no, yeah, exactly Now, if I were to get one.
Speaker 2: My wife was like, good, take him.
Speaker 2: But anyways, I loved it.
Speaker 2: I think we just watched the meme together, the little HR manifesto.
Speaker 2: It was like, oh no, don't spend $4.95 to get yourself fired.
Speaker 2: And I thought that was the best line you could say about that yeah, don't spend $4.99.99.
Speaker 2: But on a relate note, we just got past, we survived.
Speaker 2: Did everybody survive st patrick's day with no pinching in the workplace?
Speaker 2: That is so funny.
Speaker 2: I well, I, I personally work from home, so yeah, oh yeah, I have not ever dealt with it, but I've heard a couple of times of people having to deal with pinching at the workplace.
Speaker 2: Oh geez people.
Speaker 3: Just don't touch people, just don't touch them.
Speaker 2: Yeah, don't touch people.
Speaker 2: Oh, let's see here.
Speaker 2: So last episode I was talking about my little drama employee calling me from their tax office or whatever to needing their stuff.
Speaker 2: But I've seen in uh jamie at uh hr besties once again.
Speaker 2: She had this great meme about be nice to your payroll and hr people just because you get fucked is you didn't do your taxes right.
Speaker 2: Uh, and she.
Speaker 2: She was much nicer about it than I was.
Speaker 2: You know, that's not our problem.
Speaker 2: I haven't experienced this in some time, but I have been there when y'all have fucked up my taxes and I owe all this money and all that.
Speaker 2: Like, oh, did I fill out your W-4 for you?
Speaker 2: Do I know what your?
Speaker 2: Maybe you've got OnlyFans that you're earning money from they send you your 1099, and now you've got to pay a lot of taxes.
Speaker 2: That's self-employment.
Speaker 3: You got to claim that OF that OF income.
Speaker 2: But I don't know what their situation is.
Speaker 2: And on top of that, this is I've seen this, not recently, but I've seen it before HR people online talking about we're not tax professionals, y'all.
Speaker 2: And by telling people how to fill out their forms, I will give high level advice.
Speaker 2: The more exemptions you claim, the less they take out, and I will.
Speaker 2: If someone puts exempt on there, I will say are you sure you want to do this?
Speaker 2: We might want to look into it.
Speaker 2: But if they say sure, I'll let the exempt say exempt and I'll be waiting for that lock-in letter from the IRS.
Speaker 2: But in however many months it takes them to get around to it.
Speaker 2: But we're not tax experts.
Speaker 2: And on top of that I was talking to someone else about this Companies have errors and omission assurance and things like that, but that only applies if you're working within the scope of your work.
Speaker 2: So if I'm doing my job and I don't know I do something wrong, bad, illegal and it gets us sued, the company has errors and emissions insurance on me, but it will not apply if I'm doing something I'm not supposed to be doing, like giving tax advice and things like that, because it will say, no, you're not working the scope of your job and you will be responsible for it.
Speaker 2: So HR, payroll people, even if in your prior life you are a CPA, you're not acting as it at work.
Speaker 2: Don't give that tax advice.
Speaker 2: I've seen that too many times and I just stay away.
Speaker 2: Stop Danger, will Robinson Danger.
Speaker 2: So anyway, you know this is a strange episode because we both did our homework ahead of time, so we've got a Google Doc of all of our stuff here.
Speaker 2: Well, I'll jump ahead to your thing.
Speaker 2: What you pulled up, I really like this when you sent it to me.
Speaker 2: So let's talk about resumes.
Speaker 3: So resumes.
Speaker 3: So every once in a while you see one of those articles come up by some expert who has his top five ways of his or her top five ways of doing everything right, and it came across me, like my browser.
Speaker 3: It was like, hey, business Insider posted this.
Speaker 3: Oh no, not Business Insider, I know.
Speaker 3: And I was like what?
Speaker 3: And apparently Ethan Evans says that he has viewed over what is it?
Speaker 3: 10,000 resumes and had more than 2,500 interviews.
Speaker 3: And why do we care about what Ethan Evans has to say?
Speaker 3: Because he's done this for so many years at so many companies, including Big Daddy, amazon.
Speaker 3: So he basically put out what the top things that we should be doing on our resumes.
Speaker 3: So I'm going to be honest with you.
Speaker 3: I started reading this with a little bit of a jaded eye I'm like another listicle, but honestly I kind of agree with a lot of what he says.
Speaker 3: So the number one thing is like no results, only activities.
Speaker 3: To.
Speaker 3: According to the article is that people tend to just list the things that they are responsible for.
Speaker 3: So like I wrote code or I managed people or whatever it might be, but people aren't putting results on there.
Speaker 3: And I was like, oh, like, so smart.
Speaker 3: So basically, like if you could link your results to or to what you've done that actually improved the company.
Speaker 3: It shows your value.
Speaker 3: Another thing is like if you have that stuff tangibly that you can share, link it to your resume which is funny, because I never even considered that.
Speaker 3: I was like, oh yeah, idiot.
Speaker 3: Like, link your award, link your stuff there so people can click on it and see, like all this tangible stuff.
Speaker 3: But yeah, like I thought, award, link your stuff there so people can click on it and see, like all this tangible stuff.
Speaker 3: But yeah, like I thought that that was brilliant.
Speaker 3: That's it's not even like brilliant, it's more like really common that people don't do, especially as you get up the up the ladder in your career and go into more specialized roles or more senior roles like those results are so important.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and like you, when you sent this, I started reading it as a jaded thing, especially when I get to the line.
Speaker 2: I've reviewed more than 10,000 resumes and conducted more than 2,500 interviews.
Speaker 2: If you're getting 2,500 interviews out of 10,000 resumes, damn, one out of four you're good, but but anyways and then of course they throw the the companies, as everybody has to put the the company they they did.
Speaker 2: You know, nobody would know the names of any of the companies I've worked for, but you know I spent nearly 10 years recruiting.
Speaker 2: I can't imagine how many hundreds of of thousands of resumes I've reviewed, or thousands of resume.
Speaker 2: But I don't work for either the cool Fang companies Now that I'm cool enough to know what Fang is, kind of so.
Speaker 2: But you know that that's something in being so early on that made me, that heightened my jadedness.
Speaker 2: But then it goes on in there and and one of the, the second line of the articles recruiters skim resumes quickly.
Speaker 2: So clarity and conciseness is crucial for success, absolutely.
Speaker 2: I've seen things where you have less than 10 seconds to make an impression.
Speaker 2: I think you might even have less.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I pull up a resume, I skim it real quick and if it doesn't make me want to actually go beyond skimming into reading, you're gone.
Speaker 2: You're in the next pile and I do this when I'm hiring.
Speaker 2: I have an A, a, b and a C pile and A my first time through A is going to be like the hard.
Speaker 2: I probably will have one or two A's in there, if even the B's are okay and then the C.
Speaker 2: I'll revisit them, the Cs, if I don't have any luck.
Speaker 2: But I just go through, go through.
Speaker 2: And yeah, you don't have much time and yeah, I agree with some of these mistakes.
Speaker 2: Yeah, like I said, he says your resume has to be optimized to catch the eye quickly.
Speaker 2: The goal is for them to skim it.
Speaker 2: Think about, think it would be worthwhile to interview you.
Speaker 2: Just catch the eye.
Speaker 2: Just catch the eye and not with your photo.
Speaker 2: I don't want that.
Speaker 2: Don't put a photo.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 3: So one of the other things is like okay, so this one I'm kind of about.
Speaker 3: But he says people don't put objectives and that's kind of an issue.
Speaker 3: So basically saying, without an objective, a recruiter or a hiring manager has to guess whether or not you want the job.
Speaker 3: If someone's applying for a job, they want the fucking job, but anyway.
Speaker 3: But yeah, but I get what he's kind of saying and he's just basically saying, like an objective, clearly state what kind of role you're looking for in your next role, and just make it concise and easy to read in a single glance.
Speaker 3: So I, you know, I don't know how you feel about objectives I rarely read them and if I do, it is just like a really quick glance.
Speaker 3: I don't put a lot like.
Speaker 3: I didn't put a lot of thought into them when I was recruiting, but I don't know, that was the only one that I was like eh.
Speaker 2: Well, I highlighted that in green, as you see in the notes, because I agree with that, because that objective, if it's tailored to the job and specific, it'll make me stop and it'll make me go from skimming to reading with it.
Speaker 2: So I like that idea.
Speaker 2: But, as he says, you have to be specific about it.
Speaker 2: Seeking a senior roles engineer dah, dah, dah, dah dah and don't do the what does he call it?
Speaker 2: The good job things you know.
Speaker 2: He gives an example somewhere in here of a bad, a bad objective.
Speaker 2: But, yeah, just, you know, put it out there.
Speaker 2: I like the objective.
Speaker 2: But here's something else about me If you take the time and effort to send a cover letter in, I'm reading, I will read the cover letter.
Speaker 2: And because there's so many things that people are going to put in cover letters that they're not going to put on the resume hey, we're in a military town.
Speaker 2: Hey, I'll be relocating to the Virginia Beach area in June of 2025.
Speaker 2: If you put that in your cover letter this is why I see you're from San Diego, california If I see that San Diego, california and I have a physical position in Virginia Beach, unless you're stellar, you're probably going to go somewhere else.
Speaker 2: But if that cover letter says, hey, I'm relocating here or hey, I'm making a career transition or I'm reentering the workforce or something along those lines.
Speaker 2: Because, like I said, if someone takes the time to write a cover letter, I'm going to read it.
Speaker 2: Now that cover letter may not make you even get me to your resume if you have a shitty cover letter.
Speaker 2: But if it's a fill in the blank or blank, or even the worst is the wrong company names and things, and I'll forgive that but it's going to be hard.
Speaker 2: If everything else is good, I'll forgive that, but I do like the objective.
Speaker 3: That can turn me from a glancer to a reader.
Speaker 3: Yeah, no, I get it.
Speaker 3: I agree with you.
Speaker 3: The funny thing is is I just realized when I interviewed for the position at my current role, like three years ago, I actually put an objective in there.
Speaker 3: I just realized that, hey it worked, it worked.
Speaker 3: So you know what I take it back.
Speaker 3: It's not stupid.
Speaker 2: Oh, here's an example of a bad one Motivated self-starter looking for a positive environment where I can bring my technical skills and passion to a worthy project.
Speaker 2: A great coworker and mentor, adaptable, fast learner.
Speaker 2: I mean those platitudes, yeah, exactly, I don't want to see that.
Speaker 2: I want to see give me two sentences of what you're looking for and yeah, that's what I like about that.
Speaker 2: So, and then another thing, and I never thought about this I've been very fortunate.
Speaker 2: I have to do a resume in a very long time, but keep your resume under a thousand words.
Speaker 2: I like that.
Speaker 2: I'm trying to think how you know, is that one page?
Speaker 2: No, it's like how many words go on a page?
Speaker 2: I don't know.
Speaker 2: I used to know is that when in high school you had to do this, but he also did say don't use, don't cram it all in, and things like that.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 2: So he says his resume is 700 words and covers a 30-year career.
Speaker 2: So, yeah, that's important.
Speaker 3: That sounds about right.
Speaker 3: Oh, and then this is one that I hope we would all know is optimizing for the applicant tracking system.
Speaker 3: I did like the little percentage in there that says over 80% of jobs go to someone with a networking connection to the role, and I was like whew, so that's a lot.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and I think that's overstated Mike from Corporate Pizza Party.
Speaker 2: I would want to say it was him.
Speaker 2: I meant to look it up on his Instagram.
Speaker 2: He put a stat and actually cited his source, I believe, about.
Speaker 2: If it was him about, you know, not as many jobs are coming from networking as you think, and so you know.
Speaker 2: I think 80% is ridiculously high.
Speaker 3: That is very high.
Speaker 2: I do track at my company.
Speaker 2: I think it's very good.
Speaker 2: About 30% of our new hires are results of referrals and things like that, and we just hired someone who is a result of a network.
Speaker 2: He worked for a company that one of our suppliers, who supplied one of our suppliers or I guess, no, our supplier supplied his company as well.
Speaker 2: He became available and the supplier said, hey, you've got to contact my company where I'm working and get in with them, and so that type of networking worked.
Speaker 2: But it wasn't a direct connection.
Speaker 2: You know one of our current employees, it was our suppliers that know you need to work with this.
Speaker 2: So that made me feel good on a couple of counts when when I heard that story that our suppliers are even recommending us to people they know.
Speaker 2: But but cramming I've seen resumes before that.
Speaker 2: I think they're trying to fit every buzzword and keyword in there and you've all heard put in white font to your all these keywords don't do that that that's garbage.
Speaker 2: I think if you just have a well-written resume especially today with AI and stuff we don't use AI in our applicant screening or anything but you write a good resume, it's going to stand out.
Speaker 2: You don't have to try and find all the buzzwords and stuff them in there and make your resume 700 words of buzzwords to do that.
Speaker 2: So there's a balance that needs to be done.
Speaker 2: But I think a well-written resume is going to stand for itself.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and that's what he said.
Speaker 3: Like I think we're too focused on the applicant tracking piece and that, like I like how he said it.
Speaker 2: He he's like just write your resume for human eyes, because yeah in his and if you're worried about ai, as ai is getting better and better, it's going to be able to putting it in human eye.
Speaker 2: Making it read, readable for human eyes is going to help you it will let's see.
Speaker 3: Another mistake is listing education and certifications in the wrong place.
Speaker 3: So, yeah, so if you're a new graduate, you put your education at the top.
Speaker 3: If you have work experience, your education should be below work history.
Speaker 3: And then which is funny because like no one told me that weird rule so someone, I think, informed me a few, probably like seven or so years ago, eight years ago.
Speaker 3: They're like you really need to, like you're at your place in your career where you need to put your education at the bottom, and I was like what that's like a rule, because apparently that makes you look like a novice.
Speaker 2: Well, I see it a couple ways.
Speaker 2: And if you do your homework, you know who you're speaking to.
Speaker 2: Maybe in networking, like, okay, I went to East Carolina, I love East Carolina.
Speaker 2: It's not the most prestigious of schools.
Speaker 2: My wife went to a much more prestigious school than I did.
Speaker 2: I'm probably keeping that school at the top of my list because that's going to open more doors for me, even if you're not an alumni.
Speaker 2: You say, oh, you know, it catches the eye.
Speaker 2: Once again it's something that's going to make me stop if I see someone from you know this school versus UCU which, like I said, love it.
Speaker 2: I'm still a student and things like that.
Speaker 2: I love it.
Speaker 2: But there are prestigious schools and there are less prestigious schools and if you're coming from one of those, it doesn't have to be a networking alumni type thing.
Speaker 2: It's like, oh, you know, in the business world, you go to, let's just say, the Wharton School of Business, you go to the Darden at UVA.
Speaker 2: Nobody on earth, regardless of your sports affiliations, team affiliations, can argue those aren't some of the top.
Speaker 2: And you can go on and on, but those are the two that popped up on the top of my head first.
Speaker 2: But nobody can argue those are not the top, some of the top tier of business schools.
Speaker 2: If that's what you're going for in the country, and that's going to catch somebody's eye in many regards.
Speaker 2: But that also goes to customize your resume.
Speaker 2: Know what you're going for, who in many regards.
Speaker 2: So, but that also goes, customize your resume.
Speaker 2: You know.
Speaker 2: Know what you're going for.
Speaker 2: If this experience does well for you, you know, highlight, move it to the top of your bullet list, because if you got 15 bullets under a job, I'm not getting in that skim.
Speaker 2: I'm looking at one or two and if it's your 15th bullet, I don't have a clue what you just said Under there.
Speaker 2: So, and if it's your 15th bullet, I don't have a clue what you just said, true, under there.
Speaker 2: And then it talks about GPA.
Speaker 2: I remember coming out of college I put my N major GPA.
Speaker 2: I did not put my overall.
Speaker 1: GPA.
Speaker 2: Because I failed theater and appreciation.
Speaker 2: Not once, but twice.
Speaker 2: I failed what we called library science.
Speaker 2: Ecu's library they've got a new one now, but in the 90s was so effed up you had to take a two-hour class on how to use the libraries.
Speaker 2: There wasn't internet back then, or the internet was in its baby stages, and I failed that class.
Speaker 2: I recently looked at my transcripts.
Speaker 2: I'm like, oh shit.
Speaker 1: How did.
Speaker 3: I.
Speaker 3: What were you learning there?
Speaker 2: Like dewey decimal system no, like okay now, if something was on floor three you go to when you get into the quote-unquote, the stacks, and you do not always want to go into the stacks of the shit that happened.
Speaker 2: The stacks is a whole another story, but I've seen things, that's after dark?
Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly, but if you were on floor three and you were in section 100, you would have to go, but you need to go to 200 in the day.
Speaker 2: You'd have to go back down to the ground floor and go back up to the third.
Speaker 2: The library was built in sections and very non-congruent and like, yeah, we'll put this here, we'll put there.
Speaker 2: But now they've got a.
Speaker 2: I mean, they got a like I don't know, 10 years ago some huge grant for a new library and it has some of the old library in it.
Speaker 3: Their library was so crappy they had to create a course on how to deal with the crappy library.
Speaker 3: That's funny.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, but I failed that course.
Speaker 2: I failed.
Speaker 2: Okay Funny story I failed remedial math three times in a row.
Speaker 2: I decided I was going to do it over the summer, away from there.
Speaker 2: But the school made me take a placement exam.
Speaker 2: Okay, I took my May final exam in remedial math and failed.
Speaker 2: The morning of a certain day, whatever day it was, I drove home and went where I was going to take classes over the summer.
Speaker 2: They made me take the placement exam.
Speaker 2: And not only I got placed into calculus.
Speaker 2: After failing remedial math three times, I got placed in the calculus.
Speaker 2: My confidence level was shot.
Speaker 2: So I took pre-calc.
Speaker 2: I got an A in pre-calc and I'm like what the fuck?
Speaker 2: How do I fail remedial math?
Speaker 2: It was a non-credit class.
Speaker 2: It was worth three credits but didn't count to anything as it's remedial.
Speaker 2: It didn't go to your graduation requirements and so it was just a thorn in my side forever, that one class.
Speaker 2: And yeah, I failed a lot of classes and for two years I led my fraternity in gpa.
Speaker 2: So that's hilarious I can pay a lot of classes and lead my fraternity in gpa, but anyways, that's a whole, whole, nother story.
Speaker 2: But anyways, yeah, your your gpa.
Speaker 2: This one I found interesting.
Speaker 2: The next one, the hobby, excluding hobbies and interests.
Speaker 2: I that made me.
Speaker 2: This one actually made me think when I saw that.
Speaker 2: So what are your opinions on hobbies and interests?
Speaker 3: Okay, I have an anecdote with a point.
Speaker 3: So, when I was working in talent acquisition, there was an applicant who was going for a marketing role.
Speaker 3: Now, granted, it's a marketing role, it was so appropriate for her to do what I'm about to describe.
Speaker 3: But thinking back, I'm like I still remember this person's resume.
Speaker 3: I remember their name, I remember.
Speaker 3: Every time I'm like like there's something to it.
Speaker 3: So this individual completely branded her resume, like she treated it as if it was a personal brand, through, true and through and through.
Speaker 3: She branded it.
Speaker 3: She made a logo because she had a pug and she loved her pug.
Speaker 3: The.
Speaker 3: The her logo involved the pug.
Speaker 3: So she had, like her, everything on her resume as you usually would.
Speaker 3: And then she had like little thick ticks on the side of like hobbies and stuff like that and everything was color-coded.
Speaker 3: And her business card that she was to leave afterward she made into, like she took those candy dog bones and she put them in a candy wrapper and then she took the card.
Speaker 3: She had it specially printed so that when she folded it in half and stapled it and actually packaged it, it looked like it was the actual size of a business card but it looked like a packaged candy that you would buy in a store.
Speaker 3: So to this day I'm like I remember Julia, I remember her pugs, I remember her other hobbies that she listed Brilliant.
Speaker 3: And so when I read this I was like, yeah, like it's that humanizing piece that I think is super important.
Speaker 3: I don't hate it.
Speaker 3: I think if you have room on your resume because you know that's high real estate, go for it.
Speaker 3: I don't think it could hurt you Like, yeah, run marathons, put it on there, like whatever.
Speaker 3: I think it's smart.
Speaker 2: See, I have mixed feelings and you sold me much more towards the included, but I think people have to be a little careful about what they put on you know number one in OnlyFans, or on the resume or whatever.
Speaker 1: I'm a top earner in my MLM.
Speaker 1: Like don't do that in there.
Speaker 2: Yeah, but you need to use some discretion.
Speaker 2: But I will say, since I'm not really actively involved in recruiting but I do all the onboarding for all the new hires, I spend a day with them essentially, and the Friday before they start I go through and I read their resumes top to bottom.
Speaker 2: If they had a cover letter, once again I didn't recruit them through and I read their resumes top to bottom.
Speaker 2: I look at every.
Speaker 2: You know, if they had a cover letter, once again I didn't recruit them.
Speaker 2: But I read their cover letter, I try and learn about them.
Speaker 2: And you know there was a guy who won some competitions for a sourdough Nice and we turned breaks, we talked about that and it did like I said, it did humanize this person I hadn't met before.
Speaker 2: You know it's Friday evening, before I leave, that's before an orientation, before someone starts on Monday.
Speaker 2: That's why I do Friday evening or afternoon I'm scanning the resumes, looking, seeing, I'm looking at interview notes, if there are any that were taken, and just to see what the person's about.
Speaker 2: And yeah, those type of things do stand out.
Speaker 2: So I'm not going to hate it.
Speaker 2: But if you don't make it fit, then that's another thing.
Speaker 3: I will say the one thing I did learn from Julia's resume wherever you are Julia, hello.
Speaker 3: You are julia, hello.
Speaker 3: But I will say like I really put some effort into branding my resume to the point where my resume is different, like I have a whole color palette that goes with it and it's green, because green is like the color of innovation and stuff like that, and I'm like, so I'm very.
Speaker 3: I started to get a little purposeful about using a little splash of color and intentionally using it, so it's not like an eyesore or anything, right, but yeah, I think that also helps you stand out a little bit too.
Speaker 3: Just, not everything's black and white.
Speaker 2: Put a little color in there.
Speaker 2: I will say, though, if, in our applicant tracking system, when I pull out a resume, unless I actually download it and look at it as the PDF that was sent, our ATS basically pulls the text out, so I won't see any of the color, I won't see any of the graphics or any things like that.
Speaker 2: And why?
Speaker 2: How often do I download and print somebody's resume, or download it at least to see it in the actual PDF file, versus the, the preview that's in the ATS?
Speaker 2: I mean, the formatting generally holds up in the, the ATS, but the no colors or images seem to to make it through there.
Speaker 2: I don't know, it's fine, but I would miss out on that, and I think part of that you mentioned that person was marketing.
Speaker 2: I think if you're marketing, you do something like that, you're winning right off the board.
Speaker 3: You're so winning.
Speaker 2: Yeah, there are some jobs.
Speaker 2: You know computer well, maybe computer programmer or something.
Speaker 2: I'm trying to think of something that is less creative or what have you I don't know a statistician or something like that.
Speaker 2: Maybe you're not going to an actuarial accountant or something along those lines.
Speaker 3: I don't know, maybe they could put a secret message in binary code or something.
Speaker 2: Yeah, put something out there that draws your attention to the resume.
Speaker 2: But yeah, I thought that was a good article and for Business Insider I'll give it a thumbs up.
Speaker 2: As I'm very cynical about Business Insider, maybe one day I'll start trying to throw up some crappy articles.
Speaker 2: See if I can get published in Business Insider.
Speaker 3: Yeah, apparently, ethan Evans had some really good points here, so good job, ethan.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, it's very rare that A like I said, if I see Business Insider, unless I'm being a glutton for punishment, I'm moving.
Speaker 2: I'll read the headline and move on.
Speaker 2: But yeah, maybe I need to not be so cynical.
Speaker 2: But that sort of leads us to another topic.
Speaker 2: And you read the article.
Speaker 2: I didn't.
Speaker 2: My news aggregator sent me this headline from Business Insider I've never heard of anything like this before.
Speaker 2: Former Google HR chief reacts to Meta's block list.
Speaker 2: And so I didn't read the article.
Speaker 2: But I'm like, and then if you use Google News for aggregator or anything like that, it gives you three other articles on the same thing Medics, company lists, blocks, employees and their whatever.
Speaker 2: And I'm like, so I didn't read it.
Speaker 2: You, you took the dive and you found out a little bit, because I'm thinking how many every ATS, yeah, or HRS, has an option to make someone a non-rehirable, whatever you want to term it, and things like that.
Speaker 2: I'm like, if you want to call it blacklisted people, or blocklisted as he calls it, dude, you're so not rehirable, click and uh, or eligible for rehire, no, I've.
Speaker 2: I've done that hundreds of times in my career and never thought twice about it.
Speaker 2: So, oh, but here's a funny story.
Speaker 2: So I worked somewhere, my, my, someone underneath me ended up taking my position after I left.
Speaker 2: But I, when their co-workers left us without giving notice and just basically they walked off the job and I put the HRS at that company.
Speaker 2: I put non-rehirable and this person was so nice, she calls me.
Speaker 2: I noticed you put this person and did not rehire.
Speaker 2: What should I do?
Speaker 2: I've talked to her and things like that.
Speaker 2: I said it's your HR manager now, not me.
Speaker 2: If you want to do it, uh, have at it.
Speaker 2: I, I just you know.
Speaker 2: Uh, I said you were, you were right there.
Speaker 2: She walked out on us and I was like will she walk out on you?
Speaker 2: Maybe, maybe not, but uh, I just said you know, uh, it's, it's your show now.
Speaker 2: So yeah.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think it worked out better between the two of them.
Speaker 3: Nice.
Speaker 3: I think you're right that when I first read it, that was the thing I immediately thought was that a lot of companies have do-not-hires.
Speaker 3: But as I was Looking into it, it looks like a bunch of people were laid off in 2022 and 2023.
Speaker 3: And some people, due to those layoffs, as jobs came available, they were trying to reapply, and some of these people were finding out during their application process.
Speaker 3: The recruiter would then turn around and be like oh, I didn't realize, you're not rehirable in the system, which a lot of people were confused because these are individuals who didn't have any prior performance issues.
Speaker 3: They were laid off due to, like, a business decision, not due to performance or due to anything you know bad.
Speaker 3: So it's very interesting that there's this secret block list of individuals who they let go.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and now, knowing I I have heard of companies that you know what I'm thinking of predates this story.
Speaker 2: It was an IT company and they were known at the time.
Speaker 2: You leave them, you're basically dead to them and you're not getting another job if you want to come back, that's one thing, but I was saying if they were laid off.
Speaker 2: I think, especially in this day and age of hiring people, finding people at a premium and one of the things I was really good at at another company is I sought out when I was recruiting, I sought out former employees.
Speaker 2: Hey, how are you doing?
Speaker 2: We have a position we want to talk to you about again Contacting your former out of the blue they didn't send a resume or anything and trying to draw them back.
Speaker 2: If they left on good terms.
Speaker 2: They weren't on the block list.
Speaker 2: But you know, I just find it hard to believe and maybe you know because it's meta and of course, the Business Insider picture shows this awful picture of Mark Zuckerberg looking like, I don't know, somebody just kicked his dog or something like that and he's angry, that's another thing I love about business.
Speaker 2: Poor, sad billionaire.
Speaker 2: Exactly, but I love when the pictures they use are like that.
Speaker 2: But yeah, I think it's short-sighted.
Speaker 2: But maybe Facebook, google, all these companies maybe they have so many people wanting to work, be in a thing company that they get so many applications they don't care too much.
Speaker 2: They quoted Business.
Speaker 3: Insider, but apparently a director was actively trying to rehire a senior engineer and the director expressed frustration about this block, this hiring block, and said that it was preventing them from rehiring multiple people that they hoped to recruit back onto their team.
Speaker 3: That they hoped to recruit back onto their team.
Speaker 3: In an email viewed by Business Insider, the manager expressed frustration that they couldn't figure out why someone they wanted to rehire and had ended up on the block list in the first place.
Speaker 3: It seemed that they were running into a mechanism outside of normal recruiting tools and that they had not seen anyone successfully get off this list and be able to join or be able to interview at the company again.
Speaker 2: Oh, that was what I was going to ask.
Speaker 2: This is not carved in stone at my current company and put someone as do not hire and then a manager comes back to me.
Speaker 2: I'll engage the conversation and most of the time it's not me making the decision that somebody's not re-hireable, anyways, it's their manager doing it.
Speaker 2: Me, I've done it, I've done it any number of times, but the vast majority is the manager like this clown's done with us or something like that.
Speaker 2: But if a manager come to say, hey, you know, I'd like to hire john doe again and like, okay, well, he's, mark, do not hire what?
Speaker 2: And then you have the conversation you know, maybe, or they in a bad time in their life and you know who knows.
Speaker 2: So, yeah, I, I don't, I, I do not mind having a do not hire list, but I also think there needs to be some judgment that the person's prior manager wants to rehire them.
Speaker 2: Okay, they know what they're getting into more than anybody else.
Speaker 3: So yeah, that's pretty crazy, though, was that people former employees that uh said that they reapplied for a role after the layoffs, not because they liked meta, but because the pay was good, and this is the quote.
Speaker 3: It's the worst company I've ever worked for, but they also paid the best, and if I could get in there for a couple more years and make bank, I would do it.
Speaker 2: Okay, then that's not getting you off the do not hire list.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: And actually.
Speaker 2: I worked at it for exactly one year.
Speaker 2: I worked at a temp agency and not only did we have a do not hire list, but we had what we called a GPR.
Speaker 2: In that rehireable GPR, the good company's name started with a P.
Speaker 2: What is the R stand for, I don't know, but they were a representative.
Speaker 2: So if we and we would like when I would go into the ATS like we have a position, I'd look and see.
Speaker 2: Oh, I'd first go to our GPRs, because a lot of the people that I would mark as GPRs were people who only wanted to do temp work and they only want to do like, hey, I'll do two weeks here, and then you know I don't want to work for three months again.
Speaker 2: And I would just call them, hey, I've got this thing.
Speaker 2: And they'd tell me, no, I'm like OK, fine, but I knew that when I did put them somewhere, they would go in and kick ass and do well and things like that.
Speaker 2: So there is a flip side to the do not hire list as well that I've actually personally experienced.
Speaker 3: I'm probably on Starbucks.
Speaker 3: Do not rehire.
Speaker 2: Oh, got to hear the story behind that one.
Speaker 3: I think I told this story before.
Speaker 3: That was like the only time in my life where I walked off a job because the manager pissed me off so much.
Speaker 3: But yeah, like it was.
Speaker 3: I was a shift supervisor and she had asked me to work on a night that I requested off because I had an exam that this was college.
Speaker 3: I had an exam the next day.
Speaker 3: And she was like too bad, so sad.
Speaker 3: And I was like, okay, I guess I'll do it.
Speaker 3: But then I found someone to cover my shift and while I'm at home like studying, I get a phone call from this manager out at a bar, like a few shots in being like you need to get back to the store because so and so he said he would cover your shifts but he has no authority to do so.
Speaker 3: And I'm like, excuse me, and she's like I don't know, she's like if you don't get back there, he's gonna get fired and that'll be on you.
Speaker 3: And I was like so I went back to the store because I actually like, like the guy, he was a good like, he was a friend, and so, yeah, the next day I came in and I was like, fuck you.
Speaker 3: I didn't say that I basically threw the keys on the counter, I'm like I'm quitting, and she's like when.
Speaker 3: I'm like today, and she was like you have to get your shifts covered.
Speaker 3: And I remember just looking at her and being like you're the manager, so I guess you're going to have to manage that.
Speaker 2: And I, like you, know Starbucks has such a bad reputation and I know someone who loved their time working.
Speaker 2: I loved my time working there.
Speaker 3: I did like to this day, loved it.
Speaker 3: I, I still, you know, drink, drink the, drink the coffee, drink the Kool-Aid.
Speaker 3: But but, oh, I could go down a rabbit hole right now and be so excited that they're bringing back third place and that they're doing for here, coffees again.
Speaker 3: It's, it's a brilliant move.
Speaker 3: Great, the CEO is, I think, is moving in a good direction.
Speaker 3: But, yeah, that manager was just a nightmare and she she was, it was clicky and she had her best friends working there and she was very immature, like I don't know how she got promoted into that role, um, but yeah, like she was just, uh, an asshole.
Speaker 2: So yeah, well, one thing I was amazed at when my daughter was in college.
Speaker 2: She worked retail and the they had an app and if you wanted to give up a ship, pick up or give up, they had an app.
Speaker 2: You.
Speaker 2: And if you wanted to give up a shift, pick up or give up, they had an app.
Speaker 2: You could go in and put your you're still responsible until someone else covered it.
Speaker 2: But when someone else checked that box I'm taking this shift then you were off the hook and I loved it.
Speaker 2: I love that idea and my daughter loved it as, hey, I don't have anything going on.
Speaker 2: She would just log in and say, oh, I can work tomorrow, I can work later this afternoon, and other people didn't mind.
Speaker 2: Now she got talked to once about her overtime and I'm like I told her you know, okay, but if you're accepted, their system has some rules.
Speaker 2: It didn't allow oh, you have too many hours, you're not going to, we're not going to allow you to do this.
Speaker 2: But that's not her fault, but someone you know your, your cashier, shouldn't be worried about how many hours a week they're working if they could do it.
Speaker 2: So I just found that app.
Speaker 2: I loved that technology, I love the thought behind it and I was like that's it, man.
Speaker 2: I wish I had that when I was a teenager, because I would have been the guy who's picking up shifts if I could.
Speaker 2: Hey, it's Wednesday night, I'm not doing jack, so maybe I'll just make a couple bucks tonight.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I will say I did skim over the part.
Speaker 3: I don't know why.
Speaker 3: I'm like this is an HR audience.
Speaker 3: The point why, he quote unquote.
Speaker 3: The point why he quote unquote couldn't work was because he was going into overtime and that's why and she had originally given the okay of switching a shift, because we're like I'm switching shifts with so-and-so or not switching, but he's picking up my shift and she's like, cool, cool.
Speaker 3: But I think she had realized while she was out drinking that that him working was going to put him into overtime and that was probably a shitty situation for her as a store manager.
Speaker 3: So for her then to have turned it around and been like he's gonna get fired, so you better get back there, and if you don't, then his firing is going to be on you is like no, you are going to get your hand slapped by the district manager and this is the bullshit.
Speaker 3: You did so anyway, that's crazy.
Speaker 2: I can't imagine the manager saying somebody else's termination is going to be on another employee his blood is on your hands.
Speaker 3: Anyway looking back on that, I'm like, oh no, you're just saving your ass.
Speaker 3: And I really, in hindsight, like no, he wasn't going to get fired.
Speaker 3: I wasn't going to get fired.
Speaker 3: I should have just told her I was unavailable and hung up my phone.
Speaker 3: But, you don't know this stuff.
Speaker 3: If you're like a college student working an hourly, hourly, part-time role and you've never been exposed to, like you know, the HRE, labor-y side of work, like you don't know your rights, you don't know how things work, so you just take what your manager says at face value, no matter how wrong they are.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's absolutely.
Speaker 2: That's absolutely true.
Speaker 2: And that's why you get some of these companies that do, especially, unfortunately, when you're dealing with high school, college level kids who don't know any better and they don't know how to stand up for themselves and say no when they should.
Speaker 2: And you get the a-holes who take advantage of them multiple ways, and it's just no yeah of them in multiple ways and it's just no yeah, that's yeah.
Speaker 2: Thankfully for our little babe when she gets to be that age and gets a part-time job she'll have two HR parents to let her know what her rights are and she can stand up for herself.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, my kids, my daughter, doesn't come to me too much for advice on the job.
Speaker 2: You know, I've reviewed, I review her resumes and I help her and I mock interview with my kids and things like that.
Speaker 2: But, and, and the thing is, mock interview with me, I, I'm, I'm fucking brutally honest and they're not getting any sugar.
Speaker 2: Oh, you did so well, daughter.
Speaker 2: No, not quite, but anyways.
Speaker 2: So if that is you, please remember to be like our Patreon supporters and follow the show notes links for all the places you can support us or follow us on social media.
Speaker 2: Not that I've posted anything in forever, but we do want to thank our Patreon supporters Hallie, the original Jaded HR rock star, bill and Michael.
Speaker 2: So thank you all very much.
Speaker 2: Yep, the intro and outro music is the underscore orchestra, devil, the devil and Andrew Culpa does the intro.
Speaker 2: So, as always, I'm Warren, I'm Cece and we're here helping you survive HR one.
Speaker 2: What the fuck moment at a time.