spk_1:   0:00
Well, hello, everyone. We are back. And this is episode number three of the professional volunteer podcast. My name is Brian Soller, and I'm your host. Today's gonna be a very special episode, but before we jump into that, I just want to once again thank everybody for tuning in. Looking at the stats, as I said in the last episode is, is just really cool to, ah, to watch and see where everybody's listening in from and our reach is expanding. So today I'm thankful to say that we have listeners in, of course, the U. S, Canada, Morocco and Australia. So I just want to give some specific shout outs. Saskatchewan, Canada. Thanks for listening in Albany, Minnesota. Nellie Sfard, Virginia Point Pleasant, New Jersey. Dover, Delaware. Among with among so many other cities across the US, with people tuning in to listen to the show. And I'm honored to have you here. Thank you very much for being here. So today is a very, very special episode for me because I am bringing on my first guest. Um, since we started the podcast and my guest, his name is John Sahatjian. John is an 18 year emergency service veteran and the police fire and EMS dispatcher. He formally served as chief of the South Wall Fire Rescue Company Fire District number three, which is in Wall Township, New Jersey. He was chief of the department from 2012 to 2018 and in that time he developed the uniformed division and established a structural collapse special operations team. John is also a nationally certified level 2 fire instructor who currently instructs at the Middletown Fire Academy. And he is the owner of Jersey Shore Emergency Training. Did I get that correctJohn?

spk_0:   2:05
Yes, sir. 

spk_0:   2:06
Thanks for having me.

spk_1:   2:07
Yeah, no problem. Thanks. Thanks for being here with me. I'm excited. My first guest. 

spk_0:   2:13
What an honor.

spk_1:   2:14
So a little background on how John and I kind of linked up. You know, social media is awesome. You know, it's just a great thing the amount of people that I have met and connected with through Instagram, Facebook, Twitter, whatever. That I probably would have never met if it wasn't for social media and John, listened to the first episode where we primarily focused on what the focus of the podcast was gonna be professional volunteers. And we immediately hooked up through some direct messages. And it's a message that he has been sharing in Jersey through his instructional career and his his career in the in the chief's ranks. And, uh, what else can I say? You know, we are passionate about what we're talking about, and I'm glad to have you. 

spk_0:   3:10
Absolutely, it's an honor to be here. And not only, uh you know that I love what you're preaching and what your goal is in your mission. Um, but it's so important to the fire service and especially today with your, um, you know, the episode two that came out about retention? Um, I think, um, you know, we kind of talked before the show, but you can have 25 episodes just on the 1st 2 episodes that you did. So, uh, you know, I'm glad to be a part of it. I really am.

spk_1:   3:42
Yeah, there's so many different directions that you could go in with this and, you know, one of one of the things that has has always kind of irked me as a volunteer is, um, I had some great mentors coming up, and some of them were volunteer firefighters. Some of them were career firefighters. But you know, one thing those mentors always, um, instilled in me was to continue with your training. You know, be the best that you could be at the job. And, you know, just cause you're not collecting a paycheck doesn't mean you need to be any less trained or any more prepared for what you're going to be doing out there, you know? And that's one thing that has always stuck with me. Um, and you know my goal as a volunteer. Um, I've had opportunities to go the career path over the last 30 years. Didn't work out for me, for whatever reason. Family really family. Wife gets family, you get settled in. But, um, you know, I always strive to be at the same level, training wise. Yeah. You know, going out and getting the courses and pretty much went with, uh my goal was to get the same level of training as a career firefighter. You know, the 229 And the only thing I never did was my CPAT. So and I try and instill that in new firefighters coming up that again. Nobody's checking your union card at the door. Right? Right. Why do you feel that you could be less prepared just because you're a volunteer?

spk_0:   5:27
Yep. And actually, you know, I talked about it a lot at the academy. And when I go speak, when I do my classes is that my famous line is, uh, when I was chief, I always said, You know, when I when I have to go tell your significant other your wife, your kids, whatever, that you died in a fire. God forbid. I'll be sure to add, in the end that it was just volunteer. So nobody cares and that makes it okay. And, you know, a lot of guys were like, Oh, you shouldn't even joke about that. And I'm like, I'm not joking, you know? Yeah, this is this is life or death. The fire doesn't care. Not only do the residents not care, the fire doesn't care. It doesn't know the difference between a, you know, volunteer or career. It doesn't matter. And and the fact that guys hold that as like an excuse drives me insane. You know, we're just follow, too. You can't expect that. Yeah, that just doesn't cut it. I love you say and you talk about is that if not everything, you know, if you don't have to be an interior firefighter so you don't have to be a hard charger. And you mentioned it a few times about being an outside fireman or pump guy. Um, but be good at that. So if you don't want to go up on the roof, then don't go on the roof. You know, if you just want to be a chauffeur, then be really good at being a pump operator. So, yeah, you know, I'm not trying to discourage people. Um, but I love that you talked about that too. That was really good.

spk_1:   7:05
Yes. Well, one of one of the things that that I mentioned in Episode two the recruitment and retention episode was the argument from some that today's training requirements are killing the volunteer fire service. And that's why we don't have any volunteers. Um, and to me, is it limiting our volunteer pool? Probably is, because I know, you know, like I said in that episode, Sure, most people today are not working single jobs like they used to. They're not working in their hometown, you know, They're they're they're commuting to work or their community to work during the day, and then they're coming home. They're working a second job at night. So sure, our time restrictions on people part of our volunteerism problem. Yeah, absolutely. But that doesn't allow us to minimize the importance of training and minimize the importance of being held to the higher standard right to where your tables and change up.

spk_0:   8:12
Yeah, that doesn't change when you train how you're supposed to train. So I posted on my Instagram today. Um, the way you do one thing is the way you're going to do everything right. So So you're Yeah, you may be volunteer. It may not be getting paid for whatever the case may be. So in my other firehouse, South Wall Monday night, that was it. It was your training that every week you knew you were gonna be there. Now, where I'm at Brick it's Thursday night, so whatever. That's your night. Um, do I expect you to make 52, no, but you got to make your percentage.  I always preached when I was chief, was that be here on time. Give me an hour and let's hit it hard for an hour. I think what some companies do is that they make these drills and they think they gotta be three hours. You know, for a Saturday, it doesn't need to be, hit it hard for an hour. Give me an hour of your time and I'll make you think I'll make you use your head, and I'll prepare you for what you need to be prepared for. And when I say I don't, you know, I don't mean I know everything. I mean, we will. Yeah, right. Um, so I think that's part of what you're saying is with the education of stuff. Yeah, it's a long time, you know, I think you said you teach at the academy too. So look at us trying to get together just to sit down for 1/2 hour. It took us a while. I got to go to work and then I'm going to my other job, the gym and whatever. So when you do do a drill, you need to concentrate on the, um you know, the, uh I can't think of the word right now. 

spk_1:   9:48
The time commitment that the person is making coming in.

spk_0:   9:52
Exactly. Yeah, so? So when you think of that commitment, you need to make the drill worth their while. And that is like one of the biggest things that I could teach when I teach. I teach an officer's class specifically designed for volunteers, and that that is a huge portion of what I talk about is the time is somebody is their most valuable asset. And you need to you as the officer and the chief need to promote that the culture that when you're in this firehouse and you're doing these things and you're going on calls, you're wearing your gear. You're doing everything right because we don't know who's gonna be on the truck with us. We don't know what time it's gonna be. We don't know what's gonna happen and we need to be ready all the time. So doing those little things every day, hitting it hard in the training nights, you know, and making them take something away from it. It is an invaluable, you know, one of the most important things. I think it's forced the culture, the training, the retention. Uh, I mean, all of it.

spk_1:   10:55
Well, we need that. We need to value people's time, you know, And then the Nets. That's where you're getting. I just I'm just coming out of actually doing two blocks of an officer class, and we had very similar discussion that whatever night your training night is, it's really coincidental. My old department was on Monday night. My department that I'm in my department that I've been in now for the last eight years is Thursday night. So can't you Can't You can't make that up. But, you know, I try to instill in my other officers who who as officers want to learn and want to consistently do things better that you know, we have two values. We have the value people's time. So if drill is Thursday night, it starts at seven o'clock when they walk in the door at seven, which they do right. Normally, the membership isn't there. There's a few people that come in early, and I like to hang out. But for the most part, everybody shows up at seven o'clock because that's when the drill starts that we need to be ready to go. You know, we need to get prepared. We need to be set up. We need that. Not only do we have to have a plan A but we need to have a plan B. Because we just talked about we talked about this the other night. You know what happens if we have a drill set up that's primarily focused on interior operations and no interior? Firefighters show up that night when we get 10 or 12 exterior, fire, police or chauffeur's. You know, we gotta have something set up where? All right, guys, we got to shift gears because their times just as valuable as the other guys in the water. What are we gonna do? We're not going to say, all right? We're not We're not. You know, tonight's plans canceled. We're just gonna sweep the floors and wash the trucks that won't that won't bring him back, either.

spk_0:   12:41
Yeah, and I'll give you a perfect example that my old company in South World the guys you know, the 99.9% of my heart chargers. And when I was chief one year, we have this old farmhouse we trained in, and we had this big, nice drill set up. Uh, you know, we're gonna be a mock structure fire smoke machine, everything. So me and my captain, I think it was We get over there early and we go to set the smoke machine up. It's pumping smoke. Everything's great. Go back to the firehouse, get the guys, we come back. The smoke machine died, so there's no smoke now. Um, but, you know, like you said, we gotta have a Plan B. So we did a nice pump drill, you know, got stretched lines upstairs, and they did a great job. And and that is to show all of those training drills before that of the intensity that we brought. You know, these guys are gonna bring that, too, when they bring their game. You know, you don't want him to show up. Like you said, we're gonna put the rehab 10 up again tonight. Like, that's not a drill, you know, right? You got to train these guys for life and death and just as much the officers to they've got to be prepared, you know, because again, you don't know who's gonna be on that first raid. You don't know who's gonna be hanging out of a window when you get a call. Um, and I can't say it enough that all of that comes back to being this professional culture, that nobody cares that you're not getting paid right. It just doesn't matter.

spk_1:   14:07
We, um did you happen to catch the video that was been out there for the last few weeks from from Harrisburg, Pennsylvania. I got a guy hanging up the ladders with the ladders, so we decided, um, in my department, that beginning of the year, we were basically going to take the firefighter one skill sheet curriculum and just start from basics. You know, winter's winters, you know, you know, tough time of year to plan stuff up here. So he said, Right, we'll start with basics. We'll do. Ladders will do. Ropes and knots will do. Dressing Will do. Ah, air consumption A ll the basics and then when the weather breaks will start to get a little bit more advanced. So that particular fire is a great example where guys like, really, we're gonna do ladders again, you know? And we're not. We're not smoking the building up. We're not going in. You were just gonna throw ladders. But you look at a situation like that, and it's a perfect example as to why, regardless of who we are, regardless of what we're doing, we need to be proficient at our basic skills because that could have been in my company that could have been in your company. That could have been any volunteer company out there. We're guys hanging out the third floor window, and and the only people that are out there to get him a ladder are are the exterior scene support operatives

spk_0:   15:31
and they got to do it. And that guy doing that, that guy either would have been, would have been dead or seriously injured. I think that was a 35 quarter that they threw. Yeah, I Look, you know, how often do you practice throwing a 35? Everybody just moans and groans you got to do it.

spk_1:   15:46
How often And you're out of training. So you're out of the training center. So how often do you take a 35 off of an engine? And the thing doesn't even function? Yeah, yeah, that you can't even get the third fly to go up in the air because it's been so long since it's been used maintenance. It's been taken off the truck, so yeah, so I had off of the off the recruitment intent retention episode. I had a good question come in about I'm engaging our younger members in the fire service today and how to keep them engaged. What?

spk_0:   16:22
He's a regular. What's on that? Um so I'll just mention along with that the low sap, I think you hit it right on the head. And so far, I you know, I don't wanna to your home in here, but your episodes have been, like, right on cue with things like, You've mentioned low sap and an 18 year old kid doesn't care about Lohse. Um, days I do now that I'm married and I'm 35 I'm like, Oh, wow, that's a nice chunk of change. I got sitting there, but sure, when I was 18 also wanted to do was go to fires. I don't care. So, you know, engaging them as faras money and stuff. I don't know. I think you're right about the low set. But it's comes back to the culture and being professional. And there's a fine line to walk between, um, being an asshole and being, you know, a professional organization. Um and, you know, I don't know if you can I don't know if you could teach that you need that. You need the core group of people, too, to, um like, breed that in the firehouse, you know, and And that, like the training, What we talked about the culture having pride in your company. That's all things that that brings people there. Like you said, the social media, they see your facebook page. Look at the look at the pride, the drills they're doing. Look at how good their drills are and the equipment and all this stuff. You know, promoting yourself in that way is what keeps these. What keeps the guys in it, you know, keeps the guy's active and and wanting to be a part of something. And, you know, it doesn't have to be so focused on the young guys because, you know, you get older members that joined, but it's just the attitude that you carry that firehouse. You gotta have a little chip on your shoulder, you know?

spk_1:   18:17
Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. You know, I'm I'm I say it all the time and I try not to. I try and keep my my episodes and my social kind of department generic, you know? Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But, um, I say the whole time, we're really fortunate. I mean, we've got members from 16 years old, two guys up into their seventies, and the guys that air up in their seventies were there, Not as obviously. They're not as active as they used to be, but they still come to drill night. They still pay attention to what's going on. They're still proud of being a member of the organization, you know, and and, you know, their experience and what they've seen over the years, um is something that nobody can ever replace. You know, you I can't tell. I can't tell those stories, you know, but But they can. And And when the when the younger guys, you know, see and hear about the progression of their fire department. That goes a long way. And when they see these guys that have been coming around for 50 years and they're still coming around, you know, I think that speaks volumes of oven organization.

spk_0:   19:29
That's a winner. And I think I say it to when I go around. It had been to a lot of firehouses in the in the ST Ana this year. I'll be in Pennsylvania, in California, doing some lectures. Um, it seems to me that and you've been in the fire service a long time. Yeah, the culture of the firehouses is bred by the senior men. It's not so much, you know, The chief could be the chief. He makes policies. He does this. He doesn't that. But the senior men of that organization that hard charges the guys who really do something. There are the ones who breed that culture. That's an you know, you got to get them on board. You got to get them to buy into your program. If you're a new officer, our chief or whatever and like you said that having them around is invaluable.

spk_1:   20:20
So I think, you know, I think one of the big changes from when I first got involved now other than the, you know, than the socioeconomic changes of just the environment people working multiple jobs, all that stuff that we already hit on is it's also the change. And I hate that, Like, sound like my dad when I say this. But like the change in in our in youth and what youth expects out of something. You know, when I when I originally joined the volunteers, you know, I knew that I was expected to be there, so I would always be there. And whether it was a drill night, as many calls as I could make a parade, a special training. I was there. And if I couldn't be there, I would I would go out of my way to tell the chief for the assistant chief or whomever I get in touch with. Hey, Chief, I'm not gonna be around this weekend. I know we got a big drill, but I'm I'm working or I'm going away with my family. I would go out of my way to do that today that the script is completely flipped. It's it's, you know, you don't have to. You have to completely go after them, you know? And I think the respect for probation isn't what it used to be. Um, and and I think that's definitely a problem for us, you know, because just that I don't want to say, uh, lack of respect for authority, because I don't I don't think it's about authority. I think it's more about respect for the organization and what you're a part of and the fact that people do depend on

spk_0:   21:55
you. Yep. So I think when I got a the kind of a funny story for you when I joined, I moved the brick with my wife and I joined Breck. I was chief for eight years in South Wall, and it was good. Everything's great, you know, Teach And I joined Brick, and, uh, they're giving me my gear the first night, and ah, he gives me my home it with the regular shield, You know, 23 on whatever. And, um, I said I don't have to wear a probie shield, and he was like, No, you're you're on probation for a year, but you're good right. And, uh, I said, Well, I said Okay. You know my other firehouse, you wear a probe issue. You know, you were a probation for Donald care. We are. Your New York City ran a probe ship. That's just the way it waas. Um, but I was the same way. Hey. Hey. I'm sorry, miss that call today. I was that worker. You know, I'm sorry I couldn't. And I do think that it's different, and I don't know who the blame is. I don't know if there is any blame that falls on somebody for that. I do think it's different, though, and I agree with that. But that's where they've seen your men come into. Really? You know, drill down to these guys like you're a part of something. Now, you know, this isn't a coffee club. You know, we're not without flipping burgers. That went right. You know, you potentially are or saving somebody's life. And and again, I think I said it a couple times. The residents and the fires don't care who you are. They don't care that you're an 18 year old kid and you just graduated fire one. They don't care, right right, Right. When that engine pulls up, they don't care what color it is. They don't say what names on the side when somebody calls, not one. It's the worst day of their life, even most of the time. You know, some people are habitual offenders, but huh? You know that 90% of it is the worst day of their life. And if it's a fire alarm at three in the morning and their kid can't get to sleep in the dog, they want to know that you know how to change a battery that they're gonna You're gonna care for them. It's those little things that you do that add up, you know, to that having to be a part of something and and, uh, learning as you go. But

spk_1:   24:03
absolutely one of one of the things just building on what you just said up here, where I am not so much in lower part, partially in my community. But a lot of the outlying communities were the outlying towns in our county are are huge second home destinations up here in the mountains and, you know, in the Catskills, and people come and people coming out of the metro area, you know, and and I talk about this all the time, is they don't They don't know the difference. They absolutely don't know the difference if they dial 911 and and a fire truck pulls up regardless, like you said of what color it is. A lot of them have no clue that anybody on that apparatus is violent. Here. They're coming out of the five boroughs. They're thinking it's the f D N Y. You know, they don't know that the guy driving just left his job at the highway department and the four other guys in the back left whatever job they're doing to jump in that fire, and they really have they they have no clue. And and and ah, a lot of people just don't understand that.

spk_0:   25:09
Yeah, well, that's the other. If they don't, they don't have any concept of, like what? Volunteerism. It's right. So, you know, um, like, we get all of our costs on the phone. I don't know if you guys do the same. Mostly, though, so people don't understand, like your pager or whatever will activate, and then you have to drop what you're doing drive to the firehouse, get on the truck, drive to the scene. So it's a whole another culture that these people are never exposed to. But when, you know, speaking of like the professional volunteer, that's why it's so important to acting the role, you know, have your gear on, Get off the truck. I mean, look at the difference When a when an engine or a truck, whatever pulls up to a scene in a car accident our house and

spk_1:   25:55
they get off the

spk_0:   25:55
truck and they got riding assignments. They, you know, get off is a crew. They get their tools is a crew and they walk up with the crew And the officer says, You know, what do you got? What do you need? It would have, I mean, And then you see some company get off there like put your jacket on there, get you know, I mean, just just the in impression that makes on the residence who may not even be affected by the cold. But they're just watching you, right? You know what? The impression that makes on the residents, the town, the taxpayers and then the company itself. The members you get off the trip. Like if a new guy messes up. No, no. Hey, we don't do that here. You know, You get off the truck, you get, you get a tool, and we walk up together as a crew, you know, and that that all plays a part in tow, like your whole basis. And that's why I was so, like, I had the message right away that I was like, Dude, I'm in.

spk_1:   26:50
Yeah, well, well, you know, look it Aah! You know, like you said, it's so it all ties in together, you know, and how we how we operate and what we do and what people see and how they how they perceive us, you know, And and, uh, you know, I know over the last couple weeks, I've had some discussions with with different leaders within my area and, you know, and up here, there's still a lot of, um, departments that where the volunteers don't go to the firehouse, you know, they still do that. Go to the scene thing and the 1st 20 years of my career that that's what I knew because that's what we did. Then when I went to the company I'm in now. It was a complete change in culture because they crew the rigs. Everybody comes to the firehouse, the gears at the firehouse, they ride up right out on the engine or the rescue. And at first, that was like it took me a little while to grasp that. But as you know, as I got used to it and and then once I became an officer, I was like, I would never go back, you know? I know, I know. I'm getting ah, rig full of people ready to work. You know, I know by my phone and I am responding. Who's commented where they're coming from, how long they're going to be, You know, I mean, there's so many things that as the chief officer, I can start formulating in my head just off of that. Just off of that information alone. Yeah, it's just a change in you know how we think about things

spk_0:   28:25
and how we, uh, how

spk_1:   28:27
we adapt to, You know, one one topic that came up in the in the first episode, Waas, Um, some of the some of the social media feeds that air out there that are just dedicated to ripping apart the volunteers. And I think I you know, I think I look at that a little bit differently, and I'm gonna go out here and all women and put you on the spot. And I think you might agree with me that I don't like it. I don't like reading it. It frustrates me when I do, but we're the ones that are the reason for it. I mean, if which, if we weren't weren't out there doing all this stupid shit, there would be no content for these guys to be posting all the time. And look, some of them go above and beyond, you know, they'll find what you know, but some of them are legitimately posting discussions that we've been having for years. Turnout

spk_0:   29:29
gear. So, by the way, I need I need one of your stickers. Uh huh. Yeah. So, um, here's Here's my opinion on that. And I've been a chief for a while, and I ransom fires, and they don't even have to be fires. They could be long duration instead, Um, I don't need to be standing behind my truck talking about two radios, writing on a pad with a turnout gear. You know, with a turnout jacket and helmet right now. £20 helmet. Um, I I always tried to put my bunker pants on or my helmet, you know, term. But let me be very clear. Once I went mobile, I'm in gear. You know, if I'm a forward chief, you know, if it's a mutual aid or whatever, I'm I'm out of my truck. Scott, Pack two. Yeah. Um, but to be behind, you know, say you're at, like, a bomb scare something that you're there for four hours? Sure. And it's 100 degrees out. I don't need to be in that jacket. Turnout, Bryants. And you know you got me.

spk_1:   30:34
Yeah, absolutely.

spk_0:   30:36
But But, you know, if you go to New York City, the guys weren't pants and and the jacket now and you know so so, yeah, we do it to ourselves. We're biggest. And, you know, it's same thing with with drinking fire volunteer. You know, they got the shirt, tongue and underwear in the shirts and hats and posted on social media that their drink. You gotta be careful with your post on social media nowadays, especially especially for volunteers, because we have that stigma of were just drunks. Um, you know, you can't like now you can have one drink and get on the rig grand. And so, you know, that's a whole We could have a whole nother show just on that.

spk_1:   31:24
Well, so I'll tell you, I tell you one of my one of my more frustrating days in in my career, Um, and this is going back quite quite a ways. My my first go around is Chief. Back in back in 1 4002 we did a controlled burn for a homeowner. Um, we used we used a structure for some training burns, you know, eventually took the whole thing down for them. And in my pre conversations with this homeowner, you know, he discussed a donation Is a donation to the fire company. And of course, you know, I would never discuss a specific monetary donation because I don't think that's right, you know, But he said I'll make a donation to the company. I'm like, OK, great. That's awesome. You know, uh, you know, we're happy to have the building. Were happy to use it for training. Whatever you condone, eight would be great. So we use this building however many times we d'oh day comes we finally we finally burned to the ground, and, um, a couple weeks later, I got a call from the from the firehouse. A chief so and so dropped stopped by to drop off that donation for the burner. We did. I'm like, All right. Great. Did you take a look at it now? You should probably come down here. Take a look at yourself. Think so? I'm thinking, you know, I'm thinking Wow. You know, this guy probably dropped off one hell of a check, you know? Yeah, I get to the firehouse, I pulled, and I walk in the office and there sits, Ah, case of beer. And I'm Yeah, and And I'm thinking to myself, you know, that right there Just spoke volumes to me of wants some Yet of what somebody was thinking about volunteer firefighters, You know that We're just a bunch of beer drinkers, you know, that was in that donut. And that donation was gonna make us happy. And yeah, you're right. It was It wasn't insult, but it could open my eyes too. You know what a lot of the public thinks, and I think you can tie that in today into what we were talking about before about social media, you know? Yeah, how it can It can kill us. Oh, yeah, Somebody does something stupid, but it can also on the company level if we do it the right way, it can also really, really highlight all the time, energy and effort and dedication that goes into being a

spk_0:   33:48
volunteer. Yeah, in when I was chief, I would always post at the end of the year over the beginning of the new. You know, the hours of the training that the guys did The comedy calls all this stuff, and people would eat it up. They love it. And so you gotta post correctly, You know, there's a tactical way. Both show one thing you know, real quick, just to mention a story. I, um I was talking to Ah, you know, Joe Q. Public. And he was saying about this guy and that other company. And next thing you know, it's all B s in this thing. When he knew some guys who were firing in New York City and he goes, Ah, you know, we'll call them to go, for example, that he says, Well, you know, it's not like Joe, you know, he's a real fired in New York City. And if this guy didn't see it all over my face, I was like, What the hell did you mean by that? Right? And he's like, Well, you know, it was a fireman in the Bronx, you know, So like, he's really fine And, you know, you guys do what, like a couple 100 calls a year, and I'm like, Ah, we do almost 1000 And, um, you know where it's the same fire in the Bronx as it is now. Does he get more frequent? Absolutely sure, But it's the same two and 1/2 story wood frame in in Mama's count in the Ocean County as it is in the Bronx. So right, right, right, that's it. Till I was like, flabbergasted when I heard that and just

spk_1:   35:18
and we talk about training, we've talked about training a few times already. That is exactly the reason as to why our training needs to be on point, and we need Thio focus on conducting realistic quality training because the guy in the Bronx is goingto how many fires a shift versus? Yeah, you know, the guy in the in solving county, New York or down by you and Jersey is goingto maybe a fire a month. All right, if he's in a real slow area, maybe. I mean, what we've got departments up here that if they go to a fire a year like, yeah, it's a big thing, you know,

spk_0:   35:57
and think about think about how dangerous that is. How much how much more dangerous that is that you know you're going to fire. Say you go to a fire ship, the same crew, you know, the same guys. Maybe change upon her, too. But think about the companies that goto a fire a year with, you know, 90 year old pump operator chief who's never Miranda fire, you know? I mean, that is a city that is a recipe for disaster.

spk_1:   36:24
Yeah, and go ahead. Sorry.

spk_0:   36:26
No, And just to like, kind of wrap up. We said was that's all of what we talked about. And what the two examples we just gave is why we have to carry ourselves as professionals. You know that because the persona that people have of us and the and the attitude that we project is how they're going to receive it. And we have to act like professionals or else we're just killing ourselves. We just want to ourselves.

spk_1:   36:54
I get it. You know, the slow rural fire department that rarely sees any kind of action. You know, I don't I don't know that world. I know it for through the instructional angle, and you and I imagine it has got, you know, we talked about keeping younger members engaged. It's got to be really, really hard to keep somebody engaged when even if you're training, training, training. But you're never using what you're training for, you know that that's, that's I would imagine, has got to be riel challenge, you know?

spk_0:   37:31
Oh, yeah,

spk_1:   37:32
when when you're when you're always getting ready for the job. But you're never actually doing the

spk_0:   37:37
job, and it's nice to see it's nice to see what you work on put to action. So I you always notice in a firehouse, and I'm sure the same is that when you were doing the strange that morale when you don't have a fire or an extrication or something I hate to say something good, but you know what I mean? Sure, Um, uh, you kind of see the morale dip. You see, like the shit talking star, you see, because these they're getting that, you know, they want to use it. They're putting in all this time and effort, and they want to use it. And, you know, I think that's a really good place to be in in a volunteer firehouse, that these guys want to go to jobs and they want to train. And they wanted him to train it to work. But you gotta be careful. Like you said, those other departments that don't get the frequency of fires. Um, you know, and we're not super busy down, and, you know, we don't go to a fire week, but right way get enough. Coals were like, OK, this might be a job, you know, get your anxiety going, you know? So you got to think about what you're doing. But like you said, that could be tough. That could be really thought.

spk_1:   38:37
Yeah. Absolutely, Absolutely. Well, this this is awesome. And I were word I don't know. We're at, like, 45 50 minutes

spk_0:   38:46
somewhere way. Need another two hours.

spk_1:   38:50
We're definitely going to Ah, we're definitely gonna do this again in the near in the near future. But, you know, tell everybody where they can, where they confined you what you're going to be doing. Um, sure, they confined on social, all that fun stuff.

spk_0:   39:05
So I'm on every social media, John Satch, and my business disturbs you. Sure. Emergency training website. Just for emergency training dot com on instagram. My post Every. You know, I tried to close every day a tip for a fire or something that is helpful. I try to be helpful in the social media world. Not hurtful. Um, I'll be out in California in May. I'm doing a bunch of seminars around here. Coming up. I'm going to I think it's inter shuts in Pennsylvania. It's It's, um, they're doing like a little convention. I don't want to say little. It's actually pretty big to do in a convention for the Pennsylvania in Pennsylvania. So I gotta prove to do that, which is great. My mental health seminar. Um, yeah. So anything ever need mental health? And that's how I got started. Um, talking about mental health and bringing it to light in the in the first responder world. So I'm really passionate about that. And exactly what we talked about today is the professional volunteer and, you know, culture in the fire assets. I mean, my two passions. So,

spk_1:   40:10
yeah, I think we need to We're gonna need to do an episode one of these days on mental health because she talked. We talked prior Thio. I cook the record button that, um, you know, it's something that, thankfully has talked about a lot more today than it used to be. But I think in the volunteer world, especially, it is still ignored more than it should be and whether it's we just don't know, you know, the signs and symptoms and things to look out for Or, you know, like you said earlier, it's it's not cool. So we just ignore it, shove it down the side.

spk_0:   40:47
Yeah, I was that guy. I was that guy where you go, toe? Yeah, it's no big deal, you know, whatever. And you could only do that for so long, you know? Yeah. Takes a toll on your body.

spk_1:   40:57
Yeah. You know, one of the things that I've tried to explain, toe, um, guys, when I'm out doing something, you know what? I'm not doing a lecture at the training center is your outlook on life. My outlook on life when I was 20 and doing this is that is a lot different than it is now. When I'm gonna be 50 this year, you know, I've got a wife I've got, I've got kids, you know? So things back then is horrible. Is this may sound things that involved really anybody? Never. I don't feel like it never really affected me. But now I go toe, you know, you go to a call, something that involves, you know, young kids or a family, and it just, you know, you you process it all differently and

spk_0:   41:40
beautiful. That was beautiful word. That that how you how you process an incident is is what makes it breaks it. Yeah, so and so that could be a whole another day.

spk_1:   41:49
We're well, we're definitely gonna do it. So I appreciate you coming on. This was this was great. I'm that we I'm glad that we managed to Ah, hook up. We're definitely gonna stay in contact and do some things in the future, but, uh, thanks for being here. It's

spk_0:   42:06
Been a pleasure and I'm I'm onboard brother. 100%. You're alright with your mission!

spk_1:   42:10
We'll get you a sticker and you stand and you could stand at the back of the truck with the sticker. 

spk_1:   42:23
There you go. All right, John. Thank you very much.

spk_0:   42:26
Thanks. Have a good day,

spk_1:   42:27
You too. And once again, I want to thank everybody for tuning into the Professional Volunteer podcast. Make sure you check us out on all forms of social media @professionalvolunteer again, that's  @professionalvolunteer or you can find us on the web at professionalvolunteerfirefighter.com or shoot us an email if you have a suggestion for an episode or a comment on a previous episode, we'd love to hear from you. You can email us at professionalvff@gmail.com.  Don't forget  my friends, a paycheck does not make you a professional. How you approach the job does!