Master My Garden Podcast
Master My Garden Podcast
-EP249 Caitriona & Robert From Cullen Nurseries Chat Hedges, Trees & All Things Bareroot Ahead Of A Busy Planting Season In The Garden.
Join us as we explore the art of bare root planting alongside experts Caitriona and Robert from Cullen Nurseries in Carlow. This episode promises to enrich your understanding of this cost-effective gardening method, perfect for large-scale projects. Katrina and Robert share their journey through the ever-evolving trends of the nursery industry—from the Leylandii craze of the 1980s to today’s focus on native and sustainable species. Gain insights into the patience and expertise required to grow plants destined for sale years down the line.
Get ready to transform your landscape with a splash of evergreen elegance. We delve into the growing popularity of hedge options like beech, laurel, and Red Robin, examining the art of trimming techniques that keep your hedges lush nearly all year round. Listen as we ponder the aesthetics of mixed hedging and the balance between uniformity and diversity in planting. The conversation delves into the demand for Portuguese laurel and the vibrant Photinia Carre Rouge, appreciated for their beauty and low maintenance.
As we round off, we shift focus to sustainable practices in gardening and nursery management—an area gaining momentum as farmers and gardeners alike embrace biodiversity. We discuss how strategic planting not only enhances biodiversity but also nurtures the ecosystem, helping reduce pesticide reliance. This episode is your guide to hedges and hedges and how these will help you making impactful changes in your gardening habits while contributing to environmental conservation.
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Until next week
Happy gardening
John
how's it going, everybody, and welcome to episode 249 of master my garden podcasts, as we head for the end of october.
Speaker 1:Now we're going to look at the subject of bare root planting with the, you know, bare root season coming up, and I'm delighted to be joined this week by Katrina and Robert for Cullum Nurseries in Cardle, and we're going to chat about all things bare root.
Speaker 1:As we know, bare root season is a great time of year to plant trees, shrubs, hedging roses and so on, and it's the time of year where people consider, you know, what sort of hedges they're going to put in, what kind of trees we're going to put in, and you know, you think about it a lot at this time of the year and it is the best time of the year if you're doing a long run of hedges. Particularly, it's the most economical way of doing big runs of hedging. Obviously, you can plant hedges at all times of the year, but this is the time where a lot of sort of long runs and and big hedging jobs and planting jobs get done. So I'm delighted to be joined by katrina and robert for cullen nurseries, and cullen nurseries are a family business based in carlo and uh, yeah, to tell us all about beirut and what they do down there. As I say, katrina and robert, you're very, very welcome to master my garden podcast thanks, john, thanks thanks for having us.
Speaker 2:Thank you.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so Katrina it's a and Robert it's a family nursery. You're, you're based down in Hackettstown in Cardo and and Robert, I believe you're. You're the guy that got it going. You were the originally the green fingered partner in the in the in the group. So tell us a little bit about the history of Cullen Nurseries and how it came to be. First, I suppose.
Speaker 3:It was to be honest. First of all, it probably came from my father who, probably from a very early age, started working in a nursery in Whitlow. At the time they were growing a lot of forestry trees being planted right through the country, and probably in the late 50s, early 60s, they were actually exporting at that time as well to Scotland and England. So anyway, that progressed along. When I was younger, I was hanging out no matter where I went, and he would be doing gardens and he'd be doing garden maintenance, landscape and putting in lawns, doing all that sort of thing. And, as I say from probably, probably when I was as far back as when I was able to walk, I was with him and then I done, um, I done a stint up in multifarming, the heart in the horticultural agriculture and horticultural college. Yeah, I came back then and I kind of just started up myself. We were doing landscaping, maintenance, we were growing shrubs, growing bedding plants, um, with the help of my mother and father, and um the progress from there.
Speaker 3:In 2010. Then self-natrina bought here in ballast island, hackettstown, where the nursery is today. So we bought 11 and a half acres here and it has just grown now, to be fair, and, at the start, native trees. Probably 10-15 years ago they weren't in the team, but then look at it to be fair. Now the talk is native trees and it's just got around people in their heads that they need to just keep plant native, Even though, look to be fair, a beech tree is not native, but this beech has been grown here for hundreds of years. You know, that's just one typical example of it. But look, we have progressed over time. It doesn't just happen like what we are planting today or what we are growing today. You're looking three years down the line for a plant that's saleable to a person.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it takes time. If you're at it since the you know involved in it for that length of time, you must have seen some transition from you know back in those early days when because gardening really kicked off here in the I suppose the 80s didn't it. Prior to that it was. It was a little bit here and there but it wasn't much. It was really at that stage that gardening started to to kick off.
Speaker 3:Gardening was probably Leylandis in the 80s, wasn't it? Yeah everyone at that time. Leilandis, we grew, leilandis, we grew hundreds of thousands, and you'd nearly be ashamed to say that now yeah and most of them now are being actually cut out. But at that time all people wanted was get the Leilandihedge, no matter what site they had. Get the Leilandihedge in, get it up.
Speaker 1:And that that was it, you know now I remember myself and I would have done a lot of planting of lelandia at that time and it's funny, I, when I was covering an episode last year on hedging, I was questioning, you know, one or two hedges that were currently planting and if you look at it, at that time everybody and I mean everybody, you know even even the, the garden writers talking about the landies and so so everybody was putting it in and, as you rightly said, they're gone everywhere now, thank god. Um, yeah, but you know that there is kind of phases and it does look like to be fair. A lot of the hedging that's going now is going to be more longer term, more beneficial you would. You would also wonder that this is where I was kind of like portuguese laurel is huge at the moment and I find it a brilliant hedge.
Speaker 1:I'm sure you guys grow it um and hopefully, fingers crossed, nothing comes. You know down the line in time that that affects that, because that seems to be the thing you know when something is really in vogue and in fashion and then something comes along to knock it in its tracks a little bit.
Speaker 2:So, um, hopefully we don't see things like that in the in the future, but definitely the, the type of plants that we're generally seeing now seem to be a more resilient longer term option, I would say I think, as well, people are starting to look for a low maintenance type of a hedging because, like traditionally in the 80s I suppose there wasn't such an emphasis on gardens, but I think, especially during the pandemic, when your garden became your only outside space and your side street and your haven, I think people really focused then on having a nice, well-maintained garden that was adding an extra room to the house, basically.
Speaker 2:So, as Robert was saying, the business has grown in the last couple of years and it has taken time, but the massive shift to online sales really propelled our business as well, and we never thought that we'd be selling trees and hedging online.
Speaker 2:Never thought that that would be happening. So we actually, throughout the process of covid, made the decision to close the nursery to the public and focus just on and taking that pain point out of people's lives as well. Like who like who wants to spend their Saturday coming down looking at trees and hedging when we can send them pictures and videos and show them what is here and lift that plant when it's ready and deliver it straight to their door? So there's been lots of factors, but I do think low maintenance and easily maintained is definitely a factor for people who have got back out now, and while the garden is so terribly important and we love our garden as well to be able to bring a beautiful space with low maintenance has been very crucial for people in the last few years, so that could be a reason that Portuguese laurel is such in demand reason that Portuguese laurel is such in demand?
Speaker 1:Yeah for sure, because I have an old booklet here that came out of a paper and it's from the 80s and I was reading it recently and it has the best hedging options for your garden and I've referenced it several times before, but it's a funny one because it has all the usual ones from that time.
Speaker 1:lalande on it, um you know the there's a small bit of beach. There's no portuguese laurel on it, you have privet, uh the green and the yellow privet and all that. But one of the factors they had like a chart going across, and one of the factors that they had of why you'd choose it was number of cuts per year, and obviously that's a number of cuts to keep them looking in the box shape that that everyone considers a hedge needs to be, and but some of them were four cuts a year and on on the likes of uh the privet was three cuts a year, I think yeah but?
Speaker 1:but I don't know, in this day and age, nobody has time to be given their hedge four cuts a year, particularly if it's if it's a big hedge. Um, so we have all the tools and the equipment and we don't know, in this day and age, nobody has time to be given their hedge four cuts a year, particularly if it's a big hedge.
Speaker 2:But we have all the tools and the equipment and we don't have time to do it three or four times a year.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:And the know-how.
Speaker 1:So, seeing as we're on hedging and it's coming to that time of the year, we've obviously mentioned Portuguese Laurel but what do you perceive to be the best hedging these days? And there's various types, and I know it depends on the area, it depends on what you know, what the the customer is looking for in their garden and and so on, but what do you think is the best types of hedging these days?
Speaker 3:I suppose people beach is a lovely hedge. I like beach. Now everyone likes beech for the reason that it loses its leaves. But if a beech hedge, if a beech hedge is kept well and not too wide, it'll actually hold an awful lot of leaves during the winter time. So it's going to be and it's going to hold them tight right into the stem.
Speaker 3:And I'd always tell people, maybe try, if you can try, and trim your hedge, say your beach hedge, in august, end of august, early september, um, and it'll throw back a little flush of growth, not an awful lot, but that that flush of growth will actually keep its leaves nearly, nearly the whole year around. Obviously it's going to lose the leaves for a couple of weeks in may before the fresh flush. But now you can mention that to some people and straight away with the beach um, they just don't like it because because of losers leaves. So then your evergreen hedge and then you're kind of going back. Okay, the same thing again. Laurel could end up being the llandy um. It's a massive seller, to be fair, at the moment and takes a lot of boxes. Evergreen, fast growing um can get a bit, you know, if it's not kept, if it's not kept trimmed. Needs to be trimmed a couple of times a year.
Speaker 1:Yeah, to be fair, you know yeah, and beach is a funny one because it's probably my favorite hedge as well. It's what I have around the house. I do have some other hedges inside in it, but the main perimeter is beech and I find it a great hedge and it really only is three or four weeks where it's pushing out the new leaf that it looks horrible and it does look horrible at that time, but it is a very, very short window before the the the new leaves burst out and it pushes off the old leaf.
Speaker 1:That's the only time of the year that it doesn't look like a nice hedge I think for the rest of the year.
Speaker 3:It's a fantastic looking hedge and especially in the autumn time as well.
Speaker 2:It's unbelievable we, we have it all the way around our, our house and then we have a laneway that's. I'd say there's probably about 100 meters of the hedge, then kind of curving up the laneway. But what we did now, whether it was intentional or not on rob's behalf, I don't know, but we've pockets of copper, so you'd have a run of green and then say four copper together and just that contrast in summer is gorgeous as well.
Speaker 3:Yeah we haven't been mad about the copper mixing, think it's lovely. You know, I'd rather just kind of plant and hedge and just keep it all the same. Yeah, because there's so much.
Speaker 1:Definitely. I would like that Not in all scenarios, but I think it's lovely. There's a stud farm up near Clayne in County Gildare and they have it along the road and it's green.
Speaker 2:I know that stud farm. It's fabulous.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's green, it's fabulous, yeah, it's fabulous, and. But I suppose what people have done in the past is they might have gone with, you know, four meters of green, one meter of of purple, but what ends up happening is that the green is a bit too dominant and it sort of pushes it out, and you end up with that with that one meter, you only end up with a small little window, whereas I think in the block that you say katrina, it does look impressive.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's actually on a curve around part of the, but now we have a bit of everything in the garden we have Portuguese and we have Privet, and we have a bit of Laurel and they all serve a purpose. Yeah, for sure they're all put in for a particular reason.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so let's talk about some of the others. So obviously, portuguese Laurel is probably the one that's most, I suppose, in vogue at the moment. Everybody seems to be planting it. It's, it's in high demand. It's a lovely hedge, uh, really easy to maintain evergreen. It has a lot going for it at the moment. Would you see it as being one of the most popular at the moment?
Speaker 3:Yes, yeah, a few years ago, a few years ago, we've grew very little Portuguese Lauren. Actually, probably it's a the last four or five years, four or five years of history we've taken off.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 3:And even around here now. Maybe a few years ago you'd be trying. People had asked you about Portuguese hedge and maybe we started to grow into Portuguese and you'd be actually trying to think where is there a nice Portuguese hedge you could tell them to call and there was actually. There was actually none at the time yeah, yeah and so, look, it really really has came into itself. Now, to be fair, there's a bit there's an elegance or something about it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah that, yeah, that dark, that dark green is, is classy, and the smaller leaf as well. It looks tidier when it's cut and I suppose it is hardy as well, and the the one thing I find with it is that it actually fills out quite quickly, so you're not waiting for a huge amount of time for it. You know, if you give it, if you put in a reasonable size plant, you know, give it two or three years and you'll be starting to form a good hedge at that stage.
Speaker 1:So it's yeah it's quite quick, which I think is a big plus for it as well yeah, another plant that's really starting to take off.
Speaker 2:For us we have a caray rouge red robin and that's doing really, really well because it's that darker green leaf. It's an awful lot more dense and compact, say, than the fatinia, and a really nice blood red color, and anybody who comes to the nursery with the intention of an evergreen hedge, as long as their site is not too windy, that's what they're going home with, that's what they're looking for it's a really nice hedge as well. I actually put a few of them in the garden just to let them up a shrub.
Speaker 1:Yeah, what is that now again?
Speaker 2:It's a cariouge, it's a Fittinia cariouge.
Speaker 1:Right Because, yeah, on one of my, one of my hates in terms of hedges and I've said it on the podcast before is the the fotinia red robin the loose, the loose hedge and I think as a hedge, people see the red and they think, oh, this is gorgeous, but as a hedge I don't think it's a good hedge because it's gappy at the bottom. Yeah, if you are going to maintain it as a hedge, you're typically cutting it and you never really get to see the red, except on the top tips, and so so I always find that it's a hedge I never like. But that sounds like a good one and I wasn't aware of it actually it's actually a new enough.
Speaker 3:It's grown as a more compact head, yeah it is lovely hedge, so if you had fair enough, it's now. Look at it, it's not a boundary hedge. I would say if you were trying to maybe square off little areas, your garden or maybe different things like that, it's actually a lovely hedge, it's lovely you know, but it is more compact than the Fraserite and much denser even from the bottom.
Speaker 2:Now it's trickier to grow. It takes that little bit of time and even when we have it in the tunnels there's an awful lot more cutting back on it. It takes a spell outside for them to harden off, to get that woody strength in this, in the stems of it. But once you have it up and like, there's a couple of pictures and we're on tiktok and all of those things and they're tiktok. It's there and it's on the website as well. But it's an absolutely lovely and the red is a real. It's a beautiful dark red. It's more of a yeah, that is proven, very, very popular with people. And now people do ring looking for fitinia and we have a small amount of fitinia but we are certainly starting to move away from it to the carrie rouge because it does take an awful lot more boxes.
Speaker 2:But I know of a guy who has a fitinia hedge locally now. It's lovely but he does mind it, doesn't he? Yeah, he feeds it. It's got the green net. He only took the green net down about this year and I'd say it's up five years. He clips it well, he keeps it very, very well. So when it is done well, and he has maintained that bushiness at the bottom as well. He does mind it, and it is a lovely hedge. It's to the front it was probably.
Speaker 3:It's only maybe four foot. I think that's the reason.
Speaker 1:That's yeah nice and pushing yeah, and I think if what you're saying there, if if the person is patient after they've planted and they're willing to keep it really short for a while to allow it to fill at the base, then potentially it could turn into a good hedge. But typically when you see, when you see it around the country, it's tall, it's gappy at the bottom.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I don't like it. It goes get worse. Yeah, I don't like it typically as a hedge, but it could be good if somebody was willing to invest the time in it and the care into it We've had lots of people who've come back to us looking for laurels to plant under a red robin hedge to fill that gap.
Speaker 1:Yeah, right it's so great. And it's very hard to try and tell them that's not gonna work. Yeah, um, you mentioned cherry laurel or ordinary laurel, so yeah, that's, that's a bit of a tricky one. Still a great hedge and but there is in certain circles, you know, a bit of a move away from it as well. It's particularly in the uk.
Speaker 1:It's seen a little bit, as you know, the lalandy of the day, I guess, and because it does have that tendency to to take over, particularly if it's planted, you know, in front of a another hedge or if there's, if there's something off. But if it's kept trimmed and it's kept, you know, tidy on both sides, then you can, you can keep on top of it and it still is a good hedge.
Speaker 3:But if it is a good hedge, it just needs needs manners, kept on it yeah, exactly, yeah, for sure you know that's yeah and what other?
Speaker 1:what other hedging are you seeing? That's really good that people could be considering for their gardens massive push to native.
Speaker 2:I think there's an awful lot of patent permissions being granted now where they're asking people, yeah, to plant native indigenous plants, and they're not giving you a list, say, like, the acre scheme is giving you a list, but it's definitely telling you to move more so to what's currently growing native in your area yeah massive push.
Speaker 2:We do like a native hedging pack on the website and it's honestly one of the best sellers, like it's literally 100 plants in a pack but you'd find into built-up areas like big, into dublin. People are bringing in just and trying to put a bit of flowering and something for the bees and the birds into their garden and that is a really good seller with us. So including that you've got a bit of white thorn, spindle, hazel, gilder, rose rosa rugosa is starting to make a little bit of a comeback as well yeah, for the
Speaker 2:flowering properties yeah, rosa canina as well. And blackthorn wouldn't be 100% a fan of blackthorn because it spreads so much and so many farmers I've had a conversation with in the last 12 months because it's on the acres list and they're saying I don't want that. I spent years cutting that back in the ditch. I don't want it.
Speaker 2:But native hedging like the trees five, ten years ago, native hedging is becoming so incredibly popular in small spaces as well and people just wanting to bring that bit of color and that bit of um, that bit of fruiting as well. There's a beautiful job that we did down near Loughlin Bridge with the Pudding Gilded Rose in a double row and they put a bark mulch base on it. We went back to check it one time this time last year and it had turned that beautiful red color and it was just abundant with the berries, all red berries and it kind of the back of it was uh, so obviously you have the contrast of bark wolf, but then the back was kind of like a paneled wall as well that had a dark paint stain on it.
Speaker 1:It was just gorgeous really really gorgeous rosary goss is fantastic and that mix is is really popular. I planted it around. I've tunneled out the back and I planted it around, uh, the site, basically at the end of that. So the beach, the beach frames one half of it and then this hedge has gone in the last couple years and now it's only there two years. But it is doing really well and in time it'll be, it'll be full of color and you can see the rose or gosu with the color at this time of year and and the and the hips on it is is really nice.
Speaker 1:The only thing with them and I can understand why people are buying it obviously it's it's on your planning permission in a lot of cases and, as you said, it's pity people in cities are looking to bring some sort of sort of biodiversity into their gardens, which has been, I suppose, typically not easy to do. Um, you do need to maintain them slightly differently. You know it's not going to. If you, if you keep them trimmed into the normal tight shape, you're never going to see the full beauty of it now you kind of need to let them come out a bit, don't you?
Speaker 3:yeah, because you're going to have different growth patterns, like you'll have a spindle, maybe growing higher than a white tern, or then there's a gilded rose maybe won't grow as quick as something else, but you say it's an informal hedge Perfect. Yeah, you know just maybe let it do its own thing.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 3:Look at if you keep them clipped back, don't go mental on them, maybe after flowering or something or after burying or something and look at them. They'd be fabulous. To be fair, we've even had people only planted, maybe even five metres in a sea house or a sink, you know, and seeing them, then you might be passing, maybe in a year or two assignment just are lovely to be fair.
Speaker 2:We did a job out in Knockananna, just across the border in Wicklow, and they got a bit of funding to do a sensory garden and then they had like a grass patch that they put a tunnel on and they did a border of native hedging and through that we put a few mountain ash trees, a few prunus aeolum and there was a few tillia in it as well. Yeah, just for the good for the bees. Yeah, and I think we put a bit of privet into it as well, because it's glamorous for the bees as well, and to go back to that during the summer, oh, it's just lovely, it's just lovely and they and even the scene at different heights.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it just looks well, it just all compliments each other yeah, yeah, because you have various, various levels of interest in it, then, and it's yeah yeah, yeah, rather than just looking at your straight edge of portuguese or your beach or whatever you know, yeah um, you mentioned you mentioned earlier on um about short-grown hedges and obviously books is probably still the most popular.
Speaker 1:I would say, um, people a little bit wary of it at times, but I think if it's treated properly it's still a great hedge and you won't have any issues with it. What are you guys finding is is good in in short-grown hedges, you know, for framing flower beds or whatever?
Speaker 3:I think, yeah, the box is good and I I always like people the talking about possible liking that and, to be fair, any of those things I think you have to get. If they're really well looked after, really well fed and they're able to be anything that comes on, it's just, it's no different than a human or an animal or anything. If they're looked after properly and they will they'll definitely um, they'll outgrow any diseases that come to hit them.
Speaker 1:Now, that's that's my personal thing on it yeah, I'm delighted you said that, because that's something that I've said I don't know how many times over the last couple of years. Like a healthy plant typically will fight off 90 of what comes its way. Um, yeah, within reason, and you know, when you see these pictures online of of buxus blight, it's it's typically something that's completely neglected or you know, it's a books as corner, a ball at a front door that hasn't got water or feed in six months.
Speaker 1:And it's sitting underneath and people are wondering why it's dead.
Speaker 3:Well, it gets water when it's dead. Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:And it might have died because of books as blight in the end, but it was seriously stressed before it got it and think that is hugely important that you know healthy, healthy, grown, strong grown plants rarely pick up anything like that so exactly, yeah, I'm a firm believer now, yeah yeah, and there is treatments out there.
Speaker 2:There is treatments and, to be honest with you, if anyone comes looking for um boxes, I would always send a link or send you know a text message back to say make sure you treat it. You can get it in your local hardware store.
Speaker 3:This is what it looks like yeah but if they're, the best treatment is feed. Yeah, yeah yeah, and like the chicken pellet uh chicken manure pellets. I think they're very good, organic, they're clean. Throw them on top of the ground, let the water wash wash the nutrients down to the roots, and it takes a lot of boxes as well yeah, anything else in in really short growing hedges.
Speaker 1:You obviously mentioned the the red robin alternative earlier which can be kept short. Anything else that you carry rouge um.
Speaker 3:So the box Carrier Rouge people I know very fast grown. But even for the wheel people will actually use Privet yeah now same thing. What we were talking about earlier probably does actually does need the four clippings a year yeah but the only thing about it and you hear with people if they do clip it, keep them, keep them nice and sharp. Um, you pick it up with a lawnmower or something like that yeah, yeah, yeah, there's a euonymus uh, micro phyllis.
Speaker 3:We don't do much of it at the moment, but it is starting to to begin to get popular yeah, it's a small little leaf yeah, that's, that's a nice one.
Speaker 1:I've never, never planted or grown it myself, but yeah, it does look nice and not as nice as boxes when it's tidy, but it it still looks, looks decent, it's. It frames a bed quite well, but um yeah there's one, linicera natida, which, um, I don't know if you guys grow that, it's one, I it's. It can be kept very like a buxus maybe yeah it wouldn't want to be kept much lower than sort of two foot, um, but that one is quite good, but it's definitely gone, old-fashioned people.
Speaker 3:People consider it to be old-fashioned um, I think it was might have been grown in a lot of houses, maybe back through the years, wasn't it?
Speaker 1:back through the years? Yeah, but nat. Back through the years? Yeah, but Natida, that particular one is. It's so easy to keep it small, it does need a few cuts a year as well, but it's where I like it. It's very tough. It'll grow where most other things won't grow, which is which is kind of good, so that's a good option. Any other hedges? Obviously we spoke about the native, we spoke about beach Laurel, portuguese Laurel. Any other hedges that you guys are doing?
Speaker 2:We do a bit of Eliagnes, so we'd always have people. Obviously we do with Grizzly as well, but we'd always have somebody who's looking for a little bit something different along the coast. So Eliagnes would certainly fit that bill. We wouldn't do massive numbers of it because it is kind of niche, I suppose, and and we were growing that in pots, whereas the grizzly you can line out and grow it on as bare root plant and that was good. We did escalonia for a while, but it kind of moved away from escalonia. Just wasn't the demand.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's gone out of fashion definitely got out of fashion, but it is a great plant as well yeah, um holly holly hedge yeah they're starting to get popular as well.
Speaker 3:They're nice, a little bit thorny a little bit slow, but it's amazing. Um holly will see, could actually sit in the ground for two years and then all of a sudden it would just shoot.
Speaker 2:Yeah, we have a crop of root ball hollies out there and for a long time we were walking past them and I went down just measuring there as we were starting to do pricing for the bare-root season and there's plants in a five and six feet tall and they're absolutely fabulous.
Speaker 3:Yeah, it's amazing, sometimes the hobbies, if you can keep the weeds, you know, keep the weeds, keep them ahead of the weeds when they're small, um, and it's just after two or three years, then they would just start showing up. They just start showing up growth and you've seen, you can see fresh growth, maybe 12, 14 inches on fresh growth after maybe three, four, four, five years.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's a classy plant. When it's in a full hedge it's very classy.
Speaker 3:Yeah, really nice.
Speaker 1:It takes a little bit of time to get there already, but it is really nice. Another similar one Taxospicata is another good one.
Speaker 2:We have a bit of Irish hue in the ground it went into. I don't know why we had it. We got it in for something and we lined it out Very slow as well. Obviously the Viaducton, yeah, Boris, wasn't it? We did the Viaducton, planted the Viaducton Boris, but actually sold a few of them last year into somewhere up in Stormont, was it?
Speaker 3:I think it did actually it went year into somewhere up in Stormont, was it?
Speaker 2:I think it is Some went into the government buildings in Stormont we actually have. Hollies that went into the Oras and Uachtarán earlier on in the year. We met the president at the Plough and Temperature last year and Cuileann Oscailea is Cuileann and Holly same word and I approached him obviously and he was happy to accept three hollies, so we sent tree hollies to the oars last year I enjoyed it. You know, like the road away there and did you?
Speaker 1:did you get pictures of them being planted and everything, or?
Speaker 2:no, I didn't. I'll tell you the truth I'm a three boys. Picture the van. We have three boys. I was coming home to get one into a football match, I think I know the feeling.
Speaker 1:so hedging obviously the time of year for it, but also trees, it's a great time of year to plant trees. So you were speaking about earlier on some of the autumn colours on Rosa Ragosa and so on, I passed by somewhere today that had probably 25 mountain ash quite bushy mountain ash. They weren't that old particularly, but they were bushy and they were all in their autumn color and they looked absolutely class. So I'm sure the likes of mountain ash is still very popular with you. But what other kind of native trees or what other trees are you seeing? That's really popular. The acre scheme, of course, has driven a lot of planting over the last couple of but um, yeah, I'm sure you guys are seeing a lot of oak trees.
Speaker 3:Oak is very, very, very, very popular.
Speaker 2:Yeah, silver birch very popular um downy birch a lot of people looking for a mix of downy birch. We have an awful lot of people who are looking to screen out the neighbor and she couldn't be Alder, silver Birch and Downy Birch for screening out the neighbour. But Whitebeam, whitebeam for a long time we didn't grow much of, but we've a nice few Whitebeam in the in the ground now for this year actually.
Speaker 1:Sorbus Aria, lovely tree lovely silvery leaf on it, yeah yeah, seen it planted with Acer crimson king locally.
Speaker 2:Now it's I'd say it's been planted 20, 25 years, but that contrast yeah he's lovely in the summer.
Speaker 2:Uh, that's a popular one hawthorn trees yeah, an actual white thorn tree and lots of people starting to look for that and I'm starting to see a bit of a comeback in the acer compastri. That field maple as a tree is very, very nice, but I suppose it's nice to be able to tell people like there's, I think, four of them planted outside of the little in tullow and they're just gorgeous and this time of the year they just speak for themselves. They're fantastic.
Speaker 3:So beech trees, they're always people looking for beech proper beech, yeah, and as I was saying before, like you've been talking about, native beech, is is not a native but, as we were saying, it's been grown in this country for hundreds of years. Chestnut is another one, yeah.
Speaker 2:We actually have a beautiful batch of sweet chestnuts out there. Sweet chestnuts, yeah, lovely tree as well.
Speaker 3:Gorgeous tree.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's a great tree.
Speaker 3:You have a great variety of trees, to be fair, yeah.
Speaker 1:And when people think about biodiversity they they think of hedges and they think of wildflower meadows and so on. But a tree, especially a mature tree, is, is one of the best things for for bees and pollinators to be fair, and people, people sort of overlook it a little bit. But you know a fully grown harsh chestnut, you won't see them, but there could be thousands of bees around that because they're so far up. But you know, trees have a huge place in.
Speaker 3:I even see just here in the north. You know, we've two big sycamores and in the summer's evening the noise of bees in them is unbelievable.
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 2:Whenever they're getting getting now, there's leaves, whether it's a wax or something, but it's unreal we planted oak trees for each of the kids when they were born, and and we planted one, one common oak and then two red oaks because they're just the color of them. But an oak tree, I think, is 326 life forms it supports. Oak trees are big, big, big, big going oak trees in the last couple of years yeah, it's huge.
Speaker 1:How's what size are the red oaks now?
Speaker 3:you're better than size. Oh, we can see. We the lads are 10, 12 and 14. So, yeah, you know what you'll be talking about. An oak tree being slow. Yeah, the youngest oak tree 10 is planted, 10 year old. Probably was only maybe three or four year old when we planted and I'd say it's hitting 25.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's always unbelievable, yeah it's always the youngest child um, so I have a red oak out the front and it would be my favorite tree for autumn color. I just love the size. The size of the leaf is just very impressive and the color is very impressive. Um, now it's planted about four or five years now. The only thing about it it doesn't hold that color for very long at all and last weekend they got whipped off on on sunday yeah, anything that was actually you can see.
Speaker 2:Obviously I drive past it every day and every day I drive in from the school run. It looks that little bit redder every single day. Now it realistically is only a week yeah, is it a week, 10 days. Maybe you're going to get that color, but it is. It's worth the wait.
Speaker 1:Like it's yeah, it's fantastic, yeah, that that about two weeks ago it was just, it was just a full red from top to bottom, and but then they all got blown off last weekend.
Speaker 1:So because if you got a proper autumn yeah, they're really showing colors then yeah, no, it's a fantastic tree yeah so of the trees that you grow, then it sounds like the vast majority are native or they have been growing here for a long time or that sort of thing. Um, there's have to be a huge uptake over the last couple years, obviously with acres and and previously reps. I sure that has helped your business, but it's also great for generally speaking around the countryside, for biodiversity and and so on yeah, we in fairness.
Speaker 2:Robert was growing native trees years ago and I suppose nobody was growing yeah and we would have found through reps an awful lot of and gloss. We sold him an awful lot of product into the west of ireland and his first delivery I remember he left one saturday morning, he collected his dad and they went on and when they got to mayo somewhere wasn't it actually.
Speaker 1:Yeah, your man was waiting.
Speaker 2:I need a fry and everything. And he rang back.
Speaker 2:He was like he's up for paying me and giving me a fry. We're onto something here and those people buy trees off us every, say, five years, as in they. They were financially incentivized to plant then, but then after five or six or seven years, people are seeing what a tree is doing to their, to their space in their garden and they're buying again and again and again. So all of those schemes are fantastic, first of all to get trees into the ground, but secondly for awakening and respect and enthusiasm for planting. And often we find that the farmer rings say two days before you do, the wife is looking for something bigger for the garden.
Speaker 2:Send up something when you're coming you know that they haven't invested in before because they've been so busy working or whatever, but then they're seeing the benefit of it and they're just planting every couple of years after that as well.
Speaker 3:And probably for years farmers were told make fields bigger, pull out trees, pull out hedges, and now it has gone completely turned around. I've often seen back, especially we just say for the reps actually, for that was probably one of the first schemes where they start bringing in hedging and trees, and we used to get farmers bringing up oh, I have to plant so many meters of a hedge and all this and uh, that was grand. It was only they were getting paid for it. They probably would have never done it. But then to see, and then maybe give them five or six years, then when the hedge gets up, almost that looks lovely or great shelter for stock, we'll plant more of it, and a lot of them would have done it on their own back then as well. So things have completely done it completely 360, yeah, to be fair, you know, between native planting and trees, hedgerows, the whole thing has yeah yeah, definitely, and as you say it it switches the whole thing has got to be.
Speaker 1:Yeah, definitely, and, as you say, it switches the mindset. Initially, obviously they're getting incentivized, but then, when they see the benefits and obviously it's the benefits, as you said, and sheltering stock and so on, but they also see the benefits for nature and for biodiversity and they see those things and then they look to improve on that. And then that rolls out further, obviously into into gardens and into parks and into public spaces and all that.
Speaker 2:so, yeah, it's but even here in the nursery, like we have planted strategically, so like we had a wet patch down at the bottom of the nursery, we planted alder trees around it just to dry up the land and improve the soil quality there. Like we have planted all around the boundaries to protect us from storms. I remember one year we had storm francis and storm ellen and we were expecting francis to do damage and he didn't, but ellen did.
Speaker 2:You know, we're constantly planting, like leaving areas in the nursery to just let them grow wild, because, as they say was, a weed is just a flower in the wrong place and that brings in pollinators, and it actually helps to reduce our dependence on pesticides, like we took down the tops of all the trees that have gone too big and left them there as a kind of a an ecosystem for mammals and insects. And all of that pays dividends because it does increase your crop yield. Like we have planted we plant every year, don't?
Speaker 3:we plant every year what we do. Sometimes we'd have trees maybe that wouldn't make it for sale, maybe a little bit crooked or something like that, to be perfect and we plant them in the ditches along as, as I said, any of them wins. Even last weekend there we got that strong wind and we grow a lot, a lot of the trees that you know, the young trees that we have to stake, that we've grown them to seven or eight and and, to be fair, there wouldn't be a budget, you know, and just as we've made shelter that way, natural shelter yeah, yeah, for sure.
Speaker 1:You mentioned earlier on katrina about, uh, how you know your sustainability is quite important to you and you won an award last year for your sustainability practices, so just tell us a little bit about that as well yeah, so we do a good bit of work for a local enterprise office and we did this green for micro program.
Speaker 2:Now my background is in quality management systems so I would have kind of a fair of handle on sustainability and I know we grow trees but we wanted to do it as green as possible. Now, obviously, we offered nationwide delivery service. Electric vehicle is not going to be on the cards for us for the next couple of years.
Speaker 1:You won't make it to knock anyway.
Speaker 2:No, wouldn't make it. Well, you might make it there, but you won't make it home. But we wanted to obviously reduce our carbon footprint and just we got an advisory to look at what we were doing. Very well, and, like I said, like things that we just did because it made sense. We weren't, we weren't doing it for tick the box sustainability exercise.
Speaker 2:We were doing it because it makes sense but, when he came in our carbon footprint and he analyzed the business and what we have already done and our carbon footprint was actually much lower than we were expecting it to be and then from that we were able to footprint was actually much lower than we were expecting it to be and then from that we were able to put little practices and improve systems and methodologies to further reduce it and the likes of things like I love learning stuff, like I like training and I like upskilling the whole time. Little things like we take in transition year students, we give community talks, we're involved in the creations of biodiversity garden in Hackettstown and there's a big push on community planting and biodiversity and grants and, in fairness, there's some very, very good people in communities who are looking for grants for trees and for planting, which is great for us. Obviously. Obviously we'd love to give advice and we've donated plants to certain things like that as well. So, yes, sustainability is very, very important to us.
Speaker 1:Like I said, we like to grow trees, but we like to grow them as green as we possibly can as well yeah, no, it's important, I think, something that's a little bit, I suppose, forgotten about when it comes to horticulture as well, and this, this came up in the in the peat debate a couple years ago and you know the small percentage of peat that the horticultural industry used and I suppose, when you think about it, a lot of the of that peat was being used to produce shrubs and trees, particularly that are going to go into the ground for trees, anything up to 50, 100 years and they're going to lock in carbon all through that time period. And yeah, I think sometimes it's a little bit misunderstood, but when it comes to trees and things that are going to be in the ground for that length of time, I think you know there's, there's benefit beyond your farm gate, let's say so.
Speaker 2:Once they go off to your, your customer's garden and they plant their trees, they're going to continue locking in carbon there for a long period of time yeah, so part of that sustainability project, we actually worked with our advisor and so with access to a carbon calculator, so we were able to show people, like I think it was, 20 scots pines planted over 10 years would sequester one ton of carbon, like and at the time, like the 20 scots pines, or maybe it's the opposite way around, but they fit in your hand, they cost you 30 qu, you know, and that can sequester one ton of carbon.
Speaker 2:So little things like that, to be able to educate people on little steps that they can take, because when we think about the environment and sustainability and biodiversity, everybody thinks that they have to stop washing themselves and not use chemicals. And there's so many little things that you can do that can make a difference Small, small actions that can make a difference. So it's important to us that we can educate people on that as well. And you know, and to talk the talk and walk the walk reduce our pesticides, reduce our fertilizer. We keep a few cattle. It's a hobby. Robert doesn't play golf and he's not a big drinker, but he loves the process of buying in cattle, feeding them on and we turn them out to the factory, but like we use the dung and we export that into the nursery.
Speaker 3:So you know, with no fertilizer it's a big thing actually every year we spread the dung in, probably before we start lining out, and so we spread it out in marsh, flow it into the ground. That's unbelievable. So we spread it out in marsh, flow it into the ground that's unbelievable. We use, typically say, no fertilizer, chick manure pellets, chick manure pellets on potted plants, but in the open ground there's nearly lots of dump cloud into the ground.
Speaker 1:You're feeding the soil rather than the plant.
Speaker 3:Exactly, and, at the end of the day, society, it's paying dividends dividends to be fair.
Speaker 1:Yeah, for sure.
Speaker 2:He had turned that as well. Kind of a trick learned from his dad, yeah.
Speaker 3:We'd have the dung and we'd turn it. So you're composting it. I remember, even back a few years ago, he'd tell us to go up and maybe turn a heap of dung and we'd take just once to go in. But look, that's years ago now and you're going back that way again.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's funny you're going back. That way is right. Like my grandparents used to live in carlow town, right in the center of it, and used to grow a lot of veg in there, and he used to come out to where we live and he'd get bags of dung, bring them back into carlo, but he used to collect the rainwater off the shed. He used to put the dung into a hessian bag and tie a lid on and put that bag in suspended in the barrel of water and then he'd use that barrel of water to feed the cabbage plants and like like you won't get anything better in terms of feeling, and yeah, it is.
Speaker 1:You know, people are starting to become aware of that as well. So, yeah, yeah, it's, it's, it's, it's great stuff for sure, and so you're obviously getting ready for a very busy couple of weeks coming up and you'll be starting lifting, I'm sure quite soon. Bare roots couple of weeks we're hoping.
Speaker 3:We're hoping to get in first week in November, but all depends on the weather yeah we need. We need a good couple of good nights shower for us, just to put stuff back asleep yeah we lift too early. I don't like lifting plants early, just saying I'd rather to go back into dormancy.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you're putting all the nutrients back into the root and at least then you're starting with something budging yeah, for sure, and I don't know about you guys, but up here we've only seen there was two heavy nights frost. Actually two weeks ago wiped out wiped out all my tomatoes and they were only really really starting to do their best after a cold enough spring. But there hasn't been yeah, it hasn't been that terrible cold, and even today is mild.
Speaker 3:Today it was very mild, yeah, and then, as we were saying earlier, there is a shift. I remember even back through the years, we could start lifting plants in mid-September and it just shows you how quickly I suppose over space of 10 or 15 years away, has pushed. It was two years ago, I think. Nothing was lifted.
Speaker 2:I think it was 20th November yeah, 19th or 20th November last year I think it was a bit.
Speaker 3:Last year was a little bit earlier yeah, so look we're hoping this year to get an early start. The weather was fine yeah, yeah, for sure.
Speaker 1:So in the coming weeks anyway, you'll be getting busy, you will be lifting, depending on weather. But tell people where they can find cullen nurseries. I'll put the link in the show notes anyway so people can find it. But uh, just direct people to your website and so on. Now and any queries I guess they email you.
Speaker 2:Is that kind of day yeah, so whatsapp is actually probably the quickest way to get it. So if anybody wants to text over their query to WhatsApp 0857762634,. There's also a chatbot on the website cullinertuariesie. If you click on that chatbot you get straight through to my phone Info at cullinertuariesie for email inquiries as well. I love to talk so people can pick up the phone and give us a call, absolutely no problem at all. But we're on all social medias instagram, facebook, tiktok and not on twitter. Well, no great interest in twitter, but uh, cuddlenertriesie, the whatsapp chat bot is very, very good for people if they just want to get straight through to talk to me and I'll pick up the phone yeah, brilliant.
Speaker 1:Um, it's been really interesting, josh. They're great to chat to someone who's quite close to me and best of luck for the upcoming bare root season. So, katrina and Robert, thank you very much for coming on. Master, my Garden podcast.
Speaker 2:Thanks, john, very much John.
Speaker 1:So that's been this week's episode. Huge thanks to Katrina and Robert for coming on Great nursery. I've never actually just seeing what they've been doing online for the last couple of years, particularly, as katrina said, since code, but I've seen them a lot online. And yeah, this time of year we always cover hedging and planting ahead of the bare root season. So anyone considering any type of planting, you know there's lots of good tips there. What's what's a good hedges at the moment, things to look out for and, as robert said, feeding the soil is very important for some of those trickier ones, the likes of boxes and so on. Feed your soil, keep them growing really well, and then you'll, then you'll be fine. So that's been this week's episode. Thanks for listening and until the next time, happy garden, thank you.