Mobile Games Playbook

Episode 1: 2019 Gaming Retrospective and 2020 predictions!

February 10, 2020 GameRefinery Season 1 Episode 1
Mobile Games Playbook
Episode 1: 2019 Gaming Retrospective and 2020 predictions!
Show Notes Transcript

Welcome to the Mobile GameDev Playbook! In this first episode, we review the main game development trends in 2019 and what to expect in 2020! Host Jon Jordan is joined by Chief Game Analyst at GameRefinery Joel Julkunen, and a special guest from Square Enix, Albert Custodio Martinez, to provide insights into what makes a good mobile game. 

spk_0:   0:00
way to mobile game dead playbook, Joiner says. We uncover the latest trends in mobile game design. Hello and welcome to the mobile game developers playbook with me. Your host Jon Jordan, on joining me today for this is our first episode is chief analyst at Game Refinery Yeol.

spk_1:   0:26
Yes, thank you. Yeah, Joel, I'm one of the co founders ofthe game Refinery on. What we do is that we are Alex Platform providing feature level data and other kinds of data for the anybody working in the industry. So Developers, publishers in restores Andi. What I do in the company's basically I'm leaving our analytics department. So are teams of analysts who I know has a lot of games. So I have to have to think about all the features that trending the genres and Jonah taxonomy off the whole market. So really goingto living and breathing on the industry every day. That's my job. Based

spk_0:   1:02
on DH, also joining us today. He's Albert Custodio Martin is he's the product lead at square in X Mobile publishing.

spk_2:   1:11
Yes. Oh, it's critics about publishing West. Well, you might know we have some way of rubbing videogame franchises and just, um radar Life is strange and you're coming. A Rangers game on what I do is basically responsible off the brother side off the game. So basically, I defied a portfolio off the games that we want to tackle and work on in the next years. I also defined the vision off the team, and I'm building a whole bottle team in order to sustain and partner the developers in a new sign off publishing model that is not in the market that wait University be collaborating with the prettiest responding managers on At least you weigh experience. It's a big, big team, but in order to really partner with the Devil, Opera's

spk_0:   2:02
good, Good. So this is our first podcast, So I'll take her brief time to just explain kind of what we're doing and why we're doing it. So mobile games, obviously enormous, that the largest single segment off the games industry at the moment by revenue on. But it's kind of a lot going on. There's a lot of moving parts. Things are changing all the time, So the point of us doing this podcast is to dig a bit more into providing insights into what makes a good mobile game. What kind of stops? Working? What kind of stuff? Probably game designers shouldn't be thinking about. And it could be anything from kind of game features, too. Things like Monetisation or retention. The interesting thing about mobile games. They have all these different kind of layers going on. So but let's talking from me. Let's find out a bit more about the guests on our show today. So, Jones, you want to tell us a bit about game? Refinery? What you do that?

spk_1:   2:51
Yeah, it is like that. Somebody might think playing games for for work is, since he's fine about five years. Of course I could. Good games. That's a good game. But about 1000 might be right. A lot of games have begun. True, True, my iPhones and android devices. So, yeah, let us let us let us give me.

spk_0:   3:11
In fact, I've been told that you have played well analysed. Need over 1000 mobile games. Which other? No, that's that looks like torture. Yeah, great. So you're providing us with the deep insights on Albert. What you do as a perfectly that square next mobile publishing?

spk_2:   3:29
Yes. Oh, it's critics about publishing West Well, you might know we have some way of rubbing videogame franchises. Just, um, radar. Life is strange and you're coming Rangers game on What I do is basically responsible off the other side off the game. So basically, I defied a portfolio off the games that we want to tackle and work on in the next years. You also defined the vision off the team, and I'm building a whole bottle team in order to sustain and partner the developers in the new sign off publishing model that is not in the market that wait University be collaborating with the prettiest responding managers on At least you're way experience. It's a big, big team, but in order to really partner with the devil in

spk_0:   4:20
person good, excellent. So to kick off, I guess we're still just about at the start of 2020 so we can legitimately look back at 2019 and pick out some of the hosts, some of some of the trends. So, Joel, I guess, from your perspective, having having played a lot of games, what were the key, the key trends, that kind of what happened during the year

spk_1:   4:43
2019 was really exciting exciting year for more about more war games. If I if I have to pick up a couple of the biggest trades, are all the movers in the market. The first that comes to mind is, of course, the battle past monetising system eso basically a fortnight kind of hit it big with that one a couple of years ago on 2019 so a lot ofthe implementations across the board, in different genres, off the feature, So I start at this end said it started from a fortnight in the West, of course, but it was viewed as more meat car feature. Some stretch of games also sought to use it, but that's the year when forward we started to see it popping up also in casual games. So now Battle Pass has also kind of made his way to met three games, for example, some slots games a swell on. Now I'm off course talking all about the West. That Western market giant battle pass has been used really, really much in almost 1/3 off the top 200 crossing or so games. Utilise it, of course, in China, a lot of RPG games, core strategy games that kind of are really good in kind of optimising that revenue battle past. But I think that's that's the one we got a big game changer when it comes to gay Monetisation and why it works is actually

spk_0:   6:05
think for people who aren't exactly sure what a battle passes. Maybe maybe worth giving a quick overview of what about passes

spk_1:   6:12
is kind of fun. Let's say it Sze kind of almost like a subscription based, season based system. So in traditional paddle past, you have this season's that might last for, Let's say, like a month, month or sold on. During that season, you usually have tasks or tres shorts to pass. So when you play the game, you get some points on DH. Then when you read sort of point result JJ, you get a reward you. That's how it goes on. The twist is that there is almost always the free layer, so everybody gets to get these tasks and then reports off the free layer. But then you have the kind of that whatever it's called, it can recall the Golden Pass a battle paso our premium pass or whatever, meaning that when you Burgess thiss golden ticket, the premium layer off the battle past system, your divorce, increase in value and off, or even in the can define amount. So, in other words, a fast system offers more playable content and things to do for everybody in the game. But then, if you're willing to kind of put a couple of boxing, you get more, more bigger divorce or even exclusive things that you cannot get with the free free layer. So that's how it how it basically works.

spk_0:   7:29
Yeah, it's got a nice because it also works as a kind of a monthly subscription, people opting into as well. But it really let it really increases the Monetisation across the board. Doesn't it feel kind of a low level player and also increases the retention as well? People aren't paying so that it's like a magic bullet, and he works for you. Works, works for every type of mobile game player, whether they're paying or just playing.

spk_1:   7:51
Yeah, I think e I think you hit the nail in the in the head right there. So So I totally agree with your with your idea that because it engages two players, it's not just like giving you free report like the traditional subscription models. In some cases, you play pay, and then you get, let's say, some 100 James every day or whatever. But this pedal past system engages the players. You have to play it in order to unlock your rewards on DH. The other thing that many people might not be thinking is the reason why the Bell past has made it way. It's very true. Genres in casual as well as in the core is because it's pretty easy to implement, and I'm off course by easy. I mean, it doesn't kind of direct the core game experience. It doesn't run the risk off in balancing the game too badly so it can be attached to any even older. Gable has already really kindof, thoroughly true thought economics or game mechanics and balance systems because still at that battle. That's of course, if you have a minute right on, made it work and without breaking that game experience for that. For that players, Yeah,

spk_0:   8:57
absolutely. I guess that's also nicely means it could be kind of retrospectively fitted to existing games rather than just being something you have to build into new games. Alber, Have you played games of battle passes? Is that something that's kind of caught your attention or any other trends from 2019 your interest to talk about?

spk_2:   9:14
Yes, no change. I would say that has been the success now that the battle bus system it reminds me a some off the Internet off, like how it has been said so Mother systems that wearing all the bother games sometimes I can for weekly activities. Let's call it off season. They call it legal activities, but where you had to reach milestones. And when you return my start doing some things in the game, you get reported by something. But I think it has made like a little innovation here. And that's how I see always on the mobile. Free to play gaming Innovation doesn't come from creating something crazy, but just to add some layers toe from base that already exist. And that's what I see in the battle bus when there's like, okay, just by doing directions, you get some some reward when you reach your master owns, which is for the engagement. But I think that's a logical thing there. When he's like you just for an extra legal money, usually the value that you get for for the money, that your baby's quite significant. And it's worth it from from from usually point of view. And that's what that's what works right, because at the end it's not like it requires engagement of the user. I make them in the name of the game. So I really think that even from a psychological point of view on rewarding even for the user, it's it has Bean really, really nice and really one of the big things

spk_0:   10:33
that is really good. You bring up kind of psychology. Could I think that's something that I get thrown, a kind of mobile game Monetisation, that It's very kind of kind of kind of kind of forces people tricks people into into spending money. Andi, think if anyone actually worked in industry is very clear that that while psychology is kind of important to a line, so we do things that we enjoy doing way certainly only pay for things that we really gain satisfaction out when we only pay for things for a second time for things that we really enjoy, so so it is kind of interesting kind of balance between providing kind of long term kind of enjoyment for the blue playing and then then being prepared to pay money for that. I think the days of trying to trick people into into spending money in a mobile game are long gone.

spk_2:   11:17
Just Yeah, I just just want coming. Sorry when you say it is like, I don't really agree with that on DH, even for for Devil operas. Sometimes like seeing who had been in conversations or even in previous games out there working sometimes in some features that on anything always in the engagement and people having fun, because maybe you're developing a game, a game by default is something fun, that magical. And, you know, the economy that you have. It's Ah, it's not really There's no pasta, let's say to produce any material there. So he's like I would say, Don't be greedy when it comes to reward. ITT's better to have the you're engaged. I know the mainly This will be like him stay and potentially like a CE. He's enjoying the game. He will naturally bay without feeling that either they warn me that

spk_0:   12:05
that's a good point I think I don't know Joel, whether something kind of you pick up in your trends. But certainly as I've been playing kind of mobile games over the last couple of years, I've noticed that that game's that just are more generous and kind of giving up gems or whatever the kind of the kind of reward system is in the game. You just kind of feel like I want to play those games because I'm just kind of there, more generous, any any thoughts on that?

spk_1:   12:27
Yeah, I think you're told. Right and Alberto, I wholeheartedly agree with your notion. Of course, when I beam Monetisation and free play games started years ago, the industry was really new. Developers are testing things and kind of finding the right balance off off, trying to get money out of good players, but also living in play and getting engaged to the game on. Now I think we're in a situation that you mentioned also, that no kind of developers and anybody working with games have realised that maybe the best way to kind of get the best possible end result commercially is just actually let the gamers on players play the game and be engaged and be generous with the rewards. Andi is actually something that we see in many matched three games. If you look at the mystery games live in structures, how they are, they're all out there looking events. Usually they are not not restricting the players. They give unlimited lives. So the players gonna engage his level self off the events on. Then I'm gonna monetising the core gameplay. Mohr So kind of, for example, Blair is running out of moves. You you kind of let the given the option to pay and pay for those. And also, of course, I know that the ads are making their ways. Way to the game's even more is the device that that is also places part partying to kind of find, decreasing the pay walls and on the kind of too harsh, harsh a session like length restriction systems.

spk_0:   14:03
Another. Another thing that's related to that. I've notices a lot of games still have kind of energy systems, but what it used to be was an energy systems to kind of like drive you out the games. You've played enough now, so you're going to something else. Also spend some money to buy more energy Now energy systems seem to reverse and you get so much energy is kind of like you're spending less time trying to, you know, if you like me, I don't know what the way my brain. I tried to use up all my energy in the day, like So I got my little refill during the day during the overnight thing. But it's become this kind of weird retention model where we're actually spending hours in the day just doing mindless things. Just so my energy goes and zero point about that, let's let's look at one more trend, which I think is pretty interesting. So for the last couple years, we've had this kind of, you know, we've been waiting for mental reality. T kind of take off the Apple and Google of support for it in terms of kind of kind of nasty case and stuff in their platforms. But still, we have Pokemon go doing brilliantly, making more money than ever, but basically nothing else. So any thoughts on we're gonna see a Are you saying I'm gonna take off any any any point in the future? Everything, cause it is just like kind of Pokemon go is the exception that proves the

spk_1:   15:14
rule. Yeah, well, of course, it's hard to see is too far into the future. But if you look at the 2019 it became really clear. Pokemon Go Is is the reigning reigning champion and basically the only on really, really big money maker in the location. Best are John, of course way. Have some a couple of good ones and and really once, well, electricity park on working that our world. And, of course, 2019 saw the launch off the reporter air game. The didn't quite live up to the expectations. So what we mean when we are my team's? We've been studying, the market will be unseen. The phenomenon is pretty similar to what has happened in two other genres. We call it tactical battle genre, which is where class really so that John Drastic got the same problem when classroom Okay, motives, huge hit. Andi is still a huge hit, but they are no going too far. If you look at the second best performing tactical battery game like luxury all, it is kind of far far behind that their revenues royalist making on the other one is building model John, your strategy on, like clash of clans it's located. So we have a lot ofthe lot off other strategy games, like forex strategy games that are making a lot of money. But it is really similar kind of building. Belgian right like clash of clans is there are no other titles behind Clash of clans Dutilleux close behind closure plan. So it seems like the like the genre genre has limited or fill it amount off our demand. Onda pocket go pretty well kind ofthe fulfils the needs ofthe those players who want you want. You engage in that kind of flair. And why not? Because I'm a go off course. It is a perfect fit wise, of course. Gotta catch em all. Whatever aan den, if you think about the teachers and the events that game has introduced since its launch, like the PPS and that kind of more social elements and then off course, a huge events that kind of one day when they launched everybody who ever played programming goal will be will be there trying Teo kind of unlock all the content. And although the exclusive for Campbell. So yeah, that's that's kind of while the Judah's 19 looks like an under 2020 were not aware of any too big they are, well, well, Myra Kraft Jr is in close to being at the moment, the numbers haven't Bean that good, but it's still in the early stages. Maybe maybe that could be maybe, Maybe if my craft can kind of tap into the Mina crafts user base on did make all the fright implementation when it comes to features and make it all fit together. That could be the next challenger for Pokemon go, but remains to be seen how it goes.

spk_0:   18:09
Yeah, I guess that they're also this idea of definition. I mean the then if you've been involved in the argument about whether Pokemon go is actually in a game anyway, because most people just play with, they are switched off and it's really Asian based game. And no, we're not know those arguments on this bodyguard, but I guess it is is gonna interesting that maybe that we'll see a r maybe coming in a bit Mohr in kind of smaller kind of nuggets, so it won't be the kind of the game because it's just too difficult technically, and people sit down and set it up and have, you know, maybe markers or a table or something. But maybe having a fun little kind of a are many game that then can expand from that I ever any any views on augmented reality?

spk_2:   18:49
Yes, no, just to echo what what you mentioned. I think we've been like Screen IX. We're analysing constantly. The market are trans evolutions in them, off macros like revenues, don't note. And some of the FBI's at the relevant. With what he said, since our opinion, well, she was like Give me five more for their future said then it's It's way. Follow all of them quite closely, and it's true that they are. Ah, I really think it's a difficult one. The difficult market toe stamping thing you're competing with Ah, with mango was almost all the market. There is not easy and we also have to think in talk on anything. The cost of development of these games, it's not reasonable is not easy. That organised the objects you know on the real world is a lot of course effort. In times of the Roman and I don't see that clear the return, all that I don't have a clear. So I would say is like, difficult and challenging a chant in general or for developers to to start being honest. And I

spk_0:   19:55
think I got something else. You said it was kind of interesting. Maybe he's, Ah, more long term trend is that often you kind of scene kind of genres or sub genres kind of emerge? And there's bean, maybe kind of one gun obvious kind of leader of the pack and be like super cell games and then and then kind of copy people copying or trying to do a variation on that. But over time, what I guess what we find is is very much like when it takes all market that the even at the beginning. They may be kind of 10 games in launching a new genre and the wind and the biggest one has 50% of the market over time. The other ones seem to fall away, and we've been lots of headlines this year, even that this year last year that people games like clash of clans there Now that's almost years old now, having their best revenue months ever, which seems impossible. But that's kind of gets a product of that kind of winner takes all market. And the more money you're making, the more you can invest in tow you features. And that's all thing just continues. Toe kind of

spk_1:   20:49
expand. Yeah, it's curious case. And if you compare genre since up generous to get there like Amazing, they're a couple of a couple of genres that gonna fab, that's his suffer from left gonna phenomena, the ones that we have already come true. But then they are genres like huge jars with a lot of demand that are able to sustain. Many are several kind of heat that say, 50 or 100 grossing, cursing games across the world like a tree, for example, Or or the forex strategy games, just to name a few are sluts games in the in the U. S. Especially eso ITT's. It's like I said, when it comes to this new emerging genres, that seems to be the case that, at least in the beginning, there is the couple off. Couple off, got a fat challengers and then 11 clear, clear king off the Hill on, then it goes from there. So like like, for example, got better genre or CCG games. Heart Stone is still still the only one in the fact that has been able to enjoy good success. Are really, really good success in the top crossing Jonas. But let's see if that changes in 2020.

spk_0:   21:59
Good. I think that's enough of looking back trends. So our you're kind of looking, I guess kind of forward in the sense of looking at it what games you think are going to be hit in the in the future and trying to work with those developers. So talk a bit about about that. Now, when you're kind of looking at the what you think is gonna gonna work in the future, you spend a lot of time looking at kind of what's working now, or you're looking for developers with, like, mad innovations that you think can come in and disrupt the market. Probably everybody would challenge the two. How does that work

spk_2:   22:28
that a little boy I think Azzan everything like balance is the right approach. I applied to everything. Um, yeah, honestly. Well, I've been in development side before, now in the publishing side on what I've seen is like many developers, even that come to you when you approach them. And they come with some crazy ideas that they look amazing and kind of like our Hollywood movies. But I don't see how would this apply Under 50 played. So what? What I really like and what I feel nothing more. It makes more sense is no see what works in the market. Don't replicate, because when you want to already go for even if you have bean one heat on Lee that is in the market before your gonna be, they're gonna be others. Eso It's not only these, but he's just like from identifying trends. What can you meet Cy? I really I'm a fan, really fine off like mixing generals and making like habits ofthe hopes and made us off different games because I think there's nothing written in stone infertile playing. There's nothing like I don't like the answers. When it's like that is never gonna work or these impossible. That's that's not true. Adi. Security, I think, has been proven over the time. Every year there's something that this was like, Oh, but I cannot work like Well, actually, it could. Just because people said in their heads is not gonna work, but I really believe more in, ah, mixing generals taking like meant us from sometime generals and mixing them with your looks off some others. I really think this faith this from the innovation comes and one of the things that I like to do also Lottie's. Here's the research you service area to market analysis so that that's because at the end you're not building the game for yourself. You need to cheque your your what? You think you're ready to go to the market, and there's nothing better that as your customer in this player, what are they willing and what did they value? You don't invest time in features that have zero value on Ben, you know, make a making prison cost of the game and make it like makes sense to develop. So I really I really believe on these lines. There's already a lot in the market is just a matter of like, how can you mix it that it works in a right way, and once you've makes it, what can you add that has this this extra layer, which I believe more in the 70 2010 right, works 20. What can you make a little bit better and 10% innovation. I would I would make all those things. I would say. I think the crazy innovation don't get me wrong, But I think this goes more for, like, big companies that are really established. And they are not that many of the chance be giants that can really spend by India like tryingto build something crazy. I don't seeing that other companies just financially robust enough to be able to invest millions in games like 1 to 3 years in development and then beaver experiment, I believe. More like

spk_0:   25:19
one of the nice things about kind of mobile. I don't know what one of the things that moment I should say it is is that you can This is very kind of robust, kind of testing kind of pipeline. You can do it so it sounds like you're doing a lot of kind of coming in kind ofyou to testing that you're controlling it all. So you have this kind of a long process of soft launch when you're kind of testing in various territories. And maybe it seems like now people different sorts of testing. They do kind of like technical testing in certain markets and then kind of feature testing. And then then why do things? What did you think that it means? Some of the innovation can be lost. Everything. You're everything you're doing. You're always looking to see what the reaction is. And maybe some maybe something's wouldn't come together in the individual steps. They wouldn't be. These wouldn't go. All that's really good because it gets is, can come back to the Apple view of how you create product, which is no asked. No, no ask. Users just come up with something on. When they see it, they'll go. That's amazing. How'd you do with not being kind of deluged by user information when you when you start to try and build out these kind of

spk_2:   26:18
think that tze that's nice but I think it's like as I said before, it's pretty risky, understands that I'm not sure how many companies can just run games in the market and I would say the board of directors are like, Yeah, sure, let's try again, something you you feel it. Okay, No worry. Trying again. In the end, it's a business behind. And as I said, I will say that yes, big corporations with lots money in the bank then can really does this. It's true, I agree that it can. It can kill a little bit this kind of creativity off that maybe you can find it in other sectors, and even then sometimes maybe not under feet of clay. But let's let's say the other way. I think this despite the uncertainty, it is one of the market where you can the risk the most. What you doing on DH? The fact that you can talk literally to your players to your customer base and ask them what they like and what they don't like and how within visit and what they were. You know, not even from from even mechanics, but from Ally. I come back to the same point before, like psychological point of view, right is like, What are they need? What do you look, you play this kind off. What is behind your psychology? It's not. I'm not even talking about the future, but what is it behind? And I don't think this is like something common in most of the markets have been working in in other industries that has nothing to do with mobile free to play. And it wasn't that easy. I knew until the brother was not in the market you couldn't even see sometimes a reaction. I was much more risk in your vest in much more years developing this project. This product's right, so I really think it's a It's a great opportunity and still doesn't kill the innovation, because again, I'm not saying like you need to copy the futures but understand what is behind on the psychology And those from there you can really innovate, are really thing. It's It's amazing on that sense

spk_0:   28:05
when you're doing your analysis, the offer, you're kind of looking all the other features, that kind of game you're trying out different, I guess, kind of categorise or quantify games in interest into systems. When you see lots of changes in the kind of features people doing, or because everyone has access to kind of the same kind of process, is it? We're kind of seeing actually kind of more more games using the same store features that's

spk_1:   28:27
really really really good question, and I think I'm just coming back to. But Albert mention, which is I think is really, really important that mixing, mixing genres, mixing features Highbridge, Iris that is something that is clearly kind of increasing, popular in more bus well, on DH, I think also what Albert mentioned that innovation and that kind of many, many game developers. I think we want to be the 1st 1 to do this so that we want to come up with a whole new feature in Game Refinery. We currently crack over 220 different game mechanics and features. So a lot of features on DH there are not too many occasions that we have seen a game that is some something completely new, like, completely actually pocket mongo. What's that one thing? I remember that the air location based thing. He was completely new. If you think about things like last Royal, for example, many say that Israel was a new kind of game, totally did so many new things, but actually what they did, they mixed and matched all things that are things that have already been proven, assess working ideas and then just kind of created a new way, a new framework and then a new combination off those teachers to make it really fit on. I think that is the that is gonna go to remember, but spending hours and hours and millions of dollars to create something told the new runs a risk like that Albert touch that. Are you sure that people actually like it or replace wanted? But good way off? Doing something new and innovative, as in any any arts industry, for example, in literature movies is that they kind of ingredients that have already been proven successful, but then implement them in a new ways. Makes them, like Albert Chest mixed in with the new ways. Create new hybrids, create some new gonna waste for the gamers to see the old features and the game mechanics and get new kind of enjoyment and a lot of them. So I think that's that's the way forward. And that's something that we already are seeing in some kind of rising jobless like Idol RPG games that still small in in in in in West. But it's pretty pretty sex free China, meaning that RPG games off mid core, got a genre mixed with idle games off Casual a region on DH. There are a couple of other examples well, but I think that's that's something really characteristic all chief. More but a game.

spk_0:   30:59
So come the end of our first podcast, we've covered a lot of ground. I guess it's always good Teo End with a bit of excitement. So to finish up, shall we kind of took a little bit about what's exciting about the industry, about any anything, any trend, any, any games that you're excited about

spk_2:   31:14
it. I mean, there are some games that have been launched in the market. I'm positively surprised, for example, so far that the Council on a typical console PC games have been able to make a on the on the mobile on that. That's that's really amazing. Really surprising. Amazing, because it was said always. No, that's it. That's a premium game. Can you translate it? Andi Yeah, just just I'm not gonna mention in particularly name, but but that's nice. That's nice. And that's refreshing. I said they did bring something new. Also, some kind of games I think we're gonna see, and I'm really looking forward to realise your mechanic smell coming from hyper casual that people really like mixing with some other methods that can like entry into some kind of casual games from some, some ground in the middle That can be really addictive and fun, because I really want to have fun one for playing games. So I'm or looking forward to this kind of like, you know, innovations from big, big titles coming from from from the company's on the consul in pieces. I'm trying to move here because it's proven. As I said, There's nothing written in stone in fifth place when I was, like, really to believe, Like escape. These ideas are like, No, this is not gonna work here, Andi and that sometimes you don't need a dame development off three years to launch a successful game. I think that's proven in the market right now, and they're gonna be more copies coming off games that have hyper casual collapse with some meta's mix it and blended in a right way. But the track people from both sides and are fun And if the dimension yeah, that's that's That's how I see it. Just as a side note, for example, as ideology that you are mentioning before it's clear. Right? Because if you would stay in the bath refugees, people think about RPG, what is it usually are like very dense games where you manage a lot of stuff. A lot of starts. Andrabi Gene has been like changing this. No idol is like going fast. You're not like taking care that much about that kind of, you know, the progress is automatic. Well, this typical Arpege is from majors is like, yeah, you invest a lot of time in there like super dense and hard core. So just mixing, you know, it really can exist is like a combining things from both sides. I would say from more than casual on Dakara. I'm looking forward to see more games on that sense.

spk_0:   33:33
Joe. What are you excited about?

spk_1:   33:35
Yeah, I think I'm looking forward to 2020. But several things like Albert. So looking forward, especially on the couple of Big PC PC, is coming to more. But also Lefteris. So of course, the call of duty or something. I enjoyed myself a lot. I know. I hope that this year are the next year way will see the Diablo Mobile. I mean, I've been playing the off 12 and train in PC, and I wasn't I I'm optimistic about that. But then they hope, hopefully going to large, so excited to see that if it comes out League of Legends off course, coming to my bar might be a really big thing. And that kind of takes me to y 11 thing that I'm excited about because more about so that multiplayer online battle arena genre has been really silent. All kind of stagnated in the West myself. I really like that guy. Got games, So I know that the model superb War is coming. It's already in in kind of a closed beat, Arkansas flushed face. Andi probably gonna see leak off legends Wild briefed as well. So it remains to be seen. And what I'm excited about is to see if the more by John Wright will see some suckers in West as well. Because, of course, and enjoying it, we have their case, and there are a lot of moments moments in our picture game, so it's a big thing in there, but we are yet to see any any weak success in the West. So Let's see if 2026 to hear of marbles.

spk_0:   35:05
Good. Excellent party to look forward to. And, of course, lots of Ah, lot of things to cover in our next podcast. So this is the end of our of our first mobile game developers Playbook Podcast. Thank you very much. Thank you. Thank you, Albert. Thanks for the listeners for listening. I hope you've enjoyed it. Obviously, we hope you come back. So So every month we're gonna be talking about what's going on in the world of mobile games and drilling down into what's working from the designer's point of view. So please dio subscribe to us on your podcast supply off choice. But just to say John Doe thank very much for listening. I hope you come back and listen to us again. Welcome to the game playbook. Thiss podcast is brought to you in association with game refinery. Join us as we uncover the latest friends in mobile game design