Master My Garden Podcast
Master My Garden Podcast
EP197- Listener Question Answered, "Are the trees I bought suitable for my small garden"?
Ever wondered how to pick the perfect small trees for your small garden? Well, you're in for a treat! We help a listener, Susie, navigate the complexities of choosing the best plants for her cottage garden. Touching on two potential picks - the beautiful John Downey crab apple tree and the unique Cornus Controversa variagata (the wedding cake tree), we explore how to gauge their potential growth sizes and manage their development effectively. If you've ever been in Susie's shoes, struggling with conflicting information, then this episode is your guide to creating a thriving, small garden, filled with the most fitting plants.
We don't stop there! The conversation continues as we delve into the art of creating a stunning cottage garden. We discuss various tree options and the ideal timing for pruning, to ensure your garden is always at its best. We also touch on the creation of raised beds, a fantastic way to showcase your blooms, and how to plan your garden around the sun's path. The size and density of trees are also crucial considerations - we'll guide you in preventing any loss of precious light to your home. Join us to learn how to create a garden that not only flourishes but harmonises with your living space. Whether you're a gardening novice or an expert with a green thumb, we're sure you'll glean something valuable from this episode.
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Until next week
Happy gardening
John
If there is any topic you would like covered in future episodes, please let me know.
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Until next week
Happy gardening
John
How's it going everybody, and welcome to episode 197 of Master my Garden podcast. Now, this week's episode, I'm covering a listener's question again and it's a question I got on Instagram. So a new listener to podcast who has the renovating a small cottage and they're inquiring about small trees for a small garden and the reason they're asking is that basically the cottage runs along the side of a road and I suppose the garden at the front I suppose all cottages you know of that time would have had a small garden at the front. That would have been, you remember, that cottage style and always looked really good. But this one has been paved over and now Susie, who is the new owner of the house, wants to, I suppose, renovate this and create a garden there and she started by getting some trees that were, you know, advised to her to be suitable for small gardens and since she's got the two trees, she's kind of been told these are not suitable for the garden and she's saying that there's kind of conflicting I suppose conflicting points of view and conflicting information out there and she's a bit confused. And she has two lovely trees, so she has a John Downey crab apple tree, which is a beautiful tree, and she also has a Corners Contraversa varigatas, which is basically the wedding cake tree, and she now has these two trees which I suppose she envisaged being in the garden and from looking at it and a bit of research and talking to people, she's now being told they're not suitable for the front To set the scene.
Speaker 1:The area from the front wall of the house to the wall at the side of the road is about five meters, a little over five meters in depth, and the garden runs the full length of the cottage, plus it runs the length of a shed. So it's, you know, it's a long front garden but it's only five meters deep, so to speak, and I suppose that's where the challenge is. It's not a huge area but it's still big enough. And I suppose to get back to the specifics of this question first. So the two trees that you've chosen and I see now why you're saying there's conflicting information out there, because I always go the first place. I always go when I want to be sort of sure on a plant. You know the sizing wise and all the rest of it is. I go to the NHS in Cyclopedia of Gardening and it's a book with hundreds of thousands of plants in it and it kind of gives the ends and outs of it. But, funny enough, the wedding cake tree, which I'm very familiar with because I planted one up in my parents front garden years ago. Now it's planted 20 years and at the moment it probably stands, I would say, at a maximum maximum, maybe four and a half meters tall, maximum maybe five, so not not overly huge, and in width it's probably three, three and a half. So that tree is, you know, manageable and certainly if you had that in your, in your garden, so it would be more than happy with that size. However, when you look up that book, in the RHS in Cyclopedia it says max height, max spread, 15 meters, and notice it max, and I'll explain that a little bit in a minute.
Speaker 1:Then, when you look on Google and you look at maybe the first three or four nurseries that come up, some of them have the 15 meters by 15, which is, you know, generally speaking, rhs in Cyclopedia of Plants, where a lot of people will take this information from or the labels that the nurseries are using will have. The information will have been taken from that book or that reference point. But some of them say 15 by 15. And then there's another one that says four by three or four by five, if you get the exact size. Then there's another one with very, very different sizings and another one with very different sizes. And this is all on page one of Google. So now I see where Suzie's confusion comes in and why she might be questioning her decision here at this point in time.
Speaker 1:And then the other tree, the John Downey apple tree, that potentially can go and again it has it can go to a height of 8 to 12 meters. Even within that there's quite a bit of variance, and it can do have a spread of 4 to 12 or 48. So again, that's if that reaches its maximum potential of 8 meters wide, 12 meters high. That's certainly not a small tree and I can see why these things might be misleading. So there's a few things. Firstly and this is not specifically in relation to answer this question, generally speaking, 8 to 12 as the height. That is the absolute maximum that it could reach in the fullest of its potential. And nine times out of 10, they don't get anywhere near that. And this is plants in general, now, not specifically talking about the John Downey here. So plants in general, what they'll give is the maximum, if everything is optimum, if everything is, and it's never touched, it's never pruned and it has no competition and it's able to do its own thing.
Speaker 1:These are the max heights, the max width that they were grotted in their lifespan. So that's an interesting point and it's a useful point to know, because when you read 15 by 15 for the wedding cake tree, there's no way you're putting it in that front garden. However, in that front garden it's probably never going to reach that for a couple of reasons. Number one, if you're choosing something for a small garden, you're always better to choose something that you are able to, I suppose, prune a little or control a little yourself, so that when it gets to the desired height or the max height that you wanted to get to, that you're able to stop that and you're able to control it a little bit. Also, those max heights are when you let a plant completely do its own thing with no competition. But in a small front garden like this, or in a small garden in general, you are going to, generally speaking, put other plants around it. You're going to give it a bit of competition. There's going to be walls around it. There's going to be restrictions per se on that plant, so it's not going to be able to reach its maximum anyway. So you can come back down from that 15 by 15, chances are it's not going to hit that.
Speaker 1:Now I have seen. As I say, the one in my mam's garden is not big. It's certainly perfect for a front garden like what Susie's inquiring about. However, I have seen them go in the center of the lawn as a specimen tree. You know, big, but not 15 by 15 at the same time. So again, I'm not going to question it, because who am I to question the RHS book? But 15 by 15, it would be like that is a big tree, that is a seriously big tree and I'd like to see one at that size to see. You know, is it actually possible? Because I certainly have never seen it. Maybe some of you guys have and you might be able to say where it is or whatever, but it'd be interesting to see if there is one going to that size.
Speaker 1:All of that has been a little bit of a rambling, I suppose, and hasn't specifically answered Susie's question. But the first thing is when you're choosing trees, shrubs for a small garden and if you're worried that the maximum size that's written in these books or on the labels is going to be too big for your space, then the question you need to be asking is can I control this plant a little bit? Can I prune it a little bit, can I shape it a little bit so that I can stop it when it gets to what I feel to be the maximum height that I want? And I think that's a hugely important point. Now, both of these trees that Susie has chosen are going to be suitable for a little bit of light pruning. So the other thing is that when Susie plants in here, she's not just planting in these trees and nothing else. She is planting in with other shrubs and perennials and so on. So they're going to have competition. They're not just going to be let do their own thing. So I think Susie are going to be perfectly fine with both of these, and they will take light pruning, and so you'll be able to, I suppose, keep them to the maximum height that you want them to go to. So you already have these trees. It would be a shame not to put them into your garden. But I do see now where the conflicting information comes from, because, as I say, when I looked with number one, I was very surprised to see that 15 by 15 was the maximum size of the wooden cake tree, because I couldn't have envisaged it would ever go to that size. Just knowing the few that I've planted over the years, I've never seen them go to that size. But now when I look at it, those trees potentially can go to that. So you need to be able to control them a bit. So that brings me to a quick lesson. Keep those two trees now that you have them, and make them work into your garden.
Speaker 1:The wedding cake tree can take a little bit of pruning, as I said, and best time to do that is probably springtime, you know, just before the leaves start to bust out. But the John Downy apple tree is going to be one to watch for. So with moss crabs you will get a period of interest and different periods of interest throughout the year. So you get the early season flower, you get the fruit later on in the year, you get leaf color and so by pruning you can miss out on some of those. So just be careful. I would do my pruning on the John Downy tree. I would do that probably in late winter. So that's going to mean that you're. You know all of the leaf, color fruit, all of that is going to be gone off and you're going to do it before the leaf opens, before the flower comes, and you know that would mean that you'll have least interference to these really nice periods of interest that you're going to get from that tree. You're not going to do that initially.
Speaker 1:Obviously you're going to get planted in as it stands at the moment, this whole front garden which runs, as I said, a length of a cottage plus sort of a lean to shed off the end of the house, as was common enough on a lot of cottages from that era, and along the front, the whole way along the front. This five meter section is completely paved at the moment. What Susie and her husband are going to do is take out all of that paving and create a garden in there. And I suppose we can all picture these really amazing little cottage gardens you know, dotted around Ireland. They had those little small, as I say, five meter from the house to the road gardens and they were typically alive with those cottage colors, those cottage flowers, and the potential for Susie here is huge. So she's probably got to do it step by step.
Speaker 1:But what I would be doing is I would be on either end of this paved area at the moment. I would be creating a raised you know raised beds, you know either with natural stone or whatever curve raves, beds, or curving from the house around by the end wall and back out to the wall at the road on either end. This is creating a curve on either end. That raising of the raised bed, you know, rising the area up, will form as a sort of a staging on either end of the garden and by doing that you can make, you know, plants that are relatively small seem a little bit bigger, and so you're staging them, you're setting them up a little bit. So from the road, you know, some of these are going to peep up over the wall and you're talking about things like tall perennials, taller perennials, taller flowers and things like that, and from the house you're going to obviously see those as well.
Speaker 1:The other consideration along the front is that you have, I think, tree windows at the house and a large porch area and you certainly don't want to be blocking any light from that. So anywhere you're putting your tree needs to be set quite a bit back from those windows or, if possible, somewhere where it's kind of centered between the windows. Although in this situation you have two trees, I would be going one on either end for these and that's going to avoid, you know, closing in any light, getting into the house or whatever. The front area gets sun all day, so it's going to have sun from morning until late evening, so in terms of aspect it's perfect. Other kind of good trees for, you know, really smaller, that is something like an acer palm atom. I would definitely be looking at one of those because it is a kind of a wow tree at the front. The wedding cake tree will do that as well. The John Downey is going to give you loads of interest throughout the year. But an acer palm atom would be a real wow tree and potentially one that you could put in a bed in the center down the road after you develop it. So that's a good one and you can get them that will grow, you know, no more than sort of three meters, maybe four meters.
Speaker 1:Interesting to watch out for, as you're looking at sort of max sizes, is certain trees might have a max size of three meters by four meters, but they can be quite bulky and dense and dominant and nothing else. You know, you can't see through it. It feels like a big block where something that's elegant, like an Acerpal matum or even the wedding cake tree, for example, it's quite, it's layered. You can see through it. It doesn't feel as bulky, it doesn't feel as, I suppose, intrusive, or it doesn't block the light, doesn't block the space or close out the view the way others would. You can see through it. It's a bit more airy, and that's another consideration when you're looking at max sizes.
Speaker 1:If something is, I suppose, less dense, then it might be okay to go bigger with that, because it doesn't feel as if it's going to be a big block. It's as if it's creating a block, the same way as something you know, like a heavy dense conifer, for example, and then I suppose there's other conifers, like there's the shami syphorus, a Columbia one. It grows 10 meters tall and meter wide, and it's tall, it's elegant, it is a block that's only a meter wide and then it gives you the height. I wouldn't put it in this garden, but it's a big sort of a tall tree. But because it's only a meter wide at its maximum, it's never as invasive and again, that's suitable for this garden. But if you're going for you know other gardens, you can use more columnar type conifers that are not going to block out the view the way somebody other ones would. And so this garden. I suppose the two trees you have are suitable.
Speaker 1:If you were standing back and thinking about it and you're picking them from scratch, maybe the John Downey you might put in, but still I think they're going to be perfect for there. So you have to go on either end and then maybe down the line get an Acer palmatum, the septum, for the center, and now you have three kind of big-ish pieces that are going to be, you know, spectacles in the garden, center, point in the garden and so on. And then your list of plants is to be honest, would you end this? I would be doing the sort of staging where you're able to rise up on either end, and that'll sort of make the garden feel a little bit bigger. It'll make it easier for you staging your plants. You'll have them up on a raised bed, maybe a foot or 18 inches.
Speaker 1:At the very back you'll have your really tall perennials If you're not into windy of an area the likes of you know, delphinium's, penstemon's, things like that, which are typical of what you'd see in old cottage gardens. Then, through the center of the bed you might put in some evergreen type plants and these are going to, I suppose, give you that continuity, because you don't want a garden that, when all of the perennials are gone, that you don't have anything there. So simple things like the spotted laurel, the boxes, the boxes, balls, boxes, cones, maybe a bale laurel Again, a bale laurel will grow huge if you let it, but it will take really hard brooding so you can let that go to the maximum size that you wanted to go to and keep it at that. You can even get things like, you know, the cone shaped ones or the lollipop shaped ones, and now you're adding a little bit of evergreen through these beds. Then, towards the front, you can go for so many different perennials. You know your lupins, which are again are typical of these style gardens Geraniums if you're going for the raised beds, you might get the likes of geranium and Thompson geranium, rosand that roll over the front of your raised wall and again, typical of those type, you know those type of cottage gardens. Fox gloves. You know lots of the, I suppose, the alpine plants, the bellis, the sexy fresh, all the doors towards the front spilling out over the. You know, the natural stone, natural stone wall, and all suitable for this cottage style that you may have.
Speaker 1:Another way of bringing some height through those beds is using things like like, say, a climatus and having a noblus. Have it growing on a noblus and that'll give you a little bit of feature and it'll also give you that color from the flower. And by mixing those you can, I suppose, create. I suppose create different stagings and different flowers throughout the year. Then I suppose what you're looking for and it wouldn't have been as common in old style cottage gardens, but you're looking for things to give you flowering through the winter and so on, things like the heliborges, for example. Adding heliborges in is going to give you color at that time of the year.
Speaker 1:You're going to utilize, maybe, bulbs, and so, with this garden, the fact that you have sun all year round, that you're starting with a blank canvas, now that you can, you still have the. You know, because you're starting with a blank canvas, you have the ability to do these raised beds on either ends and possibly in the middle. I would again look at creating beds and then possibly running a small tin pot around this garden, so it's all paving at the moment, but I would consider running a small pot around it that you can actually, you know, go on a little journey through this garden eventually as it develops, and the potential is endless. Here really is. But I do understand the, I suppose, confusion when you get two trees and you have your plans and you have them picked for where you're going to go, and then you start listening to people or doing a little bit of Google search and then you find, oh my God, these are not really suitable for what I had in mind. But I always find that maximum size that potentially these trees can go to is with it's, with everything being perfect, I would say nine times out of 10, you can come back from that figure anyway, you know, for the max, because not everyone has absolute perfect conditions, there is going to be some restrictions and then use pruning to keep it to the max size that you want. And I suppose that works if the you know the plants or the trees or the shrubs that you've chosen are suitable for pruning. So just be sure on that as well. If they are suitable for pruning, then you'd be able to keep them to the size that you want for your garden and not the maximum potential size that they can go to, and I think that's an important point. So, yeah, look, there's lots to consider there.
Speaker 1:I do think that those trees are suitable for your garden. Susie, you have amazing opportunities to make this space, you know, into a beautiful cottage style garden. There's, as I say, so much potential there. There's pavers already there so they can farm your little pets that lead through different areas later on. Just watch that you don't get anything too tall to block out the sunlight. Draw your eye out towards the garden, but don't block off the sunlight. And yeah, I think you're off to a winter there and choosing lots of cottage style plants, mixing through some evergreens so that you're not having just, I suppose, disbursed the flower through the spring and summer and into early autumn, and then you're looking at a drab area for the wintertime. Add some winter color, add some plants with autumn interests, that type of thing, and that will mean that all year round this can look like a spectacular garden. The setting, because it's getting sun all day, means that you're probably going to be able to grow most things there. So, yeah, it's a blank canvas I wouldn't be overly worried about your plants you've chosen. I think they will work fine. I would put both of them to the outer side of the raised beds as in heading towards the road, just from the point of view of allowing them to develop and not taking any sunlight from the house. Also, when you're inside looking out you'll see them a bit better as opposed to when they're tucked in close to the house. But I think the choice you have is fine.
Speaker 1:Another interesting thing that I noticed on that Google search the other day is that there's an article talking about the wedding cake tree and the potential damage that the roots can cause. I have never seen this to be the case In terms of this tree. I don't give any worries there. I can understand why. You know you get this bit of confusion or you start to doubt why you chose a tree in the first place when you start reading it up about it. Generally speaking, the people where you're buying your trees should be able to give you this good advice. But when you get online you can see a lot of copied stuff and you don't always know if it's 100% accurate. As I said, the RHS book here does not mention in any way, which I find to be kind of the Bible of plants. It doesn't mention in any way root damage, so I wouldn't be worried about that part of it, but it was an interesting thing that popped up the other day when I was looking. So I hope that answers your question.
Speaker 1:The two trees you have chosen are perfect. If you're looking for some other nice ones acerpatum dissectum, that kind of gives you three trees in front of this garden which is five meters deep along the whole length of the cottage, and then after that a lot of cottage style plants, you know even some nice roses, things like that. Cottage style planting perennials, some evergreen plants too, I suppose make sure that you have this greenery in the autumn time, and other than that it's a blank canvas and I'm really looking forward to seeing what you do with it over the next couple of years. So I hope that answers your question. Next week's episode is actually another listener's question with a slightly different topic, along the same lines, with a slightly different topic and then with some other guest interviews coming up in the next couple of weeks, some really interesting ones. So that's been this week's episode. Thanks for listening. Until next time, happy gardening.