Embark on a real estate adventure with the formidable Carrie Copenhaver as we explore the rich tapestry of her journey from a single home in 2006 to a staggering portfolio of roughly 20 properties boasting 32 doors. Through laughter and a shared appreciation for a finely mixed old-fashioned, Carrie unravels the secrets behind her success, including her family's integral role and her seamless shift from a scarcity to an abundance mindset. Discover how she juggles an astonishing 17 rehabs while continuously seeking innovative investment strategies that push the boundaries of the industry.
Venture deeper into the world of 'subject to' agreements and owner financing with us, as Carrie peels back the layers of these lesser-known but incredibly potent tactics. She demystifies how these creative deals can bypass traditional financing roadblocks, offering mutual benefits to both buyers and sellers.
As we navigate the murky waters of antitrust lawsuits shaking the foundations of real estate, grasp the urgency for professionals to stay informed and learn how to adapt to evolving business practices and regulations.
In the ever-shifting landscape of the market, the discussion pivots to the future of buyer broker agreements, with a special focus on the unique challenges faced by VA loan users. Delve into the complexities of seller-paid commissions, conventional loan limits, and how these could reshape the fabric of real estate transactions.
We wrap up this enlightening dialogue by championing the immeasurable value agents add to the buying and selling process, stressing the importance of advertising, negotiation skills, and a service-first approach as we stride into 2024. Tune in for a wealth of knowledge, a dash of humor, and perhaps, the inspiration to craft your own success story in the vast world of real estate.
Embark on a real estate adventure with the formidable Carrie Copenhaver as we explore the rich tapestry of her journey from a single home in 2006 to a staggering portfolio of roughly 20 properties boasting 32 doors. Through laughter and a shared appreciation for a finely mixed old-fashioned, Carrie unravels the secrets behind her success, including her family's integral role and her seamless shift from a scarcity to an abundance mindset. Discover how she juggles an astonishing 17 rehabs while continuously seeking innovative investment strategies that push the boundaries of the industry.
Venture deeper into the world of 'subject to' agreements and owner financing with us, as Carrie peels back the layers of these lesser-known but incredibly potent tactics. She demystifies how these creative deals can bypass traditional financing roadblocks, offering mutual benefits to both buyers and sellers.
As we navigate the murky waters of antitrust lawsuits shaking the foundations of real estate, grasp the urgency for professionals to stay informed and learn how to adapt to evolving business practices and regulations.
In the ever-shifting landscape of the market, the discussion pivots to the future of buyer broker agreements, with a special focus on the unique challenges faced by VA loan users. Delve into the complexities of seller-paid commissions, conventional loan limits, and how these could reshape the fabric of real estate transactions.
We wrap up this enlightening dialogue by championing the immeasurable value agents add to the buying and selling process, stressing the importance of advertising, negotiation skills, and a service-first approach as we stride into 2024. Tune in for a wealth of knowledge, a dash of humor, and perhaps, the inspiration to craft your own success story in the vast world of real estate.
Hey guys, welcome to real estate happens first podcast of 2024. I am so excited I have a very special guest here today and for all of you that follow me, you know real estate happens is anything and everything real estate and for the last, probably since September, is timeframe. I've been involved with this person doing some things and it's just been amazing. Carrie Copenhaver, welcome to the show.
Speaker 2:Thank you. Thank you so much. We've had a. We've had a great time. It's very and it's funny because our our paths have orbited each other for a number of years and it just it makes me laugh when I've known somebody for so long and then we just kind of collide and get the opportunity to work together at such a higher level. So it's been awesome.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's been an absolutely great time. So let's start off real quick with a little bit of background about you. How long have you been in real estate, when did you get started and when you started in real estate and have a very specific reason for the question I'm getting ready to ask. I'd like to know how many properties you owned the day you got your real estate license, and when was that?
Speaker 2:Okay, so the abbreviated version of the story right. I got my license in 2006 and apparently we were having a recession, but I wasn't participating because we were very hungry and I needed to make some money. So, yeah, I got my license in 2006. Only owned my personal residence at that point in time and that was it, and so it's been an amazing journey. A lot of people don't know I've had my license that long, but really the first part of my career was dedicated to my kids and raising them, and so I was doing some volume, but it wasn't anything spectacular. But the day my youngest one graduated from high school I was like game on, let's go.
Speaker 1:When was that?
Speaker 2:Well, that would be 2016, 2017.
Speaker 1:Okay, so let's talk about 2016. How many properties did you own in 2016?
Speaker 2:Maybe one or two.
Speaker 1:Okay, now here's the really fun question, and I asked these questions because I want to set the stage for everybody out there that doesn't know Kerry to understand what an absolute powerhouse she is. How many properties do you own right now?
Speaker 2:We have. We have 32 doors, roughly 20 properties.
Speaker 1:And how many properties are you currently in the process of rehab?
Speaker 2:God, we've got like 17 that we're working on right now.
Speaker 1:Guys, those numbers are insane. And this is not this big, huge, giant operation. This is Kerry and her family and it's just amazing. Her husband, mike, is a great guy. If you know a follower on social media you'll know him as the Silver Fox. And then she has her kids that are involved in this. So it's just an amazing time. Kerry always start out the show, introduce the guest, and then we got to have a little discussion here On a scale of one to 10, I make old-fashioned. Everybody knows you cannot be on this show if you don't drink an old-fashioned with me, unless maybe you have a propensity for not doing well with alcohol. Then we don't force that issue. But you got to give me a rating scale of one to 10. Where would you put that old-fashioned?
Speaker 2:I'll give you a good eight and a half. It needs a good orange rind in there.
Speaker 1:Okay. So you know I like that and you know I appreciate that that's still a strong score. I would, for some reason today I'm using a horse soldier I would probably give myself like a 7.3. I'm not going to go real high, but I hear you're on the orange rind. Here's my thing. Keeping fresh oranges all the time is painful, especially here at work. Yes, I drink at work, right, but to do that is very painful. But I did find, and you'll notice, there's a little bit of orange flavor in there. It's because I use orange bitters and I use Augusteer's bitters, like you have to for this, but I use some orange bitters. So it kind of helps, kind of kind of take up with that.
Speaker 2:It's actually very good. Have you tried the? You've tried. You've tried that Waterman's orange liqueur.
Speaker 1:Yes, and it was horrible, absolutely it was horrible. So a little background here. Kerry gives me this great president's Waterman's orange liqueur from our local Orange Crush people and I'm like, oh well, you know, an old fashioned has orange flavors to it, so let me put some orange liqueur on that. Yeah, no, I wanted to pour that out. So it just just the essence of what it needed to be wasn't there. So let's get back to what we're really here for is just talking about a little bit more about real estate.
Speaker 1:So I have been doing this for about 20 years and I've really kind of stayed in my lane.
Speaker 1:I've worked with some investors. I worked with one investor that you know flipped probably about 20 properties, but he was very tight, lipped about what he was doing absolute, coming from a place of scarcity and not a place of abundance which we have talked about. So although I was involved and kind of saw at the 10,000 foot level what was going on, you know you really kind of brought that down to the 10 foot level for me to really show me the inside and the backend of all these workings and all of these things and all the creativity that can be done with real estate. And I wanna just have a discussion, just kind of hear your thoughts on. You know all these agents out here today. They look at rain, they think that's where all the business is done and it's just not. And just so, just kind of expound a little bit for me, a little bit on where you find joy in real estate, with the creativity of the things you're able to do with subject to's and owner financing and things of that nature.
Speaker 2:Well, solid point. So I don't even know if half the business is done on rain. To be honest with you, I will tell you I had whatever. I think I bought 12 houses in November. None of those were on rain.
Speaker 1:Right, exactly.
Speaker 2:None of them were recorded on rain either, and I don't record them on rain because I don't want you looking at like I don't wanna throw the comps off, so I'm not gonna put in a property that I bought from a distressed seller and to rain. It doesn't make sense for me to do that. Most of the time when I sell like I would say like 98% of the time when I sell it goes on rain, because that gives a solid comp for that particular area.
Speaker 1:You know it's funny, appraisers only use rain. They don't go to off market listings like they probably should sometimes. Sometimes I'll work in appraiser pretty good by pulling these off market listings, by going into the tax records and finding what they sold for. But yeah, they don't like to use them because there's not enough information there for them to decide was it a distressed seller or not.
Speaker 2:And I might get a little heat from this. But a lot of agents don't really go off rainy. There's some of them. They don't even look at the tax records of when I bought it and I would have purchased it for some do some do. And then they wanna like take my equity, like, oh well, you bought it for 140, why are you selling for 300? It's like cause I put $60,000 into it and I deserve a profit.
Speaker 1:But it drives me crazy when that's a negotiation tactic.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Right, the negotiation tactic is to find out what you paid for it and then go oh well, you should only make so much. No, what's that got, that's what you paid for. It isn't relevant. I scream that all the time, so it just drives me nuts. Let's dive into the world a little bit of subject to, and what I'd like for you to do is just, you know, let's use Ardek. You and I, we did Ardek and we bought that subject to, but there was a lot of equity there. Just run through that whole scenario of how we structured that whole thing to really benefit the owner and to make it so that it was actually beneficial to us also. So it was really a win-win.
Speaker 2:I appreciate that opportunity to bring up subject to. So this is for all the agents out there that do not know what this is. Please listen. If you don't take anything else away from this podcast, listen to this part right here, because this could benefit your seller in so many ways.
Speaker 2:Subject to is a strategic, creative way of financing and basically it's subject to the existing financing. So the property is purchased and the title changes hands, but the financing, the mortgage that's tied to the property, remains in the name of the seller. Now I know a lot of you are like now why in the world would a seller ever leave their name on a loan? But sellers are motivated for many, many different reasons. In this particular case, the seller was six months behind on, the property was gonna lose it in foreclosure and rather than it was a hefty purchase price too. So we were in the 500s for that one, and so, instead of borrowing half a million dollars and yes, kenny and I both have our own cash, but it doesn't benefit us to put our cash to work like that so we put some of our cash to work, but a lot of it we leverage using private lenders separate conversation but so we came up with the 300,000 or whatever that we needed to and then we pay at closing. She got all of her equity. We were able to. It is not an assumption but we took over the mortgage payments, brought that property current on its mortgage and then continued to make those mortgage payments until we were done with the project and then we sold it.
Speaker 2:Now I've done many subject to purchases. The last rental I just picked up two months ago, probably a month ago. I bought about a month ago. It was past client of mine. Her brother had passed away. There really wasn't a huge equity position because the house needed to be renovated. Apparently somebody did go walk through there and that they went up in the attic and stepped their foot through the attic supposedly an agent it happens right.
Speaker 2:It does, but it's not a good look. It's just not a good look. So that person didn't get that property. She called me instead and said can we do this with you? And so I bought it, subject to. I gave them $10,000 and then I just started making the mortgage payments. So there's definitely a lot of nuances to this that we don't wanna go into all the nuances of how it works, but the reality is it's legal, it's an amazing strategy and it's great for the right situation.
Speaker 1:You know it's funny. You should have mentioned that, because, after really getting educated and understanding how the subject to work, I just bought a rental property subject to, and what was interesting, by the way it came through, is that the owners were so grateful to be able to do this because, like you said, there was no equity in the property. Well, I take that back. There's probably $5,000 equity, which is no equity in essence, and I was able to buy the property. Now here's. The other problem is that it needed repairs. Right, I was able to do about $10,000 worth of repairs and those repair cost is what I actually bought the property for. They were very grateful and very relieved, because they'd already moved to another house, that they no longer had this other house as a burden that was weighing them down. So now I have that house and it's cash flowing probably $400 a month, and so that's very, very good for me and it's very, very good for them, and I still have a great relationship with them, and so, yeah, I was able to do the same thing due to your guidance. I really appreciate the opportunity to do that.
Speaker 1:Artic was very interesting in that, like you said, and this is the part that I want to stress to the agents If the agents have a client that has a property that has a mortgage and I'm looking at buying the property, if they will listen to a conversation about subject two, I can probably give them more for the property than I could with just a straight cash purchase.
Speaker 1:And everybody's like, well, how the hell can you do that? It's really simple. If I'm borrowing hard money Right to purchase this house let's just use some numbers as an example let's say it's a $200,000 first and I'm giving $250,000 for the house, right, if I've got to go out and get hard money for $250,000, that's going to cost me X. But what if I only had to get hard money for 50, which is X? And and then if they left that mortgage in place and I pay the owner, what I would have normally would have had to have paid the hard money lender anyways, they make more money by Actually working with, in cooperating, and I think that's the key takeaway there is that if they will work with people like you and I to do these things, it's a better deal in a better situation for their seller.
Speaker 2:It is there. There are some pitfalls to your point and I think I Think when people don't understand something, they automatically shut it down, and I would encourage anyone that that you know. If you don't understand something, it is great. I mean, ask, ask and you're still gonna get your commission. That's the thing, like you're still gonna get paid during the whole thing. But when we take over these, especially when they're pre foreclosure, there's so many benefits to the seller. We're reinstating the loan, we're making consistent payments for them. Then we go and pay it off and we've and we've Tremendously Change their credit score from. If you just sold it with some late payments, right, because we reinstated it, then they they do still show those late payments, but then we restored it and got it going For closure.
Speaker 2:Exactly, but it's not like it's a foreclosure, but sometimes they'll sell it before they go into foreclosure. All I'm saying is the subject to is often a much more creative and better strategy that supports the seller for the longer haul. So and it's just important that agents understand like I don't really understand that tell me that there are some pitfalls and you do have to really trust and verify.
Speaker 1:Okay and we're back. So a little bit of technical difficulty there, and that technical difficulty is me not replacing batteries when I should so. But, kerry, you were just going over the benefits to a seller of a subject to. Would you like to pick up maybe where you left off?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think we hit the benefits, but just the pitfalls. I think that if this is something that you're interested in pursuing, there are several Attorney's offices around here that manage to do sub twos, and that's Kaplan and Hanger and Jenny Cologne all the big ones, brett Thompson. So I'd highly encourage you to sit down and talk with them, because you want to vet that buyer that's going to take over the sub two, because they do have the potential To really help and or hurt, because if they don't make those payments, that is that is a problem. So vetting that end buyer makes a big difference. There are different strategies you can do. You can put a pocket deed or a deed in lieu of foreclosure in there, so should they fail to make payments, they can get the property back, and then you could dispose it another way.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and guys, we're going to hit on some you know 10,000 foot view of some things on this podcast. But this year I think me and Kerry are going to do we're gonna try to do at least for Investment seminars, just to get the word out about how to really do these things. And you know that'll be coming. I think maybe we might do something at the local library or something to get as many people in there as we can try to get some of this information out. There is a so much to that, right, but I want to talk about something else real quick and it's not something that's being talked about a lot right now. I think it had a lot of attention and not too long ago, but now it's people have kind of Forgotten about it.
Speaker 1:The big news, high-level news, is up. There's still a lot going on. That's what these national lawsuits with the NAR and With you know, a lot of your, your bigger companies that are coming down and I find it interesting. I just you know rain, you know we, a lot of people complain about rain, but you know what, in this particular situation, they have really put out some good information. Steve stories an attorney with Kaufman and yeah, and he's been advising them for 25 years and a broker package just came out with about a 17 minute video of him really explaining what this is all about and how our landscaping Escaping especially our rules and regulations in rain and how we're going to conduct business Not just us, but our nation by that is getting ready to change and this is going to be an absolute game Changer and I can't believe more people are talking about it. We just watched that video, kerry. What did you think about what he had to say?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think that was the term I used was that's a game changer. So Just to highlight some of the items that are coming up If you, if you're not familiar with why we have an antitrust lawsuit happening, I think that's something you just school yourself on very quickly. And I don't say that. I Say that because I've been in multiple conversations with people who just are not grasping what's happening and then they're saying things like I still want my three apples. If I don't get my three apples, I'm not going to show your property and I'm like that's exactly why we are where we are right now and we can't be having these conversations.
Speaker 2:So for buyers, agents and listing agents, it's just gonna be a game changer. How that compensation is coming down the pipe, what they're gonna have to negotiate for, you know, for their commission structure and I don't know, it's not a bad thing, it's just gonna be very different. So the landscape that you've been used to is gonna change and this is why I get so excited about investing right, because in our industry I See so many amazing agents who have worked so hard and for many, many years, but they really haven't leveraged their access to the public and their ability to pick up these properties to really build their portfolio and put wealth in their pocket so that when these changes come, I don't really care. I don't care, it does not. It's not gonna impact me on a big level.
Speaker 2:I don't have to work anymore and I bought my first investment property, by the way, when I was 48 years old 55 now, so just to put that in perspective for seven years now I'm you know Sounds braggadocious, but I have friends that are, you know, in their 20s, that have four times the amount of properties that I have in less amount of time. So Anything is possible and I look forward to hopefully getting the opportunity to really help people build their wealth. So when we come into these places where we start talking about how your compensation is gonna come about, you're not as freaked out about it because you have multiple strings of income Just coming in through real estate. It's a game changer.
Speaker 1:It's a game changer and being a buyer's agent is gonna be challenging you know I have said this for a while is that Real estate agents miss out on the opportunity of investing. They, they, they spend all this time, energy and effort Helping other people buy properties and buy investors for me. They don't do any of it themselves. There's so many ways. You don't have to have a ton of money to be able to do this. There's there's ways to do that, in ways to make that happen, and if anybody has any questions on how to make that, and call me, call Carrie, I'll be glad to talk to you about that.
Speaker 1:But it found interesting that the lawsuits have come around and let's just clear this up right now. This is straight from Steve story it and also I'm gonna kind of quote him a little bit. The reason these lawsuits have come around is because of unilateral Commission Compensation. And when I say unilateral commission compensation, what I'm talking about is that the listing agent has set the commission for both sides For a very long time and this has been done. I nationwide, to use his words. It's pervasive throughout the nation of how this is done. It's just how we do business and the complaint is and the complaint and said and they their words, and I quote that the National Association of realtor Schemed to set rates so that the listing agents would set it for everybody and keep everything consistent. And then you had the additional problem of MLS is only allowing. You can't put zero for the, for the compensation. And then on top of that you had NAR with their ethics and all their other rules that say things like well, you can't as a, as a buyer's agent, you can't negotiate only what's offered in the MLS, and of course it was kept there. So that's kind of where these lawsuits came from and that's kind of how that's happened.
Speaker 1:So how is all of these changes going to effect? And I think there's a tremendous number of agents in our community that doesn't even realize that the rules, the forms and the contracts have already changed. They go into effect February 12 and the impact of how this is going to be conducted in the future is a 180 degrees from how you've ever done it before. And when I say that, remember that I mentioned unilateral by one, unilateral compensation of commission. Right now we all understand that commission goes through the listing firm than a portion of that is paid to a buyer's firm. Listen to what I'm saying. It's done, it's over, that's it. That will never after February 12th, ever, ever, ever happen again. It's over, no longer 50 years of doing it this way. It's over Gone.
Speaker 2:All right. So I have a question. Hmm, if you have a listing in right now, what is that? Do we have to go back and re-sign that paperwork?
Speaker 1:as a great question. I don't know the answer to that, but let's talk about. Let's talk about how the new rules and how it's going to be done. Without going into great, great detail, here's what I will tell you. Normally you go in a listing appointment. You go okay, hey, the commission is going to be X and of X that's paid to the listing firm, we're going to share that with X. We're gonna share that witha Agent who brings a ready-willing, enabled buyer. You've heard that a thousand times. That's how we always done. No longer will it be done that way. Here's how it's done.
Speaker 1:Now, mr Cellar, I am charging X for the listing firm and that goes on one line. And then you go what do you want to pay a buyer, if anything? And then that goes on there and the seller is now directly paying the buyer. And you know, we've always been told by National Association of Realtors and everybody else that once you get into a contract, commissions you can't negotiate. Commissions are not part of the contract. Well, guess what, folks, in the new standard listing agreement or the new standard contract purchase agreement contract with rain, the buyers agent commission is in the contract, it's in the purchase agreement. So I'll give you an example. Everybody goes well, so here's why. So the appraisal comes in low. Buyers agent commission is on the table for negotiation Because it's in the contract and that's a game changer. So you better get your negotiation skills set, go ahead.
Speaker 2:Here's another example, though. So you have your VA buyer and we. We love our VA buyers around here. We love our VA buyers and they but let's be realistic Most of them don't have a lot of cash, so they're using their VA. It's no money down, the Listing is a zero dollar. So now you don't have a choice but to negotiate it, because you know your buyer client is not going to be able to pay your commission.
Speaker 1:And that is exactly what when I did this training. I did a two-hour training on Wednesday with all my agents because I want them, at a way, real estate my agents are known for knowing the contract and it's because I shove it down her throat and I want them to have the tools to be able to work in any environment that we're in. So here's the conversation that exact point came up. It is no different than negotiating their closing costs, buyer broker agreements and, by the way, there are now three new buyer broker agreements that are coming out from rain the standard agent, exclusive agent and limited service. Okay, those are coming out from rain in that those are going to be your buyer broker agreements and they talk about what the, the buyer, has to pay. The buyer brokerage, right, and I know the first thing everybody's gonna say, so let's just go ahead and go it out there.
Speaker 1:But the VA guidelines says that a buyer, a VA buyer, can't pay any kind of commission. You're absolutely correct, and that, I think, is going to change, and we have this all the time with things trickle down the mountain, right, something changes up here. Rocks fall, bigger rocks fall, and things have to change. On the end, however, can you put a VA buyer in a buyer broker agreement? Yes, you absolutely can, for whatever amount you want to put them in that for. Is it enforceable? No, can you put them in that? Yes, and what's going to be really, really important, what's extremely important, is that if you're going to negotiate a Bill that your buyer owes, they have to owe it.
Speaker 1:So all these agents that are putting agents or putting their clients in a zero buyer broker agreement, you have no grounds to negotiate from, because you're asking the seller and this is the way it has to be Just like we write okay, how do we write closing costs assistance seller to pay X amount on buyer bro on bro on buyers behalf to For closing costs, something with the whole on buyers behalf. Same thing buyer has to have a bill before you can ask someone to pay it Byer to pay sellers compensation, blah, blah, blah. But it won't matter because it's going to be in the contract. The verbiage is already there and it's already written for you. And listen, if you're at a brokerage that hasn't started going on over this yet, you need to be kicking your broker's door in and going what's going on? Because if you don't start on it now, you're gonna be behind power curve.
Speaker 2:Right on. We've been having that conversation for a minute. I mean telling people this is it's coming, it's coming, it's coming. Compensation is gonna change and it's gonna be a treeing to see. Will VA be allowed to? Can they roll it into their mortgage, you know?
Speaker 1:and then look at the mess that creates, right cuz now they're upside down in their properties and so, instead of, instead of, instead of the, the 3% of what which is the VA Fee funding fee right now. It's what are you six? Let's let's go a step further. Let's talk about Conventional loans. What's the max you can get as a buyer on a convention alone? Yeah, 2%, maybe three if there's an up-down payment or whatever, right.
Speaker 1:So now, okay, another, but, but I don't think that's gonna be an issue, cuz I think reigned did a really good job when they wrote this into the contract the way they wrote it into the contract. It's gonna be a payment directly from the seller To the agent, so it will go on. It will go on the, the Alta CD. We're gonna cash purchase a HUD, it'll go. Which would win really wouldn't matter at that point, but it will go on there as a payment from seller, from the seller to the buyer's agent. So it's not really gonna. And it's like, would you now admin fees? Right, how to add her admin fees handled. Admin fees are handled by Putting it on. Let's say there's say there's a $500 Closing cost assistant from seller to the buyer and there's a $500 admin fee. You just reduce the buyer's closing cost and then you put it over there for the, so it's really semantic thing right now. That happens all the time, but that's what's gonna happen with this. I think they wrote it correctly when they did it.
Speaker 2:All right, but let's talk about this scenario, right? So Seller's not offering any commission, they're not offering buyer broker commission, they say no on the contract. What happens?
Speaker 1:so I think this is where buyers agents have to start earning their keep, and here's what I mean by that. I'm gonna turn this question around to you. What happens when you go and you offer it doesn't matter if they're VA or not and you go, hey, my buyers cannot buy your house because they do not have the closing cost. They need to do it. What happens in that scenario? Either the seller decides, hey, I want to sell in the house, so here's the closing cost. No different with this, it's just another thing that has to be negotiated for the buyer. So what happens when they can't afford it? Well, they don't buy that house, right?
Speaker 1:And when houses, when we get to a market, we were in like 2009, 2010, where we, where houses are setting on a market for two and three and four months and not selling, sellers were doing everything under the Sun. Not only are they paying a commission, they were paying a bonus, right, and that's where it changed. They were paying buyers closing cost, the commission that was asked, and a bonus on top of that. The market is always going to set. What's going to happen here and when we have a market where Low inventory, high demand, sellers are gonna curb, stomp. Buyers are not gonna pay anything.
Speaker 1:And the buyers? Guess what? We all thought when the pandemic hit? Oh my god, nobody. And we were this unique market where we were still paying closing costs for buyers in this market when it was happening nowhere else in the country, nowhere. And all of a sudden we're like, oh my god, it's gonna crash the market because buyers don't have any money bullshit. They came up with money out of the woodwork. Money came, just showed up like it was magic right. If Buyers don't have the funds to pay the brokerage fee and their closing cost, sellers will pay it or they won't sell their house.
Speaker 2:That's it. Yeah, I mean I don't disagree with that. I think the challenge we want to do right now is there's a disparity just because of the lack of inventory, right, and so when we get into that competitive sector and I think I think the thing I'm concerned about too is that buyers are gonna Be resentful of losing a property over a commission structure. So that's gonna be intriguing to see how that kind of develops. I don't disagree with you. I mean I do feel like when we have inventory, sellers will do what they need to do to move a property, but without inventory it's gonna be really intriguing to see how many buyers are like I'm just gonna go in unrepresented and make this happen for myself. And then then that that moves us into a different conversation of what happens when technology Comes down.
Speaker 2:I haven't had this conversation with a friend not too long ago and he's the same age I am. He doesn't feel like technology is going to replace a lot of our features and I'm like I don't know that I agree with that at all. I really think that All of this is just the first phase of Moving us into a direction where I think maybe 20 years from now, if it's that long they're gonna be very few. Real estate agents, in my humble opinion, proved me wrong, but when you look at, not my kids, but my children's children which there are none yet, thank goodness. But they're gonna be so accustomed to doing everything With technology and virtual and I think processes are gonna come up to replace us. In my humble opinion, I don't. I think there will always be some agents sipping around, but I don't know that it's gonna be a forever and it's certainly not gonna be at the magnitude that we have right now.
Speaker 1:Well, when you talk about NFTs, right, bitcoin houses are being sold via NFTs and they're not going through all the craziness that we go through. I think a real estate transaction is overly complicated right now, as it is right. I mean you need a, you need a buyer who says I want to buy, who has the money and the lender backer, and you need a clear title. That's really the only, and you don't even really need a clear title. But I mean it's a good thing to have that right, but we've made it so Complicated. I think a lot of that will certainly start to get streamlined. You know, kind of as we move forward in the short term and I think you're right here I think AI and some of these other things are going to start Doing the heavy lifting on a lot of these things. But in the meantime, agents Better learn how to negotiate, and negotiation is not. Well, you paid this, so I think you should pay this. That's not negotiation. Negotiation is finding a path to where everybody gets what they need.
Speaker 2:Secondarily to that, we as agents have a responsibility to show our worth Right, and so I love there was an agent just recently that posted all this additional work she had done for her client, like, oh, they had to leave, and so we took care of x, y and z for them. We packed them up, we cleaned their house, we touched up, painted whatever, and I'm gonna get a I to do that.
Speaker 2:You are not gonna know absolutely. And so I bringing the human factor and the fact that I will go To the nines for you, like you, tell me what needs to be done. I got you, I've got it covered. Blah, blah, blah.
Speaker 2:Several years ago we had Hurricane Matthew here. I had a seller. We were two days, two days from closing, of course. She was in Windsor Oaks or Windsor Woods, whatever, and I called me at midnight and she's like I got two feet of water in my house right now. I was like, well, get to safe. Space is really it's midnight and we're in the middle of a storm, so find a safe place to go to.
Speaker 2:But Took a couple days and I got over there and I said let's pack up what salvageable. So we had to go to Newport news to get a u-haul truck, brought the u-haul truck here, anything that was salvageable we put. We put tarp out on the you know, because the ground was just mud. So we put tarp out there. We brought everything out that was salvageable. We let it dry, we threw it in the truck. I said get out. I got you. I renovated her house While she was waiting for her check to come. A shit enough equity in the property to pay me and wait for her insurance check. So that level of service I mean that's a little over the top. But you guys get where you have to really advertise what your value is to both not just your client but the sellers too, because the public perception of who we are as agents is like we're right there with lawyers and use car salesmen right now.
Speaker 1:Let's especially these lawsuits out there, right? So I have an agent. Her name is Lacey Whitaker. She's an amazing agent and she cares so deeply about her clients. You know she she's in a deal right now where the there's some repairs that need to be done on the house that, quite frankly, there's not a single Really contract out there that wants to do the work without it being closed. And you know we had a long conversation. I mean, she's spent fifteen thousand dollars out of her own pocket to make these repairs so that she's gonna get paid back at closing right, but man, that's risky, but she just cares about her clients and you're not gonna have that, like you said with AI, right it just I mean, I don't see it happening.
Speaker 2:I agree you know.
Speaker 1:So there's, you know we. It's good to be humble, it's gonna be humble, but you can be humble to your own detriment, right? If you're doing something really over the top for your clients, the world needs to know because you're one of the few and one of the greats that's out there doing that and consistently too.
Speaker 2:So, like, even if you're not going above and beyond, like how do I state this? So maybe you didn't do fifteen thousand dollars worth of repairs for your client might get that, but the things that you do that humanize the transaction and and Increase the perceived value of your services is where you need to truly advertise. I saw somebody else there's another agent. She does really great with her social media and she had, like, this flyer with a checklist of like 15 things that she does for her clients. And it is things that we do. It's just things that we don't advertise, right Like, and we all know we're marriage counselors.
Speaker 2:Yes and all the things that we have to go through to take a client from point a to point b, and I think it's there is no better time than right now that you have to advertise the value that you bring so that when my seller who doesn't have I, have a seller right now and that properties get ready to go on the market here in another week or so. But she constantly over leverages herself and so she needs every penny to move forward, and she was like, oh, I don't, I don't really have to pay any, I don't have to pay the selling broker, right. And I was like well, I mean, you're, you're not wrong, that is correct comma. But that property is not going to be available to people that can't afford to pay for their agent and you want to get it moved, and you want to get it moved quickly, and you've already tried to do fizzboe and that didn't work out so well for you.
Speaker 2:So how about if we do this instead? And so I offered, you know, a certain amount of apples and a couple of oranges in there. That, I feel like, is ample compensation for the price a little higher. It's a higher price point, and so it's not going to be all the apples that people are accustomed to. But it'll be. It's worth your time to show up.
Speaker 1:You know, I think that is a great point and let me I Don't want to sound doom and gloom by that previous conversation about how everything is going to change. So let me put it all into perspective. We are not talking about New money, more money or different money. We're talking about the same money that's always kind of float around. We're just talking about who's paying it. That's what we're talking about. And If I have one piece of advice For agents moving into 2024, which I think, look, 2024 is going to be an amazing year. I really believe it's going to be just going to be just Jackhammer, crazy, right, it's going to be awesome. If you do one thing to prepare for 2024 take a class in negotiation, learn how to negotiate, learn how to create a win-win, learn how to make it so that everybody Flourishes in the deal. That'd be my advice. What advice do you have before we close out our podcast today for agents for 2024? All right.
Speaker 2:Still circling back around to and I've said this many times, anybody who knows me knows my entire sales strategy is I walk in and I go. What do you need and how can I help you get there?
Speaker 1:It's exactly what you said to me in the driveway when we talked about Arctic. I mean almost verbatim what do you need and how do I help you get there?
Speaker 2:And so to your point now. I'm not a big fan of overcoming objections and all the things that come with sales strategy. I think that Truthfully honest, honestly and authentically, you need to come to the table and say how can I be of service to you? And then, being in a space of servitude and Reminding the client of the value that you bring and not just the value that you bring, but the value of the selling broker too. You have to sell them and remind them of the value of this other broker that's coming to the table, because we know what I mean.
Speaker 2:I've been a buyer agent many, many, many, many, many times and Hours upon hours. I'm with somebody of two years. I fired myself from them multiple times. They keep coming back. I'm like, if I give them it's oldie, they get two years, like I'm at it. It's a lead loss for me right now. So so I think just shift who you are in this space and stop chasing money and ask yourself what value are you bringing to the table? Because money follows value, guys, if you want to get a hold, of me.
Speaker 1:You can reach me at Kenny at teamlethnercom. You can call me at 757-724-8657. Carrie, if they want to get a hold of you, if they've got questions, how can they reach you?
Speaker 2:757-615-1764 you can Facebook me. I'm not as great at Instagram, but I'm really good on Facebook. Message me, call me, text me. I'm very easy to find and more than happy to Help people, you know. Just take it to another level. Carrie is a lot has the same philosophy I do Open book.
Speaker 1:If you've got a question, I've got an answer. No rice bowling here, so I may not be the right answer, and if I don't have it, I'll certainly go and try to find it for you. So, carrie, thank you so much for being on the show today. We really appreciate you having sorry about the technical difficulties. Guys, don't forget to follow us on. Real estate happens on Facebook. We have our own page two at bus sprout dot. I don't know, it's bus sprout. Real estate happen. I want Spotify and iArt. Just grab us out there. We're out there. Share us with all your friends. We'll catch you next week. We'll have some great good, more content for you. Talk to you soon.