Andew Quilpa: Had you actually read the email, you would know
that the podcast you are about to listen to could contain
explicit language and offensive content.
These HR experts' views are not representative of their past,
present or future employers.
If you have ever heard my manager is unfair to me.
I need you to reset my HR portal password, or Can I write
up my employee for crying too much?
Welcome to our little safe zone .
Welcome to Jaded HR.
Warren: Welcome to Jaded HR, the podcast by two HR professionals
who want to help you get through the workday by saying
everything you're thinking, but say it out loud.
I'm Warren.
CeeCee: I'm Cece.
Warren: Yay, we're just talking.
It feels like it's been forever , but it's been our regular two
weeks.
I don't know why, it feels, like it's been so long since we
last talked, but just so much going on in work in the world
and everything else like that.
It's just like and here we are.
We're recording this on August 12th.
It's the middle of August.
The summer is pretty much done.
CeeCee: I don't like it.
Warren: I don't like it.
CeeCee: I was telling Warren off air that my company does fiscal
calendars and my manager reminded me yesterday.
She's like oh yeah, some mid-year reviews are in
September and I'm like September is a million years away and I
was like, oh no, it's next month , so I got to get on it.
Warren: Yeah, yeah, it's just so crazy how much time is flying
in my just not keeping up with what the date is.
We're having our financial advisors are coming to the
office actually this Thursday and I forgot it was this
Thursday and they were booking.
You know you could do, through signupgeniuscom, a slot to go
meet with them individually.
They'll talk to you individually, no cost.
We do that at least once a year .
But the financial advisor you call them, they'll talk your ear
off any, any day.
But just Monday our slots filled up and somebody asked for
more slots and it was like, oh yeah, I was thinking that we're
having it on the 14th, the day this podcast launches, and I'm
like, oh, that's so far away.
And then, as I'm sending the email, I'm like, oh, that's this
upcoming Thursday.
And I'm like, sorry for the short notice, but can you add us
a few more slots in these appointments?
We have more people that want to participate in that.
And they did.
They were great.
It's just wow.
CeeCee: Time is crazy.
That's crazy, I know.
I'm just like.
I just feel like this year has flown by so quickly.
We're like close to 2026 and I'm very unsettled by that.
Oh, why?
Warren: Why would you be unsettled?
CeeCee: It's just going so fast.
Oh okay, it's going so fast.
Warren: Bad happening in 2026.
I put something on my personal calendar besides a doctor's
appointment on in January of 26 already.
I'm like it's crazy, Crazy.
CeeCee: So I don't know about you, but this week I have
appointment.
I have an appointment every day this week.
It's like either doctor's appointment for me, I have a
checkup for the baby, and the cat has to go back for a recheck
, because my, our cat was in the .
My gosh, I didn't happen last week.
Our cat was sick and we had to take her to the the vet, and she
stayed overnight and that cost us like a thousand dollars and
she ended up having a uti and oh my god.
But anyway, like that's part of owning an animal, though, yes,
what are you gonna do?
But yeah, so like this week I'm just back to back to back, like
trying to juggle work meetings, but then also like trying to
sneak out of the house for a doctor's appointment.
Trying, it's just.
It's just a long weekend.
Warren: Thankfully we don't have anything this weekend, so I
like just want to sit in front of the cat, in front of the tv
and veg on the couch I'm still waiting for that weekend for
myself, but I I don't have that's not my this week is
appointments, but September sometime I have a dentist
appointment, a follow-up for my surgery appointment, and things
like that.
I'm just thinking how crazy everything is.
And I'm actually going to go see my dermatologist again.
Is why not?
I've met my deductible and out-of-pocket max, so hey, let's
go.
Might as well go.
Let's go to the dermatologist.
I'm trying to get that appointment.
She's so booked up though I'm basically going to be on the
wait list for cancellation.
But yeah, it's crazy out there.
CeeCee: Crazy Other than that my podcast for work launched, oh
yes, so that was exciting I'm doing for those who don't know
I'm doing, I'm an L&D, so I work on the L&OD team, which is
learning and org development, and we launched a podcast
because my company is very into the use of generative AI and
believes it is a skill that everyone should be well-versed
in, no matter what role that you're in.
So I'm doing a podcast on the best, like how to use it, and
you know, every podcast my different guests is someone from
the organization who's either a super user or, like you know,
the chief CH I'm sorry, the chief, the head of IT, or who
else like someone from council, but it's interesting
conversations and we've never used that medium of you know
learning and it's really well received.
So, if no one has done it yet, I think it's a really good
delivery method for learning, especially HR business partner.
And she said she listened to my work podcast and then she was
like it was very different from you know, and I started laughing
because I was just like, yeah, I could imagine me showing to
that podcast like I talk on here , like that would last for like
two seconds.
Warren: No F-bombs in the work.
One Come on, we've got to spice that up.
CeeCee: No F-bombs in the work.
One, come on, we've got to spice that up.
Warren: No F-bombs, oh man, so yeah, but that's really cool.
I really admire when companies do things like yours, are doing
that to further engage and meet the people where they are.
And if they're because as I walk around our office, I would
say more than half of the people have their earbuds in and many
of them are listening to podcasts as I ask, hey, what you
listening to?
You know, I'm just curious what you're listening to.
And there's like all sorts of podcasts that mainly, it seems,
podcasts they're listening to.
But they're listening to all sorts of the stuff and it's and
they're multitasking, I mean it's, it's more probably noise
in the background.
They're still getting their work done.
Just like I mentioned, I have Food Network on at home.
Is my noise TV, my wife's?
Andew Quilpa: is.
Warren: Investigation.
Discovery Channel is her white noise.
CeeCee: I'm Gilmore.
Warren: Girls, gilmore Girls, oh gosh.
Aren't they bringing that back, or is there going to be?
Like a special reunion or something along like that I
think I saw on social media.
I don't.
CeeCee: This is just me being on my soapbox.
Sometimes stories just need to end and we need to be okay with
that.
So I know they did the reboot in like 2016.
It was great.
I enjoyed it.
We do not need another reboot.
If anyone from the Amy Sherman Palladino camp is listening to
this, I would be interested in an Emily Gilmore prequel series
where we like focus on Emily when she meets Richard and all
that that I might be interested in, but we're done with the
story.
Let it lie.
We don't have to reboot everything and that is off my
soapbox.
Warren: Well, rebooting.
You know how many times now have they rebooted Dexter and
I'm actually, I will say this current Dexter resurrection I'm
enjoying.
For the most part it's better than the beginnings one, the
origin one, when he was a kid.
And so I'm enjoying it, but it's yeah, it's something else.
Let's see.
One thing I want to try and do going forward is get our thank
yous early on, because so our Patreon supporters may not make
it.
You know, like 80% of our listeners make it through like
85% of the podcasts, and I think when they start hearing us wind
it down.
people are okay, Next click and things like that.
So I want to put the shout outs to Hallie, the original Jaded
HR rock star Michael and Bill for supporting us on Patreon.
You can, too, just follow the show notes.
It's very much appreciated.
And also our thank you to the Underschool Orchestra for use of
the theme song Devil the Devil and Andrew Kolpa who does the
intro.
So yeah, get those out of the way so people can get their
recognition early on, before everybody starts hanging up on
us.
CeeCee: I'm going to start saying one crazy thing at the
end of every episode, and you'll just have to listen to the end
to hear it.
And it could be anything, who knows?
Warren: Now one podcast I listen to.
It's one of my favorite podcasts.
They end their official episode and then there's this like tone
and then they go on the host they're talking about.
It can be anything.
We've talked about the Italian restaurant, they someone went to
last week and they just it's, it's pretty good, sometimes it's
related, sometimes it's just anything they talked about and
it's like another five, ten minutes.
I'd like that as well, but gosh , I was gonna say something else
based on what you said.
I forget squirrel, but anyways squirrel.
Well, squirrel, but anyways Squirrel.
That one.
Well, I found two stories to discuss Disgust, disgust, oh,
yes, anyways To discuss.
The first one is from a site called she Knows and the author
is Alice Kelly and this is from July 31st.
And we've said any number of times you don't work in HR until
you've dealt with poop.
CeeCee: I know HR Besties says something about that Poop and
porn.
Warren: I think it was Jamie on HR.
CeeCee: Besties has a poop story .
Warren: If you're in HR and you don't have a poop story, you
haven't earned your badges yet.
That's true.
CeeCee: By the way, really quick shout out to Jamie on the HR
Besties, because if anyone hasn't heard or listened, first
of all, they're fantastic, you should listen to them.
Second of all, she has the most insane layoff story that I have
ever heard.
She's been laid off, she's looking for a new role, but it
is a story of bad HR doing bad HR and there are bad actors out
there and it makes me sad.
But you know, if you, if you know of any really good HR roles
, send them to HR Bestie Jamie.
Warren: Yeah, you know I'm a couple of weeks behind on my
podcast right now, but I did see on social media a clip of them
talking about what had happened and it's mainly Leah and Jamie
doing the talking in that clip.
I was like really, but it's bad HR like that that gives the
true HR professionals who are out there busting their butt and
working hard.
They're the ones who give it a bad name and especially spoiler
alert or whatever you want to say if you're lying and
falsifying, creating falsified documents or whatever you want
to say to that.
I was watching that clip.
It must have been on Instagram or something.
My jaw was just dropped like really, you know really yeah.
CeeCee: So if you haven't checked them out, go check them
out.
She'll give you the whole story yeah, but here's the deal.
If you check out their podcast and you like it, you still have
to come back and still listen to our podcast.
Warren: Yes, yes, absolutely, absolutely.
And that's one thing I like about the podcast universe,
because there's so many podcasts out there and I don't think you
necessarily compete with other podcasts in which I went through
my list and I unsubscribed from some podcasts.
Now some of them are like the Hustle Work Environment podcast,
which hasn't released an episode since 2022.
And I guess Corporate Pizza Party hasn't released an episode
in like six months and I took those off my list.
I'll keep my eyes open to see if they do put anything else out
.
But a couple of others I've been adding them.
I added your Stupid Op stupid opinion based on your
recommendation right yeah, it's.
It's quite funny.
Now I know they've done some stories of locations in
cincinnati.
I'm waiting for them to do for us a location of somewhere I
might be familiar with.
They haven't done that quite yet, so I live okay.
CeeCee: So for those of you who don't know, your stupid opinion
is a podcast which is just that they read stupid opinions that
people leave on reviews and I think it speaks to my love of
and this is going to come off very jaded, but I used to run
the what is it, the annual engagement surveys, and some of
my favorite things was to go through the comment because A
there's a lot of good stuff in there and there's also a lot of
very unhinged things in there and people will say the most
ridiculous stuff in there and it's confidential and we can't
see who's leaving what comments, but it's a hoot just seeing
what some people just leave uncensored.
So if you're someone who loves a good engagement survey and
loves reading comments on surveys, you should also go
listen to that podcast.
But I do live six minutes away from episode one where they talk
about the worst Wendy's.
It's right down the street.
Oh, wow, yeah, anyway, it's right down the street.
Warren: Oh, wow, yeah I.
CeeCee: Anyway.
Warren: I like it, and then their adult toy or whatever
product that they do every week.
CeeCee: The personal item of the week.
Warren: Personal item of the week.
Oh my gosh.
There's been some where I'm like yeah, exactly none of this
sounds enjoyable for anybody is that's an actual product and and
a lot of them they're getting on amazon.
They're not like going to some I know crazy snm online shop or
something like that.
They're, it's just amazon and I'm like, oh lordy.
But yeah, sometimes I get bored is the only downside about that
podcast.
They go awfully long, like we do.
They're starting to read so many comments and so I sort of
yeah, okay, I got the gist of this place.
Let's get to the personal item of the week, just to make myself
cringe a little.
CeeCee: So anyhow, Anyway, I'm sorry I derailed you.
Warren: Oh no, no it was a great derailment, but anyways,
Gwyneth Paltrow, she owns that company Goop.
Ah yes, the poop, and that's notorious for some of their very
special fragrances.
CeeCee: Yes, yes, yes.
Warren: Of their candles and such, but we won't get into that
here.
That can be saved for their personal item of the week.
This article from she Knows apparently Goop has some potty
problems at Goop and so apparently Gwyneth Paltrow sent
an email to the entire staff.
It says, quote found pee on a toilet seat at the office.
Someone tinkled.
Make sure to clean up after yourself.
I'd appreciate it.
And I'm just like yeah, that, oh, that was not an email, that
was on the company's Slack channel, anyways.
CeeCee: Was it from Gwyneth or was it from corporate
communications that I need to know?
We have our internal Slack, we have Slack and I'm just laughing
because, like only certain people can do the all team
channel and that's like corporate communications and
stuff.
But I'm like I'm wondering did it come from Gwyneth?
Yes, Did it have like her name and her icon?
And it was like please wipe up after your tinkles.
Warren: If you tinkle and you sprinkle, be a sweetie, clean
the CD Gosh anyways.
But yeah, this is according to someone named Adele.
She wrote a biography on working, I guess at Goop and
Gwyneth Paltrow, and goes on, but anyways, she goes on to say
that allegedly many who work excuse me, she goes about the
behind the scenes of the company and things like allegedly many
who quote work up the nerve to go into her office allegedly
experience impatience of an attitude.
Odell writes If an employee replied to one of her emails
with thanks or on it, she'd tell them not to send those emails
because they're a waste of time.
So now I've heard I don't know if it was Steve Jobs or somebody
else was that hate?
And maybe it's no, I think it's .
Bezos actually hates those emails.
Yeah, I'm telling you what to do.
Just get it done, don't you know?
Give me okay.
CeeCee: No, thank you.
Yeah, no thank yous and things like that, but which is
interesting because I will say one of like, early in my career,
one of the first initiatives that like the team put out was
this whole.
What was it?
It was like these certain things.
So it was like end on the fives .
So you didn't like you're being handed at like five till
whatever.
So you gave people a chance to like go to the bathroom or
something.
And the other one was don't reply all and you don't need to
say thanks like we got it like.
So you don't have to like even reply all and say thanks or this
was great, or blah, blah, blah.
It was just like mail, like just we're just gonna do it
right, but honestly, like I miss a nice thank you you can send
me.
Also, you can just confirm that you got it Like.
Oh, got it On it.
Warren: Yeah, see, I like that.
I like I don't.
If my I have a whopping two employees under me and if I
shoot them something to do and they don't reply, got it on it.
I trust they're going to do it.
So up to date, I don't have a reason not to.
If situations changed and they gave me reason to say, hey, did
you get that last email or something, then that'd be a
thing.
But I would say 99 plus percent of the time I just hey, can you
knock this out for me real quick?
And next thing, I know it's done before I get a thank you or
anything like that.
But sometimes they do.
Yeah, I'll get that taken care of.
Let's see here.
Also in the book, odell writes, this hostile dynamic was subtle
but damaging within the company and almost no one, the board
included, was willing to tell her no.
And that's a problem when you have people who are just too
afraid to tell people no.
I mean, is Gwyneth Paltrow that ?
I don't know.
CeeCee: I don't know anything about her.
I don't, whatever.
This is just my personal perception.
She seems insufferable, honestly, like she just has that
.
Like her and Katy Perry, they just kind of seem like women who
drank too much of their own Kool-Aid and think a lot of
themselves, like and that I mean just people in general women
who drank too much of their own Kool-Aid and think a lot of
themselves like, and that I mean just people in general like
even.
You know, I don't know why I said two women, but they just
seem like two individuals who, like, just think very highly of
themselves and I don't have patience for that in anybody,
Like if you take yourself too seriously and you know your own
biggest fan in a very egotistical way and assume that
everyone else believes the same thing.
I just don't have patience for that and that's what I feel
about.
I'm so sorry.
Warren: No see, I don't know enough about Quinteth Paltrow.
I don't either, but she doesn't seem like why would you?
I'm trying to think of somebody who might intimidate me to the
point of like, oh no, no, but if I'm working for you and you're
hiring me to do a job, sometimes that job is to give you advice
hey, let's load, let's hit the brakes here, let's rethink this,
or are we sure we're doing it?
This is what we want to be doing, and things like that.
Or even just flat out, no.
I had a long discussion about exempt versus non-exempt with a
manager not that long ago, and of course, the manager wants
them to be exempt.
And I'm like no, and I was trying to tell them.
I was giving them every opportunity to convince me and
they never convinced me.
I said no, this person's hourly , but they're going to be
working a lot of overtime.
Okay, well, they'll make a lot of overtime then.
Good for them.
Yeah, it's going to be working a lot of overtime.
Okay, well, they'll make a lot of overtime then.
Go for that, yeah, it's going to be a lot of travel involved.
That's why they're going to have so much overtime.
And I'm like you know you haven't convinced me and I'm not
hard to convince and I like finding I'm comfortable working
in some gray areas as long as I feel that my, my, I feel pretty
strong.
Okay, we're okay.
You know it may not be absolutely perfect, but we're,
we're okay and I think, being in a lot of leadership roles, you
have to learn to accept some gray areas.
But sometimes no is no, no means no.
Sometimes I listen to weird podcasts I've never heard of
before when he's on them and things like that and stuff like
that.
So just because he thinks differently and he does things
differently and I like that, I like hearing his thoughts on
things.
I don't have to agree with him, I just like hearing his
thoughts.
Sometimes I was like dude, you're off base, but still, you
know.
CeeCee: He was my favorite on Shark Tank.
Does that count?
And he just still.
You know he was my favorite on Shark Tank, Does that count?
Warren: And he just retired from Shark Tank.
He's not going to be doing it any longer.
So yeah, and he's a fraternity brother of mine, but not the
same college not the same mom.
CeeCee: Yeah, you're saying.
Warren: Not the same college, not the same year, I'm old but
I'm not.
Anyways, not going there, but anyways.
So that was one story I had.
The next story I had came to me from LinkedIn and the author's
name is actually Warren Wang, like the WW name there, and he
has 24 reasons why HR quits.
So I want to go through this and hit these 24 things real
quick.
Get your thoughts and see if any spark any discussion there.
Treat HR like a department, not a partner, and I don't under
you know they treat it like a.
I guess you know HR should be your partner in things.
CeeCee: I guess is what they're saying.
Warren: That's what they're saying yeah, I don't know,
that's not a big deal.
CeeCee: Yeah, like I get that.
I'm not your order taker, I'm here to partner with you.
Warren: Yeah, yeah Boy, reject their decisions in front of
employees.
Now that I don't know how frequently that happens.
I don't think I've ever had that happen to me personally.
No, I hope most people don't have that situation.
Once again, I will have discussions with my bosses and
give my opinion and sometimes I get told no, and I'm like you
know.
I made my opinion, thought known and you're you know you
can take the action based on that or not based on that.
So force HR to be the bad cop without support.
Andew Quilpa: Oh, yeah, yeah.
Warren: How many times does HR need to send an email that's
directed by, or some form of communication or new policies
forced by the C-suite that HR is like let's not do that, let's
think of something else, let's try something else.
CeeCee: Or even just like I don't know, like HR being the
ones to always like we're, like always the scapegoats.
It's always like oh, you know, we're firing people because of
HR and it's like, well, no, like we don't make those decisions.
So it's actually, you know, we are just kind of told what to do
there.
I mean, don't get me wrong, but there is probably some.
If there's like a layoff or something, there's a lot of
consultation.
But I mean, it's not like we're walking around the halls being
like you.
I don't like how you look, Get out of here.
Warren: Exactly.
Andew Quilpa: You smiled funny.
Warren: Get out of here, yeah, expect HR to fix what leadership
won't address.
Now I have not experienced that either.
I hear it so often that you know HR has got to fix the
culture problem.
Culture seems to be the number one thing.
You see that it's not something any one individual or any one
department is going to fix.
It's a team effort.
It is Give them the authority, but give them no authority, but
expect them to lead.
And so far all these have a similar theme.
You know, if you want to lead, you have to give some authority
to you know, whip people back in line or get them otherwise
motivated to that.
Never back them up and wonder why they leave.
We were discussing a few episodes ago that HR in
corporate world has the highest turnover rate of any corporate
function and I found that hard to believe.
But you know, you did the research and found it.
You know good old chat GPT says that is accurate.
So you know that is accurate.
CeeCee: So you know, according to my podcast episode that aired
today, the best prompt is to ask it to source itself, so you
can do your due diligence and check sources because it is
wrong.
So I hope you didn't believe those facts at face value,
Warren.
Warren: They came from you, though.
So I believe.
Of course I believe, but I use gemini, and almost always it has
links that you can follow to figure out what and look at what
they're citing as their source.
But anyways, once again, similar theme put them in a
spotlight and then leave them to fail.
Too many projects, oh, hr is going to take on whatever the
situation is and then have fun with that.
We're not going to support you other than here it is Reward
them with more work but no recognition.
But I think that's anywhere you work.
I don't think that's unique to HR.
CeeCee: Yeah, there was just a video I saw today where it was
like how to burn out your high performers in the way where
they're like saying Absolutely.
You know your high performers are going to get things done
faster and quicker, but you're just going to pile on more work
and then yeah, this one.
Warren: I have some thoughts on Expect magic when no real
resources are provided.
Andew Quilpa: Hmm.
Warren: So sometimes you get some nebulous marching orders of
do this or find this or whatever it is, and that's all
you're given and it's up to you to figure it out.
You're not going to get a roadmap for every problem that
comes your way and sometimes you know resources may be thin and
you just have to figure things out on yourself, do things
yourself, that you might not be in your comfort zone or anything
, but I kind of like things like that.
Just ooh, point me in a new direction and let me see.
Andew Quilpa: I don't know.
Warren: That's me.
This is another one.
Treat them like office admins, not strategic thinkers.
And I think this one goes back to once again hiring those
people.
Oh, you were so good in our customer service department,
you'll be a great HR manager.
You're so good in doing whatever other function
administrative function You'll be a great HR person.
And I think that's why they get treated like admins and such.
Yeah, overload them with admin tasks and not strategic focus.
The exact same thing.
So his 24 reasons list is not really 24 reasons.
Once again covered this one to a degree.
Give them zero budget but expect world-class talent yeah,
but HR is.
I've never worked anywhere that HR has been over budgeted.
So but I think, once again you go, if you go to any department
marketing, accounting, any of them they're going to say, yeah,
we, we don't have enough budget , we want more.
Everybody wants more.
But I think HR probably gets the shoulder into the stick on
that a lot.
Make them fight for basic compliance like it's a favor.
You know, like I mentioned earlier that conversation I had
with exempt versus non-exempt.
CeeCee: There's like it's black and white check, like it's kind
of black and white guidelines, yeah, that kind of stuff.
There's six factors.
Warren: You have black and white check Like it's kind of black
and white guidelines, yeah, that kind of stuff.
CeeCee: There's six factors you have to look at.
No.
Warren: Yeah, let's see I'm going to try and skip some of
these.
There's some that are duplicates here.
Expect them to heal toxic environments with no tools.
We spoke about it earlier A toxic environment.
If it's an environment problem, it's an everybody problem.
If it's a toxic person, yeah, HR can deal with that.
CeeCee: I don't know how you think about it, but yeah, it is
an everybody problem, but I feel like it more so lies on
leadership.
Warren: Top management.
CeeCee: Because people are learning it from somewhere and
it's being the behaviors are being accepted by someone.
So yeah, like I think the burden of that probably lands on
, like, the top level.
It does not land on HR.
Warren: I absolutely agree.
Well said, expect them to same thing.
Expect them to fix burnout while rewarding overwork.
I mean it's a no-brainer with that.
Dump every office problem on them and walk away
administrative type thing.
Ignore every workplace issue until it's a full-blown crisis.
You know early intervention like drug.
You know the drug commercials from the 80s and 90s.
Early intervention can prevent this If you address early.
I use the example of one of my manager trainings telling about
my point is to address problems earlier and I say you know, if
an employee is doing A and you want them to do B, address it as
soon as you notice the problem, because the longer you wait,
the further A and B get from each other and there's a point
where you can't fix it.
You know there's so much time and money or resources or
they've just been going the wrong direction for so long.
And the employee?
I bet they may, worst case scenario, they get their
feelings hurt for a little while .
But I think ultimately they'll appreciate being put on the
right track and despite all you see about quite quitting and all
this other stuff, I do not believe people come to work with
the intention of doing a bad job and this is like the least
jaded you're going to ever hear me.
I think everybody comes to work trying to do the best they're
capable of doing and sometimes to raise that capability they
need a good management team or a good leader, mentor or
something like that who can stretch their capabilities and
grow them.
So that's my little soapbox.
CeeCee: I will say that some people are motivated a little
differently than others.
There's different levels of motivation to do their best.
But I agree with you when you say no one wakes up in the
morning and says I can't wait to suck at my job.
Like I can't wait to cause issues for everybody, like I
think so.
Warren: Now causing issues?
The drama kings and queens out there.
I think some of them.
I think they're looking.
You know what are they?
They twiddle their thumbs all night.
Oh, yes, I'm going to create some drama at work.
Anyways, change policies consistently, constantly and
expect them to keep up.
Cut their team, but increase their workload.
Same as you know.
Punish them for speaking up about uncomfortable truths.
Blame them for bad hires, but never involve them in the hiring
.
Hires, but never involve them in the hiring.
I had a situation we just were sending an offer yesterday to an
employee.
We've been working with them for months and from the word go,
at the very beginning, zatar isn't getting involved.
But we extend the offer and I'm talking to him about, okay, we
accepted the offer.
And then, okay, here's what's going to happen.
You're been in, you know can't catch him, you know to follow up
with him and anyways, long story short, he continued that
trend.
But as soon as he started being difficult, I was like I was
telling the hiring manager.
I said I got bad feelings about this guy.
And then, yeah, we, we rescinded the offer, call them
hr, but never give them a real seat at the table, the seat at
the table, the seat at the table thing.
The seat at the table Cliché you want to know something.
CeeCee: That was like literally the first thing I learned in
grad school.
Warren: How to get a seat at the table.
CeeCee: HR has to have a seat at the table.
Warren: You know nobody, you know a couple semesters into
grad school.
Nobody's brought that up to me.
Once again.
The last two are, you know, similar to what's been covered
before Demand, culture change without leadership actually
changing and push toxic managers forward with the expectation
and expect retention to improve.
So yeah, some of those are good .
I mean that could have been a top 10 list of reasons why HR
quits?
CeeCee: Honestly, there were some things that were like a
little repetitive.
Warren: Yeah, yeah.
CeeCee: I just said the same thing in a different way, but
they're all great Like.
I agree with all of those.
Warren: It's.
You know I enjoy cooking.
I told you my my noise is food network and I'll download
recipes.
And it kills me If you go to like all recipes or something
like that, a recipe for something that you only want.
The recipe it's 10 ingredients or less, but you have to scroll
300 pages deep because they have to put.
CeeCee: This casserole was what my grandmother served on every
special occasion.
Warren: I can't tell you the warm and inviting scents that
whiffed it through, that, like, just tell me how to make the
damn casserole, that's all I want Exactly, but I figured it
out because the more verbiage and the longer the pages, the
more ads they can put up there and pay for that stupid recipe.
That didn't work out well.
CeeCee: By the way, we like have a storm brewing like the
thunder is right over our house.
Warren: That scared me.
I apologize if you can hear that.
Oh, I didn't hear it didn't hear a thing, wow, but no, those
were the two things I had to cover I found interesting in the
hr world this week or the last two weeks this week or the last
two weeks.
CeeCee: So I was.
You know we're talking about other podcasts before and I,
being the complete fan of the office, I started listening to
rain wilson's podcast called soul boom what is the gist of
that?
Warren: because I know he's big in the sci-fi universe and he's.
He's got a lot more going on than just the office.
CeeCee: Yeah, so Soul Boom, I think it.
He used to like run an online creative called Soul Pancake and
it was all very like positive stuff and he was part.
Now Soul Boom is something different and basically he talks
about how he had issues with severe depression and severe
anxiety when he was working in the office.
Like theoretically, he had everything in life that anyone
could ever ask for, but he still found himself very unhappy.
So it's basically his way of finding purpose, I guess like
finding purpose in life, and he like talks to a lot of
individual guests.
Warren: I heard that one.
CeeCee: Like right here, but it's a lot of like wellness and
mental health, wellness and stuff like that, like wellness
and mental health, wellness and stuff like that and
self-discovery.
So he had ed helms on and then helms talked about a lot of
stuff that he dealt with, like dealing with adhd and a late
life diagnosis with that.
But anyway, they were talking about the office and they were
reminiscing a little bit and he asked you know they talked about
and talked about Andy Bernard's .
One of Andy Bernard's famous last lines was I wish there was
a way that you could know that you were in the good old days
before you left them and they had like a little conversation
about that, like what to them was a good old day.
And I was like, oh, like thinking about all the companies
I used to work at.
I just thought it would be interesting to just talk about,
as far as company goes, like what was your good old day, like
what was the best time and your favorite company and your
favorite people to work with.
Warren: So I was telling you all fair.
I had a very similar conversation with somebody very
recently so I'm like prepared for this with somebody very
recently.
So I'm like prepared for this.
So what I did in this conversation is I started back
in my first true professional HR position.
I did third-party recruiting that company.
It was fast-paced, it was fun.
I mean, we had a kegerator at work, we drank Bloody Marys at
work, we partied hard, we worked hard.
But it was a great environment.
I didn't necessarily fit in as well there.
I was a little awkward and I was only there a few years, but
it was a good environment.
I liked the company, I liked the people.
I just never felt like I truly fit in.
So that was a good experience.
Then after that I worked at a staffing agency.
Once again, I liked the people I worked with but I didn't like
the staffing agency side of it.
That just wasn't me.
I was only recruiting, I wasn't doing sales or anything, but it
just wasn't for me that aspect.
I joined the CPA firm and I was a recruiter then and the first
couple of years I was in love with it.
I was doing recruiting.
I loved it.
Well, I wouldn't say I liked some of the people I liked one
of the people in my HR team.
I did not like my HR team terribly much and I actually
sought to move myself out.
We moved from like the fifth floor to the ninth floor and
there was only so many offices available and they said someone
in the HR team is going to have to move over by IT.
And my hand shot up like a rocket and I'm like, yes, put me
with IT.
So that was good and it ended.
Really I hated the way that job ended.
They they brought in a director level above me without ever
letting me know they wanted a director level or someone to act
like that who was a PETA and drove me out quickly.
I and it's fine as I I think he was going to fire me before I,
after that, went to the law firm .
I really the law firm was the first place I worked for that I
thought I could see myself actually retiring from.
I liked it.
I liked a lot of the attorneys.
I liked especially the labor and employment attorneys.
I liked them a lot.
I knew of them and I've worked with them in the past, both
because they were the CPA firm's attorneys and I've worked with
them, unfortunately more than my share of occasions with that,
but I like that.
It was just not the best HR environment.
I don't think it was only two of us plus a payroll person and
we were the personnel department and we did everything on excel
spreadsheets and that just personnel yeah, obviously,
assistant personnel director.
I worked at the hospital.
I've told that story.
They lost their license within weeks of me starting and I got
laid off six months later.
But that was just awful.
The university I've worked there.
I really I'll say this on the air I went in with a thought of
this is going to be temporary for me.
I had a very bad preconceived idea for profit education and
once I got in and saw you know, there's good players in the game
, bad players in the game, and this university was a good
player in the game.
I liked a lot about it.
I loved my HR team, probably the best HR team that I will
ever work with.
Patrick was on that team.
I've had other members in season one were guests with me.
The team was great, the university was good and things
like that.
But the water park it was what it was.
That wasn't the right job for me.
But now where I'm at now, I think I'm actually long story.
I think I'm actually in that point where I'm in the good old
days and I can recognize it.
I love the work I'm doing and you know, I know there's a
couple of people from my office who listen to this and I'm not
saying this in a brown nosing way.
I love the work I'm doing, I love the company I'm working for
.
I love my boss.
She gives me virtually unlimited freedom and allows me
to do pretty much anything I please, as long you know, with
it I don't ask anything stupid, I don't think.
But it's, and we mesh very well, we, we think very similarly on
things, and so I think I'm in the good old days now and I, I
once again, I, I see this place as hopefully my final, my final
piece of employment before I finally do retire.
So I hope I'm correct in saying I'm living in the good old days
.
I have two employees.
I really enjoy them both.
They're, you know, great.
I'm very pleased with them.
I don't have to hard manage them, it's just everything's
going sunshine and roses, and I've been there for six and a
half years now, so it's not like I've got the new car smell
still there.
CeeCee: I love it.
I was thinking about this too, I would say, when I used to work
for I'll just say the name, it doesn't matter anymore when I
used to work for Luxottica, which was like a big eyewear
company.
That was some of the most fun I've had and I will say I think
it was because I was earlier in career.
I worked on the recruiting team and recruiting is a hoot and
then I got to like jump off the recruiting team and go into,
like the learning and OD space and we were doing things there
that were very ahead of its time .
So like we were doing things back in I would say, 2012 ish.
Like we had a.
We had a diversity and inclusion person at that point, which
before, like then, like not a lot of companies had that and
then we also just like did a lot of like leadership competencies
and stuff like that, and it was like I'm still using things I
did there presently because we were so ahead of the curve there
that it's kind of like sometimes, you know, I still
pull on those past experiences.
But I mean, honestly I was, I was in one of my co-workers
weddings a A co-worker was in my wedding Like it was just like a
fun time.
But I'm going to say what you said.
You stole my answer, warren, because I was going to say that
I think also I'm currently in the good old days, like you know
.
I'm just kind of thinking this is the first time in a very long
time where I feel like I'm working on things that I find to
be super fun and what I wanted to do, and I'm doing things that
are impactful and I am getting not credit, but people see the
work I'm doing and acknowledge it and the recognition.
And I don't think I've had that for a very long time and I'm
going to like I don't want to sound like this bitter
ex-employee, but I've been in situations where I'm going to be
really honest, like I don't think that direct manager was my
sponsor in rooms I wasn't in and it was like things would get
done, but I was never given credit.
They took the credit for being the leader, of getting it done
and they didn't really want to take the spotlight away from
themselves.
Or I got into a big I mean, I got into a big argument not
argument like that was dramatic, but I kind of like was very
carefully trying to take something out of an old
manager's hand and he basically just shut it down.
He goes I know what you're doing and I'm never going to
give this up.
And I'm like, ok, like Sit people in a room for two hours
and listen to them.
Like have them just watch a video of you talk for two hours
because you're the leadership expert.
Like, oh, like why am I here?
I don't know.
Anyway, it's just like stuff like that where I don't know.
I'm just in a really good place right now and I like I trust my
boss.
She's amazing.
My manager is amazing.
I work with very smart people.
I would say like I also need to be the person like I need.
I'm also one of those people that if I see someone doing
something that's like less than mediocre, it will drive me
insane and I can say like this is the first time in a while
where I am working with equally brilliant people.
Nice.
And yeah, it just feels good, I'm in a good place.
Warren: No, that is absolutely important.
You know, one of the places I've worked, even though I was
earlier in my career, I felt that I was the star on the team
and you know I shouldn't have been a star.
I was too early.
I knew at that time I'm too.
Why am I feeling this way?
It's just other people were doing the bare minimum and you
know, mistakes were accepted and even laughed at.
Okay, well, I don't like that.
And part of my history and experience.
I really, once again, I'm not trying to be sappy or anything.
I'm trying to be the manager to my two employees that I always
wanted for myself and I feel I can do some.
You know we have a recruiter I recruited for over 10 years.
I've got that and I know recruiting's changed and evolved
and things like that.
I like working with her and getting her thoughts and ideas
and she does a seminar and as soon as she does a seminar, it's
over.
I'm like, oh, tell me about it, I want to hear and things like
that.
And another thing, not to toot my own horn or anything on
Mondays we have a corporate meeting of all the corporate
department heads, so you have IT and contracts and all the
accounting et cetera all there, and my recruiter one of the VPs
sent me a very nice email about how my recruiter was doing an
excellent job helping him fill these urgent positions and
things like that.
This VP sent a beautiful email about our recruiter and I wanted
to share that with everybody here to say you know, let
everybody know that she's getting recognized so they can
recognize her, and I think that also develops the trust.
When they need a job field, they know that they can.
You know that builds the trust.
Okay, I can have confidence in her.
She's knocking it out of the park for this division, this VP,
so they should have the same expectations when they have an
opening and things like that.
I think that's important.
I don't know I've been unrecognized, I've been sort of
I don't know what the right word is I've never been in bad.
I've worked with bad people.
I've never been in a bad environment or bad.
I don't know what the right word is, but yeah, it's.
Andew Quilpa: Yeah.
CeeCee: I will say if I've told the story before, you can stop
me and edit this out.
So I worked with an individual who was very much highly praised
for doing very like basic things and not and I don't mean
to be rude, I'm I'm meaning this in a way of like there was
nothing at the company, so a basic of something was better
than what there was, which sometimes that's awesome.
But this person kept getting praised and praised and praised
and praised and they like got a trip to the President's Club,
they got to go to Hawaii on the company dime for like, literally
like just do your job just do their job, and not only that,
but doing work that I personally did earlier in my career like
that caliber of work.
so there is a piece of me that's like listen, kudos to what has
been created, but is it really like a trip to hawaii worth
right?
yeah but anyway, not my, not my rodeo, like you know.
Whatever, we're just gonna let them do their thing.
And I would get a little frustrated.
I get.
I get frustrated when people always say I'm so busy, I'm so
busy, I'm so busy oh, my hair is on fire like I'm just so busy
doing all of the things, all of the things busy all the time.
And it just like just shut up and do your work like I don't
need to hear it.
But anyway, this was this person's MO, just constantly
being busy.
And I do remember like I worked on a project with them close to
me leaving the organization, and one of the things was like, oh,
we need to do this every year, because every year it needs to
be done.
But whatever, and I'm like, well, if we took the moment to
do it right and make it good and right I don't want to say too
much because of people, but like , let's say, we're creating a
training.
I was like, oh, like we do this training every year, people
always complain about it.
No one ever will.
I'm like, let's do it, let's do it right and put some time and
effort into it, and then we won't have to do it over and
over and over.
So I got put on a project with this person and this person
literally was like we worked through it and they said they
started going to the story about a Rice Krispie Treats
commercial and I remember, like there's this Rice Krispie Treats
commercial and I know exactly what they were talking about.
They were talking about this commercial from the 90s or early
2000s and the mom, like is just overwhelmed with life and she
was making her family a dessert.
And she was just like is just overwhelmed with life and she
was making her family a dessert.
And she was just like, oh my God, like leave me alone, I'm
going to close the door, I'm cooking dessert.
And she opens up a box of the pre-made Rice Krispie Treats in
the wrappers and like unwraps them and places them on a plate
and uses that time for like self-care, like I'm going to
read a book and a magazine.
But then, like before she brought the plate out to her
family, she's like threw flour on her face and like messed her
hair up.
Like oh mommy, mommy just made like slaved over.
And she said that's what this is.
And I said, excuse me, she goes .
No matter what we do, we need to make it look like we did a lot,
what we do.
We need to make it look like we did a lot.
And I was like I'm done.
I'm done If this is the person who gets trips to Hawaii, who
gets promoted, who gets stupid accolades for doing very
remedial work.
I'm out Like I cannot do this.
And it's like in that moment she they told me what their game
was and I was and I saw that person in a very different light
.
I was like okay, so we're being a little manipulative and lazy.
And I also saw like the organization as just being like
this is the behavior we want to celebrate.
And I was like I actually do take pride in my work.
I put a lot of effort, I think strategically, I do all of the
things and I wasn't promoted in three years and I left.
Warren: Yeah.
CeeCee: And so, anyway, I have an inside joke with a former
co-worker of mine, who we know, this individual, and the joke is
we make soufflés, we don't make Rice Krispie Treat and like
just to you know, we we're, we make souffles.
Warren: I've I've worked with people like that as well, and
it's it's annoying.
CeeCee: The balls to tell someone like hey, like the balls
to say it, I was just a little pissed like the balls to say it.
Warren: I was just a little pissed, well.
Well, I'm glad we're ending the show on a jaded note because
this has been so unjaded overall .
But, like I said, we're both in the the good times now, so it's
hard to be terribly jaded jaded with that.
So, yeah, anyways, let's here.
We did our thank yous already, so just want to wrap things up.
Please listen, send reviews.
I discovered recently that we have reviews on Spotify and
unfortunately they only give us ours.
But we got like a 4.5 or something rating on Spotify, so
keep that up.
CeeCee: Oh no, no, it's a 4.6.
Don't short sell us.
Warren: Okay, not going to decline on us and things like
that.
So keep those up, leave them on review on Apple and we will
read them on the air, but, as always, morn.
CeeCee: Butterscotch Penelope Tulip Pants.
That was your weird thing.
If you listened all the way to the end, that's what you heard.
Andew Quilpa: I don't know who lost.
Weird thing If you listened all the way to the end, that's what
you heard.
I mean, I didn't lose a lot.
Warren: And we're both here helping you survive each of our
one what-the-fuck moments at a time.
Bye.