U.S. Phenomenon with Mario Magaña
Welcome to "U.S. Phenomenon" with Mario Magaña, a riveting podcast that dives deep into the unexplained and the extraordinary. Join Mario, the host as he explores the most intriguing paranormal events, alien encounters, and mysterious sightings across the United States. With his unique blend of real-life experience and passion for the unexplained, Mario brings you thrilling stories and expert insights in every episode. Whether it's alien abductions, ghostly apparitions, or cryptozoological creatures, Mario's engaging storytelling will captivate and keep you on the edge of your seat. Tune in to "U.S. Phenomenon" and embark on a journey into the unknown that will have you questioning everything you thought you knew.
U.S. Phenomenon with Mario Magaña
Enduring Love: Navigating Addiction, Infidelity, and Loss in a 57-Year Marriage
What if enduring love could withstand the formidable trials of addiction, infidelity, and personal loss? Join us for a heartfelt conversation with John and Diana Snowden, a couple whose 57-year marriage is a testament to resilience and unwavering commitment. Discover how their journey through the cycles of illusion, disillusion, and joy offers profound insights into navigating the complexities of long-term relationships. From their serendipitous high school meeting to overcoming profound personal challenges, John and Diana's story is a powerful reminder that true love can emerge more robust from adversity.
Throughout our discussion, the Snowdens candidly explore the evolution of their marriage, revealing how communication and faith played pivotal roles in overcoming challenges like alcoholism and depression. They share transformative experiences from marriage encounter programs and spiritual retreats, shedding light on the importance of vulnerability and acceptance in healing and growing together. Diana's battle with depression and John's journey towards overcoming manipulation underscore the couple's determination to confront personal imperfections and embrace change.
As we approach the holiday season, the Snowdens' story resonates with the importance of cherishing family and extending kindness to others. They reflect on the impact of infidelity and the devastating loss of their son, emphasizing self-compassion and spiritual faith as vital components of healing. Their inspiring narrative not only highlights the resilience of love but also serves as an invitation to listeners to reflect on their own relationships and the power of dreams, faith, and support in overcoming life's trials.
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Welcome to US Phenomenon, where possibilities are endless. Put down those same old headlines. It's time to expand your mind and question what if? From paranormal activity to UFOs, bigfoot sightings and unsolved mysteries, this is US Phenomenon?
Speaker 2:From the Pacific Northwest in the shadow of the 1962 World's Fair, the Space Needle. Good evening, good afternoon or good morning, wherever the case may be for you. I am your host, mario Magana, a couple housekeeping things as we get close to ending the year 2024. A big shout out to all you, radio listeners and podcast listeners Thank you so much for making us the top 50th podcast downloaded on our podcasting platform. So thank you, thank you, thank you Again. I'd love to thank our radio stations KGRG, who is, as I recently learned, has lost their broadcasting license. So if you're someone out there who loves to help college radio stations or just a fan of local radio, please send me a text 775-990-5151. We want to make sure we take care of our local radio stations out there.
Speaker 2:So tonight, as we all know that love, sometimes when love hurts, sometimes people run. There is a couple who has endured 50 years and has faced significant challenges, including addiction, infidelity, bankruptcy, separation, and six years ago, a new period of a beginning of the couples developed. A tragic suicide of their younger son was devastating and Diana remarked if we weren't together when our son died, I know we would never have gotten back together. Her insight underscores how shared grief can unexpectedly force deep connections. With five years, I want to say, say, five years, how about five decades of marriage, wisdom the snowdens will share, how to navigate both good, bad times in a relationship. Their journey survives a and is a and is a powerful reminder that love can endure most anything and, I think, most days.
Speaker 2:I think we all would say it's my pleasure to welcome, uh uh, john and diana snowden. Uh, welcome to us. Phenomenon before we. Uh, just real quick. I know that there are couples out here or even single people who are always complaining I can't find somebody. I can't find anybody. So 50 years't find anybody. So 50 years, congratulations to you guys. And I thought it was important to have you guys come on to share your guys' story and journey with me and others who may be going through the hustle and bustle of life right now, with the holidays vastly approaching us work, just all these commitments that we do for our families and things of that nature. So welcome, john and Diane, to the show. Thank you so much for coming to hang out.
Speaker 3:Hello, hello and thank you, Mario.
Speaker 4:Thanks for inviting us on. This is going to be an interesting conversation.
Speaker 2:Well, you know, 50 years ups and downs, how in most relationships nowadays the younger generation don't seem to make it out five years or they get the 20-year itch. I've heard you know good friends of mine saying after 20 years of marriage ending. What do you say to people who are listening right now that are on that cusp?
Speaker 4:Well, my personal view is that the real problem is that nobody has heard of what's called the basic law of life, and that's basic. We have no control over that. I don't have any control over that either.
Speaker 2:No, just keep doing your thing, just keep going, you got it.
Speaker 4:But we first learned of the basic law of life, which goes this way there is an illusion, there's a disillusion and there's joy. And most people go through the illusion stage, but they, when they hit the disillusion which is basic law of life they don't know what to do, so they throw in the towel and they run, and it goes on for years. Some people just stay in the illusion stage. Oh, everything's fine, nothing. We don't ever argue, we never had a harsh word between us, and so they go through the superficial experience without really understanding what it means to be married, and they never hit the joy period. And we, by the way, went through it more than once, which will come out, I'm sure, today how we went through the illusion, the disillusion and the joy and then repeated the cycle. So that's probably one of the main reasons that people don't make it, that's one.
Speaker 2:There's more, but uh sure and when you, when you two lovebirds, first met, how? Where did you guys meet at?
Speaker 4:oh dear, you tell that one Okay.
Speaker 2:It wasn't Facebook, right.
Speaker 3:No, no, no, it wasn't even invented when we were there.
Speaker 2:Sure.
Speaker 3:By the way, it's actually 57 years 57.
Speaker 2:Well, congratulations, that's great.
Speaker 3:I don't know where the time went, but anyway we met across a crowded room. You know that.
Speaker 2:saying Love at first sight.
Speaker 3:Yes, okay, we were in grade nine and he was on the other side of the gym. They used to do that when I went to high school.
Speaker 2:I think that still, even when I was, the guys would be on one side and the gals would be on the other. For sure, right? So, it hasn't changed over the decades.
Speaker 3:Okay, good. Well, I looked across the room and I saw him standing there and, I have to admit, yes, my heart did skip a beat and my friend said hey, don't get involved with him, he's a rebel and you'll have nothing but trouble. She was an old girlfriend, but she became my best friend and she was thinking of my best interest. The way I look at it now. And what I didn't know was he looked back at me and he was thinking the same things, but he was kind of a macho man, so he had to pretend that I didn't spark an interest in him for a long time actually. But anyway, our eyes connected and I thought, okay, well, I'll listen to my friend and I'll just put my eyes down, look someplace else, look around. And that's how, our first time we met, there was that little spark in there.
Speaker 4:Well, my, oh yeah, I noticed. I noticed this girl across the room and something went. Yeah, but I had, my buddies were around me and I couldn't, you know, I couldn't move. 13, 14. Sure, I couldn't admit that I had an interest in this girl. As a matter of fact, later, either that year or the next year, diana was a talker and she was sitting at the back of the row, second row to me, and I was in the front seat. I was the scholar, I was at the front seat learning, and Diana was talking at the back of the row and the teacher said Diana, come up here. So she ended up in the seat beside me. Oh nice. And I looked at her and I said so everybody could hear, what did I do to deserve this? And of course I got chuckles and that was the beginning of my habit of putting Diana down. And it just got worse as of course this went on. But I had been out.
Speaker 4:I skipped school one afternoon, about grade 11 maybe, with a bunch of fellows and we went out and had a bit of drinking going on in the boat. But there was a pep rally because the next day was a field day in the county, the district we call it here and so we skipped school and went to the pep rally and they had you mentioned the boys on one side and the girls on the other. You mentioned the boys on one side and the girls on the other. We used to do the girls on the inside a circle and the boys on the outside in a circle, and the one group would go one way and the other would go the other. Whenever the music stopped, you had to dance with the person opposite. So this went on and the music stopped. And who was standing in front of me? But Diana? Now there was another guy standing beside me. I think he was interested too, so I just kind of shoved him out of the way and grabbed hold of Diana and you can take it from there, dear.
Speaker 3:Well, yes, and it was two nice slow dances and I was just pitter-patter, pitter-patter. You know, In those days I was well protected from home, so I had to take the cab home at 10.30. Yeah, the pep rally started at 9, and I think I'm not sure what time it was, but they called an intermission. So we stopped and he stopped and he didn't leave and I thought why isn't he didn't leave and I thought why isn't he leaving to go and join his friends? But then he knew she has to leave at 10 30. He knew all these things about me that I didn't know. He knew. But anyway, that's.
Speaker 3:I guess that's the way it was for us. It isn't for everybody. Some people take long time to become friends. And um and I guess it was in grade 12 when he decided that he had to make this grand pronouncement that he was going to marry me and he loved me and, uh, most women would kind of go what? What are you talking about? But he made it kind of his life's purpose to do that and um became, he actually changed. Then he went, went from this business of finding jokes to say about me to not being able to do enough for me.
Speaker 2:So that early part was really really good so I mean, you're getting engaged at a young age, out of high, in high school. Out of high school, um, how did? How did your 20s, in the the vast of your beginning of your 20s, out of your teens into your 20s, how did that relationship, how did you guys continue to evolve as a couple and move forward?
Speaker 3:Well, he went to St Mary's to play hockey and my parents didn't really kind of like that idea. So I went to Ottawa for my nursing training. So I had to finish my nursing training and, yes, he'd asked me two or three times when I was in nursing training to marry him and I'd say, no, I can't, no, I have to get got to get my nursing training first and then perhaps after. So we didn't get married particularly young, we were 23 or so but it was always there. I just can't explain it to anybody. It was just always there that I really, really cared for him. I liked what he stood for. I didn't know about this drinking. Honestly, he hid it so well and I had lots of people in my family who drank a lot, sure, but I didn't notice. It was cultural, was Irish, it was French, like really hello.
Speaker 3:I think even to this.
Speaker 2:Even to this day, it still seems to be a cultural thing where it's a social thing where everyone's like maybe out, and most people are able to hide a drinking situation. I'm, I was just talking to somebody, uh, the other day, where I haven't had a you know a lick of drink, you know something to drink and like besides water and other non-alcoholic beverages in like 77 days and um, not because I have a drinking issue, but to make it more of a look, it's normal not to drink where people are like, oh, you know you, you're not drinking. It's like what do I do? You know so? But so that's as you were saying, diana you were talking about. You didn't know that he would. There was, there was a mask of a drinking situation.
Speaker 3:Oh yeah, no, I didn't see it at all. I didn't see it at all. All I saw was the good things he was doing and my dad French-Canadian Sure, poor French-Canadians that are listening to me, but anyway, my dad was always the jolly type person when he was drinking and he just loved John. He just loved him after he got to meet him and so forth, and so he could do no wrong. It didn't matter what he did or didn't do. But then I was not one of the ones to run home to mom and dad and tell them what was going on either after we got married. But it would be about two or three years into our marriage that this started. It wasn't bad. We could go to friends, we'd have parties, we'd yeah, you had a lot of fun. But it's when he wasn't coming home and all that set in. I didn't know. I didn't know what to do with it.
Speaker 2:really, I didn't just didn't know what to do john, what was going through your head during those times? When you look back and you reflect on that?
Speaker 4:Well, it's interesting, I turned 80 on November 10th and my defense partner from back in minor hockey I thought his birthday was December the 6th, so I don't know why that was burned in my mind, but I called him, I got a hold of him and we reminisced about the days we were playing minor hockey. Now, when I was 15, my nickname was Alky and I was talking to a guy, we were at a, a banquet for people who are still playing hockey at our age and, uh, I sat beside a fellow and I I was telling him this oh yeah, he says I remember that and that's a long time ago, that's 60, 65 years ago. But it points out the fact that at 15 my nickname was alky. That should have been a clue. Now other people called me that. They got in trouble because my buddies wouldn't put up with it, but they could call me that and it was okay. Sure, so you know.
Speaker 4:But when I was young and they played hockey all junior hockey when you're, your body can take the pounding, the abuse. Yeah, we spent I was talking to Rob there we spent three days a week in the summer when we all had little jobs, trying to figure out where we were going to get our next person, who was at 21, to get beer for us, get booze, and that was kind of a full part-time job on our part-time job in the summertime. So that's how we started out and I had at our wedding. By the way, I want to show you this you ever see two happier people than that.
Speaker 2:I mean, look at you guys, I love it.
Speaker 4:Now can you see what's above Diana's head there?
Speaker 2:The cross.
Speaker 4:Yes, and notice that it's above her head.
Speaker 2:Yeah, well, yeah, because you're heathen.
Speaker 4:Not mine. She was the angel, she was the believer, for sure. And that's if I wanted to sum it up, she's the reason, aside from God, that kept us together, because she had the faith and I didn't. And I'll talk more about that as we go along.
Speaker 2:It's interesting because, as you were talking just a few minutes ago about you know nicknames and things of that nature, like your, your core group of friends would call you alky, but you know anybody outside of that core group. They were like nope, you're not. No one's getting that that. That nickname's us, that's an us thing, not a you outside the art, the trusted circle. And, by the way, let's remind, for those who may be listening, of a younger age. We understand that in the states of what, in the state of uh in the united states, you got to be 21, so we're not condoning it, we're not condoning any underage drinking. He's just sharing his story in regards to things that had gone on back in those days and and I think that still plays true to to most younger generations, trying to be that macho, egotistical I mean, still be trying to be tough, trying to navigate that teenage awkwardness of trying to learn who you are as you continue to grow and evolve.
Speaker 2:And if I could tell younger Mario to this day, not that I was a big drinker not that I did any of that kind of stuff Just to be myself and continue just to like. It's weird, because most younger kids are like you know, they feel awkward and they're like ah, it's weird, I don't want to say anything. But it's almost weird because you don't say something. But to remind younger individuals, people just say hi to people, you strike up a conversation, continue to be. You, just say something when you're out there. Because I think most I think as we navigate as teenagers, looking back, um, I think that's when the alcohol kind of helps loosen that that inhibition of like, oh, I feel awkward, now I feel a little loose. Um, no, but I you sharing your story of that piece of you being a younger, young, younger young man, of drinking, playing hockey, uh, then getting married and not knowing it maybe you not knowing it was a situation and then you know, diana, you kind of like.
Speaker 2:You're like wait, what's really going on? What are we masking here?
Speaker 3:Well, it's interesting you say that because on our wedding day he turns to me. We're having all everybody's toasting, et cetera, and he said, okay, dear, I promise I'm going to quit drinking. And I thought to myself why is he saying that to me, right? Is he saying that to me? Because I'm not saying I was oblivious of kids drinking and that he'd had a little history, but I didn't know his moniker there the alky thing. I didn't know anything about that and I didn't get out much because my parents were very, very.
Speaker 2:Smart.
Speaker 3:Well, they sure kept me. I don't want to use the word cloistered, but Cloistered is a good word. But, I didn't know, I didn't know.
Speaker 2:You had a good family upbringing how?
Speaker 3:can you not know? But I didn't. I really, because it was all part of the culture that I was raised in and it didn't, you know, it just didn't seem to matter at that time. So when he told me this, I remember being very shocked and I thought, okay, well, I'll just remember he said that, but I don't know why he's saying that to me and nothing's going to be illusion, right?
Speaker 3:Remember we talked about the illusion Everything's going to be okay. We're just going to make no mistakes, like all those other people that got married did. We're not going to do that. We're just going to be ourselves, and you know well, of course, the illusion.
Speaker 2:It seems like even you know, coming from out of a marriage which was a long time ago and and being very cordial to my ex-wife, and, uh, you know our daughter's success, her success is our daughter's success and vice, and and I thought, how awesome is it that you two are out here to share your journey about what the good, bad and the ugly have been for you to, to give others an opportunity to say that they may be close to throwing in the towel, as most people would say, because there is real no. People say, oh, you know, there's a lot of guys, tough guys, who say, oh, I'm not going to counseling, I'm not doing that, or you know, you know, maybe they don't have a faith and and they're kind of and and that's okay too. Whatever you know, whatever floats your boat in how you navigate life, but there's got to be there's real no manual on how marriage, marriages all work and and yeah, and so as you can.
Speaker 2:You guys continue to share your story and your journey and, and you saying, well, I didn't know that this was a situation, or you saying, well, I didn't really understand that there was really a problem, until he may have sparked, that, ignited that little thing in the back of your head, you're like, okay. Well, why Now, john, did you feel like at that point in your life you're like, okay, I need to stop? At that point in your life you're like, okay, I need to stop. Or was it just like you knew that this was going to be a part of the continued evolution of this new marriage and this new thing?
Speaker 4:Well, my enjoyment came from playing golf, playing hockey, gambling, being with the boys, and when I first started out it was beer mainly. And then I moved, got a better job and I ran into people who were I was 24, they were 45. So they're families that had already grown up. And this guy opens up his trunk and it wasn't a case of beer, it was a case of liquor. And he had to keep it trunk because his family would gobble it up on him. So he got the trunk of his car. But I thought, boy, I've been dropped right into the promised land, just like I did the first time when I went to play hockey. I I got in a guy's car and he opened the trunk and there was a case of beer and the guy in the front seat had a cast on his hand. He was a fighter, so I had protection. And the other guy he knew all the girls in town that did and didn't and I was just dropped into this paradise and that was the beginning of a real go with it. Sure, go ahead.
Speaker 2:How long were you guys married before you started having kids?
Speaker 4:We were married 22, yeah, about two or three years. Okay, candy was born and of course that cramped my style, because now how am I going to do all the things I like doing and become accustomed to doing? Diana wouldn't be able to work because she's going to have this baby. So Diana presented me I think it was Valentine's Day with the good news and immediately I thought oh man, how am I going to change my whole MO here to get what I wanted? It's that little thing of selfishness. Selfishness is just a killer for a marriage, and it was a killer for ours. So that began what we call the Seven Years' War.
Speaker 2:So that began what we call the seven years war and describe that for someone who, maybe someone who hasn't been married for that long and may be close to that. What is that? Describe that for what you guys went through?
Speaker 3:I guess for me. I became really, really depressed. And the doctor didn't believe me that John had a drinking problem. The lawyer didn't believe me I had a drinking problem. He did. And friends, of course they didn't. Of course it was just all my fault or I wasn't thinking right. So I had no support at all. And I told you I wasn't the type to go home to mama and dada because my dad and mother both just loved this fellow. So I wasn't about to expose him and I guess I'd have to say for me, I fell into this huge depression and I had to decide if I wanted to live or not.
Speaker 3:And the reason for that is because I didn't know what to do. Sure, I had my spiritual life and I believed. I thought, well, I've been a good mom, I've been a good um daughter, I've been a good wife, I've been a good friend of all, mrs goody goody, you know, but I've been all those things. And why would god not take me out of this or move me forward or something? I didn't realize it. In his own way, he was working behind the scenes and what happened is my sister happened to phone me and said Diana, I think I know what's wrong with members of our family. I won't mention it Members of our family and I said, yes, do you have an idea?
Speaker 3:And she said, yes, I think alcohol is the big factor. And I said but what do we do? What do we do about it? I don't want to be a nagging wife, I want to be the perfect wife, right, sure? Anyway, she introduced me to a 12-step program for the families of alcoholics and I drove from Chesse to sudbury I don't know how far that is about 300 miles to go to a meeting.
Speaker 3:That's how desperate I was, because I wanted to save what we had. I wanted to save what we, we, started off with. I wanted it to come back and it wasn't coming back. And uh, anyway, for I went and that lady that gave the talk that night told my story. So I felt, oh boy, you know I'm, it's going to be okay. I don't know of any programs around, but I'll find one. But then, not everybody wants to go to that effort. They're tired, they're sick and tired of it all and they, they, just as you said, they throw in the towel. And why didn't I? Well, sometimes I don't know. I don't know your answer, why didn't I? But I just really love my husband and I just want things to go.
Speaker 2:If I was a good listener I would say that your faith, I think the reason why it didn't end is you know that there was a higher power working in your guys, you know, in your guys's favor, or working behind the scenes to continue to evolve. Uh, what, what, what has been a very, uh, a very interesting road for you guys of 57 years, as you said earlier and when we talk about these types of you know your selfishness, john, you having how many kids did you have? Do you have just the one?
Speaker 4:No, we have three, but that time we just had one. We'll get to that later in the conversation, I'm sure. But Diana had see, I was always manipulating, and it's alcoholics do. And she had a lawyer friend come and visit us and he suggested we, because I wasn't giving her any money, I was just a mess Because I had to look after my addiction and my gambling and my, my, my, my, my. So he suggested that we go to because Diana was finished and that's why she had the lawyer there to get the separation going. So he suggested marriage encounter or marriage counseling and I thought, well, gee, well, I better do it. I said I'll even get the counselor myself, you know anything to keep this thing afloat.
Speaker 4:Because I didn't want to separate, because I didn't think I could afford it and I was afraid, ashamed of my boss, who I had a lot of respect for, would think not, wouldn't think very highly of me if I pulled that one off. So I didn't get the marriage counselor, but Diane, of course. Good old Diana. She got the marriage and counselor and off we go was over 100 miles one way. I grumbled all the way and there was a doctor and his wife. They were both doctors. So Diana talked to the lady doctor and I talked to the man and I just laid it out. Diana's always on my case, I can't do anything, and she's blah, blah, blah. She was nagging. So anyway, I laid it all out there. It's the first time I'd really told anybody anything. So when we came back together they said well, mr and Mrs Norton, and they had conferred, we think you'd be best to separate. Well, I got my back up and I said listen, I didn't drive 200 miles to here, I should separate. I can do that myself at home, I don't need to come down here to have you tell me that. So I came here for some help, so let's get some help.
Speaker 4:So that kind of was the beginning. You see, there's a scripture that says while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us. And you mentioned there's things going on behind the scenes and there was a higher power. Well, the higher power is working through her and the other power is working through me. There was that conflict, hence the seven-year war.
Speaker 4:But we did learn some techniques which we help marriages with people with troubles. We take them through these steps. But one was communication and they gave us a big stop sign, a neat stop sign and that was the start. Put that on your fridge and every time you decide to get going, you, you, you, you, you stop and use the what they call a no blame method, where I feel upset. When you do, instead of blaming the person, you say what's happening with you, but you're getting the message across. So we got in the car and I said I feel upset that they told us to separate and we had a laugh about that. Sure, I used the I feel method. You see, I feel upset when they told us to separate and we laughed. That was the first time we'd laughed together in a long, long time.
Speaker 3:And we went home and made a stop sign. We were looking for it the other day because we carried it everywhere we've moved and we've moved a lot of places. But that's really. People are surprised when you tell them it's that simple. You just have to stop if you want to Like, you get a choice. You get a choice for everything you're doing out there or not doing. But John made a choice at that time and I did too, and then we went along for a while as the road goes up and down, up and down.
Speaker 3:Illusion, disillusion. It's, uh, not working the way I think it should not. And I talked to some friends at my church and this beautiful couple had gone to a program called marriage encounter. And I said what is marriage encounters? When the couples come together and they spend time talking, but you don't tell anybody else what you're saying, you just there's a presenter and that sort of thing, sure, anyway, I said. I said, gee, that sounds. Of course I was always trying to find something right, to make it better, and I thought, oh, I'll tell John about this, he'll be really excited.
Speaker 4:I was playing cards with her cousin and the subject came up because they had been to one and I thought oh gee, here we go. So I shut up and deal, you know, just get on with the game. And then, because of our communication buildup, we used to sit out in the back in May and talk, talk, talk, very superficial things, none of the deep, deep stuff. And our anniversary was coming up on August the 26th and Diana says, as women do I wouldn't want to say they manipulate, but you know this little that goes on. She says all I want for our anniversary is to go on this marriage encounter weekend. Well, I ran that through the computer here and it was only $10 to register and it wasn't until November.
Speaker 2:Right.
Speaker 4:So I thought $10, that takes care of the anniversary present. And it's not until November. That's a long way away. Sure, I'm sure there will be a blizzard or something in November. I won't have to worry about going anyway. So I'll just put that on the back burner.
Speaker 4:It was always manipulation, selfishness, me, me, me, yeah. But November came early that year. So I got oh gee, so we get in the car, we're going to Hamlin's two or three hours drive. And I started tonguing her all the way. I don't want to go to this, but this better be good. And you wrote me into this.
Speaker 4:And finally we stopped about an hour away and had supper and Diana said John reminds me of that commercial, john, it reminds me of that commercial, john. If you're going to keep on like this, you know we can turn around and go back home. Forget about it. So I ran that through the computer. Well, oh geez, if I don't go, I'm going to pay for this. So, okay, on we go. And we get there and it was big stone walls, you know, yeah, and a gate, an iron gate, and I thought, oh jesus, if they ever get me in there I'll, I'll never get out. Here was a guy parked his car right next to the exit, I said, no, there's somebody that's really thinking right, he's, he can's going to break loose. And so I had to go through and immediately started looking around the place for a TV to see if the hockey game would be on that night and tomorrow's the NFL. I got to watch the football games, but I couldn't find a TV anywhere, so I decided to. I'd have to put up with this.
Speaker 2:When you talk about these marriage encounters, I know that there are churches around the states, even one that I've attended, where they do a marriage encounter, they do a men's encounter. So for those who may be interested in looking for some type of help in that in those regards, uh, just look up, look for your local church and uh, they, some of them, will have these types of places. Uh, a church that I frequently have gone to, uh in in pualap, has a lot of this, um, these types of things called, uh, it's motion church. For those who are interested in like a marriage encounter, like you guys have, and not that John wanted to go, but now, was this through a church? Was your? Guys through a church.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 4:Yeah, the Catholic church.
Speaker 2:And very forward thinking for the Catholics, cause you know, a lot of modern Christian church like, like emotion, are doing these types of things now and they're like yearly, and sometimes I think some churches may do them twice a year. But I know that, um, for fellowship reasons, I know that they'll do like a men's encounter, a woman's encounter a marriage encounter and then I've, you know, I've done like couples retreats and things of that nature.
Speaker 2:It's just to me listening to your guys' story as you, you know, I mean, as we know that Diane is probably my favorite person, but, john, I think I've learned so much from you about like just listening to your humility of of saying, look, I was selfish, as you share your story with us. Um, it's humbling to listen to a man, another man out here, share his, his imperfections in life because, let's face it, society, regardless on where we are, in general guys have typically tough guy. Uh, men, don't cry. You know, I'll be the first to tell you. I have. You know. My daughter asked me the other day, yesterday she's like dad when was the last time you cried?
Speaker 2:and I told her it was like uh, it was last sat Saturday. I was listening to some music and made me think of my aunt, who recently just passed away at a very young age, and I told her I was like, she's like, and she hugged me and she was like, wow, that's so sad that you were by yourself and you were crying. I was like, I was grieving, you know, for our family member. Um, john, when did you realize in your encounter, were you like, did you, did you enjoy any of that? Or did you learn anything from that experience when you were going through that encounter, that couple's uh encounter?
Speaker 4:sorry, now we're getting to the good part good.
Speaker 2:This is all good, by the way, I think. Think, I mean, it's just interesting to listen.
Speaker 4:Well, through the weekend, very seldom did we have to share anything with the rest of the group. It was all between us, right? But the first night we'd like to, as a point of introduction, just tell who you are and say something nice about your spouse. So guess who gets to go first? Yours truly Nice Well. So I said Diane, she's just a wonderful person, a great wife, loving. She likes others. She does this and you can tell where you were at there.
Speaker 3:Well, I wondered who he was talking about, quite frankly, really, because he had never expressed these words for a long, long time. So I was not expecting all this positivity that he came up with and he just nobody else would ever do in his whole life, if you know. And I thought, oh shoot, what am I going to say? Because I don't feel that way. After just having had that stop sure at the restaurant and listen to him chew away, I thought I don't know what say. So I really don't remember a thing I said. He'll have to remember what I said. Just, you know, he was a teacher and he was clever. I mean, all the things that I do appreciate in him is all I could say. But as far as him, the person to be with me, the person, I couldn't. I'm not a hypocrite, I just can't and I just couldn't put it out there. I know some people can, but I can't.
Speaker 2:I won't say anything bad, sure, anything bad, but I just couldn't say, oh, he's just such a loving person for all I know it's interesting when you say that, because I think that in most relationships, when we talk about relationships being in one maybe you're not in one right now Keeping your circle tight in regards to the, the things that may you know, the, the imperfections of a person, or like someone saying, oh my gosh, mario, you snore at night.
Speaker 2:Or I don't like going, going to somebody like a friend, a best friend, and then confiding in them in regards to you know, john or Mario's imperfections, does I find those to be not great qualities, because then the best friend of you know, of our significant other, will start to have a little bit of a chip on the shoulder because they have been, have been, debriefed some, you know, maybe not some great things about us, and then it continues to, it spirals out. I mean in that all relation, and maybe this is another thing that I'm learning about you two as a couple that maybe you know, diana, you were protecting the relationship this entire time, to protect, you know, from people thinking that you're with a bad person, which John is not. Yeah, john, you're not a bad person. You just had some bad traits that needed to be worked through.
Speaker 4:Well, as I said, this is the best part, because, as the weekend progressed, diane and I had to write our, we were given questions and listened to presentations and I thought, boy, those people are really something. They're admitting this and they're admitting that, as a matter of fact, the first lady admitted being an alcoholic. I thought, oh gee, right, in front of all these people. So, anyway, this went on. We kept going back and forth, back and forth, various topics, and finally it's called the big one was an hour and a half and we had a list of questions to go through, and so Diana was in the main lounge and I was in our cabin and I was to read and answer these questions and she was doing the same there. Anyway, I was reading, started reading these questions and questions like who's keeping your, your family apart? Who's keeping your family from god? Who's not looking after the responsibilities, and I'm reading this stuff and I've been softened up because it was a spiritual experience weekend and, uh, I had heard the parable, the sower was a big one for me, and anyway, I was reading these things and finally I realized that it was me that was the problem and it was the fact I wasn't following God's plan for marriage, which was unity, and I just had an overwhelming sense of guilt and shame. So I got down on my knees at the side of the bed and I used to make a joke in the hockey dressing room Guys, well, he's at church. I don't go to church, church, I just get a loaf of bread and a bottle of wine and watch rex humbard on tv. Laugh, laugh, laugh. Right, but you know, I did that and I remember listening to them, so I knew what to say and I knew what they wanted. And I got on my knees and I said I'm sorry for keeping you out of my life for so long. I'm sorry, forgive me and come into my life and do with me whatever you want.
Speaker 4:Well, I actually felt the garbage leave me. I felt the swearing leave me. I felt the lying leave me. I felt the swearing leave me. I felt the lying leave me. I was a liar, as you can gather from what I've been saying, a gambler. I felt all that stuff leave me. And it was like I had the St Paul experience. For those who don't know, he was on the road to Damascus to kill Christians and Christ appeared to him, knocked him off his horse. Now I wasn't on a horse, but I had that overwhelming sense of release and I got up and I looked out the window and I could actually see inside trees. I could like the cells. Even the rocks looked like they were alive. And a squirrel came down in the tree and it was in the middle of November and I thought this is unusual. But everything was just. You never remember those viewfinders you used to look through. Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 4:And it was three-dimensional, it was just like it was alive. Well, that's how everything looked out that window and I got to tell somebody about this. I don't know what it is, but something's going on here, and the answer I got in my mind was sit down and finish answering the questions. So I did, and it wasn't. When the time was up, diana was to come and meet me and we would exchange our books and read what we have written. So Diana comes to the door and you can take it from there.
Speaker 3:I didn't know what was going on with him and what he was writing, but I was agreeing with him who's keeping the family from God and who's this, and that it's not really a blame game. But if that's who it is, you can't pretend it isn't. And so I would answer, but I'd say, but maybe things will be better. I'd always conclude my answer with maybe things will get better. I'd always conclude my answer with maybe things will get better. Maybe, god, you know what's in store, maybe you'll make it better.
Speaker 3:So when I walked into the room, I remember saying to John there was like a huge aura around him. For people who don't know what an aura is, it's kind of a bursting of sunlight that comes all over him from head to toe. And I'm looking at him. I think what happened here? What happened here? And I walked into the room a little bit further and I was quite astonished as to what I said. Well, tell me what's going on, because I again, I was, I wasn't confused, I was just taken aback by what I saw in him. Yeah, and so when he said, well, here's my papers, and he handed them to me and I began to read them, well, of course I began to weep, and I'm not a crybaby. Some people can cry at the drop of a hat, I don't. In my profession I learned you can't, so I I think since I was little I learned I cannot cry. But I really was brought to tears when I saw that and I went oh my goodness, there's hope for us after all. There's hope for us after all. I couldn't, yeah.
Speaker 3:So then John explained a little bit further and we left, you know, kind of singing and happy, and I know it doesn't happen to other couples that take these weekends, I know that. But you're still changed because you had a chance to look inside yourself and look inside your spouse with a different set of eyes. And I was so hoping for this change. But coming to the end of my little line, it wasn't going to change. But you know he wanted to go to church, he wanted to take our daughter to church. She was about 10 or 11 at that point and I had always hid his drinking episodes and everything from her. So she may have noticed it along the way, but I just never let on. I wasn't into that. I know people do that one to the other spouse, but I can tell you right now don't do it, because it's not the children's fault that we can't get along.
Speaker 2:It is 100%, and I believe this to be for those who may be divorced. It is something that is not great for the kids. It just doesn't boast well for your kids. I mean, speaking of someone who has spent more time divorced than I was married, I will say this Put your kids first. Put your kids first, always put your kids first, and it will pay dividends. Period. End of discussion.
Speaker 2:You may not love or be friends with your ex-spouse or whoever that might be. Maybe it's a relationship that did not work out, but look at the end of the day, there was a point in time when you two came together to be, to be lovers and to have these children. Um, and that's the the common ground that you both have. You both love your children, and I know that to be the case, uh, and and so, as I, I can share from my own personal experiences love your kids, it will pay dividends. And, and here we are, at 16 years old, I love her dearly. I mean she, you know she, she, she definitely is. She keeps me, she keeps me in line.
Speaker 2:I was like man, this girl runs the house more than I run the house. But it is so true, I mean you. You don't. You don't want to talk bad about the parent because they unconditionally love us, right? And that is a great thing, that you were able to foresee that and to be able to project it and to share that now, with your experience over the years and I can attest as a younger you know someone younger to say that, yeah, I've been divorced for such a long time but I would never talk bad about my ex-wife. It's not good for the kids. No, they love us. Your kids love both their parents unconditionally. I'm glad you said that and brought that up.
Speaker 2:Thank you yeah we can divorce the spouse, but we can't divorce the children. That is so true. And so you leave the couple's retreat, the couple's encounter, and mind you, you guys guys are just. You guys are on like cloud seven. Right, you guys are on a cloud nine. You guys are, you know, excited about the journey in life. How do you guys continue through? And and where do things jump back? We're okay, so it's surf. Let's let's just call this surface level like like, fix it, john and Diana. Like okay, so you went to the marriage counseling and maybe in your mind you're like okay, we got this, we got this now, but did?
Speaker 4:you really. Oh well, yeah, we were off into illusion again.
Speaker 2:Illusion yeah.
Speaker 4:Yeah, back to the basic law of life. So everything is going to be. I just loved everybody. I had to see, we believe as Christians that we're three-dimensional beings. We're physical, we have a soul and we have a spirit. Right, and when you do that, make that move people you know, you've seen them on TV just say Jesus, come into my heart. Well, that is true, that's what I learned from Rex Hembard and that's what I did and that's what happened. And so I had this I had. Now I had there's a throne inside, we call it the heart, and John had been on the throne for years. Well, when I made that commitment, jesus been on the throne for years. Well, when I made that commitment, jesus was on the throne. And as long as he's on the throne and I'm listening to him, and now it's second nature, but anyway, I just loved everybody. Oh, it's just, it was just such a thing.
Speaker 4:And I had to tell everybody. And I was blabbing all over the place and oh, oh, I've got to write a book about this, I've got to write a book about this and tell everybody. And I was going to call it oh, my God. And so I'm telling Diana and she said, well, you can't really tell that story without me being involved, right? So that evolved into and the two shall become as one, because that's what happened. And off we went, wrote the book, got a one to talk, we were talking this and that and the other.
Speaker 3:We became a couple for Marriage Encounter.
Speaker 4:Yeah, we became a couple with Marriage Encounter and spent three or four years doing that, and so as long as Jesus was on the throne, that was working fine. But I still hadn't dealt with the alcohol thing yet Until one morning. Well, I'd been up all night drinking and gone to bed about 7 in the morning and kept Diana up until 4, dancing to country and western music, which I didn't even like, until when I woke up I was out on the floor listening to Freddy Fender. Anyway, I went to bed at 9 o'clock about there I just sat up, bolt right up in bed. I didn't hear an audible voice but, as I said, the spirit is in us and he talks to us. We're supposed to listen, like those dressage horses. You never see any action, but there's slight movements of the knees and a little twitch of the reins and the horse responds. That's how we're supposed to act as Christians if Jesus is on the throne. Anyway, I heard this voice, john, I didn't hear a voice. A thought in my mind how do you expect we're in the middle of writing a book at that? How am I expecting to do the things, things you want to do, and you've got this problem. You're an alcoholic and oh uh, and he, satan's going to use that against you.
Speaker 4:So I woke diana up diana, guess what, I'm an alcoholic. And she looked at me you know that look is about time and I said who's that guy in aa that you used to hang around with his wife? So she gave me his name. I called him up, said guess what, I'm an alcoholic. When's your next meeting? He said well, tomorrow morning. I said I'll be there. He said you want me to pick up? No, no, no, I'll be there. I called my sister, maryland, in toronto, who had trouble with alcohol. I said guess what, maryland, I'm an alcoholic and that's your problem too. I'm going to a meeting tomorrow morning. Why don't you come up and we'll go? I will. She said oh. So then I called my brother-in-law. I said guess what, I'm an alcoholic and that's your problem too. He wasn't near as happy about his journey.
Speaker 2:Most people who are alcoholics don't want to be told that they are alcoholics.
Speaker 4:Oh, I went through that. How many years. So, anyway, I went and they put you right at the corner so you can hear how you do this thing. You see what you're talking and I'm sitting there just bouncing in my chair. I can't wait to tell them that I met Jesus a couple years ago and this morning I got the word and here I am and I'm just going on. And then they looked at me. Where did that guy come from?
Speaker 4:Yeah, so that was back into the illusion or the uh, yeah, the illusion. And uh, five years sober. And I say sober. No, I was dry. Yeah, I had a dry, what's called a dry drunk, and I started putting john back in.
Speaker 4:I was watching my who was about two and a half at the time and he was a little hellion and I'm looking at him and he was throwing temper tantrums, slamming doors, and I looked that's what I'm doing, I'm acting like that. So I knew something was wrong. And, long story short, I went into a 28-day program for alcoholics and I heard a whole lot of stuff that I needed to hear. One was if you started drinking at 13, you're probably eight. You regress, your emotional development stops right there and and not only that, but it regresses, and that's what was happening to me. So I'm off again. Another illusion.
Speaker 4:Now I got another message. I got this all figured out now, and three years later we separated. So here we have written a book on how to guaranteed way it says right here, guaranteed to solve your marriage problems. And we're separated Well back into the disillusion. And this was. I had a. I'd stop at a gas station. Somebody come up and say, knew who I was? Oh, you wrote that book. And I said, yeah, a gas station. Somebody would come up and say, knew who I was? Oh, you wrote that book. And I said, yeah, I did. And can I have one? Well, I just happen to have some in the trunk, so I'd write in their book. Don't let my present circumstances belie the truth that lies in this book. And it was through the book that we had to get back.
Speaker 4:and because the truth was there yeah I had put picked jesus off the throne and I sat back down.
Speaker 4:It's like that joke about yeah the, the cats you know, before god, and and I don't need to go into all that but the cat says to God you're sitting on my chair and this is what happened. I went back to being the selfish John and I didn't like it. So we were separated for five years Wow, and neither one of us had anybody else, didn't want anybody else, yeah, but Diana couldn't. And she had a dream that's another book we've written about miracles and dreams and she had this dream that she didn't have to live this way. And we decided to part, which we did for five years, and when you guys were apart for five years.
Speaker 2:How many kids did you have at that point in time?
Speaker 3:We had three children Right after the marriage encounter. After about a year, I had two kids in a row, two little boys and our daughter would be 12 or turning 12. So it was an interesting time. I was a lot older. I used to say I had two kids in a carriage and it was another responsibility.
Speaker 3:It was hard for John to be responsible to children. He was a teacher. He did great things in his classroom. It was hard for him to apply it at home and I understood that and I used that slogan often. I let John be John, just let me be me. Yeah, and then we're okay. If I don't let him be him, then I'm trying to change him, right, right, and you can't change anybody but yourself, yeah, and so for me, I guess I had to learn to be. This is the way I am, this is what I do, I'm an extrovert, I love doing this, I love doing that, and somewhere along the way he had to accept that happening.
Speaker 3:Now, when I actually got very ill and I thought I was going to die, so the short version, and a friend introduced me to the homeopath, I guess, and she worked with me. For she started working with me in about March, and that's when I thought I was not going to make it. And in May, again I had this dream. I was sitting on my rocking chair, I had the two boys that were upstairs sleeping my daughter was and I said, lord, I don't know what to do. I don't. Well, I won't need a house if I don't live so he can have all this. It doesn't mean anything to me. What I wanted was the relationship that we had once and it's gone Again, it's left and um. And then what I felt I heard in my spirit was called john, and I thought it's 10 o'clock at night. What I'm gonna call john, yes, I said, okay, what will I say? And it was. I will teach you and tell you what to say. So so I phoned him it's 10 o'clock at night, and he said hello, who is this? This is not Diana. And I said, yes, it is John. I've decided you can come back home and I've got 20 things written on a piece of paper that you need to follow and you have to give me your answer by Friday. And he said Dianaiana, is this really you? Is this a joke? I went, no, no, but I didn't tell him I was ill, I didn't want to, I didn't want that to be part of his reason and so, um, and I guess I could tell that part too. He shows up thursday, which would john right, I gotta be the boss, I gotta do it my way. He showed up Thursday evening. The kids were all in bed and my cat.
Speaker 3:I had a beautiful cat. Her name was Secret and she had nothing to do with John the whole five years we got her when she was itty-bitty and he came in the house and was at the door, just like when he dropped the kids off from time to time. She never went near him. This night she ran right over to him and went over on her back. A sign of submission for cats, right, right. And he picked her up and she purred and purred and purred. I thought, oh you, they call her. Anyway, she was a traitor.
Speaker 3:Yeah, she was a traitor. Anyway, was a traitor.
Speaker 3:Anyway, john said well, um, I'll tell you what I don't think I can do. All this I really don't. But most of it was about take the kids to church, you know, to hockey. Help do the grass, help help around the house, do the dishes, you know. That sort of thing. Uh, be with the children.
Speaker 3:It wasn't anything. I didn't ask for anything and I don't have my halo on, no, no, I just didn't. I wanted it for our life and I wasn't going to be here, right the way the prognosis was I wasn't going to be there. So what happened was he hugged her and hugged her, and cat wouldn't let him go. I just thought. And then I thought well, that's what you wanted, you wanted this. So the next day, uh, we decided john would come home the first of july it was somewhere in june, but just before my birthday and we went to the restaurant for my birthday. The two children and my daughter was away in college by then university and I said we're sitting at the table and John said well, we have some news for you boys, and the youngest one, jolie, says oh, you guys are getting back together. Oh, that's great, mom and Dad, like we never said a word Sure, but he was very intuitive, very intuitive and most kids.
Speaker 2:Most kids are they, they are very yeah they, they know what's going on, they they vastly know what's going on yeah.
Speaker 3:So he came back home and, uh, I kept taking my supplements or whatever she it's a chinese yeah program and I just took it faithfully and I started to get better and all the symptoms that I had like all the physical symptoms you can think of shut down. I started to get better. So it was Christmas time and John said well, you look like you're better. And I hadn't told him up to that point that I had been sick Again. I didn't want that to be a reason for him to come home. And he said I said well, you're here, you might as well stay I'm still protecting myself because I'd been hurt before and we just somehow went on in our life again. We had gone through the disillusion and now the joy was back and away. We went again for another period of time.
Speaker 4:Yeah, it's very cyclical.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 4:We live in Muskoka, so we have the four seasons, and so you have the nice illusion of spring and summer, and then winter hits. There's the disillusion, but the joy comes in the spring, when everything gets green again.
Speaker 4:Renews the renewal of life in the spring, when everything gets green again and renews the renewal of life. Yeah, like jesus used the the example of a, a kernel of wheat. It it falls to the ground and it goes into the ground and then it dies and it rots. But from that that period of time up comes the new and it's hundredfold, there's more than one kernel. This is so basic. This is why it's called the basic law of life. And we went through the three cycles and we had another whack when our son committed suicide and he hung himself. And our son committed suicide and he hung himself and that was 19,. Well, that was five, six years ago. In August next year, 25. And you alluded to in your introduction that, yeah, if we hadn't, if we didn't have the relationship and Diana likes to use the expression that Diana, she often says people call her Diane she said no, diana, like the princess and Princess Diana was interviewed on TV and that blew up the whole network.
Speaker 4:When she was asked what the problem was, she said well, there's three people in this marriage. It's a bit crowded, yeah, I remember that. And the third person was Camilla, and we believe there should be three people in the marriage too. But the third person is Jesus, the Holy Spirit. Yeah, that's what saved our marriage and that's what keeps us going. And, of course, I give all the credit to Diana, because it's her when I look back in my life. And why her? Why did I see her across the crowd? Why did she end up in front of me in a Paul Jones dance? Why did she get to be Miss Muskoka? And then I had to make my move. So I walked up to her locker and told her I loved her and walked away. I had to make my move and I did, and it just kept going. But it never. We're still going, and it was that spiritual power that changed when I got on my knees that day. Even though I picked Jesus off the throne and jumped on myself, he's still.
Speaker 2:He was always there for you.
Speaker 4:Oh, he says I'll never leave you or forsake you. Fear not All this garbage that's going on in the world today. I don't give a hoot about that. I know, uh, I know what's going on because I read.
Speaker 2:I read the word, and the word spells it all out for those who, uh, may uh, in your guys's case, I want to bring this to to the attention. If you have thoughts or have had any uh issues in regards to negative thoughts of suicide, there is a suicide prevention hotline. You can text or call uh 988 here in the states. Um, uh, it is tragic because I know that even for men's health, um, men's mental health is a big thing that doesn't get discussed here in the States and I know that there is now a men's mental awareness, you know, and for those who may have that macho mentality, look, we want to bring it to the forefront to make sure that we share the information, the knowledge that is available to those who may need it. Maybe you don't, uh, I grew up, uh, in the uh early 90s, uh, 80s and 90s and, um, people make fun of me because I don't know, I don't take over the counter medicine unless I'm like really bad um, and sometimes people are too tough and too proud. But, um, um, if, if you, if in in your guys's case, if, if, or anybody who may have a suicide thoughts, there is a prevention hotline that you were able to text. It's free, it's 988.
Speaker 2:Uh, if you need that, uh, again our guest, uh, john and Diana. Uh, it's that tragic piece in your guys' life as I said earlier and you were just mentioning, john, that if you guys weren't together you don't think you would be back together and your guys' journey through what has been the ups and downs, the ebbs and flows, the illusion, the disillusion, the stop sign. Something that I think I will take away from spending this time with you guys is just be open minded, not to quickly judge to understand others. Judge, uh, to understand others. Someone who has friends that are still married, married try to be and always be a good listener. Always advocate marriage. I don't, I don't, I am not one who is going to promote divorce. I don't want to be someone's homewrecker in regards, in regards to and when I say homewrecker.
Speaker 2:I'm more of the like to dissolve a marriage. I'm I'm going to be someone's homewrecker in regards to and when I say homewrecker, I'm more of the like to dissolve a marriage. I'm going to be one to continue to promote the marriage seek counseling. This, I would have to say, is probably one of the most intriguing interviews I've ever done in the four years that I've done this radio podcast. I just it is so neat to listen to your guys's story. That's not perfect, but it's perfect in so many different ways on how, the love that you can see.
Speaker 2:If you're not watching, you can go to the on air Mariocom to watch the show or the watch the, the video of this show, to see the love that you guys have for each other, the rock that you are, diana, to keep this young buck in shape, to keep him the macho, to protect what is your guys' special little thing from that one night. It shows you can see right here that YouTube and even listening to you guys share your story how much love, how much courtesy you guys have for each other, the ups and downs, the ugly, the good, the bad, the ugly Having those abilities to share that with somebody else, to put pen to paper in books that you guys have. I'd love for you guys to share that. We'll definitely post those links. I will post those links in the podcast so that if people are interested in downloading or buying, purchasing your books that are available I'm assuming somewhere right Besides the back of your vehicle, right, john?
Speaker 4:I mean, yeah, yeah, the one we're just uh, this, uh, this is the original, uh, the original hardcover book that we wrote many years ago. Okay, and the two shall become as one. We're just in the process of having it put on Amazon in three forms paperback, audio and what's the one you read, audible.
Speaker 3:E-book E-book yeah, I'm not very techy.
Speaker 4:We didn't get to the experiences that we've had with miracles. But there's this book, mir book, dreams and Everyday Miracles. A lot of we've had. Aside from the miracles we've talked about today, we've had others of healings and other people's stories Some of my. We've had miracles. We believe very much in miracles and dreams. Diana is a dreamer. Every time she says I had a dream. The first thing I ask her is Was it in color?
Speaker 3:If it's in color, it comes true, oh, yeah, it comes true.
Speaker 4:Oh, it's interesting, true and uh, oh, it's uh interesting. You're, you have a paranormal aspect to your podcast, I believe. Yeah and uh, some people call it paranormal, I call it supernatural. Yeah and uh, we have all kinds of evidences of big and little things that uh, well, this, this, this us being here is, is as a result of a dream, and it's here we are.
Speaker 2:Well, I mean, and to listen to you both, it's just it, just it warms my heart.
Speaker 2:I hope that and I I joke all the time I'm like I'm never going to find somebody, but somebody, but it's I, I think.
Speaker 2:I think, um, listening to you two, both, um, to continue to, I'm not searching, but you know I continue to path and whatever that might be, eventually the things will align correctly um, someone who has faith and and and and spiritual, uh, for myself, you know I don't judge others and whatever someone else does on, does in their lane, is their lane. I just stick to my lane, drive down the road of life and try to do good for others if I can. And I think the one thing that I've learned today is that nothing's perfect, that nothing's perfect, and I think that in life, having some type of checks and balances you're going to learn from, and listening, stop, listen and remember that. Something that I think I've learned here is get into the dirt, start digging past that surface level. Like John was saying, a lot of stuff, you think you kind of mask and fix. You know the illusion, as you were saying earlier, of like oh yeah, okay, we did the. You know, maybe a couple's out there listening.
Speaker 2:Okay, yeah, we did the couple's retreat, or you know, yeah, and we did the counseling and everything's great, but really, did you really dig down deep? Did you get into the weeds? Did you pull out those weeds so they don't come back? I'm not saying everything's perfect, but go ahead, john.
Speaker 4:No, that's, you've got to get into the weeds and get into the mud, and we didn't get into a lot of the mud. But that was another dream that came true and actually rattled my chains and led to a confrontation not a confrontation, a resolution of my infidelity, and that was quite a part. We just started to write the book and I quit my job and she got this dream and I knew I had to come clean and I did.
Speaker 2:Isn't it interesting, Diana, that I think something that I've learned about people who. I think something that I've learned about people who, when infidelity plays into a relationship, you hear about it and people are like, oh, I think, in general, when people, oh, I was cheated on and they're like something's wrong with me, Something's wrong with me, let's remember, ladies and gentlemen and people who are listening and maybe watching, it's not you, it's the other person. It's like John was still not healed, fixed and he still hadn't got through those weeds to figure out you know the eye.
Speaker 3:As a woman for me.
Speaker 3:To me it's the greatest betrayal for me. Now, maybe other people don't think that way, but for me it was the greatest betrayal. Maybe it's because I had those. You know, I said to you earlier I was a good wife, a good mother, a good daughter, and how could you do this to me? But I've come to learn, um, as I learned to forgive. That was the big issue. You have to forgive, are you? We won't be here, we wouldn't be here today if I didn't. And again, that doesn't make me perfect or my halo really shiny, but it it does say I got a choice. I got a choice to move forward. Now, if this keeps happening time and time and time again, okay, now you've got an issue. And again, I'm not judging, like you said, but it's the greatest betrayal.
Speaker 3:The worst that ever happened to me in my life was when my son took his own life Because there's a lot of people out there fighting to live. Yeah, and he was just a very awesome. Well, all my children are awesome, they all have something really special about them, but that, to me, was the worst thing that could have happened. And you brought up that if we weren't together. Well, it would be in August. If I can just permit me, it was in August when I began seeing John and I on a train track. Again, we're there, we're doing things, but there's something missing and I don't know what it is. And I began to pray in August of the year before he died, so it would be 2018. And I began to pray and say, please, change God, can you change this? Can you bring it back? Because we had such a great love two, three times in our life. Remember the illusion, disillusion, kept happening. Bring it back, please bring it back. It's really important. And it would be in December of that same year.
Speaker 3:John started doing things that showed me he was back. He was back in the picture, doing things like even saying well, I'm having a cup of tea, would you like one or would you like something else? Or how about cheese and crackers? And I'm going oh yeah, I'm having a cup of tea, would you like one or would you like something else? Or how about cheese and crackers? And I'm going, oh, yeah, okay, or I'll make supper tonight, what? Because he doesn't like to cook, so that leaves me. I'm the cook. So when the cook goes down, we're in trouble. But here he's saying all these things and I didn't question it. I just kept saying thank you God, thank you God, thank you God.
Speaker 3:And so when May came around and the loss of Joel hit us, we were in perfect union at that particular time, and I know a lot of friends. They break up or they blame the husband, blame the wife. You should have done this, you could have done that. Well, yes, and a lot of things, but I didn't. I blamed myself, I said my fault, this boy did this. It's my fault. But that's what moms do.
Speaker 3:I think I don't know about men, because I'm not a man, but moms say there's something more I could have done. I should have seen it. And yet I had. I'd had the dream. I had the dream two nights before, but I thought it was my mother who was very ill, that that's what was happening. I knew something was going to happen. I couldn't see. I couldn't see just a cloud, and so I thought, oh, it's my mom. You know, she's on oxygen, she's not going to make it. And he came to visit us. I never, ever, thought for a minute. So, as you can imagine, it was a terrible, terrible surprise.
Speaker 3:But again, I just say, if there's any mother out there. It isn't your fault. Just as you said, mario, people make these choices and he made a choice that certainly wasn't our choice and we can't bring him back. But I know from my own experience, just as a mom you as a mom you have to take time to grieve. Just as I grieved the loss of my marriage when John and I broke up, I I grieve the loss of this little boy and he's just little to me. Of course he's 35, but he was little to me and you have to heal in your own time.
Speaker 3:Don't let anybody tell you well, you should be able to move on by now. No, no, no, don't even listen to them. Cross them off your Christmas list like, no, no, you don't want those people. You need someone who will listen to you if you have to listen or tell them. And it's hard to talk, and I would say it took me I was in my fourth year of his loss before I could use his name, because I told you I'm not a crier, but I couldn't use his name and I'd feel the teardrops coming. So I switched the subject or say my younger son or you know that sort of thing.
Speaker 3:So your life has been changed forever with a death, no matter whose it is, but when it's your baby, there's no way that you need to. You can choose to, but there's no way that you need to. You can choose to, but there's no way you need to keep blaming yourself, because the past is the past. Whatever you didn't do as a mom or dad, you didn't do, and it's over. But we have to believe that we will be restored and help someone else. People come to me all the time. Well, I couldn't have talked to them four years ago? I couldn't have, so I'm glad they didn't show up. It's just the last year and a half. How do you handle it, diana? How do you do this? Why are you still doing things? Why are you going out and helping other people? But you get restored by helping other people. But you get restored by helping other people, and we got restored by helping other couples. We're not counselors. We don't have a PhD in anything for counseling.
Speaker 2:In life we just love.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I have a PhD in love and life, thank you.
Speaker 2:You know, listening to you share about this tragic loss of your son, it's heartbreaking because, as a parent I think we all are like, even to this day, it's like I am more aware of what goes on with my daughter and making sure that I mean there's so many different ways and this, like we want to protect. All of us want to protect our kids. Again, I mean that's our nature as parents. We want to protect. I mean that's what we're here to do. We're like we.
Speaker 2:You know no one's going to hurt our babies and in your tragic loss, you sharing your story about this will help others in their grieving processes. For them to know that what you've shared today isn't easy. It's not. It gives them a little bit of hope and it gives them an avenue to say it's okay to heal in your time, not when some professional tells say it's okay to heal in your time, not when some professional tells you it's okay it. Thank you for sharing that, that you're able to say no when you're ready, when I'm ready, as you said I. Then I was able to to share that and you would. You wouldn't be here today if you weren't here to share that. And to be able to share. That is tremendous, because think of everyone you're helping, the people you've touched already, but the more people that you're able to touch with your words and being able to be human and to say look, I mean life's not perfect, but, man, this loss, I'm going to honor my son. I'm going to I'm going to honor my son, I'm going to do things to make aware of such a tragic situation again.
Speaker 2:Uh, if you're someone who is needing of help and have had suicidal thoughts, uh, here in the states, you can call or text 988 for the suicide uh crisis hotline. Uh again, john and diana, what an honor to have you guys come to hang out with us before you do you? Crisis hotline Again, john and Diana, what an honor to have you guys come to hang out with us. Do you have you guys? Before we leave for this, before we leave today, is there anything you guys would like to finish wrapping up or just kind of summarize before we head out?
Speaker 4:Well, I don't know your audience and it doesn't matter. The truth is still the truth. And Jesus said I am the way, I am the truth, I am the light. No one comes to the Father, but through me I am the light. No one comes to the Father but through me. That's what changed my life all those years ago at Marriage Encounter, when I made that decision and it stuck.
Speaker 4:The parable of the sower is the sower went out and sowed some seeds. Some grew up vast and the sun scorched them. Some landed on the path and the birds came up and eat it. But some fell in good soil and it grew to produce 30, 50, 100-fold. And when we came out of the marriage encounter weekend we stopped at a stoplight. I'll never forget it.
Speaker 4:It was Clappison's Corners, just north of Hamilton, and I looked at Diana with lightless red. I said I hope I'm the good dirt that that I will produce a hundredfold and that led us on the trail. And it's you know. I said I kicked him off the the throne but he got back on. I smartened up and every time I smartened up he got back on. And he's not a percif, he's a gentleman and he loves us all and I encourage everyone to take a look at that cross of the life and I'm not talking about religion, I'm talking about a relationship with what I call my Savior, and it has an eternal aspect to it that's probably more important than anything we've talked about today, and just investigate that.
Speaker 2:It's so good that you say that as we get close to Christmas here in the States.
Speaker 4:Yes ma'am.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean, as this show airs right now on the radio, we are just a couple days away from wrapping up. Well, christmas will be here, and so the show runs on the weekend.
Speaker 2:So, as we get ready to celebrate christmas and spend time with family and and remember, I know that the hustle and bustle, it's in the middle of the week, for for most of us, well it is, it's in the middle of the week, but to be able to take to take time to, to slow down, to have that family time with you know our, our family, and I know there's last minute gifts that need to get be bought and last minute needs at the grocery store, the, the, as everyone makes fun of me for saying I'm a Costco shopper and you know, yeah you know, everyone, uh, uh, it's, you know, as, as you endure going to these different types of things, slow down, put on, put things slow down, put on, put on, slow down.
Speaker 2:Enjoy life a little bit, because once we leave this physical plane, you know and things you know. However, you, you know, if it's internal life, it's, if it's, you know, if, for those who may not believe, you know and they think that this is it, then that's it. You only got one life to live. I'm not talking the soap opera, but we're talking for those who believe that this is it that you, you know. For those that are maybe atheists and don't believe in certain things, and enjoy life, you know, be kind to others during this holiday season. Maybe someone's going through something that may be tumultuous, Maybe're in a in a bad relationship, maybe they had a bad day at work. Just smile, it goes a long way, it really does.
Speaker 2:Again, our guest, uh, john and diana, it's. It's been an honor to have you guys come to hang out with us as we vastly approach the christmas time. What a great um to be able to spend this time with you guys, to share your spiritual uh relationship on how you got to where you're at, uh, this journey in life. Uh, thank you so much for sharing your story. I think it's something that I will uh take with me forever.
Speaker 2:Um, you can't, you can't, you can't put a price on that kind of you know, to be able to have a conversation like this with somebody. Uh, people pay thousands of dollars to sit in a counseling session and they may not be able to be able to afford it, but I will say, listening to you guys this evening, uh has been a new awakening for me, a new just. I feel just great. Even though I may not be with somebody, I just feel that much more spiritually touched. So I appreciate and I thank you for that. I mean that to me, that thank you for sharing that with me. It's it's it's been uh very different, because I definitely don't always share a lot on the show, but it's definitely spiritually uh thank you for touching me that way.
Speaker 2:So thank you very much for your guys's time this evening, and I and I will say this I this has to be one of the longest interviews I've ever done, so I this is which has been just great on how this is all. It just been so fantastic to be able to share this time with you guys and thank you so much thank you.
Speaker 4:Well, thank you for having your son, and you are a great, great host.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's very comfortable being with you well, I appreciate that you hear that everyone. I'm a great host so thank you for that. What a great gift.
Speaker 2:Um, again, uh, for, for john and diana, thank you so much for coming to hang out with us this evening. Um, as we wrap things up here in the Pacific Northwest, I'd like to thank all of our listeners again, happy holidays, merry Christmas to you. We, as we get close to which will be the next show, which will be our prediction show not that we just predict things, I don't know that we ever go back and review them but it's always fun to do that. So, uh, happy holidays, merry christmas to you. Uh, and then, for those who celebrate hanukkah, happy hanukkah, as that approaches us as well, right around the corner, right after christmas. Again, from the pacific northwest, I'd like to thank our guests. Uh, john and diana, thank you for coming to hang out with us. Um, for my entire team, mark christopher, jeff jens and sofia magana and myself, mario magana, be sure to look up at the sky, because you never know what you might see good night, good night.
