U.S. Phenomenon with Mario Magaña
Welcome to "U.S. Phenomenon" with Mario Magaña, a riveting podcast that dives deep into the unexplained and the extraordinary. Join Mario, the host as he explores the most intriguing paranormal events, alien encounters, and mysterious sightings across the United States. With his unique blend of real-life experience and passion for the unexplained, Mario brings you thrilling stories and expert insights in every episode. Whether it's alien abductions, ghostly apparitions, or cryptozoological creatures, Mario's engaging storytelling will captivate and keep you on the edge of your seat. Tune in to "U.S. Phenomenon" and embark on a journey into the unknown that will have you questioning everything you thought you knew.
U.S. Phenomenon with Mario Magaña
Unveiling Project 2025: Conspiracy Theories and Political Shifts in America
What happens when political landscapes shift, unexpected alliances form, and conspiracy theories gain traction? We explore these provocative questions in our latest episode of US Phenomenon. With the guidance of Mark Jacobson, acclaimed author of "Pale Horse Rider," we dive into the eerie and intriguing world of Project 2025 and its potential to reshape the US federal government. We peel back the layers of the Democratic Party's recent struggles, examining the mysterious absence of 20 million votes following President Trump's re-election. Could this be a sign of deeper systemic changes on the horizon?
Seattle's urban political environment offers a surprising backdrop to this narrative, with unexpected support for figures traditionally outside the mainstream. We take a hard look at how social media is redefining political narratives and discuss the rise of "alternative facts" in shaping public perception. Mark Jacobson brings his deep knowledge of conspiracy theories to the table, linking today's digital age myths with historical figures like William Cooper and Alex Jones. As we tackle the tension between individualism and potential authoritarianism, we ponder what these shifts mean for freedom and governance in America.
In a reflection on legacy, we revisit Bill Cooper's predictions and influence, particularly how his ideas resonate with today's political climate. From discussions on the John Birch Society to the Heritage Foundation's controversial Project 2025, we consider how these elements intertwine with Cooper's enduring influence. As we move towards the future, the emphasis is on fostering a growth mindset, encouraging listeners to prioritize self-improvement and community strength. Tune in for a thought-provoking journey through America's complex and ever-evolving political landscape.
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Welcome to US Phenomenon, where possibilities are endless. Put down those same old headlines. It's time to expand your mind and question what if? From paranormal activity to UFOs, bigfoot sightings and unsolved mysteries, this is US Phenomenon?
Speaker 2:From the Pacific Northwest in the shadow of the 1962 World's Fair, the Space Needle. This is US Phenomenon and I am your host, mario Magano, where we explore the extraordinary and the unexplained. Tonight we're going to go someplace that has been Googled in the last couple of weeks, significantly getting a large google share of uh in trending uh. Tonight we're going to talk all things project 2025. Now, if you want, you ask what the hell is project 2025? Well, we're going to get into that and what it could look like for you and look like for all of us. I mean, what? Who am I kidding? This is not just just about you. This is about all of us and how that could play out for us.
Speaker 2:Um, so our guest this evening needs no introduction. He's an? Uh, an east coast uh journalist, an author who wrote a book about william cooper titled pale horse rider. The hip-hop community is in love with this folk tale of an individual. Now, since he's no longer with us, um, the author of pale horse rider, uh, mark jacobson. You can find him at pale horse rider book. It is my pleasure to welcome back to us phenomenon mark jacobson. Welcome back to the show man hey, mario, what's up?
Speaker 2:you know, I mean, let's see here, I don't look too bad here, do I know?
Speaker 2:I mean, well, let's see okay so I'm an old guy and, like I just got up, so you know, I mean, look, it's, it's nighttime and I'm sorry to have to wake you at on the east coast time. You know, for those who are listening to us on the on the east, for who may be listening to us on the east coast, hey, look, you're great for radio because no one can see your face. But if you'd like to watch the podcast, no, I absolutely don't.
Speaker 3:You can go and watch it, listen to it, you can watch it. You can watch us, uh, either uh go to youtube and see the sad news anytime I walk man.
Speaker 2:So, uh, in today's society, the world looks like we have uh re-elected a person who won in 2026, uh, 2016. Excuse me, um, but this time it looks like he won hands down. I mean, not like the Hillary Clinton 2016 type election, but it looks like it was like to be honest with you, kind of an ass whooping. I mean, it looks like we're missing some. I don't know, I don't want to get into the we're missing votes type situation, but it looks like there was enormous amount of individuals that may have not gone out to the polls and voted. So, uh, here we are in the world today where, um, president-elect trump is moving forward with his uh administration, with a transition of power, a peaceful transition of power. Look, this is going to be interesting for those who have been Googling Project 2025, also been trending, as well as a Google search how the hell to get the hell out of the country?
Speaker 3:Yeah, I know, I saw that I mean. The people always say that. You know, I mean they never go, but they always say that.
Speaker 2:I mean look, I mean regardless on what side of the fence you might be on.
Speaker 3:Yeah, like I'm going to, I'm going to sell everything I own and move to a place I don't know anybody Right, and try to. You know, and most of the people that are saying that are over 40. Anyhow, I mean, it's just it's like sour grapes on one, respect and fear in the other.
Speaker 2:You know I I mean when we talk about this and fear, on, on, on levels that might be a little bit more. Well, you know, since I'm in the business of speculation, I mean sometimes it is.
Speaker 3:You're in the business of rabble rousing.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, yeah. Did we get sold some snake oil by somebody who may you know, like I don't know? Do we say we're getting one thing and may get the other? I mean, we know what we're getting. We know that we're going to get four years of.
Speaker 3:I don't think you know what you're getting. I think it could go. It's really kind of like up in the air at this point.
Speaker 2:For those who are. I mean, I don't know. People are speculating on what's going to happen. No, people are speculating on what's going to happen and clearly, project 2025 is a comprehensive restructuring, possibly of the United States federal government.
Speaker 3:Well, let's get into that Before we do get into the 2025 thing. Before we do get into the 2025 thing. Yes, those 20 million votes that didn't show up this time yeah, I mean I am this is, you know, as somebody who didn't really quite buy into the previous edition of this idea that, like you know, the counting was all wrong I don't buy this either. I mean, people didn't show up because of those 20 million votes, like at least 15 million was supposed to go into the Democratic candidate, into that Democratic column, right? Sure, I mean, that's just a simple math. So I think, when you get down to it is the Democrats. They deserve to lose, they deserve to lose.
Speaker 3:It doesn't mean that Trump deserves to win, but they deserve to lose and they lost. Because if you had a business and you were managing it the way the Democratic Party runs their party, you'd be out of business a long time ago and they deserve to be out of business. I mean business and you're managing it the way the democratic party runs their runs their party, you'd be out of business a long time ago and they deserve to be out of business. I mean. I mean, if the thing, if the goal is to win the election. Republicans are really much better at winning elections. I'm governing, which is supposed to be the long-term goal of all this. Well, that's a different story altogether, but when it comes down to winning elections, the democrats are hopeless.
Speaker 3:You know the fact that they win every once in a while is just sort of like you know and think about this.
Speaker 2:I mean not to get into too many of the different, well, I mean, that is my, my role, but think about it. So you get an election. You have an election in 2026, you know, 2016. Uh, trump wins. Now, was that the anti-obama vote? People are like I'm just sick of the whole, like the damn you know it's like. Well, I mean, and not only that, but you send a retread up there to be like the the next. I mean, I'm not hillary clinton. Well, this is all.
Speaker 3:This is all. You know. I mean everybody, I know in the, in the kind of. I live in new york city. You know, um, people are freaked out that donald trump got 29 of the vote. Now 29 of the vote is of loser share, big time loser share, but last time he got 16, he got 29 in the bronx. Now he got eight percent in the bronx. Previously you know that's eight percent of the vote. I could get eight percent of the vote. You know, like um, so now we got 29 of the vote. So what is that about? Does that mean they really want Donald Trump to be the president? I don't know. I mean, it's a kind of. You know, if Oklahoma votes for Donald Trump, well, yeah, okay, oklahoma votes for Donald Trump, they always would vote for Donald Trump.
Speaker 3:But when you have people in your hometown, you know which is the most liberal city in the country. You know I'm not talking about San Francisco. These people are just Martians. I mean, this is a real place, new York City. So, like you know, we've been and actually you know there's a mythic thing about New York where, like you know, they always vote Democratic and it's hopeless, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. But if you look at the mayors of New York City, giuliani won in 1993, he won in 1997, bloomberg won in 2001,. He won in 2005,. He won in 2009. Now that's five consecutive Republican mayors in the most liberal town in the country. Now that doesn't mean that these people are reflexively going out and pulling the lever for the people that their grandparents voted for. I mean people here. They know how to think. You know they're not like I don't want to say anything that's going to be controversial, but I mean you know people actually think about.
Speaker 3:Come on everything's controversial here, but yeah, I mean, you know I mean, the thing is like you know I'm, that's the thing that's freaking most people I know out is new york city still a liberal city. That's a question, right? So, um, that's a real question, sure, so so?
Speaker 2:not only just New York, but Seattle. I mean to be honest with you, we were grabbing breakfast, my daughter and I, yesterday In proper Seattle. I am seeing MAGA hats, look, do you? I don't care, but to me very shocking to be in Seattle. I'm like whoa, don't make America in Seattle. I'm like whoa, that's a don't worry, you know, make America great again. I'm like, okay, cool.
Speaker 3:You wouldn't see that here, man, but I mean people go in a voting booth and vote for him, you know.
Speaker 3:So, when you're at home by yourself, if you're somebody, even if this is the town with AOC in it. Right, she managed to win. She got 80% of the vote you know of her. She ran and she got exactly the amount of money, the amount of votes that she usually gets.
Speaker 3:So, you know, it isn't just that people are becoming more conservative, it's just that there's a sea change in what people want are becoming more conservative. It's just that there's a sea change in what people want, and people want what people want in an urban environment as opposed to a suburban or rural environment, if there is any rural parts left of the United States that are really rural. You know, right, you know, these are something that you wake up to and to think about, because if the goal is to keep it at 50% on both sides, so of people constantly screaming at each other, um, this is, this is a little chink in that little uh equation, which is requires some thought and uh, as a kind of like junior pundit not quite on your level, mario but uh, you know, uh, these are the kind of things that you have to think about.
Speaker 2:When you think about it too, the wave of the wall, the blue wall, that did not exist this time in the election for Kamala Harris, I mean, Trump took that away. It's just interesting how much he took. But look, in that whole case, when you start to think about the election, people privately voting and how they want to vote, I'm going to be honest with you If, if Democrats think that they're going to win things, they better start looking at themselves and look at innovation and how they're going to continue to evolve. Because I will tell you, on TikTok, twitter, all these social media platforms look they are. The Republican party was pounding the pavement. Good on them, because they were above the rest. Pounding pavement on social media did them well. Whoever they were using, they were getting a message out. Some of the message may have been, you know, hearsay, may not been true, may have not been false, we don't know, but it was out there. I mean it's, you know, it's all speculated out there. That's, that's the most important right, right.
Speaker 3:So whether or not it's true or false is no longer a primary concern, but I mean the fact that it's out there and um the idea. Like you know carrie, what's her name? The woman that was, um, what's the one that first said alternative facts, that blonde haired woman that Trump was Trump's guy person in the beginning. Yeah, but the when she mentioned that thing about there were facts and there were alternative facts, and the idea that you could choose between the two of them. I mean that's a triumphant, I mean there's no doubt that that's the case. So you know, then, facts, the idea of facts. You know that that was a, that was a kind of uh, that was owned by the establishment. We're going to establish the facts. Um, so people rebelled against that because they didn't necessarily Was that Kellyanne Conway?
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah. So, like you know, I'm not saying this is bad or good. Sure, I don't really have a At this point, I don't really have a horse in the race. You know, in a lot of ways I'm just looking at what's happening and the trending is towards personal narrative and it's obvious that Donald Trump is a guy with a lot of personal narrative, as opposed to the Democrats who are pushing this kind of like ancient I mean what happened in the last election, the one from last month, or this month, I guess is that that's the last gasp, the final little kind of breath of the New Deal.
Speaker 3:The Democrats have been riding on this ever since 1932, ever since Franklin Delano Roosevelt, they have been depending on the idea of this kind of entitlement for every citizen that came up during the Depression. Now and Joe Biden was the last one of these guys that was still in the Senate I'm talking about Hubert Humphrey, Robert, not Robert Kennedy, Jack Kennedy, you know, Lyndon Johnson all those people were children of the New Deal, and now there are no women left. So unless they come up with some new narrative, they're going to keep on losing.
Speaker 2:Our guest tonight, Mark Jacobson, the author of Pale Horse Rider, the book about william cooper. Um I I gotta wonder sometimes as I sit here I also wrote some other books yeah, yeah, yeah, but this is this one's going to be the one that's going to be telling, because you definitely have a bunch of other books. We'll definitely link them in the podcast, but that's okay.
Speaker 2:That's okay, I mean you know well, I mean, this is the one that one is good with me this, this one, this is the one that I think takes the cake, because when you start to think about, like the alex joneses of the world right and, and like his whole, you know his whole shtick, how the q anon became to be the q, and it's interesting because the evolution I was like during that pandemic time you saw this uprise in conspiracies that were like almost a little too. Now, if you haven't read the book, behold the Pale Horse, one would be like if you have, you're like you turn your head a little bit and you're like I've heard this before and then for me it was like oh yeah, it's in the book.
Speaker 3:Well, bill Cooper Bill Cooper was, you know. He was a person who was in the right place at the right time, with the right mentality to be able to kind of see this People talk about him as a prophet. He's a this, he's a that, and a lot of people real big Cooper, bill Cooper fans hate this book because I actually did it as a journalist. I shinned, I actually found out what really happened.
Speaker 3:So, as opposed to buying the narrative on all these different things but the narrative is the main here's a guy who goes to Vietnam. He's a military guy, gung-ho goes to Vietnam and he goes there to fight for the Constitution and the American way and all that kind of stuff. And he gets there and you see, these people are fighting for their homes, we're the invaders here. Well, how did we get in this situation? And it just dominates his life after that and he wants to look behind the curtain to see how he who put him in this spot, right, so, and it goes on and on and on through all this different stuff and he, he becomes a I mean, bill cooper's way.
Speaker 3:Bill cooper could be exactly the opposite of a guy like Joe Rogan or Alice Jones, who, alice Jones went to school on Bill Cooper. I mean, he would stay up at night listening to Bill Cooper's broadcasts and his parents would be screaming at him to turn that stuff off, you know. But he'd sit there with his little transistor radio, you know, like if you can remember that such things existed.
Speaker 2:Hour of the. Whatever his radio show. Hour of the time.
Speaker 3:Hour of the time I hate all things.
Speaker 3:Art, bell and alex jones, plus, plus, there's all the rappers who, I mean, there's two editions of bill cooper, there's the book behold a pale horse, and there's the radio show hour of the time. Now, all the all the black people that were bill cooper. There's the book, behold the pale horse. And there's the radio show hour of the time. Now, all the all the black people that were bill cooper fans read the book and they would became every single rapper from the golden age of rap, I would say from about 1988 to 1994. I mean you could debate that if you want, but I would say that that was the best time for rap music. All those people were people that read this Bill Cooper's book, behold the Pale Horse.
Speaker 3:And I remember a famous interview I did with Prodigy, who was from Mobb Deep, and I said is it true that you read Behold the Pale Horse four times? And he said no, man, I read it six times. I said, really, he said you read behold a pale horse four times. He said no, man, I read it six times. He said well, before you get up there and start to talk to the people, you've got to be right and correct, right. So, um, you know this was the truth.
Speaker 3:Uh, as far as it was concerned, and also cooper's book, behold a pale horse was the single most read book in the New York State prison system and across the entire country as well, and it still is, even though the book came out in 1991. People are still reading this book, which has not been changed, until somebody else got a hold of it and shopped out a bunch of the chapters, which is a whole other topic. But you know, and people always come over to me and say what do you think Bill Cooper would think of Donald Trump? Sure, it's a difficult question, because I think that Bill Cooper would not care for somebody who, because he was a big rule of law guy. Yeah, you know, rule of law guy, that's rule of law guy, that's what he was. So you know I don't know.
Speaker 3:I don't know of any president that has such little regard for the rule of law I'm not saying anything bad about it or good about it. I mean, some of these laws are bad, you know. So, um, uh, you know my, my understanding.
Speaker 2:My understanding of uh, bill Bill Cooper was that, you know, don't be a sheep, be a lion, understand what's going on, pay attention to what is going on. The government he was adamant that the government wanted to do some certain things. The secret society was out there, as he would say to you know, possibly get you. As he would say to you know, possibly get you when we talk about this whole, you know, this huge manifesto which is called Project 2025,.
Speaker 2:Our guest this evening, the author of Pale Horse Rider you can find him on Pale Horse at Pale Horse Rider book on Instagram, and we know that what's his name is celebrated his heavenly birthday. I think you uh recently talked about uh. Cooper spent uh celebrating his birthday, or I think it was recently, no, this?
Speaker 3:is death of two days two major two major days in the bill cooper canon. There's his birthday, which is, uh, may 4th, and then 1943, and then there's his death day, which is November 5th 2001. Gotcha, now, the thing about Bill Cooper's death day, which is really the thing that cements his legacy, is that he said they're about to come and get me.
Speaker 3:You know this is a guy who more or less predicted some of 9-11. I mean most people, most people in the bill cooper cult believe that he really predicted 9-11, which is not 100 true, but he did say, several months before actually june 2001, that something big is going to happen in this country, that they're going to blame on osama bin laden, which that really happened right.
Speaker 2:I mean, uh, I believe that was may have been in his radio show, or radio show, yeah, his radio show.
Speaker 3:So like um, you know. So he's got that kind of thing. So, but his great prediction was they're going to come and kill I'm going to come up here. He lives on top of a mountain in uh eager, arizona, which is a kind of little mountain ski resort town, and so, um, and he said to uh, he said on the radio several times that one night they're going to come up here and shoot me dead and I'm going to be dead on my front doorstep. And that's exactly what happened. And he even called the time. He said at midnight and his death time is 12.05. Wow, you know I mean some things.
Speaker 2:The premonition that this man had. You can't argue with that kind of stuff.
Speaker 3:It's just true. You can read the police report. It's right there in black and white. You know, if you believe such a thing, if you're still willing to believe black and white police reports, maybe you've progressed to the point where you think that's all or regressed Right. In any event, let me talk about Project 2025, which I think is a real charade.
Speaker 2:I mean, people are freaked out about it. If you're liberal, you're freaking out right now.
Speaker 3:Well, let's just look at what really it is first. Okay, so Project 2025 was produced by the Heritage Foundation. The Heritage Foundation, that is a complete. They've been putting out these kind of things since 1981, you know for what? The next president who believes a guidebook, for what the next president who might actually go for any of this stuff should do For either party.
Speaker 2:Well, they're a conservative thing For sure Democrats are not going to pick it up, so you?
Speaker 3:know it's for Republican Party things. So the Heritage Foundation I got all this stuff for you here. Heritage Foundation goes back to the 1950s. People had come out of the John burr society and stuff like that. Um and um and then, uh, let's see, let's just see here, hang on a second. I have some actual notes that, in my journalistic way, I have you wrote you wrote something I have actually have done some research.
Speaker 3:I mean, bill Cooper would tell you to do your own research. Now, that is one of the things about Bill Cooper, which, unfortunately, has been abused by his followers, because they believe do your own research means look on the Internet until you find the stuff that you already agree with, and then you say that that's, you did your own research. Look on the internet until you find the stuff that you already agree with, and then you say that that's. You did your gospel.
Speaker 2:Yeah, sure.
Speaker 3:I mean, that's his most famous phrase and you hear it all the time. Do your own research.
Speaker 3:And also he's the inventor of the phrase sheeple. I mean, you know, he was a person. He's the person who, uh, popularized that phrase. So popularize that phrase. So he's the guy.
Speaker 3:So, in any event, what they eventually did, what the Heritage Foundation is, is a kind of think tank that came up out of in the 1960s and 70s, partially as a result of the failure of the extremism of the John Birch Society thing, if people know who that is.
Speaker 3:And they more or less were the architects of the neocon, the nasty neocon thing that all the Trumpers hate. They were the ones that invented the Reagan doctrine, which was all about foreign policy and how to control and not exactly the opposite of American first, exactly the opposite. So they're not Trumpers. And when Trump says that he never heard of it and he's not going to follow it and all that kind of stuff like that, you know he's. You know he's half doing that Donald Trump thing of like, you know forgetting, or like not including the part that he knows is true or false. But on the other hand, he's he's telling the truth because these people are basically his enemies in the beginning. These people are basically his enemies in the beginning. What Trump did. His undying achievement that nobody can take away from him is he overthrew the Illuminati, if you want to call it that, cabal, as seen by the Bush administrations, the Bush people, those kind of aristocratic.
Speaker 2:Secret society.
Speaker 3:Yeah, all that stuff, the skull and bone stuff, all that stuff that people still think is functional because they don't bother to do their own research, so, like you know. But Trump did in 2016 when he looked at jeb bush and said, oh, you've got pretty low energy, aren't you man? I mean, that was it. They were finished at that point. Right, and I'm going to give donald trump credit for that forever and ever. You know he is the winner in that situation and those people deserve to go, man. You, you know, they really did. I mean George Bush Jr, george Bush Sr the first. When he walks into a supermarket just for election thing, you know and he sees the poor cashier is making $2 an hour whatever it was at the minimum wage at that time scanning the products and he's's going what's that? Because he never had ever gone to a supermarket by himself.
Speaker 2:So out of touch, I mean, like those are not really the kind of people you want to vote for.
Speaker 3:Right, right, I mean, they're not like you, but but.
Speaker 2:But they did. They did and, and, and some very large numbers, obviously, and not as large as the COVID election, but they did. They voted for. Someone who may be out of touch in regards to when was the last time. Well, that's not true, because you saw him put French fries in a thing and did the whole ops and make that.
Speaker 3:Yeah, but the thing is, Trump is just.
Speaker 2:It's a great. He's a new kind of character.
Speaker 3:He's just he's a new kind of character. He's just he's a modern-day showman.
Speaker 2:He's a modern-day elect. He's a showman. Like him, or love him, or hate him, however you want to. Yeah, I mean he.
Speaker 3:Let's not get thrown off.
Speaker 2:Let's go to the history of 2025 first, then we can go back to sure.
Speaker 3:for sure, thanks, yeah so, in other words, um so they did the reagan doctrine. They were behind the neocons. They were the ones that came that were pushing the bush administration conservative, the reagan conservative christian in the 80s.
Speaker 2:This was this was a part of that.
Speaker 3:That well, the, the Christian stuff comes later, because these people are like they've had money for years and years. They're old money people, okay. So they're the ones that were pushing for the Iraq invasion, the Afghanistan array, all these things that the Trump people are against. These people were for, you know, and when Trump first came around in 2016, the head of the Heritage Foundation said that he was a clown and it was like ridiculous that he would even be running. So, you know, donald Trump has got an ear for people that insult him, so he remembers that kind of stuff. So, as the Heritage Foundation is now with all, they were the biggest single think tank and the most funded think tank in Washington. So they're in a situation like, say, 2017, when Trump's in that they're about to go out of business, right, you know, they're in trouble, right. So they come up with the you know. So they've been putting out these reports since 1981 about what the president should do to make a more conservative society. So then they get new leadership.
Speaker 3:This guy Roberts I think I can remember his name, um, and he's more hip to these kind of things. So he comes up with this thing, which is, you know, much more trump oriented, and then they leak it out and it becomes this huge democratic party talking point, because there's stuff in there that is completely objectionable to most people, like the anti-abortion stuff, the kind of like over-the-top attack on wokeism, which is just a whole other issue, you know, and stuff like all that Christian nation stuff and all that stuff that Trump treads on because he wants votes, because he wants votes, but he doesn't believe in any of that. I don't think. You know that people might think that he has, because he gets shot and he manages to live, that God's on his side. But I would contend that there's a whole other section of supernatural powers around here that protect people and get them what they want, and it's called you can go read Faust and check it out, you know.
Speaker 3:So. You know it doesn't mean just because he lives and people shoot at him and he seems to win all the time, that he is necessarily favored by Jesus Christ. You know he could be favored by that guy with the horns and the funny tail, you know so which you know? Prove it to me. That's not true, okay, so, and then? So you got this kind of thing. So I think they put out this thing and the democrats are you saying so?
Speaker 2:it was more of a modified version of of the project 2025, taking out and kind of twisting it to be more like a donald trump.
Speaker 3:Uh, doctor trying to get in the game. You know, yeah, they're trying. They're trying to catch up, right, this heritage foundation thing. They're trying to catch up. I'm completely positive. This is true. I mean prove. I mean you know I could be wrong, but I mean, looking at, it seems to me like here's a whole power center of these never trumper types who realize that they are back in the wrong horse, that donald trump is going to be the winner and they want a piece of the pie sure so.
Speaker 3:So the the thing comes out. I don't mean to step on your whole premise here. The thing comes out. The democrats are the ones that publicize it, because it's got stuff in there that like not not only is it this kind of Christian nationalist stuff that most people you know, who believe in the separation of church and state are not going to be that crazy about, which I think is probably I don't know, maybe I'm just completely wrong about that, but I think a lot of people find that objectionable, you know. So.
Speaker 2:There should be, there should be, there should be. You know separation of church and state, but go ahead.
Speaker 3:Well, so there's stuff in this thing that Trump would never in a million years go for Like they want to. They want to outlaw pornography. It's in the project 2025 outlaw pornography. Do you realize what that would do? Do you realize?
Speaker 2:how much money we're going to lose. There are a bunch of 25, 54-year-olds listening to the radio right now and saying what?
Speaker 3:I mean, do you really think that a country that's willing to put gambling advertisements on every single sporting event is going to outlaw something which is an addictive practice like pornography? The whole country runs on addiction. You know that is Mark Jacobson. The whole country runs on addiction. I'll stand by that statement.
Speaker 2:We need to make T-shirts for that.
Speaker 3:This is every single thing that happens. You know, in the Trump world I mean, I'm not a big fan of William Burroughs, but you know he predicted everything is permitted. You know everything is permitted, so, like now, everything which was bad is now good. You should gamble on everything. You should spend all your time and effort thinking about whether all the parlays you're going to make on these different college football teams that you don't even care about. You know so like you don't even know and never heard of them until yesterday. But now you want to make a bet on it and that's all you care about.
Speaker 2:Southeast Oklahoma University versus, you know, USC. Whatever the case may be, yeah.
Speaker 3:Well, I mean, there's a whole. I mean I could write a big, gigantic essay about this and maybe I will, but what it is is the abuse of the American ideal of the individual. In other words, you want to sell this individualism thing, the idea that you can make up your mind and do what you want and the government can't tell you what to do, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. But you want to control what that individual does. You want to make them feel like they have free will, but actually, through propaganda and addictive behavior and all that kind of stuff, you are being able to pull the strings. Just the way you know, people used to think that the other Illuminatis used to pull the strings. Just the way you know, people used to think that the other, the other Illuminati's, used to pull the strings.
Speaker 3:So who are the string pullers in this particular incarnation of this kind of thing? I would submit that you know they don't care. There's no such thing as a curtain anymore. It's all out in the open. I mean, you know, guys, you know the people. Most people will say well, elon Musk is really running the government.
Speaker 3:And you know there's a case to be made there. So you know. The fact is, you need to. You need to look at this kind of stuff and go real and really look behind the curtain, which is not the curtain that we grew up to believe, like the QAnon curtain, which is not the curtain that we grew up to believe, like the QAnon curtain, it's just a different kind of curtain that's going to enable this kind of government to get in. And I'm not saying that it's wrong, because it seems like people are willing to vote for authority figures. They want authority figures. They want somebody to tell them what to do figures. They want authority figures. They want somebody to tell them what to do. And so these are the less free, the less choice, the less confusing. Choice is going to be better, and I can't really argue with that, because life is a confusing thing. But when you think about it, I mean think about it.
Speaker 2:I can't imagine that one person who is of of from this country, who loves the united states, isn't about freedom it's about freedom, freedom, freedom is the key issue.
Speaker 3:Yeah, freedom is a key issue, but it's not necessarily you have to.
Speaker 2:But at what cost?
Speaker 3:that's the phrase that's the phrase that people need to think about a lot. What is exactly freedom? What does that mean, you know? What does that mean to you? What does that mean to a larger construct like the united states of america, which probably in my particular view, probably shouldn't should cease to exist? You know, in a way as at least have some fundamental change, because you know you have stuff like I go to the polls to vote for president, you know, yeah, I don't want to vote for either one of these fuckers, you know. So, like you know, but I feel like, um, you know, I'm from Queens, right, donald Trump is from Queens. I know him, you know.
Speaker 3:I'm not voting for him Right, so like, um, you know, and um so, but I don't want to vote for her, so, but I so want to vote for her, so, but I, so I vote for her. And I, and even that I know, because I live in new york state, which is a democratic state, that my vote means nothing. So how does that, how does that indicate that I'm a free person, at least in terms of electoral policy? And a lot of people feel like they, and that's the reason why you get 20 million people not show up.
Speaker 2:Disenfranchised. I think that for those who and this is where I get to do the you know, the speculation and and and just kind of go over what, what, what is actually put down pen to paper or type vertically or virtually to paper of what this project might look like, what the Heritage Foundation might try to get an administration to do, and is it to give him, you know, to consolidate, are we looking for the United States government to consolidate executive power and promote conservative policies initiatives, spearheading by, you know, by by this heritage foundation, that would basically essentially give, you know, I don't think, the heritage foundation has got a got an oar in the water man.
Speaker 3:You know, I think that there are yesterday's papers. You know when you're. You think anybody that that that is like you know lives in some kind of place like outside of Washington or in Georgetown or has old money, wants Matt Gaetz to be the attorney general. I mean, come on, that is just not. Donald Trump is way past there. You know these little kind of like you know bureaucratic ideas. He doesn't care about that, you know or what about like it remains to be seen.
Speaker 3:I'm willing to entertain at this moment something I wouldn't entertain, say, when we made that last broadcast with mike right right, that this might actually be. Who knows, maybe it'll be better, you know, maybe it will be better. You know, maybe this authoritarian idea will actually improve the life of of people. I doubt it, but it might. I'm willing to. I'm willing to wait and see what happens are we going to see?
Speaker 2:are we going to see, a smaller, consolidated government? Are we going to see the? You know the, you know the, the ways of you know, abolishing the department of education, as, as everyone is talking about? Are we going to?
Speaker 3:see something. Do you think that's a good idea, mary?
Speaker 2:I mean no, I'm not by any means. I mean that's dumb, because we got to think of, regardless of what side of the fence you're on, we need american children to grow up to be smart individuals and you're going to need some uh, it's not you know, maybe they're going to put some uh, someone in the department of education to you know, incentivize teachers. Who knows how that looks for?
Speaker 3:you think that's really possible in this? I mean, when you had betsy devos already, you know they're probably gonna get somebody more to the right than her, I mean, which is almost impossible. Um, you know so like, um, you know the edge. They want to abolish this, the uh department of education. Maybe that's a good idea. You know that could be a good idea, because I mean, right, you know it's interesting I mean, what about?
Speaker 3:somebody like myself. I am a states writer, now, right, I mean, when I grew up, states rights meant george wallace standing in the door not letting black people into school, so therefore I was against states rights. But now, when it seems like the federal government is going to be more authoritarian and more to the right than my particular taste, while New York State is messed up as it is with this moron government we have might turn out to be just because of the people who live here, might be a much more conducive place for me to live. So therefore I'd rather go by those laws than the laws that are going to be passed by the Congress.
Speaker 2:I mean, are we going to see a more authoritarian FCC coming down on some of these big broadcast companies for the way they report on, you know, on the news? Are we going to see something like that? To me that seems that we are not the party of freedom. This to me seems like a restrictive party, a party that has moved away from some certain values like freedom.
Speaker 3:Are you talking about the Republicans?
Speaker 2:Yes.
Speaker 3:Well, I think it's already happened. I mean, it's already happened, you already see it. You, you know they fractured and they, you know the niche marketing of the internet is a is a sea change. You know that donald trump is. The internet is the devil. I mean he realizes that you go on, joe rogan. You don't have beyonce on your show. You, I mean you go on, joe Rogan. You talk to the people that you can actually influence on a one-to-one level. You don't put on like you know.
Speaker 3:I mean why, would Kamala Harris run exactly the same campaign that Hillary Clinton did, when she's already lost? What's the point? Of that.
Speaker 2:Why would you do a thing like that? And even for her case she should have went on, joe rogan, if joe said he invited her to come on and they said, no, it's not like joe. I mean, let's, let's be, let's be honest. I can't imagine joe rogan's gonna sit there and go after her. I think he would have probably had a normal conversation with her and they, and and because what everyone is saying is the substance was a little bit lacking of of you know, he was probably going to ask her some interesting questions that were probably substance based and he probably they probably couldn't come to an agreement. He said, hey, let's have a conversation. It's the same thing I do on the show. I'm not going to send 25 questions to an author or someone like. I'm not prescripting it. It's not going to go down that way.
Speaker 3:And that was just a failure of her ability to be able to sing on her feet but think about all the free press that they got for that podcast you know well, trump is an entertainer. He's a front man for uh and good on him for world oligarchy.
Speaker 3:As far you know why. We see a good big picture, the mega picture. Right, you know trump and guys like orban and putin and those kind of guys like that they're called. They're people that are called, uh, irredentists. You know, not to get too hard or academic about it. Irredentists are people like every single one of trump's natural allies in the world stays right now as it represents a country that used to be an empire the Russian Empire, the Austrian-Hungarian Empire, the conservative that's in Italy, the Roman Empire, all these people that feel like, you know, yesterday was better than today. Now we've got this shitty little country, erdogan. He's another guy.
Speaker 3:The Ottoman Empire used to extend from the Caspian Sea all the way into the middle of Europe. You know you don't think. Those people still think about those days. Now, maybe we can get that back, you know. So Trump's idea of make America great again, which is, you know it worked Did you ever ask anybody what that meant? No, what is this time with that? America was so great back during the segregation times when they were like lynching people. And what are they talking?
Speaker 2:about the Reagan days. That's got to be the Reagan days. Right, it's got to be the Reagan days Minus the economy and all that he's been running on this for the past.
Speaker 3:You know 16. What's his 24? Eight years he's been putting out these hats. It would be nice if you actually knew what it meant before you put it on your head, right?
Speaker 2:so I mean, look, as you said, whatever the substance was, it stuck. Whatever was the substance in the in the go.
Speaker 3:That's all that matters now right.
Speaker 2:I mean essentially. I mean when you start to think about it, I mean I, I don't know man, I just going back through the entire thing, it's just an interesting turn of events. If you're, if you're a democrat, you know that's just how the ball, the cookie crumbles. And I know a lot of people were pretty. We're probably distraught. I mean, obviously the the trends of things went up and look, being in the conspiracy, you know to be in the in the business of conspiracies and all you know bigfoots and ufos, I think you're.
Speaker 3:I think you're in trouble, mario. No, I think your conspiracy business is in trouble why? I think it's because you already won, you know. I mean it's like you know you need the leftist, the so-called leftist to be in power to to enable your product. I'm not. I love you, mario, and I hope you succeed in every way shape form, but I mean the thing is that like there's a certain kind of thing of a market product that it's like it needs a certain kind of environment to be able to survive.
Speaker 2:Here's what I'm going to say, and we will continue to survive, but I'm going to tell you why Because we were sold. We may have been sold ketchup popsicles with white gloves. Okay, we were wearing the white gloves and they sold us ketchup popsicles. If this in fact goes the way of a huge movement in this Project 2025, restrictive of rights, I mean what the courts are not going to take your gun rights away, right?
Speaker 3:That's not going away. You know I'm going to predict that if these guys stay in power and they consolidate their power, you're going to start to see some restrictions on gun rights, because the existing power does not want people running around with guns. That's the reason why, you know, there's no guns in china. People are stabbing each other like crazy, but they don't have any guns because the power there is completely there. There it's a totalitarian system but what so?
Speaker 2:what does that?
Speaker 3:want.
Speaker 2:The people have guns what's that do to a? You know a, a red american whose gold blood is all all american. America, first god and country, and I have my gun, you know what I mean. Like what happens to that individual times change.
Speaker 3:I mean, you know you're gonna have to, like you know, if you want to support I'm not saying this is gonna happen, I'm really not making a prediction here at all but I mean the thing is like if, if nobody would dispute, I think the fact that, like you know, this is a more, or, you know, depending on like you know, this is a more, or, you know, depending on what your definition of this word is a more, the coming time is going to be a more authoritative time and you've got the executive officer, you know, telling you that he's going to make these appointments which are likely to be unpopular, even with him controlling both houses of the Congress, that he's going to do it during the recess because he doesn't want anybody to say anything bad about it. That's a kind of like I'd say that's sort of authoritarian. So, like you know, if that's the way it's going to be and people are going to buy into it, then eventually they're going to say it's not going to be too long before gun rights. I mean the reason why let me refresh people's memory if they ever can think about this the reason why California has such liberal I mean conservative, I guess gun rights.
Speaker 3:You know that it's difficult to get a gun in California as opposed to some other states is because the Black Panthers showed up at one of these trials and Jonathan Jackson or something like that, and they were exerting their Second Amendment rights to have guns. And once Ronald Reagan, who was the governor of the state at the time, got a look at that, he said, well, we got to do something about that and they put in a bunch of gun laws. So you know, there's going to be something like that. It's going to be something like that and then the government is going to be upset about it and they're going to start telling you that you can't this and that you know, maybe not conceal carry is a bad idea.
Speaker 2:No more open carry.
Speaker 3:Yeah, you know like well, open carry is bizarre to me to begin with. You know, you go to the supermarket and a lady who's, like you know, 40, an 80-year-old lady has got a little raspberry-handled gun.
Speaker 2:You know, 40 an 80 year old lady has got a little raspberry handled gun. You know that seems like wow, this is I mean I just told the story coming from where I'm coming from.
Speaker 2:It seems weird you know, I mean, you know, I mean, I mean, I just told the story. I just told the story last week, uh on the on the show, uh, and made a clip on uh on the youtubers uh page that when I was in Chipotle guy didn't want to wear his mask, which is fine, you do what you want to do and he was. This is during the pandemic. He was open carrying. Well, I'm in Chipotle line waiting to have. You know, I want a bowl of Chipotle, right, and my dad would probably be pissed if he heard this right now.
Speaker 2:But so we're in Chipotle and the guy has his gun. He has his open, his open carry, and I can see it, and the guy next to him is like flailing his arms, doing his thing. I'm like this guy doesn't see anything that's going on right now, oblivious to the guy, but he goes like this he puts his hand on his gun to protect it. He orders his food. I laugh. I'm like, well, if this is going to be the way I go out, I'm going to have hot sauce all over me, but I'm going out with a bowl of Chipotle dinner. So, to get back on the topic, people should be freaked out if they're going to start revoking rights. I mean we're talking about, hey, you want to know, it's like you know.
Speaker 3:I mean I mean it's gonna be some pushback I mean, I mean, this is gonna be pushback which there always right, but even like how that pushback is going to manifest itself is not yet determined, and the people that are currently in charge of the pushback are completely incompetent at that. So you're going to need some different people to run that pushback and we're going to have to see what happens, and I think about maybe year two or something like that of the second Trump administration. It'll happen because it inevitably happens. The reason why Biden ran again is because they couldn't believe they didn't lose seats in 2022. You know they're going, wow, fantastic, we didn't lose seats. So, um, you know, let's, let's just. You know they were stupid enough to go with the status quo, so, um, they didn't know the guy was a blithering idiot. So, uh, you know, but, um, you know, but you know they made a mistake and it was a grievous mistake. So you know, I mean it's going to happen.
Speaker 3:Trump is going to get less popular than he is now, and then how is that unpopularity going to manifest itself? And who is going to attempt to move into that void of power that Trump is now holding, because his power base is going to shrink? It's inevitable. I mean, if it's not inevitable, that means that you've got some kind of like Mussolini-type people running around telling people that they better think this way, which is not really where we're at yet, thank God, and I don't believe that's ever going to happen. I'm a loyal American. I don't believe that's ever going to happen. I'm a loyal American. I don't think that's going to happen.
Speaker 2:I mean for the sake of my business, anything's possible, right. I mean you could see mass deportation. This might be the most, this could be the most aggressive stance on immigration that could possibly take place a mass deportation.
Speaker 3:Well, mario, I can tell by the last syllable of your name, the last letter of your name, that you have an immigrant background. I can tell that A lot of people feel that way. Sure, I'm a second-generation American.
Speaker 2:America is a great place that you can go from the old country to producing some beatnik like myself in one generation, so like you know um yeah, I mean born in interesting, born in Seattle, lived here my entire life, you know yeah, but you, you, you know that, you know you have another life before them well, I mean, I mean, there are, there have been social media posts that I've seen that have said certain things that we only voted for, for, for trump, for, you know, for racial reasons, I mean, I, I, I, it was quite interesting to see.
Speaker 2:Uh, if I can find it again, I'll send it your direction, but it was, it was pretty astonishing. Look, regardless of how this is going to play out, uh, this could this, this could be, we could have been, you could have been sold something that may not work. You want a refund? You, you'll have a chance you may want to refund there's no refund, but you might want one. You might want one, I mean, if you're going to start losing your rights and this is where I want to go.
Speaker 3:Donald trump is a guy who doesn't even pay people that work for him. You think he's going to give you a refund on that?
Speaker 2:I? I probably not, but here. Here's what I want to get to before as we, before we wrap these, this whole show up here. If bill cooper was alive, what the hell do you think he would have said about 2025, project 2025 and I think he would say it was a lot of restriction of american rights.
Speaker 3:You know, I think that's what he would think. I would hope that's. You know, I'm a bill cooper fan. You know I recognize that he has a lot of shortcomings, but I'm basically I wouldn't have written a book about him if I didn't think he was basically somebody who was interesting enough to write a book about.
Speaker 2:So you know, I would hope that he would feel that way and I think he would, because you know he would be going against the grain and say look, wake up, Are you doing your research?
Speaker 3:Some people are just naturally contrarian, you know, and I think he's probably one of those kind of people. But yeah, I don't, I will go to my grave believing that somebody like Bill Cooper. I will go to my grave believing that somebody like Bill Cooper, who puts a lot of uh, you know, um, emphasis on thinking for yourself and, like you know, seeing through the bullshit and all that kind of stuff, At least this is the ideal case of him, would think that, like man, it's more than me, See, I hear I mean, come on, let's, let's not just buy all this stuff. You know, just because you're a fan of Barstool Sports doesn't mean that you definitely should vote for this guy. I mean, give me a break. I mean, the whole bro culture is really kind of a little disturbing to me, man. I mean, that's the Vance world.
Speaker 3:That's.
Speaker 2:Vance world.
Speaker 3:The right-wing technocrats who are basically running this show here. Um, they, you know, they're thinking that donald trump's gonna die in a couple years. I mean, how many cheeseburgers can a guy eat? And then, um, and he'll croak, and then they'll make him into this great mar and hero. And then their guy you know, mr Vance will rise up with his little beard, you know, and he'll, you know. Just, you know, then you might worry about the Project 2025 thing, because Donald Trump doesn't listen to what's in a book. He does whatever he wants to do. So and he's more power to him. You know, a lot of pricks wanted to be the president of the united states. He's the only one that managed to get it right. So you gotta hand it to the guy, you know.
Speaker 2:So the guy that went against the world.
Speaker 3:For that you know. But um, there aren't many people like that. He's a, he's a sui generis person, as they say.
Speaker 2:You know, and um, there just aren't very many people like that it's interesting, someone who spent most of his time as a uh known for spending a lot of time with democrats and and then taking, you know, a stance and uh flipping to a party that uh welcomed him in to um becoming the, the, the, the the new face of of the republican party, and well, take a look at, take a look at, go back and you know if you're in the moves.
Speaker 3:Take a look at 2012, when donald trump first comes out with the birther thing, which is the beginning of donald trump as a plan, as as a serious political candidate, as strange as it may seem. Um, the Republican Party, after losing with Mitt Romney and John McCain, began to realize that they can't run these kind of middle-of-the-road, old-school Republican guys like you know Mitt Romney, you know one of the things that killed him was that he was the head of Bain Capital. You know, the worst kind of people, you know. Then everybody hated those kind of people, you know, because they were the ones that seemed to be exactly the kind of people that all the conspiracy people would hate.
Speaker 3:Right, the controllers of capital, these kind of deep capitalist system guys you know, really calling the shots from behind the, from behind closed doors and stuff like that. So they had a meeting the Republican Party and they began to figure out, like how can we build a candidate who is going to be able to win elections? Look it up, I mean, it's not far away, you can find it easily and they decided, stupidly enough, that they would become more kind of like egalitarian, they would come up with something which was like you know, they put more black people in all that kind of stuff. That was their idea, which was about the stupidest thing if you want to win elections. So when donald trump comes along and he's got a completely different agenda and he wins, they go. We never thought that. We never thought that.
Speaker 2:He wanted to drain the swamp. I mean, let's Drain the swamp.
Speaker 3:That is also another one of these bullshit things. You want to get rid of everybody who knows anything about their job. Right, that's what you want to do. That doesn't sound like a really. If you ran a business, would you fire every single person who actually had been knew something about their job?
Speaker 2:if I'm trying to be a dictator, yes. If I'm trying to be a dictator and they're not a loyalist, then yes, that's what we would do. That's what you do, right I?
Speaker 3:agree with exactly what you just said. So you know, put that in your pipe and smoke it, because the thing is that like um, but yeah, you don't want to like is that really where you want? To live.
Speaker 2:You know, I mean you want these people to have power over you well, I'm that's and that hence the reason why we have to do the show. I mean it's got to be put out there. I mean we got to think for ourselves.
Speaker 3:We need to remember. You might be, you know, after this you might turn into like you know this left-wing show, who knows?
Speaker 2:I mean, who knows?
Speaker 3:I mean who knows, who knows?
Speaker 2:But we're always, I think, the biggest thing, regardless on who wins the election someone has, who knows who won.
Speaker 3:Well, I mean right.
Speaker 2:In future elections. I think it's always not always sexy, but it's good to talk about what could possibly be one of the most. I mean right now is the biggest thing right now 2020, 2025 project. This is the thing that everyone's Googling and searching. We got to talk about it.
Speaker 3:You know it's not like, well, I mean, I think people want to look at it. I think they should look up the history of the Heritage Foundation which began. Which is the author of this particular document? Which Trump I mean? The reason why the Democrats were harping on it is because there were so many people that were the authors of this document that used to work in the Trump administration. But the fact of the matter is the Trump administration between 2016 and 2020 and the more Steve Bannon-oriented 2024 victory.
Speaker 2:It's a different thing well, sure, I mean, think about it if you're, if you're a liberal, if you're a liberal, lgbt, plus uh rights, that could be uh an issue for you. Abortion access, um, I mean how?
Speaker 3:do you know? Those are all losing issues, right? That's what's been demonstrated.
Speaker 2:Well, you know, I mean, in any case, a party that we, we I like to call the party of freedom, which isn't as we, we like to say, is no longer what the party is, but it to me, it just makes me say, hey look, guys, just remember, remember what we were sold, so that we know in the future. Do your research, know what's going on, because you know what. I'm not always buying the bullshit that's being put to paper or spewed on the internet, because everything now is speculation. I spend more time researching and looking at stuff and I'm like, man, was that real? Was that ai? What did I just get fed?
Speaker 3:I think that's main question. That's something you really got to think about, because now I mean everybody who's really upset about being abducted by aliens, you know stuff like that. You're being abducted by aliens on a daily basis, right? I mean that was last year, I mean that was a couple weeks.
Speaker 2:That was a show we just did recently, but, yeah, uaps is a thing. Is that a distraction? Did recently? But, yeah, uap's is a thing. Is that a distraction? Are we seeing a distraction? Is that a distraction? Is that hearing that hearing was already meant to matt, that hearing was already happening, regardless on who was elected, who was going to be the elect, the person elected to sit in the, the future house of the, you know the presidency. So, regardless, it's not like some conspiracy saying, oh they're, it's, this is a distraction for blah, blah, blah, blah. What's really? Let's, let's be, let's be honest. The distraction was mike tyson fight. That was.
Speaker 3:That was that see, I used to be a huge boxing fan and I would go to fights all the time and I just completely lost interest in this thing and this was this. I didn't even pay attention to that. I mean the idea that you got a 60 year old guy fighting with a guy fighting against a youtube star and you know how you take that seriously on 60 million people not only is he a youtube star, but he's a former I really want to live in. I mean he's.
Speaker 2:He's not even. He's also a former disney star too. It's just interesting to me and my daughter and I, we we were a low mark. That was a low very much a low mark. But you know what? It was cool to see that my daughter and I were. She was like I hope mike tyson just pounds him and I'm like we'll see.
Speaker 2:But you know, I mean like you're gonna root for, you're gonna root for a convicted rapist right, you know over this guy just because he's more real right, but I think I think that this is something that america has come to see at least, this is what I observed is I think america has forgotten what is today. What was yesterday's headline, is not today's news because clearly, none of that was even brought up at all. None of that was brought up, mark I mean. I mean that really just shows how we've become as a society, on how people think it's an addictive it's an addictive society it's an addict.
Speaker 2:Give you another hit, we'll give you another hit.
Speaker 3:That is it man, it's just let me give you that TV show does.
Speaker 3:Well, what do they say? It's addictive. Like you know, I'm telling you right, it's a society of addicts and um and that, that kind of like. When you tap, when you tap into that, you become like Trump and his guys and and the Democrats too, I mean, they're all sacklers. They're all sacklers. They're all people that are betting on the fact that people are going to keep on doing what they do habitually and they're not going to be looking around because all they care about is the next fix.
Speaker 3:So that's the downside of being a junkie. You know, it kind of narrows your vision.
Speaker 2:But if you get the tunnel, tunnel vision, it's all about you. It's not about about you and getting and getting high man.
Speaker 3:You know you're talking about talk to a long time pothead, you know. But so you know um right I don't know you know, I just feel like it's going to be interesting to see what happens, because society goes on a long time. I mean, for instance, I was looking up um this idea. I saw an article in today's new york times.
Speaker 2:Pardon the expression the women are giving up men oh, the 4b movement, yeah, yeah, they're gonna give up okay that that's gonna be fantastic for the future.
Speaker 3:Right, no reproduction. That was the first.
Speaker 2:That was the first thing I said. I was like why would you do that if you're if you're, if you're a liberal, why would you do that? In fact, maybe you should have more.
Speaker 3:You're not a liberal you're not a liberal, because that's one another thing which is really too bad is that the term liberal has been so demonized in this society that, um, you know, if you admit that you're, that, you're a person, a liberal person, who is willing to entertain, which really means you're willing to entertain all different kinds of ideas, you know it is not necessarily that you're like, gonna be like andrea dworkin or uh, you know, whatever bad demons people think of liberals.
Speaker 3:You know, um, it's just one of these terms that gets, gets demonized, and then people hate it.
Speaker 2:So whoever is a part of the 4b movement. I mean, I don't know, man, I I'm all about, do your thing. Uh, I don't know that, that's that.
Speaker 3:You know that, do your thing luckily, there are only about 20 of these people. I don't know, they're there, I think they're, I think they're.
Speaker 2:they are probably larger numbers out there. Although I'm not seeing them on the dating sites, I'm still getting dates.
Speaker 3:So that's a good sign. Well, I mean look, I'm not married. I'm not married.
Speaker 2:I'm not married, mark. I want to settle down. I want to have someone to hang out with, want to have you know, someone to hang out with and you know, to be able to grow old with and you know just, you know these, these people are off, are off the radar for you, but for sure they're not going to be available, you know I mean, every single one of them is really fantastic looking
Speaker 3:I'm, oh, I'm sure, I'm sure they're just I mean at times at risk, at risk of saying something that you shouldn't say ah, ah, yeah, well, yeah, but I mean a bro culture. The incel culture is a victor.
Speaker 2:It really seems to be that. I don't know. It's not even a Gen X thing, I think it's more of a that bro culture, is that new? I don't even want to say names, man, but it is out there big time right now.
Speaker 3:Bro, culture, I mean's it's on tv have you ever seen so much sports on tv, have you and you know? Have you ever seen any of this kind of stuff?
Speaker 2:mark, I'll tell you why you're seeing all the tv stuff, all the stuff because everything it's so it's cheap. I mean to you know, to produce this stuff it is cheap. I mean, look at radio stations across the country right now are laying people off. Maybe it's because they're going to go to state radio and we just don't know yet.
Speaker 3:But but well, I mean, how can you be against? You know, npr is really boring. What would npr be like if it was actually interesting?
Speaker 2:I mean, but what? The show's not being run on npr, that's for sure, because they will not take the show I wouldn't take the show, but the thing is that they've, you know, some better npr might take your show so like you know, uh, the idea is that you just have to break out of these boxes that they put you in.
Speaker 3:This is the main idea of the society right now. To put you in a stupid little box that's been self-determined of like I'm not going to be in that box, so I better be in this one, you know?
Speaker 2:and if you're not going to really be really willing to think for yourself or, like, do your own research in an actual comprehensive way, as opposed to being lazy and stupid about this sort of stuff, you know like, well, yeah, it looks to me like, uh, right well, yeah, whatever the commies are bad you know right well it could be anybody, it could be any of them, it could be any of us, that, that that could be in that emperor, uh, in that piece I mean, look, take resistance, baby resist, and that's what right we're gonna need it, resist the contemporary order of things and acknowledge the fact.
Speaker 3:I mean, I was getting these texts from people like you know. Trump is a winner, right? So these people, all they can do is complain. I said do you see anything happening that's good in the future? Or you just want to bitch about the past? And then nobody has anything to say. Yeah, to bitch about the past, and then then, then nobody has anything to say, yeah, they suddenly, they suddenly, their, their channel suddenly goes blank when you're asking about, like you know what do you? What kind of society? I know what you hate. Tell me what you like.
Speaker 3:You know, like, um, you know, or tell me like a better future, a better tomorrow as opposed to a more miserable yesterday. You know, and then, and all the things that you're bitching about and griping about, just take that off the table and see what's left. All right, you know, do that for me, and then I'll, then I'll start listening to you more. You know, because I'm just, I got it memorized all the gripes, all the grievances. I got it memorized all the gripes, all the grievances, all the stuff that people hate. You know that this is the reason why I'm not doing better in this world. Never look at me. It's always somebody else's fault.
Speaker 2:That's their own downfall. Why don't?
Speaker 3:we just get rid of that. That would be good.
Speaker 2:That's their own downfall for being that, you know, small-minded. You know you've got to think outside the box. You got to be a thinker. You got to be ingenuitive, you got to recreate yourself. You got to continue to grow Growth mindset. Ladies and gentlemen, you got to have growth mindset, and I kid about that piece.
Speaker 2:But in regards to do what's best for you, whatever that might be, I don't know, maybe it's read a book. You know, do something with yourself and and don't, if you're upset with the election, then make sure you you get involved. Do something that would better off for your party. I don't know what that might be, but I'll tell you right now I'm going to continue to be a free thinker. I'm going to continue to do as many shows as I possibly can and if I see something that I think that needs to be sniffed out, we're going to continue to talk about it, regardless if it's good, bad ugly, maybe it's sexy, maybe it's a whole, maybe we're doing the 2020. You know, we're going to do the prediction show coming up and we're going to have Michael Parker back on and for God knows.
Speaker 3:I'm bringing. I want to see Mike. Come on, Mike.
Speaker 2:We want you back. Come, um, he's coming. He's coming. I know he'll come back on, but but think I'm gonna. I gotta give you some doomsday scenarios, maybe they'll. You know, things are gonna change, are we gonna? Who knows? I I mean, we'll have some fun with it. But again, if you're part of the what is that culture? Everyone gets a uh, you know one of these uh, participation awards. I don't remember getting those back in the day when we did you gotta get rid of that shit.
Speaker 3:I mean, there's, like you know it's like.
Speaker 2:I mean, I think about it, I have some honest competition here?
Speaker 3:sure, there was none of that there was.
Speaker 2:There was none of that back in the day, man, there was none of that. When you, you did field day, there was like you did field day, you, there was like you did field day and you got one, first, second and third place.
Speaker 3:There's some kind of community. One of the things that's very important, I think, and people are not thinking about it, is like how do you build a better community? What are the things that people have in common that you can begin to, you know, find some identity in yourself from others, you know, as opposed to this crazy fucking American ideal, which is not really an American ideal of this individual I stand alone. Nobody tells me what to do. I mean great. I mean you want to doom yourself to ignorance? Go ahead, right ahead. I mean the past is mean. You want to doom yourself to ignorance? Go ahead, right ahead. I mean the past is of no interest to you. You know I don't care about it. You know that's yesterday. When did that happen? You know who cares? That stuff is just, it's wrong, it's just not human.
Speaker 2:Well, I think we're going to see more of the. I think the kid gloves are coming off. I think we're going to be able to walk without wearing a balloon anymore. You're going to start to see that. If, if, if, if what you're seeing is a trend in the bro culture, you're going to see a lot of the, the politically correct stuff that we've seen in the last, you know, 15 years, 12 years. Uh, I think that's going to. You're going to see a lot of that change.
Speaker 3:You're going to, if they want us if they want to just be part of their own little carass there. You can keep on telling people that you're never speaking to them if you use the wrong pronoun, but you know more power to them.
Speaker 2:I don't want to talk to them, so, like you, know, look, everyone, everybody's got to give a little bit, sure, sure, I think you're seeing a lot of that too, mark. You're seeing a lot of that. Our guest this evening, uh, mark jabrielson. Uh, author, journalist. Uh, you can find him at uh on instagram, at pale horde writer book. We'll have him linked in the podcast. Um, as we wrap things up, from the pacific northwest and all the way on the east side of the country, on the east coast, one coast to the net, from one coast to the next oh yeah, from one coast I'm gonna give me cease and assist you're to get me a cease
Speaker 3:and assist. You're going to get me a cease and assist letter from those guys?
Speaker 2:Really, no, I don't give a.
Speaker 3:You know what? I still long to hear you in the Intro In the art bell chair.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you know, maybe one day, maybe one day it will.
Speaker 3:Actually on another topic.
Speaker 2:Did you see?
Speaker 3:this thing on Netflix, I think about the Manhattan alien abduction case. Yeah, actually, you know, I actually personally, my wife and I saw that. We happened to be walking underneath by the Brooklyn Bridge and we saw that saucer. Oh, that's right, we did. We saw that woman, carol Rain rainey, who supposedly she's married. She was married to bud hopkins, right, I mean, she called me on the phone because I had written about seeing this right thing. You know, whatever it was right and um, it was weird man.
Speaker 3:It's very weird. It doesn't seem like a very good show, but I haven't watched it. To me, it's interesting.
Speaker 2:You think the guy who does this, this show, would would show, would be like knee deep into all that stuff. But to be honest with you, if it ain't headlines and I'm not seeing it and I'm not doing my own research on it I'm not watching it. I mean, I did watch the. There are some that I'll watch, like the Bill Cooper thing, and my daughter and I were like why is there seven episodes of Bill Cooper? He hijacked a plane. It didn't take very long. Why is this db, db, cooper?
Speaker 3:yeah, db cooper yeah bill db cooper.
Speaker 2:Sorry, thank you, um, please. Yeah, not. Yeah, he didn't skyjacket play, but anyhow we when we were watching the db cooper thing it was like way drawn out. It should have been maybe, maybe an hour and a half, maybe an hour episode, but it was a, you know, a six-part series or four-part series and my daughter's like um, this is way too long.
Speaker 3:I just you know it's way too long. Yeah, she's like it's way too long she goes.
Speaker 2:Well, this is, she goes. And it's dumb, she she is. She is a believer that, um, I forget the uh, not uh, db cooper was. I forget the guy's name who hijacked the plane in san francisco uh, mccoy. Uh, uh, his name was mccoy or something like that. Um, but my daughter's, like that, was bill cooper or william or db cooper, not bill cooper man. I get all the coopers all messed up and they're not related, by the way. Right, so, db cooper, obviously, but um mark, interesting to think, with this whole ufo thing being so trendy right now, you know, and you know it's always.
Speaker 3:It never goes out of style, man. Come on, man ec come on, I mean never will, never will until until it's proven one way or the other, and it'll never be I I mean you know us us doing shows on it.
Speaker 2:It was perfect timing.
Speaker 3:Because it's fun.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's always fun, I mean that's real, actual speculation. I mean that was a great start. I mean for sure.
Speaker 3:It involves actual thought and thinking about the space of the universe, you know, as opposed to these little kind of and the propaganda is, you know, I mean propaganda is a bad thing. So, like you know, let's just talk about a topic, that's yeah, fine, I'm just different.
Speaker 2:It, just it changes the narrative. It gives you something to think about. That's not the last you know headline news of what's been going on and takes you out that escape from reality. Uh, yeah, you know, I mean I. I will say this when we're on the radio, when we're on the radio show in in seattle on 570, our flagship station, kbi, it is an honor to be that art bell flanks at 9 pm and then we go on at 10 so art leads the art, leads the move and then hands the baton to to us at 10 pm we are going to use the haywire bell.
Speaker 3:Oh, I know he does, that was his but.
Speaker 2:But he also had this thing for for uh ag to alex jones later on he was like call him a kind of a yeah people don't like competition. Yeah, well, I mean hence the reason why you know good on george and those guys over there. They do a good job. I mean, they do what they do they've asked me on a few times.
Speaker 3:I'm just trying to go on here's what I will say.
Speaker 2:There's plenty of space for everybody to be where they need to be. I'm in my lane, they're in their lane. They do what they do.
Speaker 2:I do what I do maybe it's not you know, I mean, and that's how it just plays out. But I will tell you this in 2025, it is my goal. I've made it very, very clearly that we will be on more radio stations in 2025, moving forward. That is the plan, that is the goal, and maybe we'll be on tv. It will be a lot harder, it will be the makeup on?
Speaker 2:oh no oh man, come on right, you can put you in the. I will tell you, this tv is much harder to do because, producing wise what we've done, I'll have to go back. I would have to go back and and edit some and most of those you know of our conversation, not for the F-bombs, for the explicit content, but you know what I mean. If you watch Game Day or you know Pat McAfee I mean, but we're on terrestrial radio so it changes it and same with you know. Well, I mean Game Day is not on normal TV so you don't see that in all the cable network stuff. So that's why you've seen a lot of these F-bombs and things like that getting passed through because it's like F-bombs. You go back and you know you'll watch some of this Pat McAfee stuff. Man, it's kind of funny.
Speaker 3:I try not to watch people that wear life beaters on TV. Yeah, kind of funny where they're like I. I try not to watch people that wear life beaters on tv. Yeah, you know, I mean it is.
Speaker 2:It is right, it is what it is but, he you know when he dresses up for you for college game day. But you're right, it's just a different, you know mentality.
Speaker 3:But that, that was just you know I just, um, you know, I feel like if I'm interested in sports, I want to hear them talk about sports. I don't want to hear him talk about his private life or any of that kind of stuff like that, because it's not interesting to me. So, in any event, it's been great.
Speaker 2:Yeah, as we wrap things up here from the Pacific Northwest and the East Coast of New York, our guest tonight, mark Jacobson, who is a journalist, because you say you're're retired, but journalists never retire I'm not even saying I'm retiring anymore, I'm just you know I accepted the reality that I'm never going to retire right um, unfortunately for
Speaker 2:me we'll have the the links provided below. But again, as um, we say, if, if you're, if you're nervous about the 2025, project 2025, and it's coming to get you, do your research. That's all we're saying. Just do your research, know the facts, understand. That's all I can say. We'll have some links that we'll provide. If you're too maybe you're not, maybe you need the Cliff Notes version We'll provide that in the podcast so that you, you'll have the podcast.
Speaker 2:uh, cliff notes are us. Yeah, cliff notes are us project. Project 2025 for dummies is going to be available on this phenomenon we're going to write the book.
Speaker 3:Well, that works both ways.
Speaker 2:Yeah, right for my entire team. Uh, I'd like to thank our guest tonight. Thank you, uh, mark, for coming to hang out with us, for our, for my entire team, uh, mark, christopher sofia magana and myself, mario magana. Be sure to look up at the sky, because you never know what you might see. Good night.
