Speaker 1: Had you actually read the email, you would know that the podcast you are about to listen to could contain explicit language and offensive content.
Speaker 1: These HR experts' views are not representative of their past, present or future employers.
Speaker 1: If you have ever heard my manager is unfair to me.
Speaker 1: I need you to reset my HR portal password, or Can I write up my employee for crying too much?
Speaker 1: Welcome to our little safe zone.
Speaker 1: Welcome to Jaded HR.
Speaker 2: Welcome to Jaded HR, the podcast by two HR professionals who want to help you get through the workday by saying everything you're thinking, but say it out loud.
Speaker 2: I'm Warren.
Speaker 3: I'm Cece.
Speaker 2: All right, back again, whee.
Speaker 2: So the last few episodes other than well.
Speaker 2: I could hear it in the Office Rewatch podcast episode that your voice wasn't as strong then, but now it's my turn to be sick.
Speaker 2: But I'm actually getting over it.
Speaker 2: But yeah, I counted out.
Speaker 2: This is only the seventh time in my entire career from the 90s and almost 30 years of calling out of work.
Speaker 2: Career from the 90s and almost 30 years of calling out of work and so like, not planned call, not a planned day off or anything like that.
Speaker 2: So my body's weird.
Speaker 2: It tends only to get sick on weekends.
Speaker 2: It's like Wednesday, I feel.
Speaker 2: You know, I feel something strange is coming on by Friday.
Speaker 2: I was like, oh shit, I'm going to be sick on Saturday and Sunday and of course I'll be fine on Monday to get back to work.
Speaker 2: But this time I was not fine and of course I was Tony off air.
Speaker 2: That ruined my wife's mother's day, because the first mother's day where neither of our kids are in the house.
Speaker 2: So that was a traumatic experience by itself.
Speaker 2: But we also invited my in-laws over for brunch for Sunday morning, mother's Day and I was unable to participate in the prep or cook of that said brunch, and so I am in the doghouse now for being sick and I want to be in the doghouse for a little while.
Speaker 3: Oh, what a weekend.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it was, but I did go visit my mother and it wasn't an awful trip.
Speaker 2: I usually do not like going visiting my mother, but I'm a good son, I do my duty.
Speaker 2: It's like I've said before, I'm a needle phobe.
Speaker 2: I go to the doctor, I get my shots, I get.
Speaker 2: I've said before I'm a needle phobe, I go to the doctor, I get my shots, I get.
Speaker 2: You know, I gave blood last week.
Speaker 2: I'm O negative, so everybody wants my blood and I do those things I'm supposed to.
Speaker 2: Oh, giving blood, this is the first time ever.
Speaker 2: Like I said, I'm a needle phobe.
Speaker 2: I don't like it.
Speaker 2: This dude took three times to get the needle in and I was like just an instant away from saying screw this, I'm out, I'm going home.
Speaker 2: I was like you know you didn't want to do my blood pressure at the moments before that third stick.
Speaker 2: You know they take your blood pressure and do all this stuff before you give blood and you did not want to take my blood pressure before that third stick because, yeah, it would have been really not a good thing for that so yeah, yeah, but you had a good mother's day I did, yeah, I.
Speaker 3: The only thing I wanted for mother's day was a day to sleep in, and that's what I got I got.
Speaker 3: I slept in till like 11, which if you have a cusp of a toddler it's difficult, so I slept in.
Speaker 3: My husband, Kevin, got me these breakfast sandwiches that I really like.
Speaker 3: He also got Starbucks delivered to the house.
Speaker 3: It was great.
Speaker 3: And then my parents came over, which was great in and of itself, but it just kind of turned into me and my mom just prepping side dishes Like, granted, okay, they grilled, Fine.
Speaker 3: But then there's like the prepping of this and I think we just need to normalize letting moms go out and golf on Mother's Day.
Speaker 3: Like why are we doing this?
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2: I usually try and do something nice for my wife on Mother's Day, Like last year.
Speaker 2: I remember her favorite.
Speaker 2: She laughs at me.
Speaker 2: I even go to Dunkin' Donuts.
Speaker 2: I'll ask for the Homer Simpson donut, the strawberry glazed with sprinkles.
Speaker 2: The sprinkles, they know what you're talking about.
Speaker 2: You don't have to say strawberries glazed with sprinkles.
Speaker 2: I say I want a Homer Simpson Gotcha, you know, and even where I live in the middle of nowhere, we've got a Dunkin' Donuts.
Speaker 2: It's in a gas station but it's a Dunkin' Donuts.
Speaker 2: Hey, it still counts.
Speaker 2: And came back and had it ready for her Breakfast in bed.
Speaker 3: A donut, donut in bed.
Speaker 3: That's all I wanted and that's exactly what I got.
Speaker 3: I got to sit in bed and doom scroll.
Speaker 3: So here's the sucky part, though this weekend being the baby, she just had horrible teething I think the molars are coming in and she was inconsolable for I don't know like two days just nonstop screaming and crying, which was very out of the norm for her.
Speaker 3: But I did feel bad just leaving Kevin to just a screaming child.
Speaker 2: So you know, I had a nice blissful morning.
Speaker 2: You didn't feel that bad.
Speaker 3: I did not.
Speaker 3: No, I'm lying.
Speaker 3: I did not feel bad, it was fine.
Speaker 2: You got over it very, very quick.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I got over it.
Speaker 3: The baby she's fine, she's happy now Look, everyone's fine.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so Well.
Speaker 2: Glad you had a good Mother's Day.
Speaker 3: So yay, oh, I forgot to tell you the best news.
Speaker 3: Like we got a kitten oh, I saw we got a kitten.
Speaker 3: so I don't I don't know if I shared on the podcast.
Speaker 3: Actually it was very traumatic.
Speaker 3: We had the love of our lives, this cat.
Speaker 3: His name was munson and he was just a soulmate cat.
Speaker 3: Like you know, when you have one of those pets in your life, that's just.
Speaker 3: You'll never forget that pet.
Speaker 3: So he was that for us and he he sadly passed away.
Speaker 3: He had feline diabetes.
Speaker 3: He had.
Speaker 3: We had to put him down.
Speaker 3: It was traumatic in the sense that, of course, this happened when Kevin was traveling for work and he is primary human, so it was just me alone at the vet's office making this decision.
Speaker 3: It was insane.
Speaker 3: So anyway, that happened a few weeks ago, I would say like a couple months ago, maybe.
Speaker 3: Yeah, in any case, we decided to get a new baby, so he is a Maine Coon.
Speaker 3: He is going to be big.
Speaker 3: He's already like super large for being five months old and his paws are huge Does he have six toes.
Speaker 3: He does not.
Speaker 3: No he does not.
Speaker 3: He's not a six-toed cat, but he just has huge paws, like he's going to be a little lion.
Speaker 3: So I love him so much.
Speaker 3: He's so sweet.
Speaker 3: He slept next to me all day today in the office.
Speaker 3: He's just a little lovey.
Speaker 2: He's going to me all day today in the office.
Speaker 2: He's just a little lovey.
Speaker 2: He's going to turn into a big lovey.
Speaker 2: I saw you've got a Maine Coon.
Speaker 2: My paternal grandparents and they both passed away.
Speaker 2: They ended up a Maine Coon cat adopted them.
Speaker 2: Like this cat would come into their garage and my grandmother or grandfather would go out and broom and swish it out and yell at it and, you know, kick it out and then it just kept coming back and coming back and coming back.
Speaker 2: Next you know they're leaving some food on the back patio for it and next thing you know it's in the house and it's theirs and they named him mr kitty.
Speaker 2: He was a giant maine coon cat and he had the six.
Speaker 2: He was a giant Maine Coon cat and he was a Maine Coon with six toes, on the front paws only.
Speaker 2: He had six toes and he was just a giant cat and he owned the house.
Speaker 2: He owned the neighborhood, but no matter.
Speaker 2: I mean I actually watched my grandmother go after him with a broom one time.
Speaker 2: I'm like there's no way this cat will ever come back.
Speaker 2: And yet there he was.
Speaker 2: He was like I'm determined this is going to be my house and like they put flyers up, found cat.
Speaker 2: Like nobody wanted to claim him, it wanted their house, it was going to be theirs and it ended up being their house, their cat, for many, many years.
Speaker 2: He lived an awful long time.
Speaker 3: The cat distribution system.
Speaker 2: It worked just as planned.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that brought back memories when I saw the baby Maine Coon cat.
Speaker 2: Love them.
Speaker 2: So I've got two HR stories and something else.
Speaker 2: I'll probably save that for the end.
Speaker 2: Something else at the end, but why don't we start off with this dress code violation?
Speaker 2: So this comes off LinkedIn.
Speaker 2: I don't know the date, as it says published 10 minutes ago when I copied and pasted, but obviously it wasn't.
Speaker 2: It's from Karen Michael.
Speaker 2: Follow her on LinkedIn, follow her on her website and she has a blog, a podcast as well.
Speaker 2: So follow her.
Speaker 2: Very funny.
Speaker 2: I hope to have her as a guest.
Speaker 2: I've talked to her and we'll see what we can do, but I'm just gonna read this it's it's not that long or read it for word for word.
Speaker 2: I wish this was a video podcast that we could show the pictures, because it really does make it, you know, make it stand out.
Speaker 2: But you can go on Karen Michael on LinkedIn and see the story.
Speaker 2: I'll read a word for it.
Speaker 2: This could be a total fake, by the way, but let's play along for a minute.
Speaker 2: A woman claims she was fired on her first day on the job for wearing this.
Speaker 2: See pictures below.
Speaker 2: She said her video that she subscribes to the look good, feel good, and she wanted to feel pretty so she could be confident and give a good first impression.
Speaker 2: But clearly that backfired.
Speaker 2: Her new boss called her over and she thought her boss was going to compliment her on her outfit.
Speaker 2: But the boss started berating her and told her how inappropriate her outfit was for the work and she needed to change.
Speaker 2: The employee claims to have been insulted and stood up for herself in a respectful manner.
Speaker 2: She told the manager that she was used to envious females and she used to is used to females being super jealous of her, and that she could sense the manager's insecurity.
Speaker 2: The manager told her to go home and not come back allegedly.
Speaker 2: Whether this is attention-seeking, fake or not.
Speaker 2: After 32 years of being in workplaces, I've concluded the workplace, today more than ever, lacks accountability, self-awareness, boundaries, respect for professionalism.
Speaker 2: If this woman is really telling the truth, then she needs to learn a lesson.
Speaker 2: And this isn't about you.
Speaker 2: And now I officially rescind my bring your authentic self to work comments.
Speaker 2: Just come to work and assimilate to culture and bring your best ideas, skills and knowledge.
Speaker 2: Agree, disagree, and I will try and describe this young ladies.
Speaker 2: My wife hates it when I call this people little girl.
Speaker 2: It doesn't say what her?
Speaker 2: Oh, I don't know.
Speaker 2: It doesn't tell her age.
Speaker 3: This individual.
Speaker 2: This individual, so let's call this a super mini skirt, it's.
Speaker 2: She's going to have a hard time sitting down in this mini skirt.
Speaker 3: I would have gotten sent home from high school if my skirt was this short.
Speaker 2: Because it doesn't reach your.
Speaker 2: It's shorter than your finger.
Speaker 2: It's shorter than your fingertips.
Speaker 3: It's shorter than fingertip length.
Speaker 3: You're going home.
Speaker 2: And she's wearing some boots to her knees in this zip-up sweater vest that's zipped halfway down, showing ample amount of cleavage, and her bare midriff as well bear midriff as well and I'm like, really you thought that that would be a good outfit to wear to work.
Speaker 3: So I hope I will say this is, this is a tick, so okay.
Speaker 3: So I do know I've done a lot of research on this, and by research I mean drinking wine on my couch and going down TikTok rabbit hole.
Speaker 3: This is fake, but it's not so.
Speaker 3: The creator that we're looking at is a content creator, but she spoofs things.
Speaker 3: So she was making fun of something that was really happening and she says, in there point of view, you dress like an office siren at your corporate job and you got fired and oh my gosh, this was fantastic.
Speaker 3: This was a few weeks ago.
Speaker 3: It's the office siren trend that was going on in offices as people were returning to work, and it was really going on with new to career individuals who, like, let's just say, are mostly Gen Z and they were getting a lot of ill advice from TikTok.
Speaker 3: And there was this trend called the office siren trend and literally it was mainly young women and they were wearing very provocative clothes that, in their terms, romanticizes the workplace, that reminds them of early 2000s sitcoms.
Speaker 3: So, for those of you who are listening, if you can remember the movie, the Devil Wears Prada basically what's her name?
Speaker 3: She's all bunch in this character.
Speaker 3: She has like the sexy librarian glasses and her hair's up in a tousled bun and she's dressed, like you know, very fashion forward.
Speaker 3: And so a lot, of, a lot of women in the workplace who are again career, a lot of which have never worked in an office before, and I think we have to remember now that I'm talking out loud a lot of these people have never worked in an office, they've only seen it on TV.
Speaker 3: So now that they're returning to the office or they're working more in the office, they're taking ill advice, or ill advice from these influencers, and these are like literally a lot of midriffs, a lot of low-cut, low, low, low, low cut blouses, a lot of short, short skirts and knee-high boots, like just things that would make you go like huh if they walked in as an hr person or, you know, as a co-worker in general.
Speaker 3: But but yeah, so anyway, there was this lore of the Internet where apparently this person had an internship.
Speaker 3: Now apparently they said again, I did a lot of research, I was it was yeah, this is here.
Speaker 3: But apparently the lore was that this individual had a internship that had a guaranteed position after like two years, and after two years the internship would turn into a full-time role and would be at 100K, which, for a college intern, like score right.
Speaker 3: And the individual came to work dressed just like you could imagine this picture that you and I are looking at right here and the HR person called them in the office and basically told her that she was in violation of dress code and she was terminated and go home and she, like lost out on the internship, she lost out on the 100k, whatever.
Speaker 3: All this to say like one like I think there's two ways you can look at this.
Speaker 3: One if I was like the HR business partner or the HR person and this person walked in my office, clearly not knowing the lay of the land, clearly you can see that this is probably the first time that they're in an office would that be a final out?
Speaker 3: They're in an office?
Speaker 3: Would that be a final out for you?
Speaker 3: And I think yeah, like would that be a final or would you have coached the situation?
Speaker 2: Oh man, I think you can watch all the you know 90s, early 2000s rom-com office set things and see people dressed somewhat similar to this.
Speaker 3: Very Rachel Green from Friends.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, but you, there has to be some common sense in there too.
Speaker 2: Do I think it should be instantly termable?
Speaker 2: Probably not, but it's going to really set a bad tone for their first day in their first week If they think that their career of management depending on who's upset about it in upper management it might be it might as well fire them, because they may not ever be able to recover from this.
Speaker 2: So I'm really, I'm really torn on this.
Speaker 2: Do they think they're able to come to where I I hope somebody doesn't think that that's acceptable to go to work like?
Speaker 3: I really hope not.
Speaker 2: I would, but I've told the story before.
Speaker 2: I was brand new at a.
Speaker 2: I was working at a CPA firm and it was, if it wasn't my first week, it was my second week, and the rest of the HR team was away on something they pre-planned.
Speaker 2: They were going to go out and I just happened to start, so I was the only HR person in the building when a partner calls and he doesn't know who I am and his directions to me were get your ass over here and tell Britney Spears that this is not a nightclub and she needs to put some clothes on.
Speaker 2: And I'm like I'm a recruiter, I'm not, I don't do these things, but you have a senior partner yelling at you to do this and I was like, oh gosh.
Speaker 2: So now did she look like this?
Speaker 2: No, is she.
Speaker 2: It was borderline professional.
Speaker 2: What she wore, I wouldn't.
Speaker 2: I can't even describe.
Speaker 2: I can't.
Speaker 2: You know.
Speaker 2: It was probably 2003 when this happened.
Speaker 2: I can't even describe.
Speaker 2: I can't.
Speaker 2: You know.
Speaker 2: It was probably 2003 when this happened.
Speaker 2: I can borderline, I don't think.
Speaker 2: I think it was a blouse that was open, too deep, and I think it was capri type pantsuit that was maybe a little more form fitting than most of the other people were wearing it.
Speaker 2: Most of the other people were wearing it and you know, I I did talk to her and I said, look you, you know I hadn't.
Speaker 2: I wasn't even one recruiter.
Speaker 2: Like I said, I only started two weeks before.
Speaker 2: So I was like, yeah, you know, I just want to let you know that there are some people here that aren't appreciating the way you're dressed today I said, if you could I I had to think this.
Speaker 2: I'm thinking this all through my mind.
Speaker 2: How do I say this?
Speaker 2: Because first, a guy say being a dude in HR, this is like one of those worst case scenario situations where you have to talk about attire with a woman and things like that.
Speaker 2: And it was like, yeah, there's some people here who don't appreciate the way you're dressed today.
Speaker 2: People here who don't appreciate the way you're dressed today.
Speaker 2: They said you know, just, you know why don't you just stay in your cube for today and be sure to be a little more conservatively dressed tomorrow?
Speaker 2: and her company policy yeah, but there was nothing in that violated a dress code.
Speaker 2: Honestly, there, it wasn't.
Speaker 2: It was just she did the outfit up a little bit more yeah better than you know other people yeah she wasn't as traditional so yeah, so that was like.
Speaker 3: That's the one end of it, is like, as hr, how would you handle a situation?
Speaker 3: Because I feel like if we were to follow more it's a coachable situation it wouldn't have been an immediate, termable offense.
Speaker 3: On the other side, it's kind of you alluded to it before.
Speaker 3: I'm thinking like, at the end of the day, you're going to be remembered as the person who dressed like that, like that's who you're going to be remembered by and if you're cool with that, okay, but just understand that, yes, if, if we're going by the story of like look good, feel good, live, laugh, love, there's like, yeah, you're free to do what you want, but at the same time, it's not free of consequences.
Speaker 3: So, exactly, and I did, I'm going to be honest with you.
Speaker 3: I had a couple like in my 20s, like early in my career.
Speaker 3: I had a couple or one particular person pull me aside and give me feedback on me showing too much of my cleavage at work and I was incensed because I was like in my 20s and I'm like who does she think she is telling me she wears lower cut like shirts than I do?
Speaker 3: She just happens to be flat chested but at the same time, I think the advice she gave me was kind of the best advice.
Speaker 3: Hey, listen, like you have a lot of, you're a very smart person, you have a lot of really great ideas and you're such a value to this company.
Speaker 3: Like, I'm afraid.
Speaker 3: I think she said I'm afraid that your messaging will get lost because people will be distracted by, like, how you're dressed.
Speaker 3: And I was like, hmm, I fucking hate that.
Speaker 3: She's kind of right.
Speaker 2: It's true.
Speaker 3: And I'd hate to say it.
Speaker 2: It's probably more so for women than it is for men.
Speaker 3: It is, it is.
Speaker 3: It is Because I will say I don't think in all of my I don't think in all of my career I have ever heard of a man being pulled to do an office and being told that the way he is dressed can be a negative reflection of his professionalism.
Speaker 3: What do you guys have?
Speaker 3: Polos?
Speaker 3: You got vests.
Speaker 3: If you're in finance, like, what do you got?
Speaker 2: Well, I will say I wanted, I'm not going to.
Speaker 2: I'm not the dress code police.
Speaker 2: Hr should not.
Speaker 2: If the manager and the team have a problem with it, they can bring it to me and I'm actually going to probably push it back.
Speaker 2: Okay, here's what you need to, how you need to address it with your employee.
Speaker 2: It's not my employee, it's your employee.
Speaker 2: But there was this one guy I worked with, a very nice guy, but he always looked like he just came out from a refrigerator box on the side of the road.
Speaker 3: He looked like a bag of shit he did.
Speaker 2: I mean, first, the dress code policy did say no torn jeans, no torn pants, anything, nothing torn.
Speaker 2: His favorite pair of pants were these like shredded pants that had, like I don't know, only 40% of the material left in them and he wore those all the time.
Speaker 2: And he wore graphic tees all the time.
Speaker 2: And if we didn't have a policy, graphic tees weren't against our policy, but it wasn't our culture either.
Speaker 2: There's nobody who wore graphic tees and our dress code is so bad I'll go ahead and say it.
Speaker 2: I mentioned before a couple of my co-workers listened to this, so they know who I'm talking about but our president violates the dress code, if you take it verbatim.
Speaker 2: And it's always been on my to-do list that I want to redo the dress code and make it more modern.
Speaker 2: But in our company, dress code's not an issue.
Speaker 2: That's the only person I can think of that I can think of.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you didn't.
Speaker 2: He's no longer with us, but you didn't.
Speaker 2: I'm not going to be the dress code police.
Speaker 2: But as long as their manager wasn't saying anything to me, I was like, ok, it's, it's your, it's your thing, but it's dress code.
Speaker 3: Or forcing them.
Speaker 2: They're important, but they, they suck just the same.
Speaker 3: They are, and especially if you work in an environment that has, you know, health and safety things like, oh, closed-toed shoes and, like you know, whatever, like that kind of stuff, it's super important, super important for dress code.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I don't, I don't know.
Speaker 3: Just, you know what?
Speaker 3: Just don't, just wear clothes and do your job.
Speaker 2: Wear correct clothes and do your job.
Speaker 2: Buddy, yeah, wear correct clothes and do your job.
Speaker 2: Wear, wear correct clothes and do your job buddy, yeah, and do your job.
Speaker 3: I will say we were going through that awkward phase of going from business casual attire to wearing jeans to work.
Speaker 3: I will say I'm a jeans person through and through, especially in an office environment.
Speaker 3: If it's a culture that is like finance or something like that, where you're dressed in a suit every day, do not don't even reach out for me, like don't even reach out to me for an open position, like I don't know.
Speaker 3: But there's, like this one of the one of the I think it was the COO, the, yeah, coo.
Speaker 3: He was hissed that we were put bringing jeans into the dress code because he was very old school and he just believed that the work environment is to be you have to dress professionally.
Speaker 3: And he came in one day to kind of protest the gene implementation and he came in these raggedy jeans that were torn and just looked like crap and he was like, yeah, like this is what it's going to look like every day.
Speaker 3: I hope you like it.
Speaker 3: Like this is what people are going to come to work at, just being a dick about it.
Speaker 3: And then, of course, the dress code passed and everyone was thrilled and people for the most part are I're not like they're gonna use common sense for the most part and he went out and again, this is someone like why would you do this?
Speaker 3: He then went out and really leaned into it and he bought a pair of like 180 jeans and like a couple like really expensive jeans just for work, because those are his work jeans.
Speaker 3: And then he like started talking about how much money he spent on it.
Speaker 3: And I'm like dude, you just stop, just stop, just stop bragging about the money you spent on your jeans.
Speaker 2: Like just go back to your office so I have one more dress code story before I go to switch topics.
Speaker 2: It's from my wonderful brother.
Speaker 2: He is the perpetrator in this story.
Speaker 2: He spent the first I don't know how many years of his career he was when he was a captain in the army.
Speaker 2: He'd spent more time deployed than the other captain in the whole US Army.
Speaker 2: So you get little stripes on your dress uniform for every six months deployed.
Speaker 2: And then he got promoted to major and he graduated from Virginia Military Institute and he saw a job opening for military science instructor at VMI and applied for it instructor at VMI and applied for it While he was in I don't know if it was Iraq or Afghanistan, I don't remember exactly where.
Speaker 2: They flew him out of theater, as they say, all the way to Baltimore, maryland, to interview him.
Speaker 2: And he's going along his whole life thinking he's interviewing for this military science professor at VMI and they flew him back to wherever he was coming from and things like that.
Speaker 2: He's there for a few more months and they said okay, we're hiring you, you're going to West Point, he's going to be a military science professor at West Point, the United States Military Academy, and he didn't really want that, but it made him non-deployable for so many years and he was sort of looking forward to that not being deployable and things like that.
Speaker 2: So anyways, he goes and he's doing a great job and everybody loves him and all that other fun stuff is a higher up.
Speaker 2: Now, at this point he's a major.
Speaker 2: And at some point somebody pulls him aside and says, okay, you know, one of the reasons you were hired is because you're so highly decorated.
Speaker 2: And you know he only wore like five ribbons on his service, ribbons on his uniform.
Speaker 2: And you know we want you to.
Speaker 2: You know, we think the students will be impressed by your ribbons, your credentials, et cetera.
Speaker 2: And he says they're going to be impressed with your ribbons, your credentials, etc.
Speaker 2: And he says they're going to be impressed with me because I'm their professor not because I am there, because I have all these ribbons.
Speaker 2: And they just told him oh, we'd like you to wear more ribbons than what you do.
Speaker 2: He said, well, these five or six are ones that actually mean something to me, so I'll just stick with that.
Speaker 2: And he said, no, you are going to wear your more ribbons.
Speaker 2: And he said, well, the military dress code doesn't say I have to and you are wearing it.
Speaker 2: So my brother, in his full you know being a complete a-hole that he can be for like two weeks in a row came in to work at West Point wearing his dress tuxedo.
Speaker 2: In to work at West Point wearing his dress, tuxedo and with the full ribbon and metal, not just the ribbon on his chest but the ribbon and the metal and all the accoutrement he could manage.
Speaker 2: He said he looked like a South American dictator walking down the halls there.
Speaker 2: And he did that for two weeks and then he went back to wearing what he was going to do and nobody said a peep to him ever again about wearing his, his stuff.
Speaker 2: He said I put every metal, every little accoutrement, every little whatever you know, participation award ribbon they, they give you.
Speaker 2: He said I put them all on and but he did not last very long at west point.
Speaker 2: He, that was his least favorite deployment in 24 years in in the army.
Speaker 2: So that, yeah, he, he re-upped once there and then he said nope, I'm not.
Speaker 3: I can't do it anymore.
Speaker 3: I love a story that involves malicious compliance.
Speaker 3: So you want me to wear a ribbon, I'll wear all my ribbons.
Speaker 3: Oh, if ribbons like down in the street, oh, or ribbons from Michael's, I don't care.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, you want ribbons?
Speaker 3: I'll give you ribbon.
Speaker 2: Oh, so the other story I had is you know, we're just past May the 4th.
Speaker 2: We're what?
Speaker 2: Nine days past May the 4th.
Speaker 3: It's the holiest holiday of the year.
Speaker 2: The holiest holiday of the year.
Speaker 1: It's for me.
Speaker 2: Did you sit there and have yourself a Star Wars marathon?
Speaker 3: I did not this year.
Speaker 2: And do you skip episode two, the Jar Jar Binks?
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 3: I do.
Speaker 3: Oh my God, I've never done it.
Speaker 3: We're going to go on a Star Wars tangent really quick.
Speaker 3: I forget what it's called, Okay, so I don't know if you?
Speaker 3: For those of you who are not Star Wars fans, please forgive me for the next minute, but it is called Machete Style.
Speaker 2: Yes.
Speaker 3: Yes, so it's episode four, five, then you skip to two and three, so it's almost like a flashback situation, and then you go back to episode six and then you can do like the last trilogy, but completely omit episode one.
Speaker 3: That's what we omit, because episode one is garbage.
Speaker 2: Is that the Jar Jar Binks?
Speaker 3: one, that's the Jar Jar one.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Oh, okay, I thought it was two off the top of my cheek.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I've watched it so many different ways.
Speaker 2: It's crazy, but I think our fans like Star Wars because one of our all-time favorites when we had Dolores the Empire's Evil.
Speaker 3: Hr person that was one of our high time.
Speaker 3: Dolores.
Speaker 2: Listen.
Speaker 3: She's doing the work, she's doing the work, she's doing the work.
Speaker 2: I would love to go to one of the Comic-Con type things and meet her in person.
Speaker 2: How?
Speaker 3: funny.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so yeah, I've watched the machete style before as well, so yeah.
Speaker 2: But I will have to say Rogue One is one of my favorite Star wars movies and I I would agree it was, it was so different for the franchise in a positive way.
Speaker 2: And yeah, yeah, so it's rogue one is is still my, my favorite and I'm looking forward to.
Speaker 2: You know people are hating so much on all the new star wars stuff I could not get through the Young Rebels, was that what it was called?
Speaker 3: Yeah, I didn't watch that one.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I couldn't get through it.
Speaker 2: I'm trying to finish Andor right now.
Speaker 2: I was trying to watch it while sick, on Saturday or on Monday, while I was home from work.
Speaker 2: I tried watching it, but I wasn't paying enough attention work.
Speaker 2: I tried watching it, but I wasn't paying enough attention and or is a a show, you have to pay attention, almost intense attention, to the whole thing.
Speaker 2: You can't look at your phone for five seconds, because you will, you will get there.
Speaker 2: But I've watched all the.
Speaker 2: I love the cartoons clone wars and rebels, I'm all about those.
Speaker 2: Those are actually damn good things, but anyways, yeah, so, anyways, going on to star wars here.
Speaker 2: So this person her name is lorna rook, she's in the uk somewhere.
Speaker 2: She's a blood donation supervisor and apparently sometime in her absence, her team filled out a star wars-themed Meyer-Briggs test for her and she came out to be Darth Vader.
Speaker 3: Which?
Speaker 3: Listen.
Speaker 3: He's a flawed person, but he has his strengths.
Speaker 2: He's a great leader.
Speaker 3: You know what he's a leader.
Speaker 3: He's a great leader.
Speaker 3: You know what he's a leader.
Speaker 2: He's a leader.
Speaker 2: I like when he's like force choking this dude, and he says he's such a great leader, he lifts up those around him.
Speaker 3: You know what the mark of a great leader is?
Speaker 3: Those who can lift their team, lift those around them.
Speaker 2: Okay, my first.
Speaker 2: If I were to get some sort of superhuman power, my first would be the Thanos snap.
Speaker 2: I would be snapping like a freaking jet West Side.
Speaker 2: Story I'd be snapping and like stupid people.
Speaker 2: I'd be just snap, snap, snap, snap everywhere.
Speaker 2: It wouldn't be just a random 50%.
Speaker 2: And the second thing I'd want I'd be just nap, snap, snap, snap everywhere.
Speaker 2: It wouldn't be just a random 50%.
Speaker 2: And the second thing I'd want I'd want the force choke.
Speaker 2: I would want to be able to choke someone from across the room without even getting the, maybe even on a Zoom call.
Speaker 2: You're across the country on a Zoom call with me and you're ticking me off and I can just choke you out from 3,000 miles away, more than Obi-Wan's mind control.
Speaker 3: These are not the droids you're looking for.
Speaker 3: That's what I want.
Speaker 3: I want to be able to manipulate people.
Speaker 2: Oh, I can manipulate them that got dark.
Speaker 2: Pain's a great motivator, but anyways.
Speaker 2: So the team got a good laugh out of this.
Speaker 2: She did not.
Speaker 2: And what happens when someone gets their feelings hurt?
Speaker 2: Now in the United States we have snowflakes.
Speaker 2: This takes snowflakes to the newest level.
Speaker 2: I don't know what's worse than a snowflake.
Speaker 2: She sued and she won over 29,000 pounds and I didn't do the math to figure out what that is in American dollars, but she cut 29,000 pounds with it.
Speaker 2: A legal observer said it's not about Darth Vader.
Speaker 2: It's about respect, consent and trust in the workplace.
Speaker 2: It sends a message.
Speaker 2: Even playful team activities can pack serious consequences if boundaries aren't respected.
Speaker 1: So I think that first of all, this is all for 38 thousand dollars, 38 600 in us 36 nonsense
Speaker 3: yeah take away half to pay your lawyer to do this.
Speaker 3: Was it worth it?
Speaker 3: This is why we can't have nice things, and this is also like you are acting very Vader-ish.
Speaker 3: I mean, you are proving the point Well see, I disagreed.
Speaker 2: I didn't think she's acting Vader-ish and I didn't know the term for these creatures, but I had to ask AI what's the most timid creature in the Star Wars universe?
Speaker 2: And it came up with the Docma.
Speaker 2: And they pray for a larger, spider-like Kirka on their home planet, etylon, further indicating vulnerability in timidity.
Speaker 2: Boy, I can't speak, but yeah, I don't remember them, but they're in Star Wars, rebels and other shows and they look like Gary from SpongeBob actually is what I would call them.
Speaker 2: They would look like Gary from SpongeBob, but I couldn't say that that's a dogma.
Speaker 2: But maybe I was thinking, maybe a porg, something like that, that people have more relevant, have seen more relevant.
Speaker 2: But really to get that butt hurt, to sue over now I might get mad if you call me Jar Jar Binks, but I'm just kidding.
Speaker 3: I don't think anyone should as anyone should.
Speaker 2: Yes, you tried to be the death of the entire creature?
Speaker 3: Like, is this a case where this person has probably felt some kind of way, has felt bullied, has felt alienated, and now this is just kind of the thing that put them over the edge, like I would.
Speaker 3: Okay, I get that, but if we're taking it at face value of someone who just can't laugh at themselves, I say boo, laura Knob, boo.
Speaker 2: She's going to have a tough time getting into that.
Speaker 2: Boo, laura Knob, boo, she's going to have a tough time getting into it.
Speaker 2: You know she goes to a new job and someone's going to give her a Darth Vader cookie for her first day, or something like that.
Speaker 3: But honestly, like I mean, I'm one of those people.
Speaker 3: I know people Listen.
Speaker 3: This is very polarizing.
Speaker 3: I know some people are into team building activities like this.
Speaker 3: I know some people aren't.
Speaker 3: I think a Star Wars twist to it is kind of cute.
Speaker 3: Especially I'm going to assume it might have been around May the 4th.
Speaker 3: That's cute.
Speaker 3: I think it's cute.
Speaker 3: I don't really think there's any harm in that.
Speaker 1: But then again, if you're a manager you got to know your audience.
Speaker 3: So if you know there's someone on your team who's going to be a little more butthurt if you look at them the wrong way, like maybe this isn't the activity, that activity, like maybe you do different things, but I don't know, I do think it's harmless, but then again, I'm not Lorna and I'm not in her head.
Speaker 2: So I still say boo Lorna.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I do too.
Speaker 2: She said the comparison made her feel isolated and unpopular.
Speaker 3: Probably is unpopular for different reasons.
Speaker 2: Yeah exactly their tribunal agreed it wasn't just a harmless joke.
Speaker 2: It it cross-lined into workplace detriment, especially given works, diagnose anxiety and stress related challenges.
Speaker 2: Okay, I, anxiety is I'm not saying it's not, but it is so, so, so overused.
Speaker 2: We cannot be a functioning society if everybody and their brother is this highly anxious.
Speaker 2: Like I said, anxiety is real, I know it, you know it's real.
Speaker 2: But the amount of people who just get anxious over the stupidest shit, that's something else and I'm not a mental health professional.
Speaker 3: But I think I don't know.
Speaker 3: We are not a mental health podcast.
Speaker 3: Just that, just to let you know.
Speaker 3: These are just two HR professionals who know nothing about psychology.
Speaker 3: But like I get it, I get and I get when people are like, oh, someone finds something triggering right?
Speaker 2: We hear that word a lot, a lot.
Speaker 2: Oh, trigger is another one of my least favorite phrases.
Speaker 3: That's one of your pet peeves.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 3: Well, I think there's legitimately two like there's things out there like, oh, if I like hear something, or like I don't like it.
Speaker 3: But I also think it's a person's responsibility to understand why things are triggering to themselves and therefore they must then do the work instead of just putting a bubble around themselves and dictating that other people can't do things.
Speaker 3: Like I'm like this whole Star Wars thing right.
Speaker 3: Like, oh, like, why is this triggering to me?
Speaker 3: Like maybe I should do the work in and of myself to figure out why this is bothering me.
Speaker 3: I always, I always use the story of you know, the thing I hate to hear the most in my life is what do you want to do for dinner?
Speaker 3: I think for me.
Speaker 3: I hate that question.
Speaker 3: I hear it.
Speaker 3: I spiral into like an ADHD wormhole of like, oh my God, that's one more thing I have to plan.
Speaker 3: Oh my God, I have to do all this stuff too.
Speaker 3: Oh my blah, blah, blah.
Speaker 3: Like it, it does something to me.
Speaker 3: But at the same time, like I can't get angry at my husband every single time he asks a simple, damn question of what food we're going to consume in the evening.
Speaker 3: So, like you know, I think anxiety is real.
Speaker 3: I think mental health is real, but I also think especially in the case of Lorna over here you have to be able to function in society and therefore sometimes it's not a them problem, sometimes it's a you issue, and you need to do the work to help navigate your own triggers.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and that's what I'm going to say.
Speaker 3: Mic drop Again, I am not a mental health professional.
Speaker 2: Well, I listen to audio books like crazy.
Speaker 2: I don't know how many hours I've listened to already this year, but the book I started today actually the first pre-chapter after Audible presents.
Speaker 2: It's like a page-long trigger warning about the book and, okay, a few of the things needed to be trigger warnings.
Speaker 2: But if you pick up the book and you've read anything else by the author and you look at the back, you're going to be able to pretty much guess that these are going to be some of the themes of the book and I don't know, just in trigger warnings at the beginning of podcasts when they're not.
Speaker 2: Okay, bad things happen in life but you can't not discuss them because of something.
Speaker 2: So I I don't know it's yeah the trigger warning I, I don't know I, I appreciate a trigger warning.
Speaker 3: I think they're pretty harmless, like throw them out there.
Speaker 3: I will say I watched, I watched I don't know why I've been very curious about again this is like an adhd fixation, so but I like wanted.
Speaker 3: I just fell down a rabbit hole of Hurricane Katrina.
Speaker 3: Okay, I don't know, but I saw, I watched this documentary on Max, called when the Levees Broke, and I could have used a trigger when, at the very last three minutes of the first episode, they're literally just, they're just showing dead bodies, like closeups of dead bodies, dead bodies that have been out in the water for days, and at first, like it's very funny because I think there's a bit of us that's desensitized to that kind of stuff when you watch shit on TV and you're like, oh, the special effects are amazing, and then it takes it took me a good like couple seconds to to process like, oh, this isn't special effects, these are real dead bodies.
Speaker 3: And so I was like I would have let, I would have liked a trigger warning, because I saw things that I was not prepared to see yeah, yeah but at the same time, yeah, I don't know yeah like.
Speaker 3: So I, I, you know just a heads up of what I'm about to see, because that's been in my brain for a couple days and I got to now.
Speaker 3: I got to go watch.
Speaker 3: I got to watch Gilmore Girls from beginning to end, to clean my palate.
Speaker 2: Nothing's going to trigger you out of that.
Speaker 2: Yeah Well, speaking of triggers, right before we started recording tonight, my wife and I watched the series finale of handmaid's tale and it's a pretty good story.
Speaker 2: Elizabeth moss is probably the worst actress I've ever had to deal with in my life.
Speaker 2: And it's not just this, it's everything she does, they and she's the director, producer, all that of it.
Speaker 2: She could stay behind the, but she likes to focus in, like super big, on her own face and she's doing all these, just these god-awful facial contortions and it just makes me want to throw something at the TV and if I was like Elvis, I would have shot my TV because I just I'm glad.
Speaker 2: Okay, the story, the series finale if you haven't seen it, sorry spoiler, it sucks the way they ended.
Speaker 2: It was just so stupid on top of it, but I'm just glad to be rid of it.
Speaker 2: I'm never going to watch anything with Elizabeth Moss again because she's just that god-awful of an actress.
Speaker 2: And there's two other shows my wife and I or one was a movie and another show and she does the same thing.
Speaker 2: She just contorts her face, trying to be dramatic or whatever.
Speaker 2: It's not like a Jim Carrey facial contortion and she doesn't do it well and she has to get like super zoomed in.
Speaker 2: It just kills me and I'm glad that show's over, it's done.
Speaker 2: But that triggered me every single time because as they start zooming in our face, oh here comes some stupid contortion or you know whatever.
Speaker 2: But anyways I was.
Speaker 3: You need a trigger warning at the beginning, like warning this episode contains Elizabeth Moss's face.
Speaker 2: Yeah, but I will.
Speaker 2: There's a couple of actors.
Speaker 3: I've never noticed that no-transcript.
Speaker 3: Now I'm only going to see it.
Speaker 2: Watch Handmaid's Tale, and no other show zooms in that closely on anybody's face, and this show zooms in on other characters' faces.
Speaker 2: They don't do the same stupid shit she does.
Speaker 2: See, I don't know, she's trying to overact with facial expressions, I guess, but anyways, yeah, we just finished that.
Speaker 2: Now we're going to be looking for something new to binge watch and we've got a couple of ideas on there.
Speaker 2: But before we wrap this up, I went on all the podcast apps recently and was looking to see if we had any reviews.
Speaker 2: I could find that I hadn't mentioned.
Speaker 2: We don't.
Speaker 2: So please give us some reviews, people, especially on Apple.
Speaker 3: Give us reviews.
Speaker 3: Well, read your reviews.
Speaker 2: Now, I don't use Spotify, I use Pocket Casts and you can just like it and give it a star if you like it, and we have a couple of people done it on Pocket Casts.
Speaker 2: But you can't put a verbal rating and I don't know how Spotify works as I don't use that.
Speaker 2: But Spotify we've got like a four and a half star out of 23 reviews out there.
Speaker 2: So thank you all of y'all that help us out on Spotify.
Speaker 2: So just give it a quick click, give us a couple stars.
Speaker 2: But as I'm going down the list, I get to good pods and I haven't been on good pods in years and I don't know where to come up with their stats, but I'm definitely not going to question their validity.
Speaker 2: Good Pods ranks Jaded HR the number one in the top 100 independent human resources all-time podcasts oh.
Speaker 2: And we're number eight of all the human resource podcasts all time, and I looked at the list that you know.
Speaker 2: They don't have some shows out there.
Speaker 2: I think their ratings and their reviews and their listenerships are much higher than ours, but they don't and some of the ones are above us in those top hundred I've never even heard of.
Speaker 2: But, thank you, I know we have because I can see on our host, buzzsprout how many people listen.
Speaker 2: We've got a few dozen people listen to every episode on Good Pods.
Speaker 2: So thank you.
Speaker 2: Whatever you're doing to boost us with that, I appreciate it.
Speaker 2: So, yay, if that's really cool, I'm going to post this on our Instagram page, probably tomorrow night.
Speaker 2: I'm editing this episode, so yeah.
Speaker 2: So thank you.
Speaker 2: And you know, please, please, get out there, leave us reviews, tell your friends, spread the word.
Speaker 2: You can support us.
Speaker 2: You can support us on Patreon.
Speaker 2: You can buy us a beer All sorts of ways you can support us.
Speaker 2: All the links are in the show notes, as well as links directly to Cece's Instagram of BoozyHR.
Speaker 2: You can check her out there, but that's all I have today.
Speaker 2: But you can support us alike Hallie, our original GDHR rock star, bill and Michael, who support us on Patreon as well.
Speaker 2: So thank you very much for your support.
Speaker 2: I think those three are getting kind of lonely.
Speaker 2: It's been a while since we've had another supporter.
Speaker 2: So I think the minimum you can do is $2 a month and I think I even have a $50 a month level.
Speaker 2: If anybody wants it, it's out there, a $50 a month level to support us.
Speaker 2: But anyways, go check us out on Patreon.
Speaker 2: So anything else you have for today.
Speaker 3: No, no, I'm good.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2: Well, that's all I've got too.
Speaker 2: So our intro is Andrew Kolpa does the voice and the music is Devil, with a Double by the Underscore Orchestra.
Speaker 2: Can't remember that after saying it for five years and, as always, I'm Warren.
Speaker 3: I'm Phoebe.
Speaker 2: And we're here helping you survive.
Speaker 2: Hr one, what the fuck.
Speaker 2: Moment at a time.
Speaker 2: Thank you.