Master My Garden Podcast
Master My Garden Podcast
- EP282- From Lawn to Flower Paradise: Creating a Cutting Garden with Colin Jones Salterbridge Gardens
Horticultural journeys often begin in unexpected ways. For Colin Jones, head gardener at Salterbridge Gardens, it started with his grandfather's fruit patch and eventually led to prestigious gardens across Ireland and Scotland. Now managing a magnificent private estate in Waterford, Colin brings passion, expertise and global perspective to garden creation.
The transformation of Salterbridge under Colin's stewardship has been remarkable. Over just three years, he's planted 1,600 trees and shrubs, developed stunning herbaceous borders, and created a breathtaking cutting garden that became the focal point for a family wedding. His approach combines practical wisdom with artistic vision – focusing on infrastructure before planting, limiting varieties while increasing quantities of signature plants like Verbena 'Bampton', and selecting hero plants including 28 varieties of dahlias.
What sets Colin's work apart is his deep understanding of plants in their natural context. His plant-finding expeditions to Yunnan in Southwest China have profoundly influenced his design philosophy. Witnessing Thalictrum delavayi growing alongside Hypericum forrestii in the wild inspired combinations he's recreated at Salterbridge. As he explains, "If you can go to where a plant originates and see how it's growing, you have a better understanding straight away of what conditions it needs."
Colin's insights extend beyond professional gardens to practical advice for home gardeners. From navigating challenges with deer to balancing gardening with family life, his experiences resonate with anyone trying to create beauty within constraints. His philosophy that "the best way to keep a plant is to give it away" speaks to the deeper connections gardening creates between people and places.
Experience Salterbridge Gardens for yourself by arranging a group visit, or catch Colin's upcoming talks about his horticultural adventures. Whether you're planning your own cutting garden or simply appreciate the art of thoughtful garden design, Colin's journey from apprentice to master offers inspiration for gardeners at every level.
You can contact Colin Here: salterbridge.gardens@gmail.com
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Until next week
Happy gardening
John
how's it going, everybody, and welcome to episode 282 of master, my garden podcast. Now, this week's episode I'm looking forward to, uh, and I'm chatting with colin jones. So colin was a speaker at buds and blossoms a couple of weeks ago and gave a brilliant presentation on creating a cutting garden, or a cut flower garden, from scratch and over the course of a season, with some time pressures in it, but it was a brilliant. It was a brilliant presentation, fabulous looking garden, what ended up being a beautiful space, with some challenges along the way, but it's a great story and it's going to be interesting to hear how someone can create, you know, their own cutting garden at home. We spoke about it a little bit on the podcast before, but maybe we would kind of delve into it from start to finish and what somebody might need to do and possible plants and so on.
Speaker 1:But that's not the only string to the bow. He's the head gardener in Salter Bridge Gardens, which is a private garden, can open to, you know, open to groups and tours. He's a fantastic horticulturalist, has been on many, I suppose, plant finding trips around the world. We'll hear about some of those. So yeah, look, there's loads, loads to chat about. As I say, a fantastic gardener who I've known for a little while but only recently spoke to him for the first time at, as I say, buds and blossoms. So golly, you're very, very welcome to master my garden podcast thanks very much, john.
Speaker 2:Great to be here. I've been listening for a long time, so it's exciting to finally be on with you yeah, yeah, it's, it's, it's.
Speaker 1:Uh. There's loads of people that you know I've been trying to get on and you've been on the radar for a long time and, yeah, we finally got to catch up, I suppose, at Buds and Blossoms a couple of weeks ago. So, lovely, lovely to have you on at last Loads we can talk about. There's a wide array of topics, I guess before we get into Salter Bridge and you know the creating of a cutting garden, just a little bit about your horticultural sort of journey so far and you know what has taken you from getting into gardening horticulture to where you are today in head gardener in Salter Bridge.
Speaker 2:Okay, no, bother, I suppose it goes back a long time. I remember my grandfather when I was five or six, you know he used to grow it was mostly fruit, I seem to recall he grew and then, um, uh, my father, he had a big fruit and veg patch um, back where I was growing up in the country as well. Now, conveniently for him, he worked offshore, so he was only there two weeks and then gone for another two weeks. So it was up to me to look after the rest of it, or a lot of it, me and my brother and sister. And then, um, yeah, uh, from there I developed a bit.
Speaker 2:I wouldn't say I disliked it, but, um, it kind of fell out with me for a long time. Like you know, I went away and moved into Aberdeen, the near city to me, ended up working security, um things like that. My very first job when I left school actually was a landscaper, um, doing that for a summer. And then season ended and I moved out of home so I needed, needed something to pay the rent. So I kind of fell into security and ended up doing that for a few years, which I don't think that did me any favors, but after a while there I kind of started thinking you know what it is I want to do? So?
Speaker 2:A local agricultural show. Our horticultural college had a stand there, so my auntie happened to be there and she got a flyer, gave it to me. I applied. I actually forgot to put a stamp on the envelope when I sent it off, so I'm very lucky that they paid the postage and accepted me onto the course anyway.
Speaker 2:So I'm up in the very northeast of Scotland and near Aberdeen, a wee town called Elgin, and this was about five and a half hours southwest, near anybody who's gotten the boat off to Scotland and probably sailed to Stranraer, so it was about an hour north of there. So I was there for I did what was called the diploma back then. So it was a fairly basic course and then a gap year work in which I did way up in the very north of Scotland, the place called the Castle of May, and then they got us back for another year and I stayed on for another year to get my higher national diploma it was called so. Then from there I bounced around a bit in Scotland, worked at a few, a few private estates and things like that, and then I got offered a job, very luckily at uh belly finn.
Speaker 2:I know a lot of people probably know in county leash they're a very exclusive hotel with a fantastic garden there and that was great. That was one of the things that really you know was a defining moment, like I got to come over and anybody who's been there will know that it's a fantastic garden but also getting to work under a very well-known garden designer, jim Reynolds, who was the MD at the time and had a great influence in the garden. So I worked there for a few years and then decided that I kind of needed to get a bit more experience, so again bounced around a little bit here and there and then I ended up at Ducketts Grove in County Carlow. I was there for I think two years, something like that, yeah, so I was a project manager um developing the, the upper walled garden, which is where I first met robert
Speaker 2:miller of alamont, and again, that was another, another great moment getting to know robert and seeing his passion and getting to. He's a very good networker, robert, as well. So getting to know a load of people. As you know, robert knows everybody like, so it's great to get to know people through that. And um, robert actually helped me as well when I applied for a job with um the opw at ansgrove and on a rail um. So ansgrove is a fantastic woodland garden, has an exceptional collection of um rhododendrons and other woody plants as well. So they are um. I was lucky to work with um garden consultant neil porteous as well. So again, another huge influence. And through him I met shamus um. I'd met michael white, the curator at mount congreve when I was working at ducat's grove. So I've been very lucky along the way to meet some people who've really sparked an enthusiasm and just this will for learning to kind of push you on the whole time. You always feel like somebody's just behind you pushing you on the whole time, you know.
Speaker 1:So since then I landed at uh salt bridge here and I've been here I think it's just about three and a half, three and a half years it is now yeah yeah, a long, a long journey in in some respects, and that there's a lot, a lot of places there, a lot of gardens, a lot of very good gardens, and uh, I'd actually you did tell me, but I'd forgotten about ducat's grove and uh, ducat's grove it's a, it's a really nice garden in carroll. It's one that has, over the years, it it got a lot of care for a period, then didn't seem to get much for a while and now is getting a good bit of attention again. So I suspect that the, the walled garden and the borders there, you probably did a lot of early work on that, I would think, because when, when was it roughly?
Speaker 2:you were there um, so I think the council acquired it around 2000 early 2000s anyway, and as you say they put a lot of money into it.
Speaker 2:They had um, you know, I think it's Finola Reid, isn't it? The garden consultant. She was in an awful lot and doing a lot of work there and they put an awful lot of money into it. And then the recession came in 2008. So obviously external well, a lot of non-essential spending had to reduce there and so Duckers Grove was on that, so they ripped out. It's a shame, actually was on that, so they ripped out. It's a shame.
Speaker 2:I said they pulled out a lot of the good plant and that she did, and just put in um like viburnum davidia. They put a load of camellias and rhododendrons in um alkaline soil so they weren't looking too well and they never actually had anybody working there for a long time. So when I came in, it was a bit of a like the bones of it were there, you know, and I didn't do anything structurally to the entire place. It was just I took out all the plants that were there improve the soil, things like that and um kind of replanted. And Robert again, was a huge help to me there, like I maybe wasn't entirely ready to take on a project like that, but he's he's such a personable man that you know.
Speaker 1:He was always at the end of the phone and willing to give a hand and physically gave us a hand planting and things like that as well yeah, I remember that because, like I live not that far from there and I actually remember years ago I would have seen the changes in ducats grove over the years. I remember I was doing one particular job outside the walls of ducats grove for a man he was. He used to be the head porter in in um, what's the big hotel in london, the the biggest fancy hotel, is it? Yeah, one of those? Yeah, so he was the head porter there and he had several encounters with all these famous people, but he was a brilliant.
Speaker 1:He was real small I forget name, but he was a real small little man and he had robins trained at that time to come into his kitchen. So he used to open the door in the morning. I'd be outside doing some work for him and then these robins would just fly into his kitchen, sit on the kitchen table for a few minutes and go out again. But anyway, long story, but I used to be always in and out of Duckers Grove and I remember looking at it saying, oh, it's looking great now there's work being done. And then there was a while where it wasn't and it's good to see it now in good care again.
Speaker 2:Yeah, to be fair to the council, since I left they have taken on. You know, they've replaced me. I think that was. The problem initially was that there was somebody working there and then, when the recession came, I'm not sure what happened exactly, but um, whoever was in charge left and they just never replaced them fully. You know it was all done through ce schemes and things like that, so they need a bit of supervision and instruction as well.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and then balafin, yeah, that's fantastic place, obviously, um vast gardens and gardens that need to feed into a, you know, a five-star hotel as well. So it's an interesting place. You would have got lots of experience there, as you said as well. So, yeah, again, I'd forgotten. You did tell me that when we spoke, but I'd kind of forgotten about that. So the journey continues anyway in Salter Bridge, and it's a private garden as such, but you're there now for the last couple of years. Tell us a little bit about Salterbridge, you know. Tell us you know what. What's happening there, what has happened there over the last couple of years, the plans maybe for the future, and then, obviously, we get talking about what was your fantastic talk at Buds and Blossoms on creating the cutting garden yeah, no, bother.
Speaker 2:So, um, as I said, I I started here I think it was october 2021 steven and helene, the owners, they they bought the estate in august that year. So I think one of the first things they did when they got here was decided they wanted a, an upgrade to the garden. Um, the previous owners, the wingfields, I think they'd been here I don't think it was 100 years, it was maybe around around 60, 70, 80 sort of years and they built in an awful lot of quite a lot of unusual trees and shrubs and that. But there was just acres of lawn underneath it that they cut. So we, after I was here for a couple of months, I kind of had a walk around with Stephen and the owners and said, look, I think it's got the perfect bones for a great woodland garden here. So we pushed down that avenue. So that's been kind of the main I wouldn't say the main focus, but it's one part of the bigger project. So that's, since I've been here, I've planted 16, I think it's about 1,600 trees and shrubs. A lot of them about 400 of those are rhododendrons, I think. So I've got a great grove for rhododendrons and then the plan up with that area of the garden is two big areas of the woodland garden.
Speaker 2:So the plan over time is we're currently we've cut paths into into what was the lawns and we're letting them grow as meadows over time. We want to kind of reduce the vigor of the grass. So this year we're going to look at maybe planting some yellow rattle and things like that and then in a few spots I actually have some some of the woodland herbaceous perennials, like you know. So we have the the existing big tree canopy I've under planted with an awful lot of smaller trees and shrubs, uh, things like that. And you know we're mulching the whole time that we're here. So the area underneath is getting larger and larger. So the plan is to increase the herbaceous perennials under the trees and shrubs like that as well and increase. We get some bulbs and things like that in there. So that's kind of, I wouldn't say, the main focus, but it's one of the big areas that I spend a lot of time thinking about.
Speaker 2:Um, on top of that as well, we, I think at the front of the house we've developed two large herbaceous borders, um, both we've kind of pulled them up. They were awkward shaped in sizes so we kind of expanded them so that we could get more, and emptied them out and I planted like at the moment they're looking fantastic out there a lot of uh, dahlias and geraniums and penstemons and sanguis orbas and things like that. So they're they're starting to sing and dance at this time of year. I've also done another two large um long herbaceous borders. I think they're both two and a half meters wide, they're thereabouts, and again it's it's got different feels to them along the way, um.
Speaker 2:And then, as you said, we have the, the cutting garden as well, which was done last year as well as last year I did the um. It's not quite a bowling green, but certainly a fine lawn, 300 square meters up there as well. So, and then another one for the future is we have a two acre walled garden that I need to put some thought into over the next point. You know, so it's, we're not idle for long around here yeah, it sounds.
Speaker 1:Sounds like it lots of projects. It does this feel like kind of the first garden that you're getting to really put your own influence on? Would would that be fair to say? Yeah, it would be it would be.
Speaker 2:I mean, when I was at Dockerts Grove, um, I was helpful for Robert's help. As I say, I was probably there a bit premature in my career. When I was at ansgrove, obviously, neil porteous was the the garden consultant there and I wouldn't know a great deal about woodland gardening either. Um, so it was great to great, to learn an awful lot off of him as well. But this is the first one where it's kind of um, how would you say, you know, I'm getting a lot of creative freedom. I certainly wouldn't say I can do what I want, not by a long stretch, but I can go to the owners and discuss I'd like to maybe do a few things here, and the majority of the time it's welcomed and it always improves the garden. So they're enthusiastic about the whole process as well.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's nice to have you know somewhere that you can influence, yeah, without without having final say. As you say, the, the owners have that, but it is nice to have your own influence and I suppose, for you to be the main advisor on the project as opposed to following someone else's lead. So that's, that's. That's a nice, uh, that's a nice step up yeah, yeah, yeah it is.
Speaker 2:I find it really rewarding to like everything that we've done here. You know, I was looking there the other day at some photos I took when I first started here in November. It always helps when the place looks dank and drab at the start anyway, but you know, and then you skip back to how things are looking now and like the turnaround is amazing. I find those kind of things really rewarding when you can see. I always, I always like to say that. You know, I've never left a place worse than when.
Speaker 1:I found I've always done improvements along the way. You know, yeah and that's, yeah, that's, that's, that's good and yeah, as you say, a nice look back on those you mentioned that you know, at that, at the, at some point in time, woodland gardening wouldn't have been your, you know, wasn't your your forte or your strongest point, but it sounds like now you have. I presume you know, following on from from man's grove, that you've got developed that element of it and you're talking, you've talked, about creating a biggish wood woodland area here. What kind of planting are we looking at? You did, you did say you have 1600 trees and shrubs yeah.
Speaker 2:So, um, as the majority of the ones that were here, the previous owners they planted, they inherited a lot of legacy oak, so we have some fantastic large oak trees here with loads of the ferns, the polypodums, growing up along the branches, so I'll tell you how old they are. The previous owners they planted quite a lot of acers, a lovely Enchianthus, a Sculus indica, the Indian chestnut, which is looking great at the moment as well. So since I started again, like I mentioned, I've planted, I think, probably around 400 rhododendrons. When I'm doing that, I try to kind of keep them in groups that I think look well. You know you have to.
Speaker 2:Although it's a large area, um, I still think you have to have a design element to it. So you've got repetition down certain areas. I break things off into areas that are separate from each other. You know things like that. Um, so, as we have, philadelphia's is flowering like mad at the moment down here. I actually cut out a few, a few big ones down there, lots of Budleias. I've started a good collection of Hollies as well. There's a great range of Hollies that you can get. I know Ravensburg, up in Offaly, they produce an awful lot of them.
Speaker 1:Okay, go back to the Philadelphia Stair. I actually only mentioned it on the podcast last week. It's in flower at the moment, is it? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. The smell is incredible.
Speaker 2:I love them. I think that they're great plants. Them and the Doitsia is fantastic plants that are flowering at the moment as well. Colquitsia as well is another one which is flowering. All these, these sort of shrubs, you know, they don't take up a huge amount of space. I mean, we're blessed with having, I think, about 12 acres of woodland garden that we can play around with here, but in a small garden, you know, I've seen these planted an awful lot in kind of small corners of the garden. They will, they'll take quite a lot of shade and they kind of contain themselves and they'll just send up suckers every now and again. So you just keep a renewal program.
Speaker 1:Yeah, keep them flowering yeah, no, there's some brilliant ones. I mentioned some of them last week and it was interesting actually to see the comments some of them. Some of them are definitely seen as old-fashioned now, but there's some great flowering shrubs.
Speaker 2:Oh yeah, absolutely like a lot of the ones that are considered old-fashioned um fatsias. When I was in college, fatsia fatsia japonica was a car park plant. You buy them for I've never seen them in a garden center for between seven and nine quid. I know because everybody's gone mad for the Schefflers or the Heptiplurums. Now they're in the same family, aureliaeaceae, so everybody's gone mad on them. You can't get them for less than 20 quid. Now it's.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's funny how it swings, swings yeah, like, and Fatsy is a brilliant one in um in containers as well.
Speaker 2:I've seen some people doing really brilliant things with containers and Fatsy is recently I just planted five um Helene the owner, and we got an extension built and they've put a patio around there and she asked for five fatseas and containers around there and again like they're, they're great. They're evergreen, they flower, they're hardy out, they can take sun, shade, anything you know.
Speaker 1:They're bulletproof almost yeah, and you can put. You can put your, your splash of color with your bedding or your whatever your perennials underneath it, because they you know they have that kind of canopy but they don't block out. So they're, yeah, they're brilliant for containers, brilliant absolutely brilliant.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, 100 yeah, so, yes, that's, that's the kind of the, the woodland garden. Um, you know, I know we haven't gone into it in any great detail, but the, as I said, the theme of your, your talk at buds and blossoms, was the creation of this, uh, cutting garden, and I know there was. Maybe just give us sort of an overview of the story and we might talk about some of the planting that you've used. It was, it was literally from you were starting from scratch here with a deadline, I guess of of a wedding coming up, so it was interesting, yeah um yeah.
Speaker 2:So as I say, like um, um anyone who was at the talk, it was essentially a greenfield site, wasn't it? It was just a lawn, there was a couple of apple trees and a couple of buddleia in there. So I remember being in there on my interview and walking around with Stephen and Helene and straight away we're kind of close to the N72 here. We're between Lismore and Cap-A-Quinn, so it's a busy road running between us, but then the house is kind of in front. It's blocking the way down to the road when you're in the cutting guard, and then we have a stable behind us and there's a wall adjoining the two. So straight away, feel the noise, reduce the um, the wind drops down. You know, it's a special little area in there. So I'd always had in my mind to kind of do something, something in that area, and beforehand it was just a bit of a an awkward thoroughfare. There was a door in the wall, um, and that was about it, you know. So, um, yeah, I spoke to the owners after I'd been here a year or two and I'd always said to them that that would make a great area for, you know, either a potager it's close enough to the house for them if they wanted to do some vegetables or fruit or anything like that. Or the one I was always pushing was the cutting garden. You know it's something that always I wouldn't say always, but I I certainly um had had intentions of doing something along those lines and I love herbaceous plant and you know it's. I find it's this real reward and you get great um value. So, yeah, so once, once they agreed to that, um, we kind of started.
Speaker 2:Uh, I did quite a lot of designs. I went through them in the. We kind of started. I did quite a lot of designs, I went through them in the talk as well and I kind of explain a lot. When you're doing designs in big areas like this, if you answer the basic infrastructure questions, then it does some of the design work for you. You know, instead of just having this big blank page, if you can get a structure or the bones, bones of a design onto a page and it takes some of the pressure off and opens up other avenues as you go.
Speaker 2:So, um, yeah, when was it now? It was the year before last. We actually started the work on it. You know, I went down and pegged everything out and things like that. Um sprayed off the grass, dug it off, and then I suppose it was just it's. I probably could have got it all done realistically, and I would have liked to got it all done in the space of about three, four months.
Speaker 2:But, um, there was issues with contractors um, letting me down or saying that they were going to do something and then never appearing or not doing the work or it wasn't quite right, or things like that. So, um, eventually I had to change the contractors and, as you said, there was a deadline. There was one of the sons was getting married on the estate here and I wanted this to be the focal point of the wedding. So I remember Neil Porteous saying to me all you need to meet a deadline is a plan and not enough time. That's one that always sticks with me. Saying to me all you need to meet a deadline is a plan and not enough time. You know that's. That's one that always sticks with me. So I'm a nightmare for writing down lists the whole time and trying to make everything work and numbering and to get it all in order and that like. So it was going through that and then eventually, you know, we did get the the hard landscaping side of things organized.
Speaker 2:And then the planting. Um, yeah, the planting was great, like I really enjoyed doing a huge area like that. Um, dahlias we we planted. I think we had 28 varieties of dahlia. Um, there was loads of salvias. I put in as well that Nachtflinder. What's the other one? Hotlips is another one as well. So, yeah, it was good.
Speaker 2:I had a chat with the owners about the color scheme. So, again, that's another decision taken out of my hand. I find the more decisions you can get somebody else to make, the easier your life becomes. You know so, um, like I said in the talk as well, one thing that I I consciously made an effort with was reduce the number of varieties that I grew in there. Um, I had a lot of stuff I've designed before. It just looks like somebody got a bag of smarties and threw them on the table. You know, there's no, no rhyme, the reason to it. So it's sometimes better to, you know, instead of going through the catalog and oh, I like that, I like that, I like that, go through and mark all the ones that you like and then mark a couple that you really really, really like and like. I think I was planting 65, 70 of that verbena. Uh, bampton, you know so straight away.
Speaker 1:That's, that's a character plant of that area yeah, and that that was one major feature of your talk was for being a bampton in in full flower and the, the concept of it, drawing up along the pathways, that and and it worked really brilliantly.
Speaker 1:And you mentioned something there at the start just in relation to how the structure sort of can do the design for you if you allow for what you need to put in there. And I guess in in this scenario, what you're talking about was there was the one opening and you wanted to create kind of walkways through and then you know they were the original, I suppose, forming of what were the beds and you had to offset them because they weren't in in, they weren't symmetrical as such. Yeah, um, but that's a good tip for for people at home as well, if they're looking to create something like a cutting garden. Is, you know, is there an area that that you're trying to lead somebody through? Uh, get your pats in there and and have that as the step one of creating, or where you create your cutting garden? I guess is it yeah, yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 2:I mean again, um, we're very blessed here to have space and um things like that. But in a smaller garden, you know, you could just section off an area and go, right, that's where I'm going to produce, cut, cut flowers, you know, and um, put the infrastructure in, get all the hard work done first, not the hard work, but you know the stuff which the infrastructure in. Get all the hard work done first, not the hard work, but you know the stuff which would disturb, because there's no point putting down beds and then having to dig them up to put back down paths and then put your beds back down over them. You know, so it's, if you can, if you can get a good plan that you're happy with and stick to that, then you know you, you know the direction you're going in, so it just makes your life a bit easier.
Speaker 1:Yeah for sure um you you mentioned for being abandoned. There was also one or two other sort of hero plants that you mentioned during your talk. Is can you just give us a lift? I know you said was there 20 something varieties of dahlias.
Speaker 2:So 28, 28 varieties. Yeah, so we've put in a few more of this year as well, just as an experiment. You know it's. It's a great thing about herbaceous plantains you can play around with it the whole time. Um, so, yeah, verbena bampton, we had quite a lot of geraniums in there as well. Um, geranium silo stemming, I think, has been it's, it's already in flower now. It's looking fantastic at this time year. So it's a species. It's very strong again. Like the banton, it kind of falls out onto the path. That's, that's the style I love, you know, this kind of full feel to the beds. Um, what else was there as well now? Oh, the pheopsis, the? Um, the small little pinhead, uh, pink flower that actually looks exactly like, um, what we call sticky willies and scotland cleavers, I think, over here.
Speaker 1:Oh yeah.
Speaker 2:Like that in flower, in leaf. Sorry, but they've got these lovely little pom-pom-shaped, tiny little about the size of a golf ball and it's absolutely covered in them. The pollinators absolutely adore it as well. Like I mentioned, the dahlia is, I think, the best one. It's actually in flower now. I cut one yesterday. It's one called salmon runner and, um, like I said, as a cutting garden you have to think about how these plants perform as as cut flowers like, and the stem on this one is. It's over a foot long and it is it's like a bit of iron in your hand, you know you can swing your hand around and this thing doesn't bend at all. It's as fantastic as a cut flower.
Speaker 2:Uh, as we had quite a lot of roses, we planted in steve and he, he likes roses, so I went up to robert and got quite a lot. I think gartry check jekyll is probably one of the best ones. It's a brilliant rose, isn't it? Yeah, absolutely love it. Or actually I'm growing one because it's it's a big area. We I'm actually growing one called blush noisette, which is technically a climber, but I'm growing it as a shrub just in the back of a border. So you know it's it's fairly vigorous. But if it leans down on the shoulder of another plant I'm not too bothered, like it's kind of up the back and out of the way, you know I don't know that.
Speaker 1:Now, color wise, what? What color is it?
Speaker 2:kind of very, very pale pink. It's kind of semi-double flower on it. Um yeah, it's just a real nice one, like it's worth worth looking up yeah, brilliant.
Speaker 1:Uh, just going off track here, you mentioned uh during your talk that at one point in time there was a contractor to put in paths and you were going away on a, on a sort of a plant finding trip with with some of your horticultural buddies and, uh, the plan was, when you came back, all these paths were to be done, and they weren't, but just to hone in on the kind of plant finding trip. Or you know, I know you've done a few of these. So where did you go? What was the? What did you find? What was yeah.
Speaker 2:So yeah, the one last year was Southwest China, a region called Yunnan. So anybody who knows any plants Yonanensis, you have the rhododendron Yonanensis. There's a lot of stuff named Yonanensis. What's the other one? The other name has gone out of my head, but you know, yonanensis obviously refers to Yunnan, so it's in the southwest of China.
Speaker 2:We were in an area that bordered Tibet. We went over for just under three weeks and it was great. This is the third trip that I'd been on similar to this before that. So we went to the very eastern edge of the Himalayas. That time, and I think three years ago, I went to the very western end of the Himalayas in northwest India, where it borders Afghanistan, a place called Ladakh, but Yunnan.
Speaker 2:It was fantastic because when we were in Ladakh it was very high altitude desert plants we were looking at, so there wasn't a great deal. I think there was a rose there, a rose of Webiana that we saw an awful lot of, and I know Seamus up in Kilmakurra grows that but other than that we didn't see anything really transferable. Whereas as soon as we landed into lijiang is the, the city we went into like straight away as soon as we drove out of there. You're seeing viburnums, you're seeing um rhododendrons galore, pinuses, um yeah, loads and loads of stuff. So it's just. I find that just it's awe-inspiring to go out into nature and see these plants that you're used to seeing in gardens and in their natural habitat, and how they behave and interact with each other, I think, is where I get a real buzz out of it, you know.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and is this you know when you go to these places, is it to see what could translate back here, or is it just you know, from a heart, cultural interest, that you like to see these in their natural habitats, or what's the kind of the drive here?
Speaker 2:Yeah, like to see these in their, in their natural habitats or what's the kind of the drive here? Yeah, a bit of both, like travel as well, as this is a great love of mine um, so it kind of mixes, mixes them together, like you know. But, um, certainly, in the deck and uh, parts of the trip to china, you know, we actually went over what's called the doker la, which was over 4 000 meters, and we were actually stepped into tibet, um, so at those kind of altitudes you're not really seeing a great deal. That's going to be you're able to grow here because it's really really sharply drained. Um, but on the way up there, you know, we went through different uh vegetative um layers all the way up, you know. So we started the kind of subtropical up to the temperate and then up to the alpine and then to the very high alpine stuff. So I mean, you know we we saw an awful lot of things. I actually, since I got back, I ordered a few of the rhododendrons that we saw. There are some sanguiniums.
Speaker 2:I'm keeping an eye out for a few more um so yeah you and going back to things that you see, one thing that I saw there that I fell in love with an awful lot of was um, the phylicterum deleviae growing next to a hypericum forestii, and when they're in flower together, I thought that was one of the nicest plant combinations you'll ever see. So one thing I've actually ordered some. I planted a load of hypericum there last year and I just got hold of some phylicterum earlier this year, so I'm just going to intermingle them and that's exactly how it was in your nan, you know. So you can transfer these things into it and I have a few pictures of looking up over to the docker that and you have. And there was rhododendron um wardii. Uh, rhododendron primula, florum sang sanguinium, and then burgini is in there and I think there was a mechanopsis as well. You know this complete, just it was. It was great, I absolutely loved it.
Speaker 1:But you can almost pick and choose any combination within that and it would work yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, nice to you know, like to take a photograph like that to then transfer it okay, it's not exactly the same, but to try and transfer it across here and replicate it and using something that you've seen, I suppose, in in the wild out there.
Speaker 2:So it's, yeah, it's it's yeah, yeah, and even on a more basic level as well, it's not even just the combinations, but I mean, beth chatto was a great uh proponent of you know right plant in the right place. So if you can go to where a plant originates from and see what it's growing, how it's growing, then you have a better understanding of it straight away, what kind of conditions it needs.
Speaker 1:Yeah, what you'll need to do then to make it work Exactly. Yeah, for sure, any future trips planned?
Speaker 2:Not at the moment. No, we have an eight-month-old at home, so all the current travel plans are further than Waterford City or need to be bypassed. No, nothing, nothing. I have a few, few bubbling away in the background. I'd like to kind of push on, maybe in a year or so as time, but nothing, nothing too too pressing at the moment.
Speaker 1:Anyway yeah, yeah, well, the eight-year-olds will keep you, will keep you close to base for a while and you know for sure, or eight month old, should I say. Um, so, in terms of salter bridge going over the next couple of years. So you've mentioned, you know, some of the things that you're working on. What is there? Is there kind of plans in place over the next kind of 12 months, 18 months that are ongoing? I know the the cutting garden was sort of the last big, big project, but what's on the cards over the next little while?
Speaker 2:uh, well, we're putting in a lake, oh wow. So now I'm entirely stepping back from the, the the contractor side of things and then the the contractor here is going to do all all the actual physical digging work and stuff. But I mean I'm going to have a huge lake that I'll need planting up relatively soon. So it's going to be it's good, that's going to be really great fun. I think, like you know, this is one thing that the estate is missing is water, running water, going through. So that's that's going to be great fun.
Speaker 2:Doing that um other than that um, what was the other thing? Oh yeah, up in, up in the walled garden. I think I'm going to start focusing a little bit more on as well your your talk was very good as well, john about um growing fruit and veg. I always, because I'm from an ornamental background, I always um put fruit and veg at the very bottom of my priorities, if I'm perfectly honest with you. So it's kind of giving me a bit of a kick to kind of knock it higher up on the list of priorities. So I'm dedicating a day or so a week to kind of spending a bit of time. We do have quite a big veg patch up above in the wall of garden. So it's something I'm looking to maybe expand and even start an orchard up there, as well as on on the cards and the fruit cage. I think we're going to upgrade, hopefully over the autumn, into the winter as well, so the next year now we can get get going with the proper set up there.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's funny, the ornamental garden, from my point of view, probably gets put on the back burner because, again, limited time and I just do what, what works for me, which is at the moment just growing fruit and vegetables, yeah, and obviously have a huge interest in the ornamental side, but not to the same detail in terms of plants. You know the names of plants. I kind of don't focus too much on it's how it looks, um, but again, over time I'd like to have more time to focus on that part of it.
Speaker 2:But you know, again, small children like yourself, you just focus on what you can at this point in time, but yeah, yeah, I'm focusing on that at the moment because, because I'm paid to be here, our own garden at home is taking a severe backseat.
Speaker 1:It's a very bottom of every priority at the moment yeah, well, that was a question, but I think we'll skip on past that. Then if it's uh, no, we'll get into it anyway. So just your own garden, then what? Like? Obviously time wise small children, their job is gardening. It's probably hard enough to reach on your own garden, or what? What do you do at home? What have you? You're probably collecting plants, I guess.
Speaker 2:Anyway, I'd probably the um plants I collect or or get or propagate or stuff. I actually put them all back into the garden. I usually do that sort of stuff to give away as gifts. Um, I know mike white at mount congreve is the one who installed that kind of thought process into me. If you can give somebody a plan, you have a connection straight away. There's two gardens. We've made a connection and you know two people as well through that one plant, um, and also, it's the best way to keep a plan is if you give it away. If your one dies, then you you can always go back and get cuttings or divisions off of that one.
Speaker 2:Um, yeah, we're going back to our own garden. Um, when we first started, there was just my myself and my wife and dog. So we, I put in quite a I wouldn't say huge, but a big enough herbaceous, and I I do have a few bits and pieces that I put into it, um, so it was kind of broken into two sides and then we have a big lawn in there as well. And, yeah, I suppose it's very, a wee bit tough because, like, we nevermind our child, but when I got it all planted up and we had a great maybe three, four months out of it, but we're absolutely plagued with deer around here, and so we fenced off the main garden up here around the main house, which is grand, but now they're coming down to ours for their dinner, like you know.
Speaker 2:So right, kind of enthusiasm for it kind of wanes a little bit when as you said you're up here working all day, you go home, you break your back for another few hours and then a deer hops over the fence and just starts munching on your annabelle's like you know it, kind of uh yeah, just to drive on with.
Speaker 2:It has gone a little bit. So it's, I know I I try. I got a saturday there a while ago and I did kind of start getting back into it a wee bit. So I think that we're going to look at maybe putting some of the chestnut paling fence around it or something to try and keep the deer out a wee bit and keep Bonnie, our daughter, in as well. So it's a double, double effect. So, yeah, it's just, at the moment it is a bit hard, if I'm honest, like and when I say hard I mean impossible to get out there and do stuff. You know, because by the time you sit down it's it's almost eight o'clock.
Speaker 1:And the last thing you want to do is get back your work gear and go back outside. And yeah, no, for sure it's. It's when you're when you're small children. As I say, that's, that's the case here. The garden definitely gets put on the back burner and I just do the essentials and I suppose it's no different than than a lot of people you know at this stage, I suppose, and hopefully over time, over time, you'll get the time to to focus on your own you mentioned to get all right we've been at like, yeah, that's a good start that's a good start.
Speaker 2:That's how you get any enthusiasm for a garden yeah it's good, isn't?
Speaker 1:it. Yeah, um, you mentioned a couple things there that are interesting. You, you mentioned um at the very, very start. You mentioned that your, your granddad, was, you know, quite a good gardener. You mentioned fruit.
Speaker 1:Um, it's, it's strange because, well, it's not strange, it's, it's, it's, it's very obvious when, when you, when you take it in the context of just the last couple of minutes of our conversation, loads of people that I've had on the podcast over the last few years have got their garden inspiration from their grandparents, and I guess I'd never thought about it this way, but I guess the last conversation we just had, for as a parent, you just don't have the time for necessarily in the early stages, and it's it's not until later on that that somebody gets the time, but it is a brilliant connection.
Speaker 1:Is that connection to grandparents through gardening? It it's uh, it seems to be a thread that is with a lot of horticultural people that come on the podcasts. So that that was interesting. And and also what you mentioned about gifting plants, especially plants that you propagated yourself, and again, that thread has always been all the time through the podcast, where plants are linked back to grandparents gardens or parents gardens and, as you said, it's a brilliant gift because it keeps that connection both between the gardens and the people. That will last you know after you know after somebody has passed on or whatever.
Speaker 2:So yeah, yeah, well, going back to the grandparents and parents, I think that if my dad told me to weed, it was a chore, whereas if my granddad did it it was a bit of crack, you know yeah, yeah, it's amazing.
Speaker 1:A bit of context, uh, a bit a bit of space between it is is good yeah you mentioned your dad then as well, you were saying, um, he would be two weeks on, two weeks off. Was he on the oil rigs?
Speaker 2:just yeah, he was working on their own. To be honest with you, the veg patch was a wee bit of an afterthought, I think, when they, when they bought the house, they had a veg patch and he kind of grudgingly brought it forward and kept it yeah, yeah. It was stubbornness, more than anything kept it going. But I do remember God. Do you remember those old orange rotovators?
Speaker 1:Oh yeah, the big Howards.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, it was about seven or eight. You were getting thrown around this cage with one of them like it was pretty fun at the time. But you know, and he had a 1947 massey ferguson tractor as well, like so yeah around with that sort of stuff. Those, howards.
Speaker 1:I've a real bad memory of those howards, the very first one that I ever come across. I was um in a garden and I was asked to start it and it had one of the winder starters on it and I I had never used one before. I would have seen things wound up to be started. But this one, you know the way they're supposed. On the handle they're supposed to have a sleeve that that turns. Yeah, when it kicks back the, the sleeve turns in your hand and not the actual handle. But the sleeve was gone off it and I gave it a good wind and then it kicked back and it wrenched all the skin off the palm of my hand. That was my very first memory of those Howard Rotovators.
Speaker 2:Well, I am a gardener, but the reason my brother isn't is. My dad rigged up some device to one of our lawnmowers, where you started it with a uh, a drill, you put a socket on the top of it, so that meant that there was a um a bolt spinning around on the top of this thing in the garden. My brother ripped his hand to pieces when he was doing that one day, like so, yeah, luckily I dodged that one and carried on gardening yeah for sure.
Speaker 1:Um, your your current role. Obviously it's uh exciting. You have, as we said, you have that bit of autonomy to sort of put your own stamp on things to a certain extent or bring your own ideas forward, you know, to be approved or otherwise. And yeah, it's nice to have, you know, that sort of autonomy on me. The, the gardens themselves. They're not open gardens per se, but I know that you can kind of open by appointment and various things.
Speaker 2:So maybe tell us a little bit about that yeah, absolutely, um, certainly this year we've been I wouldn't say busy with tours or anything like that, but we've had more in this year, um, than we have since I started here. So well, I would say, like you said, it's open for groups and tours. You know, I'd say a minimum uh, 15 people to to get in. Really, um, but, yeah, uh, by appointment. My email address, I'm sure you can put it in the link to show, or not yet for sure, yeah, yeah, just get in touch and look we can arrange something.
Speaker 2:But I would like it depends on your interest, to be honest, like there's an awful lot here to see, so you won't see it all in one shot, you know. So if you wanted to come in the spring, early spring, see the magnolias, come in the late spring and see the rhododendrons, and then you know the the cotton garden from kind of now on, I think I was up there today. It's looking really well at the minute and it's only going to get better yeah, for sure.
Speaker 1:And uh, I know you're doing, you're doing some talks. You've done, obviously, buds and Blossoms. You recently, or not too long ago, did one for Robert down in Altamount Any more on the horizon that people should look out for.
Speaker 2:I am doing one in Lismore Centre. What is it now? September, I think it is call them. They do an autumn programme of talks, but that's going to be on the trip to Yunnan, so I think that's the only other one I have lined up. I think the Waterford Garden Plant Society were here at the weekend. They've asked me to do a talk for them next year at some point. But yeah, if anybody does want to talk, just let me know again.
Speaker 1:Yeah, for sure, and for anyone that wasn't, at Buds and Blossoms, it was a fantastic, fantastic talk. To actually see the journey from, uh, as you say, greenfield site to full cutting garden and then the mention of all the really good cutting plants that were in there cut flower plants that were in there was you know it was. It was really good to see that transformation. So, yeah, it was a brilliant talk, brilliant talk on the day and, uh, yeah, today has been really, really interesting episode and thank you very, very much for coming on.
Speaker 2:Master, my garden podcast thanks for having me, john, it's a pleasure so that's been this week's episode.
Speaker 1:A huge thanks to colin from coming on. Uh, as I said that the talk at buds and blossoms was fascinating. I know it's a talk that he's delivered before I think maybe for rhsi in the past, but keep an eye out because I'm sure it will come up again. It's, um, there's some brilliant plant choices in it, some that I wouldn't have necessarily thought of, some that I wouldn't have come across before as well, but all of them suitable for for cut flowers. So if you are thinking of creating a good flower garden and definitely, definitely, that's worth checking out if you do have gardening groups I know that a lot of gardening clubs listen to the podcast. Any of you guys want to visit salter bridge, just contact colin. I'll put the the email in the show notes. Just send an email and let them know the details and and I'm sure it'll be a garden well worth seeing. And that's been this week's episode. Thanks for listening and until the next time, happy gardening, thank you.